From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jul 30 12:33:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA18609 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:33:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04379; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:45:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA26594 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:43:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26570 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:42:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00436 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:42:58 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp189-134.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.134]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA15253 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:42:55 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199907301742.TAA15253@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Do you have "The medieval horse and its equipment"? Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:29:36 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Dave wrote: > They are constantly referred to in the shoeing section and illustrated. > there is also a photo of part of a shoe with two nails;Other than in that > context they are not greatly covered. Right. He does not mention that there are 3 types of horseshoe nails illustrated (fiddle-key (early), 'with expanded ears' (mid) and 'with rectangular heads' (late medieval)). The second are in a photograph of a horseshoe from around 1300. Furthermore, nails with trapezoid heads, as I've seen them until recently (I don't see horseshoes often ;-)), are already known since Norman times and have, obviously, lasted. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jul 30 12:33:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA18624 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:33:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04382; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:45:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA26608 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:43:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26575 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:43:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00444 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:42:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp189-134.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.134]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA15256 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:42:57 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199907301742.TAA15256@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Musketeers Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 19:45:28 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi all, Hillary wrote: > Are there patterns available for the musketeer > costumes *as seen in* Man in the Iron Mask? > (thinking specifically of the black w/ red > lining on the Three themselves at the end) > > Are the musketeer costumes from Man in the > Iron Mask anywhere near accurate? It's a funny thing, but yesterday evening we rented the video and watched it (after The Mask of Zorro; nice film, Banderas was good). I must say: we did not like it much: flimsy story, very silly plot and not too good acting. The costumes looked alright to me (not my period, though), but I doubted the musketeers tabards Irons got from behind the gravesculpture. These were supposed to be the ones they had worn during Louis XIII's reign in the 20's and 30's, but they were black, rather long and of a much too late pattern. I know for a fact that the colour of this tabard was a light greyish blue, with a white (silver?) and gold embroidered sun burst cross (pommee?) on the front and back. The Richard Lester movie of the 3 Musketeers had them perfect. The colours of the musketeers as they were portrayed in the rest of the film were a bit too royal blue to my taste, but I'm not sure this wasn't correct. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jul 30 13:19:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19795 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:18:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11050; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:31:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06096 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:29:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA06083 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:29:45 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990730183344.12176.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:33:44 PDT Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:33:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Musketeers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney *However*... the patterns are available... but for the life of me I cannot remember where... it was a smaller company specializing in the recreation of film costuming... sorry I can't be of more help. Sarah > Hillary wrote: > > Are there patterns available for the musketeer > > costumes *as seen in* Man in the Iron Mask? > > (thinking specifically of the black w/ red > > lining on the Three themselves at the end) > > > > Are the musketeer costumes from Man in the > > Iron Mask anywhere near accurate? > > It's a funny thing, but yesterday evening we rented > the video and watched > it (after The Mask of Zorro; nice film, Banderas was > good). I must say: we > did not like it much: flimsy story, very silly plot > and not too good > acting. The costumes looked alright to me (not my > period, though), but I > doubted the musketeers tabards Irons got from behind > the gravesculpture. > These were supposed to be the ones they had worn > during Louis XIII's reign > in the 20's and 30's, but they were black, rather > long and of a much too > late pattern. I know for a fact that the colour of > this tabard was a light > greyish blue, with a white (silver?) and gold > embroidered sun burst cross > (pommee?) on the front and back. The Richard Lester > movie of the 3 > Musketeers had them perfect. The colours of the > musketeers as they were > portrayed in the rest of the film were a bit too > royal blue to my taste, > but I'm not sure this wasn't correct. > > Henk > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jul 30 13:35:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20314 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:35:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12772; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:47:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA08922 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:44:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ares.flash.net (ares.flash.net [209.30.0.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08910 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:44:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p124.amax13.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.67.124]) by ares.flash.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16443 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:44:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37A1F27D.F3A5FAB1@flash.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:44:14 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Embroidery References: <000301beda97$77c88760$780bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > You'll have a tough time finding it, and it probably doesn't > circulate, but this book is fabulous (in two huge volumes): > Shuette or Schutte with an umlaut over the "u." Originallly > in German, translated into English: *The Art of Embroidery,* > co-authored by Sigrid Muller-Christensen, and translated by > Donald King. I think the > English publication was Thames and Hudson and published > around 1964. My small county library has this book in circulation. I once asked them to consider putting it in reference, but they decided to keep it in circulation. I'll be *majorly* upset if someone walks off with it (as well as the prime suspect :-) ). --Charlene -- A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jul 30 13:40:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20541 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:40:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13567; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:52:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09933 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:49:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet-smtp1.oracle.com (inet-smtp1.oracle.com [209.246.15.57]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09926 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:49:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet-smtp1.oracle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA15541 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id JAA04290; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:57:49 -0700 Message-ID: <37A1D84E.FE271A30@us.oracle.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:52:30 -0700 From: Sally Norton Organization: Oracle Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Dress Worn to Escape the Revolution Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sally Norton I made the Dress Worn to Escape the Revolution. It was published by the Northern Society of Costume and Textiles. There is a review of the pattern and a photo of my gown on the Greater Bay Area Costumer's Guild website. http://www.toreadors.com/costume Click on Pattern Review. The listings are alphabetical by the name of the Pattern Company. To see this one, click on NO. The front of the gown is very plain. It has a moderate round neck, unadorned and fastens up the front with hooks and eyes. The bodice front comes straight across at the waistline. The pattern includes information on the history of the gown which was preserved by the family. I think I remember that the gown was purchased from the wife of the boatman who roved the family out to sea. It's a very simple pattern and was easy to scale up. I made two changes: I added a ruffle to the skirt and I made the bodice lace up the front. Sally Norton snorton@us.oracle.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jul 30 13:41:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20571 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:41:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13803; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:53:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10429 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:51:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ares.flash.net (ares.flash.net [209.30.0.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10410 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:51:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p124.amax13.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.67.124]) by ares.flash.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21307 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:51:30 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37A1F41B.55C5E656@flash.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:51:07 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Embroidery References: <000b01bedaa6$86137140$100bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > In German Schutte's book was published in Leipzig 1927-30, > under the title *Gestickte Bildteppishe des Mittelalters.* Same author, different book. Pictorial History of Embroidery / Art of Embroidery was originally published in German: Das Stickereiwerk, Tubingen, E. Wasmuth, 1963 --Charlene -- A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jul 30 13:49:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20701 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:49:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14786; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:02:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11969 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:59:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11960 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:59:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA04485 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:00:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A1F68F.856DC9C3@serv.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:01:36 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Dress Worn to Escape the Revolution References: <37A1D84E.FE271A30@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > I made the Dress Worn to Escape the Revolution. It was published by the > Northern Society of Costume and Textiles. There is a review of the > pattern > and a photo of my gown on the Greater Bay Area Costumer's Guild website. Lovely outfit and you're lovely too! Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jul 30 14:27:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA21748 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:27:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21699; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:40:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19263 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:37:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19247 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:37:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA10261 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:37:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-110.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.110]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA22804 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:37:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003601bedac3$4a7c71a0$0787fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Dress Worn to Escape the Revolution Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:39:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" -----Original Message----- From: Sally Norton To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, July 30, 1999 11:42 AM Subject: H-COST: Dress Worn to Escape the Revolution >This is the one! (I don't remember there being a scarf like wrap on the shoulders, though. Was this an addition of yours too? The picture I saw was back view only in the Alter Years catalog. Does anyone in your affiliation have and would like to part with their copy? Let me know! Thank you! Michelle >-Poster: Sally Norton > > >I made the Dress Worn to Escape the Revolution. It was published by the >Northern Society of Costume and Textiles. There is a review of the >pattern >and a photo of my gown on the Greater Bay Area Costumer's Guild website. > >http://www.toreadors.com/costume > >Click on Pattern Review. The listings are alphabetical by the name of >the >Pattern Company. To see this one, click on NO. > >The front of the gown is very plain. It has a moderate round neck, >unadorned >and fastens up the front with hooks and eyes. The bodice front comes >straight across >at the waistline. The pattern includes information on the history of the >gown >which was preserved by the family. I think I remember that the gown was >purchased from the wife of the boatman who roved the family out to sea. > >It's a very simple pattern and was easy to scale up. I made two >changes: I added a ruffle to the skirt and I made the bodice lace up the >front. > >Sally Norton >snorton@us.oracle.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jul 30 14:39:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA22073 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:39:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24139; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:52:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21716 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:49:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21706 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 13:49:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13942 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-110.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.110]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29286 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:49:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004501bedac4$ecbff1c0$0787fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: pattern out of print Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:51:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >Try Lacis! What a cool site! I put it in my 'favorites.' I will give them a call. Thank you, Margery! >If it's the same pattern, and I'm pretty sure it is, they have it in >their non-illustrated online catalog: >SP509 N. SOCIETY: #02 Drsss of Revolution, 1793 14.00 > >Go to http://www.lacis.com/catalog/catalog.htm >click on catalog price list in the upper frame >scroll down to patterns in the side menu frame >click on 'misc patterns' >it's the 4th in the list. > >You may want to call and ask if they have it in stock and if this is >indeed the pattern you are looking for. > >I have a dim memory of the pattern description from reading the >envelope, and I think it is indeed the pattern, or a similar pattern. > >Good luck. > >Margery >"Do you have any files?" >"We're the government, of course we have files." >Millenium >{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Jul 30 16:44:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA25538 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:44:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12822; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:57:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05592 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:55:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05583 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 15:55:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-84.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.84]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10447 for ; Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A19B5E.B55D23A4@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 12:32:34 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Musketeers References: <199907301742.TAA15256@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Henk wrote: > The costumes looked alright to me (not my period, though) > I know for a fact that the colour of this tabard was a light > greyish blue, with a white (silver?) and gold embroidered sun > burst cross (pommee?) on the front and back. I had the opportunity to view the actual tabards from the movie on display at FIDM (Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising), as well as costumes from other Oscar nominated movies (Elizabeth, Shakespeare in Love, etc.). I soon realized that these were theatrical costumes that looked nice on film, but were often rather disappointing up close. Many of the pieces used tricks to get the correct look, but the actual construction was not accurate. The Musketeer tabards were a blue grey color. The cross was made with simple silver rayon/mylar ribbon trim for the arms with a machine fabricated gold rayon/mylar iron-on fleur-de-lis appliqué at the terminal of each arm. I don't recall whether there were rays at the junction of the cross or not. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jul 31 08:24:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA00571 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 08:24:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16537; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 07:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA02302 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 07:35:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02297 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 07:35:15 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6DRHa07446 (319) for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:34:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 09:34:32 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Musketeers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 99-07-30 17:56:31 EDT, you write: << I soon realized that these were theatrical costumes that looked nice on film, but were often rather disappointing up close. Many of the pieces used tricks to get the correct look, but the actual construction was not accurate. >> Well...duh! James Acheson desiged "Iron Mask"...which is an awful film indeed. But he is one of the best designers around [he's won 3 oscars]. Of course colors & textures appear to be different on camera and anticipating how they will look is part of the knack. There's tons of painted "embroidery" in "Last Emperor" for instance. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jul 31 14:28:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA08887 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 14:28:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15019; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 13:40:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08195 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 13:37:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08185 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 13:37:39 -0600 (MDT) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6QOUa13735 (3876) for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6dd051b9.24d4aa59@aol.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:36:57 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Musketeers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 7/31/99 8:36:17 AM Central Daylight Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: << Well...duh! James Acheson desiged "Iron Mask"...which is an awful film indeed. But he is one of the best designers around [he's won 3 oscars]. Of course colors & textures appear to be different on camera and anticipating how they will look is part of the knack. >> I just loved this film. The storyline and costuming. I wish there was a picture book on the customes of the film or at least a website. Maybe there is. Anyone know? Kelly _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jul 31 14:41:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA09334 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 14:41:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15848; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 13:54:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09764 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 13:50:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09756 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 13:50:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p32.directcon.net [206.170.184.81]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA29682 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 12:49:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199907311949.MAA29682@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: New Costume Website! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Hi everyone: My website is up! There are sections on Costuming as a Business, Costume Humor, Projects, Tips and Tricks, and a photo gallery. Sections on Elizabethan Costume and Gold Rush Costume are coming soon. Please take a look and tell me what you think. It would be particularly helpful if you tell me what browser and what size monitor you used to view it. The URL is: http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm Thanks! Margo Anderson Margo@directcon.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jul 31 15:51:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11227 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:51:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21176; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:03:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA17365 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:01:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17358 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:01:16 -0600 (MDT) From: RobesOf@aol.com Received: from RobesOf@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6AAJa05141 (3878) for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 17:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 17:00:10 EDT Subject: H-COST: Copyright To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: RobesOf@aol.com Hello everyone, Here is some additional copyright information: Copyright Information Here is a chart of when works pass into public domain: Untitled Document Will have more info shortly. Happy reading. Erica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jul 31 15:58:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA11346 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:58:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21673; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:11:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA18225 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:09:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net (svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18209 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 15:09:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem35.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.35] helo=heri) by svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 11AgNa-0000YY-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 22:09:19 +0100 Message-ID: <001b01bedb98$f9d04340$23065cc3@heri> From: "L.D.Mundy (Editors-Heritage Matters Magazine)" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Copyright Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 22:09:27 +0100 Organization: Wysewords Cooperative MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.D.Mundy (Editors-Heritage Matters Magazine)" If you use this be careful of the figures mentioned in 1996; European dates are now 70 years extendable from the death the last of the creators as from 1998 With other changes at the beginning of this year. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, July 31, 1999 10:00 PM Subject: H-COST: Copyright > > -Poster: RobesOf@aol.com > > Hello everyone, > > Here is some additional copyright information: > > Copyright > Information > > Here is a chart of when works pass into public domain: > > Untitled > Document > > Will have more info shortly. Happy reading. > > Erica > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Jul 31 21:51:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA20759 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 21:51:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15487; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 20:56:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA19368 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 20:53:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA19356 for ; Sat, 31 Jul 1999 20:52:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 3967 invoked from network); 1 Aug 1999 02:45:51 -0000 Received: from 40.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO ?207.183.240.40?) (207.183.240.40) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 1 Aug 1999 02:45:51 -0000 X-Sender: karolee@keith.lloyd.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 31 Jul 1999 19:52:52 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: karolee@fenris.net (Karolee Smiley) Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Musketeers Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: karolee@fenris.net (Karolee Smiley) >-Poster: M311@aol.com > >In a message dated 7/31/99 8:36:17 AM Central Daylight Time, >AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > ><< > Well...duh! James Acheson desiged "Iron Mask"...which is an awful film > indeed. But he is one of the best designers around [he's won 3 oscars]. Of > course colors & textures appear to be different on camera and anticipating > how they will look is part of the knack. >> > >I just loved this film. The storyline and costuming. I wish there was a >picture book on the customes of the film or at least a website. Maybe there >is. Anyone know? >Kelly I thought the costuming was fine (but its just a bit past my period too). Going from memory, my husband and I were discussing the "old livery". He says that they are cassocks, the ultimate in versatile clothing. There should be a pattern in Cut of Men's Clothes. I don't have a copy of my own, so I can't check all of that. Too bad they couldn't follow the story by Dumas. This was a 90's remake of the Chamberlin movie, and had very little in common with the book. Keep in mind, this story takes place around thirty or forty years after the Three Musketeers (thats my period) so those cassocks sat around for quite awhile. Karolee J. Smiley Kaitlin MacPherson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 1 09:53:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05024 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 09:53:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26855; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 09:06:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01326 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 09:01:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA01313 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 09:01:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908011501.JAA01313@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 13948 invoked from network); 1 Aug 1999 09:01:49 -0600 Received: from ts19-31.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.10.170) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 1999 09:01:49 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: New Costume Website! Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 09:06:20 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" Margo, I just visited your Website. Looking Good!! It is on my 'favorites'. Let us know when you get the pictures up. Just one suggestion, the blue text on the red background is almost impossible to read. Also, I have had problems in the past with red and blue text not printing when using a black and white printer. Kathlene ---------- > From: Margo Anderson > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: New Costume Website! > Date: Saturday, July 31, 1999 1:49 PM > > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > Hi everyone: My website is up! There are sections on Costuming as a > Business, Costume Humor, Projects, Tips and Tricks, and a photo gallery. > Sections on Elizabethan Costume and Gold Rush Costume are coming soon. > > Please take a look and tell me what you think. It would be particularly > helpful if you tell me what browser and what size monitor you used to view it. > > The URL is: http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > Thanks! > > Margo Anderson > Margo@directcon.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 1 15:49:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA13250 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 15:49:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24034; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 15:00:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06980 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 14:57:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from duval.se.mediaone.net (duval.se.mediaone.net [24.129.0.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06973 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 14:57:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pompano.net.pompano.net (surf1171.pompano.net [24.129.60.17]) by duval.se.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA06180 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 16:57:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andy Oppenheim" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: New Costume Website! Date: Sun, 1 Aug 1999 16:52:58 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <199908011501.JAA01313@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andy Oppenheim" Does anyone know where to find a 16 cent doublet pattern online? Andy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 1 16:10:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA13862 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 16:10:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25995; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 15:23:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA09351 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 15:20:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09318 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 15:20:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [38.30.214.171] (ip171.washington13.dc.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.214.171]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA13213; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 14:20:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908012120.OAA13213@harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Subject: H-COST: Web Sites of Interest Date: Sun, 1 Aug 99 17:25:33 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: "DC Costume List" , "Historic Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Thought you might be interested in these sites. I have not checked them out but thought they may be helpful. Margo King >A REALLY GREAT SHOE >http://www.centuryinshoes.com/intro.html > >Solemates: The Century in Shoes is an interactive virtual exhibit of shoes >through the century. Browse 100 years of changing footwear fashions >including old advertisements. >FINDING ART ON THE INTERNET >http://www.artcyclopedia.com/index.html > >The mission of ArtCyclopedia is to become the definitive and most effective >guide to museum-quality fine art on the Internet. They currently report >having 14,000 links directly to the works of 5,500 different artists and >only provide references to sites where artists' works can be viewed online. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 1 20:22:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA19409 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 20:22:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18094; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 19:34:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05133 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 19:32:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05124 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 19:32:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from slave (BayArea56k533.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.133]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id SAA18357 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 18:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A4F49A.7134@netwiz.net> Date: Sun, 01 Aug 1999 18:30:02 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: book--off topic References: <199908012120.OAA13213@harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi This is such well-read and er, *eclectic* group, I hope someone can help me remember the name of a book. It's an historical novel I read in the early 60's so god knows when it was published. I *thought* it was called "Road to Byzantium" but I can find no such title in the databases. It opens with the burning of Joan of Arc in Rouen, when our hero was a child. When he grew up, he was sent by his merchant employer on business trips which ended up with him in the city of Byzantium (not Constantinople, as I recall). His guardian/body guard/manservant is a Turk who converted to Christianity during a Crusade. (something like that anyway) Many marvelous contrasts are drawn between the unhygienic and primitive Europeans and the civilized (and clean) "easterners". I don't remember any specific costume references (except references to silk, lots of silk) but it had a tremendous impact on me and helped form my interest in the 'mysterious east'. So anyway, if anyone remembers this book, *please* tell me the name! Susan Fatemi -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 1 23:20:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA23335 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 23:20:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06489; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 22:32:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA24508 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 22:30:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24477 for ; Sun, 1 Aug 1999 22:29:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id NAA13654 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:59:51 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA00803; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:08:23 +0930 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:08:15 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: costume list Subject: H-COST: Stain on wool Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant Well, rather foolishly I wore an unhemmed white wool gown at a camping event (it was cold and i was in a hurry), and so of course, it got rather muddy round the hem (it's winter here atm). I threw it in the washing machine, but the mud didn't go away! Now there is a nice brown stain all round the bottom. It is a quite fine wool, with rather a tendency to fray so I don't want to wash it again before I hem it, but I don't want to hem it before I get the stain out as I imagine this will make it harder to get out. Any ideas? I have some Napisan (a pre-wash soaker for the uninitiated). If I soak it in that then rinse it by hand will that damage the wool? (They make lots of boasts about the stain removing power of this stuff so I imagine it's fairly strong) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 2 07:54:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA02697 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 07:54:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11541; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 07:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA17127 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 07:04:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17121 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 07:04:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costume (207-172-62-33.s33.tnt2.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.62.33]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA15090 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:04:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <011301bedce7$57cf1da0$213eaccf@costume> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: Feathers Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:02:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I am working on a vintage article for a webpage for the use and care of feathers. I realize that feathers are used in millinery. But are there others areas in costume that uses feathers? I am trying to come up with keywords for the search engines to use. This is such a detailed article I don't want anyone who works with feathers to lose out. Later... Penny Ladnier The Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 2 08:03:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA02954 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:03:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12186; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 07:16:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18173 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 07:14:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18166 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 07:14:48 -0600 (MDT) From: BarbMVD@aol.com Received: from BarbMVD@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6NVKa14808 (3858) for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4f014efc.24d6f39e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:14:06 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Feathers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: BarbMVD@aol.com << But are there others areas in costume that uses feathers? >> Fans Barbara Delorey _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 2 09:35:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA04902 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:35:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22394; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:47:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01400 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:45:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01395 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:45:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (granny.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA23881 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:44:44 -0400 Message-ID: <37A5AEDD.EBFD788F@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 10:44:58 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Feathers References: <4f014efc.24d6f39e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Maribou boas. Sometimes you get feathers in jewelry these days. Feathers as accents on "indian" clothing, or other "savage" clothing from days gone by might have feathers. cv -- I'm collecting a database & library of 3rd party articles about the SCA for everyone's reference. Email sca-clippings@thibault.org for details. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 2 10:04:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA05553 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:04:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26000; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:15:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07273 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:12:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07260 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:12:46 -0600 (MDT) From: RobesOf@aol.com Received: from RobesOf@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6PAGa02415 (3875) for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:12:05 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Feathers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: RobesOf@aol.com << But are there others areas in costume that uses feathers? >> Feathers are sometimes used as accents on dresses. Take for instance the Gone with the Wind dress, feathers along the neckline (hope I am thinking of the right movie). And during the "glamour" years in Hollywood (40's, 50's ?), feathers were used many times. I am sure people also use them in making fantasy costumes, too. Or are you just referring to historical costumes? Good luck! Erica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 2 10:21:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA05957 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:21:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28940; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:31:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10633 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:29:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10625 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:29:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA23476 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:29:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A5B9B0.FEA2A73C@serv.net> Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 08:30:57 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Stain on wool References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > I threw it in the washing > machine, but the mud didn't go away! Now there is a nice brown stain > all round the bottom. It is a quite fine wool, with rather a tendency > to fray so I don't want to wash it again before I hem it, but I don't > want to hem it before I get the stain out as I imagine this will make it > harder to get out. Any ideas? I'd serge the raw edge or zig-zag it before washing. Always, dirty or not. Actually I serge all cut edges before I put the garment together. > I have some Napisan (a pre-wash soaker for the uninitiated). If I soak it > in that then rinse it by hand will that damage the wool? (They make lots > of boasts about the stain removing power of this stuff so I imagine it's > fairly strong) Do you have any scraps of your fabric left? If so, do a sample wash. If it comes out okay give it a whirl. Don't know about Napisan but I would certainly use some kind of pre-wash stain remover. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 2 10:42:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06389 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:42:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01892; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:54:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29772 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:52:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29726 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 09:52:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p30.directcon.net [206.170.184.79]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA11725 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 08:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908021551.IAA11725@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Feathers Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 09:02 AM 8/2/99 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > >I am working on a vintage article for a webpage for the use and care of >feathers. I realize that feathers are used in millinery. But are there >others areas in costume that uses feathers? Well just off the top of my head: Boas. Those big showgirl headresses and backpieces. Feather trim on dresses such as those worn by Ginger Rogers, Cher, Charo, et al. Feathers made into hatbands, earrings, halter tops and trim on platform shoes were seen in the 70's. Aztec, Mayan, Hawaiian, and other ethnic feather textiles. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 2 10:50:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06571 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:50:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03418; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:02:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09533 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:00:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09507 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:00:32 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6GRYa06597 (2615) for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:59:39 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Feathers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Penny, National Museum of American History has a great "mini" exhibit up on Feathers and Preservation. Lots of information in their exhibition case. And don't forget ceremonial robes. One great 18th century robe is at Bishop Museum in Honolulu, Hawaii. Sally Queen Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 2 11:44:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA07769 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:44:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10342; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:56:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24269 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:53:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from polaris.shore.net (polaris.shore.net [207.244.124.105]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24261 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 10:53:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) id 11BLL0-0001BF-00; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:53:22 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:53:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Feathers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Katy Bishop Hello, I wa sjust looking at your website about your calendars, I love this year's calendar! Didn't know the new one was ready. I am a member of a non-profit vintage dance group, and we are holding our annual vintage dance week in Newport starting August 15th, and I think it would be a great place to sell your calendars, is there enough time to set up an account with you and get an order before then? I can either give you my ein number or the dance groups information. What are the number that need to be purchased wholesale? Thanks. Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 2 11:57:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08024 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:57:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12758; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:10:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27295 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:08:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27284 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 11:07:59 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6SJPa06597 (4397) for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:06:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <27b7c8fb.24d72a29@aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:06:49 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Feathers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com In a message dated 8/2/99 12:55:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, vintage@shore.net writes: << vintage@shore.net (Katy Bishop) >> Katy, Yes, there is time. Will email you off list with details. We are also sponsoring online costume articles by costume historians. Calendar images are the starting point, and the articles talk more about the clothing and customs. Current topic is "Girls of '61" by Cricket Bauer. She is talking about the 1861 custom of Daughters of the Regiment. Previous article was by Jo Paoletti on Little Lord Fauntleroy and his clothing. Enjoy and bookmark the page for more articles. The calendars are great connecting tools! Sally Queen Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 2 13:54:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10854 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:54:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01371; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:06:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21028 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:03:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA21009 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:03:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Mon, 02 Aug 1999 12:02:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199908021551.IAA11725@zeus.directcon.net> Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 12:02:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Feathers Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >At 09:02 AM 8/2/99 -0400, you wrote: >> >>-Poster: "Penny Ladnier" >> >>I am working on a vintage article for a webpage for the use and care of >>feathers. I realize that feathers are used in millinery. But are there >>others areas in costume that uses feathers? > >Well just off the top of my head: >Boas. Those big showgirl headresses and backpieces. Feather trim on >dresses such as those worn by Ginger Rogers, Cher, Charo, et al. Feathers >made into hatbands, earrings, halter tops and trim on platform shoes were >seen in the 70's. Aztec, Mayan, Hawaiian, and other ethnic feather >textiles. > >Margo > Not to mention all those hats - from all periods up to the 1950's that require so many feathers. Also (since I'm designing some right now) feather wings. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 2 15:35:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA13016 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 15:35:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19840; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:47:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16126 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:44:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vail.telesensory.com (vail.telesensory.com [12.7.233.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16115 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 14:44:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by vail with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1461.28) id ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:39:25 -0700 Message-ID: <2C0D9E383725D311B36500600895C4CA0E7C8D@vail> From: "Vickers, Jill" To: "'h-costume'" Subject: H-COST: OT - Costume College/Lost Item Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 13:39:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1461.28) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BEDD27.1B6FAB1E" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vickers, Jill" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BEDD27.1B6FAB1E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sorry to use this venue for something so obviously off topic, but I just don't know where else to try! I left a sweater (black, ribbed, w/hood and zipper) in the car of a fellow Costume College attendee while we were out getting into trouble down at the fashion district last Monday. Unfortunately, I forget her name. All I know is that she currently attends Chico State, she drives a light green Neon, and she's got medium length, curly red hair. If anyone knows how to get in touch with her, could you please let me know or at least pass this message on to her? I would greatly appreciate it! I can be reached at: (408) 616-8700 x3327. Thanks! -Jill ------ =_NextPart_001_01BEDD27.1B6FAB1E Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OT - Costume College/Lost Item

Sorry to use this venue for something = so obviously off topic, but I just don't know where else to try!

I left a sweater (black, ribbed, = w/hood and zipper) in the car of a fellow Costume College attendee = while we were out getting into trouble down at the fashion district = last Monday.  Unfortunately, I forget her name.  All I know = is that she currently attends Chico State, she drives a light green = Neon, and she's got medium length, curly red hair.

If anyone knows how to get in touch = with her, could you please let me know or at least pass this message on = to her?  I would greatly appreciate it!  I can be reached at: = (408) 616-8700 x3327.

Thanks!
-Jill

------ =_NextPart_001_01BEDD27.1B6FAB1E-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 2 18:12:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16537 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 18:12:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13693; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 17:22:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA27400 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 17:19:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1104.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.124]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA27389 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 17:19:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990802232029.3197.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [38.226.171.45] by web1104.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 02 Aug 1999 16:20:29 PDT Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 16:20:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell Subject: Re: H-COST: Feathers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carol Mitchell Lots of mascots are birds of one kind or another. Also, the best of class journeyman was won at WindyCon last year by a macaw costume Carol === Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 2 18:19:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA16601 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 18:19:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14422; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 17:29:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29243 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 17:27:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1106.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.126]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA29238 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 17:27:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990802232703.1931.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [38.226.171.45] by web1106.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 02 Aug 1999 16:27:03 PDT Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 16:27:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell Subject: H-COST: sca-garb list To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carol Mitchell I resubscribed to that list, got a message saying that I was subscribed, and two weeks later have recieved nothing. Is there a subscriber who might be able to explain this? Thanks Carol === Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 2 23:05:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA23092 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:05:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17421; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:18:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA09371 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:15:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09364 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:15:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.113 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 21:15:18 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: 16th Century Doublet Pattern Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:26:38 -0400 Message-ID: <000e01bedd68$00836160$0b0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Alcega's 2 16th Century doublet patterns are here on the Web: http://www.costumes.org/pages/renpattern.htm. Click on the images to enlarge. The original 1587 tailor's patterns. Size up to your chest girth. Janet Arnold. Patterns of Fashion 3 : The Cut and Construction of Clothes for Men and Women C1560-1620 ; Janet Arnold the single most useful book on 16th Century dress, very scholarly, lots of pictures, good patterns. Loads more detail, helpful for actually putting the doublet together. SCA Doublet pattern, no wings : ftp://ftp.cirr.com/pub/SCRIBE/Costume/Doublet.Gif I don't know enough about this period to be able to comment on it's authenticity for time and place, but it's simple. Not 16th Century, but too good to leave out. This site shows how to cut and fit the Poirpoint of Charles the Bold, circa 1367: http://fox.nstn.ca/~swan/artifact/article_aissiette.html. Not for the beginner! Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 2 23:22:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA23549 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:22:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19220; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:35:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA11304 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:33:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11292 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 22:33:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-32.radiks.net [206.29.243.34]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA13183 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:32:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990802233141.03c80628@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 1999 23:31:41 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: Feathers In-Reply-To: <199908021653.KAA24377@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger >- -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > >I am working on a vintage article for a webpage for the use and care of >feathers. I realize that feathers are used in millinery. But are there >others areas in costume that uses feathers? How about jackets, wraps, coats? I seem to remember designers like Erte' showing them in the teens and 20's. They looked like fur but much lighter. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 00:05:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA24586 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:05:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23250; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:18:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA15869 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:16:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15861 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:16:02 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6QZVa01827 (4002) for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 01:15:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3da8281f.24d7d4ec@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 01:15:24 EDT Subject: H-COST: Button Moulds To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com Has anyone ever heard of a source for such a thing? I've a friend in need with a button maker and no moulds. I'm assuming she doesn't mean simply covered buttons, she specifically said "moulds" I've looked through Greenberg &Hammer and a local fastener warehouse... Ideas? angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "O! Swear not by the moon, the inconstant moon, That monthly changes in her circled orb, Lest that thy love prove likewise variable." W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 00:21:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA25001 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:21:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24330; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:33:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA17404 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:31:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17392 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:31:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id PAA26670 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:00:58 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA01157; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:09:28 +0930 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:09:19 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: costume list Subject: H-COST: 16th century jackets Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant I've been looking at 16th century Flemish and Dutch paintings again. :-) What I've been looking at, more specifically, are the jackets worn by lower class women in the latter part of this century. I'm trying to figure out how they would have been put together. I'm not sure whether they would have been a similar construction to the informal embroidered linen jackets worn by upper class women (narrow centre back piece with seams curving into the armholes, two front pieces wrapping around the side to the back with no side seam), or whether they would have had an unshaped back and front like the jackets of their male counterparts seem to be, perhaps with side seams curving in to the waist, or a separate basque. Would poor women be more likely to adapt the styles of poor men or of rich women? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 00:25:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA25044 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:25:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24661; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:38:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA17987 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:35:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA17974 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:35:53 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:35:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 29294 invoked from network); 3 Aug 1999 05:28:50 -0000 Received: from 82.64.3-6.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.82) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 3 Aug 1999 05:28:50 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990802223626.3dcfa2a2@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Button Moulds Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 01:15 AM 8/3/99 EDT, MzScahlett@aol.com wrote: > >-Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com > >Has anyone ever heard of a source for such a thing? I've a friend in need >with a button maker and no moulds. I'm assuming she doesn't mean simply >covered buttons, she specifically said "moulds" I've looked through >Greenberg &Hammer and a local fastener warehouse... > >Ideas? > >angela >+++++ I know that you can buy moulds for casting your own pewter buttons. For that you can try James Townsend at http://www.jastown.com Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 00:25:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA25053 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:25:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24671; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:38:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA17985 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:35:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA17973 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:35:53 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:35:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 29294 invoked from network); 3 Aug 1999 05:28:50 -0000 Received: from 82.64.3-6.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.82) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 3 Aug 1999 05:28:50 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990802223626.3dcfa2a2@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Button Moulds Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 01:15 AM 8/3/99 EDT, MzScahlett@aol.com wrote: > >-Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com > >Has anyone ever heard of a source for such a thing? I've a friend in need >with a button maker and no moulds. I'm assuming she doesn't mean simply >covered buttons, she specifically said "moulds" I've looked through >Greenberg &Hammer and a local fastener warehouse... > >Ideas? > >angela >+++++ I know that you can buy moulds for casting your own pewter buttons. For that you can try James Townsend at http://www.jastown.com Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 01:10:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA26216 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 01:10:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27579; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:23:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA21997 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:20:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21990 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 00:20:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p13.directcon.net [206.170.184.112]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA20231 for ; Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 1999 23:19:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908030619.XAA20231@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Button Moulds Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson A I've a friend in need >>with a button maker and no moulds. I'm assuming she doesn't mean simply >>covered buttons, she specifically said "moulds" Wrapped thread buttons are made over wooden forms, similar to a disk bead, that are called moulds. Is this what she's looking for? I believe General Bead in San Francisco sells them. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 06:37:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA00637 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 06:37:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA11838; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 05:50:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA01720 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 05:48:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01712 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 05:48:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (d-gnaps-61.ici.net [207.180.12.68]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id HAA05395 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:47:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908031147.HAA05395@bajor.ici.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Button Moulds Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:48:05 -0400 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id FAA01715 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Irene leNoir >Has anyone ever heard of a source for such a thing? I've a friend in need >with a button maker and no moulds. I'm assuming she doesn't mean simply >covered buttons, she specifically said "moulds" I've looked through >Greenberg &Hammer and a local fastener warehouse... She might also mean moulds for creating glass buttons. My understanding is that they are in a general button shape with rods rising out of them where the holes for the buttons will be. You fill them with glass powder and bake in a kiln. I think I've seen such things in my lampworking supply catalogs. (Sorry, no time to check right now.) Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 11:04:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA06750 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:04:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11614; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:15:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14740 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:12:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14732 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:12:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-199-167.s421.tnt4.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.199.167]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA27855 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:12:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000801beddcc$35cc4940$a7c77ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: mostly finished object Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:21:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEDDAA.ADB74300" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEDDAA.ADB74300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I've finally finished my first dress since the new baby. I thought it would never get done. It is a merchant or middle class Elizabethan bodice and skirtin a linen/cotton blend with a warp of green and a weft of light blue. The bodice laces up the side backs by handmade eyelets like the Elenora of Toledo gown in Janet Arnold. There is also a matching flat cap. There are sleeves cut out, but as I will be wearing this at Pennsic, they aren't high on my list of priorities. I'm also working on embroidered guards for this and hope to have them done in about a month or so. The baby is starting to play be himself now, so they should be done pretty soon. http://martin.dc.usweb.com/dree/album/images/p0000843.jpg Andrea ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEDDAA.ADB74300 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="p0000843.jpg.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="p0000843.jpg.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://martin.dc.usweb.com/dree/album/images/p0000843.jpg [InternetShortcut] URL=http://martin.dc.usweb.com/dree/album/images/p0000843.jpg Modified=20BBA812CBDDBE01FC ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEDDAA.ADB74300-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 12:24:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA08700 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:24:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23795; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:36:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02014 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:31:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02003 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:31:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-43.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.43]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA20204 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:31:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990803133112.00912aa0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 13:31:12 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Want to meet at Pennsic? was Re: H-COST: mostly FO In-Reply-To: <000801beddcc$35cc4940$a7c77ad1@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, I know there are a number of us Pennsic goers on H-Cost. Does anyone want to get together so we can actually put faces to names. How about on Friday of War Weekend (since I'm getting down there on Thursday). We could meet at my camp or at the barn or something... Let me know what you think, Danielle (SCA Gwendoline Rosamond) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 13:15:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA09939 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:15:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01744; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:28:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA13160 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:26:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13147 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:26:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA17525 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:26:25 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp189-134.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.134]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA22984 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:26:23 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199908031826.UAA22984@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: "H-COSTUME" Subject: H-COST: Kirby Hall Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:22:15 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi all, Is there anyone among you (except for Mel Wilson) who is going to Kirby Hall on 13-16.8.1999? I would love to meet H-Costumers in the flesh there. I'll be in the 13th c camp either as a disreputable drummer (dressed in mi-parti red-green, large red drum) with a strolling players group or as a pikeman (arms: gules, a cross moline (or ancree) argent, over all a baston sable). I'll be in gambeson (I'm still finishing it, it's brick red), jupon (red with the cross), helmet (red), pike (10 feet), shield (gules, etc), sword, etc. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 13:42:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10708 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:42:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05178; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17882 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:50:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from storm.twcol.com (storm.twcol.com [204.210.251.99]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17873 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:50:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by storm.twcol.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA06274 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:56:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002501bedde0$f3550240$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: Want to meet at Pennsic? was Re: H-COST: mostly FO Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 14:49:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >I know there are a number of us Pennsic goers on H-Cost. Does anyone want >to get together so we can actually put faces to names. How about on Friday >of War Weekend (since I'm getting down there on Thursday). We could meet >at my camp or at the barn or something... Heck, I'm game. (Mention it to Alys Katherine and it can get put on the master schedule....) Susan Carroll-Clark (SCA Nicolaa de Bracton) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 13:50:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA10966 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:50:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07390; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:03:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19977 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:01:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailhost.neaccess.net (mailhost.neaccess.net [204.255.214.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19961 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:01:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (camb1191.capecod.net [209.244.250.175]) by mailhost.neaccess.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id PAA21697 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:01:26 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990803150100.00d01bb0@neaccess.net> X-Sender: kenton@neaccess.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 15:01:00 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Donna Kenton Subject: Re: Want to meet at Pennsic? was Re: H-COST: mostly FO In-Reply-To: <002501bedde0$f3550240$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Donna Kenton > How about on Friday >of War Weekend (since I'm getting down there on Thursday). Too much to do, too little time. I'm a Royal Herald, and there's no way I could meet on the day of Great Court. You could wander by East Kingdom Royal, though.... And just to keep this on an historic note, I've lost the URL and the date of the bog dress. I'm generally early Elizabethan, but don't have enough time to make lots of fitted garb. I lost 75 pounds and nothing fits anymore! Donna Kenton _____________________________________________________________ Donna Kenton * donna@dabbler.com * http://www.dabbler.com Baroness Rosalind Bennett * EK Chronicler _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 16:10:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA14128 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:10:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03919; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:24:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA17603 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:21:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17584 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 15:21:42 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6BAVa03769 (4255) for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:17:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2009fa1f.24d8b653@aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:17:07 EDT Subject: H-COST: Button Moulds, thank you To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com A big thank you to everyone who wrote back with suggestions. Turns out she was just looking for a better grade of covered button, so I think we've solved the problem. Once again the list is a resource unsurpassed! angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "The truth of it is, I have no shirt." W. Shakespeare _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 18:43:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17544 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:43:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26154; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:57:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16137 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:54:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.worldaccessnet.com (IDENT:qOECpFL8bgm5a3l2p6U6A5Mv+eA/G/dr@worldaccessnet.com [206.190.139.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA16120 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:54:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by vortex.worldaccessnet.com id m11BoOU-000dRhC; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:54:54 -0700 (PDT) (Smail3.2.0.91#4) Received: from max6-37.worldaccessnet.com(206.190.132.185), claiming to be "sidne" via SMTP by worldaccessnet.com, id smtpdAAAa006DP; Tue Aug 3 16:54:48 1999 Message-ID: <000b01bede0b$8b7ec4a0$b984bece@sidne> From: "Sidne Kneeland" To: References: <000e01bedd68$00836160$0b0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Subject: Re: H-COST: 16th Century Doublet Pattern more Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 16:54:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Sidne Kneeland" Greetings Hope and list! Thanks for the pattern references. I really liked the description of the cotehardie on the Artifact page. I was wondering who this Charles of Blois was and did a search for him. It could be that the drawing of the cotehardie is from one of Jean Froissart's paintings, the Chronicles that Froissart did turn up again and again in the Medieval Women Calendar. So, here is the distinguished Charles surrendering: http://www.bnf.fr/enluminures/images/jpeg/i3_0024.jpg he definitely is not wearing a cotehardie in this painting. from the Jean Froissart's Chronicles page: http://www.bnf.fr/enluminures/manuscrits/aman1.htm more calendar pages. and apparently (this is slightly off topic), this is the Blois Chateau: http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/lester/images/Renaissance/European.Renaissance/ M01.jpg or actually the chateau of Blois! I'd live there in a heart beat! And while I'm off topic anyway, this is a very COOL chateau also: http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/lester/images/Renaissance/European.Renaissance/ M04.jpg It is the north front, Chateau of Chambord, Begun 1519, The Keep roofed 1537 Okay, I'm done being off topic. Back to your regularly scheduled discussion..... Sidne > Not 16th Century, but too good to leave out. This site > shows how to cut and fit the Poirpoint of Charles the Bold, > circa 1367: > http://fox.nstn.ca/~swan/artifact/article_aissiette.html. > Not for the beginner! > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 18:54:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA17789 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:54:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27401; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:09:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18152 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:06:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18108 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:06:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA32673 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:36:42 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA01332; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:45:01 +0930 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:44:54 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 16th Century Doublet Pattern more In-Reply-To: <000b01bede0b$8b7ec4a0$b984bece@sidne> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 3 Aug 1999, Sidne Kneeland wrote: > > -Poster: "Sidne Kneeland" > > Greetings Hope and list! > > Thanks for the pattern references. I really liked the description of the > cotehardie on the Artifact page. I was wondering who this Charles of Blois > was and did a search for him. It could be that the drawing of the > cotehardie is from one of Jean Froissart's paintings, the Chronicles that > Froissart did turn up again and again in the Medieval Women Calendar. > I believe that cote-hardie is an actual garment, in a museum somewhere. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 19:56:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19134 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:56:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05026; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:10:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA26210 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:07:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26194 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.246 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:07:27 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Poirpoint of Charles the Bold Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:09:40 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bede16$ea577700$f60bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Marvellous images! Is it the same Charles? Was "de Blois also the Bold? But your period is about right. He's wearing a quilted arming jacket, perhaps 17 layers of linen quilted together, very good defense against sword cuts, especially at the shoulders. His may be covered with silk, as its so bright colored. The "enlisted men," if they were lucky, would wear these without armor, in natural colored linen. Did they call them jupons? Charles would have worn armor over his. Kohler has a section devoted to this extant, surviving poirpoint. Can't remember where else I've seen it, but it gets a lot of press in costume books because of its rarity and interesting cut. It is a thinner more elegant silk damask or silk brocade garment than the thickly padded arming jacket, but designed for an excellent range of movement. I wonder if it was worn under the arming jacket, or simply for "apres battle" wear. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 20:42:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA20274 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:42:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09685; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:57:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04028 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:54:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04021 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 19:54:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.246 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 18:54:24 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Moy Bog Dress Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:02:27 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bede1d$79490900$f60bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990803150100.00d01bb0@neaccess.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I. Marc Carlson's Some Clothing of the Middle Ages website has the Bog dress, right next to the poirpoint of Charles de Blois (yes, de Blois was the Bold, apparently) http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/cloth/moy.htm l. The poirpoint is at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/cloth/blois.h tml. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Donna Kenton > Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 3:01 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: Want to meet at Pennsic? was Re: H-COST: mostly FO > > > > -Poster: Donna Kenton > > > How about on Friday > >of War Weekend (since I'm getting down there on Thursday). > > Too much to do, too little time. I'm a Royal Herald, and > there's no way I > could meet on the day of Great Court. > > You could wander by East Kingdom Royal, though.... > > And just to keep this on an historic note, I've lost the URL > and the date > of the bog dress. I'm generally early Elizabethan, but don't > have enough > time to make lots of fitted garb. I lost 75 pounds and > nothing fits anymore! > > > Donna Kenton > > > ____________________________________________________________ _ > Donna Kenton * donna@dabbler.com * http://www.dabbler.com > Baroness Rosalind Bennett * EK Chronicler > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 21:50:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA22017 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:50:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17606; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:04:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14159 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:02:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14153 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:02:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA20343 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:02:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-231.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.231]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA12930 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:02:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000301bede26$1e728de0$271ffea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: sca-garb list Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:37:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" I subscribed to that list about two weeks ago too. I still have yet to receive anything. I guess that there isn't anyone actively posting to the list. Should we try and stimulate them? Michelle -----Original Message----- From: Carol Mitchell To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Monday, August 02, 1999 4:19 PM Subject: H-COST: sca-garb list > >-Poster: Carol Mitchell > > >I resubscribed to that list, got a message saying that I was >subscribed, and two weeks later have recieved nothing. Is there a >subscriber who might be able to explain this? >Thanks >Carol >=== >Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild >_____________________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 21:54:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA22090 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:54:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18198; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:08:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14727 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:06:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop.idsi.net (root@pop.idsi.net [208.195.228.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14720 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:06:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chantal (15-ta05wf.idsi.net [208.201.30.133]) by pop.idsi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA24707 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:06:16 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990803231006.009768b0@pop.idsi.net> X-Sender: chanty@pop.idsi.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 23:10:37 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chantal Pecourt Subject: Re: H-COST: sca-garb list In-Reply-To: <000301bede26$1e728de0$271ffea9@gunsafes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Chantal Pecourt On the contrary, the SCA garb list has been QUITE active lately. Perhaps you should contact the list manager? At 12:37 PM 8/3/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Michelle" > >I subscribed to that list about two weeks ago too. I still have yet to >receive anything. I guess that there isn't anyone actively posting to the >list. Should we try and stimulate them? > Michelle >-----Original Message----- >From: Carol Mitchell >To: h-costume@indra.com >Date: Monday, August 02, 1999 4:19 PM >Subject: H-COST: sca-garb list > > >> >>-Poster: Carol Mitchell >> >> >>I resubscribed to that list, got a message saying that I was >>subscribed, and two weeks later have recieved nothing. Is there a >>subscriber who might be able to explain this? >>Thanks >>Carol >>=== >>Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild >>_____________________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 21:58:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA22155 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:58:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18643; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:12:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15291 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:10:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15278 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:10:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id MAA02158 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:40:21 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA01361; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:48:40 +0930 Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:48:32 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: sca-garb list In-Reply-To: <000301bede26$1e728de0$271ffea9@gunsafes> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 3 Aug 1999, Michelle wrote: > > -Poster: "Michelle" > > I subscribed to that list about two weeks ago too. I still have yet to > receive anything. I guess that there isn't anyone actively posting to the > list. Should we try and stimulate them? There have been plenty of posts just recently to SCA-Garb, so I think something must have gone wrong with your subscriptions... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 22:03:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA22382 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:03:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19216; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:17:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16212 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:15:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16204 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:15:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA26040 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:15:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-231.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.231]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA21381 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:15:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001d01bede27$ff813060$271ffea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: mostly finished object Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:18:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Andrea, I went and looked. It is cute! I especially like the cap sleeves and the picadil/tabs at the pointed waistline. My favorite bodices are like that. How did you do the neckline of your chemise? It looks very pretty in the picture. Did you embroider? It looks to be the same color as the rest of your gown. I think it is beautiful and with the finishing touches it will be exquisite Michelle -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Gideon To: H-Costume Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 9:07 AM Subject: H-COST: mostly finished object >I've finally finished my first dress since the new baby. I thought it would >never get done. It is a merchant or middle class Elizabethan bodice and >skirtin a linen/cotton blend with a warp of green and a weft of light blue. >The bodice laces up the side backs by handmade eyelets like the Elenora of >Toledo gown in Janet Arnold. There is also a matching flat cap. There are >sleeves cut out, but as I will be wearing this at Pennsic, they aren't high >on my list of priorities. I'm also working on embroidered guards for this >and hope to have them done in about a month or so. The baby is starting to >play be himself now, so they should be done pretty soon. > > http://martin.dc.usweb.com/dree/album/images/p0000843.jpg > >Andrea > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 22:19:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA22732 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:19:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20785; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:33:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA18177 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:31:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18164 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:31:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.229]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:30:54 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: sca-garb list Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 03:25:32 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37b7b256.130512030@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <000301bede26$1e728de0$271ffea9@gunsafes> In-Reply-To: <000301bede26$1e728de0$271ffea9@gunsafes> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id VAA18171 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:37:27 -0700, you wrote: > >I subscribed to that list about two weeks ago too. I still have yet to >receive anything. I guess that there isn't anyone actively posting to the >list. Should we try and stimulate them? That's awfully odd. I'm on that list and I get traffic often enough that I know the list is still going strong. Maybe 2-4 messages a day. You might want to resub. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 22:27:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA22937 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:27:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21567; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:41:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA19252 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:39:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19245 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:39:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sue.computercrafters.com (pm3frd1-68-102.intrepid.net [206.102.68.102]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA02792 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:39:09 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990803234207.0084a440@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 23:42:07 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: Re: H-COST: Feathers In-Reply-To: <011301bedce7$57cf1da0$213eaccf@costume> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sue Shatto Penny, I think I have tips on feathers in my section on the care of hats. At 09:02 AM 8/2/99 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > >I am working on a vintage article for a webpage for the use and care of >feathers. I realize that feathers are used in millinery. But are there >others areas in costume that uses feathers? I am trying to come up with >keywords for the search engines to use. This is such a detailed article I >don't want anyone who works with feathers to lose out. > >Later... Penny Ladnier >The Costume Gallery >http://www.costumegallery.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 22:47:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA23389 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:47:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23669; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:01:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA21709 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:59:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21698 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 21:59:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.176] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11BsDL-0004Pv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 20:59:39 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 20:59:32 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: sca-garb list In-Reply-To: <37b7b256.130512030@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <000301bede26$1e728de0$271ffea9@gunsafes> <000301bede26$1e728de0$271ffea9@gunsafes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I referred the ladies' plaints to the Listkeeper of SCA-Garb. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 22:55:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA23588 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:55:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24243; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:09:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA22695 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:07:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.inil.com (inil.com [206.31.32.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22684 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:07:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.31.165.100] by mail.inil.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 177-57935U7500L650S0V35) with ESMTP id com; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:07:27 -0500 X-Sender: baddorf@pop3.inil.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <00cc01bed6ab$101f7000$0745f7a5@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:07:34 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Deb Baddorf Subject: Re: H-COST: Hot reenactors Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Deb Baddorf >>>I'm going to try a busk made out of ICE. >>>.....the "snack size" ziplock baggies. >>>5 or 6" wide (like a regular sandwich bag) >>>but only 3" deep. They're made for kids' snacks. >>> >>>Partially filled with water, zipped closed so as >>>to exclude air pockets, and frozen solid > >Well, for starters -- a number of the baggies >burst their seams while freezing. Just a little, but >that means I'm going to get wet as they melt >down my front. SO -- add to the "plan": >I'll take a box of larger ziplocs to stick the >ice busks INTO, before each use. The above plan worked quite nicely! At 6x3" the ice chunks didn't make very good "busks" but worked great in the "bolster" position. That is, I put them horizontally, on the lower rib cage. Under the bust, not touching (don't think I want ice *on* the busts). Above the tummy, which also doesn't want to freeze. But the rib cage thought it was Just Fine. And the second layer of baggy provided enough insulation that it never felt too cold. Even on the cooler day of the weekend (the heat finally broke) these gave me added pep and zip, and I had energy to do things I haven't done in several years. (Repeatedly lift the costume and show the panniers, etc. And wearing the black gown all day, rather than removing the fancy costume and reverting to peasant attire.) I'd say this is a winner idea. Try it! Deb Deb Baddorf http://www.inil.com/users/baddorf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 23:24:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA24247 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:24:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26304; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:38:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25872 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:35:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25867 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:35:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-25.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FFX00E0UB5D99@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:29:39 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 23:35:12 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: H-COST: Re: Moy Bog Dress To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <37A7C300.5E8CE784@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199908040331.VAA18196@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson > From: "Hope H. Dunlap" > I. Marc Carlson's Some Clothing of the Middle Ages website > has the Bog dress, right next to the poirpoint of Charles de > Blois (yes, de Blois was the Bold, apparently) I'm not sure, but if Donna is seeking to avoid "fitted" clothing right now, the Moy dress might not be the bog dress she is looking for. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 3 23:37:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA24541 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:37:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27298; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:51:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA27246 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:49:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from dias.net (dias.net [199.170.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27237 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:49:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ophelia@localhost) by dias.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA20584 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:52:59 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ophelia@dias.net) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:52:59 -0500 (CDT) From: "Sara J. Davitt" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Hot reenactors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Sara J. Davitt" Now I'm not certain how much there are, where to get them, or anything more than that they exist... but rumour has it that there is a little neck gadjet that puts a cooling element over each jugular, so that it slowly cools your blood on it's way to your brain and back again. They might be frightfully modern looking, BUT, it might be a way to cool yourself without getting wet. (esp if you are in super fancy stuff) And rumour has it that they are also pretty small. ciao, sarahj **2Y's**UR**2Y's**UB**IC**UR**2Y's**4Me** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 00:05:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA25266 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:05:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29585; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:19:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA00796 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:17:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00786 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:17:11 -0600 (MDT) From: Tigershado@aol.com Received: from Tigershado@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6GKDa06266 (14459) for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:16:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <246e73ec.24d926ac@aol.com> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:16:28 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Hot reenactors To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Tigershado@aol.com In a message dated 8/3/99 11:50:01 PM Central Daylight Time, ophelia@dias.net writes: > Now I'm not certain how much there are, where to get them, or anything > more than that they exist... but rumour has it that there is a little neck > gadjet that puts a cooling element over each jugular, so that it slowly > cools your blood on it's way to your brain and back again Several years ago I saw someone with a kind of bandana/scarf that had a pocket for ice. IIRC he still ended up wet when the ice melted. Recently I've come across something similar that contains crystals that absorb water & can be frozen. Apparently you pat them dry after soaking & they're dry to the touch. I suspect the crystals are the same as the ones I've seen used as a potting soil additive. Barbara Tigershado@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 00:28:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA25758 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:28:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01697; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:42:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA03117 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:40:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.snet.net (smtp.snet.net [204.60.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03109 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:40:09 -0600 (MDT) From: snowfire@mail.snet.net Received: from [204.60.211.210] (hrfr-sh24-port210.snet.net [204.60.211.210]) by smtp.snet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/SNET-bmx-1.3/D-1.7/O-1.6) with SMTP id BAA12636 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908040540.BAA12636@smtp.snet.net> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 01:34:36 -0400 Subject: Re: H-COST: Preparing for the Pennsic War To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <000301bede26$1e728de0$271ffea9@gunsafes> X-Mailer: SPRYNET Mail 32-Bit Mail Version: 05.00.06.72 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: snowfire@mail.snet.net -Poster Elysant M'lady, if every SCAdian on the SCA-garb is like me, they are all sewing frantically and making final frenzied preparations for the next two weeks. I might be wrong, but it is most likely, in my opinion, that the Garb list will not start to increase significantly in post volume until the last week of August (similarly I imagine the volume will be down in all other SCAdian lists until then also). :-) Elysant de Holtham Canton of Fennbricg Barony Beyond the Mountain Eastern Kingdom >-Poster: "Michelle" > >I subscribed to that list about two weeks ago too. I still have yet to >receive anything. I guess that there isn't anyone actively posting to the >list. Should we try and stimulate them? > Michelle >-----Original Message----- >From: Carol Mitchell >To: h-costume@indra.com >Date: Monday, August 02, 1999 4:19 PM >Subject: H-COST: sca-garb list > > >> >>-Poster: Carol Mitchell >> >> >>I resubscribed to that list, got a message saying that I was >>subscribed, and two weeks later have recieved nothing. Is there a >>subscriber who might be able to explain this? >>Thanks >>Carol >>=== >>Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild >>_____________________________________________________________ >>Do You Yahoo!? >>Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 01:25:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA27227 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:25:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05853; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:39:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA08752 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:37:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08735 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 00:37:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-70-215.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.70.215]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04890 for ; Tue, 3 Aug 1999 23:37:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A77DD9.182141B9@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 23:40:15 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Preparing for the Pennsic War References: <199908040540.BAA12636@smtp.snet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Elysant wrote: > M'lady, if every SCAdian on the SCA-garb is like me, they are all sewing > frantically and making final frenzied preparations for the next two weeks. We're not all like you. ;-) Some of us live far enough away that our lives are completely unaffected by Pennsic. I'll make it someday, but it won't be soon. I'm sewing frantically, but it's for a friend's wedding. > I might be wrong, but it is most likely, in my opinion, that the Garb list > will not start to increase significantly in post volume until the last week > of August (similarly I imagine the volume will be down in all other SCAdian > lists until then also) Not all, but the ones where a significant fraction of the populace will be attending. That's probably limited to east of the Mississippi and north of the Mason-Dixon. Out here in Caid, the list traffic doesn't skip a beat. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 02:47:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA29097 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 02:47:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10212; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 02:00:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA15241 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:58:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15229 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:57:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA20205.; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:02:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:56:57 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:56:38 +0100 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Re:Kirby Hall Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id BAA15236 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" Henk: I shall be at Kirby Hall with the Captaine Generalls Musick, based in the large upstairs room in the house. I wear mid-17th century garb (russet bodice, green skirt) with a black veil over my hair. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 05:57:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA00485 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 05:57:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19679; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 05:06:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA25932 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 05:04:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from RBAD59.RBACRXCLU.BAS.ROCHE.COM (gw.bas.roche.com [196.3.50.241]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA25927 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 05:04:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rbamsemcn1.bas.roche.com (rbamsemcn1.bas.roche.com [145.245.211.139]) by Roche.COM (PMDF V5.2-31 #33472) with ESMTP id <01JEDCJSX4329EP0VX@Roche.COM> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:03:38 +0200 Received: by rbamsemcn1.bas.roche.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:03:24 +0200 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:03:34 +0200 From: "Holliday, Rachel {DISC~Welwyn}" Subject: H-COST: Re: Kirby Hall To: "Historic Costume List (E-mail)" Message-id: <431EB483DFB4D111A2D50000F843C5C401009E9E@rwemsem2.wel.roche.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sensitivity: Company-Confidential Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Holliday, Rachel {DISC~Welwyn}" I take it that this event is for Joe Public to gaup at. Does anyone know the entry price? If it's not too steep then I might pop along. I'll put a photo up on my web site if I'm going so you can look out for me. This is also conditional on my dear partner agreeing to take me, which after the Kentwell fiasco is by no means certain. Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 06:35:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA01350 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:35:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21835; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 05:48:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA29209 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 05:46:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net (svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.204]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29204 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 05:46:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem18.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.146] helo=herimats) by svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 11BzUp-0002ad-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:46:12 +0100 Message-ID: <008a01bede6e$f9b6fb00$f7075cc3@herimats> From: "editors; heritage Matters" To: References: <431EB483DFB4D111A2D50000F843C5C401009E9E@rwemsem2.wel.roche.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Kirby Hall Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:38:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "editors; heritage Matters" Hi;, 0171-973_3000 should give you details. Remember though they have a silly rule ; you cant go in costume unless you are part of it. This is definitely a public gawping event , in their thousands and thousands. Is the Kentwell fiasco repeatable? Dave > > -Poster: "Holliday, Rachel {DISC~Welwyn}" > > I take it that this event is for Joe Public to gaup at. Does anyone know > the entry price? If it's not too steep then I might pop along. I'll put a > photo up on my web site if I'm going so you can look out for me. This is > also conditional on my dear partner agreeing to take me, which after the > Kentwell fiasco is by no means certain. > Elizabeth > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 06:42:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA01543 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:42:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA22213; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 05:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA29751 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 05:53:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from RBAD33.RBACRXCLU.BAS.ROCHE.COM (mail-external-basel.bas.roche.com [196.3.50.190]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29738 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 05:53:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rbamsemcn1.bas.roche.com (rbamsemcn1.bas.roche.com [145.245.211.139]) by Roche.COM (PMDF V5.2-31 #33472) with ESMTP id <01JEDE971M389EOEPE@Roche.COM> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:52:20 +0200 Received: by rbamsemcn1.bas.roche.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:52:06 +0200 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:52:16 +0200 From: "Holliday, Rachel {DISC~Welwyn}" Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Kirby Hall To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Message-id: <431EB483DFB4D111A2D50000F843C5C401009E9F@rwemsem2.wel.roche.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Holliday, Rachel {DISC~Welwyn}" I think I can lay may trials at Kentwell down without involving legal problems and common decency. Basically I went there this year to what I though would be a wonderful spectacle of Manorial life in 1520. Oh how wrong can you get. I like my costumes to be if not authentic at least passable. There were some displaying quite obvious elastic! Add to that ye olde blue tack, and you are starting to get the picture. It is supposed to be educational am I right, I don't recall any Africans being members of the gentry in 1520 does anyone else? If I listed everything that was wrong with the event then we could be here for a very long time. Add to which it was really expensive, you can understand why I am a little hesitant to repeat the affair. Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 07:09:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA02037 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:09:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23424; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:22:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA02324 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:20:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailhost.neaccess.net (mailhost.neaccess.net [204.255.214.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA02319 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:20:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (camb0447.capecod.net [209.244.245.193]) by mailhost.neaccess.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA02077 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:20:35 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990804082006.00d28518@neaccess.net> X-Sender: kenton@neaccess.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:20:06 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Donna Kenton Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Moy Bog Dress In-Reply-To: <37A7C300.5E8CE784@utulsa.edu> References: <199908040331.VAA18196@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Donna Kenton >I'm not sure, but if Donna is seeking to avoid "fitted" clothing right >now, the Moy dress might not be the bog dress she is looking for. > >Marc Hmmm... I thought this dress was relatively unstructured. I must be confusing it with something else. Is this the thing that looks Greek, or the one that is multiple gores like the Greenland gown? Donna _____________________________________________________________ Donna Kenton * donna@dabbler.com * http://www.dabbler.com Baroness Rosalind Bennett * EK Chronicler _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 07:16:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA02226 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:16:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23796; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:29:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA03063 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:27:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailhost.neaccess.net (mailhost.neaccess.net [204.255.214.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03056 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:27:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (camb0447.capecod.net [209.244.245.193]) by mailhost.neaccess.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA02167 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:27:46 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990804082331.0077a640@neaccess.net> X-Sender: kenton@neaccess.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:23:31 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Donna Kenton Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Moy Bog Dress In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990804082006.00d28518@neaccess.net> References: <37A7C300.5E8CE784@utulsa.edu> <199908040331.VAA18196@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Donna Kenton At 08:20 AM 8/4/99 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: Donna Kenton > >>I'm not sure, but if Donna is seeking to avoid "fitted" clothing right >>now, the Moy dress might not be the bog dress she is looking for. >> >>Marc I found the picture of the bog dress I'm thinking of. http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/bog/jpegs/huldremose2.jpeg Definitely not fitted, and definitely NOT the Moy Bog dress. Thanks! Donna __________________________________________________ Visit my web page! http://www.dabbler.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 07:18:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA02247 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:18:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24003; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:32:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA03101 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:28:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03094 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:28:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-238-130.s130.tnt2.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.238.130]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id IAA22074 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000b01bede76$05d4ec60$82ee7ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <001d01bede27$ff813060$271ffea9@gunsafes> Subject: Re: H-COST: mostly finished object Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:36:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > How did you do the neckline of your chemise? It looks very pretty in the > picture. Did you embroider? It looks to be the same color as the rest of > your gown. > I think it is beautiful and with the finishing touches it will be > exquisite > Here is a close up of the blackwork on the collar. http://martin.usweb.com/dree/album/images/p0000333a.jpg Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 07:28:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA02465 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:28:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24513; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:41:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA04344 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:39:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04333 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:39:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-238-130.s130.tnt2.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.238.130]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA05893 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:39:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000801bede77$9e568f60$82ee7ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: corrected web address for blackwork Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:48:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEDE56.16386160" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEDE56.16386160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sorry, that address I sent earlier was wrong. Here's that close up of the blackwork on the chemise collar. http://martin.dc.usweb.com/dree/album/images/p0000333a.jpg ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEDE56.16386160 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="p0000333a.jpg.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="p0000333a.jpg.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://martin.dc.usweb.com/dree/album/images/p0000333a.jpg [InternetShortcut] URL=http://martin.dc.usweb.com/dree/album/images/p0000333a.jpg Modified=8046576777DEBE0198 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEDE56.16386160-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 07:44:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA02857 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:44:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25860; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:59:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA06571 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:57:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop.idsi.net (root@pop.idsi.net [208.195.228.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06562 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:57:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chantal (15-ta03wf.idsi.net [208.201.30.101]) by pop.idsi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA24159 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:57:03 -0400 Message-Id: <4.1.19990804085958.0097cbd0@pop.idsi.net> X-Sender: chanty@pop.idsi.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 09:01:43 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Chantal Pecourt Subject: H-COST: Source for Cotton twill and bias tape Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Chantal Pecourt Hello Does anyone know of a source for cotton bias tape and cotton twill tape? I can only find polyester. I know I will be able to find some cotton twill tape at Pennsic but need a source for the rest of the year. Also, is there such a thing as linen bias tape ( probably a VERY silly question but one can hope) Thanks _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 07:45:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA02862 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:44:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25908; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:59:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA06597 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:57:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06588 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:57:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FFX00GCEYDQIE@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:51:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:03:04 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Moy Bog Dress In-reply-to: <199908041228.GAA03110@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990804080304.0079e4d0@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson >From: Donna Kenton >I found the picture of the bog dress I'm thinking of. >http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/bog/jpegs/huldremose2.jpeg >Definitely not fitted, and definitely NOT the Moy Bog dress. That's what I was thinking. Of the two, the Huldremose gown is far better known, which is sort of odd considering that it's pre-Medieval. But I hope it works for you. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 08:15:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA03508 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:15:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28442; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:28:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10331 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:26:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web1306.mail.yahoo.com (web1306.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.156]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA10324 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:26:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990804133336.5117.rocketmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.54.226.52] by web1306.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 06:33:36 PDT Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:33:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Megan Irvine Subject: Re: H-COST: Source for Cotton twill and bias tape To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Megan Irvine --- Chantal Pecourt wrote: > > -Poster: Chantal Pecourt > > Hello > Does anyone know of a source for cotton bias tape > and cotton twill tape? I > can only find polyester. I bought two gross of cotton twill tape, 1 in black and 1 in white from Greenberg and Hammer. I don't know how much is in a gross, but it's a pretty big roll and I know I won't have to buy it again for a long time. It was not very expensive either. The number is (212) 246-2835 and they do mail order. === Megan Irvine _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 08:20:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA03598 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:20:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29213; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA11198 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:32:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11187 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:32:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA29859.; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:37:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 14:31:36 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 14:31:23 +0100 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: Kirby Hall Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id HAA11192 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" As we happen to have an English Heritage events handbook in the office, I can tell you that the adult entry price is £9.50 (free to EH members). I went as a spectator the first year and can tell you the standards are pretty high. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 08:33:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA03969 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:33:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00432; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:48:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA13092 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:46:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pony.cleanweb.net (cw40.cleanweb.net [208.145.1.150]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA13085 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 07:45:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 1064 invoked from network); 4 Aug 1999 15:47:10 -0000 Received: from ws27.tpcgi.com (HELO tpcgi.com) (208.135.251.61) by cw40.cleanweb.net with SMTP; 4 Aug 1999 15:47:10 -0000 Message-ID: <37A84540.39ED6C38@tpcgi.com> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:50:58 -0500 From: Paula Hanna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: sca-garb list References: <000301bede26$1e728de0$271ffea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Paula Hanna The very same thing happened to me. I've been waiting for something on this list for about that long. So how about this for a question? Does anyone know any really good sources for very early (actually pre-) Italian Renaissance dresses. Around 1470-1490. They have the one pattern with about five dresses that I know of in the Amazon Drygoods catalog. Suggestions for anything else? Paintings? Michelle wrote: > -Poster: "Michelle" > > I subscribed to that list about two weeks ago too. I still have yet to > receive anything. I guess that there isn't anyone actively posting to the > list. Should we try and stimulate them? > Michelle > >-Poster: Carol Mitchell > > > > > >I resubscribed to that list, got a message saying that I was > >subscribed, and two weeks later have recieved nothing. Is there a > >subscriber who might be able to explain this? > >Thanks > >Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 08:48:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA04312 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:48:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01995; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:02:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA15175 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:00:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15169 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:00:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA02049 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA24426 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:00:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:00:48 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: costume list Subject: Re: H-COST: 16th century jackets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed It's hard to tell...but the one picture I saw which revealed a side seam showed the seam as pretty much straight up and down, placed a little farther back than the exact side (lowest point in the armscye, that is). The front and back pieces flared out at the sides. The back appears to be quite wide, and in some cases made of one piece without a center back seam. Pictures are shown of it being worn in the 1560s by lower class women; I'd say it originated from a multipurpose garment worn by both poorer men and women. Paintings in the 1570s show a similar garment, but in many cases a collar has been added and the sleeves are puffed at the top. These jackets become more widely seen in market paintings than they are during the 1550s and 1560s. It is also in the 1570s that the long gown, cut like the aforementioned jacket, begins showing up in Flemish market paintings. I can't pinpoint this jacket's origin, but it is a nifty garment. Really warm! I've seen paintings where it laces closed, and one painting showing it buttoning closed. Hooks and eyes are another possibility, though I haven't seen any definitive proof of this fastening method for Flemish lower-class jackets before the end of the century. Hope this helps, Drea On Tue, 3 Aug 1999, The Purple Elephant wrote: > > -Poster: The Purple Elephant > > I've been looking at 16th century Flemish and Dutch paintings again. :-) > What I've been looking at, more specifically, are the jackets worn by > lower class women in the latter part of this century. I'm trying to figure > out how they would have been put together. I'm not sure whether they > would have been a similar construction to the informal embroidered linen > jackets worn by upper class women (narrow centre back piece with seams > curving into the armholes, two front pieces wrapping around the side to > the back with no side seam), or whether they would have had an unshaped > back and front like the jackets of their male counterparts seem to be, > perhaps with side seams curving in to the waist, or a separate basque. > Would poor women be more likely to adapt the styles of poor men or of > rich women? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, > Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" > and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson > friendly substance. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 09:08:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA04867 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:08:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05684; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:23:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA18346 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:21:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.snet.net (smtp.snet.net [204.60.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18335 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:20:59 -0600 (MDT) From: snowfire@mail.snet.net Received: from [204.60.8.12] (hrfr-sh1-port12.snet.net [204.60.8.12]) by smtp.snet.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/SNET-bmx-1.3/D-1.7/O-1.6) with SMTP id KAA00906 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:20:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908041420.KAA00906@smtp.snet.net> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 10:15:33 -0400 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Preparing for the Pennsic War To: h-costume@indra.com In-Reply-To: <37A77DD9.182141B9@pacbell.net> X-Mailer: SPRYNET Mail 32-Bit Mail Version: 05.00.06.72 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: snowfire@mail.snet.net -Poster: Elysant I see. I'm in the North East, this is my first year in the SCA and to go to Pennsic. Everyone I know is running around trying to get everything organized to go. With 10,000 in attendance last year, it seemed logical to me that the list postings might be more scarce during and just before (i.e. now) the event. If that's not it, then I also wonder what's going on with the SCAgarb list.... Elysant > >-Poster: Dietmar > >Greetings, > >Elysant wrote: > >> M'lady, if every SCAdian on the SCA-garb is like me, they are all sewing >> frantically and making final frenzied preparations for the next two weeks. > >We're not all like you. ;-) Some of us live far enough away that our lives are >completely unaffected by Pennsic. I'll make it someday, but it won't be soon. >I'm sewing frantically, but it's for a friend's wedding. > >> I might be wrong, but it is most likely, in my opinion, that the Garb list >> will not start to increase significantly in post volume until the last week >> of August (similarly I imagine the volume will be down in all other SCAdian >> lists until then also) > >Not all, but the ones where a significant fraction of the populace will be >attending. That's probably limited to east of the Mississippi and north of the >Mason-Dixon. Out here in Caid, the list traffic doesn't skip a beat. > >Regards, > >Dietmar > > >"Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; > over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 09:37:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA05728 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:37:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09412; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:51:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23462 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:48:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bsumail.idbsu.edu (bsumail.idbsu.edu [132.178.16.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23452 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:48:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cobfac.boisestate.edu (cobfac.boisestate.edu [132.178.51.3]) by bsumail.idbsu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14054 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:50:11 -0600 Message-Id: <199908041450.IAA14054@bsumail.idbsu.edu> Received: from COBFAC/SpoolDir by cobfac.boisestate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 4 Aug 99 08:48:53 -0700 Received: from SpoolDir by COBFAC (Mercury 1.44); 4 Aug 99 08:48:50 -0700 From: "Linda Yordy" Organization: College of Business & Economics To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:48:41 -0700 Subject: H-COST: Italian Ren -- was sca-garb list Priority: normal In-reply-to: <37A84540.39ED6C38@tpcgi.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Linda Yordy" 7F00,0000,0000> So how about this for a question? Does anyone know any really good sources for very early (actually > pre-) Italian Renaissance dresses. Around 1470-1490. They have the one pattern with about five > dresses that I know of in the Amazon Drygoods catalog. Suggestions for anything else? Paintings? I'm not strong on history, but I think 1470 was considered Renaissance in Italy rather than "pre." I remember hearing something about the Italians getting a head start on everyone else. Anyway, sources: Birbari, Elizabeth. Dress in Italian Painting 1460-1500. Great Britain: W & J Mackay Limited, 1975. Herald, Jacqueline. Renaissance Dress in Italy 1400-1500. New Jersey: Humanities Press, 1981. Both books are out of print, but if you can get them through library loan, they are about the only book sources around for this period. The Herald book has wardrobe accounts as well as paintings. Birbari gets more into how the garmets were cut and construction. Both base their conclusions on the artwork of the time. Paintings are a good bet. You can search for artwork at http://sunserv.kfki.hu/~arthp/search.html This is the Web Galary of Art search engine. Look up artists in Italy from 1450 to 1500. You'll get lots of good pictures. I especially like Leonardo da Vinci, Botticelli, Ghirlandiao, and Baldovinetti. Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 09:55:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA06243 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:55:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12646; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:10:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27368 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:07:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f278.hotmail.com [207.82.251.169]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA27361 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 71869 invoked by uid 0); 4 Aug 1999 15:07:22 -0000 Message-ID: <19990804150722.71868.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 12.21.110.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:07:21 PDT X-Originating-IP: [12.21.110.240] From: "Karie Mitchell" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Italian clothing (was sca-garb list) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:07:21 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" >So how about this for a question? Does anyone know any really good >sources >for very early (actually pre-) Italian Renaissance dresses. >Around >1470-1490. They have the one pattern with about five >dresses that I know of in the Amazon Drygoods catalog. Suggestions >for >anything else? Paintings? I'm sorry I'm going to have to take umbrage with that. Italian Renaissance starts much earlier than the 1500's. Some even say it starts with Petrarch and he's from the 1300's! But that's enough of that. I started with the Medieval Miscellaneous patterns (easy for a beginner like me) but I realized early on that they were of a modern cut and not terribly authentic. If you want a good source, I am exceptionally fond of Elizabeth Birbari's book on clothing in Italian Renaissance paintings. For the life of me, I can't remember the title. I'm sure someone from this list will remember. I have found little else about Italian clothes, just the usual couple of pages, or a chapter in an overview about clothing. I do know of one book that covers Venetian dress but I prefer the Lombardy region myself. I hope there is more help out there, I'm interested in gaining more information on this period as well. Back to lurking... Allessandre Desiderio (living in the heighth of the Renaissance in Milan, 1483) _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 10:15:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA06792 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:15:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15272; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:28:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01490 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:26:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01472 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:26:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA20775 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:27:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A85C10.9043AFFC@serv.net> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:28:16 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: mostly finished object References: <001d01bede27$ff813060$271ffea9@gunsafes> <000b01bede76$05d4ec60$82ee7ad1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover My browser says that it can't locate martin.usweb.com. Is this typed right? Thanks! Cynthia > Here is a close up of the blackwork on the collar. > http://martin.usweb.com/dree/album/images/p0000333a.jpg -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 10:23:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07029 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:23:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16857; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:37:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA03448 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:35:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from futureone.com (root@future.futureone.com [209.250.0.132]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03432 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:35:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (ppp1-31.presc.dialup.futureone.com [209.250.11.31]) by futureone.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA08923 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:35:18 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <002901bede8f$cd49ad80$1f0bfad1@pavilion> From: "RSewellBrown" To: References: <000301bede26$1e728de0$271ffea9@gunsafes> <37b7b256.130512030@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: sca-garb list Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:39:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "RSewellBrown" Please, would someone give us the address for the SCA-Garb list. Thank you, Rebecca in Arizon > > -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) > > On Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:37:27 -0700, you wrote: > > > > >I subscribed to that list about two weeks ago too. I still have yet to > >receive anything. I guess that there isn't anyone actively posting to the > >list. Should we try and stimulate them? > > That's awfully odd. I'm on that list and I get traffic often enough > that I know the list is still going strong. Maybe 2-4 messages a day. > > You might want to resub. > > Margery > "Do you have any files?" > "We're the government, of course we have files." > Millenium > {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 10:28:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07101 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:28:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18032; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:42:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA04405 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:39:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04396 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:39:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EG7H42A5; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 11:38:19 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Hot reenactors Message-ID: <19990804.071834.4855.0.cley@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,6-13 From: cynthia j ley Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 11:38:19 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: cynthia j ley We call them Coolies in this neck of the woods. ;) A lot of camping/outdoor gear stores carry them. They hide well under collars, and I've even heard of people using them on the inside of headwear. (Is that a coolie under your French Hood or are you just happy to see me?) ;) Arlys ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 10:31:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07267 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:31:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18671; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:45:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05464 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:43:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pony.cleanweb.net (cw40.cleanweb.net [208.145.1.150]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA05457 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:43:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 9928 invoked from network); 4 Aug 1999 17:44:25 -0000 Received: from ws27.tpcgi.com (HELO tpcgi.com) (208.135.251.61) by cw40.cleanweb.net with SMTP; 4 Aug 1999 17:44:25 -0000 Message-ID: <37A860BB.ED8FD69F@tpcgi.com> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 10:48:13 -0500 From: Paula Hanna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Italian Ren -- was sca-garb list References: <199908041450.IAA14054@bsumail.idbsu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Paula Hanna Thank you, Linda. Both books sound absolutely wonderful! Paula _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 10:45:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07592 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:45:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20910; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:59:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08248 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:56:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08235 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:56:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA21410 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:57:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A86328.2CB4AE13@serv.net> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:58:32 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: sca-garb list References: <000301bede26$1e728de0$271ffea9@gunsafes> <37b7b256.130512030@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> <002901bede8f$cd49ad80$1f0bfad1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > Please, would someone give us the address for the SCA-Garb list. As far as I know, go to http://coollist.com/ then at the bottom of the page fill out that you wish to join: SCA-Garb and your email address. Good luck. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 10:47:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07621 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:47:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21349; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:01:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08802 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:59:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08786 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:59:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA21420 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 08:59:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A863B5.13BD0275@serv.net> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 09:00:54 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: corrected web address for blackwork References: <000801bede77$9e568f60$82ee7ad1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover Thanks! Very very nice work. Cynthia > Sorry, that address I sent earlier was wrong. Here's that close up of the > blackwork on the chemise collar. > http://martin.dc.usweb.com/dree/album/images/p0000333a.jpg -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 10:47:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07629 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:47:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21440; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:01:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08918 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:59:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08909 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:59:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.51]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:59:07 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Source for Cotton twill and bias tape Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 15:53:49 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37aa6015.174998392@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <19990804133336.5117.rocketmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <19990804133336.5117.rocketmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id JAA08911 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Wed, 4 Aug 1999 06:33:36 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >-Poster: Megan Irvine >I bought two gross of cotton twill tape, 1 in black >and 1 in white from Greenberg and Hammer. I don't know >how much is in a gross, but it's a pretty big roll and >I know I won't have to buy it again for a long time. >It was not very expensive either. The number is (212) >246-2835 and they do mail order. I just checked the catalog, and they do carry a poly/cotton blend bias tape, but no all-cotton bias. Probably due to wrinkling/permanence of crease. prices (US funds): 1/2"wide: white 12.20/gross black 13.00/gross 1" wide: 16.50 17.15 I seem to recall that a gross is about 1200 of something, presumably either yards or feet, in this case. They do carry 100% cotton twill tapes, though. 36 yard rolls , black or white in the following widths: 1/4" 2.30/roll 3/8" 2.60/roll 1/2" 3.40/roll 5/8" 3.90/roll 3/4" 4.50/roll 1" 5.90/roll Their minimum order is 10.00. Hope this is helpful! Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 10:48:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA07643 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:48:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21608; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:02:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09109 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:00:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from x15.engin.umich.edu (root@x15.engin.umich.edu [141.212.198.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09093 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:00:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (parsla@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by x15.engin.umich.edu (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA04911 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:00:07 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:00:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Parsla Liepa To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: mostly finished object In-Reply-To: <37A85C10.9043AFFC@serv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Parsla Liepa I got to it, no problem. Parsla Liepa Here is a close up of the blackwork on the collar. <> http://martin.usweb.com/dree/album/images/p0000333a.jpg _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 11:00:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08057 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:00:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23333; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:15:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12035 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:12:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA12020 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:12:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Wed, 04 Aug 1999 09:12:35 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37aa6015.174998392@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <19990804133336.5117.rocketmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> <19990804133336.5117.rocketmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:12:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Source for Cotton twill and bias tape Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward > >I seem to recall that a gross is about 1200 of something, presumably >either yards or feet, in this case. > A gross is a dozen dozen, or 144. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 11:18:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08468 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:18:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25878; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:33:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16107 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:30:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16096 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:30:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.51]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:26:14 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Source for Cotton twill and bias tape Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 16:24:51 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37ac68a5.177190090@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <19990804133336.5117.rocketmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> <19990804133336.5117.rocketmail@web1306.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id KAA16100 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Wed, 4 Aug 1999 09:12:31 -0800, you wrote: > > >> >>I seem to recall that a gross is about 1200 of something, presumably >>either yards or feet, in this case. >> >A gross is a dozen dozen, or 144. Ah. Hence the 12 in my vague memory of it's definition (12 x 12 = 144). Thank you. It may stick this time. Probably yards, given that most everything else in the catalog is measured in yards, when cut lengths are available. Sorry for my poor math *grimace* Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 11:19:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08481 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:19:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25979; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:33:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16304 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:31:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16297 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 10:31:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.40] (ell21.acadia.net [205.217.218.5]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA17525 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:31:11 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:32:23 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: natural fiber tapes Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Check with Kathy Smith at Textile Reproductions - (413) 296-4437 Box 48, West Chesterfield MA 01084 She usually has a wide range of cotton, linen and worsted tapes, tabby and twill. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 12:09:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA09867 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:09:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05395; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:21:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27242 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:19:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dgs.dgsys.com (robin@dgs.dgsys.com [204.97.64.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27227 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:18:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by dgs.dgsys.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA12103 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:18:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: dgs.dgsys.com: robin owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:18:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Subject: H-COST: Costume Society Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton I have just realized that my membership in the Costume Society (of England) has lapsed. Before I send an international cheque, I want to make sure I know the current rates. Can someone who is a member please email me with the current rate schedule for overseas members? I believe they usually give a number in pounds and one in dollars. Thanks! --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 12:22:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10298 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:22:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08774; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:36:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00802 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:34:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00781 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:34:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.51]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:34:00 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume Society Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 17:28:42 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37af7810.181138075@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id LAA00788 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:18:54 -0400 (EDT), you wrote: > >-Poster: Robin Netherton > > >I have just realized that my membership in the Costume Society (of >England) has lapsed. Before I send an international cheque, I want to make >sure I know the current rates. Can someone who is a member please email me >with the current rate schedule for overseas members? I believe they >usually give a number in pounds and one in dollars. Thanks! Here's the web address, I think: http://www.bath.uk.com/CostumeSociety/default.htm Hope it's helpful! Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 12:30:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA10505 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:30:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10121; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:44:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02846 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:42:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA02840 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 11:42:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 19277 invoked by alias); 4 Aug 1999 17:42:07 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 19265 invoked by uid 0); 4 Aug 1999 17:42:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO john) (209.181.216.96) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 4 Aug 1999 17:42:05 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990804123919.00983360@rrnet.com> X-Sender: baird@rrnet.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 12:42:04 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Subject: Re: H-COST: Source for Cotton twill and bias tape In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990804085958.0097cbd0@pop.idsi.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" Cotton bias can be found at shops that cater to quilters. Or it's very easy to make your own, that's what I do. Check this source for linen tapes--rings a little bell. http://www.fred.net/stull/victoria.html Kim At 09:01 AM 8/4/99 -0400, you wrote: >-Poster: Chantal Pecourt > >Hello > Does anyone know of a source for cotton bias tape and cotton > twill tape? I >can only find polyester. I know I will be able to find some cotton twill >tape at Pennsic but need a source for the rest of the year. Also, is there >such a thing as linen bias tape ( probably a VERY silly question but one >can hope) > > >Thanks > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 13:39:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA12406 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:39:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22609; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:53:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18065 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:51:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18052 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 12:50:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA28178 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 20:50:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp189-172.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.172]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA06698 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 20:50:50 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199908041850.UAA06698@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Poirpoint of Charles the Bold Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 20:54:05 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Hope asked: > Marvellous images! Is it the same Charles? Was "de Blois > also the Bold? No, Charles de Blois, a younger son of the house of Chatillon, was married to the heiress of Brittany in 1337 and tried to succeed the duke in 1341, but this was contested by the English backed John de Montfort, who had equal rights to the duchy. He died 1364. Charles the Bold was duke of Burgundy 1467-1477. The pourpoint was supposed to be possession of the former, but I doubt this. It looks too late 14th c to me. Charles the Bold would have worn a qute different pourpoint or doublet. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 14:50:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14520 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:50:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06757; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:04:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA05986 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:02:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05977 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:02:18 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6HFBa06252 (3999) for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:01:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:01:21 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Source for Cotton twill and bias tape To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 8/4/99 9:36:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mirv01@yahoo.com writes: << I don't know how much is in a gross >> 12 dozen or 144...isn't it? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 15:20:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15218 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:20:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11787; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:34:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA13031 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:32:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13009 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA20243 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:32:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-236.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.236]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA12852 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:32:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000f01bedeb8$ccf7e760$af78fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: sca-garb list Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:34:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" -----Original Message----- From: StrangeGirl To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tuesday, August 03, 1999 8:24 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: sca-garb list It ,absolutely, was not my intention to upset everyone that actively participates in the sca garb list. If it came out bad, I apologize. StrangeGirl, I probably did do something wrong when I tried to subscribe. Can you email me with the proper address for the list manager? Thank you! >-Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) > >On Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:37:27 -0700, you wrote: > >> >>I subscribed to that list about two weeks ago too. I still have yet to >>receive anything. I guess that there isn't anyone actively posting to the >>list. Should we try and stimulate them? > >That's awfully odd. I'm on that list and I get traffic often enough >that I know the list is still going strong. Maybe 2-4 messages a day. > >You might want to resub. > >Margery >"Do you have any files?" >"We're the government, of course we have files." >Millenium >{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 15:28:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15457 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:28:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12917; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:42:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA14835 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:40:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14830 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:40:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA27588 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:41:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A8A5A3.3807949F@serv.net> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:42:11 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: sca-garb list References: <000f01bedeb8$ccf7e760$af78fea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover After reading the attached I couldn't see why anyone would have been upset. I hope that you got the information you needed! Cynthia > It ,absolutely, was not my intention to upset everyone that actively > participates in the sca garb list. If it came out bad, I apologize. > > StrangeGirl, > I probably did do something wrong when I tried to subscribe. Can you > email me with the proper address for the list manager? > Thank you! > >-Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) > > > >On Tue, 3 Aug 1999 12:37:27 -0700, you wrote: > > > >> > >>I subscribed to that list about two weeks ago too. I still have yet to > >>receive anything. I guess that there isn't anyone actively posting to the > >>list. Should we try and stimulate them? > > > >That's awfully odd. I'm on that list and I get traffic often enough > >that I know the list is still going strong. Maybe 2-4 messages a day. > > > >You might want to resub. > > > >Margery > >"Do you have any files?" > >"We're the government, of course we have files." > >Millenium > >{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 15:40:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15757 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:40:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14722; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:53:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17349 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:51:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17319 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:51:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA29025 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-236.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.236]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA24843 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:50:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004d01bedebb$6b377600$af78fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "costume list" Subject: H-COST: sca garb list Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:53:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004A_01BEDE80.BDEF2860" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BEDE80.BDEF2860 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When I got my mail today, I couldn't figure out why I had so much. I = started going through all my mail and a lot of them were about the post = I made regarding the sca list. I posted an apology for stirring things = up.=20 However, once I got through about 15 of the 50 some-odd posts, I got = to one from the list manager from the sca list. Carol, I don't know how = you did it but, thank you! Wow!=20 Does anyone have a source for grommets? I was buying them by the gross = in small brown boxes (don't know the company name off hand, but I called = them and they don't do private orders) from Orchard Supply. They either = aren't carrying them anymore or just not keeping them in stock. I have = enough now but don't want to be in a panic again next time I need = another box. Michelle =20 ------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BEDE80.BDEF2860 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
When I got my mail today, I couldn't = figure out=20 why I had so much. I started going through all my mail and a lot of them = were=20 about the post I made regarding the sca list. I posted an apology for = stirring=20 things up.
    However, once I = got through=20 about 15 of the 50 some-odd posts, I got to one from the list manager = from the=20 sca list.  Carol, I don't know how you did it but, thank you! Wow!=20
 
 
Does anyone have a source for grommets?  I was = buying=20 them by the gross in small brown boxes (don't know the company name off = hand,=20 but I called them and they don't do private orders) from Orchard = Supply. =20 They either aren't carrying them anymore or just not keeping them in=20 stock.   I have enough now but don't want to be in a panic = again next=20 time I need another box.
    Michelle
    =
------=_NextPart_000_004A_01BEDE80.BDEF2860-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 15:41:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15895 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:41:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15062; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:55:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17863 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:53:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17851 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:53:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.173] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11C828-0004dZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:53:08 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 13:53:02 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: sca-garb list In-Reply-To: <37A84540.39ED6C38@tpcgi.com> References: <000301bede26$1e728de0$271ffea9@gunsafes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Gwenllyan, Listkeeper of SCA-Garb wrote me to say that she has subscribed the other two ladies, Michelle and Carol, who had had no msgs. from the list since sub'ing. I have fwd. Paula's msg. to her, as well. Apparently, the webserver management page has been down and the listserver there is having problems, which are being worked on. If anyone else here has trouble subscribing, please write to me, and I will let Gwenllyan know. For Gwenllyan's sake, I ask your patience, please. Carol, aka: Gra/inne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 15:42:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA15922 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:42:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15145; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:55:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18031 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:53:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18022 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:53:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA00447 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:53:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-236.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.236]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA26596 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006b01bedebb$cee02800$af78fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: corrected web address for blackwork Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 13:56:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Beautiful! -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Gideon To: H-Costume Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 5:31 AM Subject: H-COST: corrected web address for blackwork > >Sorry, that address I sent earlier was wrong. Here's that close up of the >blackwork on the chemise collar. > http://martin.dc.usweb.com/dree/album/images/p0000333a.jpg > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 15:57:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16274 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:57:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17888; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:11:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA21528 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:09:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21517 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:09:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA28283 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 14:09:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A8AC5B.CF5CB323@serv.net> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 14:10:52 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Poirpoint of Charles the Bold References: <199908041850.UAA06698@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > No, Charles de Blois, a younger son of the house of Chatillon, was married > to the heiress of Brittany in 1337 and tried to succeed the duke in 1341, > but this was contested by the English backed John de Montfort, who had > equal rights to the duchy. He died 1364. Charles the Bold was duke of > Burgundy 1467-1477. The pourpoint was supposed to be possession of the > former, but I doubt this. It looks too late 14th c to me. Charles the Bold > would have worn a qute different pourpoint or doublet. I'm confused. Don't you mean that the pourpoint looks to belong to Charles of Blois because it is 14th century? It certainly isn't 15th century is it? Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 15:59:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA16302 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:59:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18190; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:13:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22040 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:11:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22029; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:11:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:11:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908042111.PAA22029@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: sca-garb list Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 08:39 AM 8/4/99, RSwellBrown@computerlink.com wrote: Please, would someone give us the address for the SCA-Garb list. Thank you, Rebecca in Arizon Here is the subscription info., but keep in mind that the listserv is having problems at present. You unsubscribe by writing to the listserv, too. For now, if you sub. and are not getting msgs. from the list, you might wish to view what's going on by reading the archives, for which the url is also inc. below. I am attempting to send this plain text, but if Eudora does as it pleases, as it often does, it may have 'html' gobbledy-gook in it, and for that, I beg your forbearance, as I have not found any remedy--it's just one of those wonderful 'features'. Carol [aka: Gra/inne ingen Domnaill Ilda/naig] To subscribe, send an e-mail message to: listserv@list.uvm.edu The entire message should read: sub sca-garb Your (Human!) Name Thus, if your name is Bill Clinton, you would send: sub sca-garb Bill Clinton [Also Please] SAVE THIS!!! To leave the sca-garb list, send e-mail to: listserv@list.uvm.edu and put the signoff command (unsub will also work) as the first line of your message with the list name. For example: signoff sca-garb or unsub sca-garb If you'd like to visit the archives which began with the list's move, see: http://list.uvm.edu/archives/sca-garb.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 16:51:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA17889 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:51:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26432; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:04:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA02967 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:01:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02956 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:01:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.173] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11C96W-0004Ko-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 15:01:44 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 15:01:39 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: sca garb list In-Reply-To: <004d01bedebb$6b377600$af78fea9@gunsafes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 01:53 PM 8/4/99 -0700, you wrote: When I got my mail today, I couldn't figure out why I had so much. I started going through all my mail and a lot of them were about the post I made regarding the sca list. I posted an apology for stirring things up. However, once I got through about 15 of the 50 some-odd posts, I got to one from the list manager from the sca list. Carol, I don't know how you did it but, thank you! Wow! Simply--I wrote the Listmistress who handsubscribed you. She is very good about keeping on top of problems once she is informed of them. What one does not know of, one cannot fix. As for me, I consider it part of the ideals of the Society for Creative Anachronism to lend my aid when/as I may. It is my pleasure and my duty to do so. Does anyone have a source for grommets? I was buying them by the gross in small brown boxes (don't know the company name off hand, but I called them and they don't do private orders) from Orchard Supply. They either aren't carrying them anymore or just not keeping them in stock. I have enough now but don't want to be in a panic again next time I need another box. -- Michelle This was posted to h-costume &/or SCA-Garb sometime previously, I believe: aleed wrote: > Of all the grommets I've tried, the OO size from Greenberg & Hammer are > the best for me. Not only are they cheaper than anywhere else ($5 per > gross), but they're also made of brass rather than, well, whatever Dritz > grommets are made of. Harder to pound in, but much smoother & flat when > finished. G&H's 800 number: 1 800 955 5135. Their new catalog won't be out for a couple more months (I'm now on the mailing list). Description re the store: http://www.teasociety.com/victorian/reviews/greenberg.html -- Little Bird Carol / Gr/ainne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 17:33:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA18999 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 17:33:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03991; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:46:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11562 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:43:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11537 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:43:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn17.pm3-6.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.241.158]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55F58F5197 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 16:43:49 -0600 (MDT) From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: corrected web address for blackwork Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 22:55:51 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990804224349.55F58F5197@sight.vcn.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Oooh, pretty! Is it an original pattern? Liadain ---------- > Sorry, that address I sent earlier was wrong. Here's that close up of the > blackwork on the chemise collar. > http://martin.dc.usweb.com/dree/album/images/p0000333a.jpg > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 19:56:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA22866 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:56:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25172; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:09:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05036 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:06:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05017 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:06:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id KAA09883 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:36:36 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA01505; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:44:53 +0930 Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:44:45 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: costume list Subject: Re: H-COST: 16th century jackets In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, aleed wrote: > > -Poster: aleed > > It's hard to tell...but the one picture I saw which revealed a side seam > showed the seam as pretty much straight up and down, placed a little > farther back than the exact side (lowest point in the armscye, that is). > The front and back pieces flared out at the sides. The back appears to be > quite wide, and in some cases made of one piece without a center back > seam. That sort of makes sense, yes, and would fit with most of the pictures of man's coats I saw. > > Pictures are shown of it being worn in the 1560s by lower class women; I'd > say it originated from a multipurpose garment worn by both poorer men and > women. Paintings in the 1570s show a similar garment, but in many cases a > collar has been added and the sleeves are puffed at the top. These jackets > become more widely seen in market paintings than they are during the 1550s > and 1560s. It is also in the 1570s that the long gown, cut like the aforementioned > jacket, begins showing up in Flemish market paintings. Yeah, I also saw some with puffed sleeves and collars, but none with epaulettes, which were common on the upper class ladies' linen jackets. > > I can't pinpoint this jacket's origin, but it is a nifty garment. Really > warm! I've seen paintings where it laces closed, and one painting showing > it buttoning closed. Hooks and eyes are another possibility, though I > haven't seen any definitive proof of this fastening method for Flemish > lower-class jackets before the end of the century. > > Hope this helps, Yes, very much so, thank you! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 20:34:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23925 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 20:34:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29190; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:48:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA09958 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:45:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09948 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 19:45:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA27442 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-88.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.88]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04832 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004401bedee4$970130e0$f801fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: sca-garb list Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 18:48:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" -----Original Message----- From: Merouda the True of Bornover To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 1:33 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: sca-garb list > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > >After reading the attached I couldn't see why anyone would have been upset. I >hope that you got the information you needed! Cynthia > I had read through several responses and by that point, I was wishing that I had never said anything about 'stimulating the list.' I don't know how to 'capture' and copy from numberous posts to copy into one, otherwise I probably would have. Instead, I responded to the last one I saw. I am happy that Carol new who to contact, as I am now subscribed thanks to her. I am amazed by the resourcefulness of the list members! You all are so wonderful! Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 22:56:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA27771 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:56:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13866; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:10:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28373 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:07:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28365 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:07:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p43.directcon.net [206.170.184.142]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA21168 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:06:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 21:06:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908050406.VAA21168@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST:Elizabethan bodice question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I have a question about upper class Elizabethan bodices. I'm specifically interested in the ones with the low square neck, sometimes called "French Bodices". Are there any examples in paintings or other sources which show them NOT matching the upper/overskirt? I've seen doublet style bodices with unmatched skirts, but I don't believe I've ever seen the other style unmatched. Anyone? Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 23:25:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA28662 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 23:25:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16249; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:38:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02413 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:35:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02400 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:35:45 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6NDOa13735 (3954) for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 00:35:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1440de01.24da6e7a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 00:35:06 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST:Elizabethan bodice question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com Just off the cuff, I'd say no. I have all my books packed up for Pennsic (SCA), so I can't get to them at the moment. I can not recall every seeing a French cut bodice (ie the lower squared neck) mis matching the skirt. I think it's as you say..The doublets could vary, but not anything else...I am going to peruse some of the portrait galleries on line and see if I can come up with something. Charles _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 4 23:39:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA28985 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 23:39:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17633; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:52:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04322 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:50:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04314 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 22:50:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-83.radiks.net [206.29.243.85]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA17324 for ; Wed, 4 Aug 1999 23:49:18 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990804234812.03e21308@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 23:48:12 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: Hot, tapes In-Reply-To: <199908041228.GAA03110@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger >Now I'm not certain how much there are, where to get them, or anything >more than that they exist... but rumour has it that there is a little neck >gadjet that puts a cooling element over each jugular, so that it slowly >cools your blood on it's way to your brain and back again. > >They might be frightfully modern looking, BUT, it might be a way to cool >yourself without getting wet. (esp if you are in super fancy stuff) And >rumour has it that they are also pretty small. > Hot: Yes, they are modern looking, but they are pretty small. They come in black and brushed silver. They work like mini air-conditioners, with cool plates that sit on the side of your neck, and a little blower that sends cool air either up or down, depending on which way you wear it. Runs on (IIRC) 4 AA batteries. They are about $49 from Sharper Image (www.sharperimage.com, or something like that). Tapes: We got a roll of the bias to make hoop casings, made (3) 6 foot diameter hoop petticoats (for fantasy, not historical, but gives you an idea), and there is still plenty left. Definitely a good buy! Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 04:33:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA04369 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 04:33:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02740; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 03:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA16205 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 03:44:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (mail2.atl.bellsouth.net [205.152.0.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA16200 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 03:44:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brad (host-209-214-74-154.atl.bellsouth.net [209.214.74.154]) by mail2.atl.bellsouth.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA10673 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 05:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00c101bedf27$2e93a860$0100c8be@brad> From: "Brad Wilson" To: References: <199908040540.BAA12636@smtp.snet.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Preparing for the Pennsic War Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 05:44:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Brad Wilson" > M'lady, if every SCAdian on the SCA-garb is like me, they are all sewing I know this is a bit off-topic, but can some kind person send me the address for the SCA-GARB list ?? Thanks, Ld. Edward de Molay Shire of Tal Mere Meridies _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 06:04:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA06735 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 06:04:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA05938; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 05:17:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA24043 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 05:15:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA24037 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 05:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-199-16.s270.tnt4.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.199.16]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA12230 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 07:15:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001201bedf34$f5b7a7e0$10c77ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <19990804224349.55F58F5197@sight.vcn.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: corrected web address for blackwork Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 07:23:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" > > > Oooh, pretty! Is it an original pattern? > > Liadain > ---------- Actually, it's from "New Stiches" magazine from a couple years ago. You'd be surprised at what you find in cross-stich magazines. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 08:46:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA10599 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:46:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15984; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 07:59:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA12179 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 07:56:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12169 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 07:56:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA12855 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:56:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA10221 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:56:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:56:21 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Elizabethan bodice question In-Reply-To: <199908050406.VAA21168@zeus.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed I've never seen any pictures of french gowns or "straight-bodied gowns" having different skirts from the gown bodice. In all the wardrobe accounts I've read, gowns are mentioned as made basically of one fabric with different decorations. If you do find any evidence of this, I'd be interested in hearing about it. Thanks, Drea On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, Margo Anderson wrote: > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > I have a question about upper class Elizabethan bodices. > > I'm specifically interested in the ones with the low square neck, sometimes > called "French Bodices". Are there any examples in paintings or other > sources which show them NOT matching the upper/overskirt? > > I've seen doublet style bodices with unmatched skirts, but I don't believe > I've ever seen the other style unmatched. Anyone? > > Margo Anderson > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 08:57:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA10905 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:57:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17395; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:11:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA14580 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:09:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from post.its.mcw.edu (post.its.mcw.edu [141.106.32.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14566 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:09:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mschulte@localhost) by post.its.mcw.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id JAA03302 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:02:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Marie Schulte Message-Id: <199908051402.JAA03302@post.its.mcw.edu> Subject: H-COST: California Re-enactors To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:02:56 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: <000b01bede0b$8b7ec4a0$b984bece@sidne> from "Sidne Kneeland" at Aug 3, 99 04:54:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marie Schulte Hi All- I am reading 'Two Years Before the Mast" by ___ ___ Dana. Apparently written in 1840 regarding two years spent on board a merchant ship. I have heard it considered good reading for people who wish to understnad life on board a sailing vessel. At the moment, the narrator is talking about the inhabitants of California, what they wear, buy, trade, and what the towns/villages look like. I just thought the old-California re-enactors might find it interesting. -Marie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 09:04:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA11134 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:04:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18181; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:18:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA15811 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:15:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA15803; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:15:55 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:15:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908051415.IAA15803@net.indra.com> From: lilinah@grin.net To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: sca garb list Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net To reiterate again what Carol has already said before: The SCA Garb list is NO LONGER on coollist. To subscribe, send a message similar to the following: To: listserv@list.uvm.edu From: Your Name Subject: sub sca-garb sub sca-garb Your Name Obviously, well, i hope it's obvious, where it says Your Name you put in your name and where it says you put in your e-mail address. Hope this clears things up for folks. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 09:35:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA11984 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:35:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21892; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:48:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA21725 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:46:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21718 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:46:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FFZ00G7TY2ZRC@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:40:11 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 09:51:55 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Poirpoint of Charles the Bold In-reply-to: <199908051356.HAA12250@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990805095155.007a4140@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson >From: Merouda the True of Bornover >> No, Charles de Blois, a younger son of the house of Chatillon, was married >> to the heiress of Brittany in 1337 and tried to succeed the duke in 1341, >> but this was contested by the English backed John de Montfort, who had >> equal rights to the duchy. He died 1364. Charles the Bold was duke of >> Burgundy 1467-1477. The pourpoint was supposed to be possession of the >> former, but I doubt this. It looks too late 14th c to me. Charles the Bold >> would have worn a qute different pourpoint or doublet. > >I'm confused. Don't you mean that the pourpoint looks to belong to Charles of >Blois because it is 14th century? It certainly isn't 15th century is it? I believe she is saying that the garment is not 15th century, but it is 14th century, and so, of the two, it more likely belongs to Charles of Blois. The final detail, of course, is that the museum that owns it says it was owned by Blois, not "the Bold". Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 09:44:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA12245 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:44:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23092; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:58:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23808 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:56:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23785 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:56:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.14] (ell135.acadia.net [205.217.218.119]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA01809 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:55:50 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:57:01 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: book for sale Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) For sale: "Art in Ornament and Dress", with illustrations (some hand colored) and translated from the French of Charles Blanc New York: Scribner, Welford and Armstrong, 1877. Good condition, ex-library. Email me *off list* for price. First come, first serve. Deborah pulliam@acadia.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 10:12:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA13016 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:12:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26600; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:23:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29417 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:20:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29402 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:20:51 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip112.van15.pacifier.com [216.65.137.112]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id IAA25918 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:20:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908051520.IAA25918@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:24:16 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Poirpoint of Charles the Bold Priority: normal References: <199908051356.HAA12250@net.indra.com> In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.19990805095155.007a4140@pop.utulsa.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > >From: Merouda the True of Bornover > >> No, Charles de Blois, a younger son of the house of Chatillon, was married > >> to the heiress of Brittany in 1337 and tried to succeed the duke in 1341, > >> but this was contested by the English backed John de Montfort, who had > >> equal rights to the duchy. He died 1364. Charles the Bold was duke of > >> Burgundy 1467-1477. The pourpoint was supposed to be possession of the > >> former, but I doubt this. It looks too late 14th c to me. Charles the Bold > >> would have worn a qute different pourpoint or doublet. > > > >I'm confused. Don't you mean that the pourpoint looks to belong to > Charles of > >Blois because it is 14th century? It certainly isn't 15th century is it? > > I believe she is saying that the garment is not 15th century, but it is 14th > century, and so, of the two, it more likely belongs to Charles of Blois. > > The final detail, of course, is that the museum that owns it says it was owned > by Blois, not "the Bold". I think the problem is that we are talking about 2 different garments here. In Kohler there is a coat which says it belongs to "Charles the Bold." It is not a pourpoint at all. The pourpoint is a doublet like garment and there are several photographs of it in various other books, but none in Kohler. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 10:41:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA13916 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:41:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01295; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:55:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06447 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:52:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA06439 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:52:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 08:52:22 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001201bedf34$f5b7a7e0$10c77ad1@pavilion> References: <19990804224349.55F58F5197@sight.vcn.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 08:52:17 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: blackwork Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > >> -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" >> >> >> Oooh, pretty! Is it an original pattern? >> >> Liadain >> ---------- > >Actually, it's from "New Stiches" magazine from a couple years ago. You'd >be surprised at what you find in cross-stich magazines. >Andrea > "New Stitches" is one of the only magazines I've ever seen that consistantly publishes blackwork, and they do wonderful designs! This is the magazine that had blackwork and crosstitch or crewel versions of Henry VIII and all his wives several years ago. That's when I first noticed it. They often have "master classes" on blackwork. Also, following another line of interest on h-costume/h-needlework recently: Since the woman who owns the magazine (name escapes me right now) also owns a working farm, she took the time and space to grow flax (?) to make linen and did the whole job, harvesting, rhetting, spinning, weaving and had a three-part journal of the job. I've managed to lose part two in the house somewhere, but it was quite interesting. I remember how often she mentioned the smell of the process. "New Stitches" is a British needlework magazine and really is quite interesting in the patterns and types of needlework it shows. It covers making designs on and off the computer and historical designs and lots in between. I don't buy it every issue but look for it every time I hit my local Borders Bookstore or Barnes and Noble. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 12:16:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA16492 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:16:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16650; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:29:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA28714 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:26:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28708 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:26:58 -0600 (MDT) From: Simone89@aol.com Received: from Simone89@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6GDPa13741 (3991) for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5fafc76.24db2331@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:26:09 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST:Elizabethan bodice question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Simone89@aol.com On Wed, 4 Aug 1999, Margo Anderson wrote: > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > I have a question about upper class Elizabethan bodices. > > I'm specifically interested in the ones with the low square neck, sometimes > called "French Bodices". Are there any examples in paintings or other > sources which show them NOT matching the upper/overskirt? > > I've seen doublet style bodices with unmatched skirts, but I don't believe > I've ever seen the other style unmatched. Anyone? > There is actually a beautiful portrait of a red and white gown. White bodice / red velvet skirt with spiderwebs embroidered on it. I think it's tremendous..... One of the few I've seen. Simone _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 12:32:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17003 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:32:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18574; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:43:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02171 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:41:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02161 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:41:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03904 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:41:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp189-157.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.157]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA14881 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:41:39 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199908051741.TAA14881@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Poirpoint of Charles the Bold Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:44:29 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, > Cynthia wrote: > I'm confused. Don't you mean that the pourpoint looks to belong to Charles of > Blois because it is 14th century? It certainly isn't 15th century is it? > What I meant was that the pourpoint said to be of Charles of Blois, died 1364, looks to me to be of ca 1380-90 so it could not have been his. The confusion about the coat said to be of Charles the Bold has already led to a later date in a book about the Burgundian Loot form 1963. It is supposed to be from ca 1480-90 and then can't have belonged to Charles the Bold who died at Nancy in 1477. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 12:44:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17294 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:44:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20278; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:57:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA04786 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:53:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04778 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:53:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA22825 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:54:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37A9D003.1660E009@serv.net> Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 10:55:16 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Poirpoint of Charles the Bold References: <199908051741.TAA14881@worldonline.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > > > I'm confused. Don't you mean that the pourpoint looks to belong to > > Charles of Blois because it is 14th century? It certainly isn't 15th > century is it? > > What I meant was that the pourpoint said to be of Charles of Blois, died > 1364, looks to me to be of ca 1380-90 so it could not have been his. Oh! So, it's a good pourpoint example for 1380-1390 we just can't claim we know original ownership. *nod* Okay. > The confusion about the coat said to be of Charles the Bold has already led > to a later date in a book about the Burgundian Loot form 1963. It is > supposed to be from ca 1480-90 and then can't have belonged to Charles the > Bold who died at Nancy in 1477. I was under the impression that circa meant give or take a couple years or approxiamtely. So, hey if they made it for him right before his death, couldn't it still qualify? I know that in the 14th century, especially the mid part of the century, clothing styles were changing so rapidly that you can narrow a garment down to a decade. Was this also true for late 15th century? Thanks, Cynthia > > > Henk > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 12:53:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA17610 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:53:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21561; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:06:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06593 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:02:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06583 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:02:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p5.directcon.net [206.170.184.104]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA23791 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:01:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:01:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908051801.LAA23791@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST:Elizabethan bodice question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson A>> called "French Bodices". Are there any examples in paintings or other >> sources which show them NOT matching the upper/overskirt? >> >> I've seen doublet style bodices with unmatched skirts, but I don't believe >> I've ever seen the other style unmatched. Anyone? >> > >There is actually a beautiful portrait of a red and white gown. White bodice >/ red velvet skirt with spiderwebs embroidered on it. Is that the Gherharts "Portrait of An Unknown Lady' on pg 88 of QE's Wardrobe? The date is given as 1605-10, which is Jacobean, not Elizabethan. Unmatched bodice skirt combinations did seem to start to be popular then, which we could theorize came from the new Queen plundering QE's stock and having things remade in various combinations. I drool for the spiderweb skirt, though. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 13:46:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA19099 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:45:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01207; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:59:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18154 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:56:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18143 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:56:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09007 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-76.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.76]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA08780 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000b01bedf74$a0c332a0$c9dbfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST:Elizabethan bodice question Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:59:19 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" There is a portrait of Queen Marguerite as a girl. C 1560 (Possibly a little bit earlier than what you are looking for but...I hope it helps!) http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/period.styles/costumes/images/elizabthan.women/ cm11.jpg This is a beautiful portrait, unfortunately, only from the waist up. Even though she is to be a queen and she is wearing lots of jewelery to show her station, her sleeves don't match. I know you asked about the skirt and bodice matching but considering the cost and also how rare fabric was supposed to be at that time, it leads me to believe that we are too stuck on making everything match. Also, portraits were done in their 'finest' clothing and the artist could have been pressed to represent it as a perfectly matched color. If I were you and I found a pretty unmatched combination, I would go for it! Michelle -----Original Message----- From: Margo Anderson To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 10:56 AM Subject: Re: H-COST:Elizabethan bodice question > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >A>> called "French Bodices". Are there any examples in paintings or other >>> sources which show them NOT matching the upper/overskirt? >>> >>> I've seen doublet style bodices with unmatched skirts, but I don't believe >>> I've ever seen the other style unmatched. Anyone? >>> >> >>There is actually a beautiful portrait of a red and white gown. White bodice >>/ red velvet skirt with spiderwebs embroidered on it. > >Is that the Gherharts "Portrait of An Unknown Lady' on pg 88 of QE's >Wardrobe? The date is given as 1605-10, which is Jacobean, not Elizabethan. >Unmatched bodice skirt combinations did seem to start to be popular then, >which we could theorize came from the new Queen plundering QE's stock and >having things remade in various combinations. > > I drool for the spiderweb skirt, though. > >Margo > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 14:03:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA19700 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:03:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03747; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:16:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21642 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:14:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21608 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.199]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:13:40 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Elizabethan bodice question Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 19:08:20 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37abe0e1.273520629@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <000b01bedf74$a0c332a0$c9dbfea9@gunsafes> In-Reply-To: <000b01bedf74$a0c332a0$c9dbfea9@gunsafes> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA21611 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Thu, 5 Aug 1999 11:59:19 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Michelle" > > There is a portrait of Queen Marguerite as a girl. C 1560 (Possibly a >little bit earlier than what you are looking for but...I hope it helps!) >http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/period.styles/costumes/images/elizabthan.women/ >cm11.jpg >This is a beautiful portrait, unfortunately, only from the waist up. Even >though she is to be a queen and she is wearing lots of jewelery to show her >station, her sleeves don't match. > I know you asked about the skirt and bodice matching but considering >the cost and also how rare fabric was supposed to be at that time, it leads >me to believe that we are too stuck on making everything match. Also, >portraits were done in their 'finest' clothing and the artist could have >been pressed to represent it as a perfectly matched color. > If I were you and I found a pretty unmatched combination, I would go for >it! > Michelle If you have troube getting to this (I did) try this link: http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/text/Elizabethan.Women/CM11.html the server spat me back out and I had to backtrack to the root and wander around until I found it. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 14:22:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20379 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:22:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06406; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:35:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25124 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:32:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24016 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p5.directcon.net [206.170.184.104]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA02230 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 12:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908051924.MAA02230@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST:Elizabethan bodice question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:59 AM 8/5/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Michelle" > > There is a portrait of Queen Marguerite as a girl. C 1560 (Possibly a >little bit earlier than what you are looking for but...I hope it helps!) >http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/period.styles/costumes/images/elizabthan.women/ >cm11.jpg >This is a beautiful portrait, unfortunately, only from the waist up. Even >though she is to be a queen and she is wearing lots of jewelery to show her >station, her sleeves don't match. Sleeves not matching is quite common. that's because sleeves were considered to be a separate garment. I believe that the bodice and skirt were usually sewn together, making a dress, and as such the aesthetic was for matching fabric. In fact, the whole idea of non-matching bodice and skirts, even for the lower orders, is looking less and less common the more research I do. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 14:27:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20491 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:27:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07092; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:40:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA26326 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:38:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26314 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:38:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costume (207-172-244-194.s194.tnt4.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.244.194]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id PAA23785; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:38:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000101bedf79$d6a49620$c2f4accf@costume> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-needlework" Subject: H-COST: Winter Events @ Williamsburg Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:36:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I just received information about three winter events at Williamsburg, VA: Event 1: Williamsburg Festival Week (a must-do every year) Feb. 24-27, 2000 webpage: http://www.quiltfest.com/wfw/wfwhome.htm Four areas of Specialties: A. Mid-Atlantic Quilt Festival B. Mid-Atlantic Wearable Art Festival C. Mid-Atlantic Fiber Arts Fair D. Vintage Fashion & Accessories Show Event 2. 18th Century Clothing: Revealing Fashions @ Colonial Williamsburg, Jan. 9-11, 2000 For a brochure call: 757-220-7182 or email: tengle@cwf.org Lectures: A. Connoisseurship: The Art and Mystery of Clothing B. A short gown, an apron, and a hat: English Dress in the 18th Century C. Clothing Then and Now: 18th Century Styles and Modern Bodies D. Dressed for the Wall: Costume in Colonial Portraits E. Costume Close-Up: An Inside Look F. Clues in Cloth: Conservation of Historic Costume G. Slips and Sprigs: Clothing Children during the 18th Century H. Short Gowns, Bedgowns, and Jackets, 1750-1800: A Survey of Current Knowledge Event 3. Textile Art Studies at Colonial Williamsburg Jan. 12-15, 2000 For a brochure call: 757-220-7182 or email: tengle@cwf.org Classes and Lectures: A. Behind the Scenes in the Textile Collection with Linda Baumgarten and Kim Ivey B. Decorative Fringe I: Introducing the Finishing Touch for 18th Century Apparel (workshop) C. Ann Holewll Sampler (two sessions) D. Constructing an 18th Century Infant's Gown (workshop) E. Feet of Ingenuity: Calcealogy, An Old Science (workshop) F. Sarah Leonard's Wedding Pocket G. Suit Coats behind the Seams: Studying Pattern and Materials (workshop) H. Caring for Costume and Accessories I. Tasselmaking Workshop: Introducing Passementerie (workshop) J. Making a Gown in the 18th Century Manner (workshop) K. 18th Century Pinball (workshop) L. Coloring Needlework Yarns with 18th Century Dyes (workshop) M. Sew On and Sew Forth (workshop) N. Decorative Fringe II: More Finishing Touches for 18th Century Apparel (workshop) O. Keeping It Covered: Hats for Fashionable Women and Men P. Introduction to wigmaking: Weaving Hair on a Tress Loom Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com Later... Penny Ladnier The Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 14:43:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20977 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:43:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09276; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:56:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA29497 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:54:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29450 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:54:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FG0001D5CBQOS@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:47:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 14:59:35 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Poirpoint of Charles the Bold In-reply-to: <199908051932.NAA25178@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990805145935.007b02c0@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson >From: kat@grendal.rain.com >I think the problem is that we are talking about 2 different garments >here. In Kohler there is a coat which says it belongs to "Charles the >Bold." It is not a pourpoint at all. The pourpoint is a doublet like >garment and there are several photographs of it in various other >books, but none in Kohler. The Pourpoint of Charles of Blois resembles, although not in any great detail fig. 196 in Kohler, while the "Coat of Charles the Bold" is fig. 199. >From: "Henk 't Jong" >What I meant was that the pourpoint said to be of Charles of Blois, died >1364, looks to me to be of ca 1380-90 so it could not have been his. > >The confusion about the coat said to be of Charles the Bold has already led >to a later date in a book about the Burgundian Loot form 1963. It is >supposed to be from ca 1480-90 and then can't have belonged to Charles the >Bold who died at Nancy in 1477. Ah, interesting. >From: Merouda the True of Bornover >Oh! So, it's a good pourpoint example for 1380-1390 we just can't claim we >know original ownership. *nod* Okay. I think the *pourpoint*'s original owner is not in doubt (at the moment), it's the *coat*'s original owner that's in question. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 15:07:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA21653 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:07:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12143; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:17:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA04086 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:15:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03960 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:14:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [38.30.214.245] (ip245.washington13.dc.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.214.245]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA20669; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908052014.NAA20669@swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Subject: H-COST: Victorian Tear Catcher Date: Thu, 5 Aug 99 16:19:59 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: "Historic Costume" , "VICTORIA 19th-Century British Culture & Society" , "DC Costume List" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dear Collective Wisdom: Am trying to find any reference that I can follow up on re: Victorian Tear Catcher or also called Widow's Tear Catcher. Some have suggested that it appeared during the US Civil War. The tear chatcher is usually glass, @ 4" long with stopper, slim rectangle in shape. Thanks in advance for any help! Margo King, Washington Antiques Show _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 15:38:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22525 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:38:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16993; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:51:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12095 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:49:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12087 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:48:58 -0600 (MDT) From: Simone89@aol.com Received: from Simone89@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ZAQa22756 (4316) for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:48:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <17aa3dbb.24db5296@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:48:22 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST:Elizabethan bodice question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Simone89@aol.com In a message dated 8/5/1999 2:04:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << -Poster: Margo Anderson A>> called "French Bodices". Are there any examples in paintings or other >> sources which show them NOT matching the upper/overskirt? >> >> I've seen doublet style bodices with unmatched skirts, but I don't believe >> I've ever seen the other style unmatched. Anyone? >> > >There is actually a beautiful portrait of a red and white gown. White bodice >/ red velvet skirt with spiderwebs embroidered on it. Is that the Gherharts "Portrait of An Unknown Lady' on pg 88 of QE's Wardrobe? The date is given as 1605-10, which is Jacobean, not Elizabethan. Unmatched bodice skirt combinations did seem to start to be popular then, which we could theorize came from the new Queen plundering QE's stock and having things remade in various combinations. I drool for the spiderweb skirt, though. Margo >> I tend to think that fashion doesn't suddenly appear in a formal portrait. It makes sense to me that as people recycle clothing items that look good together but don't necessarily match would have been worn. Especially embroidered pieces. I think it may even have occurred more at the middle class level, as women passed down clothing to their daughters or nieces. Someone had to have decided they didn't care if it matched because it looked striking! What are y'alls thoughts on this? Simone _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 15:40:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA22654 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:40:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17235; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:53:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12828 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:51:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (firewall-user@fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12809 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:51:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id VAA11482; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by net.indra.com, id smtpd011477; Thu Aug 5 21:56:16 1999 Received: by cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:54:14 -0700 Message-ID: From: Betsy Perry To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Article on "swing lifestyle" in SF Weekly Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 13:54:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Betsy Perry http://www.sfweekly.com/1999/current/feature1-1.html is a very pleasant article about San Franciscans who enjoy wearing '30s and '40s clothes all the time, not just at dances. --- Elizabeth Hanes Perry Rogue Wave Software _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 16:17:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA23614 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:17:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21683; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22170 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:27:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1206.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA22159 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:27:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990805212508.1776.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.183.151.69] by web1206.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 14:25:08 PDT Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:25:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Davidson Subject: H-COST: For the list.... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Davidson I'm inquiring if anyone knows of a source, preferrably on-line, on 15-16th century Spanish clothing. I've been searching for days with no luck. I would appreciate any leads. Lady Zy _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 17:20:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA25296 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:20:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29992; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:33:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA06256 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:30:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06251 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:30:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p35.directcon.net [206.170.184.84]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA12308 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:30:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:30:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908052230.PAA12308@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Article on "swing lifestyle" in SF Weekly Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Thanks for posting this. I especially enjoyed it because Sara Klotz De Aguilar, featured in the article, is my sister. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 17:46:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA26082 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:46:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03153; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:59:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11916 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:57:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11879 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:57:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05188 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:57:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-164.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.164]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA10600 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:57:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001001bedf96$36d88300$7905fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "costume list" Subject: H-COST: revolution dress Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:59:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEDF5B.896EA3A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEDF5B.896EA3A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A big warm hug to everyone that helped me locate the pattern I wanted. = Lacis turned out to be great. I called them and ordered the pattern = from them on the 3rd and got it today, the 5th. Amazing service, unlike = that of AlterYears. Every time I have ordered from them it has taked = them 2 to 4 months to get my order to me. You will probably hear more from me when I try to make it, = hopefully, none will be curse words. :) Michelle ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEDF5B.896EA3A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
A big warm hug to everyone that = helped me locate=20 the pattern I wanted.  Lacis turned out to be great.  I called = them=20 and ordered the pattern from them on the 3rd and got it today, the = 5th. =20 Amazing service, unlike that of AlterYears.  Every time I have = ordered from=20 them it has taked them 2 to 4 months to get my order to me.
    You will probably = hear more=20 from me when I try to make it, hopefully, none will be curse words.=20 :)
 
        =20 Michelle
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BEDF5B.896EA3A0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 17:49:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA26122 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:49:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03459; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:01:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA12279 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:59:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12271 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:59:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA06552 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:59:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-164.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.164]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA12289 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:59:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001a01bedf96$90a56740$7905fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST:Elizabethan bodice question Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:02:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Oops! Thank you Margery ->If you have troube getting to this (I did) try this link: > >http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/text/Elizabethan.Women/ CM11.html > >the server spat me back out and I had to backtrack to the root and >wander around until I found it. > >Margery >"Do you have any files?" >"We're the government, of course we have files." >Millenium >{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 17:55:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA26332 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:55:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04781; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:07:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14247 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:05:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14232 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:05:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09855 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:05:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-164.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.164]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA16357 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002d01bedf97$6b78fee0$7905fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Article on "swing lifestyle" in SF Weekly Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:08:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Looks like a lot of fun. I can't get over the tattoo part though. I can see penciling in your seams but tattooing? Ouch! Michelle -----Original Message----- From: Betsy Perry To: 'h-costume@indra.com' Date: Thursday, August 05, 1999 1:44 PM Subject: H-COST: Article on "swing lifestyle" in SF Weekly > >-Poster: Betsy Perry > >http://www.sfweekly.com/1999/current/feature1-1.html > >is a very pleasant article about San Franciscans who enjoy wearing '30s and >'40s clothes all the time, not just at dances. > >--- >Elizabeth Hanes Perry >Rogue Wave Software > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 18:49:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA27698 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 18:49:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11613; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 18:02:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA23818 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:59:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23803 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:59:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.222 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 16:59:14 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: revolution dress Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:06:21 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bedf9f$bb38ab80$de0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEDF7E.34270B80" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <001001bedf96$36d88300$7905fea9@gunsafes> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEDF7E.34270B80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If you have any questions about details, there is a similar gown shown in Nancy Bradfield's *Costume in Detail* on page 73-74 showing how the front closes, the horizontal waistline is achieved with the "apron skirt." This gown is not a travelling costume, however, as it is a print material with trailing flower sprays in dark red, blue, and green on a pink background. Tiny red pin dots and tiny yellow diamonds are also in the background, although the yellow has been run over with a blue pencil to yield green. This has an 8" train (no ruffle like Sally's). No caraco-like vestigial skirt above the back skirt. Sleeves ending below the elbow darted into a narrow band (no engagements). Somewhat lower cut over the bosom. Frustratingly, the thingys which close the bodice front in a hidden manner are not identified or shown. Someone at Tidy's Symposium had a similar bodice that met edge to edge and she said it was *sewn* closed every time it was worn! I would think hooks and eyes would do. The closure method is meant to be invisible anyway! Bradfield says worn with 1 - 3/4" French heeled shoes (my contemporary term, not hers), mob cap, and kercheif over the bosom. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Michelle Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 7:00 PM To: costume list Subject: H-COST: revolution dress A big warm hug to everyone that helped me locate the pattern I wanted. Lacis turned out to be great. I called them and ordered the pattern from them on the 3rd and got it today, the 5th. Amazing service, unlike that of AlterYears. Every time I have ordered from them it has taked them 2 to 4 months to get my order to me. You will probably hear more from me when I try to make it, hopefully, none will be curse words. :) Michelle ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEDF7E.34270B80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you=20 have any questions about details, there is a similar gown shown in Nancy = Bradfield's Costume in Detail on page 73-74 showing how the front = closes, the=20 horizontal waistline is achieved
 

 

 
-----Original Message-----
From: = owner-h-costume@indra.com=20 [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of=20 Michelle
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 7:00 = PM
To:=20 costume list
Subject: H-COST: revolution=20 dress

A big warm hug to everyone that = helped me=20 locate the pattern I wanted.  Lacis turned out to be = great.  I=20 called them and ordered the pattern from them on the 3rd and got it = today,=20 the 5th.  Amazing service, unlike that of AlterYears.  = Every time=20 I have ordered from them it has taked them 2 to 4 months to get my = order to=20 me.
    You will = probably hear=20 more from me when I try to make it, hopefully, none will be curse = words.=20 :)
 
        =20 Michelle
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BEDF7E.34270B80-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 20:11:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA30079 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:11:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19372; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:24:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04809 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:21:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web1105.mail.yahoo.com (web1105.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.125]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA04801 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:20:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990806012107.27129.rocketmail@web1105.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [38.226.171.41] by web1105.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 18:21:07 PDT Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 18:21:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell Subject: Re: H-COST: sca garb list To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carol Mitchell --- lilinah@grin.net wrote: > > -Poster: lilinah@grin.net > > To reiterate again what Carol has already said > before: > The SCA Garb list is NO LONGER on coollist. > I followed the current rules. I got a message saying I was subscribed. I never got any messages from the list. Caroline === Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 20:29:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA30485 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:29:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21479; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:42:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA07339 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:40:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07329 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:40:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990806014005.GCRW410.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a> for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 18:40:05 -0700 Message-ID: <00ba01bedfaa$f295f1e0$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: References: Subject: H-COST: Grommets WAS Re: sca garb list Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:28:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" Though I haven't gotten to adding them to the website, I've brass grommets with washers for $4.00 per gross. If I can help you please let me know. ~Kyna GranndGarb ----- Original Message ----- From: Carol J. Bell Cannon To: Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 6:01 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: sca garb list > > -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > At 01:53 PM 8/4/99 -0700, you wrote: When I got my mail today, I couldn't > figure > out why I had so much. I started going through all my mail and a lot of them > were about the post I made regarding the sca list. I posted an apology for > stirring things up. > However, once I got through about 15 of the 50 some-odd posts, I got to one > from the list manager from the sca list. Carol, I don't know how you did it > but, thank you! Wow! > Simply--I wrote the Listmistress who handsubscribed you. She is > very good about keeping on top of problems once she is informed of them. What > one does not know of, one cannot fix. As for me, I consider it part of the > ideals of the Society for Creative Anachronism to lend my aid when/as I may. > It is my pleasure and my duty to do so. > Does anyone have a source for grommets? I was buying them by the gross in > small brown boxes (don't know the company name off hand, but I called them and > they don't do private orders) from Orchard Supply. They either aren't > carrying > them anymore or just not keeping them in stock. I have enough now but don't > want to be in a panic again next time I need another box. -- Michelle > > This was posted to h-costume &/or SCA-Garb sometime previously, I believe: > aleed wrote: > > Of all the grommets I've tried, the OO size from Greenberg & Hammer are > > the best for me. Not only are they cheaper than anywhere else ($5 per > > gross), but they're also made of brass rather than, well, whatever Dritz > > grommets are made of. Harder to pound in, but much smoother & flat when > > finished. > G&H's 800 number: 1 800 955 5135. Their new catalog won't be out for a > couple more months (I'm now on the mailing list). > Description re the store: > http://www.teasociety.com/victorian/reviews/greenberg.html -- Little Bird > > > Carol / Gr/ainne > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 20:33:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA30664 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:33:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22014; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:45:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA07763 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:43:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1101.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.121]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA07758 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:43:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990806014331.29648.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [38.226.171.41] by web1101.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 05 Aug 1999 18:43:31 PDT Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 18:43:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell Subject: Re: H-COST: Preparing for the Pennsic War To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carol Mitchell Should we try and stimulate them? > > Michelle > >---- Looks like it was successful! Thanks Caroline === Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 21:46:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA32610 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:46:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00350; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:59:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA17117 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:56:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17102 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:56:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.72 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 19:56:23 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: Spanish Dress Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 23:03:01 -0400 Message-ID: <000201bedfb8$7b644d20$f30bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <19990805212508.1776.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Juan de Alcega's pattern book will have the pattern shapes and suggested layout on cloth. Do a Web search for it. I think it's in print, and not too much $. Pieces of it are everywhere -- in other books and on the Web. Nora Waugh's book, *Corsets and Crinolines* talks about the Spanish farthingale a little. Use your survey history book and art history book covering your time period to identify nobility and painters. Then do Web searches for them too. The best search engine for the people is probably the consortium of smaller search engines at http://www.metacrawler.com. Try http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/ and http://sunsite.unc.edu/wm/paint/auth/ for the painters, location, and time period. Elizabeth de Valois of France married Phillip II of Spain in 1560. There's at least one good portrait, probably many, of her dressed in the Spanish fashion. Use her name in the search engines. Someone on this list found a book covering this subject nicely. I don't have the URL for the archives, but if you're willing to search for the book via ILL, there is a pretty good one available--one. All for now...... Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Dawn Davidson > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 5:25 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: For the list.... > > > > -Poster: Dawn Davidson > > I'm inquiring if anyone knows of a source, preferrably on-line, on > 15-16th century Spanish clothing. I've been searching for days with no > luck. I would appreciate any leads. > > Lady Zy > > ____________________________________________________________ _ > Do You Yahoo!? > Free instant messaging and more at http://messenger.yahoo.com > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 22:13:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA00653 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 22:13:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04240; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:27:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20753 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:25:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20743 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p23.directcon.net [206.170.184.122]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA12728 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908060324.UAA12728@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: H-COST: revolution dress Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Tiny red pin dots and tiny yellow diamonds >are also in the background, although the yellow has been run >over with a blue pencil to yield green WHAT? You mean someone actually colored in every little tiny diamond in the print on the entire dress? Sheesh, and I thought I was a detail person... Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 5 22:39:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA01262 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 22:39:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06807; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:52:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA23950 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:50:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23944 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:50:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.212 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 20:49:50 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: revolution dress Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 23:57:09 -0400 Message-ID: <000501bedfbf$efaa1000$f30bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199908060324.UAA12728@zeus.directcon.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Must have rally had something against yellow, that one! Someday someone with study manicurists pattern books of the 1990's and say the same thing, "Yeeesh!" That particular dress was remade sometime in the early 1790's. The original dress and the fabric is older, perhaps back to 1780 even. Now if I had to wear the same dress that long, I might whip out my colored pencils in desperation too, just to make it a little new. We are talking serious desperation here. The dress was for a short, stout lady--I surmise older-- judging by the soft rounded shape of it--and well, elderly women do tend to wear out their clothes. Reading about the fabrics in Nancy Bradfield's *Costume in Detail,* such was not so unusual. Bradfield comments about a print where the owner or dressmaker ran a squiggle with a paintbrush between printed flowers. You can almost see Bradfield sneering, as she comments on how irregularly executed it was, and wondered what the history of the garment was that this "dreck," of all that existed, was saved. On another fabric, the hand-painted design was very tightly spaced in some areas of a dress, then wobbly and loosely spaced in other areas on the same dress. More of the same. Surprising amount of carelessness. The urge for self-expression without a professional capability or something. Hope > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Margo Anderson > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 11:25 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: RE: H-COST: revolution dress > > > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > Tiny red pin dots and tiny yellow diamonds > >are also in the background, although the yellow has been run > >over with a blue pencil to yield green > > WHAT? You mean someone actually colored in every little tiny > diamond in the > print on the entire dress? Sheesh, and I thought I was a > detail person... > > Margo > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 6 00:02:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA03532 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 00:02:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14296; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 23:14:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA04055 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 23:11:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04047 for ; Thu, 5 Aug 1999 23:11:22 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6BDHa22755 (3860) for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 01:10:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6455fc58.24dbc856@aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 01:10:46 EDT Subject: H-COST: Button press forms To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com Hello again list: My sister-in-law is still looking for her button "moulds" but it turns out they are forms for a covered button machine. She's tried Greenberg & Hammer at my suggestion. This is the info she's got, has anyone out there heard of this machine and subsequently a source for the forms to cover? <> angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "O, what a world of vile ill-favored faults looks handsome in three hundred pounds a year!..." W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 6 04:44:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA11322 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 04:44:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA29547; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 03:58:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA16174 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 03:55:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA16162 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 03:55:53 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6DETa22962 (4257) for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 05:55:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7878537d.24dc0b1c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 05:55:40 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: revolution dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 08/05/1999 11:25:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << WHAT? You mean someone actually colored in every little tiny diamond in the print on the entire dress? Sheesh, and I thought I was a detail person... >> Once on a stage show I designed, a pale blue polka dot just wasn't showing up under stage lights so I took a darker blue marker and.....that's right, "dotted" the whole dress. Also at Yale [I was visiting] I made, at the designer's request, a brown herringbone man's 3 pc suit a brown with dark brown stripes 3 piece suit. Ahhhhh...the magic marker.... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 6 05:49:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA12950 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 05:49:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02270; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 05:01:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA21064 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 04:58:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21059 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 04:58:42 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6PFOa07549 (4453) for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 06:58:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 06:58:10 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: revolution dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com "Pencil blue" was not done at home, folks. This was added after the basic block printing (or very rarely, copperplate engraving, was done.) The only way to get green was to do indigo blue over yellow, and the technology to block print with indigo did not exist. Blue prints were possible by painting a resist over everything one did not want blue, and then dying in indigo, but this obviously was not practical if only small bits of blue (or green) were wanted. A development in the use of indigo did allow it to be brushed (or "penciled") on, but the work had to be done very quickly. Therefore, you often see pretty sloppy bits of green or blue on these early prints. If you want to know more, read up on indigo and other vat dyes. It's too complicated for me to go into here. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 6 05:53:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA13141 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 05:53:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02643; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 05:07:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA21638 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 05:05:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21633 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 05:05:17 -0600 (MDT) From: BarbMVD@aol.com Received: from BarbMVD@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6REFa13735 (4533) for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 07:04:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 07:04:39 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: revolution dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: BarbMVD@aol.com << yellow has been run over with a blue pencil to yield green >> When the term "pencil" is used it refers to addition of color by brush. Barbara Delorey List Manager: 18cWoman@onelist.com DAR/Reenactors: http://hometown.aol.com/barbmvd/page/dar.htm Battle Road Clothing: http://www.ziplink.net/~mrkmcc/delory.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 6 09:07:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA18471 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:07:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16086; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:21:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA14119 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:18:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spdmgaab.compuserve.com (ds-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.206.135]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14110 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:18:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id KAA02477 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:17:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:17:38 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Flamenco Costumes source To: LIST historic costume Message-ID: <199908061018_MC2-8001-BA49@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id IAA14113 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson If anyone wants to splash out I found a great Flamenco shop in Spain the other day Lunares y Volantes, Trajes de Flamencas, Campero y Complementos. Avda Conde San Insidro, 9 Telefono 47 42 13 Fuengirola, Spain Also in Serville. No address sorry. No email or web page either sorry again ! Will fit to you and prices start from 50 pounds (UK) , do haggle they often come down. Also great combs etc etc Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 6 09:43:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA19691 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:43:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20887; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:56:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA21905 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:54:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21888 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 08:54:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.96 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 07:54:08 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: revolution dress Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 10:21:26 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bee01c$bb834140$600bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" This particular print was copperplate, I believe, not block printing, as evidenced by the fineness of the lines and most importantly the pin-prick size dots in the background of the pattern. Bradfield says the selvedge indicated English domestic goods. Hope > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of AnnBWass@aol.com > Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 6:58 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: revolution dress > > > > -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com > > "Pencil blue" was not done at home, folks. This was added > after the basic > block printing (or very rarely, copperplate engraving, was > done.) The only > way to get green was to do indigo blue over yellow, and the > technology to > block print with indigo did not exist. Blue prints were > possible by painting > a resist over everything one did not want blue, and then > dying in indigo, but > this obviously was not practical if only small bits of blue > (or green) were > wanted. A development in the use of indigo did allow it to > be brushed (or > "penciled") on, but the work had to be done very quickly. > Therefore, you > often see pretty sloppy bits of green or blue on these early prints. > If you want to know more, read up on indigo and other vat > dyes. It's too > complicated for me to go into here. > Ann Wass > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 6 12:47:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA24647 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 12:47:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16811; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 12:01:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02321 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:58:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02300 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:58:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA26423 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 19:58:09 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp189-132.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.132]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07068 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 19:58:06 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199908061758.TAA07068@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: book--off topic Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 19:56:41 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Dear Susan, You wrote: > This is such well-read and er, *eclectic* group, > I hope someone can help me remember the name of > a book. It's an historical novel I read in the > early 60's so god knows when it was published. > > I *thought* it was called "Road to Byzantium" > but I can find no such title in the databases. > > It opens with the burning of Joan of Arc in Rouen, > when our hero was a child. When he grew up, he > was sent by his merchant employer on business > trips which ended up with him in the city of > Byzantium (not Constantinople, as I recall). > His guardian/body guard/manservant is a Turk > who converted to Christianity during a Crusade. > (something like that anyway) > > Many marvelous contrasts are drawn between the > unhygienic and primitive Europeans and the > civilized (and clean) "easterners". > > I don't remember any specific costume references > (except references to silk, lots of silk) but it > had a tremendous impact on me and helped form > my interest in the 'mysterious east'. I have been pondering your question for some time. The description rang a very vague bell, but I can't for the life of me remember if I've read it or if it sounds like a book I read which had some similar storyline. I remember a novel about a westerner during the crusades (12-13th c) who travelled east and was educated as a doctor in Arabia or Persia or something. The thing is: I've been reading historical novels (especially about the middle ages, of course) for so long now (ca 40 years) that I can't remember plots clearly anymore. A lot of them were pretty much alike, especially the not so good ones ;-). I'm afraid I can't help you, Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 6 13:40:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA26095 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:40:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23980; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 12:53:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA12723 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 12:50:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12714 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 12:50:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.44 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 11:50:24 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: book--off topic Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 14:58:36 -0400 Message-ID: <000601bee03d$bfea9000$600bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199908061758.TAA07068@worldonline.nl> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Henk, Tell us your favorites, please. Any appropriate to read to a 10-year-old who likes a good adventure story? (We sneak in history and culture under the guise of seamanship, horsemanship, and warfare here.) Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Henk 't Jong > Sent: Friday, August 06, 1999 1:57 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: book--off topic > > > > -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" > > Henk & Pauline 't Jong > tScapreel > Medieval Advisors > Dordrecht, Netherlands > > Dear Susan, > > You wrote: > > This is such well-read and er, *eclectic* group, > > I hope someone can help me remember the name of > > a book. It's an historical novel I read in the > > early 60's so god knows when it was published. > > > > I *thought* it was called "Road to Byzantium" > > but I can find no such title in the databases. > > > > It opens with the burning of Joan of Arc in Rouen, > > when our hero was a child. When he grew up, he > > was sent by his merchant employer on business > > trips which ended up with him in the city of > > Byzantium (not Constantinople, as I recall). > > His guardian/body guard/manservant is a Turk > > who converted to Christianity during a Crusade. > > (something like that anyway) > > > > Many marvelous contrasts are drawn between the > > unhygienic and primitive Europeans and the > > civilized (and clean) "easterners". > > > > I don't remember any specific costume references > > (except references to silk, lots of silk) but it > > had a tremendous impact on me and helped form > > my interest in the 'mysterious east'. > > I have been pondering your question for some time. The > description rang a > very vague bell, but I can't for the life of me remember if > I've read it or > if it sounds like a book I read which had some similar storyline. I > remember a novel about a westerner during the crusades (12-13th c) who > travelled east and was educated as a doctor in Arabia or Persia or > something. The thing is: I've been reading historical novels > (especially > about the middle ages, of course) for so long now (ca 40 years) that I > can't remember plots clearly anymore. A lot of them were > pretty much alike, > especially the not so good ones ;-). > > I'm afraid I can't help you, > > Henk > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 6 14:27:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA27357 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 14:27:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29966; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:39:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21752 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:36:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20898; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 13:33:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costume (207-172-63-38.s38.tnt3.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.63.38]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id PAA17822; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 15:32:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000101bee042$239e68c0$263faccf@costume> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: New LHJ added Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 15:30:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Many thanks to everyone who helped me with the keywords for feathers. We now have another issue of Ladies Home Journal, April 1894, complete with all its fashion related articles online. You may find it at: http://www.costumegallery.com/LHJ/April_1894/Magazine.htm The articles this issue are: ***The Art of Dressing for Visiting (this is a really interesting article) ***The Use and Care of Feathers ***Black and White Costumes ***The Indispensable Apron (includes sections for different ladies' occupations and descriptions of the aprons) ***Hints on Home Dressmaking ***The Small Belongings of Dress For those of you who enter our website through our Online Library, http://www.costumegallery.com/research.htm I have made a book link for each of our Vintage Publications. I hope this makes it easier to navigate. Thanks again for your help! Later... Penny The Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 6 15:50:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA29735 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 15:50:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10512; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 15:03:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA08395 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 15:00:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08386 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 15:00:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (user-2ivehgl.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.70.21]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA29113 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:00:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <014901bee04f$454d88e0$1546f7a5@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: corrected web address for blackwork Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:04:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" I cannot get to this address. I keep getting a 404 error. Anyone else having problems? >Sorry, that address I sent earlier was wrong. Here's that close up of the >blackwork on the chemise collar. > http://martin.dc.usweb.com/dree/album/images/p0000333a.jpg > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 6 18:07:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00586 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:07:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27967; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:16:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05549 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:13:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05538 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:13:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-231-215.s469.tnt7.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [216.164.231.215]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id SAA29331 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:19:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000601bee05a$f5670340$d7e7a4d8@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <014901bee04f$454d88e0$1546f7a5@pavilion> Subject: Re: H-COST: corrected web address for blackwork Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:28:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > -Poster: "Megan McHugh" > > I cannot get to this address. I keep getting a 404 error. Anyone else > having problems? My husband was messing with the server and lost most of both our websites. He says the site will be up by close of business on Monday, but that's assuming he doesn't have much else to work on. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 6 18:07:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA00592 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:07:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27970; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:16:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05685 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:14:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1103.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.123]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA05676 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:14:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990806231451.14420.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [38.226.171.40] by web1103.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 06 Aug 1999 16:14:51 PDT Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:14:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell Subject: RE: H-COST: book--off topic To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carol Mitchell There's a usenet group on children's books where they answer this kind of question frequently-think it's rec.arts.books.childrens Carol === Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 6 18:48:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA01699 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:48:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03303; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 18:01:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12305 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:58:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12296 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:58:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13417 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:58:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-47.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.47]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13951 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 16:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000e01bee067$fbafac40$6f74fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: corrected web address for blackwork Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 17:01:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" -----Original Message----- From: Megan McHugh To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, August 06, 1999 1:53 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: corrected web address for blackwork I got it a few days ago when she first posted it. It looked pretty. Now, I tried it again since you said you were having problems and I got the 404 error message too. Michelle > >-Poster: "Megan McHugh" > >I cannot get to this address. I keep getting a 404 error. Anyone else >having problems? > >>Sorry, that address I sent earlier was wrong. Here's that close up of the >>blackwork on the chemise collar. >> http://martin.dc.usweb.com/dree/album/images/p0000333a.jpg >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 6 22:56:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA08428 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 22:56:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25628; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 22:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA11742 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 22:07:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.leading.net (root@smtp.leading.net [207.98.192.90]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11731 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 22:07:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from a39193-s2-19-243.leading.net (a39193-s2-19-243.leading.net [216.199.27.243]) by smtp.leading.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA24004 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 00:07:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908070407.AAA24004@smtp.leading.net> From: "Arianne de Dragonnid mka Grace Payne" To: "h-costume@indra.com" Date: Fri, 06 Aug 99 23:57:25 Priority: Normal X-Mailer: PMMail 1.95a For OS/2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: H-COST: sca-garb list Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Arianne de Dragonnid mka Grace Payne" On Tue, 3 Aug 1999 , Michelle wrote: >I subscribed to that list about two weeks ago too. I still have yet to >receive anything. I guess that there isn't anyone actively posting to the >list. Should we try and stimulate them? > Michelle ```````````````````````` Ladies, I'm on that list, and that's not the problem. Unfortunately, I've no idea what is. You may want to try re-subscribing. Yours, Arianne Mother of a 9 pound, 1 ounce baby boy born this past monday at 3:12 in the morning, less than two and a half hours after my water broke. No drugs -- there wasn't time. Boy, do I have a deeper respect for our fore-mothers! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 6 23:29:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA09273 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 23:29:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18162; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 20:52:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA02282 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 20:49:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02275 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 20:49:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (user-2iveide.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.73.174]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA23585; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 22:49:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02d201bee07f$f8609460$1546f7a5@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: "Society for Creative Anachronism (SCA) -Garb" , Subject: H-COST: Re: Folkwear Patterns Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 22:53:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" Anyone know if the Folkwear Gaza dress is period? What about the kamiz and churidar pants in their "Jewels of India" pattern? If not, any takers on around when these styles became fashionable? Just trying to think of cooler types of clothing for Pennsic. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 7 00:21:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA10741 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 00:21:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00666; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 23:35:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20509 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 23:31:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20503 for ; Fri, 6 Aug 1999 23:31:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA27221 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 00:35:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 00:35:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: kilt documentation? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> An upcomming highland/celtic-themed event has an arts and sciences competition asking that we make and model a period kilt. It occured to me that most of what I know about kilts is "common knowledge," such as the "whole nine yards" story, which may be true, completely false, or true but much more recent than we think. I was hoping some of the all-knowing members of this list might have some sources on the early history of kilt dimensions, wrapping, whatever that they might share with me. In this case, "period" is defined as 600-1600, give or take a bit. My personal preference would be toward the earlier end of the spectrum, but any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks in advance, Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 7 03:18:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id DAA15629 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 03:18:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10385; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 02:32:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA04703 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 02:29:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04698 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 02:29:50 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.72] (ppp72.creative.net [208.225.99.72]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07877 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 01:29:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 01:36:52 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: kilt documentation? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net >-Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > >An upcomming highland/celtic-themed event has an arts and sciences >competition asking that we make and model a period kilt. It occured to me >that most of what I know about kilts is "common knowledge," such as the >"whole nine yards" story, which may be true, completely false, or true but >much more recent than we think. I was hoping some of the all-knowing >members of this list might have some sources on the early history of kilt >dimensions, wrapping, whatever that they might share with me. In this >case, "period" is defined as 600-1600, give or take a bit. My personal >preference would be toward the earlier end of the spectrum, but any and >all help would be greatly appreciated. Can't help with the kilt, but a linguist, whose name i've forgotten, says that the expression "the whole nine yards" didn't appear in English until the 1960's - yes, *19*60's. He has traced it to the use of cement mixers in those days. They're a different size now, but then there were mixers that held 9 cubic yards of cement and it was an unusual job where they had to dump "the whole nine yards." I might be able to retrieve the linguist's name, if inquiring minds want to know... Sorry i can't help with the kilt. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 7 04:10:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id EAA16966 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 04:10:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10038; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 02:22:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA03937 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 02:18:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03929 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 02:18:12 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.72] (ppp72.creative.net [208.225.99.72]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA07703; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 01:18:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <02d201bee07f$f8609460$1546f7a5@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 01:25:12 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com, SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU Subject: Re: H-COST: Folkwear Patterns Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net >-Poster: "Megan McHugh" > >Anyone know if the Folkwear Gaza dress is period? What about the kamiz and >churidar pants in their "Jewels of India" pattern? If not, any takers on >around when these styles became fashionable? Just trying to think of cooler >types of clothing for Pennsic. The Gaza dress is pretty much period, although perhaps not the embroidery... As for the "Jewels of India" package, as far as i can tell, the churidar pants are not period. The kamiz is almost-period (although perhaps not in India). For pants, you could try the Sarouelles pattern. Besides non-period pseudo-Indian pants, it has poofy Turkish pants and the more common, more period straight legged pants - i'm not sure if the way the gusset is set in the straight pants is quite period, but they're close. The Syrian dress is also period. The Egyptian shirt is pretty close to period, but without the pockets. I made it ankle length of burgundy charmeuse silk. The slightly shaped yoke is similar to those of Persia after the Mongol invasian, which is very much in period. I have just started a website, and have a page of web links and an annotated bibliography of book in my personal librarys on Middle Eastern costume. The site is only a couple days old and very much under construction. http://witch.drak.net/lilinah/index.html Bayt Anahita There may be some information of help to people there. Lilinah, known in the SCA as Anahita bint-Karim al-hakim al-Fassi _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 7 10:06:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA26281 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 10:06:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25274; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 08:25:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23544 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 08:22:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.mindspring.com (smtp4.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23536 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 08:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (user-2iveijt.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.74.125]) by smtp4.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA26811 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 10:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005801bee0e0$9ae5cc40$7d4af7a5@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Folkwear Patterns Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 10:24:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" Thank you. I will try your web site now. >The Gaza dress is pretty much period, although perhaps not the embroidery... > >As for the "Jewels of India" package, as far as i can tell, the churidar >pants are not period. The kamiz is almost-period (although perhaps not in >India). > >For pants, you could try the Sarouelles pattern. Besides non-period >pseudo-Indian pants, it has poofy Turkish pants and the more common, more >period straight legged pants - i'm not sure if the way the gusset is set in >the straight pants is quite period, but they're close. > >The Syrian dress is also period. > >The Egyptian shirt is pretty close to period, but without the pockets. I >made it ankle length of burgundy charmeuse silk. The slightly shaped yoke >is similar to those of Persia after the Mongol invasian, which is very much >in period. > >I have just started a website, and have a page of web links and an >annotated bibliography of book in my personal librarys on Middle Eastern >costume. The site is only a couple days old and very much under >construction. > >http://witch.drak.net/lilinah/index.html >Bayt Anahita > >There may be some information of help to people there. > >Lilinah, >known in the SCA as >Anahita bint-Karim al-hakim al-Fassi > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 7 10:11:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA26491 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 10:11:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20196; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 06:56:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA15630 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 06:52:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15624 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 06:52:33 -0600 (MDT) From: BarbMVD@aol.com Received: from BarbMVD@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6CRWa14800 (4186) for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 08:51:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <40c4e323.24dd85e6@aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 08:51:50 EDT Subject: H-COST: The Kilt To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: BarbMVD@aol.com It never ceases to amaze me that advantage is not taken of the search capabilities on the Internet. Almost everything you want to know is out there, I found this in less than five minutes: "Wearing the Great Kilt (This kilt is also known as the great plaid or belted plaid, the breacan feile, the feileadh mhor or philamore)" http://www.mactravel.com/tweb/greatkilt/index.htm Barbara Delorey List Manager: 18cWoman@onelist.com DAR/Reenactors: http://hometown.aol.com/barbmvd/page/dar.htm Battle Road Clothing: http://www.ziplink.net/~mrkmcc/delory.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 7 10:11:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA26494 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 10:11:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17341; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 05:49:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA10711 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 05:45:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA10704 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 05:45:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 29981 invoked from network); 7 Aug 1999 11:45:52 -0000 Received: from chi-209-112-70-14.mc.net (HELO lynnx.enteract.com) (209.112.70.14) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 7 Aug 1999 11:45:52 -0000 Message-ID: <37AC3F92.E7E@mc.net> Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 07:15:46 -0700 From: lynnx X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Greenberg & Hammer update References: <199908061851.MAA12781@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lynnx > G&H's 800 number: 1 800 955 5135. Their new catalog won't be out for a > couple more months (I'm now on the mailing list). JFYI: It's out now. Heather _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 7 11:00:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA27688 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 11:00:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03059; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 10:11:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA04200 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 10:08:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04192 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 10:08:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [38.30.214.215] (ip215.washington13.dc.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.214.215]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA15142; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 09:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908071608.JAA15142@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Subject: H-COST: Picture Request Date: Sat, 7 Aug 99 12:13:27 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: "VICTORIA 19th-Century British Culture & Society" , "H-Net Gilded Age and Progressive Era List" , "Manner Born" , "DC Costume List" , "Historic Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dear Collective Wisdom - Help! Am looking for a picture. It needs to be American artist, showing an interior and people with focus on adults not children. It would be super to find one that has great interior detail (preferably parlor) and perhaps starts to show the transition where inventions and technology have started to effect the interior of the home. Have been searching the web all morning and must not be hitting the right sites. I have found "Friendly Call" by William Merritt Chase ( done before 1895) and The Brown Family by Eastman Johnson (done in1869). I think what I am looking for would be in the time period between these two. This is for the cover for The Washington Antiques Show catalogue (Jan 2000) whose theme is 'Behind Closed Doors: Victorian Secrets' -- so it needs to be in a collection that I can get to ! for rights to use it. Any and all help greatly received! Many thanks, Margo King _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 7 11:26:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28166 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 11:26:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05885; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 10:38:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07001 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 10:36:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06947; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 10:36:01 -0600 (MDT) From: ArcadiaCB@aol.com Received: from ArcadiaCB@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6FBOa01404 (2613); Sat, 7 Aug 1999 12:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5064384.24ddba50@aol.com> Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 12:35:28 EDT Subject: H-COST: Crochted yokes on Amazon auction site To: h-costume@indra.com, sewinghistoric@onelist.com, vintage@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ArcadiaCB@aol.com Apologies if you get this post several times, as I've posted to various lists. I remember a few months back that someone (can't remember on which list) was looking for the crocheted yokes to make Victorian/Edwardian style lingerie and I came across an auction of 3 of them on the Amazon auction site. Just thought I'd pass along the info. Amazon.com Auctions: 3Victorian Crocheted Yokes for Ladies Lingerie Charlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 7 11:36:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA28383 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 11:36:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07048; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 10:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08141 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 10:46:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08132 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 10:46:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA27844 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 11:51:02 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 11:51:02 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: The Kilt In-Reply-To: <40c4e323.24dd85e6@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> True, I didn't search the internet, but I was hoping more for books or bibliographies...books *with* bibliographies, preferably...guess I'm just an old-fashioned girl. Emma On Sat, 7 Aug 1999 BarbMVD@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: BarbMVD@aol.com > > It never ceases to amaze me that advantage is not taken of the search > capabilities on the Internet. > > Almost everything you want to know is out there, I found this in less than > five minutes: > "Wearing the Great Kilt (This kilt is also known as the great plaid or belted > plaid, the breacan feile, the feileadh mhor or philamore)" > > http://www.mactravel.com/tweb/greatkilt/index.htm > > Barbara Delorey > List Manager: 18cWoman@onelist.com > DAR/Reenactors: http://hometown.aol.com/barbmvd/page/dar.htm > Battle Road Clothing: http://www.ziplink.net/~mrkmcc/delory.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 7 13:01:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA30279 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 13:01:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12314; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 12:13:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17150 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 12:11:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17143 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 12:11:02 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6CLSa22963 (4227); Sat, 7 Aug 1999 14:10:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 14:10:27 EDT Subject: H-COST: Kilt info sources To: h-costume@indra.com CC: 00217146@bigred.unl.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com Ok, as for the kilt. Now you should be aware that most feel that the kilt was not worn by the Scots until AFTER 1600 or so. Earlier than that, the Celtic peoples (Irish, Scots, etc) dressed fairly alike. Keep that in mind. A good (and one of the only) reference books you'll find to that end is "Old Irish and Highland Dress, and that of the Isle of Mann" by H.F. McClintock. It is out of print and very very hard to find though. Below then are sites that dealt specifically with the kilt and it's history in Scotland. Various sites differ in their beliefs and subsequently their information, so be cautious. The poster who encouraged you to make better use of the internet should also have cautioned you that misinformation abounds. The most well-meaning of people state their own opinion as fact. However, with prudent and judicious interpretation of information, you will usually be able to determine what is accurate and what is not. > History of the Scottish Kilt > http://www.taisbean.com/celticnet/kilthistory.html > > Arisaid - Scottish women's clothing (listed last week?) > http://www.taisbean.com/celticnet/kilthistory.html > > Eachna's 5th Century Irish-Celtic Re-Enactments Page > http://www.hatrack.net/gwen/celtic/index.html > (lots of other links) > > http://www.reconstructinghistory.com Best of luck angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 7 14:27:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA32072 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 14:27:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19066; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 13:40:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25819 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 13:38:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25812 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 13:38:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.14 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 12:37:57 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Picture Request Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:41:12 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bee10d$8cfa7040$b10bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199908071608.JAA15142@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" If you search for antique sewing machines, one of the sites has some great color advertisements from the mid-late 1800's showing their machines in the center of 19th century social life. Stilted, because its and advertisement, but they are really attractive and fun. Sorry I didn't save the URL, but found them once in the course of hunting for old parts. Hope > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of mkings@earthlink.net > Sent: Saturday, August 07, 1999 8:13 AM > To: VICTORIA 19th-Century British Culture & Society; H-Net Gilded Age > and Progressive Era List; Manner Born; DC Costume List; > Historic Costume > Subject: H-COST: Picture Request > > > > -Poster: > > Dear Collective Wisdom - Help! > > Am looking for a picture. It needs to be American artist, showing an > interior and people with focus on adults not children. It > would be super > to find one that has great interior detail (preferably parlor) and > perhaps starts to show the transition where inventions and technology > have started to effect the interior of the home. > > Have been searching the web all morning and must not be > hitting the right > sites. I have found "Friendly Call" by William Merritt Chase ( done > before 1895) and The Brown Family by Eastman Johnson (done in1869). I > think what I am looking for would be in the time period > between these two. > > This is for the cover for The Washington Antiques Show catalogue (Jan > 2000) whose theme is 'Behind Closed Doors: Victorian Secrets' > -- so it > needs to be in a collection that I can get to ! for rights to use it. > > Any and all help greatly received! Many thanks, Margo King > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 7 15:58:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01370 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:58:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27778; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:12:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05654 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:09:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05646 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:09:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.146] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11DDio-0000GT-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 14:09:42 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sat, 07 Aug 1999 13:42:53 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: WAS: H-COST: Folkwear Patterns NOW: Netiquette -- off-topic In-Reply-To: <005801bee0e0$9ae5cc40$7d4af7a5@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Please, when responding to someone's post, use only the barest amt. of their msg. essential to make it clear to what you are referring in your own post--the original post-er's name and email address and often a couple of lines from his/her post. Please do not just repost the whole of the original post, having added: Thank you. or some other one line comment. Thank you for your time...Carol, now returning to historical costuming... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 7 15:59:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA01379 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:59:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27806; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:12:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05779 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:10:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05774 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:10:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990807211036.GLFC410.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a>; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 14:10:36 -0700 Message-ID: <008201bee117$9b8a92c0$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: , , References: <000101bedf79$d6a49620$c2f4accf@costume> Subject: H-COST: Zoot Suit pattern?? 1940's patterns Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 16:58:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" Hello everyone, Anyone know of a company that makes/carries patterns for the basic layout of a "Zoot Suit"? I like to have at least a mock up to start with when doing something historical like this....I tear it apart and basically start from scratch anyway...but it's like my security blanket ;) Thanks in advance! ~Kyna Grannd Garb Historic Clothing, Supplies and Accessories http://www.GranndGarb.com ICQ#12859312 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 7 16:03:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA01562 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 16:03:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28302; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:17:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA06202 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:14:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1103.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.123]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA06194 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 15:14:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990807211545.17284.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [38.226.171.42] by web1103.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 07 Aug 1999 14:15:45 PDT Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 14:15:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell Subject: Re: H-COST: Zoot Suit pattern?? 1940's patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carol Mitchell There was a thread about this on the list some months ago. I think it was determined that the pattern never existed-people did what the original tailors did and altered a man's suit pattern for the period. I can try to get information on that pattern if you like, but perhaps a zoot suit pattern has been released in the interim. If not, someone should do it. Carol === Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild _____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 7 16:54:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA02685 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 16:54:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02281; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 16:08:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11043 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 16:05:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11028 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 16:05:38 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ULWa01827 (7816) for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 18:05:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 18:05:03 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Picture Request To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Try Elisabeth Garrett's book, At Home. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 7 20:34:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA07858 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 20:34:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18137; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:48:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04706 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:46:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA04694 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 7718 invoked from network); 8 Aug 1999 01:39:06 -0000 Received: from 38.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.183.240.38) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 8 Aug 1999 01:39:06 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990807184733.18e71ef8@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Kilt info sources Cc: 00217146@bigred.unl.edu Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 02:10 PM 8/7/99 EDT, MzScahlett@aol.com wrote: > >-Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com > >Ok, as for the kilt. Now you should be aware that most feel that the kilt >was not worn by the Scots until AFTER 1600 or so. Earlier than that, the >Celtic peoples (Irish, Scots, etc) dressed fairly alike. Keep that in mind. >A good (and one of the only) reference books you'll find to that end is "Old >Irish and Highland Dress, and that of the Isle of Mann" by H.F. McClintock. >It is out of print and very very hard to find though. [snip] Another book you might try is "The Costume of Scotland" by John Telfer Dunbar, 1981; ISBN 0 7134 2534 2, published by B.T. Batsford Ltd. I would also suggest trying a search on books by John Telfer Dunbar. His "History of Highland Dress" is a standard work of reference in this area. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 7 20:34:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA07863 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 20:34:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18138; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:48:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04709 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:46:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA04695 for ; Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 1999 19:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 7718 invoked from network); 8 Aug 1999 01:39:06 -0000 Received: from 38.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.183.240.38) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 8 Aug 1999 01:39:06 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990807184733.18e71ef8@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Kilt info sources Cc: 00217146@bigred.unl.edu Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 02:10 PM 8/7/99 EDT, MzScahlett@aol.com wrote: > >-Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com > >Ok, as for the kilt. Now you should be aware that most feel that the kilt >was not worn by the Scots until AFTER 1600 or so. Earlier than that, the >Celtic peoples (Irish, Scots, etc) dressed fairly alike. Keep that in mind. >A good (and one of the only) reference books you'll find to that end is "Old >Irish and Highland Dress, and that of the Isle of Mann" by H.F. McClintock. >It is out of print and very very hard to find though. [snip] Another book you might try is "The Costume of Scotland" by John Telfer Dunbar, 1981; ISBN 0 7134 2534 2, published by B.T. Batsford Ltd. I would also suggest trying a search on books by John Telfer Dunbar. His "History of Highland Dress" is a standard work of reference in this area. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 06:35:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA24302 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 06:35:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA24443; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 05:44:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA11268 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 05:39:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA11261 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 05:39:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-204-116.s624.tnt3.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.204.116]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA08106 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 07:40:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000501bee193$d591d920$74cc7ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: pre=washing Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 07:47:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" Is satin machine-washable? Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 06:47:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id GAA24593 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 06:47:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25197; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 06:01:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA12613 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 05:56:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12605 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 05:56:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sue.computercrafters.com (pm3frd1-68-81.intrepid.net [206.102.68.81]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA26365 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 07:56:49 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990808075953.00806630@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 07:59:53 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: H-COST: Event Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sue Shatto The Historical Society of Frederick Maryland invites you to the Treasured Heirloom Event on October 16. Heirloom experts will be on hand to identify and/or discuss treasures with their owners. The society will accept a $5 per item consideration. The celebration will begin on the evening of October 15 with a special presentation in Frederick's City Hall, followed by a reception at the Tyler-Spite House . Call 301-663-1188 for more information. Visit the Historical Society's web site at www.fwp.net/hsfc Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 07:42:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA26131 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 07:42:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28041; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 06:55:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA16396 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 06:51:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16391 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 06:51:43 -0600 (MDT) From: BarbMVD@aol.com Received: from BarbMVD@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6TMTa01390 (4183) for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 08:51:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7c979b54.24ded73f@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 08:51:11 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: pre=washing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: BarbMVD@aol.com andrea.gideon@erols.com writes: << Is satin machine-washable? >> Satin is a weave, what is the fabric content? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 09:26:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA28860 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 09:26:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06634; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 08:39:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24752 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 08:35:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24744 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 08:35:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-199-236.s490.tnt4.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.199.236]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA05740 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:36:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000401bee1ac$7c456620$ecc77ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <7c979b54.24ded73f@aol.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: pre=washing Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:44:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > -Poster: BarbMVD@aol.com > > andrea.gideon@erols.com writes: << Is satin machine-washable? >> > > Satin is a weave, what is the fabric content? I think it's 100%polyester Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 09:48:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29414 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 09:48:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08865; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 09:02:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26872 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 08:58:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26861 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 08:58:19 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6JACa09412 (3985) for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:57:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <366a36a3.24def4c0@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:57:04 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: pre=washing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Satin is both a weave and a fabric. 18th century satin was silk and was dry cleaned. Sally Queen Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 10:07:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA29941 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:07:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11361; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 09:20:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA28668 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 09:16:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28658 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 09:16:47 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6HHGa28698 (14448) for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:16:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:16:02 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: pre=washing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 08/08/1999 11:00:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, SAQUEEN@aol.com writes: << Satin is both a weave and a fabric. 18th century satin was silk and was dry cleaned. >> And there weren't many dry cleaning machines in the 18th century either! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 10:53:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA31192 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:53:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14905; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:05:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03074 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:01:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03063 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:01:44 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.158] (ppp158.creative.net [208.225.99.158]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00798 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 09:01:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <366a36a3.24def4c0@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 09:08:51 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: pre=washing Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Sally Queen wrote: > >Satin is both a weave and a fabric. 18th century satin was silk and was dry >cleaned. They had dry-cleaners back then? But seriously, how did they "dry clean" satin in those days, since i know they weren't using the same nasty chemicals we use today (of course, in various aspects of life they used other nasty chemicals). Does anyone know: Could silk satin be hand washed in cold water? How did the Chinese clean their silks? I know the Japanese washed theirs in cool water streams. Also, i know that there was (and i guess may still be) wool satin. I suppose one could hand wash it in cold water with a gentle soap... I sure wouldn't wash acetate satin, if that's still made. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 10:55:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA31231 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:55:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15273; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:08:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03371 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:05:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03356 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:05:01 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.158] (ppp158.creative.net [208.225.99.158]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00858 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 09:05:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 09:12:06 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Sprang Question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Hi, I've heard that some folks in the past made stockings of sprang and i'd like to try to make some... I have Peter Collingwood's book on Sprang, from which i can learn technique, in which he mentions the socks, but there are no pictures or patterns. Does anyone know where i can find a pattern? Or more information about historic sprang stockings? Thanks, Anahita Gaouri bint-Karim al-hakim al-Fassi _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 10:56:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA31248 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:56:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14903; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:05:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03014 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:01:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03006 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:01:12 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.158] (ppp158.creative.net [208.225.99.158]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00781 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 09:01:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000401bee1ac$7c456620$ecc77ad1@pavilion> References: <7c979b54.24ded73f@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 09:08:18 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: pre=washing Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net >-Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > >> andrea.gideon@erols.com writes: << Is satin machine-washable? >> >> >> Satin is a weave, what is the fabric content? > >I think it's 100%polyester My experience has been that polyester is generally machine washable. But are you sure it's polyester? Because there are many other artificial and synthetic fibers and some do not machine wash well. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 11:11:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA31713 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:11:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16341; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:25:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05055 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:21:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.boston.juno.com (m2.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.199]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05050 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:21:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m2.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EHHV54WW; Sun, 08 Aug 1999 12:21:02 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: pre=washing Message-ID: <19990714.115941.5231.8.kayherb@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-7,10-12,20-22,26-28,30-34 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 12:21:02 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" On Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:16:02 EDT AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > >And there weren't many dry cleaning machines in the 18th century >either! Au contraire, mon cher! They were called servants. Good ole' Hannah Glass in her Servant's Directory, Improved; or, House-Keepers Companion says: "To clean all sorts of Plain Silks. First take out the spots [she includes those directions elsewhere in the directory]; then take to a suit of cloths a peck of bran; lay it in a large dish or pan before the fire, turning it often with your hands till it is thoroughly dry; then lay your cloths on a table, and whilst the bran is hot, with your hand rub the silk very well with it, till you think it is clean; then shake them, and with a clean, soft, dry cloth, rub all the bran off well; fold them smooth, and lay them by. "To clean Sattins and Damasks. To a suit of cloths, take a three-penny loaf of the day before's baking; take out the crumb, rubbing it all very fine; mix with it a quarter of an ounce of powder-blue, and rub it as the plain silks above." Then you have to refer further into the Directory to find out the best way to clean the mess you just left on the floor! Kay kayherb@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 11:18:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA31822 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:18:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16730; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:29:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05473 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:25:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05462 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 10:25:18 -0600 (MDT) From: BarbMVD@aol.com Received: from BarbMVD@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6QLYa16280 (4073) for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 12:24:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 12:24:09 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: pre=washing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: BarbMVD@aol.com Poly is usually washable. To be safe and sure of any textile, always wash a small sample and check for shrinkage and appearance. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 11:56:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA00115 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:56:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20818; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:09:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09706 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:06:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09698 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:06:44 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6YROa13741 (14453) for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:06:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:06:04 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: pre=washing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 08/08/1999 12:23:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kayherb@juno.com writes: << "To clean all sorts of Plain Silks. First take out the spots [she includes those directions elsewhere in the directory]; then take to a suit of cloths a peck of bran; lay it in a large dish or pan before the fire, turning it often with your hands till it is thoroughly dry; then lay your cloths on a table, and whilst the bran is hot, with your hand rub the silk very well with it, till you think it is clean; then shake them, and with a clean, soft, dry cloth, rub all the bran off well; fold them smooth, and lay them by. "To clean Sattins and Damasks. To a suit of cloths, take a three-penny loaf of the day before's baking; take out the crumb, rubbing it all very fine; mix with it a quarter of an ounce of powder-blue, and rub it as the plain silks above.">> Totally interesting! Basically they soaked up oils with bread crumbs & hot bran...it's not just for breakfast anymore! I thought all they did with silk was to air out the dress wrong side out. And yes there was wool satin. There is also cotton satin but I don't know if that's common in the 18th century. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 12:01:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA00327 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 12:01:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21119; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:12:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA10052 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:10:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10044 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:10:26 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6MLFa16280 (14453) for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:09:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <889d57fa.24df13e0@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:09:52 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: pre=washing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 08/08/1999 12:27:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BarbMVD@aol.com writes: << Poly is usually washable. To be safe and sure of any textile, always wash a small sample and check for shrinkage and appearance. >> True. The problem with satin of any fiber is wrinkles really show up. Don't wash it if you don't have a fantastic iron. If it's acetate, you'll never get the wrinkles out. If you just want to pre-strink the fabric, try just steaming it before making it up. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 12:33:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01182 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 12:33:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23558; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:46:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13827 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:44:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13821 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:44:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.230] (ell106.acadia.net [205.217.218.90]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA20395 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:44:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:45:19 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: washing satin Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Depends upon what the fiber is; satin is a weave structure. Silk satin *is* washable, but washing may change the finish and hand. Ditto for cotton satin. Wool satin is still made, but difficult to find, and should you be so lucky to find some, I would treat it very gently. Synthetics are a Pandora's box; check labels and test. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 12:54:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA01735 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 12:54:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24859; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 12:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA15965 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 12:05:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15953 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 12:05:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07017 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 14:04:53 -0400 Message-ID: <37ADC6C9.34F9F5ED@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 14:05:36 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Cleaning silk with bran References: <19990714.115941.5231.8.kayherb@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue That's a really interesting passage -- what was the date? I think I'll turn it into a .sig quote. Thanks cv "Kathryn L. Herb" wrote: > Au contraire, mon cher! They were called servants. Good ole' > Hannah Glass in her Servant's Directory, Improved; or, House-Keepers > Companion says: -- I'm collecting a database & library of 3rd party articles about the SCA for everyone's reference. Email sca-clippings@thibault.org for details. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 13:10:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA02083 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:09:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26078; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 12:23:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17312 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 12:19:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from burlma1-smrt1.gtei.net (burlma1-smrt1.gtei.net [4.2.35.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17306 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 12:19:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from drwho (drwho.sys.gtei.net [4.2.36.23]) by burlma1-smrt1.gtei.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA01258 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 18:19:06 GMT From: "Asia Reva Poppers" To: "H-Cost" Subject: H-COST: Emergency substitute for tipping fluid? Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 14:19:05 -0400 Message-ID: <001901bee1ca$7f9d2100$17240204@drwho.sys.gtei.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Asia Reva Poppers" Hi All, I find myself in need of something to use to coat the ends of steel corset bones that I will be cutting to length. I don't have time to order the Real McCoy tipping fluid from one of the catalog sources; what would you folks suggest I use instead? In a perfect world, it would stand up to a hot dryer, but what's really important is that it prevent the bones from rusting, and that it be commonly available in some kind of retail store, so I can get my hands on it by tomorrow evening at the latest. The corset it's going into can be dry-clean-only if necessary. Whatever I use will be getting wet. Following is a brief list of things I have considered; any input would be vastly appreciated. 1. Fingernail polish 2. Metal epoxy 3. Kitchen appliance or bathtub enamel touch-up paint 4. Rust-oleum (not recommended by the guy at Home Depot; he thought it would be bad in the dryer. He also thought I was COMPLETELY insane. Go figure. 5. Some kind of paint designed to be used on metal in a craft context 6. The Home Depot guy recommended a type of spray paint that is made for high-heat applications, like grills, but I'd much rather dip or brush than spray. Thanks in advance, Asia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 13:45:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA03094 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:45:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29058; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 12:53:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21272 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 12:51:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21266 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 12:51:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA13858 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:51:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-62.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.62]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA00401 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:51:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002401bee1cf$7765e940$4b68fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "costume list" Subject: H-COST: Fw: OT but Important Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 11:54:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" -----Original Message----- From: Gwenllyan verch Morgan To: SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU Date: Sunday, August 08, 1999 10:21 AM Subject: OT but Important >I almost NEVER pass on virus alerts and other stuff, but this time I am, >because I did see a story on this on the local news and in the paper >recently. >______________________________________________ >The following was received today and all information has been verified. >Please feel free to pass this information along to friends and colleagues. >--------------------------------------- >SPECIAL ALERT >DO NOT EVER DIAL AREA CODE 809. >SCAM: Don't respond to emails, phone calls or pages which tell you to call an >"809" phone number. >This is a very important issue of Internet ScamBusters because it alerts >you to a scam that is spreading extremely quickly, can easily cost you >$100 or more and it is difficult to avoid unless you are aware of it. >We'd like to thank Paul Bruemmer and Brian Stains for bringing this scam >to our attention. This scam has also been identified by the National >Fraud Information Center and is costing victims a lot of money. There >are lots of different permutations of this scam, but here is how it >works. Permutation #1: Internet Based Phone Scam via e-mail. You >receive an email, typically with a subject line of "ALERT" or "Unpaid >Account." The message, which is being scammed across the net, says: I am >writing to give you a final 24 hours to settle your outstanding account. >If I have not received the settlement in full, I will commence legal >proceedings without further delay. If you would like to discuss this >matter to avoid court Acton, call Mike Murray at Global Communications >at 1-809-496-2700. >Permutation #2: Phone or pager scam: You receive a message on your >answering machine or your pager which asks you to call a number >beginning with area code 809. The reason you're asked to call varies: >It can be to receive information about a family member who has been ill, >to tell you someone has been arrested, died, or to let you know you have >won a wonderful prize, etc. In each case, you're told to call the 809 >number right away. Since there are so many new area codes these days, >people unknowingly return these calls. If you call from the US, you >will apparently be charged $25 per minute! Sometimes the person who >answers the phone will speak broken English and pretend not to >understand you. Other times, you'll just get a long recorded message. >The point is, they will try to keep you on the phone as long as >possible to increase the charges. Unfortunately, when you get your phone >bill, you'll often be charged more than $100.00. >Here's why it works: The 809 area code is located in the British Virgin >Islands, the Bahamas. The 809 area code can be used as a "pay-per-call" >number similar to 900 numbers in the US. Since 809 is not in the US, it >is not covered by US regulations of 900 numbers which require that you >be notified and warned of charges and rates involved when you call a >"pay-per-call" number. There is also no requirement that the company >provide a time period during which you may terminate the call without >being charged Further, whereas many US phones have 900 call blocking >(to avoid these kinds of charges), 900 number blocking will prevent >calls to the 809 area code. We recommend that no matter how you get the >message, if you are asked to call a number with an 809 area code that >you don't recognize investigate further and/or disregard the message. Be >"very" wary of email or calls asking you to call an 809 area code >number. It is important to prevent becoming a victim of this scam, since >trying to fight the charges afterwards can become a real nightmare. >That's because you did actually make the call. If you complain, both >your local phone company and your long distance carrier will not want >to get involved and will most likely tell you that they are simply >providing the billing for the foreign company. L You'll end up dealing >with a foreign company that argues that has done nothing wrong. Please >forward this entire issue of Internet ScamBusters to your friends, >family and colleagues to help them become aware of this scam so they >don't get ripped off. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 14:15:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA03895 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 14:15:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02108; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:28:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA25240 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:26:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25232 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:26:07 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6PFMa23990 (4540) for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 15:25:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8e57e010.24df33ae@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 15:25:34 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: pre=washing and satin weave To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com In a message dated 8/8/99 1:07:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: << Basically they soaked up oils with bread crumbs & hot bran...it's not just for breakfast anymore! I thought all they did with silk was to air out the dress wrong side out. >> Sewing room tip for "dry cleaning". With oily spots, put unscented baby powder over the oily spot. After powder absorbs the oil, brush off lightly. Modern adaption to the 18th century receipt. 18th century wool fullers were also professional dry cleaners. Linda Baumgarten's article in the latest issue of _Dress_ , Journal of The Costume Society of America, talks about "turning" garments for continued use. The practice of using the back side to get continued wear. Great article -- a must read. Also, damasks technically are satin weave as they use the long floating warp to achieve the shiny design. Wool, silk, and linen damasks were very common. Cotton satins were called were in a large category called satinet (Montgomery, page 342 for more information). Montgomery sites several other period names for cotton satins, like "sattinett checks", "cross barred", and "rich striped satenet". Sally Queen Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries http://www.sallyqueenassociate.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 14:47:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04725 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 14:47:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04607; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:59:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28608 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:57:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28597 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 13:57:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.199]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Sun, 8 Aug 1999 14:57:03 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Emergency substitute for tipping fluid? Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 19:51:33 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37b4dbf0.148886612@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <001901bee1ca$7f9d2100$17240204@drwho.sys.gtei.net> In-Reply-To: <001901bee1ca$7f9d2100$17240204@drwho.sys.gtei.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA28601 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Sun, 8 Aug 1999 14:19:05 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Asia Reva Poppers" > >Hi All, > >I find myself in need of something to use to coat the ends of steel corset >bones that I will be cutting to length. I don't have time to order the Real >McCoy tipping fluid from one of the catalog sources; what would you folks >suggest I use instead? In a perfect world, it would stand up to a hot >dryer, but what's really important is that it prevent the bones from >rusting, and that it be commonly available in some kind of retail store, so >I can get my hands on it by tomorrow evening at the latest. The corset it's >going into can be dry-clean-only if necessary. Whatever I use will be >getting wet. Tool Dip (I think this is the the brand name, but it may only be a product description). A sort of soft polymer 'paint'. It's available at most large hardware stores. You'll have to ask about heat-resistance, but it's intended to be used to re-coat the handles of tools and prevent rust while making them safer to use. It may even be the same fluid, with a different target market. It costs about 12-20 dollars for a jar. it tends to come in primary colors only, not white. I've seen yellow and red, and heard of blue. A freind has been using it for years on her custom-cut boning. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 17:51:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA09768 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 17:51:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20792; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 17:04:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18499 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 17:01:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from falcon.canfield.com (falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18493 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 17:01:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Leslie (u6-27.wa.net [206.191.135.91]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA11326 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 16:04:50 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990808155109.03620560@mail.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslie@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 15:56:13 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: Satin washability In-Reply-To: <199908081602.KAA03198@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Leslie Helms You'll need to wash a swatch to be sure. You can assume that you will get SOME texture change in all but the best-quality of polyester satins. If some softening, or a hammered-satin look, is acceptable, then you may be fine. Acetate satin tends to come out of the wash looking like a sad little varnished Kleenex. This is not universal, but it's highly likely. If you are dealing with a garment, rather than with yardage that can be sample-tested, try wetting an inner seam or hem area (carefully, to avoid waterspotting on the outside!) and working it between your hands. If you see any texture breakdown, or if the sheen changes after drying, you're out of luck. Leslie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 18:37:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA10917 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 18:37:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25062; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 17:51:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA23520 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 17:48:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23513 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 17:48:49 -0600 (MDT) From: CONNECT@aol.com Received: from CONNECT@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6MXFa01400 (4418) for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 19:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6cb4e563.24df713c@aol.com> Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 19:48:12 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: pre=washing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: CONNECT@aol.com In a message dated 8/8/99 12:23:45 PM, kayherb@juno.com writes: << "To clean all sorts of Plain Silks. First take out the spots [she includes those directions elsewhere in the directory]; then take to a suit of cloths a peck of bran; lay it in a large dish or pan before the fire, turning it often with your hands till it is thoroughly dry; then lay your cloths on a table, and whilst the bran is hot, with your hand rub the silk very well with it, till you think it is clean; then shake them, and with a clean, soft, dry cloth, rub all the bran off well; fold them smooth, and lay them by. >> This sounds extraordinarily like some SCA fighters I know. Their slogan is: If it's hot, it must be clean. This is in reference to nasty, smelly gambesons, fighting clothes, etc. Yours, Pattie Rayl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 19:56:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA12796 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 19:56:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03158; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 19:10:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA01969 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 19:07:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.inil.com (inil.com [206.31.32.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01962 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 19:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.31.165.101] by mail.inil.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 177-57935U7500L650S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 20:07:50 -0500 X-Sender: baddorf@pop3.inil.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 8 Aug 1999 20:07:22 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Deb Baddorf Subject: Re: H-COST: Emergency substitute for tipping fluid? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Deb Baddorf I use nail polish all the time -- emergency or not. About three coats, allowing time to dry in between. I use up my old, hideous colors of polish that way! Deb Baddorf Deb Baddorf http://www.inil.com/users/baddorf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 20:33:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA13615 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 20:32:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07214; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 19:45:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA05780 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 19:42:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.boston.juno.com (m2.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.199]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05772 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 19:42:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m2.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EHJV3CAD; Sun, 08 Aug 1999 21:38:45 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cleaning silk with bran Message-ID: <19990714.133900.5231.7.kayherb@juno.com> References: <19990714.115941.5231.8.kayherb@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-7,9-11,21-26 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 21:38:45 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" >-Poster: Cynthia Virtue > >That's a really interesting passage -- what was the date? I think >I'll >turn it into a .sig quote. Can't resist giving you the whole title and publication information. (Just looove those long titles! ) The Servant's Directory, Improved, or House-Keepers Companion. Wherein the Duties of the Chamber-Maid, Nursery-Maid, House-Maid, Landry-Maid, Scullion, or Under-Cook, Are fully and distinctly Explained. To which is added, Cookery and Pickling Sufficient to Qualify a Person to act as Thorough Servant In any Family. Also, a Table to cast up Expences or Wages by the Day, Week, Month and Year. Likewise, a Meat Market-Book, and many other Particulars, fit to be known by the Mistress of a Family. The Fourth Edition. By H. Glass, Author of The Art of Cookery made Plain and Easy. Dublin: Printed by J. Potts, at Swift's Head in Dame-Street. MDCCLXII Kay kayherb@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 8 22:51:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA16722 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 22:51:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21488; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 22:04:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21169 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 22:02:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21154 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 22:02:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-77.radiks.net [206.29.243.79]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA23834 for ; Sun, 8 Aug 1999 23:01:06 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990808225936.03ea7f70@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 22:59:36 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: satin washability In-Reply-To: <199908082302.RAA18564@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger >The problem with satin of any fiber is wrinkles really show up. Don't wash it >if you don't have a fantastic iron. If it's acetate, you'll never get the >wrinkles out. >You'll need to wash a swatch to be sure. You can assume that you will get >SOME texture change in all but the best-quality of polyester satins. If >some softening, or a hammered-satin look, is acceptable, then you may be >fine. We've had very good luck with one particular poly satin. It (IIRC) is called "peau satin", and is 60" wide rather than the usual 45". It's maybe not as shiny as "bridal satin" (the acetate stuff) but is very elegant in its own right, and drapes beautifully. It also washes like a dream - no apparent change in texture or finish. It's generally available at Hancock's in the bridal/formal fabric area. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 9 05:52:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id FAA00813 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 05:52:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11183; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 04:33:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA09268 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 04:29:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de (mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE [130.149.4.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09236 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 04:29:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from coal.bg.tu-berlin.de ([130.149.43.192]) by mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de with smtp (EXIM-3.02) for id 11DmgA-0006jK-00; Mon, 09 Aug 1999 12:29:18 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990809122828.00948100@130.149.12.212> X-Sender: barbara@130.149.12.212 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 12:28:28 +0200 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Barbara Maren Winkler Subject: Re: H-COST: book--off topic In-Reply-To: <199908061851.MAA12781@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Barbara Maren Winkler >- -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" > >... I >remember a novel about a westerner during the crusades (12-13th c) who >travelled east and was educated as a doctor in Arabia or Persia or >something. Noah Gordon's "The physician" has such a plot. There the hero is from London and travels to Persia (I think, actually Bukhara: today part of Uzbekistan, Central Asia) in his search for a good education in medicine. Sorry for the off-topic post, back to lurk mode after a short hello to everyone, Barbara Maren -- Barbara Maren Winkler barbara@math.tu-berlin.de _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 9 06:58:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00859 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 06:58:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14707; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 05:48:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14539 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 05:43:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from woody.wcnet.org (woody.wcnet.org [205.133.171.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14533 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 05:43:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (dialup-20-118-bg.wcnet.org [205.133.172.118]) by woody.wcnet.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA12667 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 07:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908091143.HAA12667@woody.wcnet.org> From: "Virginia H. Pfouts" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Petticoat buttons Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 07:50:26 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Virginia H. Pfouts" Were buttons used on American " common woman" petticoats during the War of 1812 time period? If so, of what material were they usually made? If buttons weren't used, what were the usual fasteners? And how were they placed? Thanks for any help here. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 9 10:40:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01778 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 10:40:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09237; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:53:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21459 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:49:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from polaris.shore.net (polaris.shore.net [207.244.124.105]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21448; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 09:49:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by polaris.shore.net with esmtp (Exim) id 11Drfs-0003kB-00; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:49:20 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) id 11Drfs-0004VR-00; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:49:20 -0400 Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:49:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: historic costume , vintage costume Subject: H-COST: tablecloths Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Katy Bishop Help, I need to find a cheap source for red and white checked tablecloths or fabric to cut into cloths asap. Thanks. Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 9 12:44:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03607 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:44:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02432; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:57:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23257 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:54:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23246 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 11:54:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19968 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 19:54:42 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp189-171.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.171]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA26056 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 19:54:39 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199908091754.TAA26056@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: book--off topic Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 19:57:06 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi all, Barbara wrote: > > Noah Gordon's "The physician" has such a plot. > There the hero is from London and travels to Persia (I think, actually > Bukhara: today part of Uzbekistan, Central Asia) in his search for a good > education in medicine. That's the one! Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 9 13:07:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03902 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:07:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05971; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:20:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28609 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:18:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28590 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:18:14 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6YFSa09412 (3929) for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:17:31 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: washing satin To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com If you are looking at fabric (not a finished garment!), and you are looking at inexpensive synthetic satin, just buy a bit and wash it and dry it, and see what happens. Long ago, when I knew a lot less about what I was doing (sometimes actually a help!) I wanted a satin gown for SCA use. I bought "bridal satin" or "baroque satin" or something equally generic-sounding from the local Joanne Fabric. I don't even know the content. Yes, I bought all I needed, not just a bit. Then I washed it on cold and dried it on permanent press. Luckily for me, it washed very well. It didn't come out stiff and "satiny," though. It turned out to be very soft, with a dull glint instead of a patent-leather-type shine. Kind of like "antique satin" curtains. Lined, it worked fine for what I wanted, and I avoided all those dry-cleaning bills. The point is -- it might wash, but it might not end up being what you want. If I had needed a stiff fabric, I would have been out of luck. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 9 13:15:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04042 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:15:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07292; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:28:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00253 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:25:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00245 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:25:52 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6GOFa03711 (4575) for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:25:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <894cb06.24e0770d@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:25:17 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: tablecloths To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Most Hancock Fabrics stores carry tablecloth checks in wide width. I don't remember the price, though, so I'm not sure if it's cheap enough for you. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 9 13:24:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04174 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:24:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08484; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:37:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02292 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:35:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from burlma1-smrt1.gtei.net (burlma1-smrt1.gtei.net [4.2.35.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02278 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 12:35:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from drwho (drwho.sys.gtei.net [4.2.36.23]) by burlma1-smrt1.gtei.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA17507 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:35:16 GMT From: "Asia Reva Poppers" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Emergency substitute for tipping fluid? Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:35:14 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bee295$eb9900b0$17240204@drwho.sys.gtei.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <199908082302.RAA18564@net.indra.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Asia Reva Poppers" Thanks for the Tool Dip suggestion! I have seen this stuff in stores, but was unsure how it would behave when dry. Does anyone on the list know how it holds up to moisture and/or heat? My fear is that the finished corset will accidentally get tossed in the dryer or ironed or something and I'll wind up with great blots of rubbery goo at the ends of my casings. Is my unfamiliarity with this product causing my imagination to run away with me? Another listmember wrote me personally and recommended nail polish; she said she's used it for years to good effect. Anyone have direct experience with any other method I might consider? Right now I'm leaning towards the nail polish, preferably in some Really Fabulous color that I would probably never wear on my nails, but if the tool dip is known to be pretty sturdy when dry, I might go that way instead. Thanks again for the input, and for any additional suggestions! Asia > From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) > Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 19:51:33 GMT > Subject: Re: H-COST: Emergency substitute for tipping fluid? > > - -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) > > On Sun, 8 Aug 1999 14:19:05 -0400, you wrote: > > Tool Dip (I think this is the the brand name, but it may only be a > product description). A sort of soft polymer 'paint'. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 9 14:47:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05433 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:47:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21831; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:00:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19345 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:57:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19330 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 13:57:22 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6OPSa28698 (2616) for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:56:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4f2c8000.24e08c7f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:56:47 EDT Subject: H-COST: pattern help To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Dear All, If you can help this person, please email her directly at SAMMagain@aol.com "Need, Need, following costume patterns for guitar performer - bullfighter, pirate shirt and a short cape. " Many thanks, Sally Queen Costume Calendar Series http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 9 15:08:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05767 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:08:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25093; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:19:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23764 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:17:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23757 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:17:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip220-13.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.13]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA24548 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990809161726.009768f0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 16:17:26 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Emergency substitute for tipping fluid? In-Reply-To: <001901bee1ca$7f9d2100$17240204@drwho.sys.gtei.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Hi Asia, >I find myself in need of something to use to coat the ends of steel >corset bones that I will be cutting to length. I don't have time to >order the Real McCoy tipping fluid from one of the catalog sources; what >would you folks suggest I use instead? I got something called "tool dip" at our local (large) hardware store. It comes in lots of colours as well as white. It came out looking a lot like the commercial ends after it was dry. And it's held up well. It's not rusted yet. I haven't tried it under heat though. I've used it with relative sucess & I think that might be exactly what you're looking for. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 9 15:48:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06275 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 15:48:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00913; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:59:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02593 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:56:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from dias.net (dias.net [199.170.176.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02579 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 14:56:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (ophelia@localhost) by dias.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA29652; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:00:54 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from ophelia@dias.net) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 16:00:53 -0500 (CDT) From: "Sara J. Davitt" To: Gaelscot@aol.com cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: washing satin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Sara J. Davitt" AS long as you pre wash it it's fine. though because you are abusing it slightly, by washing, it will be a smidge duller.. I've had a Satin Duvet for 4 years, and it is still smooth n abd lusterous.. and I machine wash it all the time. (it's yummy fabric to sleep with, but will slipp off onto a pile on the floor in the middle of winter) Sarahj **2Y's**UR**2Y's**UB**IC**UR**2Y's**4Me** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 9 18:32:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08728 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:32:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23992; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 17:45:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06074 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 17:42:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from discordia.io.com (discordia.io.com [199.170.88.100]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06069 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 17:42:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dragon (aus-as3-072.io.com [208.2.106.72]) by discordia.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24813 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:42:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199908092342.SAA24813@discordia.io.com> From: "Amanda Reeves" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: tablecloths Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:46:00 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Amanda Reeves" Try your local feed store, sometimes some of them have a "gift" or "home" section. Amanda ---------- > From: Katy Bishop > To: historic costume ; vintage costume > Subject: H-COST: tablecloths > Date: Monday, August 09, 1999 10:49 AM > > > -Poster: Katy Bishop > > > Help, I need to find a cheap source for red and white checked > tablecloths or fabric to cut into cloths asap. Thanks. > > Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian > vintage@shore.net Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 9 18:49:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08885 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:49:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25527; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:01:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08369 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 17:58:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA08359 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 17:58:52 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908092358.RAA08359@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 10416 invoked from network); 9 Aug 1999 17:58:53 -0600 Received: from ts17-30.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.10.69) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 1999 17:58:53 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Emergency substitute for tipping fluid? Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:04:46 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" I used nail polish once, but it didn't stand up to ironing. Luckily it only stained the lining of the boned Elizabethan bodice. Kathlene ---------- > From: Asia Reva Poppers > To: h-costume-digest@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Emergency substitute for tipping fluid? > Date: Monday, August 09, 1999 12:35 PM > > > -Poster: "Asia Reva Poppers" > > Thanks for the Tool Dip suggestion! I have seen this stuff in stores, but > was unsure how it would behave when dry. Does anyone on the list know how > it holds up to moisture and/or heat? My fear is that the finished corset > will accidentally get tossed in the dryer or ironed or something and I'll > wind up with great blots of rubbery goo at the ends of my casings. Is my > unfamiliarity with this product causing my imagination to run away with me? > > Another listmember wrote me personally and recommended nail polish; she said > she's used it for years to good effect. Anyone have direct experience with > any other method I might consider? Right now I'm leaning towards the nail > polish, preferably in some Really Fabulous color that I would probably never > wear on my nails, but if the tool dip is known to be pretty sturdy when dry, > I might go that way instead. > > Thanks again for the input, and for any additional suggestions! > > Asia > > > From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) > > Date: Sun, 08 Aug 1999 19:51:33 GMT > > Subject: Re: H-COST: Emergency substitute for tipping fluid? > > > > - -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) > > > > On Sun, 8 Aug 1999 14:19:05 -0400, you wrote: > > > > Tool Dip (I think this is the the brand name, but it may only be a > > product description). A sort of soft polymer 'paint'. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 9 20:37:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10525 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 20:37:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06082; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 19:51:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA21796 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 19:48:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21785 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 19:48:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from slave (BayArea56k434.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.34]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id SAA31996 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 18:48:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37AF845F.6F69@netwiz.net> Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 18:46:07 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: pre=washing References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi lilinah@grin.net wrote: > ... > How did the Chinese clean their silks? They mostly didn't. Like Europeans wearing linen undergarments, the Chinese wore plain white silk undergarments that *could* be washed, and kept the outer garments a bit cleaner. I saw some cheongsams from the 20's that had cotton *eyelet* basted inside the collar. As it didn't show on the outside at all, I assumed it was so that the eyelet could be removed and washed. > I know the Japanese washed theirs in cool water streams. They're mostly *rinsed* in the streams/rivers. This is still done by the way. A friend of mine who taught me a lot about kimonos, roomed with a professional kimono maker when she was a student in Japan. The lady also re-made kimonos. When they get dirty, you take them *completely* apart, wash them carefully, rinse, stretch to dry on special stretchers. Then you carefully examine them for wear or damage and "turn" the damaged areas someplace else (like turning collars) Then sew the entire thing back together, by hand, and possibly put in a new lining as well. You can see why they go to great lengths to keep them clean by wearing underkimonos and "dusters" over the top for going out. I've gotten an awful lot of "scrap" kimonos with apparently indelible food stains! Just in case anyone is interested. (If anyone knows exactly *how* they are washed, or how to get these darned stains out, I'd like to hear about it!) Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 9 22:08:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11887 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:08:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15393; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 21:21:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA03524 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 21:19:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03519 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 21:19:10 -0600 (MDT) From: trekona@erols.com Received: from erols.com (207-172-130-176.s176.tnt3.col.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.130.176]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA08172 for < h-costume@indra.com>; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 23:19:09 -0400 (EDT) To: h-costume@indra.com (h-costume) Subject: H-COST: contact Date: Tue, 10 Aug 99 03:17:43 GMT Message-ID: X-Mailer: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00] Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: trekona@erols.com Hi, Would Jadran Kale please re-contact me? I've just had a big computer malfunction which wiped out all my message stores since July! -Judy Mitchell sorry for the bandwidth, but it messed up my address-book. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 9 23:37:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13096 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 23:36:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23860; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:50:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14335 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:47:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14328 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:47:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p36.directcon.net [206.170.184.85]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA03342 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 21:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1999 21:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908100447.VAA03342@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: washing satin Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Polyester satin is washable, but will fray badly, so be careful to finish seams. As previously discussed, washing will change the hand and make it much softer and duller. Sometimes this is nice, but if that's not the effect you want, you can retain the hand by washing the garment (or yardage), and not drying it at all before you iron. It will take forever, and you may need to use spray starch to stiffen it, but it can work, and if you've just spilled something on a bridesmaid's dress and the client will be picking it up in two hours, it's good to know. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 9 23:42:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13228 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 23:42:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24274; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:56:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15006 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:53:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14999 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 22:53:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-132.radiks.net [206.29.243.134]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA29202 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 23:52:40 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990809235152.007347c4@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1999 23:51:52 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: Tool dip In-Reply-To: <199908092359.RAA08386@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger >Thanks for the Tool Dip suggestion! I have seen this stuff in stores, but >was unsure how it would behave when dry. Does anyone on the list know how >it holds up to moisture and/or heat? Moisture - should be no problem. Heat - I don't think a dryer would do anything, but an iron at anything above "silk" temp might. It's basically thick acrylic paint. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 9 23:53:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13358 for ; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 23:53:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25243; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 23:07:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA16023 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 23:04:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16002; Mon, 9 Aug 1999 23:04:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id OAA14674; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:34:35 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA00305; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:42:50 +0930 Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:42:43 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Tool dip In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990809235152.007347c4@radiks.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Mon, 9 Aug 1999, Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote: > > Moisture - should be no problem. Heat - I don't think a dryer would do > anything, but an iron at anything above "silk" temp might. It's basically > thick acrylic paint. Hmmm....does this mean you could use acrylic paint to finish bones? Would it crack? I have lots of acrylic paint. I don't think I've had any trouble with the acrylics I've spilled on my clothes melting when I've ironed them, but that isn't big globs of it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 10 14:54:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15714 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:54:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25249; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:08:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08497 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:03:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08486 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costume (207-172-63-15.s15.tnt3.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.63.15]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA19176 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000101bee36b$14b89700$0f3faccf@costume> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: Bustle Dress Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:01:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I am now working on an 1886 Delineator magazine. I just finished one page with a dress, you have to see and get a giggle. The URL is http://www.costumegallery.com/Delineator/June_1886/Ladies1.htm . The magazine suggests that this dress be worn to the seaside, the country, tennis, promenade, picnic and mountain wear. I find it funny that they suggest to wear this costume for mountainwear or tennis. Can you see a lady chasing a tennis ball around in this bustle dress? Maybe the magazine should have stated wearing to watch a tennis game. BTW, you do have to wait a little while for the dress image to download. The image is large to go with the very detailed description of the dress. This is one of those pages that is linked from a thumbnail image on the main page. The article also suggests that this costume could be made with nun's-vailing. I have not heard of this fabric. Have any of you? Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 10 16:23:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15819 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:23:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08296; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:37:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28649 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:31:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28622 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 15:31:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [38.30.47.171] (ip171.washington11.dc.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.47.171]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA08801; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 14:31:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908102131.OAA08801@harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Subject: H-COST: Washington Antiques Show - Feedback pls. Date: Tue, 10 Aug 99 17:36:47 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: "H-Net Gilded Age and Progressive Era List" , "VICTORIA 19th-Century British Culture & Society" , "DC Costume List" , "Historic Costume" , "Manor Born" , "DC Costume List" , "Antique Mail List" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id PAA28626 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dear Collective Wisdom: First many thanks for all your input into my queries during the last few months! It has been very helpful.......now pls. read on........ Am trying to finalize the program for The 45th Washington Antiques Show in Washington, DC, January 6 -9, 2000. This is one of the top four shows in the country and it benefits health and education charities ! Since our show has people attend from across the country and some out of country, I wonder if it would be an imposition to ask you all to be my sounding board?? Hope not, if so just delete this message now! The theme of this year's show is 'Behind Closed Doors: Victorian Secrets'. We are focusing on trying to dispell the myth that the Victorian era is just over-blown, -done, -dark, and just filled with dark ugly furniture! I am going to put info in this note rather than attached in case attachments are difficult for people to open. Here are our catalogue articles - we produce a museum quality book! Catalogue Articles Overview of the Loan Exhibition² by Mary Doering, private collector, consultant and former Curator of the American Red Cross Museum catalogues the diversity of the Victorian Era as presented by the Loan Exhibition. White House Conservatories² by William Seale. Mr. Seale, an architectural historian and author of The White House: The History of an American Idea is also our luncheon speaker. Overview of the Victorian Era² by Donald Pierce, Curator of Decorative Arts, High Museum of Art, Atlanta. With case study of the acquisition of the Virginia Carroll Crawford collection of important Victorian furniture and accessories. The Secret Language of Victorian Decor² by Jane Weiss. Professor, Hunter College, CUNY. Focusing on the kitchen, bedroom and parlor and how simple objects communicated the cultural position, aspirations and values of the household. Language of Flowers² by Donald Scheid, horticulturalist, Northern Virginia Community College. Discussion of gardens outside and floral arrangements within the Victorian home. Shall I Send the Mutton: Dining Practices of the Victorians² by Henry J. Duffy, former Curator of Lyndhurst, the Gould estate. An examination of the precise etiquette and ritual of dining in middle and upper-class Victorian homes with focus on holloware, flatware, and ceramics designed for specific use. The Sculpture of Augustus Saint-Gaudens² by Greg Schwarz, Director , Saint-Gaudens National Historic Site, Cornish, New Hampshire. Focus on the Clover Adams Grief Memorial in Rock Creek as well as the French connection with his parentage and study at the Beaux Arts, Paris. Merritt Ierley, author of the forthcoming book Comforts of Home, discusses the impact of the Industrial Revolution on the Victorian Home with a focus on the Victorian bathroom. Raymond Dobard, author of Hidden in Plain View: A Secret Story of Quilts and the Underground Railroad. Discussion of the theory that some slave quilt symbols were code for escape routes. Will Stapp, former Curator of Photography at the National Portrait Gallery, discusses the importance and effect of photography. Washington in 1900² by Sherry Birk, Curator at The Octagon. As we begin a new millennium, a look back to the way we looked at the turn of the century with an examination of Washington¹s Victorian architecture: Vaux Galladet, St. Elizabeth¹s, Sumner School, the Renwick, the Heurich mansion. * not confirmed On Thursday there is as lecture/lunch and the speaker will be William Seale, architectural historian, White House historian who will probably talk on the White House and Its Secrets Friday morning there will be a talk on Victorian Jewelry in the morning and in the afternoon, there will be 7 talks at Dealer's booths probably around the theme of what is important in the Vic Era for collecting antiques. On Sunday there is a Brunch/Lecture and the speaker will be The Motley Fool - stock analysts who are very amusing and often accurate! Now that you know what we have in place and the topics we have covered - sorry it took so long - what I could use input on is our Saturday program which will be a Symposium of Victorian Era. These are the topics that we are considering: € Building and Interiors - how they interrelated € Photography - how it changed how we 'view' the past € Impact of Civil War on Victorian Era € Changing Role of Women during this Ear - including costume, restrictions, etc. € Inventions that changed the world € Leisure & Means € Social Mores - Do As I Say Not As I Do € Hazards, Health & Healing (changed from Mysticism & Medicine) Let me know, please, what you would be interested in knowing more about - our focus is the Vic Era in the United States! Any and all ideas are welcome....many, many thanks. If you want to be put on our snail mail list, pls. email me privately with your name and address. Margo King, Show Chair in Potomac, MD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 10 17:35:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16083 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 17:35:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17199; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:49:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA14810 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:45:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.gateway.net (relay7.gateway.net [208.230.117.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14787 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 16:45:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (1Cust78.tnt4.princess-anne.va.da.uu.net [153.37.231.78]) by smtp2.gateway.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA22426 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00c701bee382$340132e0$4ee72599@oemcomputer> From: "Joel Thompson" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Tool dip Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:46:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id QAA14791 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Joel Thompson" H'lo all Been listening with interest about the use of "Tool Dip" for coating stay tips. I must admit, it was the first thing that popped into my mind as well. However, please allow me to caution you a little about this product. I've used a similar product called "Rubberize It" for what it was designed for- recoating tools. I don't think that it's a simple acrylic paint. It has very strong noxious fumes, and the label contains serious warnings about ventilation etc. It also cautions against the use of the product for any type of food contact. I realize that recoating a stay doesn't mean you're going to eat it, all I am saying is that it has a strong chemical composition. ***Please read the label carefully and exercise common sense when using this.*** If it turns out that "Tool Dip" really is acrylic and is a totally different thing, then I'm really sorry for jumping in. Just trying to save everyone from, literally, a big headache. Thanks Alianora Linda Rice VMAA > Moisture - should be no problem. Heat - I don't think a dryer would do > anything, but an iron at anything above "silk" temp might. It's basically > thick acrylic paint. Hmmm....does this mean you could use acrylic paint to finish bones? Would it crack? I have lots of acrylic paint. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 10 19:01:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16362 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:01:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26338; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:16:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00229 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:13:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00224 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:13:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip220-79.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.79]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA02002 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990810201602.00977af0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:16:02 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: H-COST: How to get grease out of t-shirts In-Reply-To: <19990714.133900.5231.7.kayherb@juno.com> References: <19990714.115941.5231.8.kayherb@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings all, With the current thread on cleaning, I have a question. How does one get a greasy food stain out of a cotton t-shirt after it has already been washed? Thanks, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 10 19:13:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16383 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:13:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27924; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:28:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA02197 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:26:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.wireweb.net (mail.wireweb.net [216.3.229.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02168 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 18:26:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail.wireweb.net from localhost (router,SLMail V3.2); Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:26:15 -0500 Received: by mail.wireweb.net from system (216.3.228.226::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:26:15 -0500 Message-ID: <37B0C408.4042@wireweb.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:30:00 -0500 From: "Alexandria Doyle" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How to get grease out of t-shirts References: <19990714.115941.5231.8.kayherb@juno.com> <3.0.1.32.19990810201602.00977af0@mail.interlog.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SLUIDL: 922A193E-4F4B11D3-BB360040-33537EE5 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Alexandria Doyle" > -Poster: Danielle Nunn > > > With the current thread on cleaning, I have a question. How does one get a greasy food stain out of a cotton t-shirt after it has already been washed? > > Goop, the stuff used to clean your hands after working on a car. You should be able to find it in the autoparts section. You simply run a little of the stuff onto the stain, maybe let it sit while the washer fills, then toss it into wash as usual. I used it on a dress of cloth/polyester blend that had grease from a chicken fried steak finger dribbled on it-the dress had been washed several times and dried and it took all the grease out. I also used it on a cotton knit dress that had popcorn butter on it. Alexandria _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 10 20:06:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16459 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:06:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04014; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:21:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA09163 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:18:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09155 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:18:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oup-pc [209.204.81.111] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AE8541AA00FC; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:14:45 -0400 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:18:28 -0400 Message-ID: <01BEE375.E37AB0A0.vjlyons@snip.net> From: Vince & Kerrie Lyons To: "h-costume-digest@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Re: Emergency tipping solution Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:50:20 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Vince & Kerrie Lyons > -Poster: "Asia Reva Poppers" > > Thanks for the Tool Dip suggestion! I have seen this stuff in stores, but > was unsure how it would behave when dry. Does anyone on the list know how > it holds up to moisture and/or heat? My fear is that the finished corset > will accidentally get tossed in the dryer or ironed or something and I'll > wind up with great blots of rubbery goo at the ends of my casings. Is my > unfamiliarity with this product causing my imagination to run away with me? Hi all, Popping out of the shadows to make a suggestion on this one....there's a product out there designed for repairing splits and rubs in the rubberish coating of dishwasher racks. It's generally packaged in a little bottle with a brush, similar to Liquid Paper. Obviously it stands up to heat and moisture. ;-) I haven't a brand name for it, my handy little bottle was purchased years ago at Sears, from the product repairs department. I've also seen the stuff advertised in "housewares" catalogues such as Lillian Vernon. It may well be available in hardware stores or perhaps appliance outlets. Good luck with your project! Kerrie (sliding back to lurking) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 10 20:33:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16502 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:33:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06749; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:48:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12550 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:44:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12541 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:44:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip220-1.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.1]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA24247 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:44:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990810213724.00aa6790@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:37:24 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Tool dip In-Reply-To: <00c701bee382$340132e0$4ee72599@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >I don't think that it's a simple acrylic paint. It has very strong >noxious fumes, and the label contains serious warnings about ventilation >etc. ... ***Please read the label carefully and exercise common sense >when using this.*** >If it turns out that "Tool Dip" really is acrylic and is a totally >different thing, then I'm really sorry for jumping in. Just trying to >save everyone from, literally, a big headache. No, you are correct "Tool Dip" has a STRONG chemical smell and requires good ventilation. It is definitely NOT ordinary acrylic paint. I think ordinary acrylic paint would just wear off to easily - it's not thick & rubbery like the "Tool Dip". Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 10 20:57:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16523 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:57:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09563; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:12:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA15888 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:10:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15882 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:10:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EHP4LC8A; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:09:07 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How to get grease out of t-shirts Message-ID: <19990810.174900.4791.1.cley@juno.com> References: <37B0C408.4042@wireweb.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3 From: cynthia j ley Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:09:07 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: cynthia j ley SHOUT works really well too. Arlys (whose spouse handles greasy machinery all day) ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 10 21:12:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16544 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:12:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10707; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:26:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA17448 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:23:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.wireweb.net (mail.wireweb.net [216.3.229.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17437 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 20:23:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail.wireweb.net from localhost (router,SLMail V3.2); Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:23:29 -0500 Received: by mail.wireweb.net from system (216.3.231.224::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:23:28 -0500 Message-ID: <37B0DF82.708C@wireweb.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:27:14 -0500 From: "Alexandria Doyle" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Tool dip References: <3.0.1.32.19990810213724.00aa6790@mail.interlog.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SLUIDL: 922A1D21-4F4B11D3-BB360040-33537EE5 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Alexandria Doyle" Danielle Nunn wrote: > > No, you are correct "Tool Dip" has a STRONG chemical smell and requires > good ventilation. It is definitely NOT ordinary acrylic paint. I think > ordinary acrylic paint would just wear off to easily - it's not thick & > rubbery like the "Tool Dip". > Not to mention Acrylic paint doesn't adhere well to metals. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 10 22:02:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16791 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:02:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15832; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:16:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24003 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:14:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23994 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 21:14:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.161.142]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA22641 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:14:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37B0EB0B.33B2FC60@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:16:27 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How to get grease out of t-shirts References: <37B0C408.4042@wireweb.net> <19990810.174900.4791.1.cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas Well, there are two versions of SHOUT. The pump bottle won't get the grease out as well as the aeresol can will, since the can contains petroleum distillate. They are two different formulas -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 10 23:26:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16968 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:26:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25568; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:41:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA05706 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:38:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.mc.net (mail.mc.net [209.172.128.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA05700 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 22:38:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 1140 invoked from network); 11 Aug 1999 04:38:28 -0000 Received: from chi-209-112-71-106.mc.net (HELO lynnx.enteract.com) (209.112.71.106) by mail.mc.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 1999 04:38:28 -0000 Message-ID: <37B1218E.3F9B@mc.net> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:09:02 -0700 From: lynnx X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: tool dip, removeable boning? References: <199908110144.TAA12571@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Rating: mail.mc.net 1.6.1 0/1000/N Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lynnx > It's basically > > thick acrylic paint. > Hmmm....does this mean you could use acrylic paint to finish bones? > Would it crack? > I have lots of acrylic paint. > Right about the nonacrylic nature of the stuff - my can is called (I think) Plasti-Dip. It works more like a latex or other liquid resin; when it dries the solvent evaporates and it "sets". Heat and so on shouldn't ruin it; I'd try it out on a "test piece" first, maybe a short bone or even the ends of a cut-up coat hanger sewn between a couple pieces of muslin. If you use the tool dip, plasti-dip or whatever, either *do it outside* or wear a NIOSH approved mask... or both. Wouldn't hurt to have either a breeze (outside) or a window fan, facing out of the window, and dip the bone ends right in front of the fan. For that matter, leave 'em there to dry as well. By the way, can you design the boned areas so the bones can be removed before washing, then replaced? (Like: hand-sew the top or bottom of the bodice, then unsew it to take the bones out; wash, put bones back in and whipstitch the open end back together. HTH Heather _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 10 23:48:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16982 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:48:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27333; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:03:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08275 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:00:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08261 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:00:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-107.radiks.net [206.29.243.109]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA20587 for ; Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:59:52 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990810235854.03ca18f8@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:58:54 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: Tool Dip In-Reply-To: <199908110144.TAA12571@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger >- -Poster: "Joel Thompson" >Been listening with interest about the use of "Tool Dip" for coating stay tips. I must admit, it was the first thing that popped into my mind as well. I don't think that it's a simple acrylic paint. It has very strong noxious fumes, and the label contains serious warnings about ventilation etc. It also cautions against the use of the product for any type of food contact. >No, you are correct "Tool Dip" has a STRONG chemical smell and requires >good ventilation. It is definitely NOT ordinary acrylic paint. I think >ordinary acrylic paint would just wear off to easily - it's not thick & >rubbery like the "Tool Dip". >Danielle Woops - You're right - just found my can and checked. Sorry!!! Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 11 01:19:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA17116 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 01:19:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04130; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:34:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA17255 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:31:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA17022; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:29:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from costume (207-172-61-84.s84.tnt1.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.61.84]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA20269; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 02:29:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002901bee3c2$a2909ee0$543daccf@costume> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: Online Costume Ball '99 Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 02:27:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" It is that time of year again! I am now accepting guests to the Online Costume Ball '99. I hope you all have been taking pictures of yourself and loved ones all year to attend the Ball. The webpage you need to go to with directions for submitting your pictures is http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/attend.htm . If you are new to the list, you may also go to this page and click on the archived 1998 Ball. Last year over 60 people from seven countries attended the '98 Ball and year to date over 175,000 people have visited it!!! It has been a blast! We will start today accepting guests and stop Sept. 21st. The Ball will start Sept. 30th! Later... Penny Ladnier The Costume Gallery http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 11 01:38:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA17157 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 01:38:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04878; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:53:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA18972 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:50:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18963 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 00:50:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EHQLNC8E; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 02:49:50 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How to get grease out of t-shirts Message-ID: <19990810.222954.4791.3.cley@juno.com> References: <37B0EB0B.33B2FC60@mediaone.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-19 From: cynthia j ley Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 02:49:50 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: cynthia j ley I use the pump stuff. Works fine. I do recommend letting it soak a bit before washing though. Arlys On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:16:27 -0400 Janice Dallas writes: > >-Poster: Janice Dallas > >Well, there are two versions of SHOUT. The pump bottle won't get the >grease out as well as the aeresol can will, since the can contains >petroleum distillate. They are two different formulas >-- >Janice Dallas >JaniceDals@MediaOne.net >"Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 11 02:34:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA07817 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 02:34:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06964; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 01:48:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA23291 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 01:46:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spdmgaaa.compuserve.com (ds-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.206.134]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23284 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 01:46:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id DAA21171 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 03:45:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 03:44:56 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Bustle dress To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908110344_MC2-808F-D091@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id BAA23285 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson >The magazine suggests that this dress be worn to the seaside, the country, tennis, promenade, picnic and mountain wear. I find it funny that they suggest to wear this costume for mountainwear or tennis. Can you see a lady chasing a tennis ball around in this bustle dress? As I'm walking the geology of the Pennine area (England) in my bustle dress in october I hope they are correct ! I have seen photos of ladies climbing up some pretty serious mountain in bustles too. Although to play tennis the jumper seems the more popular, have you seen Cunninhams costume for sport recreation etc ? Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 11 04:39:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA13691 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 04:39:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA13064; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 03:53:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA20308 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 03:51:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20303 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 03:51:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JEN072A5AO00IVOF@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:57:52 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JEN070GH9W006B5I@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:57:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:50:38 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:50:31 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:50:25 +1100 Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:50:25 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-COST: Finished object(s) (LONG POST) In-reply-to: <199908110144.TAA12571@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 The Wedding was last weekend and the outfit I made for the groom looked great, even if I *do* say somyself. I'm taking a break now for a few days before getting intot he next "soon to be urgent" sewing project. The wedding was in 15th Century kit, involved a procession (with police escort) through Ludlow town from the Registry Office to the Castle, a "medieval" wedding ceremony (just for show) in the Castle Chapel and a picnic in the castle grounds afterwards. Anyone inthe UK who can pick up Central Televison should be able to see it on "Love and Marriage" at 6pm on Sunday 5th and Sunday 12th September. It may be networked to the other ITV regional chanels next year sometime. I made the groom's houpellande. One of the short ones (I forget the name,but I'm sure there is one) that comes down to the hips. He pounted to a picture of one in a book, in blue and gold brocade and told me that was what he wanted, and in that fabric too.... That afternoon I found just the fabric on the rag market in Birmingham and one of my companions (a local girl) haggled with the stall-holder to get the price down from 5 pounds a metre to 4 pounds a metre. The gold is a towards a creamy/beige shade and the blue is "dusky royal" if that makes any sense... somewhere between royal blue and a sort of mid-denim.... The houpellande I made has a fitted inner-layer of cotton drill down to the waist. The garment itself flares from the shoulders to the hem, with all the fullness pulled towards the centre front and back and secured in pleats that are sewn down to the fitted inner layer. The neckline is round at the front and a v at the back. It fastens centre front. The fitted underlayer is laced edge-to edge and is completely hidden by the outer fabric of the garment which is slightly stiffened down the centre front so that it is pulled edge-to edge by, and completely conseals the inner layer. The sleeves narrow down from very full at the shoulder (where they are cartridge pleated) and are open down the outside, with gold buttons and loops so they can be worn unfastened and hanging or fastened and covering the arm to the wrist. The neckline, hem, wrists and sleeve-ipenings are edged in metalic- gold braid (it was meant to be mink guards but I stripped all that off the night before the wedding and replaced it with the gold as the fur made the bottom edge of the garment stick out like a tu-tu and I didn't have enough time left to mess around and get it to sit right!) Showing above the neckline and in the V at the back is a dark-red velvet stand collar (we had decided to go for a collar sewn inside the neckline to give the impression of an under-garment rather than risk the groom having trouble with the heat). The same velvet was used for the fitted undersleeves, which tied into a band of eyelet- tape sewn inside each armhole at the shoulder. These sleeves were open up the back from wrist to just above the elbow. the edges tied together at wrist and just below elbow by black cords with smallmetal points and allowing puffs of very fine cotton shirt to show in the opening (the puffs were false ones tacked into the gaps to avoid having to fuss with the actual shirt sleeves on the morning of the wedding) With this garment, the groom wore a shirt (completely hidden) of thin white silk, a pair of blue cotton damask fitted hose (pointed to the waist of the fitted inner of the houpellande) in dark blue, a hat of blue/green velvet (band around head, small circle pleated to top edge, not bagging very much above it). The brown suede thighboots he wore with it could barely be seen under the leg- armour he also wore (which is lucky because they are *ancient* and have seen a great deal of use on the battlefield) The bride was in a kellow satin cotehardie and a heavy gold brocade sideless surcote with white fur edging to the neck and armholes. It had a long train and was decorated down the front with 4 pairs of ermine tails, joined with gold beads, each pair with a large pearl drop hanging from it. There were also 3 gold chains and 3 strings of pearls in alternating rows draped from shoulder to shoulder across the front so that the top(shortest) chain followed the bottom edge of the fur guard around the neck. My partner (with my help) made the surcote. His first venture into making for someone other than himself (never again, he has vowed....) She also had a beautiful headdress, made by one of the other wedding-guests, with rolls of (false) hair above each ear, bound in nets of pearl beads, a gold-metal coronet in the shape of dragonflies standing wingtip to wingtip around her head and a veil of thin cream silk "cloth of gold" edged in pearls. Her shoes were orange suede, with stuffed pointed toes and a piece coming up high at the back of the ankle with a thin strap going around the ankle from it. All in all they looked great. The whole group looked good even if we did have a few last minute problems, such as the bride's 18 year old son not fitting into his costume (apprentice blacksmith and still growing) so having to borrow an old one of mine (red and gold qhartered cotehardie - the gold matching his mother's surcote, by pure chance). The bride's youngest (aged nine) son couldn't fit his new splints under his boots so had to do with out (I carried him during the procession) and several car-loads of us (including the best-mand and one of the flower girls) had a frantic run through the town to the registry office for the wedding proper after having been delayed in finding parking spaces (Saturday morning in the town centre with a market going on...) As soon as I have pictures,I'll try and get them scanned Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 11 07:53:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14204 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:53:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21591; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:07:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA06608 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:05:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from burlma1-smrt1.gtei.net (burlma1-smrt1.gtei.net [4.2.35.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06599 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from drwho (drwho.sys.gtei.net [4.2.36.23]) by burlma1-smrt1.gtei.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA02394 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:05:05 GMT From: "Asia Reva Poppers" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: Tool Dip Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:05:04 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bee3fa$20cfa1c0$17240204@drwho.sys.gtei.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199908110144.TAA12571@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Asia Reva Poppers" Well, I picked up a jar of stuff called "Plasti-Dip" at Home Depot; I'm assuming it's a very similar product to "Tool-Dip," and it's certainly menat to be used for the same purpose. It does indeed have lots of warnings about ventilation, flammability, etc., so I'll be using it outside to avoid filling my small house with fumes. I may also finish some of the bones with nail polish so I can compare results and decide which method I like best. Thanks again to everyone who responded on the list and privately with suggestions and information about these methods. I'll be placing the grommets in the corset tonight, and once I've tried it on, the bones get dipped, the edges get bound and Voila! It's not art, but it's my first attempt, and so far it looks like it's going to work. I appreciate all the help! Asia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 11 08:01:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14242 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:01:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22338; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:16:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07732 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:14:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (firewall-user@fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07726 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:14:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id OAA16751; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:18:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by net.indra.com, id smtpd016747; Wed Aug 11 14:18:53 1999 Received: by cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 06:16:50 -0700 Message-ID: From: Betsy Perry To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: How to get grease out of t-shirts Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 06:16:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Betsy Perry Sometimes baby shampoo works very well for getting grease stains out of cotton. I got this hint from Lands' End. After I saw the hint, I grabbed a knit shirt which had a grease stain on the bosom, and which I'd washed and dried repeatedly without making a dent. I rubbed baby shampoo into the spot, washed with a normal load, and poof! no stain. I would recommend a baby shampoo that doesn't have conditioner added, of course. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 11 08:03:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14258 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:03:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22607; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:18:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA08065 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:16:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (firewall-user@fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08055 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:16:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id OAA16843; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:21:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by net.indra.com, id smtpd016837; Wed Aug 11 14:21:13 1999 Received: by cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 06:19:10 -0700 Message-ID: From: Betsy Perry To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Bustle Dress Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 06:19:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Betsy Perry I once read a Victorian memoir whose author pointed out that when ladies played tennis, the men were expected to pat the ball _to_ them. It was very bad manners to slam the ball overhand to a lady. People adapted their activities to their clothes, not always vice versa. > -----Original Message----- > From: Penny Ladnier [mailto:penny.creative.outlets@erols.com] > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 1999 4:01 PM > To: h-costume > Subject: H-COST: Bustle Dress > > I find it funny > that they > suggest to wear this costume for mountainwear or tennis. Can > you see a lady > chasing a tennis ball around in this bustle dress? Maybe the magazine > should have stated wearing to watch a tennis game. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 11 08:30:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14314 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:30:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24599; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:45:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA11402 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:41:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pony.cleanweb.net (cw40.cleanweb.net [208.145.1.150]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA11391 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:41:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11044 invoked from network); 11 Aug 1999 15:42:22 -0000 Received: from ws27.tpcgi.com (HELO tpcgi.com) (208.135.251.61) by cw40.cleanweb.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 1999 15:42:22 -0000 Message-ID: <37B17EA5.190E0E9F@tpcgi.com> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:09:23 -0500 From: Paula Hanna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How to get grease out of t-shirts References: <19990714.115941.5231.8.kayherb@juno.com> <3.0.1.32.19990810201602.00977af0@mail.interlog.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Paula Hanna >How does one get a >greasy food stain out of a cotton t-shirt after it has already been washed? Get some Dawn. I had a skirt that I had washed about twenty times, and the liquid dish soap just pulled it right out. Squeeze enough out to cover the stain, then throw it in the wash as usual. Paula _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 11 08:34:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14324 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:33:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24924; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:48:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA12343 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:46:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from RBAD33.RBACRXCLU.BAS.ROCHE.COM (mail-external-basel.bas.roche.com [196.3.50.190]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12336 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 07:46:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rbamsemcn1.bas.roche.com (rbamsemcn1.bas.roche.com [145.245.211.139]) by Roche.COM (PMDF V5.2-31 #33472) with ESMTP id <01JENA9LX80A9ERAAS@Roche.COM> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:46:04 +0200 Received: by rbamsemcn1.bas.roche.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:46:02 +0200 Content-return: allowed Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:46:01 +0200 From: "Holliday, Rachel {DISC~Welwyn}" Subject: H-COST: Kirby Hall - Saturday To: "Historic Costume List (E-mail)" Message-id: <431EB483DFB4D111A2D50000F843C5C401009EC1@rwemsem2.wel.roche.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sensitivity: Company-Confidential Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Holliday, Rachel {DISC~Welwyn}" I have decided to take the risk and go to Kirby Hall on Saturday. I won't be in costume but I hope to meet up with a few of you while I am there. I was going to stick a picture of myself up on my webpage so people at least had an idea of what I looked like. Unfortunately I hate cameras so the only photos I could lay my hands on were from about 6 years ago. I will attempt a description of myself, but you'll probably be able to recognise me more from my partner than myself. Right I about 5'8" brown shoulder length curly hair, glasses, slim build. Noticeably very pale (the only person to go to Florida in May and come home without a tan!). Simon is a better bet as he really stands out. He's 6'2", shaved head, red goatee beard, very large (48" chest! and I'm making a waistcoat for that I must be mad!). So if you see two people answer these descriptions its probably us, please come up and say hello. Elizabeth (Rachel - will answer to both) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 11 09:06:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14369 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 09:06:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28588; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:21:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA17736 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:18:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17728 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 08:18:57 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6CWWa01827 (4465) for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:18:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 10:18:20 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Bustle Dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 08/11/1999 9:17:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, betsyp@roguewave.com writes: << I once read a Victorian memoir whose author pointed out that when ladies played tennis, the men were expected to pat the ball _to_ them. It was very bad manners to slam the ball overhand to a lady. People adapted their activities to their clothes, not always vice versa. >> And tennis...being a very old sport [Henry V anyone?] has been played by men in some outrageous outfits....doublets & hose for instance. The women may be in bustles but the men are in starched collars. And yes...it was a different game in all these periods. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 11 15:24:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15533 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:24:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24702; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:34:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA10183 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:31:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from email.boisestate.edu (email.boisestate.edu [132.178.16.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10157 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:31:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cobfac.boisestate.edu (cobfac.boisestate.edu [132.178.51.3]) by email.boisestate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24942 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:32:38 -0600 Message-Id: <199908112032.OAA24942@email.boisestate.edu> Received: from COBFAC/SpoolDir by cobfac.boisestate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 11 Aug 99 14:31:16 -0700 Received: from SpoolDir by COBFAC (Mercury 1.44); 11 Aug 99 14:30:47 -0700 From: "Linda Yordy" Organization: College of Business & Economics To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:30:38 -0700 Subject: H-COST: Trim on 1360 dress Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002901bee3c2$a2909ee0$543daccf@costume> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Linda Yordy" In the painting of "St Catherine of Siena and Other Saints" by Giovanni da Milano, c. 1360, the women are wearing gowns (cotehardies) with a gold band of trim at the square necklines. They seem to have a design on the band. What sort of fabric?, embroidery?, textile craft? would they have used to make this trim? If this picture is truly representative of the fabrics used at the time, would this trim have been "cloth of gold"? You can view this picture at http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Cotumes/text/ Middle.Gothic/CG07.html. If you have trouble going directly to the specific picture, go to http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Cotumes/text/ Cost.Per_Styles.html then go to the link "Middle Gothic" then the link "index" then to the link Giovanni da Milano (1346-1396). Thanks! Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 11 15:30:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15541 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:30:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25946; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:42:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12318 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:39:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12296 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:39:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA14937 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:40:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B1DFF6.AEE851C0@serv.net> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 13:41:27 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Trim on 1360 dress References: <199908112032.OAA24942@email.boisestate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > In the painting of "St Catherine of Siena and Other Saints" by > Giovanni da Milano, c. 1360, the women are wearing gowns > (cotehardies) with a gold band of trim at the square necklines. They > seem to have a design on the band. What sort of fabric?, > embroidery?, textile craft? Well, the fabric looks like silk. The gold band of trim is probably couched gold done in a type of trellis work. I have no picture to send you but I have seen close ups of embroidery in this time in Italy on cotehardies and that is usually what it looks like to me. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 11 15:46:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15556 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:46:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27999; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:58:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16422 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:56:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16413 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 14:56:11 -0600 (MDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6RQWa28682 (4311) for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:55:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:55:24 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Trim on 1360 dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com << In the painting of "St Catherine of Siena and Other Saints" by Giovanni da Milano, c. 1360, the women are wearing gowns (cotehardies) with a gold band of trim at the square necklines. They seem to have a design on the band. What sort of fabric?, embroidery?, textile craft? would they have used to make this trim? If this picture is truly representative of the fabrics used at the time, would this trim have been "cloth of gold"? >> Unfortunately, all contemporary authors simply refer to "gold bands." But they could have been any of the following: loomwoven bands; brocaded tabletwoven bands; embroidered bands, appliqued strips of fabric. Any and all of these used gold thread during the Middle Ages, and all of them were used to trim garments. Nancy (Ingvild) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 11 17:40:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15703 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:40:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14715; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:53:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11226 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:50:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11209 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:50:48 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip195.van23.pacifier.com [216.65.138.195]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id PAA14477 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908112250.PAA14477@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 15:52:32 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Trim on 1360 dress Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199908112032.OAA24942@email.boisestate.edu> References: <002901bee3c2$a2909ee0$543daccf@costume> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > In the painting of "St Catherine of Siena and Other Saints" by > Giovanni da Milano, c. 1360, the women are wearing gowns > (cotehardies) with a gold band of trim at the square necklines. They > seem to have a design on the band. What sort of fabric?, > embroidery?, textile craft? would they have used to make this trim? > If this picture is truly representative of the fabrics used at the time, > would this trim have been "cloth of gold"? They could definitely make trims in that time period but some of the details of similar paintings it looks like embroidery. Also, embroidery can be done as a separate piece which essentially becomes trim. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 11 18:19:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15759 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:19:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19025; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:33:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18704 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:30:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1106.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.126]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA18694 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:30:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990811232739.17199.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [38.226.171.45] by web1106.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:27:39 PDT Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 16:27:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell Subject: RE: H-COST: Bustle Dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carol Mitchell Watch the movie Gigi to see what a woman looked like playing tennis in a bustle. On the other hand, women being seriously hurt or killed bicycling helped bring about shorter skirts for sportswear. Carol > === Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 11 18:25:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15766 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 18:25:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19662; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:38:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA19560 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:36:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19545 for ; Wed, 11 Aug 1999 17:36:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA00831 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:06:05 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA00542; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:14:19 +0930 Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:14:11 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Bustle Dress In-Reply-To: <19990811232739.17199.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 11 Aug 1999, Carol Mitchell wrote: > > -Poster: Carol Mitchell > > Watch the movie Gigi to see what a woman looked like playing tennis in > a bustle. On the other hand, women being seriously hurt or killed > bicycling helped bring about shorter skirts for sportswear. I've ridden bicycles in long skirts. It's possible, although the skirt has a tendency to catch in the chain (and the brakes, and the gears.....), which is kind of annoying. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 09:49:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00804 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:49:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08971; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:02:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA18341 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 08:59:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18327 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 08:59:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6SHFa16287 (4570) for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:59:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7f1164d.24e43b35@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:59:01 EDT Subject: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Hey, has anyone seen the new Simplicity Elizabethan gown? No corset (although the bodice is boned and looks generally the right shape) and no shift, but it DOES have: a partlet a hooped farthingale a bum roll a gored underskirt a CARTRIDGE PLEATED overskirt ruffs a pretty sleeve I am so impressed. It is just amazing to me that this was put out by a commercial pattern company! It's no Janet Arnold, but I see entry-level Elizabethan costuming skyrocketing as I write this. After all, once you've done all THAT, how hard a leap could it be to trying out a corset? and then a better bodice? and then . . . I didn't get to check out anything more than the store display, which had one more new costume -- "The Celtic Line." It's your basic fantasy Celtic stuff, with a weird front-lacing bodice, but it was attractive and at least has a very full skirt. Keep your eye out for more of that look at Renfairs and SCA events. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 10:06:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00885 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:06:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11486; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:19:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA22096 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:17:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22082 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:17:05 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA31504 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:17:00 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA18652 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:17:00 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:17:00 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown In-Reply-To: <7f1164d.24e43b35@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com A hooped skirt!?! Pattern number please!! Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Thu, 12 Aug 1999 Gaelscot@aol.com wrote: > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:59:01 EDT > From: Gaelscot@aol.com > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume-digest@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown > > > -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > > > > Hey, has anyone seen the new Simplicity Elizabethan gown? No corset (although > the bodice is boned and looks generally the right shape) and no shift, but it > DOES have: > > a partlet > a hooped farthingale > a bum roll > a gored underskirt > a CARTRIDGE PLEATED overskirt > ruffs > a pretty sleeve > > I am so impressed. It is just amazing to me that this was put out by a > commercial pattern company! It's no Janet Arnold, but I see entry-level > Elizabethan costuming skyrocketing as I write this. After all, once you've > done all THAT, how hard a leap could it be to trying out a corset? and then a > better bodice? and then . . . > > I didn't get to check out anything more than the store display, which had one > more new costume -- "The Celtic Line." It's your basic fantasy Celtic stuff, > with a weird front-lacing bodice, but it was attractive and at least has a > very full skirt. Keep your eye out for more of that look at Renfairs and SCA > events. > > Gail Finke > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 10:33:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00962 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:33:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14697; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:46:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27747 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:43:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27734 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:43:54 -0600 (MDT) From: BarbMVD@aol.com Received: from BarbMVD@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6DGYa05147 (4073) for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:42:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:42:59 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: BarbMVD@aol.com ches@io.com writes: << but I see entry-level Elizabethan costuming skyrocketing as I write this. >> But is good enough, really what you are looking for? We still see the wasted fabric, wasted time, and just not right appearance of the commercial patterns for rev war costuming over the past twentyfive years. And then, maybe this is not high on your list of priorities. If "looks generally the right shape" is what you want then it's a goldmine - - good luck! Barbara Delorey A new list 18cWoman !!! A place to discuss everything about women in the 18th century, clothing, manners, mores, status, condition, and more. Stories of actual women, excerpts from letters & diaries, sources for study. Emphasis on regional differences, and the abilities displayed in home and the running of businesses. An exploration of how events affected their lives. To subscribe to the 18cWoman list, go to : http://onelist.com Sign up as a new member - (or if already a member) you will find our list under education / history. Follow directions to subscribe. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 11:03:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01003 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:03:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18851; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA04377 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:13:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from email.boisestate.edu (email.boisestate.edu [132.178.16.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04361 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:13:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cobfac.boisestate.edu (cobfac.boisestate.edu [132.178.51.3]) by email.boisestate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16780 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:14:57 -0600 Message-Id: <199908121614.KAA16780@email.boisestate.edu> Received: from COBFAC/SpoolDir by cobfac.boisestate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 12 Aug 99 10:13:34 -0700 Received: from SpoolDir by COBFAC (Mercury 1.44); 12 Aug 99 10:13:28 -0700 From: "Linda Yordy" Organization: College of Business & Economics To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:13:27 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Trim on 1360 dress Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199908112250.PAA14477@eclipse.pacifier.com> References: <199908112032.OAA24942@email.boisestate.edu> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Linda Yordy" > They could definitely make trims in that time period but some of the > details of similar paintings it looks like embroidery. Yes, the general consensus is that it is embroidery. I was reading (well skimming) the book "Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince" by Stell Mary Newton. She says that they used bezants (metal castings), pearls, and precious gems on their clothing. I believe they worked them in with embroidered designs but also "powdered" them on the garment. If I were to use a contrasting-colored band and embroider it with bezants and pearls or gold beads, I assume I would be doing something fairly period? Thanks again, Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 11:10:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01024 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:10:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19675; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:23:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06057 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:21:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06049 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:21:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA08034 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:22:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B2F4F6.7E2CCC7D@serv.net> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:23:18 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Trim on 1360 dress References: <199908112032.OAA24942@email.boisestate.edu> <199908121614.KAA16780@email.boisestate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > If I were to use a contrasting-colored band and embroider it with > bezants and pearls or gold beads, I assume I would be doing > something fairly period? Yes. The bezants would probably not have been on the trim though. They would have been powdered over the body of the garment as you said. And I don't think they were cast, I believe (and have seen extant bezants) that they are sheet metal that has been hammered into a mold then cut out. -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 11:48:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01055 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:48:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23134; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:47:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11203 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:44:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from email.boisestate.edu (email.boisestate.edu [132.178.16.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11194 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:44:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cobfac.boisestate.edu (cobfac.boisestate.edu [132.178.51.3]) by email.boisestate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29488 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:46:07 -0600 Message-Id: <199908121646.KAA29488@email.boisestate.edu> Received: from COBFAC/SpoolDir by cobfac.boisestate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 12 Aug 99 10:44:44 -0700 Received: from SpoolDir by COBFAC (Mercury 1.44); 12 Aug 99 10:44:40 -0700 From: "Linda Yordy" Organization: College of Business & Economics To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:44:32 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Trim on 1360 dress Priority: normal In-reply-to: <37B2F4F6.7E2CCC7D@serv.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Linda Yordy" > Yes. The bezants would probably not have been on the trim though. They > would have been powdered over the body of the garment as you said. Would the pearls or gems be on the band? To my eyes (and computer monitor), the picture looks like the band has more dimension than just embroidery. >And I > don't think they were cast, I believe (and have seen extant bezants) that > they are sheet metal that has been hammered into a mold then cut out. Oh, that's how they did it. I saw a picture of a mold and just assumed they were cast. I found what I might call bezants in our local bead shop. They are about 1 inch in size, metal, but they are somewhat filigree -- well, they have holes in the design, if that makes sense. Will these imitate period bezants or were period bezants solid shapes? Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 12:07:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01082 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:07:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25974; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:06:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15299 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:04:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15286 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:03:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA08932 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B2FEE6.63F3A17@serv.net> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:05:43 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Trim on 1360 dress References: <199908121646.KAA29488@email.boisestate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > Would the pearls or gems be on the band? To my eyes (and > computer monitor), the picture looks like the band has more > dimension than just embroidery. Yes they would. Definitely. > Oh, that's how they did it. I saw a picture of a mold and just > assumed they were cast. I found what I might call bezants in our > local bead shop. They are about 1 inch in size, metal, but they are > somewhat filigree -- well, they have holes in the design, if that > makes sense. Will these imitate period bezants or were period > bezants solid shapes? Bezants for 14th century England were solid little pieces with designs stamped on them or cut from stamped shapes. The only hole being the one used to sew them on to the garment. *From what I can tell so far in my research.* I would get something like a disk with a sun on it or a little four petaled flower. Lightbown, R. W. ; Mediaeval European jewellery : with a catalogue of the collection in the Victoria and Albert Museum / Ronald W. Lightbown, Pub. info London : Victoria and Albert Museum with the assistance of the Getty Grant Program, 1992 There is a statue of the Christ Child with a satin dress entirely covered with bezants. While the gown was remade in the 17th century, the bezants are as old as the 14th century. The unicorn is *not* one of the 14th century bezants. :) But this might give you a good idea. I found the book through my local University library. You can try your local library or ILL. And this book is absolutely gorgeous. You can still purchase it for about $250US through the V&A. >From what I understand about bezants is that the word comes from Byzantium. A Marquisse I know has done more research on these than I but if you start digging into byzantine costuming you might find more info. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 12:53:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01219 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:53:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05337; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:06:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28454 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:03:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28443 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:03:35 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07262 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:03:30 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25705 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:03:29 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:03:29 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com I have never seen a hoop skirt pattern for sale commercially like this. I was asking for the pattern number not for an opinion. I know what the general opinion of these patterns are. :) So rest easy and let us find out what we want to know. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Thu, 12 Aug 1999 BarbMVD@aol.com wrote: > Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:42:59 EDT > From: BarbMVD@aol.com > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown > > > -Poster: BarbMVD@aol.com > > ches@io.com writes: << but I see entry-level Elizabethan costuming > skyrocketing as I write this. >> > > But is good enough, really what you are looking for? We still see the wasted > fabric, wasted time, and just not right appearance of the commercial patterns > for rev war costuming over the past twentyfive years. And then, maybe this > is not high on your list of priorities. If "looks generally the right shape" > is what you want then it's a goldmine - - good luck! > > Barbara Delorey > A new list 18cWoman !!! > A place to discuss everything about women in the 18th century, clothing, > manners, mores, status, condition, and more. Stories of actual women, > excerpts from letters & diaries, sources for study. Emphasis on regional > differences, and the abilities displayed in home and the running of > businesses. An exploration of how events affected their lives. > To subscribe to the 18cWoman list, go to : http://onelist.com > Sign up as a new member - (or if already a member) you will find our list > under education / history. Follow directions to subscribe. > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 13:15:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01248 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:15:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08313; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:27:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02821 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:24:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02808 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:24:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA10699 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:25:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B311CD.D1D36CD8@serv.net> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:26:22 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > But is good enough, really what you are looking for? We still see the wasted > fabric, wasted time, and just not right appearance of the commercial patterns > for rev war costuming over the past twentyfive years. Wasted fabric and wasted time is in the mind of the doer and it doesn't matter what someone else thinks. :) Until they ask. :) If I had had a decent pattern early on I wouldn't have wasted the fabric. *urg* Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 13:25:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01271 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:25:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09954; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:38:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05073 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:36:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05059 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:36:12 -0600 (MDT) From: BarbMVD@aol.com Received: from BarbMVD@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6RTZa02406 (2616) for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:34:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1621f16f.24e46dcd@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:34:53 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: BarbMVD@aol.com My apologies for offending the list with a simple voiced opinion. I forgot that many SCA march to a different drum. ;^) Barbara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 13:34:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01284 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:34:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11144; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:47:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06848 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:45:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06831 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:45:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11161 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:46:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B316B4.C2E15B3E@serv.net> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:47:17 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown References: <1621f16f.24e46dcd@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > My apologies for offending the list with a simple voiced opinion. I forgot > that many SCA march to a different drum. ;^) I've found that when it comes to *my* needs for authenticity in the SCA, *most* march to that different drummer. I figure I'm the exception not the rule. :) :) Also, many, many of the folks on this list are *not* SCA, but costumers for theatre and film, teachers, other types of reenactors, and folks who are just looking for something to wear to someone's party. :) Welcome to the diverse world of Historical Costume! There are some great folks here with lots of expertise. And plenty to discuss really really stringent authenticity as well. :) Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 13:39:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01308 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:39:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11577; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:52:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07531 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:49:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07521 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:49:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990812184934.NOIW24388.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 11:49:34 -0700 Message-ID: <37B3173D.5AAE2773@home.com> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:49:33 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown References: <1621f16f.24e46dcd@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent BarbMVD@aol.com wrote: > > My apologies for offending the list with a simple voiced opinion. I > forgot that many SCA march to a different drum. ;^) First, I don't intend to be flaming *anyone* but I *will* express my opinion. I don't know about anyone else but your post rather struck me as a criticism of any person using commercial patterns (eg Simplicity, McCall's etc) as opposed to "a simple voiced opinion". My costuming at this point is primarily theatrical, although I *do* try to maintain historical accuracy (I costume for my dad who also teaches AP History in addition to Drama), I quite often use commercial patterns as the basis for my costumes. It's much easier for *me* to change something slightly (and many of the new patterns do *not* need that much changing) than to draft an entire new pattern or buy a pattern that is accurate but costs me $20 as opposed to $0.99 (I always buy on sale unless someone else is paying for it! ). This may be true of others. Just because one uses a commercial pattern as a basis (which is what I believe the original poster was saying...please correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't imply that one is letting historical accuracy fly to the five winds. I hope that this explains my position on the matter...if I am not clear, please let me know and we can discuss it privately. TIA! Kat (now going to deal with a 6yo who wants "oreos now!!") _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 13:43:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01324 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:43:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12252; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:56:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA08468 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:54:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chupacabras.flash.net (chupacabras.flash.net [209.30.6.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08453 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:54:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p237.amax10.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.66.237]) by chupacabras.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12737 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:54:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37B2449C.FD223D67@flash.net> Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:50:52 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Subject: H-COST: republishing/reprinting books Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette This is slightly off-topic, but I know there are people on this list who may be have some pointers. There is a book that I'm interesting in getting reprinted/republished. I've been told by one source that it's out of copyright. So my question is how do I go about determining if it truly is out of copyright (originally published in Germany with English versions printed in the UK and the US)? And, yes, I'm also checking with the original publisher to see if they are interested in reprinting. Thanks, --Charlene -- Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest. -- Mark Twain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 13:48:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01335 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:48:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12939; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:01:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09381 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:58:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09373 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:58:49 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6DOUa20497 (7812) for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:58:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <691f5298.24e47334@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:57:56 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 08/12/1999 2:37:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BarbMVD@aol.com writes: << My apologies for offending the list with a simple voiced opinion. I forgot that many SCA march to a different drum. ;^) >> I'm not a nut for complete accuracy myself but I must agree with your reservations about this pattern....which I haven't seen. What I want to know is...What does it offer that Janet Arnold does not? A full size pattern in your size? Janet's are gridded & if you know your measurements you can come up with a pattern that will surly require no more or less alteration than a generic commercial pattern. [Especially if the proper corset is worn.....something missing from the commercial pattern] Now I use commercial patterns all the time for neck curves, shoulder slopes, armseyes, so I don't want to sound like I think the pattern is useless. My question is sincere. What do you get that can't be found in more reliable sources? Instructions? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 14:12:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01386 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:12:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15767; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13872 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:22:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13859 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id MAA10675 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:18:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B31E73.FAD5AF8B@best.com> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:20:19 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: republishing/reprinting books References: <37B2449C.FD223D67@flash.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press Charlene Charette wrote: > -Poster: Charlene Charette > > This is slightly off-topic, but I know there are people on this list who > may be have some pointers. There is a book that I'm interesting in > getting reprinted/republished. I've been told by one source that it's > out of copyright. So my question is how do I go about determining if it > truly is out of copyright (originally published in Germany with English > versions printed in the UK and the US)? And, yes, I'm also checking > with the original publisher to see if they are interested in reprinting. > > Thanks, > --Charlene If the orginal publishers or author cannot clear this up for you, have a copyright search done in each country of publication. According to my lawyer, most countries abide by each others' copyright laws but the laws are not identical in each country. If the book is still copyrighted in any country in which copyright was initially registered, the procedure is not to reprint it until that copyright expires. That is, take the most recent copyright as valid. The translation has a separate copyright and its date might not be the same as that of the book in the original language. In the US copyright searches are done by copyright search firms. I do not know whether such firms exist in other countries, but I suspect so. I would suggest contacting a US firm first and see what they can do for you in other countries, or what they would recommend. Hope this helps, Fran Grimble --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 14:12:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01385 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:12:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15765; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13938 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:22:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net (svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13920 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:22:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem63.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.191] helo=herimats) by svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 11F0Ql-0005Ow-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:22:27 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01bee4f7$ffdd49a0$bf065cc3@herimats> From: "Lester D Mundy" To: References: <37B2449C.FD223D67@flash.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: republishing/reprinting books Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:21:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Lester D Mundy" Charlene, If what you are planning to do involves you in any cost at this stage. ie before you actaully begin any printing etc. Your best is bet is to get each version checked out by a professional in the copy right laws of both continent. I would not even trust the word of the original publisher. Remember the translation into English is a completely different copyright to the original work. Dont take any kind of advice from anywhere else., esp; here. Most web sources are out of date with current European law, and will be again in 4and a half months time; Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters > -Poster: Charlene Charette > > This is slightly off-topic, but I know there are people on this list who > may be have some pointers. There is a book that I'm interesting in > getting reprinted/republished. I've been told by one source that it's > out of copyright. So my question is how do I go about determining if it > truly is out of copyright (originally published in Germany with English > versions printed in the UK and the US)? And, yes, I'm also checking > with the original publisher to see if they are interested in reprinting. > > Thanks, > --Charlene > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 14:36:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01444 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:36:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19090; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:49:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19086 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:47:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hpamgaad.compuserve.com (ah-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.217.158]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19076 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:47:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaad.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.8) id PAA10985 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:46:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:46:02 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Kirby Hall To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908121546_MC2-80D0-BFD1@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA19079 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson Come & say hi to me, I'll be in the Wulfingas camp 5th C and have two small gitls with me, I'll be cooking, spinning or potting I guess Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 14:59:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01466 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:59:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22743; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:13:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23936 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:10:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:root@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23927 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:10:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.151.9.13] (th-0-4.patriot.net [206.151.9.13] (may be forged)) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA32361 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:10:32 -0400 Message-Id: <199908122010.QAA32361@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown Date: Thu, 12 Aug 99 16:12:55 -0000 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat wrote, >I'm not a nut for complete accuracy myself but I must agree with your >reservations about this pattern....which I haven't seen. What I want to know >is...What does it offer that Janet Arnold does not? A full size pattern in >your size? Janet's are gridded & if you know your measurements you can come >up with a pattern that will surly require no more or less alteration than a >generic commercial pattern. Easy for you to say, as well as most on this list. Not everyone is skilled at spatial relationships or quite "gets" how to grid a pattern to size. It seems easy to many of us, but remember how long we've been at this! >[Especially if the proper corset is worn.....something missing from the >commercial pattern] Also a good point. Most of today's clothes don't fit unless they stretch to do so. Many people don't know what a good fit is, let alone how to do it. If they can buy a pattern that's close to their size, then the fit is good enough for them. >My question is sincere. >What do you get that can't be found in more reliable sources? Instructions? Independence and creativity. Being able to use the gridded patterns takes a bit of instruction. The original garments are described, wich may lead me to look for that fabric or research a period substitute. I might have to underline a modern fabric to get it to behave like a period fabric. When fabrics are suggested, it's easier and I can pock any poplin or broadcloth I like! On the other hand, Simplicity is improving their costume patterns. This means the average at Ren Faires and the like will improve! -Carol Kocian _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 15:01:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01490 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:01:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23015; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:14:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24251 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:12:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24241 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:12:01 -0600 (MDT) From: BarbMVD@aol.com Received: from BarbMVD@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6VWCa16280 (4233) for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:11:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:11:08 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: BarbMVD@aol.com kdyer@home.com writes:<< I don't know about anyone else but your post rather struck me as a criticism of any person using commercial patterns (eg Simplicity, McCall's etc) as opposed to "a simple voiced opinion". >> Oh well, I certainly didn't mean to strike you one way or another. As a historical costumer of some thirty years experience, I have no intention of criticizing anyone, only of pointing out a caution on something that I have seen occurring over and over again in reenacting which is my field. That is the regret that the individual didn't wait and seek advice before grabbing something that looked right. Many have said to me in my classes on 18c dressmaking - I wish I had known this before. The original post that I answered seemed to hail this new pattern as heavensent and perhaps for many it is, as I thought I had conveyed. In taking a brief look at costume in all its phases, clothing, hairstyle, accessories, cosmetics, posture, activity, it is rewarding to see the results of ongoing research and "a love of the game." Unlike theatrical costuming the reenactor cannot take advantage of the barrier zone afforded by the proscenium arch, each one meets the audience face to face, toe to toe. The goal of the reenactor and historical interpreter is to convince others that they are talking to real, living men and women of whatever century they depict. You said: <> and this is why I answered, what I was referring to in the original post was the mention that then the individual might later be encouraged to do a better bodice, etc., etc., the very redoing process which is necessary if the individual does become more discriminating after wasting time and fabric. Enough said, it is a personal opinion on a subject I run into constantly. I shall tread more cautiously in the future. Barbara Delorey barbmvd@aol.com List Manager: 18cWoman DAR/Reenactors: http://hometown.aol.com/barbmvd/page/dar.htm Battle Road Clothing: http://www.ziplink.net/~mrkmcc/delory.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 15:08:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01501 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:07:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23932; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:21:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25861 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:19:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25851 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:18:59 -0600 (MDT) From: Kelykreats@aol.com Received: from Kelykreats@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6KROa23997 (4236) for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:17:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:17:26 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Kirby Hall To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kelykreats@aol.com I'd like to know if your posting is about Pennsic. If so, I will be there as well . Camp 28 "Sebastain's Place" with the Barony of Blackstone. Kelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 15:27:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01533 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:27:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26496; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:40:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA29671 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:37:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ogopogo.flash.net (ogopogo.flash.net [209.30.6.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29658 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:37:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p251.amax50.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.106.251]) by ogopogo.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03002 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:37:28 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37B3305A.BAD646A1@flash.net> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:36:42 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: republishing/reprinting books References: <37B2449C.FD223D67@flash.net> <000a01bee4f7$ffdd49a0$bf065cc3@herimats> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette Lester D Mundy wrote: > Charlene, If what you are planning to do involves you in any cost at this > stage. ie before you actaully begin any printing etc. Your best is bet is to > get each version checked out by a professional in the copy right laws of > both continent. I would not even trust the word of the original publisher. > Remember the translation into English is a completely different copyright to > the original work. Dont take any kind of advice from anywhere else., esp; > here. The book is almost impossible to find used at a reasonable cost. This is not being done as part of a business, but because I thought it would be useful to try to get the book reprinted. At present I'm looking for low-cost methods to do a preliminary search -- if they turn up that the book is in copyright then I stop right there. If the initial inquiries show it *might* be OK to do a reprint, then I can spend the funds to hire a professional and proceed from there. So I guess what I'm really looking for are ways of doing the preliminary checking. Thank you for your advice, --Charlene -- Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest. -- Mark Twain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 17:12:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01707 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:12:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11735; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:24:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20409 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:21:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA20395 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:21:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from airmail.net from [207.136.22.177] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.405) with esmtp for sender: id ; Thu, 12 Aug 99 17:21:11 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37B34690.1FDBCD72@airmail.net> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:11:28 -0500 From: Megan & David Schmidt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown References: <691f5298.24e47334@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Megan & David Schmidt AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: {LARGE SNIP}My question is sincere. > What do you get that can't be found in more reliable sources? Instructions? > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME This is the voice of a relative newbie here. I am a decent seamstress, but not great. I enjoy learning about historical costuming, however, I am not doing much with the information I am learning from this list (real life is keeping me TOO busy right now). Going from gridded patterns to a full size pattern is overwhelming to me. Along with making sure I get the "proper" fabric, the "period" accessories, and all that stuff. It might SEEM to someone inexperienced that it's easier to just pick up a simplicity pattern at the local fabric store than to order a $20 pattern from somewhere or to draft a pattern from a gridded drawing. Just a thought. And please be gentle with folks like me.....some of us learn from our mistakes. If you are too harsh with your analysis of a costume, you just might not be asked for your opinion again. Be GENTLE (give the whole truth, but be gentle about it) Megan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 17:14:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01711 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:14:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11874; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20926 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:23:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20915 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:23:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.96.178.104] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11F3Fv-0001gC-00; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:23:27 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990812222029.00731888@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:20:29 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 01:49 PM 8/12/99 -0500, you wrote: >First, I don't intend to be flaming *anyone* but I *will* express my >opinion. I don't know about anyone else but your post rather struck me >as a criticism of any person using commercial patterns (eg Simplicity, >McCall's etc) as opposed to "a simple voiced opinion". My costuming at >this point is primarily theatrical, although I *do* try to maintain >historical accuracy (I costume for my dad who also teaches AP History in >addition to Drama), I quite often use commercial patterns as the basis >for my costumes. It's much easier for *me* to change something slightly >(and many of the new patterns do *not* need that much changing) than to >draft an entire new pattern or buy a pattern that is accurate but costs >me $20 as opposed to $0.99 (I always buy on sale unless someone else is >paying for it! ). This may be true of others. Just because one >uses a commercial pattern as a basis (which is what I believe the >original poster was saying...please correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't >imply that one is letting historical accuracy fly to the five winds. I >hope that this explains my position on the matter...if I am not clear, >please let me know and we can discuss it privately. TIA! > >Kat >(now going to deal with a 6yo who wants "oreos now!!") > _________________________________________________________________ Using most commercially made patterns DOES mean letting accuracy fly to the winds. Oh, there are patterns that are taken from original garments that are available, and SOME are good. However the ones we seem to be speaking of are the simplicity type. These are not accurate, and simple changes does not make them accurate. One may manipulate a pattern and make it appear more accurate, but there are just to many differences. Seams are not in the same places. Pattern pieces are cut differently. Now I own that I am making generalizations. More recent clothes may very well be altered from these patterns, but not most fashions of days long gone. Now...is this important, not necessarily. As was mentioned costumes ARE made for different reasons and that is fine, but not needing to be accurate, or not being able to afford accuracy, while it may be a suitable reason to let accuracy lapse does not change that it has. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 17:34:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01782 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:34:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14511; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:47:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25066 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:45:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25053 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:45:15 -0600 (MDT) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6RJHa09417 (4457) for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:44:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:44:41 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com The pattern number is 0679 and it comes in sizes 6-20, but keep in mind the pattern companies sometimes change numbers on you after an initial release. Currently I've only seen this pattern in the Halloween costume display stand Simplicity has at my local G Street. I have yet to see it surface at any of my local JoAnnes. I think this is one of Simplicity's best patterns yet, it looks similar to one of the dresses Gweneth Paltrow wears in Shakespeare in Love, I think it's the one at the dance he sneaks in to meet her at, but I've only seen it once so don't quote me on that. And, as others have said before, it comes with patterns/instructions for neck and wrist ruffs, bum roll and farthingdale as well as bodice with faked detachable sleeves, faked partlet, skirt and underskirt. As for the criticisms people have of this pattern, I agree with what someone else said - not all people are as gifted at pattern drafting as the rest of you! For someone who wants a period *impression* it's not a bad pattern. I would also hazard a guess that most people will be wearing this dress to their local Renaissance Faires *as paying guests*, and therefore not aiming to educate anyone about anything. Most faires are too restrictive of what their staff wears for this to make it on the staff end of things. Geeze, many of the guests I see at faire are dressed as barbarians, vampires or Star Fleet officers, if they bother to get dressed in costume at all. (And personally, if you're a guest why should anyone care what you wear?) I'd have thought people would welcome the idea of more folks in costumes even remotely resembling the period, but maybe that's just me... And If the Titanic dresses were any indication maybe a few teenagers will want to emmulate Gweneth Paltrow and will wear it to their proms. In other words, the market for this dress is not the recreation/reinactment crowd but those who like to get dressed up in costume "just for fun." I plan to have fun wearing mine to faire once I finish it, and hey, I'll even be wearing an elizbethan corset under it! ;-) Cheers folks, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 17:35:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01787 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:35:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14665; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25270 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:46:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from falcon.canfield.com (falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25255 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:46:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Leslie (u6-41.wa.net [206.191.135.105]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA20668 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:50:10 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990812150621.0368aec0@mail.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslie@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:46:58 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: Re: Simplicity Elizabethan/other patterns In-Reply-To: <199908122012.OAA24269@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Leslie Helms The question was asked, what does a pattern offer? I think I have a good answer, because I'm making my wedding dress right now and my chosen style is beyond my normal experience. The dress is an Elizabethan, based on the Phoenix Portrait but simplified to a country-gentry level. I have done no previous Elizabethan costuming (just a smattering of early Tudor and Restoration theater work) and have been doing a lot of research. I've found sources of excellent advice and support, and I'm working with Jean Hunnisett's "Patterns for Stage and Screen." That's really plenty to go on, but I did purchase the Period Patterns late Tudor/Elizabethan version. (From Elisee, an h-costumer, at Sewing Central.) I won't be using the pattern pieces directly, but the detailed instructions have greatly helped me to visualize the construction sequencing. The pattern has saved me from reinventing a few details that aren't clear in Arnold or Hunnisett. There was also a tidbit about draped sashes in the pattern documentation that I can now track down and use; I hadn't seen this elsewhere. Translating this into beginner's terms, the Simplicity pattern could allow someone with scant resources to construct a very raw Elizabethan by themselves and learn whether they had the passion to learn more. (Starting with corsetry, one hopes--I wince with you, Barbara...) Most people aren't going to invest in Arnold for their first dress, and I doubt whether anyone would be using $30/yd velvet on such a first effort also. I can't see the pattern being a real detriment unless someone stubbornly insisted on interpeting it as historically accurate. It might be the right steppingstone for some people; in other cases, not germaine to this list, it allows an ambitious Halloween costumer to have some real fun. And remember, this actually does constitute an advance in historical clothing education for the general public. (My friend who wears her full-trained houppelandes to community events is often complimented on her lovely "Elizabethan" dress by people who are clearly not troglodytes in other areas.) Leslie P.S. My thanks and congratulations to this list, as usual, for turning a possible flamefest into a constructive discussion. And thanks to Drea, the angel of Elizabethan angularity, for her great site. ( http://www.dnaco.net./~aleed/corsets/ ) and to Elizabeth Blackdane for insisting that any sufficiently bloody-minded person can do this. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 17:35:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01792 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:35:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14658; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:48:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25283 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:46:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from falcon.canfield.com (falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25269 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:46:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Leslie (u6-41.wa.net [206.191.135.105]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA20671 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:50:13 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990812152416.0368da10@mail.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslie@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:32:59 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: Corset fitting aid In-Reply-To: <199908122012.OAA24269@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Leslie Helms I've found a quick method for mocking up corsets that might be useful to others. I did my first paper pattern with Drea Leed's online corset pattern generator. I cut it out in stiff canvas to check the fit, but even that was just too bendable to work with. I slopped some white glue over it and stuck on two layers of brown paper and let the whole works dry for a few hours. Voila, a stiff muslin that bends in only one direction and takes enough stress to show me that I really do need to change the underarm curve. I spliced some pieces of fabric and paper onto it in the areas that needed extension, let it dry again, and was very happy with how it all worked. Speaking of corsets, if you're past 40 (or experiencing other gravitational anomalies) and getting a bit of sideways spread to the bust area, save yourself some time and just put shoulder straps on right from the start. That's what I ultimately had to do after wasting some time trying to get the necessary pull-in using just pressure and friction. Leslie Helms _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 17:42:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01799 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:42:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15305; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:55:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA26291 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:51:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pony.cleanweb.net (cw40.cleanweb.net [208.145.1.150]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA26280 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:51:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 20931 invoked from network); 13 Aug 1999 00:53:03 -0000 Received: from ws27.tpcgi.com (HELO tpcgi.com) (208.135.251.61) by cw40.cleanweb.net with SMTP; 13 Aug 1999 00:53:03 -0000 Message-ID: <37B3513B.668C401C@tpcgi.com> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:03:36 -0500 From: Paula Hanna X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown References: <691f5298.24e47334@aol.com> <37B34690.1FDBCD72@airmail.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Paula Hanna I'm with Megan on this one. While the Simplicity patterns may not be THAT accurate, I do believe that they CAN be altered to awfully close to authentic (you've just got to know where to look). We all learn from our initial mistakes and criticism should never be harsh. I for one have taken a McCalls pattern - I forget the number - the one with the psuedo French Hood and red dress - and transformed the pattern with a little bit of research to look exactly like dresses worn in the Unicorn tapestries circa 1490. And to top it off, impressed the reigning SCA queen so much that I received an Award of Arms on the spot. I have made my lord fantastic Elizabethan jerkins using the yoke pattern of a western shirt. I know it doesn't help that the people who mock-up the dresses for the pictures on the front of the pattern use chiffon and gold lamay ric-rac. But we all know better than that - everything simply needs to be researched a little bit. If you have a suggestion on a costume we are working on,then tell us kindly. And simply point us in the right direction (pictures, reference books, etc.) ;~) Oriana - the, doubtless, soon-to-be much ridiculed _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 17:58:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01806 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:58:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17222; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:11:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29431 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:09:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29424 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 17:09:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.199]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:08:46 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 23:03:50 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37cd522a.506887450@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id RAA29426 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:44:41 EDT, you wrote: >The pattern number is 0679 and it comes in sizes 6-20, but keep in mind the >pattern companies sometimes change numbers on you after an initial release. Jst for those who may have been hoping that this means you can preview it on the web site, unfortunately, it hasn't been updated for a month. It's not even in the numerical list yet. I looked there first since I'm home with the flu and can't go out and see it in person. :P You'd think they would update the site during halloween sewing season. Grr. I'm hopelessly curious now... Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 19:43:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01878 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:42:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27948; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:56:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA14231 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:53:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14221 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:53:52 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6FXFa16296 (4188) for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:53:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:53:02 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 08/12/1999 6:24:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, megan@airmail.net writes: << Just a thought. And please be gentle with folks like me.. >> NEVER!!! Take that....and that Ah Hah!!! Seriously, never be put off by people who tell you rudely how "horrible you look!"...or the like. Experienced people who really want to see you look good will offer advice that may be crushingly stern, but fair and accurate. And they usually will limit their comments to your outfit and not include you. They will also appreciate your hard work if it looks like you were serious. And here's a thought for those who have Daft-a-pattern phobia: If the Simplicity pattern pieces were not marked, could you tell what they were? If they were just brown paper shapes, could you tell the sleeve from the bodice front? [I know...facing pieces can get indistinguishable but I'm talking the basic garment shapes] So...can you? Of course you can. You know more than you think about how to pattern if you've cut & sewn together complete garments. And many pre-sewing machine cuts are simpler than today. Even if you use a commercial pattern, never be afraid to make it "better"....to fit your taste & needs. [Yes, it does take time....time many don't have. Still....don't forget you can do it.] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 20:25:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01949 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:25:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02573; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:38:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA19265 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:36:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19256 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:36:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990813013615.ZBRC410.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a>; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:36:15 -0700 Message-ID: <013401bee52a$8485c920$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: , "Garb" , , References: <37cd522a.506887450@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> Subject: H-COST: The big three - Historical Patterns - Photos of most Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 21:23:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" > You'd think they would update the site during halloween sewing season. > Grr. I'm hopelessly curious now... > > Margery Don't go right to this page, because I'm in the middle of creating it. There has been allot of talk about all the "historical patterns" out right now so here's what I'm gonna do :) I've just finished digging through my files and pulling out all the copies I have of patterns and pictures. I have most of the Ren/Medieval patterns, a few of the misc. Simplicity ones I have pattern book photos of. I'm in the middle of scanning them in and I'll post up no frills pages on my website. A link to the index will be at: http://unicorncastle.net/wardrobe/wmain.html It's 9:20pm EST....don't bother looking prior to about 11pm EST :) ~Kyna ------- Grannd Garb Historical Clothing, Supplies and Accessories http://GranndGarb.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 21:02:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02028 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 21:02:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05957; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:14:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23705 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:11:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23695 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 20:11:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.3.23.212]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990813021127.GOWQ9770.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 19:11:27 -0700 Message-ID: <37B27083.14BB882C@home.com> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 02:58:11 -0400 From: Liz /cozit Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume Subject: H-COST: Commercial patterns for historical garb..and leine question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Liz /cozit Just wanted to add my $.02 worth... *Some* of the patterns out there are actually pretty decent. One "nativity" type pattern I found was truly a basic t-tunic with armscrye (can never remember that spelling) built in...rather than as a separate piece...not bad, how many people look at underarms more than they have to. A couple others aren't too bad, once you look at the actual pattern, rather than the slightly altered thing on the model that doesn't always correspond. Personally, I ended up getting that one Simplicity that has what looks like an almost decent Irish Dress and a ...well... pretty, but not really so right noblewoman on its front (you know...the one that laces up the front, as an open dress, one piece). Am I using the *whole* pattern? Nope. But, the skirts are ok, as is the *general* look. Changing the bodice in a couple of minor ways, using the pattern as a base it becomes a fairly accurate Irish dress...if decent material and those few minor alterations are used. (nope, not talking about that apron, either.) Have I noticed the patterns having been obviously used at SCA and Renaissance Faires? Yup, you bet. But consider that those people First, may not have been "in garb" without that pattern, Second that they probably feel pretty good about themselves at the time, and Third...maybe it'll get them inspired to find out more (hey, that old outfit can always be used as loaner, or grubbies). Yes, it would be nice if the pattern companies created more "authentic" patterns, and actually, they do seem to be headed in that direction, overall. However, as most people interested in buying and using the patterns want to own/wear outfits that flatter the wearer, and are reasonably easy to sew, rather than specifically wanting to own/wear outfits that are completly historically accurate, the major pattern companies will most likely never put out a whole lot that puts historical accuracy over look and feel. And...there are many of us out here who will probably *never* wear something that is more than reasonably accurate. I have a wool allergy severe enough that I can't even wear a 20% wool skirt over other clothing (affects my sinuses, too). I'm also never going to have the "proper" shape for many time periods...so wearing what's in vogue at the time is probably out, too (even now...sigh). I'll settle for wearing something that *looks* (from a reasonably short distance) like it should for the time period. That doesn't keep me from wanting to know more about the history of what people wore, though. Oh...and the leine question. Has anyone out there tried pleating or gathering enough sleeve material into the shoulder seam to give a full look to the sleeves, rather than cutting that kimono-ish sleeve. Personally, I don't see that deep pocket look when I look at any of the pics. I've seen....just an extremely full sleeve that is maybe a *little* long, so poofed up. Still don't know where the drawstring/pleat up the sleeves idea came from. Those pictures that I've seen with excessive pleating up the arm only show it near the bottom of the arm or if the sleeve's been pushed up the arm a bit (as in the pics where a man has his forearm exposed for ease in movement/work). -Elisabeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 12 23:16:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02231 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 23:16:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18001; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 22:26:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA10411 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 22:24:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10406 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 22:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sue.computercrafters.com (pm3frd1-68-71.intrepid.net [206.102.68.71]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA18549 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 00:23:59 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990813002708.008088d0@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 00:27:08 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: H-COST: Simplicity patterns Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sue Shatto Group, I have recently become friendly with a woman who is making the new historic patterns. She did the Elizabethean one you all have been talking about. Right now she is working on a Civil War period pattern. She was explaining to me how hard it has been to convince Simplicity that there is a desire for more authenticity. They feel the public wants something simple and quick. She is trying with baby steps to increase the authenticity with out angering the powers that be. I have forwarded to her a couple of the more positive comments. I also gave her a good contact from this group and another good one for the Civil War. She is pleased to hear constructive criticisms, but mostly needs you to write Simplicity and tell them you are happy that they are attempting to go to a different level in pattern designing. I will include some of her comments she made to me when we first met, to show you she is an important ally. I'm a theatrical costume designer - or I was until family illnesses pulled me away for many years. I was also a draper at costume shops in New York - Broadway shows, ballet, etc. I'm a graduate of Northwestern University and the Yale Drama School. All that and a token will get you on the subway.... Anyhow, an old friend from theatre days is now the head of craft at Simplicity and she invited me to do some costumes for them. I begged to be allowed to do some "authentic" (within reason) period stuff and they're giving it a whirl. My first attempt was a medieval gown, cape and accessories. It's Simplicity #8725 and 8728. It was on the cover of the Spring Costume Catalogue. My next one, coming out in August I think, is Elizabethan. It's based more on Shakespeare in Love than reality, but more ambitious than their usual fare. And I think my farthingale shape is rather good. The bodice is much too curvy where it should be rigid. The project I'm working on right now is the Civil War. One package is linens only - chemise, pantalettes, corset, hoop, petticoat. The other is a day dress. If this goes well, I could add ball gowns, etc. etc. It's no accident or oversight that the costumes at Simplicity are "costumes." The powers-that-be at the company are sure that's what their customer wants. We're pushing the envelope with this experiment. If my patterns don't sell well, that will be the end of Authenticity for the Masses. It costs them a lot more to produce my complicated patterns and they expect a lot of complaints. "Hey, this thing takes a lot of TIME...." So I have a several-fold interest in chatting with recreators and costume society people. Of course I'm always greedy for period research. Secondly I'd be interested in what sort of patterns people want. (I'm only guessing now.) Thirdly I'd like to encourage people to buy the patterns and write Simplicity and beg them to continue the series. There are decades and centuries I'd love to explore, but we have to know there's a customer for it out there. ******************* this is a note she sent after I sent her a couple of comments from the group: Gail is right, absolutely right about the lack of corset. The bodice is FAR too curvy. May the ghost of Janet Arnold forgive me. All this "accuracy" is so new to Simplicity, I'm pushing as hard as I can. The cartridge pleating on the skirt was a major battle. I hope when my Civil War stuff comes out, people will RAVE to Simplicity (they have a web site) about the corset and hoop and such. *********** so you can see people are listening to you, now you need to do your part by communicating with Simplicity. Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 00:21:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02347 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 00:21:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24103; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 23:33:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA17709 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 23:31:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (alpha.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.21.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17702 for ; Thu, 12 Aug 1999 23:31:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from antiquity.pbc.adelphia.net (surf12-151-234.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.151.234]) by alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id BAA15366 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 01:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00d901bee54d$4d1951a0$ea973018@pbc.adelphia.net> From: "Erica Pence" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 01:32:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00D6_01BEE52B.C51E3C00" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Erica Pence" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00D6_01BEE52B.C51E3C00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Everyone, I wanted to throw more in the pot on the discussion of why one would use = a pattern. While it is true that patterns made by Simplicity and the = like are used mostly by the general sewer, even skilled patternmakers = sometimes use these designs as a basic sloper. I can make a pattern from = almost any sketch or picture for any size person, yet if there is a = pattern with a decent sleeve or skirt, I will use it for that purpose. = Why reinvent the wheel? Yes some of the style lines of these costume = patterns are different than that of the period, but I sometimes find = pieces of them to be very useful as starting points. It is much easier = for me to slap a basic pattern piece in the general size I need on my = table and quickly sketch a new one to be period accurate, than to plot = an entire dress on graph paper (although I can't say I don't use this = method as well). My point is that patterns are useful to skilled = patternmakers just as they are to the vast sewing community. I think that its great that the general population is open to creating = period costumes, even if they are not accurate. Maybe if the interest = is great enough, accurate period patterns will be available through the = fabric stores to everyone in the future. =20 While I have seen many people seemingly upset by the criticism of the = Simplicity, etc. patterns, I think that it is still important for those = that know better to inform people about its inaccuracies. Yes, I think = these patterns are useful in many ways to all kinds of people. But I = also agree with other posters....they are not always accurate and people = should know what about them is wrong. After being informed, the = costumer can decide for themselves what is most important in their = situation, accuracy or sanity ;-D Thanks for allowing me my $.02. Erica Pence Robes of Antiquity www.robesofantiquity.com Online store coming soon! ------=_NextPart_000_00D6_01BEE52B.C51E3C00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Everyone,
 
I wanted to throw more in the pot on the discussion = of why one=20 would use a pattern.  While it is true that patterns made by = Simplicity and=20 the like are used mostly by the general sewer, even skilled = patternmakers=20 sometimes use these designs as a basic sloper. I can make a pattern from = almost=20 any sketch or picture for any size person, yet if there is a pattern = with a=20 decent sleeve or skirt, I will use it for that purpose.  Why = reinvent=20 the wheel?  Yes some of the style lines of these costume patterns = are=20 different than that of the period, but I sometimes find pieces of them = to be=20 very useful as starting points.  It is much easier for me to = slap a=20 basic pattern piece in the general size I need on my table and = quickly=20 sketch a new one to be period accurate, than to plot an entire = dress on=20 graph paper (although I can't say I don't use this method as = well).  My=20 point is that patterns are useful to skilled patternmakers just as = they are=20 to the vast sewing community.
 
I think that its great that the general population = is open to=20 creating period costumes, even if they are not accurate.  Maybe if = the=20 interest is great enough, accurate period patterns will be = available=20 through the fabric stores to everyone in the future. 
 
While I have seen many people seemingly upset by the = criticism=20 of the Simplicity, etc. patterns, I think that it is still important for = those=20 that know better to inform people about its inaccuracies.  Yes, I = think=20 these patterns are useful in many ways to all kinds of people.  But = I also=20 agree with other posters....they are not always accurate and people = should know=20 what about them is wrong.  After being informed, the costumer can = decide=20 for themselves what is most important in their situation, accuracy or = sanity=20 ;-D
 
Thanks for allowing me my $.02.
 
Erica Pence
Robes of Antiquity
www.robesofantiquity.com
= Online=20 store coming soon!
------=_NextPart_000_00D6_01BEE52B.C51E3C00-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 01:39:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02418 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 01:39:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29061; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 00:52:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA25297 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 00:50:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spdmgaac.compuserve.com (ds-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.206.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25289 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 00:50:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id CAA05905 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 02:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 02:49:21 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Old Knitting patterns To: LIST historic costume Message-ID: <199908130249_MC2-80CC-EBA2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id AAA25292 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson This site is interesting for early patterns, not much before victorian (and I recommend you ask for them as most arn't on the site) http://www.yesterknits.com, Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 01:39:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02422 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 01:39:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29057; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 00:52:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA25281 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 00:50:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (ah-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.217.154]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25276 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 00:50:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.8) id CAA14921 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 02:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 02:49:26 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Kirby Hall To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908130249_MC2-80CC-EBA8@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id AAA25277 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson >I'd like to know if your posting is about Pennsic. If so, I will be there as well . Camp 28 "Sebastain's Place" with the Barony of Blackstone. Kirby hall is an English Heritage multiperiod event in the UK, this weekend near Corby Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 08:37:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00773 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:37:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19323; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 07:51:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA19025 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 07:48:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web803.mail.yahoo.com (web803.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA19018 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 07:48:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990813135201.20619.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web803.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 06:52:01 PDT Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 06:52:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: H-COST: Simplicity and patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I e-mailed the Simplicity staff this morning regarding making authentic patterns, and they have already responded to me... they seem very receptive... I would strongly suggest others e-mail them as well. The e-mail is info@simplicity.com . Hopefull if a bunch of us say something they will gain confidence that this is what we want.... Sarah _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 09:00:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00799 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:00:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21808; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:14:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA22277 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:11:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22258 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:11:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990813141141.WOCV24388.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 07:11:41 -0700 Message-ID: <37B4279D.BF83B41A@home.com> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:11:41 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > And here's a thought for those who have Daft-a-pattern phobia: > > If the Simplicity pattern pieces were not marked, could you tell what > they were? If they were just brown paper shapes, could you tell the > sleeve from the bodice front? [I know...facing pieces can get > indistinguishable but I'm talking the basic garment shapes] So...can > you? Of course you can. You know more than you think about how to > pattern if you've cut & sewn together complete garments. And many > pre-sewing machine cuts are simpler than today. Even if you use a > commercial pattern, never be afraid to make it "better"....to fit your > taste & needs. I *can* tell the difference . I can also 'look beyond' the hideous fabric they make most piece up out of for the photos on most patterns and see if it has pieces I can use. If that fails, I look at the pattern pieces on the back of the pattern envelope or on the instructions. It's just so much easier for me to have something to start with...and some pieces *don't* need readjusting either than for fit for a particular individual (but don't get me started on the sleeves from Simplicity 7756! ). But even though a particular pattern may have pieces that are incorrect, the new ones often have pieces that *are* correct or can be made so with relative ease (at least for me). I don't have a problem with changing where a seam is if I have the pattern pieces in front of me and I've looked at enough pictures through the decades (with a historian for a dad how could I prevent it! ) and can usually tell without even looking it up if something is 'right' or not. Now mind you, I don't use patterns for T-tunics or those style of dresses...I just fold the fabric and cut. But if I'm doing something more complicated I feel more comfortable with a pattern I can lay down on the fabric and look at before I cut. I've been known to add bodice pieces to bodice pieces before cutting and skirt pieces to bodice pieces to get the correct 'layout' of the pattern (of course, I do this on white butcher paper and then have a 'correct' pattern...but it does save time and with two kids, five cats and a husband to take care of I really have to watch my time! ). Just my two cents worth. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 09:03:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00808 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:03:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22082; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:16:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA22667 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:14:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA22662 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:14:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990813141352.26396.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 07:13:52 PDT Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 07:13:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: New Costume Website! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I finally got to spend a few minutes looking at Margo's web site... wow! I have just been given a lesson on exactly how much I am outclassed... *sigh* ah well... I suppose I shall just have to practise... for anyone who hasn't looked at her web site yet... take a look... I'm impressed! sarah _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 09:11:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00818 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:11:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23003; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:25:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24107 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:22:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24098 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:22:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990813142243.WRBQ24388.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 07:22:43 -0700 Message-ID: <37B42A32.A232172B@home.com> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:22:42 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity patterns References: <3.0.3.32.19990813002708.008088d0@intrepid.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Sue Shatto wrote: > > Anyhow, an old friend from theatre days is now the head of craft at > Simplicity and she invited me to do some costumes for them. I begged > to be allowed to do some "authentic" (within reason) period stuff and > they're giving it a whirl. My first attempt was a medieval gown, cape > and accessories. It's Simplicity #8725 and 8728. It was on the cover > of the Spring Costume Catalogue. I have both of these...while I won't be likely to cut out the 8725 one on the same lines...attaching the pattern pieces will help when I'm doing 'gates of hell' (I use a princess line dress pattern that has the bust seam that's correct for a cotehardie). I especially appreciated the 8728 one because I've always been nervous about making headpieces (in the SCA my persona is 12th C Norman, not that much into the more elaborate headpieces of later periods). While I am dubious about headpiece A of this pattern, I like the way they did B & C, which will make my life easier (but then I do primarily theatrical sewing which *is* different although I try to make them more historical because it's high school and the cast goes out in their costumes after the show into the lobby). Hey everyone...at least we're starting to see commercial patterns *without* *zippers*!! We need to encourage them to do better rather than pull them down because it isn't yet 'perfect'! Kat (who spent the TN ren faire going "that's Simplicity, that's McCall's, oh my ghawd...what possessed that person to pick *that* fabric...ack!") _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 10:31:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01453 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:31:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04362; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:45:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10593 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:42:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10578 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:42:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA239650 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:42:28 -0700 Received: from ip-53-196.scf.primenet.com(206.132.53.196), claiming to be "missnformed.com" via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdSLyDqa; Fri Aug 13 08:42:23 1999 Message-ID: <37B43E1C.3BA8D6AE@missnformed.com> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:47:40 -0700 From: Fooled You X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Costume Subject: H-COST: Rust out of cotton Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fooled You Does anyone know how to get rust out of white cotton? Someone hung my favorite shirt over the Rod Iron Balcony to dry...Sigh. Thanks, Erin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 10:36:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01459 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:36:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05125; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:50:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11832 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:47:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11825 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:47:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p18.directcon.net [206.170.184.67]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA17177 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908131547.IAA17177@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson =nd If the Titanic dresses were any indication maybe a few teenagers will >want to emmulate Gweneth Paltrow and will wear it to their proms. You bet! I've already been contacted by one girl who wants an Elizabethan prom gown. I agree that IF this costume pattern is even close to the right look, there's a place for it. When teaching my Elizabethan costume class, I found that most of my students were intimidated by the idea of sewing without a pattern. If I can take this one and write a detailed explanation of what to do to it to make it more feasible, it will be a big help. To the person who's actually seen it: You say it's uncorseted. Is the bodice shaped with darts or seams? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 10:55:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01468 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:55:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07288; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:08:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA15458 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:05:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15451 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:05:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA06471 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:06:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B442AE.B8175891@serv.net> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:07:10 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity patterns References: <3.0.3.32.19990813002708.008088d0@intrepid.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > I have recently become friendly with a woman who is making the new > historic patterns. She did the Elizabethean one you all have been talking > about. Right now she is working on a Civil War period pattern. Thanks for the post. I went to three stores last night until I found the new Elizabethan #0679. I am *very* impressed. Sure, there are aspects that aren't perfect, like the rounded bosom. But damn! This pattern rocks! And the Celtic one isn't bad either for what we call in our SCA neck of the woods, Scottish Renn. *g* I *know* it's not authentic in certain ways so I don't need to be informed of that. I am just so glad the Simplicity is finally taking the risk (and McCall's and Butterick are frantically trying to catch up but not quite getting it). These patterns are affordable, excellent for the beginner who is totally overwhelmed by *authenticity* standards and pattern drafting. I recommend these patterns all the time to newcomers. I don't think I told you all, I'm the new Sewing Guild head here in Seattle's local SCA chapter. *bounce* They made me do it. *g* I wrote simplicity at info@simplicity.com and let them know how happy I am with the direction that they are going. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 10:57:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01479 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:57:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07810; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:11:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16317 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:09:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16307 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:09:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p18.directcon.net [206.170.184.67]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA19577 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:08:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:08:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908131608.JAA19577@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: New Costume Website! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >I finally got to spend a few minutes looking at >Margo's web site... wow! Thank you so much! If you liked that, there's more: I expect the Elizabethan Costume; History and Technique section to be up early next week. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 11:30:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01569 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 11:30:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12950; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23288 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:41:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23277 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:41:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990813164122.HKFE410.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a>; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:41:22 -0700 Message-ID: <004b01bee5a8$f6121840$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: "Kyna Grannd" , , "Garb" , , Subject: H-COST: Re: The big three - Historical Patterns - Photos of most Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:29:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" Well...this will take a day or two more. We had a death in the extended family last night. Plus this is more of a project than I thought. I'll be working on it today and some tonight. Hopefully I'll finish then. I've had time to think about it off and on and I'll be adding a simple message board for people to ask questions about certain patterns and give opinions. Suggestions for changing and best using the patterns that are sent to me at patters@unicorncastle.net, will be put on the pattern pages with credit to the authors. I'd like to keep this updated and add other patterns from retail pattern companies and other times in history, so feel free to send me pattern numbers, critiques, photos of the patterns etc. Thanks for your understanding as I get this all working. :) ~Kyna http://UnicornCastle.net/wardrobe/wmain.html ----- Original Message ----- From: Kyna Grannd To: ; Garb ; ; Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 9:23 PM Subject: The big three - Historical Patterns - Photos of most > > You'd think they would update the site during halloween sewing season. > > Grr. I'm hopelessly curious now... > > > > Margery > > Don't go right to this page, because I'm in the middle of creating it. There > has been allot of talk about all the "historical patterns" out right now so > here's what I'm gonna do :) > > I've just finished digging through my files and pulling out all the copies I > have of patterns and pictures. I have most of the Ren/Medieval patterns, a > few of the misc. Simplicity ones I have pattern book photos of. I'm in the > middle of scanning them in and I'll post up no frills pages on my website. A > link to the index will be at: > > http://unicorncastle.net/wardrobe/wmain.html > > It's 9:20pm EST....don't bother looking prior to about 11pm EST :) > > > ~Kyna > > ------- > Grannd Garb > Historical Clothing, Supplies and Accessories > http://GranndGarb.com > > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 11:35:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01580 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 11:35:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13501; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:48:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24400 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:46:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24380 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:46:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA07433 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B44C3B.482B25E3@serv.net> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 09:47:56 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown References: <199908131547.IAA17177@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > To the person who's actually seen it: You say it's uncorseted. Is the > bodice shaped with darts or seams? Seamed. With a zillion bones, 8 yards of them! Cartridge pleated skirt. Farthingale with hoops recommended to be purchased from Greenburg and Hammer! :) And 400 pearls are called for. For the forepart. This is a bang up job... The skirt is going to be expensive, done this way, I wouldn't have made the underskirt completely taffeta. I would have added the bands to the overskirt and kept the hidden parts broadcloth or muslin. But that would be mainly to cut costs. Cynthia, sitting in amazement -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 11:57:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01605 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 11:57:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16306; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 11:10:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29169 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 11:08:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29159 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 11:08:26 -0600 (MDT) From: CONNECT@aol.com Received: from CONNECT@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6JSYa05141 (4452) for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <17ce8061.24e5aadc@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:07:40 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: CONNECT@aol.com In a message dated 8/12/99 3:02:23 PM, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: << My question is sincere. What do you get that can't be found in more reliable sources? Instructions? >> Well, there's the very important hand-holding that commercial patterns give less-able sewers. Often times, people come in who might have used a pattern in high school or whatever. If you were to simply hand them Janet Arnold, I think they would go away in frustration. Yours, Pattie Rayl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 12:56:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01670 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:56:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23709; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:09:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11982 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:06:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11952 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:06:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn47.pm3-3.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.166]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05BD9F51C1 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:06:05 -0600 (MDT) From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: New Costume Website! Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 13:52:09 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990813180606.05BD9F51C1@sight.vcn.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Can someone give the URL, please? Liadain, who likes to look at purdy pictures.... > -Poster: Sarah Toney > > I finally got to spend a few minutes looking at > Margo's web site... wow! I have just been given a > lesson on exactly how much I am outclassed... *sigh* > ah well... I suppose I shall just have to practise... > for anyone who hasn't looked at her web site yet... > take a look... I'm impressed! > > sarah > > _________________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 12:56:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01674 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:56:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23930; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:10:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA12316 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:07:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12307 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:07:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wizzer ([12.76.67.84]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990813180700.LTBH21371@wizzer> for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:07:00 +0000 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990813140539.007f9220@postoffice.worldnet.att.net> X-Sender: kimberlygilbert@postoffice.worldnet.att.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:05:39 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kimberly Gilbert Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown In-Reply-To: <17ce8061.24e5aadc@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kimberly Gilbert At 01:07 PM 8/13/99 EDT, you wrote: >Well, there's the very important hand-holding that commercial patterns give >less-able sewers. Often times, people come in who might have used a pattern >in high school or whatever. If you were to simply hand them Janet Arnold, I >think they would go away in frustration. I agree. For my wedding, I'm using Simplicity for the bridesmaid's dresses (although now I have to go check out this new pattern and see if it might not work instead--it sounds great). Neither my maid of honor nor my sister are experienced sewers, nor are they interested in reenactments. These are the best choice I've been able to find. Kimberly Kimberly Gilbert kimberlygilbert@worldnet.att.net "This is terrible news! Do you actually intend to kill your enemies? Can't you just speak sternly to them?" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 13:01:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01685 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:01:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24643; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:15:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA13267 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:12:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13260 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:12:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA09317 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 11:13:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B4607D.B48E0405@serv.net> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 11:14:21 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: New Costume Website! References: <19990813180606.05BD9F51C1@sight.vcn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm Enjoy! > Can someone give the URL, please? Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 13:10:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01691 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:10:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25686; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:23:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA15094 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:21:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15073 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:21:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p41.directcon.net [206.170.184.140]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04297 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 11:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 11:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908131820.LAA04297@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: New Costume Website! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >Can someone give the URL, please? http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm Enjoy! BTW, the Guestbook doesn't work. The section on Elizabethan Costume: History and Technique should be up early next week, if not sooner. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 14:00:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01740 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:00:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02409; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:13:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24012 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:10:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23999 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:10:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-109.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.109]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA17535 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990813144229.009c3660@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:42:29 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown In-Reply-To: <691f5298.24e47334@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, I think I'll jump into the fray. I saw this pattern yesterday. >My question is sincere. What do you get that can't be found in more >reliable sources? Instructions? Well, personally I rolled my eyes at the pattern. This is my personal *opinion* I am EXTREMELY authenticity minded for myself. However, I think it would be a good starting point for a beginner sewer. In my experience most beginnning sewers feel they need everything laid out nicely and explained for them (essentially having their hand held). What they lack is confidence in their own ability. I think patterns like this can be used to promote confidence. It is amazing how many people find the concept of a farthingale or a ruff (for example) daunting. This pattern provided a pattern & instructions for both. Although Arnold does a MUCH better job for those with some sewing confidence, I think it wouldn't be a too bad starting place for people with no sewing confidence. Despite the definite curve over the bust and the open front skirt/back-fastening gown. Those things can be worked out later. It would certainly provide new people with the opportunity to have *cool* first garb. Although I would probably wince if I saw an experienced SCA costumer had used it as is. On the other hand I think it's a pretty good starting place for a relatively new person and would probably applaud their willingness to attempt something "complicated". Just my opinion. Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 14:29:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01794 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:29:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06515; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:43:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA29314 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:40:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA29303 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:40:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990813194031.731.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:40:31 PDT Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 12:40:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney > need everything laid out > nicely and explained for them On this note... I need help... I have purchased several patterns with boning in them to try and learn how to put it in... I have yet to be successful... is there a good resource on how to put boning in your costuming pieces? I am truly fustrated... while I LOVE the corset I bought, I would like to make one for myself, both for the satisfaction and because purchasing them is costly... help? Sarah _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 15:16:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01823 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:16:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15377; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:30:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07873 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:27:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07862 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:27:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn12.pm3-1.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.31]) by sight.vcn.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 350BAF51D5 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:27:21 -0600 (MDT) From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: New Costume Website! Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 00:09:31 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990813202721.350BAF51D5@sight.vcn.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Thanks! Your site is so exciting that, while I was reading up on "Bad Eliz. Costuming", the lights went out over half the county for an hour.... Liadain > http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > Enjoy! > > BTW, the Guestbook doesn't work. The section on Elizabethan Costume: History > and Technique should be up early next week, if not sooner. > > Margo > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 15:24:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01833 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:24:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16587; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:38:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09302 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:35:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09295 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:35:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p42.directcon.net [206.170.184.141]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA17244 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:35:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:35:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908132035.NAA17244@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >On this note... I need help... I have purchased >several patterns with boning in them to try and learn >how to put it in... I have yet to be successful... is >there a good resource on how to put boning in your >costuming pieces? I am truly fustrated... Sarah, why not ask for help here on the list? Specifically, tell us what methods and materials you've tried and what the problems were. I'm sure someone here has a method that will work for you. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 16:13:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01873 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:13:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23456; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:27:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA18802 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:24:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sparticus.bright.net (sparticus.bright.net [205.212.123.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18791 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:24:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lena-meyer (find-cas1-cs-23.dial.bright.net [209.143.26.126]) by sparticus.bright.net (8.9.3/8.9.3 ComNet Build) with SMTP id RAA18866 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:24:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004201bee5d1$8b9e8560$7e1a8fd1@lena-meyer> From: "Lena Meyer" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Rust out of cotton Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:17:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Lena Meyer" Erin, Yes, I just went through this trying to get rust out of white 50 cotton/50 poly. What worked the best is Carbona Stain Devils, spot remover for rust, available at Walmart near the cleaning products, and rit dyes. it a small yellow bottle only about 6 inches high. Worked great. If it doesn't get it out right away, let it set overnight, next morning stain was gone. I tried everything, this stuff worked great. Good Luck. Lena -----Original Message----- From: Fooled You To: Costume Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 11:43 AM Subject: H-COST: Rust out of cotton > >-Poster: Fooled You > >Does anyone know how to get rust out of white cotton? Someone hung my >favorite shirt over the Rod Iron Balcony to dry...Sigh. > >Thanks, >Erin > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 16:27:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01879 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:27:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25652; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:40:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA21814 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:38:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21806 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:38:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-70-13.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.70.13]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29414 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:38:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B4236E.AAF96D68@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:54:00 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Trim on 1360 dress References: <199908121646.KAA29488@email.boisestate.edu> <37B2FEE6.63F3A17@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, I'm sorry but I'm not sure who wrote: >> They are about 1 inch in size, metal, but they are somewhat filigree -- >> well, they have holes in the design, if that makes sense. Will these >> imitate period bezants or were period bezants solid shapes? Merouda replied: > Bezants for 14th century England were solid little pieces with designs > stamped on them or cut from stamped shapes. The only hole being the one > used to sew them on to the garment. *From what I can tell so far in my > research.* I would get something like a disk with a sun on it or a little > four petaled flower. Bezants were the common term for a Byzantine gold coin called the solidus. They were used as currency up to the 16th century throughout Europe. They were common enough to lead to the heraldic term bezant, meaning a gold disk. While it's not likely that the ones used on costume would have been real gold coins, they certainly would have resembled them. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 16:27:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01883 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:27:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25755; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:41:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA21854 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:38:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21836 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:38:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-70-13.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.70.13]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29491 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:38:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B4292F.B1D2069B@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:18:36 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Simplicity Elizabethan gown References: <1621f16f.24e46dcd@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, More than enough has been said on this topic and I'm sorry to be adding to it, but here goes... While I don't have 30 years of re-enacting experience, I do have 8 years of experience helping newcomers get acclimated to the re-enactment community. It's naïve to think that everyone interested in period costuming is going to jump into being 100% authentic right off the bat. My experience is that people want to jump in with both feet and need to get costumes made to do so. These patterns are a step in that direction. It's certainly better for commercial patterns to be available. How many do you expect would return a second time if you told them they had to spend $40 on Janet Arnold's book, decipher and digest it, find the correct fabrics, draft a pattern, make a mock up, test the fit, and then sew the final project and find all the proper accessories? We'll never have a 100% retention rate for newcomers, but if we can point them to cheap, simple, somewhat authentic commercial patterns that are widely available, we have a much greater possibility that they will come back for us to help them improve their authenticity. Leading by example is great, but driving away anyone that doesn't meet your standards from day one will make for a rather exclusive club. The commercial patterns are not authentic, but at least they're a step in the right direction. Please e-mail the commercial pattern companies and give them some feedback on these patterns. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." Barbara wrote: > But is good enough, really what you are looking for? We still see the wasted > fabric, wasted time, and just not right appearance of the commercial patterns > for rev war costuming over the past twentyfive years. And then, maybe this > is not high on your list of priorities. If "looks generally the right shape" > is what you want then it's a goldmine - - good luck! ...and... > My apologies for offending the list with a simple voiced opinion. I forgot > that many SCA march to a different drum. ;^) ...and... > As a historical costumer of some thirty years experience, I have no intention > of criticizing anyone, only of pointing out a caution on something that I have > seen occurring over and over again in reenacting which is my field. That is > the regret that the individual didn't wait and seek advice before grabbing > something that looked right. AlbertCat added: >> My question is sincere. What do you get that can't be found in more reliable >> sources? Instructions? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 16:40:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01889 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:40:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27735; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:53:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA24459 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:51:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24452 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:51:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA13831 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:51:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B493B4.CF39E53F@serv.net> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 14:52:52 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Trim on 1360 dress References: <199908121646.KAA29488@email.boisestate.edu> <37B2FEE6.63F3A17@serv.net> <37B4236E.AAF96D68@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > Bezants were the common term for a Byzantine gold coin called the solidus. > They were used as currency up to the 16th century throughout Europe. They were > common enough to lead to the heraldic term bezant, meaning a gold disk. While > it's not likely that the ones used on costume would have been real gold coins, > they certainly would have resembled them. Excellent info! And yes the bezants by this period are only about 1/2" in size and while many are circular, some are in the shape of 4 petals, lozenges, etc. Thanks! Merouda, or she who will have 400 of the little suckers stamped out, polished, and applied within the next 5 months. -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 16:50:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01898 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:50:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28969; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:04:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA26555 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:01:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26550 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:01:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.184] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11FPOZ-0005QZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:01:52 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:01:39 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown In-Reply-To: <17ce8061.24e5aadc@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 01:07 PM 8/13/99 -0400, you wrote: If you were to simply hand them Janet Arnold, I >think they would go away in frustration. Yours, Pattie Rayl I would, and I've sewn all along...though I haven't taken classes. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 17:06:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01911 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:06:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01362; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:20:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29529 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:18:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29524 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:18:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990813221811.BPVK24388.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:18:11 -0700 Message-ID: <37B499A2.F04632E4@home.com> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:18:10 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent "Carol J. Bell Cannon" wrote: > > At 01:07 PM 8/13/99 -0400, you wrote: > If you were to simply hand them Janet Arnold, I > >think they would go away in frustration. Yours, Pattie Rayl > I would, and I've sewn all along...though I haven't taken > classes. I agree, I taught myself to sew when I was 11 and made my first two garments by hand using the original items as patterns (a bonnet & a 'peasant' blouse). It's now 27 years later and I would have been horribly frustrated had I tried to draft something from a book or used a Medieval Miscellania pattern without having someone over my shoulder before using commercial patterns. As it was...the first time I saw an MM pattern I went nuts trying to understand the instructions until the Laurel of the household told me to use the notes for historical reference (suitable fabrics, trim etc), make each pattern piece out of butcher paper (I finished the Tudor gown for a girl playing Princess Mary at our local ren faire because she had the MM pattern and was trying to figure out where to *cut* it!) first and then just sew it together the way it should go. Gee whiz, the first time I picked up the Holkeboer book (which *includes* clear drafting instructions) I was a tad overwhelmed and I didn't get *it* until I was in my 30's! You know, some of you are obviously naturals or genius' at this game but the majority of the world isn't...some have to really work at it! Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 17:48:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01990 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:48:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05447; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:02:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA06417 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:59:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06412 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:59:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-220-8.s262.tnt5.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.220.8]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA13583 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:59:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000601bee5e0$b87409c0$08dc7ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <37B499A2.F04632E4@home.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:08:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" It's now 27 years later and I would have been > horribly frustrated had I tried to draft something from a book or used a > Medieval Miscellania pattern without having someone over my shoulder > before using commercial patterns. Ya know, the first thing I ever sewed was the cotehardie and surcoat MM pattern. But I will say, compared to that, even Vogue very difficult aren't that hard. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 17:48:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01993 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:48:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05450; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:02:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA06435 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:59:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06429 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:59:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.130 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 15:59:10 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Spanish Dress Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:07:23 -0400 Message-ID: <000201bee5e0$aaac34c0$820bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I think that book we were trying to remember was *Hispanic Costume 1480-1530* by Ruth M. Anderson, 1979 by the Hispanic Society, men and women, accessories, black and white illustrations, $38 from Fred Struthers at http://www.mcn.org/e/fsbks or e-mail: fsbks@mcn.org. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 18:17:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02052 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:17:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07942; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:30:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10432 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:27:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10421 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:27:56 -0600 (MDT) From: Jujenkai@aol.com Received: from Jujenkai@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6BPUa03711 (7813) for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:27:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:27:17 EDT Subject: H-COST: Japanese Clothing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jujenkai@aol.com Hello, I am a new member of the Society for Creative Anachronism in Starkville, Ms and am having many problems creating what I consider to be my only choice in costuming, the Japanese Heian Era. The problem is that I need patterns to cut and sew many of the costumes that I would like to make, particularly the Karaginu and Mo of the Juni Hitoe. If you could please help me, I would greatly appreciate it. I have exhausted the resources of not only my University and our local libraries, but also I have tried the Kyoto National museum and the University of Hawaii's Asian studies department to no avail. Please send me any information on Japanese traditional costuming that you may have. Respectfully, Brooks D. Barnes _____________________________________________________________________ Brooks D. Barnes 506 Greensboro Street Starkville, Ms 39759 U.S.A. Tel (662) 323-5799 e-mail jujenkai@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 19:44:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02126 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:44:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15745; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:58:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21203 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:55:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21198 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:55:40 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.111] (ppp111.creative.net [208.225.99.111]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08076 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 17:55:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 18:03:01 -0700 To: Subject: H-COST: Linen cleaning question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net OK, there seems to be a theme here... I washed a teal-blue linen-cotton blend tunic and a white linen tunic together. Well, the teal-blue, which i had prewashed before sewing, was apparently not colorfast and now my white tunic has a teal-ish cast. I washed it again immediately when i saw what had happened and it did get a little lighter. But now that i've worn it and washed it again, i'm not so sure if any more of the color is coming out. Any ideas on how to get my no-longer white linen tunic white again? I'm shy of bleach, since it weakens so many fibers, but if there's a safe kind or a safe way to use it, i'm willing. Thanks, Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 20:09:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02139 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:09:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17615; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:23:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24653 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:20:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24532 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:20:32 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6DRSa14808 (4417) for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4ae76136.24e61e3a@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:19:54 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Rust out of cotton To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com There are commercial rust removers, and sometimes lemon juice works. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 20:12:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02145 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:12:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17922; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00401 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:23:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00395 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:23:28 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6MGUa16287 (4417) for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:22:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:22:40 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Linen cleaning question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Chlorine bleach should not weaken linen fibers, but you can try an oxygen bleach first. They are milder. Also, the ancient method of laying on grass in the sun to dry might help. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 21:08:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02183 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:08:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22434; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:22:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06505 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:19:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06500 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:19:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.171 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 19:19:13 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Linen cleaning question Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:25:38 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bee5fc$a08a73a0$ab0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" RIT makes a dye remover. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of lilinah@grin.net > Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 9:03 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Linen cleaning question > > > > -Poster: lilinah@grin.net > > OK, there seems to be a theme here... > > I washed a teal-blue linen-cotton blend tunic and a white linen tunic > together. Well, the teal-blue, which i had prewashed before > sewing, was > apparently not colorfast and now my white tunic has a teal-ish cast. I > washed it again immediately when i saw what had happened and > it did get a > little lighter. But now that i've worn it and washed it > again, i'm not so > sure if any more of the color is coming out. > > Any ideas on how to get my no-longer white linen tunic white > again? I'm shy > of bleach, since it weakens so many fibers, but if there's a > safe kind or a > safe way to use it, i'm willing. > > Thanks, > > Lilinah > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 21:13:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02189 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:13:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22934; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:26:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06912 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:24:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06902 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:24:21 -0600 (MDT) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6XVQa06266 (4424) for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:23:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:23:32 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com In a message dated 8/13/99 11:48:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << To the person who's actually seen it: You say it's uncorseted. Is the bodice shaped with darts or seams? >> It's shaped with seams, the pattern pieces of the bodice are shaped very similar to those in one of the Hunniset corsets of that era. The bodice is also extensively boned down CF, to give a flat front appearance as well as along CB and at all seamlines. Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 22:20:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02252 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:20:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29598; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:34:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14181 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:31:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14172 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:31:28 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6RQFa01400 (3998) for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2ea8e036.24e63cd4@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:30:28 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 08/13/1999 3:41:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sarah_and_pooh@yahoo.com writes: << I have yet to be successful... is there a good resource on how to put boning in your costuming pieces? >> Where does it go? On a seam or in the middle of a pattern piece? If it goes in the middle, you can create "vents" [the channel the bone slips into] 2 ways.ONE... With boning casing, which can be ribbon or can be made by cutting strips of fabric on the straight and turning in the raw edges [the Q & D way is to just pink the edges]. Cut it about 1/4 inch wider [finished] than your bones. Cut the flat-linings and position the casings by sturdily sewing down each side of the casing [make sure the bone will slip inside...snugly]. Ofttimes the casings can go right off the seam allowance at top & bottom. TWO... cut 2 flat-linings for each pattern piece. Tack each pair together so you have a 2 layer flat-lining and stitch vents thru the 2 layers where needed. The bones can be slipped between the 2 layers and the rows of stitching. Cut & round the edges of the bones. If they're poly or Riglene, melt the ends a little with a flame. If steel...file the edged round [scraping them on a cement sidewalk does this well if you don't have a file] and tip them in tipping fluid. Slip them in the vents. stitch off the top shy of the seam or finishing line. Now flat line these pieces to the fashion fabric. [You can sandwich the casings between the fashion fabric if it won't show.] Put the bodice together and fit it before sewing off the bottoms. If the bones go on a seam..... make boning casing so it consists of a piece on the straight that is twice the length needed so it can be folded in half, stitched down each long side to create a vent for the bone to slip into. Flatline & sew together the bodice. pink or finish the seam allowances to at least 1/2 inch. Press them open. Now you can machine sew the casing on by putting the bodice pieces right sides together [like when you assembled the bodice] and keeping the seam allowance flat....so only one side of the seam allowance is by itself to the right. Put this under the machine and sew the right side of the casing to the single right seam allowance. Now turn it all over and do the other side [the pieces will be upside down now and the other side will be to the right] make sure you keep the seam allowance open & flat as possible while you sew this second side of the casing to it. You should now end up with a flat open seam allowance with the casing just sewn to it and straddling the seam. [it's much harder to explain than to do...NOW I know why to get a commercial pattern with instructions!] Now slide the bone in. This will work on curved seams too. The period way [19th century] is to slip the bone in the folded casing, finish it off so you have a cloth covered bone. Press open the seam and cross stitch [in magenta floss] the bone to the seam allowances straddling the seam. [with the needle pointing up start at the top left, cross the bone & take a stitch [still going up] about 1/4 to 3/8 inch down on the right side catching the casing to the seam allowance....the another stitch crossing the bone & 1/4 inch down to the left [needle & stitches pointing up still]...then crossing to the right...left...right..... the length of the bone.] Boy....that was more explaining than I imagined!. Jean Hunnisett explains some of this in her corset section in Vol. One I think. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 22:24:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02263 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:24:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29843; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:38:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14710 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:36:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (alpha.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.21.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14701 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:36:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from antiquity.pbc.adelphia.net (surf12-151-178.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.151.178]) by alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id XAA16554 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:44:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006201bee606$70929740$b2973018@pbc.adelphia.net> From: "Erica Pence" To: References: <37B43E1C.3BA8D6AE@missnformed.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Rust out of cotton Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:38:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005F_01BEE5E4.E8853220" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Erica Pence" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01BEE5E4.E8853220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rit dyes sells a rust remover. I used it on an ivory sweater. It got = all the rust out and did not damage the sweater. I bought it at the = grocery store. Good luck! -Poster: Fooled You Does anyone know how to get rust out of white cotton? Someone hung my favorite shirt over the Rod Iron Balcony to dry...Sigh. Thanks, Erin ------=_NextPart_000_005F_01BEE5E4.E8853220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rit dyes sells a rust remover.  I used it on an = ivory=20 sweater.  It got all the rust out and did not damage the = sweater.  I=20 bought it at the grocery store.  Good luck!
-Poster:=20 Fooled You <blue@missnformed.com>

= Does=20 anyone know how to get rust out of white cotton?  Someone hung=20 my
favorite shirt over the Rod Iron Balcony to=20 dry...Sigh.

Thanks,
Erin
------=_NextPart_000_005F_01BEE5E4.E8853220-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 22:41:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02271 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:41:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00937; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:51:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15888 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:48:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15878 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:48:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.3 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 20:48:03 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Third Japanese Clothing Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:56:12 -0400 Message-ID: <000801bee609$0994e680$ab0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" It's hard to imagine participating with the SCA on their hot dusty fields in the Noble court costumes of the Heian period. ou may want to consider something simpler, like a uneme lady-in-waiting costume: http://www-japan.mit.edu/kimono/history-heian3.html or the dress of the Murimachi Period at the end of the Heian: http://www-japan.mit.edu/kimono/history-muromachi.html. Best Wishes, Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Jujenkai@aol.com > Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 7:27 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Japanese Clothing > > > > -Poster: Jujenkai@aol.com > > > Hello, > I am a new member of the Society for Creative Anachronism in > Starkville, Ms > and am having many problems creating what I consider to be my > only choice in > costuming, the Japanese Heian Era. The problem is that I need > patterns to cut > and sew many of the costumes that I would like to make, > particularly the > Karaginu and Mo of the Juni Hitoe. If you could please help > me, I would > greatly appreciate it. I have exhausted the resources of not only my > University and our local libraries, but also I have tried the > Kyoto National > museum and the University of Hawaii's Asian studies > department to no avail. > Please send me any information on Japanese traditional > costuming that you may > have. > > Respectfully, > > Brooks D. Barnes > > ____________________________________________________________ _________ > > Brooks D. Barnes > 506 Greensboro Street > Starkville, Ms 39759 > U.S.A. > Tel (662) 323-5799 > e-mail jujenkai@aol.com > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 22:42:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02276 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:41:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01437; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:55:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16317 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:53:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA16312 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 21:53:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jhill.airmail.net from [207.136.8.3] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.405) with esmtp for sender: id ; Fri, 13 Aug 99 22:53:21 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <003501bee608$c893aa40$033e000a@airmail.net> From: "Linda" To: References: <000101bee5fc$a08a73a0$ab0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Subject: Re: H-COST: Linen cleaning question Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:55:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Linda" The Rit Color Remover (white box, purple writing - there are so many Rit products.....) works wonderfully - do it just according to the instructions on the box, including using a few boxes of the stuff at once if you have a largish washer. Bleach would likely be safe too, on those fibers. Don't use too much - *measure* the bleach, and probably use no more than 8 ounces per washerload. Having done this color bleed thing myself, Matilda ----- Original Message ----- From: Hope H. Dunlap To: Sent: Friday, August 13, 1999 9:25 PM Subject: RE: H-COST: Linen cleaning question > > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > RIT makes a dye remover. > Hope H. Dunlap > > > > > Subject: H-COST: Linen cleaning question > > > > > > > > -Poster: lilinah@grin.net > > > > OK, there seems to be a theme here... > > > > > > Any ideas on how to get my no-longer white linen tunic > white > > again? I'm shy > > of bleach, since it weakens so many fibers, but if there's > a > > safe kind or a > > safe way to use it, i'm willing. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Lilinah > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > _____ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 13 23:58:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02345 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:58:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07550; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:11:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA23397 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:06:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23391 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 23:06:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p7.directcon.net [206.170.184.56]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA11470 for ; Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908140506.WAA11470@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson boning casing, which can be ribbon or can be made by >cutting strips of fabric on the straight and turning in the raw edges [the Q >& D way is to just pink the edges]. Or you can buy commercial bone casing, which is a tubular woven canvas-like material. It saves time and sews on flat, and looks good. Also, since the bone is inside the tube, you can have bones that converge or partly cross, by sewing the edges down only to the meeting point and tacking them at the end. It comes in handy on something like, say, the point of a bodice. It's also important to cut your bones at least 1/2" shorter than the finished casings, 1" is better. Otherwise it'll pop out, no matter how strong your casing is. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 14 07:58:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA31495 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 07:58:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27182; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 07:12:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA20538 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 07:09:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20530 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 07:09:12 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6GNWa07546 (4246) for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:08:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <22029740.24e6c454@aol.com> Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:08:36 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 08/14/1999 1:09:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << Or you can buy commercial bone casing, >> I didn't mention it because it's kinda expensive [as is the tipping fluid...but] and one uses it up real fast. Also, it is very sturdy and good for metal boning but I think it's unnecessary for plastic boning [probably untrue]. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 14 09:14:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31563 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:14:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01775; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 08:25:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26378 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 08:23:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26370 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 08:23:07 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6NHRa20496 (3942) for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 10:22:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 10:22:26 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Simplicity Elizabethan gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com Well said ,Deitmar!!And I wholeheartedly agree. Cheers, Albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 14 09:57:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31576 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:57:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04582; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:10:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00482 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:08:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00470 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:08:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990814150804.HBTJ24388.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 08:08:04 -0700 Message-ID: <37B58649.1485B76@home.com> Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 10:07:53 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown References: <2ea8e036.24e63cd4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > > Where does it go? On a seam or in the middle of a pattern piece? > If it goes in the middle, you can create "vents" [the channel the > bone slips into] 2 ways. I've done this both ways and this was a very clear explanation (IMHO! ) of the methods I use. > If the bones go on a seam..... My shortcut method is not here...if I'm using a full 5/8" seam allowance (not something I do if I draft the pattern myself! ) I finish the edge of the seam allowance and then fold it over and stitch it down. Otherwise, I use the method delineated by AlbertCat. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 14 11:42:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31780 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 11:42:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10897; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 10:55:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10641 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 10:52:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10628 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 10:52:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p15.directcon.net [206.170.184.64]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA20872 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 09:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908141652.JAA20872@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson ><< Or you can buy commercial bone casing, >> > >I didn't mention it because it's kinda expensive [as is the tipping >fluid...but] and one uses it up real fast. I bought a 50 yard roll from Richard the Thread a couple years ago for $35. So far I've made two corsets and 5 or 6 boned bodices, and I still have about 1/3 of the roll. It's not a neccesity, but it's a luxury that makes my life easier. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 14 19:01:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA32237 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 19:01:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13872; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 18:14:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20819 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 18:09:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA20814 for ; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 18:09:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990815001331.3729.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [153.36.72.7] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 14 Aug 1999 17:13:31 PDT Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 17:13:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Thanks for the explaination on the boning... so, let me just make sure here... you sew the boning to the lining, not the actually front piece, right? See, part of my problem was that the pattern I had said to sew it to the actual front piece, which created two seams right up the front of the bodice... to me it looked kinda silly... but if they are in the lining, it makes much more sense. Thanks! Sarah _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 15 01:58:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA32642 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 01:58:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15106; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 01:12:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA26661 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 01:07:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26656 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 01:07:13 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.84] (ppp84.creative.net [208.225.99.84]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA01873; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 00:07:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 00:14:33 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com, SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU Subject: H-COST: Medieval Underpants Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net There have been discussions previously on the existence of Medieval women's undergarments, particularly underpants. Today i was in a local second-hand book store rifling the Art Book section and came across... A 15th century women taking off or putting on what sure look like under-drawers. She already has on her chemise and dress (pardon the inexact terminology here). It was on a wood carving on a misericord from "Saint-Cermin, the Church of Saint-Saturnin, formerly at Saint-Chamart" The photo was plate 90 in: "The Hidden World of Misericords" by Dorothy and Henry Kraus, published by George Braziller I'm sorry i didn't write down the pub. date, but where the price was pencilled in, it was noted that it's out of print. The carving showed a young woman sitting or squatting and pulling on or off what sure appear to be underpants. Details of exact shape and cut are hard (or impossible) to discern, but the garment has two foot-holes, and from the carved shape, it seems to have some length as well (the body and legs are rather bunched up but appear substantial). They are definitely not "panties", but just how long the legs and body are is hard to determine. As for men's undies, it looks like 3 European men are wearing them in 13th c. Spain, although they may have gotten the habit from the Muslims. The painting was from "The Book of Chess, Dice, and Checkers" by Alfonso the Wise/el Sabio. (aka "El libro de los juegos de Ajadrez, Dados y Tablas") and reproduced on pp. 80-81 of "Spain: A History in Art" by Bradley Smith. Sorry, i didn't write down more info. The garments appear to have a waistband (or are folded over at the waist and sewn) with a drawstring. The legs go to about mid-thigh, although one appears to have rolled legs and another has what look like corners folded up and anchored to the waistband. Of course, maybe these are just Muslim men's underpants being worn by European men. Not conclusive proof that they were in use everywhere and at all times, but just a few tidbits. Does anyone know if there's a facsimile edition or a book that reproduces lots of pictures from "El libro de los juegos de Ajadrez, Dados y Tablas"? There are several plates i've seen that give clues to details of Andalusian Muslim garments and i'd really like to see more. By the way, underdrawers were common garments among Muslims males and female. I think i read somewhere that they are even described and prescribed in the Qur'an. You can see them in paintings from Persian to Al-Andalus from around the 13th century (or even a tad earlier) onward through the 16th (when my research stops, since i'm doing this for the SCA). Lilinah SCA'ly known as Anahita Gawri bint-Karim al-hakim al-Fassi _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 15 10:12:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29526 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 10:12:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06930; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 09:26:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18361 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 09:21:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA18351 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 09:21:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 23710 invoked from network); 15 Aug 1999 15:21:48 -0000 Received: from 207-229-149-59.d.enteract.com (HELO lynnx.enteract.com) (207.229.149.59) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 15 Aug 1999 15:21:48 -0000 Message-ID: <37B6FE86.7811@enteract.com> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 10:53:10 -0700 From: lynnx X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: bezants? References: <199908140348.VAA15912@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lynnx Merouda, pray tell, how are you planning to stamp those out? YIS and desparation for a decent stamping-out technique, Sister Ed > Merouda, or she who will have 400 of the little suckers stamped out, > polished, and applied within the next 5 months. > > - -- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 15 10:40:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29582 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 10:40:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09515; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 09:54:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20807 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 09:50:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA20802 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 09:50:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 27142 invoked from network); 15 Aug 1999 15:50:30 -0000 Received: from 207-229-149-59.d.enteract.com (HELO lynnx.enteract.com) (207.229.149.59) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 15 Aug 1999 15:50:30 -0000 Message-ID: <37B70541.7C45@enteract.com> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 11:21:53 -0700 From: lynnx X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Japanese Heian garb References: <199908140348.VAA15912@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lynnx (Jujenkai wrote) > what I consider to be my only choice in costuming, the Japanese Heian > Era. Do you consider this your only choice because of personal taste, or period-icity? Heian is around 1000 AD, so you can go all the way up through Momoyama (ended early 1600s) and still be period. And if you wanna drive the Authenticity Police nuts, try early Edo (stiff pleated kataginu for men, obis widening out for women. Started 1603, does that ring a bell anybody??? Edo period was both socially and garb-wise *as well as temporally* same as Cavalier! (Clothes got more foppish, "gonnes" [from European traders] showed up, changing the role of the sword and armor to more "all show and no _do_" parade stuff, etc.) If you just happen to like Heian, I think there will be some stuff in Lord Effingham's forthcoming Complete Anachronist (on the drawing board now) on it. (Keep an eye out for his latest one, on Japanese armor, too) In the mean time, I'll keep my antennas up... Sister Ed The problem is that I need patterns to cut > and sew many of the costumes that I would like to make, > particularly the Karaginu and Mo of the Juni Hitoe. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 15 16:38:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30399 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 16:38:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10638; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 15:51:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26443 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 15:47:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from anarchy.io.com (anarchy.io.com [199.170.88.101]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26433 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 15:47:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dragon (as1-dialup-79.io.com [206.224.82.79]) by anarchy.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00501 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 15:52:24 -0500 Message-Id: <199908152052.PAA00501@anarchy.io.com> From: "Amanda Reeves" To: Subject: H-COST: Simple Shakespeare question Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 16:50:27 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Amanda Reeves" My sons just finished "Shakespeare Under the Stars" in Wimberley, TX. (they ended their season with a final performance to a crowd of 320!! Standing room only!) http://www.emilyann.org/sutstars.html In "Twelfth Night" what is - cross gartered-? Thanks, Amanda Reeves _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 15 19:19:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30642 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 19:19:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23104; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:32:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11500 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:24:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1102.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.122]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA11495 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 18:24:27 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990816002417.25887.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.229.173.212] by web1102.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 17:24:17 PDT Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 17:24:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell Subject: H-COST: cross-gartered To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carol Mitchell > > In "Twelfth Night" what is - cross gartered-? > > Thanks, > > Amanda Reeves > > crisscross lacings over stockings or hose(tights) Carol > _______________________________________________________ >
Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at Yahoo! Mail.
_________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 15 21:33:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30862 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:33:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06562; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 20:46:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26190 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 20:42:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA26181 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 20:42:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 2329 invoked from network); 16 Aug 1999 02:34:53 -0000 Received: from 95.64.3-6.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO ?207.231.64.95?) (207.231.64.95) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 16 Aug 1999 02:34:53 -0000 X-Sender: karolee@keith.lloyd.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 19:42:08 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: karolee@fenris.net (Karolee Smiley) Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity patterns Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: karolee@fenris.net (Karolee Smiley) A couple of my friends were interested in the new patterns. They are quite excited to have a moderately period pattern available. They, like most people, have a very difficult time drafting patterns from a book. Most people need something to go from and can adapt it. They have access to all the books but are still too overwhelmed to try to create their own. (one of them also has severe back problems and can't wear a corset anyway and likes the uncorseted pattern-even though it is inaccurate) One of the concerns they had though was the inability to find male patterns (for their S.O.s). Does anyone know if Simplicity has, or is planning, corresponding male patterns, especially the Elizabethan? If their out, does anyone have the numbers?? Any other recommendations as to the "best" commercially available patterns for Elizabethans? Thanks in advance. Karolee J. Smiley Kaitlin MacPherson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 15 22:06:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30878 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 22:06:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09694; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:20:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA29682 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:15:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29675 for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 21:15:54 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6EDIa07446 (4465) for ; Sun, 15 Aug 1999 23:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 23:14:54 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Simple Shakespeare question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 08/15/1999 5:50:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, alr@io.com writes: << In "Twelfth Night" what is - cross gartered-? >> Though often depicted as ribbons crisscrossed up the calf, real cross garters were a popular style of keeping one's stockings up with a garter [usually of leather, I think] that passes above the knee, crosses in back & passes also below the knee. IOW...from the front you get a line above & below the knee...from behind you get an "X" behind the knee. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 02:11:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA05168 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 02:11:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA24242; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 01:25:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA21548 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 01:18:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from RBAD59.RBACRXCLU.BAS.ROCHE.COM (gw.bas.roche.com [196.3.50.241]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21539 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 01:18:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rbamsemcn1.bas.roche.com (rbamsemcn1.bas.roche.com [145.245.211.139]) by Roche.COM (PMDF V5.2-31 #33472) with ESMTP id <01JETW6JDIW89ERJDK@Roche.COM> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:18:17 +0200 Received: by rbamsemcn1.bas.roche.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:18:13 +0200 Content-return: allowed Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:16:02 +0200 From: "Holliday, Rachel {DISC~Welwyn}" Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan Blackwork To: "Historic Costume List (E-mail)" , "Historic Costuming (E-mail)" , "H-Needlework (E-mail)" Message-id: <431EB483DFB4D111A2D50000F843C5C401009EC9@rwemsem2.wel.roche.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sensitivity: Company-Confidential Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Holliday, Rachel {DISC~Welwyn}" I'm testing the waters somewhat here. I have quite a pile of sketched of Elizabethan Blackwork from the V&A and other sources. For my own reference I was going to make up the individual motifs for reference, as actual reproductions, stitches everything. They will be done in silk on linen with gold thread, where used. Would anyone else be interested in having these? I'm going to mount mine so that they will be like reference cards that can be referred to time and time again. Let me know what you think. Oh and I'm in the UK but shipping to other parts of the world shouldn't be that difficult. Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 05:44:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA27612 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 05:44:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA01507; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 04:58:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA24021 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 04:54:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hpamgaad.compuserve.com (ah-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.217.158]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA24016 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 04:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaad.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.8) id GAA08515 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 06:53:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 06:52:44 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Alfonso X To: LIST historic costume Message-ID: <199908160652_MC2-8131-F0E9@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id EAA24017 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson Try --http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Gorge/3154/ Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 07:59:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27684 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 07:59:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08537; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 07:13:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA04910 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 07:10:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spamgaae.compuserve.com (as-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.217.148]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04898 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 07:10:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id JAA15636 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:10:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:09:45 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Medieval Underpants To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908160909_MC2-8127-F270@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id HAA04900 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson >As for men's undies, it looks like 3 European men are wearing them in 13th c. Spain, although they may have gotten the habit from the Muslims. >The painting was from "The Book of Chess, Dice, and Checkers" by Alfonso the Wise/el Sabio. (aka "El libro de los juegos de Ajadrez, Dados y Tablas") and reproduced on pp. 80-81 of "Spain: A History in Art" by Bradley Smith. Sorry, i didn't write down more info. >The garments appear to have a waistband (or are folded over at the waist and sewn) with a drawstring. The legs go to about mid-thigh, although one appears to have rolled legs and another has what look like corners folded up and anchored to the waistband. Of course, maybe these are just Muslim men's underpants being worn by European men. They sound like braies which are worn by 13th C men, kinda baggy shorts. In England & most European areas as far as I know. See Mac Bible, Bible morelisee etc for further illustrations. >Does anyone know if there's a facsimile edition or a book that reproduces lots of pictures from "El libro de los juegos de Ajadrez, Dados y Tablas"? There are several plates i've seen that give clues to details of Andalusian Muslim garments and i'd really like to see more. Yes there is but it is terribily expensive $3000 or so, I'd love a copy from the chess etc info myself, but not THAT much !!! I finally tracked it down in Spain the fainted from the shock after converting the figure given ! However on the web somewhere is a page which reproduces many of the pictures. I don't have the web address as my browser crashed as I tried to bookmark it (don't they always do that on interesting stuff ?) but I searched on Alfonso X & chess to find it I think, good luck let me know if you do find it. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 09:45:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27833 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:45:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20029; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:58:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA21333 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:55:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21324 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:55:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA21450.; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:00:24 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:54:13 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5 Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:53:06 +0100 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Kirby Hall Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id IAA21329 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" I was away from my computer for the week before Kirby Hall and so didn't see the recent messages from people planning to be there. I hope some of you managed to meet! I looked for Henk but without success. I had a great time, though. Our music group gave 4 half-hour concerts each day and so had plenty of time in between for lunch and sightseeing. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 11:24:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27889 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:24:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05501; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:36:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14337 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:33:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14322 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 10:33:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p13.directcon.net [206.170.184.112]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA03149 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:33:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908161633.JAA03149@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity patterns Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >One of the concerns they had though was the inability to find male patterns >(for their S.O.s). Does anyone know if Simplicity has, or is planning, >corresponding male patterns, especially the Elizabethan? If theire out, >does anyone have the numbers?? > They don't have an Elizabethan pattern I would recommend, but they do have a drum major pattern that would be fairly easy to convert to a doublet. Shorten the waistline, add skirtings and shoulder wings with appropriate trim, make the sleeve detachable. In fact, this pattern could be useful for a fairly wide range of costumes. Hmm...I wonder if they have a little boy's version? . For some reason, none of the three fabric stores in my town carry Simplicity patterns, so I have to drive 40 miles to buy them. Are Simplicity patterns more expensive for the stores to carry, or what? Margo. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 15:01:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28053 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:01:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10576; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:15:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA01148 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:12:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:root@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01139 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:12:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.151.9.10] (th-0-1.patriot.net [206.151.9.10] (may be forged)) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA18062; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:12:07 -0400 Message-Id: <199908162012.QAA18062@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: H-COST: Gadsby's Symposium Date: Mon, 16 Aug 99 16:14:29 -0000 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: , , , <18cWoman@onelist.com>, , , , , Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gadsby's Tavern Museum has announced their 4th Annual Costume Symposium. The theme this year is "What Shall I wear? I8th-Century Accessories: Completing the Look". The Symposium is Saturday, October 2, 1999, with a study day and demonstrations on Friday, October 1, 1999. The schedule for the study day on Friday, October 1: 9:00 - 10:00 am Registration at Gadsby's Tavern Museum, Alexandria, VA. 10:00 am - 12:30 pm "Accessories Up Close". View and study 18th century accessories from the DAR Museum collection and private collections. 12:30 - 2:00 pm Lunch at Gadsby's Tavern Restaurant (optional, extra fee) 2:15 - 5:00 pm "From the Neck Up" Hands-on demonstrations with experts on reproducing neckwear, hats, caps, and hair items for exhibitions and reenactments. Booths will include: Silly Sisters, Hats and caps of the 1770s Betty Kelly, Wigmaking, hair weaving, head forms, and styles for men Janice Ryan, Women's hairstyles and wigs Polly Willman, Hat and head forms for display and storage More to be announced! The Friday study day and demonstrations cost: $50.00 early bird and Gadsby's Tavern Museum Society members, $65.00 after September 3, 1999. The Schedule for the Costume Symposium on Saturday October 2: 8:00 am Registration and Coffee at Gadsby's Tavern Museum 8:45 am Welcome and Introduction Gretchen M. Bulova, Director, Gadsby's Tavern Museum Sally Queen, Principal, Sally Queen & Associates 9:00 - 10:00 am "The Very Picture of Display: Furnishings and Clothing" Barbara G. Carson, Associate Professor, George Washington University 10:00 - 10:15 am "A 250th Birthday Salute to Alexandria" Jean Taylor Federico, Director, Office of Historic Alexandria 10:45 - 11:45 am "The Lowest Ebb of Misery: Death and Mourning at George Washington's Mount Vernon" Mary V. Thompson, Research Specialist, Mount Vernon Ladies Association 11:45 - 12:00 noon "Stockings 1770 Style" Carol Kocian, Independent Scholar and Researcher 12:00 - 1:30 pm Box Lunch (optional, extra fee) 1:30 - 2:15 pm "Shoes in the Age of Revolution, 1775-1800" D.A. Saguto, Cordwainer and Master Boot & Shoemaker, Colonial Williamsburg Foundation 2:15 - 3:30 pm "Fans: Art or Accessories?" Polly Willman, Costume Curator 4:00 - 4:30 pm "That Art Might Help..." Clarissa Dillon, Ph. D. 4:30 - 5:15 pm "Does Your Whole Equal the Sum of Your Parts? Defining 18th Century Proportions" Janice Ryan, Proprietor, Recollections of J. P. Ryan Cost for Saturday's Symposium: $60.00 early bird and Gadsby's Tavern Museum Society members, $75.00 after September 3. Sign up today! To Register: Please register for the entire conference or make your selections a la carte. Alexandria has many wonderful restaurants within walking distance of the conference, or for your convenience select a box lunch which can be eaten at the museum. Checks payable to Gadsby's Tavern Museum. Early Bird Rate, register before September 3. ______ Friday, October 1 - Study Day. $50.00 per person/$65.00 after September 3. ______ October 1 - Lunch (optional) $15.00 per person ______ Saturday, October 2 - Symposium. $60.00 per person/$75.00 after September 3. ______ October 2 - Box Lunch (optional) $10.00 per person ______ Full conference registration. $135.00 per person/$165.00 after September 3. Send registraton information to: Gadsby's Tavern Museum 134 N. Royal Street Alexandria, Virginia 22314 (703) 838-4242, fax (703) 838-4270 Name ________________________________________________________ Address _____________________________________________________ City/State/Zip ______________________________________________ Phone: work ___________________ home ___________________ Institutional Affiliation: __________________________________ (please keep to one line) Credit Card: Mastercard/Visa Number ________________________ Expiration Date ________________________ Cardholder's Signature ________________________ Total Registration Amount Enclosed $ _________________ Box lunch preference: Turkey or Vegetarian (please circle one) Hotel rooms have been reserved at the Holiday Inn Select, one block from the Museum. Please reserve a room prior to September 8, 1999. Call 1-800-368-5047 and ask for the "Gadsby's Tavern Museum" rates. The conference rate is $130.00 per night. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 15:24:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28068 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:24:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15557; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:38:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06417 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:35:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06409 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:35:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA05129 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 13:35:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-65.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.65]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA28390 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 13:35:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002901bee827$67669fe0$e7c0fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "costume list" Subject: H-COST: lrish liene Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 13:39:13 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0026_01BEE7EC.B9F21220" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BEE7EC.B9F21220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some time ago someone posted to the list that the bag sleeves of the = liene. It was said that this was a modern invention and not at all = period. =20 Can I get more info about this please? Where is it documented? I have one and have found that even though the look may be nice, they = are a pain to wear. I catch it on the door knob leaving the house, I = can't drive without tying knots in them. The dumb things get caught up = in the steering wheel. All this -before- I get to fair... At fair it = gets worse. I have 3 kids, the sleeves make it seem like 5. =20 If it is not a period garment, what is the point? :) Michelle ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BEE7EC.B9F21220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Some time ago someone posted to the = list that=20 the bag sleeves of the liene.  It was said that this was a modern = invention=20 and not at all period. 
   Can I get more info = about this=20 please?  Where is it documented?
 
  I have one and have found = that even=20 though the look may be nice, they are a pain to wear.  I catch it = on the=20 door knob leaving the house, I can't drive without tying knots in = them. =20 The dumb things get caught up in the steering wheel. All this -before- I = get to=20 fair... At fair it gets worse.  I have 3 kids, the sleeves make it = seem=20 like 5. 
    If it is not a = period=20 garment, what is the point?  :)
   =20 Michelle
------=_NextPart_000_0026_01BEE7EC.B9F21220-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 15:38:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28074 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:37:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18360; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:51:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09584 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:49:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA09574 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:49:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 13:48:54 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="============_-1277282325==_ma============" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <002901bee827$67669fe0$e7c0fea9@gunsafes> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 13:48:53 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: lrish liene Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward --============_-1277282325==_ma============ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Some time ago someone posted to the list that the bag sleeves of the >liene. It was said that this was a modern invention and not at all >period. > Can I get more info about this please? Where is it documented? > > I have one and have found that even though the look may be nice, they >are a pain to wear. I catch it on the door knob leaving the house, I >can't drive without tying knots in them. The dumb things get caught up in >the steering wheel. All this -before- I get to fair... At fair it gets >worse. I have 3 kids, the sleeves make it seem like 5. > If it is not a period garment, what is the point? :) > Michelle Somewhere in the archives, I seem to recall MaggieRose admitting that she and someone else made it up in the days when the dirt at the original Renaissance Faire was new. Maggie, we could use your memory about now. Tell us a story, Aunt Maggie. 8) LynnD Who has know her not quite as long. --============_-1277282325==_ma============ Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii" Some time ago someone posted to the list that the bag sleeves of the liene. It was said that this was a modern invention and not at all period. Can I get more info about this please? Where is it documented? I have one and have found that even though the look may be nice, they are a pain to wear. I catch it on the door knob leaving the house, I can't drive without tying knots in them. The dumb things get caught up in the steering wheel. All this -before- I get to fair... At fair it gets worse. I have 3 kids, the sleeves make it seem like 5. If it is not a period garment, what is the point? :) Michelle Somewhere in the archives, I seem to recall MaggieRose admitting that she and someone else made it up in the days when the dirt at the original Renaissance Faire was new. Maggie, we could use your memory about now. Tell us a story, Aunt Maggie. 8) LynnD Who has know her not quite as long. --============_-1277282325==_ma============-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 16:31:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28173 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:31:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27591; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:44:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA21095 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:41:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21066 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:41:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p37.directcon.net [206.170.184.136]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA11361 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908162141.OAA11361@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: lrish liene Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 01:39 PM 08/16/1999 -0700, you wrote: >Some time ago someone posted to the list that the bag sleeves of the liene. It was said that this was a modern invention and not at all period. > Can I get more info about this please? Where is it documented? > Umm...it's not documented, that's the point. I saved the entire discussion on leines, though. If you like I can email them to you. To summarize, what happened is basically that someone saw a period picture (probably on of the De Heere sketches) of someone wearing a liene, a shirt with large wide sleeves. That same person had probably read one of the period accounts that refers to leines being pleated. In the painting, the sleeve was pushed up along a bent arm, and it was assumed that that the wrinkles along the top of the arm were pleats or gathers. So, people started making pleated and gathered sleeves. Other people liked the look, and started making even longer and fuller pleated and gathered sleeves. Someone else decided that the easiest way to hold those pleats or gathers in place was to sew a strip of trim or self fabric on top of them. Another person decided to decorate those strips with embroidery. Another person noticed just how big those sleeves were, and thought "Hey! I could carry a lot of stuff in there, if only the ends of the sleeves were sewn up!" So the sleeves started to be sewn up the fronts, with just a hand opening, and there were imprompteau competitions to see how many 6 packs or cats or whatever one could carry in a sleeve. Meanwhile, someone else noticed what a pain in the rear those sleeves were, and that they would be much easier to deal with if they could be pulled up out of the way. Hence, the drawstring. Today, some 25-30 years later, we have a garment which has become the standard accepted item. It exists in the thousands, is readily available from many merchants, and it never existed in the period it purports to represent. In the world of traditional music, this kind of thing is known as "The Folk Process". Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 17:17:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28252 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:17:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03273; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:26:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00496 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:23:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00491 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:23:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-86-190.s190.tnt6.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.86.190]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA18160 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:25:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <012101bee835$b40b4220$743eaccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: History Time Line Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:21:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" A good while back people on the list were discussing wanting a good time line on history. I found one at Christy's Garden of History, http://www.smokylake.com/Christy/History.htm Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 17:47:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28291 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:47:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06956; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:59:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07313 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:57:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1104.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.124]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA07305 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:57:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990816225714.16542.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [38.226.171.41] by web1104.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:57:14 PDT Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:57:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carol Mitchell Can't they be purchased through a website? Carol === Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 18:05:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28340 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:05:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09442; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:19:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10914 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:16:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10902 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:16:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.143]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:11:46 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity patterns Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:10:10 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37c099e5.69876789@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <19990816225714.16542.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> In-Reply-To: <19990816225714.16542.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id RAA10909 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Mon, 16 Aug 1999 15:57:14 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > >-Poster: Carol Mitchell > > >Can't they be purchased through a website? >Carol Yes, but when you buy them directly from simplicity, you hve to pay the full price as well as shipping. The fabric stores that carry them often have them for half price or even less. Convenience can cost you :( Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 18:12:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28361 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:12:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10202; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:26:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12078 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:23:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12048 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 17:23:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a ([24.4.53.172]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990816232323.VABH29356.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@c59303a> for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:23:23 -0700 Message-ID: <003201bee840$10fe3a00$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: References: <19990816225714.16542.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity patterns Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:33:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Not at the half price deal that most fabric places have them for. However if you have a Wal-mart they sell them, they may sell them online. Most sewing stores may also have an online parent that may sell them online for half off as well. Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide ----- Original Message ----- From: Carol Mitchell To: Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 5:57 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity patterns : : -Poster: Carol Mitchell : : : Can't they be purchased through a website? : Carol : === : Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild : _________________________________________________________ : Do You Yahoo!? : Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com : : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 19:06:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28401 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 19:06:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17490; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:19:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20447 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:16:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20438 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:16:55 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnoraK@aol.com Received: from AnnoraK@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ICOa06614 (3973) for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:16:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:15:58 EDT Subject: H-COST: Sorta OT -- Treadle parts?? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnoraK@aol.com Hi! Sorta off-topic question here, but with the wide array of experience and connections that are on the list, it seemed a good place to ask. I've recently acquired a "National Two Spool" treadle sewing machine. I didn't intend it to be my full-time, regular use machine, but just rather a toy or for while watching TV. I didn't really check it out all that much before I brought it home (hey, it was free) and so now have a problem. It's missing it's throat plate and I don't know if or where I could find a replacement. My local repair shop has no clue, either. The mechanics turn smoothly now that they've been WD-40'd and I've found drive belts at Newark Dressmaking Supply, making the throat plate my only obstacle to a functioning treadle machine. Any suggestions? Thanks! Jen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 19:22:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28413 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 19:22:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19094; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:30:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21808 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:27:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA21802 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:27:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908170027.SAA21802@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 17115 invoked from network); 16 Aug 1999 18:27:18 -0600 Received: from ts26-35.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.149) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 16 Aug 1999 18:27:18 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan Blackwork Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 18:32:26 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" Yes! I would be very interested. Here in the Barony of Arn Hold we have a successful Embroiders Guild and it would be good reference material. Kathy ---------- > From: Holliday, Rachel {DISC~Welwyn} > To: Historic Costume List (E-mail) ; Historic Costuming (E-mail) ; H-Needlework (E-mail) > Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan Blackwork > Date: Monday, August 16, 1999 1:16 AM > > > -Poster: "Holliday, Rachel {DISC~Welwyn}" > > I'm testing the waters somewhat here. I have quite a pile of sketched of > Elizabethan Blackwork from the V&A and other sources. For my own reference > I was going to make up the individual motifs for reference, as actual > reproductions, stitches everything. They will be done in silk on linen with > gold thread, where used. Would anyone else be interested in having these? > I'm going to mount mine so that they will be like reference cards that can > be referred to time and time again. Let me know what you think. Oh and I'm > in the UK but shipping to other parts of the world shouldn't be that > difficult. > Elizabeth > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 21:55:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28510 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:55:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06956; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:08:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA12020 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:04:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA12010 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:04:47 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:04:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 1738 invoked from network); 17 Aug 1999 02:57:29 -0000 Received: from 14.64.3-8.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.14) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 1999 02:57:29 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990816200623.3affcaec@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan Blackwork Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 09:16 AM 8/16/99 +0200, Holliday, Rachel {DISC~Welwyn} wrote: > >I'm testing the waters somewhat here. I have quite a pile of sketched of >Elizabethan Blackwork from the V&A and other sources. For my own reference >I was going to make up the individual motifs for reference, as actual >reproductions, stitches everything. They will be done in silk on linen with >gold thread, where used. Would anyone else be interested in having these? >I'm going to mount mine so that they will be like reference cards that can >be referred to time and time again. Let me know what you think. Oh and I'm >in the UK but shipping to other parts of the world shouldn't be that >difficult. >Elizabeth Oh, a modern version of a sampler! Rather than sending actual samples, is it possible for you to scan them (with a scale, whether mm or inches, or with a drafted-out copy of the pattern) and either post them on a web page for download or send them as graphic file attachments to those requesting them? Here in the States there are stores where you can "hire" a computer with scanner for an hour or so and store the images on disk (I'm going to check it out since I don't yet have a scanner). I would love to have a set of documented patterns to play with! Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 21:57:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28514 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:57:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07447; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:10:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA12562 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:07:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA12532 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:07:39 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:07:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 2236 invoked from network); 17 Aug 1999 03:00:23 -0000 Received: from 14.64.3-8.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.14) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 1999 03:00:23 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990816200917.3affa7ac@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Sorta OT -- Treadle parts?? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 08:15 PM 8/16/99 EDT, AnnoraK@aol.com wrote: > >Hi! Sorta off-topic question here, but with the wide array of experience and >connections that are on the list, it seemed a good place to ask. I've >recently acquired a "National Two Spool" treadle sewing machine. I didn't >intend it to be my full-time, regular use machine, but just rather a toy or >for while watching TV. I didn't really check it out all that much before I >brought it home (hey, it was free) and so now have a problem. It's missing >it's throat plate and I don't know if or where I could find a replacement. >My local repair shop has no clue, either. The mechanics turn smoothly now >that they've been WD-40'd and I've found drive belts at Newark Dressmaking >Supply, making the throat plate my only obstacle to a functioning treadle >machine. Any suggestions? > >Thanks! >Jen There is *at least* one antique sewing machine collectors' email list. You might try a web search to find it (or perhaps someone on *this* list is already on it), join, and post your query. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 21:59:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28518 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:59:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07836; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:12:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA12963 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:10:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA12955 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:10:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990817031326.7122.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.250.3.224] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:13:26 PDT Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:13:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I went out and purchased the new Elizabethan pattern this evening. While the pattern itself is all right (I WILL be chaning the rounded bodice bottom... I personally don't like the look) I was less than thrilled with the colors they used... but all that aside, the pattern isn't bad... However, they don't have the new books in for the patterns... does anyone know the number for the new Celtic pattern Simplicity just put out? Thanks. Sarah _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 22:01:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28529 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:01:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08301; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:15:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA13401 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:13:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13359 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:13:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.3.23.212]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990817031311.LYCC9770.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@home.com> for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:13:11 -0700 Message-ID: <37B8D347.30112370@home.com> Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:13:11 -0400 From: Liz /cozit Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume Subject: H-COST: Irish liene - more questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Liz /cozit Thanks, Margo! I was starting to wonder if I was just imagining that the sleeves just looked full, or what! The pics I've seen look like a very full sleeve, tied at the wrist (though occasionally, they're pushed up to the elbow...those pics really show that the sleeves were full). I haven't seen any that looked like they were "open" at the end, though. I'm still planning to make my sleeves *that* way, not the gathered up the top of the sleeve and kimonoed way...the only problem is... Has anyone ever tried to put that much material up (just off, I guess) near the shoulder...without cartridge pleating. I'm guessing that it won't gather...too much material to too little space. What about small, overlapping pleats? With maybe a couple of inches at the armpit left smooth? How about an armscrye (sp?)...would that work, or seem period, or even be necessary, considering how much material is up top and available for movement? Boy, am I glad this list is here. Funny that someone else brought up almost the exact same thing I've been thinking the last couple of weeks, at the same time I had questions.... -Elisabeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 22:06:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28540 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:06:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08923; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:20:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14053 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:18:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14047 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:18:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.159 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:17:38 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Sorta OT -- Treadle parts?? Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:58:50 -0400 Message-ID: <000801bee860$472a1fc0$9f0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" On the Web, search for vintage sewing machine parts and treadle sewing machine parts on http://www.metacrawler.com. There are 3-4 outstanding Web Sites which help owners find parts. Sorry, I don't have their URL's handy, but did use them successfully to find a 60 year old manual last year for a friend's vintage machine. I thought the best one was the one run by a fellow in Hawaii. If you have a child, it is the best thing to learn on, because it goes just as slow as you feel comfortable going. And going fast is a blast! Good luck. It's worth having that throat plate made to fit if you can't find an old one one. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of AnnoraK@aol.com > Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 8:16 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Sorta OT -- Treadle parts?? > > > > -Poster: AnnoraK@aol.com > > Hi! Sorta off-topic question here, but with the wide array > of experience and > connections that are on the list, it seemed a good place to > ask. I've > recently acquired a "National Two Spool" treadle sewing > machine. I didn't > intend it to be my full-time, regular use machine, but just > rather a toy or > for while watching TV. I didn't really check it out all that > much before I > brought it home (hey, it was free) and so now have a problem. > It's missing > it's throat plate and I don't know if or where I could find a > replacement. > My local repair shop has no clue, either. The mechanics turn > smoothly now > that they've been WD-40'd and I've found drive belts at > Newark Dressmaking > Supply, making the throat plate my only obstacle to a > functioning treadle > machine. Any suggestions? > > Thanks! > Jen > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 22:07:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28544 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:07:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08985; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:21:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA14114 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:18:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14108 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:18:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.159 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:18:03 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: lrish liene Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:13:36 -0400 Message-ID: <000e01bee860$59b214e0$9f0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199908162141.OAA11361@zeus.directcon.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Drawings and watercolors of the 16th Century show the leine with true bag sleeves--very much period. The drawstring sleeve is something else, not to be confused with the traditional bag sleeve. The drawstring sleeve may be just modern "American Celtic." If you look at the few available drawings, sculptures, and paintings of leines through about 8 centuries, you will see that the leine changed shape. The bag sleeve of the 16th Century shows the influence of fashions elsewhere at the time. H. L. McClintock and Dunbar and Dunlevy contain reproductions of the primary source material, but I don't have them now, so can't specify page numbers. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Margo Anderson > Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 5:41 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: lrish liene > > > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > At 01:39 PM 08/16/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >Some time ago someone posted to the list that the bag > sleeves of the liene. > It was said that this was a modern invention and not at all period. > > Can I get more info about this please? Where is it documented? > > > Umm...it's not documented, that's the point. > > I saved the entire discussion on leines, though. If you like > I can email > them to you. > > To summarize, what happened is basically that someone saw a > period picture > (probably on of the De Heere sketches) of someone wearing a > liene, a shirt > with large wide sleeves. That same person had probably read one of the > period accounts that refers to leines being pleated. In > the painting, the > sleeve was pushed up along a bent arm, and it was assumed > that that the > wrinkles along the top of the arm were pleats or gathers. > So, people started making pleated and gathered sleeves. > Other people liked > the look, and started making even longer and fuller pleated > and gathered > sleeves. > > Someone else decided that the easiest way to hold those > pleats or gathers in > place was to sew a strip of trim or self fabric on top of > them. Another > person decided to decorate those strips with embroidery. > > Another person noticed just how big those sleeves were, and > thought "Hey! I > could carry a lot of stuff in there, if only the ends of the > sleeves were > sewn up!" So the sleeves started to be sewn up the fronts, > with just a hand > opening, and there were imprompteau competitions to see how > many 6 packs or > cats or whatever one could carry in a sleeve. > > > Meanwhile, someone else noticed what a pain in the rear those > sleeves were, > and that they would be much easier to deal with if they could > be pulled up > out of the way. Hence, the drawstring. > > Today, some 25-30 years later, we have a garment which has become the > standard accepted item. It exists in the thousands, is > readily available > from many merchants, and it never existed in the period it purports to > represent. > > In the world of traditional music, this kind of thing is > known as "The Folk > Process". > > Margo Anderson > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 22:17:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28550 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:17:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10263; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:31:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15474 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:29:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15467 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:29:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.159 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:28:34 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Irish liene - more questions Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:34:22 -0400 Message-ID: <001201bee861$d2164860$9f0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <37B8D347.30112370@home.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" By the way, for the "bag sleeve," I believe it was cartridge pleated or otherwise gathered into the shoulder, with a slit in the front of the sleeve at the inside of the elbow for the arm to come out. The rest of the sleeve hung down behind the forearm and could be used as a pocket. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Liz /cozit > Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 11:13 PM > To: h-costume > Subject: H-COST: Irish liene - more questions > > > > -Poster: Liz /cozit > > Thanks, Margo! > > I was starting to wonder if I was just imagining that the sleeves just > looked full, or what! > > The pics I've seen look like a very full sleeve, tied at the wrist > (though occasionally, they're pushed up to the elbow...those > pics really > show that the sleeves were full). I haven't seen any that looked like > they were "open" at the end, though. > > I'm still planning to make my sleeves *that* way, not the gathered up > the top of the sleeve and kimonoed way...the only problem is... > > Has anyone ever tried to put that much material up (just off, I guess) > near the shoulder...without cartridge pleating. I'm guessing that it > won't gather...too much material to too little space. What > about small, > overlapping pleats? With maybe a couple of inches at the armpit left > smooth? How about an armscrye (sp?)...would that work, or > seem period, > or even be necessary, considering how much material is up top and > available for movement? > > > Boy, am I glad this list is here. Funny that someone else brought up > almost the exact same thing I've been thinking the last > couple of weeks, > at the same time I had questions.... > > -Elisabeth > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 22:27:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28572 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:27:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11344; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:41:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16712 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:38:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16706 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:38:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.159 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:38:13 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: lrish liene Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:41:44 -0400 Message-ID: <001301bee863$2a218a00$9f0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199908162141.OAA11361@zeus.directcon.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Drawings and watercolors of the 16th Century show the leine with true bag sleeves--very much period. The drawstring sleeve is something else, not to be confused with the traditional bag sleeve. The drawstring sleeve may be just modern "American Celtic." If you look at the few available drawings, sculptures, and paintings of leines through about 8 centuries, you will see that the leine changed shape. The bag sleeve of the 16th Century shows the influence of fashions elsewhere at the time. H. L. McClintock and Dunbar and Dunlevy contain reproductions of the primary source material, but I don't have them now, so can't specify page numbers. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Margo Anderson > Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 5:41 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: lrish liene > > > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > At 01:39 PM 08/16/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >Some time ago someone posted to the list that the bag > sleeves of the liene. > It was said that this was a modern invention and not at all period. > > Can I get more info about this please? Where is it documented? > > > Umm...it's not documented, that's the point. > > I saved the entire discussion on leines, though. If you like > I can email > them to you. > > To summarize, what happened is basically that someone saw a > period picture > (probably on of the De Heere sketches) of someone wearing a > liene, a shirt > with large wide sleeves. That same person had probably read one of the > period accounts that refers to leines being pleated. In > the painting, the > sleeve was pushed up along a bent arm, and it was assumed > that that the > wrinkles along the top of the arm were pleats or gathers. > So, people started making pleated and gathered sleeves. > Other people liked > the look, and started making even longer and fuller pleated > and gathered > sleeves. > > Someone else decided that the easiest way to hold those > pleats or gathers in > place was to sew a strip of trim or self fabric on top of > them. Another > person decided to decorate those strips with embroidery. > > Another person noticed just how big those sleeves were, and > thought "Hey! I > could carry a lot of stuff in there, if only the ends of the > sleeves were > sewn up!" So the sleeves started to be sewn up the fronts, > with just a hand > opening, and there were imprompteau competitions to see how > many 6 packs or > cats or whatever one could carry in a sleeve. > > > Meanwhile, someone else noticed what a pain in the rear those > sleeves were, > and that they would be much easier to deal with if they could > be pulled up > out of the way. Hence, the drawstring. > > Today, some 25-30 years later, we have a garment which has become the > standard accepted item. It exists in the thousands, is > readily available > from many merchants, and it never existed in the period it purports to > represent. > > In the world of traditional music, this kind of thing is > known as "The Folk > Process". > > Margo Anderson > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 22:27:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28576 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:27:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11347; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:41:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16741 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:38:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16736 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:38:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.159 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 20:38:17 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Sorta OT -- Treadle parts?? Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:46:01 -0400 Message-ID: <001401bee863$2fdbe8a0$9f0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" On the Web, search for vintage sewing machine parts and treadle sewing machine parts on http://www.metacrawler.com. There are 3-4 outstanding Web Sites which help owners find parts. Sorry, I don't have their URL's handy, but did use them successfully to find a 60 year old manual last year for a friend's vintage machine. I thought the best one was the one run by a fellow in Hawaii. If you have a child, it is the best thing to learn on, because it goes just as slow as you feel comfortable going. And going fast is a blast! Good luck. It's worth having that throat plate made to fit if you can't find an old one one. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 23:29:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28655 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:29:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17763; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:43:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA24345 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:40:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24338 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:40:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.3.23.212]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990817044035.MMIB9770.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@home.com> for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:40:35 -0700 Message-ID: <37B8E7C3.1DC48C9A@home.com> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:40:35 -0400 From: Liz /cozit Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:Irish leine..bag sleeves? References: <199908170338.VAA16725@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Liz /cozit > > - -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > Drawings and watercolors of the 16th Century show the leine > with true bag sleeves--very much period. The drawstring > sleeve is something else, not to be confused with the > traditional bag sleeve. The drawstring sleeve may be just > modern "American Celtic." If you look at the few available > drawings, sculptures, and paintings of leines through about > 8 centuries, you will see that the leine changed shape. The > bag sleeve of the 16th Century shows the influence of > fashions elsewhere at the time. H. L. McClintock and Dunbar > and Dunlevy contain reproductions of the primary source > material, but I don't have them now, so can't specify page > numbers. Have you come across any of these pictures on the web? I'm truly interested, but so far I haven't found any pictures that don't look like they could be just *very* full sleeves,rectangular, gathered normally at top and bottom. > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >By the way, for the "bag sleeve," I believe it was cartridge >pleated or otherwise gathered into the shoulder, with a slit >in the front of the sleeve at the inside of the elbow for >the arm to come out. The rest of the sleeve hung down >behind the forearm and could be used as a pocket. The other question...is you mention finding a picture that shows the forearm portion of the sleeve hanging down. Do you remember what that picture was (or where about you saw it)? Are you sure it was the leine and not the oversleeve (I've seen a couple of pictures where the leine was pushed up and the sleeve of the overgarment was hanging, at least partially. Honestly, I'm not doubting that you've seen these, but I haven't come across them yet, and I'm interested in seeing as many relative pictures as I can before scissors meet the fabric. Having formed a few opinions about the supposedly authentic patterns out there (and Margo's story about how they came about sounds believable), I'm trying to check out as many pictures as I can to form my own opinion of how I want to make my leine....and I've got to get that done before I can fit the bodice of the dress.... Thanks for the info! -Elisabeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 16 23:36:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28661 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:36:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18341; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:50:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25186 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:47:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25177 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:47:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29247 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:47:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-178.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.178]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA13128 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 21:47:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000201bee86c$31502300$2461fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "costume list" Subject: H-COST: comercial patterns Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:06:22 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0058_01BEE7F0.84E4B160" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BEE7F0.84E4B160 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable One benefit, I think to having purchased commercial patterns is = pictures. You get to look at possible color combinations, shapes, = sizing (differences with cut of pieces) and personal enjoyment. I like patterns. Sometimes, I am in the mood to sew and I am not = sure what. I go through my file cabinet and look at the fronts of all = the pattern envelopes. I can see I want to do something like 'this' = but, maybe with 'that' from another envelope. =20 The measurements given for fabric lengths help give you an idea of = what you may need to buy. For some reason I always forget just how much = fabric sleeves eat up. I never get it right. I look at arms and think = of how small they are in comparison to a torso and end up miss judging = them every time. At 99 cents a shot, I buy one of each size. It helps when you = are making a garment for someone else. My sister-in-law is a apple and = I am a pear. When I ask her what she wants to wear, I can show her = pictures of something* she* can help make. She doesn't have much pattern = experience. I can also make polite suggestions for a hopefully = flattering fit. Visualizing can be difficult when dealing with an = experienced seamstress, a nightmare with an inexperienced. I am sure = all of us can remember a time when they have tried to describe a cut or = gown or whatever. You know perfectly well what you are talking about = but the inexperienced sewer has no idea what all that jargon is. = Pictures make things much more simple. Michelle ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BEE7F0.84E4B160 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
One benefit, I think to having = purchased=20 commercial patterns is pictures.  You get to look at possible color = combinations, shapes, sizing (differences with cut of pieces) and = personal=20 enjoyment.
  I like patterns.  = Sometimes, I am in=20 the mood to sew and I  am not sure what.  I go through my file = cabinet=20 and look at the fronts of all the pattern envelopes.  I can see I = want to=20 do something like 'this' but, maybe with 'that' from another = envelope. =20
   The measurements given = for fabric=20 lengths help give you an idea of what you may need to buy.  For = some reason=20 I always forget just how much fabric sleeves eat up.  I never get = it right.=20 I look at arms and think of how small they are in comparison to a torso = and end=20 up miss judging them every time.
       = At 99 cents=20 a shot, I buy one of each size.  It helps  when you are making = a=20 garment for someone else.  My sister-in-law is a apple and I am a=20 pear.  When I ask her what she wants to wear, I can show her = pictures of=20 something* she* can help make. She doesn't have much pattern experience. = I can=20 also make polite suggestions for a hopefully flattering fit.  = Visualizing=20 can be difficult when dealing with an experienced seamstress, a = nightmare with=20 an inexperienced.  I am sure all of us can remember a time when = they have=20 tried to describe a cut or gown or whatever.  You know perfectly = well what=20 you are talking about but the inexperienced sewer has no idea what all = that=20 jargon is.  Pictures make things much more simple.
 
   = Michelle
------=_NextPart_000_0058_01BEE7F0.84E4B160-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 00:02:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28694 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:02:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20953; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:16:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA27944 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:13:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27938 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:13:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08957 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-178.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.178]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA27920 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:13:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005b01bee86f$d1787960$2461fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity patterns Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:17:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Are >Simplicity patterns more expensive for the stores to carry, or what? > >Margo. > I can't imagine that they would be, otherwise, stores that sell them at 99 cents would be bankrupt... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 00:21:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28712 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:21:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22597; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:35:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA00249 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:32:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00233 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:32:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15589 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:32:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-178.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.178]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08365 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:32:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009401bee872$7808a1e0$2461fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: lrish liene Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 22:36:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >Today, some 25-30 years later, we have a garment which has become the >standard accepted item. It exists in the thousands, is readily available >from many merchants, and it never existed in the period it purports to >represent. This amazes me. It is now considered one of the main pieces to a Scottish or Irish costume for both men and women. The closest thing I have seen documented was a Roman sleeve. It had a circular piece that then ends of the bagged sleeve were pleated onto, except for the top of the circle. (Open for your hand to come out, of course.) But, I haven't seen anything with the pleates or gathers up the arm...Funny, I never noticed the lack of them in pictures. Thanks for the history lesson. :) Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 00:51:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28723 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:51:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24641; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:05:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA03080 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:00:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03072 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:00:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA24175 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:00:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-178.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.178]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA22414 for ; Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00be01bee876$6cc9c4e0$2461fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Irish liene - more questions Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:04:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > >-Poster: Liz /cozit >Has anyone ever tried to put that much material up (just off, I guess) >near the shoulder...without cartridge pleating. I'm guessing that it >won't gather...too much material to too little space. What about small, >overlapping pleats? With maybe a couple of inches at the armpit left >smooth? How about an armscrye (sp?)...would that work, or seem period, >or even be necessary, considering how much material is up top and >available for movement? I have made them two different ways. The first way: When cutting your sleeve add a generous seam allowance to the edge that will be the top side of your sleeve. Sew them together. This seam allowance will be casing. After stiching, fingerpress open the seam, folding them (ironing helps tremendously) away from eachother. Turn under again, iron and stitch to form your casing. You should end up with two tubes all the way down the length of your sleeve. You can add a ribbon in a couple of ways, this all depends on how much junk you want in your way when you try to reach for something. One, is to start and end at the shoulder. Using one ribbon, enter, go down the length of your sleeve, out, then back up the other side of your casing. The other way is to do the same thing but start and end at the wrist end. I did mine at the wrist so that I could easily access the ribbon to let down or raise the length, depending on the weather. You can permanently set the length by sewing the ribbons down into the shoulder seam. The second way: Boy this is cheating... There is a product on the market use for making curtains. I am not sure of the name but it is available everywhere. It is a long strip with two rows of thick stitching, used for pleating. Sew this pleating tape to the top seam of your sleeve, finish the ends and draw it up. Thats it... Another idea is to pleat, then cover with trim, blackwork, knotwork, etc. I haven't done it myself but I have seen it done. It looks very pretty. Pleat, handtack then sew you trim. Easy but not adjustible. I got cold once at a fair and that one time I appreciated being able to let the things down. I have gotten so fed up with catching the sleeves on things that if I weren't still breast feeding I would toss the leine out! ( I made my chemise with two open sections in the seam down the front to allow for feeding under my surcoat.) I won't be making any more of these... Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 01:25:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28738 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 01:25:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26589; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:39:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA06131 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:37:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from stan.lcc.net (stan.lcc.net [207.70.172.240]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06124 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:37:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from chari (hunt-pri2-a40.lcc.net [207.70.180.88]) by stan.lcc.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA08222 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 01:36:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990817013448.007dddb0@lcc.net> X-Sender: talis@lcc.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 01:34:48 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: talis Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity patterns In-Reply-To: <19990817031326.7122.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: talis >However, they don't have the new books in for the >patterns... does anyone know the number for the new >Celtic pattern Simplicity just put out? > Yep its 0663 :). I bought both this past weekend. Chari _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 02:31:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA21471 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 02:31:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28918; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 01:42:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA11229 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 01:39:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from RBAD33.RBACRXCLU.BAS.ROCHE.COM (mail-external-basel.bas.roche.com [196.3.50.190]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA11222 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 01:39:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rbamsemcn1.bas.roche.com (rbamsemcn1.bas.roche.com [145.245.211.139]) by Roche.COM (PMDF V5.2-31 #33472) with ESMTP id <01JEVB5RT1K69ERY25@Roche.COM> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:38:20 +0200 Received: by rbamsemcn1.bas.roche.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:38:17 +0200 Content-return: allowed Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:38:17 +0200 From: "Holliday, Rachel {DISC~Welwyn}" Subject: H-COST: Re: Elizabethan Blackwork To: "Historic Costume List (E-mail)" Message-id: <431EB483DFB4D111A2D50000F843C5C401009ED4@rwemsem2.wel.roche.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sensitivity: Company-Confidential Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Holliday, Rachel {DISC~Welwyn}" As a few people are interested I thought that I would post this to the list. In reply to one persons query about scanning the designs, I wouldn't mind doing this if I thought people would use my site properly. I am a little ticked off at the idea of my going to all this trouble of doing the sketches getting together the documentation and loading it up only for people to nick it without crediting me. We have all seen this happen. So there are two options that I am considering. 1. An actual reproduction of the motifs, flowers leaves etc that are found in the original patterns and on portraits. Each will be individually mounted so that they can be kept for reference. 2. Not sure about this one yet, a publication of original blackwork patterns from the 16th & early 17th centuries. This really depends upon the cost as to get original photographs I need to pay the V&A, this will probably mean getting a publisher interested. I don't really want to do a book of my sketched and pictures of my embroidery without the source and proper documentation. As I am going to make the reproductions for myself I should then be able to give a price, plus shipping. Let me know if you are still interested and when I have an idea of cost I will get back to you. Elizabeth elizabeth@witchwood.prestel.co.uk Roche Products Limited 40 Broadwater Road Welwyn Garden City Hertfordshire AL7 3AY Tel: 01707 366441 Registration Number 100674 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 06:02:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26009 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 06:02:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA06549; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 05:15:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14599 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 05:12:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.mindspring.com (smtp4.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14588 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 05:12:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-33qsd3t.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.52.125]) by smtp4.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA28850 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:12:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00e501bee8a1$69bb16c0$7d34aec7@oemcomputer> From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity patterns Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 06:12:35 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" -----Original Message----- From: Franchesca Havas To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Monday, August 16, 1999 18:24 Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity patterns > >-Poster: "Franchesca Havas" > >Not at the half price deal that most fabric places have them for. > >However if you have a Wal-mart they sell them, they may sell them online. >Most sewing stores may also have an online parent that may sell them online >for half off as well. > >Sincerely, >F. Havas >Dallas, Texas >motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide Just FYI... Walmart has a website now.... www.wal-mart.com but all I found on it was sewing machines and books... though under a search for "patterns" I found a book on Celtic Pattens for Painting and Crafts... but it doesn't look like they carry actual patterns online. Anya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 06:23:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26018 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 06:23:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07875; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 05:37:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA16184 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 05:34:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA16177 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 05:34:28 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6MEYa07454 (8038) for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:33:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:33:45 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: comercial patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 08/17/1999 12:48:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mandrake@mypad.com writes: << Pictures make things much more simple. >> Janet Arnold is full of pictures [or drawings....more accurate than drawings on commercial pattern envelopes!] that show exactly how things look[ed] when made up. And as far as figuring yardages...I always end up with about a yard & a half over when I use commercial estaminets [which is OK...but I can figure it that accurately myself.] The only advantage I can see from a commercial pattern is the instructions for exactly how to put it together. [That's not a small advantage!] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 10:12:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26203 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:12:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29901; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:26:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18881 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:23:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18873 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:23:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p41.directcon.net [206.170.184.90]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19901 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:23:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:23:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908171523.IAA19901@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: lrish liene Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > The closest thing I have seen documented was a Roman sleeve. It had a >circular piece that then ends of the bagged sleeve were pleated onto, except >for the top of the circle. (Open for your hand to come out, of course.) > I can't seem to visualize this at all. could you point me to a picture I could look at? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 10:23:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26216 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:22:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01300; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:36:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21206 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:33:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21183 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:33:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.205.203.140] (pool-207-205-203-140.kgpr.grid.net [207.205.203.140]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA25876 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:33:54 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: cahuff@pop.mindspring.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199908170338.VAA16725@net.indra.com> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:44:14 -0600 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: C Huff Subject: H-COST: Re: Those loverly old machines Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: C Huff Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 00:01:31 -0400 Subject: treadleon digest: August 16, 1999 To: "treadleon digest recipients" From: "Treadle On digest" Reply-To: "Treadle On" Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: To unsubscribe send email to leave-treadleon-163807E@lyris.quiltropolis.com or via the web at: http://www.quiltropolis.com/NewMailinglists.asp Treadleon is for those of us 'onions' that use the machines >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Singer Dating, International: Singer Dating, US: 1-800-4Singer Singer Dating, US: 1-800-877-7762 Singer Industrials Dating/Info., US: 1-800-342-6808 New Home Dating: 1-800-631-0183 White Dating: 1-800-446-2333 or 216-252-3300 Elna Dating/Info. on the web: -------------------------------------------------------------- ISMACS International: -------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, forward this message to leave-ismacs-15098H@lyris.quiltropolis.com ISMACS is for those that collect and sometimes use the machines. The ISMACS site also has links to many other sites for more info. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I *think* someone just recently had some questions about a 2 spool machine, so you may be in luck. The folks are very very helpful. And hey, try sewing on a treadle or handcrank, its fun and when the power goes out, you're still cranking Ta Carol Forward into the past or something like that. Got an old machine looking for a good home?? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 11:42:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26281 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:42:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11431; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:54:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09113 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:51:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09079 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29963 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:52:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B99374.C566252C@serv.net> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:53:09 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: bezants? References: <199908140348.VAA15912@net.indra.com> <37B6FE86.7811@enteract.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > Merouda, pray tell, how are you planning to stamp those out? > > YIS and desparation for a decent stamping-out technique, > Sister Ed Well, this is a good question. I know nothing about working with metal. I have a friend here who is a metal worker and she also makes exquisite jewelry. She also has an interest in bezants. She said our two options are to cut them out with shears or stamp them out. After making a stamp with the design we want, we will stamp the sheet metal and then cut them out by hand. Or, cut/stamp the discs and then stamp the design on them. I am hoping to do the latter as the other sounds as though I will butcher my hands.... Hopefully we will do this sometime in September or October (I need them by December). When we have done the job, I will post to the list with my new found knowlege. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 11:42:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26285 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 11:42:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11689; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:56:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09545 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:53:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1202.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.138]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA09536 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:53:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990817165219.24407.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.183.151.69] by web1202.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:52:19 PDT Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:52:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Davidson Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan Hats To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Davidson Hello! I am in search of on-line pictures of Elizabethan riding hats. I need creative fuel for my brain. Thanks for all your help! Lady Zy LadyZy@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 13:22:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26433 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:22:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26648; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 12:34:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01967 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 12:31:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alchemyweb.greateralchemy.net ([209.186.228.137]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA01933 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 12:31:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ELEMENTAL (unverified [209.30.238.19]) by alchemyweb.greateralchemy.net (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:39:54 -0500 Received: by ELEMENTAL with Microsoft Mail id <01BEE8B3.09BE2980@ELEMENTAL>; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:18:47 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEE8B3.09BE2980@ELEMENTAL> From: Carrie Veenstra To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Elizabethan Blackwork Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:14:17 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BEE8B3.09C75140" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carrie Veenstra ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEE8B3.09C75140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1. An actual reproduction of the motifs, flowers leaves etc that are = found in the original patterns and on portraits. Each will be individually mounted so that they can be kept for reference. this part sounds wonderful, but probably too expensive for me to think = about... 2. Not sure about this one yet, a publication of original blackwork = patterns from the 16th & early 17th centuries. This really depends upon the cost = as to get original photographs I need to pay the V&A, this will probably = mean getting a publisher interested. I don't really want to do a book of my sketched and pictures of my embroidery without the source and proper documentation. which is why this way sounds perfect AND wonderful. More work for you = (although stitching all those sample cards is a lot of work on it's = own!) , but you would have the book credit to your name, and the = material would be MUCH more widely accessable and enduring in book = form.. of course, publishing a book wouldn't necessarily keep you from = distrubuting the worked-up sets seperately if you still saw a need or = want for such. I would suggest taking the publishing idea to the museum first, they = might be helpful in finding a publisher. If they are cooperative but = not helpful (ie: allowing you to pay & use photos, but not interested = in helping you find a publisher or working with you further on the = project), Grab a copy of the current Writer's Guide for specialized = publishing house names -- I'd probably start with Lark Books and = Interweave Press and work through the smaller and/or less specialized = companies afterward. Carrie Veenstra ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEE8B3.09C75140 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ii8SAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAoAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGgtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRy YS5jb20AU01UUABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAUAAAAaC1jb3N0dW1lQGluZHJhLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAWAAAA J2gtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRyYS5jb20nAAAAAgELMAEAAAAZAAAAU01UUDpILUNPU1RVTUVASU5EUkEu Q09NAAAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABQAAABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAIB 918BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGgtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRyYS5jb20AU01U UABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAAAAAMA/V8BAAAAAwD/XwAAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAC 2VQBBIABACYAAABSRTogSC1DT1NUOiBSZTogRWxpemFiZXRoYW4gQmxhY2t3b3JrADEMAQWAAwAO AAAAzwcIABEADQAOABEAAgAdAQEggAMADgAAAM8HCAARAAwAOQACAAIAOAEBCYABACEAAAAxNzdF QzlFMkExNTREMzExOEMxQTAwQTAyNDkwMUFGNAAEBwEDkAYAeAgAACEAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAA AAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAAJGrUdzovgEeAHAAAQAAACYA AABSRTogSC1DT1NUOiBSZTogRWxpemFiZXRoYW4gQmxhY2t3b3JrAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb7o 3FGj4sl+GFShEdOMGgCgJJAa9AAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABoAAABjYXJy aWVAZ3JlYXRlcmFsY2hlbXkubmV0AAAAAwAGEH1uugkDAAcQEQUAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAADFBTkFD VFVBTFJFUFJPRFVDVElPTk9GVEhFTU9USUZTLEZMT1dFUlNMRUFWRVNFVENUSEFUQVJFRk9VTkRJ TlRIRU9SSUdJTkFMUEFUVEVSTlNBTkRPTlBPUlRSQUlUU0VBQ0gAAAAAAgEJEAEAAABGBQAAQgUA ALYHAABMWkZ1ovBV8AMACgByY3BnMTI1FjIA+Atgbg4QMDMznQH3IAKkA+MCAGNoCsBgc2V0MCAH EwKAfbMKgAjIIDsJbw4wNQKAWQqBdWMAUAsDYwBBdfRsbgIgZQunCrEKhAsw8GxpMzYBQBUAFhED YMp0BZB0FiQxLhFwA6BpANB0dQdAIAlwF4FkCRRwdGkCICBvZiBwdGhlIARgGaAD0CwyIA7wb3cE kAQgbGWsYXYHkRFAYxoRYQVA5wrAGkACEHVuCzEWQguA8xoTBbBpZwuAGPEKsAJAtwSRBCAAcGQZ 4AOgcAkRknILcHRzGGAgRQDQ1GggA/BsAyBiGkALgDBkaXZpGXAHQGx5nxYkBGAcwBewHwBzbxwE sRoheSBjA5EgsWsZMG8FQAIQBcAJcGYEkAnwY/xlLhYoCoEVAgwyF4URYH8aIAQAHkEAICJxHMEE IHebAiAEgWYVQBrAYnUFQF0XgWIBoCGAGhBvIpBl/HhwCfAAkBuQJAMHgClRuSbCbmsYoAbgKKAu K5BvJPslDAoRAUBpF2cf8DL9GGBOF6AicAhwGkArQybEWRVxIHkRQBrAYR5AdX8CYA3gHDAZtR3H AmAA0Gt9J+ByKyAeVhYkA1IaEzFyNhogICYbwArAKTExvjc0USTAAjAIch/SVCbiuwlwIWIgAQAp wSexdR9Qux1kBaBzHEEzNSqxZxFA1R25aBegbwnAYTmwBCD8SSAVgCJRKrEKsClBGjH4ViZBGsAm 0yBjKNcHgL8AcBYkOOEZoA8gMHZzGjB/BcALgB6BB5AiQR/hOnBk7QIgJwVANmV3AHAi4SKQtz/g MHEG4G8rIBnxbSGVvnMjwBvgGjAfAB7icA3g/zWBB5FB0xvABtADYCEwBJC/QJEfsDnAL3MaQCdx ciTAN0MEA2ApwHIWJD/gY3XfB4ACMDEDJO8l/Hcm4CAx/TwCaDsyPAI7ISd1RpEkcLEuQUFORCfY H+FNBbCXGkAycyQSeQhgICgHQP1FEmcgQDgAH7AQ8D3zIIHnRRERMCJwYW0LUDfBCxH/BCAm8TCA CQA5ARoAMnMZwQUfsCcv0XduISkg/yh0ThIn4BVAHwARACoRGiL/QYMFAAmAH7Aqok4RBcAeEP8H gDBhHvEaIxwwBnEY8VOU4SCxTVVDSBpRTVJEkf8pMQDQJMAEECkRRgQ3AQhx7z4BHVFBgyQRbSuQ GeIFoP8IcBEwGsA+VT30QYNTk0AC/xWAWPMFECkxI8AZME4DM6P7IQA4AHIwsCigPfIaIjJy/QmA LTdQInARQAQgETBGkf9WsSkxBpBOA07xIIFQMAfg/zCAOpMFsUCzJBIu8BDwR/t3OnBTlC7wZzjg OAEBkGu/X9Zb+USRMIAqsxpBdREwu0dQGtBpESAwUSL0bR3gzmgFQCCxGjBscChBWkL/aNAg8T4M P5IaA1ixHHEFoH9GgjEBKhEokhVgBUBqNij9CJA6H/AhYRsAPfJOEjrl/zSAaHE5pBqxbcY++FpC ajL/b3Zq4j4rY3IygT3yRPJepF8IcBohdFEdZBeBahfBKbUawEcfkGIwcQWgcCMw2xn1R0ByJJEF QFcFEB6BuVJhR3VEkWPkKcBjBzH8aXoiUVv5RSFQAVXCBCD0LS0/oSdGQykEOAAnMm11I0wKwCsg QkGRHsRJ9z8CGxBUAlA/MR7EMnMaIH8DYE6yRXMAwCCAPsEe4S//BbEbYAQReioFoFBQAHA1sd8Y oAGAfzELEUf7QwrACIH3O4AJ4V9hYS1PLlEf8BYkBRHxAIhQAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAAwCA EP////9AAAcwYCAd6dnovgFAAAgwYCAd6dnovgELAACACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAA AAAAAAMABIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAC3DQAAHgAFgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYA AAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOC4wAAMABoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAGFAAAAAAAACwAPgAgg BgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADABCACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAA AAMAEYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAUgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA GIUAAAAAAAAeACSACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgAlgAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AJoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADiF AAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABSRTogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAAjTA= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEE8B3.09C75140-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 14:01:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26495 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:01:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02824; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:14:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10060 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:11:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10048 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:11:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA02896 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 12:12:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B9B44B.CA2857F1@serv.net> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 12:13:16 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: H-COST: La Mode Buttons? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover Doesn't La Mode Buttons have a website? I can't for the life of me find it but I thought someone posted it to this list. There is a specific model that I want to know if it's still available... Thanks! Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 14:37:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26586 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:37:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08234; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:51:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18204 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:48:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18187 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:48:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.3.23.212]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990817194818.SAUH9770.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@home.com> for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 12:48:18 -0700 Message-ID: <37B9BC83.CB3FD1F4@home.com> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:48:19 -0400 From: Liz /cozit Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: treadle machine parts References: <199908171534.JAA21239@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Liz /cozit I missed the original post, somehow. But if the part is similar to what Singer uses, you may be able to get it from them. Singer apparently still makes treadle (and hand-crank) machines. Mostly for the overseas markets. Not real cheap, but if you don't have electricity, or want it for the "look" and/or fun of it, they're there. I *think* the website I *used* to have for them was one of the regular Singer websites, but I don't remember for certain. If not, customer service can probably help you out. -Elisabeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 14:41:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26602 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:41:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08897; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:55:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19147 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:52:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19134 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:52:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.161.142]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA00083 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:52:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37B9BDFC.A69515B2@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:54:36 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: La Mode Buttons? References: <37B9B44B.CA2857F1@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas La Mode is carried by Blumenthal Lansing Co. Customer Service at 1-800-291-1559 could help you. They do Retail and Wholesale. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 14:42:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26612 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:42:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09063; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:55:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19292 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:53:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19284 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:53:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.3.23.212]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990817195325.SCAK9770.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@home.com> for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 12:53:25 -0700 Message-ID: <37B9BDB6.5A63E219@home.com> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:53:26 -0400 From: Liz /cozit Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Simplicity (etc.) patterns References: <199908171534.JAA21239@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Liz /cozit The patterns actually *do* cost the stores more than the $.99 they sell them for. But they're a "Loss item"...get people into the store for something they'll lose a bit of money on...but then make it up in the fabric they'll need to buy for it, the notions...and anything else that we just can't resist in the stores. Common sales practice, and legal as long as they have reasonable stock on hand (note, I just added this because there *are* some businesses that advertise such sales then don't have much at all available or for raincheck, though they have a similar item at a higher cost available. *that* is known as "bait-and-switch" and is illegal in most states). Knew that *some* of what I had to learn in those 2 business management classes would stick... -Elisabeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 14:58:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26629 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:58:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12209; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:12:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22690 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:09:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA22682 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:09:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990817201231.24404.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:12:31 PDT Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:12:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Simplicity (etc.) patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I must say you hit this one right on the head... example::: ME! I went last night to Jo-Ann's to find the new Simplicity patterns... and I bought them... along with $75 worth of fabric and several other items... ouch! It works, though... I only went there for the patterns because they were on sale. Sarah > them for. But they're a "Loss item"...get people > into the store for > something they'll lose a bit of money on...but then > make it up in the > fabric they'll need to buy for it, the notions...and _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 15:19:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26645 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:19:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15447; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:32:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27292 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:30:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27286 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:30:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04509 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B9C6BC.63934D65@serv.net> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 13:31:57 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Do you have any La Mode Buttons References: <37B9B44B.CA2857F1@serv.net> <37B9BDFC.A69515B2@mediaone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover Thanks. I called. They no longer make my button. I could just cry... What a mistake. These are the closest I have found to a reasonable facsimile for actual 14th century buttons for cotehardies... They could sell tons! dratdarndagnabit #2625 3/8" gold knobs. If anyone has any buttons laying around... > La Mode is carried by Blumenthal Lansing Co. Customer Service at > 1-800-291-1559 could help you. They do Retail and Wholesale. -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 16:03:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26683 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:03:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22829; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:17:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA07491 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:14:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web128.yahoomail.com (web128.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.197]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA07482 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:14:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990817211446.6551.rocketmail@web128.yahoomail.com> Received: from [153.35.255.226] by web128.yahoomail.com; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:14:46 PDT Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 14:14:46 -0700 (PDT) From: "Kristen M. Sieber" Subject: H-COST: Scarlet Pimpernal "spectacle"? To: Costume Historic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kristen M. Sieber" Forgive my fumbling description, but I am looking for pictures and history of the "single-eyeglass-on-a-stick" thing that the Scarlet Pimpernal carried in the various movies. I.e. what is it called? What is the correct period? Who can make one? etc. Thanks. Kristen Morgaine Sieber lady_gawain@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 16:09:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26687 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:09:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23735; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:23:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA08972 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:20:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08964 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 15:20:48 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6EFDa09417 (4252) for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:19:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8f222664.24eb2be8@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:19:36 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Scarlet Pimpernal "spectacle"? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 8/17/1999 2:15:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lady_gawain@yahoo.com writes: << "single-eyeglass-on-a-stick" thing that the Scarlet Pimpernal carried in the various movies. I.e. what is it called? What is the correct period? Who can make one? etc. Thanks. >> eyeglasses on a stick, or handle, are usually referred to as "lorgnettes" (lorn-YETT) I think they are usually two when on the handle, and the single eyepiece is called a "monacle" Most costuming sources will carry an inexpensive version of both. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." W. Shakespeare _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 17:29:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26859 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:29:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04925; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25586 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:40:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25574 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:40:16 -0600 (MDT) From: BarbMVD@aol.com Received: from BarbMVD@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ZRa028691 (4050) for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7319d03f.24eb3e9c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:39:24 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Scarlet Pimpernal "spectacle"? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: BarbMVD@aol.com << "single-eyeglass-on-a-stick" >> Ever heard the term "quizzing glass"? It is generally worn suspended on a cord around the neck. Common in the last quarter of the 18c. Barbara Delorey A new list 18cWoman !!! A place to discuss everything about women in the 18th century, clothing, manners, mores, status, condition, and more. Stories of actual women, excerpts from letters & diaries, sources for study. Emphasis on regional differences, and the abilities displayed in home and the running of businesses. An exploration of how events affected their lives. To subscribe to the 18cWoman list, go to : http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/18cWoman _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 18:05:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26940 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:05:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09989; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:19:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02944 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:16:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02925 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:16:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p34.directcon.net [206.170.184.83]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA15334 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:16:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:16:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908172316.QAA15334@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Scarlet Pimpernal "spectacle"? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >eyeglasses on a stick, or handle, are usually referred to as "lorgnettes" >(lorn-YETT) I think they are usually two when on the handle, and the single >eyepiece is called a "monacle" Most costuming sources will carry an >inexpensive version of both. > I thought a monacle was the lens worn in the eye socket, with a cord attached worn around the neck in case of falling? >From my limited reading of Regency novels, I seem to remember a thing called a "quizzing glass". Is this the one on a handle? Or is any single lens a monacle? Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 18:10:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26946 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:10:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10581; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:24:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03742 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:21:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03732 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:21:20 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ONKa09412 (4116) for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:20:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7040bd2f.24eb483b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:20:27 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Scarlet Pimpernal "spectacle"? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 8/17/1999 4:17:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << I thought a monacle was the lens worn in the eye socket, with a cord attached worn around the neck in case of falling? From my limited reading of Regency novels, I seem to remember a thing called a "quizzing glass". Is this the one on a handle? Or is any single lens a monacle? >> You're correct. I wasn't clear enough, I guess, but that's what I was trying to convey. From my understanding, there is no "single" glass on a stick, only two. The single eyepiece is usually on a cord. I think a lorgnett and a quizzing glass may be the same thing. But I'm no expert on antique eyewear. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "The truth of it is, I have no shirt." W. Shakespeare _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 18:18:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26950 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:18:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11834; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:32:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05498 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:29:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05487 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:29:54 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6BTMa09412 (4155) for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:28:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <15fb20c6.24eb4a38@aol.com> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:28:56 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Simplicity (etc.) patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com I have to make a 19th century lower class "slave dress" for a [lovely, wonderful] actress who is a size 20. I got a commercial pattern the appropriate size so I would have the generally correct shoulder slope & neck curve and etc, etc. As I sat there adjusting it with a double darted front & lowered armseye I thought about the Simplicity Elizabethan pattern & SCA. It seems like a good thing for beginners to have a pattern with the familiarities Simplicity can offer. Why not create a set of instructions for altering that pattern to a more correct cut for new [or old] SCA members who want to be more accurate? These would be very specific....for a single pattern Like.."The Official SCA Period Enhancement Instructions for Simplicity Pattern # XXX" and another for "Period Enhancement Instructions for Butterick Pattern # YYY". These could include a model in the unaltered gown & also the altered version with silhouette differences indicated. Perhaps a sheet on how to turn Simplicity pattern # XXX into a corset. By being exclusive to one pattern you can site pattern piece numbers or specific measurments....all manner of helpful reference points in the commercial pattern. I can't see why commercial pattern companies could object....as you have to by the pattern 1st. I also realize it would be a bit of work....and you'll notice I didn't volunteer. Just a thought. Has this been tried before? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 18:21:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26956 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:21:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12257; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:35:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06079 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:33:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA06064 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:33:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 17213 invoked from network); 17 Aug 1999 23:32:07 -0000 Received: from 207-229-149-74.d.enteract.com (HELO lynnx.enteract.com) (207.229.149.74) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 17 Aug 1999 23:32:07 -0000 Message-ID: <37BA147C.25F4@enteract.com> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:03:40 -0700 From: lynnx X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: die-ing to know this! References: <199908172321.RAA03770@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lynnx (merouda wrote) > After making a stamp > with the design we want, we will stamp the sheet metal and then cut them > out by hand. Or, cut/stamp the discs and then stamp the design on them. > When we have done the job, I will post to the list with my new found knowlege. I'm too impatient! ;-) Can your friend tell you how to make the stamps (dies?) for cutting the metal? (Maybe she could email me offlist or you could) YIS Sister Ed _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 18:24:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26960 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:24:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12731; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:39:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06744 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:36:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1106.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.126]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA06738 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:36:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990817233354.15476.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [38.226.171.42] by web1106.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:33:54 PDT Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:33:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Simplicity (etc.) patterns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carol Mitchell I have a recommendation. The Greater Bay Area chapter of the Costumer's Guild has dealt with this problem for some time. They have reviews of patterns with their comments about their authenticity and how useful they are, done by people who know what they're doing and have had a lot of experience in drafting of patterns as well as costumemaking. Their url is http://www.toreadors.com/costume/patterns/index.html I would strongly recommend checking it out. BTW, this is a fellow guild chapter, but we have no claim to their work. Carol
Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at Yahoo! Mail.
_________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 18:29:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26967 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:29:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13465; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:43:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA07581 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:41:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07569 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:41:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA08648 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37B9F38F.CA3C59B4@serv.net> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 16:43:12 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: die-ing to know this! References: <199908172321.RAA03770@net.indra.com> <37BA147C.25F4@enteract.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > > After making a stamp > > with the design we want, we will stamp the sheet metal and then cut them > > out by hand. Or, cut/stamp the discs and then stamp the design on them. > > > When we have done the job, I will post to the list with my new found knowlege. > > I'm too impatient! ;-) Can your friend tell you how to make the stamps > (dies?) for cutting the metal? (Maybe she could email me offlist or you > could) Sorry. :) She's at Pennsic. :) Just to clarify, we aren't making the dies for cutting the metal. These should be available through a place that makes metal working supplies, like a jewelry tool supply place. We are making the design for the brass stamp that will imprint the design onto the little disk. It's possible that one could also purchase design stamps from a jewelry supply house. This Lady is a Laurel in our Society (SCA) with a modern degree in metalsmithing and I don't get to do it the easy way. You'll have to wait right along with me. ;-> Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 18:59:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27043 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:59:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16953; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:13:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA12252 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:10:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA12239 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:10:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 6124 invoked from network); 18 Aug 1999 00:03:28 -0000 Received: from 29.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO ?207.183.240.29?) (207.183.240.29) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 18 Aug 1999 00:03:28 -0000 X-Sender: karolee@keith.lloyd.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 17:10:41 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: karolee@fenris.net (Karolee Smiley) Subject: Re: H-COST: comercial patterns Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: karolee@fenris.net (Karolee Smiley) >-Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > >In a message dated 08/17/1999 12:48:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >mandrake@mypad.com writes: > ><< Pictures make things much more simple. > >> > >Janet Arnold is full of pictures [or drawings....more accurate than drawings >on commercial pattern envelopes!] that show exactly how things look[ed] when >made up. And as far as figuring yardages...I always end up with about a yard >& a half over when I use commercial estaminets [which is OK...but I can >figure it that accurately myself.] The only advantage I can see from a >commercial pattern is the instructions for exactly how to put it together. >[That's not a small advantage!] It's a huge advantage for people who are inexperienced. Plus, everything is the right size (more or less). Some people have little spacial intelligence and find that scale drawings are completely incomprehensible. Those people need the patterns premarked, a drawing on how to lay them on the fabric, and how to assemble it. Remember, not everyone has the same skills. I have friends who could sculpt a statue or draw or the outfit, but couldn't even begin to sew it. Most people on this list probably have plenty of experience and have a natural (or learned) spacial sense. Let's face it, these patterns are not designed for experienced costumers. They are primarilly for the public at large. I'm excited to see these costumes being made more accesible to non-sewers/beginning sewers. This will help new people get involved. Personally, I have no spacial sense. I have to adapt just about everything from something else. If I did not have a friend give my a basic elizabethan pattern to start from, I'd still be making cotehardies from the Simplicity majorette pattern. (That was the best anyone could offer on commercial patterns back then). I wish they had these when I first started! Karolee J Smiley Kaitlin MacPherson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 20:07:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27105 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:07:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25464; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:21:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA21447 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:18:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21441 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 19:18:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p37.directcon.net [206.170.184.86]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00258 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 18:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908180118.SAA00258@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Simplicity (etc.) patterns Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >It seems like a good thing for beginners to have a pattern with the >familiarities Simplicity can offer. Why not create a set of instructions for >altering that pattern to a more correct cut for new [or old] SCA members who >want to be more accurate? These would be very specific....for a single >pattern Like.."The Official SCA Period Enhancement Instructions for >Simplicity Pattern # XXX" and another for "Period Enhancement Instructions >for Butterick Pattern # YYY". This is exactly what I'm planning to do! Although I wasn't going to try to label it "The Official SCA Version", if you know that organization you know that that is unlikely in the extreme. I plan to do this on my Web site, with suggested changes for the Simplicity "wench" pattern, the new Elizabethan, and any others I have time and the inclination for. I'm not sure when I'll get to it, as I'm finding that Web design, like costuming, always takes much more time than planned. But it's the only thing I've ever found that's as much fun as costuming...well, that I can do with the kids watching, that is. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 17 22:34:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27281 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:34:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10105; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 21:48:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA10626 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 21:45:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10618 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 21:45:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.241 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 20:44:56 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re:Irish leine..bag sleeves? Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:48:42 -0400 Message-ID: <000801bee92d$4206e1e0$f10bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <37B8E7C3.1DC48C9A@home.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I can't cite Web sources for these particular pictures. I have looked, but can't find the ones I saw with bag sleeves from those books. All three books taken together show a pretty complete picture of the evolution of the garment from Roman times forward--it is hypothesized by these authors/researchers to have resembled Roman attire during those days of the Roman occupation, and it goes through many iterations over the centuries, ending up as this shirt with the bag sleeves in the 16th century. I suspect that only the more Anglified Irish wore leines with bag sleeves, and that earlier versions of the leine coexisted in the same century among the wild Irish. Henry McClintock and Mairead Dunlevy are probably an ILL request for most of us--they were for me--but they are treasures. Dunbar adds little in the text, but includes some other period pictures to help round out the information. I probably wrote part of the long interchange of messages on the subject Margo has offered to share with you. I no longer have them, but I wrote them with all three reference books in my lap and checked each detail with the books before posting them. They will be more accurate than anything further I can cull from memory. There just aren't that many surviving period pictures, so once you have the three reference books in front of you, you should have no problem finding the evidence in them yourself. I may have actually cited page reference numbers to Margo at the time. I should have also cited the Pakenham's widely available gem of a paperback, containing transcriptions of actual primary sources, Irish writings and pictures over 800 years. Dunlevy, Mairead. Dress in Ireland, New York: Holmes & Meier, 1989. ISBN 0-8419-1269-6. (Irish Collection, Logue Library, Chestnut Hill College, Philadelphia 19118) McClintock, H. F. Old Irish & Highland Dress, With Notes on the Isle of Man, 1949(?) and 1950, my reference is incomplete here, was it Dundalgen Press, just outside of Dublin?. Pakenham, Thomas and Valerie. Dublin, A Traveller's Companion, Great Britian: Constable and Company, and New York: Atheneum, Macmillan Publishing Company, 1988. ISBN 0-689-70741-X Memorial Library of Radnor 914.18 PAKENHAM. Don't miss this very fun and wonderful period source. Dunbar, again sorry, I am missing this citation. Surveying the growing on-line collections of British libraries and museums in so intriguing. Some WebPages of interest, but not directly applicable to the above topic: The British Library's CD ROM of incunabula, printed images from 1400-1500 http://www.bl.uk/collections/epc/hoinc.html#IISTC . Clipping off the end of this URL and travelling around the Website will yeild images of the first dated printed book 8th Century Chinese text and accompanying image, various Psalters, and the immense quantities of simialr materials noted held at the library makes the heart ache .... Oxford University started their digitizing project with their Celtic manuscripts here: http://image.ox.ac.uk/. Beautiful!!! 8th Century Book of Kells: http://www.tcd.ie/kells1.gif, http://www.tcd.ie/kells2.gif, http://www.tcd.ie/kells3.gif Note mantle, robe, neckline, and shoes on #1. If the embroidered multicolored garments of the Irish looked anything like the designs on #2, then WOW, and #3 well, just more incredible dedign inspiration. http://www.ucc.ie/celt/list.html has Celtic texts on line. *Annals of the Four Masters* gives a history of the Irish race from almost the begining of the world, noting precise dates for the first use of purple and blue dyes, wearing of certain colors by people in different classes, wearing multicolored costumes, wearing gold chains around the neck, all before Christ, then wearing transparent colored gems, etc, all 4,000 + pages, author unknown. Not sure what this is, but it's superb folklore in any event. Straying very far off out original subject here. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Liz /cozit > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 12:41 AM > To: h-costume-digest@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Re:Irish leine..bag sleeves? > > > > -Poster: Liz /cozit > > > > > > > > - -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > > > Drawings and watercolors of the 16th Century show the leine > > with true bag sleeves--very much period. The drawstring > > sleeve is something else, not to be confused with the > > traditional bag sleeve. The drawstring sleeve may be just > > modern "American Celtic." If you look at the few available > > drawings, sculptures, and paintings of leines through about > > 8 centuries, you will see that the leine changed shape. The > > bag sleeve of the 16th Century shows the influence of > > fashions elsewhere at the time. H. L. McClintock and Dunbar > > and Dunlevy contain reproductions of the primary source > > material, but I don't have them now, so can't specify page > > numbers. > > Have you come across any of these pictures on the web? I'm truly > interested, but so far I haven't found any pictures that > don't look like > they could be just *very* full sleeves,rectangular, gathered > normally at > top and bottom. > > > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > > >By the way, for the "bag sleeve," I believe it was cartridge > >pleated or otherwise gathered into the shoulder, with a slit > >in the front of the sleeve at the inside of the elbow for > >the arm to come out. The rest of the sleeve hung down > >behind the forearm and could be used as a pocket. > > > The other question...is you mention finding a picture that shows the > forearm portion of the sleeve hanging down. Do you remember what that > picture was (or where about you saw it)? Are you sure it was > the leine > and not the oversleeve (I've seen a couple of pictures where the leine > was pushed up and the sleeve of the overgarment was hanging, at least > partially. > > > Honestly, I'm not doubting that you've seen these, but I haven't come > across them yet, and I'm interested in seeing as many > relative pictures > as I can before scissors meet the fabric. Having formed a > few opinions > about the supposedly authentic patterns out there (and Margo's story > about how they came about sounds believable), I'm trying to > check out as > many pictures as I can to form my own opinion of how I want to make my > leine....and I've got to get that done before I can fit the bodice of > the dress.... > > > Thanks for the info! > -Elisabeth > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 00:04:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27350 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:03:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17122; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:17:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA21119 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:14:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21113 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:14:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA28475 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-184.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.184]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA08477 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003601bee939$1a5469e0$12d2fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: lrish liene Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:18:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" -----Original Message----- From: Margo Anderson To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 8:25 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: lrish liene > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > > >> The closest thing I have seen documented was a Roman sleeve. It had a >>circular piece that the ends of the bagged sleeve were pleated onto, except >>for the top of the circle. (Open for your hand to come out, of course.) >> >I can't seem to visualize this at all. could you point me to a picture I >could look at? > >Margo > I had a hard time explaining this and though that that might happen... I check out books from my college library and photocopy pictures that I think might be of interest. This particular one was rom a book called 'Period Costume for the Stage and Screen.' The top of the page reads, 'Pattern Sheet No. 31 Sleeve 2--"The Adoration of the Magi" If you have the book, by some slim chance, it is on page 163. Unfortunately, I never wrote down a publisher, author or date. It is a huge, wide sleeve and where it hangs, under your elbow, it is pleated onto a decorative circular trim. It actually somewhat looks like something they would have used on a foreign planet in the show 'Star Trek.' ;) Ah Ha! In that caption it is quoted as seen in the painting of 'the Adoration of the Magi' by Domenico Veneziano. It then goes on to briefly descibe a velvet doublet, etc. All very grand... Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 00:16:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27371 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:16:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18524; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:30:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA22896 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:27:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22885 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:27:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA04287 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:27:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-184.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.184]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA16591 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:27:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005101bee93a$ffb54f80$12d2fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Simplicity (etc.) patterns Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:32:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >-Poster: Liz /cozit > >The patterns actually *do* cost the stores more than the $.99 they sell >them for. But they're a "Loss item"...get people into the store for >something they'll lose a bit of money on...but then make it up in the >fabric they'll need to buy for it, the notions...and anything else that >we just can't resist in the stores. Absolutely! However, if the markup is the average/standard of 50%, that means that they possibly are only losing about $5.00 a pattern. Considering that Period Patterns retail at about $25.00, these patterns are very cheap. That is what I meant. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 00:29:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27377 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:29:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19950; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:43:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA24352 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:40:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from latte.2xtreme.net (latte.2xtreme.net [209.63.222.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA24344 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:40:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 14925 invoked from network); 18 Aug 1999 05:44:34 -0000 Received: from p136.sac2.2xtreme.net (HELO 2xtreme.net) (209.63.217.136) by latte.2xtreme.net with SMTP; 18 Aug 1999 05:44:34 -0000 Message-ID: <37B99DEE.100DCEAE@2xtreme.net> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:37:51 -0700 From: Stephen Bergdahl X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Sewing Machine Care and Feeding References: <199908140348.VAA15912@net.indra.com> <37B6FE86.7811@enteract.com> <37B99374.C566252C@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Stephen Bergdahl -Poster: AnnoraK@aol.com Hi! Sorta off-topic question here, but with the wide array of experience and connections that are on the list, it seemed a good place to ask. I've recently acquired a "National Two Spool" treadle sewing machine. I didn't intend it to be my full-time, regular use machine, but just rather a toy or for while watching TV. I didn't really check it out all that much before I brought it home (hey, it was free) and so now have a problem. It's missing its throat plate and I don't know if or where I could find a replacement. My local repair shop has no clue, either. The mechanics turn smoothly now that they've been WD-40'd and I've found drive belts at Newark Dressmaking Supply, making the throat plate my only obstacle to a functioning treadle machine. Any suggestions? Thanks! Jen Dear Jen Please do not use WD-40 on the lovely machine. WD-40 is a short-term lubricant designed to coat metal. It works just fine in areas where there is no friction like a hinge. When it's heated, like from the friction of a sewing machine, it can change to something like a varnish, and can damage the metal of your machine. For a sewing machine you have to use Mineral Oil. Not "Three-in-one" oil or anything else that comes in a spray can just plain Mineral Oil, which you can buy at any Industrial Sewing Machine shop. Anything else and you are asking for trouble. Also when cleaning your machine do not blow into it using your mouth, this is the same as spitting into it. Use a vacuum cleaner or a hair dryer set on low. Closing the Big Book and getting out of the pulpit. Yours Stephen Bergdahl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 00:31:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27383 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:31:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20304; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:45:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA24657 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:43:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from latte.2xtreme.net (latte.2xtreme.net [209.63.222.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA24646 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:43:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 15350 invoked from network); 18 Aug 1999 05:47:17 -0000 Received: from p136.sac2.2xtreme.net (HELO 2xtreme.net) (209.63.217.136) by latte.2xtreme.net with SMTP; 18 Aug 1999 05:47:17 -0000 Message-ID: <37B99E93.316F6543@2xtreme.net> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:40:36 -0700 From: Stephen Bergdahl X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: GSACG Web Page References: <199908140348.VAA15912@net.indra.com> <37B6FE86.7811@enteract.com> <37B99374.C566252C@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Stephen Bergdahl > To all the Members of the list - Hello! > > I am very happy and proud to announce the launch of the Greater Sacramento > Area Costumers' Guild's web page. Better known as "The Fashioners of Fancy", > we are a branch of the International Costumers' Guild. We cover most any > part of Californian north of the Bay Area (I think, if I am stepping on > someone's toes please let me know). http://www.2xtreme.net/madly/GSACG/GSACG_index.htm > > Please check out our site, it is still a work in progress, but what web site > is ever finished. I hope you enjoy the site, and I look forward to hearing > your comments. > > Yours truly, > > Stephen Bergdahl Vice President and Web Master > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 00:33:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27387 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:33:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20548; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:47:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA24828 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:44:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from latte.2xtreme.net (latte.2xtreme.net [209.63.222.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA24823 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:44:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 15602 invoked from network); 18 Aug 1999 05:49:00 -0000 Received: from p136.sac2.2xtreme.net (HELO 2xtreme.net) (209.63.217.136) by latte.2xtreme.net with SMTP; 18 Aug 1999 05:49:00 -0000 Message-ID: <37B99EFB.EDBD2FE8@2xtreme.net> Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 10:42:20 -0700 From: Stephen Bergdahl X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Civil War Dress References: <199908140348.VAA15912@net.indra.com> <37B6FE86.7811@enteract.com> <37B99374.C566252C@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Stephen Bergdahl > To all the list members Hello, I need some help. I have been asked to design and make an 1850 to 1860 maternity dress for a Civil War friend of mine. The women who will be wearing it plays a soldier's wife visiting her husband between battles. Her husband was a shopkeeper before the war. So she tends to wear dress that are a little more upper class. Better than a Farm Wife's but not what one would call upper class. Squarely middle class for the period. While I am familiar with the "Wrapper" style, two long panels gathered to the shoulder seams to form the front of the bodice and skirt. She would like something that has more of a two piece look with a pointed front that still lets out as she expands. While the design and construction are no problem, the documentation is giving me fits. If this was for a play or just a Halloween costume I would have no problem. But I don't want to turn this dress loose on the world without documentation. There are enough strange things running around various Living History Sites whose documentation is limited to, "oh I read about is somewhere." What little I can find about maternity clothes is limited to the "Workerswomen Guide" and some plates in a few Godies which describe the wrapper style. Now if the Wrapper style was the only style worn, then I will tell her it's that or she can find someone else to make it for her. But I just don't see there being just one style. Now I know that having a baby was not something you talked about at that time, but there must be more written about it than this. Any help would be greatly appreciated, or just some new ideas as to were to look. Your Stephen Bergdahl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 00:46:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27394 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:46:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22374; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:00:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA26117 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:58:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA26107 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:58:08 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:58:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 19620 invoked from network); 18 Aug 1999 05:50:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.70.110) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 18 Aug 1999 05:50:38 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990817225922.3ad79afc@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: lrish liene Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 10:18 PM 8/17/99 -0700, Michelle wrote: [snip] >I had a hard time explaining this and though that that might happen... > I check out books from my college library and photocopy pictures that I >think might be of interest. This particular one was rom a book called >'Period Costume for the Stage and Screen.' The top of the page reads, >'Pattern Sheet No. 31 Sleeve 2--"The Adoration of the Magi" If you have >the book, by some slim chance, it is on page 163. Unfortunately, I never >wrote down a publisher, author or date. I thing that you are referring to Jean Hunnisett's book on Medieval women's clothing (I have two of her books covering 1500-1800 and 1800-1909). My books are published by Players Press, Inc., P.O. Box 1132, Studio City, CA 91614-0132 (re-published in 1991). I know that the medieval book is around because it was sent to me by mistake when I ordered the two I now have. Warning, though very useful, they are pricey, about $50 each, IIRC. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 00:46:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27398 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:46:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22363; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 00:00:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA26093 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:58:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA26085 for ; Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:57:58 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 23:57:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 19620 invoked from network); 18 Aug 1999 05:50:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.70.110) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 18 Aug 1999 05:50:38 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990817225922.3ad79afc@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com, From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: lrish liene Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 10:18 PM 8/17/99 -0700, Michelle wrote: [snip] >I had a hard time explaining this and though that that might happen... > I check out books from my college library and photocopy pictures that I >think might be of interest. This particular one was rom a book called >'Period Costume for the Stage and Screen.' The top of the page reads, >'Pattern Sheet No. 31 Sleeve 2--"The Adoration of the Magi" If you have >the book, by some slim chance, it is on page 163. Unfortunately, I never >wrote down a publisher, author or date. I thing that you are referring to Jean Hunnisett's book on Medieval women's clothing (I have two of her books covering 1500-1800 and 1800-1909). My books are published by Players Press, Inc., P.O. Box 1132, Studio City, CA 91614-0132 (re-published in 1991). I know that the medieval book is around because it was sent to me by mistake when I ordered the two I now have. Warning, though very useful, they are pricey, about $50 each, IIRC. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 09:22:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24334 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:22:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22298; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 08:36:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01126 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 08:33:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from edtnps04.telusplanet.net (edtnps04.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.104]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01118 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 08:33:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clgrtnt2-port-5.agt.net ([161.184.43.5]:1029 "HELO Freya") by smtp1.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <52352-15163>; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 08:33:35 -0600 X-Sender: agottfre@pop.telusplanet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: H-COST: Scarlet Pimpernal "spectacle"? X-Mailer: Message-Id: <19990818143348Z52352-15163+51@smtp1.telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 08:33:35 -0600 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Here's the terminology, drawn from _Spectacles, Lorgnettes and Monocles_, by D.C. Davidson (Shire Album #227) Quizzer or quizzing glass--"more popular than scissors [i.e. conventional earpiece] spectacles in Britain during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. At first in the form of a small round lens mountied in a gold ring with a short handle [on the bottom of the lens]...later they were made of silver. Both quizzers and monocles were worn on a cord or ribbon..." Monocle--"developed from the quizzer by cutting the handle length down to a simple loop just large enough to take a ribbon or cord, so considerably reducing the weight and making it possible for the practised user to grip it in the orbit of the eye, thus leaving both hands free...caricurists's symbol of the 'great English aristocrat' from about 1800." Lorgnette--two lenses joined by a bridge, which fold into a case which also serves as a handle to hold the lenses in front of the eyes. Often associated with the "dowager duchess". Introduced in the early nineteenth century. Pince nez--nose-pinching spectacles without handle or earpieces. Regained popularity after a hiatus of over 200 years in the last quarter of the nineteenth century. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 10:51:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24420 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:51:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06893; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:05:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20677 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:02:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20665 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:02:28 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21880 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:02:28 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA04561 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:02:27 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:02:27 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Elizabetha commercial pattern In-Reply-To: <19990818143348Z52352-15163+51@smtp1.telusplanet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com here is a url of what the pattern looks like http://www.konceptz.com/ebay/0679ren.JPG it is being sold on ebay right now. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 11:43:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24505 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:43:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14936; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:56:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03038 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:54:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02944 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:53:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA03952 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-241.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.241]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA16464 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:53:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001001bee99a$d11fa520$956afea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: lrish liene Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:57:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Actually, the name of the book is what I wrote below. "Period Costume for the Stage and Screen" I remember this book as being one of those that gave you one or two examples from a time period and then on to the next period. This one was earlier than 1500. Also, this was with something else that was for men. Maybe the book you have does picture the same sleeve. Quite possible! Thats all I know... Michelle >At 10:18 PM 8/17/99 -0700, Michelle wrote: >[snip] >>I had a hard time explaining this and though that that might happen... >> I check out books from my college library and photocopy pictures that I >>think might be of interest. This particular one was from a book called >>'Period Costume for the Stage and Screen.' The top of the page reads, >>'Pattern Sheet No. 31 Sleeve 2--"The Adoration of the Magi" If you have >>the book, by some slim chance, it is on page 163. Unfortunately, I never >>wrote down a publisher, author or date. > >I thing that you are referring to Jean Hunnisett's book on Medieval women's >clothing (I have two of her books covering 1500-1800 and 1800-1909). My >books are published by Players Press, Inc., P.O. Box 1132, Studio City, CA >91614-0132 (re-published in 1991). I know that the medieval book is around >because it was sent to me by mistake when I ordered the two I now have. >Warning, though very useful, they are pricey, about $50 each, IIRC. > >Joan Jurancich >Sacramento, CA >joanj@quiknet.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 11:49:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24513 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:49:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15963; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:03:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA04648 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:01:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04637 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:01:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p21.directcon.net [206.170.184.120]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA16564 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:00:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:00:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908181700.KAA16564@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabetha commercial pattern Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:02 AM 08/18/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: ches@io.com > >here is a url of what the pattern looks like Wow, that's not bad at all! It should be fairly easy to write up the instructions for modifying it. thanks! Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 12:10:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24528 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 12:10:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18491; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09199 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:21:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09158 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:20:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA15079 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:20:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-241.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.241]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA04278 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:20:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002801bee99e$9e6cfd40$956afea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabetha commercial pattern Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:25:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" It is pretty but, I am not sure about those sleeves. Something just doesn't look right. Michelle -----Original Message----- From: ches@io.com To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 9:05 AM Subject: H-COST: Elizabetha commercial pattern > >-Poster: ches@io.com > >here is a url of what the pattern looks like >http://www.konceptz.com/ebay/0679ren.JPG > >it is being sold on ebay right now. > >Sincerely, >F. Havas >ches@io.com > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 12:18:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24532 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 12:18:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19636; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11134 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:29:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11114 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:29:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.143]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Wed, 18 Aug 1999 12:24:56 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: lrish liene Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:23:38 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37d9eaf8.221726974@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <001001bee99a$d11fa520$956afea9@gunsafes> In-Reply-To: <001001bee99a$d11fa520$956afea9@gunsafes> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id LAA11117 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Wed, 18 Aug 1999 09:57:49 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Michelle" > >Actually, the name of the book is what I wrote below. "Period Costume for >the Stage and Screen" It is the same book. It is sitting in front of me. It has a blue cover, showing a costume sketch of a woman in an orange-toned gown, including swatches. The full title is: Period Costume for Stage and Screen, Pattersn for Women's Dress, Medieval - 1600 By Jean Hunnisett Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 13:57:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24600 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:57:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05771; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:10:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01811 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:07:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01791 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:07:16 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07629 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:07:16 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA17207 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:07:15 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:07:15 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabetha commercial pattern In-Reply-To: <002801bee99e$9e6cfd40$956afea9@gunsafes> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com It is not a problem for anyone with a good picture of the real thing to just fix the sleeves. But as mentioned before by EVERYONE else on the list it is a good beginners pattern or a pattern that can be altered easily for those that are not able to create their own patterns even though they have been in the group for a long time. :) I do not like the sleeves myself. :) I just got back from my hancocks and they did not have this pattern but they had the celtic one. Not very celtic but nice just the same, it is more river danceish folksy. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Wed, 18 Aug 1999, Michelle wrote: > Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:25:07 -0700 > From: Michelle > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabetha commercial pattern > > > -Poster: "Michelle" > > It is pretty but, I am not sure about those sleeves. Something just doesn't > look right. > Michelle > -----Original Message----- > From: ches@io.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Date: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 9:05 AM > Subject: H-COST: Elizabetha commercial pattern > > > > > >-Poster: ches@io.com > > > >here is a url of what the pattern looks like > >http://www.konceptz.com/ebay/0679ren.JPG > > > >it is being sold on ebay right now. > > > >Sincerely, > >F. Havas > >ches@io.com > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 15:36:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24818 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:36:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22894; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:49:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23460 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:45:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23450 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990818204502.QPTA410.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a>; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:45:02 -0700 Message-ID: <039b01bee9b8$baf7aa40$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: , "Sewing" , , "HCostume" , Subject: H-COST: New pattern site and message board Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:32:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" Hi All! First I apologize to anyone on all of these lists that gets 5 copies of this message, but it really applied to all. As many know, I had decided to start a pattern page on one of my websites. The area is up and I'm quickly filling in the details. Allot of patterns are detailed in the index. And though all of them have live links, the details on many are just being filled in, however, I've also gotten many of the photo pages up, so if you go to a particular pattern, you may still be able to view the photos. I'm hoping by the end of the week to have the patterns listed all complete. This turned out to be much bigger than I thought! For now I've just got the patterns listed by company and approximate release date (so the newest patterns are at the end of the listing). I'm eventually going to switch to a database with search capabilities so that you can search for just "medieval" or "civil war" costume pattern reviews. I'd also like to get up as many types of commercially available patterns as possible. So if you are interested in a time period not mentioned, and have a scanner that you could scan the front picture and the inside sketch to send to me along with the pattern company and number, I'll do the rest and get it listed. I'd like to encourage folks to send in critiques about the patterns they've used so that I can add a permanent listing of what us sewers think, what we've changed to make the pattern better etc. Lastly, I've added a message board where I hope folks will feel free to do anything from discuss needed help with certain patterns, to setting up get togethers with other costumers, to listing sales at stores. The message board is not in a password protected area and can be found at: http://unicorncastle.net/board/index.html If you want to visit the pattern area, for now it's password protected so that copyrights are protected, until I can get permission for everything. You can obtain the login name and password by sending email to: pattern_password@unicorncastle.net A direct link to the site is at: http://unicorncastle.net/wardrobe/patterns/index.html the main site is located at: http://unicorncastle.net/index.html If you have any ideas for expanding or improving this area...please let me know! Thanks everyone! ~Kyna _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 15:57:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24947 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:57:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26128; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:10:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28419 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:07:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28410 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:07:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19668; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:15:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA04998; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:22:17 -0500 Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:22:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com cc: SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU Subject: Re: H-COST: Medieval Underpants In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Sun, 15 Aug 1999 lilinah@grin.net wrote: > There have been discussions previously on the existence of Medieval women's > undergarments, particularly underpants. > Today i was in a local second-hand book store rifling the Art Book section > and came across... > A 15th century women taking off or putting on what sure look like > under-drawers. She already has on her chemise and dress (pardon the inexact > terminology here). > It was on a wood carving on a misericord from "Saint-Cermin, the Church of > Saint-Saturnin, formerly at Saint-Chamart" > ... > The carving showed a young woman sitting or squatting and pulling on or off > what sure appear to be underpants. Details of exact shape and cut are hard > (or impossible) to discern, but the garment has two foot-holes, and from > the carved shape, it seems to have some length as well (the body and legs > are rather bunched up but appear substantial). They are definitely not > "panties", but just how long the legs and body are is hard to determine. Sorry for the delayed reply; I've just plugged the computer back in after a cross-country move (please note my change of address) and spotted this in the pile of stacked-up messages. Did the book have any description or analysis of this particular carving? Misericordes often illustrate sayings or proverbs, and also frequently make fun of people/institutions/society. For that reason, we have to be especially careful with misericordes to consider whether an image might be intended to make a joke or deliberately depict a nonsense scene. I remember seeing a misericorde similar to this, possibly the same one -- I can't say till I unpack my books and photos, which may be weeks or months from now. The one I saw was commonly interpreted as illustrating the idea of a woman "wearing the pants" in the family. Sex role reversals are not uncommon in misericordes; I've also seen one that shows a woman beating a man. Similar themes involve spoofs of schoolmasters/students and priests/flock. (I saw one at Ely that showed a fox in a bishop's mitre preaching to a flock of geese.) That doesn't mean this carving isn't a source for women's underpants, but a straightforward picture of a woman dressing wouldn't be as likely a topic for a misericorde as a proverb illustration that stands tradition on its head. And if pants (of any sort) were indeed seen as strictly male clothing, then the satiric meaning would have been perfectly clear to the medieval viewer. To be sure, I'd want to find other misericordes from the original site. Themes often come in batches. If there were a series of proverbs or role-reversals done at the same time for the same church, then I'd see that as pretty clear support for the proverb interpretation. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 16:40:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25068 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:40:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02346; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:54:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA08999 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:51:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08939 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:51:42 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.111] (ppp111.creative.net [208.225.99.111]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA20382 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:51:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:59:07 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Commercial "period" patterns Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net One thing i've noticed, especially among the recent spate of Medieval-oid and Renaissance-ish patterns, is the dirth of tolerable patterns for men. While the patterns for women vary from wretched to workable, the men's patterns all seem uniformly horrid. Is this because it's so hard to get "normal" men to dress up? Or is it just me? Lilinah who is glad to have a male friend who enjoys going into the fabric store and carressing the fabrics _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 17:11:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25152 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:11:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05665; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:25:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA15823 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:22:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.mi.verio.com (mail.mi.verio.com [209.69.6.110]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15811 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:22:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rust.net (69-168.pop.sh.mi.verio.com [209.69.69.168]) by mail.mi.verio.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA14476 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 18:07:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37BB32AE.136DB2D6@rust.net> Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 18:24:46 -0400 From: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Organization: The Curiosity Shop X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Subject: H-COST: American Civil War era maternity wear Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen - -Poster: Stephen Bergdahl > I have been asked to design and make an 1850 to 1860 maternity dress > for a Civil War friend of mine....Squarely middle class for the period. > ...She would like something that has more of a two piece look with a pointed > front that still lets out as she expands. I recently wrote an article for The Citizen's Companion on maternity wear during the CW period so the information I found is still fairly fresh. A middle class woman probably would have different garments for at home and public wear. She would probably have worn a wrapper type garment while at home, but more likely would have worn a saque and petticoat (skirt) out in public. A saque is the direct descendant of the short gown, but without any waist ties. Past Patterns offers a Saque and Petticoat pattern, but the saque runs quite large from all reports and is rather too short. From all reports though it is quite easy to modify it to fit (I've not used it myself) The choice of fabrics would be the determining factor of social class wearing it. There is plenty of evidence for wearing this type of garment while pregnant. An alternative garment which seems to have also been worn, of which I've seen two originals so far, is a cross between a wrapper and a dress. It is cut rather similar to a wrapper in front, but with drawstrings inside and a semi detached lining in the upper body. The back of the dress would be fitted and flat lined like a regular dress, but the front of the lining would only be attached at the sides, armscye and shoulder seams. The lining would be fitted in front, but cut high over the abdomen for obvious reasons. The drawstrings would be let out as the woman's waist expanded. A straight belt could be worn over the drawstring gathers, at least until it starts to emphasis rather than minimize her waist line... I've not seen any evidence for pointed waist style maternity wear in any of my research. This is not to say it wasn't done, I've just not seen any evidence for it... I hope this helps. Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@rust.net Visit our web site, "The Curiosity Shop" http://www.rust.net/~gwjchris/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 17:31:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25163 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:31:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08892; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:45:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20407 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:42:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20398 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:42:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p1.directcon.net [206.170.184.50]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA23437 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:42:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:42:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908182242.PAA23437@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: New pattern site and message board Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson . So if you are >interested in a time period not mentioned, and have a scanner that you could >scan the front picture and the inside sketch to send to me along with the >pattern company and number, Have you checked with the pattern companies on this? I think you may find yourself getting some rather stern letters from lawyers. It's one thing to post reviews of patterns. It's quite another to duplicate their photos and artwork without permission. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 17:33:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25167 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:33:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09236; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:47:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20838 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:44:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20830 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:44:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p1.directcon.net [206.170.184.50]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA23636 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:44:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:44:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908182244.PAA23636@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: New pattern site and message board Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Sorry, I hit the send button too soon by mistake. >If you want to visit the pattern area, for now it's password protected so >that copyrights are protected, until I can get permission for everything. >You can obtain the login name and password by sending email to: > I don't understand how making it "passprotected" protects the copyright. I'd sure like to know if it does, it would make some of my future plans easier. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 17:35:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25171 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:35:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09621; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:49:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21316 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:47:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1101.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.121]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA21297 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:47:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990818224745.26859.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [38.226.171.40] by web1101.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:47:45 PDT Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 15:47:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell Subject: Re: H-COST: Civil War Dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carol Mitchell -According to Gone With the Wind, they just raised the hoop. Along with drawstrings, it might be enough. Carol === Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 17:52:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25199 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:52:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11598; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:06:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA24274 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:03:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24261 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:03:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p1.directcon.net [206.170.184.50]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA25893 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908182303.QAA25893@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: lrish liene Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >> >>> The closest thing I have seen documented was a Roman sleeve. It had a >>>circular piece that the ends of the bagged sleeve were pleated onto, >except >>>for the top of the circle. (Open for your hand to come out, of course.) ((snip) This particular one was rom a book called >'Period Costume for the Stage and Screen.' The top of the page reads, >'Pattern Sheet No. 31 Sleeve 2--"The Adoration of the Magi" If you have >the book, by some slim chance, it is on page 163. Unfortunately, I never >wrote down a publisher, author or date. > It is a huge, wide sleeve and where it hangs, under your elbow, it is >pleated onto a decorative circular trim. It actually somewhat looks like >something they would have used on a foreign planet in the show 'Star Trek.' >;) >Ah Ha! In that caption it is quoted as seen in the painting of 'the >Adoration of the Magi' by Domenico Veneziano. It then goes on to briefly >descibe a velvet doublet, etc. All very grand... > I just got back from the library, and now have a picture. It's a pretty sleeve, but a large bagged sleeve with a pleated cap, pleated into a circular attachement below the arm opening, and belonging to a velvet doublet of the 15th century, painted by an Italian and depicting clothing worn by an allegorical, foreign monarch, is just not close enough for me to accept it as any kind of documentation for the 16th century pleated-along the arm leine sleeves we're discussing. I know you're not calling it documentation, just visually similar, but count on it, someone out there has seen this picture and decided its proof. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 18:00:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25205 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 18:00:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12332; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:13:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA25598 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:11:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25590 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:10:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p1.directcon.net [206.170.184.50]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA26741 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:10:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:10:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908182310.QAA26741@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Hope is right: was: lrish liene Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Hope, I've looked at sources, and you're right, the liene did have bag sleeves, if we take that as meaning the "cuff" area was sewn up to form a bag with hand opening. What about the gathers or pleats along the length of the arm? If they're not there, where do you think they are? On the sleeve to body seam, providing fullness in the sleeve, or along the shoulder line to provide fullness in the body, or what? We know there were pleats, where ARE the darn things??? Oh, for a time machine...of course, if we had one, someone would go to 16th century Ireland and say,"Hey guys, how about we put DRAWSTRINGS in these things?" Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 18:06:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25214 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 18:06:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13112; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA27018 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:18:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27006 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:18:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p1.directcon.net [206.170.184.50]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA27519 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:18:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908182318.QAA27519@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Civil War Dress Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 03:47 PM 08/18/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Carol Mitchell > > > >-According to Gone With the Wind, they just raised the hoop. Along with >drawstrings, it might be enough. It all depends on how the woman's built and how she carries. Raising my hoop might have worked...if I'd raised it to armpit level. My solution was the skirt and saque. I found it neccesary to use suspenders to keep the skirt up, but mounting it on a camisole would also work. You could put slits in the camisole to make it work for breastfeeding afterward. Leave a large hem, because as that belly grows the hem will probably need lengthening. Be sure to consider the weight of fabrics, your friend will feel 10-15 degrees hotter than normal, and heat prostration in pregnancy is dangerous. She'll want a pair of split-crotch drawers, which you can adapt from a maternity pants pattern. Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 18:14:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25220 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 18:14:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13956; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:28:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28317 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:26:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.198.118]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28308 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:25:59 -0600 (MDT) From: rengarb@webtv.net Received: from postoffice-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net (postoffice-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net [209.240.199.90]) by mailsorter-105-2.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP id QAA18177; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:25:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from production@localhost) by postoffice-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/po.gso.24Feb98) id QAA05485; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:25:58 -0700 (PDT) X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRAuLTEtuPqvA1JILtDImsm8dvJNgIUB0CFj4SJgMWnz6s9Le4BzuuQN50= Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:25:58 -0700 (PDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: liene or bag sleeves Message-ID: <5844-37BB4106-2842@postoffice-242.iap.bryant.webtv.net> In-Reply-To: "Michelle" 's message of Tue, 17 Aug 1999 22:18:25 -0700 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rengarb@webtv.net This is Michelle, at Mom's... I have the book in front of me. I was mistaken. They aren't roman. They are from a painting c. 1440. It is from Jean Hunnisett's book, "period costume for the stage and screen." Sorry for all of the confusion. I hope this clears it up now! Michelle (mandrake@mypad.com) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 18:18:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25224 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 18:18:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14670; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:33:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29114 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:30:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29084 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:30:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA14404 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:00:25 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA01610; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:08:34 +0930 Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:08:26 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Hope is right: was: lrish liene In-Reply-To: <199908182310.QAA26741@zeus.directcon.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 18 Aug 1999, Margo Anderson wrote: > Oh, for a time machine...of course, if we had one, someone would go to 16th > century Ireland and say,"Hey guys, how about we put DRAWSTRINGS in these > things?" > If we had a time machine you could just go back and buy one....now that would be authenticity *grin* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 19:13:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25255 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 19:13:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21176; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 18:26:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA07531 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 18:23:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07524 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 18:23:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990819002345.TGQN410.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a> for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 17:23:45 -0700 Message-ID: <044f01bee9d7$47638ee0$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: References: <199908182244.PAA23636@zeus.directcon.net> Subject: H-COST: Copyright WAS: New pattern site and message board Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:10:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" > > I don't understand how making it "passprotected" protects the copyright. > I'd sure like to know if it does, it would make some of my future plans easier. > > Margo > It doesn't. But the email your receive when you ask for the password tells you that by using the password you are agreeing not to violate the copyrights of any companies or individuals whose information is contained on my site for reference and education. I think technically I can use the information for those purposes anyway, but I wanted to ask for permission anyway and this is my method of putting the site up prior to being given permission. ::shrugs:: I'm not a lawyer and this may have holes all over, but it seemed like a good idea at this time. ~Kyna _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 20:54:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25368 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:54:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02837; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA21358 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:05:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21353 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:05:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.19 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 19:05:13 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Civil War Dress Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 22:06:19 -0400 Message-ID: <000601bee9e8$844436a0$1c0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <37B99EFB.EDBD2FE8@2xtreme.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The Folkwear Prairie dress would probably be right for your character in 1850 -1865. Use an apron to snug the waist or wear it loose. In Costume in Detail by Nancy Bradfield, she shows a very casual maternity dress for at home (late maternity--its voluminoius) from 1825 - 35. Fabric at the front is gathered into a very high yolk oncly a few inches deep, about 4 inches above the bust point. At the back, the back flares slightly from the shoulders, completely unfitted to the back, and the gathers in the skirt attach to it at hip level. The maternity jacket and top from 1895 in the same book show the detail you describe, with lacings inserted at the side front behind the jacket panels to let out the brides going away ourfit for maternity use. Its smoothly fitting front panel mimics a vest and the loose jacket bodice pieces hide the lacings to let the bodice out to fit the body. The caracao of 1770-1775 fastens in two layers at the front, and the front edges of the front openings are turned back and stitched temporarily, hook and eyes added to make it close smoothly over the wearer's front. As she grows, the hooks and eyes are removed, more fabric transferred from the inside "facings" to the outside , and the hooks and eyes reinstalled. The loose cotton house gown and the modifiable jacket seem to be very long lived solutions to the challenge of dressing a pregnant woman. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Stephen Bergdahl > Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 1999 1:42 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Civil War Dress > > > > -Poster: Stephen Bergdahl > > > > > To all the list members > > Hello, I need some help. I have been asked to design and > make an 1850 to 1860 > maternity dress for a Civil War friend of mine. The women > who will be wearing > it plays a soldier's wife visiting her husband between > battles. Her husband > was a shopkeeper before the war. So she tends to wear dress > that are a little > more upper class. Better than a Farm Wife's but not what one > would call upper > class. Squarely middle class for the period. > > While I am familiar with the "Wrapper" style, two long panels > gathered to the > shoulder seams to form the front of the bodice and skirt. > She would like > something that has more of a two piece look with a pointed > front that still > lets out as she expands. > > While the design and construction are no problem, the > documentation is giving > me fits. If this was for a play or just a Halloween costume > I would have no > problem. But I don't want to turn this dress loose on the > world without > documentation. There are enough strange things running > around various Living > History Sites whose documentation is limited to, "oh I read about is > somewhere." > > What little I can find about maternity clothes is limited to > the "Workerswomen > Guide" and some plates in a few Godies which describe the > wrapper style. Now > if the Wrapper style was the only style worn, then I will > tell her it's that or > she can find someone else to make it for her. But I just > don't see there being > just one style. > > Now I know that having a baby was not something you talked > about at that time, > but there must be more written about it than this. Any help > would be greatly > appreciated, or just some new ideas as to were to look. > > Your Stephen Bergdahl > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 18 20:54:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25372 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:54:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02838; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA21284 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:05:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21275 for ; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:05:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.19 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 18 Aug 1999 19:04:43 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Hope is right: was: lrish liene Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 20:25:03 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bee9e8$71685520$1c0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <199908182310.QAA26741@zeus.directcon.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I can't answer with certainty without those darn period drawings to refer to. But, going on memory, I think I identified about 7 or 8 different style of leine between about 800 and 1600 AD. There were variations based on quantity of fabric used (what the wearer could afford probably) and style consciousness within the same time period ---- as well as an evolution through the entire period. Not every leine had pleats. Poor people had no pleats, judging by the drawings. Those that did wear pleats clearly had different cuts (leine patterns, if you will). Not every leine had pleats along the top of the sleeve. Some had pleats into the neckline. Some had pleats into the "armscye," sholder seam, although it wasn't a curved but a straight armscye until very late. Others had pleats starting at the neckline and going all the way down the sleeve. In some cases the arm came out the cuff, and in other cases, there was a slit on the front of the arm at the elbow for the arm to extend from, maybe as an option for convenience. Many appeared to be broomsticked, ie pleated to a pole or wadded and tied to dry to achieve the pleats--I swear there might well have been a fixed tape on the underside or a drawsting to stabilize all that fabric in place on some. I am not one of those people who say the drawstring didn't exist. I'm just saying there was a wide variety of cuts, and there wasn't one architypal leine true across the entire time period, and the drawstring if it existed could olny have occured on the fraction with the pleats from neckline to elbow or cuff. Other style variations include the front opening. During some periods, all the leine seem to open all the way down the front and wrap around, closing in front like a bathrobe with a belt. At other times, there was just a slit at the front neckline to allow the head through. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Margo Anderson > Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 1999 7:11 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Hope is right: was: lrish liene > > > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > Hope, I've looked at sources, and you're right, the liene did have bag > sleeves, if we take that as meaning the "cuff" area was sewn > up to form a > bag with hand opening. > > What about the gathers or pleats along the length of the arm? > If they're not > there, where do you think they are? On the sleeve to body > seam, providing > fullness in the sleeve, or along the shoulder line to provide > fullness in > the body, or what? We know there were pleats, where ARE the > darn things??? > > Oh, for a time machine...of course, if we had one, someone > would go to 16th > century Ireland and say,"Hey guys, how about we put > DRAWSTRINGS in these > things?" > > Margo > > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 09:52:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22461 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:52:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24772; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:05:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09133 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:02:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA09112 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 09:02:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990819150614.26270.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:06:14 PDT Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 08:06:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: H-COST: Slightly OT: Black Evening Gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney This is slightly OT and I apologize to anyone I have annoyed... I know several of you have kids... I don't know how old, but if any of your daughters are of the high school/prom age or if you yourself go to events where evening wear is required, take a look at my e-bay auction at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=149473569 Thanks for the interruption... I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion. Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 11:23:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22601 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:23:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07471; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:36:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01160 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:33:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from na-ims.alcoa.com ([147.154.3.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01145 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 10:33:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908191633.KAA01145@net.indra.com> Received: by NA-IMS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:33:21 -0400 From: "Fairchild, Connie E." To: "'h-costume-digest@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: RE: h-costume-digest V4 #492 Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:33:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Fairchild, Connie E." > - - -Poster: Stephen Bergdahl > > > I have been asked to design and make an 1850 to 1860 maternity dress > > for a Civil War friend of mine....Squarely middle class for the > period. > > > ...She would like something that has more of a two piece look with a > pointed front that still lets out as she expands. > In the Amazon Drygoods catalog there is a #408 Period Impressions pattern -- Sacque Jacket. It is described as an 1860's traveling jacket or maternity top with instruction for maternity skirt. It looks very much like a Godey print I remember seeing, but it does not have a pointed front. Regarding a pointed front, I don't think it would be practical for most pregnant women, because I would think it would go above the belly and would begin pointing up and at an angle away from the body as the months rolled along -- might end up looking like a bid or something sticking out : ) Great care was taken to cover/hide/camoflauge the condition of pregnancy with various loose styles and draping. When it got too noticeable, the woman would be in her confinement at home or at a relative's home for example, and did not go out in public until the baby came. These were different times and I believe you will find little about being pregnant which was actually written at the time. In the Godey print, the maternity outfit is just placed in with other figures casually. The print is owned by a friend and I don't have access to the text that would have gone with it. Just my opinions. Connie Fairchild Connie.Fairchild@alcoa.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 11:49:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22645 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:49:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12321; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:04:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA08189 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:01:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.126]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08177 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:01:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brujne.creighton.edu (brujne.creighton.edu [147.134.201.104]) by mailjay.creighton.edu (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with SMTP id MAA02445 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:01:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199908191701.MAA02445@mailjay.creighton.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Cindy Abel" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:02:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: h-costume-digest V4 #492 Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199908191633.KAA01145@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cindy Abel" Charles Frederick Worth, the first modern courtiere, found great favor among his clientele for actually designing and discretely showing on live models(for the client to view only)maternity wear. I've not yet seen a surviving Worth maternity outfit--I'll bet most were remodeled, wore out, or were sold, thrown away, when most didn't realize the future worth of a surviving Worth product. (pun intended!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 12:36:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22677 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:36:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18640; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:50:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19192 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:47:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19183 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:47:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-79-174.s174.tnt5.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.79.174]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA26154 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:47:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00d201beea6a$b2844b40$caf4accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: maternity dresses Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:45:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I recently saw an 1890s maternity dress for sale in a vintage shop in Richmond, VA. It was hand made. The owner brought out an 1880s bodice to show me of this wonderful fabric. The vintage shop across the street sold the bodice to him. He told me, "You won't believe what happened to the skirt." The shop across the street sold the skirt to a lady who was having her couch redone in the fabric. Yes, the skirt had that much fabric in it. :( Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 13:40:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22776 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:40:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28118; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:52:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02961 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:49:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02954 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:49:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-33qsc9b.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.49.43]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA05169; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:49:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01b101beea73$832aa020$2b31aec7@oemcomputer> From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" To: , Subject: H-COST: Problem with chemise Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:49:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" Greetings all... I'm making a very simple chemise (the one where you take 4 pieces of fabric, snip the outter corners, and sew the corners, the up the 2 outside seams) and I made the snips to short, and as such the armholes are too small to put my arms through. what would be the simplest way to put in a gusset or smomething to make the arm hole bigger? Otherwise its a nice loose baggy chemise! ARGH! Anya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 13:49:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22782 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:49:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29748; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:01:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04915 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:58:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04900 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:58:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA05768; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 11:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BC544C.35E9E506@serv.net> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:00:29 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com CC: SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU Subject: Re: H-COST: Problem with chemise References: <01b101beea73$832aa020$2b31aec7@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > I'm making a very simple chemise (the one where you take 4 pieces of fabric, > snip the outter corners, and sew the corners, the up the 2 outside seams) > and I made the snips to short, and as such the armholes are too small to put > my arms through. what would be the simplest way to put in a gusset or > smomething to make the arm hole bigger? Otherwise its a nice loose baggy > chemise! ARGH! I guess what I'd do is this. You say that you made the snips too short. Well, take that apart and make the snips bigger. Sure you could put a gusset in too. But if the problem is short snips, that's what I'd do, lengthen the snips. Merouda -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 14:28:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22814 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:28:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05773; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:40:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13128 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:38:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13116 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:38:06 -0600 (MDT) From: Ltondreau@aol.com Received: from Ltondreau@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6SWJa06249 (4411); Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:37:14 EDT Subject: H-COST: 1/2 scale dress form/instructions To: h-costume@indra.com CC: Ltondreau@aol.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 11 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ltondreau@aol.com Where do I purchase a 1/2 scale dress form? Is Superior any different from Wolf dress forms? Are there other brands/companies we should be aware of? I'd be interested in reading about the history of this interesting tool? Any references out there? What about books/instructions concerning grading to full scale? Cordial to all, Luecella M. Tondreau Designer, Patternmaker, Seamstress _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 14:37:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22827 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:37:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07435; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:49:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14997 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:46:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA14989 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:46:43 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990819194645.19512.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:46:45 PDT Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:46:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: 1/2 scale dress form/instructions To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney > Where do I purchase a 1/2 scale dress form? Is > Superior any different from > Wolf dress forms? Are there other brands/companies > we should be aware of? Call me silly, but what use is a 1/2 scale dress form? I'm sure I'm missing something. sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 14:48:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22842 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:48:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09016; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:00:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA17180 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17171 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:56:59 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12017 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:56:57 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA28340 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:56:56 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:56:56 -0500 (CDT) To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: those pattern numbers Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com hre is the picture of the 'celtic' one http://www.konceptz.com/ebay/0663ren.JPG the pattern number is simplicity 0663 the Elizabethan is simplicity 0679 They will both be in their own displays. The celtic one will be with the ever after display on top of the pattern drawers and the Elizabethan one will be with the holloween stand up one on the floor. Good luck everyone, I hope you all find them! Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 15:13:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22870 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:13:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10910; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:11:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19699 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:08:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19686 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:08:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.143]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:04:02 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1/2 scale dress form/instructions Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 20:02:55 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37f162b2.317927152@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <19990819194645.19512.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <19990819194645.19512.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id OAA19688 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Thu, 19 Aug 1999 12:46:45 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Call me silly, but what use is a 1/2 scale dress form? > I'm sure I'm missing something. They are for draping out new patterns on a smaller, easier to handle scale. Very useful if you are a prefessional designer. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 15:14:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22874 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:14:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13696; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:25:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23061 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:22:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23053 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:22:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p2.directcon.net [206.170.184.51]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA19535 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:21:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:21:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908192021.NAA19535@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: H-Cost: Medieval Research question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I'm forwarding this from the SCA-West list. Can someone help this lady? >O.K, you guys, I need help! From ms. printed in England in various editions from the last decade of the fifteenth century to the first decade of the sixteenth century, but from sources (mostly in Latin) from the 13th century onward, and written by monks, whose basic uniform is a laundry bag (i.e., not fashion wizards); > >the blessyd virgyn Marye appearyd to hym vysyvly in a whyte garment, that lacked bothe sleues & lappes. Than this monke meruayles and sayd to her, " O moost swete Lady, why haue your vpper clothynge no sleues ne lappes?" > > >>From the Peter Whiteford critical edition of They Myracles of Oure Lady, ed from Wynkyn de Worde's edition (Heidelberg: Carl Winter Universitatsverlag, 1990), 41. > >I translated "sleeves and collar," but I'm still a little confused by "lappes." It could refer to any collar, modesty panel or anything else that was on a woman's garment (a woman of modesty and high estate) between 1200 and 1512. Any good ideas? (This is for the final draft of the dissertation so it is time critical). (Yeah, I know I could do this myself, but why spend all that time when I have a mob of experts out there.) > >Dana/Maythen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 15:16:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22878 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:16:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14383; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:28:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23764 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:25:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23752 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:25:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA07521 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:26:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BC68A5.942766B1@serv.net> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:27:17 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: those pattern numbers References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > the pattern number is simplicity 0663 > the Elizabethan is simplicity 0679 > > They will both be in their own displays. The celtic one will be with the > ever after display on top of the pattern drawers and the Elizabethan one > will be with the holloween stand up one on the floor. The Ever After displays? Is this the one that is quasi-Italian? Or is there some other pattern I don't know about? Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 15:27:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22887 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:27:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16225; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:38:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25973 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:35:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25963 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:35:17 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30843 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:35:16 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA06609 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:35:16 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:35:16 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: those pattern numbers In-Reply-To: <37BC68A5.942766B1@serv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com The Italian ones. It is a very tiny display and may be hidden. They all have Renaissance in bold letters on the top, the celtic one says Celtic in bold letters and the other one says Elizabethan. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Thu, 19 Aug 1999, Merouda the True of Bornover wrote: > Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 13:27:17 -0700 > From: Merouda the True of Bornover > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: those pattern numbers > > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > > > the pattern number is simplicity 0663 > > the Elizabethan is simplicity 0679 > > > > They will both be in their own displays. The celtic one will be with the > > ever after display on top of the pattern drawers and the Elizabethan one > > will be with the holloween stand up one on the floor. > > The Ever After displays? Is this the one that is quasi-Italian? Or is > there some other pattern I don't know about? > > Cynthia > -- > Cynthia Long > Merouda the True of Bornover > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of An Tir > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 16:02:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22940 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:02:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21832; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:10:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA03548 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:07:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03532 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:07:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.147] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11HZPa-0007a3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:07:50 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:07:06 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: WAS: [SCA-West]Research problem Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I do not know what 'lappes' are, either, but the references I found, plus Sir Maythen's are interesting. If anyone knows, please write to me post-haste with ref's so that Sir Maythen may put the final touches on her Thesis. Many, many thanks in a'vance! -- Gra/inne Sir Maythen writes: Subject: [SCA-West]Research problem > the blessyd virgyn Marye appearyd to hym vysyvly in a whyte garment, that >lacked bothe sleues & lappes. Than this monke meruayles and sayd to her, " O >moost swete Lady, why haue your vpper clothynge no sleues ne lappes?" > From the Peter Whiteford critical edition of They Myracles of Oure Lady, ed >from Wynkyn de Worde's edition (Heidelberg: Carl Winter Universitatsverlag, >1990), 41. I websurfing found: From The alliterative "La morte d'Arthur", The Thornton Ms., Folios 84v-94r: 3252: In a surcott of sylke selkouthely hewede, 3253: All with loyotour ouerlaide lowe to pe hemmes, 3254: And with ladily lappes the lenghe of a 3erde, 3255: And all redily reuersside with rebanes of golde; Another, this time from "Piers Plowman": http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/a/apple044.html Apple cookery is very early English: Piers Ploughman mentions 'all the povere peple' who 'baken apples broghte in his lappes' and the ever popular apple pie was no less esteemed in Tudor times than it is to-day, only our ancestors had some predilections in the matter of seasonings that might not now appeal to all of us, for they put cinnamon and ginger in their pies and gave them a lavish colouring of saffron. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 16:03:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22944 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:02:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22909; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:16:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05218 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:14:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:root@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05203 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:14:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.151.9.12] (th-0-3.patriot.net [206.151.9.12] (may be forged)) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA28150 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 17:14:11 -0400 Message-Id: <199908192114.RAA28150@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Problem with chemise Date: Thu, 19 Aug 99 17:16:32 -0000 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Anya wrote, >I'm making a very simple chemise (the one where you take 4 pieces of fabric, >snip the outter corners, and sew the corners, the up the 2 outside seams) >and I made the snips to short, and as such the armholes are too small to put >my arms through. what would be the simplest way to put in a gusset or >smomething to make the arm hole bigger? Otherwise its a nice loose baggy >chemise! ARGH! Don't lenghten the snips, add gussets. There is a 17thC Italian chemise in _Cut My Cote_, and it has gussets. Cut two squares, 10" on the side. From the armpit corner, open the seam 9" each way. Sew in the gussets. __________ __________ I I I I I I I I I__________I________I__________I \ I I / gusset \ I I / gusset \I I/ I I I I I I I________I The drawing isn't perfect. When the chemise is flat, the gussets will be the same measurement on the top and the side. -Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 16:17:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22957 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:17:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23551; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:20:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA06154 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:17:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06145 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:17:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-182.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.182]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00365 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:17:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BC0F93.8EEE2450@pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:07:16 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Medieval Research question References: <199908192021.NAA19535@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, I'm no language expert, but I'll give it a whirl. Margo asks for translation of: > the blessyd virgyn Marye appearyd to hym vysyvly in a whyte garment, that > lacked bothe sleues & lappes. Than this monke meruayles and sayd to her," > O moost swete Lady, why haue your vpper clothynge no sleues ne lappes?" "...the blessed Virgin Mary appeared to him visibly in a white garment that lacked both sleeves and lap(pet)s. Then this monk marvels and said to her, 'Oh most sweet Lady, why have your upper clothing no sleeves nor lap(pet)s?'..." > I translated "sleeves and collar," but I'm still a little confused by > "lappes." It could refer to any collar, modesty panel or anything else > that was on a woman's garment (a woman of modesty and high estate) between > 1200 and 1512. Any good ideas? (This is for the final draft of the > dissertation so it is time critical). (Yeah, I know I could do this > myself, but why spend all that time when I have a mob of experts out there.) You have two choices, it appears. 'lap' is defined as "a : a loose overlapping or hanging panel or flap esp. of a garment. b archaic : the skirt of a coat or dress". 'lappet' was another term for the lap meaning "1: a fold of flap on a garment or headdress". It came to mean the flaps that hang down from a bishops miter. I'd bet on it being somewhat like the top of a chiton that hangs down covering the chest. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 16:49:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22973 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:49:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00420; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:03:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA16140 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:00:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16125 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:00:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.176] (sdts10-65.znet.net [207.167.66.65]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id OAA29312 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37BC0F93.8EEE2450@pacbell.net> References: <199908192021.NAA19535@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 14:34:27 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Medieval Research question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >You have two choices, it appears. 'lap' is defined as "a : a loose overlapping >or hanging panel or flap esp. of a garment. b archaic : the skirt of a coat or >dress". 'lappet' was another term for the lap meaning "1: a fold of flap on a >garment or headdress". It came to mean the flaps that hang down from a >bishops miter. I was reading it as "lappet" too, which is often a band around the arm, just above the elbow that hangs down in a long wide ribbon. It can also be dagged, but is often seen plain, especially in English cotehardies. I've also seen the term used for the "tail" on the chaperone/hood, that when rolled up into a turban-styled hat, hung out the side and is seen looped under the chin, and it makes sense to me that it would also be the flaps from the bishops miter. From a modern perspective, it tends to be a long narrow flap, and the medieval ones tend to be about 3" wide and rounded on the ends... this case, I'd lean toward the sentence discussing the sleeves vs hats or skirts. Perhaps the person had only a short-sleeved gown, with no pinned-on oversleeves or lappets (above the elbow)... Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 17:40:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23114 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 17:40:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06494; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:44:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25265 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:41:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from falcon.canfield.com (falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25251 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 16:41:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Leslie (u6-10.wa.net [206.191.135.74]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA31099 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:45:52 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990819153105.0369e410@mail.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslie@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 15:42:19 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! In-Reply-To: <199908192035.OAA26004@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Leslie Helms Merouda's description of Northwestern US SCA fashions is awfully apt and the Simplicity Celtic pattern at http://www.konceptz.com/ebay/0663ren.JPG is probably going to sell like hotcakes here. I'm beginning to sink into depression every time I see metal grommets. We'll be subjected to these in plaid taffeta and rayon velvet this feast season.... gahhhh.... but perhaps we should thank Simplicity for giving us photographic evidence that these bodices CAN be worn with high-necked shifts. grumble, snarl... On a more constructive note, I'd like to hear from someone who has used this pattern and/or the SImplicity Elizabethan. Are any hints on bodice fitting included? I'm fairly impressed with the Period Patterns Tudor/Elizabethan, which instructs the user to cut muslins of the bodice pieces and fit carefully over a corset, then transfer the changes to the actual fabric. Leslie Helms _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 19 20:04:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23190 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 20:04:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24523; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 19:18:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA21529 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 19:15:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21515 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 19:15:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from slave (BayArea56k466.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.66]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id SAA11690 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 18:15:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BCAB9B.6DE8@netwiz.net> Date: Thu, 19 Aug 1999 18:12:59 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! References: <4.1.19990819153105.0369e410@mail.canfield.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi Leslie Helms wrote: > > -Poster: Leslie Helms > > Merouda's description of Northwestern US SCA fashions is awfully apt and > the Simplicity Celtic pattern at http://www.konceptz.com/ebay/0663ren.JPG Well, they're cute, and possibly suitable for Scottish Country Dancing? Don't they look more or less 19th c.? (or Brigadoon?) Wouldn't that put them well beyond the scope of either the SCA or the Renaissance? Of course, the Renaissance arrived a bit later in Scotland ... :-> Susan with tongue firmly in cheek -- susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 00:04:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA23559 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 00:04:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19267; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 23:17:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA23919 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 23:14:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.suffolk.lib.ny.us (mx.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.91.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23910 for ; Thu, 19 Aug 1999 23:14:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bchamber (dial-in52 [199.173.93.52]) by mx.suffolk.lib.ny.us (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA09520 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 01:06:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009201beeaca$eb41bd40$345dadc7@bchamber> From: "Beth" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: Discontinued buttons Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 01:14:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_008F_01BEEAA9.62F134A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Beth" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01BEEAA9.62F134A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I lost the original message from someone looking for buttons but... Any one looking for discontinued buttons might want to try Buttons & = Things in Freeport, Maine. They do mail order and also have a matching = service. I managed to fill-in several old (purchased 10 years ago)sets, = one of which I had been looking for since I purchased the originals. The = owner advertises as a factory outlet, if my memory is right (lets not = bet on that) she had JHB, LaMode, and Streamline as well as many I = couldn't identify. If you go near Freeport make the time to stop. The = store is in an old house and the first floor is just buttons and more = buttons - floor to ceiling and wall to wall. The prices are very = reasonable and they are sold individually so you can buy what you need. Http://www.buttonsmaine.com Buttons & Things 24 Main Street, Rt. 1 Freeport, Maine 04032 207-865-4480=20 ------=_NextPart_000_008F_01BEEAA9.62F134A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I lost the original message from someone looking for = buttons=20 but...
 
Any one looking for discontinued buttons might want = to try=20 Buttons & Things in Freeport, Maine. They do mail order and also = have a=20 matching service. I managed to fill-in several old (purchased 10 years = ago)sets,=20 one of which I had been looking for since I purchased the originals. The = owner=20 advertises as a factory outlet, if my memory is right (lets not bet = on=20 that) she had JHB, LaMode, and Streamline as well as many I couldn't = identify.=20 If you go near Freeport make the time to stop. The store is in an = old house=20 and the first floor is just buttons and more buttons - floor to ceiling = and wall=20 to wall. The prices are very reasonable and they are sold = individually so=20 you can buy what you need.
 
Http://www.buttonsmaine.com
 Buttons & Things
24 Main Street, Rt. 1
Freeport, Maine 04032
207-865-4480 
------=_NextPart_000_008F_01BEEAA9.62F134A0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 10:28:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20456 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:28:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28009; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:40:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA13462 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:37:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13448 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:37:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28639 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 08:38:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BD76B1.B9B5B728@serv.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 08:39:29 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Medieval Research question References: <199908192021.NAA19535@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > I was reading it as "lappet" too, which is often a band around the arm, > just above the elbow that hangs down in a long wide ribbon. It can also be > dagged, but is often seen plain, especially in English cotehardies. Actually, I believe this is called a tippet. :) > I've > also seen the term used for the "tail" on the chaperone/hood, that when > rolled up into a turban-styled hat, hung out the side and is seen looped > under the chin I have only heard this refered to as a liripipe. One of the things I think of when I think of lappets are the flaps that hang down the sides of the early-mid Tudor ladies head dresses. Can't remember what date the quote was from. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 10:35:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20462 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:35:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29410; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:49:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA15441 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:46:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15424 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:46:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28844 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 08:47:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BD78C0.E640BD9@serv.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 08:48:17 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! References: <4.1.19990819153105.0369e410@mail.canfield.com> <37BCAB9B.6DE8@netwiz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > > Merouda's description of Northwestern US SCA fashions is awfully apt and > > the Simplicity Celtic pattern at http://www.konceptz.com/ebay/0663ren.JPG > > Well, they're cute, and possibly suitable for Scottish > Country Dancing? Don't they look more or less 19th c.? > (or Brigadoon?) > Wouldn't that put them well beyond the scope of either > the SCA or the Renaissance? Of course, the Renaissance > arrived a bit later in Scotland ... :-> Yes indeedy it does. But perhaps you haven't been to a PNW SCA event. We have *WAY* too many folks wearing the tavern wench look. Bodice, muslin or cotton shirt, skirt. The only requirement in the SCA is to make an *attempt* at clothing prior to 1600 (1650 some say). Since this outfit is an *attempt* at, say, the Poulet Gauche of the late 1500's-early 1600's look it slides. The worst thing about this look is the, PLEASE pardon my language here, Tits On A Plate look. That's what costuming folks here call it. The neckline of the bodice is cut so low that the breasts flop out of the bodice entirely and swing relatively free in the shirt on the outside of the bodice. I guess it's more like Balls In A Sack though. (Don't go there!!) If this Simplicity pattern at least gets the breasts inside where they belong I will, for one, be *MUCH* happier. GAWD it's disgusting... If we can get them to do this, maybe we can get them in a corset next. And then a partlet and farthingale. Hoping against hope, Cynthia (aka Merouda) -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 10:42:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20484 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:42:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00743; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:56:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16858 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:53:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16848 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:53:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FGR00DR3TGIAW@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:53:07 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:59:30 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: H-COST: That Moy dress again... X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990820105930.007a1dc0@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson I've made some changes to the Moy Dress page, if there are any of you who are interested in taking a look. I've gotten a better idea of the likely original cutting pattern, and some photos of a mock-up. Marc Carlson http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthenon/5923/cloth/moy.html and http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthenon/5923/cloth/moy3.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 11:09:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20510 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:09:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04577; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:21:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA22797 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:18:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22777 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:18:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p45.directcon.net [206.170.184.144]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04002 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908201618.JAA04002@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson The neckline of the >bodice is cut so low that the breasts flop out of the bodice entirely and swing >relatively free in the shirt on the outside of the bodice. I guess it's more >like Balls In A Sack though. (Don't go there!!) If this Simplicity pattern at >least gets the breasts inside where they belong I will, for one, be *MUCH* >happier. GAWD it's disgusting... I have never understood the popularity of this look. Don't they understand how gross it looks? It's okay on, say, a 16 year old who still has firm breasts, but so often it's your Woman Of A Certain Age, with her bosom drooping over the top of her bodice....ugh! And the same body would be so much improved by wearing a properly fitted bodice that pushes them up. Also, it's painful. I tried the under the breast bodice look once, for Middle Eastern, and I was in agony. Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 11:11:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20516 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:11:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05013; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24018 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:23:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23951 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:23:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.156] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11HrRa-000049-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:23:06 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 09:22:20 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Medieval Research question In-Reply-To: <37BD76B1.B9B5B728@serv.net> References: <199908192021.NAA19535@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 08:39 AM 8/20/99 -0700, you wrote: >Actually, I believe this is called a tippet. :) So did I. >I have only heard this refered to as a liripipe. Concur again. >One of the things I think of when I think of lappets are the flaps that hang down >the sides of the early-mid Tudor ladies head dresses. Can't remember what date >the quote was from. Lappets, yes. In this case though, the MS reads: l a p p e s. -- >Cynthia Long >Merouda the True of Bornover Thank you, Lady Merouda. I shall fwd. your msg. to Sir Maythen. Gra/inne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 12:33:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20615 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:33:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16489; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:47:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA12546 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:43:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from aw163.netaddress.usa.net (aw163.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA12520 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:43:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 26907 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Aug 1999 17:43:50 -0000 Message-ID: <19990820174350.26906.qmail@aw163.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.63 by aw163 via web-mailer(M3.2.0.53) on Fri Aug 20 17:43:50 GMT 1999 Date: 20 Aug 99 10:43:50 PDT From: Agnes Gawne To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:maternity dress X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.2.0.53) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id LAA12534 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Agnes Gawne There is an interesting website of the Neil Vincent Collection, a Bainbridge Island couture costume collector. He had one maternity gown in the last show he mounted http://www.vincentcollection.com/gallery0.html "C. 1863 gown for "a young married lady in a delicate and interesting state of health." shown. Take a look at the photo. Neil Vincent is a wonderful guy and he would probably answer questions about construction of that gown if you e-mailed him. Incidentally, if you ever have a chance to see any of his collection on s\display - do it. He has only high quality things and is very careful to display them correctly. ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.amexmail.com/?A=1 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 12:42:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20623 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:42:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18065; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:56:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14645 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:53:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx2.io.com (IDENT:root@mx2.io.com [199.170.88.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14636 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:53:53 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by mx2.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA00925 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:53:52 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA12304 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:53:52 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:53:51 -0500 (CDT) To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: those patterns again... Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Here is the new url for the OTHER patterns that simplicity put together. http://www.simplicity.com/845ren/ren-home.htm Has anyone found the Elizabethan one in any store other than Hancock's? Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 12:58:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20636 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:58:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20615; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:13:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18042 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:10:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18024 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:10:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA02122 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:11:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BD9A71.9ECAC3D5@serv.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:12:01 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: those patterns again... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover I found it at Joann's last night and at our local Pacific Fabrics more than a week ago. Cynthia > Here is the new url for the OTHER patterns that simplicity put together. > http://www.simplicity.com/845ren/ren-home.htm > Has anyone found the Elizabethan one in any store other than -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 13:13:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20652 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:13:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22796; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:26:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21042 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:23:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21033 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:23:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn11.pm3-5.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.241.102]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03131 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:23:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908201823.MAA03131@sight.vcn.com> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 12:06:30 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Of course there is also the OTHER look, by more modest but equally misled ladies - the low-cut bodice, the see-through muslin shirt, and the great-big iron-clad Cross-Your-Heart bra - often in a tasteful black....... Liadain, constantly amazed at what ya see when you ain't got your gun..... > The neckline of the > >bodice is cut so low that the breasts flop out of the bodice entirely and swing > >relatively free in the shirt on the outside of the bodice. I guess it's more > > I have never understood the popularity of this look. Don't they understand > how gross it looks? It's okay on, say, a 16 year old who still has firm > breasts, but so often it's your Woman Of A Certain Age, with her bosom > drooping over the top of her bodice....ugh! And the same body would be so > much improved by wearing a properly fitted bodice that pushes them up. > > Also, it's painful. I tried the under the breast bodice look once, for > Middle Eastern, and I was in agony. > > Margo Anderson > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 13:20:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20658 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:20:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23924; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:34:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22875 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:32:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from SunSite.stockgroup.com ([216.13.181.199]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22865 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:32:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DE14 ([216.13.181.62]) by SunSite.stockgroup.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA2F6B for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:34:04 -0700 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990820112643.009a4220@mail.stockgroup.com> X-Sender: karlasca@mail.dowco.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:33:34 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Charlotte Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! In-Reply-To: <37BD78C0.E640BD9@serv.net> References: <4.1.19990819153105.0369e410@mail.canfield.com> <37BCAB9B.6DE8@netwiz.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlotte >Yes indeedy it does. But perhaps you haven't been to a PNW SCA event. We >have >*WAY* too many folks wearing the tavern wench look. Bodice, muslin or cotton >shirt, skirt. The only requirement in the SCA is to make an *attempt* at >clothing prior to 1600 (1650 some say). Since this outfit is an *attempt* at, >say, the Poulet Gauche of the late 1500's-early 1600's look it slides. The >worst thing about this look is the, PLEASE pardon my language here, Tits On A >Plate look. That's what costuming folks here call it. The neckline of the >bodice is cut so low that the breasts flop out of the bodice entirely and >swing >relatively free in the shirt on the outside of the bodice. I guess it's more >like Balls In A Sack though. (Don't go there!!) If this Simplicity >pattern at >least gets the breasts inside where they belong I will, for one, be *MUCH* >happier. GAWD it's disgusting... I have to agree with Merouda here. Here in An Tir, there are far too many people wearing the tavern wench look. I have a feeling that part of this is because there are also a lot of newbies running around and it can be the easiest thing to put together at first. My first 2 outfits were both tavern wench outfits. I even did the Tits on a Plate thing, before I figured out how to lace my bodice to be comfortable and not make me look like that. (I admit the first time I wore a boned bodice, the only thing going through my head was "oh my g*d, there's actually a waist in there somewhere!) I have since "graduated" to wearing surcotes 90% of the time (if the event calls for it, I will wear the wench stuff... usually only in the evening). My next attempt is going to be a houppelande though. >If we can get them to do this, maybe we can get them in a corset >next. And then >a partlet and farthingale. Hey Merouda... you ever make it up to Vancouver? I'm trying to get some people together to do a fabric run through Little India and Dressew's some saturday and then spend the rest of saturday and sunday making garb :) Charlotte Madeleine de Courseilles mka Karla Sexsmith in the Barony of Lion's Gate Kingdom of An Tir mka Vancouver BC Canada _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 13:21:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20662 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:21:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24046; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:35:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22989 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:32:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web803.mail.yahoo.com (web803.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA22979 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:32:42 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990820183616.7055.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web803.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:36:16 PDT Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:36:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: those patterns again... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney > Has anyone found the Elizabethan one in any store > other than > Hancock's? Yep... Jo-Ann's has it... they just dont have the new books yet so you can't look it up.. .though I found it on an end-cap. Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 13:25:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20669 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:25:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24969; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:39:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23851 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:36:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23843 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:36:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-33qsd0q.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.52.26]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA05680 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:36:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00bd01beeb3a$e6f1f640$1a34aec7@oemcomputer> From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: those patterns again... Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:36:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" -----Original Message----- From: ches@io.com To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 12:54 Subject: H-COST: those patterns again... > >-Poster: ches@io.com > >Here is the new url for the OTHER patterns that simplicity put together. >http://www.simplicity.com/845ren/ren-home.htm > >Has anyone found the Elizabethan one in any store other than >Hancock's? > >Sincerely, >F. Havas >ches@io.com Yup! JoAnne's has them, and they drop to 1.99 Saturday. and Labor Day weekend JoAnn's will have the McCall's for 99 cents if you are intrested... Anya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 13:26:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20673 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:26:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25266; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:40:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24117 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:37:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA24098 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:37:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990820183745.22935.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:37:45 PDT Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 11:37:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Well, now, nothing beats the chain-mail-bikini-with-nothing-under-it that we see at Gen-Con. *sigh* And they wonder why they get hit on... Sarah > Of course there is also the OTHER look, by more > modest but equally > misled > ladies - the low-cut bodice, the see-through muslin > shirt, and the > great-big iron-clad > Cross-Your-Heart bra - often in a tasteful > black....... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 13:32:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20679 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:32:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25820; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:42:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24626 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:40:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24609 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:40:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-33qsd0q.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.52.26]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA27051 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:40:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00c401beeb3b$6c9ed920$1a34aec7@oemcomputer> From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:40:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" -----Original Message----- From: Frank A Thallas Jr To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 13:24 Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! > >-Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" > > > Of course there is also the OTHER look, by more modest but equally >misled >ladies - the low-cut bodice, the see-through muslin shirt, and the >great-big iron-clad >Cross-Your-Heart bra - often in a tasteful black....... > > Liadain, > constantly amazed at what ya see when you ain't got your gun..... > Ok, obviously everyone here hates the tavern look! ::grin:: I'm curious as to the opinion of the list of the Simplicity pattern for larger ladies ::ahem:: that is a bodice and overskirt/skirt... It looks very modest to me, especially when I put my nice new chemise under it. I refer to the "nobility" version not the servant one with the off the shoulder top... Anya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 13:39:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20683 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:39:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27450; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:53:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26661 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:50:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26654 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:50:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn11.pm3-5.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.241.102]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09236 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:50:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908201850.MAA09236@sight.vcn.com> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 12:33:25 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Actually, I don't think we all HATE it (except for the apparently obligatory tits-on-a-platter look); it's just that in some places, it's overdone. The SCA, after all, covers 1000 years of history; how come everybody's jammed up at one end?!? I am another Bountiful Lady, and have one of the mentioned-below outfits - just cut the bodice so that it contains your Bounty properly. Liadain > Ok, obviously everyone here hates the tavern look! ::grin:: > > I'm curious as to the opinion of the list of the Simplicity pattern for > larger ladies ::ahem:: that is a bodice and overskirt/skirt... It > looks very modest to me, especially when I put my nice new chemise under it. > I refer to the "nobility" version not the servant one with the off the > shoulder top... > > Anya > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 13:49:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20690 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:49:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29073; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:03:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28752 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:00:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28744 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:00:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p18.directcon.net [206.170.184.67]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA21333 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:00:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:00:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908201900.MAA21333@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >I'm curious as to the opinion of the list of the Simplicity pattern for >larger ladies ::ahem:: that is a bodice and overskirt/skirt... It >looks very modest to me, especially when I put my nice new chemise under it. >I refer to the "nobility" version not the servant one with the off the >shoulder top... > It's much too curvy. I don't know why Simpolicity insists on putting those princess line seams with boning in the thing, as a flat fronted bodice with no seam would be more authentic AND easier to sew. A few other recommendations would be to skip the overlapping tied shoulder straps and just put a seam there, and to leave off the elastic casing along the arm of the chemise, also skip the "roman drapery"on the skirt. The hat is hopeless. I would not use this pattern for a noble costume, no matter what fabrics Simplicity chose to make it up in. the new court gown pattern is much closer. As I said before, I'll be writing up a critique and instructions for improving both this one and the new gown and adding them to my Website as soon as I can get to it. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 13:50:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20696 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:50:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29070; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:03:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28700 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:00:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28690 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:00:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA03157 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:01:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BDA63D.8066D284@serv.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:02:21 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! References: <00c401beeb3b$6c9ed920$1a34aec7@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > Ok, obviously everyone here hates the tavern look! ::grin:: Well. *laugh* Actually I think it's a really cute look when done well and with taste. I myself actually own a tavern wench bodice that I purchased at my second event. The bodice is well made and doesn't do the exposure thing. I have been known to wear it to our tavern events. Appropriate I think. I have made another bodice out of 4 different shades of velvet with velvet buttons I made to match. There are times when this is appropriate. :) Honest. Although I would now make a more period the chemise, make an overskirt and a partlet and a cap. > I'm curious as to the opinion of the list of the Simplicity pattern for > larger ladies ::ahem:: that is a bodice and overskirt/skirt... It > looks very modest to me, especially when I put my nice new chemise under it. > I refer to the "nobility" version not the servant one with the off the > shoulder top... This is pretty, nice, and modest. While not accurate, it suffices, especially for down and dirty quicky garb, newbie garb, etc. Trust me, it will be okay. I own the pattern but will probably lend it to newcomers. The reason I bought that bodice at my second event was I so positive that I would not be able to ever sew something so complicated and fitted. That was three years ago. Now I almost exclusively do fitted cotehardies and am starting to do the tablet woven edges and have been making my own buttons for some time now. I seriously underestimated myself in the beginning but that's okay. And I've made bodices etc.... Can't stop me now. *g* While I would prefer more accurate clothing personally, I think it is only detrimental to not allow folks to start off with whatever they can. I am not so much against the tavern wench look (although of course, there is so much out there that is accurate and sexy) it is the fact that no self respecting woman of any class in history until the 20th century would have let her bosom hang out like that. Never. Even poor and "available" tavern wenches would have had a more modest bodice. Now they might have loosened the laces etc... but nothing even close to our current blasphemy. *g* A tasteful and well dressed lady is always sexy and there's no need to go letting it all hang out. *trip* oh! didn't even know I got up on that box... Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 13:58:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20700 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:58:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00335; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:12:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00458 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:09:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00445 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:09:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990820190932.XRZD1639.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:09:32 -0700 Message-ID: <37BDA7F1.D879DA8F@home.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:09:37 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! References: <00c401beeb3b$6c9ed920$1a34aec7@oemcomputer> <37BDA63D.8066D284@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent I was told that the front laced bodice with an open attached skirt worn over a non-see through chemise and a plaide (sp?) was appropriate for certain periods of Celts. Is this not so? Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 13:58:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20704 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:58:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00526; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:13:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00649 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:10:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA00640 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:10:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990820191038.28113.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:10:38 PDT Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:10:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I LOVED it! While I changed some things, obviously, it is much easier to do this when you have a pattern that fits! Let me tell you I am tired beyond belief at the "made for a stick" patterns that would maybe fit my barbie! ;-) All in all a relatively simple pattern that I thought came out very well. Sarah > I'm curious as to the opinion of the list of the > Simplicity pattern for > larger ladies ::ahem:: that is a bodice and > overskirt/skirt... It > looks very modest to me, especially when I put my > nice new chemise under it. > I refer to the "nobility" version not the servant > one with the off the > shoulder top... > > Anya > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 14:02:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20716 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:02:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00976; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:16:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01164 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:13:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01158 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-33qsd0q.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.52.26]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA15595 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:13:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <019e01beeb40$029b0260$1a34aec7@oemcomputer> From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:12:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Toney To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 13:38 Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! > >-Poster: Sarah Toney > >Well, now, nothing beats the >chain-mail-bikini-with-nothing-under-it that we see at >Gen-Con. *sigh* And they wonder why they get hit >on... > >Sarah Ummm... that's popular at Texas Ren Festival, and from reports, Scarbourough Faire here in Ansteorra. Maybe they aren't quite to nothing under the mail, but it's very very close in some cases. Anya (Wondering if she should make up some terrycloth cloaks out of that cheap cheap bright pink fabric she saw at Hancock's on the close-out table yesterday to toss on these poor deluded {and usually sunburned, lol} girls...) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 14:10:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20725 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:10:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02099; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:23:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02757 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:21:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02751 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:21:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn22.pm3-6.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.241.163]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16322 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:21:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908201921.NAA16322@sight.vcn.com> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 13:04:11 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Um - well, this would be sort of an approximation of the de Heere (sp?) drawings, for the 15-1600's..... But first, saying "Celts" is like saying "African" and expecting everybody to look alike. There were Berbers, Egyptians, Zulu, etc - all with different dress, culture, etc. First decide if you're Scots, Irish, Welsh, Bretagne...... A chemise/shift/smock is UNDERWEAR. I don't think (YMMV) that a decent lady would have gone out with her chemise peeking through her skirt any more than you'd go out in public now with your slip hanging out of your dress - the color depictions I've seen from de Heere show the split skirt opening over a garment of color - another skirt, an undergown of some kind..... Liadain > I was told that the front laced bodice with an open attached skirt worn > over a non-see through chemise and a plaide (sp?) was appropriate for > certain periods of Celts. Is this not so? > > Kat > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 14:13:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20729 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:13:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02584; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:26:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03326 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:23:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03307 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:23:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-33qsd0q.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.52.26]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA17324 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:23:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01a901beeb41$80e44e00$1a34aec7@oemcomputer> From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:23:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" -----Original Message----- From: Margo Anderson To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 14:02 Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! > >-Poster: Margo Anderson >It's much too curvy. I don't know why Simpolicity insists on putting those >princess line seams with boning in the thing, as a flat fronted bodice with >no seam would be more authentic AND easier to sew. I just finished the skirt (the one without the pouffy thingy) and made the bodice last night (hee hee hee). Seeing as I had no clue what I was doing going into it, it turned out pretty spiffy. (Doncha just love us beginners?) As the boning love to turn rollies and randomly change the shape of my bosooms, I am interested in an iea on how to change it up a bit, without going tooooo off the pattern. (I can draft a simple pattern or follow a commercial.. but the skills haven't met in the middle yet.) I like having the ability to adjust the shoulders easier as I lose weight, so I'd like to leave the ties there in. But I would like ideas before I start another bodice tomorrow. I made a basic 4 square chemise instead of that thingy in the pattern. Also, any ideas on the Mens Simplicity pattern that looks kinda like Italian Ren? I may be screaming for help later when I try to draft the pants pattern for my hubs (he hates hose) > the new court gown pattern is much closer. Are you refering to the Elizabethan or another one? Thanks all... Anya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 14:17:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20738 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:17:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03465; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:31:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA04737 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:29:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04722 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:29:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-33qsd0q.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.52.26]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA16688 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:29:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01c301beeb42$44a9cc20$1a34aec7@oemcomputer> From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:29:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Toney To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 14:11 Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! > >-Poster: Sarah Toney > >I LOVED it! While I changed some things, obviously, >it is much easier to do this when you have a pattern >that fits! Let me tell you I am tired beyond belief >at the "made for a stick" patterns that would maybe >fit my barbie! ;-) > >All in all a relatively simple pattern that I thought >came out very well. > >Sarah > ::nods nods nods:: I'm a 15th century Russian and would LOVE to make the Elizabethan.. but it's largest size is a 20, and according to Simplicity (the small-sized minded) I'm a 32W (according to my blue jeans and brand new of the rack church dress, I'm a 24-26W). So I'm drooling on the patern package, waiting until I get the nerve up to try and slaughte... I mean resize the pattern... Anya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 14:28:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20759 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:28:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04538; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:41:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07002 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:38:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06983 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:38:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [166.70.12.186] (helo=[166.70.12.165]) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11HuUs-0000sv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:38:42 -0600 X-Sender: Francesca.da.Bari@pop.netaddress.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:50:13 -0600 To: Costume list From: Karalee Larsen Pugmire Subject: H-COST: 13th century pregnant women and nursing women Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Karalee Larsen Pugmire Hi, I have just learned some good news for myself. I'm pregnant. This is good except for one thing. I was about to make up some new 13th century garb for myself to be cut in a period way for the first time. (my SCA device should be passing soon and I thought it might be fun to have a cyclas with my arms on it). I now have a problem. I have only one picture with a pregnant woman from this period: an illustration in Alphonse the Wise's, *Cantigas* (13th century, at Madrid, Escorial Library). The pregnant woman in the series of pictures is wearing a cyclas over a cote. She is _very_ pregnant. I can't be certain so I'm asking. If anyone has seen this illo and can tell me if the gores would start under the arm pit instead of at the waist to have ease room for her large tummy. Also (since pregancy only lasts nine months and nursing at least a year) what was the period way of dressing in the 13th century if you were nursing? Did you have a slit down the front of your cote and cyclas to allow you nurse that way? Did you have to completely undress? (I hope not) Or did you wear a skirt and tunic? For this question I really haven't found any illustration to give me a clue. I'm sure there are several of you out there who've been throught this particular problem or have had friends go through it. I had a friend who used a princess line dress and put buttons down the front on each side. I'm not sure I liked the effect. Help. Please Francesca da Bari Cote du Ciel (Logan, Utah) Francesca.da.Bari _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 14:28:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20763 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:28:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04814; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:43:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07432 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:40:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy3.ba.best.com (root@proxy3.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07405; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:40:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy3.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id MAA08156; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:36:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BDAEA1.ED7A0799@best.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 12:38:09 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: GBACG Mailing List , Vintage Clothing Mailing List , h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Vintage dance in Palo Alto, CA--Costumes welcome Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press On Friday November 27, from 8 to 10 p.m., the Pomander Club will hold a ragtime and 1920s dance in Palo Alto. The Paul Price Society Orchestra will play one-steps, two-steps, cakewalks, fox trots, waltzes, tangos, maxixes, and Charlestons. (They sometimes also play specialty dances such as the grizzly bear and Varsity Drag.) Vintage dance masters Allan Terry and Frances Grimble will coordinate the evening and teach from 7 to 8. You do not need a partner to attend. Vintage and reproduction costumes are admired but not required. Admission is $10 ($18/couple). The dance will be held at: St. Mark's Episcopal Church 600 Colorado Avenue (between Middlefield and Byron) Palo Alto, CA The dance floor is excellent--plenty of room, and a good wooden surface. Seating is available for those who do not wish to dance. --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 14:29:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20767 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:29:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04881; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:43:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07590 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:40:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07580 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:40:40 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12896 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:40:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA16934 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:40:36 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:40:36 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! In-Reply-To: <01c301beeb42$44a9cc20$1a34aec7@oemcomputer> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Actually, the pattern, as always, lies. I made the largest size of the Ren costumes for a friend of mine that is rather large and it was too large for her! (She has a 40 chest and a 52 hip measurement). I bet you will fit in the largest size just fine and have to even take it in some. Remember what they taught us in Home Ec. about commercial patterns, they always add 2 inches all the way around to the paper pattern. No one knows why. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Fri, 20 Aug 1999, Chris and Trish Makowski wrote: > Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:29:05 -0500 > From: Chris and Trish Makowski > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! > > ::nods nods nods:: I'm a 15th century Russian and would LOVE to make the > Elizabethan.. but it's largest size is a 20, and according to Simplicity > (the small-sized minded) I'm a 32W (according to my blue jeans and brand new > of the rack church dress, I'm a 24-26W). So I'm drooling on the patern > package, waiting until I get the nerve up to try and slaughte... I mean > resize the pattern... > > Anya > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 14:49:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20776 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:49:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07999; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:03:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12628 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:55:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12597 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:55:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-33qsc9b.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.49.43]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA07136 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:55:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000e01beeb45$ee27a940$2b31aec7@oemcomputer> From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" To: Subject: H-COST: Simplicity Pattern sizing Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:51:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" -----Original Message----- From: ches@io.com To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 14:42 Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! > >-Poster: ches@io.com > >Actually, the pattern, as always, lies. I made the largest size of the Ren >costumes for a friend of mine that is rather large and it was too large >for her! (She has a 40 chest and a 52 hip measurement). > >I bet you will fit in the largest size just fine and have to even take it >in some. > >Remember what they taught us in Home Ec. about commercial patterns, they >always add 2 inches all the way around to the paper pattern. No one knows >why. > >Sincerely, >F. Havas >ches@io.com they must not apply that to the plus sized patterns, because every single one that I or my mom has tried to make make for me, including the bodice/skirt I just made, the size listed on the pattern as my size was WAYYYY to small.. Maybe they think that by sizing the larger patterns smaller it will help our self esteem?? Boy are they deluded if they think so. Anya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 14:57:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20782 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:57:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09383; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:11:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA15646 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:08:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15638 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:08:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA04440 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:09:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BDB62F.9F03F9AD@serv.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:10:23 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! References: <199908201921.NAA16322@sight.vcn.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > Um - well, this would be sort of an approximation of the de Heere (sp?) > drawings, for the 15-1600's..... Yes, that would be Lucas de Heere. > A chemise/shift/smock is UNDERWEAR. I don't think (YMMV) that a decent > lady > would have gone out with her chemise peeking through her skirt any more > than you'd > go out in public now with your slip hanging out of your dress This is absolutely correct. > - the color depictions I've > seen from de Heere show the split skirt opening over a garment of color - > another skirt, an undergown of some kind..... The drawing that Liadain refers to portrays a Scottish Merchant Class lady and a slightly higher class of lady. The Lady's skirt that is tucked into the belt is actually lined if I'm not mistaken. So you have the dark yellow outer layer, the red lining, and a green (?) underskirt. No white at all. Lots of color though. Her sleeves are tight matching the outer gown with little turned back cuffs. She wears a very trippy hat. She has a very modest neckline. The merchant lady's only part of the chemise that shows are the sleeves and a tiny bit around the neckline which is actually covered by a fichu type scarf. The bodice laces up the front and what looks like a stomacher for modesty under the laces. http://www.lepg.org/gallery.htm http://www.lepg.org/women.htm These two websites are great. Both from Le Poulet Gauche Lots of middle and lower class clothing from the 16th century. Lot's of bodices and skirt combos, great stuff. But no immodesty. Maybe these pictures will give you some ideas as to how you might take the Simplicity patterns and make them more accurate. Have a blast. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 14:58:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20786 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:58:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09687; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:12:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16030 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:10:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15661; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:08:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id NAA11031; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BDB587.82D3191@best.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:07:35 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: GBACG Mailing List , Historic Costume Mailing List , Vintage Clothing Mailing List Subject: H-COST: Vintage dance in Palo Alto Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press OK, so I stupidly copied an old message--the next dance is August 27 (next Friday) not November 27. Sorry! But we'll be there on time! The Pomander Club holiday season dance, incidentally, is the first Friday in December. The dances are usually on fourth Fridays of the month. However, the fourth Fridays of November and December fall directly on the Thanksgiving and Christmas holiday weekends--inconvenient days to hold or attend a dance. Fran Grimble --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 14:59:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20790 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:59:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09799; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:13:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16197 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:10:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA16188 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:10:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990820201422.2540.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:14:22 PDT Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:14:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney > Also, any ideas on the Mens Simplicity pattern that > looks kinda like Italian > Ren? I may be screaming for help later when I try to > draft the pants pattern > for my hubs (he hates hose) > I am mostly likely going to be crucified for this but here goes... I found that the McCalls (I think) Pirate pattern pants are quite easy to adapt... depending on what you are looking for... my boy won't even LOOK at hose, so he likes these.. Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 16:30:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21004 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:30:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04072; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:38:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA04161 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:38:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alchemyweb.greateralchemy.net ([209.186.228.137]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA04143 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:38:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ELEMENTAL (unverified [209.30.207.94]) by alchemyweb.greateralchemy.net (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:47:02 -0500 Received: by ELEMENTAL with Microsoft Mail id <01BEEB2A.6B917080@ELEMENTAL>; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:38:23 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEEB2A.6B917080@ELEMENTAL> From: Carrie Veenstra To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Pants -was:Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:28:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BEEB2A.6B9911A0" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carrie Veenstra ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEEB2A.6B9911A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I may be screaming for help later when I try to > draft the pants pattern > for my hubs (he hates hose) >=20 I am mostly likely going to be crucified for this but here goes... I found that the McCalls (I think) Pirate pattern pants are quite easy to adapt... depending on what you are looking for... my boy won't even LOOK at hose, so he likes these.. [Carrie Veenstra] I've had good luck with the technique of no-pattern = pants given here: http://www.unm.edu/~kballar/newcomer/pants.html These are baggies, and the easiest thing to get my newbies into ( 20th = century ren casual, we call it) I've also been able to ease some of the guys I sew for over to hose = (well, fancy cotton lycra tights) after a season or two of faire. ;-) I = have the best luck convincing them when their shirt, tunic or doublet = falls below crotch level by at least 3-4 inches. Haven't gotten anyone = to try the really high-hemmed Italian style doublet w/hose combo yet.=20 For Italian Ren, from what I've seen in paintings & such, the male = options are long gown and/or hose, sometimes knee-length TIGHT pants = over hose, or meeting the hose at the knee... Pants as modern males = tend to accept them just don't seem to fit the silhouette for that place = & time. Hopefully, someone on the list will point out that I'm wrong in = this, and tell me where else to go look ;-> Carrie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEEB2A.6B9911A0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhcVAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAoAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGgtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRy YS5jb20AU01UUABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAUAAAAaC1jb3N0dW1lQGluZHJhLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAWAAAA J2gtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRyYS5jb20nAAAAAgELMAEAAAAZAAAAU01UUDpILUNPU1RVTUVASU5EUkEu Q09NAAAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABQAAABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAIB 918BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGgtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRyYS5jb20AU01U UABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAAAAAMA/V8BAAAAAwD/XwAAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAC 2VQBBIABADMAAABSRTogSC1DT1NUOiAgUGFudHMgLXdhczpBYWFhZ2ghICBJdCdzIENlbHRpYyBS ZW5uIQAkDwEFgAMADgAAAM8HCAAUABAAHAAyAAUAVQEBIIADAA4AAADPBwgAFAAQAAoANAAFAEUB AQmAAQAhAAAAMTI3RDk3OTIwOTU3RDMxMThDMUEwMEEwMjQ5MDFBRjQA4AYBA5AGAMAIAAAhAAAA CwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5ACArbP5S 674BHgBwAAEAAAAzAAAAUkU6IEgtQ09TVDogIFBhbnRzIC13YXM6QWFhYWdoISAgSXQncyBDZWx0 aWMgUmVubiEAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG+61L+W5KXfRNXCRHTjBoAoCSQGvQAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAA AFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAaAAAAY2FycmllQGdyZWF0ZXJhbGNoZW15Lm5ldAAAAAMABhA6ytI/ AwAHEK0EAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABJTUFZQkVTQ1JFQU1JTkdGT1JIRUxQTEFURVJXSEVOSVRSWVRP RFJBRlRUSEVQQU5UU1BBVFRFUk5GT1JNWUhVQlMoSEVIQVRFU0hPU0UpSUFNTU9TVExZTElLRUxZ R09JTkdUAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAggUAAH4FAAANCAAATFpGdcSSR4UDAAoAcmNwZzEyNRYyAPgLYG4O EDAzM50B9yACpAPjAgBjaArAYHNldDAgBxMCgH2zCoAIyCA7CW8OMDUCgFkKgXVjAFALA2MAQXX0 bG4CIGULpwqxCoQLMPBsaTM2AUAVABYRA2CKdAWQdBYkIEkgAMAgeSBiZSAE8WVhMm0LgGcgAhAF wGhluGxwIAtgF7AFwHcZ0JMDoBhgdHIYoHRvFiTgPiBkcmEBgBrgGdD+IAqwAjAEIAqwAkAEkRtW RRmSbRigaHViBCAoTxxBEQAXsAQgaG8RMCl/G1YWKCA2GGAZMBhwHzB0NmwYoBbgaxngGKBnb38Z UhswGLIFABRwBpAIkGTvGYMcMAQAGLB1F+UZ0AlwayIxB5AuJVAgGFECEHUebiOAHDAaMBwjTWND nQdAbB5hGtEj8G5rH2X8UGkb4BewHMYcZQrAGNDYcXVpKGEZIHMbEiEgvGRhBTAlURYkAQBwCfDe ZBlSAiAacSZBeQhgKWP5CQBvaxlVJVIeAQbgGKBKdwIgJxflZXYaoUy4T09LISAFQB8iLBjg/yKw HEEh0gQgHDERMCr2MYuvFQIMMheFEWBbJtByCIFcIFYJ4SGAG+BdAzBi7QFAaRFgGFAnLzAesSOA byJABHAaEBRwaxpwKdBoOxwjF7FoAwApsBjQb2bKIBVgLSicZ2kvMiTCHjoxixVAGcACQHA6L5Qv dzsgLiXgbS4JgGB1L35rYibhCsAvvRWAdwWgB4A8UBxzLjqw7m0JUBVFMZlUMSIpYzwA/mc5AAeQ MDAAcCYCKfM/sbscEiJlZxFAHfI8cWI/sWYgC4AioSggAdA2sWO9CfB0CHAYoAlwA6BjKiB2dQdA MDB3IuEm4UJwdP8fZSC1NXIHQDBRGMAaoQGg/mw3ASKwKhEY0TyxN7IcMvhndXkEIBhgETAH4BmS /m8vMCPBMGEfMR5wRIAm8PUwMGYAcGMYoAWgAkAsEUshoAUAYRrgaWc6sHP+KSEgAYAaUUuwETAq ICwRfyOyLnA3skqgKDAxUBLALf9MMBhREQA1gRwyGMBA0TZD+QWgbnYLgCMwInIZ0CFA/xqDHDEo MBjgI/AAIDAwQ3D1AwBjTTJkCGBG8QVASqD/JvIYwAkAB+Ai8RegEPAaEPsvIQMgYhigJkFHACog BUB4My00QnEQ8CUxJYBI307RLpEiMRzxRsFuLJAVgH8ikhrzHEEZESbwHhFL4S33ULEHgCOASQGQ FuADkSGA5nlHAVKmdy9J4zyhBuBvLIARQCVwMYpGBbFZllL/CfBKgQNhLDQ1YxEwGqELgG8cYUKB GVEEICYY4BRwaK8wMBwjAMBHAW8FMGkCIC8pVAkAGWEiQHdXImQvXxmiMAUHgEvQB4JrFYBlDi1H AA8gNrFUSUdI/lQcZUljL/Qd0gngX5IcI+9J4yZFY+IlU1ApJAQgBGXvYMIw8SuhKlNjQ0AFMVCj /Gp1QNFSoFaSXtEhQCKh9yNQHBQAkGwfIApQHPEjlf8mQQtRQ0Bf4WOCViJhEAEQ/xVAIaBjJFdy LBEcMhbgQNH7A/BE0XAiUQVACGAcEl5T/1DRA2AZYV8hI+I/5UpRZjH/GnIk4RngPwFBYiKwLRJO Qbo+MYogM9QXPyBFX3g/V3lPek0WJEQisFksoVkiYR8gbyE/FiRCaf8jgEACETBE0RmSA1AJ4C+y mxT1OqZhFHBhMy55fDL+LjyhdrM9vxhAek+DH4Qv+3p/GCJUdOEZIE7jJAEAwP8DEBlScHIwMWnC h3IikgDA7moFsFKgBGBAC4Ab0YBTNxgENpcHgXM/gBjQVU4AU1VCU0NSSUICRVZALUNPU1RVLE1F FiQR8QCNwAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMIAjKnxQ674BQAAIMIAjKnxQ674B CwAAgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAASACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABS hQAAtw0AAB4ABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADAAaACCAGAAAA AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsAD4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAQ gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADABGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAA AAAAAAMAFIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgAkgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYA AAAANoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAA AAAeACaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6 IAAAAAADAA00/TcAABBB ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEEB2A.6B9911A0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 16:32:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21008 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:32:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04084; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:38:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA04195 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:38:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alchemyweb.greateralchemy.net ([209.186.228.137]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA04170 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:38:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ELEMENTAL (unverified [209.30.207.94]) by alchemyweb.greateralchemy.net (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:47:10 -0500 Received: by ELEMENTAL with Microsoft Mail id <01BEEB2A.700CE680@ELEMENTAL>; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:38:31 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEEB2A.700CE680@ELEMENTAL> From: Carrie Veenstra To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:30:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BEEB2A.70160E40" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carrie Veenstra ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEEB2A.70160E40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >>-Poster: Sarah Toney >Well, now, nothing beats the >chain-mail-bikini-with-nothing-under-it that we see at Ummm... that's popular at Texas Ren Festival, and from reports, = Scarbourough Faire here in Ansteorra. Maybe they aren't quite to nothing under = the mail, but it's very very close in some cases. Anya [Carrie Veenstra] no, no... I've seen it at TRF and Scarbourough.. some = of them are definitely without anything but metal on.. though the = chain-mail mesh cups look much more uncomfortable than the hammered = metal-set-into chain straps, I bet both are darn hot in the wrong = places, and leave very odd sunburn lines! My favorite faire patron = costume is the 'three bunnies and a thong' Barbarianess combo -- three = rabbit furs and a bit of leather thong to tie them together (almost) = over the appropriate areas. But more seriously, several people keep commenting on the curved bodice = lines that continue to show up in the simplicity patterns -- simple, = really. it takes a bit of exposure to accustom the modern fashion eye = to accept the straight lines and angles of Elizabethan as attractive OR = comfortable. Curved seams also imply a better fit to the novice or = non-sewer. =20 On to convincing that corsets and farthingales are necessary and = appropriate -- When I first started enjoying ren faires 10 years or so = ago, I made a bedsheet chemise, a skirt, and an un-boned bodice ( bad, = bad idea-- never wore it), wore my everyday brassiere underneath...point = being that sillouette and foundation garments are the most pervasive = parts of any era's 'dress code'. They are resisted for almost the same = reasons that they are needed! Also, modern conditioning toward single = or two layered dressing has to be overcome, and especially here in sunny = Texas, the idea that 1-2 layers of polyester should somehow be cooler = than 3-5 layers of cotton & linen( I'm not yet brave enough to venture = into the wool arena, but am getting there). Then there's the satire and general bad press that similar underthings = have undergone in the modern era -- everything from victorian horror = stories involving the corsets to "Gone with the Wind", fighting hoops = and corset both.. the Bondage and fetish associations with laced = undergarments... The way I see it, though not the simplicity patterns are a good thing = for beginners and their families to have access to at the corner fabric = shop -- you don't have to get very deep into it anymore to find the = Folkwear, MM etc. patterns, and even wonderful books (every Ren & Med = faire i've been to in the past 6 years has had a shop selling this = stuff).. While I wish the mainstream companies would emphasize natural = content fibers and perhaps present a little more history, I don't = begrudge their points of inauthenticity. To them, it is after all, a = costume. Carrie=20 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEEB2A.70160E40 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+Ih8VAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAoAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGgtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRy YS5jb20AU01UUABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAUAAAAaC1jb3N0dW1lQGluZHJhLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAWAAAA J2gtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRyYS5jb20nAAAAAgELMAEAAAAZAAAAU01UUDpILUNPU1RVTUVASU5EUkEu Q09NAAAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABQAAABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAIB 918BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGgtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRyYS5jb20AU01U UABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAAAAAMA/V8BAAAAAwD/XwAAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAC 2VQBBIABACcAAABSRTogSC1DT1NUOiBBYWFhZ2ghICBJdCdzIENlbHRpYyBSZW5uIQAsCwEFgAMA DgAAAM8HCAAUABAAHgADAAUAKAEBIIADAA4AAADPBwgAFAAOABEAHwAFADUBAQmAAQAhAAAAMTA3 RDk3OTIwOTU3RDMxMThDMUEwMEEwMjQ5MDFBRjQA3gYBA5AGACAMAAAhAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMA AAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AGARKSpT674BHgBwAAEAAAAn AAAAUkU6IEgtQ09TVDogQWFhYWdoISAgSXQncyBDZWx0aWMgUmVubiEAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG+ 61MqKZKXfRZXCRHTjBoAoCSQGvQAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAaAAAAY2Fy cmllQGdyZWF0ZXJhbGNoZW15Lm5ldAAAAAMABhCbmRmgAwAHEEYJAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAAAtUE9T VEVSOlNBUkFIVE9ORVk8U0FSQUhBTkRQT09IQFlBSE9PQ09NV0VMTCxOT1csTk9USElOR0JFQVRT VEhFQ0hBSU4tTUFJTC1CSUtJTkktV0lUSC1OT1RISU5HLVVOREVSAAAAAAIBCRABAAAA7ggAAOoI AAAdDQAATFpGdaFJM+sDAAoAcmNwZzEyNRYyAPgLYG4OEDAzM50B9yACpAPjAgBjaArAYHNldDAg BxMCgH2zCoAIyCA7CW8OMDUCgBkKgXVjAFALA2xpM6I2AUB1bG4CIGUKoHUDYHQFkHQLpwqxCoA+ ID4tUG9zFgByOkEGAXJhaCBUFZF5KCA8cxfiXwBwZF/AcG9vaEB5GAAZUBIuBaBtPhbFV2VsKGws IBWAdxridGiBC4BnIGJlYXQEIN8bcBWxFuMQ8QuALQDAAxCQLWJpawuAaS0D8GUbcC0bVS11GRAE kC2HHgAcIRvwIHdlIBEwjx+wG/AWxCA/ClVtIcC2LiHwH0MnBCAZQHAVYEMKwR9xVGV4YQQgUokJ 8CBGB5B0aXYHQOsa4BkBIANSIAlwGUAAIPJzGuBTYwrABuAIcAhgzGdoFsQYkHA+I+ALcP0JcCAc QCdRC4ARcACAFgDHBbAX8CIQTWF5G9AcIpcYcArACfAnBUBxdR4AfSjxbxtHHsMcKB0yGuBi7nUF QB4AInF2BJAYcCzD7mMJABEwJ8JzA3AfsCXA+REwcy4WxCgAGZAgnwqQnmMAQQwyFdURYFtDCsC5 CIEgVgnhF3AX8F0DMHpiAUBpEWAa8RriIfJJPicswB/CA6AfISMiUkbPJIMluiIBLfNvZhwiJQDd KWEgAQEdsRYAbBhwHfL/CGA0cS8QG3UsQQeAAZADIH8CICIDJjIcIi1QHOc5MXMxGBBjdXAEIAkA b2v/OTAUcBgQBGAnUR7AGfECEPsAIAGgbCjyA5E6YhEAIcD3J5EksDlDLRExHxACMCpA3xzTH8Ay UTvAGuBJG8EFQP8G4BtwNvQKwAOgGbAsUT307ncDYBuhC1FjB5AkdD2Q3mEz4SzDBHAksHMewCww pwShFQAVoHMhMwBNGHD+ZkPgBbAp8kXgJ0IKsDJQ9wIgLVAXYXUuEQQAOlMpoHZoCdEsIW4DAAeR JJJh6zniDyAnMwBCJdEKwAcwj0VRBCAZ8QbgIC0tHCHbSGIX8GIdgAVAZghwSQb/S/I2gUPBHDEr IkLCKjEkILco8yUAKjBnEUBNkigHQPsEYBdwKTZwLME6U0BgFdF/FdAHMCoBKWEjgC6VFsRC3zkS PKIRMAUQCGBzN8Aa4HcRMCzBOXFwKEALUB+wa/0J4HBKwgeAAjAbkkcROmPvCHAswCSwBuBkDeAf sEUz/x9EBaBVUgpQKiI7cBsQKtD/VOBCNR/AB3ALUA3gHgAYcN9G0ReBBjFLMVlkZRrgUXH9GsB5 IhA0UgGQVLBJAUzW/yNgGUBEsCdRKiIA0DugF3D/JPE6YgRlReA7cFNAA6AYYL8qE13xJTAfMh+x MlFpJlB/BUBXBEkjDyA9kAQgNoFF/RUAegGgTyEDkSOBWjEX8OcWICQwH7BPUkrCPTZb0d5DVjQR MD5gSQFsLfAnwP9ZkSlBQMIXgSTAHyJOQTpxfRWAdlbCBbEVgT8xH6By+1vRL0pPPfE/sQIgaDA8 8P8bkldlESJJBEXgACAbggdA/0jyXYIVoEMxGKEpQUkyULn9WrJXHEADoECwN2ARIAVAjxdwbGE+ sQnwam95G5LvKXFGZAQgD0AgX8AREWhy+WZBYWczMUCwAMABAGbD/mQ7cAngV5E2wQQAW0FJYP5z HaAAICR0A5EewB1wFZH9VncoG8BzUCwRc1AnwAEAbmFLMRWgUCJ3PKIeACnbGuB4U20YcFPSeUGg GHD+YhfwBBAIkTzCBIJNYiHx/xlAP4EbwWsHAJAawAhgZwK/JIQIYBkQG/BfcmzAclUy/20EXoRv 8VRAVkAjgGQCCrE/HAE2gThxXRAX8CJxJ2TXcaFKsgEAJ1vRVCklJRH/AJAXcX1SIwFPo2CEPmCC sv8jgAIgV0UpFm1hCYAJgEWB/kFmMRrgBGVXsVawfdJrA98bEAsRWWFiEmhydHhQO+D/KMA+k4Fj G5IRABwRKkAo4f9QEhnxdKIkoQeQVEBZ0FuS/yd3RLGAwSNTGuA6U3eCH0T4MS0yiXRiUxlAN8Ak Af8rEVhxFWBEkS4BWIIo4QWgxwbwKxMDkTMtNY85BaDrAkBHESZFI2520DPAJQD/G1FyAUDxF/Az 4QnwOhQqQH8swAIwXXI/g0JjkbEpU2G/LBQ+YH4QZwFrBCeRKVG7/4JBPfMJcCJxhBQkICdRJJL/ TxAVoFQCd0IV0EqSfDV0cP8i4h7DG3MEIBEAM+Eew3Lg/xWgQiYEZVPxSyJ5cxt0JNP/LLAN4Cow SlJB4ShgcnKh4vcHkQuARgBsasGYo2uHKjFcIkefEh3yOlNXC4Bk/iIa4DdgYSGKUxlQO8Ekku9r lEEDIgNZQUKHcXLQfRXvEUAEAEFBBBBvjFF90gQg/6UzQxIksJ60fjUh8S9PmeL/H5B50UCwH9Ie ABrgOfWUgv9gk1mPbQRJYHLgBHAcIaET+wWxG9BnC4Cb0UkEHDEnQP9F0Z1BSOIqMZ5jYCKcol3R /2B0BaGb0UXRegAN4FhiVOD9SzF5CGA3MAIgKaGeYyox/08RLLQBAFTRP4M0Yi8QPJPfKjE3YbLD I+AG8GsfoArAyRrgTU1dEHRjW9FaJv+LtZYBeEEe0kwwnBE8AQQgb09weXMjo5OwTYMyJzNpfzPS G9CaEmZRPfQKsG/xNv9yBYqSEQBJQrZDETAawGsE/0fBR2EBIJkQIhBvUAMQH7D/QLAD8TpEczEL gDJBZdFKwt8KsEjTeFCQsjbQcIqRYsD/Z/Eb8AhwOXFXslVBZ1Eb0P9MVX+BEQA7wZxyx/JJYBUA /wJAPZE8k8LxoeFTkUCwtwTxsgFydWSo4bLke3NiU/0LgGEsQG9hJCBZ0oISZ7PubRrgHyFHwWEB gCsRW5H/dLJHRVG7MZUwYRaxFeUW0/wgX9Mf1C/VP9Yb0qXOcf9DxMLjHTIbkhUAF3BToiShPzsD KjEAwHDACyADcG9A/6XRKHEZ8dKlpTcHgRigqOEAVU5TVUJTQ1IASUJFIEgtQ09gU1RVTUUWxBHx AAHewAAAAwAQEAIAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMGCTfqZA674BQAAIMGCTfqZA674BCwAA gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAASACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAA tw0AAB4ABYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADAAaACCAGAAAAAADA AAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsAD4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAQgAgg BgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADABGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAA AAMAFIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgAkgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAA NoUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAe ACaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAA AAADAA00/TcAAN2h ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEEB2A.70160E40-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 16:33:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21012 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:33:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04888; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:43:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA29220 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:15:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29197 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990820211459.ZCCH1639.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:14:59 -0700 Message-ID: <37BDC558.6A133C8C@home.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:15:04 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! References: <199908201921.NAA16322@sight.vcn.com> <37BDB62F.9F03F9AD@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent What about prior to the 16th C? Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 16:33:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21016 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:33:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05149; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:44:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23196 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:45:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23173 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:45:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.187] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11HvXK-0003he-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:45:18 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:44:32 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! In-Reply-To: <019e01beeb40$029b0260$1a34aec7@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" On 8/20/99, Anya "Chris and Trish Makowski" wrote: Ummm... that's popular at Texas Ren Festival, and from reports, Scarbourough Faire here in Ansteorra. Maybe they aren't quite to nothing under the mail, but it's very very close in some cases. Anya I love the hot pink terrycloth cloak thought. Is the fabric Medieval/earlier in origin, though? I know the color is. Nothing quite beats the pair I saw at an SCA West-AnTir War about 4 yrs. back. The woman, petite, very dark olive skin and black hair, in fur bikini, doing just fine. Her escort, a lobster-burned pale blonde in a fur breech-clout [thong style, yet], boots, and spear. Ouch...all the way around. I have never wished to wear that kind of thing, but I surely wouldn't have put myself in his place--nor even vicinity--for the next week--or three. cjc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 16:34:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21020 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:34:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05214; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:44:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21890 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:38:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21865 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:38:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA14636 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:38:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-177.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.177]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA26734 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:38:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005b01beeb4c$9b4e62c0$a889fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:43:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Anya, Just a suggestion... Are you looking at their measurements for the size? Or are you checking the garments measurements? There should be two on the pattern envelope. The finished garment measurement might be more useful to you, especially with, for example, a bodice. Michelle - >::nods nods nods:: I'm a 15th century Russian and would LOVE to make the >Elizabethan.. but it's largest size is a 20, and according to Simplicity >(the small-sized minded) I'm a 32W (according to my blue jeans and brand new >of the rack church dress, I'm a 24-26W). So I'm drooling on the patern >package, waiting until I get the nerve up to try and slaughte... I mean >resize the pattern... > >Anya > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 16:36:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21024 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:36:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04953; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:43:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24150 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:50:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24144 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:50:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA18922 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:50:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-177.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.177]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA03935 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006001beeb4e$3e0f0220$a889fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: 13th century pregnant women and nursing women Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:54:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" I can't be a source for absolute authenticy but, I can tell you what I did for my pregnancy and breastfeeding. I wore this to Elizabethan and Tudor events. I made a surcote with a tie on (apron-like) underskirt. I tied the false skirt on over the baby, almost up as high as just under my breast. The baby held it up. For a chemise, I used the (Folkwear) prairie dress pattern without the yolk, which has 3 panels to complete each side (front and back). The two seams in the front I stiched so that they were permanently open about 9 inches down from the top. (the openning I made about 8 inches long and it worked well) When it was time to feed, I am able to lift the front of the surcote, reach into the opening of the chemise and just move the fabric out of the way for baby. The bulk of the fabric and baby covered what I didn't want others to see. (I also cheated and used a nursing bra underneath.) Michelle >Also (since pregancy only lasts nine months and nursing at least a year) >what was the period way of dressing in the 13th century if you were >nursing? Did you have a slit down the front of your cote and cyclas to >allow you nurse that way? Did you have to completely undress? (I hope not) >Or did you wear a skirt and tunic? For this question I really haven't found >any illustration to give me a clue. > >I'm sure there are several of you out there who've been throught this >particular problem or have had friends go through it. I had a friend who >used a princess line dress and put buttons down the front on each side. I'm >not sure I liked the effect. > >Help. Please > >Francesca da Bari >Cote du Ciel (Logan, Utah) >Francesca.da.Bari > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 16:38:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21028 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:38:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05754; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:46:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21949 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:39:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21944 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:39:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA05068 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BDBD56.770EB27F@serv.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 13:40:54 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 13th century pregnant women and nursing women References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > I have just learned some good news for myself. I'm pregnant. Congratulations! > Also (since pregancy only lasts nine months and nursing at least a year) > what was the period way of dressing in the 13th century if you were > nursing? Did you have a slit down the front of your cote and cyclas to > allow you nurse that way? Did you have to completely undress? (I hope not) > Or did you wear a skirt and tunic? For this question I really haven't found > any illustration to give me a clue. This is my first thought... I would put some nursing slits in the under dress along a princess seam that could be closed with a flap and maybe velcro. Put the flap so that it goes on the inside and with the velcro you would have a fairly hidden seam. Or some kind of front opening gown. Use the Cyclas for modesty. Put the child under the cyclas, open up and go... The cyclas wouldn't need to be slit since it is already open on the sides. I suspect you will have to consider this your maternity and nursing gown and not expect to wear it at other times. As for gores. I would start them at the underarm. Definitely. And maybe add lacing so that you can let it out as you go. And then let it in as you go after the birth. > I'm sure there are several of you out there who've been throught this > particular problem or have had friends go through it. I had a friend who > used a princess line dress and put buttons down the front on each side. I'm > not sure I liked the effect. It seems like this would call attention to it all. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 16:39:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21032 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:39:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06011; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:48:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA06435 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:48:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06427 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:48:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn43.pm3-3.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.162]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20939 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:48:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908202148.PAA20939@sight.vcn.com> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 15:31:31 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Are we still talking Irish/Scots/Welsh/whoever clothing? Liadain, her Train of Thought Derailed.... ---------- > > What about prior to the 16th C? > > Kat > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 16:43:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21039 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:43:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06859; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:54:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA07686 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:53:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07675 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:53:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA06647 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:55:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BDCEDF.D1E4BA02@serv.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:55:44 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! References: <199908201921.NAA16322@sight.vcn.com> <37BDB62F.9F03F9AD@serv.net> <37BDC558.6A133C8C@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > What about prior to the 16th C? Can you be more specific? I'm not sure what exactly you're asking. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 16:46:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21043 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:46:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07421; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:57:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA08573 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:57:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08564 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:57:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p41.directcon.net [206.170.184.90]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09695 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:57:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908202157.OAA09695@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >I just finished the skirt (the one without the pouffy thingy) and made the >bodice last night (hee hee hee). Seeing as I had no clue what I was doing >going into it, it turned out pretty spiffy. (Doncha just love us beginners?) >As the boning love to turn rollies and randomly change the shape of my >bosooms, I am interested in an iea on how to change it up a bit, without >going tooooo off the pattern. (I can draft a simple pattern or follow a >commercial.. but the skills haven't met in the middle yet.) The following method may or may not work, it depends quite a bit on just how buxom the wearer is and how...well...*squishy* the bust is. Anyway, take the bodice center front piece and the side front peice, and but them together so that the start and end of the seam lines match. Depending on the size, you may need to trim off a bit at the top of the armhole to make them match up. The curve of the side piece will overlap the center piece, ignore it. t Tape the two peices together, and voila, you have a one peice front pattern. The fit should be very snug, aproximately like a pair of fashionably tight jeans (Are tight jeans still fashionable?) otherwise the bodice won't be able to support you and your bust will fall down inside. For lower class, I usually find that I don't need boning except at the center fronts to keep the laces from crumpling, but some ladies like to run one on each side on the diagonal, aproximately from the armhole notch to the center waist front. It's a "quick and dirty method, but it may work. Good luck! Margo Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 16:48:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21047 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:48:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07855; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:00:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA09201 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:00:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09185 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:00:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p41.directcon.net [206.170.184.90]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09971 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 14:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908202159.OAA09971@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson but it's largest size is a 20, and according to Simplicity >(the small-sized minded) I'm a 32W (according to my blue jeans and brand new >of the rack church dress, I'm a 24-26W). Take the pattern out of the envelope and look at, and maybe measure the pices. these things are HUGE! I bought the larger size range according to the directions, planning to make it up as a "Not this Way" demo for my classes, and it was way too big...and I'm a size 24-26, too. Margo Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 16:52:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21053 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:52:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08419; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:04:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA10046 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:04:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.mindspring.com (smtp4.mindspring.com [207.69.200.64]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10037 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:04:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-33qscae.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.49.78]) by smtp4.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA27874 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:04:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002601beeb57$efb744c0$4e31aec7@oemcomputer> From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:04:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" -----Original Message----- From: Michelle To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 16:47 Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! > >-Poster: "Michelle" > >Anya, > >Just a suggestion... Are you looking at their measurements for the size? >Or are you checking the garments measurements? There should be two on the >pattern envelope. The finished garment measurement might be more useful to >you, especially with, for example, a bodice. > Michelle >- When I refer to the small sizedness of the Simplicity patterns, I'm reffering to the fact the they believe a 52 inch bust is a 32, when if I go to Wal-mart and get a cheep blouse that same 52 inch bust fits quite nicely in a 26. And I did have to make the size 32 bodice. When I muslined our the 28 it was very much too small. As for finished garment measurements, I'm not really sure how that would apply to the human body. Can someone explain how that translates? A good example is the shirt and tunic I'm about to make for Chris: the tunic pattern has the following finishe garment measurements listed on it: bust: 54 inches waist: 55 hips: 58 1/2 If that's equivalent to measurement around, then I might not have to fudge it a little bigger. Anya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 17:03:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21068 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:03:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10283; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:15:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA12627 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:15:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from isomedia.com (IDENT:root@watson.isomedia.com [207.149.221.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12615 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:15:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wingate (pm642.isomedia.com [209.102.115.107]) by isomedia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA00685 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:15:26 -0700 From: "Wylie & Gail" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:14:42 -0700 Message-ID: <001601beeb59$7215ca80$0100a8c0@apsconsulting.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990820112643.009a4220@mail.stockgroup.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Wylie & Gail" Do let us me know privately if you plan to do that get-together. I know Merouda, and I'd love to join you guys on a fun-filled day of fabric shopping for silks.... ~Meryld AKA Gail >Hey Merouda... you ever make it up to Vancouver? I'm trying >to get some >people together to do a fabric >run through Little India and Dressew's some saturday and then >spend the >rest of saturday and sunday >making garb :) > >Charlotte Madeleine de Courseilles > >mka Karla Sexsmith >in the Barony of Lion's Gate >Kingdom of An Tir >mka Vancouver BC Canada _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 17:24:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21098 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:24:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13519; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:36:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA16845 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:36:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16829 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:36:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990820223629.ZZFH1639.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 15:36:29 -0700 Message-ID: <37BDD872.E8F07703@home.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:36:34 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! References: <199908201921.NAA16322@sight.vcn.com> <37BDB62F.9F03F9AD@serv.net> <37BDC558.6A133C8C@home.com> <37BDCEDF.D1E4BA02@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Merouda the True of Bornover wrote: > > > What about prior to the 16th C? > > Can you be more specific? I'm not sure what exactly you're asking. You seem to say that this outfit was never worn by anyone but modern re-enactors but then quote 16th C citations. Is there any evidence pro or con for it being worn prior to that time? As I said, I was given to understand by several persons who had Scots or Irish personas and who were not adverse to research that the frontlaced bodice top with the split skirt attached was worn by women sometime between 650 and 1650. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 17:42:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21108 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:42:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15581; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:54:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20276 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:54:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20264 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:54:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn36.pm3-8.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.249.45]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05648 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:54:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908202254.QAA05648@sight.vcn.com> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 16:37:23 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" There seems to be very little concrete info on Irish/Scots clothing prior to the assorted English invasions, and even less on women - women were not often portrayed in stone carvings (crosses, etc) and manuscripts that give us the little we know of early period - most written descriptions are of leines (a tunic sort of thing, possibly with or without sleeves) ionars (variously described jacket-sorts of things) and brats, a big fancy cloak thing (I'll leave better descriptions to the experts to fight over). Layers, many colors, and lavish decoration were all apparently popular - the "if you've got it, flaunt it" school of thought. There are also written descriptions of Irish women having nothing BUT a brat to wear, but most of these are from Anglo-Norman sources, so should be taken with a grain of salt. To the best of my admittedly limited knowledge (McClintock, Dunleavy, assorted manuscripts) the laced-gown outfit is comtemporary with late Tudor/Elizabethan fashion - best bet, from about 1550 on. There are some webpages with images, but my puter-crash ate all my bookmakrs - does anyone else have them on hand? Liadain > You seem to say that this outfit was never worn by anyone but modern > re-enactors but then quote 16th C citations. Is there any evidence pro > or con for it being worn prior to that time? As I said, I was given to > understand by several persons who had Scots or Irish personas and who > were not adverse to research that the frontlaced bodice top with the > split skirt attached was worn by women sometime between 650 and 1650. > > Kat > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 17:47:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21122 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:47:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15990; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:59:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21101 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:59:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21088 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:58:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EJHHKBJG; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:56:45 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Message-ID: <19990820.143636.4791.0.cley@juno.com> References: <4.1.19990819153105.0369e410@mail.canfield.com> <4.2.0.58.19990820112643.009a4220@mail.stockgroup.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4,8-9,12-13,15-19 From: cynthia j ley Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:56:45 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: cynthia j ley IMHO, the tavern wench look works on those that have the figures and the upper body for it, but it's not particularly historical. Plus, in the SCA, as you act, so you are treated! Project "wench," and don't be surprised. What's wrong with doing some easy things like T-tunics and surcoats and houppelands for starters? They're simple to sew (even if you're stuck doing it by hand), easy to embellish, easy to accessorize, easy and comfortable to wear, look right, and are generally flattering. I'm not coming at this from the standpoint of a costumer--I'm coming at this from the standpoint of someone aiming for a period look. Education can come later. No excuse for not learning, on this list! ;) Gads, even ladies' Italian Ren shows a bit of decollatage, but not *that* much! Arlys ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 18:01:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21135 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:01:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17576; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:13:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA23677 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:12:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23668 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:12:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA08367 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BDE162.8F8C7AFC@serv.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:14:42 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! References: <199908201921.NAA16322@sight.vcn.com> <37BDB62F.9F03F9AD@serv.net> <37BDC558.6A133C8C@home.com> <37BDCEDF.D1E4BA02@serv.net> <37BDD872.E8F07703@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > You seem to say that this outfit was never worn by anyone but modern > re-enactors but then quote 16th C citations. Is there any evidence pro > or con for it being worn prior to that time? As I said, I was given to > understand by several persons who had Scots or Irish personas and who > were not adverse to research that the frontlaced bodice top with the > split skirt attached was worn by women sometime between 650 and 1650. What I said is that the tavern wench outfit was never worn. That there are some extant pictures from the late 1500-1600's of women from Scotland and England wearing something that could be adulterated into a tavern wench or the celtic outfit. There is evidence of some split skirts, but none worn split over underwear. There is evidence of boned bodices but none that lace loosely up the front with huge brass grommets. That all bodices, no matter what the class, covered the bosom and never left the breasts hanging over the top as many modern players do. The "costume" is simply a costume designed by a costumer familiar with some extant documentation. The "costume" is not accurate or authentic. *BUT* if you are interested in making it more accurate and authentic I gave websites for pictures that might assist one in doing so. I never stated that these were or weren't worn 650 - 1650 as a year. I believe I said (darn it wouldn't you know I just cleaned my sent folder out) mid - 1500 to early 1600's. To describe a garment simply by saying that it has a split skirt and a laced bodice is not much a of description. Without the other details, you can't say. Please refer to my more detailed post. I suspect that your friends are right and that they have researched but details are *extremely* important when determining accuracy. Yes? Hope that clarifies, Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 18:08:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21139 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:08:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18495; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:20:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA25661 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:20:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25652 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:20:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990820232036.JWZ1639.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:20:36 -0700 Message-ID: <37BDE2C9.19D68811@home.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:20:41 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! References: <199908201921.NAA16322@sight.vcn.com> <37BDB62F.9F03F9AD@serv.net> <37BDC558.6A133C8C@home.com> <37BDCEDF.D1E4BA02@serv.net> <37BDD872.E8F07703@home.com> <37BDE162.8F8C7AFC@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Ah, I hadn't realized that 'wench' referred to those whose bodices act more like a cupless bra! I was referring to the new Simplicity pattern which is *not* built like that (although they show it laced too loosely in the picture). Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 18:18:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21149 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:18:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19401; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:30:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA27437 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:29:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27431 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:29:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990820232951.LZE1639.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:29:51 -0700 Message-ID: <37BDE4F3.2AD65BA8@home.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:29:55 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 13th century pregnant women and nursing women References: <006001beeb4e$3e0f0220$a889fea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent When I was pregnant, I wore t-tunics belted high or under the belly depending on which felt better at the moment! For my chemise, I went ahead and made one based on a nightgown pattern from Elizabeth Lee Designs which has nursing slits in it (basically, I left off the yoke and put in a casing). I nursed wearing that chemise under cotehardies and frontlaced dresses. I also made a t-tunic with an overlay that had nursing slits under it as well as a t-tunic which had trim running from just below the waist and over the shoulders in just the 'right' position which concealed the nursing slits (I used hooks & eyes to keep them from flying open when they weren't needed). The Laurel of our household wore cotehardies with a gates of hell over it and just undid the cotehardie and nursed the babe under the surcote. I was still nursing our toddler at the TN Ren Faire before last and wore frontlaced dresses and a nursing chemise which made me feel more comfortable. I also had one cotehardie which had hooks & eyes down the seams running over the breasts but I found I liked the front lace and nursing chemise best unless it was cold when I would throw on the flannel t-tunic. Oh, and during pregnancy another option I used was to wear a skirt & t-tunic with the skirt just under my breasts although I suppose one could lay it across the belly or under the belly depending on comfort. Look for pictures of Madonna nursing the Christ child for other nursing ideas. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 18:19:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21153 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:18:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19490; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:31:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA27787 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:30:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27767 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:30:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA08671 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BDE59E.CA4D922D@serv.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:32:46 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! References: <199908201921.NAA16322@sight.vcn.com> <37BDB62F.9F03F9AD@serv.net> <37BDC558.6A133C8C@home.com> <37BDCEDF.D1E4BA02@serv.net> <37BDD872.E8F07703@home.com> <37BDE162.8F8C7AFC@serv.net> <37BDE2C9.19D68811@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > Ah, I hadn't realized that 'wench' referred to those whose bodices act > more like a cupless bra! I was referring to the new Simplicity pattern > which is *not* built like that (although they show it laced too loosely > in the picture). We were discussing both actually. :) Neither look is accurate, but the Simplicity pattern is good enough, especially for a beginner. We also discussing ways to improve that were easy to do. :) Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 18:20:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21159 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:20:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19650; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:32:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA27958 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:32:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27948 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:32:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gia-g (dialup328.serv.net [207.207.70.221]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA05155 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00d901beeb64$5830c240$dd46cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:32:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Merouda et al: Me too! My mistress took me to the silk district last fall and I had a blast...though it was a day that most of them were closed. I can imagine what a trip it'd be if I went when all of them are open! And did you all know that a great exhibit is happening at the Vancuover BC museum...I think it's 5 centuries of portraits? ends in Sept...26th? I see the posters around and want to go take a gander at what they've got...Has anyone on this liste been? What say you? Gia/Giacinta -----Original Message----- From: Wylie & Gail To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 3:19 PM Subject: RE: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! > >-Poster: "Wylie & Gail" > >Do let us me know privately if you plan to do that get-together. I know >Merouda, and I'd love to join you guys on a fun-filled day of fabric >shopping for silks.... > >~Meryld >AKA Gail > >>Hey Merouda... you ever make it up to Vancouver? I'm trying >>to get some >>people together to do a fabric >>run through Little India and Dressew's some saturday and then >>spend the >>rest of saturday and sunday >>making garb :) >> >>Charlotte Madeleine de Courseilles >> >>mka Karla Sexsmith >>in the Barony of Lion's Gate >>Kingdom of An Tir >>mka Vancouver BC Canada > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 18:29:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21166 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:29:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20235; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:41:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29249 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:41:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29240 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:41:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA08878 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BDE806.742D27F4@serv.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:43:03 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! References: <00d901beeb64$5830c240$dd46cfcf@gia-g> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > Me too! My mistress took me to the silk district last fall and I had a > blast...though it was a day that most of them were closed. I can imagine > what a trip it'd be if I went when all of them are open! Charlotte and I already "talked" this morning and we're looking at mid Oct or mid November. Any earlier would be brutal. And I am looking at making a weekend of it not a day trip. But for all interested, lets get a list of names and then take it privately. :) We'll figure something out. Merouda / Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 18:31:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21172 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:31:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20437; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:43:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29539 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:43:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29532 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:43:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-33qse0l.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.56.21]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA25371 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:43:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004101beeb65$c55d4180$1538aec7@oemcomputer> From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:42:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" -----Original Message----- From: Merouda the True of Bornover To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 18:31 Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > >We were discussing both actually. :) Neither look is accurate, but the >Simplicity pattern is good enough, especially for a beginner. We also >discussing ways to improve that were easy to do. :) > >Cynthia I pulled out my pattern from last night when I made the bodice, and compared it to the Elizabethan bodice... it looks like they are about the same size. Margo was right, large ladies prob won't have to adjust much to make it fit if you are about a 24-26. Has there been a consensus yet on what to do about the sleeves and bodice bottom edge on the Elizabethan yet? Also, the "chemise" on it is basically a dicky. Are any of you 9especially those in the hotter areas) going to leave it like that, or are you going to make a full chemise? Anya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 18:34:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21176 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:34:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20848; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:47:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA00166 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:46:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00159 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:46:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA08987 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37BDE957.6313A54B@serv.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 16:48:39 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume Subject: H-COST: Workwoman's Guide Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover I just checked out a copy from the library. What it looks like to me is the exquivalent of Alcega for 1790-1840 but better. All kinds of editorial comments. Awesome book if you're a serious reenactor of the time. Drawings of pattern shapes, all kinds of cool info about how to buy fabric, cut fabric, what to look for, economy, etc.... All kinds of stitching tips, recipes for marking inks, cleaning formulas, and the like, how to's. If you are in to this period, get it. If it was my period I'd buy it in a flat second. Otherwise I'll be satisfied with checking it out of the library. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 19:12:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21219 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:12:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23927; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:24:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA06172 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:23:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06166 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:23:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p23.directcon.net [206.170.184.122]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA25714 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908210023.RAA25714@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >Has there been a consensus yet on what to do about the sleeves and bodice >bottom edge on the Elizabethan yet? I haven't seen the actual pattern yet, just the photo. So I may be missing some things. The sleeves look okay to me. I would make them as a puffed cap sleeve sewn into the bodice, with a close fitted undersleeve attached to the armscye with points so that it could be removed. How does the pattern handle it? the lower edge of the bodice could be as is, although I'd probably give it a self piping for definition and finish, or it could be finished with a skirting or with tabs or looped tabs. The very long point could be shortened and blunted considerably, which would be more flattering for some figures. They bodice cut doesn't look dreadfully curvy to me, but that may be the flat chested model they show it on. It wouldn't be too difficult to alter the curve out. If I did that, I might choose to build the corsetry into the gown by giving it a heavily boned lining rather than a separate corset. I think the neckline is too high; generally a French bodice is best cut no higher than the top of the nipple. And as we discussed recently, there isn't any documentation for French (low necked) bodices that didn't match the over skirt. Also, the "chemise" on it is basically a >dicky. Are any of you 9especially those in the hotter areas) going to leave >it like that, or are you going to make a full chemise? the "dickey" is an actual period garment, called a partlet. They would have been worn with a smock (chemise) cut like a t-tunic, with a low square neck that could just barely show above the neckline of the dress, or it could be several inches higher, edged with embroidery or lace, to provide more modesty. A partlet was always worn over this smock style (I'm speaking of upper to noble class, here) whether it was worn open to reveal the bosom, usually by maidens, or closed, by married women. Partlets were often elaborately decorated, so making them a seperate garment from the smock made sense from a laundry point of view. So my answer is yes, I'd make the "dickey" but I'd also make a smock to wear under it. A tightly laced garment is much more comfortable with soft cloth between you and it. I hope that helps. I'm going to make the *40 mile* trip it takes me to buy Simplicity tomorrow, so I'll be able to comment on the construction metjhods, etc, after I see it. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 19:24:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21291 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:24:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24907; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:34:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA08174 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:34:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08157 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:34:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a ([24.4.53.172]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990821003434.PLVZ6517.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@c59303a> for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 17:34:34 -0700 Message-ID: <009c01beeb6f$704dd9c0$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: References: <199908210023.RAA25714@zeus.directcon.net> Subject: H-COST: That Elizabethan! Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:50:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" I found it!!!!!!!!!!!!! They are at Jo-Anns, and they have lots of them. 11.00 each so at half price that is better than the ebay prices. And if you are lucky to find them at Hancock's the Simplicity patterns are on sale this weekend for 1.99! :) I am going to try to make it this weekend to see what is and isn't "right". I will post details.... Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide ----- Original Message ----- From: Margo Anderson To: Sent: Friday, August 20, 1999 7:23 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! : : -Poster: Margo Anderson : : : >Has there been a consensus yet on what to do about the sleeves and bodice : >bottom edge on the Elizabethan yet? : : : : I haven't seen the actual pattern yet, just the photo. So I may be missing : some things. The sleeves look okay to me. I would make them as a puffed cap : sleeve sewn into the bodice, with a close fitted undersleeve attached to the : armscye with points so that it could be removed. How does the pattern : handle it? : : the lower edge of the bodice could be as is, although I'd probably give it a : self piping for definition and finish, or it could be finished with a : skirting or with tabs or looped tabs. The very long point could be : shortened and blunted considerably, which would be more flattering for some : figures. : : They bodice cut doesn't look dreadfully curvy to me, but that may be the : flat chested model they show it on. It wouldn't be too difficult to alter : the curve out. If I did that, I might choose to build the corsetry into the : gown by giving it a heavily boned lining rather than a separate corset. I : think the neckline is too high; generally a French bodice is best cut no : higher than the top of the nipple. And as we discussed recently, there : isn't any documentation for French (low necked) bodices that didn't match : the over skirt. : : Also, the "chemise" on it is basically a : >dicky. Are any of you 9especially those in the hotter areas) going to leave : >it like that, or are you going to make a full chemise? : : the "dickey" is an actual period garment, called a partlet. They would : have been worn with a smock (chemise) cut like a t-tunic, with a low square : neck that could just barely show above the neckline of the dress, or it : could be several inches higher, edged with embroidery or lace, to provide : more modesty. A partlet was always worn over this smock style (I'm speaking : of upper to noble class, here) whether it was worn open to reveal the bosom, : usually by maidens, or closed, by married women. : : Partlets were often elaborately decorated, so making them a seperate : garment from the smock made sense from a laundry point of view. : : So my answer is yes, I'd make the "dickey" but I'd also make a smock to wear : under it. A tightly laced garment is much more comfortable with soft cloth : between you and it. : : I hope that helps. I'm going to make the *40 mile* trip it takes me to buy : Simplicity tomorrow, so I'll be able to comment on the construction : metjhods, etc, after I see it. : Margo Anderson : "One Tough Costumer" : http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm : : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 19:51:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21385 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:51:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27501; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:03:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12797 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:02:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12778 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:02:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id KAA32586 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:32:43 +0930 (CST) Received: by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA15501; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:32:43 +0930 Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:32:42 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@bragg To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Medieval Research question In-Reply-To: <37BD76B1.B9B5B728@serv.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Fri, 20 Aug 1999, Merouda the True of Bornover wrote: > > I have only heard this refered to as a liripipe. > > One of the things I think of when I think of lappets are the flaps that hang down > the sides of the early-mid Tudor ladies head dresses. Can't remember what date > the quote was from. Yes, otr the funny flappy bits on the collars of garnaches and the like. However, given that people carry stuff in them, and the Virgin Mary seems to be attempting to make some kind of statement by leaving hers off, it would seem a 'lappe' is quite voluminous. Here's a thought - could a lappe be an apron? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 20:06:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21585 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:06:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29204; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:18:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA15533 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:18:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from send205.yahoomail.com (web134.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.221]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA15520 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:18:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990821011822.23284.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.69.61.70] by web134.yahoomail.com; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:18:22 PDT Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:18:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Moonshadow Subject: Re: H-COST: Vintage dance in Palo Alto, CA--Costumes welcome To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Moonshadow I cannot believe I am seeing that name, Palo Alto! I lived there so many years ago. I was 8-14. Have fun!, I wish I was there!! I am in Tennessee now, in the boondocks, sigh __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 20:40:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21609 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:40:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02227; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:52:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA19933 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:51:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19928 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 19:51:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.3.23.212]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990821015150.CQQP20194.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 18:51:50 -0700 Message-ID: <37BE0638.112CE322@home.com> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:51:52 -0400 From: Liz /cozit Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Tavern Wench garb References: <199908201913.NAA01191@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Liz /cozit I have to admit the "wench-look" is popular...and one of the reasons (besides the availability of bodices) it's probably a bit more predominant in some areas is that there may be a popular Renn.Faire nearby. Lots of people can't afford (at least not at first) to buy a large number of outfits, and if they are interested in both Faire and SCA they'll go with the Faire look as it's ok for SCA...the reverse doesn't necessarily apply. Admittedly, the underbosom look is *horrible* on most people. But many of the garbsellers will point out that and the fact that they are uncomfortable..."and just look.." at what happens if you cover part of your "assets" and push them together and up! I can honestly say I don't know anyone who actually owns one of the "floppy" bodices right now...but, then again, I do know a couple who fluff themselves a bit too much and create a little ledge over the bodices. I've noticed more men looking at those who create more cleavage and/or can set a tankard down on top, though...so that's probably influenced some on that subject. BTW, now I'm finding myself wondering what a-um-"easy" woman who wanted to flaunt herself and could afford to would have worn in the Henry VIII - Elizabeth time period. (not that I'd want to wear such, just curious as always...) -Elisabeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 20:59:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21640 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:59:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03454; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:11:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA22022 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:11:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22017 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:10:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn37.pm3-5.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.241.128]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13286 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:10:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908210210.UAA13286@sight.vcn.com> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Tavern Wench garb Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 02:11:07 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Interesting question - I've read of various "signs" used (sometimes ordered by law) in different places and times - a striped shawl, a certain kind of hood, a certain color of clothing, certain colors of dyed hair (usually yellow or red). Anyone have specifics? Liadain > BTW, now I'm finding myself wondering what a-um-"easy" woman who wanted > to flaunt herself and could afford to would have worn in the Henry VIII > - Elizabeth time period. (not that I'd want to wear such, just curious > as always...) > > > -Elisabeth > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 22:15:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21779 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:15:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09060; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:27:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA00326 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:27:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00320 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:27:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p23.directcon.net [206.170.184.122]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA12901 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:26:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:26:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908210326.UAA12901@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Tavern Wench garb Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >BTW, now I'm finding myself wondering what a-um-"easy" woman who wanted >to flaunt herself and could afford to would have worn in the Henry VIII >- Elizabeth time period. She'd probably have done something really shocking and erotic, like wearing her hair down. Didn't Anne Boleyn, the hussy, pull that one once, or have I read too many novels? > Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 22:18:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21783 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:18:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09509; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:30:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA00745 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:30:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00738 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:30:13 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.115] (ppp115.creative.net [208.225.99.115]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA06662 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:30:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01BEEB2A.6B917080@ELEMENTAL> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:37:52 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: RE: H-COST: Pants -was:Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Carrie Veenstra wrote: >I've had good luck with the technique of no-pattern pants given here: >http://www.unm.edu/~kballar/newcomer/pants.html > >These are baggies, and the easiest thing to get my newbies into ( 20th >century ren casual, we call it) > >I've also been able to ease some of the guys I sew for over to hose (well, >fancy cotton lycra tights) after a season or two of faire. ;-) I have the >best luck convincing them when their shirt, tunic or doublet falls below >crotch level by at least 3-4 inches. Haven't gotten anyone to try the >really high-hemmed Italian style doublet w/hose combo yet. > >For Italian Ren, from what I've seen in paintings & such, the male >options are long gown and/or hose, sometimes knee-length TIGHT pants over >hose, or meeting the hose at the knee... Pants as modern males tend to >accept them just don't seem to fit the silhouette for that place & time. >Hopefully, someone on the list will point out that I'm wrong in this, and >tell me where else to go look ;-> --- Not being a man, perhaps i'm just hampered mentally (or physically)... but... Why would a guy wear a certain upper garment, and not wear a suitable lower body covering? Certain periods of male upper body coverings just look *awful* with "baggy pants". I saw a guy at an SCA Collegium (where classes are taught and people learn about being more authentic) in a more-or-less Elizabethan doublet with slashed panels on the sleeves. With it he is wearing a pair of loose pants, obviously made to go with his doublet, cuz they have matching slashed panels running down the legs; they come down to his *ankles* (or the tops of his feet, actually) and have a *lace cuff* there. These are pants of absolutely no period - what an odd (and ugly) concatenation of styles. I mean, if he thinks it's "weird" to wear proper Elizabethan men's pants (and there a variety of shape choices - one doesn't have to wear the little pumkins), why does he think these ugly pants look good? I'm guessing, because they *feel* like modern pants? So, to be constructive and not keep ranting: If a man won't expose his legs but wants to wear Elizabethan, he *could* wear Venetians, which are a little full, but not baggy, and come to just below the knee where they are fitted. They can be worn with "knee socks". You know, kinda the 16th c. version of knickers, like golfers wore in the 1930's. So, if you (any "you", not some specific listee) are getting guys into Ren Fair garb, why not suggest Venetians? They aren't hard to make, aren't all that "weird" looking, don't require wearing tights or much body exposure, and, i imagine, feel more like modern pants... Further tracking these thoughts: Baggy pants just won't look right with a short fitted Italian "doublet" (is that a cotehardie?) from the late Renaissance. The darn thing was so fitted and short in order to *show off* the wearer's body. If a guy is shy to show off his legs, mixing up a short tight "doublet" with baggy pants will just look awful (ok, so i'm being highly opinionated). So, if a guy thinks some of historic lower body coverings look too "weird" for him to wear, he kind of has two options: (1) if it's SCA (or a similar type of event) he should go with a period that incorporates some sort of "pants" in which he'd be comfortable and wear an appropriate upper body garment, rather than mixing and (mis)matching garments and periods; --or-- (2) wear a different outfit from the same period that allows him more "modesty" (for Ren Fairs or trying to match a woman's outfit). Just my inflammatory thoughts, Lilinah not an authenticity fanatic, but wishes for a closer approximation at SCA and Ren Fair events in which she participates And don't get me started on all the women who run around Ren Fairs with NO head covering and their hair loose. Wrong, wrong, wrong - it's like being half-naked. (Sigh) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 22:47:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21800 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:47:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11404; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:59:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA03924 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:59:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03918 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:59:32 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.115] (ppp115.creative.net [208.225.99.115]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA07308 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 20:59:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000e01beeb45$ee27a940$2b31aec7@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:07:11 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Pattern sizing Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Help! I realize this isn't a historical question... Back in the 1970's when i made most of my clothes, i weighed about 95 lbs, measured 36-22-36, and had narrow shoulders. Commercially i wore a mix of 3's and 5's and 4' and 6's. Most things were way too loose at the waist (which i would take in) and snuggy in the hips (which was fashionable then). They were often too tight in the bust, but bigger sizes fit weird because the shoulder seams fell down my arms and made it hard to raise my arms without ripping the garment. My measurements matched no commercial patterns. I bought patterns by my clothing size (6) rather than by measurements (which would have put me in a 10 or 12). How the patterns were really sized seemed to vary by company. Butterick and Vogue always fit fine. Simplicity patterns were always way too big and required being taken in all over (that aforementioned 2" someone brought up). McCall's seemed unpredictable - one pattern would fit fine, another of the same size would be too tight... I haven't sewn with commercial patterns for a while (like close to 20 years) - just wearing lots of second hand and doing costuming where i draft my own. Alas, i am no longer the same size as i was in the '70's. Nevertheless, i'd like to make some clothes using commercial patterns, but i'm not sure what size to get. I get the idea that they don't size them the same way they did in the 70's. So, do i trust the measurements on the package or go by my off-the-rack clothing size or some other arcane method? In looking through the pattern books, i tend to prefer Vogue patterns, although i've seen a few McCall's that i like... Thanks in advance... Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 23:38:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21899 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:38:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14468; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:50:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA08908 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:50:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from superman.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08896 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:50:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 ([204.244.117.59]) by superman.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA08364 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:53:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <023c01beeb90$d2f14dc0$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: H-COST: "Wench" wear - Oi! Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:51:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Oh yes! I can echo this. I'm from An Tir (Lions Gate), Vancouver, BC ,Canada, for those not in the Society, and wench is the BIG thing here for some reason. The term I have heard for it sometimes is the "missile tit corset". Oi! Zelda (researching costuming for 1020 to 1050 York, 1567 Spanish, Elizabethan in general (middle class mostly, but love those royal portraits!)and starting to look at 1400 to 1500 Netherlands) >-Poster: Charlotte > > > >I have to agree with Merouda here. Here in An Tir, there are far too many >people >wearing the tavern wench look. I have a feeling that part of this is >because there >are also a lot of newbies running around and it can be the easiest thing to >put >together at first. > >My first 2 outfits were both tavern wench outfits. I even did the Tits on >a Plate thing, >before I figured out how to lace my bodice to be comfortable and not make me >look like that. (I admit the first time I wore a boned bodice, the only >thing going through >my head was "oh my g*d, there's actually a waist in there somewhere!) > >I have since "graduated" to wearing surcotes 90% of the time (if the event >calls for it, >I will wear the wench stuff... usually only in the evening). My next >attempt is going >to be a houppelande though. > >>If we can get them to do this, maybe we can get them in a corset >>next. And then >>a partlet and farthingale. > >Hey Merouda... you ever make it up to Vancouver? I'm trying to get some >people together to do a fabric >run through Little India and Dressew's some saturday and then spend the >rest of saturday and sunday >making garb :) > >Charlotte Madeleine de Courseilles > >mka Karla Sexsmith >in the Barony of Lion's Gate >Kingdom of An Tir >mka Vancouver BC Canada > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 20 23:41:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21915 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:41:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14773; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:53:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA09269 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:53:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09262 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 22:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gia-g (dialup320.serv.net [207.207.70.213]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA03813 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000201beeb91$2abf06a0$d546cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: 13th century pregnant women and nursing women Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 21:51:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" I'm not sure if the poster was only interested in cotehardies or the like, but here's what I did. When I was pregnant with my youngest I bounced back and forth between the loose T-Tunics and my italian rens. Now I think italian rens might be too late period, for the period specified, but hey...just more info! The T-tunics were very "A" shaped, with gussets under the arm that made it *the* thing I wore during the last few weeks. Since the hem of the garment was curved (and a little too long anyways) the excess length of the front was taken up by the baby. I preferred no belt. I had two italian rens that had back lacings, and one that was frontclosure with decorative hook and eye (for breast feeding). The back laced ones were still ok since I've seen some documentation for a little gaping in the closures. Again, the gowns were too long for me anyways (period), the excess length in the front was taken up by baby. The fitted high waisted bodice as a godsend to support the expanding bosum (and hold the nursing pads in place). And, of course, the very loose skirts (with much gathering at the bodice) were wonderful for during and after. No need to worry about postpartum bulge...I was *supposed* to look that way in the gowns! *grin* My chemises had a slit in the center that were long enough to 'shift over' to the appropriate breast when needed, and full enough that I was reasonably 'decent'. Anyways, my littlest is 4 Yrs old now...goodness how time flies! Gia/Giacinta _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 00:17:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21944 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:17:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16710; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:28:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA12654 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:28:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from latte.2xtreme.net (latte.2xtreme.net [209.63.222.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA12649 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:28:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 114 invoked from network); 21 Aug 1999 05:32:09 -0000 Received: from p150.sac2.2xtreme.net (HELO 2xtreme.net) (209.63.217.150) by latte.2xtreme.net with SMTP; 21 Aug 1999 05:32:09 -0000 Message-ID: <37BD8F79.C2A9A096@2xtreme.net> Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 10:25:15 -0700 From: Stephen Bergdahl X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Subject: H-COST: Thanks! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Stephen Bergdahl Dear list members h-costume@indra.com Thank you very much for all the help you gave me on my Civil War Dress problem. Nothing like asking a few hundred people for help to give all sorts of things to check out. I am sure that by the time I am through checking out these sources the Reference Librarian will hate me ever more than she does now. Again thank you! Yours Stephen Bergdahl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 01:43:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22020 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 01:43:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22351; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:55:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA20512 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:55:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20506 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 00:55:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12958 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-99.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.99]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA29164 for ; Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008901beeba2$c7488300$0105fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Pattern sizing Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 23:38:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" -I would take into account the finished garment size over the measurements to determine clothing size. Usually, if you open the pattern and look at the instructions it will say something like 'body measurement, plus design ease, and wear ease.' Depending on the garment, this could change things a lot. You can't go by the off the rack size, it wont work at all. Michelle >So, do i trust the measurements on the package or go by my off-the-rack >clothing size or some other arcane method? In looking through the pattern >books, i tend to prefer Vogue patterns, although i've seen a few McCall's >that i like... > >Thanks in advance... > >Lilinah > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 03:53:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA18450 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 03:53:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA28052; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 03:04:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA29721 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 03:03:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spamgaab.compuserve.com (as-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.217.145]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA29714 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 03:03:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id FAA16659 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 05:02:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 05:02:21 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: 13th century pregnant women and nursing women To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908210502_MC2-81D6-A7@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id DAA29717 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson Congrats ! I do 13th C English so my costume is of the period you speak. To be honest I'm baffled that you think you need a seperate maternity gown or fancy seaming, the basic 13th C pattern dress form easily accomodates you right through pregnancy, and believe me I get HUGH ! As for breast feeding ,I found an illustration (don't as me where now as it was 3 years ago I had the babe) showing the VM with two slits over each breast (vertical) these are pleated so that the fall shut unless you deliberatly open them to feed , it worked really well for me. No velco or anything is needed if cut correctly. I think in the US you worry more about the modesty of breast feeding than here in the UK, but I didn't bother with any other covering to feed, as if you do the baby can get bothered & mess with the feed (3 children, each over 1 years breast feeding experience :0)) Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 06:25:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18616 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 06:25:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03077; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 05:37:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA04727 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 05:37:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA04722 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 05:37:19 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6MNTa20495 (3889) for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 07:35:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <64a6cd94.24efe8ed@aol.com> Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 07:35:09 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Pattern sizing To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com One should always buy patterns by one's measurements. Ready-to-wear sizes are not standardized, but the major pattern company sizes are. (The different company patterns will fit you a bit differently, however. Each uses a slightly different body shape and wearing ease, even though the standard measurements are the same.) Jo-Ann Fabrics has a free leaflet available that explains pattern sizes. Note that some of the smaller companies, like Kwik-Sew, use a different system. Generally, you should buy tops and dresses by your bust measurement and skirts or slacks by your hip measurement. It is easier to alter the waist than the hips. Each company has a "basic fit" pattern--a dress with 2-dart bodice, straight skirt, and long sleeve, and hints on fitting. If you tend towards Vogue, buy their basic pattern, make it up in muslin or 1" gingham check (easier to see the grain lines) and see how you like the fit. Then you should pretty much be able to translate the alterations necessary to any other Vogue patterns. I hope this is helpful. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 07:24:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18655 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 07:24:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04831; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 06:35:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA09138 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 06:35:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09133 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 06:35:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xohgoynt ([212.250.68.206]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990821123433.CLK6414.mta2-svc@xohgoynt> for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:34:33 +0100 Message-ID: <01eb01beebd0$77854460$ce44fad4@xohgoynt> From: "emma smith" To: References: <199908192021.NAA19535@zeus.directcon.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: Medieval Research question Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 12:59:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "emma smith" how about lapels...? emma ----- Original Message ----- From: Margo Anderson To: Sent: Thursday, August 19, 1999 9:21 PM Subject: H-COST: H-Cost: Medieval Research question > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > I'm forwarding this from the SCA-West list. Can someone help this lady? > > >O.K, you guys, I need help! From ms. printed in England in various > editions from the last decade of the fifteenth century to the first decade > of the sixteenth century, but from sources (mostly in Latin) from the 13th > century onward, and written by monks, whose basic uniform is a laundry bag > (i.e., not fashion wizards); > > > >the blessyd virgyn Marye appearyd to hym vysyvly in a whyte garment, that > lacked bothe sleues & lappes. Than this monke meruayles and sayd to her, " > O moost swete Lady, why haue your vpper clothynge no sleues ne lappes?" > > > > > >>From the Peter Whiteford critical edition of They Myracles of Oure Lady, > ed from Wynkyn de Worde's edition (Heidelberg: Carl Winter > Universitatsverlag, 1990), 41. > > > >I translated "sleeves and collar," but I'm still a little confused by > "lappes." It could refer to any collar, modesty panel or anything else that > was on a woman's garment (a woman of modesty and high estate) between 1200 > and 1512. Any good ideas? (This is for the final draft of the dissertation > so it is time critical). (Yeah, I know I could do this myself, but why > spend all that time when I have a mob of experts out there.) > > > >Dana/Maythen > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 07:35:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18663 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 07:35:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04843; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 06:35:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA09176 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 06:35:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09168 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 06:35:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xohgoynt ([212.250.68.206]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990821123450.CMA6414.mta2-svc@xohgoynt> for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:34:50 +0100 Message-ID: <01ed01beebd0$8191e620$ce44fad4@xohgoynt> From: "emma smith" To: References: <199908201913.NAA01191@net.indra.com> <37BE0638.112CE322@home.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Tavern Wench garb Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:17:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "emma smith" Liz Speaking as a Brit who does Living History in the Tudor period... Women then did pretty much as women do always - flaunt hwat they have with varying degrees of subtlety - depending on their personality Cleavage was a *big* thing. Where I do LH there is generally a cleavage contest every year (dull, but hey) and some of those are *disgusting*. BTW & on another note, I've read with interest loads of stuff on/by SCA stuff & am fascinated. I used to know someone in Ca who did it & loved it - her name is Sarah Howard & her family are from Davis, she has a sister called Catherine - if you know her (a long shot I know!) please say hi from Emma Also, you might be interested in a web site of a Brit LH group which is based at Kentwell Hall in Suffolk I'll forward the web address if you're interested Bella ----- Original Message ----- From: Liz /cozit To: Sent: Saturday, August 21, 1999 2:51 AM Subject: H-COST: Re: Tavern Wench garb > > -Poster: Liz /cozit > > > I have to admit the "wench-look" is popular...and one of the reasons > (besides the availability of bodices) it's probably a bit more > predominant in some areas is that there may be a popular Renn.Faire > nearby. Lots of people can't afford (at least not at first) to buy a > large number of outfits, and if they are interested in both Faire and > SCA they'll go with the Faire look as it's ok for SCA...the reverse > doesn't necessarily apply. > > Admittedly, the underbosom look is *horrible* on most people. But many > of the garbsellers will point out that and the fact that they are > uncomfortable..."and just look.." at what happens if you cover part of > your "assets" and push them together and up! I can honestly say I don't > know anyone who actually owns one of the "floppy" bodices right > now...but, then again, I do know a couple who fluff themselves a bit too > much and create a little ledge over the bodices. I've noticed more men > looking at those who create more cleavage and/or can set a tankard down > on top, though...so that's probably influenced some on that subject. > > > BTW, now I'm finding myself wondering what a-um-"easy" woman who wanted > to flaunt herself and could afford to would have worn in the Henry VIII > - Elizabeth time period. (not that I'd want to wear such, just curious > as always...) > > > -Elisabeth > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 10:59:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18832 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:59:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20824; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:05:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA28614 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:04:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28607 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:04:57 -0600 (MDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6QNEa23997 (4389) for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 12:04:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 12:04:06 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: Medieval Research question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com Emma write: << how about lapels...? >> Now this might be getting closer. Check out the "Grand Robe" from the treasury at Chelles, France. The neckline has two narrow, lapel-like bits that hang down the front. They hang down from a narrow collar. This robe is female garb, too. Nancy (Ingvild) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 11:11:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18865 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 11:11:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22373; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:22:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00598 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:22:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00587 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:22:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.184] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11IDuR-0000RF-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:22:23 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:21:32 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: Medieval Research question In-Reply-To: <01eb01beebd0$77854460$ce44fad4@xohgoynt> References: <199908192021.NAA19535@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 12:59 PM 8/21/99, "emma smith" wrote: how about lapels...?emma ----- Original Message -----From: Margo Anderson To: Sent: Thursday, August 19, 1999 9:21 PM Subject: H-COST: H-Cost: Medieval Research question ... ... lappes ... . It was I, Carol J. Bell Cannon , not Margo who sent the original post to the list, just for accuracy's sake. I thank all who have been so generous with your time and expertise thus far. Dana's thesis defense is scheduled for 9 Sept., so this was the necessity for haste.--Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 11:16:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18869 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 11:16:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22490; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:24:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00810 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:24:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00805 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:24:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a ([24.4.53.172]) by mail.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990821162447.WGQN6517.mail.rdc1.tx.home.com@c59303a> for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:24:47 -0700 Message-ID: <01a801beebf1$dadcc620$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: H-COST: resizing patterns Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 11:24:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" I remember that someone posted a url for a page that talks about resizing patterns. Can anyone remember this as well and repost that url? It was a few months ago and I cannot find it in the archives. Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 11:18:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18873 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 11:18:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22946; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:30:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01389 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:30:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01372 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.142 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:29:31 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Flannel Tennis Dress, c. 1891 Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 12:11:47 -0400 Message-ID: <000601beebf3$9900cf60$700bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Thought you all might enjoy this pattern and picture for a full length tennis dress on e-bay. Recommended fabric is striped flannel! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=15040 0971 Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 11:30:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18881 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 11:30:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23680; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:42:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02616 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:42:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02609 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:42:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p10.directcon.net [206.170.184.59]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA28755 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908211642.JAA28755@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: Medieval Research question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 09:21 AM 08/21/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > >At 12:59 PM 8/21/99, "emma smith" wrote: how about >lapels...?emma > >----- Original Message -----From: Margo Anderson To: > >Sent: Thursday, August 19, 1999 9:21 PM Subject: H-COST: H-Cost: Medieval >Research question > ... ... lappes ... . > >It was I, Carol J. Bell Cannon , not Margo who sent >the original post to the list, just for accuracy's sake. Actually, I sent it too, probably at the same time as you, since they both showed up in my mailbox in the same download. Carol, have you forwarded the responses to Maythen, or should I? Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 11:37:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18885 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 11:37:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24300; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03354 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:49:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03346 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 10:49:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p10.directcon.net [206.170.184.59]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA29349 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908211649.JAA29349@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: H-Cost: Elizabethan Costume Page Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson the Elizabethan Costume section of my website is now up! Enjoy! Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 11:52:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18916 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 11:52:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25383; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 11:04:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA04983 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 11:04:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04977 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 11:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.184] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11IER2-0002Jp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:56:04 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 09:55:15 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: Medieval Research question In-Reply-To: <199908211642.JAA28755@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 09:42 AM 8/21/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson >Actually, I sent it too, probably at the same time as you, since they both >showed up in my mailbox in the same download. Carol, have you forwarded the >responses to Maythen, or should I? Then my apologies to Emma. I should imagine we both have been. I have been sending them as they come in, both from here, the Garb list and the Apprentice List, plus from various friends worldwide. But Dana's/Maythen's thesis defense is scheduled for 9 Sept., so I know she's frantically prep'ping and is grateful for every response. She asked me to emphasize that gratitude to everyone who has responded. -- Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 13:33:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19024 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:33:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03000; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 12:45:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA15508 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 12:45:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15494 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 12:45:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [166.70.12.29] (helo=[166.70.12.88]) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11IG8h-0007VQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 12:45:15 -0600 X-Sender: Francesca.da.Bari@pop.netaddress.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37BDBD56.770EB27F@serv.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 12:56:16 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Karalee Larsen Pugmire Subject: Re: H-COST: 13th century pregnant women and nursing women Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Karalee Larsen Pugmire Thanks to all those who responded to my post. I think I'll be able to come up with something for the next two years that will work. I have been wondering what medieval women did. I'm sure not all of them passed their kids off to wet nurses and for that matter what did wet nurses wear? Francesca da Bari Cote du Ciel (Logan, Utah) Francesca.da.Bari _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 14:47:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19117 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 14:47:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08802; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:59:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA22825 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:59:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from svr-a-05.core.theplanet.net (svr-a-05.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.205]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22816 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 13:59:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem3.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.131] helo=herimats) by svr-a-05.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 11IHIM-00081a-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 20:59:19 +0100 Message-ID: <003201beec0f$a675b8b0$83065cc3@herimats> From: "Lester D Mundy" To: References: <4.1.19990819153105.0369e410@mail.canfield.com><37BCAB9B.6DE8@netwiz.net> <4.2.0.58.19990820112643.009a4220@mail.stockgroup.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Kirby Hall Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 20:55:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Lester D Mundy" So how did those that attended get on; Wether as participants or as public ? I never managed to get there; so would like to know. Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 15:22:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19166 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 15:22:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11757; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 14:35:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27664 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 14:35:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27657 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 14:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.161.142]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27544 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:35:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37BF0DF5.445C6E10@mediaone.net> Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:37:09 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: pattern sizing References: <199908211649.JAA29349@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas I find that if I go by bust size alone for a top pattern, it falls off my shoulders and fits badly. If you are bigger than a b-cup, you do better to go by shoulder size, or try a pattern that has multi-sizes. I need a 12 with a bust adjustment, not a 16 that needs shoulder and armhole changes! A lot of busty women have comparatively narrow shoulders, but the pattern makers seem to think our shoulders expand as we do! I costume large ladies who come in all sorts of shapes: "wall" to "apple" to "everything in front". -- Janice Dallas Arlington, MA JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 15:53:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19203 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 15:53:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14102; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 15:06:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA29132 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 14:50:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29114 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 14:50:18 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6UQYa23997 (4004) for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:49:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3e1b51ef.24f06ae6@aol.com> Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:49:42 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #495 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Merouda wrote: 'I am not so much against the tavern wench look (although of course, there is so much out there that is accurate and sexy) it is the fact that no self respecting woman of any class in history until the 20th century would have let her bosom hang out like that. Never. Even poor and "available" tavern wenches would have had a more modest bodice. Now they might have loosened the laces etc... but nothing even close to our current blasphemy. *g* A tasteful and well dressed lady is always sexy and there's no need to go letting it all hang out.' I would argue that no self-respecting woman of the TWENTIETH century would do it, either. I don't know what makes ordinarily (or so one assumes) normal women think that this looks either attractive or respectable. I know I am risking being accused of insensitivity or intolerance, but let's face it, that's exactly what I think when I see someone in that kind of outfit. And I think that perhaps many of the women who wear them don't KNOW other people feel that way -- for some reason, they think it's attractive and sexy. Around here (Ohio), a couple of years ago the fashion was to wear these outfits with a FLOWER sticking out of your cleavage. Daring someone to pick it, I suppose. At least that one isn't around anymore. And let me emphasize that I am not talking about the tavern wench look GENERALLY, just the practically exposed breasts thing. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 16:50:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19239 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:50:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18324; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:03:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA06567 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:02:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06558 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:02:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA16893 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 15:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-62.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.62]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA16831 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 15:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001701beec21$81264f40$f7b2fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: pattern sizing Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 15:07:04 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" This is exactly why Threads Magazine is so cool. They even go into manipulation for dowager humps. -----Original Message----- From: Janice Dallas To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Saturday, August 21, 1999 1:37 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: pattern sizing > >-Poster: Janice Dallas > >I find that if I go by bust size alone for a top pattern, it falls off >my shoulders and fits badly. If you are bigger than a b-cup, you do >better to go by shoulder size, or try a pattern that has multi-sizes. I >need a 12 with a bust adjustment, not a 16 that needs shoulder and >armhole changes! A lot of busty women have comparatively narrow >shoulders, but the pattern makers seem to think our shoulders expand as >we do! I costume large ladies who come in all sorts of shapes: "wall" >to "apple" to "everything in front". >-- >Janice Dallas >Arlington, MA >JaniceDals@MediaOne.net >"Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 16:53:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19243 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:53:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18604; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:05:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA06819 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:05:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06795 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:05:14 -0600 (MDT) From: martyr@gti.net Received: from gti.net (morr0693.gti.net [208.216.122.93]) by gti.net (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA24274 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 18:05:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37BF2254.F536AE46@gti.net> Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 18:04:06 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:wenches References: <3e1b51ef.24f06ae6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: martyr@gti.net > Merouda- > What about the 18th c. wenches in the "Rake's Progress?" Their boobs are > hanging out of their bodices in a few of the pics I believe, but I'm thinking > specifically of the scene where the Rake is being robbed at the tavern. ~Lisa > >it is the fact that no self respecting woman of any class in history until the > 20th century would have let her bosom hang out > >like that. Never. Even poor and "available" tavern wenches would have had a > more modest bodice. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 16:58:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19247 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:58:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19093; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:10:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07507 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:10:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07500 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 16:10:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990821221022.ILQE1639.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 15:10:22 -0700 Message-ID: <37BF23D2.33BA5040@home.com> Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 17:10:26 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #495 References: <3e1b51ef.24f06ae6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Gaelscot@aol.com wrote: > > Merouda wrote: > > 'I am not so > much against the tavern wench look (although of course, there is so > much out there that is accurate and sexy) it is the fact that no self > respecting woman of any class in history until the 20th century would > have let her bosom hang out like that. Never. What about the Minoans and the virgins of Queen Elizabeth I's court? I was under the impression that both wore clothing which revealed the nipple if not the entire bust. > > I would argue that no self-respecting woman of the TWENTIETH century > would do it, either. I don't know what makes ordinarily (or so one > assumes) normal women think that this looks either attractive or > respectable. I know I am risking being accused of insensitivity or > intolerance, but let's face it, that's exactly what I think when I see > someone in that kind of outfit. And I think that perhaps many of the > women who wear them don't KNOW other people feel that way -- for some > reason, they think it's attractive and sexy. Or perhaps it's because it makes *them* feel attractive and sexy. > Around here (Ohio), a couple of years ago the fashion was to wear > these outfits with a FLOWER sticking out of your cleavage. Daring > someone to pick it, I suppose. At least that one isn't around anymore. > > And let me emphasize that I am not talking about the tavern wench look > GENERALLY, just the practically exposed breasts thing. You might consider this also...when I was in school our skirts were not allowed to be above halfway down our thighs. I kept getting called to the office because my skirts were "too short"....they weren't...I just have very, very long thighs and it looks that way. I know that when I'm wearing a front laced dress with a chemise that it's sitting a good inch if not two away from my areolas but I've been accused of "almost showing nipple". Not everyone is built the same and while I am *positive* that some of these women are pushing the envelope, it may be that some of them are just large. When I married my husband I weighed 115#, stood 5'8" and wore a 32 DD bra. It didn't take much for me to look like I was wearing next to nothing even when I was wearing more proportionately than the other women around me. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 20:09:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19414 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 20:09:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04491; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:21:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25314 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:20:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25299 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:20:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-79-212.s212.tnt5.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.79.212]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA20556 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 21:22:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <020501beec3c$3aa2e720$963faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: To Bustle or Not to Bustle Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 21:18:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I just finished an article from an 1886 Delineator magazine. I featured nine dresses from the issue. Reading the commentary on the dresses, I discovered that the magazine suggests that some of the dresses could be worn with a bustle or without a bustle. The bustle was making a bouffant style at this time. I thought the decline of bustle usage was in 1889 or 1890. Were magazines trying to get rid of the bustle as early as 1886? I realize that women spent nearly three decades in some type of hoop and were probably sick of it at this point. Has anyone else seen documentation of the decline of the bustle this early? What was the year that a bustle was not fashionable? You can find the article at: http://www.costumegallery.com/Delineator/June_1886/Ladies_Costumes.htm Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 21:30:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19481 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 21:30:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11342; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 20:42:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA03458 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 20:41:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA03450 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 20:41:29 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 20:41:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 264 invoked from network); 22 Aug 1999 02:34:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.70.173) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 22 Aug 1999 02:34:08 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990821194226.13c7583c@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: 18th Century "tavern wench", was Re: H-COST:wenches Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 06:04 PM 8/21/99 -0400, martyr@gti.net wrote: >> Merouda- > >> What about the 18th c. wenches in the "Rake's Progress?" Their boobs are >> hanging out of their bodices in a few of the pics I believe, but I'm thinking >> specifically of the scene where the Rake is being robbed at the tavern. > >~Lisa [snip] Ah, but there's the rub! Eighteenth century "tavern wench" dress of this sort (on prostitutes) does *not* provide documentation for 16th Century (or earlier) outfits on similarly situated females. And the illustration is of an *indoor* scene, not someplace on the street. Joan Jurancich aka Mistress Blanche Parry, chief Gentlewoman to the Queen [RPFN] joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 21:58:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19498 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 21:58:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14584; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 21:10:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA06519 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 21:09:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06513 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 21:09:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.23] (sdts11-110.znet.net [207.167.66.110]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id UAA22382 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 20:09:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <37BDBD56.770EB27F@serv.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 19:16:37 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: 13th century pregnant women and nursing women Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >I have been wondering what medieval women did. I'm sure not all of them >passed their kids off to wet nurses and for that matter what did wet nurses >wear? Not all of them passed them off to wet nurses. Most of the pictures show the woman popping the breast out the top of the gown, sometimes they loosened a front lacing to do so... However popping the breast out of the top of a gown is a bit harder to be discreet in compared to some of the other suggestions. In medieval times they didn't care. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 21 23:11:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19575 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 23:11:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21447; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 22:23:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA13364 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 22:22:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13358 for ; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 22:22:39 -0600 (MDT) From: Cruthf@aol.com Received: from Cruthf@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6BDQa07446 (3966) for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 00:21:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 00:21:53 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: kilt documentation? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cruthf@aol.com please unsubsribe me, will be out of town for a week _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 01:36:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19769 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:36:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04679; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 00:48:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA25194 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 00:47:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1102.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.122]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA25182 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 00:47:48 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990822064754.9843.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.229.173.2] by web1102.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 21 Aug 1999 23:47:54 PDT Date: Sat, 21 Aug 1999 23:47:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell Subject: Re: H-COST: 13th century pregnant women and nursing women To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carol Mitchell A friend of mine, faced with a hungry infant and noone around to help her out of her laces, put sidewise slits in her chemise with a knife and let the child nurse through an armhole. She sewed up the chemise when the child was weaned. She said she later found evidence that this was one way nursing mothers had managed. Carol
Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at Yahoo! Auctions.
_________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 01:58:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19811 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:58:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA05980; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:09:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA26882 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:09:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26875 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:09:25 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.103] (ppp103.creative.net [208.225.99.103]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA28510 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 00:09:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3e1b51ef.24f06ae6@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 00:17:02 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #495 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Merouda wrote: >> I am not so >>much against the tavern wench look (although of course, there is so much out >>there that is accurate and sexy) it is the fact that no self respecting >>woman of >>any class in history until the 20th century would have let her bosom hang out >>like that. Never. Even poor and "available" tavern wenches would have had a >>more modest bodice. Now they might have loosened the laces etc... but >>nothing >>even close to our current blasphemy. *g* A tasteful and well dressed >>lady is >>always sexy and there's no need to go letting it all hang out.' Gail Finke wrote: >I would argue that no self-respecting woman of the TWENTIETH century would do >it, either. I don't know what makes ordinarily (or so one assumes) normal >women think that this looks either attractive or respectable. I know I am >risking being accused of insensitivity or intolerance, but let's face it, >that's exactly what I think when I see someone in that kind of outfit. And I >think that perhaps many of the women who wear them don't KNOW other people >feel that way -- for some reason, they think it's attractive and sexy. It's 'cuz so many hetero guys are attracted to, ahem, exposed mammery flesh. Guys may not "respect" the woman who is so exposed, but many will sure be "attracted" to her. Ergo, the woman so undressed is "attractive", i.e., is one who attracts attention. >Around here (Ohio), a couple of years ago the fashion was to wear these >outfits with a FLOWER sticking out of your cleavage. Daring someone to pick >it, I suppose. At least that one isn't around anymore. Well, at Northern California, the thing has been to have live rats in one's bodice, poking there heads out of the cleavage. (Shrug) Rats are decent pets, but i wouldn't want to expose them to the extreme heat of combined weather and, errr, body heat, poor little things. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 02:18:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA00322 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 02:18:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07005; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:29:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA28179 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:28:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA28172 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:28:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908220728.BAA28172@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 7236 invoked from network); 22 Aug 1999 01:28:39 -0600 Received: from ts26-25.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.139) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 22 Aug 1999 01:28:39 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: H-COST: Cleavage Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:34:41 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" It is important that those of us who always seem to be helping newcomers choose their garb, also help define 'cleavage'. Cleavage today is, well, out there for everyone to see. Elizabethan cleavage was more subtle. I seem to remember a description somewhere describing it as a gentle swelling, as opposed to the avalanche of flesh you often see. It brings to mind an early impression of what 'beautiful' was to me as a little girl. I always thought that Marilyn Monroe was beautiful, but I felt embarrassed for Jane Mansfield. Pamela Anderson Lee, embarrassing, Sophia Loren, beautiful. Raquel Welsh started embarrassing, ended up beautiful. Maybe drawing such modern parallels would help people get the picture. Beauty and sexy are more about what you don't see. Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 02:20:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA02617 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 02:20:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07193; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:33:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA28489 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:32:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA28483 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 01:32:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.189] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11IS7N-0000XA-00; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 00:32:42 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 00:31:50 -0700 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: Request for What to Tell Newcomers about How to Dress and Act in the Medieval Period (ca. 500-1550) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I know the conventional wisdom seems to be : T-tunic and trews or some variety. I've already got a long list of my own, but I'd like to solicit your thoughts. This man doesn't have a clue who/when he wants to be, how to go about choosing a persona, how to attire/equip himself, nor about manners/customs in the SCA, BUT he's intelligent. He's asking beforehand. He & I will appreciate it if you would lend your advice and expertise. Many, many thanks in advance. Carol / Gra/inne, in the SCA PS If anyone has the contact info. for the appropriate Seneschal/Chatelaine for the group local to Taunton, NJ, please send that to me PRIVATELY, NOT to the list. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 08:19:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16672 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 08:19:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21505; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 07:31:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA11814 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 07:31:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from discordia.io.com (discordia.io.com [199.170.88.100]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11808 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 07:31:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dragon (aus-as3-067.io.com [208.2.106.67]) by discordia.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08341 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 08:31:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199908221331.IAA08341@discordia.io.com> From: "Amanda Reeves" To: Subject: H-COST: Wench bosoms Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 08:34:27 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Amanda Reeves" At a Ren Faire last year I saw a few large breasted women that chose to wear their "wench" blouses in a way that was a little disturbing to me (of-course, it's just my opinion, but I still have the image in my head). The fabric was a natural gauze and the "push up" was under the breasts, the breasts hung over the push-up element of the costume (a laced up vest or bodice) like empty, floppy water sacks, which was not appealing under the thin gauze. Oh-yes, they didn't have anything on under the blouse so you could see nipple. Not at all appealing and a little tacky, in my opinion. Another "look" I see a lot around here is the "wench" women tucking random parts of their skirts and petticoats up in a belt and hanging lots of stuff around their waist, hems, etc. It seems to borderline fantasy, but they appear to be doing it for the Ren look. Then there was the lady in a BRIGHT red dress with black accents, i.e. belt, stockings, ribbons..........seemed she should be in an early American reenactment as a barroom gal. > > for some > > reason, they think it's attractive and sexy. > > Or perhaps it's because it makes *them* feel attractive and sexy. That's probably very true and very important that they feel good about themselves, but sometimes I wish women would look a little more closely in the mirror before leaving the house. > > Around here (Ohio), a couple of years ago the fashion was to wear > > these outfits with a FLOWER sticking out of your cleavage. Daring > > someone to pick it, I suppose. At least that one isn't around anymore. I see that a lot around here, but now I'm beginning to see "henna tattoos" on the top of the breast. I don't think they did that. > You might consider this also...when I was in school our skirts were not > allowed to be above halfway down our thighs. I kept getting called to > the office because my skirts were "too short".... > Kat Oh, you're young!!! Our skirts had to be at the top of the knee! Amanda Texas _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 09:03:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16693 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 09:03:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23685; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 08:15:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA16271 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 08:15:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16265 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 08:15:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23276 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 10:14:24 -0400 Message-ID: <37C005C6.270C4640@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 10:16:29 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: bezants? References: <199908140348.VAA15912@net.indra.com> <37B6FE86.7811@enteract.com> <37B99374.C566252C@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue I'm going to make houppelandes of the sort that have one sleeve only decorated with hanging bezants. I found a source for something that looks fairly close to some of the items in the Museum of London books -- they are non-coin danglies meant for belly dancing outfits. Most of the ones you can buy look like some kind of middle-eastern coin, or have poky, jagged edges (on purpose.) These are different; just under the size of an american quarter, and have a small wire ring soldierd on; they come in brass or white metal, about $12/100 coins. I got mine from The Pillaged Village. Regards, Cynthia ----- "A cow is a dairy product!" - Sherman's Lagoon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 09:22:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16707 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 09:22:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24775; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 08:34:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA18073 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 08:33:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA18067 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 08:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990822143643.18091.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [209.156.196.46] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 07:36:43 PDT Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 07:36:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Wench bosoms To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney > I see that a lot around here, but now I'm beginning > to see "henna tattoos" > on the top of the breast. I don't think they did > that. Actually, henna tattoos were used most everywhere one could imagine at times, but NOT for anything medieval... The History Channel has been doing a series called the "History of Sex" and the other night's was about sex in the middle east and the orient and how it differed from the European thought. The "harems" would use the henna tattoos.... Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 11:46:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16798 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 11:46:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05578; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 10:59:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03323 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 10:58:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03317 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 10:58:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p22.directcon.net [206.170.184.71]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA29678 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 09:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 09:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908221657.JAA29678@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Review of the New Simplicity Elizabethan Pattern Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I bought the new Simplicity "Shakespeare In Love" pattern yesterday. I was very surprised to find that my final review of it is that it's FABULOUS!!! First, the negatives: The fabric choices recommended are very limited, and innapropriate for the period, such as silk shantung, which would of course be too slubbed. They have the bodice made in a fabric matching the forepart, where it should match the overskirt and sleeve caps. Both of these problems relate to the pattern being a copy of the movie costume, of course. The bodice is cut with too much curve at the front, and the neckline is too high. Both are easily fixable, as is the extremely long, curved center front point, which is period but quite late. Making it shorter and less pronounced would work best for most bodies and would bring the gown into a wider time period. The good news is that this pattern is an absolutely top notch tutorial in making an elaborate costume using traditional high level theatrical technique. So often, home sewing technique gets applied to costumes, making them more difficult to sew and less attractive looking. This is the first commercial pattern I've ever seen that treats the subject the way it should be done. Here's some examples: The bum roll is mounted on a shaped hip yoke, which will keep it from sliding out of place and give more support to the heavy skirts. The farthingale is the accurate shape. The wasitband teaches the method of sandwiching the upper edge between two pieces of grosgrain ribbon to make a flat, sturdy band. The underskirt is made of taffeta, to allow the overskirt to move freely. The forepart is of brocade, and instructions are given for highligting the pattern with a metallic paint pen and gluing pearls. The overskirt is cartridge pleated onto the same waistband as the underskirt, eliminating bulk. Not a period practice, but practical. The bodice has a double layer of muslin flatlining, with channels stitched for boning. the entire front is solidly boned. This technique results in a virtual built in corset. (They recommend featherboning or Rigeline. My past experience tells me feather boning is a terrible choice, Rigeline might work. I would probably use flat steel boning.) The bodice edges are finished with piping, and the piping seam allowances are turned to the inside and slipstitched down to finish the edges so that no turning is neccesary. It fastens up the back with hooks and eyes, although lacing could also be used. The sleeves are the correct shape, but I would change the construction, making the false puff at the upper arm into a seperately made cap sleeve, and using the straight sleeve pattern to make a detachable sleeve tied into the armscye. I'm not sure from the diagrams, but I believe the sleeve may have a self gusset built in at the underarm. The partlet is cut to fit closely into the neck edge, bound with twill tape, and has snaps to hold it in. For authenticity and ease of construction, I'd probably cut it as a simple rectangle several inches larger than the neckline and hold it in with pins, if necessary. The neck and wrist ruffs are cartridge pleated. I don't believe this was as common a method as many would have us think, but I won't quibble about its use here. They are made out of picot-edged ribbon, so that the picot loops on the edge can be used to count the pleats while cartridge pleating them. One thing the pattern lacks is a hat. the "Shakespeare In Love" dress was worn with a diadem/wreath of golden leaves, but the pattern shows it with a gold headband, not an adequate substitute. All in all, I'm delighted by this pattern. The next time there's a $.99 pattern sale, I'm going to buy about 20 of this one to hand out to the students in my Elizabethan costume class. I will, of course, write up an addendum page explaining how to make the necessary changes, and I'll put it on my website as soon as it's done. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 12:49:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16872 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:49:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11029; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:01:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09073 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:00:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09067 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:00:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-123.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.123]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA21924 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 11:00:51 -0700 Message-ID: <003501beecc8$826abc40$7baba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: those patterns again... Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 11:02:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" I can't find the Elizabethan pattern anywhere. I checked Joann's, Hancock's and Wal-Mart. I found the Celtic and Rennaisance ones but not the Elizabethan one. Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 12:50:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16878 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:50:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11225; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:02:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09220 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:02:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09212 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:02:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-123.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.123]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA21963 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 11:02:27 -0700 Message-ID: <003701beecc8$bb832120$7baba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: Winter and Savoy Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 11:04:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" Hi all, Having never attempted Elizabethan wear, I was wondering how accurate the book by Winter and Savoy is as far as creating Elizabethan clothes? Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 13:08:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16920 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:08:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13347; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:20:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10851 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:20:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10844 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:20:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p25.directcon.net [206.170.184.74]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA06737 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 11:19:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 11:19:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908221819.LAA06737@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: those patterns again... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:02 AM 08/22/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Broneske" > >I can't find the Elizabethan pattern anywhere. I checked Joann's, Hancock's >and Wal-Mart. I found the Celtic and Rennaisance ones but not the >Elizabethan one. > Joan, aren't you in the Sacramento area? I found it yesterday at the Joanne's on Folsom, near Zinfandel. It was in the Halloween display near the costumes, not back in the pattern section. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 13:14:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16926 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:14:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13865; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:26:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11532 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:26:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11521 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:26:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.130 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 11:26:01 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Nursing Mothers in Period Art Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 14:34:14 -0400 Message-ID: <000301beeccd$0a6cb5e0$820bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" These paintings support the "pop it over the top" attitude. Some show lacing at center front eased open slightly, indicating that unlacing for nursing was not really necessary, but that the neckline was stressed a little doing it this way. 1435 Van Der Weyden http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa//weyden/p-weyden19.htm ? Van der Weyden http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa//weyden/p-weyden22.htm ? Van der Weyden http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa//weyden/p-weyden18.htm 1400's Jan van Eyck http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/eyck/p-eyck15. 1400's Campin http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/c/p-campin4.htm No nursing taking place in this one, http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/unknown/p-unknow28.htmbut the Luttrell Psalter shows a a man being armed by his wife and daughter, each dressed in cotehardie and one (at least) in sideless surcote, c. 12th Century, (although I think the Luttrell Psalter actually dates from a few centuries later). It's an exquisite image, so I sneak it in whenever I can! It is easy to imagine nursing access under the sideless surcote to openings in the 10-gore dress. Note the similarities in cutting lines with the first image on the 10-gore dress site (for those who missed it, at http://www.virtualelpaso.com/neverwinter/dress/dress.htm). Putting lacing over each breast slit on the undergown is unnecessary, as someone pointed out. It can be documented, but its unnecessary. For the standard 4-part shift gathered to a neckline the following adjustment produces dandy nursing slits. Cut the front up to a foot wider than usual if you can, but it's not entirely necessary if the smock pattern you use is roomy to begin with. The technique is to lay out the wide shift front on the floor flat, then make a very deep vertical pleat over each breast about 3-4" deep (measured in the horizontal direction). It doesn't really matter which way the pleat goes--I've seen it both ways--but I prefer the top of the pleats pointing out towards the arms. The inside deepest part of the pleat is sliced open starting at the top of th breast down to a little above waist level and finished with a self hem. Baste the pleat firmly in place at the neckline. Then neckline is gathered into a band, smocked, whatever, to make it fit the desired neckline size. The pleat becomes undifferentiable from the gathers , and doesn't fall open accidently. The user will ofen have trouble finding it! And no lacing is required. Access is easy a long as you can find it. The same technique in both undergown and overgown will never accidently reveal. Modern nursing nightgowns are made in this manner. Sorry, I haven't tried to document it back to any historic period. Center slits on all styles of smocks is an easier and documentable solution for almost everyperiod, but you end up revealing more of yourself during nursing, which isn't everyone's preference. Lacing not required in the center front opening of a smock, just a tie at the top or button of some kind, or nothing if you're in the corset period, because the corset holds it in place. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 13:18:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16930 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:18:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14173; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:30:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11944 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:30:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11937 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:30:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-123.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.123]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA22657 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 11:30:14 -0700 Message-ID: <011801beeccc$9d89f460$7baba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: those patterns again... Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 11:31:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" Yes, I am, Roseville. I checked the Jo-Ann's on Douglas Blvd and the Hancock's on Auburn. Maybe they just don't have them in the display yet. I'll just have to keep checking back. Thanks. Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 13:26:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16936 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:26:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14732; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:38:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA12697 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:38:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12688 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:38:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p25.directcon.net [206.170.184.74]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA08055 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 11:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 11:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908221837.LAA08055@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Winter and Savoy Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:04 AM 08/22/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Broneske" > >Hi all, > >Having never attempted Elizabethan wear, I was wondering how accurate the >book by Winter and Savoy is as far as creating Elizabethan clothes? > It's a good starter. They use too much home-sewing technique for my tastes. As I said earlier today, the Simplicity pattern will give you a good grounding in costume technique. I'd skip the corset section and use Drea's pattern generator. Some of the errors that stand out are that they show men's doublets with back lacing, which I believe is a theatrical invention. Upperclass women's overskirts were not fastened to their underskirts with ribbon points. They say that a partlet is a woman's high necked chemise, which it is not. The partlet is the dickey like fill in, the high necked chemise is a chemise, smock, or may have been called a shirt. The book gives the impression that the upperclass overskirt and bodice were always seperate garments, which is not the case. The instructions for converting a darted pattern to an undarted one result in a distorted armhole/neckline area in a low necked bodice, and verge on the unwearable for the high necked bodice. The low necked bodice problem can be solved by making up a test garment according to their instructions and either darting the neckline or inserting a gusset, then tracing the resultant shape for a new pattern. the high necked version will need a shaping seam running from shoulder to waist for most bodies over an A cup. Thy make much use of a standard modern straight sleeve pattern with an underarm seam, but most fitted Elizabethan sleeves will look and feel better if you use a two piece curved coat sleeve pattern. they recommend grommets for lacing, which are, of course, out of period. Either make sewn eyelets or oversew the grommets. I still think the book is useful for those starting out with Elizabethans, if only for its clear and concise, "you can do it" attitude. Without this book to get me started, I might not be where I am today. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 13:45:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16950 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:45:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16306; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:58:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA14497 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:57:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14490 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:57:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA10459 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 11:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-200.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.200]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA15613 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 11:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002701beecd0$d58a0ea0$8480fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Nursing Mothers in Period Art Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:02:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" I was quite amused! Everyone of these nursing mothers are using their right breast. Do ya think that they might be lopsided? -----Original Message----- From: Hope H. Dunlap To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sunday, August 22, 1999 11:29 AM Subject: H-COST: Nursing Mothers in Period Art > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >These paintings support the "pop it over the top" attitude. >Some show lacing at center front eased open slightly, >indicating that unlacing for nursing was not really >necessary, but that the neckline was >stressed a little doing it this way. > >1435 Van Der Weyden >http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa//weyden/p-weyden19.htm > ? Van der Weyden >http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa//weyden/p-weyden22.htm > ? Van der Weyden >http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa//weyden/p-weyden18.htm >1400's Jan van Eyck >http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/eyck/p-eyck15. > 1400's Campin http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/c/p-campin4.htm > >No nursing taking place in this one, >http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/unknown/p-unknow28.htmbut the >Luttrell Psalter shows a a man being armed by his wife and >daughter, each dressed in cotehardie and one (at least) in >sideless surcote, c. 12th Century, (although I think the >Luttrell Psalter actually dates from a few centuries later). >It's an exquisite image, so I sneak it in whenever I can! >It is easy to imagine nursing access under the sideless >surcote to openings in the 10-gore dress. Note the >similarities in cutting lines with the first image on the >10-gore dress site (for those who missed it, at >http://www.virtualelpaso.com/neverwinter/dress/dress.htm). > >Putting lacing over each breast slit on the undergown is >unnecessary, as someone pointed out. It can be documented, >but its unnecessary. For the standard 4-part shift gathered >to a neckline the following adjustment produces dandy >nursing slits. Cut the front up to a foot wider than usual >if you can, but it's not entirely necessary if the smock >pattern you use is roomy to begin with. The technique is to >lay out the wide shift front on the floor flat, then make a >very deep vertical pleat over each breast about 3-4" deep >(measured in the horizontal direction). It doesn't really >matter which way the pleat goes--I've seen it both ways--but >I prefer the top of the pleats pointing out towards the >arms. The inside deepest part of the pleat is sliced open >starting at the top of th breast down to a little above >waist level and finished with a self hem. Baste the pleat >firmly in place at the neckline. Then neckline is gathered >into a band, smocked, whatever, to make it fit the desired >neckline size. The pleat becomes undifferentiable from the >gathers , and doesn't fall open accidently. The user will >ofen have trouble finding it! And no lacing is required. >Access is easy a long as you can find it. The same >technique in both undergown and overgown will never >accidently reveal. Modern nursing nightgowns are made in >this manner. Sorry, I haven't tried to document it back to >any historic period. > >Center slits on all styles of smocks is an easier and >documentable solution for almost everyperiod, but you end >up revealing more of yourself during nursing, which isn't >everyone's preference. Lacing not required in the center >front opening of a smock, just a tie at the top or button of >some kind, or nothing if you're in the corset period, >because the corset holds it in place. > >Hope H. Dunlap > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 13:50:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16956 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:50:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16775; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:03:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA15004 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:02:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14996 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:02:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA11591 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:02:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-200.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.200]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA17709 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000601beecd1$87c35cc0$8480fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Nursing Mothers in Period Art Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:07:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Every one of these nursing moms are using their right breast. Do ya think that they might be lopsided? ;) I was highly amused! I wasn't able to see the last picture (sunsite). I was told that it was removed to update... >1435 Van Der Weyden >http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa//weyden/p-weyden19.htm > ? Van der Weyden >http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa//weyden/p-weyden22.htm > ? Van der Weyden >http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa//weyden/p-weyden18.htm >1400's Jan van Eyck >http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/eyck/p-eyck15. > 1400's Campin http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/c/p-campin4.htm > >No nursing taking place in this one, >http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/unknown/p-unknow28.htmbut the >Luttrell Psalter shows a a man being armed by his wife and >daughter, each dressed in cotehardie and one (at least) in >sideless surcote, c. 12th Century, (although I think the >Luttrell Psalter actually dates from a few centuries later). _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 14:05:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16979 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 14:05:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18058; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:17:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16409 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:17:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16402 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:17:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.61 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 12:16:38 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Nursing Mothers in Period Art Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 15:24:16 -0400 Message-ID: <000001beecd4$18644940$3d0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <000601beecd1$87c35cc0$8480fea9@gunsafes> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Sorry, my text got sucked into the active URL . Here it is again correctly: http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/unknown/p-unknow28.htm The Luttrell psaltar with the sideless surcotes and cotehardies. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Michelle > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 1999 3:07 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Nursing Mothers in Period Art > > > > > > I wasn't able to see the last picture (sunsite). I was > told that it was > removed to update... > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 14:44:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17024 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 14:44:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22428; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:56:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA20144 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:55:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20134 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 13:55:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.143]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Sun, 22 Aug 1999 14:55:23 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Nursing Mothers in Period Art Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 19:49:40 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37ce4b7a.173520264@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <000301beeccd$0a6cb5e0$820bfdd0@sharp-9070-> In-Reply-To: <000301beeccd$0a6cb5e0$820bfdd0@sharp-9070-> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA20139 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) It's important to note the differences, as well as the similarities, between these pictures: >1435 Van Der Weyden >http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa//weyden/p-weyden19.htm The 'neckcloth' looks as though it might also have been her hair covering, or a layer of her hair covering. Of all the pictures, this one clearly shows (exept for what is obscured by her hand) that 'flop over the top and nurse' technique. > ? Van der Weyden >http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa//weyden/p-weyden22.htm The Virgin is shown wearing non-contemporary, antique, or allegorical dress. It looks as though she is intended to be shown in garments similar to those worn by religious statuary. That said, it appears that she is simply nursing thru the vertical slit portion of a high keyhole-cut neck opening. Similar to the flop over the top, but somewhat different in implementation, and possibly easier and more comfortable. Certainly a good suggestion for those who wear any period of clothing with a keyhole cut neckline. > ? Van der Weyden >http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa//weyden/p-weyden18.htm This Virgin is wearing a loose, v-neck houppelande, belted high under the breasts. It is worn over a red kirtle and a shift. The houppelande is simply pulled aside enough to permit some loosening of the laces of the kirtle, and the kirtle and shift are pulled aside enough to allow the breast to be moved to position that is workable for nursing. There is no evidence of a neckcloth. This is probably the most contemporarily dressed of all teh ladies discussed. >1400's Jan van Eyck >http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/eyck/p-eyck15. This appears to be a mixture of contemporary (her sleeves) and classical/antique/allegorical dress. Very little information can be gleaned from this painting, as the Virgin is covered so nearly completely (perhaps to suggest a seemly modesty) by her cloak. She also both supports her breast and hides her immodesty with her hand in such a way that we cannot tell, in this reproduction, how her gown is fastened, if it has a fastening at all. THis picture is inconclusive as far as nursing access technique is concerned. > 1400's Campin http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/c/p-campin4.htm This Virgin is dressed very interestingly. It looks as though she is wearing some sort of wrapped-style [1]fur-lined overgown or houppelande (inferred from the corners on the front skirt edge as well as the vertical edge laying over the Virgin's lap with nowhere explicable to go except up, although this may simply be a strangely drawn drapery) wit a high neck. She seems to be wearing a kirtle of the same hue with a decorated hem, with very tight dark blue sleeves probably pinned on underneath. The shift appears to have a similar high neck and vertical opening from the high neck. They appear to have been simply pulled aside, but we cannot see the kirtle due to the way the fabric of the overgown and the shift have bunched, as well as the way the Child and the Virgin's hand are posed. It is inconclusive as to whether she has 'flopped' or unlaced to gain nursing access. Margery [1] I've seen this sort of wrap-front dress (which the odd drapery leads me to believe this might possibly be) in only one place, which is the illustration on the cover of 'A History of Private Life, vol II, Revelations of the Medieval World' Aries & Duby, eds. The ladies in attendance on the couple depicted as the focal point of the illustration are wearing a wrap-front gown which may be a casual way to wear a later form of houppelande. Has anyone seen similar depictions of this way of wearing this dress? "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 16:05:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17179 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:05:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00892; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 15:17:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA27928 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 15:17:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27920 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 15:17:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990822211711.PARH1639.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 14:17:11 -0700 Message-ID: <37C068DD.9867A84C@home.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:17:17 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Nursing Mothers in Period Art References: <000301beeccd$0a6cb5e0$820bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent This site: http://www.breastfeeding.com/artgallery.html has an art gallery which includes "antiquity through the 17th century"; "art of the 17th and 18th century" and "modern art". This is one of the sites that I use when first researching nursing outfits after my son was born. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 17:06:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17289 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:06:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06299; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:18:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03690 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:17:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03684 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:17:22 -0600 (MDT) From: Morghana@aol.com Received: from Morghana@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6KKGa03711 (3965) for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:16:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3c45a757.24f1d0d2@aol.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:16:50 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #502 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Morghana@aol.com In a message dated 8/22/99 3:00:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Margo Anderson@indra.com writes: << From: Margo Anderson Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 09:57:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: H-COST: Review of the New Simplicity Elizabethan Pattern - -Poster: Margo Anderson I bought the new Simplicity "Shakespeare In Love" pattern yesterday. I was very surprised to find that my final review of it is that it's FABULOUS!!! First, the negatives: The fabric choices recommended are very limited, and innapropriate for the period, such as silk shantung, which would of course be too slubbed. They have the bodice made in a fabric matching the forepart, where it should match the overskirt and sleeve caps. Both of these problems relate to the pattern being a copy of the movie costume, of course. The bodice is cut with too much curve at the front, and the neckline is too high. Both are easily fixable, as is the extremely long, curved center front point, which is period but quite late. Making it shorter and less pronounced would work best for most bodies and would bring the gown into a wider time period. The good news is that this pattern is an absolutely top notch tutorial in making an elaborate costume using traditional high level theatrical technique. So often, home sewing technique gets applied to costumes, making them more difficult to sew and less attractive looking. This is the first commercial pattern I've ever seen that treats the subject the way it should be done. Here's some examples: The bum roll is mounted on a shaped hip yoke, which will keep it from sliding out of place and give more support to the heavy skirts. The farthingale is the accurate shape. The wasitband teaches the method of sandwiching the upper edge between two pieces of grosgrain ribbon to make a flat, sturdy band. The underskirt is made of taffeta, to allow the overskirt to move freely. The forepart is of brocade, and instructions are given for highligting the pattern with a metallic paint pen and gluing pearls. The overskirt is cartridge pleated onto the same waistband as the underskirt, eliminating bulk. Not a period practice, but practical. The bodice has a double layer of muslin flatlining, with channels stitched for boning. the entire front is solidly boned. This technique results in a virtual built in corset. (They recommend featherboning or Rigeline. My past experience tells me feather boning is a terrible choice, Rigeline might work. I would probably use flat steel boning.) The bodice edges are finished with piping, and the piping seam allowances are turned to the inside and slipstitched down to finish the edges so that no turning is neccesary. It fastens up the back with hooks and eyes, although lacing could also be used. The sleeves are the correct shape, but I would change the construction, making the false puff at the upper arm into a seperately made cap sleeve, and using the straight sleeve pattern to make a detachable sleeve tied into the armscye. I'm not sure from the diagrams, but I believe the sleeve may have a self gusset built in at the underarm. The partlet is cut to fit closely into the neck edge, bound with twill tape, and has snaps to hold it in. For authenticity and ease of construction, I'd probably cut it as a simple rectangle several inches larger than the neckline and hold it in with pins, if necessary. The neck and wrist ruffs are cartridge pleated. I don't believe this was as common a method as many would have us think, but I won't quibble about its use here. They are made out of picot-edged ribbon, so that the picot loops on the edge can be used to count the pleats while cartridge pleating them. One thing the pattern lacks is a hat. the "Shakespeare In Love" dress was worn with a diadem/wreath of golden leaves, but the pattern shows it with a gold headband, not an adequate substitute. All in all, I'm delighted by this pattern. The next time there's a $.99 pattern sale, I'm going to buy about 20 of this one to hand out to the students in my Elizabethan costume class. I will, of course, write up an addendum page explaining how to make the necessary changes, and I'll put it on my website as soon as it's done. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm >> Margo, Thank you, thank you, and THANK YOU for the assessment of this pattern!! I am so thrilled that someone bothered to actually look at and assess the *pattern* rather than just sniping about using Janet Arnold or drafting ones' own. (I also hope you send that feedback to Simplicity, so they are encouraged to try reproducing more patterns that are based in history rather than Hollywood or fantasy.....) I also bought the pattern and have gone over it. I found most of the same things you did (and your assessment makes me want to go back and look again for what I missed). Again, thanks for the review of the positives and negatives--when you get that up on your website I'll be using it as a reference for people who want to start Elizabethan, but don't know where......... ~Morghana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 17:59:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17334 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:59:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10320; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:10:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08832 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:10:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08824; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:10:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:10:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908222310.RAA08824@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: lrish liene Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson A RECENT H-COSTUME THREAD, OR, MORE THAN YOU WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT LEINES Here's what I saved from the last time we went through this. >I'm looking for citations to refute the idea that 16th century Irish leines had those huge sleeves that are popular in ren Faire circles. You know the ones: they are usually pleated, gathered, or have a drawstring sewn into them. Striking as they are, I'm under the impression that they are a costume myth, mainly based on misinterpreting a drawing or painting of a wide, open sleeve pushed up on the wearer's arm to form folds of fabric. > >Margo Anderson >-Poster: "Kyna Grannd" > >I'd suggest you go to >http://reconstructinghistory.com/fenians/IrishClothes.htm I'm pretty sure >that Kass may monitor this mailing list and so might interject. Thought I'd >say that I was at a talk she gave last week where my favorite thing she said >was that she wanted to cry when it was lunch time and ask someone to feed >her so she didn't have to wash off the 300+ year old dust from her hands. > >Anyway, she has been to Ireland and the bowels of some museums there >recently. Her new notes on the Shinrone gown and Leines are there. >Basically, the bag sleeves are very much correct. HOWEVER, what is incorrect >is the concept of pleats or drawstrings on the upper arm. To describe the >sleeve in words, it would be shoulder to wrist length on the top of the arm >and bagged at the underside. She has drawings at the URL mentioned above. > >Also, she was very helpful and would probably answer any questions sent via >email in case she doesn't read this mailing list. > > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >The use of drawstrings is something I can't comment on, but >period writings and illustrations definitely support lots of >fabric, pleats and more pleats. Huge, droopy sleeves to the >hip, knee, or ankle show up a lot, but jackets cover up the >sleeve in many old illustrations, leaving us to guess >precisely what was underneath. The Lucas de Heere >watercolors, circa 1570, show bag-style leine sleeves down >to the ankle or knee, or just to the hip, depending on which >painting you're looking at. The people certainly didn't >wear the huge sleeve for everything, nor did all people >appear to wear it, but there they are. Period writings >mention the volume of fabric, the pleats, and sleeves almost >to the ground, again and again. ILL if you have to Henry >Foster McClintock's *Old Irish and Highland Dress* printed >1943, 1949 and copyrighted 1950 Dundalgan Press, Dublin or >closeby, Ireland. Try also the Palkenham's fairly recent >book about Dublin (Pakenham, Thomas and Valerie. *Dublin, A >Traveler's Companion,* Great Britian: Constable and Company, >and New York: Athenaeum, Macmillan Publishing Company, 1988. >ISBN 0-689-70741-X) which is widely available in the travel >sections of libraries, and may even still be in print, for a >great collection of woodblock prints and period writings >from about 1000-1930. I the biggest difference I can see >with the leines illustrated on SCA type WebPages and the >period illustrations is that the real leines are pictured as >a wrap-around style with a shawl (bathrobe-style) collar. >It doesn't appear to be a shirt which goes over the head, or >if it does, it is worn in a way which disguises that. Also, >the de Heere watercolors show a bag style sleeve, not a >sleeve like an over-long shirtsleeve which might be gathered >up. One arm and hand opening in the upper part of a boy's >bag sleeve is even embroidered with red floss to highlight >the opening. Mairead Dunlevy's *Dress in Ireland* doesn't >address your particular questions in any depth, but there >are some woodblock illustrations in there which will help >you. Do ILL it too if you have an interest in things Irish, >as it is a marvelous book. She tries to cover a lot of >ground previously not published, and acknowledges >McClintock's previous and massive contribution. > >Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) > >On Mon, 22 Feb 1999 12:14:00 -0500, you wrote: > >> >>-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" >> >>The use of drawstrings is something I can't comment on, > >AFAIK the use of drawstrings developed out of the Renfaire community. >As I recall being told, people at first came up with it as a way to >roughly imitate the pleats (which from my mother's research on the >subject were supposed to be carefully laid in place and occasionally >secured/decorated/highlighted with a piece of braid, a strip of >embriodery or trim of some kind but most often left plain) without >having to do the hard work of stitching them individually in place. >Kind of a quick n' easy, trim built-in machine method. Later, the >convenience and utility of the drawstring was discovered - the sleeves >can be pulled up further (besides being pulled back and tucked into >the belt) for washing dishes and other messy tasks, or for cooling off >a bit in the heat that is usual at faires in the US. They could also >be let down a bit for warmth in event of a cold day. > >So, it is pretty clear to me, from what I've been told, and seen, that >drawstrings are a faire/SCA development. My mother does not recall >having found any references to drawstrings in her research some 20 >years ago, when she designed and made late medieval-rennaisance Irish >costumes for the group Sheila na Gig to perform and lecture in at the >DeYoung Museum, during the Treasures of Irish Art exhibit in 1977(8?) > >Mom even remembers some of the early evloution of Irish and Scots >costumes at the Northern/Southern California RenFaires, having 'been >there' as it were since the second one - so she is really my primary >source for that information. Apparently early on there was some >argument about whether the Irish even wore the leine (and whether it >could be worn by Irish persons at Faire) and she had to take her >documentation to the offices and argue it out. This would have been in >about 1978 or 9. >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >The pleats show up at the waist when the garment is belted >or girdled with a "criss." They also are where the sleeve >attaches to the "armsythe"---not really a curved armsythe as >we know it, but the selvedge edge opening where the sleeve >attaches to the body. The pleats also show up at the wrist, >or if its a bag sleeve, at the bottom of the bag where the >fabric is gathered together. The >www.ReconstructingHistory.com webpages replicate a lot of >the period artwork, although the drawings are much clearer >in books. If you can just put yourself in front of the >period drawings, a lot of these mysteries (but not all!) >will evaporate. The pleating was strategically important in >soldiers' clothing, as all those layers of pleated linen >acted like a crude layered linen armoring jacket---and >deflected sword blows. The Scots anyway (also Celts, with >similar dress) would tar over those pleats with pitch before >a battle to reinforce them, sometimes sticking skins on the >top for more battle protection. >Hope H. Dunlap > > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >One 19th Century author who was also puzzling over those >pleats surmised that the original Irish leine and heavy over >robe were similar to Roman garb. He suggested the leine >might have originally been a single piece (perhaps pieced, I >don't know) of fabric stretching from wrist to wrist (at a >minimum, it could be more!) and from front hem to back hem >with a head hole in the middle. (That's a rectangle a >minimum of two yards wide (it could be wider) and about 3-4 >yards the other way(from your toes up over your shoulders to >your heels). The whole thing gets girdled in at the waist, >creating an enormous amount of pleats, but there are no >pleats actually sewn in at the shoulders. Now if you sliced >from the neckhole down the front, you'd be approaching a >kimono cut, and then there becomes a way to get that cowled >wrap-over front closure and neckline. The slice wouldn't >have to go all the way down, maybe just to the waist or so. >When you look at all the period illustrations, it becomes >clear that there are several versions of the leine, but I do >find his theory very plausible both from a historical and a >geometrical point of view. > >Hope H. Dunlap > > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >Henry Foster McClintock deals with the origins of the leine >in tremendous detail in Old Irish and Highland Dress, 1950, >and seems to support the concept of its Roman origins. I >haven't read the whole thing, having just got it on ILL >myself, but he goes through an enormous amount of art and >literature seeking exactly the answers to your questions. >Hope H. Dunlap > > >-Poster: Gail DeCamp > > > >I talked to the RPFN Scots costume expert (Clovis Carleton) in about >1992 or so; she said that they'd originally done the pleated bagpipe >sleeves.... until someone washed a leine after a hard weekend and was >hanging it out to dry when a really large and vicious-looking bug (I >believe it was a potato bug) crawled out of one of the sleeve pleats. > >Yes, this is after the garment had already been through the washer. > >This induced the entire scots guild to begin making leines that gathered >on a string, and could be stretched out completely when washed. > >Cheers! > >Gail > >(Disclaimer: This is the way I remember it; anyone who remembers >it more accurately is welcome to correct me!) -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/22/99 9:59:14 AM Pacific Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: > > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > > >The use of drawstrings is something I can't comment on, but > >period writings and illustrations definitely support lots of > >fabric, pleats and more pleats. > > Yes, but where? The pictures I've seen don't support the modern version > with pleats along the top of the arm. Several of these pictures show the > top of the arm quite clearly, and all I see there are folds of fabric, > exactly what would result if you took a wide, wrist length sleeve and pushed > it up toward your elbow. Yes, exactly. There are comments about pleats, but the pleats over the sleeve are an invention of the Renaissance Pleasure Faires in California. I watched it happen, and even helped it along by publishing an article in the SCA's Tournaments Illuminated. Once or twice a year now I have to both apologize and try to talk people out of using that article as primary documentation. Too, we always have to face the problem of translation in costume research. Which garment was pleated? "Manifoldly pleated" isn't it? Well, if there's a lot of fabric in the body of the leine, it's going to "pleat" under the belt. So will a brat or even (she said carefully) something the might be mistaken for a great kilt. There's no evidence for pleating on top of the arm. It's most useful to actually cut the sleeve to finish shorter than shoulder to wrist. The drawstring trick was a specific invention of Clan MacColin's washer women "working the well" at Southern Faire back in the late 70s-early 80s. And they told two friends. And they told two friends.... MaggiRos or Mairghread-Ros FitzGarret of Desmond, etc etc >-Poster: "Abbott, Ruth" > >Ok, I am firmly convinced that the "SCA usual" way to make a leine is >just plain incorrect. Will someone (MaggiRos, perhap?) please tell us >all the right way to make a leine? I have mulled this over for a while >and re-examined the evidence I have, and I still come up with the idea >that (at it's most voluminous) a leine had pleats along the shoulders >and down the arm. Sewn in pleats, I'm thinking, but still pleats. So, >how would you (anyone that has more complete ideas on this) go about >making one? > >Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com > >In a message dated 2/26/99 10:09:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, r-abbott@oar- >xch1.oar.uiuc.edu writes: > >> >> Ok, I am firmly convinced that the "SCA usual" way to make a leine is >> just plain incorrect. Will someone (MaggiRos, perhap?) please tell us >> all the right way to make a leine? I have mulled this over for a while >> and re-examined the evidence I have, and I still come up with the idea >> that (at it's most voluminous) a leine had pleats along the shoulders >> and down the arm. Sewn in pleats, I'm thinking, but still pleats. So, >> how would you (anyone that has more complete ideas on this) go about >> making one? > >Well now I'm intrigued. I was under the impression that SCA usual *was* with >a top-pleated sleeve, which I am here to testify is not documentable before >1979. > >Feel free to email me off-list to thrash it out :) For a faster response, >use my "working" screen name: NOVL Thorn@aol.com. Let's talk! > >MaggiRos >Thanks, everyone. I have copied this thread, along with older threads from the archives, to send tothe person who asked me for information, who is in charge of a large group of Irish actors at a major event (how's that for coy) and is considering doing away with leines pleated along the top of the arm. If this happens, and other people copy them, and other people copy THEM, people all over the world might be wearing the correct style in another 25 years. About which time new research will be done or old evidence discovered that will prove that something else about them is all wrong, and we'll start all over again! > >Margo Anderson > -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/26/99 11:27:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, margo@directcon.net writes: > and is considering doing away with leines pleated along the top of the > arm. If this happens, and other people copy them, and other people copy > THEM, people all over the world might be wearing the correct style in > another 25 years. What a thought! It always seems like only the errors get perpetuted! We live in hope! -Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com In a message dated 2/26/99 6:02:37 PM Pacific Standard Time, hhdunlap@email.msn.com writes: > When there were pleats going horizontally across > the arm and shoulder, were they sewn down? Maybe, but in > many cases clearly not. Trust me. If they weren't sewn down, the fabric would slip down the gathering threads and puddle at the wrist. Bad idea. Been there. I ain't buyin' it. > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >Have you read McClintock closely and studied the >illustrations? There is not just ONE correct way to sew an >Irish leine. McClintock describes many variations of the >Irish Leine, 8 of which I'll describe here (numbered). I >would agree that some of the sculptures show horizontal >pleats that must have been anchored in some way to way to >stay in the position they were in, but many of the pictures >show other arrangements of pleats, gathers, no pleats, and >here goes: > >(1) tunica style garments where the fabric width was just >wide enough (and no more) to span the shoulders and arms to >the wrists, so that it couldn't puddle (like the "English >print of Irish men," dating *perhaps* from the time of Henry >VIII in the Ashmolean Museum, opposite page 30). > >(2)The Pre-Norman engaged sculptures from the Shrine of St. >Moedoc, opposite page 11 in McClintock show an arrangement >of pleats which might have been sewn in on both the upper >and lower layers of clothing, more like the regular, >continuously stitched welts on the Shinrone Gown than >pleats. > >(3) The poor Irish people shown in Durer's drawing of 1521 >have on leines made out of absolutely minimal amount of >materials, with no pleats or gathers whatsoever. > >(4) There's another German drawing 1529-1532 of an Irish >woman showing her leine pleated and sewn into a neckband of >self material. > >(5) In the 1545 de Here watercolor of "The Irish People in >the Time of King Henry VIII," there are no stitched in welts >or pleats in the men's and boy's leines, which have flowing >bag sleeves to the ankles. The arms stick out though hole >in the upper front part of the sleeves, and the bottom 2 or >3 feet of the sleeves are vestigial, good only for pockets. >There's some evidence that this might have been unique to >the Limerick area. > >(6) Derrick's poem of 1581 mentions the leine of the Karne >(soldier) as short, not reaching past the knee, "with pleats >on pleats thei pleated are as thick as pleats may lie. >Whose sleves hang trailing doune almost unto the Shoe:" He >also mentions that they are strange. Does that mean they >are unique to soldiers, and that people in other walks of >life wear something else? Maybe, because > >(7) illustrations in the same book (Derrick's 1581), which >accompany that poem show a farmer and his wife being burned >out of their home, and their sleeves are not as voluminous >nor as anywhere near as long as those of the soldiers. > >(8) Another writing ot the same time, but referring to an >earlier time mentions a multiplicity of "gathers and >wrinkles." No mention of pleats. > >There is so much variation to the theme of the Irish leine, >depending on period, location, class, economic means, >activity, and sex of the wearer even in a single century, >that try to establish ONE correct way to sew a leine misses >the whole point. You can certainly devise a leine which is >arguably appropriate for a single persona, but not for an >entire nation over a millennium. > >Poster: MaggiRos@aol.com > >In a message dated 2/27/99 10:07:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, >hhdunlap@email.msn.com writes: > >> arne >> (soldier) as short, not reaching past the knee, "with pleats >> on pleats thei pleated are as thick as pleats may lie. >> Whose sleves hang trailing doune almost unto the Shoe:" He >> also mentions that they are strange. Does that mean they >> are unique to soldiers, and that people in other walks of >> life wear something else? Maybe, because >> >> (7) illustrations in the same book (Derrick's 1581), which >> accompany that poem show a farmer and his wife being burned >> out of their home, and their sleeves are not as voluminous >> nor as anywhere near as long as those of the soldiers. >> > >Someone must point out that Derrick never went to Ireland himself, so we have >to be careful. > > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >That's right. The publishing industry was not centered in >Ireland, so sketches and observations were brought back and >engraved or woodcut by others skilled in those media for >publication. Publishers were located in Dieppe, the Low >Countries, Germany, and later, London. All the observations >and sketches brought back by Explorers during the Age of >Exploration (Derrick's period, 1500's) which were published >were subjected to this process. Most of the explorers were >charged by their funding authorities to bring back logs and >sketches of everything they found. The published materials >survived far more frequently than the original working logs >and sketches. There wasn't the same economic reason for >Ireland to get this degree of scrutiny, unfortunately, and >what survives are accounts and images from travelers who >recognized the economic value of publishing what they saw, >but there was no Charter Company behind them demanding an >intense illustration and reporting effort. > >Art historians use the botanicals of the Middle Ages to show >the process of drawing and engraving from life versus >drawing and engraving successive generations of prints from >previous drawings. The further removed the artist is from >life, the more stylized and lifeless the artwork becomes, >and the more inaccuracies occur. It's sort of like the >children's game of "gossip" where all the players are >arranged in a row and a message is whispered down the line. >At the end of the game, the final version of the message is >compared with the original message. "Hilarity at the >disparity" is the most common result, although sometimes >(which is quite dull) the message comes through loud and >clear. The general rule is that the more times something is >replicated from the most recent secondary source, without >reference back to the original source (life) the more >inaccurate it is. > >In the Age of Exploration, there was little gain to the >publishers from imposing one's their own cultural >preconceptions on the incoming visual information. What >sold was information about the outlandish, not the everyday. >That's why things like the American crocodile ended up >embroidered on one of Queen Elizabeth's gowns--it was so >very strange, that it was mesmerizing. There was a whole >publishing industry founded on showing the outlandish to the >paying public. > >During the Age of Exploration (Derrick's period), there was >a very high degree of accuracy in general regarding the >images that returned from foreign places of flowers, >animals, and aboriginals. In the case of the exploration >of North America , there is enough information from various >sources to suggest that there was a pretty high degree of >accuracy in the published images. Interpretations of >intangibles such as culture, religion, and life styles were >bungled, but what they could see, they got right an awful >lot of the time. > >I admit that our hypotheses hang on a slender thread where >there are not corroborating artifacts and other information. >But it does behoove us to get out there and see all of the >original sources before generating an opinion. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 17:59:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17338 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:59:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10402; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:11:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08938 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:11:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08932; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:11:11 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:11:11 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908222311.RAA08932@net.indra.com> From: Carrie Veenstra To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Pants -was:Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carrie Veenstra ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEEB70.8CD6BB60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >These are baggies, and the easiest thing to get my newbies into ( 20th >century ren casual, we call it) >For Italian Ren, from what I've seen in paintings & such, the male >options are long gown and/or hose, sometimes knee-length TIGHT pants = over >hose, or meeting the hose at the knee... Pants as modern males tend to >accept them just don't seem to fit the silhouette for that place & = time. Why would a guy wear a certain upper garment, and not wear a suitable = lower body covering? Certain periods of male upper body coverings just look *awful* with "baggy pants". [Carrie Veenstra] I totally agree with you... the entire ensemble = should be from the same time & place..The guys I have sewn for range = from my husband and brother-in-law who are beginning to take interest in = SCA down to good friends that want to visit us or help work the booth at = the faires... I insist that they be in 'faire clothes' if they are going to hang = around the shop, and for the timid, I introduce them to a peasant shirt = & loose pants (non-threatening, inexpensive, and broadly = appropriate(accepted) for medieval & ren themed faires --much like the = lowerclass men's costume in "Elizabethan Costuming" by Winter & Savoy). = Getting them out of jeans & sweats is my goal at that point! Usually, = they become accustomed to seeing other men in hose (or tights), and = their next costume will be more involved, more expensive and = slightly(sometimes just) more upperclass. Added bonus being that the = cut of these peasant garments make for great loaner pieces, = one-size-fits-many. Now, for SCA... I'm still researching late 16th century Venetian, = because that's what my husband and brother-in-law wish to be -- my = Brother-in-law is already used to wearing tights, and we've picked out a = pattern (Period Patterns no. 43) including hose, a shirt, a doublet, and = a short over-gown (name escapes me at this moment) + a cape. My husband = on the other hand, while willing to wear hose underneath, opted for a = full gown. His own modesty, but perfectly appropriate in period. Not = every man allowed the shapeliness of his legs to be viewed in ANY period = -- but as far as I can tell, pants weren't the alternative. Even = venetians show a bit of shapeliness and accentuate the calves. ... in a more-or-less Elizabethan doublet with slashed panels on the sleeves. With it he is wearing a pair of loose = pants, obviously made to go with his doublet, cuz they have matching slashed panels running down the legs; they come down to his *ankles* (or the = tops of his feet, actually) and have a *lace cuff* there. These are pants of absolutely no period ... I'm guessing, because they *feel* like modern pants? [Carrie Veenstra] This sounds pretty awful..... I don't really know what the aversion to showing a little leg is, I just = know it's there. Threatened masculinity? Unfamiliarity with the = sillouette of the period? I'm in the bible belt... suggesting 'tights" = or "knee-pants" to a guy just doesn't usually take off with them = without some exposure to the intended environment. Baggy pants just won't look right with a short fitted Italian "doublet" = (is that a cotehardie?) from the late Renaissance. The darn thing was so = fitted and short in order to *show off* the wearer's body. If a guy is shy to = show off his legs, mixing up a short tight "doublet" with baggy pants will = just look awful (ok, so i'm being highly opinionated). [Carrie Veenstra] =20 I agree again.. There are plenty of long, medium and short - gowned = images from Late Ren Italy. The really really short doublets (I don't = know if it's technically the same as a cotehardie or not) were worn by = the (young) guys who really thought their legs were spiff... So, if a guy thinks some of historic lower body coverings look too = "weird" for him to wear, he kind of has two options: (1) if it's SCA (or a similar type of event) he should go with a period that incorporates some sort of "pants" in which he'd be comfortable and wear an appropriate upper body garment, rather than mixing and (mis)matching garments and periods; --or-- (2) wear a different outfit from the same period that allows him more "modesty" (for Ren Fairs or trying to match a woman's outfit). [Carrie Veenstra] I thought this was well-put and resisted snippage :-> = the only modification I would *possibly* find acceptable would be = clothing modified for fighting mobility and/or protection...but there = are SO many available options that choosing wisely from the styles we = have pictorial (or other) evidence of *should* be adequate. Carrie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 18:13:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17351 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:13:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11629; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:25:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10782 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:25:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10777 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:25:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990822232533.PZRX1639.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:25:33 -0700 Message-ID: <37C086F3.78C4E08C@home.com> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:25:39 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pants -was:Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! References: <199908222311.RAA08932@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent The times I've had to deal with baulky men/boys not wanting to wear tights I do one or more of several things. First, I point out that women *drool* over ballet dancers *because* they are wearing tights. Second, I point out someone they know and respect who wears tights. In the case of a high school production of the musical "Camelot" I had my husband (very obviously 'macho') come in wearing his full dress SCA complete with tights and swords etc who was obstinsibly 'teaching them how to bow in tunics (the director wanted 8th/9th C costumes). The boys immediately stopped complaining about wearing tights and asked if they could wear earrings too (my husband has both ears pierced). He started the SCA wearing very, very tight fitting sweat pants (about a size or two too small) which is often a good way to 'ease' a bashful male into tights. I've found that once you get them into tights and they realize how women react it's not difficult to keep them in tights! Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 18:28:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17379 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:28:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12947; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:40:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12778 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:40:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12760 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:40:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.77 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:40:10 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Nursing Mothers in Period Art Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 19:47:41 -0400 Message-ID: <000001beecf8$ea8e6e40$4d0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" 1240-50 Amesbury Psalter http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/zgothic/miniatur/1200-250/08e_ 1200.jpg 1321 Tino de Camaino http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/t/tino/charity1.jpg Sculpture entitled charity. This must be the undergown pictured? No evidence of any method of fastening the slits closed 1486-90 Italian Rennaissance : The lady in pink is wearing an overgown with a deep v-neck which provides easy access the layers below Ghirlandaio http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/g/ghirland/domenico/tornabuo/b irth.jpg and another of a wet nurse of the same period: http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/g/ghirland/domenico/tornabuo/b irthjoh.jpg 1519 Durer http://search.famsf.org/4d.acgi$Record?53600&=list&=1&=nursi ng%20&=and&=20&=0&=keywords&=Yes&=&=&=&= shows the mother wearing a jacket with wings, opened to reveal a chemise underneath with a slit open over the breast. Rubens, early 1600's. This is different! http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/r/rubens/graphics/portrait.jpg Are we looking at a *horizontal* nursing opening here?!? Francisco Zurbaran, Spanish, mid 1600's http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/z/zurbaran/mad_chil.jpg Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 18:34:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17385 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:34:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13478; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:46:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13418 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:45:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13410 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 17:45:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990822234536.NAJE410.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a>; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 16:45:36 -0700 Message-ID: <013d01beecf6$9853eee0$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: "HCostume" , References: <199908221657.JAA29678@zeus.directcon.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Review of the New Simplicity Elizabethan Pattern Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 19:32:26 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" Hi Margo, May I have permission to post this review to my pattern site, with credit to you and a link to your site? Thanks for your consideration. ~Kyna ----- > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > I bought the new Simplicity "Shakespeare In Love" pattern yesterday. I was > very surprised to find that my final review of it is that it's FABULOUS!!! > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 19:19:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17419 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 19:19:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16698; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:31:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17980 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:30:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17974 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 18:30:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clough (207-172-111-248.s248.tnt1.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.111.248]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA24264 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 20:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 20:30:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908230030.UAA24264@smtp1.erols.com> X-Sender: clough@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda and Larry Clough Subject: H-COST: Antarctic period costume Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough I am writing a novel, and am wrestling with the clothing that the first explorers of Antarctica wore. This would be the Scott expedition of 1911-12. I have books, journals, tons of fine photographs, but no verbal descriptions -- drat them, those men just did not want to write in their journals about their clothing! (Women would not have been so shy.) I need words, names, descriptions for these things. So! The bits I can identify include finnesko, the favorite outdoor footwear -- a soft fur boot. Big bulky fur mitts, too, over one and sometimes two layers of woolen mitts underneath, sometimes fingerless. A woolen balaclava which can roll up to be a hat that covers the ears. Here we wander beyond my knowledge. Can they really be wearing knickers? They must've frozen their butts off, I only hope the knickers were made of wool. Other times it looks like long narrow pants. There are glimpses of what looks like heavy socks pulled on over the bottoms of the pants. They are not wearing parkas on top. It looks more like some sort of windcheater or windproof smock. What is the right word for this thing? I assume that underneath there are sweaters? Some shots show what I assume are wind pants. The indoor photos show men in fine-gauge sweaters or ganseys, with loose turtlenecks or mock turtles, and something that could be a barn jacket over. Apparently it was felt to be unBritish to wear fur parkas and hoods like Eskimos. It looks like lunacy to the modern eye. Regards, Brenda Brenda W. Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD from Tor Books. http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 19:54:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17460 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 19:54:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20576; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 19:07:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA21315 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 19:06:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21301 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 19:06:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id KAA06091 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:36:23 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA02070; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:44:29 +0930 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:44:20 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Antarctic period costume In-Reply-To: <199908230030.UAA24264@smtp1.erols.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Sun, 22 Aug 1999, Brenda and Larry Clough wrote: > Here we wander beyond my knowledge. Can they really be wearing knickers? > They must've frozen their butts off, I only hope the knickers were made of > wool. Other times it looks like long narrow pants. There are glimpses of > what looks like heavy socks pulled on over the bottoms of the pants. They > are not wearing parkas on top. It looks more like some sort of windcheater > or windproof smock. What is the right word for this thing? I assume that > underneath there are sweaters? Some shots show what I assume are wind > pants. The indoor photos show men in fine-gauge sweaters or ganseys, with > loose turtlenecks or mock turtles, and something that could be a barn jacket > over. > > Apparently it was felt to be unBritish to wear fur parkas and hoods like > Eskimos. It looks like lunacy to the modern eye. Well they did find the frozen corpse of that guy who may have gotten to the top of Everest in the 20's, and he was wearing the sort of stuff you'd wear to go walking in the Lake District apparently. (Leather shoes, not boots, a tweed suit etc). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 20:42:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17588 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 20:42:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25395; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 19:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA26264 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 19:53:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay4.hawaii.edu (relay4.hawaii.edu [128.171.94.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA26257 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 19:53:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uhunix1.its.hawaii.edu ([128.171.44.6]) by relay4.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <373936(9)>; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 15:53:42 -1000 Received: from localhost by uhunix1.its.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <135732(9)>; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 15:53:37 -1000 Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 15:53:33 -1000 From: X-Sender: lisaleon@uhunix1 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Nursing Mothers in Period Art In-Reply-To: <37ce4b7a.173520264@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: On Sun, 22 Aug 1999, StrangeGirl wrote: > [1] I've seen this sort of wrap-front dress (which the odd drapery > leads me to believe this might possibly be) in only one place, which > is the illustration on the cover of 'A History of Private Life, vol > II, Revelations of the Medieval World' Aries & Duby, eds. The ladies > in attendance on the couple depicted as the focal point of the > illustration are wearing a wrap-front gown which may be a casual way > to wear a later form of houppelande. Has anyone seen similar > depictions of this way of wearing this dress? I've seen it a few times but these are the only ones I can remember offhand or find pictures of at the moment. -The Medieval Woman, an Illuminated Book of Days for the week of March 1-6: Family scene, wife spinning with distaff Bourdichon, Les quatre etats de la societe. "Le travail" French, fifteenth century, Ecole des Beaux-Arts, Paris (Ph: Giraudon/Art Resource) -The Unicorn Tapestries in The Cloisters. The sixth tapestry where the unicorn is killed and brought to the castle has three women wearing wrap front gowns. annora _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 22 21:15:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18162 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 21:15:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28160; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 20:27:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA29768 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 20:27:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from stout.entertain.com (root@stout.entertain.com [199.45.153.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29753 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 20:27:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xpert.net (ppp014.xpert.net [204.144.221.66]) by stout.entertain.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA13516 for ; Sun, 22 Aug 1999 20:27:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <37C0B178.3B4848FC@xpert.net> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 20:27:04 -0600 From: Elizabeth Lee X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Simplicity pattern 0679 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Lee Greetings, I have been unable to find this pattern, Simplicity pattern 0679, in any of the stores in this area. Would someone on the list who _can_ find it be interested in buying it for me, and tell me the cost, and I will mail a check or money order to cover it, and the shipping? If so, please contact me privately. Ann _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 05:58:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA15398 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 05:58:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29958; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 05:06:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA02217 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 05:05:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA02205 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 05:05:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.86 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 04:04:42 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Antarctic period costume Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:10:45 -0400 Message-ID: <000001beed58$8d302440$560bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <199908230030.UAA24264@smtp1.erols.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Well, didn't they send a good deal of their time on cross-country (Nordic) skis? Wool knickers with a few pair of over the knee woolen socks and gaiters would be the traditional dress for Nordic skiing. It is still standard for reasons of practicality. You wear long underwear underneath. Chances ae the fellas called their clothing "equiment" or "gear" or somesuch. The purpose of the gaiters would be to add a windproof layer, keeps the snow out of the knit hose. Knickers allow much greater freedom of movement than pants, and are no more chilly. In warmer climes, pants have a nasty way of wicking moisture from the brush, grass, and snowdrifts up the leg where it then melts, freezes, etc. In a freezing climate, heavy tall sox over pants would be reasonable for cross-country skiing, with or with out the gaiters, because the last thing you need is pants flapping about your ankles as you are skiing along. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Brenda and Larry Clough > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 1999 8:31 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Antarctic period costume > > > > -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough > > I am writing a novel, and am wrestling with the clothing that > the first > explorers of Antarctica wore. This would be the Scott expedition of > 1911-12. I have books, journals, tons of fine photographs, > but no verbal > descriptions -- drat them, those men just did not want to > write in their > journals about their clothing! (Women would not have been so > shy.) I need > words, names, descriptions for these things. > > So! The bits I can identify include finnesko, the favorite > outdoor footwear > -- a soft fur boot. Big bulky fur mitts, too, over one and > sometimes two > layers of woolen mitts underneath, sometimes fingerless. A > woolen balaclava > which can roll up to be a hat that covers the ears. > > Here we wander beyond my knowledge. Can they really be > wearing knickers? > They must've frozen their butts off, I only hope the knickers > were made of > wool. Other times it looks like long narrow pants. There are > glimpses of > what looks like heavy socks pulled on over the bottoms of the > pants. They > are not wearing parkas on top. It looks more like some sort > of windcheater > or windproof smock. What is the right word for this thing? > I assume that > underneath there are sweaters? Some shots show what I assume are wind > pants. The indoor photos show men in fine-gauge sweaters or > ganseys, with > loose turtlenecks or mock turtles, and something that could > be a barn jacket > over. > > Apparently it was felt to be unBritish to wear fur parkas and > hoods like > Eskimos. It looks like lunacy to the modern eye. > > Regards, > Brenda > Brenda W. Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD from Tor Books. > http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 06:17:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15411 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 06:17:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01083; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 05:30:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03891 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 05:30:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03885 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 05:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.143 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 04:29:33 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Antarctic period costume Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:37:32 -0400 Message-ID: <000101beed5c$0735e7e0$560bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <000001beed58$8d302440$560bfdd0@sharp-9070-> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Nordic ski costume is very light, just a sweater and maybe an anorak over top, because the energy the skier puts out is tremendous. It is not unusual to be in shirtsleeves or bare arms when its well below freezing. The Antarctic expedition just flew, sometimes 200 miles per day. It's critical when you stop to have warm things to put on and to eat, preferably a warm house waiting with a kettle of soup on. Nordic skiing is not ideal for going overnight. It depends on a hut support system at each end, which obviously the Antarctic explorers didn't have. Heavier clothes and equipment really slows you down. You also sweat inside, so when you stop, you freeze. The debate for the Antarctic explorers was always "heavy and slow" or "fast and light." There are good arguments on both sides. The expedition did fail, so obviously their plan did not work. Norwegian gear might well have been the model for their equipage. By the way, good Nordic skiing shoes, even the ones they call boots, are still leather, and more like shoes than boots. Flexibility of the sole is essential, because the toe is attached to the ski, but the heel must come way up with every stride. What we think of as boots just wouldn't work, they would reduce the length of each stride to a "baby step," and there would be no glide and no speed. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message--- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Hope H. Dunlap > Sent: Monday, August 23, 1999 7:11 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: RE: H-COST: Antarctic period costume > > > > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > Well, didn't they send a good deal of their time on > cross-country (Nordic) skis? Wool knickers with a few pair > of over the knee woolen socks and gaiters would be the > traditional dress for Nordic skiing. It is still standard > for reasons of practicality. You wear long underwear > underneath. Chances ae the fellas called their clothing > "equiment" or "gear" or somesuch. The purpose of the gaiters > would be to add a windproof layer, keeps the snow out of the > knit hose. Knickers allow much greater freedom of movement > than pants, and are no more chilly. In warmer climes, pants > have a nasty way of wicking moisture from the brush, grass, > and snowdrifts up the leg where it then melts, freezes, etc. > In a freezing climate, heavy tall sox over pants would be > reasonable for cross-country skiing, with or with out the > gaiters, because the last thing you need is pants flapping > about your ankles as you are skiing along. > > Hope H. Dunlap > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com > [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of Brenda and Larry Clough > > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 1999 8:31 PM > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > Subject: H-COST: Antarctic period costume > > > > > > > > -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough > > > > I am writing a novel, and am wrestling with the clothing > that > > the first > > explorers of Antarctica wore. This would be the Scott > expedition of > > 1911-12. I have books, journals, tons of fine > photographs, > > but no verbal > > descriptions -- drat them, those men just did not want to > > write in their > > journals about their clothing! (Women would not have been > so > > shy.) I need > > words, names, descriptions for these things. > > > > So! The bits I can identify include finnesko, the favorite > > outdoor footwear > > -- a soft fur boot. Big bulky fur mitts, too, over one > and > > sometimes two > > layers of woolen mitts underneath, sometimes fingerless. > A > > woolen balaclava > > which can roll up to be a hat that covers the ears. > > > > Here we wander beyond my knowledge. Can they really be > > wearing knickers? > > They must've frozen their butts off, I only hope the > knickers > > were made of > > wool. Other times it looks like long narrow pants. There > are > > glimpses of > > what looks like heavy socks pulled on over the bottoms of > the > > pants. They > > are not wearing parkas on top. It looks more like some > sort > > of windcheater > > or windproof smock. What is the right word for this > thing? > > I assume that > > underneath there are sweaters? Some shots show what I > assume are wind > > pants. The indoor photos show men in fine-gauge sweaters > or > > ganseys, with > > loose turtlenecks or mock turtles, and something that > could > > be a barn jacket > > over. > > > > Apparently it was felt to be unBritish to wear fur parkas > and > > hoods like > > Eskimos. It looks like lunacy to the modern eye. > > > > Regards, > > Brenda > > Brenda W. Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD from Tor Books. > > http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > _____ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 07:59:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15509 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:59:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07234; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:13:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA13167 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:12:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from otma1.state.de.us (hidest.state.de.us [167.21.1.112]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13159 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:12:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bangate.state.de.us (bangate.state.de.us [167.21.4.130]) by otma1.state.de.us (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA12886 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:12:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by bangate.state.de.us with VINES-ISMTP; Mon, 23 Aug 99 9:14:41 EDT Date: Mon, 23 Aug 99 9:13:24 EDT Message-ID: X-Priority: 3 (Normal) To: From: "David W. Rickman" Subject: H-COST: Antarctic costume X-Incognito-SN: 378 X-Incognito-Version: 4.11.23 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "David W. Rickman" Hello, Regarding the query about the clothing worn on Scott's expedition, I have faced similar problems of finding out what explorers wore based on their diaries. It is true that men seldom mention what they are wearing, but it is usually because once they have purchased it and are wearing it, they seldom think about it again unless it gives them problems. The reason is simple: on expeditions like Scott's they had better things to worry about than clothing - survival for example. That is why I almost always look in two places for the gear an explorer takes on an expedition: first at the begining of their diary, when they are actually buying, trying on and getting used to their clothes. But a far better place to find these things out is in their lists of purchases or inventories of items taken on expedition. If you are lucky, these mundane records will have survived (and I cannot believe they have not survived for the Scott Expedition) and all you have to do is take the names on the list and match them to the garments seen in the photos. It may mean, however, working in archives in England to get the information you need. Good luck. David Rickman drickman@state.de.us _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 08:19:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15527 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:19:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08573; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:32:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA15633 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:32:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15624 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:32:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA10242.; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:37:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:31:21 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:30:57 +0100 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: Nursing mothers in period art Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id HAA15626 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" Hope - I don't think your Rubens lady is a nursing mother at all. The projection which might be seen as a baby's chin is the upper part of her puffed sleeve. It was a common fashion in the early 17th century to gather voluminous sleeves halfway down. Though she does seem to have a curious horizontal line below the top of her bodice on one side. BTW, your URLs nos. 1, 3, 4 & 5 didn't work for me. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 08:32:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15535 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:32:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09694; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:45:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA17305 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:45:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17286 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:45:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.38] (ell54.acadia.net [205.217.218.38]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA20373 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:44:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:46:24 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: antarctica Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> This depends entirely on what nationality you're dealing with. The Brits firmly refused to do anything the way the Scandinavians did, out of national pride and perversity. In consequence, they did bizarre things like insisting on taking gas-powered cars and trucks that, of course, refused to work in subzero temperatures. They insisted the cars would be superior to dogs and sleds. Several of the exploreres also refused to take along skiis. Frank Hurley's outstanding photographs of Shackleton's Endurance voyage (1914 - 17) have recently been reprinted. Because they're made from original glass plate negatives for the most part, the visible detail is staggering -- lots of guernsey sweaters and skin coats, knitted caps and fur ear-flap hats. There are plenty of books out on this expedition, including a couple of books called Endurance, as well as South (Shackleton's own account) and a major biography of Shackleton. Shackleton also insisted that all of his officers keep journals, and they do talk about clothing and provisioning. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 08:46:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15598 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:46:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11334; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:00:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA19544 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:59:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19530 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 07:59:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24512 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:58:27 -0400 Message-ID: <37C1538D.AFB0B0F1@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:01:39 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Antarctic period costume References: <000101beed5c$0735e7e0$560bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue The Fram Museum in Oslo has clothing from the various expeditions to the North and South poles. It was the ship that the first man to reach the South Pole, Amundson, took down there. The clothing that I remember was seal-fur trousers and coats, but I didn't take any notes. You may be able to find more info by web-searching on the Fram. -- "A cow is a dairy product!" - Sherman's Lagoon _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 09:51:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15636 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:51:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20033; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:04:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01195 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:02:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01188 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:02:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p27.directcon.net [206.170.184.76]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA04134 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:01:52 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:01:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908231501.IAA04134@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: antarctica Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Has anyone mentioned the National Geographic Society as a source for research on late 19th and 20th century explorers? Copious photos and articles have been printed in the magazine, in addition the Society sponsors expiditions and could probably make records available. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 10:01:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15652 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:01:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21495; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:14:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA03962 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:13:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web803.mail.yahoo.com (web803.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA03947 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:13:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990823151720.22699.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web803.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:17:20 PDT Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:17:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: antarctica To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney If anyone is looking for this stuff and knows which issue or around which issue they are looking for, I have just acquired all of the National Geographics from about 1970 to the present. I would be more than happy to look stuff up for people. Sarah --- Margo Anderson wrote: > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > Has anyone mentioned the National Geographic Society > as a source for > research on late 19th and 20th century explorers? > Copious photos and > articles have been printed in the magazine, in > addition the Society sponsors > expiditions and could probably make records > available. > > Margo Anderson > "One Tough Costumer" > http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 10:07:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15696 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:07:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22434; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:21:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05523 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:20:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05504 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:20:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zero.excite.com ([199.172.152.241]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990823152000.MMS296.kuku@zero.excite.com> for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:20:00 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Vancouver Silk (was Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn!) Message-Id: <935421600.23596.799@excite.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:20:00 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" > Charlotte and I already "talked" this morning and we're looking at mid Oct or > mid November. Any earlier would be brutal. And I am looking at making a > weekend of it not a day trip. But for all interested, lets get a list of > names and then take it privately. :) We'll figure something out. > > Merouda / Cynthia I've gone on a few 'silk safaris' myself, and found that the best time to hit the sari district in Vancouver is late January. Yes, the weather is crap, but the prices are even better than normal! Especially if you hit the place after the High Holy Days of the Muslim calendar. Lots of glitz, and everything on clearance! Kate ---- StitchWitch Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim. - Santayana, Life of Reason, 1905 ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 10:53:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15854 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:53:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00778; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:06:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17028 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:05:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17012 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:05:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00482 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C171C8.46386B4D@serv.net> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:07:36 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #495 References: <3e1b51ef.24f06ae6@aol.com> <37BF23D2.33BA5040@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > > it is the fact that no self > > respecting woman of any class in history until the 20th century would > > have let her bosom hang out like that. Never. > > What about the Minoans and the virgins of Queen Elizabeth I's court? I > was under the impression that both wore clothing which revealed the > nipple if not the entire bust. Consider this my response to the many who provided examples of bared bosoms... The examples you have listed have so far not been what I consider to be self respecting ladies. Actresses (there is always an exception made for art IMHO), Very Ancient peoples (okay, you're right, I didn't include this aspect :) ), and the virgins. Please elaborate on the virigins. I was under the impression that while a bit of the nipple might be visible they still wore proper corsetry etc. The breasts would not have been completely left hanging out of the bodice. (this is the look we were referring to for those of you who have forgotten what we were actually discussing and who have taken my comments out of context) > Or perhaps it's because it makes *them* feel attractive and sexy. I am sure that you are right about this. Gack. > You might consider this also...when I was in school our skirts were not > allowed to be above halfway down our thighs. I kept getting called to > the office because my skirts were "too short"....they weren't...I just > have very, very long thighs and it looks that way. I know that when I'm > wearing a front laced dress with a chemise that it's sitting a good inch > if not two away from my areolas but I've been accused of "almost showing > nipple". But you are not letting your breasts flap around in the breeze either. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 11:09:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15889 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:09:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04314; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:22:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21472 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:22:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA21466 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:22:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990823162611.24161.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:26:11 PDT Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:26:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: H-COST: Shoes? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I think this may have been addressed before but I don't remember the answer... what would a woman wearing Italian Renn wear on her feet? Certainly not the "moccasin boots" that we see at all the faires (this I know)... so, what should I look for? Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 11:42:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15968 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:42:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10405; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:56:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA29770 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:55:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29749 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:55:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p30.directcon.net [206.170.184.79]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA16804 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:55:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:55:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908231655.JAA16804@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #495 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >> What about the Minoans and the virgins of Queen Elizabeth I's court? I >> was under the impression that both wore clothing which revealed the >> nipple if not the entire bust. I have never seen a portrait of a lady of the court that even suggested that nipples could be visible. What is your reference for this? The low necked bodice is properly cut to the top of the nipple. the corset worn under it is closely fitted and worn very snug, and flattens the breasts, causing their top halfs to be pushed up in mounds. If the breasts are on the large size, the mounds can be, well, taller than one would expect, which might give the illusion that one is looking at a picture of bared breast and maybe the reproduction isn't good enough to see the nipples but they must be there.... There are, I believe, some contemporary letters and journals that describe the Queen and her ladies as having their bosoms bared. This does not mean entirely bared breasts, it means that the upper bosom was uncovered. These same people would refer to being "naked" when wearing a shirt without a doublet. IMHO, the only way a below the nipple cut can look attractive is if the breast in question are firm enough to stand up by themselves, i.e., under 15 years old or surgically enhanced: or if the bodice has gussets, cup sections, or complex darting, none of which were in use at this time. The same effect as a gusset can sometimes be achieved by wearing a front laced bodice and leaving the top fiew lacing holes undone, so that the top folds out on itself and forms a shelf for the breasts to sit on, but I've never seen an example of that being done in period. The Minoan statues I've seen suggest that a seperate "shelf" peice may have been seamed on under the bust line. As for the idea that breast could "accidentally" pop out of an Elizabethan corset, it's equally unlikely. The Hunnisett pattern for the Elizabethan corset, properly fitted, is so confining that is it impossible to get a breast out of it without unlacing, even after hours of sincere endeavor. (Never mind how I know, that's just an interesting piece of costume information) Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 11:45:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15972 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:45:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10849; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:58:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00444 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:57:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00436 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA01871 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 09:59:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C16E51.837674B5@serv.net> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 08:52:50 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Pants -was:Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > Baggy pants just won't look right with a short fitted Italian "doublet" (is > that a cotehardie?) from the late Renaissance. No, a coublet is not a cotehardie. :) Doublet's came along about 150 or more years later. I've been enjoying the thread on pants. I count myself fortunate to be costuming for a man who already owned his own tights before I met him. *g* Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 12:06:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16058 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:06:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13837; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:19:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06040 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:19:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06021 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:19:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA02384 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:20:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C182FA.ED7D7F71@serv.net> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:20:59 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: bezants? References: <199908140348.VAA15912@net.indra.com> <37B6FE86.7811@enteract.com> <37B99374.C566252C@serv.net> <37C005C6.270C4640@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > I'm going to make houppelandes of the sort that have one sleeve only > decorated with hanging bezants. I found a source for something that > looks fairly close to some of the items in the Museum of London books -- > they are non-coin danglies meant for belly dancing outfits. As far as several of us local zealots can tell, the danglies in the MOL aren't exactly bezants. The fact that they have two little holes (instead of one) is one problem. They don't dangle, too secure. However, little coin type thingines sound great and/or doable. Reasonable. > Most of the ones you can buy look like some kind of middle-eastern coin, > or have poky, jagged edges (on purpose.) These are different; just > under the size of an american quarter, and have a small wire ring > soldierd on; they come in brass or white metal, about $12/100 coins. I > got mine from The Pillaged Village. So, can you share the URL for the danglies. I have the Pillaged Village website but can't seem to find these little treasures you describe. Thanks, the other Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 13:14:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16127 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:14:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24596; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:27:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21344 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:26:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21336 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:26:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xohgoynt ([212.250.67.225]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990823182709.IBLO10277.mta1-svc@xohgoynt> for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:27:09 +0100 Message-ID: <000201beed93$d4bd3e20$e143fad4@xohgoynt> From: "emma smith" To: References: <199908221331.IAA08341@discordia.io.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Wench bosoms Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:43:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "emma smith" but 'kirtling up' your skirts (ie. tucking bits into belts etc) is totally authentic for Tudor / Elizabethan. It makes it much easier to do any real work, rather than just wandering about. I work with heavy horses on an LH site in England and couldn't do what I do if I had to worry about tripping over yards of linen! Same with hanging stuff off belts. Without pockets, where else do you put your stuff? I'm sure I'm preaching to the converted anyway... emma ----- Original Message ----- From: Amanda Reeves To: Sent: Sunday, August 22, 1999 2:34 PM Subject: H-COST: Wench bosoms > > -Poster: "Amanda Reeves" > > At a Ren Faire last year I saw a few large breasted women that chose to > wear their "wench" blouses in a way that was a little disturbing to me > (of-course, > it's just my opinion, but I still have the image in my head). The fabric > was a natural gauze and the "push up" was under the breasts, the breasts > hung over the push-up element of the costume (a laced up vest or bodice) > like empty, floppy water sacks, which was not appealing under the thin > gauze. Oh-yes, they didn't have anything on under the blouse so you could > see nipple. Not at all appealing and a little tacky, in my opinion. > > Another "look" I see a lot around here is the "wench" women tucking random > parts of their skirts and petticoats up in a belt and hanging lots of stuff > around their waist, hems, etc. It seems to borderline fantasy, but they > appear to be doing it for the Ren look. > > Then there was the lady in a BRIGHT red dress with black accents, i.e. > belt, stockings, ribbons..........seemed she should be in an early American > reenactment as a barroom gal. > > > > for some > > > reason, they think it's attractive and sexy. > > > > Or perhaps it's because it makes *them* feel attractive and sexy. > > That's probably very true and very important that they feel good about > themselves, but sometimes I wish women would look a little more closely in > the mirror before leaving the house. > > > > Around here (Ohio), a couple of years ago the fashion was to wear > > > these outfits with a FLOWER sticking out of your cleavage. Daring > > > someone to pick it, I suppose. At least that one isn't around anymore. > > I see that a lot around here, but now I'm beginning to see "henna tattoos" > on the top of the breast. I don't think they did that. > > > You might consider this also...when I was in school our skirts were not > > allowed to be above halfway down our thighs. I kept getting called to > > the office because my skirts were "too short".... > > Kat > > Oh, you're young!!! Our skirts had to be at the top of the knee! > > Amanda > Texas > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 13:15:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16131 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:15:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24722; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:28:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21638 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:27:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21621 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:27:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24972 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:26:30 -0400 Message-ID: <37C19260.4986F7A4@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:29:54 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: bezants? References: <199908140348.VAA15912@net.indra.com> <37B6FE86.7811@enteract.com> <37B99374.C566252C@serv.net> <37C005C6.270C4640@thibault.org> <37C182FA.ED7D7F71@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > As far as several of us local zealots can tell, the danglies in the MOL > aren't exactly bezants. The fact that they have two little holes (instead > of one) is one problem. Aha! I'd forgotten that. There are, though, the leaf-shaped things that have one hole but look like they were attached to a belt. Those would dangle. > So, can you share the URL for the danglies. I have the Pillaged Village > website but can't seem to find these little treasures you describe. Bought 'em at Pennsic. They are the same ones shown on "Belt, Afghan JP113/JW113" of the Jewelry-Middle Eastern at http://www.pillagedvillage.com It's not a great picture. The type of houp I'm going to make for my sweetie is from the Devonshire Hunting Tapestries; this is a drawing of a blue houp; the sleeve of which has a cloud at the shoulder and "raindrops" all over the sleeve. There are no women with metal danglies on sleeves in these tapestries, alas, but they do have 'em on stuffed roll hats. http://www.virtue.to/virtue/articles/images/1420_devonshire_grey.jpg -- "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown-up" --C.S. Lewis _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 13:23:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16142 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:23:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26527; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:36:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23495 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:36:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA23478 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:35:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:35:47 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000201beed93$d4bd3e20$e143fad4@xohgoynt> References: <199908221331.IAA08341@discordia.io.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:35:55 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Wench bosoms Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: "emma smith" > >but 'kirtling up' your skirts (ie. tucking bits into belts etc) is totally >authentic for Tudor / Elizabethan. It makes it much easier to do any real >work, rather than just wandering about. I work with heavy horses on an LH >site in England and couldn't do what I do if I had to worry about tripping >over yards of linen! >Same with hanging stuff off belts. Without pockets, where else do you put >your stuff? >I'm sure I'm preaching to the converted anyway... >emma Emma, You're right. However, many of them put their skirts up like belly dancers and then wear bells and rabbit's furs/tails, stuff that no person in their right mind would wear unless they were wearing costumes. Bells at the fairs started because the first fair started in the 60's and hippies wore bells. Costume directors banned them but people still wear them, sounding more like a bunch of sheep walking along the road than anything else. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 13:29:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16146 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:29:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27855; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:42:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24698 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:42:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24688 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA04292 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C19669.8FE8403C@serv.net> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:43:53 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: bezants? References: <199908140348.VAA15912@net.indra.com> <37B6FE86.7811@enteract.com> <37B99374.C566252C@serv.net> <37C005C6.270C4640@thibault.org> <37C182FA.ED7D7F71@serv.net> <37C19260.4986F7A4@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > Aha! I'd forgotten that. There are, though, the leaf-shaped things > that have one hole but look like they were attached to a belt. Those > would dangle. Yes, I remember these. Very cool. The only picture the MOL book could provide had those little numbers hanging off of armor. Too heavy for regular clothing. But I love the shape! > Bought 'em at Pennsic. They are the same ones shown on "Belt, Afghan > JP113/JW113" of the Jewelry-Middle Eastern at > http://www.pillagedvillage.com It's not a great picture. Fine, rub it in. Pennsic... > The type of houp I'm going to make for my sweetie is from the Devonshire > Hunting Tapestries; this is a drawing of a blue houp; the sleeve of > which has a cloud at the shoulder and "raindrops" all over the sleeve. > There are no women with metal danglies on sleeves in these tapestries, > alas, but they do have 'em on stuffed roll hats. Cool! Thanks. You make nice houppelands. :) Can't wear them myself, I melt. But I love seeing them done well. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 13:51:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16197 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:51:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01824; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:04:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA29454 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:04:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA29434 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:04:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990823190823.1047.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:08:23 PDT Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 12:08:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Wench bosoms To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney > costumes. Bells at the > fairs started because the first fair started in the > 60's and hippies wore > bells. Costume directors banned them but people > still wear them, sounding > more like a bunch of sheep walking along the road > than anything else. Something people have to remember, though, is this... a good portion of the people who go to ren faires are not reenactors but fantasy actors/roleplayers. These people are not so much interested in the historical accuracy as in having fun. The largest faire around here is King Richard's Faire on Cape Cod... most of the people I meet there are "fantasy" costumers, not "historical". Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 14:07:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16244 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:07:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04063; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:20:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03151 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:20:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03113 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:20:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FGX00CEVN1GE2@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:20:05 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:26:40 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoes? In-reply-to: <199908231827.MAA21417@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990823142640.007a1b40@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson From: Sarah Toney >I think this may have been addressed before but I >don't remember the answer... what would a woman >wearing Italian Renn wear on her feet? Certainly not >the "moccasin boots" that we see at all the faires >(this I know)... so, what should I look for? It's probably been addressed frequently :) It's a tough question since most of the paintings son't show the feet, and I haven't (yet) found any archaeological sites from Italy with shoes (although I'm sure there are some out there...). What she wears may depend on the answers to some questions, like what's her class, what years are you talking about, and what's her region in Italy. I mean "Italian Rennaisance" could be interpreted as covering anything from Plutarch in the 1200s to post-DaVinci in the 1500s. But ultimately, I'm not sure that anyone really knows. If anyone's found anything, they haven't told me. With regards to "chopines" (since those are going to be suggested) you might want to take a look at Bernhardt, Elizabeth Louis. _Venetian Chopines_ Http://www.chas.utoronto.edu.ca/~ebernhar At the very least, if you stick to *simple* shoe designs that resemble those worn by other Europeans of the same era, you will probably won't go wrong. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 15:07:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16301 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:07:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16216; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:20:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17034 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:19:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17015 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:19:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailgate2.apple.com ([17.129.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA50382 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:19:45 -0700 Received: from scv4.apple.com (scv4.apple.com) by mailgate2.apple.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:18:10 -0700 Received: from [17.202.21.54] (decaga.apple.com [17.202.21.54]) by scv4.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA50982 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:18:04 -0700 Message-Id: <199908232018.NAA50982@scv4.apple.com> Subject: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts Date: Mon, 23 Aug 99 13:23:18 -0700 x-sender: gdecamp@shell12.ba.best.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Gail DeCamp To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gail DeCamp Hi Emma, Check out Breughel's pictures of crowds of lower-income people-- the sort you would expect to be hanging things off their belts. If I recall correctly, you only occasionally see someone with an object hanging off his or her belt-- and usually it's a belt pouch, but not everybody pictured has a belt pouch. cheers, Gail DeCamp >but 'kirtling up' your skirts (ie. tucking bits into belts etc) is totally >authentic for Tudor / Elizabethan. It makes it much easier to do any real >work, rather than just wandering about. I work with heavy horses on an LH >site in England and couldn't do what I do if I had to worry about tripping >over yards of linen! >Same with hanging stuff off belts. Without pockets, where else do you put >your stuff? >I'm sure I'm preaching to the converted anyway... >emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 15:40:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16368 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:40:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21692; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:53:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25140 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:53:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25127 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:53:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.189] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11J15g-0003BK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:53:16 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 13:52:23 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts In-Reply-To: <199908232018.NAA50982@scv4.apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Whom amongst our friends may we current-day folk convince to play the role of the servant who would have carried Mesdames'/Monsieurs' belongings, so that the Ladies/Lords themselves would have their hands unoccupied and be free to do as they wished, unencumbered? :-) If you can successfully achieve that, you're a smoother talker than I, and mayhap ought be recommended to the Govt. for Exports' Management and Sales. :-) Carol / Gra/inne, with her sense of humor out of control _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 15:48:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16383 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:48:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22849; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:02:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA27125 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:02:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27101 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net (hearn.loew.washington.edu [128.95.202.218]) by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA07167 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:03:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C1B736.9F204369@serv.net> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:03:51 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > Whom amongst our friends may we current-day folk convince to > play the role of the servant who would have carried Mesdames'/Monsieurs' > belongings, so that the Ladies/Lords themselves would have their hands > unoccupied and be free to do as they wished, unencumbered? :-) Well not I for certain. Being a Lady in Waiting means that I am the one who carries things. *g* Not sure why a servant would carry the stuff that needed to be carried on my belt thought. I have a basket or two that works well. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 16:26:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16434 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:26:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28349; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:39:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05316 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:38:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05309 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 15:38:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clough (207-172-38-52.s52.tnt8.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.38.52]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA00217 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:40:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:40:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908232140.RAA00217@smtp2.erols.com> X-Sender: clough@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda and Larry Clough Subject: Re: H-COST: antarctica Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough At 08:17 AM 8/23/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Sarah Toney > >If anyone is looking for this stuff and knows which >issue or around which issue they are looking for, I >have just acquired all of the National Geographics >from about 1970 to the present. I would be more than >happy to look stuff up for people. -Excellent- idea, guys! And I live in the Washington DC area, near the Nat'l Geographic hq, so I can go down and badger them if necessary. Must wait until the kid are safely trapped in school... Brenda Brenda W. Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD from Tor Books. http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 18:17:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16610 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:16:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13755; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:30:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29147 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:29:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29124; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:29:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA13027; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:59:32 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA02425; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:07:37 +0930 Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:07:30 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts In-Reply-To: <199908232018.NAA50982@scv4.apple.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Mon, 23 Aug 1999, Gail DeCamp wrote: > > -Poster: Gail DeCamp > > > Hi Emma, > > Check out Breughel's pictures of crowds of lower-income people-- > the sort you would expect to be hanging things off their belts. If > I recall correctly, you only occasionally see someone with an object > hanging off his or her belt-- and usually it's a belt pouch, but not > everybody pictured has a belt pouch. > Agreed. In other pictures of the 16th century lower class it's rare to see women even wearing a belt. Mostly they wear aprons. I guess if you had enough stuff that you really had to carry around you used your apron or a basket. After all, unless you were heading to market (and therefore carrying a basket) you probably didn't venture very far from your house. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 18:29:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16620 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:28:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15041; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:42:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02084 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:42:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02076 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:42:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990823234203.BWYH1639.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 16:42:03 -0700 Message-ID: <37C1DC52.9F108140@home.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:42:10 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent The Purple Elephant wrote: > > Agreed. In other pictures of the 16th century lower class it's rare to > see women even wearing a belt. Mostly they wear aprons. I guess if you > had enough stuff that you really had to carry around you used your > apron or a basket. After all, unless you were heading to market (and > therefore carrying a basket) you probably didn't venture very far from > your house. I know that I've seen pics of women with things depending from their belts in my dad's history books. As for aprons...when I wear an apron in garb it's *over* my belt so you might not necessarily see that I even have one on...much less if anything is hanging on it. Which brings up another point...eyewitness accounts from the periods are often better, IMO, than pictures for providing information. Artists don't necessarily put in every detail of the world around them, particularly if they are in a rush to finish a commission or just don't want to waste the paint. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 18:40:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16628 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:40:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16109; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:54:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03829 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:54:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03822 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:54:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.161.142]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA18984 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:54:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37C1DF9F.40F9B67B@mediaone.net> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:56:15 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoes? References: <3.0.6.32.19990823142640.007a1b40@pop.utulsa.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas Sarah, I remember one CostumeCon Historical winner (Toronto, I think) who wore Italian Renn and even made her own shoes. As I recall, she used the pattern from Queta's Closet (Alteryears) Medieval Shoes for Lords and Ladies ca 1100-1480. It's a one strap shoe with a pointed toe. It costs $8.50. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 19:54:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16778 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:54:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24324; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:08:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA15298 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:07:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1old.radix.net [209.48.224.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15291 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:07:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (p26.a3.du.radix.net [207.192.130.26]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA00653 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:07:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.0.1.19990823204700.011515e0@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:07:20 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: McClintock Reprint (was Re: H-COST: Kilt info sources) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin + Mara Riley At 02:10 PM 08/07/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com > >Ok, as for the kilt. Now you should be aware that most feel that the kilt >was not worn by the Scots until AFTER 1600 or so. Earlier than that, the >Celtic peoples (Irish, Scots, etc) dressed fairly alike. Keep that in mind. >A good (and one of the only) reference books you'll find to that end is "Old >Irish and Highland Dress, and that of the Isle of Mann" by H.F. McClintock. >It is out of print and very very hard to find though. (snip) I went by the Unicorn Books tent at the Alexandria, VA highland games this July, and they said they're planning on doing a reprint of the McClintock book soon, with color plates. I checked their web site a week or so ago, and they didn't have it up yet. They're at: http://www.scotpress.com Cheers, Mara Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 20:14:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16803 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:14:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27253; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:27:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17609 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:24:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17590 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA13811 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:24:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-23.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.23]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA11064 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:24:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002901beedd0$08cd3800$b432fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Nursing mothers in period art Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 18:28:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Hope, I couldn't get these either. Michelle >BTW, your URLs nos. 1, 3, 4 & 5 didn't work for me. > > > >Kate Bunting >Library, University of Derby > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 20:48:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16826 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:48:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01353; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:02:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA22995 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:02:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22987 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:02:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.141 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:01:34 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: antarctica Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:35:44 -0400 Message-ID: <000201beedd5$dba9ae20$8d0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The responses have covered at least three entirely separate expeditions. Amundson, Scott, and Schackleton. Very different time frames, groups, and internal politics. Can't generalize from one to the other. I think, but am not sure, that is was the Scott expediton that involved the nordic skis and dog sleds. Those who raced to the pole all died. I thought it was a mixed nationality group. In any event, most of my info on it came from a very detailed Public Television show a few years ago. Whether to travel heavy or light was a matter of constant debate. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Deborah Pulliam > Sent: Monday, August 23, 1999 10:46 AM > To: h-costume-digest@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: antarctica > > > > -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) > > < that the first > explorers of Antarctica wore. >> > > This depends entirely on what nationality you're dealing > with. The Brits > firmly refused to do anything the way the Scandinavians did, out of > national pride and perversity. In consequence, they did > bizarre things like > insisting on taking gas-powered cars and trucks that, of > course, refused to > work in subzero temperatures. They insisted the cars would be > superior to > dogs and sleds. Several of the exploreres also refused to > take along skiis. > > Frank Hurley's outstanding photographs of Shackleton's > Endurance voyage > (1914 - 17) have recently been reprinted. Because they're made from > original glass plate negatives for the most part, the visible > detail is > staggering -- lots of guernsey sweaters and skin coats, > knitted caps and > fur ear-flap hats. There are plenty of books out on this expedition, > including a couple of books called Endurance, as well as South > (Shackleton's own account) and a major biography of > Shackleton. Shackleton > also insisted that all of his officers keep journals, and they do talk > about clothing and provisioning. > > > Deborah > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 20:49:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16830 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:49:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01453; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:03:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23100 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:02:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23091 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:02:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.141 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:01:44 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: , Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: Nursing mothers in period art Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:18:44 -0400 Message-ID: <000401beedd5$e0791080$8d0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Shouldn't have been a problem with the URL's as they were swiped and copied to my post and working when I sent it. Sometimes very long URL's split in half during transmission and the end which goes to the next line loses its active quality. If you have any loose garbage at the end of the URL, then manually move it in---sometimes the opposite, something gets compressed into the URL from the text which has to be manually split out. The end of those URL's was frequently .jpg if that helps, and for the super long ones, they resulted from searches--include all of the garbage until you get to some text that looks like real English. It may not work quite like this in programs other than Microsoft Explorer, in which case, you may have to swipe and copy all of the URL to the subject line on your browser and hit enter to get results. Good luck. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of KATE M BUNTING > Sent: Monday, August 23, 1999 9:31 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Re: Nursing mothers in period art > > > > -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" > > Hope - I don't think your Rubens lady is a nursing mother at > all. The projection which might be seen as a baby's chin is > the upper part of her puffed sleeve. It was a common fashion > in the early 17th century to gather voluminous sleeves > halfway down. Though she does seem to have a curious > horizontal line below the top of her bodice on one side. > BTW, your URLs nos. 1, 3, 4 & 5 didn't work for me. > > > > Kate Bunting > Library, University of Derby > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 21:09:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16850 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:09:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03426; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:23:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26135 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:22:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26121 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:22:43 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EJRLHTTW; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:22:17 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:16:13 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Winter and Savoy Message-ID: <19990823.211624.-682371.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-9,12-13 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com I would agree with everything Margo has said and add a few items more. They recommend several sleeve styles that just aren't correct. The multi-pieced "Italian" sleeve is wrong, and the one they call a "Queen's" sleeve is also wrong. I think that it is a blending of a mahoitered sleeve with a mid-reign mondo shoulder roll, but the version they give in the book never really existed. They also imply that the only form of surcoat was the A-line shoulder pleated variety, when a more common style was quite fitted and may have even been of a more "princess-line' construction. I also agree with Margo in that the book is a good place to send beginners, but with some warnings about the obvious points that can be improved on. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 21:23:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16864 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:23:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04600; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:37:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28320 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:37:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chupacabras.flash.net (chupacabras.flash.net [209.30.6.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28306 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:37:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p43.amax21.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.69.43]) by chupacabras.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26379 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:37:03 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37C1C55E.C8EB3B75@flash.net> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 17:04:14 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: those patterns again... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette ches@io.com wrote: > Has anyone found the Elizabethan one in any store other than > Hancock's? I saw it at Hobby Lobby and a friend saw it at Joanns. --Charlene -- The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 21:29:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16871 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:29:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05554; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:43:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA29337 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:42:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29328 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:42:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.96.178.66] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11J6Xm-0005Ou-00; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:42:38 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990824023931.00715fa4@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:39:31 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 06:42 PM 8/23/99 -0500, you wrote: > >I know that I've seen pics of women with things depending from their >belts in my dad's history books. As for aprons...when I wear an apron >in garb it's *over* my belt so you might not necessarily see that I even >have one on...much less if anything is hanging on it. Which brings up >another point...eyewitness accounts from the periods are often better, >IMO, than pictures for providing information. Artists don't necessarily >put in every detail of the world around them, particularly if they are >in a rush to finish a commission or just don't want to waste the paint. > >Kat > _________________________________________________________________ While this is true, Breughal was very accurate. His painting "Blind leading the Blind" is so accurate that modern physicians can tell what ailment has caused each man's blindness. No one source is ever 100 percant accurate. Research must use as many different sources as possible to determine what was typically done. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 21:46:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16888 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:46:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08616; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:00:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA02856 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:59:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02849 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:59:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990824025936.EMFZ1639.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:59:36 -0700 Message-ID: <37C20A9D.D98E4E48@home.com> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:59:41 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts References: <2.2.32.19990824023931.00715fa4@widomaker.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Ron Carnegie wrote: > > No one source is ever 100 percant accurate. Research must use > as many different sources as possible to determine what was typically > done. This is the point I've been trying to make. But we should also remember that even when we are working from source materials that they may not provide a *complete* and accurate portrayal of the period. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 22:05:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16909 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:05:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11394; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:19:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA06151 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:18:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06143 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:18:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.150] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11J76S-00043d-00; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:18:28 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 20:17:31 -0700 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: Simplicity Pattern #0663 from the Celtic Costume Collection. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id VAA06144 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" This one inc. hat, shawl, vest, blouse and skirt, and is one of Andrea Schewe's, according to a small box on the bottom left of the pattern envelope. If this has already been addressed, I beg everyone's pardon. In Simplicity #0663, Celtic Costume Collection, how inaccurate/accurate is the shape of the sleeve pattern? I can see some of the other flaws. Also, I note the vest is not boned. Ought it to have been? Thank you very much. Carol, aka: Gráinne ingen Domnaill Ildánaig, in the SCA, Inc. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 23 23:13:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17027 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 23:13:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19681; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:26:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA16009 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:26:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16000 for ; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:26:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.151] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11J89t-0001dS-00; Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:26:06 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 21:25:07 -0700 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: Re: Simplicity Pattern #0663 from the Celtic Costume Collection. In-Reply-To: <37C21099.43BEC57D@worldnetla.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 10:25 PM 8/23/99 -0500, you wrote: >No, the vest is boned. The boning goes between the lining and the >muslin to hide it from the outer view... >That's all I can offer on this one. > >Sarah My apologies. I had looked for the boning in the notions, where it is listed below/with all the other yardage. I still would like opinions on the cut of the sleeves of the blouse, if you would kindly share your thoughts/expertise. Thank you again. Gra/inne / Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 08:08:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13866 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:08:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23385; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 07:20:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA23418 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 07:19:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wcuvax1.wcu.edu (wcuvax1.wcu.edu [152.30.1.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23409 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 07:19:38 -0600 (MDT) From: STRAUSS@WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU Received: from WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU by WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU (PMDF V5.1-9 #24282) id <01JF52ILVULS9AMY53@WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:19:32 EST Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:19:32 -0500 (EST) Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #505 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <01JF52ILWX6Q9AMY53@WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU> X-VMS-To: IN%"h-costume-digest@indra.com" X-VMS-Cc: STRAUSS MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: STRAUSS@WCUVAX1.WCU.EDU Sorry for the subject line. National Geographic used to cover those old expeditions, since they often funded them. Check their index volumes for the issues. You might find photos that way (Scott, Antarctica). Bob ==================================================================== Bob Strauss Cataloger Hunter Library Western Carolina U. strauss@wcu.edu Class home page: http://www3.wcu.edu/~strauss Personal home page: http://www3.wcu.edu/~strauss/personal ==================================================================== _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 08:55:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13925 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:55:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28060; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:08:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00470 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:07:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA00448 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:07:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990824141143.14700.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 07:11:43 PDT Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 07:11:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: H-COST: The Scott Expedition To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney The August 1956 issue of National Geographic has a section on the Scott Expedition... I will see if I can find it on lunch (The magazines are still in the trunk of my car since my bookshelves aren't ready yet *g*) Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 09:03:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13936 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:03:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29053; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:15:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02073 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:15:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02064 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:15:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 132.198.103.243 (132.198.103.243) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.30C341B0@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 9:15:21 -0500 Message-ID: <37C2B8AF.5E33@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:22:31 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Nursing mothers in period art References: <000401beedd5$e0791080$8d0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Hope Greenberg A friend of mine just returned from Italy and brought me a book of the paintings and frescos of Domenic Ghirlandaio (1449-1494) (drool, drool!). I'll try to get some of the images up, but meanwhile I've scanned the detail of the nursing mother from the "Birth of John the Baptist" and popped it into a file at: http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/italian/ghirlandaio.html The image itself is large (a 194K jpeg) It shows a chemise with a slit that extends almost to the neckline, a blue underdress that fastens in the front, covered by a green overdress with a loose blouson top that can be pulled out of the way. This bodice is similar to many others depicted by Ghirlandaio and others of the period, particularly on the Madonna or other mother figures. I would recommend images depicting the "Slaughter of the Innocents" but these can be quite disturbing. For more paintings by Ghirlandaio, see Carol Gersten's art sites. I believe the URLs have already been posted but redundancy never hurts: http://sunsite.auc.dk/cgfa/ghirlandaio/index.html - Hope ------------- hope.greenberg@uvm.edu, U of Vemront, http://www.uvm.edu/~hag _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 09:22:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13951 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:22:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01657; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:34:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA05894 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:33:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA05888; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:33:35 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:33:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908241433.IAA05888@net.indra.com> From: Mary Denise Smith To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Announcing Jean Hunnisett US Tour! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Mary Denise Smith Greetings List: Reknowned costumer for stage, film and TV and author of books on period costuming, JEAN HUNNISETT, will tour the United States in June, 2000 Miss Hunnisett will begin her tour in Williamsburg VA at the annual meeting of the Costume Society of America, May 31 - June 3, 2000. Her first lecture and workshop will be at the Daughters of the American Revolution Museum in Washington DC, June 9 and 11. The workshop will be on draping Regency era dresses. The next stop will be in New York City the second week of June. The exact dates, venue and topics will be announced soon. Stops in the Midwest have yet to be confirmed. Miss Hunnisett will lecture and lead a workshop in Denver June 24 and 25. The workshop topic will be taken from her book "Period Costume for Stage and Screen Medieval to 1500" There will be a lecture and workshop in Portland Oregon June 19 and 20, venue and topic to be announced. A lecture and workshop is scheduled in San Francisco, California for June 23 and 24, venue and topic to be announced. The final stop on Miss Hunnisett’s tour of the United States will be in Los Angeles for the annual Costume College, sponsored by the Costumers Guild West, June 30 - July 4. Miss Hunnisett is the author of four books that are standards in costume shops and sewing rooms the world over: Period Costume for Stage and Screen 1500 - 1800 Vol I, Vol II 1800 - 1909 and Vol III Medieval to 1500 published by Players Press. Still to be published is a two part work: Cloaks and Coats Vol I Cloaks, Mantles, Wraps and Stoles and Vol II Dominos Dolmans and Coats. Her books will be available by advance order and at the lectures and workshops. Miss Hunnisett will be available to autograph her books. For further information, to purchase tickets, order books or to arrange a lecture and workshop, please go to our web site: http://www.costumemag.com or contact: Mary Denise Smith Costume & Dressmaker Press Publications for Serious Costumers 601 East Main Street #5C Trinidad CO 81082 719-845-1905 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 11:19:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14075 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:19:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20087; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:31:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02732 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:30:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02720 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 10:30:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lips.excite.com ([199.172.152.142]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990824163005.GFXQ300.ewey@lips.excite.com> for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:30:05 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: National Geographic Message-Id: <935512204.4212.109@excite.com> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 09:30:04 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" > National Geographic used to cover those > old expeditions, since they often funded them. Check their index volumes > for the issues. You might find photos that way (Scott, Antarctica). I have the CD set of NG going back to day one. If I have time this weekend, I'll be happy to check it out and see if there is any useful info on the subject. Actually, I wouldn't mind doing a search for anyone (well, within reason) with this nifty tool, just let me know what you want looked up. Kate ---- StitchWitch Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim. - Santayana, Life of Reason, 1905 ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 12:44:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14234 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:44:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04629; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:56:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23352 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:54:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23338 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:54:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA08026 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:54:21 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp189-176.worldonline.nl [195.241.189.176]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA27746 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:54:18 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199908241754.TAA27746@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Kirby Hall Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:37:43 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Dave wrote: > So how did those that attended get on; > Wether as participants or as public ? > I never managed to get there; so would like to know. It was wonderful. We were on top of the hill in the 12-14c camp and had the best view. The weather held, except for a hurrycane size gust of wind which toppled our cooking tent, but we were all in it and could keep it down and place the windscreen differently against the next one, which never came. We had a double rainbow after that. There were even more re-enactors than last year (about 2500), more vistors too (20000?) and the market was bigger too. We bought a lot; purse, drum, sticks, books (lots!), little knickknacks, etc. Everybody was super friendly (all equally mad!!!), visitors were polite and not pushy. Pike practice went wonderful (we are a rabble being knocked into shape by a city captain (Flemish 1300)) and everybody enjoyed our music and singing. The parade was magnificent, especially the one on sunday, as was the free fight (but I didn't see that). The atmosphere in the beer tent was relaxed but crowded. Sunday evening was best there, lots' of people had left and we could move around then. We made a lot of friends. In short: a great time was had by all... Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 12:47:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14238 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:47:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05327; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:00:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24616 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:59:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24600 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:59:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Finafyr@aol.com Received: from Finafyr@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6HTUa13735 (3928) for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:59:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <84c6a401.24f43765@aol.com> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:59:01 EDT Subject: H-COST: Quest about how much to charge for costuming To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 29 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Finafyr@aol.com I have been asked by alot of people to make costumes for them...but so far I have not been abole to figure out how much to charge.....can anyone help me figure out how much to charge????? Renee _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 13:04:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14254 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:04:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07914; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27978 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:15:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27956 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11JL5q-000GHP-0K for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:14:47 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:13:18 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Request for What to Tell Newcomers about How to Dress and Act in the Medieval Period (ca. 500-1550) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie To choose what to wear you really need to have some idea of a persona - where and when does he want to be from? How did he get interested in the SCA? Is there a particular period of music he likes to perform, or does he do Icelandic sagas? Is he interested in the history of the Crusades, or the Hundred Years War, or in Rene of Anjou's style of tournaments? Is he interested in heraldry- if so, choose a time when it was important. These sorts of things will help him find his niche. But if he still doesn't have a clue, I would recommend a simple tunic and trousers, but it doesn't have to be quick and nasty. Go for a definite Saxon or Viking look, or even Norman (boo, hiss :-)) He can look good without too much sewing skill and in simple fabrics, and also with simple and cheap tablewear and other gear. And, if he later decides he wants to wear very tight hose and very short doublets, or a peascod belly and trunk hose, he still has something easy to wear and easy to care for, for staggering to the shower block first thing in the morning, or helping take down the marquee, or whatever. Jean In message , "Carol J. Bell Cannon" writes > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > I know the conventional wisdom seems to be : T-tunic and trews or some >variety. I've already got a long list of my own, but I'd like to solicit >your thoughts. This man doesn't have a clue who/when he wants to be, how >to go about choosing a persona, how to attire/equip himself, nor about >manners/customs in the SCA, BUT he's intelligent. He's asking beforehand. >He & I will appreciate it if you would lend your advice and expertise. >Many, many thanks in advance. Carol / Gra/inne, in the SCA PS If anyone >has the contact info. for the appropriate Seneschal/Chatelaine for the >group local to Taunton, NJ, please send that to me PRIVATELY, NOT to the list. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 13:06:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14258 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:06:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08276; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:17:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28323 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:16:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28314 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:16:58 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6WHFa05159 (3865) for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:16:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:16:18 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: National Geographic To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 8/24/1999 9:31:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, stitchwitch@excite.com writes: << I have the CD set of NG going back to day one. If I have time this weekend, I'll be happy to check it out and see if there is any useful info on the subject. Actually, I wouldn't mind doing a search for anyone (well, within reason) with this nifty tool, just let me know what you want looked up. Kate ---- StitchWitch >> How does one acquire the CD set of NG for the past? That sounds like a neat tool. Is it readily available to the consumer?? angela _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 13:08:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14265 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:08:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08859; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29086 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:20:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29079 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:20:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-246-162.s543.tnt2.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.246.162]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA21615 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:20:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006201beee5e$96d48840$a2f67ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <84c6a401.24f43765@aol.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Quest about how much to charge for costuming Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:29:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > -Poster: Finafyr@aol.com > > I have been asked by alot of people to make costumes for them...but so far I > have not been abole to figure out how much to charge.....can anyone help me > figure out how much to charge????? > Renee > I charge a decent wage plus materials. I consider a decent wage as $5 an hour, because I don't declare my costume income on my taxes, so it works out to a higher regular wage. If you bring in enough income to declare it I would charge more. It also depends on what you're doing. My hourly rate goes up if I have to shop for the customer or doing hand-finishing or embroidery, simply to discourage it. I will also give a discount if the costumer has his own materials already. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 13:13:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14271 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:13:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09140; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:22:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29524 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:22:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ewey.excite.com (ewey-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.191]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29517 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:22:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from claude.excite.com ([199.172.152.181]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990824182149.GVWK300.ewey@claude.excite.com> for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:21:49 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: National Geographic Message-Id: <935518909.20915.233@excite.com> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:21:49 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" > How does one acquire the CD set of NG for the past? That sounds like a neat > tool. Is it readily available to the consumer?? > > angela One goes to Costco™, plunks down one's money, and viola! I was just there last week, and they still have several sets available. They come in a nice wooden chest, with the NG logo in metal on the front. Very classy! For those who are not near a Costco, check your local bookstore. If they don't have it, they can prob'ly order it. Or contact NG, I'm sure they'd be happy to sell you a set! Kate ---- StitchWitch Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim. - Santayana, Life of Reason, 1905 ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 13:13:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14275 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:13:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09459; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:25:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00193 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:25:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA00182 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:25:14 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990824182821.26868.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:28:21 PDT Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:28:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Quest about how much to charge for costuming To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I tend to go to the local costume shop, figure out how much they are charging and "add a bit" because what I make is better quality... ;-) Sarah --- Finafyr@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: Finafyr@aol.com > > I have been asked by alot of people to make costumes > for them...but so far I > have not been abole to figure out how much to > charge.....can anyone help me > figure out how much to charge????? > Renee > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 13:14:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14279 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:14:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09584; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:26:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00319 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:25:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00304 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:25:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xohgoynt ([212.250.67.199]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990824182624.GCQ12530.mta1-svc@xohgoynt> for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:26:24 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01beee5c$e45796e0$c743fad4@xohgoynt> From: "emma smith" To: References: <19990823190823.1047.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Wench bosoms Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:54:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "emma smith" bells on kids are good though - let's you know where the little darlings are they can't move without jangling so they can't hide! ----- Original Message ----- From: Sarah Toney To: Sent: Monday, August 23, 1999 8:08 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Wench bosoms > > -Poster: Sarah Toney > > > costumes. Bells at the > > fairs started because the first fair started in the > > 60's and hippies wore > > bells. Costume directors banned them but people > > still wear them, sounding > > more like a bunch of sheep walking along the road > > than anything else. > > > Something people have to remember, though, is this... > a good portion of the people who go to ren faires are > not reenactors but fantasy actors/roleplayers. These > people are not so much interested in the historical > accuracy as in having fun. > > The largest faire around here is King Richard's Faire > on Cape Cod... most of the people I meet there are > "fantasy" costumers, not "historical". > > Sarah > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 13:14:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14283 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:14:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09629; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:26:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00369 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:26:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00353 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:26:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xohgoynt ([212.250.67.199]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990824182635.GDB12530.mta1-svc@xohgoynt> for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:26:35 +0100 Message-ID: <000f01beee5c$eab0a680$c743fad4@xohgoynt> From: "emma smith" To: References: <37C1DC52.9F108140@home.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:59:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "emma smith" kat yes agree totally bella ----- Original Message ----- From: Kat & Kent To: Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 12:42 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts > > -Poster: Kat & Kent > > The Purple Elephant wrote: > > > > Agreed. In other pictures of the 16th century lower class it's rare to > > see women even wearing a belt. Mostly they wear aprons. I guess if you > > had enough stuff that you really had to carry around you used your > > apron or a basket. After all, unless you were heading to market (and > > therefore carrying a basket) you probably didn't venture very far from > > your house. > > I know that I've seen pics of women with things depending from their > belts in my dad's history books. As for aprons...when I wear an apron > in garb it's *over* my belt so you might not necessarily see that I even > have one on...much less if anything is hanging on it. Which brings up > another point...eyewitness accounts from the periods are often better, > IMO, than pictures for providing information. Artists don't necessarily > put in every detail of the world around them, particularly if they are > in a rush to finish a commission or just don't want to waste the paint. > > Kat > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 13:18:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14287 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:18:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09632; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:26:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00360 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:26:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00347 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:26:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xohgoynt ([212.250.67.199]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990824182628.GCU12530.mta1-svc@xohgoynt> for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:26:28 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01beee5c$e6cc4060$c743fad4@xohgoynt> From: "emma smith" To: References: <199908232018.NAA50982@scv4.apple.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:57:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "emma smith" well, you can't always *see* the pouch anyway I agree as to all kinds of tat hanging off - ie. bells, feathers, dried frogs, hagstones etc - I suppose it's up to the individual re-enactor, but too many is a bit what we call 'wincey' wince denotes someone who spends too much time with shift hanging off shoulders, going barefoot & gazing at the trees / stars ho hum bella ----- Original Message ----- From: Gail DeCamp To: Sent: Monday, August 23, 1999 9:23 PM Subject: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts > > -Poster: Gail DeCamp > > > Hi Emma, > > Check out Breughel's pictures of crowds of lower-income people-- > the sort you would expect to be hanging things off their belts. If > I recall correctly, you only occasionally see someone with an object > hanging off his or her belt-- and usually it's a belt pouch, but not > everybody pictured has a belt pouch. > > cheers, > > Gail DeCamp > > >but 'kirtling up' your skirts (ie. tucking bits into belts etc) is totally > >authentic for Tudor / Elizabethan. It makes it much easier to do any real > >work, rather than just wandering about. I work with heavy horses on an LH > >site in England and couldn't do what I do if I had to worry about tripping > >over yards of linen! > >Same with hanging stuff off belts. Without pockets, where else do you put > >your stuff? > >I'm sure I'm preaching to the converted anyway... > >emma > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 13:25:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14301 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:25:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11479; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:37:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02694 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:36:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02681 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:36:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xohgoynt ([212.250.68.34]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990824183531.GHTI28538.mta2-svc@xohgoynt> for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:35:31 +0100 Message-ID: <003b01beee5e$5e131d00$2244fad4@xohgoynt> From: "emma smith" To: References: <84c6a401.24f43765@aol.com> <006201beee5e$96d48840$a2f67ad1@pavilion> Subject: Re: H-COST: Quest about how much to charge for costuming Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:27:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "emma smith" Hi I make re-enactment stuff in England. Here are approximate charges (in £ I'm afraid): Doublet / cotehardie £45 Hose / breeches £30 Bodice £40 Skirt £25 - depends on amount of material Livery coat / casaque £60 This is all for basic working class / middle class kit: no braids, decorations etc Discounts (10%) if people provide own materials I was in a similar situation to you last year & still am not sure I'm charging the right amounts!! Hope it's helpful Bella ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrea Gideon To: Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 7:29 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Quest about how much to charge for costuming > > -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > > > -Poster: Finafyr@aol.com > > > > I have been asked by alot of people to make costumes for them...but so far > I > > have not been abole to figure out how much to charge.....can anyone help > me > > figure out how much to charge????? > > Renee > > > I charge a decent wage plus materials. I consider a decent wage as $5 an > hour, because I don't declare my costume income on my taxes, so it works out > to a higher regular wage. If you bring in enough income to declare it I > would charge more. It also depends on what you're doing. My hourly rate > goes up if I have to shop for the customer or doing hand-finishing or > embroidery, simply to discourage it. I will also give a discount if the > costumer has his own materials already. > Andrea > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 13:27:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14305 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:27:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11737; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:38:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03026 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:37:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA03018 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:37:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990824184204.15033.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:42:04 PDT Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:42:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I just thought of something... there have always been "gypsies" who traveled here there and everywhere... If my memory serves me right, they WERE in the habit of hanging things from their belt so that they didn't get lost as they traveled... I know this isn't what we were looking at, but it's something... Sarah >well, you can't always *see* the pouch anyway I > agree > as to all kinds of tat hanging off - ie. bells, > feathers, dried frogs, > hagstones etc - I suppose it's up to the individual > re-enactor, but too many > is a bit what we call 'wincey' > wince denotes someone who spends too much time with > shift hanging off > shoulders, going barefoot & gazing at the trees / > stars > ho hum > bella > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gail DeCamp > To: > Sent: Monday, August 23, 1999 9:23 PM > Subject: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from > their belts > > > > > > -Poster: Gail DeCamp > > > > > > Hi Emma, > > > > Check out Breughel's pictures of crowds of > lower-income people-- > > the sort you would expect to be hanging things off > their belts. If > > I recall correctly, you only occasionally see > someone with an object > > hanging off his or her belt-- and usually it's a > belt pouch, but not > > everybody pictured has a belt pouch. > > > > cheers, > > > > Gail DeCamp > > > > >but 'kirtling up' your skirts (ie. tucking bits > into belts etc) is > totally > > >authentic for Tudor / Elizabethan. It makes it > much easier to do any > real > > >work, rather than just wandering about. I work > with heavy horses on an > LH > > >site in England and couldn't do what I do if I > had to worry about > tripping > > >over yards of linen! > > >Same with hanging stuff off belts. Without > pockets, where else do you > put > > >your stuff? > > >I'm sure I'm preaching to the converted anyway... > > >emma > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 13:37:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14325 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:36:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13443; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:48:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05202 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:47:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05186 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:47:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.236] (ell188.acadia.net [205.217.210.30]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA25049 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:47:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:48:48 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: antarctica Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Well, if there's no information available on the Scott expedition, I'd say it would be better to generalize from other expeditions in the same time period than to make things up. In addition, the original question asked about clothing terminology and vocabulary, which certainly can be generalized from one English expedition to another at the very least. In many cases, the expeditions used the same suppliers. << I think, but am not sure, that is was the Scott expediton that involved the nordic skis and dog sleds. >> Actually, it was Amundsen, not surprisingly, who pioneered the use of both dogs and skis. This is way off topic; if anyone wants further information, contact me privately. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 13:38:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14339 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:38:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13636; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:49:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05450 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:49:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from kuku.excite.com (kuku-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05442 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from digger.excite.com ([199.172.152.82]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990824184831.GYMO296.kuku@digger.excite.com> for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:48:31 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts Message-Id: <935520511.11954.58@excite.com> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 11:48:31 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" > I just thought of something... there have always been > "gypsies" who traveled here there and everywhere... If > my memory serves me right, they WERE in the habit of > hanging things from their belt so that they didn't get > lost as they traveled... I know this isn't what we > were looking at, but it's something... > > Sarah Y'know, I've never played with the SCA or anything, but that sounds like the kind of persona that I could work with. Where might I search to find out more information about this type of person in that age? (Oh, dear, another project!) Kate ---- StitchWitch Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim. - Santayana, Life of Reason, 1905 ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 13:52:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14355 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:52:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16287; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:03:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08507 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:02:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08497 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:02:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-79-2.s2.tnt5.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.79.2]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA06295 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:02:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00e701beee62$fb5af340$834faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: National Geographic Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:00:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" The NG at COSTCO is about $129. If I remember the reviews correctly, the CD is not indexed well and that you have to print out a whole page. You can't just cut out the image if you need to like having the magazine in hand. The program will not allow you to cut and paste anything into your software programs. This is for copyright protection. It is very similar to looking at a website on Aricobat Reader (sp). I was really excited about the CD when it came out. Then it was priced $199. I listened to the reviews. I am glad I sat on my hands. But listening to the reviews helped me decide how to layout my Vintage Publications. I wanted the public to be able to use in a friendly manner the images and text. On the other hand, if you want to collect NG, I can tell you a cheap way to do it. Call your public library and ask them to sell you donated issues. My son collects them for inspiration for his artwork. Our libraries save the NG donations and sells them to me for 10 cents an issue. I buy them in box fulls. If my son has repeat issues, he cuts them up for artwork or trades them with other collectors for issues that he doesn't have. Goodwill stores also sell NG for about a quarter per issue. Rare issues or complete years can be purchased on Ebay auctions. Last Christmas, I gave my son 12 boxes of NG. I also buy past issues Smithsonian magazine from the library. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 13:59:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14361 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:59:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17447; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:09:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09917 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:09:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA09902 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:09:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990824191223.5850.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:12:23 PDT Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:12:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney > Y'know, I've never played with the SCA or anything, > but that sounds like the > kind of persona that I could work with. Where might > I search to find out > more information about this type of person in that > age? (Oh, dear, another > project!) Well, I play a gypsy in NERO (like SCA but more fantasy) and I have found that the books I find the most useful are the gypsy mythology and superstition books... they give lots of reasons for why the do certain things and wear certain things... I'm not sure the names of the books I have... I will look when I get home... Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 14:02:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14374 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:02:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17725; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:12:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10412 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:11:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f264.hotmail.com [207.82.251.155]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA10406 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 13:11:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 79535 invoked by uid 0); 24 Aug 1999 19:04:14 -0000 Message-ID: <19990824190414.79534.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 12.21.110.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:04:12 PDT X-Originating-IP: [12.21.110.240] From: "Karie Mitchell" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:04:12 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" >-Poster: Sarah Toney > >I just thought of something... there have always been >"gypsies" who traveled here there and everywhere... If >my memory serves me right, they WERE in the habit of >hanging things from their belt so that they didn't get >lost as they traveled... I know this isn't what we >were looking at, but it's something... > >Sarah Don't forget pockets! They're period! Karie/Allessandre _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 14:52:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14459 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:52:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25289; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:04:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21904 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:03:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21890 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:03:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clough (207-172-111-111.s111.tnt1.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.111.111]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA27697 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:03:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:03:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908242003.QAA27697@smtp3.erols.com> X-Sender: clough@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda and Larry Clough Subject: Re: H-COST: antarctica Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough At 02:48 PM 8/24/99 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) > ><Amundson, Scott, and Schackleton. Very different time frames, groups, and >internal politics. Can't generalize from one to the other. >> > >Well, if there's no information available on the Scott expedition, I'd say >it would be better to generalize from other expeditions in the same time >period than to make things up. In addition, the original question asked >about clothing terminology and vocabulary, which certainly can be >generalized from one English expedition to another at the very least. In >many cases, the expeditions used the same suppliers. > In fact I went to the library this morning, and got out a shallow but fascinating book, ANTARCTICA: Great Stories from the Frozen Continent, published by Readers' Digest. Among many other things, it has a discussion of sledging, what the old explorers used to eat, and yes! a sidebar titled, "A Well-Dressed Explorer From the Heroic Age." From this I quote, with my own comments in brackets: "Furs were only worn on hands and feet. Scott disapproved of them for other garments... [the dickweed! sorry.] The outer windproof suit was made from thin, waterproofed gaberdine and consisted of a top, trousers and leggings. The suit had to be easy to put on and to take off, and at the same time completely impervious to blown snow... Hands were protected by woollen halfmitts which extended from the knuckles almost to the elbows. Over these were worn lined fur mitts. In addition for outer work, there were felt and woolen mitts. These could be windproofed by simply wetting them so taht they froze -- the ice formed an impenetrable covering. "A fleecy helmet [balaclava?] woven from camel hair protected all but the wearer's face. Officers and men...each wore a thick suit of underclothing, one or two flannel shirts, a jersey, a pair of pilot cloth trousers, and a pyjama jacket. Some wore a woollen scarf, while others relied on a collar to keep their necks warm. [What on earth is pilot cloth?] Regards, Brenda Brenda W. Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD from Tor Books. http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 15:39:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14659 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:39:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02316; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:50:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02393 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:48:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from voicenet.com (mail12.voicenet.com [207.103.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA02379 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:48:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 17264 invoked from network); 24 Aug 1999 20:48:23 -0000 Received: from dialpool1444-pri.voicenet.com (209.71.89.111) by mail12.voicenet.com with SMTP; 24 Aug 1999 20:48:23 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19990824154113.4dcfa288@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: enilorac@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:41:13 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Caroline Dechert Subject: Re: H-COST: antarctica In-Reply-To: <199908242003.QAA27697@smtp3.erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Caroline Dechert Some detail about the Scott expedition's clothing can be found in Roland Huntford's Scott and Amundsen, which was later re- released as The Last Place on Earth. The video 90 South, from Milestone Film and Video (212-865-7449) shows actual footage of the expedition. The BBC production The Last Place on Earth (now out on video) seems to have reproduced the clothing fairly exactly. ---Caroline Dechert enilorac@voicenet.com / Carodec@aol.com / caroline@agcsys.com "How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks." Dorothy Sayers, Gaudy_Night _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 15:41:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14672 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:41:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02617; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:52:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03211 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:51:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03188 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:51:49 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6DVCa20496 (8017) for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:51:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:51:10 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Quest about how much to charge for costuming To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com I don't recommend not declaring this income. Charge a really decent wage, say $15 an hour, and declare it as schedule C income. You can deduct all your expenses from this, you know, but you should pay your fair share of taxes on it. (This can be a lot, since you not only pay income tax but also both employer and employee portion of social security.) But I don't really want to have to face my Maker for diddling the government out of relatively minuscule taxes. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 16:10:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14710 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:10:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08399; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:23:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA09643 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:21:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09635 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:21:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.138] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11JO0X-0004ua-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 14:21:30 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:40:11 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Quest about how much to charge for costuming In-Reply-To: <84c6a401.24f43765@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 01:59 PM 8/24/99 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: Finafyr@aol.com > >I have been asked by alot of people to make costumes for them...but so far I >have not been abole to figure out how much to charge.....can anyone help me >figure out how much to charge????? >Renee The rule of thumb most of the seamstresses I have known use was: twice the cost of all the materials and/or pattern, plus enough to cover their time [the latter varying with the complexity of the work and their experience, as well as personal factors]. Carol / Gra/inne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 16:52:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14752 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:52:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16431; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:06:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA18820 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:05:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18791 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:05:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-244-79.s79.tnt4.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.244.79]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA14164; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001501beee7c$6ea33e20$4ff4accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Cc: "h-needlework" Subject: H-COST: World Millenium Quilt Contest Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:02:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" May be someone can help us with this question: The CSA National Office has had a person call from the Czech Republic, asking for info on a World Millenium Quilt Contest. Does anyone know anything about this? Or can you pass this message to someone who might know. Later... Penny http://www.costumesocietyamerica.com (my other hat) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 17:03:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14789 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:03:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18174; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:17:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20887 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:13:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20875 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:13:55 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6BGWa02400 (4000) for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:12:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:12:27 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: National Geographic To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 8/24/1999 12:03:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, penny.creative.outlets@erols.com writes: << If I remember the reviews correctly, the CD is not indexed well and that you have to print out a whole page. You can't just cut out the image if you need to like having the magazine in hand. The program will not allow you to cut and paste anything into your software programs. This is for copyright protection. It is very similar to looking at a website on Aricobat Reader (sp). I was really excited about the CD when it came out. Then it was priced $199. I listened to the reviews. I am glad I sat on my hands. But listening to the reviews helped me decide how to layout my Vintage Publications. I wanted the public to be able to use in a friendly manner the images and text. >> But if you just want the images to design clothes of your own, that's not really much of a drawback. I recognize that perhaps you can't utilize them, but for my purposes, it's really a way to incorporate periods into the ultimate costume that I'm creating, so not replicating photos except in pages from NG isn't too much to sacrifice. $129 is not much more than I'd pay for a larger reference tome, and I don't cut those up, right? Your son's collection sound fabulous, but since I've packed my house to the rafters with vintage and costumes, I don't know where I'd put actual mags! EEK! Thanks for the input though, I may keep my eyes open for particularly interesting old NG's at thrift stores. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare http://come.to/costumes http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 17:08:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14796 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:08:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19007; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:22:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA22477 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:21:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22467 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:21:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-239-247.s628.tnt10.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [216.164.239.247]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA24919 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:24:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000c01beee80$4da77fc0$f7efa4d8@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: Juan Alcega's farthingale Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:30:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" I've always just worn a bumroll under my Elizabethans and have decided to make a farthingale. I'm interested in hearing from people who have used the Juan Alcega farthingale method of tucks as casings, rather than using some sort of tape as casing. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 17:37:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14832 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:37:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23425; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:51:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28934 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:50:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28924 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:50:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p7.directcon.net [206.170.184.56]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA13933 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908242249.PAA13933@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Winter and Savoy Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 09:16 PM 08/23/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: seamstrix@juno.com > >I would agree with everything Margo has said and add a few items more. >They recommend several sleeve styles that just aren't correct. The >multi-pieced "Italian" sleeve is wrong, and the one they call a "Queen's" >sleeve is also wrong. I think that it is a blending of a mahoitered >sleeve with a mid-reign mondo shoulder roll, but the version they give in >the book never really existed. Good heavens, you're right. I've assumed this sleeve was correct for so long that I never noticed that it doesn't seem to exist. Thanks for pointing it out. running off to edit my website, Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 17:37:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14836 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:37:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23523; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:51:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29050 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:50:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29029 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:50:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-239-247.s628.tnt10.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [216.164.239.247]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA06449 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:53:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007601beee84$5ae4f240$f7efa4d8@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: good middle eastern Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:59:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" I'm looking for good reliable refrences for medival or renassaince middle eastern. I admit that I am a "garb snark", so I will not make it unless I can document it. I'd like to do middle eastern as an alternative persona, but don't know anyone who does it. Please point me in the right direction. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 18:22:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14924 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:22:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28350; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:36:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA07103 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:33:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07093 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:33:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p7.directcon.net [206.170.184.56]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA19696 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 16:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908242333.QAA19696@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Juan Alcega's farthingale Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 06:30 PM 08/24/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > >I've always just worn a bumroll under my Elizabethans and have decided to >make a farthingale. I'm interested in hearing from people who have used the >Juan Alcega farthingale method of tucks as casings, rather than using some >sort of tape as casing. I did it once, for a Victorian hoopskirt a Long time ago. As I recall, it worked just fine, as long as the tucks are on the inside of the garment, if they're one the outside the hoops stick out. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 18:31:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14930 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:31:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29129; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:45:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08422 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:41:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08404 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:41:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-146.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.146]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA20796 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:41:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990824192552.00a13d40@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:25:52 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: nipples & breasts showing In-Reply-To: <37BF23D2.33BA5040@home.com> References: <3e1b51ef.24f06ae6@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >> 'I am not so >> much against the tavern wench look (although of course, there is so >> much out there that is accurate and sexy) it is the fact that no self >> respecting woman of any class in history until the 20th century would >> have let her bosom hang out like that. Never. > >What about the Minoans and the virgins of Queen Elizabeth I's court? I >was under the impression that both wore clothing which revealed the >nipple if not the entire bust. I would have to look for the pictures but, I can document nipples showing for England, Spain, France & I believe Italy, in the 16th century. However, none of these in any way resembled the "wench" look (yuck). Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 18:31:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14933 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:31:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29134; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:45:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08430 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:41:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08421 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:41:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-146.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.146]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA20807 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:41:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990824193534.00a14140@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:35:34 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Nursing Mothers in Period Art In-Reply-To: <37ce4b7a.173520264@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <000301beeccd$0a6cb5e0$820bfdd0@sharp-9070-> <000301beeccd$0a6cb5e0$820bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, There is a unique style of gown in a Spanish portrait. "Virgin and Child" by Luis de Morales, c. 1570 (Museo del Prado, Madrid). The Virgin is wearing a red gown with two slits in it joined with a button at the neckline. the slits reach from the centre front neckline diagonally to each breast/nipple. The Virgin's smock appears to have a centre (?) opening in it and is obviously pulled to the side as needed. I know this is later than needed but, the lines of the gown actually resemble earlier Spanish gowns. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 18:31:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14938 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:31:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29132; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:45:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08443 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:41:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08433 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:41:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-146.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.146]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA20823 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990824194420.00a137e0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:44:20 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: H-COST: Syke's Sutlering - help In-Reply-To: <37ce4b7a.173520264@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <000301beeccd$0a6cb5e0$820bfdd0@sharp-9070-> <000301beeccd$0a6cb5e0$820bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, Can anyone please help me track down contact info for Syke's Sutlering? Thanks, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 19:00:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15051 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:00:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02459; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:13:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13157 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:12:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13149 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:12:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p7.directcon.net [206.170.184.56]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA24984 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 17:12:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908250012.RAA24984@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: nipples & breasts showing Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >I would have to look for the pictures but, I can document nipples showing >for England, Spain, France & I believe Italy, in the 16th century. >However, none of these in any way resembled the "wench" look (yuck). > I'd be very interested to see references. Let me reiterate that I said "*ladies* of the court", so pictures of courtesans don't count! Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 19:12:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15131 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:12:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03546; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:26:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA14957 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:26:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14949 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:26:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-3.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.3]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA01445 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:26:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990824202507.00a2bd90@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:25:07 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Winter and Savoy In-Reply-To: <199908242249.PAA13933@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, My opinion on Winter & Savoy - a good place for a beginner to start if used in conjunction with Arnold's "Pattern's of Fashion". Used on it's own there are too many errors and "created" fashions. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 19:12:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15134 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:12:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03549; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:26:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA14952 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:26:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14940 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-3.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.3]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA01438 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:25:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990824201831.00a2aa20@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:18:31 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts In-Reply-To: <199908232018.NAA50982@scv4.apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Check out Breughel's pictures of crowds of lower-income people-- >the sort you would expect to be hanging things off their belts. If >I recall correctly, you only occasionally see someone with an object >hanging off his or her belt-- and usually it's a belt pouch, but not >everybody pictured has a belt pouch. Actually, I have seen the strangest thing. In "Victoria and Albert Museum The Tapestry Collection, Medieval and Renaissance" by George Wingfield Digby, HMSO, c 1980. There are two tapestries, "La Main Chaude" & "Rustic Sports", in which almost everyone in these tapestries are wearing odd swaths of light (white? - the pictures are B&W) coloured fabric which have metal rings sewn to them and various items are tied to the rings. Things like: combs, scissors, rosaries, bundles & containers, knives, a recorder like instrument, and various other things which I can't readily identify. The text identifies most of the people as shepherds & shepherdessess. There are no dates or locations for either of these tapestries but, I would guess 2nd half 15th century, possibly Flemish. So for those who need to suspend things from their waist - a new approach. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 19:45:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15183 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:45:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05884; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:59:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19149 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:58:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19129 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 18:58:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA29059 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:58:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA22579 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:59:02 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:59:02 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Syke's Sutlering - help In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990824194420.00a137e0@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Hi! They have an URL with an online catalog at http://members.aol.com/~sykesutler/ It was great meeting you at Pennsic. Too bad I didn't have more time to hang out with you guys. Next year, though, I am for absolute sure not Managing the War Chronicle, and will have more time for classes and fun stuff. Will you be at the Tournament of Chivalry in Akron, OH? See you soon, Drea On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Danielle Nunn wrote: > > -Poster: Danielle Nunn > > Greetings, > > Can anyone please help me track down contact info for Syke's Sutlering? > > Thanks, > Danielle > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 20:51:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15260 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:51:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11601; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:05:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA27451 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:04:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27427 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:04:23 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip216.van18.pacifier.com [216.65.137.216]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id TAA06670 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:04:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908250204.TAA06670@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 19:06:54 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: nipples & breasts showing Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19990824192552.00a13d40@mail.interlog.com> References: <37BF23D2.33BA5040@home.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > I would have to look for the pictures but, I can document nipples showing > for England, Spain, France & I believe Italy, in the 16th century. > However, none of these in any way resembled the "wench" look (yuck). It was always my impression that this was either extremely late Elizabethan or Jacobean. Most of the actual portrait I've seen have had the nipples painted over (making the neckline look like the women have *very* low hanging breasts) but the woodcuts show them more clearly. But like you say, none of them look like the women with the dresses off the shoulders or their breasts hanging over the top of their bodice as one sees at many Renn Faires and SCA events (usually on "fringie" types, rather than the women who are making contributions to the group.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 21:00:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15279 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:00:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12677; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:14:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28811 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28806 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 20:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA02749 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:13:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA28342 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:14:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:14:13 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: OOPS-Syke's Sutlering - help In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Doh! Sorry about that, list. That was meant to be a private message. Drea > On Tue, 24 Aug 1999, Danielle Nunn wrote: > > > > > -Poster: Danielle Nunn > > > > Greetings, > > > > Can anyone please help me track down contact info for Syke's Sutlering? > > > > Thanks, > > Danielle > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 23:19:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15436 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:19:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27391; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:33:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA19050 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:32:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from falcon.canfield.com (falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19037 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:32:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Leslie (u6-24.wa.net [206.191.135.88]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA05034 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:37:34 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990824212959.036e26c0@mail.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslie@mail.canfield.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:33:06 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: Good Middle Eastern In-Reply-To: <199908242343.RAA08770@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Leslie Helms To do proper Middle Eastern, you must consult Jennifer Scarce's book "Women's Costume in the Near and Middle East." Accept no substitutes. If you can't quote from this book, the other garb snarks will mock you. It's available through Amazon and/or Barnes & Noble online. (The price SHOULD be about $38 but I've seen it listed at $70. Check around.) Leslie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 23:33:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15479 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:33:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28318; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:44:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA20394 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:44:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20389 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:44:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-91.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.91]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA07077 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:44:07 -0700 Message-ID: <001f01beeeb4$b120e6c0$5baba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: Titanic revisited Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 21:45:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" I have a couple of questions for anyone who has seen the Titanic on Tour exhibit (Jenny, Penny?)regarding the Dinner Dress and the Jump Dress. I have been checking out some of the photos that are up on the web and I am a bit perplexed about a few things that I'm hoping someone on the list can clear up for me. With regard to the Jump Dress, I read on "That Sinking Feeling" web site that this dress used no sequins at all and that it was black and clear "pearls". Is this true? If so, what kind of pearls? Where they iridescent or just plain black and clear? They also said on this web site that the round medallions at the bottom of the dress were rows of circled black pearls with no sequins. Is this true? I have found two different pictures of the bottom of the jump dress on the web but they almost appear to be two different dresses. On one, the black sheer overdress comes straight across at the bottom in the front and is held together with two rhinstone "buttons". Kind of like this: | \ / | | \ / | | \/ | | ____*_____| Bottom of Sheer Overdress The other looks more like it slants down and towards the back and is not held together at all. Kind of like this: | / \ | | / \ | | / \ | |/ \| Bottom of Sheer Overdress Were there two different dresses circulating on the exhibit circuit? Also, with regard to the Dinner Dress, are there any seams in the black overdress, or is it all one continuous piece cut strategically? How are the front, right-sided "flounces" integrated into the back and train section? I have some pretty good pictures of different views (front, side and back) that I got of the web, but I am wracking my brains trying to figure out how the h*** they draped it?!! Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 24 23:59:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15524 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:59:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29743; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:04:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA22291 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:03:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scorpion.netspace.net.au (scorpion.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.106]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22276 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:03:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by scorpion.netspace.net.au (8.9.1/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id PAA11815 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:03:27 +1000 (EST) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-29.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.250.29]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id PAA15772 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:03:25 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199908250503.PAA15772@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: H-COST: Antarctic Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:28:47 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" Over the last year or so, with certain anniversaries and re-jigging of Antarctic treaties, there have been a lot of articles in Australian newspapers, including pictures, covering events from the beginning of this century. At least one of these has a web site where you might be able to call stuff up through: www.theage.com.au Also, there is a picture of Mawson, one of the early explorers, on the Australian $100...or so I am told (but one of these days...!) -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 00:19:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15545 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 00:19:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01986; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:31:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA25413 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:30:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25392 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:30:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from slave (BayArea56k578.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.178]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id WAA11955 for ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:30:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C37EDA.2F1@netwiz.net> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 22:27:54 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Good Middle Eastern References: <4.1.19990824212959.036e26c0@mail.canfield.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi Leslie Helms wrote: > > -Poster: Leslie Helms > > To do proper Middle Eastern, you must consult Jennifer Scarce's book > "Women's Costume in the Near and Middle East." Accept no substitutes. If > you can't quote from this book, the other garb snarks will mock you. It's > available through Amazon and/or Barnes & Noble online. (The price SHOULD > be about $38 but I've seen it listed at $70. Check around.) > > Leslie > __ You can also try bibliofind.com and bookfinder.com. I have a photocopy version of this book, but the real one is on my wishlist! I have to point out that the book is primarily about Turkish costume, and fairly late. Try finding books with Persian/Turkish/Moghul paintings from the period you're interested in. Oh, and Wendy Buonaventura's "Serpent of the Nile." Terrific illustrations. And the *fabulous* Max Tilke: http://www.indiana.edu/~librcsd/etext/tilke/contents.html good luck! Susan Fatemi -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From Cheryl@sessionware.com Wed Aug 25 00:49:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from dynamic.sessionware.com (dynamic.sessionware.com [208.147.50.22]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA15579 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 00:49:43 -0400 Received: by dynamic.sessionware.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:07:44 -0700 Message-ID: <59E9557D345BD2118F2200A0C925BF9816B6CA@dynamic.sessionware.com> From: Hand-Fan Webmaster To: Cc: "'lfdutra@ibm.net'" Subject: Special FAN auction, Thursday August 26th Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 23:07:36 -0700 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 Return-Receipt-To: Hand-Fan Webmaster X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Status: RO Hello! I hope you have had a great summer. I will be working on updating the fan website in the next week, but wanted to send you this important announcement about rare fans for sale in São Paulo, Brazil that arrived this evening in my mailbox: Dutra Auctions are selling by auction an important fan collection on August 26th. 18 are Imperial fans from 18th and 19th century, all of them about Brazil and Portugal, Bragança and Orleans family - D.Maria I, D. João VI, D. Pedro I and D. Pedro II, weddings, birthdays, Brazil´s independence date and others memorial dates. If you would like more information about this auction, please contact Dutra Auctions at the above email address or visit their website: Home page: http://www.dutraleiloes.com.br/ Fan images: http://www.dutraleiloes.com.br/cat06.html http://www.dutraleiloes.com.br/cat07.html I will send out another notice once the fan website has been updated. **Please note: The International Fan Collector's Guild never sells or distributes the email addresses of its members** Sincerely Cheryl _______________________________ Cheryl Melnick, Webmistress International Fan Collector's Guild webmistress@hand-fan.org * 408-559-7799 x 222 http://www.hand-fan.org From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 01:51:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15764 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 01:51:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07907; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 01:05:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA03955 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 01:04:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spdmgaae.compuserve.com (ds-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.206.138]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03948 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 01:04:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id DAA19913 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:03:47 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:03:31 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: good middle eastern To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908250303_MC2-823E-6857@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id BAA03950 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson Try joining Spicetrial@onelist.com, dedicated to ME stuff Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 01:57:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15768 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 01:57:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08023; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 01:05:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA04047 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 01:05:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spamgaaa.compuserve.com (as-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.217.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04041 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 01:05:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id DAA22710 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:03:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:03:30 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Nipples & breast showing To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908250303_MC2-823E-6855@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id BAA04042 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson >> 'I am not so >> much against the tavern wench look (although of course, there is so >> much out there that is accurate and sexy) it is the fact that no self >> respecting woman of any class in history until the 20th century would >> have let her bosom hang out like that. Never. > >What about the Minoans and the virgins of Queen Elizabeth I's court? I >was under the impression that both wore clothing which revealed the >nipple if not the entire bust. >I would have to look for the pictures but, I can document nipples showing for England, Spain, France & I believe Italy, in the 16th century. However, none of these in any way resembled the "wench" look (yuck). And Bronze age , african , polynesians, early 19th nipples were rouged and dresses wet in high fashion, to show off the nipples see many issues of punch etc, ladies dyed of pneumonia because of their keeness to show off their nipples. Victirian bustle style evening dresses were pretty bust revealing too. Examples are pretty numerous although I fear I may be getting too old to go for those styles :0) Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 03:48:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12240 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:48:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA14019; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:03:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA13064 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:01:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA13056 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:01:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JF6IFMG8CG002X1V@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:05:09 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JF6IFKEBNY002NEU@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:04:59 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:00:39 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:00:12 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:00:11 +1100 Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:00:11 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: Re: H-COST: Winter and Savoy In-reply-to: <199908242343.RAA08770@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <238F1AE37AD@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 Hi all, I've heard this book referred to but never seen a copy. Did Imiss the ISBN and other details (like title?) being posted or is it so well- known that no-one bothered? Would some kind soul pleas post the details (again)? Many thanks Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 04:19:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12349 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 04:19:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15323; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:32:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA05474 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:32:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05397 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:32:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-69-124.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.69.124]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04011 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 02:32:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C35674.D1778DB5@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 02:35:52 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Pants References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings Lilinah wrote: > I saw a guy at an SCA Collegium (where classes are taught and people learn > about being more authentic) in a more-or-less Elizabethan doublet with > slashed panels on the sleeves. With it he is wearing a pair of loose pants, > obviously made to go with his doublet, cuz they have matching slashed panels > running down the legs; they come down to his *ankles* (or the tops of his > feet, actually) and have a *lace cuff* there. Well, I can't judge because I didn't see them, but is possible that they were period. If this more-or-less Elizabethan doublet was German he could have been wearing pluderhosen. These were very baggy and tied off at the knee, or sometimes longer as far down as the ankle. There's an example of these in Janet Arnold. > These are pants of absolutely no period - what an odd (and ugly) concatenation > of styles. I mean, if he thinks it's "weird" to wear proper Elizabethan men's > pants (and there a variety of shape choices - one doesn't have to wear the > little pumkins), why does he think these ugly pants look good? I'm guessing, > because they *feel* like modern pants? There are examples from 16th c. Frisia that show men wearing what looks exactly like modern pants with very wide legs. They would fit right along side the baggy pants that kids wear today, except they don't drag on the ground, but stop six inches short. These were mostly poor fisherman, so I imagine the short hem kept them out of the water. The jacket worn with them looks just like an old-fashioned flannel coat. Why do people think that modern ugly clothes look good? Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 04:24:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12355 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 04:24:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15331; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:32:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA05704 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:32:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05644 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:32:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-69-124.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.69.124]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04026 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 02:32:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C35677.4D0E6A7@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 02:35:56 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: antarctica References: <199908231501.IAA04134@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Margo suggested: > Has anyone mentioned the National Geographic Society as a source for research > on late 19th and 20th century explorers? Copious photos and articles have > been printed in the magazine, in addition the Society sponsors expiditions > and could probably make records available. A better source might be the Royal Geographic Society. Scott was a member and was heavily funded by them, I believe. Hope added: >> The responses have covered at least three entirely separate expeditions: >> Amundson, Scott, and Schackleton. Very different time frames, groups, and >> internal politics. Can't generalize from one to the other. I think, but am >> not sure, that is was the Scott expediton that involved the nordic skis >> and dog sleds. Nope. the Scott expedition got in a lot of trouble because he DIDN'T use dogs and sleds. He tried to be modern and use motor sledges, but the extreme conditions in Antarctica prevented them from running. One of them was lost almost immediately when it broke through the ice and sank. He also tried to use Siberian ponies. Unfortunately, the man he sent to buy them new nothing about horses and bought old and sickly animals. Amundsen used dogs and sleds, left later than Scott and beat him to the poll. Scott reached the pool only to find that he was not the first and died trying to make it to his supply cache. >> Those who raced to the pole all died. I thought it was a mixed nationality >> group. In any event, most of my info on it came from a very detailed Public >> Television show a few years ago. Whether to travel heavy or light was a >> matter of constant debate. Scott's expedition was all Brits. They had a lot of trouble with supplies. Their horses died one by one on the way to the poll. In the end they were on foot. I believe the PBS (BBC?) series was: THE LAST PLACE ON EARTH (Scott and Amundsen) The story of the epic (and ultimately tragic) race to the South Pole between rival explorers Robert Falcon Scott and Raold Amundsen, as seen on MASTERPIECE THEATRE. $129.98 seven vol. set 6 1/2 hours Color Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 04:31:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12361 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 04:31:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA15325; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:32:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA05285 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:32:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw3.pacbell.net (mail-gw3.pacbell.net [206.13.28.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05182 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 03:32:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-69-124.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.69.124]) by mail-gw3.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03998 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 02:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C35670.9D86E542@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 02:35:49 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Tavern Wench garb References: <199908201913.NAA01191@net.indra.com> <37BE0638.112CE322@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Elisabeth wrote: > I've noticed more men looking at those who create more cleavage and/or > can set a tankard down on top, though...so that's probably influenced > some on that subject. ...and in a later post: > It's 'cuz so many hetero guys are attracted to, ahem, exposed mammery flesh. > Guys may not "respect" the woman who is so exposed, but many will sure be > "attracted" to her. Ergo, the woman so undressed is "attractive", i.e., is > one who attracts attention. Yes, but not gentlemen. I've never understood this fascination with looking like you have a bald midget under each arm. If I want a plate of cottage cheese, I'll get it from the grocery store, thank you very much. ;-) > Well, at Northern California, the thing has been to have live rats in one's > bodice, poking there heads out of the cleavage. (Shrug) Rats are decent > pets, but i wouldn't want to expose them to the extreme heat of combined > weather and, errr, body heat, poor little things One local weirdness at the RPFS (So Cal) is for people to wear fur tails...poor jokes about 'getting a little tail' abound. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 05:07:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12381 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 05:07:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA17008; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 04:15:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA08180 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 04:14:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA08170 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 04:14:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29344 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 06:13:18 -0400 Message-ID: <37C3C1C5.9ED72948@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 06:14:45 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts References: <3.0.1.32.19990824201831.00a2aa20@mail.interlog.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue An excellent option, that technique. Only one note to add: when I was at the V&A, the entry in the flyer said they weren't "actual" shepherds & shepherdesses, they were nobles who went out to the country to pretend to be rustics, for kicks. Possibly similar to us moderns who pretend to be from other times. cv > Digby, HMSO, c 1980. There are two tapestries, "La Main Chaude" & "Rustic > Sports", in which almost everyone in these tapestries are wearing odd > swaths of light (white? - the pictures are B&W) coloured fabric which have > metal rings sewn to them and various items are tied to the rings. Things > like: combs, scissors, rosaries, bundles & containers, knives, a recorder > like instrument, and various other things which I can't readily identify. > The text identifies most of the people as shepherds & shepherdessess. > > There are no dates or locations for either of these tapestries but, I would > guess 2nd half 15th century, possibly Flemish. So for those who need to > suspend things from their waist - a new approach. > > Cheers, > Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 06:45:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12428 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 06:45:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22669; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 06:00:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA17241 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 05:59:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spdmgaab.compuserve.com (ds-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.206.135]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17236 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 05:59:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id HAA14845 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:57:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:57:05 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: World war 2 jacket To: LIST historic costume Message-ID: <199908250757_MC2-8243-4BC@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id FAA17237 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson Somebody wanted one of these a while back, try cg@blunderbuss.demon.co.uk if it isn't too late now Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 07:52:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12548 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:52:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28114; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:06:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA24063 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:05:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24046 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:05:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.210.92] (ell236.acadia.net [205.217.210.92]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA00791 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:05:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:07:01 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: national geographic Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> On the other hand, the National Geographic home page has an extensive index, so you can look things up there and find the actual articles elsewhere. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 08:44:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12600 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 08:44:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04075; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:58:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA01788 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:57:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01779 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 07:57:48 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6UQHa28698 (4221) for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1a3c9b62.24f55026@aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:56:54 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Pants To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com Good question, Dietmar--I've wondered that one myself. Cheers-- albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 09:56:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12712 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:56:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14484; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17218 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:09:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from post.its.mcw.edu (post-v30.its.mcw.edu [141.106.30.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17204 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:09:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mschulte@localhost) by post.its.mcw.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA09637 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:02:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Marie Schulte Message-Id: <199908251502.KAA09637@post.its.mcw.edu> Subject: H-COST: linen sources To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:02:36 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marie Schulte Hi All! I know, I know...I should have kept old posts, but didn't. I have been commissioned to make a lot of curtains (20+ yds), and need linen for the project. I was hoping to find an on-line source, for contact and price and description lists. Does anyone have a favourtie source of light to medium weight off white/cream/light natural linen - favourite as far as reliability, price, and quality. Or a suggestion of a master web list where I can find the info. Please, post me privately, in case the main list doesn't want the info. THANKS A LOT!!! Marie (mschulte@post.its.mcw.edu) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 10:32:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12758 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:32:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19706; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:46:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA25450 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:45:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25435 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:45:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29955 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:44:07 -0400 Message-ID: <37C40F4F.2684E03D@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:44:19 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: linen sources References: <199908251502.KAA09637@post.its.mcw.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Perhaps, once you have all the responses, you could post a summary back to the list? -- "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown-up" --C.S. Lewis _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 10:36:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12768 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:36:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20375; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:50:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26559 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:49:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26542 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:49:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clough (207-172-38-119.s119.tnt8.ann.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.38.119]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA03760 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199908251549.LAA03760@smtp3.erols.com> X-Sender: clough@pop.erols.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Brenda and Larry Clough Subject: Re: H-COST: National Geographic Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough At 09:30 AM 8/24/99 PDT, you wrote: > >I have the CD set of NG going back to day one. If I have time this weekend, >I'll be happy to check it out and see if there is any useful info on the >subject. Actually, I wouldn't mind doing a search for anyone (well, within >reason) with this nifty tool, just let me know what you want looked up. > > Hi, Kate. That's a very nice offer, and I cannot resist taking you up on it! What I am looking for is the issue(s) that actually dealt with the Scott Expedition's final fate. The news was announced to the world in February 1913, so the issues would almost certainly be after that. Perhaps the March or April 1913 issue? I've checked the on-line index of NG, and it's so annoying! They have a number of articles about the effort to reach the South Pole, dating from 1901, 1903, and 1904. But there's nothing at all after that until 1922. Now I know that they wouldn't have let a major exploration/geography story like that just never be mentioned at all. It would be like writing a history of last year and never mentioning Monica Lewinsky. I suspect that the online index is imperfect -- I've already caught them in one mistake. So if you would check this for me, I would appreciate it. Once I know the date, I can scout around in library microfiches, or go down to the NG headquarters and look in their files. I am going out of town this weekend, but I should be able to access my email. REgards, Brenda Brenda W. Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD from Tor Books. http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 11:38:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12880 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:38:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01983; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:51:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12079 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:50:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12058 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:50:53 -0600 (MDT) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6KAOa07549 (3968) for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:50:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <97d7f917.24f578cd@aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:50:21 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: National Geographic To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 8/24/99 1:17:24 PM Central Daylight Time, MzScahlett@aol.com writes: << How does one acquire the CD set of NG for the past? That sounds like a neat tool. Is it readily available to the consumer?? >> Best Buy sells them in my area, Illinois. Kelly m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 11:45:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12887 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:45:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03302; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:59:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14058 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:58:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx20.rmci.net (saturn.rmci.net [205.162.184.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA14025 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:58:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 8294 invoked from network); 25 Aug 1999 16:58:44 -0000 Received: from pag-di59.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.59) by mx20.rmci.net with SMTP; 25 Aug 1999 16:58:44 -0000 Message-ID: <37C41FF3.1AB55B57@rica.net> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:55:17 -0400 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Titanic revisited References: <001f01beeeb4$b120e6c0$5baba0d1@j9g8x8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jennie Chancey >From the photos I've seen from three different exhibits, I believe there are different versions of the dresses traveling around the world. The "dinner" dress I saw in the Paramount exhibit *did* have sequins -- very tiny "dented" (I don't know the word for it, but they weren't flat) sequins. Someone told me that the dress in the tour I saw was not the one worn in the film but one of the originals that was copied for the film. I am not too sure about that. The overskirt is one piece in back, pulled up to the lower left of the bodice and tacked down. The skirt front layers are sewn onto a bottom layer of netting, leaving the tops of the diagonal layers free (almost like a ruffle, but not that full). The beading appeared to have been done on the layers before they were sewn to the netting, since the beading stitches didn't hold the layers down. Then the entire overskirt front is pulled up to the bottom left of the bodice and secured with a rhinestone clasp. (This is tough to describe without illustrations!) The draping on this dress must have been a nightmare. Even after seeing good photos of the back of the dress, I don't see clearly how it was done. The back of the gown is smooth, but only because part of the fabric was pulled up, as I mentioned above. As for the "jump" dress, I know there are several of them out there, since J. Peterman sold one and there are still two on display in two different parts of the world right now (Australia and Germany if not also in other places). I speculate that these were "trial" runs of the gown used in the film. Deborah Scott also did several versions of the "swim" dress before she got the look she wanted (you can see the other versions in the book _James Cameron's "Titanic"_). The descriptions of the jump dress from J. Peterman say that the original gown had 35,000 Austrian crystal beads that were painted silver inside to help reflect lights and make them sparkle more on film. The little "buttons" you describe are of rhinestones and are on the front of the split layer of the upper overskirt of that gown--one on each side of the split layer at the knee--and there are four on the shoulders of the gown as well (two on each shoulder). There is another overskirt beneath the split one, and it has one row of "medallions" sewn onto it. This layer comes down to the next layer of "medallions" that are sewn onto the red underskirt. The middle overskirt has beads hanging from the bottom, and the red skirt has beads at the hem. These are also the Austrian crystal beads. The J. Peterman illustration is quite accurate in its depiction of these layers and trims. I don't know about there being zero sequins. It sure looks like there are some, but it may just be the shiny-ness of the crystal beads. Hope this is helpful! Cheers, Jennie Chancey -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 12:19:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12924 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:19:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07753; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:33:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22061 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:32:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22051 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:32:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p31.directcon.net [206.170.184.80]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA27602 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:31:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:31:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908251731.KAA27602@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Costume College Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Having had such an overwhelming response to the review of the Simplicity Elizabethan pattern that I posted, I've decided to put together a workshop on the subject. I'd like to teach it at Costume College. Does anyone know who I contact? Margo Anderson Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 12:47:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12948 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:47:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11601; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:01:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27655 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:59:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA27636 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:59:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:58:50 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199908251731.KAA27602@zeus.directcon.net> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 10:59:01 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume College Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >Having had such an overwhelming response to the review of the Simplicity >Elizabethan pattern that I posted, I've decided to put together a workshop >on the subject. I'd like to teach it at Costume College. Does anyone know >who I contact? > >Margo Anderson >Margo Anderson >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > Margo, what a great idea! That sounds as if it will be a really helpful class. I don't know how much help this will be: Jess Miller was dean last year and would be able to forward info/this idea to the right person. I have all that info, like everyone else, at home and can't get to it until this evening. If you haven't gotten a decent response by tomorrow morning when I get to this computer, I'll send the info out. I was there - I wish we had met. Hey, maybe we did and just didn't know it! LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 12:56:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12954 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:56:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12858; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:09:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29908 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:09:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29878 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p31.directcon.net [206.170.184.80]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01855 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 11:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908251808.LAA01855@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume College Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >I was there - I wish we had met. Hey, maybe we did and just didn't know it! > >LynnD No, I've haven't been to Costume College. It's been impossible to get away for the last 6 years...but now my youngest is weaned, it should be easier, and I'm looking forward to it. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 13:16:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12982 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:16:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15684; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:28:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04109 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:27:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04103 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:27:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn15.pm3-5.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.241.106]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05621 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:27:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908251827.MAA05621@sight.vcn.com> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Tavern Wench garb Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:58:05 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Ah, Dietmar, such a talent for the right "turn of phrase".... hee hee. The point missed in all the examples of "women exposing bosom", I think, is that all these examples are of nice round "just got 'em from the Bosom Store" breasts. A very uncomfrotable place to get a sunburn, but generally not objectionable in appearance. This "youthful" look seems to have been the point of most corsetry through the ages. The major objection seems to be to the "two empty bags flapping in the breeze" look - NOT very attractive in any context. I think the Moral of the Story is, when Gravity has become your Enemy, put 'em away.... Liadain > Greetings, like you have a bald midget under each arm. If I want a plate of cottage > cheese, I'll get it from the grocery store, thank you very much. ;-) > One local weirdness at the RPFS (So Cal) is for people to wear fur > tails...poor jokes about 'getting a little tail' abound. > > Regards, > > Dietmar > > > "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; > over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 14:09:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13170 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:09:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24055; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:21:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA15990 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:20:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15973 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:20:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6FSQa03769 (3895) for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:19:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <981afa40.24f59bdc@aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:19:56 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: Winter and Savoy To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Actually, I don't know if this book is available in stores. I have only seen it at SCA events, and I've seen ads for mail order. It's a self-published kind of thing, though nicely done, with line drawings and typed text -- perfect bound, about an inch plus thick. It costs about $20 US, and it's a do-it-yourself kind of guide to Elizabethan dress. Nothing like Drea's web site :-), but I think it's a great introduction. I made my first Elizabethan stuff by following it, and I think I got the right general look -- although the shirt-as-partlet thingie does NOT work. I wouldn't have touched Janet Arnold with a 10-foot pole at the time. The Winter and Savoy book is a "you can do it" approach to the general look and feel, not a guide to authentic costuming. It's a good start! Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 14:45:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13245 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:45:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00318; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:59:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24930 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:59:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24916 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:59:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p25.directcon.net [206.170.184.74]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA14711 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:58:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:58:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908251958.MAA14711@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Long hair mailing list? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson A while back someone on the list mentioned a long hair mailing list. Could someone point me to it? Margo "Stop me before I cut my bangs again!" Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 14:59:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13261 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:59:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02697; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:13:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28318 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:12:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28302 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:12:36 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28610 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:12:26 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA09217 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:12:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:12:24 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Long hair mailing list? In-Reply-To: <199908251958.MAA14711@zeus.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com I do not remember that one but I did talk to the guy that does the videos and he has more, here is his info. Jim Butchee (bu-shay) 214-668-6122 I will be putting his information on the web page as he is interested in doing braiding at local fairs or events on sundays for any organization. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, Margo Anderson wrote: > Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:58:17 -0700 (PDT) > From: Margo Anderson > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Long hair mailing list? > > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > A while back someone on the list mentioned a long hair mailing list. Could > someone point me to it? > > Margo > "Stop me before I cut my bangs again!" > > > > Margo Anderson > "One Tough Costumer" > http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 15:07:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13272 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:07:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04054; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:20:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA00355 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:20:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00346 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id NAA09288; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:20:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C45060.39CCCE94@serv.net> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 13:21:52 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Winter and Savoy References: <981afa40.24f59bdc@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover I believe you can purchase this book through www.greenduck.com They are an SCA merchant that sells from their website too. Cynthia > Actually, I don't know if this book is available in stores. I have only seen > it at SCA events, and I've seen ads for mail order. -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 15:22:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13289 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:22:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06346; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:36:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03735 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:35:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03720 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:35:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.161.142]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA10444 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37C45409.C7347DF@mediaone.net> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:37:29 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Long hair mailing list? References: <199908251958.MAA14711@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas It's at http://www.tlhs.org -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 15:49:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13302 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:49:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10250; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:01:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA10018 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:01:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from falcon.canfield.com (falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10010 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:01:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Leslie (u6-44.wa.net [206.191.135.108]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA06715 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:06:02 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990825132736.036ea7e0@mail.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslie@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:00:42 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: Winter/Savoy Elizabethan & Middle Eastern In-Reply-To: <199908250902.DAA13095@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Leslie Helms Elizabethan Costuming by Janet Winter & Carolyn Savoy is out of print, or sporadically in print, or some combination of those. I have searches out for it but no hits so far. ISBN is 0-9630220-0-8 from Other Times Publishing. There is supposed to be a Victorian version also, and a Medieval version was promised as "coming soon" in the 1987 print of the Elizabethan book that I have borrowed. Haven't seen either of them yet. If someone finds a source, do share. It's marginally correct, but that would still constitute a drastic improvement in much SCA Elizabethan costuming. (You wince, Miz Blackdane, but you know it's true!) I suspect, or at least hope, that Ren Faire standards have generally gone beyond this point since the book was originally published in 1979. Jennifer Scarce's book is indeed focused on the later and more Turkish areas of M.E. costuming, but it does cover earlier periods and areas about as well as anyone does. You will find many additional pictures in other sources (there's a book titled "Dress in the Arab World," I think, which is highly regarded) but her written material is hard to beat. Unfortunately she didn't have an editor to take control of those interminable British sentences. It's heavy going. Leslie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 16:06:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13353 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:06:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13019; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14376 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:19:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web1304.mail.yahoo.com (web1304.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.154]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA14360 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:19:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990825212835.11203.rocketmail@web1304.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.54.226.52] by web1304.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:28:35 PDT Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:28:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Megan Irvine Subject: Re: H-COST: Winter/Savoy Elizabethan & Middle Eastern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Megan Irvine --- Leslie Helms wrote: > > -Poster: Leslie Helms > > Elizabethan Costuming by Janet Winter & Carolyn > Savoy is out of print, or > sporadically in print, or some combination of those. > I have searches out > for it but no hits so far. ISBN is 0-9630220-0-8 > from Other Times > Publishing. There is supposed to be a Victorian > version also, and a > Medieval version was promised as "coming soon" in > the 1987 print of the > Elizabethan book that I have borrowed. Haven't seen > either of them yet. > If someone finds a source, do share. I saw several copies of the Elizabethan version at a couple of different vendors at Pennsic. One of the vendors also had the Victorian version, which I purchased. I asked this vendor about the Medieval version and he said that it is due to come out, but not out yet. === Megan Irvine __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 16:20:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13371 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:20:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15164; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:33:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA17525 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:32:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17507 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:32:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.47]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:31:53 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Winter/Savoy Elizabethan & Middle Eastern Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:26:34 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37cb5cd1.440144035@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <4.1.19990825132736.036ea7e0@mail.canfield.com> In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990825132736.036ea7e0@mail.canfield.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id PAA17511 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:00:42 -0700, the following was written in this electric book by Leslie Helms : >Elizabethan Costuming by Janet Winter & Carolyn Savoy is out of print, or >sporadically in print, or some combination of those. I have searches out >for it but no hits so far. ISBN is 0-9630220-0-8 from Other Times >Publishing. There is supposed to be a Victorian version also, and a >Medieval version was promised as "coming soon" in the 1987 print of the >Elizabethan book that I have borrowed. Haven't seen either of them yet. >If someone finds a source, do share Well, the Victorian book was primarily done for the Dickens Christmas Faire, and I have a copy. This printing's cover is blue, although I have no idea if subsequent/previous printings of this book have blue covers. I've had two copies of the elizabethan book, and they had different shades of brown covers. I call this the big brown renfaire book. I don't think they will actually be doing the Medieval book. I got all of them at Lacis in Berkeley. Both of the books (Vic and Eliz.) are available from Lacis, or are at least in the online catalog: http://www.lacis.com/catalog/catalog.htm margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 16:26:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13386 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:26:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16056; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA18525 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:36:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18510 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:36:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p23.directcon.net [206.170.184.122]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA26616 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:36:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 14:36:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908252136.OAA26616@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Winter/Savoy Elizabethan & Middle Eastern Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >I saw several copies of the Elizabethan version at a >couple of different vendors at Pennsic. One of the >vendors also had the Victorian version, which I >purchased. I asked this vendor about the Medieval >version and he said that it is due to come out, but >not out yet. They have been promising the Medieval version since at least 1985, when I bought my copy of the Ren book. I believe it's slated for publication aproximately the same time Hell gets a bit frosty. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 18:04:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13613 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:04:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01817; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:16:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10382 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:13:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10354 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:13:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from erin.excite.com ([198.3.99.254]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990825231231.OFBQ7470.gigi@erin.excite.com> for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:12:31 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: New World Iceman Message-Id: <935622749.5036.127@excite.com> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:12:29 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" Hello! Did anyone else catch the news that there has been another pre-historic human found frozen in the ice? This time, he was found in the glacial runoff in the northwestern tip of British Columbia. He apparently was wearing a cloak made of several small varment skins, and a straw hat. Seems like most of his hunting gear was nearby, as well. Now, there's some historic documentation! Kate ---- StitchWitch Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim. - Santayana, Life of Reason, 1905 ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 18:20:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13670 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:20:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03866; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:33:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14116 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:32:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14111 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:32:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31357 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:31:09 -0400 Message-ID: <37C47CC6.9E601F6@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:31:37 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume College References: <199908251731.KAA27602@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue ...and how one finds out when/where the Costume College is? For that matter, is there an annoucement mailing list for Kalamazoo? -- "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown-up" --C.S. Lewis _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 18:35:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13746 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:35:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05631; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:47:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16598 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:47:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA16578 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:47:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:46:57 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37C47CC6.9E601F6@thibault.org> References: <199908251731.KAA27602@zeus.directcon.net> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 16:47:06 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume College Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Cynthia Virtue > >...and how one finds out when/where the Costume College is? > >For that matter, is there an annoucement mailing list for Kalamazoo? > >-- >"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of >childishness and the desire to be very grown-up" --C.S. Lewis I can't help with Kalamazoo. Costume College is put on in Los Angeles, CA (actually Van Nuys, near L.A.) each summer. Usually it's three days of classes. Next year, it will be five days long, ending on July 4th. That's the bare-bones info. I'm sure someone from Los Angeles will be able to give more, detailed info. It's really fun and eye-opening. I took classes on making hats this year, a class on the House of Worth and a hands-on class making chain mail. There are tours available in L.A. related to clothing and costumes. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 19:02:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13796 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:02:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08407; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:14:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20923 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:13:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20914 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:13:28 -0600 (MDT) From: Nancygwyn@aol.com Received: from Nancygwyn@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6QYQa07549 (6397) for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:11:58 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: Costume College To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Nancygwyn@aol.com When and where (and all the other pertinent details) is Costume College? Inquiring minds want to know! Nancy Stengel aka Maddalena Salutati _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 19:09:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13809 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:09:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09201; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:22:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22020 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:20:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22011 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:20:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA16216 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:17:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004201beef58$d8fd6c00$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume College Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:20:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >>For that matter, is there an annoucement mailing list for Kalamazoo? No, but there is the Kzoo homepage at http://www.wmich.edu/medieval/congress/ The call for papers is up there now. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 19:19:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13834 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:19:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10354; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:32:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA23810 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:32:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA23804 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 15725 invoked from network); 26 Aug 1999 00:32:00 -0000 Received: from 207-229-173-136.d.enteract.com (HELO lynnx.enteract.com) (207.229.173.136) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 26 Aug 1999 00:32:00 -0000 Message-ID: <37C4AEF4.6BA8@enteract.com> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:05:24 -0700 From: lynnx X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: arabian dress book References: <199908260020.SAA22053@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lynnx > "Dress in the Arab World," I think, which is > highly regarded) You mean "Art of Arabian Dress"? (was going for around $50 US, now seems to have gone up. May still be in print, or recently enough OOP that you could find one.) If that's the one, it's great, but I think leans towards later that SCA period. Heather _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 19:35:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13849 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:35:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12377; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:48:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA26166 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:47:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26156 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 18:47:35 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6MJYa09417 (4117) for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:46:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:46:35 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Costume College To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com I'm still hoping that someone will come forward with some information on the Symposium in Kalamazoo. Ever since I saw the comments of the members of this list that went last May----I've been fascinated! As to Costumne College 2000---contact Darla Krueger, c/o Costumner's Guild West, PO Box 94538 Pasadena, Ca. 91100 or call Darla at 626-449-0665 or e-mail her at DevineDWK@aol.com Now, if someone will only share info on Kalamzoo with me--I'll be a happy camper! Cheers Albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 19:48:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13862 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:48:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14089; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:01:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA28022 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:00:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28013 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 19:00:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA20824 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <014d01beef5e$8ba408a0$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Costume College Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:01:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >Now, if someone will only share info on Kalamzoo with me--I'll be a happy >camper! I posted the URL for the Conference homepage in an earlier post. The Call for Papers is up, and from that you can get an idea of the very broad scope of the conference (usually around 1200 papers on all topics concerning the Middle Ages). The textiles sessions are only a small part (usually 4-5 sessions, 2-3 papers each session, usually some of them involving recreation of objects or technology) of that, but the papers have been of high quality and there seem to be more of them each year. If anyone has any specific Kzoo questions, feel free to e-mail me. I've been attending for nearly a decade, and can give you the rundown on what it's like, etc. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 20:51:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13990 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:51:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23648; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:04:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06181 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:03:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06162 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 20:03:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA00601 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:03:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA20248 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:03:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:03:25 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Source for Winter & Savoy "Elizabethan Costuming" In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990825132736.036ea7e0@mail.canfield.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed You can buy copies from Poison Pen Press (http://www.poisonpenpress.com/). Drea On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, Leslie Helms wrote: > > -Poster: Leslie Helms > > Elizabethan Costuming by Janet Winter & Carolyn Savoy is out of print, or > sporadically in print, or some combination of those. I have searches out > for it but no hits so far. ISBN is 0-9630220-0-8 from Other Times > Publishing. There is supposed to be a Victorian version also, and a > Medieval version was promised as "coming soon" in the 1987 print of the > Elizabethan book that I have borrowed. Haven't seen either of them yet. > If someone finds a source, do share. It's marginally correct, but that > would still constitute a drastic improvement in much SCA Elizabethan > costuming. (You wince, Miz Blackdane, but you know it's true!) I suspect, > or at least hope, that Ren Faire standards have generally gone beyond this > point since the book was originally published in 1979. > > Jennifer Scarce's book is indeed focused on the later and more Turkish > areas of M.E. costuming, but it does cover earlier periods and areas about > as well as anyone does. You will find many additional pictures in other > sources (there's a book titled "Dress in the Arab World," I think, which is > highly regarded) but her written material is hard to beat. Unfortunately > she didn't have an editor to take control of those interminable British > sentences. It's heavy going. > > Leslie > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 23:12:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14252 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:12:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08757; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:24:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA24775 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:23:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24770 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:23:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA11206 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 21:13:03 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA04563 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:20:36 -0500 Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:20:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Kalamazoo (was: Costume College) In-Reply-To: <014d01beef5e$8ba408a0$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Wed, 25 Aug 1999, Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > If anyone has any specific Kzoo questions, feel free to e-mail me. I've > been attending for nearly a decade, and can give you the rundown on what > it's like, etc. Me, too. I'm always happy to help costume researchers find their way around and hook up with like-minded folk. I was planning to post an update on my own group's year 2000 sessions after I got my own Call for Papers in the mail, but the paper copies are dreadfully late this year. They told me on July 30 that the mailings were going out "early next week" -- apparently not. That'll certainly make it tough for people to meet their September deadlines for paper proposals! (And the paper copies will contain an egregious error in the title of my sessions -- they skipped the part that says "Dress & Textiles," so if you don't already know who we are, you'd have no clue, sigh. At least I got it fixed on the website after I got the first misdirected email inquiry.) As to our plans: Gale Owen-Crocker and I, under the umbrella of DISTAFF (a costume & textile discussion group) are sponsoring two sessions as usual. As in past years, Gale's session is traditional academic-paper format, and mine is more hands-on with visual aids. :-) Our titles this year are "Dress & Textiles I: Sources, Images, Artifacts" for Gale's session, and "Dress & Textiles II: Making It" for mine. We've been working on putting together our year 2000 speakers for several years, so we're pretty full up already, but Gale may still have an open slot, I'm not sure. In general, though, we're always interested in inquiries, even if we're full for the upcoming year, because we think about themes for future sessions a couple of years out and plan accordingly. Also, if you think you'd like to present at a Kalamazoo some year, it's worth going one year first just as an attendee to get the lay of the land. The DISTAFF sessions focus on research about actual dress and textiles of the medieval period. This is "firmer" work than most of the K'zoo sessions, and puts us closer in the camp with the archaeology groups. There are, I think, two other dress-oriented sessions in the program this year, but both of them focus on lit-crit and art-symbolism angles, and not so much on the actual clothing/textiles of the time. Still worth going to, but costumers should not expect to get as much practical information from them. I'd have to look over the Call for Papers again to be sure of the titles. There are also usually a few stray dress/textile related papers scattered around in some of the other sessions, so you need to read your program book thoroughly or you'll miss them. I spend much of my time at the art sessions covering my periods of interest, just so I can see the pretty slides and maybe pick up a few tidbits of background. I spend the rest of my time blowing my year's discretionary budget in the book rooms. And DISTAFF hosts a reception at the conference to give the costume people a chance to schmooze. --Robin, still digging out from a cross-country house move; please note my new email address _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Aug 25 23:18:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14299 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:18:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09110; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:29:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25362 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:28:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.inil.com (inil.com [206.31.32.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25346 for ; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 22:28:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.176.240.94] by mail.inil.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 177-57935U7500L650S0V35) with ESMTP id com; Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:28:43 -0500 X-Sender: baddorf@pop3.inil.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199908250303_MC2-823E-6855@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 23:27:38 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Deb Baddorf Subject: Re: H-COST: Nipples & breast showing Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Deb Baddorf >-Poster: Melanie Wilson > >>> 'I am not so >>> much against the tavern wench look (although of course, there is so >>> much out there that is accurate and sexy) it is the fact that no self >>> respecting woman of any class in history until the 20th century would >>> have let her bosom hang out like that. Never. I have a book of French fashion plates (whose exact name I forget just now and I'm supposed to be going to bed) which has a few plates with exposed nipples. Not a whole lot, but a few. And I have wondered how many *real* people wore fashions like that. Or is it like today's haute coutoure ... which doesn't make it onto very many ordinary bodies (or pocketbooks). Deb Deb Baddorf http://www.inil.com/users/baddorf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 04:00:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12564 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 04:00:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23363; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 03:00:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA19509 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 02:58:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA19503 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 02:57:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JF7WL48P0G003UU3@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:01:24 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JF7WL1VM5O003KA3@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:01:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:56:38 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:56:37 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:56:33 +1100 Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:56:33 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-COST: Rolled hems...?? In-reply-to: <199908260020.SAA22053@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <250E34C7F1A@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 Hello all, I know instructions for doing smallrolled-hems on very fine fabrics have been posted before but I (foolishly) didn't keep them and now that I need to do some, I can't remember the techniques that were recommended... The fabric is very sheer (and frays if you *look* at it) gold coloured organza that is being used for the under-sleeve/puffs in Simpliclty Renaissance Wedding dress I'm making. The fabric was narrow enough that I could use the selvedge-edges forthe leeve seams and not have to finish them further, but I want to get the wrist ends hemmed and the drawstring casings sewn before I set the sleeves into the bodice. Thanks in advance. Any advise is greatly appreciated Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 09:08:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12956 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:08:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09337; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:19:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA11253 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:17:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11244 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:17:06 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6AITa06600 (4003) for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9d2fa374.24f6a5f1@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:15:13 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Kalamazoo (was: Costume College) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com Thanks Robin, for providing a little more description of the Conference.And you answered one of my primary questions--which was if I could go as just an attendee --just to get the 'lay of the land.' I think I'll look into that. Thank you , too, Susan--our posts must have crossed each other in virtual mail-land:) Cheers albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 09:23:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13028 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:23:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11475; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:36:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA15213 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:34:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA15206; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:34:31 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:34:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908261434.IAA15206@net.indra.com> From: kang77@airmail.net To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Winter/Savoy Elizabethan & Middle Eastern Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kang77@airmail.net Leslie Helms wrote: > > -Poster: Leslie Helms > > Elizabethan Costuming by Janet Winter & Carolyn Savoy is out of print, or > sporadically in print, or some combination of those. I have searches out > for it but no hits so far. ISBN is 0-9630220-0-8 from Other Times > Publishing. There is supposed to be a Victorian version also, and a > Medieval version was promised as "coming soon" in the 1987 print of the > Elizabethan book that I have borrowed. Haven't seen either of them yet. > If someone finds a source, do share. Hi there -- saw your post on H-cost and thought I'd let you know that I found my copy of Winter and Savoy's Victorian Costuming at lacis.com about a year ago. It's a lot smaller than Elizabethan Costuming (I'd say less than half an inch). Its cover states Volume I: 1840 - 1865; I have yet to see a volume II or the aforementioned Medieval version. It has a lot more typographical errors in it than Elizabethan Costuming (which drives me nuts -- one day I'm going to wig out and correct them all with a red pen! :)), and the drawings are a little more rough? primitive? not as well done as the illustrations in Elizabethan Costuming. It's basically for people like me who know nothing about Victorian Costuming and need a place to get started, very much the way Elizabethan Costuming is. The ISBN is 0-9630220-1-6, cover price $10.00. Prolly more information than you wanted to know, eh? *g* Take care, Frost _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 09:50:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13138 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:50:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15103; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:03:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21758 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:01:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21720 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:00:58 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6WNOa02406 (4552) for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:00:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2a3dd117.24f6b07a@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:00:10 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: Winter and Savoy Victorian To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com After I bought the Elizabethan one, I ordered the Victorian one site-unseen for a project I had at the time. I did not find it to be anywhere near the standards of the Elizabethan one, if that tells you anything . . . even then (about 10 years ago) there was a lot better information available to the average (or below average!) sewer. I donated it to my library used book sale the same year I got it. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 09:58:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13153 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:58:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15990; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:10:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23744 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:09:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23731 for h-costume; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:09:44 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:09:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear Message-Id: <199908261509.JAA23731@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: H-COST: looking for cheap cotton solids Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Lear Hi all - Since my favorite fabric merchant wasn't at Pennsic, I'm now looking for a source of very cheap 100% cotton in solid basic colors like white, red, green, yellow, blue, etc. I'm used to paying $1-2/yd, but that may not be possible. Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated! ..eliz _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 10:47:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13226 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:47:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22548; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:00:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06100 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:59:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web103.yahoomail.com (web103.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA06092 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:59:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990826155949.20592.rocketmail@web103.yahoomail.com> Received: from [63.21.255.76] by web103.yahoomail.com; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:59:49 PDT Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 08:59:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Kristen Morgaine Sieber Subject: H-COST: OT - black dye To: list SCA-Arts , list SCA-Garb , Costume Historic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kristen Morgaine Sieber I have a new pair of black knit pants and a new black t-shirt that both got bleach spots on them. I tried Rit dye (I really knew that wouldn't work) and an opaque dye used for tie-dye (in desperation I even tried black hair dye--have you ever gotten hair dye on clothes accidentally?). The spots are still there! Any suggestions? Thank you. === Morgaine of Glastonbury MKA Kristen Morgaine Sieber Barony of Aquaterra MoAS Kingdom of An Tir lady_gawain@yahoo.com What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 10:47:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13230 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:47:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22545; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:00:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05998 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:59:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05987 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:59:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA20309 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:07:17 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA09054 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:14:51 -0500 Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:14:51 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Kalamazoo (was: Costume College) In-Reply-To: <9d2fa374.24f6a5f1@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Thu, 26 Aug 1999 AlbraKat@aol.com wrote: > Thanks Robin, for providing a little more description of the Conference.And > you answered one of my primary questions--which was if I could go as just an > attendee --just to get the 'lay of the land.' I think I'll look into that. I would suggest that you get your address to the Congress office ASAP, so you are sure to be on the mailing list for the registration packet. It goes out in February or March. I believe you can email the Congress through the webpage to get on the mailing list. The conference booklets that come in that packet are prize property -- you only get mailed one, and if you lose yours, you have to pay (I think $10) to get another. It's half an inch thick and contains the entire conference schedule, so that's understandable. At least you'll be able to look over the 1,200 or so paper titles before you decide whether you want to go! Be forewarned that the conference is EXPENSIVE -- about $100 for registation, but with substantial discounts for students (if you can show a current student ID). Housing, though, is cheap, if you stay in the dorms. Definitely low-frills -- most of us know what dorm rooms are like, right? At least there's a bathroom for every two rooms, and you can request a single or a double (you must name your roommate -- they no longer match up strangers). If you don't like dorm housing, there are various guest houses and hotels off-campus. But the dorms put you right on campus in the thick of things. There are three large dorms; the lobbies/common areas in each are turned over to conference goings-on, including the main conference registration desk, reception rooms, the cafeteria (you may buy meal tickets in advance for any meal or meals of your choice -- I usually just eat out and keep snacks in my room); and (huzzah) the book rooms. Some of the sessions are also in the dorm buildings, but most now are in three or four other buildings that are a short (10-minute) walk away. Be prepared to do a LOT of walking; even the three dorms are separated by hills and steep stairs. If you are handicapped or need to take it easy, tell them so when you register, and they'll give you one of the more convenient rooms. (Given the number of elderly professors using canes, this is important.) You can also buy a parking pass for about $10 that gives you use of the dorm lots and the lots that serve the other buildings used for sessions -- I am lazy and always bring my car :-) A word to the wise: This is very definitely a professional academic conference. While many academics welcome interest from "outsiders," it's an unfortunate fact that some of them have had bad experiences with members of re-enactment groups. And some of them are simply interested in using their limited conference time to make connections with other academics, so they will give less attention to people they perceive as spectators. So if you want to get the most benefit from your interactions with people there, it's usually wise to keep any affiliations that might be perceived as "hobbyist" to yourself when among strangers or in a classroom context. The best way to interact with serious students and scholars is to present yourself as a serious student/scholar. No one expects you to Know Everything, but they do expect you to play by the accepted standards of academic conferences. That means mundane names and appropriate dress. Garb is NOT appropriate (unless you're performing). I'm not speaking only of SCA people or re-enactors here; the same applies to college students, local residents who attend for the educational experience, etc. I've noticed that a certain number of students, for instance, wear jeans and hang out with each other -- and that's fine if they're there mostly for fun, and those are the connections they want to make. Others dress up a bit more and make different connections. What you choose to do should depend on what you want to get out of the conference. It also helps to understand that although we as costumers are serious researchers, our language and standards differ from the norms within academe, where certain approaches to scholarship are considered mainstream and others more "experimental." In other words, although we may understand that making costumes or doing living history or re-enactment are legitimate modes of research and highly educational experiences, we can't expect others to recognize these as academic credentials by definition. For my part, I'm quite aware that I'm working in a field that is not considered a traditional academic field, and I do not have an academic affiliation. On the other hand, I do run a sponsoring organization and I co-sponsor a track of sessions, so I need to be taken seriously, and the conference is one of my few opportunities to make valuable connections with scholars I won't run into through costuming circles. So, I have worked to increase my credibility by dressing as a professor (suits or skirts) rather than as a student (jeans). It's amusing to discover that often it's the most well-established scholars who are most open to interacting with "outsiders" who have something interesting or stimulating to ask or discuss. I think the people who are newer or less secure in academia see the conference more as a place to network and make important connections -- meaning people who can help them get their next university post or get a paper published. Those people don't talk to me all that much, because as a non-affiliated scholar, I'm not going to do them much good ;-) But scholars who are genuinely interested in things like costume as a means of dating art, experimental archaeology as a research approach, textile studies as a window on women's history, or dress symbolism as a tool for literary criticism are, more and more, discovering that those of us in the costume track have something to offer to the traditional academics. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 11:13:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13263 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:13:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25845; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:26:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12541 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:25:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1204.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.140]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA12521 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:25:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990826162620.21953.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.183.151.69] by web1204.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:26:20 PDT Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:26:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Dawn Davidson Subject: Re: H-COST: looking for cheap cotton solids To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Davidson I can get 100% cotton broadcloth in lots of colors for around $1.80 a yard at Wal-Mart. I've made many costume pieces out of it. Lady Zy LadyZy@yahoo.com --- Elizabeth Lear wrote: > > -Poster: Elizabeth Lear > > > Hi all - > > Since my favorite fabric merchant wasn't at Pennsic, > I'm now looking > for a source of very cheap 100% cotton in solid > basic colors like > white, red, green, yellow, blue, etc. I'm used to > paying $1-2/yd, but > that may not be possible. Any help you can give me > would be greatly > appreciated! > > ..eliz > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 11:46:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13324 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:46:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00606; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:59:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20567 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:58:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20553 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:58:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990826165807.MDHY1639.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:58:07 -0700 Message-ID: <37C5721F.9C72DBDC@home.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:58:07 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: OT - black dye References: <19990826155949.20592.rocketmail@web103.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Kristen Morgaine Sieber wrote: > > I have a new pair of black knit pants and a new black > t-shirt that both got bleach spots on them. I tried > Rit dye (I really knew that wouldn't work) and an > opaque dye used for tie-dye (in desperation I even > tried black hair dye--have you ever gotten hair dye on > clothes accidentally?). The spots are still there! > Any suggestions? Thank you. I use a thick black Sharpie permanent marker. Thus far, it's worked well for me. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 11:46:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13328 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:46:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00620; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:59:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20649 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:58:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20635 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:58:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p5.directcon.net [206.170.184.104]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11271 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 09:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908261657.JAA11271@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan bodices and skirts Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson A few weeks ago I stated my firm opinion that 16th century upper class bodices and overskirts always matched. Well, guess what...on page 132 of QE'S Wardrobe, there's a woodcut of a venetian noblewoman, wearing a patterned bodice and a solid color overskirt, which is hiked up to show an underskirt of the same pattern as the bodice. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 11:59:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13343 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:59:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02697; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:11:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23564 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:10:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net (svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23541 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:10:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem23.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.151] helo=herimats) by svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 11K32G-0005YJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:10:01 +0100 Message-ID: <001e01beefe5$d52a21d0$97065cc3@herimats> From: "Editors.Heritage Matters" To: References: <19990826155949.20592.rocketmail@web103.yahoomail.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: OT - black dye Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:34:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Editors.Heritage Matters" When all else fails, reach for a big felt tip pen; My mother has used this method on carpets as well as clothes for year; Dave +++++ L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters > > -Poster: Kristen Morgaine Sieber > > I have a new pair of black knit pants and a new black > t-shirt that both got bleach spots on them. I tried > Rit dye (I really knew that wouldn't work) and an > opaque dye used for tie-dye (in desperation I even > tried black hair dye--have you ever gotten hair dye on > clothes accidentally?). The spots are still there! > Any suggestions? Thank you. > > === > Morgaine of Glastonbury > MKA Kristen Morgaine Sieber > Barony of Aquaterra MoAS > Kingdom of An Tir > lady_gawain@yahoo.com > > What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about? > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 12:08:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13365 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:08:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04202; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:21:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA26251 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:20:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26242 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:20:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p5.directcon.net [206.170.184.104]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA14123 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 10:19:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908261719.KAA14123@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST:Necklines below bust Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I'm making a 16th century Flemish outfit, as described in Drea's excellent article at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/lowerclass/flemish-dress.html As you'll see from reading it, the Flemish gown was often cut well below the nipple line, with a very wide laced opening. It was worn over a smock and a low necked underdress called a kirtle. I made my mockup for the bodice last night and tried it out. I'm much larger than the women commonly depicted in Flemish paintings, size 24-26, with a bust that needs serious support. I cut the neckline just to the bottom of the nipple, or rather, where I hoped it would be once it was lifted and supported. Drea concludes that these bodices were not always boned. I was dubious about the effectiveness of an unboned bodice, so I put a spiral bone on each side of the lacing. This turned out to be unecesary, and I removed them. Unlike an underbust Ren bodice with a peasant blouse, this style looks good. What makes the difference is the kirtle layer over the breasts, which not only keeps the nipples from showing, but, when pulled and arranged smoothly, acts almost like a bra cup arangement, containing and stabilizing the breasts while the lifts them. It's still a low neck, an inch above the nipples, but that firm fabric makes all the difference. (Being a decent woman, I'll be covering my bosom witha semisheer linen partlet.) It may be that the "tits on a plate" bodice derived from this style. If we could just get women to wear kirtles under them, they could look good....but I'm afraid that the "wench" look has become so stylized that most people would think the correct look is wrong. It should be interesting to wear this rig to Ren Faire and hear the comments. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 12:10:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13371 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:10:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04339; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:22:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA26480 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:21:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26454 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:21:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xohgoynt ([212.250.68.25]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990826171712.BEEH2876.mta3-svc@xohgoynt> for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:17:12 +0100 Message-ID: <00ce01beefe6$32de5260$1944fad4@xohgoynt> From: "emma smith" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Costume College Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:04:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "emma smith" with you on that one !! bella ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, August 26, 1999 1:11 AM Subject: H-COST: Re: Costume College > > -Poster: Nancygwyn@aol.com > > When and where (and all the other pertinent details) is Costume College? > Inquiring minds want to know! > > Nancy Stengel > aka Maddalena Salutati > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 12:10:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13375 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:10:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04331; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:22:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA26451 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:21:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26440 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:21:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xohgoynt ([212.250.68.25]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990826171706.BEDH2876.mta3-svc@xohgoynt> for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:17:06 +0100 Message-ID: <00c901beefe6$2f3b8920$1944fad4@xohgoynt> From: "emma smith" To: References: <19990826155949.20592.rocketmail@web103.yahoomail.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: OT - black dye Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:04:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "emma smith" have you tried balck permanent marker pen? worked for me bella ----- Original Message ----- From: Kristen Morgaine Sieber To: list SCA-Arts ; list SCA-Garb ; Costume Historic Sent: Thursday, August 26, 1999 4:59 PM Subject: H-COST: OT - black dye > > -Poster: Kristen Morgaine Sieber > > I have a new pair of black knit pants and a new black > t-shirt that both got bleach spots on them. I tried > Rit dye (I really knew that wouldn't work) and an > opaque dye used for tie-dye (in desperation I even > tried black hair dye--have you ever gotten hair dye on > clothes accidentally?). The spots are still there! > Any suggestions? Thank you. > > === > Morgaine of Glastonbury > MKA Kristen Morgaine Sieber > Barony of Aquaterra MoAS > Kingdom of An Tir > lady_gawain@yahoo.com > > What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about? > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 12:40:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13439 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:40:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09666; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:53:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA04478 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:52:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04466 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:52:18 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6NTOa20497 (3893) for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:51:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2dc1c293.24f6d8aa@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:51:38 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: looking for cheap cotton solids To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Occasionally, Hancock Fabrics will get in specials for around $2/yd, and the sportswear table sometimes has 100% cottons for around $3/yd (60" wide, though.) Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 13:58:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13506 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:58:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21755; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:10:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21553 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:09:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21543 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:09:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA08061 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA01572 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:09:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:09:32 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust In-Reply-To: <199908261719.KAA14123@zeus.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Margo, Thanks for the feedback on flemish dress! You're the first other person I've known whose made a Flemish outfit, and it's good to get more points of view on the subject. Margo, what pattern did you use for your kirtle? I've tried three types of kirtle shapes, so far. The first was more of a "petticoat bodies": a flat bodice with a skirt pleated to the waistline. This was very close-fitting, and very supportive. (I'm a DD, and need all I can get!) Plus the bulk of the linen pleated at the waistline helped the skirts stand out. The second was an "a-line" kirtle, similar in shape to the one depicted in Arnold's Patterns of fashion, but close-fitted to the waist. This was also quite close-fitting and supportive, but ended up giving my bust more of a rounded shape; perhaps because of the seams going down the front sides. It was more comfortable around the waist area because of the flared fit, but didn't add bulk to the back of the skirts like the first kirtle. I also tried a very simple "smock-shaped" kirtle, basically two rectangles with gores at the sides. I made it tight enough so that I had to wiggle into it, but even so this didn't produce as much support in the bust area. The close-fitted A-line kirtle and the "petticoat bodies" type of kirtle are both documentable, to a point, but it's unknown which was worn under a flemish gown. Queen Elizabeth's wardrobe accounts do mention "gathered kirtles", which could be interpreted to mean kirtles with a close fitting bodice and gathered skirt, and Arnold believes that some kirtles were close-fitted to the waist and flared out from there. And then there's Alcega's pattern layouts of kirtles to study as well... Regardless of the type of kirtle worn under the gown, they do provide a lot of support. In fact, if you wear a petticoat bodies under a kirtle as well, you can get an almost corseted look (if you're large-busted) or be flat as a board (if you're small-chested). And Margo, how did you do your lacing eyes? I used the hooks and eyes from Greenburg & Hammer with the flat-topped eyes, and sewed them to the inside of the gown so that, when the gown's laced, you can't see them. I also originally made the skirt of the gown with cartridge-pleats, but recently discovered that I can exactly duplicate the look of the skirts in the portraits, bulk, fullness and all, by using rolled pleats instead. Did you line your gown bodice & kirtle, or use one layer? Once I've done some more fiddling around with the Flemish gown stuff, I'll post something up on a web page with patterns & construction information. Thanks, Drea On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, Margo Anderson wrote: > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > I'm making a 16th century Flemish outfit, as described in Drea's excellent > article at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/lowerclass/flemish-dress.html > > As you'll see from reading it, the Flemish gown was often cut well below the > nipple line, with a very wide laced opening. It was worn over a smock and a > low necked underdress called a kirtle. > > I made my mockup for the bodice last night and tried it out. I'm much larger > than the women commonly depicted in Flemish paintings, size 24-26, with a > bust that needs serious support. I cut the neckline just to the bottom of > the nipple, or rather, where I hoped it would be once it was lifted and > supported. > > Drea concludes that these bodices were not always boned. I was dubious > about the effectiveness of an unboned bodice, so I put a spiral bone on each > side of the lacing. This turned out to be unecesary, and I removed them. > > Unlike an underbust Ren bodice with a peasant blouse, this style looks > good. What makes the difference is the kirtle layer over the breasts, which > not only keeps the nipples from showing, but, when pulled and arranged > smoothly, acts almost like a bra cup arangement, containing and stabilizing > the breasts while the lifts them. It's still a low neck, an inch above the > nipples, but that firm fabric makes all the difference. (Being a decent > woman, I'll be covering my bosom witha semisheer linen partlet.) > > It may be that the "tits on a plate" bodice derived from this style. If we > could just get women to wear kirtles under them, they could look good....but > I'm afraid that the "wench" look has become so stylized that most people > would think the correct look is wrong. > > It should be interesting to wear this rig to Ren Faire and hear the comments. > > Margo Anderson > "One Tough Costumer" > http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 14:35:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13559 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:35:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26951; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:48:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00408 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:47:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mb04.swip.net (mb04.swip.net [193.12.122.208]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00400 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:47:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nina (d212-151-173-225.swipnet.se [212.151.173.225]) by mb04.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA12790 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:47:26 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990826214826.009824f0@olga.swip.net> X-Sender: mo25111@olga.swip.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:48:26 +0200 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Nina Marcks v W Subject: Re: H-COST: Winter/Savoy Elizabethan & Middle Eastern In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990825132736.036ea7e0@mail.canfield.com> References: <199908250902.DAA13095@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Nina Marcks v W Hi, I have recently bought three copies of the Elizabethan book from Harper House. E-mail: harperhouse@lonago.com website: www.lonago.com The book is $15. It is a very nice book. Nina in Sweden At 14:00 1999-08-25 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Leslie Helms > >Elizabethan Costuming by Janet Winter & Carolyn Savoy is out of print, or >sporadically in print, or some combination of those. I have searches out >for it but no hits so far. ISBN is 0-9630220-0-8 from Other Times >Publishing. There is supposed to be a Victorian version also, and a >Medieval version was promised as "coming soon" in the 1987 print of the >Elizabethan book that I have borrowed. Haven't seen either of them yet. >If someone finds a source, do share. It's marginally correct, but that >would still constitute a drastic improvement in much SCA Elizabethan >costuming. (You wince, Miz Blackdane, but you know it's true!) I suspect, >or at least hope, that Ren Faire standards have generally gone beyond this >point since the book was originally published in 1979. > >Jennifer Scarce's book is indeed focused on the later and more Turkish >areas of M.E. costuming, but it does cover earlier periods and areas about >as well as anyone does. You will find many additional pictures in other >sources (there's a book titled "Dress in the Arab World," I think, which is >highly regarded) but her written material is hard to beat. Unfortunately >she didn't have an editor to take control of those interminable British >sentences. It's heavy going. > >Leslie > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > #################################### Nina Marcks v W Sweden e-mail:nina.marcks@swipnet.se _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 14:41:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13569 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:41:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27769; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:54:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01882 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:53:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mb04.swip.net (mb04.swip.net [193.12.122.208]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01734 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:53:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nina (d212-151-173-225.swipnet.se [212.151.173.225]) by mb04.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA17838 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:53:17 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990826215518.0098c3a0@olga.swip.net> X-Sender: mo25111@olga.swip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:55:18 +0200 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Nina Marcks v W Subject: Re: H-COST: Winter/Savoy Elizabethan & Middle Eastern In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990826214826.009824f0@olga.swip.net> References: <4.1.19990825132736.036ea7e0@mail.canfield.com> <199908250902.DAA13095@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA01865 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Nina Marcks v W Sorry wrong e-mail for Harper House. The right one is harperhouse@longago.com and the website is at www.longago.com Nina (who is very tired as it is quite late here) At 21:48 1999-08-26 +0200, you wrote: > >-Poster: Nina Marcks v W > >Hi, > > >I have recently bought three copies of the Elizabethan book from Harper House. >E-mail: harperhouse@lonago.com >website: www.lonago.com > >The book is $15. It is a very nice book. > >Nina in Sweden > _____________________________________________________ Nina Marcks v W Höganäsgatan 1 B S-753 30 Uppsala tel +46-(0)18 - 10 12 86 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 14:44:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13573 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:44:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28185; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:57:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02450 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:56:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02437 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:56:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p41.directcon.net [206.170.184.90]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA01786 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 12:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908261955.MAA01786@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >Margo, what pattern did you use for your kirtle? None of the ones you describe! (although I probably should) It's just a simple A-line, roughly traced from a mundane jumper dress. It's basically a big bag with armholes and a scooped square neck. I just pulled the excess material to the back, and let the bodice hold it in place. This one is a mock-up, I haven't decided on a color for the real one yet. > > >And Margo, how did you do your lacing eyes? Well, this was a mock up, so I haven't put lacing eyes in yet. I just stitched a set of fitting strips, canvas strips with grommets set in them, to the front edges. I have some metal roman drapery rings that I'm going to try using, but I'm not sure they'll be strong enough. > >I also originally made the skirt of the gown with cartridge-pleats, but >recently discovered that I can exactly duplicate the look of the skirts >in the portraits, bulk, fullness and all, by using rolled pleats instead. I'm not familiar with the term "rolled pleats". Could you describe? > >Did you line your gown bodice & kirtle, or use one layer? I'm going to flat line the bodice with heavy cotton. The skirt will be bagged, lined with a lighter cotton. I wanted a lining because I love the contrast when the skirt is pulled up. I'm not sure yet if I want the cap sleeves on the gown or not. The colors are rust for the gown, with a sage green lining, and I'm thinking of a medium or dark blue for the kirtle. White partlet, smock, hood, and apron, and a pair of madder red sleeves. Please do put instructions and patterns on the Web! Maybe someday there will be accurate peasants...or am I just dreaming? Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 15:24:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13629 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:24:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04082; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:36:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA11934 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:35:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from email.boisestate.edu (email.boisestate.edu [132.178.16.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11916 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:35:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cobfac.boisestate.edu (cobfac.boisestate.edu [132.178.51.3]) by email.boisestate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16734 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:37:15 -0600 Message-Id: <199908262037.OAA16734@email.boisestate.edu> Received: from COBFAC/SpoolDir by cobfac.boisestate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 26 Aug 99 14:35:43 -0700 Received: from SpoolDir by COBFAC (Mercury 1.44); 26 Aug 99 14:35:33 -0700 From: "Linda Yordy" Organization: College of Business & Economics To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:35:33 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust Priority: normal References: <199908261719.KAA14123@zeus.directcon.net> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Linda Yordy" > I can exactly duplicate the look of the skirts > in the portraits, bulk, fullness and all, by using rolled pleats instead. Drea: I've heard of knife, box, and cartridge . . . but haven't run across rolled pleats. Can you describe? Thanks! Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 15:24:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13633 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:24:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04317; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:38:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12254 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:37:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12246 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:37:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA12583 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA07832 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:37:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:37:30 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust In-Reply-To: <199908261955.MAA01786@zeus.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed > > I'm not familiar with the term "rolled pleats". Could you describe? You take a big pinch of fabric,fold it two to three times until you're back to the original skirt fabric, and then lay it flat. Sort of like so: _________________ __________ | | _______| | | |_________| |______________________ (Hope that was OK Ascii art...it's kind of hard to explain.) You can do more folds if you want; the above is pretty much a minimum. Then you stitch the top & bottom edge of the pleats to the waistband, a la cartridge pleats. When you do it with wool, it makes lovely tubular pleats all the way down, especially if you cut the skirt with the warp going up & down. With my flemish gown skirt (lined with linen), the pleats sort of randomize around knee-length. It takes more fabric than any other kind of pleating I know, but the result is worth it. If I ever have time, I'm going to try setting rolled pleats with the wooden clamp-like things shown in that woodcut of a renaissance German tailor's studio; arrange the pleats at the top, middle and bottom of the skirt so they're perfectly even, and then clamp the pleats flat with two pieces of wood, or something similar, at the middle and bottom of the skirt, and then hang it up. I'm willing to bet that if you do that with damp wool, the rolled pleats would be even more regular. > > The colors are rust for the gown, with a sage green lining, and I'm thinking > of a medium or dark blue for the kirtle. White partlet, smock, hood, and > apron, and a pair of madder red sleeves. Rust, pink, blue & green! Sounds beautiful! These flemish outfits are some of the most colorful ones I've seen, especially for lower class. I did my first gown in a heavy, camel-colored wool, with the skirt lined in chocolate-brown linen and the bodice in natural-colored linen. The one kirtle I wear under it is sea-green linen with bands of red linen around the bottom of the skirt (I use a red lace for the gown with this one) and a bright red kirtle (I use a white lace for the gown with this one.) And then there's the white shift & caul, and either a white linen partlet or a black woolen partlet or both depending on the weather. I also made sleeves of dark green wool. Sometimes I wear both kirtles, and hitch up the outer kirtle skirt as well as the gown skirt. It's pretty fetching when it's all together! Next weekend at the New Boston Faire I'm going to buy one of those wide-brimmed, small-crowned 18th century straw hats that look just like the ones 16th century Flemish marketwomen wear, and I'll be all set. I'm almost done with a later 1570s flemish partlet--the one with the small ruff sewn into the top edge of the neckband. I'll let you know how that goes. Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 15:39:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13654 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:39:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06011; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:50:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA15164 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:49:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15155 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:49:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p41.directcon.net [206.170.184.90]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA08120 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:48:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 13:48:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908262048.NAA08120@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 04:37 PM 08/26/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: aleed > >> >> I'm not familiar with the term "rolled pleats". Could you describe? > >You take a big pinch of fabric,fold it two to three times until you're >back to the original skirt fabric, and then lay it flat. Aha! Stacked pleats! Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 16:21:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13744 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:21:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11895; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:34:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25726 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:33:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25708 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:33:13 -0600 (MDT) From: DzMzLzy@aol.com Received: from DzMzLzy@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6MFBa06249 (4158) for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:32:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:32:11 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume College To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DzMzLzy@aol.com Costume College will have a web site at both WWW.CostumeCollege.com and WWW.CostumeCollege.org within 30 days. Until then information on it can be found on the International Costumers Guild site at WWW.Costume.org. Anyone interested in teaching classes can send info to me as I am in working on the technical programing. We have five days of classes to fill, so please drop me a line! Thanks Liz Gerds _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 17:00:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13846 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:00:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17426; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:13:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA04624 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:12:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04616 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA18007 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:10:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003401bef010$39b10cc0$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Kalamazoo (was: Costume College) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:13:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! Robin said, >I was planning to post an update on my own group's year 2000 sessions >after I got my own Call for Papers in the mail, but the paper copies are >dreadfully late this year. They told me on July 30 that the mailings were >going out "early next week" -- apparently not. That'll certainly make it >tough for people to meet their September deadlines for paper proposals! For what it's worth, my CFP showed up today. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 17:10:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13860 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:10:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18564; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:23:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA06658 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:22:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (tor-smtp1.netcom.ca [207.181.101.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06653 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:22:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (trt-on5-89.netcom.ca [207.181.82.217]) by tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id SAA00416 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:21:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <011b01bef011$367fad80$d952b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: References: <000301beeccd$0a6cb5e0$820bfdd0@sharp-9070-><000301beeccd$0a6cb5e0$820bfdd0@sharp-9070-> <3.0.1.32.19990824194420.00a137e0@mail.interlog.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Syke's Sutlering - help Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:20:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" > Can anyone please help me track down contact info for Syke's Sutlering? > > Thanks, > Danielle I have the following info on file... Syke's Sutlering Justinian (Syke) of Rakovec George R. Paczoct Box 363 Elton, PA 15034 (814) 266-3803 Hopefully this hasn't changed! Eve of Eoforwic _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 17:14:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13864 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:14:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18954; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:26:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07450 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:25:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07422 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 16:25:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.185] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11K7xW-0003sp-00; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:25:26 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 15:24:34 -0700 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: Request Reliable Documentation for Kilts in the Medieval Period Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" This discussion comes up periodically in most SCA-oriented lists. Once again, the gauntlet has been thrown. Does anyone here have good documentation for kilts 500AD-1550AD ca.? Thank you. -- Carol >From: "Dan Fenwick" >To: >Subject: Re: [SCA-West]period garments and such >Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 14:21:11 -0700 >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 >Reply-To: sca-west@rogues.net > >> > 1) The complaining individuals are not aware that the kilts are far >> > out of period. >> >> Completely possible. However, there are kilts that are known in period, >> so it's also difficult unless you have explicitly studied this form of >> garb to know the difference. You can't say the same about Cavalier garb. > >Actually, I'd love to see documentation for a kilt in period. So far no one >I have asked has been able to actually provide more than "So and so told me >it was." The best I found was mid 17th century. > >Dan > >---------------------------- >This is the SCA-West mailing list. To unsubscribe, send email to request-sca-west@rogues.net with 'unsubscribe' in the body. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 18:30:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13983 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:30:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28624; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:43:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA22659 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:41:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22632 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:41:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA19541 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:11:48 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA02889; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:19:49 +0930 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:19:41 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Thu, 26 Aug 1999, aleed wrote: > > Thanks for the feedback on flemish dress! You're the first other person > I've known whose made a Flemish outfit, and it's good to get more points > of view on the subject. > Not the only one! I made some bits and pieces earlier this year, and will soon (hopefully) get around to making some more. > Margo, what pattern did you use for your kirtle? > I've tried three types of kirtle shapes, so far. The first was more of a > "petticoat bodies": a flat bodice with a skirt pleated to the waistline. > This was very close-fitting, and very supportive. (I'm a DD, and need all > I can get!) Plus the bulk of the linen pleated at the waistline helped > the skirts stand out. This is the way I made my kirtle. I made it from faded blue-green linen and lined the bodice with the same. I made the opening at the front, which kind of jars a bit, as you can see it between the laces of the bodice, which you don't seem to in the piccies, but I can put it on by myself. > > > Regardless of the type of kirtle worn under the gown, they do provide a > lot of support. In fact, if you wear a petticoat bodies under a kirtle as > well, you can get an almost corseted look (if you're large-busted) or be > flat as a board (if you're small-chested). Agreed. I don't get a whole lot of lift from my kirtle and bodice, but it's very comfortable, and I don't move around much. I could probably have fit them better, but then I've learned a lot about fitting one-piece fronts since then. > > And Margo, how did you do your lacing eyes? I used the hooks and eyes > from Greenburg & Hammer with the flat-topped eyes, and sewed them to the > inside of the gown so that, when the gown's laced, you can't see them. I used ordinary hook-and-eye eyes, sewed about a centimetre in from the bodice edge. > I made a bodice and skirt rather than gown because I only had enough wool for a bodice (wool is very dear here). The bodice is black wool lined with black linen and the skirt is red linen. I'm currently working on making a jacket (I have some light brown wool and rose linen to line it with), a pair of sleeves (some purple wool - probably not a good colour choice but it was left over from something else, and as I was saying about wool...) and two partlets (one of cream linen, the other of black wool lined with white linen). Oh, and a cap of some kind for which I also have some cream linen. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 19:14:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14049 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:14:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04438; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:28:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00212 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:27:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00203 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:27:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p43.directcon.net [206.170.184.92]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA04120 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 17:26:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908270026.RAA04120@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Rare costume book on Ebay Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I'm auctioning a copy of "Masquerade And Carnival", published in 1900 by Butterick, on Ebay. This book is particularly enjoyable for those of you who like seeing how historical costume can be colored by the era in which it was produced. Check it out at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=153400042 and help me get my sewing machine fixed! Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 19:26:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14055 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 19:26:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06796; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:38:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA02054 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:37:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02049 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 18:37:52 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6IEIa01989 (3996) for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:37:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <86e9d093.24f737b1@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 20:37:05 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Kalamazoo (was: Costume College) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com Thanks, again robin for the 'tips' and advice. Sincerely , albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 22:35:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14324 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:35:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03487; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:48:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28409 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:47:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28403 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:47:12 -0600 (MDT) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6SRSa07454 (3964) for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:46:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7c0ba2e0.24f76411@aol.com> Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:46:25 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST:Pleats To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 8/26/99 3:50:03 PM Central Daylight Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << Aha! Stacked pleats! >> I just got a magazine and it has a neat dress in it but I can't tell how it is done. It discribes the pleats as "carwash". I have never heard that term. Has anyone else? How would you make them and what other name would they go by. Thanks, Kelly Albrecht m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Aug 26 23:00:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14336 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:00:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05689; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:13:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01852 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:12:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01844 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:12:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p30.directcon.net [206.170.184.79]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA01409 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 21:12:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908270412.VAA01409@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST:Pleats Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >I just got a magazine and it has a neat dress in it but I can't tell how it >is done. It discribes the pleats as "carwash". I have never heard that >term. Has anyone else? All I can think of is that a few years ago, there was a fad for what were called "carwash skirts", meaning, the skirt was split into narrow panels, or wide fringe, depending on your point of view. Like the hangy-down things in a carwash. Can't imagine what carwash pleats are, though. Now you've got me curious. What magazine? Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 00:04:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14457 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 00:04:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11361; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08640 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:15:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA08621 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:15:35 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:15:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 24585 invoked from network); 27 Aug 1999 05:17:23 -0000 Received: from 199.64.3-9.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.199) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 27 Aug 1999 05:17:23 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990826221656.3b77830c@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: H-COST: Venetian lady, was Re: Elizabethan bodices and skirts Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 09:57 AM 8/26/99 -0700, Margo Anderson wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >A few weeks ago I stated my firm opinion that 16th century upper class >bodices and overskirts always matched. > >Well, guess what...on page 132 of QE'S Wardrobe, there's a woodcut of a >venetian noblewoman, wearing a patterned bodice and a solid color overskirt, >which is hiked up to show an underskirt of the same pattern as the bodice. But Venetians have always been contrary . In the photocopy that I have, it's hard to tell if the front of the bodice is a placket or not. Does the fabric pattern seem to continue around the body? Has anyone ever tried that wired veil? Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 00:04:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14458 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 00:04:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11358; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:17:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08642 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:15:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA08622 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:15:35 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:15:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 24585 invoked from network); 27 Aug 1999 05:17:23 -0000 Received: from 199.64.3-9.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.199) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 27 Aug 1999 05:17:23 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990826221656.3b77830c@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: H-COST: Venetian lady, was Re: Elizabethan bodices and skirts Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 09:57 AM 8/26/99 -0700, Margo Anderson wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >A few weeks ago I stated my firm opinion that 16th century upper class >bodices and overskirts always matched. > >Well, guess what...on page 132 of QE'S Wardrobe, there's a woodcut of a >venetian noblewoman, wearing a patterned bodice and a solid color overskirt, >which is hiked up to show an underskirt of the same pattern as the bodice. But Venetians have always been contrary . In the photocopy that I have, it's hard to tell if the front of the bodice is a placket or not. Does the fabric pattern seem to continue around the body? Has anyone ever tried that wired veil? Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 00:14:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14474 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 00:14:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12208; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:27:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA09841 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:26:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA09831 for ; Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:26:17 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 23:26:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 26431 invoked from network); 27 Aug 1999 05:28:06 -0000 Received: from 199.64.3-9.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.199) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 27 Aug 1999 05:28:06 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990826222739.3b6feed8@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Request Reliable Documentation for Kilts in the Medieval Period Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 03:24 PM 8/26/99 -0700, Carol J. Bell Cannon wrote: > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > This discussion comes up periodically in most SCA-oriented >lists. Once again, the gauntlet has been thrown. Does anyone here have >good documentation for kilts 500AD-1550AD ca.? >Thank you. -- Carol The simple answer is "no, there is no documentation that I have ever been able to find". McClintock and Dunbar are the two standard, reliable references for Scottish highland clothing. If your references can be traced to the 19th century, they are probably based on Sir Walter Scott's romanticism, and are unreliable. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 03:53:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA10939 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 03:53:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA22738; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 03:05:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA28378 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 03:04:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (mailgate@ah-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.217.154]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA28365 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 03:04:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.8) id FAA02676 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:04:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:03:54 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Frock Coat colours To: LIST historic costume Message-ID: <199908270504_MC2-8293-C065@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id DAA28366 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson Does anyone know what colours of frock coats were propular in the 1870s ? in England or was it a case of Black, black or black ? Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 05:45:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA11091 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:45:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26301; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 04:58:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA27403 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 04:57:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA27396 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 04:57:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JF9F1YYSGG003SDA@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:01:14 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JF9F1U743O003SBM@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:00:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:56:15 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:56:06 +1100 Received: from rf_lib_11161 (158.94.198.70) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:55:56 +1100 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:55:55 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-COST: US Costume event organizer question In-reply-to: <199908261559.JAA06069@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <26AE13F0794@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 Hi All, Sorry for the bandwidth for anyone this doesn't concern Any of you US based H-Costumers heard of a guy called Mark P Donnelly, in connection with (Costume?) convention organizing? He's living in the UK now and is organizing an event called "Costume Con UK 2000". None of us involved in Cotume Guild UK or Masque (The British Costume Convention) have heard of him before, as far as I know. He's billing the event as the first in the UK (despoite knowing about the existing British Costume Convention), has decreed that *all* attendees *must* wear costume and is using a set of entry level criteria for Masquerades based on "professional/non-professional" status instead of the Novice/Journeyman/Master levels wer're nore used to on the grounds that if he used those ones everyone from the UK would have to enter as a Novice (thereby implying that no- one over here has done any costuming at a high enough level to be worthy of notice, or has not participated in any event he regards as worthy of counting towards Jouneyman or Master status) I can see this getting people's backs-up and was wondering if any of you could shed some light on him and his previous activities. If anyone can help, please email me off-list at; teddy1@mdx.ac.uk Many thanks in advance Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 06:33:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11114 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:33:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28104; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:46:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA01403 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:45:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01393 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:45:32 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6BRYa03711 (4464) for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:44:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <851ec13f.24f7d43a@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:44:58 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Venetian lady, was Re: Elizabethan bodices and skirts To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 08/27/1999 1:16:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, joanj@quiknet.com writes: << it's hard to tell if the front of the bodice is a placket or not. >> Now I'm confused. By "placket" do you mean "plastron"? "Stomacher?" A placket I always thought was an added on strip that overlapped/underlapped for buttons or hooks & eyes or the added underlap for lacing. Do you mean this? Have I missed a definition? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 06:52:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11123 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:52:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29215; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:07:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA03402 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:06:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1102.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.122]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA03390 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:06:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990827120534.21295.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [199.95.154.2] by web1102.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:05:34 PDT Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:05:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Tammy Cox Subject: Re: H-COST: Frock Coat colours To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Tammy Cox My apologies that I don't have specific documentation at hand; but I believe there are some surviving examples in the Smithsonian that are a dark brown. Wether this is due to the black dye fading on the wool or the original colour, I am not sure. Lady Elspeth --- Melanie Wilson wrote: > > -Poster: Melanie Wilson > > > Does anyone know what colours of frock coats were > propular in the 1870s ? > in England or was it a case of Black, black or black > ? > > Mel > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 07:01:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11134 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:01:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29805; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:16:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA04248 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:15:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from oak.ait.fredonia.edu (oak.ait.fredonia.edu [141.238.1.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA04242 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:15:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [141.238.21.193] by oak.ait.fredonia.edu (NTMail 3.03.0018/1.aapi) with ESMTP id ia156944 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:15:00 -0500 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Carol Blanchard" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:13:14 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: OT - black dye Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.32a) Message-Id: <13150033104387@ait.fredonia.edu> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol Blanchard" The black magic marker (Sharpie or Rubadub) is a good suggestion. It works for the stage all the time. Some of them fade with subsequent washings/dry cleanings though. What has worked permanently for us are two dyes. The first is a direct dye (available from Aljo). It is a black dye made specifically for cotton and the only dye that really gets cotton BLACK (not gray like rit) when you immerse yardage of fabric. The other solution is Procion MX, a fibre reactive dye, made for cellulose fibres like cotton. You can mix it with a thickening agent (sodium alginate) and urea (to keep the fibres moist) and paint it on. You can set it in the dryer or with an iron and it is permanent through washings and cleanings. Hope this helps. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 07:07:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11150 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:07:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00178; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:22:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA04904 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:21:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA04898 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:21:21 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908271221.GAA04898@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 25616 invoked from network); 27 Aug 1999 06:21:21 -0600 Received: from ts26-25.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.139) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 1999 06:21:21 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume College Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 06:28:00 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" OK, Who, What, Where, When, is Costume College, please? Kathlene ---------- > From: Margo Anderson > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Costume College > Date: Wednesday, August 25, 1999 11:31 AM > > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > Having had such an overwhelming response to the review of the Simplicity > Elizabethan pattern that I posted, I've decided to put together a workshop > on the subject. I'd like to teach it at Costume College. Does anyone know > who I contact? > > Margo Anderson > Margo Anderson > "One Tough Costumer" > http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 08:07:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11237 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:07:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04312; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:21:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA12186 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:20:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12179 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:20:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01114 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 05:19:22 -0400 Message-ID: <37C69068.86CB22E9@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:19:38 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: US Costume event organizer question References: <26AE13F0794@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Hi Teddy, Never heard of him. Certainly has no tact, though. I did a websearch for the exact name; a person by that name has a book out: Siege (355.44) Mark P. Donnelly And a person by that name is the contact for "gothic weekends" in Yorkshire in 1997 at http://www.dracula1.demon.co.uk/page4.htm Good luck! -- Today's beauty ideal, strictly enforced by the media, is a person with the same level of body fat as a paper clip. -- Dave Barry _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 08:08:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11241 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:08:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04570; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:23:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA12510 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:22:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA12493 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:22:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA19757 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:22:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA16754 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:22:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:22:55 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed > This is the way I made my kirtle. I made it from faded blue-green linen > and lined the bodice with the same. I made the opening at the front, which > kind of jars a bit, as you can see it between the laces of the bodice, > which you don't seem to in the piccies, but I can put it on by myself. I laced my first petticoat on the side, under one arm; the other one I laced up the back. If I get a long enough lace, I can lace it loosely, pull it over my head and pull the lacing tight without much work. > Agreed. I don't get a whole lot of lift from my kirtle and bodice, but > it's very comfortable, and I don't move around much. I could probably > have fit them better, but then I've learned a lot about fitting one-piece > fronts since then. One thing I found helpful was wearing an elizabethan corset while fitting the kirtle. Then, when I wear it without a corset, it comes close to creating the same silhouette. Drea > I'm currently working on making a jacket (I have some light brown wool and > rose linen to line it with), a pair of sleeves (some purple wool - probably > not a good colour choice but it was left over from something else, and > as I was saying about wool...) and two partlets (one of cream linen, the > other of black wool lined with white linen). Oh, and a cap of some kind > for which I also have some cream linen. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 08:34:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11275 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:34:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06935; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:47:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16113 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:46:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16102; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:46:30 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:46:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908271346.HAA16102@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com From: Eloise Beltz-Decker (by way of "Carol J. Bell Cannon" ) Subject: H-COST: Serbian Garb 1300/1400's (fwd) Cc: Kralj Mirlan Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Eloise Beltz-Decker (by way of "Carol J. Bell Cannon" ) I'm forwarding to this list, because I figure if anyone can help this person, we can! Replies should be sent to them as well as to the list, I would think. CC'ed to them so you can get the address more easily than cut/paste from the body. -- Eloise Beltz-Decker eloise@ripco.com http://pages.ripco.com:8080/~eloise/ ICQ #46704590 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 25 AUG 1999 20:06:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Kralj Mirlan Newgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Serbian Garb 1300/1400's doc'ek, Before you guys go nuts this is not a stealth post for polotics My persona is a Serbian farmer/fighter from the 1300's 1400's. I am at a loss for type of clothing and farm technolgy available in Serbia at the time period I plan/wish to represent. Could you kind folk help me out? Hvala! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 08:36:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11279 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:36:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07479; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:49:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16468 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:48:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16455; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:48:54 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:48:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908271348.HAA16455@net.indra.com> From: "Wilson, Brad" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Costume College Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Wilson, Brad" Does anyone know if they tape some of the sessions for costume college, or if anyone is taping them, I would be willing to pay to get copies of some of the sessions (primarily SCA period related ones) ? Brad Wilson Carrollton, GA _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 08:53:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11331 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:53:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09511; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:07:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA19380 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:06:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1103.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.123]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA19367 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:06:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990827140822.12403.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [199.95.154.2] by web1103.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:08:22 PDT Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 07:08:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Tammy Cox Subject: Re: H-COST: Aaaagh! It's Celtic Renn! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Tammy Cox Anyone interested in very very early Irish/Welsh clothing should check out "Everyday life of the Pagan Celts" by Anee Ross, Ph.D. Elspeth --- Frank A Thallas Jr wrote: > > -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" > > > Are we still talking Irish/Scots/Welsh/whoever > clothing? > > Liadain, > her Train of Thought Derailed.... > ---------- > > > > What about prior to the 16th C? > > > > Kat > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 09:20:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11367 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:20:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12696; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:34:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24566 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:33:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from clmout1-int.prodigy.com (clmout1-ext.prodigy.com [207.115.58.139]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24557 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:33:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mime2.prodigy.com (mime2.prodigy.com [192.168.253.26]) by clmout1-int.prodigy.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA77478 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:33:56 -0400 Received: (from root@localhost) by mime2.prodigy.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id KAA17644 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:33:32 -0400 Message-Id: <199908271433.KAA17644@mime2.prodigy.com> X-Mailer: Prodigy Internet GW(v0.9beta) - ae01dm04sc03 From: CMBH71C@prodigy.com (MS SHELLEY V CORBIN) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:33:32, -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: fwd:newborns in need Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: CMBH71C@prodigy.com (MS SHELLEY V CORBIN) forwarded message below: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hi all, I recently heard about Newborns in Need also. They have a web page (http://www.newbornsinneed.org), and they have chapters around the country. They seek donations of hand made gowns for premie babies as well as burial gowns for the babies that don't survive. For a small fee (it's really a contribution) they will send you a packet of patterns that includes sewn, smocked, knitted and crocheted items to make for premies and a beautiful little burial gown that has angel wings on it (I know, I probably have you all crying by now - it's hard not to when you think of such a sad event). They will also accept donations of fabric from those who do not sew. The premie outfits are donated to families who unexpectedly have to deal with a tiny infant and no clothing to fit such a small size. The burial gowns are used sometimes for parents to hold their deceased infant and have a picture taken with them before they have to let them go. Sounds like a very worthwhile organization to contribute to. Annick Phillips ------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 09:42:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11397 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:42:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15049; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:55:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA28727 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:54:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28720 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:54:37 -0600 (MDT) From: CONNECT@aol.com Received: from CONNECT@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ERa001987 (4415) for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:54:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <89320872.24f8008b@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:54:03 EDT Subject: H-COST: Attifet or wired veil To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: CONNECT@aol.com Good People, I've used the Winter and Savoy book to create an attifet--heart-shaped hat and veil that was popular with Mary Stuart and common during the 1570s. I didn't like it, and put it away in hopes of making something better. That time has arrived. Does anyone have a pattern or instructions for making an attifet that are better than those I used originally? Yours gratefully, Pattie Rayl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 09:51:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11406 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:51:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16543; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:05:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01062 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:04:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01050 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:04:28 -0600 (MDT) From: DRGurley@aol.com Received: from DRGurley@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6YCKa03711 (4584) for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8d39ae47.24f802d6@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:03:50 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Attifet or wired veil To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DRGurley@aol.com In a message dated 8/27/99 9:55:55 AM Central Daylight Time, CONNECT@aol.com writes: > Does anyone have a pattern or instructions for making an attifet that are > better than those I used originally? I would also appreciate this information as this is the style of hat I would like to complete to go with my new gown. Would I be correct in wearing this style with 1590's Elizabethan? DaniG _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 09:55:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11411 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:55:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17039; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:09:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA02224 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:09:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA02214 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from airmail.net from [207.136.25.21] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.405) with esmtp for sender: id ; Fri, 27 Aug 99 10:08:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37C6A6E1.D1FDFA7A@airmail.net> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:55:30 -0500 From: Megan & David Schmidt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.net Subject: H-COST: McCall's P432 (Star Wars Episode I) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Megan & David Schmidt I picked up this McCalls Star Wars pattern yesterday at the insistance of my 5 year old daughter. (Who incidently would make an adorable Anakin Skywalker, but adamently refuses--she wants to be Queen Amadala, of course) There was a point in my life where I would have gladly sewn up a costume straight from this pattern. However, thanks to this LIST (big grin) I'm on my way to Walmart to find some coloring books or paper dolls to help me adapt the pattern to look more like the real costumes. Thanks for giving me the courage/confidence to go altering patterns for accuracy. Megan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 09:58:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11415 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:58:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17534; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:12:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA02795 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:12:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.sun-spot.com (IDENT:root@mail.sun-spot.com [208.154.174.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02785 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:12:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brand (lon46-pm3.sun-spot.com [208.166.155.157]) by mail.sun-spot.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA15550 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:11:57 -0400 Message-ID: <00af01bef09f$1a306c80$9d9ba6d0@brand> From: "M. Gregory" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: looking for cheap cotton solids Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:15:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "M. Gregory" Greetings, This is a great time of year to check (of all places) Walmart. I don't know about the rest of the country, but in the Midwest, they're currently selling out alot of their summerweight fabric. We just found 100% cotton in a nice, medium weight, linen style weave, several colors, at 1.50 a yard. I noticed that the local ones also have tables of 1 and 2 dollar a yard stuff right now. Alot of prints, (especially prarie cotton style) but a few solids. Brand Thorfinnsson (M. Gregory) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 10:10:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11429 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:10:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19037; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:24:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05457 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:23:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA05443 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:23:34 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990827152403.21315.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:24:03 PDT Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:24:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: McCall's P432 (Star Wars Episode I) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Suggestion for you... the paper doll book... I know, it sounds silly, but it has some pretty good representations of the dresses from the movie. Sarah --- Megan & David Schmidt wrote: > > -Poster: Megan & David Schmidt > > I picked up this McCalls Star Wars pattern yesterday > at the insistance > of my 5 year old daughter. (Who incidently would > make an adorable > Anakin Skywalker, but adamently refuses--she wants > to be Queen Amadala, > of course) > > > There was a point in my life where I would have > gladly sewn up a costume > straight from this pattern. However, thanks to this > LIST (big grin) > I'm on my way to Walmart to find some coloring books > or paper dolls to > help me adapt the pattern to look more like the real > costumes. > > Thanks for giving me the courage/confidence to go > altering patterns for > accuracy. > > Megan > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 10:15:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11433 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:15:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19657; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:29:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06649 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:28:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06636 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:28:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA17294; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37C6AF26.5820DE1A@serv.net> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 08:30:47 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover I am absolutely drooling over all the descriptions of your lower class clothing!!! I know some of you (Drea?) have a website. Any way we can see pictures. I'm dying to see these! Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 10:22:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11439 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:22:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20679; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:36:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08213 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:35:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08206 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:35:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA26913 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:35:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA26106 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:35:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:35:39 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust In-Reply-To: <37C6AF26.5820DE1A@serv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed They are coming, and soon--I promise! In fact, I might be getting some up in the next couple of weeks. Until then, there's just the one upper-torso pic on the Flemish Dress article. (http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/lowerclass/flemish-dress.html) And I, too would love to see what others have made! Drea > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > > I am absolutely drooling over all the descriptions of your lower class > clothing!!! I know some of you (Drea?) have a website. Any way we can see > pictures. I'm dying to see these! > > Cynthia > > -- > Cynthia Long > Merouda the True of Bornover > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of An Tir > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 11:18:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11478 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:18:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00371; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:27:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21028 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:26:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21011 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:26:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FH400J9CTN65G@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:25:54 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:32:48 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Request Reliable Documentation for Kilts in the Medieval Period X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990827113248.007a2100@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson <"Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > This discussion comes up periodically in most SCA-oriented >lists. Once again, the gauntlet has been thrown. Does anyone here have >good documentation for kilts 500AD-1550AD ca.? >Thank you. -- Carol There is NO "reliable" documentation (and sparse unreliable) for kilts before the 1600s (and MAYBE the 1580s). Before that point, there are depictions of men in Leines, or whatever the English were wearing. There is the Rogart Shirt. But this doesn't say that people *didn't* wear kilts but most serious scholars that have addressed the question say it suggests that they "probably" didn't. There is no way to PROVE a negative like "people didn't wear kilts", so we are left with a lot of speculuation, guesses, and people wanting to look like movies and their fantasies of what medieval Scots looked like - which is thier option. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 11:27:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11484 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:27:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02689; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:38:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23873 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:37:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23861 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:37:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p23.directcon.net [206.170.184.72]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25897 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:36:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908271636.JAA25897@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 08:30 AM 08/27/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > >I am absolutely drooling over all the descriptions of your lower class >clothing!!! I know some of you (Drea?) have a website. Any way we can see >pictures. I'm dying to see these! > > Mine has to be done by September 20, and I'll get pictures on my site soon after. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 11:27:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11488 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:27:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00355; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:27:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20991 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:26:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20975 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:26:03 -0600 (MDT) From: M311@aol.com Received: from M311@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6YUFa06251 (3971) for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:25:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:25:24 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST:Pleats To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: M311@aol.com In a message dated 8/26/99 11:13:18 PM Central Daylight Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << Now you've got me curious. What magazine? >> It is the Fall 1999 Countdown 2000 catalog of Lew Magram. Page 19 outfit H, the red skirt suit. Kelly m311@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 12:10:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11539 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:10:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10251; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:25:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02439 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:13:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02428 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.94] (ell74.acadia.net [205.217.218.58]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA11293 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:20:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:14:19 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: venetians and french ladies Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <<>Well, guess what...on page 132 of QE'S Wardrobe, there's a woodcut of a >venetian noblewoman, wearing a patterned bodice and a solid color overskirt, >which is hiked up to show an underskirt of the same pattern as the bodice. But Venetians have always been contrary . >> On page 116 of the same book, there's "Unmarried French noblewoman" wearing a bodice with diagonal stripes, and a unstriped petticoat over a damask-stype petticoat. In the one on page 132, the bodice is one piece, probably with curved seams behind the armscyce, and fastened at CB. There is an attached plain petticoat, but the bodice appears to match (or is very similar to) the underpetticoat, which is visible only because she's lifting the gown. There is also an extra layer (notice the tight pleating and weights) that comes from the enormous wired veil. She's holding that in her hands as well as the petticoat of the gown. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 12:30:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11571 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:30:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAB02016; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:35:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23131 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:34:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23118 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 10:34:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p23.directcon.net [206.170.184.72]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25559 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 09:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908271634.JAA25559@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Attifet or wired veil Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >I've used the Winter and Savoy book to create an attifet--heart-shaped hat >and veil that was popular with Mary Stuart and common during the 1570s. I >didn't like it, and put it away in hopes of making something better. That >time has arrived. > Me too. The Winters and Savoy pattern doesn't work for me. I've been working on a mock-up of the crescent shaped attifet brim attached to a caul (circle gathered onto a band). the problem I've encountered is that the brim needs to be very stiff. If you just use fabric and put wire in the edge, it folds back on itself, so the entire brim needs to be stiffened. Since most of these capps seem to be at least semisheer, interfacing them doesn't work, and a strong starch solution needs to be used. I've been wondering, though, if I'm on the wrong track. I've read references to "wired veils" Could it be that the wired edge is simply one end of a veil pinned on *top* of a caul? Has anyone tried it that way? Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 13:19:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11619 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:19:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19266; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:33:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19649 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:32:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [209.246.15.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19634 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:32:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA06336 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id LAA15659; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:32:32 -0700 Message-ID: <37C7811E.7D202EDB@us.oracle.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:26:38 -0700 From: Sally Norton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Frock Coat colours References: <199908270504_MC2-8293-C065@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sally Norton I did quite a bit of research on frock coats 2 years ago when we had one made for my husband. The only colours I found were black and charcoal grey (which is almost black). Sally Norton snorton@us.oracle.com Melanie Wilson wrote: > -Poster: Melanie Wilson > > Does anyone know what colours of frock coats were propular in the 1870s ? > in England or was it a case of Black, black or black ? > > Mel > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 13:30:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11627 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:30:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20650; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:44:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22149 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:44:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22131 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA19559 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-37.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.37]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA26057 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:43:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001201bef0bc$da9ea320$c628fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: National Geographic Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 11:49:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" I saw this encyclopedia type multi-disked program at Best Buy. I am not sure if it was a sale, clearance or regular price but it was $79 or $89 bucks. If you are looking to buy this resource, you may want to shop around a bit more. Michelle > >-Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > >The NG at COSTCO is about $129. > >>I was really excited about the CD when it came out. Then it was priced >$199. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 14:11:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11673 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:11:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26743; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:26:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00664 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:25:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00636; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:25:05 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 13:25:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908271925.NAA00636@net.indra.com> From: Tammy Cox Subject: Re: H-COST: Request Reliable Documentation for Kilts in the Medieval Period To: h-costume@indra.com Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Tammy Cox The earliest reference I can find in my Library is a frenchman name Beaugue who visited Scotland in 1556 as a court chronicler. He wrote "They were no clothes except their light coloured shirts and woolen coverings of several colours. certaines couvertures legeres faites de laine de plusieurs couleurs. Which are belted at the waist and they go bare from knee to foot. Elspeth --- Marc Carlson wrote: > > -Poster: Marc Carlson > > <"Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > > This discussion comes up periodically in > most SCA-oriented > >lists. Once again, the gauntlet has been thrown. > Does anyone here have > >good documentation for kilts 500AD-1550AD ca.? > >Thank you. -- Carol > > There is NO "reliable" documentation (and sparse > unreliable) for kilts > before the 1600s > (and MAYBE the 1580s). Before that point, there are > depictions of men in > Leines, or > whatever the English were wearing. There is the > Rogart Shirt. But this > doesn't say that > people *didn't* wear kilts but most serious scholars > that have addressed > the question say > it suggests that they "probably" didn't. There is > no way to PROVE a > negative like "people > didn't wear kilts", so we are left with a lot of > speculuation, guesses, and > people wanting > to look like movies and their fantasies of what > medieval Scots looked like > - which is thier > option. > > Marc > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > === Lady Elspeth de Forbeys Barony of the Steppes motto: Aurum peccamenes mutlifariam texi __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 15:18:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11789 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:18:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06257; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:32:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA14166 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:31:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spamgaaa.compuserve.com (as-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.217.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14148 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:31:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id QAA13804 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:31:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:31:29 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Frock coat colour To: LIST historic costume Message-ID: <199908271631_MC2-82B0-A048@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id OAA14152 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson To answer my own question :Anne Buck states Black, blue, brown or mulberry with the greastest survivors being black or blue. After 1890s dark grey came in too I still wonder where the Scarlet hunting coats came in which are very similar in design even now Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 15:18:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11793 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:18:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06315; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:33:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA14163 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:31:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spamgaaa.compuserve.com (as-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.217.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14150 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:31:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id QAA13811 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:31:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:31:31 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Kilts & Tartan in Medieval Period To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908271631_MC2-82B0-A049@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id OAA14151 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson Might I suggest : You need the A Short History of Scottish dress by grange , it specificallygoes out to prove tartan history prior to 1745, the first ref being c206 Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 15:33:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11806 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:33:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08286; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:48:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17485 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:47:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17473 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:47:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FH500LE05QC3L@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:47:00 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:53:55 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: H-COST: Kilts & Tartan in Medieval Period In-reply-to: <199908272032.OAA14247@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990827155355.007993c0@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson >From: Melanie Wilson >Might I suggest : > You need the A Short History of Scottish dress by grange , it >specificallygoes out to prove tartan history prior to 1745, the first ref >being c206 I'll be happy to do so, personally. Does the existance of "tartan" = "kilt"? Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 16:32:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11837 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:32:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16133; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:46:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA29575 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:45:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29556 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:45:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-140.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.140]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA26209 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:45:11 -0700 Message-ID: <002101bef0d5$b3946620$8caba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: McCalls Rev War Patterns Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:47:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" I was browsing through the McCalls pattern book today and came across patterns #2258 and #2253, Revolutionary War costume patterns. They looked fairly good. Has anyone else with experience in this era seen these? If so, what do you think of them? Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 16:33:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11841 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:33:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16249; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:47:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA29919 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:46:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29910 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 15:46:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-140.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.140]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA26284 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:46:48 -0700 Message-ID: <002301bef0d5$ed74aee0$8caba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: OT - black dye Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:48:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" Do you have anymore information on this Aljo? I did a search and all I came up with was Aljo Travel Trailers :) Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 17:09:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11859 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:09:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21003; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:24:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07415 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:23:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07401 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:23:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.94] (ell257.acadia.net [205.217.210.113]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA25925 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:30:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:24:33 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: cut of coats Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> If you mean for foxhunting, they were first made in the 18c. but the cut wasn't fossilized until the early 20c. And even today, they're made in different cuts -- for the field, and for very formal wear (cut as a tailcoat.) Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 18:05:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11938 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:05:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27777; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:19:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17214 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:18:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17207 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:18:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA13186 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-153.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.153]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06844 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:18:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <02cc01bef0e3$352f7e60$c628fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:08:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >> Regardless of the type of kirtle worn under the gown, they do provide a >> lot of support. In fact, if you wear a petticoat bodies under a kirtle as >> well, you can get an almost corseted look (if you're large-busted) or be >> flat as a board (if you're small-chested). I am a bit confused here. Could you clarify? Maybe a more detailed description of how these garments are generally worn would help me... Thanks, Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 18:05:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11937 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:05:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27785; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17183 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:18:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17174 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 17:18:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA12959 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:18:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-153.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.153]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA06635 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 16:18:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <02c101bef0e3$2c157a00$c628fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Winter and Savoy Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:46:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Hi all, I've heard this book referred to but never seen a copy. Did Imiss the ISBN and other details (like title?) being posted or is it so well- known that no-one bothered? Would some kind soul pleas post the details (again)? No problem! Elizabethan Costuming for the Years 1550-1580 Copyright 79,83 & 87 by Janet Winter and Carolyn Schultz Savoy ISBN 0-09630220-0-8 Other times productions 361 60th Str Oakland, CA 94618 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 19:27:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12098 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:27:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03967; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:41:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27466 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:39:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27457 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:39:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA21013 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:39:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA04386 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:39:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:39:41 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Attifet Epiphany Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Oh man, I am SO excited that I just have to share a discovery I made this evening with people who would be more enthused than "that's nice, dear." I was thinking about the post on attifets that someone had made earlier today, and about how it was such a shame that none existed to look at so we could figure out how the dang things were made. I started trying to think of previous and post-attifet headwear that resembled the creature that a person might work from. After all, the wired Elizabethan flemish hood was a descendent of the tudor starched flemish hood. So, I thought, what other type of Elizabethan headwear comes to a point in the front and curves back along the sides? Bingo--a late period Elizabethan coif. When I got home from work I whipped one up and inserted some heavy millinary wire along the front edge. Once I'd shaped it and put my hair up poofy in the front, I put it on and gathered the back and tied it. SHAZAM! A completely period looking 1590s attifet!! I did have to make one change--the original coif pattern I used gathered at the crown, and that ended up looking kind of funky when the front was wired. I had to sew it into a curve to fit my head. And the wire along the front edge, when stitched into place, made a pronounced ridge; but I hid that by sewing some lace around the front.Like you see on most every late elizabethan coif around. And if you cut back the front top to a less pronounced point, you get the wavier, less pointed style of attifet you see in many portraits. Yippee! I can't believe I never thought of this before! If anyone doesn't know the kind of coif I'm talking about here, there's pictures of it at http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/headwear/coifpics.html If anyone else tries this, I would love to hear feedback from them on how it looks & fits. Thanks and have a good evening, Drea (dancing a jig) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 19:33:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12104 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:33:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04489; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:47:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA28248 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:46:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28238 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:46:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA21302 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:46:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA05002 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:47:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:47:12 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust In-Reply-To: <02cc01bef0e3$352f7e60$c628fea9@gunsafes> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed > > > > I am a bit confused here. Could you clarify? Maybe a more detailed > description of how these garments are generally worn would help me... > Thanks, > Michelle By "kirtle", I'm talking about a close-fitting sleeveless gown fitted down to the upper hip and flaring into a bell-like skirt from there. I fitted it over a corset, so that when I wear it without a corset it performs a good deal of the same function. Of course, kirtle is a very vague word in the 16th century...the shape of mine is just one interpretation of it. by "Petticoat bodies", I'm talking about a flat, unshaped bodice--again sleeveless, and with a low, square neck--to the waist of which a petticoat was sewn. Petticoat bodies are referenced in some wardrobe accounts, though no pictures of them or material remains exist. (There is a bodice that Arnold has in her Patterns of Fashion book that she thinks may have been a petticoat bodies, but that's about it). It may be much the same thing as the "gathered kirtle" in Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe accounts...or it may not. So the one I made was a combination of the petticoat bodies bodice in Arnold, a petticoat skirt, and some informed speculation. The bodice of a petticoat bodies is flat in front, which also helps support the bosom. Hope this helps, Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 20:26:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12147 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:26:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08540; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:41:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04196 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:40:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04190 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:40:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.15] (sdts10-15.znet.net [207.167.66.15]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id SAA26100 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:40:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199908271433.KAA17644@mime2.prodigy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 18:23:17 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: fwd:newborns in need Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams > I recently heard about Newborns in Need also. They have a web page > >(http://www.newbornsinneed.org), and they have chapters around the >country. They seek donations of hand made gowns for premie babies as >well >as burial gowns for the babies that don't survive. For a small fee >(it's >really a contribution) they will send you a packet of patterns that >includes sewn, smocked, knitted and crocheted items to make Though a bit off topic, the gowns could also be used for doll clothing too and some look simple enough for basic period smocks if sized up a bit for a newborn. I do think I'll buy the patterns and make a few things to donate. I still have the knitted cap and tiny crotchet receiving blanket that my oldest son wore when he was in NICU (born 10 weeks premature at 2 lbs 11 oz). They are so tiny and precious. They didn't have any gowns so small though, so most of the time when the put the newborn shirts on they were enormous and awful. It is a very hard time for parents when their babies are so sick and no one ever expects to need clothing so small. They really appreciate that people take the time to make these things for the babies. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 20:27:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12151 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:27:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08624; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:41:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04282 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:40:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA04277 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:40:53 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:40:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 615 invoked from network); 28 Aug 1999 01:42:31 -0000 Received: from 20.70.3-10.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.70.20) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 1999 01:42:31 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990827184244.3be7d47c@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Venetian lady, was Re: Elizabethan bodices and skirts Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 07:44 AM 8/27/99 EDT, AlbertCat@aol.com wrote: > >-Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > >In a message dated 08/27/1999 1:16:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >joanj@quiknet.com writes: > ><< it's hard to tell if the front of the bodice is a placket or not. >> > >Now I'm confused. By "placket" do you mean "plastron"? "Stomacher?" A placket >I always thought was an added on strip that overlapped/underlapped for >buttons or hooks & eyes or the added underlap for lacing. Do you mean this? >Have I missed a definition? AlbertCat, thanks for clarifying my rather confused post from too late last night. Yes, I did mean a plastron (at least "placket" starts with a "p" ) or stomacher. I really should not post when I'm that tired. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 20:43:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12160 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:43:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10221; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:57:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06110 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:57:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06102 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oup-pc [209.204.82.142] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A0F02A9C0140; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:52:48 -0400 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:56:44 -0400 Message-ID: <01BEF0D7.0D58A260.vjlyons@snip.net> From: Vince & Kerrie Lyons To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: OT:newborns in need Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:56:31 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Vince & Kerrie Lyons I sent my order in for the patterns moments after reading the original message. I've been looking for projects to start teaching my own "babies" (ages 10 and 8) to sew and knit, as well as opportunities for them to share their many blessings. What a beautiful way to do both. Many thanks for passing this link along. :-D With warmth, Kerrie -----Original Message----- From: Julie Adams [SMTP:savaskan@sd.znet.com] Sent: Friday, August 27, 1999 10:23 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: fwd:newborns in need > I recently heard about Newborns in Need also. They have a web page > >(http://www.newbornsinneed.org), and they have chapters around the >country. They seek donations of hand made gowns for premie babies as >well >as burial gowns for the babies that don't survive. For a small fee >(it's >really a contribution) they will send you a packet of patterns that >includes sewn, smocked, knitted and crocheted items to make _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 20:58:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12170 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:58:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12403; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:13:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07595 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:12:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07585 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:12:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990828021226.FXDR1639.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 19:12:26 -0700 Message-ID: <37C74593.72825FC2@home.com> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:12:35 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: fwd:newborns in need References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent I can't remember the name but there is another place on the web which provides items for preemies including patterns. I found them *just* after my daughter grew into regular newborn clothes. Preemie clothing can also be found at BabiesRUs now which is good...my daughter came home from the hospital wearing the only one in town that I could find. Caps are especially important. And if you are making things for parents of preemies who survive, and you like to cross-stitch you might consider making a little pillow/sign that says something like, "I know I'm very cute and I'm sure you'd like to touch but I was born too early and they don't let me out much!". I always kept a sign on my daughter's car seat carrier until she was old enough that the ped said we didn't need to worry about others being around her anymore. I just wish I'd had the cloth slings back then (another item that you can get a pattern for from Elizabeth Lee Designs) so that kangaroo care would have been easier. Something else I did for both my kids was to make receiving blankets out of heavy flannel (the very soft doublesided stuff) with alternating colored blanket stitched hems. They were bigger than those things you find in stores and *much* more convenient for me (and my six year old still uses one of hers!). Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 21:18:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12194 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:18:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13797; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:33:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA09574 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:32:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09476; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:32:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-86-58.s58.tnt6.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.86.58]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id WAA26826; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:31:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002701bef0fd$3324e280$3a56accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Cc: "Vintage" Subject: H-COST: Princess Di gown Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:29:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" The Richmond Princess Di ball gown will be on the new TV show, "Treasures in Your Home" at 7:00 PM Tuesday, on PAX cable television. For those Cyber Cinderella fans, we will be film LIVE from the mansion where the big gala occurred. So you will get to see another room of the house, the elevator waiting room! The room has a special stand for the mannequin and walls that have floor-to-ceiling gilded mirrors. Mrs. Minor will be discussing how we care for the gown, and make efforts to preserve it. The show contacted me via my website. This is a group of really nice people. Mrs. Minor will also discuss how she uses the gown to promote charity events. These are the events that I follow the gown around and prep it for exhibit. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 22:31:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12281 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:31:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19114; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:46:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16591 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:45:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16579 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:45:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.133 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 20:44:29 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: antarctica Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:38:28 -0400 Message-ID: <000d01bef108$e5f7b080$410bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <37C35677.4D0E6A7@pacbell.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Thanks for *much* better accuracy! I never saw the BBC Masterpiece Theatre series on the Antarctic Expeditions ... there's a documentary out there too--dogsleds and nordic skis. PBS (America's *Public Broadcasting System*) gets some of its best stuff from the BBC. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Dietmar > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 10:36 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Re: antarctica > > > > -Poster: Dietmar > > Greetings, > > Margo suggested: > > > Has anyone mentioned the National Geographic Society as a > source for research > > on late 19th and 20th century explorers? Copious photos > and articles have > > been printed in the magazine, in addition the Society > sponsors expiditions > > and could probably make records available. > > A better source might be the Royal Geographic Society. Scott > was a member and > was heavily funded by them, I believe. > > Hope added: > > >> The responses have covered at least three entirely > separate expeditions: > >> Amundson, Scott, and Schackleton. Very different time > frames, groups, and > >> internal politics. Can't generalize from one to the other. > I think, but am > >> not sure, that is was the Scott expediton that involved > the nordic skis > >> and dog sleds. > > Nope. the Scott expedition got in a lot of trouble because he > DIDN'T use dogs > and sleds. He tried to be modern and use motor sledges, but > the extreme > conditions in Antarctica prevented them from running. One of > them was lost > almost immediately when it broke through the ice and sank. He > also tried to > use Siberian ponies. Unfortunately, the man he sent to buy > them new nothing > about horses and bought old and sickly animals. Amundsen used > dogs and sleds, > left later than Scott and beat him to the poll. Scott reached > the pool only to > find that he was not the first and died trying to make it to > his supply cache. > > >> Those who raced to the pole all died. I thought it was a > mixed nationality > >> group. In any event, most of my info on it came from a > very detailed Public > >> Television show a few years ago. Whether to travel heavy > or light was a > >> matter of constant debate. > > Scott's expedition was all Brits. They had a lot of trouble > with supplies. > Their horses died one by one on the way to the poll. In the > end they were on > foot. I believe the PBS (BBC?) series was: > > THE LAST PLACE ON EARTH (Scott and Amundsen) The story of > the epic (and > ultimately tragic) race to the South Pole between rival > explorers Robert > Falcon Scott and Raold Amundsen, as seen on MASTERPIECE > THEATRE. $129.98 seven > vol. set 6 1/2 hours Color > > Regards, > > Dietmar > > > "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; > over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 23:08:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12329 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:08:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21820; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:23:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA20162 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:22:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from falcon.canfield.com (falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20146 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deathstar (deathstar.canfield.com [206.191.139.22]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA12956 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:27:17 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990827211006.0098f2e0@mail.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslie@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:19:26 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: Tartan/Kilt In-Reply-To: <199908280345.VAA16642@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Leslie Helms Marc asked: Does the existance of "tartan" = "kilt"? No, not in most of what I've seen. Unfortunately the terminology is flakey. If only we could get consensus, someone could do a Scottish FAQ; the world needs one! There's the word for blanket, the word for checked/plaid blanket, the word for big checked/plaid blanket.... gah! At its simplest, tartan is the plaid fabric and kilt is the clothing item. One does not presuppose the other. The plaid is generally thought to have come first, but the Visigoths may have been wearing neatly pleated plain-fabric kilts for all we can prove. The kilt, primarily a wrapped garment, does not show up well in archeological finds. There is mention of a particular type of plaid early in the McLean family records (late 16th century--I can look it up again if anyone cares) which seems to correspond with what is now the Hunting McLean tartan. Does anyone know of other very early mentions of plaid designs or color combinations? Yes, I know the clan tartans came much later, but some of them were based on tradition, and that's what I'm looking into. Leslie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Aug 27 23:33:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12385 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:33:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23764; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:47:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA22104 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:46:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22098 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 22:46:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.125 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 21:45:43 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: antarctica Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:18:52 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01bef111$73b173e0$410bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <199908242003.QAA27697@smtp3.erols.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" A pyjama jacket??? Was it sentiment, or thrift, or just a bleary-eyed morning the day he left? Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Brenda and Larry Clough > Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 4:03 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: antarctica > > > > -Poster: Brenda and Larry Clough > > At 02:48 PM 8/24/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > >-Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) > > > >< separate expeditions. > >Amundson, Scott, and Schackleton. Very different time > frames, groups, and > >internal politics. Can't generalize from one to the other. >> > > > >Well, if there's no information available on the Scott > expedition, I'd say > >it would be better to generalize from other expeditions in > the same time > >period than to make things up. In addition, the original > question asked > >about clothing terminology and vocabulary, which certainly can be > >generalized from one English expedition to another at the > very least. In > >many cases, the expeditions used the same suppliers. > > > > In fact I went to the library this morning, and got out a shallow but > fascinating book, ANTARCTICA: Great Stories from the Frozen Continent, > published by Readers' Digest. Among many other things, it > has a discussion > of sledging, what the old explorers used to eat, and yes! a > sidebar titled, > "A Well-Dressed Explorer From the Heroic Age." From this I > quote, with my > own comments in brackets: > > "Furs were only worn on hands and feet. Scott disapproved of > them for other > garments... [the dickweed! sorry.] The outer windproof suit > was made from > thin, waterproofed gaberdine and consisted of a top, trousers > and leggings. > The suit had to be easy to put on and to take off, and at the > same time > completely impervious to blown snow... Hands were protected by woollen > halfmitts which extended from the knuckles almost to the > elbows. Over these > were worn lined fur mitts. In addition for outer work, there > were felt and > woolen mitts. These could be windproofed by simply wetting > them so taht > they froze -- the ice formed an impenetrable covering. > > "A fleecy helmet [balaclava?] woven from camel hair protected > all but the > wearer's face. Officers and men...each wore a thick suit of > underclothing, > one or two flannel shirts, a jersey, a pair of pilot cloth > trousers, and a > pyjama jacket. Some wore a woollen scarf, while others > relied on a collar > to keep their necks warm. [What on earth is pilot cloth?] > > Regards, > Brenda > > > Brenda W. Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD from Tor Books. > http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 28 01:12:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12439 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 01:12:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29951; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:26:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA01053 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:25:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01048 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:25:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA20830 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:25:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-191.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.191]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA05343 for ; Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001e01bef11e$e40b20c0$aa75fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:30:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" . Of course, kirtle is a very vague word in >the 16th century...the shape of mine is just one interpretation of it. The kirtle I had heard of. An A-line gown with form fitted sleeves. You would need that under a sideless surcoat. (Or "gates of hell" dress, as I have heard from the SCAdians.) It is the Petticoat part that through me. Do you think that it is called that to signify that it is worn underneath? Like a petticoat vs and underskirt. You might let your underskirt show but never your petticoats. (Unless, you happen to have a fancy trim or lace and you want just the bottom peaking...) > >by "Petticoat bodies", I'm talking about a flat, unshaped bodice--again >sleeveless, and with a low, square neck--to the waist of which a petticoat >was sewn. Similar to the Tudor bodice right? So what you are saying is that it is pretty much the equivalent of wearing two bodices, instead of a corset and bodice? You wouldn't wear a corset, a petticoat bodice and a bodice on the outside, right? 2 or 2, not 3 >The bodice of a petticoat bodies is flat in front, which also helps >support the bosom. > >Hope this helps, > >Drea > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 28 01:39:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12447 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 01:39:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01151; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA02983 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:52:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (alpha.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.21.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02978 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:52:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from antiquity.pbc.adelphia.net (surf12-151-236.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.151.236]) by alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id CAA16112 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 02:56:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001301bef122$2888f940$ec973018@pbc.adelphia.net> From: "Erica Pence" To: Subject: H-COST: Tartan history Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 02:54:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEF100.A07B9420" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Erica Pence" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEF100.A07B9420 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01BEF100.A07B9420" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01BEF100.A07B9420 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here is a short article based on a book by Blair Urquhart. It discusses = the history of the tartan, not necessarily kilts. I thought it might = interest some of you. http://www.house-of-tartan.scotland.net/story/ Erica Pence Robes of Antiquity www.robesofantiquity.com Online store coming soon! ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01BEF100.A07B9420 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here is a short article based on a book by Blair=20 Urquhart.  It discusses the history of the tartan, not necessarily=20 kilts.  I thought it might interest some of you.

 http://www.house-= of-tartan.scotland.net/story/
 
Erica Pence
Robes of Antiquity
www.robesofantiquity.com
= Online=20 store coming soon!
------=_NextPart_001_0010_01BEF100.A07B9420-- ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEF100.A07B9420 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Story of Tartan.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Story of Tartan.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.house-of-tartan.scotland.net/story/ [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.house-of-tartan.scotland.net/story/ Modified=A0517A8020F1BE01BB ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01BEF100.A07B9420-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 28 01:43:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12454 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 01:43:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01353; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:55:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA03225 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:55:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spdmgaae.compuserve.com (ds-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.206.138]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03216 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id CAA17065 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 02:54:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 02:54:08 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Kilts & Tartan in Medieval Period To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908280254_MC2-82A8-8A9F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id AAA03220 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson >I'll be happy to do so, personally. Does the existance of "tartan" = "kilt"? No of course not, but it is an element of kilt, ie you don't get kilt without tartan so tartan preceeds kilt my dear ! I don't have the book anymore as I sold it to somebody who specifically wanted info on the early period. So I can't look up if it mentions kilt. However on the rash assumption the original poster was looking for acxcurate information on early highland/scottish dress I suggested the best ref on that I know. Note EARLY, there are other very good refs for later kilts etc. Also the great kilt & the small kilt are two different things and may well have originated from an earlier form, which may or may not be mentioned in this book, I can't remember. Obviously something inspired somebody to wear a blanket around their waist, they didn't all spontaneously do it for no reason . THe tartan was worn as a mantle though earlier & this is roughly the same size as the GK, so presumable it followed from there after all Great kilts are hardy a great work of tailoring. And big bits of cloth are used for many styles of clothing across many cultures eg Saris, peplos, toga, tube dress etc. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 28 01:43:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12458 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 01:43:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01354; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:55:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA03218 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:55:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spdmgaaf.compuserve.com (ds-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.206.139]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03206 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:54:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id CAA19872 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 02:54:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 02:54:09 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Request Reliable Documentation for Kilts in the Medieval Period To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908280254_MC2-82A8-8AA1@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id AAA03208 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson >to look like movies and their fantasies of what medieval Scots looked like - - which is thier option. The thing to remember is being Scots dosen't mean being a highlander ie not all Scots ARE highlanders, certainly Wallis wasn't neither were many of the 'heros' of Scotlands past. Tartan fabric, but not tartan specific to a clan is recorded far back. The wearing of large pieces of fabric is common in many cultures, which at the end of the day is all a great kilt is, doubles nicely as a blanket. So on the assumption that the tartan fabric came out as a large piece of fabric, that was probably worn in some form ! Probably more cloak or mantle like . Also you are looking at highlanders when you look for kilts really remember. Then there is the movment of Scots & Irish mixed in there too. but the saffron shirt is more significant here. and whilst NOT a kilt has lower pleats where a kilt might be, thus possibily inspiring the pleats of the kilt later on ? Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 28 01:57:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12464 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 01:57:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01284; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:55:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA03170 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:54:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spamgaaf.compuserve.com (as-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.217.151]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03165 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 00:54:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id CAA14204 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 02:54:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 02:54:07 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Foxhunting coats To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908280254_MC2-82A8-8A9E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id AAA03166 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson >If you mean for foxhunting, What other type of hunting is there :0) > they were first made in the 18c. but the cut wasn't fossilized until the early 20c. I came across a ref after I posted this that states that the short frock coat was used for hunting, 19th C, earlier riding coats were of the morning coat style ie a curved cut away. Which is from whence the morning coat derived. I know of hunting scarlets that are late 19th C & still being worn, they look very similar to the modern ones. > And even today, they're made in different cuts -- for the field, and for very formal wear (cut as a tailcoat.) of course, but I meant the ones seen on horseback Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 28 13:27:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09443 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:27:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08064; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:40:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21227 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:39:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21214 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:39:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oup-pc [209.204.83.27] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id ABDE2AB20152; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 14:35:10 -0400 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 14:39:05 -0400 Message-ID: <01BEF163.143DBFC0.vjlyons@snip.net> From: Vince & Kerrie Lyons To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Celtic RennFaire Outfits (Garb snarks, beware!) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 14:38:58 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Vince & Kerrie Lyons Hi all! Oh my, third post in less than a month after ages of lurking, this could get addictive ;-) but this caught my eye.... >> "The Celtic Line." It's your basic fantasy Celtic stuff, >>with a weird front-lacing bodice, but it was attractive and at least has a >>very full skirt. Keep your eye out for more of that look at Renfairs and >>SCA events. My entire family and I are very active at the PA RennFaire, last year we went with run of the mill "wench" and tunic/tights but this year the menfolk are quite insistent on displaying our Irish heritage in their costumes. Thank heavens the PA Faire is very relaxed because accommodating their requests won't make us very authentic. :-) My husband and sons are set on wearing _kilts_ (No problems with showing a little leg with the males in THIS family! Hehe) *sigh* Now, I know this is hardly authentic for an Irish family of the time, but their minds are quite made up and hubby has purchased (alas, modern pleated) kilts for himself and the boys at one of the Faire merchants... I was at wits end as to what to make for the Princess (8 y/o daughter. =) and myself to complement men in kilts, but the Simplicity Celtic pattern looks like it'll fit in well. Now that you're all cringing, I thought I'd ask some advice from the list....is there any hope of scrounging up a shred of period authenticity with this garb or shall I just smile a lot and enjoy the fun? Do *try* to be kind. Cheers! Kerrie -- the bemused, befuddled and hopelessly hormonal Celtic mommy. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 28 13:48:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09473 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:48:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09698; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:02:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA23627 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:01:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA23614 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:01:13 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:01:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 15329 invoked from network); 28 Aug 1999 19:03:00 -0000 Received: from 203.64.3-9.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.203) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 28 Aug 1999 19:03:00 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990828120259.3aff2b5a@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: Celtic RennFaire Outfits (Garb snarks, beware!) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 02:38 PM 8/28/99 -0400, Vince & Kerrie Lyons wrote: > >-Poster: Vince & Kerrie Lyons > >Hi all! > >Oh my, third post in less than a month after ages of lurking, this could >get addictive ;-) [snip] >My husband and sons are set on wearing _kilts_ (No problems with showing a >little leg with the males in THIS family! Hehe) *sigh* Now, I know this is >hardly authentic for an Irish family of the time, but their minds are >quite made up and hubby has purchased (alas, modern pleated) kilts for >himself and the boys at one of the Faire merchants... I was at wits end as >to what to make for the Princess (8 y/o daughter. =) and myself to >complement men in kilts, but the Simplicity Celtic pattern looks like it'll >fit in well. > >Now that you're all cringing, I thought I'd ask some advice from the >list....is there any hope of scrounging up a shred of period authenticity >with this garb or shall I just smile a lot and enjoy the fun? Do *try* to >be kind. > >Cheers! >Kerrie -- the bemused, befuddled and hopelessly hormonal Celtic mommy. Kerrie, Just go and have fun! (the outfits aren't historical, but sound like they should be a hit if you go Irish country dancing!) Not *everything* has to be historically accurate . Just think of it all as a big, outdoor, costume party. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 28 16:48:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09687 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:48:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26040; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:01:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11176 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:00:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11167 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:00:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11KqWX-000Eij-0A for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 22:00:33 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 19:29:07 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Attifet or wired veil In-Reply-To: <199908271634.JAA25559@zeus.directcon.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie I made one of these long, long ago to do a Mary Queen of Scots look. One of the sources I had was pictures of her effigy (and now I've seen a replica of it in the Museum of Scotland). What she is wearing there is definitely something like a caul, a small tight bonnet on the back of her head, with the shaped and wired piece gathered into it at the front. This is approximately what I did. You say the brim is crescent shaped - I made mine gently heart shaped, (well, it curved in at the centre to get the heart-shaped look) with wire through the edge and then lace. I didn't have any problems with the wire. The brim was not made to stick up vertically, but to lie forward over my puffs of hair. The combination of hair shape and brim shape worked very well for me. I used a blouse- weight cotton and light millinery wire. Hope this helps, Jean >-Poster: Margo Anderson > > >>I've used the Winter and Savoy book to create an attifet--heart-shaped hat >>and veil that was popular with Mary Stuart and common during the 1570s. I >>didn't like it, and put it away in hopes of making something better. That >>time has arrived. >> >Me too. The Winters and Savoy pattern doesn't work for me. I've been >working on a mock-up of the crescent shaped attifet brim attached to a caul >(circle gathered onto a band). the problem I've encountered is that the >brim needs to be very stiff. If you just use fabric and put wire in the >edge, it folds back on itself, so the entire brim needs to be stiffened. >Since most of these capps seem to be at least semisheer, interfacing them >doesn't work, and a strong starch solution needs to be used. > >I've been wondering, though, if I'm on the wrong track. I've read references >to "wired veils" Could it be that the wired edge is simply one end of a >veil pinned on *top* of a caul? Has anyone tried it that way? > >Margo Anderson >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 28 21:54:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10096 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 21:54:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20598; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 21:07:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA07217 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 21:05:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vrcgate.suffolk.lib.ny.us (vrcgate.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.91.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07210 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 21:05:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bchamber (pool169.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.93.169]) by vrcgate.suffolk.lib.ny.us (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA22979 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:08:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000901bef1cb$4bfa42e0$a95dadc7@bchamber> From: "Beth" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: premie clothing etc. - O.T. Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:05:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEF1A9.C38FC9A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Beth" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEF1A9.C38FC9A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01BEF1A9.C38FC9A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01BEF1A9.C38FC9A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Somehow I missed the original posting so I don't quite know what was = needed. If anyone needs preemie patterns, or is looking for a community = service project for their kids and/or themselves check out Care Wear. = They provide sewing, knitting, and crochet patterns for preemies. They = also act as a network for distribution of finished projects as well as = any raw materials they receive as donations. If you are considering = "cleaning" you sewing stash remember organizations like this - you only = need a little yarn to make a preemie hat and donations are tax = deductible. Care Wear was started, and is coordinated by Bonnie = Hagerman, Executive Director for Academic Services at Hood College in = Frederick, Maryland. (Pardon that shameless plug for my alma matter, but = it is a wonderful institution and Mrs. Hagerman was one of my favorite = professors.) http://www.hood.edu/carewear/ Beth ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01BEF1A9.C38FC9A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Somehow I missed the original posting so I don't = quite know=20 what was needed. If anyone needs preemie patterns, or is looking for a = community=20 service project for their kids and/or themselves check out Care Wear. = They=20 provide sewing, knitting, and crochet patterns for preemies. They also = act as a=20 network for distribution of finished projects as well as any raw = materials they=20 receive as donations. If you are considering "cleaning" you sewing stash = remember organizations like this - you only need a little yarn to make a = preemie=20 hat and donations are tax deductible. Care Wear was started, and is = coordinated=20 by Bonnie Hagerman, Executive Director for Academic Services at Hood = College in=20 Frederick, Maryland. (Pardon that shameless plug for my alma = matter, but it=20 is a wonderful institution and Mrs. Hagerman was one of my favorite=20 professors.)

 http://www.hood.edu/carewear/<= /DIV>
 
 
Beth
------=_NextPart_001_0006_01BEF1A9.C38FC9A0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEF1A9.C38FC9A0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Careware.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Careware.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://www.hood.edu/carewear/ [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.hood.edu/carewear/ Modified=A0213C54C9F1BE01CA ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BEF1A9.C38FC9A0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 28 23:04:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10211 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:04:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28037; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 22:17:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA13410 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 22:16:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13397 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 22:16:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-6.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FH700GAQL7KTE@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:16:35 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:15:09 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Tartan/Kilt To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <37C8B3CD.C13EA313@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199908290305.VAA07272@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson owner-h-costume-digest@indra.com wrote: > > From: Leslie Helms > Marc asked: Does the existance of "tartan" = "kilt"? > > No, not in most of what I've seen. Unfortunately the terminology is >flakey... Which is pretty much what I understood the case to be. Checked cloth seems pretty well documented in the medieval finds at least. > for all we can prove. The kilt, primarily a wrapped garment, does not show > up well in archeological finds. What would you find? A rather long piece of uncut fabric (say 6'+ x 25" or so) would be fairly obvious. If nothing else that would be a LOT of fabrics scraps. But the fact that there haven't been a lot of this sorts of finds (at least that I know of) doesn't mean that there weren't any. There's always the old standby of "that much material would never be allowed to go to waste..." > combinations? Yes, I know the clan tartans came much later, but some of > them were based on tradition, and that's what I'm looking into. I'm afraid not. A great number of them (starting with the various Campbells) do appear to be derived from the old "government tartan"... ========= > From: Melanie Wilson > No of course not, but it is an element of kilt, ie you don't get kilt > without tartan so tartan preceeds kilt my dear ! I'll remember that when looking at Sumerian and Egyptian artwork... > However on the rash assumption the original poster was looking for > acxcurate information on early highland/scottish dress I suggested the best > ref on that I know. Note EARLY, there are other very good refs for later > kilts etc. Oh, I know. I wasn't slamming your suggested source - just pointing out the fallacy in assuming that checky-cloth means kilts, which is what I assumed the poster was asking about. > Also the great kilt & the small kilt are two different things and may well > have originated from an earlier form, which may or may not be mentioned in > this book, I can't remember. Obviously something inspired somebody to wear > a blanket around their waist, they didn't all spontaneously do it for no > reason . THe tartan was worn as a mantle though earlier & this is roughly > the same size as the GK, so presumable it followed from there after all > Great kilts are hardy a great work of tailoring. And big bits of cloth are > used for many styles of clothing across many cultures eg Saris, peplos, > toga, tube dress etc. That's why it's impossible to prove they *weren't* worn. The poster was wanting (I thought) proof they WERE worn, which is different. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 28 23:04:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10207 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:04:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27838; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 22:16:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA13266 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 22:15:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13255 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 22:15:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05154 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:15:11 -0400 Message-ID: <37C8B3CF.F9E1261B@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:15:20 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Joseph Strutt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue I've spent the evening reading through the accounts of The Privy Purse Expenses of Elizabeth of York: The Wardrobe Accounts of Edward IV. http://www.r3.org/bookcase/wardrobe/ward1.html and found it really interesting. The footnotes & glossary are very useful, and frequently mention Strutt (as does Hunnisett in her books.) My question is: do any of you know if he's been reprinted recently? I want to find a copy. If not, time to trot down to my library and make friends with the ILL person.... Full title: A complete view of the dress and habits of the people of England: from the establishment of the Saxons in Britain to the present time (published around 1830.) Thanks, cv -- Quit shedding skin all over the back seat! Ouch, don't bite me! Hey, stop hissing in my ear! -- St. Patrick driving the snakes out of Ireland -- Mother Goose & Grimm/Mike Peters _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Aug 28 23:52:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10286 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:52:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02218; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:06:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA17394 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:05:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17381 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA08708 for ; Sat, 28 Aug 1999 23:13:25 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA16866 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:08:32 -0500 Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:08:32 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: Re: H-COST: Joseph Strutt In-Reply-To: <37C8B3CF.F9E1261B@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Cynthia Virtue wrote: > Full title: > A complete view of the dress and habits of the people of England: from > the establishment of the Saxons in Britain to the present time > (published around 1830.) Strutt's original costume book was published in 1796, and is of special note because it was the first comprehensive history of English costume, ever. Strutt was an antiquarian, with prior books on the history of other decorative arts, games, customs, etc. His costume book is surprisingly good when you consider that he was breaking completely new ground. He certainly was looking directly at his sources -- artwork, manuscripts, written materials. Since books at this time did not have photos, he re-drew images in great detail for the engravings, and did a fairly good job, though his figures betray some of the aesthetics of his period. For decades, other authors copied Strutt, down to re-drawing his images without credit. Alas, these other authors apparently did not have the access to the original manuscripts etc., and their artwork (and their interpretations) take the material a step or more further from the original. When you compare later authors' redrawings to Strutt's, and then to the original manuscripts, the differences are quite obvious and often significant (e.g. placement of seams, layering of pieces, decoration). This is one reason Victorian costume references are so unreliable. (Can you tell I've lectured on this? It makes for an eye-opening slide show.) I can't remember the last time I saw Strutt's original 1796 edition -- I think in the Newberry Library in Chicago. I don't know offhand about an 1830 edition. However, there's an 1842 edition in some libraries, and I've seen it in open stacks at least once (which surprised me). Bear in mind, however, that this is actually the revised edition of Strutt, edited by James Robinson Planche. Planche was a specialist in heraldry, pageantry and costume for the theatrical community; he also advised Queen Victoria (he designed many of the costumes for her Plantagenet ball, including hers and Albert's). Planche's knowledge and understanding of medieval dress is quintessentially Victorian, and his interpretations tend to betray his own suppositions, knowledge of construction methods, aesthetics, etc. -- though he may have been the best his period of scholarship had to offer. If you read Strutt in this edition, be aware that many of the extensive footnotes are Planche's. I'm not sure how many liberties Planche took with Strutt's text, but I wouldn't trust him not to have tinkered. (He actually called it the "new and improved edition.") Planche wrote several costume histories of his own, the chief one being published around, hmm, 1834 I think, and revised in 1847 and 1881. (I'm going from incomplete notes, as most of my sources are still packed from my recent move.) I've found the 1881 edition in open stacks in several university libraries. When I'm trying to track down the origin of something I suspect is a costume myth, I start with Strutt and Planche -- and then move forward and back, as needed, to figure out who quoted whom, what their sources were, and where the ideas got garbled along the way. One thing Strutt and Planche are both very useful for is written quotes -- snatches of poems, plays, histories, etc. that mention costume. (Strutt quotes Chaucer and Stubbes extensively, among others.) I know I haven't had time to comb through the massive body of medieval literature for the clothing references, but Strutt and certain people who followed him obviously took a lot of time to collect quotes. Their interpretations of the quoted material may be questionable, but the original cites are invaluable. When I use these, I try to follow those citations back to the originals, just to be sure of the context and translation. Somewhere (in a box) I have one of the Cunningtons' costume overviews -- a thin book with a red dust jacket -- which I bought because it had a lot of pictures of historic art. I remember looking at some of the drawings and thinking, "hmmm, there's something odd about this one, the people don't look quite right, and the art technique doesn't look medieval," but the book claimed they were from "a 14th century manuscript" (or whatever). Turns out the Cunningtons didn't reproduce the actual medieval images -- they reprinted some of Strutt's redrawings of them, and did not note that they were doing so. I discovered this only after I had seen a copy of Strutt and compared them. Now that I know Strutt's style, I can recognize it when I run across it. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 06:30:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07077 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 06:30:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19643; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 05:40:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA01060 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 05:39:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from escambia.se.mediaone.net (escambia.se.mediaone.net [24.129.0.53]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01051 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 05:39:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.se.mediaone.net (tamw74-98.pompano.net [24.129.74.98]) by escambia.se.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA03680 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 07:39:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andy Oppenheim" To: "costume list" Subject: H-COST: canvas Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 07:38:01 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andy Oppenheim" does anyone know of an inexpensive source for 10 oz cotton duct or similar weight? Andy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 07:43:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07123 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 07:43:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23831; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 06:58:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05630 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 06:56:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05624 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 06:56:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05577 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 08:56:26 -0400 Message-ID: <37C92DFA.5F1DAA08@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 08:56:55 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Joseph Strutt References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Wow -- lots of info; thanks, Robin! Grainne sent me some citations -- the Planche version was reprinted in 1970 by Tabard Press of London. > One thing Strutt and Planche are both very useful for is written quotes -- > snatches of poems, plays, histories, etc. that mention costume. Ya, that's what I'm mostly after. The documentation for hat construction of 1400-1480 is so thin, I figured looking in text accounts is the next logical step. The wardrobe accounts I mentioned in my earlier post (1480 and 1502) have lots of info on silks, velvets, other fine fabrics, furred garments, chair-cushion fabric and whatnots, but only about three solid entries on hats per se. One mentions "hats of wool" for men, the two mention "bonnets" from the "silkwoman" for the Queen and retainers, and there are one or two mentions of "frontlets" which is glossed as part of a headdress arrangement (forehead bands of velvets and gold), but no details in the text. The 1480 account mentions Ostrich feathers, which I found interesting, but not what they were used for (male hat decoration, I would guess, but could be horse-decoration.) I still have many online sources to read through; I hope to find yet earlier ones, but Strutt would help. Off to the Library! ...Some interesting things, such as making the pages run all over town to bring (presumably forgotten) clothing from the other residences: Itm....the xxvij{ti} day of Novembre [1502] to Richard Justice page of the robys for his costes going from Westminster to London in the nyght for a gowne of blewe velvet for the Quene and for his bote hyere viij d. Itm for conveyeng alle the Quenes lyned gownys from Westminster to London by water and for mens labour that bare the same gownys to the water and from the water v d. Itm for bringing the Quenes furred gownys from London to Westminster and for mens labours that bare the same to and from the water v d. Itm for his costes from Westminster to London to take the remaynes of suche stuf as remaineth there iiij d. Itm for going from Westminster to London for vij yerdes quarter di of blake damaske and for a frontlet of golde for the Quene iiij d. and for maing a newe key to the grete standard being in the warderobe of the robys and for mending of boeth lokkes to the same vj d. Sm{a} ----------ij s. viij d. And lots of different velvets: [1480] For crimson velvet of Mountpelier in Gascony at xiiij s. and xx s. the yard; for black velvet; black velvet speckled with white; "blue velvet figured with tawny;" white velvet; white velvet with black spots; tawny velvet; "motley velvet;" "chekkerd velvet;" "grene chaungeable velvet;" "velvet purpull ray [striped] and white;" "velvet russet figury;" "velvet cremysyn figured with white;" at viij s. the yard. My notes from this site (copy & paste into word processor) are 30+ pages, it's so full of fabric & clothing info. -- Quit shedding skin all over the back seat! Ouch, don't bite me! Hey, stop hissing in my ear! -- St. Patrick driving the snakes out of Ireland -- Mother Goose & Grimm/Mike Peters _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 08:05:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07163 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 08:05:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25546; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 07:20:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07315 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 07:19:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07309 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 07:19:16 -0600 (MDT) From: sustre@pixelations.com Received: from [209.244.227.122] (dialup-209.244.227.122.Boston2.Level3.net [209.244.227.122]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA06727 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 06:19:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: amanda@pixelations.com (Unverified) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:23:09 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: looking for cheap cotton solids Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: sustre@pixelations.com Someone who works in Wal-mart's fabric section told me that they would be getting regular supplies of $1 and $2/yd fabrics from now on. Mostly dreadful coy prints, at mine anyway, but CHEAP enough for making muslins with abandon! -Amanda who only really feels happy using hideous and cheap fabric for muslins... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 09:40:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07237 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:40:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02457; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 08:55:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA15022 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 08:54:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from cdale3.midwest.net (cdale3.midwest.net [208.235.1.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15016 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 08:54:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from talk2meg.midwest.net (johnstoncity1.midwest.net [208.235.11.139]) by cdale3.midwest.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA28492 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:56:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199908291456.JAA28492@cdale3.midwest.net> From: "Mary-Gayle Jany" To: Subject: H-COST: maybe OT--Christening gowns Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:47:46 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Mary-Gayle Jany" Mornin', y'all. I'm momentarily out of lurking mode and looking for help, please. I would appreciate any help I can get concerning the following questions, including remote references: Where and in what time period and/or location did putting babies in the extremely long, ornate, white gowns for their Christenings begin? Perhaps OT but....which came first--the stories of fairy godmothers (of which I've traced similar stories in all European, Scandanavian, and Slavic countries as far as I know how) or the custom of children being represented at their Christenings by a human godmother figure? (What would seem the logical answer has become quite convoluted in my findings.) Are there any reliable sources discussing this topic *anywhere*? If I've overstepped the list's definitions of costuming, please forgive and/or answer privately. Thanks in advance. Meg _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 09:59:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07248 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:59:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04105; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:14:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16446 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:13:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16435 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:13:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA06272 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 17:13:16 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp205-209.worldonline.nl [195.241.205.209]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA03577 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 17:13:14 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199908291513.RAA03577@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Joseph Strutt Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 16:26:38 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands ---------- Hi all, Cynthia wrote: > ...Some interesting things, such as making the pages run all over town > to bring (presumably forgotten) clothing from the other residences: > > Itm....the xxvij{ti} day of Novembre [1502] to Richard Justice page of > the robys for his costes going from Westminster to London in the nyght > for a gowne of blewe velvet for the Quene and for his bote hyere viij d. > Itm for conveyeng alle the Quenes lyned gownys from Westminster to > London by water and for mens labour that bare the same gownys to the > water and from the water v d. Itm for bringing the Quenes furred gownys > from London to Westminster and for mens labours that bare the same to > and from the water v d. Itm for his costes from Westminster to London to > take the remaynes of suche stuf as remaineth there iiij d. Itm for going > from Westminster to London for vij yerdes quarter di of blake damaske > and for a frontlet of golde for the Quene iiij d. and for maing a newe > key to the grete standard being in the warderobe of the robys and for > mending of boeth lokkes to the same vj d. Sm{a} ----------ij s. viij d. > This does not seem the case; the running all over town, I mean, if the above citation is what she referring to. The royal palace closest to London (which had the Tower, but that was no real palace) was at Westminster, next to the still existing Westminster Abbey. The large Hall (well worth visiting!) of this palace in incorporated in the Houses of Parliament which cover part of the area of the same palace. The Wardrobe, however, was situated in the City of London, about halfway between the Tower and the palace of Westminster. The Wardrobe was no costume-closet but a set of buildings round a yard in which (among other things) the royal plate, accessories and clothing were kept when they were not needed. Every spring and autumn in a flurry of activity servants moved summer and winter clothes from palace to wardrobe and vice versa. If you are in London you might do worse than to visit, besides Westminster Hall, Wardrobe Place off Carter Lane, just south of St Pauls. The little yard is very picturesque and Carter Lane is a street, renewed after the 1666 fire, on the original medieval plan, and gives an impression of late 17th c London (if you think away modern high rises in the neighbourhood). Incidentally: the College of Arms is just around the corner in a lovely 17th c building around a fore court in Upper Thames Street. If you ask nicely, they let you visit the hall. Well worth it. Henk > And lots of different velvets: > > [1480] For crimson velvet of Mountpelier in Gascony at xiiij s. and xx > s. the yard; for black velvet; black velvet speckled with white; "blue > velvet figured with tawny;" white velvet; white velvet with black spots; > tawny velvet; "motley velvet;" "chekkerd velvet;" "grene chaungeable > velvet;" "velvet purpull ray [striped] and white;" "velvet russet > figury;" "velvet cremysyn figured with white;" at viij s. the yard. > > My notes from this site (copy & paste into word processor) are 30+ > pages, it's so full of fabric & clothing info. > > -- > Quit shedding skin all over the back seat! Ouch, don't bite me! Hey, > stop hissing in my ear! -- St. Patrick driving the snakes out of > Ireland -- Mother Goose & Grimm/Mike Peters > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 10:51:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07292 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:51:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08096; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:06:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20901 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:05:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20892 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:05:16 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EJ7XJ97S; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:04:41 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:58:57 -0500 Subject: H-COST: Wardrobe Place Message-ID: <19990829.105912.-410531.1.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 12-14 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com I was in London just this last February and much to my dismay, I found that Wardrobe Place is in the middle of being redeveloped. The lovely and picturesque courtyard which I found on my first few trips to London is now being torn down and built up with what I expect will be nasty modern buildings. You can't even really go into the courtyard because it is a construction site and you need permission and safety gear. St. Andrews-by-Wardrobe, a church just next door, had a photographic display of some of the urban archeology which was done just as the 17th-18th century buildings were being torn down and which show some of the remains of the old Wardrobe which were found under them. All that is probably covered up with modern excressences by now. The Old City is still worth a look-see if you want a flavor of Old London. They haven't ruined everything....yet........ Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 10:56:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07296 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:56:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08662; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:11:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21369 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:09:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21364 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:09:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-61-194.s194.tnt1.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.61.194]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA07499 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:09:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005701bef238$a291b120$c23daccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <199908291456.JAA28492@cdale3.midwest.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: maybe OT--Christening gowns Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:07:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Hi Meg, I have seen originals from the ACW period. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com > Where and in what time period and/or location did putting babies in > the extremely long, ornate, white gowns for their Christenings begin? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 11:13:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07309 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:13:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10113; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:28:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA22947 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:27:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22926 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:27:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11L7nI-0000mN-0A for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 16:27:01 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 17:26:00 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Celtic RennFaire Outfits (Garb snarks, beware!) In-Reply-To: <01BEF163.143DBFC0.vjlyons@snip.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie > >-Poster: Vince & Kerrie Lyons > >Hi all! > >Oh my, third post in less than a month after ages of lurking, this could >get addictive ;-) but this caught my eye.... > >>> "The Celtic Line." It's your basic fantasy Celtic stuff, >>>with a weird front-lacing bodice, but it was attractive and at least has >a >>>very full skirt. Keep your eye out for more of that look at Renfairs and >>>SCA events. > >My entire family and I are very active at the PA RennFaire, last year we >went with run of the mill "wench" and tunic/tights but this year the >menfolk are quite insistent on displaying our Irish heritage in their >costumes. Thank heavens the PA Faire is very relaxed because accommodating >their requests won't make us very authentic. :-) > >My husband and sons are set on wearing _kilts_ (No problems with showing a >little leg with the males in THIS family! Hehe) *sigh* Now, I know this is >hardly authentic for an Irish family of the time, but their minds are >quite made up and hubby has purchased (alas, modern pleated) kilts for >himself and the boys at one of the Faire merchants... I was at wits end as >to what to make for the Princess (8 y/o daughter. =) and myself to >complement men in kilts, but the Simplicity Celtic pattern looks like it'll >fit in well. > >Now that you're all cringing, I thought I'd ask some advice from the >list....is there any hope of scrounging up a shred of period authenticity >with this garb or shall I just smile a lot and enjoy the fun? Do *try* to >be kind. > >Cheers! >Kerrie -- the bemused, befuddled and hopelessly hormonal Celtic mommy. > I hope you have lots of fun, and don't have to spend too much time explaining that you are Irish, not Scottish. This is something that really puzzles me - a serious question here: Why do people associate tartan with Ireland? (especially Americans, if you'll pardon me. I am bemused by the amount of tartan on display at St Patrick's Day parades) Modern Irish pipers and male dancers wear the plain saffron kilt with a green jacket, and female dancers wear those gorgeous embroidered dresses, also usually green. Anything that proclaims itself Scottish associates itself with tartan and thistles, but Irish Republicanism is always green, never tartan. Is there any evidence for tartan being worn in Ireland in centuries past,and if so, how come it fell out of use so completely? Any ideas? Jean -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 11:25:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07316 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:25:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10820; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:40:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23827 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:39:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from duval.se.mediaone.net (duval.se.mediaone.net [24.129.0.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23818 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 10:39:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.se.mediaone.net (tamw74-98.pompano.net [24.129.74.98]) by duval.se.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA11843 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:38:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andy Oppenheim" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: looking for cheap cotton solids Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:36:57 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andy Oppenheim" I regularly go to wal-mart and never have a problem finding great solids for skirts and some wonderful solids. In fact if you want I have a scanned pic I did of a tunic I did with $1 dollar fabric. The key is to call and ask when their truck comes in. when it does call and ask the fabric dept what they got in. Andy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 12:22:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07338 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:22:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15703; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:37:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA28949 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:36:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.alltel.net (mail.alltel.net [166.102.165.30]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28942 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:36:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (r-52.66.alltel.net [166.102.52.66]) by mail.alltel.net (8.9.3/ALLTEL Messaging Service) with ESMTP id MAA13490 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:36:05 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37C96F72.41C08196@alltel.net> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:35:46 -0400 From: "jmhr@alltel.net" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Christening gowns X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "jmhr@alltel.net" "The first examples of Christening gowns also date from the 1750s and 1760s.. Previously, a bearing cloth had been wrapped around the swaddled child for the duration of the ceremony." Children's Clothes, Clare Rose, 1989. "In the prayer book of Edward VI (1549), the minister is driected to dress the baby n the robe with these words: 'Take this white vesture for a token of the innocencie, whiche by Gods grace in this holy sacramente of baptisme, is given unto thee." A Book of Christenings, Christina Walkley, 1987. "One of Mary Thresher's [1698] mantles may have been a christening mantle. The 'Rich White Sattain Mantle lined with Sarsnet with Cape and Sleeves of the same'...were probably for the child's christening." Clothes and the Child, Anne Buck, 1996 "An inventory of the christening garments of a child in the seventeenth century reads thus:--lined white satin cap...white satin palm...deep cuffs of white satin" Costume in America, Alice Morse Earle, 1903/repr1970 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 12:29:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07342 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:29:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16303; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:44:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29665 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:43:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.alltel.net (mail.alltel.net [166.102.165.30]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29657 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:43:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (r-52.66.alltel.net [166.102.52.66]) by mail.alltel.net (8.9.3/ALLTEL Messaging Service) with ESMTP id MAA19406 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:43:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37C97138.60E57E09@alltel.net> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:43:20 -0400 From: "jmhr@alltel.net" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Christening gowns/fairy godmothers X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "jmhr@alltel.net" The book by Walkley that I just mentioned should have been listed as "Welcome Sweet Babe - A Book of Christenings." It has a brief chapter on folklore, as well as several references to godparents, that might help with your question. Melissa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 12:35:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07376 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 12:35:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16947; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:50:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00442 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:49:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA00436 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:49:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908291749.LAA00436@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 11766 invoked from network); 29 Aug 1999 11:49:13 -0600 Received: from ts26-37.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.151) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 29 Aug 1999 11:49:13 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Joseph Strutt Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 11:55:33 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" I searched for the Strutt books on Bibliofind.com. There were several, priced $900.00 to $1500.00. OUCH!!!! Kathlene ---------- > From: Henk 't Jong > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Joseph Strutt > Date: Sunday, August 29, 1999 8:26 AM > > > -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" > > Henk & Pauline 't Jong > tScapreel > Medieval Advisors > Dordrecht, Netherlands > > ---------- > Hi all, > > Cynthia wrote: > > ...Some interesting things, such as making the pages run all over town > > to bring (presumably forgotten) clothing from the other residences: > > > > Itm....the xxvij{ti} day of Novembre [1502] to Richard Justice page of > > the robys for his costes going from Westminster to London in the nyght > > for a gowne of blewe velvet for the Quene and for his bote hyere viij d. > > Itm for conveyeng alle the Quenes lyned gownys from Westminster to > > London by water and for mens labour that bare the same gownys to the > > water and from the water v d. Itm for bringing the Quenes furred gownys > > from London to Westminster and for mens labours that bare the same to > > and from the water v d. Itm for his costes from Westminster to London to > > take the remaynes of suche stuf as remaineth there iiij d. Itm for going > > from Westminster to London for vij yerdes quarter di of blake damaske > > and for a frontlet of golde for the Quene iiij d. and for maing a newe > > key to the grete standard being in the warderobe of the robys and for > > mending of boeth lokkes to the same vj d. Sm{a} ----------ij s. viij d. > > > This does not seem the case; the running all over town, I mean, if the > above citation is what she referring to. The royal palace closest to London > (which had the Tower, but that was no real palace) was at Westminster, next > to the still existing Westminster Abbey. The large Hall (well worth > visiting!) of this palace in incorporated in the Houses of Parliament which > cover part of the area of the same palace. The Wardrobe, however, was > situated in the City of London, about halfway between the Tower and the > palace of Westminster. The Wardrobe was no costume-closet but a set of > buildings round a yard in which (among other things) the royal plate, > accessories and clothing were kept when they were not needed. Every spring > and autumn in a flurry of activity servants moved summer and winter clothes > from palace to wardrobe and vice versa. If you are in London you might do > worse than to visit, besides Westminster Hall, Wardrobe Place off Carter > Lane, just south of St Pauls. The little yard is very picturesque and > Carter Lane is a street, renewed after the 1666 fire, on the original > medieval plan, and gives an impression of late 17th c London (if you think > away modern high rises in the neighbourhood). Incidentally: the College of > Arms is just around the corner in a lovely 17th c building around a fore > court in Upper Thames Street. If you ask nicely, they let you visit the > hall. Well worth it. > > Henk > > > > And lots of different velvets: > > > > [1480] For crimson velvet of Mountpelier in Gascony at xiiij s. and xx > > s. the yard; for black velvet; black velvet speckled with white; "blue > > velvet figured with tawny;" white velvet; white velvet with black spots; > > tawny velvet; "motley velvet;" "chekkerd velvet;" "grene chaungeable > > velvet;" "velvet purpull ray [striped] and white;" "velvet russet > > figury;" "velvet cremysyn figured with white;" at viij s. the yard. > > > > My notes from this site (copy & paste into word processor) are 30+ > > pages, it's so full of fabric & clothing info. > > > > -- > > Quit shedding skin all over the back seat! Ouch, don't bite me! Hey, > > stop hissing in my ear! -- St. Patrick driving the snakes out of > > Ireland -- Mother Goose & Grimm/Mike Peters > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 14:20:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07449 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:20:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24509; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:33:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10447 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:31:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10441 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:31:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oup-pc [209.204.82.189] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A9AA1CA100D2; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 15:27:38 -0400 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 15:31:32 -0400 Message-ID: <01BEF233.9238C340.vjlyons@snip.net> From: Vince & Kerrie Lyons To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Celtic RennFaire Outfits (Garb snarks, beware!) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 15:31:23 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Vince & Kerrie Lyons >-Poster: Jean Waddie >wrote: > >I hope you have lots of fun, and don't have to spend too much time >explaining that you are Irish, not Scottish. This is something that >really puzzles me - a serious question here: >Why do people associate tartan with Ireland? (especially Americans, >if >you'll pardon me. I am bemused by the amount of tartan on display at >St >Patrick's Day parades) Modern Irish pipers and male dancers wear the >plain saffron kilt with a green jacket, and female dancers wear those >gorgeous embroidered dresses, also usually green. Anything that >proclaims itself Scottish associates itself with tartan and thistles, >but Irish Republicanism is always green, never tartan. >Is there any evidence for tartan being worn in Ireland in centuries >past,and if so, how come it fell out of use so completely? Any ideas? Actually, I've rather resigned myself to being mistaken for Scottish in this get-up! ;-) As for the Irish Tartan, there are several today, including a new "Irish National Tartan" which was very recently adapted. The tartan in Ireland represents the counties as opposed to the individual clan patterns of the Scottish. As I understand the history, the most ancient tartan patterns didn't commonly appear in Ireland until the very late 1600's, having gained in popularity slowly through the century, backed by Irishmen who admired the bright patterns of their Scottish friends and neighbours, and these were used more for the brat than the kilt. The Ryan & O'Carroll's (my local supplier) website notes a very brief history of the discovery of these early Irish colours, along with samples of their modern re-creations. http://www.irishtartans.com/tartans.html There's also a mention of historical Irish tartan at http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Earlyirl.htm under "decoration" (quite a nice site for novices such as myself--everything clearly explained and documented!) Please keep in mind though, my severely limited information on this subject comes more from being a native than from actually being knowledgeable. ;-) Enjoy! Kerrie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 14:40:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07480 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:40:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26145; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12533 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:53:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from trojan.troyst.edu (trojan.troyst.edu [198.179.130.45]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA12527 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:53:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [198.179.130.10] by trojan.troyst.edu (AIX 4.1/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA41420; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:40:52 -0500 Message-Id: <37C9B6F1.43F09138@trojan.troyst.edu> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 15:40:51 -0700 From: john patton X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win16; I) Mime-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: maybe OT--Christening gowns References: <199908291456.JAA28492@cdale3.midwest.net> <005701bef238$a291b120$c23daccf@e4c2n6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: john patton Penny Ladnier wrote: I have seen originals from the ACW period. What, pray tell, is the "ACW period"? John _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 18:41:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07953 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:41:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18987; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 17:56:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05745 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 17:54:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05739 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 17:54:01 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6CQSa24004 (4231) for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:53:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:53:16 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: maybe OT--Christening gowns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Hi, Meg, There is a white batiste christening gown, early 19th century featured in January 1999 calendar, Historic Fashions of Women & Children. Gown was worn by children in the Manigault family of Charleston, South Carolina and belongs to The Charleston Museum. Gown was possibly worn by Ann Manigault (1803-1864) -- hard to date since many of the gowns were traditional in style. Sally Costume Calendar Series http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 18:48:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08003 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:48:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19643; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:03:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA06497 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:02:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06489 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:02:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-61-194.s194.tnt1.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.61.194]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA28346 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:02:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00c001bef27a$9743fde0$c23daccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <199908291456.JAA28492@cdale3.midwest.net> <005701bef238$a291b120$c23daccf@e4c2n6> <37C9B6F1.43F09138@trojan.troyst.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: maybe OT--Christening gowns Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:59:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" American Civil War > What, pray tell, is the "ACW period"? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 19:58:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08256 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:58:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25095; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:13:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13582 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:12:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from cdale3.midwest.net (cdale3.midwest.net [208.235.1.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13569 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:12:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from talk2meg.midwest.net (johnstoncity42.midwest.net [208.235.11.180]) by cdale3.midwest.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id UAA17073 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:15:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199908300115.UAA17073@cdale3.midwest.net> From: "Mary-Gayle Jany" To: Subject: H-COST: more--Christening gown Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:07:18 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Mary-Gayle Jany" I can always trust this list for being prompt and helpful with inforamtion when I do come out of lurk mode. These references give me a start. THANKS! : ) Melissa, yours is the earliest reference so far. Thanks! I'll look for the Walkley book. In the meantime, do you have any further references from the book? They could be very helpful to me. Edward VI (Henry VIII's only surviving son) was born on October 12, 1537. That he would wear a christening gown at 12 yrs old seems unlikely, but that age would certainly fit a modern equivalent for Confirmation. Of course, the prayer book might have been written when Edward VI was twelve years old and what was said prior to his christening was reported belatedly in the 1549 prayer book. Can you tell from the material surrounding the Walkley book's quote? Hey, Penny...good to 'see' you! Where have you seen the ACW gowns? Are they currently on display? Can you remember any details such as whether they were embroidered and if so, how much and with what? (BTW, your web site is looking TOTALLY professional, milady. Many compliments....) Sally, was the Manigault family originally from France as the name seems to indicate? My baby son is currently working in Williamsburg, VA and could *possibly* find a copy of the calendar if you know where he can check. If anyone else has additional information, please join in. Meg _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 20:24:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08305 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:24:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27406; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:39:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA16054 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:38:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16044 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:38:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (p39.a3.du.radix.net [207.192.130.39]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA08745 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:38:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.0.1.19990829211316.010413b0@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:38:11 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: H-COST: Kilts & Tartan in Medieval Period In-Reply-To: <199908280254_MC2-82A8-8A9F@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin + Mara Riley >-Poster: Melanie Wilson (snip) >Also the great kilt & the small kilt are two different things and may well >have originated from an earlier form, which may or may not be mentioned in >this book, I can't remember. Obviously something inspired somebody to wear >a blanket around their waist, they didn't all spontaneously do it for no >reason . THe tartan was worn as a mantle though earlier & this is roughly >the same size as the GK, so presumable it followed from there after all >Great kilts are hardy a great work of tailoring. And big bits of cloth are >used for many styles of clothing across many cultures eg Saris, peplos, >toga, tube dress etc. > >Mel (grin) I can answer that -- they started belting their cloaks up around the waist because it would get awfully wet if they were walking through the heathery moors and abundant streams with it unbelted! Form follows function, IMNSHO. Writers also remarked that the Scottish Highlanders' shoes sometimes had slits in them, to allow water to escape. So it was a pretty wet environment. It makes much more sense to have one's lower legs unclothed if they're getting wet constantly; you can always dry your legs off quickly, but woolen trews take a lot longer to dry out. I think we need to define some terms here. Tartan = the checked weave of the cloth. Checked cloth of various sorts is very ancient, dating to the 5th century BC and before, and was not confined strictly to peoples of Celtic origins -- there are examples from the Tocharian culture (an Indo-European people that made it as far east as Western China) and, I think, the Scythians are said to have worn checked fabrics. The Thorsberg Mantle (found in Norway or Sweden, I forget which) was blue/white checked fabric. These other cultures seem ultimately to have abandoned the more elaborate forms of checked fabric weaves, whereas the Scots kept them. Plaid = the blanket made of tartan cloth, worn as a great kilt (men) or arisaidh (women). The plaid could also be of plain material (blue, grey, brown, etc), as well as tartan. Great kilt = the plaid, belted around the waist and pinned over the shoulder (usually), as worn by men. The great kilt seems to have originated around 1500, since there are no documentable examples or mentions of it any earlier. The smaller kilt seems, by all accounts, to have originated in the 18th century. Cheers, Mara Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 20:25:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08309 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:25:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27479; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:40:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA16070 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:38:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16056 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:38:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (p39.a3.du.radix.net [207.192.130.39]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA08755 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:38:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.0.1.19990829211123.0103b100@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:38:17 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: H-COST: Request Reliable Documentation for Kilts in the Medieval Period In-Reply-To: <199908280254_MC2-82A8-8AA1@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin + Mara Riley At 02:54 AM 08/28/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: Melanie Wilson > >>to look like movies and their fantasies of what medieval Scots looked like >- - which is thier >option. > >The thing to remember is being Scots dosen't mean being a highlander ie not >all Scots ARE highlanders, certainly Wallis wasn't neither were many of the >'heros' of Scotlands past. > >Tartan fabric, but not tartan specific to a clan is recorded far back. The >wearing of large pieces of fabric is common in many cultures, which at the >end of the day is all a great kilt is, doubles nicely as a blanket. So on >the assumption that the tartan fabric came out as a large piece of fabric, >that was probably worn in some form ! Probably more cloak or mantle like . > Also you are looking at highlanders when you look for kilts really >remember. Then there is the movment of Scots & Irish mixed in there too. >but the saffron shirt is more significant here. and whilst NOT a kilt has >lower pleats where a kilt might be, thus possibily inspiring the pleats of >the kilt later on ? > >Mel No, Mel, it's pretty clear from reading McClintock that the pleated kilt is basically the plaid (a large cloak/blanket, called in earlier Gaelic the 'brat'), belted up around the waist. The leine might fall in folds, but it was NOT pleated, so far as I've been able to determine. Regards, Mara Kevin + Mara Riley Home Page http://www.radix.net/~lindo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 21:31:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08506 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:31:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05071; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:46:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA22914 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:44:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22909 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:44:48 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip83.van25.pacifier.com [216.65.139.83]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id TAA12908 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:44:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908300244.TAA12908@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:48:46 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: more--Christening gown Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199908300115.UAA17073@cdale3.midwest.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com Re: the prayer book of Edward the VI. > Of course, the prayer book might > have been written when Edward VI was twelve years old and what was said > prior to his christening was reported belatedly in the 1549 prayer book. The prayer book was the first book of common prayer sponsored by Edward VI when he became king. It is the book which all the country was to use for their devotions and ceremonies. It is the book which was the foundation of the Anglican church and portions of it are still being used. I suspect that it had nothing to do with E6's christening so much as stating what the christenings for the entire country were to be like (since they weren't to do the "popish" ones in previous use.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 21:40:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08515 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:40:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06488; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:55:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23904 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:54:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23895 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 20:54:33 -0600 (MDT) From: HighlndLss@aol.com Received: from HighlndLss@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6FJZa01988 (3980) for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:53:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3d40e205.24fb4c46@aol.com> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:53:58 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Request Reliable Documentation for Kilts in the Medieval Period To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: HighlndLss@aol.com It was mentioned >but the saffron shirt is more significant here. I know that everyone has something to say about the kilt, plaid, tartan, thread, as well as quoting McClintock and Dunbar, who are truly the only research that we have on this time. But there has been some speculation about the saffron shirt situation. Some things are so easily taken for granted, and not completely looked into. But if you will check, the saffron shirt was not quite as wide spread in use as some seem to think. So talk of it in the late 17 to early 18th century, and others completely forget about mentioning it at all. Which can't help to make one question the seemingly wide spread use of that yellow-gold color for shirts. That also brings up different questions with regard to the saffron color dye and it's uses on other items of the period, such as aprons or other articles of clothing. How wide spread was it's use, and for how long was it a style? My personal theory is that it was used, but only in small quantities, and not as wide spread as would be thought. Besides when one thinks of the bright color, I can see how just a small quantity of saffron could stand out more prominently because of it's eye catching quality. I really wonder about some of the items that we "all know" and there validity. Please pardon my speculation on certain items, but I don't mind finding new research, and those that know of more primary documentation please contact me off list so that we might discuss this. Thank you, Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 22:09:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08554 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:09:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09579; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:24:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26764 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:22:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from cdale3.midwest.net (cdale3.midwest.net [208.235.1.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26754 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:22:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from talk2meg.midwest.net (johnstoncity4.midwest.net [208.235.11.142]) by cdale3.midwest.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA28595 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:25:04 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199908300325.WAA28595@cdale3.midwest.net> From: "Mary-Gayle Jany" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: more--Christening gown Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:17:27 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Mary-Gayle Jany" Oh, my, I did indeed mistake that one, huh? I was concentrating so much on one detail in question that I missed the cannon ball's approach. Sorry.... Thanks. Meg ---------- > From: kat@grendal.rain.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: more--Christening gown > Date: Sunday, August 29, 1999 2:48 PM > > > -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > > Re: the prayer book of Edward the VI. > > Of course, the prayer book might > > have been written when Edward VI was twelve years old and what was said > > prior to his christening was reported belatedly in the 1549 prayer book. > > The prayer book was the first book of common prayer sponsored by > Edward VI when he became king. It is the book which all the country > was to use for their devotions and ceremonies. It is the book which > was the foundation of the Anglican church and portions of it are > still being used. > > I suspect that it had nothing to do with E6's christening so much as > stating what the christenings for the entire country were to be like > (since they weren't to do the "popish" ones in previous use.) > > > Kat > > Kat(June Russell) > kat@grendal.rain.com > Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 23:05:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08623 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:05:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14488; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:20:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02945 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:19:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02939 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:19:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.109 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:18:48 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Celtic RennFaire Outfits (Garb snarks, beware!) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 00:23:47 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bef2a0$0b3897e0$6d0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <01BEF233.9238C340.vjlyons@snip.net> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Well, I for one, wear tartan to identify myself as Scottish on St. Paddy's Day. Never, ever green. Pure contraryness. Borrowing the holiday and stealing a little limelight! Being from a near part of the world, which is *just as good,* wondering why the Irish should get all that attention! Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Vince & Kerrie Lyons > Sent: Sunday, August 29, 1999 3:31 PM > To: 'h-costume@indra.com' > Subject: RE: H-COST: Celtic RennFaire Outfits (Garb snarks, beware!) > > > > -Poster: Vince & Kerrie Lyons > > > > >-Poster: Jean Waddie > >wrote: > > > >I hope you have lots of fun, and don't have to spend too much time > >explaining that you are Irish, not Scottish. This is something that > >really puzzles me - a serious question here: > > >Why do people associate tartan with Ireland? (especially > Americans, >if > >you'll pardon me. I am bemused by the amount of tartan on > display at >St > >Patrick's Day parades) Modern Irish pipers and male dancers wear the > >plain saffron kilt with a green jacket, and female dancers wear those > >gorgeous embroidered dresses, also usually green. Anything that > >proclaims itself Scottish associates itself with tartan and thistles, > >but Irish Republicanism is always green, never tartan. > > >Is there any evidence for tartan being worn in Ireland in centuries > >past,and if so, how come it fell out of use so completely? Any ideas? > > > Actually, I've rather resigned myself to being mistaken > for Scottish > in this get-up! ;-) > > As for the Irish Tartan, there are several today, including a > new "Irish > National Tartan" which was very recently adapted. The tartan > in Ireland > represents the counties as opposed to the individual clan > patterns of the > Scottish. As I understand the history, the most ancient > tartan patterns > didn't commonly appear in Ireland until the very late 1600's, > having gained > in popularity slowly through the century, backed by Irishmen > who admired > the bright patterns of their Scottish friends and neighbours, > and these > were used more for the brat than the kilt. > > The Ryan & O'Carroll's (my local supplier) website notes a very brief > history of the discovery of these early Irish colours, along > with samples > of their modern re-creations. > http://www.irishtartans.com/tartans.html > > There's also a > mention of historical Irish tartan at > http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Earlyirl.htm under "decoration" > (quite a nice > site for novices such as myself--everything clearly explained and > documented!) > > Please keep in mind though, my severely limited information > on this subject > comes more from being a native than from actually being > knowledgeable. ;-) > > Enjoy! > Kerrie > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Aug 29 23:14:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08633 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:14:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15008; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:29:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA03888 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:28:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03881 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 22:28:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.149] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11LJ3O-0000Ae-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:28:22 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:27:21 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: RE: H-COST: Celtic RennFaire Outfits (Garb snarks, beware!) In-Reply-To: <000101bef2a0$0b3897e0$6d0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> References: <01BEF233.9238C340.vjlyons@snip.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" On 8/30/99, "Hope H. Dunlap" wrote: Well, I for one, wear tartan to identify myself as Scottish ... ...* wondering why the Irish should get all that attention! Well, now, you do have the "Kirkin' of the Tartan" celebrations, which while some say they are a recently invented celebration, seem to be growing more and more popular, as are the Scottish Games & Gatherings, whereas the Irish have only St. Patrick's Day. :-) And you're always free to coordinate an effort to have St. Andrews' Day celebrated and promoted and recognized officially. Carol [whose ancestors seem to hail from both Ireland and Scotland] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 00:30:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10346 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 00:30:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22005; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:45:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA10635 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:43:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10622 for ; Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:43:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.96.178.72] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11LKEE-0004ez-00; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 01:43:39 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990830054031.0072b444@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 01:40:31 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: RE: H-COST: Celtic RennFaire Outfits (Garb snarks, beware!) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 12:23 AM 8/30/99 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >Well, I for one, wear tartan to identify myself as Scottish >on >St. Paddy's Day. Never, ever green. Pure contraryness. >Borrowing the holiday and stealing a little limelight! >Being from a near part of the world, which is *just as >good,* wondering why the Irish should get all that >attention! > >Hope H. Dunlap > E H-COSTUME > Why not wear your tartan on St. Andrew's day rather than St. Patrick's? Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 01:57:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA11205 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 01:57:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26174; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 01:12:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA16561 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 01:11:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spdmgaac.compuserve.com (ds-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.206.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16556 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 01:11:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id DAA21144 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 03:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 03:10:25 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Strutt To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908300310_MC2-82DD-B188@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id BAA16557 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson >A complete view of the dress and habits of the people of England: from the establishment of the Saxons in Britain to the present time (published around 1830.) I don't know of a reprint if you find one let me know, but I do know originals are very expensive. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 02:55:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA07691 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 02:55:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA01001; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 02:10:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA20043 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 02:09:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chupacabras.flash.net (chupacabras.flash.net [209.30.6.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA20035 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 02:09:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p109.amax2.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.64.109]) by chupacabras.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA14477 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 03:09:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37CA3C01.F6C9CDC6@flash.net> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 03:08:33 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Subject: H-COST: CIBA Review Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette Is there an index of articles in CIBA Review available anywhere? --Charlene -- The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it was. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 05:31:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07911 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 05:31:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06290; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 04:46:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA19193 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 04:45:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA19186 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 04:45:38 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6XYWa14818 (3875) for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 06:44:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 06:44:57 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: more--Christening gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Two other books for you to check out, Cunnington's Costume for Births, Marriages, and Deaths, and Anne Buck's Clothes and the Child. Both of these go back several hundred years. Both are, of course, English. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 06:07:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07928 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 06:07:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07576; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 05:22:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA21284 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 05:19:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.alltel.net (mail.alltel.net [166.102.165.30]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA21276 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 05:19:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (r-52.48.alltel.net [166.102.52.48]) by mail.alltel.net (8.9.3/ALLTEL Messaging Service) with ESMTP id GAA21403 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 06:19:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37CA68BF.42BC2D90@alltel.net> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:19:27 -0400 From: "jmhr@alltel.net" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Christening gown X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "jmhr@alltel.net" Sorry I can't help with the date mystery on Edward VI. Maybe someone more familiar with religious ceremonies of the era can advise? More from Walkley: "In her study of the list of 'Child bed Linning' compiled by Mary East in 1698, Pamela Clabburn has suggested that two of the entries may refer to a christening outfit. These are '1Rich white Sattain Mantle lind wth Sasnet [a thin silk fabric] with Cape & Sleeves of ye Same' and '1 fine point [i.e. lace] Sute of Bib Cuffs gloves two pinners [caps] & double point forehead Cloth'. Again there is no mention of a robe, but the author argues that at this time the word 'mantle' was used to mean either a bearing cloth or a sleeved coat or gown. All the above garments are white, and if we are to believe the Countess of Derby, Charlotte de la Tremoille, this was not typical. In 1628 she wrote: 'I have informed Madam of the baptism of your nephew...I had him dressed in white after the French fashion, for here [i.e. in England] they dress them in colours, which I do not like.' " (This interpretation of pinner is different from others I've read.) Melissa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 08:24:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08015 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:24:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16470; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:38:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03901 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:36:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03894 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:36:40 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6DXRa02415 (4013) for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:35:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <934e0d2d.24fbe29f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:35:27 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: more--Christening gown To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com In a message dated 8/29/99 9:13:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time, talk2meg@midwest.net writes: << was the Manigault family originally from France as the name seems to indicate? My baby son is currently working in Williamsburg, VA and could *possibly* find a copy of the calendar if you know where he can check. >> Meg, 1999 calendar is available at www.sallyqueenassociates.com. The retail stores are carrying the 2000 calendar, Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries. They pull the "old" issues off the shelves in February or March! For more information on the Manigault family, go to their web site at www.charlestonmuseum.com. FYI -- The Charleston Museum was founded in 1773 modeled after The London Museum. And their costume collection was started in the 18th century. They have a great pair of red silk knit breeches! and much much more. Sally Costume Calendar Series Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries available at www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 08:34:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08024 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 08:34:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17358; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:47:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05111 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:45:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay20.smtp.psi.net (relay20.smtp.psi.net [38.8.20.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05098 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 07:45:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.119.75.41] (helo=kdp.tiac.net) by relay20.smtp.psi.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11LRkx-000516-00; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:45:56 -0400 From: "John Page" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Tartan/Kilt Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 09:17:31 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "John Page" > What would you find? A rather long piece of uncut fabric (say 6'+ x > 25" or so) would be fairly obvious. If nothing else that would be a > LOT of fabrics scraps. And there's still nothing to "prove" that the scraps were part of a kilt and not part of some other textile. Unfortunately most scraps are minuscule, less than an inch across and not intimately associated with other scraps. The difficulties are enormous. Another more likely configuration for the find would be impressions left on metal belt fittings and decorations, tiny bits remaining around pins. The large textile finds are ones found in areas where the fabric has been either consistently wet (wool, silk) or consistently dry (linen). What we need to find is a post-Roman bog body wearing a kilt -- I suspect that is about as likely as finding any other documentation. The other approach would be to read all of the existing documentation of Scottish finds, try to develop a hypothesis and test, then experiment (Caution: we only have about 100 years of good documentation of digs and a great deal of the existing material is scattered far and wide, and never reported -- Elizabeth Crowfoot will SOMEDAY publish her textiles of the British Isles but I stopped holding my breath a decade ago). Please forgive the rant -- while some have been seeking the kilt, I have been seeking Viking and Migration/Merovingian dress and take some comfort at this point from the tribulations of others. Kristin Page. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 10:09:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08158 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:09:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29918; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:23:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA24170 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:21:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.126]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24156 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:21:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brujne.creighton.edu (brujne.creighton.edu [147.134.201.104]) by mailjay.creighton.edu (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with SMTP id KAA26215 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:21:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199908301521.KAA26215@mailjay.creighton.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Cindy Abel" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:21:37 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Elizabethan pattern Priority: normal In-reply-to: <002101bef0d5$b3946620$8caba0d1@j9g8x8> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cindy Abel" If you can't find the Elizabethan pattern in a display in the store near you, the permanent number is 8881. I was in Hancock's Saturday and they had the new Simplicity catalogs, including the Halloween costume book. It looks as though the Elizabethan and Celtic will be the only new historic costumes right now, although the costume catalog also shows a 1930's dress. Not all stores have the new patterns and books in yet--I was in a smaller local Hancock on Sunday, trying to see if they had some more of some Elizabethan-looking lace on sale(the bigger Hancocks had just 3 yards left on a reel and I needed six+ according to the pattern -- lovely stuff and 60% off to boot)but no luck. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 10:10:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08164 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:10:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29961; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:23:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA24469 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:22:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay20.smtp.psi.net (relay20.smtp.psi.net [38.8.20.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24459 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 09:22:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.119.75.41] (helo=kdp.tiac.net) by relay20.smtp.psi.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11LTGC-00023o-00; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:22:16 -0400 From: "John Page" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Celtic RennFaire Outfits (Garb snarks, beware!) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:35:29 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "John Page" > Is there any evidence for tartan being worn in Ireland in centuries > past,and if so, how come it fell out of use so completely? Any ideas? Dunno. The Hallstatt twill in green and brown plaid dates from ~800 BC, but that's ancestral Celt not Irish. As late as the 16th century the Irish and the Scottish were often considered to be the same people, at least by the English and the French. I expect that tartan use declined abruptly when the English banned tartan use in the 18th century. Kristin Page _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 11:00:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08202 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:00:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07920; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:14:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07352 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:13:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07345 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 10:13:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA22529 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:13:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA23011 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:13:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:13:45 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust In-Reply-To: <001e01bef11e$e40b20c0$aa75fea9@gunsafes> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed > Similar to the Tudor bodice right? yup. > So what you are saying is that it is pretty much the equivalent of > wearing two bodices, instead of a corset and bodice? You wouldn't wear a > corset, a petticoat bodice and a bodice on the outside, right? 2 or 2, not > 3 I don't know how they wore them back then--I myself wear it with a kirtle and gown usually, without a corset. I have worn it over a corset when I'm wearing fancy Elizabethan court dress. Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 12:06:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08280 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:06:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20134; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:19:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24673 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:18:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (mailgate@ah-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.217.154]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24653 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:18:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.8) id NAA25046 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:18:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:17:47 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Request Reliable Documentation for Kilts in the Medieval Period To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908301318_MC2-82E8-3070@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id LAA24657 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson >No, Mel, it's pretty clear from reading McClintock that the pleated kilt is basically the plaid (a large cloak/blanket, called in earlier Gaelic the 'brat'), belted up around the waist. The leine might fall in folds, but it was NOT pleated, so far as I've been able to determine. Dunbar describes the leine as ' had sleeves and a wide pleated skirt' Lucas de Herre in England 1567-1577 decribed it as a short tunic with long sleeves and short pleated skirt The great kilt is not permantly pleated but has a pleat effect and what I was suggesting was the the pleated effect of the saffron shirt (which has by scolars in the past been called a kilt as the pictures suggest to their eyes it might be) was copied into the great kilt wear. ie I like that pleated effect I think I'll wrap my blanket/brat/or whatever around my waist & try & make it look like that (probably not a concious thought) so it started perhaps scrunched up & later became a greater skill of deliberate (but no permanant) pleats The wee kilt with permanant pleats is not a large blanket/brat, it was/is a more deliberate fashion. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 12:06:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08284 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:06:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20164; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:20:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24724 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:19:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spamgaae.compuserve.com (as-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.217.148]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24717 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:19:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id NAA19354 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:19:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:17:55 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Saffron shirts To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908301318_MC2-82E8-3075@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id LAA24719 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson >But there has been some speculation about the saffron shirt situation. Some things are so easily taken for granted, and not completely looked into. But if you will check, the saffron shirt was not quite as wide spread in use as some seem to think. So talk of it in the late 17 to early 18th century, and others completely forget about mentioning it at all. Which can't help to make one question the seemingly wide spread use of that yellow-gold color for shirts. Most of the material I have mention saffron shirts for Irish & Scottish clothing early on, prior to the split of clothing types of the 2 > That also brings up different questions with regard to the saffron color dye and it's uses on other items of the period, such as aprons or other articles of clothing. How wide spread was it's use, and for how long was it a style? My personal theory is that it was used, but only in small quantities, and not as wide spread as would be thought. Besides when one thinks of the bright color, I can see how just a small quantity of saffron could stand out more prominently because of it's eye catching quality. As far as I have been able to asetain, saffron was not avaliable to the majority of the saffron shirt wearers in the earlier period. However a bright yellow can be achieved very easily with several plants, onion skins particularly springs to mind. However this dosen';t answer the question of why they were called saffron shirts as opposed to onion skin shirts or whatever :), unless the describers were familiar with the more expensive saffron as a dyestuff and described it such ? Like we say orange for a colour & a fruit , what can first the colour or the fruit ? Anyone know ? Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 12:06:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08288 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 12:06:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20090; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:19:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24541 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:18:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hpamgaab.compuserve.com (mailgate@ah-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.217.153]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24529 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 11:18:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaab.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.8) id NAA10814 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:18:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 13:17:54 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Ciba Reviws To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908301318_MC2-82E8-3074@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id LAA24531 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson No a complete list, but the early and most interesting ones :) Mel A list of principal contents of CIBA Review 1 Medieval Dyeing 2 India, its Dyers, and its Colour Symbolism 3 Wall-coverings 4 Purple 5 Tapestry 6 Silks of Lyons 7 Scarlet 8 The Dressing of Hides in the Stone Age 9 Dyeing and Tanning in Classical Antiquity 10 Trade Routes and Dye Markets in the Middle Ages 11 The Early History of Silk 12 Weaving and Dyeing in Ancient Egypt and Babylon 1 3 Guild Emblems and their Significance 14 Cloth-making in Flanders 15 Pile Carpets of the Ancient Orient 16 The Loom 1 7 Dress Fashions of the Italian Renaissance 18 Great Masters of Dyeing in Eighteenth-Century France 19 The Exchange 20 The Development of the Textile Crafts in Spain 21 Weaving and Dyeing in North Africa 2 2 Crafts and the Zodiac 23 The European Carpet 24 The Basle Ribbon Industry 25 Paris Fashion Artists of the Eighteenth Century 26 Medieval Cloth Printing in Europe 27 The Textile Trades in Medieval Florence 28 The Spinning Wheel 29 Venetian Silks 30 The Essentials of Handicrafts and the Craft of Weaving among Primitive Peoples 31 Textile Printing in Eighteenth Century France 32 Children's Dress 33 Bark Fabrics of the South Seas 34 Development of Footwear 35 The Hat 36 Indian Costumes 37 Textile Ornament 38 Neckties 39 Madder and Turkey Red 40 Turkestan and its Textile Crafts 41 The Human Figure in Textile Art 42 The Umbrella 43 Early Oriental Textiles 44 Ikats 45 Crafts of the Puszta Herdsmen 46 Crinoline and Bustle 47 Cloth Merchants of the Renaissance as Patrons of Art 48 The History of the Textile Crafts in Holland 49 Flax and Hemp 50 Medieval Embroidery 51 Fashions and Textiles at the Court of Burgundy 52 The Ship of the Dead in Textile Art 53 Silk Moths 54 Basketry and Woven Fabrics of the European Stone and Bronze Ages 55 Swiss Peasant Costumes 56 Soap 57 Medieval Dress 58 Batiks 59 The Reel 60 Roumanian Peasant Textiles 61 Gloves 62 Swiss Fairs and Markets in the Middle Ages 63 Basic Textile Techniques 64 Cotton and Cotton Trade in the Middle Ages 65 The Cloth Trade and the Fairs of Champagne 66 Peasant Textile Art 67 Colbert and the French Wool Manufacture 68 Dyeing among Primitive Peoples 69 Textile Art in Sixteenth-Century France 70 Textile Art in Ancient Mexico 71 Costumes of Porcelain Statuettes 72 Paper 73 Lace 74 Australia, the Land of Wool 75 Byzantine Silks 76 Early American Textiles 77 Flags 78 Fashions and Textiles of Queen Elizabeth's Reign 79 Swiss Linen Embroidery 80 Lucchese Silks 8 I The Early History of Tanning 82 Water 83 The Silk and Velvet Industries of Crefeld 84 Maori Textile Techniques 85 Indigo 86 Scottish Highland Dress 87 Rubber 88 Swedish Peasant Textiles 89 The Handkerchief go Textile Arts of the North American Indians 90 The Linen Industry of St Gall 92 Aluminium-Surface' Treatment and Colouring 93 Uniforms 94 Alaska Sealskins 95 Cotton 96 Velvet 97 New Orleans, Centre of the Cotton Trade 98 Persian Textiles 99 Hard Fibres 100 Micro-organic Attack on Textiles and Leather 101 Chromium 102 Turkish Embroideries I 03 Textiles and Dyestuffs at the Frankfort Fairs 104 Plangi-Tie and Dye Work 105 Textile Printing in Switzerland 106 The Stocking 107 Screen Printing 108 jute and its substitutes 109 Wood 110 Damask 111 Spun Silk 112 pH I I 3 The Wool Fibre 114 Fur 115 Sir -William Henry Perkin 116 Coir 117 Tablet Weaving 118 Tanning in Modern Times 119 Zurich Silks 120 Cibacron Dyes: Special Number 121 Waste Disposal in the Textile, Leather and Paper Industries 122 The Shirt 123 Ramie 124 Men's Dress 125 Roller Printing 126 Furnishing Fabrics I 27 Polyamide and Polyester Fibres 128 Copper 129 Felt 130 The English Wool Industry 131 CIBA-75 years 132 Static Electricity 133 Coptic Textiles 134 Physical Textile Testing 135 Rouen-French Textile Centre 1 36 Peruvian Textile techniques 137 Fibres from Addition Polymers 138 Work Clothing 139 Chlorine 140 Fluorescence 141 Mixture Fabrics 1961/1 English Chintz; 2 Colour and its Measurement; 3 Gold and Textiles; 4 Machine-made Carpets; 5 Alchemy and Colour; 6 Textile Arts of the Araucanians 1962/ 1 Textile Research Institutes; 2 Manchester-The Origins of Cotton-opolis; 3 Travel and Travel Outfits; 4 The Electron Microscope; 5 Hemp; 6 Assessment of Modification of Wool During Wet-Processing 1963/ 1 Artists' colours; 2 Early Chinese Silks; 3 The Catalan Textile Industry; 4 colours and Patterns in the Animal Kingdom; 5 Glass Fibres; 6 The Plant Laboratory 1964/ 1 Dry-cleaning; 2 Dyeing Theory; 3 The Polyolefins; 4 The Physiology of Clothing; 5 Energy; 6 Knitting Techniques 1965/ 1 Nonwovens; 2 Flax; 3 Yarn and Thread; 4 Sportswear; 5-6 Sulphur 1966/1 Slovene Textiles; 2 The Mechanical Loom; 3 Chromatography; 4 Radioactivity 1967/1 Animal Motifs on Fabrics; 2 Artificial Silk; 3 Oil from the Earth; 4 Japanese Resist Dyeing Techniques 1968/1 The Evolution of Mills and Factories; 2 Textiles in Biblical Times; I Tents; 4 Quality Control and Statistics 1969/1 Alginates; 2 Contemporary Greek Handweaving; 3 Bamboo And here a list of those I think I still have in stock 25 Paris Fashion Artists of the Eighteenth Century 32 Children's Dress 60 Roumanian Peasant Textiles 64 Cotton and Cotton Trade in the Middle Ages 65 The Cloth Trade and the Fairs of Champagne 67 Colbert and the French Wool Manufacture 69 Textile Art in Sixteenth-Century France 70 Textile Art in Ancient Mexico 75 Byzantine Silks 76 Early American Textiles 83 The Silk and Velvet Industries of Crefeld 84 Maori Textile Techniques 85 Indigo 88 Swedish Peasant Textiles 89 The Handkerchief go Textile Arts of the North American Indians 90 The Linen Industry of St Gall 93 Uniforms 96 Velvet 97 New Orleans, Centre of the Cotton Trade I 03 Textiles and Dyestuffs at the Frankfort Fairs 111 Spun Silk I I 3 The Wool Fibre 114 Fur 133 Coptic Textiles _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 14:52:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08549 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:52:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13178; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:05:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA01544 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:03:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from MAINE.maine.edu (maine.maine.edu [130.111.2.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA01531 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:03:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by MAINE.maine.edu (IBM VM SMTP Level 310) via spool with SMTP id 3002 ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:03:33 EDT Received: from MAINE.MAINE.EDU (NJE origin CS23001@MAINE) by MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 7128; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:03:33 -0400 Subject: H-COST: Need contact information Message-Id: From: CS23001@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Lisa A. Tyson) To: h-costume@indra.com (Historic Costuming) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 99 16:02:17 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: CS23001@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Lisa A. Tyson) Hi.. sorry to bother this list but I need to contact Kathy Klocko .. .please send me email.. -- Lisa Tyson Lisa_Tyson@umit.maine.edu _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 15:37:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08580 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:37:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22098; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:50:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12801 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:49:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12792; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:49:47 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:49:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908302049.OAA12792@net.indra.com> From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: HELP ! Gloves, Fans, Stockings To: LIST historic costume Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson Can anyone help me find these things: Gloves, preferably white kid gloves in size 8 plus for a lady c1872, so wrist to half way to elbow length. So far my hands are too big ! Failing the gloves a pattern for gloves ? Fans- either blank fans (fabric ) or the staves for making fans Stocking- cotton & silk stocking again for c1872, plain or emroidered. Thanks in anticipation Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 15:42:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08587 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:42:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22990; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:55:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA13978 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx2.io.com (IDENT:root@mx2.io.com [199.170.88.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13959; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:54:00 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by mx2.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA21301; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:53:58 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA16434; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:53:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:53:58 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com cc: LIST historic costume Subject: Re: H-COST: HELP ! Gloves, Fans, Stockings In-Reply-To: <199908302049.OAA12792@net.indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com I have a collection of glove patterns and books. I have one pattern online if you cannot find the gloves. But ebay has over 5000 gloves on auction at any given time. You will find what you need easy enough on there. But if you cannot wait I may be able to help you with customizing a pattern for you. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Melanie Wilson wrote: > Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:49:47 -0600 (MDT) > From: Melanie Wilson > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: LIST historic costume > Subject: H-COST: HELP ! Gloves, Fans, Stockings > > > -Poster: Melanie Wilson > > > Can anyone help me find these things: > > Gloves, preferably white kid gloves in size 8 plus for a lady c1872, so > wrist to half way to elbow length. So far my hands are too big ! Failing > the gloves a pattern for gloves ? > > Fans- either blank fans (fabric ) or the staves for making fans > > Stocking- cotton & silk stocking again for c1872, plain or emroidered. > > Thanks in anticipation > > Mel > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 16:19:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08665 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:19:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29851; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:33:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22939 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:31:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22914 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:31:23 -0600 (MDT) From: Natekakar@aol.com Received: from Natekakar@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6HFHa01404 (3965) for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:30:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <18482402.24fc520d@aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:30:53 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: HELP ! Gloves, Fans, Stockings To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) sub 7 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Natekakar@aol.com I , too, have large hands, and needed kid gloves for re-enacting. I finally found some soft, "washable" leather gloves at a department store -- they have silk knit linings which can be cut out, and if you buy them snug, they pass pretty well. I don't know of a source for blank fans, but I know people have snapped up decrepit fans at antique stores, etc., and put new fabric on them. Many Civil War / Rev War sutlers offer cotton stockings -- Jas Townsend, Amazon Drygoods, R & K, Fall River, to name a few that are on line. I once bought a nice heavy pair of silk stockings from a place called Garnet Hill -- men's silk knee socks will sometimes be large enough to work as stockings, too. K. Krewer _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 16:36:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08695 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:36:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02764; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:50:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA27047 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:49:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from voicenet.com (mail12.voicenet.com [207.103.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA27027 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 15:49:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 17705 invoked from network); 30 Aug 1999 21:49:07 -0000 Received: from dialpool0628-pri.voicenet.com (209.71.86.93) by mail12.voicenet.com with SMTP; 30 Aug 1999 21:49:07 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19990830164252.2d0f9368@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: enilorac@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:42:52 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Caroline Dechert Subject: Re: H-COST: HELP ! Gloves, Fans, Stockings In-Reply-To: <18482402.24fc520d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Caroline Dechert Blank white silk fans are available from Dharma Trading Co, 800-542-5227. They're silk over bamboo, 10.5" long, and cost $5.95. Usual disclaimer: I don't work for Dharma; I'm just a very satisfied customer. ---Caroline Dechert enilorac@voicenet.com / Carodec@aol.com / caroline@agcsys.com "How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks." Dorothy Sayers, Gaudy_Night _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 19:16:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08904 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:16:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23955; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:28:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA26988 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:26:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26979 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:26:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA16067 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:26:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-16.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.16]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12530 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:26:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000601bef348$3fac3d80$a1dbfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "costume list" Subject: H-COST: Fw: Re: Eleonora di Toledo Gown Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:31:18 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" -----Original Message----- From: Michelle To: SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU Date: Friday, August 27, 1999 4:45 PM Subject: Re: Eleonora di Toledo Gown >>snip >>> This winter I'm hoping to make either a direct "replica" or a gown >>> "inspired" by the gown worn by Eleonora da Toledo, Grand Duchess of >>> Tuscany by Bronzino circa 1540s - the portrait can be seen at: >>> http://www.southern.com/wm/paint/auth/bronzino/eleonora.jpg > > > > >The child in the picture with Eleonora of Toledo looks to be wearing a >simple T tunic and chemise with ruffled collar and neck. (almost looks like >a polo shirt! ;) ) I wanted to see what everyone thought of this. I have >learned fairly recently that children, of either sex, wore gowns like young >ladies until they were of potty training age. The pictures that I have seen >all apeared to be more elaborate and more fitted than this. > As fast as these kids grow, we could be doing ourselfs in, by trying to >keep up with the new costumes. It would be far easier to have some of these >and maybe one elaborate. With the blend of Engish and Spanish dress, such >as the partlet, I would think that we would see more of this type of dress. > Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 19:37:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08936 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:37:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26939; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:51:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00547 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:50:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1106.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.126]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA00530 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 18:50:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990831004843.994.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [38.226.171.45] by web1106.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:48:43 PDT Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 17:48:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell Subject: H-COST: glove and fan making To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carol Mitchell I recommend the following webpage for glove information http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/gloves-msg.html For supplies you might want to try Amazon DryGoods at www.victoriana.com/Amazon Carol Mitchell === Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 21:31:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09025 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:31:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10634; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:43:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA15634 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:41:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15628 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:41:05 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6SISa06249 (4010) for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8538375d.24fc9a65@aol.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:39:33 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: HELP ! Gloves, Fans, Stockings To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com WinterSilks has silk boot liners that pass pretty well for silk stockings. Their new winter catalogue is out, so they should have everything in stock. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 21:44:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09046 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:44:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12166; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:58:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA17922 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:56:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17897 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:56:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from erols.com (207-172-44-198.s198.tnt3.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.44.198]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA07592 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:56:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37CB6FE0.73E761B2@erols.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:02:08 -0700 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: canvas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "David S. Mallinak" -Poster: "Andy Oppenheim" > Does anyone know of an inexpensive source for 10 oz cotton duct or similar > weight? My supplier for cotton duct is Marmelstein's, 760 S. Fourth Street, Philadephia, Penn. 19147-3196, 215-925-9862. I would reccomend call during normal busines hours during the week. DSM _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 21:45:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09050 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:45:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12261; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:58:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA18128 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:57:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu08.email.msn.com [207.46.181.30]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18116 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:57:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.96 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:57:00 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Mallard Green Wool Satin Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:32:37 -0400 Message-ID: <000501bef35d$ca825600$e10bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Found this in my e-mail, thought some of you might be interested: mallard green wool satin ($15.98, 52"). Call (508)678-5187 or write aafabrics@aol.com for samples. Apple Annie's is a better fabric store in Swansea, Mass. They swatch free per your e-mail request and will cut and send yardage. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 21:45:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09054 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:45:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12264; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:58:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA18129 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:57:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18123 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.96 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:56:38 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Celtic RennFaire Outfits (Garb snarks, beware!) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:17:58 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bef35d$bc2b1240$e10bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19990830054031.0072b444@widomaker.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Tell me what St. Andrews Day is! Then I will be the only American practicing it. It's easier to make a statement in the shadow of the dominant culture -- at least you have company. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Ron Carnegie > Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 1:41 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: RE: H-COST: Celtic RennFaire Outfits (Garb snarks, beware!) > > > > -Poster: Ron Carnegie > > At 12:23 AM 8/30/99 -0400, you wrote: > > > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > > >Well, I for one, wear tartan to identify myself as Scottish > >on > >St. Paddy's Day. Never, ever green. Pure contraryness. > >Borrowing the holiday and stealing a little limelight! > >Being from a near part of the world, which is *just as > >good,* wondering why the Irish should get all that > >attention! > > > >Hope H. Dunlap > > > E H-COSTUME > > > > Why not wear your tartan on St. Andrew's day rather than St. > Patrick's? > > Cheers, > Ron Carnegie > rcarnegie@widomaker.com > ************************************************* > "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that > once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked > other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking > their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now > all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we > ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." > G.M. Trevelyan > ************************************************* > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 21:59:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09060 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:59:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14081; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20046 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:11:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20040 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:11:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn7.pm3-3.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.126]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16672 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:11:46 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908310311.VAA16672@sight.vcn.com> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Celtic RennFaire Outfits (Garb snarks, beware!) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:16:11 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" November 30.... And I don't think the Irish are the least bit upset by all the plaid Scotsmen! Liadain > Tell me what St. Andrews Day is! Then I will be the only > American practicing it. It's easier to make a statement in > the shadow of the dominant culture -- at least you have > company. > > Hope H. Dunlap > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com > [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of Ron Carnegie > > Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 1:41 AM > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > Subject: RE: H-COST: Celtic RennFaire Outfits (Garb > snarks, beware!) > > > > > > > > -Poster: Ron Carnegie > > > > At 12:23 AM 8/30/99 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > > > > >Well, I for one, wear tartan to identify myself as > Scottish > > >on > > >St. Paddy's Day. Never, ever green. Pure contraryness. > > >Borrowing the holiday and stealing a little limelight! > > >Being from a near part of the world, which is *just as > > >good,* wondering why the Irish should get all that > > >attention! > > > > > >Hope H. Dunlap > > > > > E H-COSTUME > > > > > > > Why not wear your tartan on St. Andrew's day rather than > St. > > Patrick's? > > > > Cheers, > > Ron Carnegie > > rcarnegie@widomaker.com > > ************************************************* > > "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact > that > > once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground > walked > > other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking > > their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now > > all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we > > ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." > > G.M. Trevelyan > > ************************************************* > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > _____ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 22:00:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09070 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:00:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14251; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:13:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20186 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:12:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20176 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:12:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn7.pm3-3.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.126]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16900 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:12:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199908310312.VAA16900@sight.vcn.com> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Mallard Green Wool Satin Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:17:08 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Oooh, seriously yum - do these folks have a Webpage? Liadain > Found this in my e-mail, thought some of you might be > interested: > > mallard green wool satin ($15.98, 52"). > > Call (508)678-5187 or write aafabrics@aol.com for > samples. > > Apple Annie's is a better fabric store in Swansea, Mass. > They swatch free per your e-mail request and will cut and > send yardage. > > Hope H. Dunlap > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 22:01:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09079 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:01:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14419; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:15:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20409 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:14:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20404 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:14:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from erols.com (207-172-53-224.s224.tnt4.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.53.224]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA14470 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:14:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37CB73EE.7B59B806@erols.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:19:26 -0700 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "David S. Mallinak" "Carol J. Bell Cannon" wrote: > Whom amongst our friends may we current-day folk convince to > play the role of the servant who would have carried Mesdames'/Monsieurs' > belongings, so that the Ladies/Lords themselves would have their hands > unoccupied and be free to do as they wished, unencumbered? :-) I enjoy playing servants and I can be persuaded with little trouble to play at events. DSM _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 22:12:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09109 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:12:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15908; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:26:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22050 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:25:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22040 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:25:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.96 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:24:40 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Mallard Green Wool Satin Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:28:07 -0400 Message-ID: <000901bef361$a2f205a0$e10bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <199908310312.VAA16900@sight.vcn.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" No web page. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Frank A Thallas Jr > Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 11:17 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Mallard Green Wool Satin > > > > -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" > > > Oooh, seriously yum - do these folks have a Webpage? > > Liadain > > > Found this in my e-mail, thought some of you might be > > interested: > > > > mallard green wool satin ($15.98, 52"). > > > > Call (508)678-5187 or write aafabrics@aol.com for > > samples. > > > > Apple Annie's is a better fabric store in Swansea, Mass. > > They swatch free per your e-mail request and will cut and > > send yardage. > > > > Hope H. Dunlap > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 22:13:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09113 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:13:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15903; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:26:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22073 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:25:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22057 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:25:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.96 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 20:24:47 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Celtic RennFaire Outfits (Garb snarks, beware!) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:33:28 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01bef361$ad2960e0$e10bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <199908310311.VAA16672@sight.vcn.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Impossible date for a holiday. It conflicts with almost the busiest shopping weekend of the year. Just can't compete. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Frank A Thallas Jr > Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 11:16 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Celtic RennFaire Outfits (Garb snarks, beware!) > > > > -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" > > > November 30.... > And I don't think the Irish are the least bit upset by all > the plaid > Scotsmen! > > Liadain > > > Tell me what St. Andrews Day is! Then I will be the only > > American practicing it. It's easier to make a statement in > > the shadow of the dominant culture -- at least you have > > company. > > > > Hope H. Dunlap > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com > > [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > > > Behalf Of Ron Carnegie > > > Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 1:41 AM > > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > > Subject: RE: H-COST: Celtic RennFaire Outfits (Garb > > snarks, beware!) > > > > > > > > > > > > -Poster: Ron Carnegie > > > > > > At 12:23 AM 8/30/99 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > > > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > > > > > > >Well, I for one, wear tartan to identify myself as > > Scottish > > > >on > > > >St. Paddy's Day. Never, ever green. Pure contraryness. > > > >Borrowing the holiday and stealing a little limelight! > > > >Being from a near part of the world, which is *just as > > > >good,* wondering why the Irish should get all that > > > >attention! > > > > > > > >Hope H. Dunlap > > > > > > > E H-COSTUME > > > > > > > > > > Why not wear your tartan on St. Andrew's day rather than > > St. > > > Patrick's? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Ron Carnegie > > > rcarnegie@widomaker.com > > > ************************************************* > > > "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact > > that > > > once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground > > walked > > > other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking > > > their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now > > > all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we > > > ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." > > > G.M. Trevelyan > > > ************************************************* > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > > _____ > > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > > majordomo@indra.com > > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Aug 30 22:22:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09136 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:21:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16932; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:35:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA23506 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:34:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23490 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 21:34:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from erols.com (207-172-53-224.s224.tnt4.brd.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.53.224]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA20939 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:34:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37CB78B7.B7B38BDF@erols.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 23:39:51 -0700 From: "David S. Mallinak" Organization: Red Dragon Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Kilts & Tartan in Medieval Period Evidence? References: <4.0.1.19990829211316.010413b0@saltmine.radix.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "David S. Mallinak" Kevin + Mara Riley wrote: > -Poster: Kevin + Mara Riley > > The great kilt seems to have originated around 1500, since there are no > documentable examples or mentions of it any earlier. > The smaller kilt seems, by all accounts, to have originated in the 18th > century. I have always thougth that the earlies evidence for a kilt was the 1590s. I am curious what evidence for a kilt i"around 1500"? Was it a quotation or drawing? Where is this evidence reproduced. (Old Highland Dress by McClintock?, what page?) David S Mallinak matchlck@erols.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 00:49:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA09365 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:49:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29549; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:02:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA11502 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:00:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11496 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:00:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p2.directcon.net [206.170.184.51]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA24041 for ; Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 22:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908310559.WAA24041@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:19 PM 08/30/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "David S. Mallinak" > >" > >I enjoy playing servants and I can be persuaded with little trouble to play at >events. > >You're hired! May I book you for, say, the Mists/Cynaugua war, Renaissance Pleasure Faire North 5th weekend, and Christmas in Coloma? I pay period wages; I believe a shilling a year for the first, prorated to two days would be...drat! where's my multi-century currency exchanger when I need it? Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 01:35:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA09394 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:35:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01896; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:49:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA15494 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:48:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA15489 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 00:48:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 63040 invoked from network); 31 Aug 1999 06:48:12 -0000 Received: from 207-229-149-83.d.enteract.com (HELO lynnx.enteract.com) (207.229.149.83) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 1999 06:48:12 -0000 Message-ID: <37CB9EDB.304E@enteract.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 02:22:35 -0700 From: lynnx X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Kilt, Brat, "Saffron", "Leine..." Word time! References: <199908310026.SAA27073@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lynnx Hi folks, just sticking in my .02 worth... Gleaned from the thorough fulling (= Beating To Death! in hot water,even :-) of this topic on SCA and other lists. * For entertainment only, Accuracy Not Guaranteed. (But probly close) ** The Opinions Expressed Herein Are Not Necessarily Those Of The Author. Leine: That Shirt Thing, short-ish for men, floor length or so for women. Styling seems to have been about the same for both otherwise. The sleeves, in case you hear this one, are *not* drawn up with strings inside like Venetian blinds; the wrist opening just happened to be sufficiently narrow to keep the rest of the sleeve bloused up on the arm. Saffron: The *color*, in this case the spice prob'ly came first and was well-known enough even to folk who couldn't afford it, to describe the color. Which was achieved with *weld*, a local plant, not to be confused with *woad* (which gives blue). Brat: Blanket/cape. Plaid: Blanket/cape/whatever. (Large woven object.) Kilt: Boyz in skirtz hoobah!! Wee kilt: 18th-century self-conscious folksyism decremented from the Great Kilt; invented for the purpose of Being Scots And Proud Of It Great kilt: Tartan plaid all-purpose cape, skirt n top, raincoat, blanket, tent, sleeping bag, body bag, girlcatcher, you-name-it-they-probly-did-too. For everyday, or sudden "hurry up and get dressed we're being attacked!!" wear, wrapped around and tucked in the belt whichever way, "who-cares, we're an army not a fashion parade" style ("What they dinna ken", the lassies peering over the hill from just outta sight snicker) For Sunday-dress-up, laid on the ground lengthwise over the belt, carefully pleated, guy lies on the ground on top of this and wraps the belt around it about 1/2 way up, then uses any of 250 gzillion ways (give or take one) of wrapping/draping the top part to get it out of the way, look Dashing, and keep warm or cool (depending). (Wish it'd come back in style, be great for Chicago weather!! Oh yeah one little note about What They Wear Under Those Things: it is specified in the manual for military parade attire that wearing *anything* under a kilt is considered "out of uniform"! I don't know when that became Official. Hope this was worth the bandwidth, for yuks if not use, Heather _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 01:51:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA09406 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:51:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02693; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:05:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA16788 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:04:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spdmgaac.compuserve.com (ds-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.206.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16781 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:04:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id DAA13610 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 03:03:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 03:02:47 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Blank Fans To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908310302_MC2-82FF-BB06@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id BAA16783 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson >Blank white silk fans are available from Dharma Trading Co, 800-542-5227. They're silk over bamboo, 10.5" long, and cost $5.95. Great do you have a fax or email for them by any chance ? Thanks Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 01:51:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA09410 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:51:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA02685; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:05:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA16773 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:04:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spdmgaae.compuserve.com (ds-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.206.138]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16763 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:04:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id DAA14648 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 03:03:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 03:02:48 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Gloves To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908310302_MC2-82FF-BB07@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id BAA16765 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson >I have a collection of glove patterns and books. I have one pattern online if you cannot find the gloves. Can you tell me where to find it ? > But ebay has over 5000 gloves on auction at any given time. You will find what you need easy enough on there. Not so far, there are plenty of really nice gloves for sure, but none for my size hands :( > But if you cannot wait I may be able to help you with customizing a pattern for you I've been looking for 7 months with no luck so your help would be great Thanks # Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 02:32:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA09866 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 02:32:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04261; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:45:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA20432 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:44:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA20426 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 01:44:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 79859 invoked from network); 31 Aug 1999 07:44:31 -0000 Received: from 207-229-149-83.d.enteract.com (HELO lynnx.enteract.com) (207.229.149.83) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 1999 07:44:31 -0000 Message-ID: <37CBAC0F.64EE@enteract.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 03:18:55 -0700 From: lynnx X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Show Your Colors (was Celtic Rennfaire/Garb Snarks) References: <199908310648.AAA15510@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lynnx > Impossible date for a holiday. It conflicts with almost the > busiest shopping weekend of the year. Just can't compete. > > Hope H. Dunlap No way, it's the *best*!! Think of all those poor confused lemmings out there in the **malls**, seeing you bopping around classy and sassy in your tartan arasaid [?sp] and matching skirt, and ...uh.. what-was-it, a leine and at least one underskirt, i think? And possibly some kind of cool bodice, not sure... What better time to make a Statement - while getting your shopping done (using a period basket of course) to boot? Don't think you're in my area (Chi IL) but if you were I'd join you for the hoots even if I am broke :-) Heather > > November 30.... > > And I don't think the Irish are the least bit upset by > > all the plaid Scotsmen! > > > Tell me what St. Andrews Day is! Then I will be the only > > > American practicing it. It's easier to make a statement in > > > the shadow of the dominant culture -- at least you have company. > > > > Why not wear your tartan on St. Andrew's day rather > > > > than St. Patrick's? > > > > >Well, I for one, wear tartan to identify myself as Scottish on > > > > >St. Paddy's Day. Never, ever green. Pure contraryness. > > > > >Borrowing the holiday and stealing a little limelight! > > > > >Being from a near part of the world, which is *just as > > > > >good,* wondering why the Irish should get all that > > > > >attention! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 03:51:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA09914 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 03:51:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA08633; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 03:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA26755 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 03:03:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hpamgaad.compuserve.com (mailgate@ah-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.217.158]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26749 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 03:03:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpamgaad.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.8) id FAA25870 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 05:03:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 05:03:23 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Bone toothbrushes To: LIST historic costume Message-ID: <199908310503_MC2-82F7-A10D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id DAA26750 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson Incase anyone out there needs one I have found a source, they work out at GBP2.70 each plus postage if you need one. Also Horn combs from GBP3.90 and other horn stuff contact me direct if interested. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 05:20:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10132 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 05:19:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12918; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:33:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA24155 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:32:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from voicenet.com (mail12.voicenet.com [207.103.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA24150 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:32:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 26300 invoked from network); 31 Aug 1999 10:32:39 -0000 Received: from dialpool0102-pri.voicenet.com (209.71.85.2) by mail12.voicenet.com with SMTP; 31 Aug 1999 10:32:38 -0000 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19990831051546.29776d72@popmail.voicenet.com> X-Sender: enilorac@popmail.voicenet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 05:15:46 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Caroline Dechert Subject: Re: H-COST: Blank Fans In-Reply-To: <199908310302_MC2-82FF-BB06@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Caroline Dechert >-Poster: Melanie Wilson > >>Blank white silk fans are available from Dharma Trading Co, >800-542-5227. They're silk over bamboo, 10.5" long, and cost >$5.95. > >Great do you have a fax or email for them by any chance ? e-mail catalog@dharmatrading.com This is a seriously dangerous catalog if you like to play with fabric before cutting and sewing. ---Caroline Dechert enilorac@voicenet.com / Carodec@aol.com / caroline@agcsys.com "How fleeting are all human passions compared with the massive continuity of ducks." Dorothy Sayers, Gaudy_Night _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 06:35:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10288 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:35:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17596; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 05:49:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA00294 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 05:47:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA00287 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 05:47:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 8513 invoked by alias); 31 Aug 1999 11:47:47 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 8501 invoked by uid 0); 31 Aug 1999 11:47:46 -0000 Received: from bdsl134.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.134) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 31 Aug 1999 11:47:46 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990831064643.0098c100@rrnet.com> X-Sender: baird@rrnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:47:46 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com, Status@net.indra.com From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Subject: H-COST: Dharma Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" Dharma has an on-line catalog. Look for http://www.dharmatrading.com I've ordered from them and had good results. Kim _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 06:36:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10292 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:36:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA17705; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 05:50:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA00455 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 05:49:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA00449 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 05:49:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 8644 invoked by alias); 31 Aug 1999 11:49:11 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 8638 invoked by uid 0); 31 Aug 1999 11:49:11 -0000 Received: from bdsl134.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.134) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 31 Aug 1999 11:49:11 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990831064906.0097e6a0@rrnet.com> X-Sender: baird@rrnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:49:12 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Subject: H-COST: Dharma Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" Dharma has an on-line catalog. Look for http://www.dharmatrading.com I've ordered from them and had good results. Kim _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 07:12:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10674 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 07:12:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20286; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA03839 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:24:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spamgaaa.compuserve.com (as-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.217.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03829 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:24:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id IAA14002 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:24:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:24:09 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Kilt, Brat, "Saffron", "Leine..." Word time! To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908310824_MC2-82F7-4D50@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id GAA03831 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson Just to be difficult .... >Saffron: The *color*, in this case the spice prob'ly came first and was well-known enough even to folk who couldn't afford it, to describe the color. Which was achieved with *weld*, a local plant, not to be confused with *woad* (which gives blue). I think the description was probably by those who could have known the spice, however weld is rare in Scotland, a probably more so in the highlands Traditional scottish yellows include. alder, ash, birch, nettles, ragwort, yarrow to name a veryt few of the easiest to find ! >Oh yeah one little note about What They Wear Under Those Things: it is specified in the manual for military parade attire that wearing *anything* under a kilt is considered "out of uniform"! I don't know when that became Official. However that's lowlanders for you, there is records of short blue shorts being worn by highlanders Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 07:14:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10681 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 07:14:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20465; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:28:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA04068 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:27:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04063 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:27:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.96.178.132] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11Ln0B-0004NX-00; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:27:03 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990831122354.007248f4@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:23:54 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: RE: H-COST: Celtic RennFaire Outfits (Garb snarks, beware!) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 11:33 PM 8/30/99 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >Impossible date for a holiday. It conflicts with almost the >busiest shopping weekend of the year. Just can't compete. > >Hope H. Dunlap > > > >> >> -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" >> >> >> November 30.... >> And I don't think the Irish are the least bit upset by >all >> the plaid >> Scotsmen! >> >> Liadain >> >> > Tell me what St. Andrews Day is! Then I will be the >only >> > American practicing it. It's easier to make a statement >in >> > the shadow of the dominant culture -- at least you have >> > company. >> > >> > Hope H. Dunlap >> > I am afraid it is to late for you to be the only American celebrating this holiday. There are already many Americans WHO do celebrate. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 07:24:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10689 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 07:24:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21037; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:38:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05165 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:37:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05153 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:37:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.96.178.132] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11LnAQ-0004lp-00; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:37:39 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990831123430.007186dc@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:34:30 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: Kilt, Brat, "Saffron", "Leine..." Word time! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 02:22 AM 8/31/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: lynnx > >Hi folks, just sticking in my .02 worth... > >Gleaned from the thorough fulling (= Beating To Death! in hot water,even >:-) of this topic on SCA and other lists. > >* For entertainment only, Accuracy Not Guaranteed. (But probly close) >** The Opinions Expressed Herein Are Not Necessarily Those Of The >Author. > >Leine: That Shirt Thing, short-ish for men, floor length or so for >women. Styling seems to have been about the same for both otherwise. >The sleeves, in case you hear this one, are *not* drawn up with >strings inside like Venetian blinds; the wrist opening just happened to >be sufficiently narrow to keep the rest of the sleeve bloused up on >the arm. Actually Leine is simply Gaelic for shirt, so it could and does mean a lot of things. (Gaelic is making a revival). >Kilt: Boyz in skirtz hoobah!! > Wee kilt: 18th-century self-conscious folksyism decremented from the >Great Kilt; invented for the purpose of Being Scots And Proud Of It There is some confusion about the actual creator of the philabeg (small kilt), but this is the first I have heard claiming it as a folkism! It WAS either created for tradesman or soldiers is the usual story. They were in use in America by the french indian war (seven years war). Of course by that time the proscription was in effect in Scotland. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 07:47:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10698 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 07:47:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22685; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 07:00:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA07503 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:58:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07497 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:58:20 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03278 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 07:58:20 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA04001 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 07:58:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 07:58:19 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Gloves In-Reply-To: <199908310302_MC2-82FF-BB07@compuserve.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com http://www.io.com/~ches/gloves.html Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Melanie Wilson wrote: > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 03:02:48 -0400 > From: Melanie Wilson > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" > Subject: H-COST: Gloves > > > -Poster: Melanie Wilson > > >I have a collection of glove patterns and books. I have one pattern online > if you cannot find the gloves. > > Can you tell me where to find it ? > > > But ebay has over 5000 gloves on auction at > any given time. You will find what you need easy enough on there. > > Not so far, there are plenty of really nice gloves for sure, but none for > my size hands :( > > > But if you cannot wait I may be able to help you with customizing a > pattern for > you > > I've been looking for 7 months with no luck so your help would be great > > Thanks > # > Mel > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 08:15:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10747 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 08:15:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26005; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 07:28:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA11502 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 07:27:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA11492 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 07:27:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990831132718.24426.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:27:18 PDT Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 06:27:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: H-COST: Wow! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I just have to share my awe and jealousy for a moment... here I am... supposed to be working, but I am playing on e-Bay instead... and I come across a company selling their entire costume collection... now, it is $200,000 and takes 3500 square feet of space, but I thought ya'll might just get the amusement out of looking that I did... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=153740240 Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 10:29:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10928 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:29:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14840; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:37:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07614 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07606 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:35:59 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00943 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:35:58 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA21142 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:35:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:35:58 -0500 (CDT) To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: Blackwork Cuffs and collar (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Can anyone help him with his question? I will foward any responses if you want to send them to me privatel. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:41:08 -0500 From: Brent Ryder Subject: Blackwork Cuffs and collar I am thinking of doing a set of Blackwork cuffs and a collar for Kingdom A&S. I have a picture of a Holbein painting that I am going to use as a pattern. Does anyone know what type of cloth and the thread count that would have been used? Borek _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 10:48:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10981 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:48:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18690; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:02:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13423 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:01:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13410; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EKC33Z2B; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:59:56 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Kilt, Brat, "Saffron", "Leine..." Word time! Message-ID: <19990831.073917.5135.0.cley@juno.com> References: <199908310824_MC2-82F7-4D50@compuserve.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-6 From: cynthia j ley Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:59:56 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: cynthia j ley Kilt shirts were long, at least mid-thigh length. They were slit at the hip, and diapered, thus eliminating the need for another undergarment. Arlys ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 10:53:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11002 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:53:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19598; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:06:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14601 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:05:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14575 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:05:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p39.directcon.net [206.170.184.88]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04021 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908311604.JAA04021@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Kilt, Brat, "Saffron", "Leine..." Word time! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > Oh yeah one little note about What They Wear Under Those Things: it >is specified in the manual for military parade attire that wearing >*anything* under a kilt is considered "out of uniform"! If tht's a concept that gladdens your heart, go to this URL: http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/2663/ I think this picture may be faked, but it's still fun. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 11:46:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11083 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:46:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26881; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:59:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27048 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:58:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27027 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:58:06 -0600 (MDT) From: DzMzLzy@aol.com Received: from DzMzLzy@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6JTWa13741 (4255) for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:57:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <853bbef5.24fd636d@aol.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:57:17 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Costume College To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DzMzLzy@aol.com In a message dated 8/27/99 6:49:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, BWilson@gesexpo.com writes: > > Does anyone know if they tape some of the sessions for costume college, or > if anyone is taping them, I would be willing to pay to get copies of some of > the sessions (primarily SCA period related ones) ? > No, the classes are not taped due to the problems of rights and permissions. Sorry. Liz Gerds Costume College 2000 committee member. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 12:18:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21923 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:18:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01909; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:31:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA04646 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:29:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04624 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:29:52 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19934 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:29:50 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA32746 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:29:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:29:50 -0500 (CDT) To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: new corset thread Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Ok with all this talk of a badly fitted corset and know what a corset is and what it is supposed to do I want to ask some questions and hopefully get some real cool answers from all you gurus out there. :) >From each period, what constitutes a well fitted corset? I.E. what is the thing supposed to do and how does the creator of such a garment go about in technical terms of achieving it in modern day. Do any of you make a pocket for your corset to fit into your bodice? Where do you put your pocket? Is this technique period? Inquiring minds want to know..... :) Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 12:18:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22753 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:18:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02293; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:32:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA05087 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:31:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from exchange.aiken.sc.edu (aiken.sc.edu [129.252.188.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05077 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:31:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.252.178.234] (129.252.178.234 [129.252.178.234]) by exchange.aiken.sc.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id R9P4ZKYZ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:22:39 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:27:24 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Josh Webb Subject: H-COST: Theatre Mold Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Josh Webb Hi, I'm new to this list and I had a simple question for anyone who chooses to reply. Has anyone worked with a product called Theatre Mold. I'm told it is a fiber product that can be used to make armor, props and scenery. Any comments? Thanks. Joshua G. Webb Asst. Professor, Dept. of Visual and Performing Arts University of South Carolina Aiken 471 University Parkway, Aiken SC 29801 Office: 803/641-3343 Fax: 803/641-3691 E-mail: joshw@aiken.sc.edu "In the anguished, catastrophic times we live in, we feel an urgent need for theatre that is not overshadowed by events, but arouses deep echoes within us and predominates over our unsettled period." Antonin Artaud (1933) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 12:21:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25260 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:21:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02750; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:34:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA05688 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:33:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05676 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:33:55 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22112 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:33:54 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA00402 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:33:54 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:33:54 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Theatre Mold In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com If this is the stuff I think it is I had a friend work with it once. She loved it but it got everywhere and if the final product got wet, well, forget it, it is gone. I will forward your email to her to see it is the same stuff and let her get a hold of you privately. :) Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Josh Webb wrote: > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:27:24 -0400 > From: Josh Webb > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Theatre Mold > > > -Poster: Josh Webb > > Hi, > I'm new to this list and I had a simple question for anyone who > chooses to reply. Has anyone worked with a product called Theatre Mold. I'm > told it is a fiber product that can be used to make armor, props and > scenery. Any comments? Thanks. > > > > > Joshua G. Webb > Asst. Professor, Dept. of Visual and Performing Arts > University of South Carolina Aiken > 471 University Parkway, Aiken SC 29801 > Office: 803/641-3343 > Fax: 803/641-3691 > E-mail: joshw@aiken.sc.edu > > > "In the anguished, catastrophic times we live in, we feel an urgent need > for theatre that is not overshadowed by events, but arouses deep echoes > within us and predominates over our unsettled period." > Antonin Artaud (1933) > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 12:27:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31222 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:27:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03635; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:41:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06906 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:40:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06894 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:40:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from erin.excite.com ([198.3.99.254]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990831173924.IWRM1586.fortune@erin.excite.com> for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:39:24 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: HELP ! Gloves, Fans, Stockings Message-Id: <936121165.24434.978@excite.com> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 10:39:25 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" Hello! I've found blank paper fans at Pier 1 Imports. They come in various colors and sizes, and look like they'd be fun to play with. Not very expensive, either. Kate ---- StitchWitch Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim. - Santayana, Life of Reason, 1905 ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 13:19:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06835 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:19:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12853; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:32:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20742 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:31:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA20711 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:31:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:30:55 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199908310559.WAA24041@zeus.directcon.net> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 11:31:04 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Christmas in Coloma (Was elizabethans hanging things from their belts Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >At 11:19 PM 08/30/1999 -0700, you wrote: >> >>-Poster: "David S. Mallinak" >> >>" >> >>I enjoy playing servants and I can be persuaded with little trouble to >>play at >>events. >> >>You're hired! May I book you for, say, the Mists/Cynaugua war, >Renaissance Pleasure Faire North 5th weekend, and Christmas in Coloma? I >pay period wages; I believe a shilling a year for the first, prorated to >two days would be...drat! where's my multi-century currency exchanger when >I need it? > >Margo Anderson >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > Margo! Christmas in Coloma!?! Please tell us about it. I can stay at Ponderosa Pines and participate, or at least attend. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 13:33:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06847 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:33:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15341; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:47:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24508 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:46:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24495 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 12:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-229-186.s567.tnt6.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.229.186]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA09740 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:46:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000901bef3e2$5c616dc0$bae57ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: new corset thread Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:55:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > From each period, what constitutes a well fitted corset? I.E. what is the > thing supposed to do and how does the creator of such a garment go about > in technical terms of achieving it in modern day. > This changes dramatically throughout history. Could you narrow your scope for us? > Do any of you make a pocket for your corset to fit into your bodice? Where > do you put your pocket? Is this technique period? > I don't. It might be period for times other than what I do, but I haven't seen it for Elizabethan or American Revolutionary War, both the areas I'm familiar with. AND just because I haven't seen it, doesn't mean it wasn't used, just that I haven't seen it. Andrea > Inquiring minds want to know..... :) > > Sincerely, > F. Havas > ches@io.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 14:16:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06879 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:16:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21894; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:29:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA04322 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:28:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04313; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:27:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11LtZP-000ARD-0A; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:27:52 +0000 Message-ID: <4JfKtDAplCz3Iwja@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:13:45 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Kilt, Brat, "Saffron", "Leine..." Word time! In-Reply-To: <199908310824_MC2-82F7-4D50@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <199908310824_MC2-82F7-4D50@compuserve.com>, Melanie Wilson writes > >-Poster: Melanie Wilson > >Just to be difficult .... > >>Saffron: The *color*, in this case the spice prob'ly came first and >was well-known enough even to folk who couldn't afford it, to describe >the color. Which was achieved with *weld*, a local plant, not to be >confused with *woad* (which gives blue). > >I think the description was probably by those who could have known the >spice, however weld is rare in Scotland, a probably more so in the >highlands > >Traditional scottish yellows include. alder, ash, birch, nettles, ragwort, >yarrow to name a veryt few of the easiest to find ! > >>Oh yeah one little note about What They Wear Under Those Things: >it >is specified in the manual for military parade attire that >wearing >*anything* under a kilt is considered "out of uniform"! I >don't know >when that became Official. > >However that's lowlanders for you, there is records of short blue shorts >being worn by highlanders > >Mel Not on parade! At the risk of repeating myself, my sister-in-law was in a Highland OTC regiment, and those chaps were marched out over the mirror to check they were correctly (un)dressed. However, it is considered proper to wear underwear at mess occasions when ladies are present, or when dancing. Please remember this, especially if you are doing Highland dancing on a raised stage with the audience looking up. Yes, it happened in my group. Jean -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 14:32:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06912 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:32:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24112; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:45:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07874 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:43:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07860 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:43:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA29398 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:43:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA22636 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:43:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:43:55 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: Re: H-COST: new corset thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed OK...for Elizabethan corsets (1550-1600), my two primary goals are proper silhouette and comfort. For proper silhouette, the front of the corset has to be flat--this can be accomplished with 4 to 6 1/2 inch steel bones, solid poly boning, or a number of different things. The bosom should neither fall into the corset or spill out the top. Hunnisett Period Patterns for Stage & Screen gives a great illustration of how a n Elizabethan corset should shape the body when properly fit, and some common fitting problems. The shoulders should be back and the back straight--straps on your corset help with this. Comfort can be achieved by a number of means. Make sure that, if you have straps on your corset, they don't dig into the arms when you move your arms forward. Use breathable, natural materials for the corset; coutil breathes, is soft, and is a strong fabric as well. Also make sure that the corset is not too high on the sides, so that it doesn't dig into the underarms, and that it isn't too long in the waist so that it doesn't dig into the hips. Two great comfort-adders I've found are boned tabs and lengthening the corset in the center back. The latter adds great back support, and the boned tabs eliminate the corset biting into the waist, chafing around the waist, and bones poking anywhere. Speaking of bones, they should always be rounded & tipped at the ends, so that they don't poke through. There is nothing more uncomfortable than a pointy bit of steel jabbing your underarm when you can't get to it or remove it. Although I use channels sewn between the inner and outer layers of my corset to slip bones into, they are more secure and less likely to eventually work free if you use boning tape sewn to the corset and put the bones inside. I also make my corsets so that they fit with two inches of space at the center back. That way any, um, weight variations can be accomodated for. Corsets without a busk (using boning down the front instead) are also more comfortable, though they will usually end up curving out over the abdomen. If the corset has a deep center point and you want the bodice to stay straight at the bottom point, you'll want a busk. Hope this helps, Drea > > >From each period, what constitutes a well fitted corset? I.E. what is the > thing supposed to do and how does the creator of such a garment go about > in technical terms of achieving it in modern day. > > Do any of you make a pocket for your corset to fit into your bodice? Where > do you put your pocket? Is this technique period? > > Inquiring minds want to know..... :) > > Sincerely, > F. Havas > ches@io.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 14:37:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06922 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:37:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25019; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:51:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09390 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:50:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from exchange.aiken.sc.edu (aiken.sc.edu [129.252.188.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09381 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:50:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.252.178.234] (129.252.178.234 [129.252.178.234]) by exchange.aiken.sc.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id R9P4ZLRQ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:41:26 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4JfKtDAplCz3Iwja@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> References: <199908310824_MC2-82F7-4D50@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:46:10 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Josh Webb Subject: Re: H-COST: Kilt, Brat, "Saffron", "Leine..." Word time! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Josh Webb If my heritage allows me to recall, this practice of not dressing under ones kilt is known as going "regimental" which certainly gives it a military bent and would support the notion of underdressing for social occasions. This, obviously, would leave ones equipment unprotected hence certain piercings which allow it to be secured to the leg. J. Webb _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 14:59:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06951 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:59:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28295; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:13:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA14544 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:12:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14535 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:12:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p42.directcon.net [206.170.184.91]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01313 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:11:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:11:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908312011.NAA01313@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Christmas in Coloma (Was elizabethans hanging things from their belts Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >Margo! Christmas in Coloma!?! Please tell us about it. I can stay at >Ponderosa Pines and participate, or at least attend. > >LynnD I believe it runs for two weekends in December. The town is decorated for Christmas, there are carolers and other entertainments, and wrathmaking workshops. I haven't participated before, I just completed the docent training this spring, so I don't have all the details. I'm going to be talking to our volunteer coordinator this week, so I'll try to find out more. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 15:05:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06965 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:05:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29345; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:19:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA15776 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:17:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15761 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:17:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p42.directcon.net [206.170.184.91]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01942 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908312016.NAA01942@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Kilt, Brat, "Saffron", "Leine..." Word time! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson This, obviously, would leave ones equipment unprotected hence >certain piercings which allow it to be secured to the leg. > Oh, please, not the "Prince Albert" story again! Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 15:22:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06999 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:22:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02384; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:35:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19866 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:34:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19855 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:34:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09825 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:34:12 -0400 Message-ID: <37CC3C48.9E0A105E@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:35:58 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Kilt and and unruly, um, kilts References: <199908310824_MC2-82F7-4D50@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Josh Webb wrote: > occasions. This, obviously, would leave ones equipment unprotected hence > certain piercings which allow it to be secured to the leg. Now, this is certainly something that I have trouble believing. I've heard it a few times over the years, and although I know that having oneself stand at attention at inappropriate times is embarrassing, I cannot imagine using a pierced ring through the flesh to tie it down. Think of all the opportunities for ripping that ring out by accident! (Needing to run or jump suddenly, before checking that the string tension is loose enough; heck, even sitting down would be perilous.) Not to mention the pressure of having the thing tied down when it wants to stand up -- I understand from my male friends that this would be excruciating. That sounds like way too much risk to me, and probably that goes double for you men out there. Anyone have evidence of this as a common (non-fetish) thing? cv -- You need height to prove that you have Leadership; you need money to communicate your views to the voters by means of TV commercials that have the subtlety of a Teletubbies episode, but less intellectual content. -- Dave Barry _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 15:24:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07007 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:24:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02724; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:37:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA20317 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:36:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wodc7mr4.ffx.ops.us.uu.net (wodc7mr4.ffx.ops.us.uu.net [192.48.96.29]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20309 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:36:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jwilbur1 by wodc7mr4.ffx.ops.us.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: og3pool109-80.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.109.80]) id QQherq25681 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:36:09 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:41:57 -0400 Subject: Re: H-COST: Blackwork Cuffs and collar (fwd) Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" Hello, I am also working on a blackwork collar and cuffs for a Tudor outfit. I'm using the same fabric that the rest of the shirt will be made of, which is a linen/rayon, and black silk for the embroidery. I'm not sure that a specific thread count would have been used in period, since the embroidery would have been worked on whatever linen that was used for the shirt. I'm not even sure what the thread count is on the fabric I'm using! It definitely is not an evenweave. My advice would be to use the same fabric that would be used for the shirt, using the weave as a guide (and make sure you have good strong light! I've got good eyesight but not everyone does... and trust me, this will strain your eyes!). Hope this helps! --Jessica > > -Poster: ches@io.com > > Can anyone help him with his question? I will foward any responses if you > want to send them to me privatel. > > Sincerely, > F. Havas > ches@io.com > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 09:41:08 -0500 > From: Brent Ryder > Subject: Blackwork Cuffs and collar > > > I am thinking of doing a set of Blackwork cuffs and a collar for Kingdom A&S. I > have a picture of a Holbein painting that I am going to use as a pattern. > > Does anyone know what type of cloth and the thread count that would have been > used? > > Borek > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 15:38:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07020 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:38:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04881; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:51:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23642 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:50:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23618 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 14:50:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p42.directcon.net [206.170.184.91]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA05448 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:49:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 13:49:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199908312049.NAA05448@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Christmas in Coloma (Was elizabethans hanging things from their belts Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I said... >I believe it runs for two weekends in December. The town is decorated for >Christmas, there are carolers and other entertainments, and wrathmaking >workshops. Okay, actually the workshops will only make you slightly cranky..... That's *wreathmaking*, obviously. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 15:50:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07036 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:50:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06696; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:02:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26463 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:01:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26453 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:01:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA23240 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:06:16 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:06:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: Re: H-COST: new corset thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Speaking of comfort in Elizabethan corsets, I have a problem that I was wondering if anybody else had, had addressed, or knew of any solutions for: I have a mild case of Scoliosis; my spine is not straight, but rather has a gentle left-to-right s-curve. When I wear the well-boned Elizabethan bodice (very nearly a corset, though not quite proper construction) I made in my first year of re-creation, the structure of the thing forces my spine into something more approaching allignment. This makes certain muscle groups in my back work in ways that they're not used to working, and I end up with serious pain in the muscles on one side. Is there any way of fitting the corset better to avoid the pain, or should I just give up on the idea of wearing well-boned corsets for any length of time? Emma, the highly reluctant to suffer for fashion (also the surprised to discover another Emma on the list!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 16:14:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07074 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:14:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09768; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:27:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA02360 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:26:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02347 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:26:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA04475 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA00006 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:26:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:26:34 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: Re: H-COST: new corset thread In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed I, too have scoliosis (a 22 degree S-curve). I strongly suggest trying a boned-tab corset, perhaps with an extended section on the lower back. Also,experiment with different lacing tightnesses; you may get away with a looser fit, if it supports you in the front. Straps will also help, both with spreading out the pressure on the back and helping support the bust if you use a looser fit. You might try poly-boning a corset; it is not as supportive unless the corset is pretty much fully boned, but is more flexible than spring steel. I have a fully-boned, boned-tab corset boned with poly boning, and my back doesn't complain at all. I wish you good luck, Drea > > > Speaking of comfort in Elizabethan corsets, I have a problem that I was > wondering if anybody else had, had addressed, or knew of any solutions > for: I have a mild case of Scoliosis; my spine is not straight, but rather > has a gentle left-to-right s-curve. When I wear the well-boned > Elizabethan bodice (very nearly a corset, though not quite proper > construction) I made in my first year of re-creation, the structure of the > thing forces my spine into something more approaching allignment. This > makes certain muscle groups in my back work in ways that they're not used > to working, and I end up with serious pain in the muscles on one side. > > Is there any way of fitting the corset better to avoid the pain, or should > I just give up on the idea of wearing well-boned corsets for any length of > time? > > Emma, the highly reluctant to suffer for fashion (also the surprised to > discover another Emma on the list!) > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 16:53:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07123 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:53:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16052; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:06:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11166 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:05:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spamgaac.compuserve.com (as-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.217.146]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11121 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:05:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id SAA14174 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:05:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:04:09 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Highland underwear To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199908311804_MC2-831E-B353@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id QAA11123 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson >Not on parade! At the risk of repeating myself, my sister-in-law was in a Highland OTC regiment, and those chaps were marched out over the mirror to check they were correctly (un)dressed But kilts in regiments are mostly worn by lowlanders who wish they were highlanders (duck) Actually I was refering to great kilts & traditional use, not the rather stange way the English banned the kilt except for soldiers type wear... never could figure that out ! Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 17:23:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07155 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:23:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20125; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:36:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA18759 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:35:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA18746 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 16:35:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990831223526.9578.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.22.77.117] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:35:26 PDT Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:35:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: H-COST: Gypsy pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Ebay is bad... I have discovered this *grin* I found a BEAUTIFUL gypsy costume on eBay today... so now I must find the pattern for one... does anyone know where I could find a pattern for the really frouffy (is that a word?) gypsy dancer outfits? Please? Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 19:08:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07324 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:08:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03642; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:20:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA08969 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:16:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp6.jps.net (smtp6.jps.net [209.63.224.103]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08959 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:16:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.239.222.67] (209-239-222-67.sea.jps.net [209.239.222.67]) by smtp6.jps.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA28130; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:16:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909010016.RAA28130@smtp6.jps.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:19:19 -0700 Subject: H-COST: 19th Century Children's Clothing From: "R.L. Shep" To: "h-costume" CC: dale Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3018964759_255346_MIME_Part" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3018964759_255346_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY MUSEUM OF ART DEPARTMENT OF COSTUMES AND TEXTILES EXHIBITION ANNOUNCEMENT THE FASHIONABLE CHILD OF THE NINETEENTH CENTURY August 12, 1999 - January 17, 2000 Through the presentation of 30 costumes for boys and girls dating from 1800 to 1900, the exhibition explores the relationship between art and children?s clothing: pictorial images variously influenced, and were influenced by, the dress of real children. Highlights include a beautiful silk dress from the early 1820s, three printed cotton dresses from the 1830s, a boy?s plaid dress from the 1860s, a complete boy?s kilt ensemble from the 1880s, and two charming examples of "fancy dress" and a pink silk "smock" dress from the 1890s. Drawn entirely from the permanent collection, the majority of the objects in this exhibition were the gift of the late Mrs. Helen Larson whose generosity has greatly enhanced the department?s collections. The exhibition is dedicated to her memory. Organized by Dale Carolyn Gluckman, curator of costumes and textiles. There is a family guide with six black and white photographs of paintings of children in the museum?s collection. For further information please contact the department at (323) 857-6081; email: jdsierra@lacma.org. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com --MS_Mac_OE_3018964759_255346_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable 19th Century Children's Clothing
THE LOS ANGELES COUNTY MUSEUM OF ART
DEPARTMENT OF COSTUMES AND TEXTILES

EXHIBITION ANNOUNCEMENT

THE FASHIONABLE CHILD OF THE NINETEENTH CENTURY
August 12, 1999 - January 17, 2000

Through the presentation of 30 costumes for boys and girls dating from 1800= to
1900, the exhibition explores the relationship between art and children?s clothing: pictorial images variously influenced, and were influenced by, t= he
dress of real children. Highlights include a beautiful silk dress from th= e
early 1820s, three printed cotton dresses from the 1830s, a boy?s plaid dre= ss
from the 1860s, a complete boy?s kilt ensemble from the 1880s, and two cha= rming
examples of "fancy dress" and a pink silk "smock" dres= s from the 1890s. Drawn
entirely from the permanent collection, the majority of the objects in this=
exhibition were the gift of the late Mrs. Helen Larson whose generosity has=
greatly enhanced the department?s collections. The exhibition is dedicated= to
her memory. Organized by Dale Carolyn Gluckman, curator of costumes and textiles. There is a family guide with six black and white photographs of<= BR> paintings of children in the museum?s collection. For further information<= BR> please contact the department at (323) 857-6081; email: jdsierra@lacma.org.
~!~ R.L.Shep
http://www.rlshep.com
 --MS_Mac_OE_3018964759_255346_MIME_Part-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 19:20:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07330 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 19:20:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05568; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:33:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11139 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:30:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11133 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 18:30:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990901003023.QAPU410.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a>; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 17:30:23 -0700 Message-ID: <01ed01bef40e$68c4ccc0$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: "Sewing" , , "HCostume" , , Subject: H-COST: New Simplicity Patterns esp. Zoot and Renaissance Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 20:10:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" Apologies for multiple postings...but these topics where brought up on almost all of these lists in recent months...so here goes... Well, seems like the Retro collection is as close as you can get. There is a new pattern out for a men's suit that with just a little tweaking could be a good Zoot Suit. It's Pattern # 8879. From what I can see in the sketches, the pants would need to come up higher on the waist and the waist band removed. The Jacket needs a wider lapel and a bit more shoulder and bagginess to the body. For those that were looking for the new Renaissance and Celtic patterns, they are up online now also. http://www.simplicity.com Regards, ~Kyna _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 22:01:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07697 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:01:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25443; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:14:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA04777 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:13:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA04764 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:13:04 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:13:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 10036 invoked from network); 1 Sep 1999 03:14:46 -0000 Received: from 20.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.183.240.20) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 1999 03:14:46 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990831201452.3b37abbe@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Hiring servants, was Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 11:19 PM 08/30/1999 -0700, you wrote: >>-Poster: "David S. Mallinak" >>"I enjoy playing servants and I can be persuaded with little trouble to play at events. > >You're hired! May I book you for, say, the Mists/Cynaugua war, >Renaissance Pleasure Faire North 5th weekend, and Christmas in Coloma? I >pay period wages; I believe a shilling a year for the first, prorated to >two days would be...drat! where's my multi-century currency exchanger when >I need it? > >Margo Anderson Now, now, not so fast, Margo. Maybe we need to bid on David's services. There are several of us who could use a sturdy groom. And Michealmas hiring day is coming soon! Master David, I would pay thee two pounds a year plus livery [see, I *did* keep it costume-related! ] plus full board & lodging and will provide thee a horse with its yearly keeping since I must travel with the Queen where e're she goes. What say you? Joan Jurancich aka Mistress Blanche Parry, chief Gentlewoman to the Queen [RPFN] joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 22:01:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07701 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:01:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25440; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:14:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA04796 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:13:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA04780 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 21:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 10036 invoked from network); 1 Sep 1999 03:14:46 -0000 Received: from 20.240.3-5.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.183.240.20) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 1999 03:14:46 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990831201452.3b37abbe@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Hiring servants, was Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 11:19 PM 08/30/1999 -0700, you wrote: >>-Poster: "David S. Mallinak" >>"I enjoy playing servants and I can be persuaded with little trouble to play at events. > >You're hired! May I book you for, say, the Mists/Cynaugua war, >Renaissance Pleasure Faire North 5th weekend, and Christmas in Coloma? I >pay period wages; I believe a shilling a year for the first, prorated to >two days would be...drat! where's my multi-century currency exchanger when >I need it? > >Margo Anderson Now, now, not so fast, Margo. Maybe we need to bid on David's services. There are several of us who could use a sturdy groom. And Michealmas hiring day is coming soon! Master David, I would pay thee two pounds a year plus livery [see, I *did* keep it costume-related! ] plus full board & lodging and will provide thee a horse with its yearly keeping since I must travel with the Queen where e're she goes. What say you? Joan Jurancich aka Mistress Blanche Parry, chief Gentlewoman to the Queen [RPFN] joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Aug 31 23:55:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07897 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:55:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05405; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:08:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA19972 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:07:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (mta3.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.141]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19967 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:07:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-145.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.145]) by mta3.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09741 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 22:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37CBEE75.EDB06B58@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 15:02:21 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: antarctica References: <000d01bef108$e5f7b080$410bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Hope wrote: > Thanks for *much* better accuracy! You're welcome of course, but I must admit to embarrassment. Looking back on the post, I misspelled pole as pool and poll (twice!). :-} Further evidence that writing late at night is not conducive to good spelling (something I strive for) and spellcheck doesn't always help. > I never saw the BBC Masterpiece Theatre series on the Antarctic Expeditions I'd encourage evryone to watch it. It was fascinating and very well done. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 01:17:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08078 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 01:17:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10386; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:30:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA28322 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:29:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28311 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:29:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28627 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-141.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.141]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA24652 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009801bef444$1931cc40$adc3fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Ciba Reviws Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:33:42 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Can you tell me what this CIBA thing is? Is it a book, magazine, convention, etc? Michelle -----Original Message----- From: Melanie Wilson To: INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Monday, August 30, 1999 10:22 AM Subject: H-COST: Ciba Reviws > >-Poster: Melanie Wilson > >No a complete list, but the early and most interesting ones :) > >Mel > >A list of principal contents of CIBA Review > > > > 1 Medieval Dyeing > 2 India, its Dyers, and its Colour Symbolism > 3 Wall-coverings > 4 Purple >5 Tapestry > 6 Silks of Lyons > 7 Scarlet > 8 The Dressing of Hides in the Stone Age > 9 Dyeing and Tanning in Classical Antiquity >10 Trade Routes and Dye Markets in the Middle Ages >11 The Early History of Silk >12 Weaving and Dyeing in Ancient Egypt and Babylon >1 3 Guild Emblems and their Significance > 14 Cloth-making in Flanders > 15 Pile Carpets of the Ancient Orient >16 The Loom > 1 7 Dress Fashions of the Italian Renaissance > 18 Great Masters of Dyeing in Eighteenth-Century >France > 19 The Exchange >20 The Development of the Textile Crafts in Spain >21 Weaving and Dyeing in North Africa >2 2 Crafts and the Zodiac >23 The European Carpet >24 The Basle Ribbon Industry > 25 Paris Fashion Artists of the Eighteenth Century >26 Medieval Cloth Printing in Europe >27 The Textile Trades in Medieval Florence >28 The Spinning Wheel > 29 Venetian Silks > 30 The Essentials of Handicrafts and the Craft of >Weaving among Primitive Peoples > 31 Textile Printing in Eighteenth Century France > 32 Children's Dress > 33 Bark Fabrics of the South Seas >34 Development of Footwear >35 The Hat >36 Indian Costumes >37 Textile Ornament >38 Neckties >39 Madder and Turkey Red >40 Turkestan and its Textile Crafts >41 The Human Figure in Textile Art >42 The Umbrella >43 Early Oriental Textiles >44 Ikats >45 Crafts of the Puszta Herdsmen >46 Crinoline and Bustle >47 Cloth Merchants of the Renaissance as Patrons of Art >48 The History of the Textile Crafts in Holland >49 Flax and Hemp >50 Medieval Embroidery >51 Fashions and Textiles at the Court of Burgundy >52 The Ship of the Dead in Textile Art >53 Silk Moths >54 Basketry and Woven Fabrics of the European Stone and Bronze Ages >55 Swiss Peasant Costumes >56 Soap >57 Medieval Dress >58 Batiks >59 The Reel >60 Roumanian Peasant Textiles >61 Gloves >62 Swiss Fairs and Markets in the Middle Ages >63 Basic Textile Techniques >64 Cotton and Cotton Trade in the Middle Ages >65 The Cloth Trade and the Fairs of Champagne >66 Peasant Textile Art >67 Colbert and the French Wool Manufacture >68 Dyeing among Primitive Peoples >69 Textile Art in Sixteenth-Century France >70 Textile Art in Ancient Mexico >71 Costumes of Porcelain Statuettes >72 Paper >73 Lace >74 Australia, the Land of Wool >75 Byzantine Silks >76 Early American Textiles >77 Flags >78 Fashions and Textiles of Queen Elizabeth's Reign >79 Swiss Linen Embroidery >80 Lucchese Silks >8 I The Early History of Tanning 82 Water >83 The Silk and Velvet Industries of Crefeld >84 Maori Textile Techniques >85 Indigo >86 Scottish Highland Dress >87 Rubber >88 Swedish Peasant Textiles >89 The Handkerchief go Textile Arts of the North American >Indians >90 The Linen Industry of St Gall >92 Aluminium-Surface' Treatment and Colouring >93 Uniforms >94 Alaska Sealskins >95 Cotton >96 Velvet >97 New Orleans, Centre of the Cotton Trade >98 Persian Textiles >99 Hard Fibres >100 Micro-organic Attack on Textiles and Leather >101 Chromium >102 Turkish Embroideries >I 03 Textiles and Dyestuffs at the Frankfort Fairs > 104 Plangi-Tie and Dye Work >105 Textile Printing in Switzerland >106 The Stocking >107 Screen Printing >108 jute and its substitutes >109 Wood >110 Damask >111 Spun Silk >112 pH >I I 3 The Wool Fibre >114 Fur >115 Sir -William Henry Perkin >116 Coir >117 Tablet Weaving >118 Tanning in Modern Times >119 Zurich Silks >120 Cibacron Dyes: Special Number >121 Waste Disposal in the Textile, Leather and Paper Industries >122 The Shirt >123 Ramie >124 Men's Dress >125 Roller Printing >126 Furnishing Fabrics >I 27 Polyamide and Polyester Fibres >128 Copper >129 Felt >130 The English Wool Industry >131 CIBA-75 years > 132 Static Electricity > 133 Coptic Textiles > 134 Physical Textile Testing >135 Rouen-French Textile Centre >1 36 Peruvian Textile techniques >137 Fibres from Addition Polymers >138 Work Clothing >139 Chlorine >140 Fluorescence >141 Mixture Fabrics > >1961/1 English Chintz; 2 Colour and its Measurement; 3 Gold and Textiles; 4 >Machine-made Carpets; 5 Alchemy and Colour; 6 Textile Arts of the >Araucanians > >1962/ 1 > Textile Research Institutes; 2 Manchester-The Origins of Cotton-opolis; 3 >Travel and Travel Outfits; 4 The Electron Microscope; 5 Hemp; 6 Assessment >of Modification of Wool During Wet-Processing > >1963/ 1 Artists' colours; 2 Early Chinese Silks; 3 The Catalan Textile >Industry; 4 colours and Patterns in the Animal Kingdom; 5 Glass Fibres; 6 >The Plant Laboratory > >1964/ 1 Dry-cleaning; 2 Dyeing Theory; 3 The Polyolefins; 4 The Physiology >of Clothing; 5 Energy; 6 Knitting Techniques > >1965/ 1 Nonwovens; 2 Flax; 3 Yarn and Thread; 4 Sportswear; 5-6 Sulphur > >1966/1 Slovene Textiles; 2 The Mechanical Loom; 3 Chromatography; 4 >Radioactivity > >1967/1 Animal Motifs on Fabrics; 2 Artificial Silk; 3 Oil from the Earth; 4 >Japanese Resist Dyeing Techniques > >1968/1 The Evolution of Mills and Factories; 2 Textiles in Biblical Times; >I Tents; 4 Quality Control and Statistics > >1969/1 Alginates; 2 Contemporary Greek Handweaving; 3 Bamboo > >And here a list of those I think I still have in stock > > 25 Paris Fashion Artists of the Eighteenth Century 32 >Children's Dress >60 Roumanian Peasant Textiles >64 Cotton and Cotton Trade in the Middle Ages >65 The Cloth Trade and the Fairs of Champagne >67 Colbert and the French Wool Manufacture >69 Textile Art in Sixteenth-Century France >70 Textile Art in Ancient Mexico >75 Byzantine Silks >76 Early American Textiles >83 The Silk and Velvet Industries of Crefeld >84 Maori Textile Techniques >85 Indigo >88 Swedish Peasant Textiles >89 The Handkerchief go Textile Arts of the North American >Indians >90 The Linen Industry of St Gall >93 Uniforms >96 Velvet >97 New Orleans, Centre of the Cotton Trade >I 03 Textiles and Dyestuffs at the Frankfort Fairs >111 Spun Silk >I I 3 The Wool Fibre >114 Fur >133 Coptic Textiles > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 01:17:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08082 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 01:17:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10350; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:30:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA28305 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:29:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28290 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:29:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28604 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:29:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-141.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.141]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA24636 for ; Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:29:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009701bef444$184e7120$adc3fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:31:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Then, it should work to use the new Elizabeth, Simplicity, without the slope in the breast area to make the corset in the Janet arnold book, right? (The one with the boning absent where the breasts would be) Michelle -----Original Message----- From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Monday, August 30, 1999 9:16 AM Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust > >-Poster: aleed > > >> Similar to the Tudor bodice right? > >yup. > > >> So what you are saying is that it is pretty much the equivalent of >> wearing two bodices, instead of a corset and bodice? You wouldn't wear a >> corset, a petticoat bodice and a bodice on the outside, right? 2 or 2, not >> 3 > > >I don't know how they wore them back then--I myself wear it with a kirtle >and gown usually, without a corset. I have worn it over a corset when I'm >wearing fancy Elizabethan court dress. > > >Drea > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 01:43:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08132 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 01:43:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11754; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:57:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA01002 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:56:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from falcon.canfield.com (falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA00997 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:56:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Leslie (u6-61.wa.net [206.191.135.125]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA17014 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 00:02:04 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990831234644.0371a480@mail.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslie@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1999 23:56:25 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: Gypsy costume In-Reply-To: <199909010629.AAA28361@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Leslie Helms Sarah, you'll need to elaborate on the kind of Gypsy outfit you want. Are you looking for historical authenticity? If so, forget almost everything you've seen; it's almost all Hollywood Gypsy. If, on the other hand, you're talking about the fanciful outfits, try www.birchstreetclothing.com for a good Gypsy skirt that flares and floofs wonderfully. Or, if you want information on how to make the Dunyavi Gypsy style superfull skirts, ask me offline. It isn't a historical topic. But they're very fun to make and wear! Historical Gypsy styles for any particular Gypsy group are usually a hodgepodge of designs from the areas that they lived and travelled. Documentation is sparse before photography. I've seen old paintings captioned as showing "Gypsy bands" or such, but I think those are often guesses or catchalls for any unknown people who seem to be wandering through someone else's pictures. Leslie leslie@canfield.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME