From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 08:29:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05286 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:29:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02932; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:43:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA28261 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:41:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28247 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:41:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA07404 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:41:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA06767 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:41:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:41:57 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust In-Reply-To: <009701bef444$184e7120$adc3fea9@gunsafes> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed I haven't seen the actual pattern...but from the looks of the pattern cover, yes, that should work. Drea On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Michelle wrote: > > -Poster: "Michelle" > > Then, it should work to use the new Elizabeth, Simplicity, without the slope > in the breast area to make the corset in the Janet arnold book, right? (The > one with the boning absent where the breasts would be) > Michelle > -----Original Message----- > From: aleed > To: h-costume@indra.com > Date: Monday, August 30, 1999 9:16 AM > Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust > > > > > >-Poster: aleed > > > > > >> Similar to the Tudor bodice right? > > > >yup. > > > > > >> So what you are saying is that it is pretty much the equivalent of > >> wearing two bodices, instead of a corset and bodice? You wouldn't wear a > >> corset, a petticoat bodice and a bodice on the outside, right? 2 or 2, > not > >> 3 > > > > > >I don't know how they wore them back then--I myself wear it with a kirtle > >and gown usually, without a corset. I have worn it over a corset when I'm > >wearing fancy Elizabethan court dress. > > > > > >Drea > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 08:56:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05307 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:56:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05253; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:09:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02671 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:08:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02649 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:08:33 -0600 (MDT) From: DRGurley@aol.com Received: from DRGurley@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6XKQa05147 (4234) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:07:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:07:52 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsy pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DRGurley@aol.com In a message dated 8/31/99 5:36:26 PM Central Daylight Time, sarah_and_pooh@yahoo.com writes: > Ebay is bad... I have discovered this *grin* Advice from a serious ebay addict: get out while you can! :-) Seriously, I have found some wonderful deals on costume pieces and patterns within the last six months...from boots to a Pendragon bodice that I desperately wanted to corset kits. It's definitely a place to keep an eye on for additions to your garb wardrobe. (BTW--If anyone on this list is responsible for selling me any of the items I've purchased, THANK YOU!) DaniG _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 09:02:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05319 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:02:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05828; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:15:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03861 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:14:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03847 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:14:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.149] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11MB9m-0006A2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 07:14:35 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 07:13:06 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: WAS: Re: H-COST: Gypsy pattern, NOW: EBay In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" So where in the EBay site does one discover 'period' [whatever period] garments, please? I was looking through the fabric pages... . Thank you. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 09:10:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05339 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:10:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06518; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:23:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA05435 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:22:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05427 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:22:29 -0600 (MDT) From: DRGurley@aol.com Received: from DRGurley@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6UVJa07549 (4234) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:21:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:21:51 EDT Subject: Re: WAS: Re: H-COST: Gypsy pattern, NOW: EBay To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DRGurley@aol.com In a message dated 9/1/99 9:15:32 AM Central Daylight Time, cjcannon@greymists.com writes: > So where in the EBay site does one discover 'period' [whatever period] > garments, please? I was looking through the fabric pages... . Thank you. > Carol Carol, it's mostly a luck thing. I search on things like "renaissance", "costume", "garb", "corset", etc. Some of the "custom made costumes" are not quite up to my standards (no offense meant to anyone on this list who sells on ebay) but there are a couple of people clearing out their costume closets for whatever reason. I think there is also a section on patterns and historical clothing. Good luck, but it's addictive. :-) Dani G _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 09:26:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05383 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:26:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08780; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:40:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA09016 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:38:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA09009; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:38:58 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:38:58 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909011438.IAA09009@net.indra.com> To: Costume list From: Karalee Larsen Pugmire Subject: H-COST: Got beets, now what? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Karalee Larsen Pugmire A friend has had an over abundance of beets grow in her garden this year and she has a question. She's heard that beets were used for dying. If that is true, where would we look for information on mordants, and all the other stuff needed to dye and fix a peice of cloth? Karalee Larsen Pugmire karalee.larsen@usa.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 10:29:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05522 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:29:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18695; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:42:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA24655 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:41:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24632 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:40:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pounce.excite.com ([199.172.152.99]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with ESMTP id <19990901154029.OEIB2517.gigi@pounce.excite.com> for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:40:29 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: WAS: Re: H-COST: Gypsy pattern, NOW: EBay Message-Id: <936200429.11992.494@excite.com> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 08:40:29 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "StitchWitch" > > So where in the EBay site does one discover 'period' [whatever period] > > garments, please? I was looking through the fabric pages... . Thank you. > > Carol I've had some luck going to the antiques section of the main menu, then to the fabrics sub-section. There are a lot of linens and such, but every now and then, a costume treasure. Kate ---- StitchWitch Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim. - Santayana, Life of Reason, 1905 ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 10:48:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05544 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:48:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21535; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:01:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA19456 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:00:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19438 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:00:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA16715.; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:05:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:59:18 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:58:59 +0100 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Re. Christening gown Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id KAA19448 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" I second Kat's comments about the Edward V! Prayer Book - nothing to do with the king's own baptism! It's my understanding that, once the practice of swaddling had died out, very young babies (of the wealthier classes, at least) were dressed in very long clothes for everyday wear, so the Christening gown would simply be a "best" version of this. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 11:52:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05615 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:52:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16707; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:33:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21985 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:31:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21970 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 09:31:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p9.directcon.net [206.170.184.58]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19647 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 08:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909011530.IAA19647@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST:Necklines below bust Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:31 PM 08/31/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Michelle" > >Then, it should work to use the new Elizabeth, Simplicity, without the slope >in the breast area to make the corset in the Janet arnold book, right? (The >one with the boning absent where the breasts would be) If you're a B-cup or less, yes, it should work. More than that and you will probably need to change the angle of the shoulder strap. Also, the neckline will need to be lowered several inches. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 12:07:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05645 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:07:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02254; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:11:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07096 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:09:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07090 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:09:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p4.directcon.net [206.170.184.53]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA02436 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:08:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 10:08:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909011708.KAA02436@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: WAS: Re: H-COST: Gypsy pattern, NOW: EBay Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 07:13 AM 09/01/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > So where in the EBay site does one discover 'period' [whatever period] >garments, please? I was looking through the fabric pages... . Thank you. > Carol There is no specific costume category on Ebay, although there ought to be. If you search on "costume" alone you'll get thousands of hits for costume jewelry. I've seen costumes in the vintage sections, regular clothing, bridal, and collectibles. You really have to search on things like "rennaissance costume" , and expect to see some really wonky examples thereof. Pricing can range from very good to outrageous, depending on how many people are bidding. I find that the prices on any fabric I would want tend to be ridiculous, and costume patterns that you can get at JoAnne's $.99 sale are selling for up to $20. Also be warned that Ebay buying is a case of caveat emptor. I have seen "medieval" costumes that would make an SCA newbie blush, and on the other hand, I've seen 1840's lingerie labeled 1950's. You have to know about what you're buying, or just not care. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 12:25:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05656 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:25:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05742; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:36:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13078 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:34:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13071 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:34:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA10981 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:39:30 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:39:29 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Hiring servants, was Re: H-COST: elizabethans hanging things from their belts In-Reply-To: <2.2.16.19990831201452.3b37abbe@mail2.quiknet.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Wow! I'm sold! Where do you live? Emma > Now, now, not so fast, Margo. Maybe we need to bid on David's services. > There are several of us who could use a sturdy groom. And Michealmas hiring > day is coming soon! > > Master David, I would pay thee two pounds a year plus livery [see, I *did* > keep it costume-related! ] plus full board & lodging and will provide > thee a horse with its yearly keeping since I must travel with the Queen > where e're she goes. What say you? > Joan Jurancich > aka Mistress Blanche Parry, chief Gentlewoman to the Queen [RPFN] > joanj@quiknet.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 12:25:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05660 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:25:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05739; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:36:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13103 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:35:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from luna.worldonline.nl (luna.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13093 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 11:35:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by luna.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA04445 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:35:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp233-239.worldonline.nl [195.241.233.239]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA00291 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:34:57 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909011734.TAA00291@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Wardrobe Place Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:45:24 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Karen wrote: > I was in London just this last February and much to my dismay, I found > that Wardrobe Place is in the middle of being redeveloped. The lovely and > picturesque courtyard which I found on my first few trips to London is > now being torn down and built up with what I expect will be nasty modern > buildings. You can't even really go into the courtyard because it is a > construction site and you need permission and safety gear. Oh no, they did it again. St. > Andrews-by-Wardrobe, a church just next door, had a photographic display > of some of the urban archeology which was done just as the 17th-18th > century buildings were being torn down and which show some of the remains > of the old Wardrobe which were found under them. All that is probably > covered up with modern excressences by now. The Old City is still worth a > look-see if you want a flavor of Old London. They haven't ruined > everything....yet........ Last time I was there was in 1991 and it still was the same as the first time in 1968: the Youth Hostel, the Breakfast Place opposite, manned by loud Italians, the little shops and offices. Are you telling me they have gone too. What about the beautiful pub at the head of Carter Lane near Blackfriars? Shame, Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 14:11:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05946 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:11:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23802; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:24:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06877 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:21:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06871 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:21:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02063 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-89.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.89]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA20236 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:21:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00f601bef4b0$07e4a900$cdadfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Gypsy pattern Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:27:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Sarah, There are a couple of pages of patterns for sale in the AlterYears catalog. (I don't really recommend ordering from them if you don't have a couple of months to wait for your order.) I think there are some in the Amazon Dry Goods catalog too. Michelle > >-Poster: Sarah Toney >I found a BEAUTIFUL gypsy costume on eBay today... so >now I must find the pattern for one... does anyone >know where I could find a pattern for the really >frouffy (is that a word?) gypsy dancer outfits? >Please? > >Sarah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 14:22:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05965 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:22:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26363; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:36:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09506 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:33:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09478 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:33:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06658 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:33:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-89.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.89]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27860 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <012701bef4b1$a1c6c660$cdadfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: WAS: Re: H-COST: Gypsy pattern, NOW: EBay Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:38:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" I have been thinking about this. People tend to make more costumes as their shape or size changes. Which means, they end up with a box or closet full of stuff they wont or can't use. Why don't more people swap? I think it would be fun. I have given away a few of my things but, I would have rather traded. (Not that I didn't enjoy helping the new-to-fair people...) I have noticed that on both the SCA garb and H-Cost list, when someone mentions having anything that doesn't fit them anymore, there seems to be at least 2 people that ask about it. However, there is that 'standards' problem. > >Carol, it's mostly a luck thing. I search on things like "renaissance", >"costume", "garb", "corset", etc. Some of the "custom made costumes" are not >quite up to my standards (no offense meant to anyone on this list who sells >on ebay) but there are a couple of people clearing out their costume closets >for whatever reason. > >I think there is also a section on patterns and historical clothing. > >Good luck, but it's addictive. :-) >Dani G > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 14:37:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06010 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:37:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29613; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:50:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12543 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:46:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu (mailhub.iastate.edu [129.186.1.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12522 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:46:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from H59013.iastate.edu (costumes.center.iastate.edu [129.186.127.4]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA19297 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:46:42 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990901142611.009484e0@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> X-Sender: djnash@djnash.mail.iastate.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 14:46:41 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Doris J Nash Subject: H-COST: Lacing with buttons Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Doris J Nash Hello List! I hope someone has a solution to a problem I'm having. I'm making a version of the Shinrone Gown to wear this weekend and I'm using buttons to lace up the front of the bodice. After getting the 2-dozen little buggers on last night, I discovered that the cording slips off the buttons rather easily. The buttons are 3/8" shank buttons in silver-toned metal. The buttons would pull over, and the cord slipped off. I then tried to "crimp" the shanks, squeezing gently with pliers. That helped a bit, but I was hoping someone on the list could give me a tip or 3 on the subject. Would one type or size of cording work better than another? Or is there something else I can do to the buttons to make this more secure in closing? Thanks for any suggestions! Doris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 14:38:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06017 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:38:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29784; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:51:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13053 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:48:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13038 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:48:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA13485 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:48:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-89.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.89]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA08683 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:48:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <013201bef4b3$d565e260$cdadfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Got beets, now what? Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:54:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" I think warming with vinegar in your beet-water mixture should set the color well enough. Every year, when I decorate Easter eggs, I use onion skins. This is how I do it: Simmer skins in water (enough to cover) until skins are transparant, take out skins. Put new skins in, again simmer until transparant. Doing it in stages allows for a darker dye (smaller amount of water, otherwise you dilute the color). Add one quarter to one half a cup of vinegar to the pot. You can simmer the eggs with the color or cook them and let them sit in the cool water. (You can put a leaf, flower, papercut against the shell and wrap it tightly with a piece of nylon stocking to hold it in position. This makes a pretty decoration. Just make sure the plant pieces are edible. Don't poison yourself.) I took a class on cooking for children. During the class we had a special unit on Easter egg dying naturally. You can color them with carots, beets, etc. too. There were a list of veggies and these were on it. No matter which veggie you used, it pretty much works the same way as I described above. If it colors eggs, why wouldn't it work for your fabric? > >-Poster: Karalee Larsen Pugmire > >A friend has had an over abundance of beets grow in her garden this year >and she has a question. She's heard that beets were used for dying. If that >is true, where would we look for information on mordants, and all the other >stuff needed to dye and fix a peice of cloth? > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 14:46:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06059 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:46:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01346; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:59:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14766 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:57:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14755 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id MAA29480; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 12:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37CD857E.3C820BB6@serv.net> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 12:58:55 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing with buttons References: <4.1.19990901142611.009484e0@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > After getting the 2-dozen little buggers > on last night, I discovered that the cording slips off the buttons rather > easily. The buttons are 3/8" shank buttons in silver-toned metal. The > buttons would pull over, and the cord slipped off. [snip] Or is there > something else I can do to the buttons to make this more secure in closing? Well, in elizabethan period some men's doublets had lacing eyelets with buttons sewn next to them. So there would be the look of lots of beautiful expensive buttons but the doublet would be laced closed. You could add a row of eyelets and lace in a similar fashion. I can't think of any way to make buttons work except to use buttons that have no shank, flat, round, not-period buttons. But you could use wood, metal, or bone buttons maybe at least they aren't plastic. They would just have to be buttons that lie flat against the fabric and don't wobble. Why did you opt for buttons and not lacing? Merouda -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 15:05:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06113 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:05:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07358; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:18:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19349 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:15:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19335 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:15:09 -0600 (MDT) From: sustre@pixelations.com Received: from [209.244.224.216] (dialup-209.244.227.235.Boston2.Level3.net [209.244.227.235]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14546 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 13:15:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: amanda@pixelations.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:19:26 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing with buttons Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: sustre@pixelations.com I've heard of lacing through the shanks, after dropping them through they eyelets. I want to try this sometime when I have a lot of nice buttons. BTW, does anyone know how authentic/inauthentic it woulkd be if the buttons werent' all the same, but of similar type? Any period knowledge welcome... -Amanda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 15:23:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06124 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:23:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11302; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:36:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28558 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:33:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA28543 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:33:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 56193 invoked from network); 1 Sep 1999 20:33:15 -0000 Received: from 207-229-148-185.d.enteract.com (HELO lynnx.enteract.com) (207.229.148.185) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 1 Sep 1999 20:33:15 -0000 Message-ID: <37CDB1C4.2BF2@enteract.com> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:07:48 -0700 From: lynnx X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: ebay gypsy costume? References: <199909010629.AAA28361@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lynnx AArrrrgghhh, don't keep me in suspense like this!! ;-) Can you find the ebay pic and copy/past the url to it (whole thang) into a post? Thanks Heather (who might be able to help you out if I could see the one you're looking at) > I found a BEAUTIFUL gypsy costume on eBay today... so > now I must find the pattern for one... does anyone > know where I could find a pattern for the really > frouffy (is that a word?) gypsy dancer outfits? > Please? > > Sarah > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 15:38:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06131 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:38:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14234; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:52:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02317 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:49:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02305 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:49:14 -0600 (MDT) From: DRGurley@aol.com Received: from DRGurley@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6UEIa22962 (4540) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:48:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <773f66bd.24feeb03@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:48:03 EDT Subject: H-COST: EBay To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DRGurley@aol.com In a message dated 9/1/99 2:35:43 PM Central Daylight Time, mandrake@mypad.com writes: > Why don't more people swap? I think it would be fun. Michelle~ I agree completely! People who participate regularly in events requiring costume/garb tend to make several pieces for variety (myself included). I do have a friend that I swap pieces with to keep from wearing the same outfit every day of our 18 day run or at other faires that may call for a different time period. Are you suggesting a costume swap via list? How do you propose to do so? I think it's a *fantastic* idea if it can be accomplished. Not only do I change sizes, my children are growing. What do I do with outgrown costumes that are not worth the effort of altering them? >However, there is that 'standards' problem. I truly did not mean my comment to be offensive. I have been doing faire and making costumes for myself, my husband and my children for eight years. While I am by no means a professional seamstress, I do try to stay period and pay attention to things like color and fabric. Some of the things I have seen on ebay have been in bright, shiny gold, trimmed in fur, have zippers, or are poly-rayon blends that look like poly-rayon. Those types of things would not be acceptable at our faire. That's all I meant by "standards." I like to look like I know what I'm doing. I apologize if I've stepped on any toes. DaniG _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 15:43:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06138 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:43:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14978; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:57:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03538 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:54:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx2.io.com (IDENT:root@mx2.io.com [199.170.88.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03530; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:54:20 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by mx2.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA23035; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:54:19 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA28552; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:54:19 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:54:19 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: ebay gypsy costume? In-Reply-To: <37CDB1C4.2BF2@enteract.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Well there are several on there so please list the one you saw, here are the ones I saw http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=wethree3 Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, lynnx wrote: > Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:07:48 -0700 > From: lynnx > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume-digest@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: ebay gypsy costume? > > > -Poster: lynnx > > AArrrrgghhh, don't keep me in suspense like this!! ;-) Can you find the > ebay pic and copy/past the url to it (whole thang) into a post? > > Thanks > Heather > (who might be able to help you out if I could see the one you're looking > at) > > > I found a BEAUTIFUL gypsy costume on eBay today... so > > now I must find the pattern for one... does anyone > > know where I could find a pattern for the really > > frouffy (is that a word?) gypsy dancer outfits? > > Please? > > > > Sarah > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 15:46:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06145 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:46:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07655; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:19:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21215 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:16:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx2.io.com (IDENT:root@mx2.io.com [199.170.88.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21163 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:16:53 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by mx2.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA21167 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:16:51 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA26506 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:16:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:16:50 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing with buttons In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990901142611.009484e0@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Well, my suggestion is to make loops on the cording if you have enough of it and just loop them on the buttons, kinda like lassos. You can tie loops or just loop and twist as you go. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Wed, 1 Sep 1999, Doris J Nash wrote: > Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 14:46:41 -0500 > From: Doris J Nash > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Lacing with buttons > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 15:49:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06149 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:49:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15650; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:02:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA04811 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:59:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04803 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:59:54 -0600 (MDT) From: DRGurley@aol.com Received: from DRGurley@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6OWKa01404 (4540) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:58:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:58:36 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: ebay gypsy costume? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DRGurley@aol.com > AArrrrgghhh, don't keep me in suspense like this!! ;-) Can you find the > ebay pic and copy/past the url to it (whole thang) into a post? Heather, I don't know if this is the one Sarah was looking at, but I found a neat outfit at http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=156092882 I went to misc/clothing/women and searched on gypsy. There were 53 items listed. Is that the one, Sarah? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 16:31:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06176 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:31:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20934; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:44:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14437 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:41:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14421 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:41:35 -0600 (MDT) From: DzMzLzy@aol.com Received: from DzMzLzy@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6WSAa13743 (4258) for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:41:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:41:03 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing with buttons To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DzMzLzy@aol.com I've done something that looks like lacing with buttons but isn't really. The trick is to put an O-ring or a d-ring on so that the button is holding the ring and then you lace through the ring. Ta-da! I did this on a dress I laced in front with some flat woven braid and it allowed me to keep the braid flat. Important! The ring has to be smaller than the button AND it's best if the rings are solid welded closed. If there is an opening in the ring the lacing will either get caught, or slip out. Really irritating. Liz Gerds _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 16:50:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06217 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:50:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23646; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:04:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA18763 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:01:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu (mailhub.iastate.edu [129.186.1.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18752 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:01:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from H59013.iastate.edu (costumes.center.iastate.edu [129.186.127.4]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA14383 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:01:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990901163854.0091a900@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> X-Sender: djnash@djnash.mail.iastate.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 17:01:12 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Doris J Nash Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing with buttons In-Reply-To: <37CD857E.3C820BB6@serv.net> References: <4.1.19990901142611.009484e0@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Doris J Nash At 12:58 PM 9/1/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > >> After getting the 2-dozen little buggers >> on last night, I discovered that the cording slips off the buttons rather >> easily. The buttons are 3/8" shank buttons in silver-toned metal. The >> buttons would pull over, and the cord slipped off. [snip] Or is there >> something else I can do to the buttons to make this more secure in closing? > >Well, in elizabethan period some men's doublets had lacing eyelets with buttons >sewn next to them. So there would be the look of lots of beautiful expensive >buttons but the doublet would be laced closed. You could add a row of eyelets >and lace in a similar fashion. I can't think of any way to make buttons work >except to use buttons that have no shank, flat, round, not-period buttons. But >you could use wood, metal, or bone buttons maybe at least they aren't plastic. >They would just have to be buttons that lie flat against the fabric and don't >wobble. Why did you opt for buttons and not lacing? > I've had the buttons for a long time, and this seemed a good way to use them. Also I read (Can't site the source offhand, sorry!) that buttons were occasioonally used in place of eyelets in that period. >Merouda >-- >Cynthia Long >Merouda the True of Bornover >Barony of Madrone >Kingdom of An Tir Thanks for the suggestion! Doris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 17:03:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06238 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:03:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25653; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:16:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21656 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:13:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21646 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:13:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id PAA05025; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:14:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37CDA58F.6CDDFFC2@serv.net> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 15:15:44 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing with buttons References: <4.1.19990901142611.009484e0@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> <4.1.19990901163854.0091a900@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > I've had the buttons for a long time, and this seemed a good way to use > them. Also I read (Can't site the source offhand, sorry!) that buttons > were occasioonally used in place of eyelets in that period. But doubtful on the Shinrone dress. But you've got lots of great ideas. Just remember that just because something is period in one place at one time doesn't make it period in another place even in the same time. I thought the idea about sewing little metal rings next to the buttons to be particularly inspired. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 17:16:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06260 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:16:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27332; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:29:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24327 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:26:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA24314 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:26:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990901222657.17040.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.250.3.247] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 01 Sep 1999 15:26:57 PDT Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:26:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: ebay gypsy costume? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Here you go... it took some work to find 'cuz the auction is over, but I found it. ;-) I'm still drooling... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150803941 Sarah > AArrrrgghhh, don't keep me in suspense like this!! > ;-) Can you find the > ebay pic and copy/past the url to it (whole thang) > into a post? > > Thanks > Heather > (who might be able to help you out if I could see > the one you're looking > at) > > > I found a BEAUTIFUL gypsy costume on eBay today... > so > > now I must find the pattern for one... does anyone > > know where I could find a pattern for the really > > frouffy (is that a word?) gypsy dancer outfits? > > Please? > > > > Sarah > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 17:20:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06266 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:20:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27950; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:33:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25300 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:30:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA25292 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:30:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990901223049.25694.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.250.3.247] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 01 Sep 1999 15:30:49 PDT Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:30:49 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: ebay gypsy costume? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Nope... but is is neat... I'm looking for a bit more flamboyant... something to rival my auburn flaming hair... ;-) Sarah http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=156092882 > > I went to misc/clothing/women and searched on gypsy. > There were 53 items > listed. > > Is that the one, Sarah? > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 18:09:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06306 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:09:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04265; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05706 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:20:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05695 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:20:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.140] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11MJLX-00073m-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:59:15 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 14:41:45 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: NOW: Recycling clothing 'outgrown'/&c. WAS: EBay -- ATTN: Grania esp. In-Reply-To: <012701bef4b1$a1c6c660$cdadfea9@gunsafes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 12:38 PM 9/1/99, "Michelle" wrote: >I have been thinking about this. People tend to make more costumes as their >shape or size changes. Which means, they end up with a box or closet full >of stuff they wont or can't use. Why don't more people swap? I think it >would be fun. I have given away a few of my things but, I would have rather >traded. (Not that I didn't enjoy helping the new-to-fair people...) I have >noticed that on both the SCA garb and H-Cost list, when someone mentions >having anything that doesn't fit them anymore, there seems to be at least 2 >people that ask about it. > However, there is that 'standards' problem. It seems to me that in this case--this might also be the answer to part of the FAQ for newcomers to the SCA, inc. "Where do I find clothes, if I can't sew and don't know anyone who will?" Gold Key has loaner garb and is at most Kingdom level events, and some Principality/Local events have their own Gold Keys, too. I highly recommend donating attire you've outgrown or just don't want anymore to them. It's a good cause and they always need the help! -- Gra/inne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 18:11:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06312 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:11:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04738; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:25:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06055 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:21:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06044 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:21:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.140] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11MJLd-00073m-00; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:59:22 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 14:57:53 -0700 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: Kilts, Regimental & Piercing... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I wrote to a friend of mine, as I felt he could speak with some authority on the topics under discussion. Here is his response: >You may quote me, Carol. You may quote Aryeh J.S. Nusbacher, Senior Lecturer, >Royal Military Academy, Sandhurst, late 48th Highlanders of Canada, as saying >"there is not the merest scintilla of evidence to suggest that body piercing was >ever required or permitted as part of wearing kilts by any Highland, Lowland, >Scottish or Irish regiments of HM British or Commonwealth forces." > >Carol J. Bell Cannon [aka: Gra/inne ingen Domnaill Ilda/naig] wrote: > >> So--what is the military requirement about what one wears under the >> kilt--don't I recall you saying you were allowed some kind of underpinnings? > >You do not. By convention, male highlanders do not wear anything under their >kilts. > >I do know, however, know precisely when the practice of being naked under the >kilt began. It might have been during Queen Victoria's reign -- she ordered >military kilts to be made from a lighter-weight fabric because of discomfort to >the soldiers. I do know that the custom was in place as early as the First >World War. > >You may quote me on that as well. > >Best, > >Aryk > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 18:12:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06316 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:12:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04813; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:25:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06232 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:22:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06220 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:22:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.140] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11MJLb-00073m-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 15:59:20 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 14:50:30 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing with buttons In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 04:19 PM 9/1/99, Amanda wrote: I've heard of lacing through the shanks, after dropping them through the eyelets. I want to try this sometime when I have a lot of nice buttons. I would fear that the tension on the shanks would pull them apart and cause the buttons to be more easily lost. I would love to know what those who have tried that technique have found to be the case. -- Gra/inne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 18:24:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06337 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:24:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08007; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:38:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08678 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:35:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08672 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:35:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id QAA08337; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37CDB8B8.8E97AC3C@serv.net> Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 16:37:28 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing with buttons References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > I would fear that the tension on the shanks would pull them > apart and cause the buttons to be more easily lost. I would love to know > what those who have tried that technique have found to be the case. -- Front what I can tell, in England, from the 13th to the 18th centuries this was a common way of attaching buttons. Make little eyelets, stick the shanks through the eyelets, use a string to connect all the shanks, knot the string. Voila, removable buttons. This was a sensible practice in times when buttons were extremely expensive. And in times when royalty was using button with precious stones, a very parctical solution. Remember the diamond buttons in "Three Musketeers". Why keep buttons in a box? Because you only temporarily attached buttons to garments so that you could have diamond buttons on all your clothing but only one set of buttons. In the Thames digs, they found eyelet strips with absolutely *no* tension marks on them at all. They suspect this was because buttons were attached in this corded manner. Which tells me, that if this is so, then the buttons should be fine. If the buttons are having enough tension put on them to break them then the garment is *way* too tight and no matter how you attach them, they're going to bust. Or your buttons aren't sturdy enough to do their job. Any other ideas? Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 18:47:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06379 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:47:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11205; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:01:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12851 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:58:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12836 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 17:58:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p19.directcon.net [206.170.184.68]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA22744 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 16:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909012357.QAA22744@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing with buttons Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Also I read (Can't site the source offhand, sorry!) that buttons >> were occasioonally used in place of eyelets in that period. > >But doubtful on the Shinrone dress. Why? The description of Irish women's dress by Luke Gernon in the 1620's says: . On the forepart of those bodyes they have a sett of broad silver buttons of goldsmiths worke sett round about. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 19:24:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06424 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:24:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14789; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:38:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18609 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:35:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18599 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:35:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lindo (p53.a2.du.radix.net [207.192.129.181]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA19816 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 20:35:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909020035.UAA19816@mail1.radix.net> X-Sender: lindo@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.1 Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1999 20:35:17 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kevin + Mara Riley Subject: Re: H-COST: Saffron shirts In-Reply-To: <199908301318_MC2-82E8-3075@compuserve.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin + Mara Riley At 01:17 PM 08/30/1999 -0400, you wrote: >As far as I have been able to asetain, saffron was not avaliable to the >majority of the saffron shirt wearers in the earlier period. However a >bright yellow can be achieved very easily with several plants, onion skins >particularly springs to mind. However this dosen';t answer the question of >why they were called saffron shirts as opposed to onion skin shirts or >whatever :), unless the describers were familiar with the more expensive >saffron as a dyestuff and described it such ? Like we say orange for a >colour & a fruit , what can first the colour or the fruit ? Anyone know ? > >Mel Mel, the dye used was weld. -- Mara ------------------------------------------- "I tried to contain myself... but I escaped." http://www47.pair.com/lindo/Textiles_Page.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 19:37:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06445 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:37:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15867; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:48:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20235 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:45:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20226 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 18:45:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-86-70.s70.tnt6.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.86.70]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA24260 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 20:48:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01eb01bef4dc$1d95eda0$4656accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling clothing 'outgrown'/&c. Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 20:42:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" LOL, theatre shops and museums loan all the time. Theatre shops swap or loan with one another, and museums loan to other museums. Later... Penny ************************************ Deadline for entries to the Online Costume Ball is Sept. 21st. http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/attend.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 1 20:30:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06621 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 20:30:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21926; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:43:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA29046 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:40:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29036 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 19:40:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-86-70.s70.tnt6.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.86.70]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA23930 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <021801bef4e3$e12e1600$4656accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: Neat History Website Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 21:38:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Spy Letters of the American Revolution (website), http://www.si.umich.edu/spies/ Looks interesting!!! Later... Penny ************************************ Deadline for entries to the Online Costume Ball is Sept. 21st. http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/attend.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 01:21:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07032 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 01:21:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18705; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 00:35:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA08991 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 00:32:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08984 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 00:32:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA21086 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-58.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.58]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA07213 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008301bef50d$c2db8960$8b73fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing with buttons Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:38:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" . I thought the idea about >sewing little metal rings next to the buttons to be particularly inspired. > >Cynthia I, also, thought that idea was cool. Another idea, along the same line with the rings: If you have eyelets, you can use shank buttons. Put a jump/split (like key rings but small, I can't remember their proper name) through the shank after inserting the shank in the eyelet. This puts the ring on the inside of the garment and the button flat on the outside. You can then, lace through the rings. (This is a way to cover those dumb, unperiod grommets too) Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 01:36:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07041 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 01:36:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19234; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 00:50:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA10279 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 00:48:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10273 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 00:47:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25064 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:47:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-58.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.58]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA13944 for ; Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:47:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008c01bef50f$e9624a40$8b73fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: EBay Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 23:53:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" --> >Michelle~ > >Are you suggesting a costume swap via list? How do you propose to do so? I >think it's a *fantastic* idea if it can be accomplished. Not only do I change >sizes, my children are growing. What do I do with outgrown costumes that are >not worth the effort of altering them? I have all of the dresses my daughter has worn to faire since her birth. She is now eight. I just keep them... I have also changed sizes. I didn't mean 'exactly' via list. I would have to think about that. It would seem that pictures, descriptions and sizes/measurements, would have to be posted somewhere. Hmm...maybe a swaping website? I will work on this idea and see what I can come up with. I figured when I made the comment to the list that something like that would have to be more localized. Now, I am thinking it might be possible. Got any suggestions? > >>However, there is that 'standards' problem. What I meant by this, is... people couldn't be extremely picky. For something like this to work there would have to be some flexibility in costuming standards. No matter how bad something is, someone spent time and effort to do it. That should be respected. Trades should be of equal value and quality, periodness included. >I truly did not mean my comment to be offensive. >DaniG What comment? There was absolutely nothing directed at you or any one else on the list. I hope I clarified my thought better now. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 01:56:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07054 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 01:56:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20119; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 01:10:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA12363 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 01:07:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12358 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 01:07:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA29418 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 00:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-58.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.58]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA21939 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 00:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000a01bef512$a5c01d00$8b73fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: NOW: Recycling clothing 'outgrown'/&c. WAS: EBay -- ATTN: Grania esp. Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 00:13:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Carol, Most of the garb I make is for everyone else. I end up doing it for nothing. Once, I charged my nephews girlfriend $20 for each piece (she got an overdress, underskirt and chemise=$60. I was so thrilled, I bought myself one of those mini sergers with the money). If someone comes to me and needs help, I usually do it for them. Consequently, I never seem to get around to making anything for myself. I am under the impression that most of us do things like this. This is why swapping sounded nice. I wasn't aware of the Gold Key. Where is it? I am in CAID (Fresno). Can you email me privately with more info on who directs this aspect? Michelle > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > It seems to me that in this case--this might also be >the answer to part of the FAQ for newcomers to the SCA, inc. "Where do I >find clothes, if I can't sew and don't know anyone who will?" Gold Key >has loaner garb and is at most Kingdom level events, and some >Principality/Local events have their own Gold Keys, too. I highly >recommend donating attire you've outgrown or just don't want anymore to >them. It's a good cause and they always need the help! -- Gra/inne > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 06:24:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03767 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:24:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA00923; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 05:37:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23893 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 05:34:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23887 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 05:34:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.48 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 04:34:08 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Got beets, now what? Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 22:48:27 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bef538$5a6e3be0$300bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <013201bef4b3$d565e260$cdadfea9@gunsafes> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" You can cut them like potatoes and printing with them. Cut in half, and the carve a shape out of the flat part. Makes lovely designs on white tissue paper to use for gift wrap. Did it myself once, and I was quite pleased with the results. They create their own ink. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Michelle > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 3:55 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Got beets, now what? > > > > -Poster: "Michelle" > > I think warming with vinegar in your beet-water mixture > should set the color > well enough. Every year, when I decorate Easter eggs, I use > onion skins. > This is how I do it: Simmer skins in water (enough to cover) > until skins > are transparant, take out skins. Put new skins in, again simmer until > transparant. Doing it in stages allows for a darker dye > (smaller amount of > water, otherwise you dilute the color). Add one quarter to > one half a cup of > vinegar to the pot. You can simmer the eggs with the color > or cook them > and let them sit in the cool water. (You can put a leaf, > flower, papercut > against the shell and wrap it tightly with a piece of nylon > stocking to hold > it in position. This makes a pretty decoration. Just make > sure the plant > pieces are edible. Don't poison yourself.) > I took a class on cooking for children. During the class we had a > special unit on Easter egg dying naturally. You can color > them with carots, > beets, etc. too. There were a list of veggies and these were on it. No > matter which veggie you used, it pretty much works the same way as I > described above. If it colors eggs, why wouldn't it work for > your fabric? > > > > > >-Poster: Karalee Larsen Pugmire > > > >A friend has had an over abundance of beets grow in her > garden this year > >and she has a question. She's heard that beets were used for > dying. If that > >is true, where would we look for information on mordants, > and all the other > >stuff needed to dye and fix a peice of cloth? > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 06:24:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03771 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:24:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA00984; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 05:38:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23942 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 05:35:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23937 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 05:35:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.48 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 04:34:43 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Lacing with buttons Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:41:48 -0400 Message-ID: <000601bef538$7756bf20$300bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <37CDA58F.6CDDFFC2@serv.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" There is a tradition in Ireland of using jeweled clasps to hold the front of a dress closed. In the 18th century, you can ID an Irish woman compared to an English woman by this. It was an old, old custom at the time. How did the claps fasten? I don't know, but am eager to find out. There are so many in portraits, that there must be some in Irish museums. Sets of them were rather Renaissance in appearance in the 18th Century, and commonly passed down from relative to relative, surviving generations. Mairead Dunleavy reports lots of self-fabric covered buttons on wool garments in Irish history, and decoratively used where buttons are not needed, like fron wrist to shoulder on the back of a man's coat sleeve, etc. I can't remember what she says about the Shinrone gown on this point, and the book went back to ILL long time ago. I wouldn't rule out buttons on the Shinrone dress, myself. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Merouda the True of Bornover > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 6:16 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing with buttons > > > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > > > I've had the buttons for a long time, and this > seemed a good way to use > > them. Also I read (Can't site the source offhand, sorry!) > that buttons > > were occasioonally used in place of eyelets in that period. > > But doubtful on the Shinrone dress. But you've got lots of > great ideas. Just > remember that just because something is period in one place > at one time doesn't > make it period in another place even in the same time. I > thought the idea about > sewing little metal rings next to the buttons to be > particularly inspired. > > Cynthia > -- > Cynthia Long > Merouda the True of Bornover > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of An Tir > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 06:24:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03775 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:24:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA00931; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 05:38:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23932 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 05:35:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23925 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 05:35:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.48 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 04:34:37 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Lacing with buttons Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 07:32:34 -0400 Message-ID: <000501bef538$738ac300$300bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990901142611.009484e0@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" In Janet Arnold's *Patterns of Fashion 3,* dealing 1550-1660, there's a discussion of lacing and buttons. The lacings never go around the button, but through eyelets in the fabric or itty bitty rings sewn on to the garment. The buttons are sewn on in a decorative fashion only, typically next to each ring, for a very tight spacing, but not always. I don't have the book at home, but I think this is the general gist of it. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Doris J Nash > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 3:47 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Lacing with buttons > > > > -Poster: Doris J Nash > > Hello List! > > I hope someone has a solution to a problem I'm having. I'm making a > version of the Shinrone Gown to wear this weekend and I'm > using buttons to > lace up the front of the bodice. After getting the 2-dozen > little buggers > on last night, I discovered that the cording slips off the > buttons rather > easily. The buttons are 3/8" shank buttons in silver-toned > metal. The > buttons would pull over, and the cord slipped off. I then > tried to "crimp" > the shanks, squeezing gently with pliers. That helped a bit, > but I was > hoping someone on the list could give me a tip or 3 on the > subject. Would > one type or size of cording work better than another? Or is there > something else I can do to the buttons to make this more > secure in closing? > > Thanks for any suggestions! > Doris > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 08:53:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03922 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:53:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12822; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:06:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA11350 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:03:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spdmgaae.compuserve.com (ds-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.206.138]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11343 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:03:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id KAA06794 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:02:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:02:35 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Saffron Shirts To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199909021002_MC2-8350-BFEC@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id IAA11344 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson >Mel, the dye used was weld. Mara, weld is rare in Scotland ,esp the highlands. I canna speak for Eire. Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 08:59:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03934 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:59:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13476; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA12410 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:09:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu (mailhub.iastate.edu [129.186.1.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12396 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:09:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from H59013.iastate.edu (costumes.center.iastate.edu [129.186.127.4]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA09654 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:09:50 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990902090827.00947b30@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> X-Sender: djnash@djnash.mail.iastate.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 09:09:48 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Doris J Nash Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing with buttons In-Reply-To: <199909012357.QAA22744@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Doris J Nash At 04:57 PM 9/1/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > > Also I read (Can't site the source offhand, sorry!) that buttons >>> were occasioonally used in place of eyelets in that period. >> >>But doubtful on the Shinrone dress. > >Why? > >The description of Irish women's dress by Luke Gernon in the 1620's says: > >. On the forepart of those bodyes they have a sett of broad silver buttons >of goldsmiths worke sett round about. > >Margo Anderson >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > Yes! Thank you, Margo! That was the quotation I read, just couldn't remember where, only that it was in relation to the Shinrone Gown. Thanks again! Doris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 10:11:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04072 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:11:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23493; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:24:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA28462 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:21:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28450 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:21:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA11852.; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:26:56 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:20:32 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 16:20:04 +0100 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Diamonds in "Three Musketeers" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id JAA28455 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" Cynthia mentioned diamond buttons in "The Three Musketeers". I happened to re-read it in French recently and the term Dumas actually used is 'des ferrets en diamants'. According to my dictionary 'ferrets' are tags for putting on the ends of ribbons or laces. Presumably Buckingham was wearing a knot of ribbons stitched to his doublet with the diamonds on the ends when one was stolen. In English versions the jewels are usually described as buttons or a necklace, to get round the difficulty of literal translation. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 10:17:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04079 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:17:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24571; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:31:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00500 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:28:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00488 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:28:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA13618; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 08:29:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37CE9814.B09A5FA1@serv.net> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 08:30:29 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing with buttons References: <4.1.19990902090827.00947b30@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > > Also I read (Can't site the source offhand, sorry!) that buttons > >>> were occasioonally used in place of eyelets in that period. > >>But doubtful on the Shinrone dress. > >Why? > >The description of Irish women's dress by Luke Gernon in the 1620's says: > > Yes! Thank you, Margo! That was the quotation I read, just couldn't > remember where, only that it was in relation to the Shinrone Gown. Really? Buttons on the Shinrone Gown? I didn't say buttons weren't on Irish gowns, just not that I heard on the Shinrone gown. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 11:13:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04132 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:13:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03068; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:26:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14345 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:24:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14338 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:24:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p19.directcon.net [206.170.184.68]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA18720 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:23:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:23:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909021623.JAA18720@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing with buttons Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >Yes! Thank you, Margo! That was the quotation I read, just couldn't >remember where, only that it was in relation to the Shinrone Gown. You can find the rest of the quote at: http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/fenians/Shinrone/Shinrone.htm The description matches the Shinrone gown quite closely, except that the Shinrone gown lacks any kind of closure or any sign that buttons, lacing eyes, etc, were ever attached. Why is a mystery..although I like Maggirose's theory that the maker got so sick and frustrated with the darn thing that she wadded it up and threw it in the bog! Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 11:15:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04136 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:15:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03381; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:28:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14685 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:25:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu (mailhub.iastate.edu [129.186.1.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14663 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:25:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from H59013.iastate.edu (costumes.center.iastate.edu [129.186.127.4]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA08870 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:25:24 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990902111233.0092cbe0@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> X-Sender: djnash@djnash.mail.iastate.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:25:21 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Doris J Nash Subject: H-COST: Button lacing/Shinrone Gown/etc. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Doris J Nash Hello again! First, I want to thank everyone for your input on my problem. I started thinking, "Where would be the best place to look for little rings--hardware or craft dept.? Or, how about hooks? I could sew them to the underside of the CF edge and... or how about EYES!" So that's what I did, I used #6 black eyes, which are roughly triangular with the loops for sewing on, and placed one under each button, so now the buttons are purely decorative. As for the Shinrone Gown, no, they didn't use buttons, because there was no pulling or fabric displacement at the edge. Actually, I'm not sure they know how the Shinrone Gown was closed/fastened, but I was using the DeHeere source as a way to place the buttons in that time and place, as a possibility for a closure. I was chuckling to myself last night, as I was sewing the eyes on, "And I didn't think I had time to do worked eyelets! Just goes to show you!" I'm a theatre costumer myself, so my aesthetics are less strict with regard to authenticity than others'. I've used grommets before, but wanted something different on this dress. (But I am machine-stitching the hem--sorry!) :-) Again, thanks everyone! Doris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 11:42:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04176 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:42:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08088; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:56:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21210 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:53:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21196 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 10:53:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p19.directcon.net [206.170.184.68]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA22102 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 09:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909021652.JAA22102@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Button lacing/Shinrone Gown/etc. Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:25 AM 09/02/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Doris J Nash > >Hello again! > >First, I want to thank everyone for your input on my problem. I started >thinking, "Where would be the best place to look for little rings--hardware >or craft dept.? I just made the bodice to my Flemish gown using Roman shade drapery rings. I got them at JoAnes's, where they were hidden in the drapery hardware department. they're made of brass, about 1/2" in diameter, $2.50 for 40. I doubled them, sewing two on as one, for extra strength, although that may not be neccesary. They look great! Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 13:17:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04348 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:17:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23070; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:31:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA14630 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:28:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f38.hotmail.com [207.82.250.49]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA14487 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:27:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 13166 invoked by uid 0); 2 Sep 1999 18:27:15 -0000 Message-ID: <19990902182715.13165.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 12.21.110.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:27:06 PDT X-Originating-IP: [12.21.110.240] From: "Karie Mitchell" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing with buttons Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:27:06 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" >Another idea, along the same line with the rings: If you have >eyelets, >you can use shank buttons. Put a jump/split (like key >rings but small, I >can't remember their proper name) through the >shank after inserting the >shank in the eyelet. This puts the ring on >the inside of the garment and >the button flat on the outside. You >can then, lace through the rings. >(This is a way to cover those >dumb, unperiod grommets too) OK. I've been watching this thread really closely, but I still don't understand. Are we talking about making a front closure to a bodice? If so, what method are we using, laces or buttons or both? Exactly how are the buttons supposed to be fastened? Currently what I see is a bodice that has holes or rings on the front edge which are laced with a ribbon. _Somehow_ the buttons are also attached and possibly cover the holes the lace goes through. Please let me know if I got the clue bus and if not how to get on. Also, pictures are worth... well you know. I appreciate any clarification on this interesting topic. Allessandre "Those who give up a little liberty for safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Ben Franklin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 13:40:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04397 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 13:40:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26276; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:53:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20168 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:50:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20162 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 12:50:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id LAA21670; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 11:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37CEC77D.F1F8842F@serv.net> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 11:52:46 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing with buttons References: <19990902182715.13165.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > OK. I've been watching this thread really closely, but I still don't > understand. Are we talking about making a front closure to a bodice? If > so, what method are we using, laces or buttons or both? Exactly how are the > buttons supposed to be fastened? You must have missed the first post. The poster sewed shank buttons to the front of a bodice in order to lace around the button shank. It was not successful. The rest of the posts have been attempts to find solutions to the problem. > Currently what I see is a bodice that has holes or rings on the front edge > which are laced with a ribbon. _Somehow_ the buttons are also attached and > possibly cover the holes the lace goes through. Sounds like you've got it. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 16:52:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04667 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:52:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25696; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:05:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07153 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:02:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay20.smtp.psi.net (relay20.smtp.psi.net [38.8.20.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07131 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 16:02:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.119.75.41] (helo=kdp.tiac.net) by relay20.smtp.psi.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11Mevn-0006fH-00; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:02:07 -0400 From: "John Page" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: NOW: Recycling clothing 'outgrown'/&c. WAS: EBay -- ATTN: Grania esp. Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 06:47:19 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "John Page" In the Barony (Carolingia) where I live we also have semi-regular meetings where people will teach everything one needs to know about making garb, including how to use a sewing machine and look for fabric. Helping out, even just attending has taught me a lot. Kristin Page > Gold Key. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 19:59:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04913 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:59:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16324; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:12:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13386 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:08:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f174.hotmail.com [207.82.251.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA13371 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:08:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 82607 invoked by uid 0); 3 Sep 1999 01:07:55 -0000 Message-ID: <19990903010755.82606.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.51 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 02 Sep 1999 18:07:54 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.51] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: I'm b-a-a-a-ck! Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 18:07:54 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Flame shields up! No, seriously, guys, I have been away from a computer for almost five months now. Missed you all. Jason & I are busily working on wonderful fall clothes and settling down to domestic life. The kids are wonderful...Hope you all haven't quit talking about corsets... ;-D Love, Susannah Susannah Eanes, Mantua Maker "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 20:09:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04927 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:09:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17424; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA14926 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:19:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14917 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:19:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jkidder-home ([63.21.224.249]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990903011834.VWK21390@jkidder-home> for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 01:18:34 +0000 From: "Sharon Kidder" To: Subject: H-COST: Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:11:40 -0700 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1162 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990903011834.VWK21390@jkidder-home> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Sharon Kidder" Has anybody else noticed that Amazon UK is accepting orders for "Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince" by Stella Mary Newton? The price is 15.99 pounds. Are they really going to republish it? Anybody know anything further? Thanks, Oriana of Myrtlewood (who normally just lurks) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 20:34:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04964 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:34:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20213; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:48:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA18625 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:45:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18610 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:45:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.8 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:44:19 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Button lacing/Shinrone Gown/etc. Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:52:33 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bef5af$2ab8f940$080bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990902111233.0092cbe0@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion 3 shows tiny rings, say 1/4 inch or less. They are a jewelry item in craft stores, less than a dollar for scads, but test strength before purchasing so they don't deform from the lacings. They also have to be continuous circles, not with a gap, which will only open further when stressed. I'm quite sure they were treated with something to get black and white. The desired look was that they not show. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Doris J Nash > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 12:25 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Button lacing/Shinrone Gown/etc. > > > > -Poster: Doris J Nash > > Hello again! > > First, I want to thank everyone for your input on my problem. > I started > thinking, "Where would be the best place to look for little > rings--hardware > or craft dept.? Or, how about hooks? I could sew them to > the underside of > the CF edge and... or how about > EYES!" So > that's what I did, I used #6 black eyes, which are roughly > triangular with > the loops for sewing on, and placed one under each button, so now the > buttons are purely decorative. > > As for the Shinrone Gown, no, they didn't use buttons, > because there was no > pulling or fabric displacement at the edge. Actually, I'm > not sure they > know how the Shinrone Gown was closed/fastened, but I was > using the DeHeere > source as a way to place the buttons in that time and place, as a > possibility for a closure. I was chuckling to myself last > night, as I was > sewing the eyes on, "And I didn't think I had time to do > worked eyelets! > Just goes to show you!" I'm a theatre costumer myself, so my > aesthetics > are less strict with regard to authenticity than others'. I've used > grommets before, but wanted something different on this > dress. (But I am > machine-stitching the hem--sorry!) :-) > > Again, thanks everyone! > Doris > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 20:39:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04985 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:39:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20755; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:53:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA19452 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:50:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19443 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:50:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15024 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:49:55 -0400 Message-ID: <37CF2946.2C735411@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 21:51:25 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince References: <19990903011834.VWK21390@jkidder-home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Yes, it's true. Green Duck Designs also says it will be out this month. > Has anybody else noticed that Amazon UK is accepting orders for "Fashion in > the Age of the Black Prince" by Stella Mary Newton? The price is 15.99 > pounds. Are they really going to republish it? Anybody know anything > further? -- You need height to prove that you have Leadership; you need money to communicate your views to the voters by means of TV commercials that have the subtlety of a Teletubbies episode, but less intellectual content. -- Dave Barry _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 21:03:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05056 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:03:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23430; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:17:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA22931 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:14:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22922 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:14:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.200 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:13:28 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Saffron Shirts Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:21:42 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bef5b3$3ca5c300$080bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199909021002_MC2-8350-BFEC@compuserve.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I've read that the saffron color could have been obtained from lichens and other plants in Ireland and Scotland. Can't be specific on a source book, however, or more specific about the actual variety of plant. Do yellow lichens produce yellow leines? Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Melanie Wilson > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 1999 10:03 AM > To: INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Saffron Shirts > > > > -Poster: Melanie Wilson > > >Mel, the dye used was weld. > > Mara, weld is rare in Scotland ,esp the highlands. I canna > speak for Eire. > > Mel > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 21:18:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05089 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:18:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24800; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:31:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA25125 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:29:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25115 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:29:01 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: from grendal2 (ip225.van23.pacifier.com [216.65.138.225]) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) with SMTP id TAA16105 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:28:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909030228.TAA16105@eclipse.pacifier.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 19:32:11 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: RE: H-COST: Saffron Shirts Priority: normal In-reply-to: <000401bef5b3$3ca5c300$080bfdd0@sharp-9070-> References: <199909021002_MC2-8350-BFEC@compuserve.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > I've read that the saffron color could have been obtained > from lichens and other plants in Ireland and Scotland. > Can't be specific on a source book, however, or more > specific about the actual variety of plant. Do yellow > lichens produce yellow leines? While weld was not grown in Scotland, it was available as a commercial dyestuff, as was indigo (which some people thought was a mineral because it came in lump form. It's a semitropical plant so there's no way it would have grown in Scotland.) There are a number of dyestuffs available in Scotland for dyeing. Alder, ash, bearberry, birch, bog myrtle, broom, corn marigold, cow parsley, crab apple, Crottle Evernia Prunastri (a lichen), dock, elder, heather, knapweed, marsh marigold, marsh woundwort, meadow sweet, nettles, Polyganum hydropiper, Polyganum persicaria, poplar, ragwort, whin, weld and yarrow are all listed as Scottish traditional dyes for yellow according to _Traditional Scottish Dyes_ by Jean Fraser (ISBN 0 86241 108 4). Frankly, I suspect that Broom is the dyestuff used for the "saffron shirts." I've used it to make a fast, vibrant yellow (just not quite as mellow as the more expensive saffron.) It's relatively common in the British Isles (and is quite a weed if you aren't careful!) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 21:33:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05123 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:33:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26301; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:47:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA27363 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:44:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27357 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:44:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-79-59.s59.tnt5.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.79.59]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA27866 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00d301bef5b5$f1f985a0$3b4faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <19990903011834.VWK21390@jkidder-home> Subject: Re: H-COST: Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:42:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Yes, it is true. One of their reprep contacted me yesterday. It will be available in the States late September for $35.00. I think it is being republished in the UK. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com > Has anybody else noticed that Amazon UK is accepting orders for "Fashion in > the Age of the Black Prince" by Stella Mary Newton? The price is 15.99 > pounds. Are they really going to republish it? Anybody know anything > further? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 22:30:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05218 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:30:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03588; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:44:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA05499 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:40:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05489 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:40:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-79-59.s59.tnt5.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.79.59]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA17780; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 23:44:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00f501bef5bd$d0597420$3b4faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Cc: "Kelly Rinne" , "Kaye Boyer" Subject: H-COST: Empires of Industry: Textiles: Birth of an American Industry. Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 23:38:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Earlier today the History Channel had the following program on: Empires of Industry: Textiles: Birth of an American Industry. Cloth-making, America's first developed industry, helped weave freedom from England; now, it's on the economic endangered list with threats from international competition. Chronicled: U.S. textiles' birth; creation of Lowell, Massachusetts, our first industrial city; labor unrest; and possible future. I watched the show. It was really good history of the textile industry in the U.S. It started out with the first successful textile mill owned by Samuel Slater. The museum of the mill located in Rhode Island looked very impressive. Then they discussed the Boston Associates who backed the Lowell Mills. They discussed and showed models of how the factories were laid out. Labor issues were discussed including use of children, young women, and immigrants as workers. Each job, such as spinners and weavers, were described and footage was shown. The development and impact of rayon were detailed. Then they discussed the impact of the Burlington Mills in North and South Carolina on the 20th Century. My grandmother moved into the city to become a spinner during 1900 in one of these mills. I often wondered about the conditions under which she worked. I have a written family history letter from her sister-in-law, who also worked at the same mill, describing the long hours. This is part of their "History in the Classroom" series. Online they have an overview of the program, with vocabulary words and discussion questions for the educators to use. I did see at the end of the show that a video of the show is available for sale via the History Channel. So if you are interested in purchasing it, go to the History Channel's website, http://www.historychannel.com, go to their store, and type in the keyword "textile". The cost is $19.95. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 22:40:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05227 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:40:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05092; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:54:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA07011 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:51:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07001 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 21:51:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990903035115.NIEO1639.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 20:51:15 -0700 Message-ID: <37CF45C1.AAD3E1D4@home.com> Date: Thu, 02 Sep 1999 22:51:29 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Button lacing/Shinrone Gown/etc. References: <000101bef5af$2ab8f940$080bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Try using a split ring rather than a jump ring...less likely to lose lacing that way. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 2 23:26:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05269 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 23:26:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09223; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:40:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14026 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:37:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14017 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 22:37:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA20887 for ; Thu, 2 Sep 1999 23:41:57 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 23:41:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: costuming giggles Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Just got back from the movie "The 13th Warrior," based on the book "Eaters of the Dead," a re-telling (with many liberties) of Beowolf. The armor was particularly amusing in it's inappropriateness. Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 3 02:17:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA16756 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 02:17:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA18482; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 01:24:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA01417 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 01:21:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spdmgaae.compuserve.com (ds-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.206.138]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA01404 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 01:21:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id DAA11643 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 03:20:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 03:20:15 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Saffron To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199909030320_MC2-8379-B4AA@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id BAA01405 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson >I've read that the saffron color could have been obtained from lichens and other plants in Ireland and Scotland. Can't be specific on a source book, however, or more specific about the actual variety of plant. Do yellow lichens produce yellow leines? Lichens are not my area as they are endangered, but I know opf a few coomon scottish plants producing yellows, which are used & can be documented for use, unfortunatly much of the dye lore is by word of mouth so how far back it goes it debatable, however we do know what grew to a certain extent in a certain area, from pollen analysis etc Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 3 07:11:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02220 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 07:11:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA02108; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 06:26:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA17702 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 06:23:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA17692 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 06:23:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990903122310.19069.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 03 Sep 1999 05:23:10 PDT Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 05:23:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Empires of Industry: Textiles: Birth of an American Industry. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney > international competition. Chronicled: U.S. > textiles' birth; creation of > Lowell, Massachusetts, our first industrial city; > labor unrest; and possible Woo-hoo! I love it when they talk about my city! ;-) Lowell has some facinating history and loves to share it... if any of you are ever in the area, the textile mill is well worth the trip... Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 3 08:11:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02288 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:11:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05848; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 07:25:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA24845 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 07:22:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from exchange.aiken.sc.edu (aiken.sc.edu [129.252.188.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24834 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 07:22:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [129.252.178.234] (129.252.178.234 [129.252.178.234]) by exchange.aiken.sc.edu with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2448.0) id SBYJWM72; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:12:55 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990903122310.19069.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:18:05 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Josh Webb Subject: Re: H-COST: Empires of Industry: Textiles: Birth of an American Industry. Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Josh Webb I've been to the textile museum in Lowell, and you're right it is fantastic. I'm currently living in South Carolina in an old textile town (Formerly home of the Graniteville Company now Avondale). In fact the home I purchased a couple of years ago is an old company house from the 20's. My neighbor worked for the company from before WWII until the early 90's and he bought his home from them for about $2900. Not bad, everything I hear from him is that it was a pretty good place to work, but the south has such a history of poverty that I get the impression that he was just thankful to have a job. J. Webb _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 3 09:26:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02496 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:26:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12656; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:39:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA08208 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:36:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA08197; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:36:53 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:36:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909031436.IAA08197@net.indra.com> From: "Wilson, Brad" To: "'H-COST'" Subject: H-COST: Venetians/Trunkhose Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Wilson, Brad" Does anyone know of something online or have any suggestions on how to make a set of venetians or trunkhose ? I need to make a set for an event next weekend and would like any help/suggestions that you have. I am approximatley 5'11" and 200 lbs. Thanks, Brad Wilson Carrollton, GA _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 3 09:43:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02558 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:43:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14951; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:57:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA12659 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:55:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Mackie.com (mackie1.mackie.com [209.168.18.190]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA12649 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:55:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Mackie-Message_Server by Mackie.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 03 Sep 1999 07:59:17 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 07:58:57 -0700 From: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id IAA12651 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Colleen McDonald Hinrichs" Boydell and Brewer is re-releasing this title and it can be ordered directly from them - $35 US plus postage. I just found out yesterday that it will probably be October or November before it is released. The original publication date was supposed to be September. Normally, Amazon's books are discounted from the publisher's price, but this time - no discount. Colleen McDonald Hinrichs aka Cainder nic Sheanlaoich _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 3 09:53:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02605 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:53:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16225; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:06:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA14931 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:05:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14918 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:05:43 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6IUAu.BSb_ (3960) for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:05:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <715dab2f.25013da5@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:05:09 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Empires of Industry: Textiles: Birth of an AmericanIndustry. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Hi, All, The American History Textile Museum moved its fabulous textile collection -- both finished goods and equipment to an old mill in Lowell, Massachusetts. They began adding costumes to show the complete cycle of cloth. Their second floor includes a wonderful exhibit of historic fashions and a loom room with the 19th century looms still producing fabric that they sell in their museum shop. Worth a trip if you are on the East Coast. Check February 1999 in Historic Fashions of Women & Children calendar for pictures and more information. Sally Costume Calendar Series http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 3 10:58:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02788 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:58:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24192; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:10:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01693 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:07:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01683 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:07:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.181] (sdts11-181.znet.net [207.167.66.181]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id JAA03317 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909031436.IAA08197@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 08:44:54 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Venetians/Trunkhose Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: "Wilson, Brad" > > > >Does anyone know of something online or have any suggestions on how to make >a set of venetians or trunkhose ? I need to make a set for an event next >weekend and would like any help/suggestions that you have. I am >approximatley 5'11" and 200 lbs. > >Thanks, > >Brad Wilson >Carrollton, GA Expand the trunkhose and venetian patterns up for your size in Patterns of Fashion, 1550-1650 by Janet Arnold. The venetians are not too complex. If you don't have it, ask around, most 16th c re-enactors or costumers have it... I find they come out really nice pinked in those nice X patterns all over if done on a light felted wool flannel worn over a light denim weight lining. Good Luck, Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 3 11:33:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02825 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:33:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29292; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:47:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10904 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:44:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10888 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 10:44:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p9.directcon.net [206.170.184.58]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01016 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 09:42:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909031642.JAA01016@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Michelle & Elizabethan corsets Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Sorry for the waste of bandwidth, folks, but this lady is on a heavy deadline ands sounds desperate. Michelle: check your mailbox! I keep sending you the corset/bodice help, and it's bouncing back with a "mailbox disk full" message. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 3 12:16:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02853 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 12:16:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04749; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:29:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20940 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:26:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spamgaad.compuserve.com (as-img-4.compuserve.com [149.174.217.147]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20923 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 11:26:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.3) id NAA16579; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:26:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:26:12 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Another auction site To: LIST historic costume Cc: LIST SCA arts Message-ID: <199909031326_MC2-837D-86B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id LAA20924 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson Might be of interest to auction addicts like me ! 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Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 3 14:45:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03099 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 14:45:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01915; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:58:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13086 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:55:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13067 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 13:55:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA20091 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA20206 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:55:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:55:55 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Simplicity Pattern Sale Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Just thought I'd let y'all know...I went to Jo-Ann's today, and they're having a sale on all of their simplicity patterns. Including the "Shakespeare in Love" one. I got two at $1.99 each! Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 3 16:19:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03259 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:19:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13439; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:33:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA03276 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:28:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03251 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:28:09 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6FIOa01400 (4446) for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:27:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <45a6f21c.2501973f@aol.com> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:27:27 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Empires of Industry: Textiles: Birth of anAmericanIndustry. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com I visited the new home of the American Textile History Museum. Interestingly, the building was not a textile mill but rather, I think, one that made machinery. They have a huge amount of stuff that isn't on display. I was very lucky the day I went to encounter a volunteer who took me behind the scenes and showed me some of it. I concur that it is worth a visit. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 3 17:10:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03306 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:10:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20627; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:24:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA13943 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:21:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13926 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:21:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990903222121.LYTP22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 15:21:21 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 15:24:40 -0700 Subject: H-COST: new email address From: "R.L. Shep" To: "h-costume" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990903222121.LYTP22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" For those of you who email me off the list I have a new email address effective immediately. rlshep@home.com This is a *cable ready* system and is instaneous. My old server was always kicking me off line when I was in the middle of doing research. This will not be a problem now. BUT it was absolute hell getting it set up. And I mean many days of hell and it not working. Looking back on it I wonder that I ever managed to go ahead with it. But here I am. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 3 18:19:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com ([204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03416 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 18:19:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27917; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:32:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26057 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:29:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26039 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 17:29:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from slave (BayArea56k424.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.24]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id QAA17742 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 16:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37D0590D.787D@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 16:26:05 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Eurocentric complaint References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > > -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > Just got back from the movie "The 13th Warrior," based on the book "Eaters > of the Dead," a re-telling (with many liberties) of Beowolf. The armor > was particularly amusing in it's inappropriateness. > > Emma > Excuuuuse meeee :-) While it may have *bits* of Beowolf (pun intended) it is based on a *true* story. This came up on the very serious, academic Medieval middle east list. In the 10th century, the Caliph at Baghdad sent Ibn Fadlan as an envoy to the Bulgars. In the tradition of many other Islamic travellers, he wrote it all down. Unfortunately, it has been translated into every language except English. Somehow Crichton got ahold of the basic story and embellished it (extensively) But he did such a good job, that at least one scholar thought he had somehow found the missing part of Ibn Fadlan's MS!! I read Eaters of the Dead years ago and had forgotten it was a Crichton story. So I'm looking forward to seeing the movie this weekend. Is it any good at all?? Susan Fatemi -- susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 3 21:01:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03579 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 21:00:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12871; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:14:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA16850 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:11:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16828 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:11:22 -0600 (MDT) From: trekona@erols.com Received: from erols.com (207-172-135-98.s257.tnt4.col.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.135.98]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id WAA13023 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:11:16 -0400 (EDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Eurocentric complaint Date: Sat, 04 Sep 99 02:11:20 GMT Message-ID: References: <37D0590D.787D@netwiz.net> X-Mailer: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00] Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: trekona@erols.com > -Poster: Susan Fatemi > Excuuuuse meeee :-) While it may have *bits* of Beowolf (pun intended) > it is based on a *true* story. uh, actually it's not based on a *true* story, it's based on a true *story*, if you see the difference. Chrichton's _Eater's of the Dead_ is indeed a story (that part is true), but from what I've heard, the movie is only "based" on it and doesn't follow it very well. However, it's not exactly a *true* story. The book was written very well in its attempt to combine just enough bits of the *true* Ibn Fadlan account of the Rus with the story of Beowulf to make it seem authentic. Yes, it is supposed to be Beowulf - Crichton had made a bet whether anyone could write a book based on Beowulf and get it on the best sellers list, so he did. The current movie version, "13th Warrior" has undergone many test showings and many re-writes, and a few different names (like "The Last Viking"). > This came up on the very serious, academic Medieval middle east list. In the > 10th century, the Caliph at Baghdad sent Ibn Fadlan as an envoy to the > Bulgars. The Rus, they were Swedish. Now he may also have gone to the Bulgars, I don't know all his travels, but in this case he is known for his write-up on the Rus. > In the tradition of many other Islamic travellers, he wrote it all down. > Unfortunately, it has been translated into every language except English. unfortunately true. > Somehow Crichton got ahold of the basic story and embellished > it (extensively) But he did such a good job, that at least one > scholar thought he had somehow found the missing part of Ibn Fadlan's > MS!! well, that's in part because Crichton made that claim. > I read Eaters of the Dead years ago and had forgotten it was a > Crichton story. So I'm looking forward to seeing the movie this > weekend. Is it any good at all?? A man from oldnorsenet wrote a review on it that was pretty scathing. He mentioned (and here's the costume part of the message!) something about while there weren't any horns on the helmets of the good guys (I guess there are on the bad guys), he was sure he saw a Roman Gladitorial helmet on one of the vikings, as well as a 16th cent Spanish helmet on another! The weapons were wrong, the armor was wrong, and they spent most of the movie being drunk, inarticulate, and vomiting. If you like *really* schlocky viking movies, and Animal House type of humour, you might like the movie. Personally, I'd rather sew on a costume and put the money towards fabric. -Judy Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 3 22:05:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03727 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:05:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18445; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 21:19:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24139 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 21:16:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24128 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 21:16:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from slave (BayArea56k431.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.31]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id UAA17728 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 20:16:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37D08E4F.47B6@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 03 Sep 1999 20:13:19 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Eurocentric complaint References: <37D0590D.787D@netwiz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi trekona@erols.com wrote: > ... > enough bits of the *true* Ibn Fadlan account of the Rus with the story of > Beowulf to make it seem authentic. Yes, it is supposed to be Beowulf - Rats. Sounds like they practically ignore the Ibn Fadlan connection. Which was the main reason I wanted to see it. There are so many good stories waiting to be made, why do they waste gazillions of $$$ on junk? (rhetorical question) > inarticulate, and vomiting. If you like *really* schlocky viking movies, and > Animal House type of humour, you might like the movie. Personally, I'd rather > sew on a costume and put the money towards fabric. Not normally, no. But this was going to be a "treat". Maybe we'll go see 6th Sense, instead. sigh. Susan -- susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 3 23:57:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03828 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:57:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29037; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:11:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA06910 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:09:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vcn.bc.ca (vcn.bc.ca [207.102.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06905 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 23:09:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (izzie@localhost) by vcn.bc.ca (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id WAA02450 for ; Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:09:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 1999 22:09:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Peggy A. Stonnell" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Eurocentric complaint In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Peggy A. Stonnell" On Sat, 4 Sep 1999 trekona@erols.com wrote: > > -Poster: trekona@erols.com > > > -Poster: Susan Fatemi > > > Excuuuuse meeee :-) While it may have *bits* of Beowolf (pun intended) > > it is based on a *true* story. > uh, actually it's not based on a *true* story, it's based on a true > *story*, if you see the difference. Chrichton's _Eater's of the Dead_ is indeed > a story (that part is true), but from what I've heard, the movie is only > "based" on it and doesn't follow it very well. However, it's not exactly a > *true* story. The book was written very well in its attempt to combine just > enough bits of the *true* Ibn Fadlan account of the Rus with the story of > Beowulf to make it seem authentic. Yes, it is supposed to be Beowulf - Crichton > had made a bet whether anyone could write a book based on Beowulf and get it on > the best sellers list, so he did. The current movie version, "13th Warrior" has > undergone many test showings and many re-writes, and a few different names > (like "The Last Viking"). > > > This came up on the very serious, academic Medieval middle east list. In the > > 10th century, the Caliph at Baghdad sent Ibn Fadlan as an envoy to the > > Bulgars. > The Rus, they were Swedish. Now he may also have gone to the Bulgars, I > don't know all his travels, but in this case he is known for his write-up on > the Rus. He was sent to the Bulgars, didn't get there, ran into the Rus on the way. > > > In the tradition of many other Islamic travellers, he wrote it all down. > > Unfortunately, it has been translated into every language except English. > unfortunately true. > > > Somehow Crichton got ahold of the basic story and embellished > > it (extensively) But he did such a good job, that at least one > > scholar thought he had somehow found the missing part of Ibn Fadlan's > > MS!! > well, that's in part because Crichton made that claim. The latest release of the book (renamed to match the movie for the tie in sales) has at the very back an article by Crichton explaining why he wrote the book and where he got things and such. In that article he says the first three chapters are from the genuine Ibn Fadlan's account, the remainder is from Crichton's imagination. > > > I read Eaters of the Dead years ago and had forgotten it was a > > Crichton story. So I'm looking forward to seeing the movie this > > weekend. Is it any good at all?? > A man from oldnorsenet wrote a review on it that was pretty scathing. He > mentioned (and here's the costume part of the message!) something about while > there weren't any horns on the helmets of the good guys (I guess there are on > the bad guys), he was sure he saw a Roman Gladitorial helmet on one of the > vikings, as well as a 16th cent Spanish helmet on another! The weapons were > wrong, the armor was wrong, and they spent most of the movie being drunk, > inarticulate, and vomiting. If you like *really* schlocky viking movies, and Gee, he must have been at a different movie than I was. The only vomiting was by "Ibn Fadlan" after viewing a particularly gory sight. And they spent most of the movie travelling or fighting. There was a lot of drinking implied at the funeral feast but that would be expected. > Animal House type of humour, you might like the movie. Personally, I'd rather > sew on a costume and put the money towards fabric. > > -Judy Mitchell Peggy Stonnell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 4 02:41:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA32741 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 02:41:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA08828; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 01:55:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA20759 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 01:54:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mb06.swip.net (mb06.swip.net [193.12.122.210]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20752 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 01:54:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from nina (d212-151-173-85.swipnet.se [212.151.173.85]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id JAA11589 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:54:13 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990904095523.009052e0@olga.swip.net> X-Sender: mo25111@olga.swip.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 09:55:23 +0200 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Nina Marcks v W Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Pattern Sale In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id BAA20755 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Nina Marcks v W Hi, What number are the Shakespear in Love one? I have tried I find the new ones at Simplicitys homepage but failed. Simplicity patterns are not for sale here in Sweden so I need to know the exact number and than ask someone to buy them for me. Which one should I get if I want an Elisabethan dress as good as possible. Nina in Sweden At 15:55 1999-09-03 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: aleed > > >Just thought I'd let y'all know...I went to Jo-Ann's today, and they're >having a sale on all of their simplicity patterns. Including the >"Shakespeare in Love" one. I got two at $1.99 each! > >Drea > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _____________________________________________________ Nina Marcks v W Höganäsgatan 1 B S-753 30 Uppsala tel +46-(0)18 - 10 12 86 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 4 06:37:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00489 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 06:37:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA18036; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 05:51:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA03084 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 05:50:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA03078 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 05:50:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909041150.FAA03078@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 29164 invoked from network); 4 Sep 1999 05:50:01 -0600 Received: from ts26-31.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.145) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 4 Sep 1999 05:50:01 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Eurocentric complaint Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 05:56:19 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" Definitely, see Sixth Sense!!!!! I know that this isn't the 'Movie Review' list, but I can't help myself! Sixth Sense is a very (to me, but I am easy) spooky movie that will have you thinking about it days after. Kathlene ---------- > From: Susan Fatemi > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Eurocentric complaint > Date: Friday, September 03, 1999 9:13 PM > > > -Poster: Susan Fatemi > > trekona@erols.com wrote: > > > ... > > enough bits of the *true* Ibn Fadlan account of the Rus with the story of > > Beowulf to make it seem authentic. Yes, it is supposed to be Beowulf - > > Rats. Sounds like they practically ignore the Ibn Fadlan > connection. Which was the main reason I wanted to see it. > There are so many good stories waiting to be made, why > do they waste gazillions of $$$ on junk? (rhetorical question) > > > inarticulate, and vomiting. If you like *really* schlocky viking movies, and > > Animal House type of humour, you might like the movie. Personally, I'd rather > > sew on a costume and put the money towards fabric. > > Not normally, no. But this was going to be a "treat". > Maybe we'll go see 6th Sense, instead. > > sigh. > > Susan > > -- > susanf@netwiz.net > http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 4 08:18:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00570 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:18:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22573; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 07:32:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA11372 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 07:31:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11365 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 07:30:59 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6DQYa06614 (4251) for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:30:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:30:17 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Eurocentric complaint To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/04/1999 1:11:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, izzie@vcn.bc.ca writes: << The latest release of the book (renamed to match the movie for the tie in sales) has at the very back an article by Crichton explaining why he wrote the book and where he got things and such. In that article he says the first three chapters are from the genuine Ibn Fadlan's account, the remainder is from Crichton's imagination. >> Also, when I read the book [years ago] in the into, Crichton relates how the book started on a bet he couldn't make Beowulf interesting to a modern audience. So it based on both. Too bad someone didn't bet the film makers they could make it interesting. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 4 08:37:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00579 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:37:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23538; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 07:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA13094 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 07:50:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13086 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 07:50:29 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6AEBa07437 (4409) for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:49:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <333558a1.25027d7d@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:49:49 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Pattern Sale To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 9/4/99 7:55:36 AM !!!First Boot!!!, nina.marcks@swipnet.se writes: << Hi, What number are the Shakespear in Love one? I have tried I find the new ones at Simplicitys homepage but failed. Simplicity patterns are not for sale here in Sweden so I need to know the exact number and than ask someone to buy them for me. Which one should I get if I want an Elisabethan dress as good as possible. Nina in Sweden >> The patern number for the Simplicity Shakespeare in Love Elizabethan dress is 8881. My Joanns fabric store didn't even have it put out yet...I went digging through boxes in the back to find it for 1.99 I would do that. Charles _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 4 08:39:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00583 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:39:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23687; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 07:54:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA13387 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 07:52:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13380 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 07:52:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [140.254.114.161] (ts33-10.homenet.ohio-state.edu [140.254.114.161]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27344 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909041352.JAA27344@mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 09:52:20 -0400 Subject: H-COST: Blade DVD From: "Leta Hendricks" To: "h-costume@indra.com" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3019283540_380397_MIME_Part" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Leta Hendricks" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3019283540_380397_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Howdy! The new Wesley Snipes "Blade" movie/computer DVD is WONDERFUL! This Warner - New Line Platinum DVD features: the film, audio commentary, isolated score, alternate film endings, vampire folklore, film production highlights, and FOUR! featurettes. In addition the "Blade" DVD computer disk features: original screenplay, access to every screen shot within screenplay, highlights from ComicCon '98, weblinks, and MORE (e.g., costume design)!! This marvel (pun intended) of technology is a great information resource for costume artists, film historians, scholars of popular culture, and chip heads. Also, I have my G3 - DVD computer connected to my home entertainment system -- The digital surround-sound (G3 + stereo sub-woofer) and pix image (G3 + RCA connection to TV) blows me away. A must experience "The software box said Windows '98 or better, ... so I bought a MAC." from garage.com. *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^ Leta Hendricks Assistant Professor Head, EHS Systems EHS Library The Ohio State University 110 Sullivant Hall 1813 Neil Avenue Columbus, Ohio 43210 614.292.2075 hendricks.3@osu.edu http://www.hec.ohio-state.edu/hendrick/index.htm http://www.lib.ohio-state.edu/OSU_profile/ehsweb/ --MS_Mac_OE_3019283540_380397_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Blade DVD Howdy!


The new Wesley Snipes "Blade" movie/= computer DVD is WONDERFUL!
 
This Warner - New Line Platinum DVD features: the film, audio commentary, i= solated score, alternate film  endings, vampire folklore, film producti= on highlights, and FOUR! featurettes.  In addition the "Blade" DVD computer disk features: original screenplay, access to every sc= reen shot within screenplay, highlights from ComicCon '98, weblinks, and MOR= E (e.g., costume design)!!
This marvel (pun intended) of technology is a great information resource fo= r costume artists, film historians, scholars of popular culture, and chip he= ads.

Also, I have my G3 - DVD computer connected to my home entertainment system= --
The digital surround-sound (G3 + stereo sub-woofer) and pix image (G3 + RCA= connection to TV) blows me away.

A must experience

"The software box said Windows '98 or better, ... so I bought a MAC.&q= uot;  from garage.com.
 
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
Leta Hendricks
Assistant Professor
Head, EHS Systems
EHS Library
The Ohio State University
110 Sullivant Hall
1813 Neil Avenue
Columbus, Ohio  43210

614.292.2075
hendricks.3@osu.edu
http://www.hec.ohio-state.edu/hendrick/index.htm
http://www.lib.ohio-state.edu/OSU_profile/ehsweb/


--MS_Mac_OE_3019283540_380397_MIME_Part-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 4 08:59:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00593 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:59:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24553; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:13:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA14927 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:11:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14917 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:11:21 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6XRA0C1OZQ (4251) for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:10:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <28379039.25028266@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:10:46 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Blade DVD To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/04/1999 9:53:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hendricks.3@osu.edu writes: << The new Wesley Snipes "Blade" movie/computer DVD is WONDERFUL! >> And this [stupid, "not more of this"] movie has WHAT to do with H-costume? I certainly don't mind talking movies here if there is some costume related reason...but Blade?? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 4 09:35:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00615 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:35:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27337; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:49:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA18239 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:48:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18229 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:48:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [140.254.114.161] (ts33-10.homenet.ohio-state.edu [140.254.114.161]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01103 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:48:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909041448.KAA01103@mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 10:47:29 -0400 Subject: Re: H-COST: Blade DVD From: "Leta Hendricks" To: "h-costume@indra.com" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Leta Hendricks" I, as an African-American, educator, librarian, and technologist, find the "Blade" DVD a valuable resource for studying costume design in modern film genres, and developing multimedia rom products for teaching and instruction. "Blade," is one of the first multimedia DVD products. This DVD multimedia package offers more than entertainmnet -- information on film costume design and related subjects are presented on the disk. If this DVD is a huge commercial success, more multimedia DVDs will be developed for entertainment, education, and (hopefully) costume study use. Also, please define <<>> ASANTE/PEACE ---------- >From: AlbertCat@aol.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Blade DVD >Date: Sat, Sep 4, 1999, 10:10 AM > > > -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > > In a message dated 09/04/1999 9:53:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > hendricks.3@osu.edu writes: > > << The new Wesley Snipes "Blade" movie/computer DVD is WONDERFUL! >> > > And this [stupid, "not more of this"] movie has WHAT to do with H-costume? > > I certainly don't mind talking movies here if there is some costume related > reason...but Blade?? > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 4 09:44:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00622 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:44:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27978; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:58:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA19129 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:57:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19115 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:57:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA10149 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:54:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007401bef6e5$f979b800$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Blade DVD Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:58:39 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >I, as an African-American, educator, librarian, and technologist, find the >"Blade" DVD a valuable resource for studying costume design in modern film >genres, and developing multimedia rom products for teaching and instruction. Cool (I hope more movies put out multimedia DVDs with costume info in the future), but I suspect the objection is in the fact that "Blade" isn't a "historical" film, and so really isn't the main interest of this list, although that could have been stated better. We do talk about film costuming a fair bit, but it's almost always in connection to a movie that's set sometime in the past. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 4 10:26:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00657 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:26:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00594; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:41:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA23668 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:39:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc2.mi.home.com (ha1.rdc2.mi.home.com [24.2.68.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23661 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:39:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a ([24.4.53.172]) by mail.rdc2.mi.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990904153929.OZJI7576.mail.rdc2.mi.home.com@c59303a> for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 08:39:29 -0700 Message-ID: <007a01bef6eb$8b981560$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: H-COST: hair stull Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:33:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" here is an article about a hairdresser and how she finds things in places like home depot to fix up long hair! http://www.sltrib.com/96/FEB/04/tbz/04431571.htm Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 4 10:57:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00674 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:57:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02644; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:11:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA26928 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:10:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc2.mi.home.com (ha1.rdc2.mi.home.com [24.2.68.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26918 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:10:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a ([24.4.53.172]) by mail.rdc2.mi.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990904160957.PIPW7576.mail.rdc2.mi.home.com@c59303a> for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 09:09:57 -0700 Message-ID: <00a601bef6ef$cd5a0cc0$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: H-COST: three french ladies Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:05:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Myself and two friends will be dressing alike at our next 12th night. We are going to be French. The hoop skirt that once was online that I want to make is no longer there. The ones we want to make are the side hoops, the ones that are in two pieces and tied on at the waist. Does anyone know what I am talking about? I need the periods they were used and some reference material. I have books but just do not know where to start as they seem to jump periods quite a bit with the same design. Help! Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 4 11:29:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00714 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 11:29:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05340; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:43:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00708 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:42:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00700 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 10:42:23 -0600 (MDT) From: ErrickII@aol.com Received: from ErrickII@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6MWPa13743 (4185) for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:41:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 12:41:43 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Blade DVD To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ErrickII@aol.com In a message dated 9/4/99 10:16:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, AlbertCat@aol.com writes: > n a message dated 09/04/1999 9:53:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > hendricks.3@osu.edu writes: > > << The new Wesley Snipes "Blade" movie/computer DVD is WONDERFUL! >> > > And this [stupid, "not more of this"] movie has WHAT to do with H-costume? > > I certainly don't mind talking movies here if there is some costume related > reason...but Blade?? Lets see....Movies different flavors for different folks. Hollywood costume designer of the world. Movies source of costume design, historical or not. New technology, DVD stop action for costume design study. I can't sew very well, didn't care for the movie, but I still find this group useful and fun. I see a reasonable reason for that post. But that's only my .02 worth. Errick _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 4 14:40:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00842 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:40:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21338; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:53:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21768 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:51:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21757 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:51:46 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6RWP0GJMZ3 (3890) for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 15:51:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <213b3241.2502d22f@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 15:51:11 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: three french ladies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 9/4/1999 09:10:44 Pacific Daylight Time, ches@io.com writes: << The hoop skirt that once was online that I want to make is no longer there. The ones we want to make are the side hoops, the ones that are in two pieces and tied on at the waist.>> +++I'm fairly certain you're speaking of "paniers, or panniers" They were used in 18th century French court dress. They began as a "stiff underskirt fitted with more or less circular (or dome- or cupola-shaped) boned hoops, worn under the robe volante. It was then divided and took the form of oblong paniers, spreading the fulness of court gowns on either side of the hips." Boucher +++++ Does anyone know what I am talking about? I need the periods they were used and some reference material. I have books but just do not know where to start as they seem to jump periods quite a bit with the same design. Help! >> If this is indeed, the hoop skirts of which you speak, then you can find them in ref books on 18th century France, for sure. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "As in a theater, the eyes of men, after a well-graced actor leaves the stage, are idly bent on him that enters next, thinking his prattle to be tedious." Richard II; V, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 4 14:42:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00847 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:42:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21482; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:55:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21983 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:54:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21972 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 13:54:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FHJ00FJ5WLLLS@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 14:53:45 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sat, 04 Sep 1999 15:01:13 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Eurocentric complaint (OT?) X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990904150113.007a7e00@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson Is it possible that, if indeed Crichton did base his material at least in part on Ibn Fadlan's record (I'm neither saying he did or did not - I haven't studied it in any depth), and the movie is then based, in part, on that book, the perceptions of the Rus are not intended to portray an accurate perception of the Rus, but rather a (at least) third hand interpretation from a "civilized" Moslem dealing with strange barbarians? Is it not surprising then that the details are flagrantly wrong (after all, why shouldn't they be)? Personally, I think that expecting "accuracy" in the cinema is like expecting politicians to be honest (it's not when it happens and should be encouraged at all costs, but it's a little naive to assume it's the standard). These people are *storytellers*, not historians. If they need to change something to get a particular effect in the story, they are going to. (If anyone objects to these opinions, please discuss it with me off-list) Marc Carlson marc-carlson@utulsa.edu _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 4 19:12:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01027 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 19:12:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10026; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 18:27:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18605 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 18:25:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18600 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 18:25:32 -0600 (MDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6BAMa22755 (4262) for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 20:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 20:24:53 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: three french ladies To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 9/4/99 10:11:23 AM Mountain Daylight Time, ches@io.com writes: << Does anyone know what I am talking about? I need the periods they were used and some reference material. I have books but just do not know where to start as they seem to jump periods quite a bit with the same design. Help! >> They're called "panniers". Corsets and Crinolines has a very easy pattern. I've always used spring steel to hold them out. BTW I am a new subscriber to this list. My name is Cheryl Odom. I am a costume designer with an interest in social history and historic garments. I was on this list several years ago and then the address changes. Just found you again! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 4 22:44:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01267 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:44:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26231; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 21:59:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA09430 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 21:57:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09425 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 21:57:08 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ESEa00255 (4182) for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 23:56:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2560043d.250343d4@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 23:56:04 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Blade DVD To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/04/1999 10:57:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, nicolaa@columbus.rr.com writes: << "Blade" DVD a valuable resource for studying costume design in modern film >genres, and developing multimedia rom products for teaching and instruction. Cool (I hope more movies put out multimedia DVDs with costume info in the future), but I suspect the objection is in the fact that "Blade" isn't a "historical" film, >> Hmmmm I simply just don't remember anything in the film "Blade" that was definitive or even innovative or original for that matter. I found it purely imitative ....a bunch of bites from other "vampires among us"/ "tough guys in leather" film. Films like "Blade Runner" [ironic, huh?] or "Dark City" are more instructive as far as costume design....for dark futuristic films... than "Blade". [imho, of course] How about "Brazil"? Ok...all three have historical "roots" I suppose. How about "5th Element" or "The Cook, The Thief, His Wife & Her Lover" for contemporary designs? I just don't see "Blade" as informative costume wise as these others. If it's the "behind the scenes" feature of the DVD that appeals to you, be warned...they're not so very accurate and are conceived as commercials for the film. But, please, don't be upset just because I didn't like "Blade". _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 4 22:44:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01271 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 22:44:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26239; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 21:59:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA09519 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 21:57:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09513 for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 21:57:57 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6KIA0CMbfX (4182) for ; Sat, 4 Sep 1999 23:57:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <393740cd.25034420@aol.com> Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 23:57:20 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Blade DVD To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/04/1999 12:43:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ErrickII@aol.com writes: << Lets see...Movies different flavors for different folks. Hollywood costume designer of the world. Movies source of costume design, historical or not. New technology, DVD stop action for costume design study. I can't sew very well, didn't care for the movie, but I still find this group useful and fun. I see a reasonable reason for that post. But that's only my .02 worth. >> All this I can agree with. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 5 09:37:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA30771 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 09:37:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26687; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 08:52:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24088 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 08:50:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f84.hotmail.com [207.82.250.190]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA24082 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 08:50:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 55101 invoked by uid 0); 5 Sep 1999 14:49:33 -0000 Message-ID: <19990905144933.55100.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.66 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 05 Sep 1999 07:49:33 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.66] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: 18th c. quilted petticoats Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 07:49:33 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" I want to make one of these. I have a really nice rosy taupe glazed cotton that would be nice for the outer shell, and plan to underline it with lightweight wool. I only know a couple of people who have actually made quilted petticoats, and only one who did it entirely by hand. Of course, now I have lost contact with all of these people so I can't go back and ask them for pointers. I remember the one who did it by hand started out with wide spaces between the quilting so she could start wearing it, and as she had time, would sit down and keep quilting more bands and rows closer together so eventually it was quite closely patterned. When I saw it, it was gorgeous and she only had a portion of the back (under her outer gown, and not seen) to finish. I have not had the opportunity to examine an original, and would like to know if it would be more advisable to leave the woolen underlining as is or actually sandwich it between the outer shell and an inner lining of glazed linen. Anyone have any input? Regards, Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 5 10:07:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA30791 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 10:07:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28751; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 09:21:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA27010 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 09:20:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27001 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 09:20:26 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6OFYOfuL3_ (4552) for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 11:19:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <79410fb8.2503e415@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 11:19:49 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: 18th c. quilted petticoats To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com In a message dated 9/5/99 10:52:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, oh_susannah@hotmail.com writes: << I have not had the opportunity to examine an original, and would like to know if it would be more advisable to leave the woolen underlining as is or actually sandwich it between the outer shell and an inner lining of glazed linen. >> Susannah, 18th century quilted petticoats had 3 layers just like quilts as the batting was not as stable as today's battings can be. On the originals, the outer fabric ranged from china silk (did a reproduction of this one from the Colonial Williamsburg collection) to callimanco (modern polished cottons are a good imitation of this 18th century glazed wool) to wool satin. The batting was fairly thin and the backings were often shalloon (cheap glazed linen used for linings) or other cheaper fabrics with loose weave. Try a sample of the polished cotton to see that you can actually quilt through it -- some have such a high finish that it is difficult to get the needle through it! As to size, there was generally 4x waist measurement in petticoats. (If waist is 25", there is 100" in the skirt.) To minimize the bulk around the waist, some originals have an unquilted area of about 3" from the waistband. Have fun -- it's a great project. Sally Costume Calendar Series http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 5 12:13:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31025 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 12:13:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09723; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 11:27:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09691 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 11:26:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09686 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 11:26:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA22281 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 10:25:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-214.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.214]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA24551 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 10:25:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003c01bef7c4$99169fc0$7917fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Michelle & Elizabethan corsets Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 10:32:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" I have been using Friendly email. I have had problems with them. I can't view any attachments. When I have used the system on-line I get booted out while trying to compose messages, etc. I always download to my computer using the Express so the problems in the past hadn't bothered me. I just avoided them. This, however is a big problem. I had checked my mail 3 times in 24 hours, waiting for her response to my cry for help. At one point I had 25 emails. It was by no means full. Can someone please refer me to an email server that works?!? Michelle ->-Poster: Margo Anderson > >Sorry for the waste of bandwidth, folks, but this lady is on a heavy >deadline ands sounds desperate. > >Michelle: check your mailbox! I keep sending you the corset/bodice help, >and it's bouncing back with a "mailbox disk full" message. > >Margo _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 5 15:18:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00905 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 15:18:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24806; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 14:33:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28789 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 14:29:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28782 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 14:29:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-173.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.173]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA04295 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 13:29:43 -0700 Message-ID: <002101bef7dd$af557900$adaba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: New and Improved website Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 13:31:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" I am pleased to announce that I have FINALLY gotten around to revamping my website. It is up and running (except for a few "under construction" parts) and I have actually started working on my "jumpdress" again. You can see updates of this at: http://www.softcom.net/users/unicorn/jmpdress.htm My website including "Gallery of Garb" and "How to Make A Victorian Corset" is at: http://www.softcom.net/users/unicorn/index.html Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 5 15:29:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01088 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 15:29:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25932; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 14:44:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA00180 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 14:42:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00175 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 14:42:54 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6EBIa09417 (4228) for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:42:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:42:07 EDT Subject: H-COST: Website Up & running To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com Okay, so it's never going to be finished to my satisfaction, but I couldn't stand not sharing any longer, particularly after spending some time drooling at the goodies on Margo's site. Huzzah to her! Let me know if any links are broken or something really grabs you either way. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "Let me take you a buttonhole lower." Love's Labours Lost, V, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 5 15:31:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01109 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 15:31:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26069; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 14:46:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA00397 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 14:44:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from falcon.canfield.com (falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00388 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 14:44:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Leslie (u6-49.wa.net [206.191.135.113]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA21766 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 13:51:01 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990905131526.0358a750@mail.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslie@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 13:44:02 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: Hearsay and other tripe In-Reply-To: <199909041411.IAA14962@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Leslie Helms Perhaps some of you have seen a newspaper writeup about an event at which you were present, or that you know about from the inside, and you realize how distorted and downright untrue the news coverage is. It's also that inaccurate on the subjects you don't know about, of course, but that is harder to recognize. That's how I feel about the recent posts on 13th Warrior. Little or no substance, lots of irrelevant slander. I don't really care what anyone says about a movie (since I haven't worked on any myself) but the comments about this film make me question a lot of the other things I read on this list. If someone who hasn't even seen the movie feels comfortable reporting it as drunken, vomiting Viking schlock, then I really don't want to waste my attention on that person's comments about historical costuming! I see this kind of film as a great conversation-maker among costumers. (Extra points to everyone who recognized the gladiator's helmet!) Sorting out the silly bits (like plate armor) from the reasonable pieces is a good exercise to hone our own memories and skills. When inappropriate pieces are used in a movie like Elizabeth R, it's quite different from a hodgepodge of armor pieces used in what is clearly a fantasy movie. (And oh, don't I wish they'd had a continuity person in 13th Warrior! That sort of inaccuracy is even harder on me than the Tartars with spears... Spears! Hah!) On the other hand, if you didn't like this movie, it's entirely safe to just shut up about it. History remains intact and unviolated. My point is that it's just silly and mean-spirited to pick apart a film for its historical inaccuracy when there was no historical accuracy intended or attempted! However there is a wealth of ideas in it and things that worked, or almost worked, or didn't work, that were done on a vivid and intense scale. There was a particular jewelry piece made by an acquaintance of mine that I watched for and didn't see until my third viewing of the film. By then, believe me, I had made pretty accurate observations of most of the costuming. There was a lot of clothing that worked very well. Just the fact that people got dirty and stayed dirty was a massive improvement over much of what we see! Grumbly today, Leslie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 5 17:01:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01804 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 17:01:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04141; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:15:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA09090 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:13:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from phantom.golden.net (phantom.golden.net [199.166.210.30]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09079 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:13:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.183.130.84] (AS52-12-84.cas-kit.golden.net [209.183.130.84]) by phantom.golden.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07584 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 18:13:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 18:13:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: lgsteph@pop.golden.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gary Stephens Subject: H-COST: early 18thc waistcoat Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gary Stephens Dear List, I've run into a wee bit of a snag I wondered if any of you would be willing to assist me with? I'm launching into a new project for my embroidery frame, an early 18th century waistcoat, which will have an embroidered motif based upon one designed by Charles Germain St. Aubin for the occassion of the marriage of the Dauphin. It's a very exciting project, in that the design will all be fronds of gold bullion with delicate sprays of berries in shaded rose-colours and russets, all of this done on a gorgeous piece of royal blue saracenet (heavy silk twill) lined with royal blue striped silk jacquard. The embroidery is not my problem. It's the stupid pattern I'm working with! :-) And here is where I wondered if any you would be able to shed some light on the subject? It is a Harriet's TCS pattern with which I'm working, not the greatest as far as explanations go. I'm just fiddling up the muslin and lo, vague instructions and odd bits on the pattern. To be specific: I can find no documentation for patch pockets during that period. I've visited the Museum of Costume's website. Nothing with patch pockets. I've looked through my limited books. Nothing. Do any of you have reference for patch pockets during this period? My other difficulty is the side seams. Harriet has a small extension on the lower part of her side seam (which extends properly toward the back, not directly under the arm) which would lead one to believe this is perhaps for a miniscule box pleat. However, the extension is so small as to be useless. No problem. I could draft it larger. But, again, my problem is lack of documentation. I can find no visible examples of the sideseams of this style of waistcoat, and so I am unsure about going ahead and making the pleat. As well, I had always been under the assumption, likely mistakenly, this style of waistcoat had a back vent. Once more it seems all drawings and photos show the front, but not the sides or backs. Argh. Is this something any of you would know? Lorina Stephens -------------------------------------- Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage, period furniture & fine hand-sewn garments ~ e-mail: lgsteph@golden.net ~ website: http://www.historicmerchants.com/fiverivers _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 5 20:05:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02001 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:05:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18730; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:19:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27577 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:15:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from MailAndNews.com (mailandnews.com [206.156.199.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27565 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:15:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.6.194.47] (rvoris@mailandnews.com); Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:13:31 -0400 X-WM-Posted-At: MailAndNews.com; Sun, 5 Sep 99 21:13:31 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990905211951.007b0ad0@mailandnews.com> X-Sender: rvoris@mailandnews.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 21:19:51 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Rebecca Voris Subject: Re: H-COST: looking for cheap cotton solids In-Reply-To: <199908261509.JAA23731@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Rebecca Voris At 09:09 AM 8/26/99 -0600, you wrote: >Since my favorite fabric merchant wasn't at Pennsic, I'm now looking >for a source of very cheap 100% cotton in solid basic colors like >white, red, green, yellow, blue, etc. I'm used to paying $1-2/yd, but >that may not be possible. Any help you can give me would be greatly >appreciated! 1. Watch the sales at Jo-Anns. They frequently have cotton at $2/yd. 2. Check out SewFisticated Fabrics, in Twin City Plaza near Lechemere. $2-ish a yard is their regular price for all-cotton solids. 3. Get it wholesale at American Quilting Supply in Pembroke (where the Waytes get their fabric for the livery). Off-the-bolt solids are in the $2-ish range, but you must buy at least 10 yards. Or you can buy a bag of remnants, each one 5-11 yards, six to ten pieces in each bag, at $1.50/yd. Tell them you're from the Barony of Carolingia. Since we've already bought from them, you don't have to worry about the initial minimum purchase. -- Godith Anyon Carolingia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 5 20:37:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02033 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:36:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21637; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:50:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00978 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:48:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f63.hotmail.com [207.82.251.197]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA00969 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:48:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 59984 invoked by uid 0); 6 Sep 1999 01:48:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19990906014824.59983.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.68 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 05 Sep 1999 18:48:23 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.68] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: early 18thc waistcoat Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 18:48:23 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Lorina, First, I must compliment you on your website. Lovely work! We, too, having researched extensively, have been unable to find an even half-way decent waistcoat pattern available on the market. This includes the JP Ryan pattern, and numerous others. The shoulders NEVER fit correctly (too square) and the bodies are usually MUCH too baggy in the chest & hip areas, and do not give the proper 18th century "pigeon-breasted" silhouette, having been drafted to fit more of the "modern" square-shouldered figure. We therefore, when undertaking to make a mid-18th c. waistcoat, have chosen to do one of two things: 1. use the pattern in Cut of Men's Clothing of a waistcoat worn by Thomas Worsley, c. 1770 or so. This drafts nicely on graph paper to about a modern chest 40 (American). 2. we have drafted smaller and larger sizes, based on a pattern of our own design, firmy based on not only the above but on examination of originals. In no case have we ever seen, or heard of, patch pockets either on the inside or outside of any men's waistcoat before 1840, and I am not sure they would be appropriate after that, either... that's just the limit of my knowledge on the subject. We also do not exactly follow the pleated section at the (back) side seam you referred to. Usually waistcoats of this period do not have pleats, but rather vents, usually one on either side of the center back vent (you are correct in your statement that this should be there. You could easily add one.)... Is it possible that the forepart just overlays the back sections, and is not actually pleated? This would follow most waistcoats of the era that we have studied. I would hesitate to draft any part larger to accomodate the alleged pleats unless you are certain that this would have been more correct. I would highly suggest examining the shape of the pattern mentioned above in the Cut of Men's Clothes, by Norah Waugh, available on ILL and thru Amazon, for a good pattern to start with. You may either draft it out on graph paper, or change Harriet's pattern shapes to coincide with what you see. But you seem an intellegent and highly capable person (your lovely embroidery projects would certainly bear testament to that!), and I am sure you would do fine with a graphed pattern. The results would really be most correct. Please let me know if I can be of any help. Regards, Susannah > >-Poster: Gary Stephens > >Dear List, > > I've run into a wee bit of a snag ... an early 18th century waistcoat, >which will have an >embroidered... > >It's the stupid pattern I'm >working with! :-) And here is where I wondered if any you would be able to >shed some light on the subject? > > It is a Harriet's TCS pattern... To be specific: I can find no >documentation for patch pockets >during that period. Do any >of you have reference for patch pockets during this period? > > My other difficulty is the side seams. Harriet has a small >extension on the lower part of her side seam (which extends properly toward >the back, not directly under the arm) which would lead one to believe this >is perhaps for a miniscule box pleat. However, the extension is so small as >to be useless. > As well, I had always been under the assumption, likely mistakenly, >this style of waistcoat had a back vent. Once more it seems all drawings >and photos show the front, but not the sides or backs. Argh. Is this >something any of you would know? > >Lorina Stephens > "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 5 22:05:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02140 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 22:05:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00882; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:20:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA10042 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:18:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10031 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:18:25 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6CVWa23990 (4249) for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <49ce7b86.25048c53@aol.com> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:17:39 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: early 18thc waistcoat To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/05/1999 6:17:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lgsteph@golden.net writes: << I can find no documentation for patch pockets during that period. >> I've never seen them in a waistcoat. Indeed, the pocket flap's purpose is to cover the pocket "mouth"....the open whole that is ...when I do them...straight on top and curved on the bottom.....like a mouth. <> I've never seen this either. Usually the side seams of the waist coat are only sewn to a few inches below the waist....kinda like the coat. Perhaps you are to stop there & the little extra is just finished with the lining....like a little undrelap or something. <> Early waistcoats have long backs, as long as the fronts, which can come to the knee. As I said above, they are only sewn to a few inches below the waist. This is true of a CB seam too. Some waistcoats have backs that are shorter than the fronts but I think this is a later development. Early waistcoats are indeed very like coats. Many have [lace in] sleeves with embroidered cuffs a little smaller than the coat cuffs. They are often turned up over the coat cuffs. This is often misinterpreted in theatre as a coat with cuffs that match the waistcoat...but it's really the cuffs OF the waistcoat. I'm no historian but this has been my experience making 18th cen. men's things. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 6 00:37:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02248 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 00:37:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13931; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:51:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA25121 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:49:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from falcon.canfield.com (falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25115 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:49:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Leslie (u6-21.wa.net [206.191.135.85]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA21857 for ; Sun, 5 Sep 1999 22:55:52 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990905224156.03589960@mail.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslie@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 22:48:50 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: Apology! In-Reply-To: <199909052030.OAA28854@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Leslie Helms I get the digest, so I haven't seen any messages yet since I posted earlier today. However, I expect some list members may be justifiably annoyed with me. As I look back at what I wrote, what I then thought was a bit grumpy now appears quite rude. What I MEANT to say was that hearsay isn't a good basis for conversation, especially on a list like this which concerns itself with trying to sort out fact from fiction. What I DID say was much more direct than that; I ask the original poster on this topic, particularly, not to take it as a personal insult. I really mustn't post when my arthritic hip is screaming loudly at me. Back to the ibuprofen bottle now, Leslie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 6 13:21:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31691 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:21:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05717; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 12:36:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA16149 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 12:34:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16144 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 12:34:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from slave (BayArea56k506.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.106]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id LAA05621 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:33:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37D40858.5008@netwiz.net> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 11:30:48 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: 13th warrior References: <4.1.19990905131526.0358a750@mail.canfield.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi Leslie Helms wrote: > ... > That's how I feel about the recent posts on 13th Warrior. Little or no > substance, lots of irrelevant slander. I don't really care what anyone Well, I went to see it myself with my wannabe film-maker son. We really enjoyed it! Once you accept it as fantasy, the rest doesn't matter! > (Extra points to everyone who recognized the gladiator's helmet!) Me, me! And conquistador helmet/armor?? Don't know much about armor. I did groan when I.F. managed to fashion a scimitar out of a viking blade! Don't know much about Viking clothing either -- shirts, pants, cloaks looked ok, except for the plaid scarf on the guy with the Scots accent! Antonio's outfit was all wrong of course, looked like they re-cycled Omar Sharif's outfit fror Lawrence of Arabia, or maybe "the Sheik", i.e. Bedouin. Not 10th c. poet/scholar urban dweller. > of inaccuracy is even harder on me than the Tartars with spears... Good point. Should've been bows and arrows. Let's see, what other booboos... I was surprised to learn that redwoods grow in Scandinavia (kept expecting Ewoks to pop out of the woods), and at one point I.F. comments on the long summer evenings, when just a bit earlier, it had been pouring down rain and seemed cold. And the gore was not unbearable. Obviously violence was necessary, as it was a battle between good and evil! It was a ripping good, swashbucking yarn and worth seeing just for fun. Susan (After the movie I went next door to buy 2 of the Queen Amidala dolls. I didn't even know they were available, didn't anyone on the list mention them?? Not the $60 "collector's edition", just the regular ones.) -- susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 6 13:29:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31721 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:29:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06394; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 12:44:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA16981 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 12:42:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16975 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 12:42:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from slave (BayArea56k506.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.106]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id LAA07058 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37D40A72.8F5@netwiz.net> Date: Mon, 06 Sep 1999 11:39:46 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: p.s.13th warrior References: <4.1.19990905131526.0358a750@mail.canfield.com> <37D40858.5008@netwiz.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi Susan Fatemi wrote: > Antonio's outfit was all wrong of course, looked like they > re-cycled Omar Sharif's outfit fror Lawrence of Arabia, or > maybe "the Sheik", i.e. Bedouin. Not 10th c. poet/scholar > urban dweller. Forgot to mention, Antonio's shirt had a zillion cute little buttons on it (nobody was using buttons in the 10th c, right?) And his jacket looked like late Ottoman, heavily embroidered and beaded. Still liked it! Susan -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 6 13:31:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA31737 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 13:31:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06586; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 12:46:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17159 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 12:44:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17154 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 12:44:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p6.directcon.net [206.170.184.55]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA28938 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:43:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909061843.LAA28938@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: corset and bodice videos Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Has anyone seen the corset and bodice making videos advertised on this page: : http://www.augproductions.com or know who was involved with them? The name given is "Fashions through History". Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 6 15:51:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31950 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:51:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22283; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:04:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00873 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:02:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00864 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:02:02 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6CCKa07446 (4258) for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:01:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3d470d5f.250585b4@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:01:40 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: 13th warrior [OT] To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/06/1999 2:37:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, susanf@netwiz.net writes: << Once you accept it as fantasy, the rest doesn't matter! >> The irony is that one of the book's purposes was to interject reality into the myth of Beowulf. Now the film ignores reality & history to make it a mythic action flick....and we've come full circle [except Beowulf has more value culturally, yes' _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 6 15:54:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA31967 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:54:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22823; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:10:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA01235 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:06:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01229 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:06:16 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ZQP0NLml0 (4258) for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:05:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:05:39 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: corset and bodice videos To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/06/1999 2:46:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << http://www.augproductions.com >> Cool! Except I don't like the corset or bodice pictured. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 6 16:21:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32085 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 16:21:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25870; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:36:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA03999 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:34:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03989 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:34:32 -0600 (MDT) From: ErrickII@aol.com Received: from ErrickII@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6OVRa22756 (3861) for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:33:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <741fc8ad.25058d47@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:33:59 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: 13th warrior To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ErrickII@aol.com In a message dated 9/6/99 2:39:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, susanf@netwiz.net writes: > Well, I went to see it myself with my wannabe film-maker son. > We really enjoyed it! Once you accept it as fantasy, the rest > doesn't matter! > > > (Extra points to everyone who recognized the gladiator's helmet!) Point! Historical not....Fun Yes. I even enjoyed finding errors. Errick _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 6 16:40:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA32107 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 16:40:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27618; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:55:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11202 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:53:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11193 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:53:21 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.193] (ppp193.creative.net [208.225.99.193]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA04004 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:53:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:01:48 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Looking For Commentary on Arnold... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net A few weeks ago i finally saw a booklet i'd heard about. It was written by a (former?) SCA member in the 1980's, IIRC, who criticized many of Arnold's costume drafts. The book is based on his practical experience, he made pieces by her directions then by his corrected method. The book includes extensive commentary, photographs and diagrams. The title is escaping me at the moment. I'd really like a copy. But it was one of those self-published, plastic-spiral bound thingies sold at SCA events. The author lived in St. Louis MO, i think. Any hints, clues, copies for sale, possible trades? Thanks Lilinah, SCA'ly known as Anahita _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 6 17:51:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA32221 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:51:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05028; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:06:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18282 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:04:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from phantom.golden.net (phantom.golden.net [199.166.210.30]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18274 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 17:04:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.183.128.81] (AS52-02-81.cas-kit.golden.net [209.183.128.81]) by phantom.golden.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06903 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:04:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: lgsteph@pop.golden.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909062106.PAA01246@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Gary Stephens Subject: H-COST: Re: early 18thc waistcoat Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gary Stephens Dear Susannah, et al, Many thanks for the information. I've since today found a little more primary source documentation to support my suspicions and yours, and spent the day drafting my own pattern and now have the left front embroidery pattern transfered. I'm so excited I'm twitching, but one needs be sensible. :-) I am indeed allowing the side extension to become a vent. And have modified for a back vent as well. Found no evidence of patch pockets so trashed Harriet's concept and went with the welt and flap. For any considering sewing patterns, I would hestitate to recommend the Harriet's long waistcoat pattern. The cover line drawing indicates a waistcoat c1740, when in fact on the pattern she indicates 1760. Completely different style. And you've already heard the other problems. Like many of you, seems drafting your own is the only way to go. However, there are two other long 18th c. waistcoat patterns available, which are allegedly very good: Tailor's Guide and Pegee of Williamsburg. I intend working with each before year end in order to attest to their accuracy when I offer mailorder historical sewing patterns for the general public. Again, many thanks for the assistance. regards Lorina Stephens -------------------------------------- Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage, period furniture & fine hand-sewn garments ~ e-mail: lgsteph@golden.net ~ website: http://www.historicmerchants.com/fiverivers _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 6 18:53:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA32350 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 18:53:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10459; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 18:07:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24012 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 18:05:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24003 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 18:05:29 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6MVMa07437 (4461) for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:04:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1b494c56.2505b09f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:04:47 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: early 18thc waistcoat To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/06/1999 7:06:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lgsteph@golden.net writes: << and went with the welt and flap. >> Do they do that? I mean what we think of as a conventional welt & flap. On 18th century things I have always just made the open "mouth" in the front pieces, made the flap up as a separate thingie, then stab stitched it over mouth. The flap is not set into the top of the mouth, and the mouth does not have a welt but is finished with the pocket bag. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 6 20:00:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32388 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:00:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17685; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:15:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00766 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:13:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00758 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:13:02 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6HMA09iJPq (3950) for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:12:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:12:04 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: early 18thc waistcoat To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Albert and all -- Yes, you are correct, the pocket opening is generally curved opening and the pocket flap is attached over the opening, stab stitched to the body of the waistcoat. A slight curve to the flap, not stitched straight across is the period aesthetics. I am looking at waistcoat, circa 1700 - 1720 from Royal Ontario Museums (featured in January 2000 calendar, Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries). Sleeved waistcoat, quilted linen, embrodiered with silk and metallic threads, 22 buttons from neck to hem. The side view shows the "smiley" pocket flap beautifully. Primary sources always help get the details correct... Sally Costume Calendar Series http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 6 21:23:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32501 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 21:23:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26740; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:38:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA08973 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:36:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web601.yahoomail.com (web1103.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.123]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA08966 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:36:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990907023600.16566.rocketmail@web601.yahoomail.com> Received: from [207.229.150.83] by web1103.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 06 Sep 1999 19:36:00 PDT Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:36:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell Subject: H-COST: re:cheap cotton solids To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carol Mitchell I don't know if they have these stores where you live, but I noticed Hobby Lobby was advertising 100% cotton broadcloth for $2.25 a yard, in many colors. They also have the usual patterns, if your local fabric store happens to be out of stock. Carol Mitchell === Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 6 23:09:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA32664 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 23:09:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08709; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:24:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA19857 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:21:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from MailAndNews.com (mailandnews.com [206.156.199.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19852 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 22:21:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.6.194.47] (rvoris@mailandnews.com); Tue, 7 Sep 1999 00:19:23 -0400 X-WM-Posted-At: MailAndNews.com; Tue, 7 Sep 99 00:19:23 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990907002536.007d52d0@mailandnews.com> X-Sender: rvoris@mailandnews.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 00:25:36 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Rebecca Voris Subject: Re: H-COST: looking for cheap cotton solids In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990905211951.007b0ad0@mailandnews.com> References: <199908261509.JAA23731@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Rebecca Voris At 09:19 PM 9/5/99 -0400, I wrote a message in reply to someone I know who had asked on h-costume about cheap cotton. I distinctly recall checking the To: field, and seeing that the message was set to go to my friend. I seem to have neglected to check to CC: field, however, for I see it has ended up on the list. This would be all right, if somewhat confusing for non-locals, except I included: >3. Get it wholesale at American Quilting Supply in Pembroke (where the >Waytes get their fabric for the livery). Off-the-bolt solids are in the >$2-ish range, but you must buy at least 10 yards. Or you can buy a bag of >remnants, each one 5-11 yards, six to ten pieces in each bag, at $1.50/yd. >Tell them you're from the Barony of Carolingia. Since we've already bought >from them, you don't have to worry about the initial minimum purchase. This offer was intended for a private individual, not a general audience. First, I apologize for my clumsiness in not setting my fields correctly. Secondly, I apologize if I have confused or misled anyone. -- Rebecca Voris Boston, MA _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 02:17:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA11643 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 02:17:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19458; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 01:32:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA04715 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 01:29:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.rma.edu (IDENT:root@smtp.rma.edu [207.0.141.48]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04709 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 01:29:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from josephru (USR1-182.rmaonline.net [207.48.171.182]) by smtp.rma.edu (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA01533 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 03:29:28 -0400 Message-ID: <002001bef902$1f9594a0$b6ab30cf@josephru> From: "Joseph & Christine" To: "Historic Costume List" Subject: H-COST: Fw: Brown donation cloth Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 03:23:44 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Joseph & Christine" Forwarded at the request of the author. Please respond to her directly. Thanks, Joseph Ruckman Christine L. Malson-Ruckman ----- Original Message ----- From: Cathy Johnson To: <18cWoman@onelist.com>; revlist Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 8:29 PM Subject: [Revlist] Brown donation cloth > From: graphicart@epsi.net (Cathy Johnson) > > Dear esteemed lists, > > Please pardon the cross-posting, but I know there are people on the > 18th C woman list that are not on RevList. There are a number of > references to "brown donation cloth" being, obviously, perhaps, donated > for trousers/breeches (?) for some of the Highland regiments after a > period of time in the war. Does anyone know what that might have been, > or what the modern equivalent might be? Linen, wool? Tow? Hemp? > Anyone?? > > Thanking you in advance... > > Regards, > Kate > graphicart@epsi.net > Graphics/Fine Arts Press > Journal of the Middle Waters Frontier > > > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- > > ONElist: your connection to people who share your interests. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > RevList - http://www.meridian.com/revlist/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 10:07:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29555 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:07:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21221; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:22:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11181 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:19:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web803.mail.yahoo.com (web803.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA11164 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:19:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990907151947.5915.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web803.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 08:19:47 PDT Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:19:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: H-COST: The History of Costume To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I just bought Carl Koehler (sp?)'s "History of Costume"... so far I like it, but can someone explain to me about the diagrams? What do the numbers stand for... I assume that they are measurements, but in what unit, etc? Please help? Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 10:55:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29797 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:55:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29038; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:10:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24887 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:08:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [209.246.15.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24882 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:08:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA29709 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id JAA27785; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 09:08:01 -0700 Message-ID: <37D53649.50595F5D@us.oracle.com> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 11:59:06 -0400 From: Elizabeth Jones Organization: Oracle Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Videos Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------21A2A588585EB759BD7E9146" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Jones This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------21A2A588585EB759BD7E9146 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Margo Anderson wrote: "Has anyone seen the corset and bodice making videos advertised on this page: http://www.augproductions.com" I have not seen the videos themselves. But judging from the pictures, I wonder about accuracy. Where are the shoulder straps on the Elizabethan corset? I have made corsets like the one pictured, but always felt they were more costume than proper clothing. Has anyone ever found documentation for a corset/pair of bodies with no straps in the 16th-17th century timeframe? Not too much extant, but before I condemned the picture for accuracy, I thought to doublecheck my own knowledge base! Thanks, Liz Jones ljones@us.oracle.com Maestra Damiana Illaria d'Onde --------------21A2A588585EB759BD7E9146 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ljones.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Elizabeth Jones Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ljones.vcf" begin:vcard n:;Elizabeth Jones x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr;dom;quoted-printable:;;Oracle Corporation =0D=0A100 Summit Lake Drive;Valhalla;NY;10595; org:Global Networks version:2.1 email;internet:ljones@us.oracle.com title:Senior Project Manager tel;fax:203-267-5856 tel;work:914-773-8169 x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Elizabeth Jones end:vcard --------------21A2A588585EB759BD7E9146-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 11:56:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29863 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:56:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10726; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:11:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA12250 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:08:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12238 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:08:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gia-g (dialup347.serv.net [207.207.70.240]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA03834 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009f01bef953$b2da3800$f046cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Looking For Commentary on Arnold... Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:06:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" The Annotated Arnold, but of course can't find my copy. By (I think) Howard Trump. Drafting & Constructing a Simple Doublet & Trunkhose of the Spanish Renaissance is by RW Trump. I found my copy of that one. Gia/Giacinta -----Original Message----- From: lilinah@grin.net To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Monday, September 06, 1999 2:57 PM Subject: H-COST: Looking For Commentary on Arnold... > >-Poster: lilinah@grin.net > >A few weeks ago i finally saw a booklet i'd heard about. It was written by >a (former?) SCA member in the 1980's, IIRC, who criticized many of Arnold's >costume drafts. The book is based on his practical experience, he made >pieces by her directions then by his corrected method. The book includes >extensive commentary, photographs and diagrams. The title is escaping me at >the moment. > >I'd really like a copy. But it was one of those self-published, >plastic-spiral bound thingies sold at SCA events. The author lived in St. >Louis MO, i think. > >Any hints, clues, copies for sale, possible trades? > >Thanks > >Lilinah, SCA'ly known as Anahita > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 12:03:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29879 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:03:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11627; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:14:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13346 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:12:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13335 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:12:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gia-g (dialup347.serv.net [207.207.70.240]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA04347 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00a401bef954$32e39fa0$f046cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Looking For Commentary on Arnold... Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:12:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Ah! I wrote that I *thought* RW Trump did the Annotated Arnold, and in reading the Introduction in the "Drafting & ...etc" that he says he wrote it. BTW, the "Drafting & ...etc" is based upon the Tailors Pattern Book of Juan de Alcega. Gia/Giacinta _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 12:22:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29916 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:22:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14538; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:29:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18414 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:27:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18407 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:27:33 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18477 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:27:31 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA12562 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:27:31 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:27:31 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: must have costume books In-Reply-To: <00a401bef954$32e39fa0$f046cfcf@gia-g> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Could you all send me these titles with isbn numbers please? server hiccup again, lost your emails, sigh. :( Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 12:53:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29978 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:53:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20813; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27682 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:05:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27669 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:05:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p3.directcon.net [206.170.184.52]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA19948 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:04:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:04:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909071804.LAA19948@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Videos Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:59 AM 09/07/1999 -0400, you wrote: >Margo Anderson wrote: > >"Has anyone seen the corset and bodice making videos advertised on this >page: > http://www.augproductions.com" > >I have not seen the videos themselves. But judging from the pictures, I >wonder about accuracy. Where are the shoulder straps on the Elizabethan >corset? I have made corsets like the one pictured, but always felt they >were more costume than proper clothing. Yes, I wondered about that too. the strapless corset seems to be based on the "Elizabethan costume book" whose writers, in a conversation some years ago, made no bones (pun intended) about the fact that they extrapolated backwards from the 18th century. I think it's very likely that Elizabethan corsets were probably along the lines of the one in Janet Arnold: basically, a heavily boned bodice. They are more comfortable and the look better, because the shoulder straps pull the breasts forward instead on flattening them into the underarm, and the full back maintains a smoother line, rather than the upper back bulge that a strapless corset can give. What I really don't understand are the strange tab/extensions at the waist, with square cutouts between them. Aren't they too widely spaced to perform the usual function of tabs, i.e., transferring the pressure of the bones from the waist to the hips? And wouldn't hips with any excess fleash at all bulge out from between them in a really ugly and uncomfortable way? The bodice also seems to be cut much too long along the side seams, and the pink satin ribbon trim doesn't impress me, either. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 13:16:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30012 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:16:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24674; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:31:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03239 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:28:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03232 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:28:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.192]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:22:59 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Videos Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 18:21:29 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37d8563e.130325681@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <199909071804.LAA19948@zeus.directcon.net> In-Reply-To: <199909071804.LAA19948@zeus.directcon.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id MAA03233 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) Well, I did some poking about on the site, and they are shown as having a 'Partners or vendors' relationship with AlterYears. Going to the AlterYears website further leads me to beleive that these are video demos of the construction of the AlterYears bodice and corset patterns/kits. THey are probably a side business from AlterYears, as thay have no other products. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 13:20:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30018 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:20:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24812; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:31:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03610 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:29:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA03588 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 12:29:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.405) with smtp for sender: id ; Tue, 7 Sep 99 13:29:39 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <007e01bef95e$88dd5040$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Videos Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:26:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" Actually this is the corset you can order from Alter Years. Which if you go to their vendors and partners link you will find there. So that is where they got it I suspect. Carol Ross >Yes, I wondered about that too. the strapless corset seems to be based on >the "Elizabethan costume book" whose writers, in a conversation some years >ago, made no bones (pun intended) about the fact that they extrapolated >backwards from the 18th century. > > I think it's very likely that Elizabethan corsets were probably along the >lines of the one in Janet Arnold: basically, a heavily boned bodice. They >are more comfortable and the look better, because the shoulder straps pull >the breasts forward instead on flattening them into the underarm, and the >full back maintains a smoother line, rather than the upper back bulge that a >strapless corset can give. > >What I really don't understand are the strange tab/extensions at the waist, >with square cutouts between them. Aren't they too widely spaced to perform >the usual function of tabs, i.e., transferring the pressure of the bones >from the waist to the hips? And wouldn't hips with any excess fleash at all >bulge out from between them in a really ugly and uncomfortable way? > >The bodice also seems to be cut much too long along the side seams, and the >pink satin ribbon trim doesn't impress me, either. > >Margo Anderson > >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 14:32:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA30151 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:32:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06652; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:43:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18687 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:40:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18671 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:40:41 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11615 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:40:40 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA18822 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:40:39 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:40:39 -0500 (CDT) To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: victorian manners book Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Can anyone recommend a book that not out of print that teaches young girls about victorian manners? Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 15:03:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30250 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:03:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12438; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:17:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27180 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:15:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27169 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:15:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.81.91] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A14E16F70148; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 16:10:54 -0400 Message-ID: <000b01bef96d$a8cb4d80$5b51ccd1@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: victorian manners book Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:14:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 3:40 PM > -Poster: ches@io.com > > Can anyone recommend a book that not out of print that teaches young girls > about victorian manners? > > Sincerely, > F. Havas > While not specifically for children "The Essential Handbook of Victorian Etiquette" by Thomas Hill is a decent guide to the manners and mores of the time but if you're looking for something more fun and appealing to a little one (about ages 6 - 10 or so) "What Do You Say, Dear?" and "What Do You Do, Dear" by Sesyle Joslin, with illustrations by Maurice Sendak, are absolutely adorable. They're not "Victorian" per se, but they manage to include most of the proper behaviours of the time. Hope these help! Kerrie :-D _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 15:20:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30270 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:20:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15544; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:35:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA01467 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:33:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01454 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:33:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA29528 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:33:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-125.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.125]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA01670 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:33:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009001bef971$1a0af920$80a7fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: victorian manners book Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 13:39:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" I saw a cute book. It was small and inexpensive. (only 10 dollars or so) I think it was called, "The Essential Guide to Victorian Etiquette." It was supposed to have been highlights of a book printed back then. Michelle -----Original Message----- From: ches@io.com To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Date: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 12:43 PM Subject: H-COST: victorian manners book > >-Poster: ches@io.com > >Can anyone recommend a book that not out of print that teaches young girls >about victorian manners? > >Sincerely, >F. Havas >ches@io.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 15:24:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30289 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:24:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16064; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:38:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02067 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:36:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02057 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:36:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.81.91] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A62F1B1A00EA; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 16:31:43 -0400 Message-ID: <001201bef970$9164ac60$5b51ccd1@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: <000b01bef96d$a8cb4d80$5b51ccd1@ouppc> Subject: Re: H-COST: victorian manners book Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:35:46 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" Oops! Please forgive the multiple messages here. After I hit 'send' I realised that I should have mentioned one caveat in my endorsement of "What Do You Say, Dear?". The book was originally published sometime in the 1950's when "Cowboys and Indians" was a common childhood game and toy guns didn't carry the deadly implications that they do in these sad modern times. The manners are introduced to children through Sendak's fanciful drawings of imaginative situations in which a child might find herself. Most are charmingly silly, but I do recall one that bothered me enough to omit it when I read the book to my little boy. In it a "wild west" bad guy questions the child with "Would you like me to blow a hole in your head?" Much too graphic for me I'm afraid. Luckily I don't remember any similar offenses in the sequel book, or any more than that one in the original. Off again! Kerrie ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 4:14 PM > -Poster: "Vince Lyons" > > ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 3:40 PM > > -Poster: ches@io.com > > > > Can anyone recommend a book that not out of print that teaches young girls > > about victorian manners? > > > > Sincerely, > > F. Havas > > > > While not specifically for children "The Essential Handbook of Victorian > Etiquette" by Thomas Hill is a decent guide to the manners and mores of the > time but if you're looking for something more fun and appealing to a little > one (about ages 6 - 10 or so) "What Do You Say, Dear?" and "What Do You Do, > Dear" by Sesyle Joslin, with illustrations by Maurice Sendak, are absolutely > adorable. They're not "Victorian" per se, but they manage to include most > of the proper behaviours of the time. > > Hope these help! > Kerrie :-D > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 15:32:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30309 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:32:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17611; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:47:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA04086 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:44:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04067 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:44:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11OS6f-0006da-0B for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:44:46 +0000 Message-ID: <+89bADA7jX13IwB2@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:43:39 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: victorian manners book In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie I have one which is for women and girls of marriagable age, rather than young girls, but might help It's a reproduction of "Manners for women" by Mrs Humphry, a general manual for women, not only what we think of as manners, but also what to wear, how to arrange a dinner party, etiquette when bicycling, how to laugh prettily, all those things you need to know. It is very late 19th century, but it is just Victorian - there are various references to the Queen, and the menu from the Duchess of York's wedding breakfast, so maybe you can date it from that. This is produced by Pryor Publications, specialist in facsimile reproductions. ISBN 0 946014 71 5. The publishers are at: 75 Dargate Road, Yorkletts, Whitstable, Kent, England, tel & fax +44 227 274655 Jean In message , ches@io.com writes > >-Poster: ches@io.com > >Can anyone recommend a book that not out of print that teaches young girls >about victorian manners? > >Sincerely, >F. Havas >ches@io.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 15:53:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30366 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:53:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20623; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:07:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA09094 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:04:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09079 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:04:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA13161 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:04:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-125.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.125]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA22705 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <012f01bef975$7cc30cc0$80a7fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "costume list" Subject: H-COST: Eleonora of Toledo Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:10:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_012C_01BEF93A.CF793880" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_012C_01BEF93A.CF793880 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.southern.com/wm/paint/auth/bronzino/eleonora.jpg This dress was a topic of conversation a couple weeks ago on the = SCA-Garb list. I asked the list what they thought of the child's = clothing at her right. I got no response. I then forwarded the message = to H-Cost. I got no response. (Probably because of my wacky email = server...) I thought I would try again. The child seems to be wearing a simple = tunic over a fancier edged chemise. What does everyone think of that? As parents we may be working to hard to dress out kids. If someone = higher born is wearing a tunic, why don't more of us dress our kids this = way? It would be a lot easier to accumulate a few things for them to = wear if it was something easier to make.=20 MIchelle ------=_NextPart_000_012C_01BEF93A.CF793880 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
http= ://www.southern.com/wm/paint/auth/bronzino/eleonora.jpg
 
   This dress was a topic = of=20 conversation a couple weeks ago on the SCA-Garb list.  I asked the = list=20 what they thought of the child's clothing at her right.  I got no=20 response.  I then forwarded the message to H-Cost.  I got no=20 response.  (Probably because = of my wacky=20 email server...)
    I thought I would = try=20 again.  The child seems to be wearing a simple tunic over a fancier = edged=20 chemise.  What does everyone think of that?
    As parents we may = be working=20 to hard to dress out kids.  If someone higher born is wearing a = tunic, why=20 don't more of us dress our kids this way?  It would be a lot easier = to=20 accumulate a few things for them to wear if it was something easier to = make.=20
   = MIchelle
------=_NextPart_000_012C_01BEF93A.CF793880-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 15:55:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30373 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:55:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA21070; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:10:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA09957 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:07:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09937 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:07:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA14485 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-125.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.125]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA24910 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <015201bef975$f66a3d00$80a7fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "costume list" Subject: H-COST: Fw: Re: Eleonora di Toledo Gown Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:14:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Here is what I forwarded before...is it formiliar to anyone? I am wondering to what extent my email service has failed. -----Original Message----- From: Michelle To: SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU Date: Friday, August 27, 1999 4:45 PM Subject: Re: Eleonora di Toledo Gown >>snip >>> This winter I'm hoping to make either a direct "replica" or a gown >>> "inspired" by the gown worn by Eleonora da Toledo, Grand Duchess of >>> Tuscany by Bronzino circa 1540s - the portrait can be seen at: >>> http://www.southern.com/wm/paint/auth/bronzino/eleonora.jpg > > > > >The child in the picture with Eleonora of Toledo looks to be wearing a >simple T tunic and chemise with ruffled collar and neck. (almost looks like >a polo shirt! ;) ) I wanted to see what everyone thought of this. I have >learned fairly recently that children, of either sex, wore gowns like young >ladies until they were of potty training age. The pictures that I have seen >all apeared to be more elaborate and more fitted than this. > As fast as these kids grow, we could be doing ourselfs in, by trying to >keep up with the new costumes. It would be far easier to have some of these >and maybe one elaborate. With the blend of Engish and Spanish dress, such >as the partlet, I would think that we would see more of this type of dress. > Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 16:04:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30389 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:04:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22553; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:18:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12313 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:16:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12307 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:16:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18638 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:16:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-125.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.125]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01028 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:16:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <019301bef977$2d331720$80a7fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Wow! Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:23:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Ahhh, shucks! Auction is ended but, it never met the reserve. I had heard that one of the only costuming rental places here in town (Fresno, CA) has gone out of business. I wonder if their stuff will end up on E Bay too. > >-Poster: Sarah Toney > >I just have to share my awe and jealousy for a >moment... here I am... supposed to be working, but I >am playing on e-Bay instead... and I come across a >company selling their entire costume collection... >now, it is $200,000 and takes 3500 square feet of >space, but I thought ya'll might just get the >amusement out of looking that I did... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=153740240 > >Sarah > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 16:06:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30397 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:06:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23145; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA13174 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:19:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13148 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:19:47 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6TYFYYwmd_ (3996) for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:19:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1f487142.2506db51@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:19:13 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: victorian manners book To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/07/1999 4:37:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, vjlyons@snip.net writes: << n it a "wild west" bad guy questions the child with "Would you like me to blow a hole in your head?" >> Of course the proper Victorian reply is: "Oh my goodness no! [curtsey] But thank you very much for asking." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 16:08:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30401 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:08:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23543; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:23:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA13611 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:21:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13588 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:21:30 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22903 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:21:26 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA24151 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:21:26 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:21:26 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Wow! In-Reply-To: <019301bef977$2d331720$80a7fea9@gunsafes> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Actually, they are selling the costumes off one at a time from their website. The Juliet costum for example is going for 250.00, I asked for elizabethan underpinnings but they either did not understand the question or they do not have any. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Michelle wrote: > Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 14:23:05 -0700 > From: Michelle > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Wow! > > > -Poster: "Michelle" > > Ahhh, shucks! Auction is ended but, it never met the reserve. > I had heard that one of the only costuming rental places here in town > (Fresno, CA) has gone out of business. I wonder if their stuff will end up > on E Bay too. > > > > >-Poster: Sarah Toney > > > >I just have to share my awe and jealousy for a > >moment... here I am... supposed to be working, but I > >am playing on e-Bay instead... and I come across a > >company selling their entire costume collection... > >now, it is $200,000 and takes 3500 square feet of > >space, but I thought ya'll might just get the > >amusement out of looking that I did... > > > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=153740240 > > > >Sarah > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 16:15:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30451 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:15:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24280; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:29:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14995 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:27:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailhost.neaccess.net (mailhost.neaccess.net [204.255.214.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14979 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:27:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dkenton (camb0410.capecod.net [209.244.245.156]) by mailhost.neaccess.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA08956 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:27:18 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990907172645.00d072bc@neaccess.net> X-Sender: kenton@neaccess.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 17:26:45 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Donna Kenton Subject: Re: H-COST: victorian manners book In-Reply-To: <1f487142.2506db51@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Donna Kenton ><< n it a "wild west" bad guy questions the child with > "Would you like me to blow a hole in your head?" >> > >Of course the proper Victorian reply is: > >"Oh my goodness no! [curtsey] But thank you very much for asking." <::snort::> Not fair! Now I have to wipe Diet Pepsi off my monitor! Donna __________________________________________________ Visit my web page! http://www.dabbler.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 16:49:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30534 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:49:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29749; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:03:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23172 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:59:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spamgaac.compuserve.com (as-img-3.compuserve.com [149.174.217.146]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23049; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 15:59:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.5) id RAA21881; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:59:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:58:58 -0400 From: Margaret Bolger Subject: H-COST: UK - Antique Costume & Textiles Fair To: all Cc: all , all , all , all Message-ID: <199909071759_MC2-83E2-EC0E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id PAA23057 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margaret Bolger Hello all Just to let you know that my next 'Antique Costume & Textiles Fair' is fast approaching - Sunday 19th September in Manchester UK. Once again, the Fair is 'sold out', with nearly 80 dealers from all over the UK, and some from France and Belgium. Bonhams auctioneers will be giving free textile valuations, and Pat Earnshaw will be giving free lace valuations. The Fan Circle International, Slipknot Guild and the Knitting & Crochet Guild will also have information stands. Once again - if you can't make it to the Fair, let me know if there is anything you would like me to look for on your behalf. If you are planning to be there - don't forget to stop and say hello! Margaret antique costume & textiles http://www.artizania.co.uk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 18:06:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30638 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:06:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11023; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:19:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10732 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:14:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10723 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:14:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21404 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:13:58 -0400 Message-ID: <37D59C37.F80AAC08@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:14:21 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Eleonora of Toledo/child References: <012f01bef975$7cc30cc0$80a7fea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > I thought I would try again. The child seems to be wearing a > simple tunic over a fancier edged chemise. What does everyone think > of that? I'm not so certain it's a tunic, although this is not my period. Next to his hanging hand, the color of the surrounding area changes. If the kid had on a loosely fitted doublet over lighter pants, it would explain the color change. However, I think drawing conclusions from this picture might be difficult. The artist's attention was clearly on Eleonara and her dress; the child is possibly a symbolic prop "look how motherly she is" and in any case, it's not too surprising that the minute details of his costume were not all drawn in (aside from those blackwork edges, which set off his face and hands.) cv _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 18:21:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30653 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:21:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13255; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:33:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13439 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:28:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from phantom.golden.net (phantom.golden.net [199.166.210.30]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13430 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:28:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.183.134.40] (AS52-31-40.cas-kit.golden.net [209.183.134.40]) by phantom.golden.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20981 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:28:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:28:16 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: lgsteph@pop.golden.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gary Stephens Subject: H-COST: 18thc waistcoats - Harriet's reply Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gary Stephens Many thanks to all of you for the information. I thought you might be interested to hear what the pattern-maker herself had to say on the subject. My bits are in brackets. --------------------------------------------------------------------- (In your cutting and sewing instructions it would appear you mean for the pockets to either be patch pockets, or to be self lined. If it's the former, I can find no documentation to support patch pockets. If it's the latter, the hand sewing will likely show very slightly on the outside, or is that not a problem?) Re: Pockets. My mistake; the pattern should read: (Cut 4). The inside of the pocket opening is reinforced w/ linen, the opening cut & pockets attached to the opening/flat edge of pocket. The pockets hang, once the 2 halves are sewn around. Then the flap is sewn on the outside. I have always lined my waistcoats, so they were never seen. **You could cut the pocket on a fold/top edge and then sew around the opening like a bound buttonhole or an 18th C. vest. Not as authentic, though-just a shortcut. (My other difficulty is the side seams. There is a small extension on the lower part of the side seam which would lead one to believe this is perhaps for a minuscule box pleat. Is this so, did you intend for it to be larger, as at the moment it isn't much of a box pleat.) This a small one-way pleat w/vent; since on this version there wasn't any back vent or pleat. (As well, I had always been under the assumption, likely mistakenly, this style of waistcoat had a back vent. Once more it seems all historical drawings and photos available to me show the front, but not the sides or backs. Argh. Is this something you would know?) I have found another original that has side & a back opening. No pleats etc., just a slash. So, it's really what you're reproducing, as to how you finish it. Early in the century; more full pleats w/openings. Mid century; less openings & just plain slashes & that evolved into a combination of the small pleat with or without all 3 openings. As with all styles, they come & go & then reappear in a new form. It's up to you to determine which is best for the article you're making. --------------------------------------------------- Lorina Stephens -------------------------------------- Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage, period furniture & fine hand-sewn garments ~ e-mail: lgsteph@golden.net ~ website: http://www.historicmerchants.com/fiverivers _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 18:49:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30736 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:49:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18049; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:03:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19042 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:00:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19024 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:00:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.81.205] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A5F518D30148; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:55:33 -0400 Message-ID: <003801bef98d$0b73dc80$cd51ccd1@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: <1f487142.2506db51@aol.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: victorian manners book Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:59:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 5:19 PM > > -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > > In a message dated 09/07/1999 4:37:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > vjlyons@snip.net writes: > > << n it a "wild west" bad guy questions the child with > "Would you like me to blow a hole in your head?" >> > > Of course the proper Victorian reply is: > > "Oh my goodness no! [curtsey] But thank you very much for asking." > Actually...... that's quite close to the suggested reply in the book. ;-) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 19:10:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30769 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:10:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20555; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:25:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22605 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:20:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22593 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:20:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p42.directcon.net [206.170.184.141]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA04832 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:18:58 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:18:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909080018.RAA04832@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Eleonora of Toledo/child Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 07:14 PM 09/07/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: Cynthia Virtue > > >> I thought I would try again. The child seems to be wearing a >> simple tunic over a fancier edged chemise. What does everyone think >> of that? > >I'm not so certain it's a tunic, although this is not my period. > >Next to his hanging hand, the color of the surrounding area changes. If >the kid had on a loosely fitted doublet over lighter pants, it would >explain the color change. I think it's more likely, given his apparent age, that it's a long coat-like garment. Boys were generally not breeched until five years old. For unbreeched boys, I generally go either with just a chemise, decorated or not as station requires, or with a chemise with a long coat/robe over it for more warmth or formality. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 19:14:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30786 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:14:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20912; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:28:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20548 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:09:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20536 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:08:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.66] (sdts10-43.znet.net [207.167.66.43]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id RAA12840 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:08:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <012f01bef975$7cc30cc0$80a7fea9@gunsafes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:05:57 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Children's costume Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams > http://www.southern.com/wm/paint/auth/bronzino/eleonora.jpg > This dress was a topic of conversation a couple weeks ago on the >SCA-Garb list. I asked the list what they thought of the child's >clothing at her right. I got no response. I then forwarded the message >to H-Cost. I got no response. (Probably because of my wacky email >server...) I thought I would try again. The child seems to be >wearing a simple tunic over a fancier edged chemise. What does everyone >think of that? Michelle, It is really hard to see the details of the child's costume from that portrait, but from my research on small children's clothing, it is more typical that children are wearing loose fitting robelike clothing in the 16th c. Based on some Durer and other artists drawings of the time, there are plenty of examples that show people dressed up for church, court and special occasions, while normally dressing in much more functional clothing. I believe this is true for children as well. There are a number of German 16th c examples of children in short gowns (short white chemises) with loose wrap around gowns, waffenrocks, and tunics over the top. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 19:23:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30803 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:23:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22276; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:38:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24538 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:33:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24528 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:33:25 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) id RAA12801 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909080033.RAA12801@eclipse.pacifier.com> Received: from ip99.van21.pacifier.com(216.65.138.99), claiming to be "grendal2" via SMTP by smtp.pacifier.com, id smtpdCAAbcaW2y; Tue Sep 7 17:33:20 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:37:27 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Looking For Commentary on Arnold... Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > A few weeks ago i finally saw a booklet i'd heard about. It was written by > a (former?) SCA member in the 1980's, IIRC, who criticized many of Arnold's > costume drafts. The book is based on his practical experience, he made > pieces by her directions then by his corrected method. The book includes > extensive commentary, photographs and diagrams. The title is escaping me at > the moment. > > I'd really like a copy. But it was one of those self-published, > plastic-spiral bound thingies sold at SCA events. The author lived in St. > Louis MO, i think. It's not in print. It's called The Annotated Arnold by Robert Trump, aka Robert Sartor von Paybas (RSVP). He is one of the top costumers at the St. Louis Opera. He didn't do it originally as a "criticism", so much as a way of making the book more useful. (That is until Ms. Arnold blasted him after he had sent her a courtesy copy.) As to getting a copy of it, good luck. You'll probably have to keep an eye out or be very lucky with a friend. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 19:24:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30807 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:24:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22273; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:38:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA24544 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:33:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24536 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 18:33:27 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) id RAA12812 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909080033.RAA12812@eclipse.pacifier.com> Received: from ip99.van21.pacifier.com(216.65.138.99), claiming to be "grendal2" via SMTP by smtp.pacifier.com, id smtpdBAAacaW2y; Tue Sep 7 17:33:18 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:37:27 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Looking For Commentary on Arnold... Priority: normal In-reply-to: <009f01bef953$b2da3800$f046cfcf@gia-g> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" > To: > Subject: Re: H-COST: Looking For Commentary on Arnold... > Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:06:37 -0700 > Reply-to: h-costume@indra.com > > -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" > > The Annotated Arnold, but of course can't find my copy. By (I think) > Howard Trump. > Drafting & Constructing a Simple Doublet & Trunkhose of the Spanish > Renaissance is by RW Trump. I found my copy of that one. > > Gia/Giacinta > -----Original Message----- > From: lilinah@grin.net > To: h-costume@indra.com > Date: Monday, September 06, 1999 2:57 PM > Subject: H-COST: Looking For Commentary on Arnold... > > > > > >-Poster: lilinah@grin.net > > > >A few weeks ago i finally saw a booklet i'd heard about. It was written by > >a (former?) SCA member in the 1980's, IIRC, who criticized many of Arnold's > >costume drafts. The book is based on his practical experience, he made > >pieces by her directions then by his corrected method. The book includes > >extensive commentary, photographs and diagrams. The title is escaping me at > >the moment. > > > >I'd really like a copy. But it was one of those self-published, > >plastic-spiral bound thingies sold at SCA events. The author lived in St. > >Louis MO, i think. > > > >Any hints, clues, copies for sale, possible trades? > > > >Thanks > > > >Lilinah, SCA'ly known as Anahita > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 20:16:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA30869 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:16:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27388; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:31:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA02556 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:27:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02548 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:27:13 -0600 (MDT) From: CONNECT@aol.com Received: from CONNECT@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6UJUa22962 (4227) for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:26:19 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Eleonora of Toledo To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: CONNECT@aol.com In a message dated 9/7/1999 5:07:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mandrake@mypad.com writes: << The child seems to be wearing a simple tunic over a fancier edged chemise. What does everyone think of that? >> My viewing of the visual clues leads me to conclude it is not a tunic at all. My speculation is that the child is wearing either a doublet with poofy sort of pants, or a gown just like the adult is wearing. It would depend on what sex the child is which would apply. If I'm not mistaken, this hangs in the Detroit Institute of Art, as I seem to recall seeing in on a wall there. Yours, Pattie Rayl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 20:56:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA30914 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:56:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01233; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:11:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA08753 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:09:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08745 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:09:04 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6DSRa05159 (4186) for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:08:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <394925a2.25071f1f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:08:31 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: 18thc waistcoats - Harriet's reply To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/07/1999 7:32:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lgsteph@golden.net writes: << **You could cut the pocket on a fold/top edge and then sew around the opening like a bound buttonhole or an 18th C. vest. Not as authentic, though-just a shortcut. >> If you cut the pocket on the fold, why do you then have to buttonhole stitch the opening? Can one not match up the place where the mouth should be on the folded pocket to where the pocket mouth should be on the fronts, sew them right sides together, then cut open the mouth and turn the whole to-be-folded pocket to the inside...THEN fold & stitch the pocket bag? Or have I missed something? Did they not do this in the 18th century? Is this a sewing machine technique? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 21:17:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30980 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:17:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03518; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:31:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA11868 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:28:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay4.hawaii.edu (relay4.hawaii.edu [128.171.94.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA11847 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 20:28:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uhunix1.its.hawaii.edu ([128.171.44.6]) by relay4.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <373757(1)>; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:28:36 -1000 Received: from localhost by uhunix1.its.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <135745(6)>; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:28:27 -1000 Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 16:28:20 -1000 From: X-Sender: lisaleon@uhunix1 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/Elizabethan corsets In-Reply-To: <199909071804.LAA19948@zeus.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: > I think it's very likely that Elizabethan corsets were probably along the > lines of the one in Janet Arnold: basically, a heavily boned bodice. They > are more comfortable and the look better, because the shoulder straps pull > the breasts forward instead on flattening them into the underarm, and the > full back maintains a smoother line, rather than the upper back bulge that a > strapless corset can give. This addresses the exact thing I'm currently trying to figure out. How do you keep the shoulder straps hidden when the neckline of the gown is very wide? I'm thinking about gowns such as the coral colored Tudor worn by Elizabeth when she was a teen aged princess or the one in the Pelican portrait. When the top edge of the bodice stretches almost from armpit to armpit was a strapless corset worn? In those portraits, the breasts do look more flattened than pulled forward. lisa _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 21:51:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31037 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:51:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08379; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:06:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA16813 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:03:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f52.hotmail.com [207.82.250.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA16805 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:03:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 28685 invoked by uid 0); 8 Sep 1999 03:03:24 -0000 Message-ID: <19990908030324.28684.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.120 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 07 Sep 1999 20:03:23 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.120] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 18thc waistcoats - Harriet's reply Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 20:03:23 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >-Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com > >In a message dated 09/07/1999 7:32:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >lgsteph@golden.net writes: > ><< **You could cut the pocket on > a fold/top edge and then sew around the opening like a bound buttonhole >or > an 18th C. vest. Not as authentic, though-just a shortcut. >> > >If you cut the pocket on the fold, why do you then have to buttonhole >stitch >the opening? Can one not match up the place where the mouth should be on >the >folded pocket to where the pocket mouth should be on the fronts, sew them >right sides together, then cut open the mouth and turn the whole >to-be-folded >pocket to the inside...THEN fold & stitch the pocket bag? > >Or have I missed something? Did they not do this in the 18th century? Is >this >a sewing machine technique? Now I'm getting confused. Our method, for each pocket, is to cut two half-moon-shaped pieces, but deeper than a real half-moon. Not more than about 4" deep, though, for an average waistcoat pocket. The top curve is less deep than the bottom curve, of course. Looks something like the Cheshire cat's (or Garfield's) smile, but broader. Stitch these two pieces together around the bottom curve, and you have a little bag. Now, fold the top edges away from one another, about 1/4" to 3/8" (depending on how easily your fabric ravels & how thick it is), so you have a little bag with the top edges folded outwards. Press them with your fingernails. Slit the place on the waistcoat, from the outside, where your pocket will be. It may be placed underneath an existing pocket flap, or you may sew one over it later. Now, carefully push the edges of the slit to the inside, again pressing with your fingernails to make a crease. If it's wool, you'll have to iron it or hold it carefully as you sew. But, now it is very easy to slip the little pocket bag inside this slit, and handsew with tiny whipped stitches all around, enclosing the two folded edges against one another, inside (bag) to outside (slit body shell fabric). Voila! You've made an 18th c. pocket worthy of a museum piece. This is the method we observed on two originals: one in Charleston, SC and the other in the Museum of the Connecticut Historical Society. So it may or may not have been universal... it is not exactly what we moderns think of as a "bound" pocket mouth, being that the edges are bound to each other, and not covered with a "binding". The edges of the inside pocket bag may or may not show, depending on whether you press them to the complete inside of the pocket slit, or leave some of it to the outside. One of the originals was carelessly folded along one edge, probably from having a hand put into it from time to time, so that part of the mouth hung inside (more to the center) and the ends showed about 1/4" of the pocket bag fabric, looking almost like a "bound" pocket mouth. Just my 2c worth. Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 7 22:54:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31213 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:54:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16348; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:09:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA26354 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:06:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26342 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:06:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p13.directcon.net [206.170.184.112]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA04277 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 21:05:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909080405.VAA04277@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/Elizabethan corsets Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 04:28 PM 09/07/1999 -1000, you wrote: > >-Poster: > >> I think it's very likely that Elizabethan corsets were probably along the >> lines of the one in Janet Arnold: basically, a heavily boned bodice. They >> are more comfortable and the look better, because the shoulder straps pull >> the breasts forward instead on flattening them into the underarm, and the >> full back maintains a smoother line, rather than the upper back bulge that a >> strapless corset can give. > > This addresses the exact thing I'm currently trying to figure out. >How do you keep the shoulder straps hidden when the neckline of the gown >is very wide? By cutting the corset straps the same way, and probably a fraction narrower than the strap covering them. Comparably, some bras meant for wearing with wide or plunging necklines, such as Frederick's of Hollywood's "Cadillac" bra, have the straps set to sit at the very outer edges of the shoulders: right where an armhole seam goes, as a matter of fact. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 00:11:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA31360 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 00:11:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24203; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:26:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA06361 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:22:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06341 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:22:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-69-232.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.69.232]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05828; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 22:21:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37D58FFA.32ECA2F0@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 22:21:52 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com CC: SarahToney Subject: H-COST: Re: The History of Costume References: <19990907151947.5915.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Sarah asked: > I just bought Carl Koehler (sp?)'s "History of Costume"... so far I like it, > but can someone explain to me about the diagrams? What do the numbers stand > for... I assume that they are measurements, but in what unit, etc? Please > help? They are measurements made in centimeters. (Not surprising as Koehler was German.) If you divide them by 2.5 (or multiply by 5 and divide by 2) you will get a good approximation of the measurement in inches. I've made up one of the garments this way and it worked wonderfully. Good luck, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 00:25:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA31369 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 00:25:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25023; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:40:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08046 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:36:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08036 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:36:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-86.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.86]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA05629 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 01:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990908012101.009b5300@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 01:21:01 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Videos In-Reply-To: <37D53649.50595F5D@us.oracle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Where are the shoulder straps on the Elizabethan corset? I have made >corsets like the one pictured, but always felt they were more costume >than proper clothing. Has anyone ever found documentation for a >corset/pair of bodies with no straps in the 16th-17th century timeframe? >Not too much extant, but before I condemned the picture for accuracy, I >thought to doublecheck my own knowledge base! Never. I've never seen strapless bodices either since the "corset" was essential a boned bodice for 16th century England. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 00:25:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA31373 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 00:25:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25012; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:40:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA08057 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:36:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08051 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 23:36:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-86.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.86]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA05640 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 01:36:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990908013657.009b5300@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 01:36:57 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/Elizabethan corsets In-Reply-To: References: <199909071804.LAA19948@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings > > This addresses the exact thing I'm currently trying to figure out. >How do you keep the shoulder straps hidden when the neckline of the gown >is very wide? I'm thinking about gowns such as the coral colored Tudor >worn by Elizabeth when she was a teen aged princess or the one in the >Pelican portrait. When the top edge of the bodice stretches almost from >armpit to armpit was a strapless corset worn? In those portraits, the >breasts do look more flattened than pulled forward. Actually, I seem to remember a post on H-Cost which suggested attaching the sleeve to the neckline edge of the strap thereby hiding said strap. Has anyone actually tried this? Also, with some of them I think it's a case of the stap being hidden by the billament. Besides which, there doesn't appear to be much evidence for a "corset" like garment until the second half of the 16th century. At that stage I believe they were still stiffening bodices with buckrahm. Just my two cents worth. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 07:03:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28232 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 07:03:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12120; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 06:18:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA04789 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 06:14:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04778 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 06:14:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA05039 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:14:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:14:20 -0400 (EDT) From: GreyGoose To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/Elizabethan corsets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: GreyGoose Wow! A post I can actually contribute something to . Unlurking with a vengance. I reproduced this gown for my daughter for CostumeCon (mumble- too lazy to go look it up and the ol' brain cells are pretty sluggish this am). There was absolutely no way I could have put straps on her corset. It was partially designed to overcome the difficulty of my daughter being terribly short-waisted while the portrait shows Elizabeth as being somewhat long-waisted. It also had to perform some 'flattening' to achieve the same silhouette - since she had developed more than anticipated by the time she was 14/15 (similar to Elizabeth's age at the time of the portrait - about 13). It turned out pretty nicely, even if I do say to myself, but the shoulders of the gown were held up by a combination of fortuitous fitting and force of will. Fit was everything for this gown, and straps on the corset were not a part of the plan. I believe there may be a picture of this on the web somewhere - She was with the son of a friend of mine who was dressed as Prince Edward - and they went as The Children of Henry VIII. Since my experiment held up beautifully, even under a classic teen-aged sprawl on the ground (she got tired and bored waiting for her turn to practice on the stage), I would believe that strappless corsets were 'what was done'. Respectfully Joanna Dionne ggoose@radix.net On Tue, 7 Sep 1999 lisaleon@hawaii.edu wrote: > This addresses the exact thing I'm currently trying to figure out. > How do you keep the shoulder straps hidden when the neckline of the gown > is very wide? I'm thinking about gowns such as the coral colored Tudor > worn by Elizabeth when she was a teen aged princess or the one in the > Pelican portrait. When the top edge of the bodice stretches almost from > armpit to armpit was a strapless corset worn? In those portraits, the > breasts do look more flattened than pulled forward. > > lisa > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 09:22:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28402 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:22:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24141; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:37:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26146 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:35:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26128; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:35:04 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909081435.IAA26128@net.indra.com> From: "Wilson, Brad" To: "'H-COST'" Subject: H-COST: "The Annotated Arnold" by Robert Trump Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Wilson, Brad" Does anyone know where I can get a copy of "The Annotated Arnold" by Robert Trump ? I cannot find it on amazon or Barnes & Noble.... Brad Wilson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 09:24:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28406 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:24:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24439; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:38:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26519 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:36:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26507; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:36:26 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 08:36:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909081436.IAA26507@net.indra.com> From: SAQUEEN@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Hi, All, I received a question concerning cotton or kid gloves. Susan wants them for regency period dress. Can anyone help her with where to purchase. Please email her directly at srichards@foleylaw.com. Thanks in advance for your help, Sally Queen Costume Calendar Series http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 11:28:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28536 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:28:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13200; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:43:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00461 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:39:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00455; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:39:47 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:39:47 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909081639.KAA00455@net.indra.com> From: "Wilson, Brad" To: "'H-COST'" Subject: H-COST: Creating patterns from books (Janet Arnold, etc.) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Wilson, Brad" I just thought I would send this suggestion about how I have created full size pattern easily and scaled them up. I work as a draftsman/designer, and have 10 years experience doing CAD (computer aided drafting). I just finished my first Janet Arnold doublet (I took the peascod one and trimmed the belly size down to fit my 'natural' padding). I scanned in the pattern on my scanner, which had to be scanned in two pieces since it only takes 8.5" x 14", not 11" x 17" (which is what the book is). Then, I imported the b/w drawing into AutoCAD. I then scaled up the scanned picture so that instead of it being an 11" x 17", it was now a full scale pattern in the computer. Since it also scaled the lines (turning a single line into about 6" wide), I had to use the cad program and trace over the pattern. Once that was done, I then deleted the scan (which took up a good bit of space/memory), and printed it out on a plotter that could plot 36" wide paper. For home use with any generic scanner and a normal letter size printer, I think any generic CAD program would work that could import a picture type that your scanner is capable of creating. Then you could draw a square box, like 8.5" x 11", and make a large grid of those boxes. Then, trace the pattern out, and plot it to the letter size paper and tape it together. I have done this for a cloak pattern, and it works great. Now, you could possibly take the drawing to a print/drafting company and have them print it for maybe $4-7, which gives you an exact pattern blown-up from the drawings. Just thought I would throw that idea out there and see if anyone has used this method.. Brad Wilson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 11:44:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28599 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:44:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16304; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:59:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06153 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:56:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx2.io.com (IDENT:root@mx2.io.com [199.170.88.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06122 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:56:56 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by mx2.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA16600; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:56:36 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA31216; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:56:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:56:34 -0500 (CDT) To: "'H-COST'" cc: SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU Subject: Re: H-COST: Creating patterns from books (Janet Arnold, etc.) In-Reply-To: <199909081639.KAA00455@net.indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com you are great! this is what I have been playing with when New comers arrive at my door step and need patterns to go home with them, but I hand draw them from a projected image using a flash light and mirrors, (campfire girl trick). It is not the *exact* pattern that is in the book cause they want a different sleeve or neck like so it is never the same twice. That and my hand is not as steady as it used to me. :) Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Wilson, Brad wrote: > Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:39:47 -0600 (MDT) > From: "Wilson, Brad" > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: 'H-COST' > Subject: H-COST: Creating patterns from books (Janet Arnold, etc.) > > > -Poster: "Wilson, Brad" > > > I just thought I would send this suggestion about how I have created full > size pattern easily and scaled them up. I work as a draftsman/designer, and > have 10 years experience doing CAD (computer aided drafting). I just > finished my first Janet Arnold doublet (I took the peascod one and trimmed > the belly size down to fit my 'natural' padding). I scanned in the pattern > on my scanner, which had to be scanned in two pieces since it only takes > 8.5" x 14", not 11" x 17" (which is what the book is). Then, I imported the > b/w drawing into AutoCAD. I then scaled up the scanned picture so that > instead of it being an 11" x 17", it was now a full scale pattern in the > computer. Since it also scaled the lines (turning a single line into about > 6" wide), I had to use the cad program and trace over the pattern. Once that > was done, I then deleted the scan (which took up a good bit of > space/memory), and printed it out on a plotter that could plot 36" wide > paper. > > For home use with any generic scanner and a normal letter size printer, I > think any generic CAD program would work that could import a picture type > that your scanner is capable of creating. Then you could draw a square box, > like 8.5" x 11", and make a large grid of those boxes. Then, trace the > pattern out, and plot it to the letter size paper and tape it together. I > have done this for a cloak pattern, and it works great. Now, you could > possibly take the drawing to a print/drafting company and have them print it > for maybe $4-7, which gives you an exact pattern blown-up from the drawings. > > Just thought I would throw that idea out there and see if anyone has used > this method.. > > Brad Wilson > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 11:44:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28603 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:44:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16390; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:59:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06416 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:57:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06400 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:57:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p42.directcon.net [206.170.184.91]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA29589 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 09:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909081656.JAA29589@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: H-Cost: Looking for Wolf Dress Form Co Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Does anyone have a phone number for the sales department of the Wolf dress form company? Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 11:57:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28614 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:57:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18680; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:12:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11354 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:09:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11336 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:09:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p34.directcon.net [206.170.184.83]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA01065 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:08:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909081708.KAA01065@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Creating patterns from books (Janet Arnold, etc.) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson t I hand >draw them from a projected image using a flash light and mirrors, >(campfire girl trick). Oooh, please explain how to do this! Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 12:05:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28628 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:05:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20438; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:20:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15311 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:18:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15282 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:18:38 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10201 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:18:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA32388 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:18:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:18:37 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Creating patterns from books (Janet Arnold, etc.) In-Reply-To: <199909081708.KAA01065@zeus.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com You get a piece of glass, lay the think you want projected on it and turn on the light source underneath it. Place a mirror at an angle on top of the whole thing and just move it until it is the size you want it to be. We did this in campfire to project ghosts on the wall during those stormy story times in the great hall....;) Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Margo Anderson wrote: > Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:08:34 -0700 (PDT) > From: Margo Anderson > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Creating patterns from books (Janet Arnold, etc.) > > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > t I hand > >draw them from a projected image using a flash light and mirrors, > >(campfire girl trick). > > Oooh, please explain how to do this! > > Margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 12:24:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28677 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:24:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23016; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:39:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21042 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:37:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21030 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:37:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA13768 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:37:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-37.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.37]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA07801 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:37:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001601befa21$b6a230e0$ec96fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "costume list" Subject: H-COST: Re: Pattern Area URL Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:43:49 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >~Kyna >"The Pattern Person" Please email me with the addy for the pattern site. I don't seem to have it anymore. I sent email and all I get back is the password, etc. I have tried emailing again, and I got the same thing: password, etc. It doesn't help to have a password for somewhere you don't know how to get to. Michelle Sorry, now back to H-costume..... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 12:28:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28684 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:28:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23645; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:43:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21991 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:40:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21980 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:40:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA16136; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:40:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-37.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.37]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA10645; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:40:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002001befa22$38819100$ec96fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "costume list" , Subject: H-COST: email problems Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 10:47:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001D_01BEF9E7.8B26F3E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BEF9E7.8B26F3E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I realize that several people have had problems sending me mail. I = am looking for a better server. In the meantime, I have opened a = temporary account. If mail bounces, please try sending it to=20 Mandrake@Ireland.com=20 =20 I will do my best to straighten this out (hopefully, before I get = booted from the list for bounced mail.) Sorry for all the trouble. Michelle ------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BEF9E7.8B26F3E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
   I realize that several = people have=20 had problems sending me mail.  I am looking for a better = server.  In=20 the meantime, I have opened a temporary account.  If mail bounces, = please=20 try sending it to
   Mandrake@Ireland.com =
  
    I will do my best = to=20 straighten this out (hopefully, before I get booted from the list for = bounced=20 mail.)   Sorry for all the trouble.
   = Michelle
------=_NextPart_000_001D_01BEF9E7.8B26F3E0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 12:53:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28801 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:53:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27832; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:08:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28137 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:06:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28124 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:06:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990908180634.UMLB9848.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a> for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 11:06:34 -0700 Message-ID: <023c01befa22$e27b0e20$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: References: <001601befa21$b6a230e0$ec96fea9@gunsafes> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Pattern Area URL Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:52:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" To Michelle and anyone that is interested: ::grins:: ya...I realized after your emails that if it's going to autorespond that it should be with the User Name, Password *AND* the URL! I've changed it so that it does just that. URL to the Pattern Area: http://UnicornCastle.net/wardrobe/patterns/index.html The password agreement can be received by sending email to: password@unicorncastle.net The message board is fully functional and in an non-password protected area for convenience: http://UnicornCastle.net/board/index.html (FYI you can type these URLs in any way you want with or without the "www" and with or with out the Capitol Letters in the domain name.) ~Kyna Grannd "The Pattern Person" pattern_person@unicorncastle.net ---- Kyna Grannd Grannd Garb Historic Clothing, Supplies and Accessories http://GranndGarb.com ICQ#12859312 http://TheMarketSquare.com COMING SOON!! Ask for details about your selling space now. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michelle To: costume list Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 1:43 PM Subject: H-COST: Re: Pattern Area URL > > -Poster: "Michelle" > > > >~Kyna > >"The Pattern Person" > Please email me with the addy for the pattern site. I don't seem to > have it anymore. I sent email and all I get back is the password, etc. I > have tried emailing again, and I got the same thing: password, etc. It > doesn't help to have a password for somewhere you don't know how to get to. > Michelle > Sorry, now back to H-costume..... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 13:58:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29058 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:58:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07147; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12784 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:10:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12772 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p29.directcon.net [206.170.184.128]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA15426 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 12:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909081908.MAA15426@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST:How many list members? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I'm doing some market research. Can someone tell me how many members this list has? Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 14:47:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29209 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:47:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17645; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:01:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24934 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:58:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f221.hotmail.com [207.82.251.112]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA24918 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:58:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 19363 invoked by uid 0); 8 Sep 1999 19:58:12 -0000 Message-ID: <19990908195812.19362.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 12.21.110.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 12:58:12 PDT X-Originating-IP: [12.21.110.240] From: "Karie Mitchell" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Eleonora of Toledo/child Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 12:58:12 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" >>I thought I would try again. The child seems to be wearing a >>simple tunic over a fancier edged chemise. What does everyone think of >>that? >I'm not so certain it's a tunic, although this is not my period. Hello, Not that this is the last word by any means, but I recall an article from TI regarding the tradition of having children of both sexes wear a long tunic/dress until they were more "in control" of their bodily functions. (Sort of the 'anti-diaper') When a boy child could be taught control, he was given his first pair of pants. So it would seem to me, by virtue of the age of the child in the painting, that he would be wearing a long tunic or dress. Allessandre Desiderio Ansteorra "Those who give up a little liberty for safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Ben Franklin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 15:35:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29249 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:35:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26614; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:50:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06392 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:47:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06386 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:47:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11OodE-000DBk-0C for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:47:52 +0000 Message-ID: <238pSDA8rs13Iwwr@montgomerie.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:45:48 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Creating patterns from books (Janet Arnold, etc.) In-Reply-To: <199909081639.KAA00455@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie My husband has used a similar method (though perhaps less expertly) to scale up the patterns for medieval shoes in the Museum of London book. He scales it up to somewhere near full size, and then cuts it out and adjusts the fine detail on his foot, first with the paper and then heavy fabric, before going into leather. Jean In message <199909081639.KAA00455@net.indra.com>, "Wilson, Brad" writes > >-Poster: "Wilson, Brad" > > >I just thought I would send this suggestion about how I have created full >size pattern easily and scaled them up. I work as a draftsman/designer, and >have 10 years experience doing CAD (computer aided drafting). I just >finished my first Janet Arnold doublet (I took the peascod one and trimmed >the belly size down to fit my 'natural' padding). I scanned in the pattern >on my scanner, which had to be scanned in two pieces since it only takes >8.5" x 14", not 11" x 17" (which is what the book is). Then, I imported the >b/w drawing into AutoCAD. I then scaled up the scanned picture so that >instead of it being an 11" x 17", it was now a full scale pattern in the >computer. Since it also scaled the lines (turning a single line into about >6" wide), I had to use the cad program and trace over the pattern. Once that >was done, I then deleted the scan (which took up a good bit of >space/memory), and printed it out on a plotter that could plot 36" wide >paper. > >For home use with any generic scanner and a normal letter size printer, I >think any generic CAD program would work that could import a picture type >that your scanner is capable of creating. Then you could draw a square box, >like 8.5" x 11", and make a large grid of those boxes. Then, trace the >pattern out, and plot it to the letter size paper and tape it together. I >have done this for a cloak pattern, and it works great. Now, you could >possibly take the drawing to a print/drafting company and have them print it >for maybe $4-7, which gives you an exact pattern blown-up from the drawings. > >Just thought I would throw that idea out there and see if anyone has used >this method.. > >Brad Wilson > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 15:43:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29267 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:43:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27870; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:58:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08480 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:56:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08474; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:56:07 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:56:07 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear Message-Id: <199909082056.OAA08474@net.indra.com> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Lear Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29273 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:45:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28198; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:59:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08855 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:57:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08839; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:57:49 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:57:49 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909082057.OAA08839@net.indra.com> From: "Wilson, Brad" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Creating patterns from books (Janet Arnold, etc.) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Wilson, Brad" > you are great! this is what I have been playing with when New comers > arrive at my door step and need patterns to go home with them, but I hand Another option is if you know a relative who has scanner/computer/plotter access, they may be able to do it for you. Be warned, when I plotted out the venetian pattern for the peascod belly out of Janet Arnold's book, it was a llloooonnggg plot! I did try to arrange the pieces to make the most use of the paper. It took about 4-5 hours of time to trace it out, but it came our great... What you can do is plot out the large pattern, keep track of what you did to 'make it fit' you, then go back in and change the cad drawing to reflect the changes. Then to scale a drawing up, no matter what size, just put the new drawing over the old one's pieces and 'adjust it' till it's about the right size. I haven't tried that one yet, but it sounds like a good plan. Brad Wilson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 16:07:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29308 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:07:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01483; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:23:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14559 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:20:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14526 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:20:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-69-250.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.69.250]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21688; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:20:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37D67194.3424B344@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 14:24:22 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com CC: SarahToney Subject: H-COST: Re: The History of Costume References: <19990907151947.5915.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> <37D58FFA.32ECA2F0@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Sarah asked about the numbers in Carl Kohler's "History of Costume". I had written: > They are measurements made in centimeters. If you divide them by 2.5 > (or multiply by 5 and divide by 2) you will get a good approximation > of the measurement in inches. Obviously, you should multiply by 2 and divide by 5. (I can do calculus and physics...it's the simple stuff that trips me up.) Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 16:09:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29312 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:09:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01692; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:24:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14880 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:22:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14870 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 15:22:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p6.directcon.net [206.170.184.55]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00818 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 14:20:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909082120.OAA00818@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: RE: H-COST: Creating patterns from books (Janet Arnold, etc.) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Check out wildginger.com for their "symmetry" pattern drafting software package....it was designed by theatrcial costumers. Part of their copy says: "Theatrical costumers will be interested in Symmetry's ability to work with 1/8th scale patterns. Eighth scale patterns may be digitized, saved in Symmetry, and scaled up to full size instantly." Sounds to me as if they wrote it specifically for working with Janet Arnold's books. Now, if I can only figure out a way to afford it... Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 18:03:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29704 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:03:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17529; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:18:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08653 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:10:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay4.hawaii.edu (relay4.hawaii.edu [128.171.94.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA08619 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uhunix1.its.hawaii.edu ([128.171.44.6]) by relay4.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <373949(9)>; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:10:41 -1000 Received: from localhost by uhunix1.its.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <135742(6)>; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:10:23 -1000 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 13:10:18 -1000 From: lisaleon@hawaii.edu X-Sender: lisaleon@uhunix1 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/Elizabethan corsets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lisaleon@hawaii.edu On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, GreyGoose wrote: > > was absolutely no way I could have put straps on her corset. It was > partially designed to overcome the difficulty of my daughter being > terribly short-waisted while the portrait shows Elizabeth as being somewhat > long-waisted. It also had to perform some 'flattening' to achieve the > same silhouette - since she had developed more than anticipated by the This is my problem too, although I'm small busted and don't need much flattening. However, the corset dropped my waistline by more than an inch which helped. > the shoulders of the gown were held up by a combination of fortuitous > fitting and force of will. Fit was everything for this gown, and straps on > the corset were not a part of the plan. The shoulders of my gown stay on and like you, it was a matter of the bodice fitting well. I don't think there's any way I could have gotten corset straps under there either, as the shoulder straps and sleeve heads were right at the ends of my shoulders. I'm going to try and do something along the lines of the gown in QE's Pelican portrait next and would like to try a corset with straps, as I need more of my body parts pulled to the front rather than flattened to the sides. It appears that the sleeve heads are also right at the end of the shoulders so I'm wondering how I'm going to hide the straps. Would a possible method be to have the backs of the straps start closer to the center back than usual and have them sort of roll out and around (rather than right over the top) of the shoulder? Or maybe on my figure it wouldn't really make much difference? And as an aside, it was somewhat flattering to see an altered version of my .sig castle show up in someone else's .sig line recently :) Or if it's just an incredible coincidence, great minds must think alike! Lisa Leong * <| lisaleon@hawaii.edu .^. * * .=.=.=. * * <| ^V V V^ <| \^ ^ ^/ | | \^ ^ ^/ | |^^^^| |^^^^| | | [] [] [] | | ":":":":...:":":":" | ~~~|________[oIo]________|~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 18:21:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29725 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:21:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20419; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:36:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12820 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:34:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA12808 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:34:06 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990908233456.19196.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.254.160.206] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 16:34:56 PDT Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:34:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney WoW! Okay, all you out there that aren't talking need to speak up more! ;-) It seems like it is always the same people (myself included)... not that this is a bad thing since if we weren't talking there wouldn't be a reason for this, huh? *grin* Sarah --- Elizabeth Lear wrote: > > -Poster: Elizabeth Lear > > > how many members this > > 630 > ...eliz, list admin > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 18:26:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29735 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:26:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21275; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:42:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13846 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:40:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13827 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:40:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p6.directcon.net [206.170.184.55]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA17290 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 16:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909082338.QAA17290@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/Elizabethan corsets Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >> the shoulders of the gown were held up by a combination of fortuitous >> fitting and force of will. Fit was everything for this gown, and straps on >> the corset were not a part of the plan. > > The shoulders of my gown stay on and like you, it was a matter of >the bodice fitting well. I don't think there's any way I could have >gotten corset straps under there either, as the shoulder straps and sleeve >heads were right at the ends of my shoulders. I don't understand. If you could make the gown's shoulder straps stay up, why not a corset's straps as well, especially considering that they pinned so many garments? Pin the two layes togehter and they'll behave as one. > I'm going to try and do something along the lines of the gown in >QE's Pelican portrait next and would like to try a corset with straps, as >I need more of my body parts pulled to the front rather than flattened to >the sides. It appears that the sleeve heads are also right at the end of >the shoulders so I'm wondering how I'm going to hide the straps. Would a >possible method be to have the backs of the straps start closer to the >center back than usual and have them sort of roll out and around (rather >than right over the top) of the shoulder? Some Victorian corset straps did just this, for wear with very wide evening necklines. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 18:41:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29756 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:41:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23205; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:56:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16334 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:54:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop2.radix.net (pop2.radix.net [207.192.128.48]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16324 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:54:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ggoose (p35.a1.du.radix.net [207.192.129.35]) by pop2.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA07180 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:54:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990908194513.00a47a30@saltmine.radix.net> X-Sender: ggoose@saltmine.radix.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 19:53:14 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: dionne Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/Elizabethan corsets In-Reply-To: <199909082338.QAA17290@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: dionne > >I don't understand. If you could make the gown's shoulder straps stay up, >why not a corset's straps as well, especially considering that they pinned >so many garments? Pin the two layes togehter and they'll behave as one. > Well - since the entire gown didn't *need* the corset to have straps to fit and reproduce the appearance of the portrait, and they would have added extra bulk that would have been even more uncomfortable (I was dressing a 14 year old after all) I saw no reason to add them in. Also, the strapless version allowed more freedom of movement - the corset stayed where it was around her torso, when straps would have made it ride up as she moved around (quite vigorously too). It has been a couple of years since I did the research for this - my main period is Viking but the girl just looked so *right* for the part. But what I recall off the top of my head is various bodies without straps for that time period. Of course, with a memory like a steel sieve, I may be mistaken. Joanna Dionne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 19:03:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29807 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:03:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25374; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:18:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19810 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:16:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19791 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:16:01 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6MUH02bvZt (3997) for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:15:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2a868db1.2508561c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:15:24 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/Elizabethan & 18th century corsets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com All this reminds me of those [rare] gowns from about mid 18th century ....found only in France I think.... that are all but off the shoulder. Where do the corset straps go for these lovelies? Of course with straps that tie to the bodies at either front or back, it's easy to see how one could get rid of them or tuck them away from sight. Perhaps Elizabethan women did the same for those special gowns of theirs. Still some straps can get very narrow...3/4 of an inch. And the tying of them makes them adjustable for the longer off the shoulder measurement. BTW...if you want to see one, both Glenn Close & Swoozie Kurtz have one of these off the shoulder gowns in Dangerous Liaisons. The only ones I've ever seen on a moving, breathing person. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 19:10:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29817 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:10:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26110; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:25:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA20868 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:22:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA20859 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:22:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-61-222.s222.tnt1.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.61.222]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA12880 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:22:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <010201befa59$19076160$de3daccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <19990908233456.19196.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:20:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Are our lurkers introverts???? >From the webpage article, Revenge of the Introverts : "Yet, silent as they may be, introverts can have a lot to say given the right forum. They've found that the internet can help them communicate in their preferred manner; a written dialogue with time to pause for thought and analysis. " Alright, introverts, stop pausing, and start talking. Let's make Thursday, 9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day. We stop talking for ONE day, and let the introverts speak! We are listening now, its your forum! Later... Penny (One of the Extros, along with Margo, Charlene , R.L. Shep, Sally, Sarah, Albert Cat, Jennie, Drea, Fran, gee, if I left any of you extros out, I'm sorry. This is the last you will hear from me until 9/10/99) http://www.costumegallery.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Sarah Toney To: Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 7:34 PM Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? > > -Poster: Sarah Toney > > WoW! Okay, all you out there that aren't talking need > to speak up more! ;-) It seems like it is always the > same people (myself included)... not that this is a > bad thing since if we weren't talking there wouldn't > be a reason for this, huh? > > *grin* > > Sarah > > > --- Elizabeth Lear wrote: > > > > -Poster: Elizabeth Lear > > > > > > > how many members this > > > > > 630 > > ...eliz, list admin > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > > majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 19:23:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29840 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:23:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27950; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:38:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22998 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:36:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22986 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:36:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p35.directcon.net [206.170.184.84]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA24146 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:34:48 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:34:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909090034.RAA24146@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >Alright, introverts, stop pausing, and start talking. Let's make Thursday, >9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day. We stop talking for ONE day, and let the >introverts speak! We are listening now, its your forum! > >Later... Penny (One of the Extros, along with Margo, Charlene , >R.L. Shep, Sally, Sarah, Albert Cat, Jennie, Drea, Fran, gee, if I left any >of you extros out, I'm sorry. This is the last you will hear from me until >9/10/99) I'm in...but it's going to be HARD and I can't go cold turkey. I'll sign off at midnight, okay? Margo > "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 19:38:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29876 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:38:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29825; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:53:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA25501 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:51:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from exchange.acer.edu.au (exchange.acer.edu.au [203.2.133.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25493 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:51:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by exchange.acer.edu.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:47:11 +1000 Message-ID: From: Harvey Georgia To: "'H-costume'" Subject: H-COST: OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep! Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:47:11 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Harvey Georgia meep. No, really. I usually only post when I have something *specific* to say. That, or time to say it. Georgia back to mostly lurking. when I start making my vict. corset, you'll hear from me all right. actually... on that note.... I was planning to buy the pattern that Laughing Moon sell. Does anyone have experience with this? http:www.lafnmoon.com (I think... please correct if I'm wrong) G _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 19:50:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29891 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:50:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01209; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:05:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27266 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:03:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27258 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:03:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.126]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA06296 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:03:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007c01befa5f$9fdab420$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:06:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" Hey! I'm lurking and learning. I thought I was doing pretty well as I've only been dabbling in medieval/ren costuming for a couple years, and SCA for even less time, until I got to this list and found out how much I do not know. So I read and learn (and buy the recommended books, of course!) -----Original Message----- From: Penny Ladnier To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 8:24 PM Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? > >-Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > >Are our lurkers introverts???? > >From the webpage article, Revenge of the Introverts >: >"Yet, silent as they may be, introverts can have a lot to say given the >right forum. They've found that the internet can help them communicate in >their preferred manner; a written dialogue with time to pause for thought >and analysis. " > >Alright, introverts, stop pausing, and start talking. Let's make Thursday, >9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day. We stop talking for ONE day, and let the >introverts speak! We are listening now, its your forum! > >Later... Penny (One of the Extros, along with Margo, Charlene , >R.L. Shep, Sally, Sarah, Albert Cat, Jennie, Drea, Fran, gee, if I left any >of you extros out, I'm sorry. This is the last you will hear from me until >9/10/99) >http://www.costumegallery.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Sarah Toney >To: >Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 7:34 PM >Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? > > >> >> -Poster: Sarah Toney >> >> WoW! Okay, all you out there that aren't talking need >> to speak up more! ;-) It seems like it is always the >> same people (myself included)... not that this is a >> bad thing since if we weren't talking there wouldn't >> be a reason for this, huh? >> >> *grin* >> >> Sarah >> >> >> --- Elizabeth Lear wrote: >> > >> > -Poster: Elizabeth Lear >> > >> > >> > > > how many members this >> > > > >> > 630 >> > ...eliz, list admin >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ >> > To leave this mailing list, send mail to >> > majordomo@indra.com >> > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >> > >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 19:52:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29895 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:52:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01695; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27525 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:05:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27520 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:05:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.126]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA07769 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:05:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008101befa5f$f5f40640$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep! Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:09:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" >actually... on that note.... I was planning to buy the pattern that Laughing >Moon sell. Does anyone have experience with this? I just bought the pattern and am planning on getting around to it soon. Does anyone have a good source for the busk closure pictured on the pattern envelope? Greenberg and Hammer show one in their catalog, but say they have only 4 hooks. The one pictured has at least 6 (pattern is not in front of me at the moment). _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 20:06:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29909 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:06:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03174; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:21:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA29650 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:19:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f201.hotmail.com [207.82.251.92]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA29633 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:19:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 75158 invoked by uid 0); 9 Sep 1999 01:18:53 -0000 Message-ID: <19990909011853.75157.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.40.87 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:18:52 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.40.87] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Rule of Toyota; Ya want, ya get/Re: H-COST:How many list members? Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 18:18:52 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Hi I just joined this list day before yesterday. Haven't really had a chance to get acclimated yet but just wanted to let you know I'm here. Have some good news on the costume book front. Amazon.com now has the new Dover editions of Herbert Norris' Costume and Fashion series. Ancient Europe, vol 1, and the last to be reprinted will be available in October. Now back to lurking, until I can think of something else to say. :-) Lonna (SKA, Enyd) ______________________________________________________________________ >From: "Penny Ladnier" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: >Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? >Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:20:15 -0400 > > >-Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > >Are our lurkers introverts???? > >From the webpage article, Revenge of the Introverts >: >"Yet, silent as they may be, introverts can have a lot to say given the >right forum. They've found that the internet can help them communicate in >their preferred manner; a written dialogue with time to pause for thought >and analysis. " > >Alright, introverts, stop pausing, and start talking. Let's make Thursday, >9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day. We stop talking for ONE day, and let the >introverts speak! We are listening now, its your forum! > >Later... Penny (One of the Extros, along with Margo, Charlene you>, >R.L. Shep, Sally, Sarah, Albert Cat, Jennie, Drea, Fran, gee, if I left any >of you extros out, I'm sorry. This is the last you will hear from me until >9/10/99) >http://www.costumegallery.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Sarah Toney >To: >Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 7:34 PM >Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? > > > > > > -Poster: Sarah Toney > > > > WoW! Okay, all you out there that aren't talking need > > to speak up more! ;-) It seems like it is always the > > same people (myself included)... not that this is a > > bad thing since if we weren't talking there wouldn't > > be a reason for this, huh? > > > > *grin* > > > > Sarah > > > > > > --- Elizabeth Lear wrote: > > > > > > -Poster: Elizabeth Lear > > > > > > > > > > > how many members this > > > > > > > > 630 > > > ...eliz, list admin > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > > > majordomo@indra.com > > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 20:06:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29913 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:06:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03233; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:22:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA29742 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:20:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29736 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:20:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gia-g (dialup320.serv.net [207.207.70.213]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA00532 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005601befa61$7d2c9cc0$d546cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 18:17:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" What about us semi-introverts? I really *like* just lurking and getting all the great emails from you guys...I've learned *so* much! My posting are mostly just questions. *sigh* Gia/Giacinta -----Original Message----- From: Penny Ladnier To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 5:27 PM Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? > >-Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > >Are our lurkers introverts???? > >>From the webpage article, Revenge of the Introverts >: >"Yet, silent as they may be, introverts can have a lot to say given the >right forum. They've found that the internet can help them communicate in >their preferred manner; a written dialogue with time to pause for thought >and analysis. " > >Alright, introverts, stop pausing, and start talking. Let's make Thursday, >9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day. We stop talking for ONE day, and let the >introverts speak! We are listening now, its your forum! > >Later... Penny (One of the Extros, along with Margo, Charlene , >R.L. Shep, Sally, Sarah, Albert Cat, Jennie, Drea, Fran, gee, if I left any >of you extros out, I'm sorry. This is the last you will hear from me until >9/10/99) >http://www.costumegallery.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Sarah Toney >To: >Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 7:34 PM >Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? > > >> >> -Poster: Sarah Toney >> >> WoW! Okay, all you out there that aren't talking need >> to speak up more! ;-) It seems like it is always the >> same people (myself included)... not that this is a >> bad thing since if we weren't talking there wouldn't >> be a reason for this, huh? >> >> *grin* >> >> Sarah >> >> >> --- Elizabeth Lear wrote: >> > >> > -Poster: Elizabeth Lear >> > >> > >> > > > how many members this >> > > > >> > 630 >> > ...eliz, list admin >> > >> > >> > >> _________________________________________________________________ >> > To leave this mailing list, send mail to >> > majordomo@indra.com >> > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >> > >> >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 20:15:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29928 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:15:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03935; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:30:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00976 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:27:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00970 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:27:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Jujenkai@aol.com Received: from Jujenkai@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6HZEMjUe6_ (3971) for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:27:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4f7772b.250866f4@aol.com> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:27:16 EDT Subject: H-COST: questions for a friend To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jujenkai@aol.com Hello, I am trying to help a friend of mine document an article of clothing and I was wondering if anyone could help me. I am needing patterns, pictures, documentation, and sources for the following 14th to 16th century garb that was worn in moorish spain and is from Morocco, Syria, Saudi Arabia. Some of these words are interchangeable: Merodan, Woniya, Shillahat, Baalto, gumbaz, zibun, sirwaal, syah, kaftan, thawb, jubba, furmilaaya, saaya, damir, cote, also formerly called The al ardah al nejdiah. if someone could help me it would be a BIG help Respectfully, Brooks D. Barnes _____________________________________________________________________ Brooks D. Barnes 506 Greensboro Street Starkville, Ms 39759 U.S.A. Tel (662) 323-5799 e-mail jujenkai@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 20:41:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29960 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:41:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06915; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:56:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04782 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:54:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04775 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:54:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA09223 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002c01befa66$7a41e6a0$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/Elizabethan corsets Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:56:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! > But what I recall off the top of my head is >various bodies without straps for that time period. Of course, with a >memory like a steel sieve, I may be mistaken. All the bodies I've seen have straps (of course, I haven't seen all the extant garments...and none of them were Tudor). Since almost by definition "a pair of bodies" implies that both "bodice" and "corset" are cut on similar lines, can we postulate a strapless bodice for the Tudor period to correlate with a strapless "corset"? I'm not sure myself. I'm guessing the straps are there; they're just tiny like those on the outer bodice. And I'm betting they fit very snugly, using the bias properties; the same thing goes for the bodice itself--otherwise, you'd have the things drooping off one's shoulders. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 21:00:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29988 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:00:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09124; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:15:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07562 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:13:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA07557 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:13:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990909021409.29925.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.254.160.27] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 19:14:09 PDT Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:14:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I wasn't trying to be critical... it just hit me as funny that I was under the impression that there were 40 of us or so on the list... ;-) Actually, most lists are like this... and I tend to "lurk" on most of them.. . just not this one for some reason. ;-) Sarah --- Megan McHugh wrote: > > -Poster: "Megan McHugh" > > Hey! I'm lurking and learning. I thought I was > doing pretty well as I've > only been dabbling in medieval/ren costuming for a > couple years, and SCA for > even less time, until I got to this list and found > out how much I do not > know. So I read and learn (and buy the recommended > books, of course!) > -----Original Message----- > From: Penny Ladnier > > To: h-costume@indra.com > Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 8:24 PM > Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? > > > > > >-Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > > > > >Are our lurkers introverts???? > > > >From the webpage article, Revenge of the Introverts > >: > >"Yet, silent as they may be, introverts can have a > lot to say given the > >right forum. They've found that the internet can > help them communicate in > >their preferred manner; a written dialogue with > time to pause for thought > >and analysis. " > > > >Alright, introverts, stop pausing, and start > talking. Let's make Thursday, > >9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day. We stop talking > for ONE day, and let the > >introverts speak! We are listening now, its your > forum! > > > >Later... Penny (One of the Extros, along with > Margo, Charlene you>, > >R.L. Shep, Sally, Sarah, Albert Cat, Jennie, Drea, > Fran, gee, if I left any > >of you extros out, I'm sorry. This is the last you > will hear from me until > >9/10/99) > >http://www.costumegallery.com > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Sarah Toney > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 7:34 PM > >Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? > > > > > >> > >> -Poster: Sarah Toney > >> > >> WoW! Okay, all you out there that aren't talking > need > >> to speak up more! ;-) It seems like it is always > the > >> same people (myself included)... not that this is > a > >> bad thing since if we weren't talking there > wouldn't > >> be a reason for this, huh? > >> > >> *grin* > >> > >> Sarah > >> > >> > >> --- Elizabeth Lear wrote: > >> > > >> > -Poster: Elizabeth Lear > >> > > >> > > >> > tell me > >> > how many members this > >> > >> > > >> > 630 > >> > ...eliz, list admin > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _________________________________________________________________ > >> > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > >> > majordomo@indra.com > >> > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > >> > > >> > >> > __________________________________________________ > >> Do You Yahoo!? > >> Bid and sell for free at > http://auctions.yahoo.com > >> > _________________________________________________________________ > >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 21:19:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30010 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:19:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11175; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:34:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA09979 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:32:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09967 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:31:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id MAA31846 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:01:35 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA04596; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:09:19 +0930 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:09:12 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? In-Reply-To: <010201befa59$19076160$de3daccf@e4c2n6> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Penny Ladnier wrote: > > Alright, introverts, stop pausing, and start talking. Let's make Thursday, > 9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day. We stop talking for ONE day, and let the > introverts speak! We are listening now, its your forum! > > Later... Penny (One of the Extros, along with Margo, Charlene , > R.L. Shep, Sally, Sarah, Albert Cat, Jennie, Drea, Fran, gee, if I left any > of you extros out, I'm sorry. This is the last you will hear from me until > 9/10/99) But the 9/10 is halfway over here. Oh you mean the 10/9...whoops. *grin* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 21:21:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30016 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:21:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11447; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:36:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA10448 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:34:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10436 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:34:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.176] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Ou2W-0000Ww-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:34:20 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 19:32:31 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? In-Reply-To: <19990909021409.29925.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" As I am not at the level of expertise most others seem to be. I read, I try, I learn...I lurk...thus, am I ... Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 22:05:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30088 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:05:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16634; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:21:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA17494 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:19:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay4.hawaii.edu (relay4.hawaii.edu [128.171.94.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA17483 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uhunix1.its.hawaii.edu ([128.171.44.6]) by relay4.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <373621(2)>; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:18:53 -1000 Received: from localhost by uhunix1.its.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <135745(4)>; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:18:47 -1000 Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:18:45 -1000 From: X-Sender: lisaleon@uhunix1 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/Elizabethan corsets In-Reply-To: <199909082338.QAA17290@zeus.directcon.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: > I don't understand. If you could make the gown's shoulder straps stay up, > why not a corset's straps as well, especially considering that they pinned > so many garments? Pin the two layes togehter and they'll behave as one. Err, I don't quite know how to explain this but I'll give it a try. The gown wasn't being held up by the straps. The bust and torso areas fit well enough to hold the bodice up and the neckline in the back is high enough that the shoulders won't fall. The straps lie comfortably on my shoulders but if I tilt one down the strap will stay up without my shoulder touching it. So I could probably make a corset where the straps could be pinned and hidden...but I don't know if the straps would actually be supporting anything. I'll fiddle with the one I have and see if I can make something work. You've given me some ideas. Thanks! Lisa Leong * <| lisaleon@hawaii.edu .^. * * .=.=.=. * * <| ^V V V^ <| \^ ^ ^/ | | \^ ^ ^/ | |^^^^| |^^^^| | | [] [] [] | | ":":":":...:":":":" | ~~~|________[oIo]________|~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 22:34:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30137 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:34:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18906; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:49:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA21554 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:47:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21544 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:47:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990909034710.THJO22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:47:10 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 20:50:35 -0700 Subject: H-COST: 9/9/99 From: "R.L. Shep" To: "h-costume" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990909034710.THJO22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" Let the lurkers begin...... Frankly I think I lurk a lot more than I speak, but obviously Penny does not think so..... so there! ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 22:41:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30151 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:41:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA19944; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:57:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22530 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:54:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22524 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:54:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.161.142]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA17506 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:54:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37D7300B.262F371F@mediaone.net> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 23:56:59 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Laughing Moon Corset References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas This was the pattern We used at Costume College July '98. Also at U.S. Institute of Theatre Technology's Convention in Long Beach, CA earlier that summer. Both teachers thought it was the best for fitting most people. I had major surgery after and found it didn't fit me as well this year when we did "cuirasse bodice" over it. I never got it completely made but it has a busk and boning channels. Being tall I had to get a longer busk and, if I remember correctly, I found one at Costume College at either "Enhancements" booth or "Alteryears", most probably the former. They have a catalog but I think it's mostly for period hat supplies. Janice -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 22:51:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30165 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:51:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20874; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:07:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA23825 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:04:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f260.hotmail.com [207.82.251.151]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA23810 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:04:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 85514 invoked by uid 0); 9 Sep 1999 04:04:09 -0000 Message-ID: <19990909040409.85513.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.12.82.76 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 08 Sep 1999 21:04:08 PDT X-Originating-IP: [206.12.82.76] From: "kris .." To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep! Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 21:04:08 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "kris .." >-Poster: "Megan McHugh" > > >actually... on that note.... I was planning to buy the pattern that >Laughing > >Moon sell. Does anyone have experience with this? > > >I just bought the pattern and am planning on getting around to it soon. >Does anyone have a good source for the busk closure pictured on the pattern >envelope? Greenberg and Hammer show one in their catalog, but say they >have >only 4 hooks. The one pictured has at least 6 (pattern is not in front of >me at the moment). http://farthingales.on.ca has spoon busks & reg. hook-and-eye type busks. They also sell the pattern as a corset kit. I'm considering getting it, but it includes the german plastic boning. The lady I emailed said that it was much better than Rigilene, but I'm very wary.. Anyone have any experience with German plastic stuff? Kris delurking... :] oh, and they hav pics of the corset made up on their site. They're lovely patterns. :] http://farthingales.on.ca/patterns.htm#patterns for teh exact URL.. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 23:05:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30179 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:05:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21932; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:20:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25629 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:18:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25622 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:18:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA05062 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:18:41 -0700 Received: from ip-55-009.sna.primenet.com(207.218.55.9), claiming to be "pavilion" via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpde.ZSaa; Wed Sep 8 21:18:36 1999 Message-Id: <4.1.19990908212353.073582a0@pop.primenet.com> X-Sender: kittykat@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 21:24:18 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? In-Reply-To: References: <19990909021409.29925.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir At 07:32 PM 09/08/1999 , you wrote: > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > As I am not at the level of expertise most others seem to be. I >read, I try, I learn...I lurk...thus, am I ... Carol What she said! :-> Svanny Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir )O( Barony of Gyldenholt, Kingdom of Caid kittykat@primenet.com ICQ: 12691776 (NyteRaevyn) AIM: SvanhildrV _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 23:12:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30188 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:12:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22458; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:27:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25398 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:16:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.mts.net (smtp1.mts.net [205.200.16.74]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25392 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:16:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mb.sympatico.ca (wnpgas04-p20.mts.net [205.200.53.178]) by smtp1.mts.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA04264 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:16:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37D734B3.EFDF1AA6@mb.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 23:16:51 -0500 From: Dianne Kristoff X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-SYMPA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Dressed & out of the closet! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dianne Kristoff Such pressure on us lurkers....but a great opportunity to stumble into the list. At the tender age of 52 years I have just begun grad school. My focus is undergarments of the 18th and 19th century. At the moment my knowledge is general but not without background. Since I love the idea of fun, I'm hoping to do some specific work on the boudoir of some dazzling beauties of that time frame. Even better than fun, I love suggestions! Whew....I did it. Dianne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 23:16:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30195 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:16:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23248; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:32:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA26965 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:30:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ogopogo.flash.net (ogopogo.flash.net [209.30.6.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26958 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:30:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p187.amax19.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.68.187]) by ogopogo.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05773 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:30:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37D73777.F0138A0F@flash.net> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 23:28:39 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? References: <19990908233456.19196.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> <010201befa59$19076160$de3daccf@e4c2n6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette Penny Ladnier wrote: > Alright, introverts, stop pausing, and start talking. Let's make Thursday, > 9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day. We stop talking for ONE day, and let the > introverts speak! We are listening now, its your forum! > > Later... Penny (One of the Extros, along with Margo, Charlene , > R.L. Shep, Sally, Sarah, Albert Cat, Jennie, Drea, Fran, gee, if I left any > of you extros out, I'm sorry. This is the last you will hear from me until > 9/10/99) Actually, I don't post very often to this list. I think you're confusing me from the h-needlework list. :-) OK, so I'll wait until after Sep 10th to tell you about the letter I received from Vienna when I asked about the bliaut. --Charlene -- If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 23:24:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30219 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:24:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24344; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:40:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA27874 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:38:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (alpha.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.21.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27865 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:38:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from antiquity.pbc.adelphia.net (surf12-151-182.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.151.182]) by alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id AAA23931 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:43:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00a901befa7d$2fabd940$b6973018@pbc.adelphia.net> From: "Erica Pence" To: References: <19990909034710.THJO22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Subject: Re: H-COST: 9/9/99 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:38:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A6_01BEFA5B.A7860A20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Erica Pence" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01BEFA5B.A7860A20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Okay, I confess, I am a lurker. What now? Forced to talk, you say. = What is this world coming to? Penny asked if the lurkers were introverts. I would have to say not = necessarily. I am primarily a lurker (with an occasional post) and am = actually quite the extrovert. By the time I have hit the keyboard at = the end of a long day, I am simply too tired to join in the many = interesting conversations on this list, as well as other lists I lurk. = Therefore, I have become perfectly content with reading. I enjoy the = questions, the answers, the informative posts, and admittedly even the = occasional argument. Hey, Jerry Springer is just too much for me. I = will settle with a good costuming debate any day. Margo mentioned that it would be tough for her not to post for "Lurkers = Speak Out Day" or whatever this is called. I am sure that many of us = lurkers would sooner enjoy reading your posts than trying to come up = with something to say. Hang in there, Margo, its just one day.=20 And finally, R.L. Shep wrote: <
Okay, I confess, I am a lurker.  What = now?  Forced=20 to talk, you say.  What is this world coming to?
 
Penny asked if the lurkers were introverts.  I = would have=20 to say not necessarily.  I am primarily a lurker (with an = occasional post)=20 and am actually quite the extrovert.  By the time I have hit the = keyboard=20 at the end of a long day, I am simply too tired to join in the many = interesting=20 conversations on this list, as well as other lists I lurk.  = Therefore, I=20 have become perfectly content with reading.  I enjoy the questions, = the=20 answers, the informative posts, and admittedly even the occasional=20 argument.  Hey, Jerry Springer is just too much for me.  I = will settle=20 with a good costuming debate any day.
 
Margo mentioned that it would be tough for her not = to post for=20 "Lurkers Speak Out Day" or whatever this is called.  I am sure that = many of=20 us lurkers would sooner enjoy reading your posts than trying to come up = with=20 something to say.  Hang in there, Margo, its just one day. =
 
And finally, R.L. Shep wrote:
<<Frankly I think I lurk a lot more than I = speak, but=20 obviously Penny does not
think so..... so there!
I think Penny may think you speak more than lurk = simply=20 because you and your site are often mentioned by satisfied costumers and = researchers. Take it as a compliment.  You are a popular = lurker on=20 this list.
 
Well, I for one, am now returning to my = lurking. =20 Actually I am going to bed early...it's only 12:30am.  = Yippee!
 
Happy Lurkers Day and all that other good = stuff!!
 
Erica Pence
Robes of Antiquity
www.robesofantiquity.com
= Online=20 store coming soon!
------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01BEFA5B.A7860A20-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 23:33:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30229 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:33:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25535; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:48:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28821 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:46:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1-1.bctel.ca (mail1.bctel.ca [207.194.28.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28810 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:46:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bc.sympatico.ca (clwk01m01-54.bctel.ca [209.52.192.54]) by mail1-1.bctel.ca (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA05969 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 21:46:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37D73BA0.6C6C6B53@bc.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 21:46:24 -0700 From: Marilyn Warren Organization: Crone's Sewing Circle and Terrorist Society X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-SYMPA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marilyn Warren I am a costuming newbie though I have been sewing for tens of years. I have made simple clothing, but nothing elaborate. I want to tackle a tougher project though. I think I need challenge to go forward. I am daunted by those on the list with soooooo much experience. Half the time I do not know what they are even talking about, but I look up the words and am getting better. I am learning all the time and have the courage to try a fancy gown, though still rather a simple one. I am in the process, taking my first baby steps. Alas, I still tear out as much as I sew, but when I get through removing stitches and re-sewing, it looks great. I aspire to doing it once and having it right. Sigh. One can dream. Sounds like Carol and I are at the same stage. We can commiserate with one another. Marilyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 23:40:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30235 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:40:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26280; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:57:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA29787 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:54:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29781 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:54:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-76.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FHS000S60A5NX@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:54:07 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 23:52:30 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <37D73D0E.62B28B99@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199909090234.UAA10480@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson Both I and my wife are on the list. I tend to lurk since there are only a few topics I am disposed to share on, and she because she doesn't have much time to contribute. Marc (and Jennifer) Carlson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 23:44:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30240 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:44:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26607; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:00:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA00433 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:58:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00427 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:58:30 -0600 (MDT) From: Morses3@aol.com Received: from Morses3@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ZJIa01400 (4532) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:57:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6074c459.25089843@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:57:39 EDT Subject: H-COST: Lurking doesn't mean "not learning" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Morses3@aol.com I have "lurked" for about a year on this list, originally to pick up some inspiration for when I could start to really learn to sew, instead of jabbing at it like I had been. Along with inspiration, I've learned a huge amount from all the posters here, especially about methods of experimenting with patterns, sources for hard to find supplies, the best costume book reviews I've seen, to ALWAYS make a muslin first before cutting good fabric, and even how to get the cat smell out of that great chair I got at an auction! We may be lurkers, but I bet I'm not the only one with boxes full of patterns, shelves full of books, a sketchbook of plans, drawers full of fabric and lots of questions once I get started..... Watch out, we'll take over the list someday :-) Perry Morse _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 23:46:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30247 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:46:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26788; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:02:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA00708 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:00:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (alpha.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.21.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00699 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:00:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from antiquity.pbc.adelphia.net (surf12-151-182.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.151.182]) by alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id BAA20397 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:05:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00ba01befa80$489f2620$b6973018@pbc.adelphia.net> From: "Erica Pence" To: References: <37D734B3.EFDF1AA6@mb.sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: H-COST: Dressed & out of the closet! Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:00:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B7_01BEFA5E.C0C41BA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Erica Pence" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01BEFA5E.C0C41BA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Oh, I had to comment on this one before I am off to bed. Dianne wrote: < Good for you!=20 That reminds me of an unanswered question that a few of us were = discussing on another list awhile back (can't remember which one). The = question was something to the effect of did women of late 1800's (1880's = or 90's) tuck their chemise into their drawers, or leave them out? One = poster insisted that they left them out, although I saw a picture of a = chemise tucked into the drawers in one of my books. Was it the option = of the wearer or was there a trend? The poster with the question wanted = actual documentation. I am interested to know the answer to this from = someone with more expertise on the subject. Don't mean to put you on the = spot, Dianne. This question is open to anyone with a comment. =20 Thanks! =20 Erica Pence Robes of Antiquity www.robesofantiquity.com Online store coming soon! ------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01BEFA5E.C0C41BA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Oh, I had to comment on this one before I am off to=20 bed.
 
Dianne wrote:
<<At the tender age of 52 years I have just = begun grad=20 school.  My focus
is undergarments of the 18th and 19th = century. =20 At the moment my
knowledge is general but not without background=20 <snip>
 
Good for you! 
 
 That reminds me of an unanswered question that = a few of=20 us were discussing on another list awhile back (can't remember which = one). =20 The question was something to the effect of did women of late 1800's = (1880's or=20 90's) tuck their chemise into their drawers, or leave them out?  = One poster=20 insisted that they left them out, although I saw a picture of a = chemise=20 tucked into the drawers in one of my books.  Was it the option of = the=20 wearer or was there a trend?  The poster with the question wanted = actual=20 documentation.   I am interested to know the answer to = this from=20 someone with more expertise on the subject. Don't mean to put you on the = spot,=20 Dianne.  This question is open to anyone with a comment. =20
 
Thanks! 
 
Erica Pence
Robes of Antiquity
www.robesofantiquity.com
= Online=20 store coming soon!
------=_NextPart_000_00B7_01BEFA5E.C0C41BA0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 23:52:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30257 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:52:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27452; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:09:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA01728 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:07:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01719 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:07:30 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6YXHa02400 (4227) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:06:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:06:29 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Lurking doesn't mean "not learning" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 9/8/1999 21:59:03 Pacific Daylight Time, Morses3@aol.com writes: << We may be lurkers, but I bet I'm not the only one with boxes full of patterns, shelves full of books, a sketchbook of plans, drawers full of fabric and lots of questions once I get started..... Watch out, we'll take over the list someday :-) >> This is delightful! what a chorus of unheard from souls.... all responding to a teensy little challenge to be heard. Well done, Penny! Now if we can get them to contribute more often. Stories of what you all do with those shelves of books, sketchbooks and drawers of fabric Angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 23:57:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30262 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:57:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27977; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA02187 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:12:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from boomer.brightok.net (boomer.brightok.net [206.30.97.13]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02177 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:11:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.brightok.net (springer1p44.cld.brightok.net [206.30.113.44]) by boomer.brightok.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11652 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:11:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37D743F8.424A9ED@mail.brightok.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 00:22:01 -0500 From: The Mulders X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? References: <199909090234.UAA10480@net.indra.com> <37D73D0E.62B28B99@utulsa.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Mulders I'd like to introduce myself to the list and admit I'm a lurker. I work for the national park service as a ranger. I'm also an artist (environmental art mostly in oils) and a historic costumer. I've designed and made garments for my own business and as a house fashion designer. I have a degree in biology and chemistry with a recent background in microbiology research. I have two grown boys and a cowboy husband. I read most of the list but not all, no extra time. I do have a request, does anyone know of someone [N. Texas or Oklahoma] who has an useable sidesaddle to "loan" for a living history program in December? Thanks, Ninya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 8 23:58:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30266 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:58:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28189; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:15:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA02375 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:13:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop3-3.enteract.com (pop3-3.enteract.com [207.229.143.32]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA02367 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:13:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 90407 invoked from network); 9 Sep 1999 05:13:28 -0000 Received: from 207-229-148-184.d.enteract.com (HELO lynnx.enteract.com) (207.229.148.184) by pop3-3.enteract.com with SMTP; 9 Sep 1999 05:13:28 -0000 Message-ID: <37D76682.1FA4@enteract.com> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 00:49:22 -0700 From: lynnx X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04Gold (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #542 References: <199909090500.XAA00731@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lynnx > Actually, I don't post very often to this list. I think you're confusing me > from the h-needlework list. :-) OK, so I'll wait until after Sep 10th to tell > you about the letter I received from Vienna when I asked about the bliaut. Hey, did it have any info the rest of us could use? (I don't care if it's in Italian, I can always get a dictionary :-) Heather ( on-and-off extro, whether I know anything or not) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 00:05:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30280 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:05:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28682; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:21:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA03181 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:19:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03165; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:19:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id OAA00559; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:49:34 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA04610; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:57:18 +0930 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:57:10 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #542 In-Reply-To: <37D76682.1FA4@enteract.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, lynnx wrote: > > -Poster: lynnx > > > Actually, I don't post very often to this list. I think you're confusing me > > from the h-needlework list. :-) OK, so I'll wait until after Sep 10th to tell > > you about the letter I received from Vienna when I asked about the bliaut. > > Hey, did it have any info the rest of us could use? (I don't care if > it's in Italian, I can always get a dictionary :-) > If it came from Vienna wouldn't it be in German? Claire (always a pedant :-) PS Never mind extrovert or not - tell us about that letter!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 00:11:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30286 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:11:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29068; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:27:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA03779 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:25:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eagle.sac.verio.net (root@eagle.sac.verio.net [207.159.5.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03770 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:25:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.159.15.75] (pm03-09.rose.sac.verio.net [207.159.15.75]) by eagle.sac.verio.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA12389 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:25:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: kworley@mail.ns.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909090500.XAA00731@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:24:42 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Katrina Worley Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #542 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Katrina Worley > That reminds me of an unanswered question that a few of us were = >discussing on another list awhile back (can't remember which one). The = >question was something to the effect of did women of late 1800's (1880's = >or 90's) tuck their chemise into their drawers, or leave them out? One = >poster insisted that they left them out, although I saw a picture of a = >chemise tucked into the drawers in one of my books. Was it the option = >of the wearer or was there a trend? The poster with the question wanted = >actual documentation. I am interested to know the answer to this from = >someone with more expertise on the subject. My research indicates that it depends on the relationship between the length of the chemise and the width legs/length of the crotch on the drawers. IOW, early in the century, when the chemises tended to be long and the drawers narrow, they were generally worn untucked. By the end of the century as the chemises became shorter and the drawers wider with a longer crotch, they tended to be tucked in. In between, it depended on personal preference, and the cut of the individual undergarments. I'd put the 1880-90 time period towards the end of the "personal preference" range. The "combination" undergarment of the turn of the century is in effect a "tucked-in" chemise and drawers sewn together into one garment. Katrina (returning to lurk mode) Katrina in Loomis, CA kworley@ns.net *************** History: what special people were doing in special places at special times; Anthropology: what everyone else was doing the rest of the time. **K. Worley, 1997** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 00:24:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30296 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:24:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29619; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:37:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA04934 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:35:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04928 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:35:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.180] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Owrl-0006Z8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:35:25 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 22:33:37 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990908212353.073582a0@pop.primenet.com> References: <19990909021409.29925.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 09:24 PM 09/08/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir >What she said! :-> > >Svanny Bless you, Svanny--there do seem to be a fair number of us, don't there! Gra/inne / Carol [living in the Province of Golden Rivers, working in the Shire of Windy Meads, Principality of Cynagua, Kingdom of the West--but usually encamped with the Shire of Crosston, Principality of the Mists, &c.] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 00:27:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30300 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:27:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29922; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:42:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA05374 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:40:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05364 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:40:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.180] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11OwwO-0006sy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:40:12 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 22:38:22 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? In-Reply-To: <37D73777.F0138A0F@flash.net> References: <19990908233456.19196.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> <010201befa59$19076160$de3daccf@e4c2n6> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 11:28 PM 09/08/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: Charlene Charette >Actually, I don't post very often to this list. I think you're confusing me >from the h-needlework list. :-) OK, so I'll wait until after Sep 10th to tell >you about the letter I received from Vienna when I asked about the bliaut. > >--Charlene Aah...noooo. Write it now, and let me be your guineapig...then you can fwd. it to the list... {grin} Carol / Gra/inne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 00:35:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30321 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:35:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00737; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:52:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA06394 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:50:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06388 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:50:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EK26QSAJ; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 01:49:31 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? Message-ID: <19990908.212547.4791.1.cley@juno.com> References: <19990909021409.29925.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> <4.1.19990908212353.073582a0@pop.primenet.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7-12 From: cynthia j ley Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 01:49:31 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: cynthia j ley What they said! :-) Arlys >> As I am not at the level of expertise most others seem to be. I >>read, I try, I learn...I lurk...thus, am I ... Carol > >What she said! :-> > >Svanny ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 00:35:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30325 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:35:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00801; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:52:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA06453 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:50:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com (dh-img-1.compuserve.com [149.174.206.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06448 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:50:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by hpdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/HP-1.8) id BAA18645 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:50:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:49:34 -0400 From: Cat Devereaux Subject: H-COST: Unlurking for 9-9-99 - long To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199909090149_MC2-8418-E5B5@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id XAA06449 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cat Devereaux I'll have to pop up a day early, because I'll be one of those computer nerds baby-sitting the computers tomorrow for 9-9-99... Actualy have a few things to respond to on the current list anyway. RE: Steel Busk with more than 4 hooks: I think it just the length of the busk that determins how many hooks. I've got two from AlterYears, the longer one has 5 hooks. You can contact them at sales@alteryears.com or 626-585-2994. (Don't use the older CompuserServe e-mail address or I'll just end up forwarding it to the ladies at the store... and that will delay the order.) RE: Laughing moon pattern: I've used the instructions to make another corset, since they're that clear. (Used it as a base for a straight front 1900 corset.) People who've made that pattern and a number of the other Victorian corsets, swear by the comfort of the longer Laughing Moon pattern. It''s a later period than most, too. Re: Sizing a pattern up from the grids: Even a perfect enlargement takes a lot of adjustment. Our bodies are such differnet sizes than the historical garments. I've found it faster to "Sketch" it on gridded pattern paper. When I start, I know what size I need for waist, length, etc. and mark out some of those main points on the big paper. I do the match on how many squares I'm using vs. how many the drawing is using. Get out my calculated, figgure out the the percentage increase. (I'm bigger, what can I say.) Then I sketch in the details counts squares and adding the percentage. Sometimes pieces of a regular pattern get added in to fix curve, figure ease, change necklines, etc. After the base sketch, I check it lightly on the body and then start the muslin process. If I'm not sure at all, I don't even cut the paper out, I trace a muslin from it for the areas where I'm not sure the sizing when and then check the muslins on the body... changes go back to the pattern piecies. LARGE ERASER! When done, ink in the final lines. Date it and note the person it was fit on AND their weight and measurements at that time. Will save a lot of time later and there's only one big piece of paper to roll up later. I've found sizing up from grids better for Hunnisett since she lists the basic size the grid is for... so the ease is already built in. Example: Hunisett's victorina petticoat with circular ruffle: say the person the patern being made for is two inches shorter and the waist is 25% more. Don't add the number of inches to the waist. Count how many squares the top two waist points cover. Make a dot on the paper where the waist should start. Make the other dot the number of squares over on the picture grid PLUS 25 % more squares. Mark that dot. Sketch in the same waist line. For the hem line, start on the "straight". Mark the bottom MINUS the two inches differnet in heigth. (This is a straight line, the inches= squares.) Lightly mark where the original "dot" would be for the other bottom corner. Now do two bits of math. Move the dot out 25% more (to make up for the waist expansion) then calculate how high up to come. Here you need to know what percentage the 2" was of the original lengh becuase this subtraction of length must be a percentage. Calculate the percentage and mark your 4th dot!!! Use a ruler to draw in the line from the waist and sketch the hem. (You may need to check the square count to figure out exactly how to get the clean curve there.) Basic petticoat is done! Then need to adjust the circle ruffle the same way. That line you drew from waist to floor in the back adjusted the width of the circle. OK, are you confused yet. Don't worry. Just use your high school math. Remeber diagramming one square over, two up... put a dot. It can be done. My sister made her first pattern this way crawling around on the grid paper on the kitchen floor... while training her body for her wedding by wearing the straight front corset (I was taking about in the 1st part of the post)... while I was fussing with expanding the details on an Arnold 1901 bodice. (Seriously.... deadly seriously.) OK, back into lurk mode. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 00:38:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA30332 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 00:38:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01034; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:55:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA06672 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:53:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06665 for ; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:53:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.180] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Ox93-0007nr-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 8 Sep 1999 22:53:18 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 08 Sep 1999 22:51:28 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? In-Reply-To: <37D73BA0.6C6C6B53@bc.sympatico.ca> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 09:46 PM 09/08/1999 -0700, you wrote: -Poster: Marilyn Warren I aspire >to doing it once and having it right. Sigh. One can dream. Sounds >like Carol and I are at the same stage. We can commiserate with one >another. There seem to be a fair number of us out here. By all means, let us proceed! My next project is an Italian Renaissance 'camisa {spelling?], undergown, and overgown. I have med.-dk. blue cotton velveteen [easy to work with, natural fiber, &c.] for the overgown. I intend to make the chemise of the finest linen I can find. Anyone care to suggest an appropriate fabric for the undergown and appropriate trim? I was thinking possibly of a cream color...maybe brocade? When did moire became fashionable--not until much later, did it? And might be too lightweight? I live in an area known for getting up to 110 degrees F. in the summer sometimes [it's now in the 90's daily], and down as far as the 60's-70's evenings. Or in the wintertime between [degrees F. again] 40's - freezing. For any suggestions, thank you in advance for lending your expertise to my cause. -- Carol / Gra/inne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 02:13:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06055 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 02:13:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA05520; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:30:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA15270 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:28:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA15265 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 01:28:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Thu Sep 9 00:27:38 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 00:27:38 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Expiredinmiddle: true X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.36.156 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" lol well I really don't fall into the intro/extro catagories. I have just felt so far that I had nothing really worth while to add tot he conversation. I'm fairly new at the actual construction of historic costume. I've been a small time collector/big time admirer since I was 11 or 12. From then on it's been a big part of my life...a main interest if you will. saw this list and felt that I should join because it would be a wonderful chance to learn. I'm planning on getting married in the not TOO terribly distant future and would love to have a vintage looking dress, what better way to get exactly what I want than to make it myself, right? So I'm here to observe and to learn. I've found a designer in the UK that makes very elaborate dresses (wedding/special ocassion) if I can't manage to make one myself I'll resort back to her I suppose. Her dresses are beautiful but you know there is always one thng about a dress that just doesn't seem right, whether it be colour or fabric, o! r a button you don't like. For perfection (at least in your own eyes) it's best to do it yourself :) lol then you have noone else to blame. Well there, I contributed! Oh I have a question... I remember reading in ...Victoria I think it was, that there was a museum in New England ...Rochester (although I can't remember if it was NY or MA)of costume and that they rented some of their dresses for weddings etc. Does anyone know of this museum or if they still do this? Ginn --- Ginnaphure ICQ# 41340093 "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:09:12 The Purple Elephant wrote: > >-Poster: The Purple Elephant > >On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Penny Ladnier wrote: > >> >> Alright, introverts, stop pausing, and start talking. Let's make Thursday, >> 9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day. We stop talking for ONE day, and let the >> introverts speak! We are listening now, its your forum! >> >> Later... Penny (One of the Extros, along with Margo, Charlene , >> R.L. Shep, Sally, Sarah, Albert Cat, Jennie, Drea, Fran, gee, if I left any >> of you extros out, I'm sorry. This is the last you will hear from me until >> 9/10/99) >But the 9/10 is halfway over here. Oh you mean the 10/9...whoops. >*grin* >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, >Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" >and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson >friendly substance. >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 04:12:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26935 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 04:12:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA10308; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 03:29:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA18157 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 03:26:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout4.whowhere.com (mc-qout4.whowhere.com [209.185.123.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA18047 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 03:26:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by my-deja.com; Thu Sep 9 02:25:45 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 02:25:45 -0700 From: "Mary HInton" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: H-COST: Tudor/18C stays and shoulder straps X-Sender-Ip: 194.168.5.49 Organization: My Deja Email (http://www.my-deja.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Mary HInton" Re Tudor stays and the teenager who didn't like the shoulder straps. I think both N Waugh and Cunnington state that the shoulder straps also serve to narrow the back and expand the chest - this is more than just keeping the stays in place. I am sure a present day teenager might find this a bit uncomfortable. I have seen pictures of 18C stays where the shoulder strap goes from the high boned back, forward and down over the shoulder and fastens quite a way back under the arm. I am not sure if this was to give the wide neckline, and/or to pull the shoulders back. ---Mary --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 05:59:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA27004 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:59:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14668; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:16:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA24560 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:14:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sand.global.net.uk (sand.global.net.uk [195.147.248.109] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA24554 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:14:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pecs05a07.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.229.237] helo=WAL-LHIGGINS) by sand.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 11P29M-0001WA-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:13:56 +0100 X-Sender: duchess@mail.globalnet.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 11:59:51 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Elizabeth Higgins Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? In-Reply-To: <010201befa59$19076160$de3daccf@e4c2n6> References: <19990908233456.19196.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Higgins At 20:20 08/09/99 -0400, you wrote: >Are our lurkers introverts???? In no way am I an introvert! If you said that to any of my friends they would have a laughing fit. It's just that at the moment I have very little to offer. My house is far too small to do any dressmaking in, so I shall be buying a new and bigger place in a few months. Then I shall set up my sewing machine (unused so far) and start to learn what all you good people take for granted. All I can say is watch out for a whole mess of questions when that happens, you may regret asking people to crawl out of the woodwork . In the meantime I lurk and read with great interest, particularly the postings related to the late Victorian era, which is my main period of interest. Lissa (well I hate Liz) aka The Duchess (well I did say I was an extrovert ) People are always blaming their circumstances for what they are. I don't believe in circumstances. The people who get on in this world are the people who get up and look for the circumstances they want, and, if they can't find them, make them. -- George Bernard Shaw, "Mrs. Warren's Profession," 1893 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 06:06:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA27025 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:06:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14875; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:23:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA25176 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:21:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA25170 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:21:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.82.96] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A72A208700CE; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 07:16:58 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01befab5$6660d840$6052ccd1@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: <19990908233456.19196.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> <010201befa59$19076160$de3daccf@e4c2n6> Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:21:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" ----- Original Message ----- > -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > > Alright, introverts, stop pausing, and start talking. Let's make Thursday, > 9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day. We stop talking for ONE day, and let the > introverts speak! We are listening now, its your forum! > > Later... Penny (One of the Extros, along with Margo, Charlene , > R.L. Shep, Sally, Sarah, Albert Cat, Jennie, Drea, Fran, gee, if I left any > of you extros out, I'm sorry. This is the last you will hear from me until > 9/10/99) Gracious! I've woken up to 52 messages in my inbox this morning, SOMEONE certainly must be speaking out! Hmm, I think that in the year or so I've been on this list I've made at *least* 8 posts, and this doesn't qualify me as an extro!? ;-) Keep having fun and dispensing the wonderful information everyone, I'm sliding back into the shadows now. :-D Kerrie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 06:33:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA27044 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:33:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA15919; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:50:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA27551 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:48:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de (mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE [130.149.4.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA27543 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 05:48:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from coal.bg.tu-berlin.de ([130.149.43.192]) by mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de with smtp (EXIM-3.03) for id 11P2gd-00038n-00; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:48:19 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990909134602.00949340@130.149.12.212> X-Sender: barbara@130.149.12.212 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:46:02 +0200 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Barbara Maren Winkler Subject: H-COST: Thursday, 9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day In-Reply-To: <199909090926.DAA19913@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id FAA27547 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Barbara Maren Winkler I have posted twice in the last two months, do I count as an introvert? I am currently writing up my Ph.D. thesis (which is in _mining_, not _costuming_) and don't have much _time_. I still have in my mind, when all this is over and I'm awaiting my baby, to take up the idea again of a new FAQ list. Things I haven't said: People always contend that there were no buttons in the middle ages. I don't know what kinds of buttons you mean, but when I was in the Danish Nationalmuseet in Kopenhagen in May, they had two complete outfits on display from the medieval period in Denmark (which began later than elsewhere, around 1000). These outfits were obviously replicas of dresses found at excavations or in bogs. And the sleeves did have buttons, a long row of small fabric-covered buttons all down the outside of the underarm, to get the narrow sleeve closed. I just don't find my notes on it. It was 11th or 12th century. When I was in the Berlin National Gallery the other day, I noticed that in the early 1500 paintings, everybody had sleeves not sewn closed, but pinned around the arm, and sometime the detail was elaborate: so, sometimes, they were obviously closed with little straps, and sometimes with little buttons as well. On many paintings from the 1500s and 1600s, I noticed slashes in people's clothes through which the undergarment showed. These slashes were sometimes decorative (as for sleeves), but more often functional, to allow for ease without shaping tight garments around the knee, elbow, the knuckles of gloves, the hip, one time even the codpiece. Nowwhere was there an indication that the edges of these slashes were cared for in any way (so as not to fray). My theory is that outer garments were made of fulled wool, which doesn't fray. For those of you who read German and are interested in Victorian/Edwardian undergarments, there is a book I can recommend: "Das Buch der Wäsche." by Brigitta Hochfelden and Marie Niedner (reprint), hardback, ISBN: 3887460812, Price DEM 49.00 or EUR 25.05, available e.g. from amazon.de (www.amazon.de . Or try www.buchhandel.de). The original from around 1900 (no year given :-( ) is about all aspects of undergarments and household linen, construction, embroidery, signing, whitework, care, washing, etc., with many drawings/etchings and 5 pattern sheets. A beautiful reprint edition from 1988. There you are! Happy 9/9/99 to all! Hope your computers and databases will make it! Barbara Maren -- Barbara Maren Winkler barbara@math.tu-berlin.de _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 06:57:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA27074 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:57:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA17748; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:14:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA29732 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:12:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA29725 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:12:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909091212.GAA29725@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 8845 invoked from network); 9 Sep 1999 06:12:10 -0600 Received: from ts26-17.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.131) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 9 Sep 1999 06:12:10 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:17:48 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" Whoa! > Actually, I don't post very often to this list. I think you're confusing me > from the h-needlework list. :-) > --Charlene > > -- > If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you. H-needlework list? Please tell me more! Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 07:23:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27110 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:23:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA19340; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:40:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA02400 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:37:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA02393 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:37:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.405) with smtp for sender: id ; Thu, 9 Sep 99 07:37:49 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <014401befabf$aff948c0$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:34:40 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" Yes, for the most part I am a lurker. I do this for many reasons...time, learning what other people think, not much to contribute....but I do post an occasional response when I feel it is necessary. I do that on all the lists that I am a member of. Carol Ross _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 07:57:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27150 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:57:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21372; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:14:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA06199 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:11:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06194 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:11:49 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6BJNa00255 (3864) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:11:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:11:10 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Thursday, 9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com Happy Inrovert's Day --as well, from another 'lurker'. Actually I've been doing costumning for almost 28 years, mostly 16th century, with side ventures into the Regency, the Georgian, and Edwardian periods.With my busy work and teaching schedule,I , too, often don't have the energy to post very much. And just when someone puts out a plea for help--and my fingers get itchy to reply , I notice the Extroverts jump right in. Which is fine--just as long as those questions get taken care of by someone. Anyway, I've enjoyed reading the discussions--and found them informative, as well as sometimes entertaining:) Cheers to all-- albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 08:04:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27188 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:04:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21907; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:21:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07182 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:18:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bert.acesag.auburn.edu (bert.acesag.auburn.edu [131.204.46.47]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07176 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:18:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from aces153.acesag.auburn.edu (aces153.acesag.auburn.edu [131.204.46.153]) by bert.acesag.auburn.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA29386; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:18:51 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:20:03 -0500 () From: "A. Benton" To: h-costume@indra.com cc: "A. Benton" Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: X-X-Sender: abenton@bert.acesag.auburn.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "A. Benton" Greetings to all fellow lurkers!! My name is Andrea, and I also lurk the corridors of the list. And like many, I am in the SCA...and have started taking more of an interest in making my garb more...."presentable" :-) I speak up every so often.... (now, back into lurking mode!) Andrea in Alabama _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 08:04:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27192 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:04:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21926; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:21:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07150 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:18:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07143 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:18:45 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6CMZa06251 (4569) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:18:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2f7c6728.25090d8d@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:18:05 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Thursday, 9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com In a message dated 9/9/1999 9:12:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, AlbraKat@aol.com writes: > and my fingers get itchy to reply > , I notice the Extroverts jump right in. Which is fine--just as long as > those > questions get taken care of by someone. But please, be sure you jump in if you see some misinformation in reply! Unfortunately, there seems to be some of that on this list. (I don't count myself as a lurker--I chime in rather often, if the inquiry is in my area of interest/expertise.) Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 08:07:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27235 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:07:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22283; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:24:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07673 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:22:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07668 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:22:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990909132230.HAQD9848.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a> for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:22:30 -0700 Message-ID: <01a701befac4$5c3713c0$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: References: <19990909021409.29925.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> <4.1.19990908212353.073582a0@pop.primenet.com> Subject: H-COST: Wool Question Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:08:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" I don't know if I'm an "in" or an "ex" but I have a question just the same. Before I send back this wool that I thought was at least 13 oz. Does anyone know of any uses in medieval/renaissance periods of a lightweight wool such as a gabardine? It's really lovely material and if I was inclined to make myself a dress suit, it would be of this material. As it turns, I was intending to make some capes and trews from it and wanted a heavier weight. Thanks in advance. ~Kyna (who sometimes lurks...sometimes saves posts to read later and sometimes even butts into the conversation) ---- ICQ#12859312 Grannd Garb Historic Clothing, Supplies and Accessories http://GranndGarb.com http://TheMarketSquare.com COMING SOON!! Ask for details about your selling space now. ----- Original Message ----- From: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir To: Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 12:24 AM Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? > > -Poster: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir > > At 07:32 PM 09/08/1999 , you wrote: > > > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > > > As I am not at the level of expertise most others seem to be. I > >read, I try, I learn...I lurk...thus, am I ... Carol > > What she said! :-> > > Svanny > > > Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir )O( > Barony of Gyldenholt, Kingdom of Caid > kittykat@primenet.com > ICQ: 12691776 (NyteRaevyn) > AIM: SvanhildrV > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 08:16:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27285 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:16:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23027; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:33:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA08948 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:31:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08935 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-238-163.s163.tnt2.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.238.163]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA00161 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:35:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003101befac8$e114ea00$a3ee7ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <19990909021409.29925.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> <4.1.19990908212353.073582a0@pop.primenet.com> <01a701befac4$5c3713c0$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Wool Question Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:40:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > Does anyone know of any uses in medieval/renaissance periods of a > lightweight wool such as a gabardine? It's really lovely material and if I > was inclined to make myself a dress suit, it would be of this material. As > it turns, I was intending to make some capes and trews from it and wanted a > heavier weight. > > Thanks in advance. > > ~Kyna (who sometimes lurks...sometimes saves posts to read later and > sometimes even butts into the conversation) You could make a cotehardie (14th cent) or Elizabethan. How much do you have? If you have enough, it could make a beautiful houppleande. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 08:16:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27289 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:16:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23071; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:33:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA09011 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:31:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lib.uttyl.edu (lib.uttyl.edu [192.88.13.225]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA09005 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:31:23 -0600 (MDT) From: VICKI@lib.uttyl.edu Received: by lib.uttyl.edu for H-COSTUME@indra.com; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 8:33:20 -0500 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 8:33:20 -0500 To: H-COSTUME@indra.com Message-Id: <990909083320.15a4@lib.uttyl.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: Thursday, 9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: VICKI@lib.uttyl.edu Another lurker timidly raises her hand.....My name is Vicki Betts, and although I'm a frequent poster on cw-reenactors, I only occasionally post a question on h-costume. I mostly do American Civil War era clothing, and my current research interest is Confederate homespun dresses. In fact, week after next I have another research trip to Georgia and Tennessee (after Chickamauga) to see dresses at Brenau University, Tallulah Gorge State Park, Museum of Appala- chia, and a dress in private hands. This will all go towards a slide show/ talk for a conference in Athens, GA, next summer. When I'm not doing Civil War, I range from the Texas War of Independence (1836) to Wild West (1889). My main problem is that I tend to research too much and sew too little! Vicki Betts vbetts@gower.net vicki@lib.uttyl.edu _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 08:31:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27351 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:31:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24455; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:47:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10887 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:45:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10879 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:45:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.net (ip204.an1-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.12.204]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA17906 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:45:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37D7BA65.82521907@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 09:47:18 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: meep! References: <199908112032.OAA24942@email.boisestate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Laurel Wilson >From a (mostly) lurker: I lurk because--I guess I have to come out of the closet about this--I don't sew! [gasp]. So I never have anything to contribute to the technical discussions. I'm a grad student (same age as you, Dianne, and I'd love to hear from you off the list), working on the birth of fashion in the fourteenth century. I get tremendously valuable information from all of you, and contribute when I can, but it's rare that I have something to say that you guys don't already know! Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 08:32:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27367 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:32:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24721; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:49:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA11188 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:47:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chupacabras.flash.net (chupacabras.flash.net [209.30.6.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11180 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:47:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p175.amax34.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.71.175]) by chupacabras.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18812 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:47:20 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37D7BBAB.3764A7A6@flash.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 08:52:43 -0500 From: "V. Renee Bedford" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep! References: <199909090234.UAA10480@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "V. Renee Bedford" Carol, love it..."I lurk; therefore, I am!" So here's my delurking question: Can anyone refer me to (especially men's) Tudor commercial patterns? I'm no historian, and certainly don't have the huevos to call myself a costumer, but am under the impression that most available are Elizabethan. Specifically, I haven't found a pattern for the low-neck skirted jerkin worn over a doublet, a la Henry's VIII's Holbein portrait. There, that wasn't so hard! Thanks, Renée (on digest) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 08:35:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27381 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:35:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24941; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:51:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA11459 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:48:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11454 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:48:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990909134843.HJPA9848.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a> for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 06:48:43 -0700 Message-ID: <01f301befac8$06107e60$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: References: <19990909021409.29925.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> <4.1.19990908212353.073582a0@pop.primenet.com> <01a701befac4$5c3713c0$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> <003101befac8$e114ea00$a3ee7ad1@pavilion> Subject: Re: H-COST: Wool Question Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:34:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" > -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > You could make a cotehardie (14th cent) or Elizabethan. How much do you > have? If you have enough, it could make a beautiful houppleande. > Andrea > I have 25 yards of charcoal gray and 25 of coco brown. So I know I have more than enough. I was just so hesitant due to the weight. When compared to heavy weight wools, this gabardine looks modern to me :\ ~Kyna _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 08:36:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27385 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:36:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25286; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:53:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA11853 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:51:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chupacabras.flash.net (chupacabras.flash.net [209.30.6.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11839 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:51:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p175.amax34.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.71.175]) by chupacabras.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25559 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:51:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37D7BCAD.A9556B42@flash.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 08:57:01 -0500 From: "V. Renee Bedford" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Busks References: <199909090234.UAA10480@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "V. Renee Bedford" Megan, have you tried http://www.farthingales.on.ca/clasps.htm#busks ? HTH, Renée (delurking for 2nd time today!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 09:03:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27439 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:03:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28137; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:19:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA16659 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:17:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16644 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:17:33 -0600 (MDT) From: DRGurley@aol.com Received: from DRGurley@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6UOP0t2Mjt (4530) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:15:39 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: 9/9/99 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DRGurley@aol.com In a message dated 9/8/99 11:38:59 PM Central Daylight Time, antiquity@adelphia.net writes: > Penny asked if the lurkers were introverts. I would have to say not > necessarily. I am primarily a lurker (with an occasional post) and am > actually quite the extrovert. I am also a constant lurker who enjoys the various conversations and information I have gathered. The few posts I have made have received the most thoughtful, informative answers--thanks! As for being an introvert, HA! I am one of the most over-the-top extroverts you'd ever meet. I often just don't feel qualified or experienced enough to contribute much. We lurkers may be quiet, but I, for one, love this list! Dani G _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 09:06:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27443 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:06:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28472; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:23:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA17344 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:20:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17338 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:20:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.163] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11P54B-0001Fs-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:20:47 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 07:18:58 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep! In-Reply-To: <37D7BBAB.3764A7A6@flash.net> References: <199909090234.UAA10480@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id IAA17339 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 08:52 AM 09/09/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: "V. Renee Bedford" > >Carol, love it..."I lurk; therefore, I am!" Well, nearly...it was what I was playing on. :-) >So here's my delurking question: Can anyone refer me to (especially men's) Tudor >commercial patterns? Check the Green Duck on-line catalog. www.theducks.com. I vouch for Jania and Derek...they're good businesspeople and also very helpful--esp. Jania. Good luck! >There, that wasn't so hard! Thanks, Renée (on digest) Good to meet you...Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 09:08:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27447 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:08:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28651; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:24:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA17674 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:22:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17661 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:22:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.163] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11P55r-0001Mm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:22:31 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 07:20:41 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Wool Question In-Reply-To: <01f301befac8$06107e60$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> References: <19990909021409.29925.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> <4.1.19990908212353.073582a0@pop.primenet.com> <01a701befac4$5c3713c0$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> <003101befac8$e114ea00$a3ee7ad1@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 09:34 AM 09/09/1999 -0400, you wrote: -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" >I have 25 yards of charcoal gray and 25 of coco brown. So I know I have more >than enough. I was just so hesitant due to the weight. When compared to >heavy weight wools, this gabardine looks modern to me :\ It does, because that's the setting we are used to seeing it in--but it drapes and hangs like a dream--I chose gabardine for my first houppelande and have been very happy with it overall. Gra/inne / Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 09:13:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27456 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:13:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29293; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:30:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA18820 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:28:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay20.smtp.psi.net (relay20.smtp.psi.net [38.8.20.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18813 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:28:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.60.242.74] (helo=wer.tiac.net) by relay20.smtp.psi.net with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11P5Ba-0004s0-00; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:28:26 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990909102740.0081c9f0@pop.tiac.net> X-Sender: wer@pop.tiac.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 10:27:40 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Wayne&Bernice Subject: Re: H-COST: 9/9/99 In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Wayne&Bernice We lurkers may be quiet, but I, for one, love this list! Dani And that goes for me also...Bernice _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 09:14:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27460 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:14:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29380; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:31:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA18975 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:29:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web1301.mail.yahoo.com (web1301.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.151]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA18967 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:29:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990909143128.21951.rocketmail@web1301.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.54.226.52] by web1301.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 07:31:28 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:31:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Megan Irvine Subject: Re: H-COST: Laughing Moon corset (was OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep!) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Megan Irvine I guess I am one of the quiet ones here. Anyway, I bought the Laughing Moon pattern and I'm happy with it so far, but I'm used to having to make adjustments. I made the Dore style corset, the one without the bust gores, and I started with my size--20. I shortened the pattern pieces by 1" (because I am petite) and I ended up taking it in 2" because I wanted to be able to lace it tighter. The finished product gave me a nice silhouette, but I still want to make more adjustments. When laced up, there is a bigger gap in the lacing at the bottom of the corset (at my hips), because I found that if I lace it too tight in the hips, it cuts off my circulation. It maybe could be a wee bit tighter in the waist, too. I don't think it will be that hard to make these adjustments. I found the pattern to be easy to work with. I also recently made the chemise, and it worked out fine in my size without having to make any adjustments. I think I would eventually like to put together an 1870s gown, but for what purpose, I don't know. I don't belong to a costumers guild or anything like that. I'm just curious about this period (and many others). My husband thinks it's weird that I go through all the effort to make something that I end up wearing around the house. Meep. --- Harvey Georgia wrote: > > -Poster: Harvey Georgia > > meep. > > No, really. I usually only post when I have > something *specific* to say. > That, or time to say it. > > Georgia > back to mostly lurking. when I start making my vict. > corset, you'll hear > from me all right. > > actually... on that note.... I was planning to buy > the pattern that Laughing > Moon sell. Does anyone have experience with this? > > http:www.lafnmoon.com (I think... please correct if > I'm wrong) > G > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > === Megan Irvine __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 09:15:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27464 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:15:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29452; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:31:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA19050 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:29:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA19041 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:29:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990909142946.RZXY16271.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:29:46 -0700 Message-ID: <37D7C461.FA1AFB9@home.com> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 09:29:53 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Men's Tudor (was OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep! References: <199909090234.UAA10480@net.indra.com> <37D7BBAB.3764A7A6@flash.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent "V. Renee Bedford" wrote: > > So here's my delurking question: Can anyone refer me to (especially > men's) Tudor commercial patterns? I'm no historian, and certainly > don't have the huevos to call myself a costumer, but am under the > impression that most available are Elizabethan. > Specifically, I haven't found a pattern for the low-neck skirted > jerkin worn over a doublet, a la Henry's VIII's Holbein portrait. There are none by the Big Three yet but there *is* a Medieval Miscellania pattern. Check with Alter Years & Renaissance Times...I've also see it elsewhere but can't remember offhand and I'm right in the middle of sewing a Girl Scout leader uniform, making brownie name tags and assorted other things while trying to find all the lost items around the house and figuring out how to pay for two root canals! If you can size up at all it's also in Holkeboer's book but you'll have to tweak the pattern more depending on the person for whom you are fitting it. Kat the exhausted! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 09:20:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27474 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:20:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29977; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:36:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA20174 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:34:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web1303.mail.yahoo.com (web1303.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.153]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA20162 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:34:33 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990909143632.3252.rocketmail@web1303.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [192.54.226.52] by web1303.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 07:36:32 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 07:36:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Megan Irvine Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Megan Irvine I bought the busk for my Laughing Moon corset at Greenberg and Hammer and I think it's a 12" busk. They also had 14". I think that the pattern might call for 13" and I couldn't find that anywhere. 12" works ok for me because I am petite and I shortened the pattern anyway. I am not at home to check dimensions on things so I THINK that's what I used. Farthingale's seems to have a bigger selection: http://www.farthingales.on.ca/clasps.htm#busks but I've never ordered from them. --- Megan McHugh wrote: > > -Poster: "Megan McHugh" > > >actually... on that note.... I was planning to buy > the pattern that > Laughing > >Moon sell. Does anyone have experience with this? > > > I just bought the pattern and am planning on getting > around to it soon. > Does anyone have a good source for the busk closure > pictured on the pattern > envelope? Greenberg and Hammer show one in their > catalog, but say they have > only 4 hooks. The one pictured has at least 6 > (pattern is not in front of > me at the moment). > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > === Megan Irvine __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 09:46:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27490 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:46:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03321; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:03:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26304 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:00:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26290 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:00:53 -0600 (MDT) From: BlueMoonYD@aol.com Received: from BlueMoonYD@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6RAP_Fw3X_ (3935) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:00:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:00:18 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 52 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: BlueMoonYD@aol.com Um, hi, my name's Yvonne, and I'm a lurker. Last time I did the personality test I was almost evenly balanced between introvert and extrovert. I'm trying to stop making costumes to sell and actually make things for me, but I've discovered through this list that I have a lot to learn about accuracy. I do have a question, though. When I was in London this summer, I was told the Museum of London had just found the burial site of a noble Roman woman circa 2nd century AD in Spitalfields. Has anyone heard anything more about this? Thanks for all the wonderful information! Yvonne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 10:03:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27512 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:03:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05348; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:19:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00741 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:17:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00724 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:17:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA22601; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37D7CFF9.C1DE7230@serv.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 08:19:22 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Wool Question References: <19990909021409.29925.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> <4.1.19990908212353.073582a0@pop.primenet.com> <01a701befac4$5c3713c0$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> <003101befac8$e114ea00$a3ee7ad1@pavilion> <01f301befac8$06107e60$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > I have 25 yards of charcoal gray and 25 of coco brown. So I know I have more > than enough. I was just so hesitant due to the weight. When compared to > heavy weight wools, this gabardine looks modern to me :\ Actually in medieval through elizabethan times, fine wool was very much the norm for the higher classes. Heavy rough wool is the figment of the imagination of Hollywood etc... If I had that much I would make a cotehardie, a houppeland, and elizabethan, two light cloaks for warmer weather, some trews, and a blanket or two for my bed. heh heh. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 10:35:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27558 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:35:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10510; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:52:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09968 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:50:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09959 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 09:50:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-76.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.76]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA12977 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:50:01 -0700 Message-ID: <005501befadb$4a43ed20$4caba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: Delurking Day Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:52:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" Well, I delurk sometimes, mostly to ask questions. I don't generally answer them because at lot of them have to do with Medieval, Renaissance and Elizabethan and I don't know enough about those times periods to help anyone. I'm more of a Jack-of-all-Trades, Master-of-None. I have an interest in all time periods, but I'm not an expert in any one. I'm currently working on a reproduction of the Titanic Jump Dress, which I hope to finish by Christmas time so I can wear it to my husband's company party. I have to admit, though, I was getting a bit obsessive the other day when I couldn't find the EXACT buttons that I needed and I was on the Internet for hours and driving around to every store with buttons that I could find, so I decided to make them from some buttons that were close. Glad I did too, because they are exactly what I wanted. I have been making costumes, probably since I was 10, with varying degrees of authenticity :) I have made everything from Egyptian (when I was 10, not very historically accurate) to Xanadu (from the movie) to Grease (our high school used to have an annual 50's dance), so a little bit of historical, a little bit of Hollywood. I've also done 1850s and 1870-1880s stuff too. Now, if I can only find some red, satin ankle boots........ Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 10:47:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27568 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:47:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12130; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:03:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12500 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:01:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12430 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:00:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Andrea (port008.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.8]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id SAA20437 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:00:29 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <37D54492.8CC866FD@ndh.net> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 19:00:03 +0200 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Back again X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------5D76B077645BA7C9C81F587D" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------5D76B077645BA7C9C81F587D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello ! > http://farthingales.on.ca has spoon busks & reg. hook-and-eye type busks. > They also sell the pattern as a corset kit. I'm considering getting it, but > it includes the german plastic boning. The lady I emailed said that it was > much better than Rigilene, but I'm very wary.. Anyone have any experience > with German plastic stuff? > > Kris > delurking... :] > Well, this question gives me the opportunity to participate here again after a break andcontribute something hopefully helpful ;-). Yes, I have experiences with the German plastic boning, not surprisingly, as I am in Germany ;-). We used this for 18th century corset boning and it worked really well. It`s easy to cut if you have a cutter that`s sharp enough and it has got a smooth surface and can be well inserted into the sewn tunnels. It`s much more rigid than Rigilene and makes the corset look more period because the plastic isn`t seen on the outside or inside the corset. We tried to use it as a panier boning during our little baroque costume workshop over here as well, but for that purpose it`s too flexible and we had to take steel instead. So I would recommend it for corsets. Hope this helps, many greetings, Diana --------------5D76B077645BA7C9C81F587D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello !
  
http://farthingales.on.ca has spoon busks & reg. hook-and-eye type busks. 
They also sell the pattern as a corset kit. I'm considering getting it, but
it includes the german plastic boning. The lady I emailed said that it was 
much better than Rigilene, but I'm very wary.. Anyone have any experience 
with German plastic stuff?

Kris
delurking... :]
Well, this question gives me the opportunity to participate here again after a break andcontribute something hopefully helpful ;-).
Yes, I have experiences with the German plastic boning, not surprisingly, as I am in
Germany ;-).
We used this for 18th century corset boning and it worked really well.
It`s easy to cut if you have a cutter that`s sharp enough and it has got a smooth surface
and can be well inserted into the sewn tunnels.
It`s much more rigid than Rigilene and makes the corset look more period because the
plastic isn`t seen on the outside or inside the corset.
We tried to use it as a panier boning during our little baroque costume workshop over
here as well, but for that purpose it`s too flexible and we had to take steel instead.
So I would recommend it for corsets.

Hope this helps,
many greetings,
Diana
  --------------5D76B077645BA7C9C81F587D-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 11:42:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27638 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:42:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23192; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:58:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27355 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:56:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from falcon.canfield.com (falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27344 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:56:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Leslie (u6-57.wa.net [206.191.135.121]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA25460 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:02:54 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990909094702.035bad40@mail.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslie@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 09:55:54 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: Wool gabardine/Lurkfest 9.9.99 In-Reply-To: <199909091348.HAA11479@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Leslie Helms Kyna, the lightweight wool you have sounds to me like a wonderful fabric for cotehardies, houppelandes, Burgundians, Tudor, Flemish, and Elizabethan. The weave is not out of time for those, although what exact documentation exists for those garments in that weave is beyond my knowledge. I do know that our modern wools are, on average, heavier and fuzzier than is right for many garments. I'd say you have an asset rather than a liability! It's fun to hear from the quieter list members. In particular, the birth of fashion in the 14th century sounds like a great topic, Lauri. Tell us more! Leslie "Yeah, you know, Flemish. From Flemland." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 11:51:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27674 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:51:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25246; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:06:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29348 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:04:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29336 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:03:58 -0600 (MDT) From: MargEvaPor@aol.com Received: from MargEvaPor@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6XVIa20496 (3861) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:03:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4633c458.25094254@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:03:16 EDT Subject: H-COST: Lurking & Learning, 9/9/99 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MargEvaPor@aol.com In solidarity with the other so-called "introverts", I shall speak out today. I am a very satisfied member of this listserve. Although I can claim significant historical knowledge of costume--my very first costume book was James Laver's "Concise History" of, purchased at Williamsburg when I was about 10 yrs old--I must admit a shameful ignorance of sewing. During my years of theatre training I studied costume design, but was too lazy to participate in costume construction. Nowadays, as writer and social historian, my focus is British and Celtic cultures, roughly from the Elizabethan through the Victorian eras. I concentrated primarily on fashion and jewellery, until research for my 10th historical romance novel forced me into some rather intensive study of textile manufacture [printed linen, late 18th century]. I suspect my most recent post to this list was close to a year ago, when I needed info about how to access items in storage at the V&A in London. [My experiences while there, and at Bath, far exceeded my highest expectations.] I've never belonged to SCA. I occasionally attend Regency or Georgian era costume balls, mostly in connection with writers' conferences, and I have a little experience in period dancing. Because I can't make my own costumes, I create a design and a costumer takes it from there. Also, I purchase books from R.L. Shep, and am really jazzed to see that name pop up on the list from time to time. Many thanks for the shared wisdom and knowledge here, which I find entirely fascinating and extremely useful! Cheers, Margaret Evans Porter http://members.aol.com/MargEvaPor/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 11:59:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27728 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:59:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26980; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:15:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02066 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:13:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02047 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:13:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA08669 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:13:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp228-183.worldonline.nl [195.241.228.183]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA03102 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:13:13 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909091713.TAA03102@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: victorian manners book Date: Wed, 8 Sep 1999 19:35:45 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands > ><< n it a "wild west" bad guy questions the child with > > "Would you like me to blow a hole in your head?" >> > > > >Of course the proper Victorian reply is: > > > >"Oh my goodness no! [curtsey] But thank you very much for asking." > > > <::snort::> Not fair! Now I have to wipe Diet Pepsi off my monitor! > OK, but wasn't it worth the chuckle. Thanks, Albert, for making me laugh after a stressful day, Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 12:00:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27734 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:00:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27222; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:16:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02393 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:14:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m10.boston.juno.com (m10.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.195]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02378 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:14:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from annetteallen@juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EK4DSSBG; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:12:11 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:01:39 +0000 Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? Message-ID: <19990909.101015.-403639.1.AnnetteAllen@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-8,10-40 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Annette M Allen Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Annette M Allen Maybe we don't feel as qualified to speak on many of the issues as some of you... I enjoy my "morning mail", but usually by the time I think I might reply to something, someone else already has... (Hey, maybe that introverted "pause for thought" DOES have something to do with it.... Hmmm...) -Annette On Wed, 8 Sep 1999 20:20:15 -0400 "Penny Ladnier" writes: > > -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > > Are our lurkers introverts???? > > From the webpage article, Revenge of the Introverts > : > "Yet, silent as they may be, introverts can have a lot to say given > the > right forum. They've found that the internet can help them > communicate in > their preferred manner; a written dialogue with time to pause for > thought > and analysis. " > > Alright, introverts, stop pausing, and start talking. Let's make > Thursday, > 9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day. We stop talking for ONE day, and > let the > introverts speak! We are listening now, its your forum! > > Later... Penny (One of the Extros, along with Margo, Charlene of you>, > R.L. Shep, Sally, Sarah, Albert Cat, Jennie, Drea, Fran, gee, if I > left any > of you extros out, I'm sorry. This is the last you will hear from > me until > 9/10/99) > http://www.costumegallery.com > > ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 12:07:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27771 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:07:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28359; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:23:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA03992 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:21:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03983 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:21:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990909172126.KCYS9848.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a>; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:21:26 -0700 Message-ID: <025101befae5$bd970b40$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: , References: <4.1.19990909094702.035bad40@mail.canfield.com> Subject: H-COST: Thank You WAS Re: Wool Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:07:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" Thanks to everyone that's been responding! Sheesh...I've been going by what I see at fairs and reenactments. I guess that considering the fact that the wool blends which are heavier, are also less expensive, it's no surprise that it is the choice of many other merchants. I'm *REALLY* excited about this wool now. I have a total of 75 yards including the black watch plaid worsted gabardine. I'm thinking along the lines of a few cotehardies and houpelandes and possibly an Elizabethan for myself (I'm in dire need of new garb but I keep putting it off until "after this next fair" or "after the Christmas rush" etc. ::sighs::) I'll let everyone know how these come out. I can see how with the drapability of this fabrice that the houpelands and cotehardies will be especially nice. ~Kyna _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 12:28:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27795 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:28:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24036; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:01:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA28249 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:59:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.zebra.net (mail.zebra.net [209.12.13.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28226 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:59:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zebra.net ([209.12.238.2]) by mail.zebra.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:55:01 -0500 Message-ID: <37D7E77D.C66B6B9@zebra.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 11:59:41 -0500 From: Meribeth McCombs X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Confederate Uniform Braid References: <005501befadb$4a43ed20$4caba0d1@j9g8x8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Meribeth McCombs Hi all... I'm defering to the greater knowledge of the list to help this lurker out of a jam. My husband needs his officer's frock coat finished by Wednesday and I have no idea as to the type and width of the braid used in the Austrian Knots on the Confederate frock coats. Can someone help me out? Also, how was the stuff attached to the coats? Thanks.... MeriBeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 12:30:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27804 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:30:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02882; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:46:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09603 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:43:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alchemyweb.greateralchemy.net ([209.186.228.137]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA09558 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:43:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ELEMENTAL (unverified [209.30.236.168]) by alchemyweb.greateralchemy.net (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 12:53:16 -0500 Received: by ELEMENTAL with Microsoft Mail id <01BEFAC0.BAA394A0@ELEMENTAL>; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:42:08 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEFAC0.BAA394A0@ELEMENTAL> From: Carrie Veenstra To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Wool Question Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:13:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BEFAC0.BAA394A0" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carrie Veenstra ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEFAC0.BAA394A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I too, was just now fantasizing about having that much wonderful wool to play with...is there a support group? ;-> Carrie -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > I have 25 yards of charcoal gray and 25 of coco brown. So I know I have more > than enough. I was just so hesitant due to the weight. When compared to > heavy weight wools, this gabardine looks modern to me :\ Actually in medieval through elizabethan times, fine wool was very much the norm for the higher classes. Heavy rough wool is the figment of the imagination of Hollywood etc... If I had that much I would make a cotehardie, a houppeland, and elizabethan, two light cloaks for warmer weather, some trews, and a blanket or two for my bed. heh heh. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEFAC0.BAA394A0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IggRAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAoAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGgtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRy YS5jb20AU01UUABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAUAAAAaC1jb3N0dW1lQGluZHJhLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAWAAAA J2gtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRyYS5jb20nAAAAAgELMAEAAAAZAAAAU01UUDpILUNPU1RVTUVASU5EUkEu Q09NAAAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABQAAABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAIB 918BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGgtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRyYS5jb20AU01U UABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAAAAAMA/V8BAAAAAwD/XwAAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAC 2VQBBIABABoAAABSRTogSC1DT1NUOiBXb29sIFF1ZXN0aW9uABIIAQWAAwAOAAAAzwcJAAkADAAN ACAABAAlAQEggAMADgAAAM8HCQAJAAwACwAVAAQAGAEBCYABACEAAABCM0ZDNjVBMUFDNjZEMzEx OEMxQTAwQTAyNDkwMUFGNAAdBwEDkAYAzAYAACEAAAALAAIAAQAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAAL ACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAgDLepOb6vgEeAHAAAQAAABoAAABSRTogSC1DT1NU OiBXb29sIFF1ZXN0aW9uAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb765qTNoWX8tGasEdOMGgCgJJAa9AAAHgAe DAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAAAAAeAB8MAQAAABoAAABjYXJyaWVAZ3JlYXRlcmFsY2hlbXkubmV0AAAA AwAGEMhF/qEDAAcQ4wIAAB4ACBABAAAAZQAAAElUT08sV0FTSlVTVE5PV0ZBTlRBU0laSU5HQUJP VVRIQVZJTkdUSEFUTVVDSFdPTkRFUkZVTFdPT0xUT1BMQVlXSVRISVNUSEVSRUFTVVBQT1JUR1JP VVA/Oy1DQVJSSUUtUE8AAAAAAgEJEAEAAACmAwAAogMAAB8FAABMWkZ11USNOAMACgByY3BnMTI1 FjIA+Atgbg4QMDMznQH3IAKkA+MCAGNoCsBgc2V0MCAHEwKAfbMKgAjIIDsJbw4wNQKAGQqBdWMA UAsDbGkzijYBQGMAQXVsbgIgAmULpiBJIHRvbxAsIHdhBCBqdXN3BUAVwAfgZgBwAZAAkHp5C4Bn IAGgCGAFQBEAdq0YUnQRAAVAbRRwaBbwewIgBIFmFaAZ8QbwFqEg1QtReRbwaRlgLhuwBAALGVEE kGUYgCBzdXAacAkRIAnACGBwPyC5EsAtPgqiCoQKgEMKwK8IgR3KFVEBQHADYHQFkLEFQC1Qbxdg BJA6BdAbBJAIYGQccBwRIFRywQpQIG9mIEIFsBXAAnYEkCA8a2VsdEUHMEARMHJ2LhXgdD0duz4W gRjxHFAOMCB5/wsRBCAiERDyBaAHQB0BG0EtAHBkJSIlwm8FoCBicQNgd24uBgAbABaQa/8XkiTF BGAJcCRGGWEDoAnw3QhgZxugFoEXB3MbABwg5wCQAZACMCBkIeEa8SGCqHdlaSqQdCgQVxwg+wOg BaBtCrEJgBahJEYcIO8ZABtRLQMak3MW4BlgG+E+ZwGgCxELgBxQCQBva58EIARlGvEHgB1wOlwy cNUd2UEgQHUHQGwbUAuA8zIRMNBldiZRGWAdISqQ+ypAFQB6AaARQCoSIxAHgf0W4GYw4hqjFwIi kRtQGbPzIYIVwHJtHcQCEAXAIYL3MEAqkCKhYwtgBBAHkCgQfCBILwM0xBqjG+Q2QWefB4AsESIR IYIHcGFnC4DdGYBpAiAiAR3ESAbwM7C3GqEm8BFAYxuxHXBJIiDfJMIuMRl3KtEIYGwm8ADA/yLg HGEFoCAgEQE0MRbgHHDaaB0xcCLwJtEsHcQm0v81KTARGgAxEC9zOaAmQDFR/ziyFwA4MCKhLPAZ gBwhFuDrK4AyIXQJcHcwASbSHHD3AmAAcCLgdB3EOMJEQTiy9m0bUDVwZDoRHCAZ4EmxWi4dy3kC MDBAYR3ELdItSpsgTAIgZx3EIQ97IhkdxEIKwAIgG1AiEU3XP3BPoR7VSxhRZANwIgKeQQOgB2BP FR3KIF9TP+9UT1VfVjtSxVREUS8BLGH/MEIAwAMQGFIVABdgRmEJ8GdAogMRMfJhagWwUTFv5kAL gFBAYS4twVLFG3IbTdMHgXM80BxQVU5TAFVCU0NSSUJFATowLUNPU1RVTRZFHcQR8QBe4AAAAwAQ EAAAAAADABEQAAAAAAMAgBD/////QAAHMMAPTFbm+r4BQAAIMMAPTFbm+r4BCwAAgAggBgAAAAAA wAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAASACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABShQAAtw0AAB4ABYAI IAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFSFAAABAAAABAAAADguMAADAAaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA AAABhQAAAAAAAAsAD4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAQgAggBgAAAAAAwAAA AAAAAEYAAAAAEIUAAAAAAAADABGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAARhQAAAAAAAAMAFIAIIAYA AAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABiFAAAAAAAAHgAkgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAANoUAAAEAAAAB AAAAAAAAAB4AJYAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADeFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeACaACCAGAAAA AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA4hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUkU6IAAAAAADAA00/TcA AGWY ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEFAC0.BAA394A0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 12:48:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27876 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:48:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06625; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:04:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA14055 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:01:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay4.hawaii.edu (relay4.hawaii.edu [128.171.94.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA14034 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:01:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uhunix1.its.hawaii.edu ([128.171.44.6]) by relay4.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <373634(9)>; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:01:29 -1000 Received: from localhost by uhunix1.its.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <135724(10)>; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:01:17 -1000 Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 08:01:13 -1000 From: X-Sender: lisaleon@uhunix1 To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME , SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/Elizabethan corsets In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990908194513.00a47a30@saltmine.radix.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Thank you to all who sent suggestions on the corset "redistribution" problem, both personally and to the list. I have several things to try now. I have another question for when I get past that and finally start working on the Pelican gown. What method would you all suggest for the slashes in the sleeve head? I understand they were sometimes cut and waxed but I'm leaning toward facing each one. Even if some of them are slightly on the bias they look too long to just cut and leave as is. thanks, lisa Lisa Leong * <| lisaleon@hawaii.edu .^. * * .=.=.=. * * <| ^V V V^ <| \^ ^ ^/ | | \^ ^ ^/ | |^^^^| |^^^^| | | [] [] [] | | ":":":":...:":":":" | ~~~|________[oIo]________|~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:06:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27923 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:06:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09510; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:22:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA18243 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:20:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx2.io.com (IDENT:root@mx2.io.com [199.170.88.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18235 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:20:11 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by mx2.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA26822 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:20:06 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA07835 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:20:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:20:06 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Confederate Uniform Braid In-Reply-To: <37D7E77D.C66B6B9@zebra.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com My confederate buddie needs to know what rank your husband is. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Meribeth McCombs wrote: > Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 11:59:41 -0500 > From: Meribeth McCombs > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Confederate Uniform Braid > > > -Poster: Meribeth McCombs > > Hi all... > > I'm defering to the greater knowledge of the list to help this lurker > out of a jam. My husband needs his officer's frock coat finished by > Wednesday and I have no idea as to the type and width of the braid used > in the Austrian Knots on the Confederate frock coats. Can someone help > me out? Also, how was the stuff attached to the coats? > > Thanks.... > > MeriBeth > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:13:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27941 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:13:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10728; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:29:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20015 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:27:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail3.anet.net (mail3.anet.net [216.2.98.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19995 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:27:09 -0600 (MDT) From: rima@anet.net Received: from [216.2.96.19] (216.2.96.210) by mail3.anet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0); Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:34:13 -0800 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909090500.XAA00731@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:58:37 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #542 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rima@anet.net someone asked: >Does anyone have a good source for the busk closure pictured on the pattern >envelope? The most extensive collection of corset stuff I've EVER seen is at Richard the Thread. Floor to ceiling busks. check 'em out at http://richardthethread.com They also have the only Restoration era patterns I've ever seen. Rima _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:13:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27945 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:13:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10733; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:29:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20029 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:27:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail3.anet.net (mail3.anet.net [216.2.98.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20023 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:27:15 -0600 (MDT) From: rima@anet.net Received: from [216.2.96.19] (216.2.96.210) by mail3.anet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0); Thu, 9 Sep 1999 10:34:13 -0800 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909090926.DAA19913@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:16:00 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #543 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rima@anet.net >My next project is an Italian Renaissance 'camisa {spelling?], undergown, and overgown. I have med.-dk. blue cotton velveteen [easy to >work with, natural fiber, &c.] for the overgown. I intend to make the chemise of the finest linen I can find. Anyone care to suggest an >appropriate fabric for the undergown and appropriate trim? I was thinking possibly of a cream color...maybe brocade? When did moire became >fashionable--not until much later, did it? And might be too lightweight? I live in an area known for getting up to 110 degrees F. in the summer >sometimes [it's now in the 90's daily], and down as far as the 60's-70's evenings. Or in the wintertime between [degrees F. again] 40's - freezing. > For any suggestions, thank you in advance for lending your expertise to >my cause. -- Carol / Gra/inne I've done a bunch of Italian Renaissance gowns with tie-on sleeves, so you can lose 'em in the summer. If you can find really fine linen for the undergown, you won't roast too badly. I've also been toying with doing two sets of sleeves for the same gown - one with full length lace-up sleeves, and the other with the segemented sleeves, which might be cooler, even if they're long. Might work for you, Carol! Rima _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:15:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27952 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:15:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11324; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:31:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20553 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:29:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com (ms3.phoenix.com [134.122.1.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA20539 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:29:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:33:10 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Corsets w/ straps, 1886 bustle Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:28:30 -0700 Message-ID: <000001befaf1$1f954090$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" Just joined the list yesterday - back again after a many years hiatus - only to find it's de-lurk day. >What's next? The 1886 mega-bustle gown. For dancing, of course. Here's the question. Having looked at "Corsets & Crinolines", Cunnington's Brief History, and other books on unmentionables, I see no bustle specifically for the "chicken butt" look. Here's the question: What makes the upward pointy bit? Is it a mound of draping that's part of the dress? An extra appliance or padding added to the typical bustle? Some arcane bustle contraption that is so atypical that surveys dont include it? I have an vintage 1886 pattern and "the mound of draping" answer is not allowed for in the cut/layout/hang. Your helpful hints on books, pics, mags & lit to reference graciously accepted. >Corsets w/ straps The straps are there in the early corset as the corsets are built in the flat & are short waisted. The straps help them stay up where they should be, doing the job they should be doing. 19th c corsets, w/ curves & waistlines dont tend to ride up or down - no strap needed. If your 19th c corset does shift, chances are it doesnt fit or there is an imbalance in the way it's tied.) Likely I'm repeating something somebody said earlier, before I was on the digest list. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:17:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27967 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:17:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11710; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:33:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20854 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:31:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sisscoe.sisnet.ssku.k12.ca.us (sisscoe.sisnet.ssku.k12.ca.us [198.189.71.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20843 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brown (jackson3 [198.189.103.3]) by sisscoe.sisnet.ssku.k12.ca.us (8.8.8/(Not!)) with SMTP id LAA01109 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:30:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990909113026.007b1860@sisnet.ssku.k12.ca.us> X-Sender: cbrown@sisnet.ssku.k12.ca.us X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 11:30:26 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Cindy Brown Subject: H-COST: Happy List Member Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cindy Brown Hello... I've asked a number of questions during the past 2 years and have always been dazzled by the brilliant answers and suggestions. A lurker? Yes. An active list user? That, too. Thanks to all of you. I read the messages daily! Cindy Brown Costume Mistress Siskiyou Performing Arts Center _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:24:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27995 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:24:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13068; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:40:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22476 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:37:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22469 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:37:57 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnoraK@aol.com Received: from AnnoraK@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6EAFa07546 (4339) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3aee1306.25095853@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:37:07 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep!/Laughing Moon To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnoraK@aol.com In keeping with today's theme, another introvert ventures out with a comment. :-) Re: Georgia's question about the Laughing Moon corset pattern -- I built my first corset last month using this pattern. I made the Dore Straight Seam out of coutil, with an outside layer of moire. I followed their suggestions of making a muslin and doing two test fittings. I had to trim back the underarm areas about 1/2" - 3/4", but other than that, it went together smoothly and easily, even with feline interference. But, then I was sorta paranoid about screwing the whole thing up, so did everything by the rules, tracing out all lines and markings and all the other stuff that I usually don't do with the rest of my projects. One suggestion, though -- trace out the pattern onto butcher paper, if you weren't planning to already. --Jen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:24:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27999 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:24:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13233; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:41:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22682 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:38:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.zebra.net (mail.zebra.net [209.12.13.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22670 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:38:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zebra.net ([209.12.15.97]) by mail.zebra.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with ESMTP id net; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:34:10 -0500 Message-ID: <37D7FEBB.334D830F@zebra.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:38:51 -0500 From: Meribeth McCombs X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com, ches@io.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Confederate Uniform Braid References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Meribeth McCombs Hi... he's a colonel. MeriBeth ches@io.com wrote: > > -Poster: ches@io.com > > My confederate buddie needs to know what rank your husband is. > > Sincerely, > F. Havas > ches@io.com > > On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Meribeth McCombs wrote: > > > Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 11:59:41 -0500 > > From: Meribeth McCombs > > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > Subject: H-COST: Confederate Uniform Braid > > > > > > -Poster: Meribeth McCombs > > > > Hi all... > > > > I'm defering to the greater knowledge of the list to help this lurker > > out of a jam. My husband needs his officer's frock coat finished by > > Wednesday and I have no idea as to the type and width of the braid used > > in the Austrian Knots on the Confederate frock coats. Can someone help > > me out? Also, how was the stuff attached to the coats? > > > > Thanks.... > > > > MeriBeth > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:29:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28007 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:29:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA14479; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:46:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23907 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:44:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23895 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:44:08 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnoraK@aol.com Received: from AnnoraK@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6UPMa28691 (4339) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:43:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2158ba6a.250959c6@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:43:18 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep!/Laughing Moon To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnoraK@aol.com Supplies! Duh! *smacks head* I knew I forgot something! I got my supplies from Farthingale's. Busk (6 hook to answer Megan's question), bones, coutil, everything. I faxed the order out one evening, and Linda, the owner, called the next morning to let me know that one item was out of stock and to suggest alternatives. She then shipped it out that day and I had it in less than a week, start to finish. She's in Canada, so at first glance, the prices seem higher than other places, but for US customers, expect about a 30% discount off of what's listed because of the exchange rate. No affiliation, just a very satisfied customer, --Jen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:39:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28024 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:39:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16996; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:56:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26433 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:54:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.vci.net (smtp.vci.net [207.162.160.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26417 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vci.net (ppp-169-82.vci.net [207.162.169.82]) by smtp.vci.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA22331 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:53:56 -0500 Message-ID: <37D802F4.C622B502@vci.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:56:52 -0500 From: "schuck@vci.net" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr-FR,de,ru,es-AR,sv MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #546 References: <199909091831.MAA20874@net.indra.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------34B77FF0E4AE2301DB74B51B" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "schuck@vci.net" --------------34B77FF0E4AE2301DB74B51B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone had any experience with Richard the Threads patterns? It's quite hard to tell from the drawings what the finished product is supposed to look like (at least to me). I want to make sure that the patterns I buy are as historically accurate as possible, since I don't yet know enough to alter patterns for accuracy. Thanks for your help, folks! Julie schuck@vci.net The most extensive collection of corset stuff I've EVER seen is at Richard the Thread. Floor to ceiling busks. check 'em out at http://richardthethread.com They also have the only Restoration era patterns I've ever seen. --------------34B77FF0E4AE2301DB74B51B Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Has anyone had any experience with Richard the Threads patterns? It's quite hard to tell from the drawings what the finished product is supposed to look like (at least to me). I want to make sure that the patterns I buy are as historically accurate as possible, since I don't yet know enough to alter patterns for accuracy. Thanks for your help, folks!

Julie
schuck@vci.net

The most extensive collection of corset stuff I've EVER seen is at Richard
the Thread.   Floor to ceiling busks.

check 'em out at http://richardthethread.com

They also have the only Restoration era patterns I've ever seen. --------------34B77FF0E4AE2301DB74B51B-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:41:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28031 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:41:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17633; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:58:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26908 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:56:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA26884 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:56:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.405) with smtp for sender: id ; Thu, 9 Sep 99 13:56:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <016401befaf4$86fc52c0$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep! Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:52:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" Well, I have made that type of skirted jerkin and it is easy....god forbid I should state this but the jerkin pattern in the tudor medieval miscalliany is pretty good. Just don't bother with the instructions. As for the doublets in this era they are basically the same as a later period doublet but without the skirting or tabs on the bottom. Although, skirting comes in with the transitional clothes. If this is not enough information let me know. Carol Ross -----Original Message----- From: V. Renee Bedford To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 8:50 AM Subject: H-COST: OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep! -Poster: "V. Renee Bedford" Carol, love it..."I lurk; therefore, I am!" So here's my delurking question: Can anyone refer me to (especially men's) Tudor commercial patterns? I'm no historian, and certainly don't have the huevos to call myself a costumer, but am under the impression that most available are Elizabethan. Specifically, I haven't found a pattern for the low-neck skirted jerkin worn over a doublet, a la Henry's VIII's Holbein portrait. There, that wasn't so hard! Thanks, Renée (on digest) _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:46:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28039 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:46:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18544; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:02:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27730 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:59:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from satsuma.mail.easynet.net (satsuma.mail.easynet.net [195.40.1.44]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27723 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:59:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (tnt-1-73.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.73]) by satsuma.mail.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9BB647B2FE for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:59:44 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.19990909195700.007a5e80@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk> X-Sender: gj.hadfield@pop-3.ukonline.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:57:00 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Graham Hadfield Subject: Re: H-COST: Thursday, 9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day In-Reply-To: <990909083320.15a4@lib.uttyl.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Graham Hadfield Another one delurking Although I don't post questions, I don't think I am much of an introvert. I once travelled to London from the North East of England in full 17th Century kit, with my 20 year old son who's a musketeer - on the bus - (didn't have time to change when we got there) nobody turned a hair - just like the English - they just pretend that you're normal. The following year we used the train, it was faster. It's fun wandering round the Tower in kit and watching the faces of the tourists. Jill Sir Thomas Tyldesley's Regiment of Foote Kings Army English Civil War Society _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:46:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28046 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:46:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18847; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:03:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28023 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:00:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from olympus.cs.uwyo.edu (olympus.cs.uwyo.edu [129.72.216.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28013 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:00:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (hill@localhost) by olympus.cs.uwyo.edu (980427.SGI.8.8.8/980728.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP id NAA23996 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:00:52 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:00:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Robin Hill X-Sender: hill@olympus.cs.uwyo.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Another lurker outed. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Hill I never post to H-COSTUME because I never make historical costume (unlike the other Robin, who contributes her expertise here). Saving that for retirement, or free time, or carriage to a higher plane, whichever comes first. But I sew extensively and sure enjoy hearing about historical details and techniques. I did sew my own doctoral hood, after drafting my own pattern, after doing weeks of absorbing research on academic regalia. I still make the pattern available to anyone who wants to pay the cost of copying and postage. --- Robin Hill hill@uwyo.edu (307)766-5289 Department of Computer Science, University of Wyoming _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 13:51:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28059 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:51:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20125; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:07:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA29118 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:05:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29107 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:05:27 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnoraK@aol.com Received: from AnnoraK@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6HTWa01404 (4339) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:04:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <324ebbc8.25095ec5@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:04:37 EDT Subject: H-COST: Med Misc/Period Patts for Guys To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnoraK@aol.com Oh, my! My third post in one day! The discussion of the MM/PP Tudor pattern made me remember a question I have. How are the MM/PP men's patterns for fit? Are they as bad as the women's? Specifically, I'm looking for input on the cotehardie pattern. My blossoming garb-sl*t of a fiance picked the thing up at VA Ren Faire and would like one for fall. Thanks! --Jen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 14:01:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28091 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:01:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22890; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01526 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:14:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01518 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:14:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from martha (209-122-225-86.s86.tnt1.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.225.86]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA29229 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:14:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001601befaf3$dc3dff00$56e17ad1@martha> From: "Martha Kelly" To: References: <37D734B3.EFDF1AA6@mb.sympatico.ca> <00ba01befa80$489f2620$b6973018@pbc.adelphia.net> Subject: H-COST: To Erica re. "drawer tucking" Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:48:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BEFAD2.535F8E40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Martha Kelly" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BEFAD2.535F8E40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In "The Undercover Story," a beautiful show catalogue from FIT in 1982, = on page 100 (in case you have the book) is a picture of a French lady of = 1870 in the very ACT of tucking. (Tucking, I said! Somehow that looks = awful when written.) In the same book (page 105) a French postcard of = 1900 shows the same procedure. In "20,000 Years of Fashion" by Boucher = see illustrations 1085 and 1090 (page 403 in my edition.) The drawers of = the lady in the blue corset (Manet 1877) look so full you have to = believe it's because of a tucked chemise rather than just combinations. = It seems all my examples are French. Does this help? Martha (I just joined, so am I a lurker?) That reminds me of an unanswered question that a few of us were = discussing on another list awhile back (can't remember which one). The = question was something to the effect of did women of late 1800's (1880's = or 90's) tuck their chemise into their drawers, or leave them out? One = poster insisted that they left them out, although I saw a picture of a = chemise tucked into the drawers in one of my books. Was it the option = of the wearer or was there a trend? The poster with the question wanted = actual documentation. I am interested to know the answer to this from = someone with more expertise on the subject. Don't mean to put you on the = spot, Dianne. This question is open to anyone with a comment. =20 Thanks! =20 Erica Pence Robes of Antiquity www.robesofantiquity.com Online store coming soon! ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BEFAD2.535F8E40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In "The Undercover Story,"  a = beautiful show=20 catalogue from FIT in 1982, on page 100 (in case you have the book) is a = picture=20 of a French lady of 1870 in the very ACT of tucking. (Tucking, I said!=20 Somehow that looks awful when written.) In the same book (page 105) = a=20 French postcard of 1900 shows the same procedure. In "20,000 Years of = Fashion"=20 by Boucher see illustrations 1085 and 1090 (page 403 in my edition.) The = drawers=20 of the lady in the blue corset (Manet 1877) look so full you have to = believe=20 it's because of a tucked chemise rather than just combinations. It seems = all my=20 examples are French. Does this help?
 
Martha  (I just joined, so am I a=20 lurker?)
 
 That reminds me of an unanswered question = that a few=20 of us were discussing on another list awhile back (can't remember = which=20 one).  The question was something to the effect of did women of = late=20 1800's (1880's or 90's) tuck their chemise into their drawers, or = leave them=20 out?  One poster insisted that they left them out, although I saw = a=20 picture of a chemise tucked into the drawers in one of my = books. =20 Was it the option of the wearer or was there a trend?  The poster = with=20 the question wanted actual documentation.   I am = interested to=20 know the answer to this from someone with more expertise on the = subject. Don't=20 mean to put you on the spot, Dianne.  This question is open to = anyone=20 with a comment. 
 
Thanks! 
 
Erica Pence
Robes of Antiquity
www.robesofantiquity.com
= Online=20 store coming soon!
------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BEFAD2.535F8E40-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 14:09:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28135 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:09:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24660; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:25:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03325 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:23:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03317 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:23:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xohgoynt ([62.252.38.43]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990909192213.DFYM9244.mta2-svc@xohgoynt> for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:22:13 +0100 Message-ID: <015a01befaf7$5e86a0e0$2b26fc3e@xohgoynt> From: "emma smith" To: Subject: H-COST: Lurking Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:08:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "emma smith" Hi all As it's non-lurking day on the list...here I am My name's Emma & I live in Stratford-upon-Avon in England. I love the list and get lots out of it without ften finding the to post myself. I make Tudor & medieval kit for myself and my partner & our friends who are involved in re-enactment in England - it's a growing line at the moment. I've only been doing this for a few years, but before that I made theatre costumes & made modern clothes so i've done a bit of sewing. The re-enactment group I belong to spends 3 whole weeks in kit every summer living as Tudors (until the punters go home!) so all clothing has to be as accurate as possible & stand up to being worked in. And I do mean work. I work with horses - cart horses as well as riding horses and my partner is an archer so the clothes have to be really sturdy - nothing worse than splitting your hose as you bend down! I've got lots of stuff out of lurking & will continue to do so - posting as and when. If that's all right. I'm not an introvert either, just tired at the end of the day. Good things Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 14:13:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28156 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:13:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25537; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:29:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA04656 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:27:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA04645 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:27:30 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990909192858.7218.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 12:28:58 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:28:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: To Erica re. "drawer tucking" To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Alright! I just can't STAND it anymore! There is NO WAY I can keep my mouth shut for a WHOLE DAY! *phew* I feel better. I actually have a very important question that has a time constraint, or I would have kept quiet until tomorrow... I bought the 1920's hat pattern from Past Patterns... I made the large size, and it is too small for my head! Argh! Has anyone used this pattern? If so, did you run into this problem, and how did you fix it? Please help... we are putting on a 1920's coctail party on Saturday night and I REALLY need this. Oh, and thanks for the laugh. > in the very ACT of tucking. (Tucking, I said! > Somehow that looks awful when written.) In the same Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 14:41:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28329 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:41:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00209; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:56:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA11059 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:54:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.greatbasin.net (mail.greatbasin.net [207.228.35.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11044 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dfenwick (virt228.virtual.state.nv.us [167.154.2.28]) by mail.greatbasin.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA09939 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:53:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004601befafc$bda51d90$fe0110ac@akc.state.nv.us> From: "Dan Fenwick" To: References: <324ebbc8.25095ec5@aol.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Med Misc/Period Patts for Guys Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:51:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Dan Fenwick" > Oh, my! My third post in one day! The discussion of the MM/PP Tudor pattern > made me remember a question I have. How are the MM/PP men's patterns for > fit? Are they as bad as the women's? Specifically, I'm looking for input on > the cotehardie pattern. My blossoming garb-sl*t of a fiance picked the thing > up at VA Ren Faire and would like one for fall. I have it, somewhere. It's terrible unless you are good at taking measurements and then adjusting the pattern to suit. It is also not period as the sleeve is made like a modern suit sleeve so you can't raise your arm without raising the entire coat. Not a good situation if you use one of the period methods of holding the hose up (tying them to the coat.) Dan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 14:45:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28342 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:45:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01602; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:02:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12592 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:59:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12581 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:59:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.174] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11PAMI-0004fm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:59:50 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 12:57:57 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: RE: H-COST: Wool Question In-Reply-To: <01BEFAC0.BAA394A0@ELEMENTAL> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 12:13 PM 09/09/1999 -0500, you wrote: >I too, was just now fantasizing about having that much wonderful wool to play with...is there a support group? ;-> > >Carrie Right here, I suspect...although this is kind of a combo all-in-one 'get you out of trouble', 'get you into trouble' kinda place. :-) Carol, who must admit to sudden surges of fabric/attire lust while reading this group...and has been very grateful to all those who have answered my questions and lent their expertise to my need... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 14:47:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28346 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:47:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01867; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:03:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA13085 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:01:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailhub.iastate.edu (mailhub.iastate.edu [129.186.1.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13073 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:01:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from H59013.iastate.edu (costumes.center.iastate.edu [129.186.127.4]) by mailhub.iastate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA14774 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:01:26 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <4.1.19990909145811.00941af0@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> X-Sender: djnash@djnash.mail.iastate.edu (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:01:21 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Doris J Nash Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #543 In-Reply-To: References: <199909090926.DAA19913@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Doris J Nash At 11:16 AM 9/9/99 -0700, you wrote: > >I've done a bunch of Italian Renaissance gowns with tie-on sleeves, so you >can lose 'em in the summer. If you can find really fine linen for the >undergown, you won't roast too badly. > >I've also been toying with doing two sets of sleeves for the same gown - >one with full length lace-up sleeves, and the other with the segemented >sleeves, which might be cooler, even if they're long. > >Might work for you, Carol! > >Rima I agree! My only Italian Ren gown is golden yellow brocade with wine-colored trim, and I made 2 different sleeves to tie on, as well as a set of cuffs, for *really* hot weather, and I love it. It's nearly as fun as having 2 or 3 different gowns, but with only a fraction of the work! Doris, de-lurking for the second time in a week! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 14:51:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28374 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:51:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02577; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:07:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA14070 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:05:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14063 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:05:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-172-34.01.promedia.net [209.160.172.34]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA22841 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:05:11 -0700 Message-ID: <005701befafe$f059b280$22aca0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: Shoe dyeing question Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:07:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" I have a pair of black shoes made from that God-awful, man-made suede stuff that makes your feet sweat, and I need to change to color to red. Does anyone know if there is a way I can dye or paint this type of material without ruining it? Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 14:56:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28381 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:56:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03803; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:13:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA15589 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:11:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from falcon.canfield.com (falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15536 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deathstar (deathstar.canfield.com [206.191.139.22]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA25720 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:17:35 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990909130444.009908b0@mail.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslie@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:07:28 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: Moorish/Middle Eastern question In-Reply-To: <199909091831.MAA20874@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Leslie Helms Could the person who asked about Moorish and related costuming please write me offlist? I have some good info and class notes, but am too swamped right now to dig them out... and I'll forget in a few hours if not prodded... Leslie leslie@canfield.com "And then you ease this piece into the... um... what was I talking about? What is this fabric doing in my hands?" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 14:57:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28385 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:57:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03825; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:13:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA15581 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:11:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from falcon.canfield.com (falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15533 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deathstar (deathstar.canfield.com [206.191.139.22]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA25717 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:17:35 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990909125954.00998100@mail.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslie@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:02:00 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: Re: Thank You WAS Re: Wool In-Reply-To: <199909091831.MAA20874@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Leslie Helms Kyna wrote: < Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28410 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:09:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06182; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:26:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18917 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:23:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18315 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:21:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id NAA04593; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:21:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37D81704.624B32D8@serv.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:22:29 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoe dyeing question References: <005701befafe$f059b280$22aca0d1@j9g8x8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > I have a pair of black shoes made from that God-awful, man-made suede stuff > that makes your feet sweat, and I need to change to color to red. Does > anyone know if there is a way I can dye or paint this type of material > without ruining it? wow. I suspect you are stuck with black shoes. Not because of the fabric/materials but because once something is black, it's pretty much black for life. Unless you have bleach and then it's probably going to be gray. I could, of course, be mistaken about this. You could certainly paint it with a paint that would cover it but the paint would probably ruin the shoes in the end. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 15:18:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28423 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:18:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08172; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:34:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21242 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:31:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA21235 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:31:53 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909092031.OAA21235@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 16163 invoked from network); 9 Sep 1999 14:31:50 -0600 Received: from ts26-31.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.145) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 9 Sep 1999 14:31:50 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep!/Laughing Moon Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:37:24 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" Farthingales? e-mail addy? snail mail addy? More information, please. Kathlene ---------- > From: AnnoraK@aol.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep!/Laughing Moon > Date: Thursday, September 09, 1999 12:43 PM > > > -Poster: AnnoraK@aol.com > > Supplies! Duh! *smacks head* I knew I forgot something! I got my supplies > from Farthingale's. Busk (6 hook to answer Megan's question), bones, coutil, > everything. I faxed the order out one evening, and Linda, the owner, called > the next morning to let me know that one item was out of stock and to suggest > alternatives. She then shipped it out that day and I had it in less than a > week, start to finish. > > She's in Canada, so at first glance, the prices seem higher than other > places, but for US customers, expect about a 30% discount off of what's > listed because of the exchange rate. > > No affiliation, just a very satisfied customer, > --Jen > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 15:29:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28433 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:29:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10046; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:45:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24206 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:43:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail3.anet.net (mail3.anet.net [216.2.98.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24196 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:43:17 -0600 (MDT) From: rima@anet.net Received: from [216.2.96.55] (216.2.96.240) by mail3.anet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0); Thu, 9 Sep 1999 12:50:11 -0800 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909091954.NAA11155@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:23:05 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #547 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rima@anet.net Julie asks: >Has anyone had any experience with Richard the Threads patterns? It's >quite hard to tell from the drawings what the >finished product is supposed to look like (at least to me). I want to make >sure that the patterns I buy are as >historically accurate as possible, since I don't yet know enough to alter >patterns for accuracy. Thanks for your help, >folks! I just bought Restoration Man and built myself the coat. OK, so the pattern's sized for a man (and I'm a lady) and their instructions STINK. Patterns are intended for professional costumers (which I am NOT) who already know what they're doing. Having said all that, it worked pretty well. I used leftover fabric from two curtain projects - yummy green brocade lined with greenish gold silk dupioni - so now I know what changes to make when I'm actually spending money on fabric. BTW, when I tried to buy this pattern at Alter Years, they wanted $60 because it was "special order". So when I found RTT on the web and discovered they were a mere 1/2 mile from me, I called them directly. They print the patterns to order, so they need a little notice, but I paid $32 instead of $60. This is also the project where I learned that (in the garmet district, anyway) it's cheaper to buy a gross of buttons than it is to buy 50 of 'em. ;-D Hope this helps. Rima _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 15:36:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28439 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:36:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10962; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:52:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25761 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:50:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25747 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:50:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990909205023.XFHA16271.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:50:23 -0700 Message-ID: <37D81DA2.BF5320CB@home.com> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:50:42 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #543 References: <199909090926.DAA19913@net.indra.com> <4.1.19990909145811.00941af0@djnash.mail.iastate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent I make tie-on sleeves for both Ren & Tudor....it can totally change the look of an outfit and it allows you to just take the things off when it gets waaaaaaaay too hot or to give one as a favor to a fighter. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 15:40:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28448 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:40:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11495; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:57:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26859 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:55:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26852 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:55:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990909205505.XGRT16271.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 13:55:05 -0700 Message-ID: <37D81EBB.8ADB1534@home.com> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:55:24 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Med Misc/Period Patts for Guys References: <324ebbc8.25095ec5@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent AnnoraK@aol.com wrote: > > Oh, my! My third post in one day! The discussion of the MM/PP Tudor > pattern made me remember a question I have. How are the MM/PP men's > patterns for fit? Are they as bad as the women's? Specifically, I'm > looking for input on the cotehardie pattern. My blossoming garb-sl*t > of a fiance picked the thing up at VA Ren Faire and would like one for > fall. The Laurel of the Household when I was in SCA used both the men's cotehardie pattern and the tunic pattern from MM and didn't have any trouble...otoh she *always* made the inital one out of muslin and then adjusted the butcher paper pattern to fit (an easy way to do this is to pin and then cut out your seam allowance past the pins...or at least, that's what *I* do! ). She told me to never, ever read the instructions because they read like Greek (assuming one does not speak nor read Greek), just look at the pictures and never, ever cut the pattern...use butcher paper or newsprint or opened out paper bags etc to make the pattern pieces (and make sure you put the date and measurements of the person on the piece as well as the piece number) then when you've got it fitted properly and the pattern adjusted, shove it in a manila envelope with the date, person's name, pattern type etc. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 15:41:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28452 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:41:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11498; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:57:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23894 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:42:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailhost.neaccess.net (mailhost.neaccess.net [204.255.214.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23868 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:41:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dkenton (camb0344.capecod.net [209.244.245.90]) by mailhost.neaccess.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id QAA28347 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:41:52 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990909164122.00da6094@neaccess.net> X-Sender: kenton@neaccess.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 16:41:22 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Donna Kenton Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #542 In-Reply-To: References: <199909090500.XAA00731@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Donna Kenton >The most extensive collection of corset stuff I've EVER seen is at Richard >the Thread. Floor to ceiling busks. Only because we're de-lurking today.... I read that, and immediately pictured busks about 10 feet long. And that's why I generally lurk... :) Donna Kenton Visit my web page! http://www.dabbler.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 15:45:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28457 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:45:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12354; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27849 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:59:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.mts.net (smtp1.mts.net [205.200.16.74]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27837 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 14:59:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mb.sympatico.ca (wnpgas06-p70.mts.net [205.200.54.228]) by smtp1.mts.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA00891 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:58:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37D81FB4.8FF332AD@mb.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:59:32 -0500 From: Dianne Kristoff X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-SYMPA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Farthingales Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dianne Kristoff To "K & J Hopkins" Farthingales web address is ..... farthingales.on.ca It is a Canadian company from which I have had excellent service in the past. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 15:47:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28469 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:47:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12502; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:02:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28107 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:00:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28095 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:00:27 -0600 (MDT) From: Natekakar@aol.com Received: from Natekakar@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6YPYa01987 (4339) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:59:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <265851b2.250979c5@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:59:49 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST:De-Lurking To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) sub 7 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Natekakar@aol.com Lurking? I've been accused of lurching (and even lunching!), on occasion, but lurking?...... I don't contribute much for several reasons -- 1) I don't have a great deal of time to spend on-line, and most of that time is taken up just READING the messages...... 2) Most of the messages aren't dealing with timeframes or garments I have much knowledge about or interest in...... 3) Frequently, when I DO find something that I could respond to --- I go down several more messages and find that someone has already answered it! K. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 15:47:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28473 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:47:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12466; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:02:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28042 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:00:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from na-ims.alcoa.com ([147.154.3.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28018 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:00:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by NA-IMS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:59:41 -0400 Message-ID: <0B3E3AA67456D311A9FC0000E889ED9809F489@dhcp-183-2.dpw.alcoa.com> From: "Fairchild, Connie E." To: "'h-costume-digest@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Another one delurking Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:54:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Fairchild, Connie E." Extrovert - introvert both at the same time! Always with an interest in costume, I am just within the last couple of years getting to put it in practice (beyond those Halloween costumes). My adult daughter is a volunteer at an Abraham Lincoln site and I've been doing research and sewing her outfits from the 1830-1840's. I've really enjoyed the discussion on altering patterns for the modern figure and graphing from books. I've been sewing since childhood, but finding it very rewarding now that I'm working on these outfits and have gained the courage to experiment with the style and fitting. I collect old photos (tintypes, etc.) for the fashions, books, patterns, fashion magazines (pre-1915 but occasionally 1930's - 50's, just because...) and old sewing machines too. Would love to take some costuming classes someday. Enjoy combining needlework with the early 19th century clothing and accessories. Since I'm not involved in SGA, I too have to look up definitions and work to understand what is being discussed, but enjoy searching my art books and modern copy of the Book of Hours to see the clothing that is mentioned. I have nothing to add to these discussions, but enjoy reading them. I too, am on the digest so questions are most often already answered by the time I read them. I see several familiar names on some of the other lists that I'm on: h-needlework; sewinghistoric; vintage clothing Keep up the fun. Scotty, back to cloaking. Connie Fairchild _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 15:48:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28480 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:48:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12994; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:05:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28576 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:02:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailhost.neaccess.net (mailhost.neaccess.net [204.255.214.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28560 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:02:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dkenton (camb0344.capecod.net [209.244.245.90]) by mailhost.neaccess.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id RAA28913 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:02:20 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990909170149.00d32f18@neaccess.net> X-Sender: kenton@neaccess.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 17:01:49 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Donna Kenton Subject: Re: H-COST: Med Misc/Period Patts for Guys In-Reply-To: <37D81EBB.8ADB1534@home.com> References: <324ebbc8.25095ec5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Donna Kenton >otoh she *always* made the inital one out of muslin and then >adjusted the butcher paper pattern to fit A trick I learned was to make the initial one out of gingham. Make sure it's the woven check, not the printed one. It's more expensive than muslin, but you can see the grain lines so much easier, which makes it easier for me to use. Donna Kenton Visit my web page! http://www.dabbler.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 16:30:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28605 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:30:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19712; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:47:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA09179 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:44:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09163 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:44:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (d-ma-superpop-2-28.ici.net [207.180.42.28]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA03911 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:43:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909092143.RAA03911@bajor.ici.net> Subject: H-COST: Re: Lurkers Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:44:14 -0400 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id PAA09168 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Irene leNoir I suppose I qualify as a lurker, even though I don't really think of myself as one. I've been on the list about two years now. I read the messages every day, but I have to admit that I mass-delete a lot of threads that focus on times/topics outside my area of interest. (I'm in the SCA and I focus on early 15th Century France.) Part of the reason is that I just get too much mail to read every thread. The other part is that I've cultivated an active avoidance of anything that might encourage me to pick up a new hobby or conceive a new project. I already have 2000 yards of fabric in my sewing room and an idea list that gets added to quicker than I can complete the projects that are already on it. :-) I do occassionally post a question, and am always pleased with the knowledge level of the people on this list. I have also been known to respond to other people's posts, but 95% of the time I find that by the time I finish catching up with the most recent posts, someone else has already said exactly what I would have. Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 16:50:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28686 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:50:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22813; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:07:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA14250 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:04:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14243 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:04:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EK4WFDDS; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 18:03:03 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoe dyeing question Message-ID: <19990909.133918.4791.2.cley@juno.com> References: <005701befafe$f059b280$22aca0d1@j9g8x8> <37D81704.624B32D8@serv.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-5,7-10 From: cynthia j ley Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 18:03:03 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: cynthia j ley Would regular red leather dye work on this, I wonder? Maybe call a Tandy's or a shop which carries leather? Arlys >> I have a pair of black shoes made from that God-awful, man-made suede stuff >> that makes your feet sweat, and I need to change to color to red. >Does anyone know if there is a way I can dye or paint this type of >material without ruining it? ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 17:33:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28805 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:33:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28919; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:50:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA23931 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:47:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web112.yahoomail.com (web112.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.82]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA23922 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 16:47:50 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990909224633.7284.rocketmail@web112.yahoomail.com> Received: from [206.107.124.110] by web112.yahoomail.com; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 15:46:33 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 15:46:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Moonshadow Subject: Re: H-COST: Another lurker outed. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Moonshadow Hello List, I too am a lurker! I sew medieval period garb for my family as we are involved with the SCA. I am enjoying reading all the comments from the experts. Believe me, I have learned a lot. I used to sew just pillows and curtains, garb is so much more fun! We live near Knoxville, TN. My name is Dorothy 8^) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 17:45:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28813 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:45:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00794; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:02:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26488 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:00:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26463 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:00:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA16427 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:57:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00b901befb17$48f83c00$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:01:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! I fall somewhere in between "lurker" and "regular poster." This is partially because of time constraints, and partially because the period I study (11th-14th century European, with a big emphasis on the 13th century; although I also dabble in Norse and 16th century stuff) is not one of the ones which seems to attract as many enthusiasts (especially the 13th century, except for Henk, of course :-) I have recently turned into a handsewing addict. I've been spending time perfecting a 13th century dress design, and trying to figure out when I'm going to get a chance to try a 10-gore "Greenland" gown. My husband and I are in the midst of expanding our SCA merchanting business, and one of the things I want to offer is high-end, authentic "central Middle Ages" clothing--handsewn if people want it that way, with authentic patterning, finishing techniques, and trimmings. I'm always picking up tips and ideas from this list. I've just finished my doctorate in history, am getting ready for the great academic job hunt, and in the meantime am working as an admin. assistant at a bank. Susan Carroll-Clark _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 17:46:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28824 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:46:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00925; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:03:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26697 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:01:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f95.hotmail.com [207.82.250.201]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA26688 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:01:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 79180 invoked by uid 0); 9 Sep 1999 23:00:38 -0000 Message-ID: <19990909230038.79179.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.12.82.20 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 16:00:37 PDT X-Originating-IP: [206.12.82.20] From: "kris .." To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Thursday, 9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 16:00:37 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "kris .." >-Poster: Barbara Maren Winkler >On many paintings from the 1500s and 1600s, I noticed slashes in people's >clothes through which the undergarment showed. These slashes were sometimes >decorative (as for sleeves), but more often functional, to allow for ease >without shaping tight garments around the knee, elbow, the knuckles of >gloves, the hip, one time even the codpiece. Nowwhere was there an >indication that the edges of these slashes were cared for in any way (so as >not to fray). My theory is that outer garments were made of fulled wool, >which doesn't fray. I took an Ithra class (SCA) on late period clothing, and the instructor said many things :] I don't know if they're true or not, but here I go. If you slash the fabric perfectly diagonally (is this "on the bias?"), it shouldn't fray. Especially when you do it to tightly woven fabrics. Also, they didn't often *wash* their dress clothing, so the only way it would fray is through wear. And I don't think it was worn too often, either. At least, not every day. My teacher had some examples (ie. she made some clothes & passed them around) of slashed garments, and the slashes had only frayed about 1/4". Of course, if you take a look at some of the German paintings, and you see the slashes from shoulder to waist, I would say that they would have *had* to line them in some way. I haven't studied that, becauseit's in men's garments (what I've seen), and I'm only concerned about women's clothing :] HTH, or at least gives everyone something else to think about :] Kris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 17:49:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28828 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:49:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01361; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:06:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA27362 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:04:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net (svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.204]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27349 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:04:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem54.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.54] helo=herimats) by svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 11PDES-0001hh-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:03:57 +0100 Message-ID: <00a701befb17$9a02b1c0$36065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <005701befafe$f059b280$22aca0d1@j9g8x8> Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoe dyeing question Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:02:22 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" If its the stuff I think it is that we have in the UK called Nubuck a very thin sliver of real leather stuck to a polymer base and the roughes up to give a nap. Then the only thing that will work; stay for a while and not degrade the backing so that it shreds from the inside is;;;; believe it or not water colour paint , the proper artist stuff .. If the shoes have been worn and picked up any veneer of dirt things get a bit iffy so you may have to mix it with a water and avery small amount of acrylic medium; Mix the paint with lots of water and get it on quick in a big floos otherwise tyou get water stain edges. Two or three maybe more times; If its not nubuck it wont work, unless they are Hush puppies;;; different story altogether. avoid shoe dies the spirit will destroy them unoticeably but then very sudddenly as your foot warms them up , could be dangerous. However my only experince of this is starting with light colours and then making them dark; but you can usually turn them white by sweating a lot. So you have to start by buying a new pair of shoes; If its not nubuck its going to be a more manmade material its going to have various polymer bases so you have to watch with solvents but you might get away with car paint aerosols, short burst from a distance build up slowly ; too much solvent or propellant will make them peel; When finished let them dry properly and then go over them gently with a stiff wire brush to bring the nap up. still a long job. Hope this helps. Dave +++++++++++++++++++++ L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters ----- Original Message ----- From: Broneske To: H-Costume Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 9:07 PM Subject: H-COST: Shoe dyeing question > > -Poster: "Broneske" > > I have a pair of black shoes made from that God-awful, man-made suede stuff > that makes your feet sweat, and I need to change to color to red. Does > anyone know if there is a way I can dye or paint this type of material > without ruining it? > > > Joan Broneske > unicorn@softcom.net > @-->---------------- > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 18:20:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28853 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:20:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05809; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:37:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03725 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:35:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net (svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.204]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03712 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:35:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem2.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.130] helo=herimats) by svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 11PDid-0002O6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:35:07 +0100 Message-ID: <012901befb1b$f54485f0$36065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <199909090149_MC2-8418-E5B5@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Unlurking for 9-9-99 - long Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:32:21 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" > -Poster: Cat Devereaux > > I'll have to pop up a day early, because I'll be one of those computer > nerds baby-sitting the computers tomorrow for 9-9-99... Actualy have a few > things to respond to on the current list anyway. > Well I hope it went well. Its now 30 min into the day after and our systems even the older ones got though with out any glitches. As we were going to a lot of dancing around ,chanting and burning of incense we spent the 28 hour shift in costume, just in case we all would be looking for a new job today ; but every thing worked . Our Bbox, even, which usually goes down every night almost. so fromnow on we all should work in costume. Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 18:20:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28852 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:20:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05806; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:37:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03724 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:35:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net (svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.204]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03709 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:35:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem2.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.130] helo=herimats) by svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 11PDic-0002O6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:35:06 +0100 Message-ID: <012801befb1b$f49f6c50$36065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:23:13 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Have you found Dawn Wood at http://www.agesofelegance.com she does georgian plus wedding stuff as well as historical. To other listers that remember the thread long ago about superfine? she regularly buys from the factory so I will try and get her to remind me of the name of the place as a couple of you did ask me at the time. Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters > > -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" > . I've found a designer in the UK that makes very elaborate dresses (wedding/special ocassion) if I can't manage to make one myself I'll resort back to her I suppose. Her dresses are beautiful but you know there is always one thng about a dress that just doesn't seem right, whether it be colour or fabric, o! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 18:25:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28859 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:25:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06348; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:42:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04521 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:39:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop04.iname.net (pop04.iname.net [165.251.8.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04508 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:39:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from natasha (user121.internetwork.net [206.138.100.121]) by pop04.iname.net (8.9.0/8.8.0) with ESMTP id TAA10404 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:39:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199909091845130920.0085914E@mail.iname.com> In-Reply-To: <19990909230038.79179.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <19990909230038.79179.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.11 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 18:45:13 -0500 From: "Tara Stewart" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Thursday, 9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id RAA04511 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Tara Stewart" Heyla all. I'm a die-hard lurker on most lists, because I either a) never feel like I have anything to add (or it's been added already by the time I get around to it); or b) don't feel like adding it anyway after I get home from work. I'm here to read and learn. :) History is a major area of interest for me, and clothing is just another facet that I find interesting. I *love* reading some of the tangents that this list occasionally goes off on, and I have spent hours going over some of the links that have been posted. Now back to lurking mode, Tara ;) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 18:26:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28863 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:26:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06594; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:43:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04832 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:41:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net (svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.204]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04812 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:41:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem42.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.42] helo=herimats) by svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 11PDoa-0002W5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:41:16 +0100 Message-ID: <016f01befb1c$d10abaf0$36065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? Roman query Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:41:18 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Yvonne check out their website for weekly updates on this and other find; off hand it www.museumoflondon.com but you will find it through any search on London really easy. Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters > > -Poster: BlueMoonYD@aol.com > > I do have a question, though. When I was in London this summer, I was > told the Museum of London had just found the burial site of a noble Roman > woman circa 2nd century AD in Spitalfields. Has anyone heard anything more > about this? > Thanks for all the wonderful information! > Yvonne > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 18:26:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28867 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:26:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06585; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:43:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04797 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:41:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net (svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.204]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04782 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:41:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem42.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.42] helo=herimats) by svr-a-04.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 11PDoV-0002Vy-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:41:12 +0100 Message-ID: <016901befb1c$ce739550$36065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <3.0.5.32.19990909134602.00949340@130.149.12.212> Subject: Re: H-COST: Thursday, 9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:41:14 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" >-Poster: Barbara Maren Winkler > I am currently writing up my Ph.D. thesis (which is in _mining_, not >_costuming_) and don't have much _time_. I still have in my mind, when all >this is over and I'm awaiting my baby, to take up the idea again of a new >FAQ list. Barbara , Are you going to publish, will it be in English?; Mining history is a bit of a pet subject of mine.To bring this back on topic--- I did once have to research and provide some costumes for 17th century Cornish tin miners and brought out a very thin long out of print booklet. Dave +++++ L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 18:44:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28949 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:44:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08701; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:00:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA07593 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:58:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA07584 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:58:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Thu Sep 9 16:57:50 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 16:57:50 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.36.77 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" No I haven't tried her but I will look, thank you. The designer I found was Donna Salado. She has no official website but her collection s on..www,weddings.co.uk I think it is. Not sure I'll have to find it thanks for the suggestion though --- Ginnaphure ICQ# 41340093 "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." >Have you found Dawn Wood at http://www.agesofelegance.com she does georgian >plus wedding stuff as well as historical. >To other listers that remember the thread long ago about superfine? she >regularly buys from the factory so I will try and get her to remind me of >the name of the place as a couple of you did ask me at the time. >Dave >L.D.Mundy >Editor.Heritage Matters > >> >> -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" >> > . I've found a designer in the UK that makes very elaborate dresses >(wedding/special ocassion) if I can't manage to make one myself I'll resort >back to her I suppose. Her dresses are beautiful but you know there is >always one thng about a dress that just doesn't seem right, whether it be >colour or fabric, o! > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 18:46:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28963 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:46:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09074; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:02:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA07993 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:00:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07987 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:00:35 -0600 (MDT) From: dawn.wood1@virgin.net Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.58.188]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990909235939.BEBO11940.mta2-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:59:39 +0100 Message-ID: <37D8AFB0.73E3@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:13:52 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: (no subject) References: <19990907195640.DKXL3151.mta2-svc@mta2-svc.virgin.net> <37D7112B.2E3F@virgin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: dawn.wood1@virgin.net > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > >_______________________________________________________________________________ > > > Thanks Dave for introducing me so nicely, here's who I am I trained as a fashion designer and worked in industry in yorkshire for a while ( where I'm from) but > > > moved to London in 1986 to work at the costumiers Berman and Nathans, > > > I've worked on loads of films both i n house and freelance, I've also > > > worked at the Royal Opera House, taught costume making to drama students > > > and every now and again design a fringe show. I have been self employed > > > for 10 years next week and tend to live a frugal lifestyle as people > > > don't respect costume makers as a real job and expect you to do things > > > for peanuts as well as making it yesterday. In order to make a living > > > you nedd a partner who has a decent income as there aren't enough hours > > > in the day to sew. Unfortunately my other half is also selfemployed > > > making metalwork for unifroms etc.( His latest claim to fame is making > > > the head dresses for Amadala in Star Wars although he didn't know it > > > until the film came out as the contract was so tight He's also just > > > worked on Speilbergs Gladiators) so we starve together. I tend not to do > > > much film work anymore as I can't fit in quick orders as I'm booked up > > > 4-6 months in advance,last year I made the King of Norways 1608 > > > bodyguard which was a great honour. Unfortunately this doesn't leave > > > much time to make for me. My re-enactment group recently put on an 18thc > > > wedding and everyone had new frocks but me AND I helped them! I didn't > > > even have time to buy the fabric so haven't a five minute excuse to sit > > > down and do it now when I'm bored with uniforms. > > > I hope thats answered your questions and look forward to talking to you > > > all soon. > > www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 19:05:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29002 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:05:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10872; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:22:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11207 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:19:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11194 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:19:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.54.227.65] ([209.207.57.117]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA27195 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:19:15 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <005501befadb$4a43ed20$4caba0d1@j9g8x8> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:18:00 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: H-COST: Delurking Day Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler Wow! So _this_ is why I had 137 messages today! It's been fun to read about all the folks we never hear from, so here's my short-version bio: graduated a year ago with an MFA in costume design (undergrad in history) and am now working as a cutter/draper at a small regional theatre and designing on the side when possible. I've also finally gotten into the SCA, doing 16th century. Once I've updated my website (in a few months...) there will be pictures of that sort of thing. I've been off the list for a little over a year and now finally have the time to enjoy it once more. It's great to be back! I've been lurking so far, but I'm sure you'll hear from me again eventually. Melanie Schuessler (and sometimes Melisande) email to melanie@faucet.net or visit at http://www.faucet.net/costume _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 19:09:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29006 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:09:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11635; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:26:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11993 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:23:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web119.yahoomail.com (web119.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.120]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA11984 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:23:56 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990910002441.24923.rocketmail@web119.yahoomail.com> Received: from [63.21.254.68] by web119.yahoomail.com; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 17:24:41 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:24:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Kristen Morgaine Sieber Subject: H-COST: Hat for Simplicity Elizabethan To: SCA-Garb list , Historic Costume MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kristen Morgaine Sieber Okay, what goes on your head when wearing the Simplicity Elizabethan gown? And remember, I am not a hat maker! Thanks. === Morgaine of Glastonbury MKA Kristen Morgaine Sieber Barony of Aquaterra MoAS Kingdom of An Tir lady_gawain@yahoo.com What if the Hokey Pokey IS what it's all about? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 19:14:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29015 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:14:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12258; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:31:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA12721 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:29:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web108.yahoomail.com (web108.yahoomail.com [205.180.60.75]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA12700 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:29:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990910003042.16447.rocketmail@web108.yahoomail.com> Received: from [63.21.254.68] by web108.yahoomail.com; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 17:30:42 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:30:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Kristen Morgaine Sieber Subject: H-COST: Replying to digests To: SCA-Garb list , Historic Needlework , Historic Costume , An Tir list , SCA-Arts list MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kristen Morgaine Sieber Hi. This is not a flame, so please don't flame me! When you reply to a digest, it is very helpful if you change the subject line to what you are actually discussing. I get a lot of messages and time necessitates that I automatically skip the messages that say "RE: Digest #9999", even though I may be missing something pertinent to my interests. Thanks for your time! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 19:31:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29065 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:31:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14148; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:48:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA15211 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:45:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15203 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:45:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.54.227.65] (227-132.netwurx.net [206.54.227.132]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA27230 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:45:41 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909081639.KAA00455@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:44:26 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: H-COST: Creating patterns from books (Janet Arnold, etc.) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler Well, I said you'd be hearing from me, and here I am! Here is another suggestion for scaling up patterns in books. It's not as accurate as plotting with CAD, but it requires no special equipment or computer skills (well, a copy machine is helpful). It's called radial projection. 1. Make a photocopy of the pattern in the book. 2. Decide how many times larger it needs to be to be roughly the right size (for example, 1/8" scale patterns will need to be eight times larger to be their original size--though for some of us, that usually isn't big enough). Sometimes you will have to choose a dimension--I can usually make things big enough around with the radial projection, but then will have to correct later to make them tall enough (that's step 9). 3. Cut the paper apart so that each pattern piece is on a separate piece of paper, but leave a small margin around each pattern shape. For each one, 4. Tape the pattern piece to another piece of paper that you think (hope!) will be large enough for the re-sized pattern. 5. Pick a spot on the small pattern shape--could be in the center, or in one corner if there's a nice straight edge somewhere on it--and make a small dot there. 6. Draw lines radiating from this point in all directions, making sure that all major corners of the pattern shape have a line through them and that you have more than one in each curve. 7. For each line, measure precisely from the dot to the edge of the small pattern shape, then multiply that number by the number of times you want to enlarge the pattern. Follow the line out to the new larger measurement and make a dot there. (Don't give in to the urge to round these numbers up or down, or you will end up with very strange shapes!) 8. Connect the dots, being careful to try and recreate the shapes of curves accurately. 9. Use this as a base pattern, correcting proportions, etc. Happy Patterning! Melanie email to melanie@faucet.net or visit at http://www.faucet.net/costume _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 19:32:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29073 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:32:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14328; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:49:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA15419 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:47:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15411 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 18:47:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990910004723.BVAF22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 17:47:23 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 17:43:14 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Replying to digests From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990910004723.BVAF22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" This is not the day for me to be sending to h-costume - according to Penny..... BUT not only do I agree with that but I find it very confusing when people respond to a message and then change the subject completely but leave the same subject line. I mean what does washing diapers have to do with a subject line that says *Wool Question*. Absurd... no. Some of them are that far off. Not to mention the sort of messages like *Thanks Suzy* which could have been sent off list in the first place. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: Kristen Morgaine Sieber >To: SCA-Garb list ,Historic Needlework ,Historic Costume ,An Tir list ,SCA-Arts list >Subject: H-COST: Replying to digests >Date: Thu, Sep 9, 1999, 5:30 PM > > >-Poster: Kristen Morgaine Sieber > >Hi. This is not a flame, so please don't flame me! >When you reply to a digest, it is very helpful if you >change the subject line to what you are actually >discussing. I get a lot of messages and time >necessitates that I automatically skip the messages >that say "RE: Digest #9999", even though I may be >missing something pertinent to my interests. Thanks >for your time! > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 19:49:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29089 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:49:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15987; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:05:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17573 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:03:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ogopogo.flash.net (ogopogo.flash.net [209.30.6.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17567 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:03:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p251.amax20.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.68.251]) by ogopogo.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29304 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:03:08 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37D85A0F.BCEFC18B@flash.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 20:08:32 -0500 From: "V. Renee Bedford" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep! MM/PP References: <199909092144.PAA09318@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "V. Renee Bedford" Very nice pattern -- MM/PP Tudor #53. Thanks for the reference...called my *real* costumer friend, he had it, now his copy is in my little hands ready to be copied! Thanks for delurking day, would've never written otherwise. Are purses hist-cost? If yes, take a deep breath and click: www.therealmonicainc.com/ (Forgive me, but SURELY this is at least history?) Delurk once, and I get carried away! Thanks again, Renée _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 20:10:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29152 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:10:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18066; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:27:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA20486 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:25:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20469 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:25:28 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6PSRa01989 (4427) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:24:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <71835307.2509b7d3@aol.com> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:24:35 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Hat for Simplicity Elizabethan To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/09/1999 8:27:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lady_gawain@yahoo.com writes: << Okay, what goes on your head when wearing the Simplicity Elizabethan gown? And remember, I am not a hat maker! Thanks. >> OR...HOW TO COVER A FELT HAT I suppose the easiest thing, besides some pearls or something in your hair, might be a beret with a brim, thought to be honest, this is really earlier. I made some lovely hats a while back using some cheap [$12 back then] Pilgrim hats I got through a masquerade costume shop. They were presses in felt...tall crowns & wide brims. [You could do this with a straw hat if the crown is the right shape.] The brims are too wide for this period so I cut them down to about 2" and put millinery wire around the new edge by zigzagging over the wire. [Millenary wire is springy wire wrapped in thread. It comes in black or white and I think Greenburg & Hammer have it. If you can't get any, regular wire like from the hardware store will work if springy enough. It may rust later, however.] Then I covered these felt forms with fancy fabrics. To do this trace the brim on the fabric. Cut out 2 of these with generous seam allowances. Find the center of one by folding it in quarters. Slash it at the center in several radiating directions but no larger...in fact shy of the opening for your had to go in the hat. This one goes on top, the crown punched through it. You can cut some of the center away but let it creep up the crown some....you'll have to clip it. Baste everything in place...around the bottom of crown and fold the outer edge under [not to the bottom though] & baste it. It will crinkle but trim it as close as you dare. The other circle goes on the bottom, position it and baste it in place. There's no need to cut the hole for the head yet. Carefully fold the outside edge under and blind stitch it to the top circle at the edge of the brim...where the wire is. Or trim both top & bottom pieces to the edge & bind the brim's edge in fabric or ribbon. Now slice the hole & trim & clip it basting the clipped seam allowance up inside the crown. Now the crown. Measure it from the bottom of one side, over the top to the other side. Cut a circle with that diameter. Find the center & bast it to the top of the crown. Now you can pleat or gather or arrange decoratively the outside edge of this circle to fit the crown. Pull it taught all the way round! Baste it at the bottom [hopefully overlapping the brim fabric's clipped seam allowance]. Cut another circle [of a different color or white] for the inside of the crown, evenly pleat it and baste it's edge too, only inside. Now sew a 3/4" grosgrain to the inside where a sweat band would go. [This could be a leather strip if you wanted] Put the join at CB and a small ribbon bow there. You can sew the grosgrain through to the outside of the crown as all these stitches & basting get covered up with a Fancy embroidered ribbon or fabric band. The grosgrain will stabilize the opening so sew it down well. Take out any basting that shows. Add some jewels & feathers and VOILA....you are a milliner! Did you get all that??? :-) Then there's the coif. I know these are easy & there are patterns out there. They can sometimes be worn under hats & berets. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 20:21:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29182 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:21:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19155; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:38:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA22029 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:36:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailhost.neaccess.net (mailhost.neaccess.net [204.255.214.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22023 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:36:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dkenton (camb1213.capecod.net [209.244.250.197]) by mailhost.neaccess.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA01835 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:36:11 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990909213536.00cfa750@neaccess.net> X-Sender: kenton@neaccess.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 21:35:36 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Donna Kenton Subject: Re: H-COST: Hat for Simplicity Elizabethan In-Reply-To: <71835307.2509b7d3@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Donna Kenton >OR...HOW TO COVER A FELT HAT If they're wool felt, you can steam 'em over a tea kettle. Great for shaping! Donna Kenton Visit my web page! http://www.dabbler.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 20:41:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29218 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:41:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21208; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:58:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24812 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:56:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24781 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:56:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.126]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA01325 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:56:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005001befb30$3137e020$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Busks Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:49:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" >-Poster: "V. Renee Bedford" >Megan, have you tried http://www.farthingales.on.ca/clasps.htm#busks ? I have now. Thankyou. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 20:41:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29222 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:41:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21190; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:58:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24807 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:56:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA24783 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:56:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.126]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA01340 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005101befb30$316a3ac0$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Laughing Moon corset (was OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep!) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:59:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" >My husband thinks it's weird that I go >through all the effort to make something that I end up >wearing around the house. Funny - I have no place to actually wear the corset and chemise I'm gonna make this winter either. Maybe it's because you and I have the same name........ (But when I showed my husband the picture on the pattern envelope he didn't seem to mind) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 20:47:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29229 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:47:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21914; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:04:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA25631 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:02:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25621 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.190] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11PG0k-0005Ms-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:01:59 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:00:07 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoe dyeing question : FOLLOWUP ? In-Reply-To: <00a701befb17$9a02b1c0$36065cc3@herimats> References: <005701befafe$f059b280$22aca0d1@j9g8x8> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 12:02 AM 09/10/1999 +0100, "LDMundy" wrote: >If its the stuff I think it is that we have in the UK called Nubuck a very >thin sliver of real leather stuck to a polymer base and the roughes up to >give a nap. Then the only thing that will work; stay for a while and not >degrade the backing so that it shreds from the inside is;;;; believe it or >not water colour paint , the proper artist stuff .. ... ...Hope this helps. --Dave >+++++++++++++++++++++ >> -Poster: "Broneske" >> I have a pair of black shoes made from that God-awful, man-made suede stuff >> that makes your feet sweat, ... ... Dave--If this is a water color, won't it come off on sweaty feet/the socks covering them? Just wondering. Thank you for your thoughts/experience. -- Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 21:07:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29246 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:07:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23949; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:24:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28327 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:21:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f39.hotmail.com [207.82.250.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA28321 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:21:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 92383 invoked by uid 0); 10 Sep 1999 02:21:10 -0000 Message-ID: <19990910022110.92382.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.84 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:21:09 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.84] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 9/9/99: Delightful! Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:21:09 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" >From: "Erica Pence" >Okay, I confess, I am a lurker. What now? Forced to talk, you say. What >is this world coming to? > >Penny asked if the lurkers were introverts. I would have to say not >necessarily. I am primarily a lurker (with an occasional post) and am >actually quite the extrovert. By the time I have hit the keyboard at the >end of a long day, I am simply too tired to join in the many interesting >conversations on this list, as well as other lists I lurk. Therefore, I >have become perfectly content with reading. I enjoy the questions, the >answers, the informative posts, and admittedly even the occasional >argument. Hey, Jerry Springer is just too much for me. I will settle with >a good costuming debate any day. > Well... sometimes this list can get a *bit* like Jerry Springer! I found this comment so interesting --extrovert in real life, "introvert" --or quiet --on the list. Although in the past I have been quite the extrovert on the list, I am in truth an introvert in real life. My fiance is always saying, "Now, it's your turn to talk. You tell me a story, for once." And I can't ever think of a darn thing to say. But give me a keyboard-- and look out! This was a delightful idea, Penny. Thank you. Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 21:09:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29257 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:09:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24362; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:27:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28838 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:24:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA28830 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:24:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990910022631.20051.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.22.77.23] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:26:31 PDT Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:26:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: H-COST: ;-( *sigh* To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Please? Anyone? I know that my earlier e-mail went out because I rec'd a copy... I still am searching for help on my hat question... On the up side, I did make the 1920's slip dress that Vogue put out recently... great pattern... relatively simple if you pay attention (I didn't and ended up taking the whole thing apart again ;-)). Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 21:21:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29272 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:21:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25623; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:38:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00433 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:35:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f175.hotmail.com [207.82.251.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA00427 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:35:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 59711 invoked by uid 0); 10 Sep 1999 02:35:12 -0000 Message-ID: <19990910023512.59710.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.84 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:35:11 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.84] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/18C stays and shoulder straps Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:35:11 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Yes. This is exactly what it was for. That, and making one sit & stand up straight, with good posture. Altho' --there are strapless versions. JP Ryan's is fine for making a serviceable 1770s working corset *without* straps. I use basket reed and steels for the boning, steels on the seams, reed in between, and although you usually have to replace one or two during the year, they are very comfortable and easy to wear. And cheap... a whole reel of 1/2" reed costs about 7 bucks & makes dozens of corsets, with 30 to 40 bones apiece. Just cut them to length, round off the ends, rub them with wax, and insert. Susannah >-Poster: "Mary HInton" > >Re Tudor stays and the teenager who didn't like the shoulder straps. > >I think both N Waugh and Cunnington state that the shoulder straps also >serve to narrow the back and expand the chest - this is more than just >keeping the stays in place. I am sure a present day teenager might find >this a bit uncomfortable. I have seen pictures of 18C stays where the >shoulder strap goes from the high boned back, forward and down over the >shoulder and fastens quite a way back under the arm. I am not sure if this >was to give the wide neckline, and/or to pull the shoulders back. > >---Mary "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 21:22:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29276 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:22:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25720; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:39:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00669 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:37:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00664 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:37:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sue.computercrafters.com (pm3frd1-68-87.intrepid.net [206.102.68.87]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA01996 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:37:16 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990909224058.0080bcf0@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 22:40:58 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: Re: H-COST: To Erica re. "drawer tucking" In-Reply-To: <19990909192858.7218.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sue Shatto Sarah, if you don't think you will be able to get the hat done by Friday, I do have a repro beaded (with elastic headband). One is gray and one is a gold tone. They $20 Let me know if you need it. At 12:28 PM 9/9/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Sarah Toney > >Alright! I just can't STAND it anymore! There is NO >WAY I can keep my mouth shut for a WHOLE DAY! > >*phew* I feel better. > >I actually have a very important question that has a >time constraint, or I would have kept quiet until >tomorrow... > >I bought the 1920's hat pattern from Past Patterns... >I made the large size, and it is too small for my >head! Argh! Has anyone used this pattern? If so, >did you run into this problem, and how did you fix it? > Please help... we are putting on a 1920's coctail >party on Saturday night and I REALLY need this. > >Oh, and thanks for the laugh. > >> in the very ACT of tucking. (Tucking, I said! >> Somehow that looks awful when written.) In the same > >Sarah > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 21:29:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29284 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:29:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26590; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:46:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01596 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:44:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f271.hotmail.com [207.82.251.162]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA01590 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:44:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 37566 invoked by uid 0); 10 Sep 1999 02:43:46 -0000 Message-ID: <19990910024346.37565.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.84 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:43:46 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.84] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Busks Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:43:46 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" I have ordered from Farthingales and they not only have the busks, their service is impeccable. Greenberg & Hammer's prices were a bit high, but they have the very short ones (9") for shrimps like me. I have also ordered them from Saundra Altman (pastpat@thepoint.net) or thru her website www.pastpatterns.com Although she doesn't carry them in her catalog anymore, she has oodles of them in her shop & might still be persuaded to part with them if you can't find the correct size anywhere else. Susannah >From: "V. Renee Bedford" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume-digest@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: Busks >Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 08:57:01 -0500 > > >-Poster: "V. Renee Bedford" > >Megan, have you tried http://www.farthingales.on.ca/clasps.htm#busks ? > >HTH, Renée (delurking for 2nd time today!) > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 21:34:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29297 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:34:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27173; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:51:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA02380 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:49:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f143.hotmail.com [207.82.251.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA02367 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:49:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 90576 invoked by uid 0); 10 Sep 1999 02:48:38 -0000 Message-ID: <19990910024838.90575.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.84 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:48:37 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.84] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: To Erica re. "drawer tucking" Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:48:37 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Did you try calling Saundra directly and asking her about it? She is always very helpful on the phone, and wants you to be happy with her patterns. She will have a good idea for expanding the hat, I just know. Susannah >From: Sue Shatto >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: To Erica re. "drawer tucking" >Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 22:40:58 -0400 > > >-Poster: Sue Shatto > >Sarah, > if you don't think you will be able to get the hat done by Friday, I do >have a repro beaded (with elastic headband). One is gray and one is a gold >tone. They $20 >Let me know if you need it. > >At 12:28 PM 9/9/99 -0700, you wrote: > > > >-Poster: Sarah Toney > > > >Alright! I just can't STAND it anymore! There is NO > >WAY I can keep my mouth shut for a WHOLE DAY! > > > >*phew* I feel better. > > > >I actually have a very important question that has a > >time constraint, or I would have kept quiet until > >tomorrow... > > > >I bought the 1920's hat pattern from Past Patterns... > >I made the large size, and it is too small for my > >head! Argh! Has anyone used this pattern? If so, > >did you run into this problem, and how did you fix it? > > Please help... we are putting on a 1920's coctail > >party on Saturday night and I REALLY need this. > > > >Oh, and thanks for the laugh. > > > >> in the very ACT of tucking. (Tucking, I said! > >> Somehow that looks awful when written.) In the same > > > >Sarah > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > >Cordially, > >Sue Shatto > >Sue@VictorianMillinery.com >http://www.VictorianMillinery.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 21:39:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29301 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:39:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27769; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:56:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA03082 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:54:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f202.hotmail.com [207.82.251.93]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA03072 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 20:54:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 60471 invoked by uid 0); 10 Sep 1999 02:53:34 -0000 Message-ID: <19990910025334.60470.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.84 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:53:33 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.84] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Wool Question Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:53:33 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" Why don't you try felting it? We do this all the time with lighter weight woolens to thicken them up & make them toasty for capes, coats, etc. Wash with detergent in hot water, then rinse in very cold water. Use your washing machine. Dry in the dryer. Voila! Very nice, thick wool. Susannah > >I don't know if I'm an "in" or an "ex" but I have a question just the same. > >Before I send back this wool that I thought was at least 13 oz. > >Does anyone know of any uses in medieval/renaissance periods of a >lightweight wool such as a gabardine? It's really lovely material and if I >was inclined to make myself a dress suit, it would be of this material. As >it turns, I was intending to make some capes and trews from it and wanted a >heavier weight. > >Thanks in advance. > >~Kyna (who sometimes lurks...sometimes saves posts to read later and >sometimes even butts into the conversation) > ---- >ICQ#12859312 >Grannd Garb >Historic Clothing, Supplies and Accessories >http://GranndGarb.com > >http://TheMarketSquare.com >COMING SOON!! Ask for details about your selling space now. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir >To: >Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 12:24 AM >Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? > > > > > > -Poster: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir > > > > At 07:32 PM 09/08/1999 , you wrote: > > > > > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > > > > > As I am not at the level of expertise most others seem to >be. >I > > >read, I try, I learn...I lurk...thus, am I ... Carol > > > > What she said! :-> > > > > Svanny > > > > > > Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir )O( > > Barony of Gyldenholt, Kingdom of Caid > > kittykat@primenet.com > > ICQ: 12691776 (NyteRaevyn) > > AIM: SvanhildrV > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 21:51:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29338 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:51:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28905; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:08:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA04704 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:06:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04699 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:06:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.218.137.55] (benfatto.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.137.55]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA13084 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:05:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: benfatto@pop.ne.mediaone.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909100235.UAA00472@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:10:49 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Elaine Benfatto Subject: H-COST: Glove pattern Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elaine Benfatto A few weeks ago someone on this list was looking for a pattern to sew kid gloves for herself. This evening I happened to stumble on some pretty extensive instructions in an old library book: Novel Materials Editor: David L. Harrison (from the series: The Art of Sewing, edited by Carlotta Erwin) New York: Time-Life Books, 1974 The glove chapter falls on pages 70-83. It contains patterns, special instructions on preparing the leather for gloves (things I'd never seen in any other leather book!) and sewing instructions for a couple of different glove styles. It looks quite interesting! Elaine (who is also delurking for the first time tonight!) Elaine Benfatto (Cambridge, MA) benfatto@mediaone.net http://people.ne.mediaone.net/benfatto/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 22:00:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29404 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:00:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00911; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:17:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA05951 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:14:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from edtnps04.telusplanet.net (edtnps04.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.104]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05922 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:14:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clgrtnt2-port-50.agt.net ([161.184.43.50]:1027 "HELO Freya") by smtp1.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <69824-15682>; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:14:07 -0600 X-Sender: agottfre@pop.telusplanet.net (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: H-COST: OT: Anti-lurk day X-Mailer: Message-Id: <19990910031410Z69824-15682+42@smtp1.telusplanet.net> Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:14:07 -0600 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) I usually lurk, because my interest area is pretty darn obscure: the dress of the mixed-blood (i.e. half-breed) 'country wives' of Canadian fur traders, 1774-1821. My last project was sewing a new, more historically correct pair of knee-high leggins of red Melton cloth just in time for the Rocky Mountain House bicentennial in July. Then Joan Jurancich (hi!) very politely pointed out I was wearing them sideways. Thanks, Joan! (Really!) And thanks to everyone who's answered the questions I've occasionally posted to the list over the last three years. Your obliged and obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 22:26:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29500 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:26:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04689; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:42:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA09596 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:40:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.tds.net (mail.tds.net [204.246.1.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA09588 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agast (mawi144-197.dsl.tds.net [204.71.144.197]) by mail.tds.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA27342 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:40:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19990909223950.015b41bc@mail.tds.net> X-Sender: agast@mail.tds.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 22:39:50 +0000 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Anne Gast Subject: Re: H-COST:De-Lurking In-Reply-To: <265851b2.250979c5@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Anne Gast OK, I have built my courage enough to delurk. This is worse than talking to a room full of people. (I guess, this is talking to more than a roomful.) I make costumes for IFGS and Magic Horizens, my live action, live combat (foam weapons, no pain), medieval/fantasy role-playing groups. I lurk because I feel I don't know enough to contribute, but I love learning from this list and from the books recommended. I especially enjoyed the Irish costuming threads. I have wondered when the bagged sleeves on leines started appearing. Or conversely, what period is it appropiate not to have them? Anne Madison, Wisconsin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 22:47:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29519 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:47:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09417; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:04:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12720 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:01:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12712 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:01:57 -0600 (MDT) From: Gwnvr@aol.com Received: from Gwnvr@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6FQItTTmh_ (4555) for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:52:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:52:15 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Happy List Member To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 24 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gwnvr@aol.com OK, I have about fifteen minutes to speak up I guess. I only occasionally de-lurk to ask questions but I learn so much from reading. Ironically, I hate to sew...I just love to wear costumes and I 'm not happy unless they're "right" or as right as I can reasonably get them. I work as a historical interpreter for a museum and do historical dancing. I sew when I need something to wear. I could never begin to sew on the level of most of you. I'm adequate but forget trying to enlarge patterns from books or drape muslins, etc. It's way beyond me. Still I enjoy following along vicariously and seeing your creations online. (I have a report card from kindergarten that says, "Jennifer is a bright little girl but she spends too much time playing in the dress up room being a princess. Please encourage her to spend more time at the science table and the math corner." I'm still wondering how much time is "too much" for a five year old to spend playing dress-up???? Apparently I 'm still trying to get back in there!!!) Jen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 22:58:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29534 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:58:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10699; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:15:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14456 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:13:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f248.hotmail.com [207.82.251.139]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA14447 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:13:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 77688 invoked by uid 0); 10 Sep 1999 04:12:44 -0000 Message-ID: <19990910041244.77687.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.42.247 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 09 Sep 1999 21:12:43 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.42.247] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoe dyeing question Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 21:12:43 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Hi there Would it be possible to recover them? Maybe you could find a fabric or a light-weight leather (ie garmet weight pig skin) in the shade you want and just stitch it over the offending black pseudo-suede by hand. As for finding the leather, Tandy has a website which is taking the place of most of their stores. Don't know the exact e-dress so you'll have to use your favorite search engine and look it up. De-lurking for the second time. Lonna (Enyd) >From: Merouda the True of Bornover >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoe dyeing question >Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 13:22:29 -0700 > > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > > > I have a pair of black shoes made from that God-awful, man-made suede >stuff > > that makes your feet sweat, and I need to change to color to red. Does > > anyone know if there is a way I can dye or paint this type of material > > without ruining it? > >wow. I suspect you are stuck with black shoes. Not because of the >fabric/materials but because once something is black, it's pretty much >black >for life. Unless you have bleach and then it's probably going to be gray. >I >could, of course, be mistaken about this. You could certainly paint it >with a >paint that would cover it but the paint would probably ruin the shoes in >the >end. > >Cynthia >-- >Cynthia Long >Merouda the True of Bornover >Barony of Madrone >Kingdom of An Tir > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 23:37:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29620 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:37:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13624; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:54:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA19449 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:52:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19430 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:52:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.183] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11PIfQ-0003CP-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 21:52:08 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 20:14:42 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: To Erica re. "drawer tucking" In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990909224058.0080bcf0@intrepid.net> References: <19990909192858.7218.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 10:40 PM 09/09/1999 -0400, you wrote: -Poster: Sue Shatto > >Sarah, > if you don't think you will be able to get the hat done by Friday, I do >have a repro beaded (with elastic headband). One is gray and one is a gold >tone. They $20 >Let me know if you need it. I have dealt with Sue and am very happy with her and the hat she sold me. -- Carol, who rec's and expects no stipend for saying any of this ... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 9 23:57:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29629 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:57:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14857; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:13:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA21488 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:11:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21477 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:11:04 -0600 (MDT) From: JPMcTeer@aol.com Received: from JPMcTeer@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ROBa06600 (3891) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 01:09:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <215d042b.2509eca0@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 01:09:52 EDT Subject: H-COST: Victorian "Fancy Dress" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: JPMcTeer@aol.com I have committed to do a (slide) lecture for the local Victorian Society in October on ideas for costumes for our Victorian "masked ball" next January. I have found Planche 1881and Strutt (rare book room) in our library catalogs, as well as the Butterick Masquerade book for 1892. I purchased the new book on Canadian "Magnificent Entertainments" by Cynthia Cooper. I haven't checked yet on the dates, but I think that Vecellio, Racinet, and Braun & Schneider came out before 1900 (and are now in Dover reprint.) This is only a 45 minute lecture, but I would like to make a listing of books (especially cheap Dover reprints) for a handout. What have I missed? Is there anything with color plates? Does anyone want to sell me copies of their slides? As you might know, I usually lecture and do workshops on corsets and other "body-shaping garments" so I don't have much on this topic, unless I own the books for some other reason. I haven't had time to check them all yet. Thanks to you all for delurking and for the useful thread on the Laughing Moon corset, chemise, and kit. I too am a very satisfied customer of Farthingales for supplies. Joan McTeer Minneapolis (who by now has missed the 9/9/99 deadline!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 00:17:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29652 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:17:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16236; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:31:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA23621 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:29:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA23608 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:29:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 230 invoked from network); 10 Sep 1999 05:31:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?207.231.70.157?) (207.231.70.157) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 1999 05:31:07 -0000 X-Sender: karolee@keith.lloyd.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:29:34 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: karolee@fenris.net (Karolee Smiley) Subject: Re: H-COST:De-Lurking Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: karolee@fenris.net (Karolee Smiley) > >I don't contribute much for several reasons -- > > 1) I don't have a great deal of time to spend on-line, and most of that >time is taken > up just READING the messages...... > > 2) Most of the messages aren't dealing with timeframes or garments I have > much knowledge about or interest in...... > > 3) Frequently, when I DO find something that I could respond to --- I go >down several more messages and find that someone has already answered it! > I'm in the same boat, especially since I can't always read my mail everyday. Imagine my surprise to find nearly 200 messages since I last checked on Tuesday evening! By the time I find out about a thread, its usually over. Even this is almost past schedule. Kaitlin Karolee _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 00:35:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29663 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:35:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17418; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:51:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA25697 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:49:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25690 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:49:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([208.253.190.185]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990910054836.FZNN24367@worldnet.att.net> for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 05:48:36 +0000 Message-ID: <37D89755.D69C85D8@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 22:29:57 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Med Misc & other things Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Medieval Misc. patterns tend to be awful - I can't recommend them. They say they were drafted by Laurels of the SCA but they don't say they were drafted by *costuming* Laurels. I can't make heads or tails of them either so they weren't drafted by calligraphy and Illumination Laurels either. I'm not really lurking - I just rejoined the list a few days ago after about a 6 month hiatus. Due mostly to becoming the SCA's Society Exchequer, so I've been furiously trying to get the financials done and off to the CPA. Thank god that's almost done. What's next? Making a corset for a friend in Canada who just recently joined the SCA, and doesn't have the guts to try making one herself. Then some new Regencies for next year's Costume College, and maybe an Edwardian Ballgown. In the more immediate future, a new Italian for Crown next weekend (god willing the spreadsheets not falling apart). Carolyn (aka Tetchubah) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 00:35:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29667 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:35:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17474; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:51:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA25736 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:49:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25730 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:49:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-95.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.95]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA17036 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:49:23 -0700 Message-ID: <004101befb50$9062c4a0$5faba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoe dyeing question Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 22:51:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" Thanks to everyone who replied about my shoe dyeing question. I think that perhaps I might try to cover them since that may be the best looking way of doing it. Thanks again. Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 00:39:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29675 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:39:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17754; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:55:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA26031 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:52:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA26025 for ; Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:52:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-158.radiks.net [206.29.243.160]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA03255 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:51:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990910004734.03d2894c@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:47:34 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: patterns, gingham In-Reply-To: <199909092144.PAA09318@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger >- -Poster: Donna Kenton > >A trick I learned was to make the initial one out of gingham. Make sure >it's the woven check, not the printed one. It's more expensive than >muslin, but you can see the grain lines so much easier, which makes it >easier for me to use. > Also, if you use the 1" check, it makes an automatic grid for scaling up patterns - just draw on the gingham! Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 01:16:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29711 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 01:16:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20321; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:32:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA29549 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:30:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from exchange.acer.edu.au (exchange.acer.edu.au [203.2.133.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29534 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:30:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by exchange.acer.edu.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:25:46 +1000 Message-ID: From: Harvey Georgia To: "'H-costume'" Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep!/Laughing Moon Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:25:42 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Harvey Georgia From: AnnoraK@aol.com Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep!/Laughing Moon Re: Georgia's question about the Laughing Moon corset pattern -- I built my first corset last month using this pattern. I made the Dore Straight Seam out of coutil, with an outside layer of moire. I followed their suggestions of making a muslin and doing two test fittings. I had to trim back the underarm areas about 1/2" - 3/4", but other than that, it went together smoothly and easily, even with feline interference. But, then I was sorta paranoid about screwing the whole thing up, so did everything by the rules, tracing out all lines and markings and all the other stuff that I usually don't do with the rest of my projects. One suggestion, though -- trace out the pattern onto butcher paper, if you weren't planning to already. -- Thanks Jen. One other question - has anybody made the pattern *with* the gores? I'm very busty, and very hourglass, so I'll have to be making that one :-) Cheers Georgia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 01:24:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29720 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 01:24:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20863; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:40:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA00370 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:38:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA00359 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:38:11 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 00:38:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11046 invoked from network); 10 Sep 1999 06:39:46 -0000 Received: from 88.64.3-6.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.88) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 10 Sep 1999 06:39:46 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990909233940.3ee76ad8@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: H-COST: Finished Object -- Elizabethan Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich Well, I *finally* finished my gown for the Northern California Renaissance Pleasure Faire. I sewed the buttons on just before I got dressed on this past Saturday morning . It's a midnight blue velveteen with three rows of gold braid down each skirt front. The high-bodied bodice has two different gold/black braids; one kind on the shoulder seams and another on the center back seam, collar seams, and around the edges of the sleeve caps. The buttons down the front (all functional) are a mounded golden metal filagree about 5/8th inches in diameter with two matching 3/8th-inch-diameter ones for the collar. This time I attached the bodice to the skirt since I am tired of trying to keep from having gaposis; besides, that means that I don't need to have something *else* tight about the waist, the farthingale and underskirt are enough, thank you . Since I had a pair of sleeves I had made several years ago, and enough of the fabric and trim, I decided to make a matching forepart for the underskirt; it's a salmon-pink textured velvet (intended for upholstery) with four rows of two kinds of bright gold trim, one a lace and one a braid (sort of). The four rows go down the center of the skirt to about 3 inches above the hem, then split and go across the bottom, following the curve of the hem (with two additional rows added to keep with the 4-row theme). Oh, the sleeves are lined with saffron-coloured cotton , makes them very colourful. I don't have any pictures, but if anyone on the list visited the Renaissance Pleasure Faire (in Vacaville, CA, at the Nut Tree) this past weekend, you may have seen me (aka Mistress Blanche Parry, chief Gentlewoman to the Queen) in attendance upon Her Grace. And yes, it was hot, and I sweated a lot, but, boy, do we look good! I'll be back at Faire for the last four weekends (September 25 through October 17). Hope to see you there! Joan Jurancich aka Mistress Blanche Parry, chief Gentlewoman to the Queen [RPFN] joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 05:13:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA26311 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 05:13:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA01662; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:29:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA09749 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:26:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09744 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:26:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA29028.; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:31:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:25:25 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:25:07 +0100 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: De-Lurking Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id EAA09745 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" To Jill of ECWS: I'm thrilled to hear that there *is* another 17th century enthusiast on the list. It's always seemed as though I was the only one! Like Jennifer, I dislike sewing and only make what I feel I really need for reenactment purposes, so my contributions to the list are mainly on social history, word definitions etc. Joining this list has made me more authenticity-conscious, especially as my present role as a civilian musician in the Sealed Knot brings me into much more direct contact with the public than in my previous career as a musketeer. The hot weather we've had this summer has made me decide that my next project must be a sleeveless bodice which will be cooler than my woollen one. Kate Bunting King's Lifeguard of Foote/ Captaine Generalls Musick, Sealed Knot _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 06:00:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26355 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 06:00:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03482; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 05:16:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA13587 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 05:14:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA13582 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 05:14:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [38.30.47.225] (ip225.washington11.dc.pub-ip.psi.net [38.30.47.225]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA23152 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 04:14:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909101114.EAA23152@avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Subject: H-COST: Victorian Dress Book Date: Fri, 10 Sep 99 07:20:41 -0000 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: "Historic Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ah ha! I can unlurk and contribute at the same time!! To Joan: "Victorian Fashions & Costumes From Harpers Bazaar: 1867-1898 - Published by Dover - Introduction by Stella Blum - part of their pictorial archive series - first published in 1974 - I found on ebay, do not know if still published, is black & white but has over 1000 illustrationsxz from fashion plates. To quote from the blurb on the back cover of the book. " These illustrations not only give you what apparel appealed...but give you an idea of the evolutionary nature of fashion as well. Good descriptions of the outfit - illustrations are superb - shows accessories and underpinnings as well. Margo King in Potomac _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 08:42:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26571 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:42:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14310; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:56:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA01776 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:54:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from nautilus.shore.net (nautilus.shore.net [207.244.124.104]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01769 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:54:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell3.shore.net [207.244.124.103] by nautilus.shore.net with esmtp (Exim) id 11PR88-0005Bt-00; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:54:20 -0400 Received: from vintage by shell3.shore.net with local (Exim) id 11PR87-0006Rz-00; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:54:19 -0400 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:54:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Katy Bishop To: JPMcTeer@aol.com cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Fancy dress reprint In-Reply-To: <215d042b.2509eca0@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Katy Bishop On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 JPMcTeer@aol.com wrote: > >I have committed to do a (slide) lecture for the local Victorian Society in >October on ideas for costumes for our Victorian "masked ball" next January. >I have found Planche 1881and Strutt (rare book room) in our library catalogs, >as well as the Butterick Masquerade book for 1892. I purchased the new book >on Canadian "Magnificent Entertainments" by Cynthia Cooper. I haven't checked >yet on the dates, but I think that Vecellio, Racinet, and Braun & Schneider >came out before 1900 (and are now in Dover reprint.) Don't know if any of these would be of interest to your group, but.... We have just reprinted the Butterick Masquerade and Carnival Book, 1892. We also publish other small costume booklets on dress of the 19th and early 20th Centuries, primarily aimed at helping Vintage Dancers. Katy Bishop, Vintage Victorian vintage@shore.net Custom reproduction gowns of the Victorian Era. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 09:03:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26592 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:03:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16235; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:17:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA05354 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:14:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05338 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:14:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-79-19.s19.tnt5.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.79.19]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA02914 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00a101befb96$763e1980$4b3daccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: Strike is over!!! Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:12:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Boy, it was very tempting to jump on that Civil War uniform question, but I sat on my hands!!! Margo did a great job of going cold turkey! R. L. I love to pick on you, I know you haven't been on for a while, because of that bad server, but we love your input. And I for one have missed you not being on the list. Melanie, I am so happy you are back on the list. For the lurkers... I am SO proud of you! WOW! What great intros and questions. For those of you who commented that you couldn't sew, I can't sew anymore. Too many years behind the sewing machine did my back in. Four years ago when I first came on this list, I was a college student who knew little about historic costume. I have learned so much from this list and made some really good friends. I have even had the chance to meet some of you when traveling through Richmond, or at conventions or museum exhibit openings. My family and Miss Mela's family even spent the 4th of July together (1812 overtune with real cannons). A lot of the great opportunities I have had are because of some of the people I have met on this list. Heck, I have even located two very distant internet cousins on the list, Doris and Hope. My hat is off to all of you! BUT lurkers please continue to speak up and let us know you are there! I am so glad you all introduced yourselves! Extroverts are like a butterfly in a room of beautiful flowers. We want to see and meet every flower and each flower makes up a beautiful garden. So keep on talking lurkers. If you have a question, chances are other people had the same question but were afraid to ask. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 09:06:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26596 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:06:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16931; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:20:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06077 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:18:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06070 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:18:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-79-19.s19.tnt5.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.79.19]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA04575 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:18:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00a901befb97$08619940$4b3daccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: Button holes Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:16:07 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I was watching Alfred Hitchcock presents the other night. Mr. Hitchcock stated that buttons were invented 100 years prior to buttonholes. Is this true??? Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 09:55:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26629 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:55:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23489; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:11:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16409 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:09:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from email.boisestate.edu (email.boisestate.edu [132.178.16.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16389 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:08:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cobfac.boisestate.edu (cobfac.boisestate.edu [132.178.51.3]) by email.boisestate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13174 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:10:32 -0600 Message-Id: <199909101510.JAA13174@email.boisestate.edu> Received: from COBFAC/SpoolDir by cobfac.boisestate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 10 Sep 99 09:08:51 -0700 Received: from SpoolDir by COBFAC (Mercury 1.44); 10 Sep 99 09:08:34 -0700 From: "Linda Yordy" Organization: College of Business & Economics To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:08:31 -0700 Subject: H-COST: Leather doublet questions Priority: normal References: <37D73BA0.6C6C6B53@bc.sympatico.ca> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Linda Yordy" Greetings! Am looking for advice from those of you who know about sewing with leather. I picked up a wonderful piece of navy blue leather (not sure if blue leather is period, but it looks and feels great!) and I want to make a 16th century man's doublet out of it. I've never sewn on real leather before. I've heard that I need a leather sewing machine needle (this is very supple leather and should go through the machine ok). I've also heard to use longer stitches than I would with woven fabric. I'm thinking about using some slashing and pinking to add interest and line it with a bright, contrasting color to show off the slashes. Any suggestions on the slashes? Should I keep them smaller (1/2 inch or so big) so that the leather won't stretch? Seems to me (the book is at home so I can't reference it now) that the pictures I've seen in Janet Arnold show the pinking and slashing to be fairly small. As far as seams go, I was planning to use a modified flat felled seam when sewing leather to leather - sew right sides together, trim one seam allowance to about 1/4 inch, press both seam allowances in the same direction with the longer one on top, then top stitch in place (just like regular flat felled only the raw edge isn't turned under to keep bulk down). Anyone have experience, suggestions on seaming leather? For sewing leather to fabric lining, I was planning to just stitch as usual (with longer stitch length). Will this work? I assume I don't need to worry about grainline with leather, or do I? I know that with synthetic suede (Ultrasuede), you can turn the pattern pieces anyway you want. I plan to use three layers: lining, interlining, and leather. Usually when I make a doublet or bodice, I treat the lining and interlining as one unit. Would it be better to use the interlining (which is the layer that will show under the leather) and the leather as one unit instead. Or does it matter? Any other caveats? Thanks! Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 10:14:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26678 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:14:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26219; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:29:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21178 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:27:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Princeton.EDU (outbound2.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.120]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21170 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:27:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailserver.Princeton.EDU (mailserver.Princeton.EDU [128.112.129.65]) by Princeton.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07589 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:27:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from witsend2 (witsend2.Princeton.EDU [128.112.234.12]) by mailserver.Princeton.EDU (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA13870 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:27:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "GRM Files" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Button holes Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:27:31 -0400 Message-ID: <003901befba0$ffeb1c50$0cea7080@witsend2.Princeton.EDU> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <00a901befb97$08619940$4b3daccf@e4c2n6> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "GRM Files" On-line Encyclopedia Britannica says about buttons: button usually disklike piece of solid material having holes or a shank through which it is sewed to one side of an article of clothing and used to fasten or close the garment by passing through a loop or hole in the other side. Purely decorative, nonutilitarian buttons are also frequently used on clothing. The ancient Greeks and Etruscans fastened their tunics at the shoulders with buttons and loops. In medieval Europe, garments were laced together or fastened with brooches or clasps and points, until buttonholes were invented in the 13th century. [rest of item truncated as inapplicable.] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 11:19:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26914 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:19:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05743; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:34:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07550 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:31:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.zebra.net (mail.zebra.net [209.12.13.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07536 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:31:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zebra.net ([209.12.238.68]) by mail.zebra.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:27:12 -0500 Message-ID: <37D93274.A94E309F@zebra.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:31:48 -0500 From: Meribeth McCombs X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Confederate Uniform Braid References: <005501befadb$4a43ed20$4caba0d1@j9g8x8> <37D7E77D.C66B6B9@zebra.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Meribeth McCombs Everyone...thanks to a wonderful list member I now know what kind of braid..but I still have no idea what the best attachment method for it is. Help! MeriBeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 11:39:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26966 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:39:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09425; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:53:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12350 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:50:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12337 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:50:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p36.directcon.net [206.170.184.135]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA27161 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:48:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:48:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909101648.JAA27161@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/18C stays and shoulder straps Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson .. a whole >reel of 1/2" reed costs about 7 bucks & makes dozens of corsets, with 30 to >40 bones apiece. Just cut them to length, round off the ends, rub them with >wax, and insert. Do you have a mail order source for reed? Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 11:54:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27009 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:54:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12150; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:10:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16816 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:07:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16808 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p36.directcon.net [206.170.184.135]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA29319 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909101705.KAA29319@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Med Misc & other things Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 10:29 PM 09/09/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Carolyn Richardson > >Medieval Misc. patterns tend to be awful - I can't recommend them. They >say they were drafted by Laurels of the SCA but they don't say they were >drafted by *costuming* Laurels. That, and these patterns have been around a *long* time. For all we know, they may have been created back in the first few years of the SCA, when the standards were much, much, lower. Does anyone know anything definitive about the history of this company? How long they've been around, who did the patterns, etc? Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 12:02:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27083 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:02:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13633; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:18:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19107 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:15:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19092 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:15:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p36.directcon.net [206.170.184.135]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA00421 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:14:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909101714.KAA00421@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Fancy dress reprint Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson .. >We have just reprinted the Butterick Masquerade and Carnival Book, >1892. well, that might explain why I've been unable to resell the 1900 edition that my husband spent a small fortune on. Rats. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 12:07:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27132 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:07:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14237; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:23:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20249 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:21:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20237 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p36.directcon.net [206.170.184.135]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA01119 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:19:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909101719.KAA01119@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Strike is over!!! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Margo did a great job of going cold turkey! Thanks Penny! It wasn't easy, but it was worth it to hear from all the lurkers. I've had several people ask me lately how and why I manage to spend so much time on the list. the "how" is that I'm a speed reader, so it takes me less than an hour to read 300+ emails a day. The reason why I spend so much time here is that I'm a full time mother of small children. This list is the only way I get to talk to adults who are interested in the same things as I am, rather than the Stepford Moms at the bus stop. I really believe that I would not be as good a mother as I am if I didn't have H-costume to provide me with a social life and some intellectual stimulation. Thanks, everyone! Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 12:19:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27168 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:19:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15907; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:34:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22769 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:32:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22756 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:32:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990910173216.LNZK16271.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:32:16 -0700 Message-ID: <37D940B1.781CC2B5@home.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:32:33 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Leather doublet questions References: <37D73BA0.6C6C6B53@bc.sympatico.ca> <199909101510.JAA13174@email.boisestate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Linda Yordy wrote: > Am looking for advice from those of you who know about sewing > with leather. BTDT....have a leather cotehardie I *really* need to finish! > I've never sewn on real leather before. I've heard that I need a > leather sewing machine needle (this is very supple leather and > should go through the machine ok). I've also heard to use longer > stitches than I would with woven fabric. I would *definately* get leather needles! But I use the same stitch length I do on woven fabrics (2 on my machine). > I'm thinking about using some slashing and pinking to add interest > and line it with a bright, contrasting color to show off the slashes. > Any suggestions on the slashes? Should I keep them smaller (1/2 > inch or so big) so that the leather won't stretch? Seems to me (the > book is at home so I can't reference it now) that the pictures I've > seen in Janet Arnold show the pinking and slashing to be fairly > small. I haven't done slashes in leather so am not sure of this. If the lining is sturdy I shouldn't think that you need be concerned about the leather stretching. > As far as seams go, I was planning to use a modified flat felled > seam when sewing leather to leather - sew right sides together, > trim one seam allowance to about 1/4 inch, press both seam > allowances in the same direction with the longer one on top, then > top stitch in place (just like regular flat felled only the raw edge > isn't turned under to keep bulk down). Anyone have experience, > suggestions on seaming leather? For sewing leather to fabric > lining, I was planning to just stitch as usual (with longer stitch > length). Will this work? This is what *I* do. I cut the leather with a 1/4" seam allowance on a *slant* (slant cut so that the 'outer' edge is on the right side and the shallower is on the wrong). Then I just sew it together. No problems. There are even tools available from leather making stores (such as Tandy) that allow one to 'shave' leather before seaming it (which is what the Leather God I know of here in town does). IOW you can reduce the thickness of the leather just at the seam line. I hope this made sense, I'm sick today! > I assume I don't need to worry about grainline with leather, or do I? > I know that with synthetic suede (Ultrasuede), you can turn the > pattern pieces anyway you want. You only need to worry about marks on the leather. > I plan to use three layers: lining, interlining, and leather. Usually > when I make a doublet or bodice, I treat the lining and interlining as > one unit. Would it be better to use the interlining (which is the > layer that will show under the leather) and the leather as one unit > instead. Or does it matter? Good question...I rarely use more than two layers with anything but if you're slashing I would think that treating the interlining and the lining as one piece would be fine and might even be preferable to treating the leather and interlining as one piece. Kat waiting with bated breath to see what others say about this! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 12:30:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27223 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:30:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17401; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24849 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:41:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24840 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:41:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id KAA22403; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37D9432F.20BFC6C3@serv.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:43:12 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Leather doublet questions References: <37D73BA0.6C6C6B53@bc.sympatico.ca> <199909101510.JAA13174@email.boisestate.edu> <37D940B1.781CC2B5@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > BTDT....have a leather cotehardie I *really* need to finish! > waiting with bated breath to see what others say about this! *I'm* waiting with bated breath to hear all about a leather cotehardie. Ack!! Sounds hot. In more ways than one. ;-> Merouda -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 12:40:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27267 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:40:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18742; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:56:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27479 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:53:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27464 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:53:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Andrea (port077.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.77]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id TAA15243 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:53:42 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <37D5839A.CE3077E7@ndh.net> Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 23:28:59 +0200 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: plastic boning X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------90374ADD723BF6B9F88B9432" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------90374ADD723BF6B9F88B9432 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > May I please ask for details of where the boning can be purchased from? > Living > in the UK which is part of the EU now means that I can order from Germany > without all the problems with paying import duty and so on. Which is the > main > problem that I have with buying from the USA so a more 'local' source would > be very handy. > > Thanks and best wishes > > Lissa > Here I have to point you to my friend Alexa in Munich (who has got the baroque costume website http://www.marquise.de , by the way), she ordered a larger quantity of the plastic boning for our workshop. Maybe she can also provide you with adresses for ordering. Her e-mail is alexa@marquise.de Many greetings, Diana --------------90374ADD723BF6B9F88B9432 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
May I please ask for details of where the boning can be purchased from?
Living
in the UK which is part of the EU now means that I can order from Germany
without all the problems with paying import duty and so on. Which is the
main 
problem that I have with buying from the USA so a more 'local' source would
be very handy.

Thanks and best wishes

Lissa
Here I have to point you to my friend Alexa in Munich (who has got the baroque costume website http://www.marquise.de , by the way), she ordered a larger quantity of  the plastic boning for our workshop.
Maybe she can also provide you with adresses for ordering.
Her e-mail is alexa@marquise.de

Many greetings,
Diana --------------90374ADD723BF6B9F88B9432-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 12:47:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27288 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:47:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19865; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:02:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29107 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:00:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29101; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:00:18 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:00:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909101800.MAA29101@net.indra.com> From: "Mary McGuire" To: Subject: H-COST: costuming books on ebay Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Mary McGuire" I have noticed that several members have posted costuming books that they have up on ebay, so I hope that my venture out of lurking isn't against list etiquette. I have several books up, including these that would be of list interest. Go here to find them: http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&us erid=mdbk&include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25 IL Cappello Da Donna, Women's Hats by Adele Campione A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor in All Countries and in All Times,Together with Some Closely Related Subjects by George Cameron Stone Historical Coiffures, Historical Supplements Published by the Gallia Institute in the Gallia Messenger (Look at this one especially. Even if your're not interested in getting it, it is something to see.) Grandmother's Hope Chest, French Sewing by Machine by Martha Pullen Antique Clothing, French Sewing by Machine by Martha Pullen Heirloom Sewing for Women, French Sewing by Machine by Martha Pullen 17th and 18th Century Costume, Victoria & Albert Museum Large Picture Book No.9 The Kashmir Shawl by John Irwin, Victoria & Albert Museum, Museum Monograph 29 Vintage Fashions for Women, 1920's-1940's with values by Kristina Harris Victorian and Edwardian Fashion, A Photographic Survey by Alison Gernsheim European Arms and Armor by Charles Henry Ashdown I'll be putting up more, but slowly. Thanks, Mary _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 12:54:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27294 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:54:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20539; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:08:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00553 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:06:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00544 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:06:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990910180617.GVYP22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:06:17 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:09:34 -0700 Subject: H-COST: Pacific NW Exhibits From: "R.L. Shep" To: "h-costume" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3019806574_117666_MIME_Part" Message-Id: <19990910180617.GVYP22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3019806574_117666_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Victoria Rivers -- will be visiting Seattle on October 21-22 to speak at a Thursday evening opening at Material Possessions and to give a "collections seminar" at the Henry Gallery the following noon, October 22nd. Victoria is a professor of textile history and studio fiber arts at UC, Davis. Her visit will coincide with the Thames & Hudson publication of her new book, *The Shining Cloth*. She will be using pieces from the Henry's collection to illustrate points from the book in her talk. Contact Judy Sourakli at the Henry Gallery (543-2281) or me (441-4459) for further details. The Vincent Collection will have an exhibit at the Bainbridge Public Library, entitled *Facinatin' Rhythm* it features evening gowns and wraps from 1920 to 1940. September 26th, to October 3rd *Songet - Gilt Cloth of Indonesia*. 19th & 20th century gold and silver embellished textiles worn on ceremonial occasions in Sumatra and Malaysia. Material Possessions gallery. 1932 First Ave #610. Seattle, WA 98101. Contact Linda Beeman 206-41-4459. Oct 21 through Dec 31. *Woven Symbols: Chinese Garments and Textiles*. Seattle Asian Art Museum. Volunteer Park. Seattle, WA. through 4/2/00. *Talking Fingers: Contemporary Weavings from the Northern Northwest Coast*. Seattle Art Museum. Seattle, WA through 4/23/00. *Textiles and Temples in Northeast India*. Presentation by Robb Shep at the Seattle Textile & Rug Society on Oct 14th. 206-325-8907. email stars.1@usa.net *Broken Threads - From Aryanization to Cultural Loss: The Destruction of the Jewish Fashion Industry in Germany and Austria*. includes 40 costumes. Vancouver Holocaust Ed. Centre. 50-950 W. 41 St. Vancouver, BC V5Z 2N7. 804-264-0499. through 5/15/00. *Woman of Fashion: Guendolen Plestcheeff Collection. Museum of History and Industry. Seattle. through Oct 14. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com --MS_Mac_OE_3019806574_117666_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Pacific NW Exhibits Victoria Rivers -- will be visiting Seattle on October 21-22 to speak a= t a Thursday evening opening at Material Possessions and to give a "col= lections seminar" at the Henry Gallery the following noon, October 22nd= . Victoria is a professor of textile history and studio fiber arts at UC, D= avis. Her visit will coincide with the Thames & Hudson publication of h= er new book, *The Shining Cloth*. She will be using pieces from the Henry'= s collection to illustrate points from the book in her talk.
Contact Judy Sourakli at the Henry Gallery (543-2281) or me (441-4459) for = further details.

The Vincent Collection will have an exhibit at the Bainbridge Public Librar= y, entitled *Facinatin' Rhythm* it features evening gowns and wraps from 192= 0 to 1940. September 26th, to October 3rd

*Songet - Gilt Cloth of Indonesia*. 19th & 20th century gold and silve= r embellished textiles worn on ceremonial occasions in Sumatra and Malaysia.= Material Possessions gallery. 1932 First Ave #610. Seattle, WA 98101. C= ontact Linda Beeman 206-41-4459. Oct 21 through Dec 31.

*Woven Symbols: Chinese Garments and Textiles*. Seattle Asian Art Museum. = Volunteer Park. Seattle, WA. through 4/2/00.

*Talking Fingers: Contemporary Weavings from the Northern Northwest Coast*.= Seattle Art Museum. Seattle, WA through 4/23/00.

*Textiles and Temples in Northeast India*. Presentation by Robb Shep at th= e Seattle Textile & Rug Society on Oct 14th. 206-325-8907. email stars= .1@usa.net

*Broken Threads - From Aryanization to Cultural Loss: The Destruction of th= e Jewish Fashion Industry in Germany and Austria*. includes 40 costumes. V= ancouver Holocaust Ed. Centre. 50-950 W. 41 St. Vancouver, BC V5Z 2N7. 804-= 264-0499. through 5/15/00.

*Woman of Fashion: Guendolen Plestcheeff Collection. Museum of History and= Industry. Seattle. through Oct 14.

~!~ R.L.Shep
http://www.rlshep.com
 --MS_Mac_OE_3019806574_117666_MIME_Part-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 12:58:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27302 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:58:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21374; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:13:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01647 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:11:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01637 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:11:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990910181112.MCEQ16271.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:11:12 -0700 Message-ID: <37D949D0.E5F853C8@home.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:11:28 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Leather doublet questions References: <37D73BA0.6C6C6B53@bc.sympatico.ca> <199909101510.JAA13174@email.boisestate.edu> <37D940B1.781CC2B5@home.com> <37D9432F.20BFC6C3@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Merouda the True of Bornover wrote: > > *I'm* waiting with bated breath to hear all about a leather > cotehardie. Ack!! Sounds hot. In more ways than one. ;-> Merouda I've got the main body almost done (center front is open still). I need to put in the lining and put on the sleeves although at this point I'm probably going to make them tie-ons. It's out of a midnight to navy blue light to medium weight leather with the suede side out. Because it's a floor length I had to use three different sides to cut it out. It's seven panels (the back was cut on the fold) and will lace up the front to a square neckline. If I'm wearing it anywhere that isn't air conditioned or cold I plan on wearing a farthingale under it to hold the skirt away from my body. It's really not that heavy and once I'm done with the GS leader uniform and find my leader handbook and get the brownie troop started and figure out how I'm going to pay for two more root canals I *may* get it done!! Oh, and the sleeves are cut to come to my knuckles with a slight flare at the bottom from the wrist. Kat the truly exhausted! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 13:02:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27331 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:02:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21940; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:16:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02363 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:14:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02347 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:14:25 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6NNKa09400 (8038) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:13:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:13:40 EDT Subject: H-COST: re: medieval miscellania To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com I don't know anything about the company, but the patterns have been around since I've been in the SCA -- 17 years. (Yikes!) I think it's safe to assume that standards have gone up in the last 17 years, although for all I know the people who drafted the patterns are all costuming geniuses. I own two but I've never used them. I've always heard that they need a LOT of work. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 13:03:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27335 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:03:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22186; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:19:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02979 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:17:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02969; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:17:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909101817.MAA02969@net.indra.com> From: "Bergdahl, Stephen" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Helpful Pets Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Bergdahl, Stephen" < but other than that, it went together smoothly and easily, even with feline interference. > Jen In know where you are coming from, except that my little four legged helpers have shorter tails and longer ears. Two rabbits, who are both, convinced that their nest should be lined with velvet, silk, with gold and silver trimmings. It is always fun to find the long piece of fabric that you are working on slowly moving off the cutting table, and out to the hall. It never fails to amaze me how much a 7LB rabbit can pull. Add to that the fact that one of them is a LONG haired white Angora. I have about given up on working on black fabric, and I have found that even white velvet will attract and show white fur. Some days I do remind both of them what lovely Muffs they would make. But most of the time they are dears to live with. Yours Stephen Bergdahl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 13:32:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27397 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:32:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26072; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:47:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09055 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:45:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA09042 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:45:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990910184730.11640.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:47:30 PDT Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 11:47:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Helpful Pets To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I'm with you on this one... two out of my four cats have decided their favorite place to sleep is my cutting table. It is the smooth white surface and is very cool for them to sleep on... of course, this means I can leave any half-cut patterns... pattern tissue is their favorite toy! sarah > < but other than that, it went together smoothly > and easily, even with > feline interference. > > > > > Jen > > In know where you are coming from, except that my > little four legged helpers > have shorter tails and longer ears. Two rabbits, who > are both, convinced > that their nest should be lined with velvet, silk, > with gold and silver > trimmings. It is always fun to find the long piece > of fabric that you are > working on slowly moving off the cutting table, and > out to the hall. It > never fails to amaze me how much a 7LB rabbit can > pull. Add to that the fact > that one of them is a LONG haired white Angora. I > have about given up on > working on black fabric, and I have found that even > white velvet will > attract and show white fur. Some days I do remind > both of them what lovely > Muffs they would make. But most of the time they are > dears to live with. > > Yours Stephen Bergdahl > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 13:52:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27433 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:52:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28557; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:07:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12482 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:02:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12448 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18111 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:01:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp227-119.worldonline.nl [195.241.227.119]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08710 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:01:57 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909101901.VAA08710@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Thursday, 9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:49:21 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Barbara Maren wrote: > People always contend that there were no buttons in the middle ages. I > don't know what kinds of buttons you mean, but when I was in the Danish > Nationalmuseet in Kopenhagen in May, they had two complete outfits on > display from the medieval period in Denmark (which began later than > elsewhere, around 1000). These outfits were obviously replicas of dresses > found at excavations or in bogs. And the sleeves did have buttons, a long > row of small fabric-covered buttons all down the outside of the underarm, > to get the narrow sleeve closed. I just don't find my notes on it. It was > 11th or 12th century. I doubt this. The cottes must have been the Hjerjolfsness ones and they date from late 13th to 14th c. This is the time that more well to do people started to use buttons. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 13:52:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27438 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:52:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28537; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:07:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12499 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:02:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12467 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18134 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:02:00 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp227-119.worldonline.nl [195.241.227.119]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08714 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:01:59 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909101901.VAA08714@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: The History of Costume Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:54:35 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Dietmar wrote: > I've made up one of the > garments this way and it worked wonderfully. I have done two a long time ago. They came out wrong, both of them. It almost looked as if Kohler never tried to make the costumes himself (or had them made), because most of the medieval ones are just not right at all. By now I can see why they are so muddled, but I couldn't then. I don't know about the ones taken from vintage costumes (not my period ;-) Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 13:52:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27439 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:52:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28564; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:07:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12486 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:02:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12429 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:01:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18078 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:01:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp227-119.worldonline.nl [195.241.227.119]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08690 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:01:54 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909101901.VAA08690@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Delurking Day Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:17:18 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, > I've been off the list for a little over a year and now finally have the > time to enjoy it once more. It's great to be back! I've been lurking so > far, but I'm sure you'll hear from me again eventually. > Welcome back, Melanie, and well done. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 13:52:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27445 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:52:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28548; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:07:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12551 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:02:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12485 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:02:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18154 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:02:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp227-119.worldonline.nl [195.241.227.119]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08721 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:02:00 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909101902.VAA08721@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: meep! Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:55:43 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi Lauri wrote: > I'm a grad student (same age as you, Dianne, > and I'd love to hear from you off the list), working on the birth of > fashion in the fourteenth century. Please tell us more, Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 13:52:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27449 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:52:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28554; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:07:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12456 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:02:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12439 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:01:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA18095 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:01:57 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp227-119.worldonline.nl [195.241.227.119]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id VAA08701 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:01:56 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909101901.VAA08701@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:46:02 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi all, Phew, that de-lurking day took some reading time... Susan wrote: > I fall somewhere in between "lurker" and "regular poster." This is > partially because of time constraints, and partially because the period I > study (11th-14th century European, with a big emphasis on the 13th century; > although I also dabble in Norse and 16th century stuff) is not one of the > ones which seems to attract as many enthusiasts (especially the 13th > century, except for Henk, of course :-) > That means we're in about the same league. Being a medieval advisor (we advise on things medieval and I mean all things, not only costume) I tended only to read about and jump in with answers for medieval stuff (1250-1350 is my specialist period) at first, but gradually got more interested in other periods too. I always liked the costume of the late tudor common man (Baldrick in Blackadder) with the beret, doublet and very full and wide kneelenghth breeches, and dito of the 1625-30 common man. Having been to Kirby Hall twice now and having seen the Tudors (a living history group) and the Sealed Knot (a bit later, but what the heck...) I am more resolved than ever. But where will I get the time? My 15th c outfit is not even finished yet... I must confess that I delete most stuff from later than 1650 and earlier than 500 (not a lot, I give you...) and Scottish kilts and Irish leines with the exception of mails on cloth, weaving and dying. I enjoy this list immensely, have the feeling I know a lot of you almost personally and am able to chuckle about a lot of the comments. Keep up the good work everybody and thank you, Penny, for this wonderful idea. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 13:52:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27453 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:52:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28542; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:07:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12979 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:03:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12970 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:03:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.161.142]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA28876 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:03:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37D9569E.8F197EC@mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:06:06 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Med Misc References: <37D89755.D69C85D8@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas I've used several of the MM patterns with relatively good luck. I don't use their directions since I build for stage work. I found that the Kirtle pattern was printed wrong. If you look at the front seamline you'll notice a break in the black line. If you just fill this in, the Kirtle prows out at the top by 3/4 inch. If the lines are put back together this is eliminated and the garment fits as it should. I mocked up for each size and did the final fit from that for my chorus members. I do my own sleeve pattern, since I like to incorporate a built in gusset for stage movement. We've also done a man's Tudor short gown (had to really let out the waist). I made an Italian overdress (high waist- 1450) that needed little re-fitting for myself. Wore it in the historic Masquerade at CostCon13 (?) in Toronto. That was the one where a Novice reproduced a Worth gown and won the whole show! -- Janice Dallas Boston, MA area JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 13:58:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27474 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:58:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00113; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:14:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14591 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:11:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-server.sugar-land.dowell.slb.com (sugar-land.dowell.slb.com [163.185.127.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14583 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:11:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from hjones-sgl ([163.188.50.83]) by mail-server.sugar-land.dowell.slb.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) ID# 0-34589U510L100S0) with SMTP id AAA105 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:07:07 -0500 Message-Id: <4.1.19990910134343.00a5e7e0@mail-server.sugar-land.dowell.slb.com> X-Sender: williamson@mail-server.sugar-land.dowell.slb.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:12:02 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Heather Jones" Subject: Re: H-COST: re: medieval miscellania In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Heather Jones" I'm sorry, I'm a day late for the "lurkers unite" party... I thought I might try to come out of the closet (so to speak) and comment here. I have heard many bad things about the Med. Misc. patterns from various people. Having tried only one and about to starting working on two others, I don't know if I like them yet or not. I have no problems with their directions, but the sizes of the different pieces do not always match up. I am thinking specifically of the men's Italian pattern (I forget which view) but the sleeve did not fit into the arm hole of the doublet (meaning the hole was too big for the sleeve). You had to use the biggest size sleeve to get it to fit. Other than that, which was easy to fix, I did not have a problem, and the doublet turned out great. As I mentioned I am going to start working on a Tudor and Elizabethan gown. Has anyone used these Med. Misc. patterns? If so, would you maybe have any hints or things to say about it? Also, do you think these patterns might ever be re-vamped, improved, or "upgraded"? Maybe a letter to the company noting the difficulties in constructing a garment from the pattern would help convince them that improvements might be needed? There, that wasn't so hard (my first post) Suannoch At 02:13 PM 9/10/99 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > >I don't know anything about the company, but the patterns have been around >since I've been in the SCA -- 17 years. (Yikes!) I think it's safe to assume >that standards have gone up in the last 17 years, although for all I know the >people who drafted the patterns are all costuming geniuses. > >I own two but I've never used them. I've always heard that they need a LOT of >work. > >Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 14:00:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27490 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:00:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00330; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:15:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14757 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:12:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14734 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:12:28 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6DKE0BQUY9 (8038) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:12:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <43abe093.250ab206@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:12:06 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Confederate Uniform Braid To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/10/1999 12:41:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, meribetha@zebra.net writes: << Everyone...thanks to a wonderful list member I now know what kind of braid..but I still have no idea what the best attachment method for it is. Help! >> Hand sew it down....like they did. Still the best method. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 14:01:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27503 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:01:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00670; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:16:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA15180 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:14:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net (svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15167 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:14:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem39.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.167] helo=herimats) by svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 11PW82-00056b-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:14:34 +0100 Message-ID: <012b01befbc0$b9b25f80$a7065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <37D73BA0.6C6C6B53@bc.sympatico.ca> <199909101510.JAA13174@email.boisestate.edu> <37D940B1.781CC2B5@home.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Leather doublet questions Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:00:14 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" I agree with everything that Kat has said but would add the following If you are skiving the edges of the leather and turning the seams , they will need te be hammered to flatten them , You should also stick them down using either a leather adhesives or a rubber solution ; In period they used a cow glue when necessary and later gutta percha; Also see if you can get a wheel fitting to replace the foot on your sewing machine, it makes life awhole lot easier. Keep your leather needle sharp by occasionaly stiching two or three stitches through some very fine 0000 "wet and dry" paper. Nottoo many as you will blunt ; Also make sure you keep the needle clean and have several spares; you will break a few of them until you get you r tension and foot pressure dead right. with slashing, remember that the stretchability of the leather differs greatly between working with the grain and againts it. Grain being the line form the tail to the head of the animal . This will also effect things when stitching to non leather material You may find that rather than just feeding through the machine , you will have to hole both pieces and push one pull the other to maintain the correct shape; It comes with a little practice. If everything seems to be going wrong tension wise, check you machine is well lubricated and then place a small pies of beeswax on to p so that your top thread will run through it especially with thicker cotton threads. Polycotton pr full poly is much better if you can want to cheat. Another trick is too rewind your shuttle thread the other way around I e balancing the Z twist and S twist I hope this helps Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 14:01:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27507 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:01:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00682; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:16:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA15204 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:14:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net (svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15182 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:14:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem39.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.167] helo=herimats) by svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 11PW83-00056b-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:14:35 +0100 Message-ID: <012c01befbc0$ba5f1a40$a7065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <005701befafe$f059b280$22aca0d1@j9g8x8> Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoe dyeing question : FOLLOWUP ? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:08:40 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" > >> -Poster: "Broneske" > >> I have a pair of black shoes made from that God-awful, man-made suede stuff > >> that makes your feet sweat, ... ... > Dave--If this is a water color, won't it come off on sweaty > feet/the socks covering them? Just wondering. Thank you for your > thoughts/experience. -- Carol > Yes; and most other things that they come into contact with. (gg but true) The only way colouring will not come off leather is when it is factory dyed, and then its not guaranteed; I once visitted the experimental section of ICI who make leather dyes and was amazed at what they had to do to get color into leather. Some of the test pieces were left in the dyeing drums rotating at high speed solidly for a fortnight. or two week in the US; Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 14:14:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27545 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:14:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02527; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:29:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18137 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:27:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18124 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:27:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA29520 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:35:24 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA27343 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:32:21 -0500 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:32:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: medieval miscellania In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 Gaelscot@aol.com wrote: > I don't know anything about the company, but the patterns have been around > since I've been in the SCA -- 17 years. (Yikes!) I think it's safe to assume > that standards have gone up in the last 17 years, although for all I know the > people who drafted the patterns are all costuming geniuses. I met the people who ran the company 15 or so years ago, through mutual friends. I did not know them well, and I never worked with them on costume, so I can't speak to their skills. However, I did gather that the quality of the patterns varied significantly from one to another, depending on many factors. To begin with, different people created different patterns, and the skill and knowledge of those people varied. And I gather that some of patternmakers were very good in certain areas and inexperienced in others, so the accuracy and success of the styles varies accordingly. I remember hearing discussion of some technical issues as well. Those of you in the fashion biz know that a prototype for a pattern is typically built on one model of a specific size and then scaled up and down from there to generate other sizes. At least some of the MM patterns were apparently drafted on to fit a very small woman; this can create problems in proportion and scaling as you go up, so the lower sizes may fit true to form, but the larger ones do not. I also remember one of the owners talking about technical hassles with the company that did the scaling and printing of the patterns; this may have affected the quality of the product. The people who did the drawings also varied in skill and experience. Another friend of mine -- a fairly skilled calligrapher/illuminator -- was hired to do the finished copy of the instructions for one of the patterns. He did not sew. He was asked to make his drawings based on sketches, not actual fabric pieces in process, and said that he had a great deal of trouble making sense of the way various pieces of fabric were supposed to be layered (this was for something like pouches or hats, I forget, where there were many pieces to be stitched and turned). My friend got the impression that the instructions had been written from memory, based on the way the patternmaker felt the item "should" go together, not necessarily the way the patternmaker had actually assembled the prototype. As a result, some of the instructions may not have been workable in life. Also, in general, some styles just don't take well to modern pattern methods without sacrificing a certain amount of authenticity, so the makers do have to make certain concessions -- which may or may not be acceptable to the buyers, and may or may not be successful in attaining the proper look and fit. That would be true for anyone trying to make modern patterns of certain medieval styles. I think the bottom line is, try them if you're willing to take your chances. It may work, it may not. It may work for you and not for someone else. It may need a little alteration, or it may be completely off-base. But you probably can't assume that your (or anyone's) experience with any one MM pattern will hold true for another. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 14:17:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27555 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:17:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02976; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:32:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18958 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:30:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18924 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:30:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11PWNR-000KW0-0C for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:30:29 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:21:53 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Leather doublet questions In-Reply-To: <37D949D0.E5F853C8@home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie Kat, we have to ask - do you have documentation for a leather cotehardie??? And what are you going to wear under it? I can only visualise this as totally skin tight, leather side to skin ... or should I go and find a fetish list? Jean > >-Poster: Kat & Kent > >Merouda the True of Bornover wrote: >> >> *I'm* waiting with bated breath to hear all about a leather >> cotehardie. Ack!! Sounds hot. In more ways than one. ;-> Merouda > >I've got the main body almost done (center front is open still). I need >to put in the lining and put on the sleeves although at this point I'm >probably going to make them tie-ons. It's out of a midnight to navy >blue light to medium weight leather with the suede side out. Because >it's a floor length I had to use three different sides to cut it out. >It's seven panels (the back was cut on the fold) and will lace up the >front to a square neckline. If I'm wearing it anywhere that isn't air >conditioned or cold I plan on wearing a farthingale under it to hold the >skirt away from my body. It's really not that heavy and once I'm done >with the GS leader uniform and find my leader handbook and get the >brownie troop started and figure out how I'm going to pay for two more >root canals I *may* get it done!! Oh, and the sleeves are cut to come >to my knuckles with a slight flare at the bottom from the wrist. > >Kat >the truly exhausted! > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 14:25:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27562 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:25:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04092; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:40:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA20485 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:37:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20477 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:37:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990910193734.NIRW16271.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:37:34 -0700 Message-ID: <37D95E0C.26CBBF67@home.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:37:48 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Leather doublet questions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Jean Waddie wrote: > > Kat, we have to ask - do you have documentation for a leather > cotehardie??? And what are you going to wear under it? I can only > visualise this as totally skin tight, leather side to skin ... or > should I go and find a fetish list? No documentation...didn't even look...just wanted to see how it would come out (I'll probably be wearing it at an SF con). I'll put a chemise under it as I do with my other cotehardies. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 14:26:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27570 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:26:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04446; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:42:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA20981 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:39:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20962 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:39:51 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnoraK@aol.com Received: from AnnoraK@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6SJGa16287 (3964) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:39:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:39:06 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: re: medieval miscellania To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnoraK@aol.com I was told that Historically Yours (the main/only? distributor of MM) owns the rights to reproduce the patterns, but not to alter them. I replaced my lost women's Ital Ren this last spring and discovered that not only were the pieces not stacked on top of each other, but they also seemed to be somewhere in the realm of usability without major alteration. I don't know if the planets were in the right alignment or what, but it was surprising. The next trip to the VA Ren Faire (where Hist. Yours has a shop), I asked they'd been corrected and was told that they hadn't been and weren't likely to be as the original designer wasn't interested in them anymore. --Jen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 15:10:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27670 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:10:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10740; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:26:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA01545 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:23:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01534 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:23:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mai040RS1.lib.ohio-state.edu (mai040rs1.lib.ohio-state.edu [128.146.115.31]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA08052 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:23:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990910162749.006fd09c@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: mhamilto@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:27:49 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Subject: Re: H-COST: Glove pattern In-Reply-To: References: <199909100235.UAA00472@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Elaine, Thank you so much for the glove info. I went to the annual juried "Faire at New Boston" held Labor Day (U.S.) at George Rogers Clark Park, close to Springfield, Ohio. It was beastly hot, almost 90 degrees, full sun, and stifling humidity but still loads of fun. The time period covered is approx. 1790-1810. I bought two "white deer" skins to attempt to make a pair of gloves to which I could attach embroidered gauntlets (Elizabeth I gloves). This is uncharted territory and may never get done but the book reference came at just the right time. Marsha (I enjoyed reading all the posts from lurkers.) ------------------------------------------------------------------- >A few weeks ago someone on this list was looking for a pattern to sew kid >gloves for herself. This evening I happened to stumble on some pretty >extensive instructions in an old library book: > >Novel Materials >Editor: David L. Harrison >(from the series: The Art of Sewing, edited >by Carlotta Erwin) >New York: Time-Life Books, 1974 > >The glove chapter falls on pages 70-83. It contains patterns, special >instructions on preparing the leather for gloves (things I'd never seen in >any other leather book!) and sewing instructions for a couple of different >glove styles. It looks quite interesting! > >Elaine >(who is also delurking for the first time tonight!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 15:21:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27688 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:21:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12624; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:37:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA04012 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:34:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04003 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:34:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-69-194.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.69.194]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15430 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37D8FCD0.C081C06D@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 12:42:59 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: How many list members? References: <19990908233456.19196.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> <010201befa59$19076160$de3daccf@e4c2n6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Penny asked: > Are our lurkers introverts???? > From the webpage article, Revenge of the Introverts > : > "Yet, silent as they may be, introverts can have a lot to say given the > right forum. They've found that the internet can help them communicate > in their preferred manner; a written dialogue with time to pause for > thought and analysis." > > Alright, introverts, stop pausing, and start talking. Let's make Thursday, > 9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day. We stop talking for ONE day, and let the > introverts speak! We are listening now, its your forum! I wasn't sure whether I belong in the lurker category or not, so I sat it out. It sure was great hearing from all the voices we don't see here often enough. I hope the simple act of posting once will help some of those lurkers get over their fear and speak up more often. ;-) The introvert/extrovert question is a good one. When I joined the SCA 8 years ago, I was very shy. Somehow, wearing dresses (okay, they're really tunics) has helped me overcome that shyness. Within a couple years I was the Castellan (newcomer representative/welcome wagon). I just recently stepped up as the herald (Master of Ceremonies) for our Barony (large CA county), so I'd better not be introverted, because it's my job to run the King's court. If I hadn't gotten over my stage fright, I could never stand there and be at the center of court. Take care, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 15:41:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27703 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:41:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15657; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:56:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA02421 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:52:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02410 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mai040RS1.lib.ohio-state.edu (mai040rs1.lib.ohio-state.edu [128.146.115.31]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA14168 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:51:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990910165555.00701018@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: mhamilto@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:55:55 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Subject: Re: H-COST: Project Pack Rat In-Reply-To: <199909092143.RAA03911@bajor.ici.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" >.........I already have 2000 yards of fabric in >my sewing room and an idea list that gets added to quicker than I can >complete the projects that are already on it. Loved it, Jessica! There are moments when I wish civilization WOULD break down over Y2K just so I could stay home and organize all the fabrics and projects! I keep collecting projects on the theory that when I retire (5 yr/10 mos.) even if no one is still doing this stuff, I'll have enough projects on hand to keep me busy until I go to that Great Fitting Room in the Sky :-} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 16:05:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27725 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:05:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19064; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:21:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA08452 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:17:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08427 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:16:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mai040RS1.lib.ohio-state.edu (mai040rs1.lib.ohio-state.edu [128.146.115.31]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA19127 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:16:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990910172058.006c3710@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: mhamilto@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:20:58 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Subject: Re: H-COST: Finishing on Slashed Edges In-Reply-To: <19990909230038.79179.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" >>Nowhere was there an indication that the edges of these slashes were >>cared for in any way (so as not to fray).... -------------- >If you slash the fabric perfectly diagonally (is this "on the bias?"), it >shouldn't fray. Especially when you do it to tightly woven fabrics.... >slashes from shoulder to waist, I would say that they would have *had* >to line them in some way. -------------- Last night I picked up my copy of "Fashion in Detail." Yes, its expensive and there are no pictures of the full garment but the close-ups are great. The book and my museum hopping bring me to the sad conclusion that some types of slashes WERE painstakingly finished on the edges. I'm working on the theory that the "pinked" type of ornamental slashing, even when quite extensive, doesn't have a visible means to stop fraying. Previously on the list, someone mentioned gum arabic or other mixtures may have been painted on the back of the fabric. (?) There is a beautiful silk diagonally slashed over-garment at the V&A that has little fraying and several examples in "Fashion in Detail." My heart sunk with dread when I realized the long "ribbon" type slashes, seen in German, Swiss, landsknecht, and women's mid-17th c. sleeves do appear to be lined and finished on the edges. (Too much work!) There is an incredible cream silk doublet with long vertical slashes in "Fashion in Detail" showing detailed finishing and lining of the long edges. [1600?] It also shows close-ups of mid-18th c. men's coats and even heavy and fulled wools had finished edges on the pockets, hems and the front centers. No unfinished edges. Of course, these are wealthy people's clothes..... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 16:16:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27740 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:16:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20738; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:31:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11503 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:29:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11467 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:28:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mai040RS1.lib.ohio-state.edu (mai040rs1.lib.ohio-state.edu [128.146.115.31]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA20980 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:28:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990910173258.007005b4@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: mhamilto@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:32:58 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 17th century In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" >To Jill of ECWS: I'm thrilled to hear that there *is* another 17th century >enthusiast on the list. It's always seemed as though I was the only one! >Kate Bunting >King's Lifeguard of Foote/ Captaine Generalls Musick, Sealed Knot -------- Jill and Kate, I do 17th c. (Cavalier Association, Columbus Ohio, US). We do ECW in the US and American colonial 17th century. This summer, went to the muster at Salem Village 1630. If I ever get to the UK again (last trip was 1984), I'd love to attend some ECW and other events! Marsha Hamilton _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 16:29:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27751 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:29:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22404; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:45:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14990 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:42:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14977 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:42:49 -0600 (MDT) From: Natekakar@aol.com Received: from Natekakar@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ATUa20497 (3966) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:42:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <10a2873d.250ad52c@aol.com> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:42:04 EDT Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: Confederate Uniform Braid To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) sub 7 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Natekakar@aol.com You can use a running stitch that is long on the inside, teeny on the topside. (Tried it once on a machine, but it's a nightmare if you already have the sleeve sewn together.) Hey! I've posted something two days in a row!!!!! K. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 16:39:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27773 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:39:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23447; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:55:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA17242 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:52:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17229 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:52:39 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16329 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:52:38 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA13073 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:52:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:52:34 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Finishing on Slashed Edges In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990910172058.006c3710@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Well, another solution is to sew the size the hole is going to be with another fabric that is only a patchwork size in that area with it. Do this over and over until the entire sleeve is covered. Slash between the narrow lines of the stiching and turn the fabric to the wrong side of the sleeve. Turn the sleeve over and start either tacking them down or sew them together for a lining. Lined is always better than fray check and lasts longer. They probably used the slashing technique on strong, closely woven fabric that would not fray easily due to the weave. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 16:53:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27807 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:53:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25389; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:09:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20477 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:06:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20463 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:06:54 -0600 (MDT) From: dawn.wood1@virgin.net Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.74.102]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990910220222.MCOM2782.mta3-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:02:22 +0100 Message-ID: <37D9E4D3.6240@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:12:51 -0700 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: re-pinking Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: dawn.wood1@virgin.net The slashes were often 'glued' along the edges by using gum arabic or gum tragacanth. Also as the pinking tools(they weren't scissors but a die you hit with a hammer) could be used hot this often sealed the edge of the fabric. I've experimented with both of these and they work _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 16:56:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27815 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:56:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25736; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:12:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21128 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:09:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21103 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:09:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.106] (ell122.acadia.net [205.217.218.106]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA07860 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:18:04 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:11:05 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: sewing leather Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> You do need to be very concerned with grain in leather, particularly with garments that fit closely (like jerkins and doublets). It's different from fabric, but it's still very important. It stretches a lot one way, and very little the other, so you need to plan very carefully. It can also stretch (strangely) across the grain. Any pinking, punching or slashing should be very small, because anything larger will act like a cut, and pull or tear further. There's no way of stabilizing, so keep them small (under 1/2 inch.) Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 17:03:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27846 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:03:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26803; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:19:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA22882 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:17:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22867 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:17:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA05853 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:14:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006901befbda$7abe80a0$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Med Misc & other things Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:18:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >Medieval Misc. patterns tend to be awful - I can't recommend them. They >say they were drafted by Laurels of the SCA but they don't say they were >drafted by *costuming* Laurels. I can't make heads or tails of them >either so they weren't drafted by calligraphy and Illumination Laurels >either. The research sheets I've always found to be useful. The patterns are another story. The smaller sizes can be acceptable if cut out of muslin and adjusted on a real person first, and I've generally found the men's patterns work better than the women's. But even if they were drafted by costume Laurels, they could still be sub-par--many of the costume Laurels I know have no particular skill in pattern drafting; they're in fact a lot better at draping on an actual person without a pattern. (Besides, pattern drafting for a modern scaled pattern isn't exactly what most people get their Laurels for :-) Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 17:04:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27850 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:04:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26953; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:20:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA22999 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:17:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22988 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:17:46 -0600 (MDT) From: Finafyr@aol.com Received: from Finafyr@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6DSAa22972 (4050) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:17:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:17:04 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: How many list members? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 29 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Finafyr@aol.com I occasionally come out of Lurk mode...I just don't wish to offend or bother...and I do have introverted tendencies Finafyr _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 17:15:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27864 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:15:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28551; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:30:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25606 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:28:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25599 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:28:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-63-254.s254.tnt3.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.63.254]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id SAA07152 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:28:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005301befbdb$72ab6f80$5b4faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <003901befba0$ffeb1c50$0cea7080@witsend2.Princeton.EDU> Subject: Re: H-COST: Button holes Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:25:52 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" WOW!!! Thanks! What a great piece of costuming trivia! Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com > button > > usually disklike piece of solid material having holes or a shank through > which it is sewed to one side of an article of clothing and used to > fasten or close the garment by passing through a loop or hole in the > other side. Purely decorative, nonutilitarian buttons are also > frequently used on clothing. > > The ancient Greeks and Etruscans fastened their tunics at the > shoulders with buttons and loops. In medieval Europe, garments > were laced together or fastened with brooches or clasps and points, > until buttonholes were invented in the 13th century. > > [rest of item truncated as inapplicable.] > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 17:40:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27892 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:40:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01566; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:56:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00776 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:52:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f197.hotmail.com [207.82.251.86]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA00764 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:52:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 66051 invoked by uid 0); 10 Sep 1999 22:52:05 -0000 Message-ID: <19990910225205.66050.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.12.82.75 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:52:04 PDT X-Originating-IP: [206.12.82.75] From: "kris .." To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Simplicity Italian Ren Pattern Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:52:04 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "kris .." ok. I have the material, and am waiting for the pattern. I am new to this list, so if it's been discussed already, sorry.. but I really want to know :] I'm making version "B" with version "A"'s sleeves out of a linen/cotton blend in a color that matches a Color Box stamp pad I've got :] "Colonial Blue". I don't have quite enough, so I'm thinking of lengthening the hem with some navy I have in the same fabric. Is this a period thing to do for It. Ren? My SCA period is 1475-1525 German, so I don't know :] Also, I was wondering if doing the trims & sleeves & my bits of underskirt that show in a color called "Tea Rose", kind of a peachy pink, and palest yellow would be ok. I realize that colors were used in excess, and they *do* look good together.. :D I am also going to fit the bodice first, and change it by making the front underbust seam straight across, and using gathers instead of the darts.. Is there a way to avoid darts and gathers altogether? oh, and pleating the skirt onto the bodice would be more accurate than the gathers, right? *grin* thanks for any and all responses! Kris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 17:42:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27897 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:42:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01741; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:57:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01308 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:55:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01248 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:54:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-94.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.94]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14429; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:53:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37D92A6F.26A9023B@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 15:57:44 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com CC: LindaYordy Subject: H-COST: Re: Leather doublet questions References: <37D73BA0.6C6C6B53@bc.sympatico.ca> <199909101510.JAA13174@email.boisestate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Linda wrote: > I've never sewn on real leather before. I've heard that I need a leather > sewing machine needle (this is very supple leather and should go through > the machine ok). I've also heard to use longer stitches than I would with > woven fabric. Leather needles are triangular in cross section which helps cut through the leather without stretching it. Longer stitches will help make the garment stronger. If the stitches are too close together, the stitches can rip out, and you'll end up with a perfect pattern in leather minus the seam allowance. > I'm thinking about using some slashing and pinking to add interest and line > it with a bright, contrasting color to show off the slashes. Any suggestions > on the slashes? I've heard of people using a sharp chisel to make quick consistent slashes. I've also heard of someone using a drill to make consistent round holes through many layered pieces at once. (Although, I'm not sure I'd recommend this) I also understand that it's a good idea to punch a round hole at the end of long slashes so that the leather is less likely to tear at the ends. > Should I keep them smaller (1/2 inch or so big) so that the leather won't > stretch? Seems to me (the book is at home so I can't reference it now) that > the pictures I've seen in Janet Arnold show the pinking and slashing to be > fairly small. Consider that the more holes that you make, the more stretch that you will have. This is true whether you have a handful of large slashes or a myriad or tiny slashes. In Germany, slashes were often larger than in England, but both were done. > As far as seams go, I was planning to use a modified flat felled seam > when sewing leather to leather - sew right sides together, trim one > seam allowance to about 1/4 inch, press both seam allowances in the same > direction with the longer one on top, then top stitch in place (just like > regular flat felled only the raw edge isn't turned under to keep bulk down). > Anyone have experience, suggestions on seaming leather? I'd recommend that you sew the seams and hammer the seams open to either side and glue the seam allowance (1/4" or so) down with barge cement. > For sewing leather to fabric lining, I was planning to just stitch as usual > (with longer stitch length). Will this work? Depends on how you are lining it. Is it a bag lining, or are you lining particular areas only? I'm not sure how you would work a bag lining. Sewing the lining around each cut out area is the best method, but incredibly tedious. > I assume I don't need to worry about grainline with leather, or do I? > I know that with synthetic suede (Ultrasuede), you can turn the pattern > pieces anyway you want. There is no grain line per se, but there are differing amounts of stretch in different parts of the hide. Some hides will have stretch marks that run in a particular direction. You will also want to work around blemishes in the surface of the hide. > I plan to use three layers: lining, interlining, and leather. Usually > when I make a doublet or bodice, I treat the lining and interlining as > one unit. Would it be better to use the interlining (which is the layer > that will show under the leather) and the leather as one unit instead. > Or does it matter? That seems like an unnecessary number of layers. I see most leather doublets as unlined. I can't see a satisfactory way of lining with that many layers, because the leather will stretch in different ways than the fabric lining. Leather stretches in the heat and shrinks in the cold, but the fabric won't. I guess that I'd rather line areas of slashing than try to line the whole thing. Perhaps you can make horizontal rows of slashing and sew the lining down with a horizontal seam between rows. The slashes don't have to be horizontal, but arranged in rows horizontally, such as: ---------- ////////// ---------- Of course, the same thing could be done vertically. Any other caveats? I don't know of anything off the top of my head, but I'll think about it over the weekend and see if I come up with anything...and see if anyone else has input. Good luck, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 18:03:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27934 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:03:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03632; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:17:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05312 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:15:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay4.hawaii.edu (relay4.hawaii.edu [128.171.94.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA05285 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:15:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uhunix1.its.hawaii.edu ([128.171.44.6]) by relay4.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <374058(1)>; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:14:50 -1000 Received: from localhost by uhunix1.its.Hawaii.Edu with SMTP id <135668(4)>; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:14:47 -1000 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 13:14:44 -1000 From: lisaleon@hawaii.edu X-Sender: lisaleon@uhunix1 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Finishing on Slashed Edges In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990910172058.006c3710@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lisaleon@hawaii.edu Marsha J. Hamilton wrote: > The book and my museum hopping bring me to the sad conclusion that some > types of slashes WERE painstakingly finished on the edges. > > My heart sunk with dread when I realized the long "ribbon" type slashes, > seen in German, Swiss, landsknecht, and women's mid-17th c. sleeves > do appear to be lined and finished on the edges. (Too much work!) There is > an incredible cream silk doublet with long vertical slashes in "Fashion > in Detail" showing detailed finishing and lining of the long edges. [1600?] and ches@io.com wrote: > Well, another solution is to sew the size the hole is going to be with > another fabric that is only a patchwork size in that area with it. Is the lining and finishing you saw done this way? This is how I was planning to do it anyway but it would be nice to know if it's accurate or if I'm just making do. annora Lisa Leong * <| lisaleon@hawaii.edu .^. * * .=.=.=. * * <| ^V V V^ <| \^ ^ ^/ | | \^ ^ ^/ | |^^^^| |^^^^| | | [] [] [] | | ":":":":...:":":":" | ~~~|________[oIo]________|~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 18:26:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27982 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:26:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06216; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:42:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09096 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:39:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09087 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:39:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p31.directcon.net [206.170.184.80]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA12685 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909102338.QAA12685@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: H-Cost: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Someone (Joan?) was asking about red satin ankle boots. If what you're looking for is Victorian styled boots, go to a bridal store that sells shoes and ask to see their catalogs. Most of them don't keep them in stock, but several styles of fabric boots are available by special order, and they can have them custom dyed to match your swatch. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 18:34:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28024 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:34:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06909; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:50:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10386 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:48:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10369 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:47:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA21637 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:47:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id TAA17338 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:48:18 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:48:17 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re-pinking In-Reply-To: <37D9E4D3.6240@virgin.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Pinking Tools? Where? I'd love to find some of these. Thanks, Drea On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 dawn.wood1@virgin.net wrote: > > -Poster: dawn.wood1@virgin.net > > The slashes were often 'glued' along the edges by using gum arabic or > gum tragacanth. Also as the pinking tools(they weren't scissors but a > die you hit with a hammer) could be used hot this often sealed the edge > of the fabric. I've experimented with both of these and they work > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 18:39:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28050 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:39:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07479; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:55:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA11165 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:53:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11157 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:53:16 -0600 (MDT) From: Nancygwyn@aol.com Received: from Nancygwyn@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6TWAa02400 (4533) for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:52:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:52:32 EDT Subject: H-COST: MM- Italian Renaissance pattern To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Nancygwyn@aol.com I bought my copy of the pattern almost ten years ago, so I cannot speak to the patterns that are currently being sold. Starting out as a fairly competent home sewer, I was able to achieve a reasonable result with the help of a friend who understood fit and was able to clue me in as far as the necessity of boning was concerned (being relatively well-endowed). Over the years I have used the bodices from the pattern as starting points since I am just know starting to learn to draft patterns. My recommendations on using this particular pattern are as follows (some of these are rather obvious to experienced costumers, but they are lessons I needed to learn): 1. Do your research first to determine exactly what the dress looks like that you want to make. Although the drawings on the pattern are helpful, looking at the original artwork will give you many more ideas as to fabric and drape as well as decoration and color. Note: not all the dresses shown on the instruction sheet can be made from the pattern pieces, particularly the later fashions (post 1500). 2. Adjust the flat pattern to fit your measurements. I would recommend making a copy of the original as it is unlikely that the first pattern will be completely correct for you. (I concentrate on the bodice and admit that I have not used the skirt pattern.) 3. Make a muslin from this pattern. Have a friend who knows fit and understands the look you are trying to achieve fit the muslin on you. Pay particular attention to the shoulders that you are getting the right line and support. Remember that Italian Renaissance bodices fit very snugly (mistake #1 that I see in most SCA versions- they do not fit tightly enough). Note: Wearing an undergarment that will at the very least approximate what you plan to wear is critical. Although I used to build all the support in to the dress, I now wear a fabric corselette (no bones) to control and support my bust. You will also need to make a muslin of the sleeve to ensure that it fits you and the bodice before cutting out your fashion fabric. This is also the time to make sure that you know how you plan to do the sleeves, a major feature of Italian Ren dresses. 4. Make adjustments to your flat pattern. Remember to cut out the bodice with the center front and back on the straight of the grain. 5. Whether you decide to put in boning or not (slender ladies may not need it), I would recommend using an interlining to give a better shape and stability to the bodice. Definitely use one if there will be no corselette. 6. Note: even on the dresses that do not specify linings to the sleeves I would carefully consider adding one in order to achieve the proper drape of the sleeve. 7. As noted above, I have not used the skirt pattern. The second most common mistake I see in the SCA is not enough fabric used in the skirt. Although I have used two 45" widths of a heavy fabric in my skirts, I now generally try to use three fabric widths. One friend, a Renaissance costuming Laurel, suggested the general rule of 4x the underbust. 8. Fastenings: I recommend using brass Roman drapery rings to either lace up the front or side. I have also used hook and eye tape, on occasion supplementing them with decorative hooks and eyes to distract from the modern ones. Based on my research I have never seen an Italian lace up the center back. The lacing on the side back seams appears to have originated sometime in the 1530s (anyone who can cite an earlier version please let me know; it would simplify my next dress!). I hope these are helpful to those using this pattern or doing Renaissance women's dress in general. If you have specific questions concerning one of the views, please contact me. I have worked with almost all of them at some point. There, I de-lurked! Nancy Stengel (Maddalena Salutati in the SCA) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 18:40:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28059 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:40:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07506; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:55:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA11203 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:53:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail3.anet.net (mail3.anet.net [216.2.98.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11194 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:53:28 -0600 (MDT) From: rima@anet.net Received: from [216.2.96.43] by mail3.anet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0); Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:00:42 -0800 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909102252.QAA00813@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:53:45 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Dress forms Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rima@anet.net Hi again Well, after full intending to lurk, I find myself all over the list with questions: OK, so who knows of a terrific dress form that 's out there, that's easily adjustable between two women's sizes - my friend and I wanna share, but she's 4 inches taller and thinner! Am I dreaming??? I was looking at this one: http://farthingales.on.ca/judy.htm Anybody have any thoughts on how well this might work? Anybody own one??? Rima _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 19:00:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28076 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:00:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09657; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:16:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA14324 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:14:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14318 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:14:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-61.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.61]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA12313 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:13:55 -0700 Message-ID: <001301befbea$dae4cf60$3daba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Victorian Dress Book Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:16:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" Not sure which Joan this was directed to (Jurancich or me) but if it was for me....been there, done that, sitting on my bookshelf :-) Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 19:07:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28128 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:07:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10274; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:23:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA15317 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:21:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15311 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:21:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-61.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.61]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA12561 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:21:15 -0700 Message-ID: <003501befbeb$e0f6a760$3daba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Strike is over!!! Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:23:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" Stepford Moms!!! I love it!!! Too true!! Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 19:18:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28139 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:18:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11369; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:34:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA16729 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:31:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16718 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:31:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-61.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.61]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA12913 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:31:41 -0700 Message-ID: <009401befbed$5670b340$3daba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:33:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" Ah, excellent idea! (Margo and Teddy) I think I shall do just that! I don't know why I am always so durned obsessed with accessories and props!! Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 19:37:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28157 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:37:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12334; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:53:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19076 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:50:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19069 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:50:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.148] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11PbNU-0000aM-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:50:53 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:49:01 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: re-pinking In-Reply-To: <37D9E4D3.6240@virgin.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 10:12 PM 09/10/1999, dawn.wood1@virgin.net wrote: The slashes were often 'glued' along the edges by using gum arabic or gum tragacanth. Also as the pinking tools(they weren't scissors but a die you hit with a hammer) could be used hot this often sealed the edge of the fabric. I've experimented with both of these and they work Wow--a die...anyone know of any craftsmen who might be making these? Or, alternately, happen to have handy the recipes for gum arabic/gum tragacanth? Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 19:54:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28167 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:54:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13761; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:10:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA21040 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:07:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay20.smtp.psi.net (relay20.smtp.psi.net [38.8.20.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21025 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:07:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.119.75.41] (helo=kdp.tiac.net) by relay20.smtp.psi.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11Pbd0-0003F5-00; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:07:10 -0400 From: "John Page" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Wool Question Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:57:08 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "John Page" > >Does anyone know of any uses in medieval/renaissance periods of a > >lightweight wool such as a gabardine? It's really lovely material and if I > >was inclined to make myself a dress suit, it would be of this material. As > >it turns, I was intending to make some capes and trews from it and wanted a > >heavier weight. I think that wools weren't commonly heavily fulled till the 14th C -- properly felt was made from unspun wool. Kristin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 20:29:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28214 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:29:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16823; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:45:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25338 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:42:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25329 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:42:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.38 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:41:42 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Victorian "Fancy Dress" Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:32:18 -0400 Message-ID: <000101befbf8$2f640da0$260bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <215d042b.2509eca0@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Try *The Book of Costume, or Annals of Fashion" (1846) by A Lady of Rank (The Countess of Wilton), annotated and published by R.L. Shep, ISBN 0-914046-04-7. Early research on world costume over a range of centuries. Got mine through Amazon.com. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of JPMcTeer@aol.com > Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 1:10 AM > To: h-costume-digest@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Victorian "Fancy Dress" > > > > -Poster: JPMcTeer@aol.com > > I have committed to do a (slide) lecture for the local > Victorian Society in > October on ideas for costumes for our Victorian "masked ball" > next January. > I have found Planche 1881and Strutt (rare book room) in our > library catalogs, > as well as the Butterick Masquerade book for 1892. I > purchased the new book > on Canadian "Magnificent Entertainments" by Cynthia Cooper. I > haven't checked > yet on the dates, but I think that Vecellio, Racinet, and > Braun & Schneider > came out before 1900 (and are now in Dover reprint.) > > This is only a 45 minute lecture, but I would like to make a > listing of books > (especially cheap Dover reprints) for a handout. What have I > missed? Is > there anything with color plates? > > Does anyone want to sell me copies of their slides? > > As you might know, I usually lecture and do workshops on > corsets and other > "body-shaping garments" so I don't have much on this topic, > unless I own the > books for some other reason. I haven't had time to check > them all yet. > > Thanks to you all for delurking and for the useful thread on > the Laughing > Moon corset, chemise, and kit. I too am a very satisfied customer of > Farthingales for supplies. > > Joan McTeer > Minneapolis > (who by now has missed the 9/9/99 deadline!) > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 20:29:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28217 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:29:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16819; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:45:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25306 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:42:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25294 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:42:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.38 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:41:32 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Cc: Subject: H-COST: RE: Bag Sleeves on Leines Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 07:34:56 -0400 Message-ID: <000001befbf8$245ba6c0$260bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19990909223950.015b41bc@mail.tds.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The bag sleeve probably appeared on the leine about the same time it appeared in fashion elsewhere, or perhaps somewhat later. The de Heere water colors show them, and there are some woodcuts of them too 1400-1600. Without Dunbar and McClintock and Packenham on my desk, I can't be more specific. The bag sleeve may have appeared somewhat earlier, but I'd have to check those references for better precision. The bag sleeve appears to have been worn only by the Anglo-Irish, soldiers of upper rank. Other styles of leine sleeves were worn in the same time period by poorer, less fashionable people. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Anne Gast > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 1999 6:40 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST:De-Lurking > > > > -Poster: Anne Gast <> > > OK, I have built my courage enough to delurk. This is worse > than talking > to a room full of people. (I guess, this is talking to more than a > roomful.) > > I make costumes for IFGS and Magic Horizens, my live action, > live combat > (foam weapons, no pain), medieval/fantasy role-playing groups. > > I lurk because I feel I don't know enough to contribute, but I love > learning from this list and from the books recommended. I especially > enjoyed the Irish costuming threads. > > I have wondered when the bagged sleeves on leines started > appearing. Or > conversely, what period is it appropiate not to have them? > > Anne > Madison, Wisconsin > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 20:37:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28223 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:37:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17722; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:53:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA26366 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:51:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26360 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:51:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA05044 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:51:05 -0700 Received: from 206-132-49-95.nas-1.SCF.primenet.com(206.132.49.95), claiming to be "smadsenprimenet.com" via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdcvC.Ma; Fri Sep 10 18:51:03 1999 Message-ID: <00c801befbf7$ff2289a0$3c3084ce@com> From: "Lee" To: Subject: H-COST: Leather doublet questions Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:49:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Lee" Hi all-- I'm pretty new to the list, and so far a lurker. I'm planning on doing some leather and suede doublets myself, and since I sew professionally, much of it leather, I thought I might help. I'm planning on doing the Janet Arnold doublet with the layer of flower cutwork for one of them... Did you know you can make suede harem pants? Probably not period, but interesting for modern wear. The patterns I use take about 35 square feet per pair. >I've never sewn on real leather before. I've heard that I need a >leather sewing machine needle (this is very supple leather and >should go through the machine ok). I've also heard to use longer >stitches than I would with woven fabric. > I =don't= use a leather needle, and I've been sewing leather for a decade! I find that a heavy topstitching needle works best, a 110/18. I don't use a leather needle because if you have to move any stitching, the holes will close up most of the time on suede and be less noticeable on leather. Leather needles leave a triangular hole that I actually had start rips in some leather. I used the same stitch length as sewing cloth. I also use really heavy duty thread (which is why you need topstitching needles that have large eyes). You can get it in tiny spools at some sewing stores, and I forget what it's called, but it's used for upholstery and canvas. I by it in large cones at an industrial/upholstery supply shop. Cones are only about $5-6 dollars and they last for ages. They work fine with a home sewing machine if you get a cone thread holder. Any topstitching I do with regular thread, so I can get away with using black heavy thread for most dark colors. >As far as seams go, I was planning to use a modified flat felled >seam when sewing leather to leather - sew right sides together, >trim one seam allowance to about 1/4 inch, press both seam >allowances in the same direction with the longer one on top, then >top stitch in place (just like regular flat felled only the raw edge isn't >turned under to keep bulk down). Anyone have experience, >suggestions on seaming leather? For sewing leather to fabric >lining, I was planning to just stitch as usual (with longer stitch >length). Will this work? > Some home machines don't want to go through very many layers of even light suede or leather, and if they do, odds are good the tension will give you fits. My home machine sewed many a garment, but I had to baby it sometimes, and it still needs repairs from an elkhide vest I agreed to do at a foolish moment years ago. Home tanned thick, nasty stuff that clung to the needle and threw the tension off all the time. I use a Bernina industrial now, but I really should get out my Thomsons mini-industrial leather sewing machine and get used to it... Anyway, I use half inch seams and open them and glue them. I use Aleene's Tacky Glue for work, but I might used contact cement for something that I thought would get a lot of use and drycleaning. >I assume I don't need to worry about grainline with leather, or do I? >I know that with synthetic suede (Ultrasuede), you can turn the >pattern pieces anyway you want. > In suede it matters! Also, different parts of the skin take dye differently sometimes, so watch to see that one end isn't darker and thicker than the other (usually toward what was the back end of the animal). I cut pants with a piecing line halfway down each leg at an angle, and I try to cut the top of the pants at the top or neck/shoulder area and lower legs below. Other than that, I'm going to be finding out myself... Kels _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 20:40:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28229 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:40:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17995; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:56:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA26715 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:53:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ecom.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26706 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:53:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port13.imag.net [204.244.111.13]) by ecom.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA18575 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:57:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00f201befbf8$aabfa4a0$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: "historic costuming" Subject: H-COST: Handsewing question Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 18:55:02 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Hello. I missed the de-lurking day, but reading all the posts tonight was inspiring! I have posted maybe twice in the time I've been reading and learning from this list, about 6 months. So, I join in the group of people saying *Hi! I'm lurking but I have a question!!". I have an amazing way with sewing machines - have broken 4 in the last year. Even on of the indestructible black Singer straight sew models. Now I handsew everything, and found that I really like handsewing much more than working with a machine. This works well with the 20th century Norse costuming I've been doing, but the thought of doing later period clothing worries me. Has anyone handsewn a corset, dresses or doublet? Any advice would be helpful. Especially about handsewing in an authentic manner (if I'm stuck doing it, why not have a little fun with it!!) or materials or methods to avoid. Zelda Interests: 10th Century Scandinavia and York, Early Elizabethan, 1560 - 1570 Spanish and trying to find information about 1400 to 1500 Dutch/Netherlands, of all classes. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 20:52:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28590 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:52:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19700; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:08:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28095 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:05:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f169.hotmail.com [216.32.181.169]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA28090 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:05:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 82096 invoked by uid 0); 11 Sep 1999 02:05:05 -0000 Message-ID: <19990911020505.82095.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.100.57.121 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:05:04 PDT X-Originating-IP: [216.100.57.121] From: "J. Karnelian" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Santa Cruz Renaissance clothes -Lothlorien Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:05:04 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "J. Karnelian" I am looking for contact information for a Renaissance/gothic clothing store in Santa Cruz which I think is called Lothlorien. Or something similar. The owner is a woman named Lorian. My girlfriend makes clothes and she was told that this store might be interested in her stuff. If anyone knows the adress for their website, or their e-mail, or their phone number, or regular postal adress, we would appreciate that information a lot. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 20:53:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28594 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:53:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19704; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:08:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28161 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:06:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA28155 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:06:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Fri Sep 10 19:05:57 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:05:57 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.36.145 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" I'm not sure what style or exact color of red we are talking about. But I was recently looking for bridal shoes online and I came across...hmm http://www.peterfox.com I believe it was, anyway they are the people that made the pinkish-red boots that Kate winslet wears in the titanic movie (with the jump dress I think they said) anyway they sell them on their website, the same style also comes in white it you wanted it hand dyed to a different color. --- Ginnaphure ICQ# 41340093 "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 16:38:27 Margo Anderson wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >Someone (Joan?) was asking about red satin ankle boots. If what you're >looking for is Victorian styled boots, go to a bridal store that sells shoes >and ask to see their catalogs. Most of them don't keep them in stock, but >several styles of fabric boots are available by special order, and they can >have them custom dyed to match your swatch. > >Margo > >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 21:04:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28605 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:04:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21100; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:19:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA29434 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:16:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29429 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:16:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.78]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:16:40 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/18C stays and shoulder straps Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:16:35 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37dcb8ff.247391605@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <199909101648.JAA27161@zeus.directcon.net> In-Reply-To: <199909101648.JAA27161@zeus.directcon.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id UAA29430 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:48:40 -0700 (PDT), the following was written in this electric book by Margo Anderson : > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >.. a whole >>reel of 1/2" reed costs about 7 bucks & makes dozens of corsets, with 30 to >>40 bones apiece. Just cut them to length, round off the ends, rub them with >>wax, and insert. > >Do you have a mail order source for reed? > >Margo It can be purchased at many large craft supply stores ( such as Michael's, Hobby Lobby, JoAnn's etc in the basketweaving supplies if the store near you carries such supplies) and may, if you are in a large metropolitan area, possibly also be found under basketry or chair-cane repair in the telephone directory. You want the half-round kind so that you will not look like you are corrugated once you take it off... ;) Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 21:24:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28647 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:24:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22602; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:39:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01904 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:37:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.wireweb.net (mail.wireweb.net [216.3.229.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01897 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:37:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail.wireweb.net from localhost (router,SLMail V3.2); Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:35:35 -0500 Received: by mail.wireweb.net from dragonlair (216.3.231.220::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:35:34 -0500 Message-ID: <37D9C13A.4842@wireweb.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:40:58 -0500 From: "Alexandria Doyle" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re-pinking References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SLUIDL: C80BDF60-675D11D3-BB370040-33537EE5 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Alexandria Doyle" Carol J. Bell Cannon wrote: > > -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > At 10:12 PM 09/10/1999, dawn.wood1@virgin.net wrote: The slashes were > often 'glued' along the edges by using gum arabic or gum tragacanth. Also > as the pinking tools(they weren't scissors but a die you hit with a hammer) > could be used hot this often sealed the edge of the fabric. I've > experimented with both of these and they work > Wow--a die...anyone know of any craftsmen who might be making > these? Or, alternately, happen to have handy the recipes for gum > arabic/gum tragacanth? Carol > _________________________________________________________________ There is a gentleman here in Ansteorra, that made that leather doublet from Janet Arnorlds Patterns of fashion, complete with the pinking and slashes, etc. He got the dies from a leather working place. Alexandria _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 21:36:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28659 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:36:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23628; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:52:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA03372 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:49:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03366 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:49:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.140] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11PdEM-0001du-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:49:35 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:47:44 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Wool Question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 08:57 PM 09/10/1999, Poster: "John Page" aka Kristin, replied to this question: Does anyone know of any uses in medieval/renaissance periods of a lightweight wool such as a gabardine? saying: I think that wools weren't commonly heavily fulled till the 14th C -- properly felt was made from unspun wool. Kristin--So gabardine is a heavily fulled wool? I don't spin and don't know nearly enough about textiles. I appreciate every bit of help I get to learn...thank you in advance. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 21:42:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28666 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:42:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24351; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:58:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA04140 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:55:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04130 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:55:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p12.directcon.net [206.170.184.111]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA03360 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:54:20 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:54:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909110254.TAA03360@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Bag Sleeves on Leines Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I believe that there is often some confusion as to what is meant by "bag sleeves" To some people, it means a very wide sleeve with the end sewn up most of the way, forming a bag. But...to some people, especially when discussing leines, a "bag sleeve" may mean a sleeve that has gathers along the top of the arm, so that when worn, it resembles a drawstring bag. this is the meaning I was thinking of when on several occasions, I have stated that leines did not have bag sleeves. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 21:59:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28672 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:59:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25850; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:13:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA06015 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:11:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from edtnps04.telusplanet.net (edtnps04.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.104]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06009 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:11:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clgrtnt2-port-326.agt.net ([161.184.44.72]:1032 "HELO Freya") by smtp1.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <70095-25806>; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:10:50 -0600 X-Sender: agottfre@pop.telusplanet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: H-COST: Delurking day delayed X-Mailer: Message-Id: <19990911031059Z70095-25806+37@smtp1.telusplanet.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:10:50 -0600 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) What's a poor introvert to do? I sent this message yesterday, and it vanished into cyber-limbo. Here we go again: I usually lurk, because my interest area is pretty darn obscure : the dress of the mixed-blood (i.e. half-breed) 'country wives' of Canadian fur traders, 1774-1821. My last project was sewing a new, more historically correct pair of knee-high leggins of red Melton cloth just in time for Rocky Mountain House's bicentennial in July. Then Joan Jurancich (hi!) very politely pointed out I was wearing them the wrong way around. Thanks, Joan! (Really!) And thanks to everyone who's answered the questions I've occasionally posted to the list over the last three years. Your obliged and obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 22:03:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28683 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:03:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26200; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:16:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA06178 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:12:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06172 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:12:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vaxxine.com (ppp80.analg-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.212.178]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA10447 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:12:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37C85B3D.E95ED03@vaxxine.com> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:57:17 -0500 From: Sheridan Alder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Canadian iceman redux References: <009401befbed$5670b340$3daba0d1@j9g8x8> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------E4A2D44238D2CADA06EE8D71" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sheridan Alder --------------E4A2D44238D2CADA06EE8D71 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings everyone: I'm kinda late for 09-09-99. An introvert, and damn proud of it, I only post when I feel I can make a contribution or pick people's brains. Besides, it's hard enough to wrestle my husband off ebay, (wasting our hard-earned sustenance - it would be cheaper if he drank and ran around with wild women), long enough for me read the e-mail. Sigh! I wanted him to become more computer literate, but I created a monster! As well, if I was a regular participant, members might ask me how the such n' such project was going, and I would be forced to admit it has joined the ranks of my other 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and 99.9% finished projects! Although it appears as if I'm not the only one who doesn't finish a costume until the morning of an event. Not long ago someone posted a message regarding news of another "iceman" discovered in British Columbia. I'm ashamed to admit that I shrugged it off as another internet rumour - after all I'm Canadian, and I haven't heard anything about it! Time went by, and no one on the list responded, and there was nothing in the news about it. My opinion was confirmed. Much to my surprise, a recent issue of the American journal "Science" had a brief article on the discovery. Unfortunately, idiot girl galloped out the door ("It's Friday, blessed Friday, yippee!) without her backpack containing the article. >From memory - the body was discovered August 14th in a glacier in northern BC by hikers, and is now in storage in the Yukon until native groups and researchers reach an agreement on how to research it. The article suggested it was expected that an amicable agreement could be reached, unlike the case of Kennewick (Kessewick?) man, a controversial U.S.find. The body was reported as wearing a finely woven hat and a cloak of small pelts similar to squirrel or groundhog. A spear thrower was also found. The body could be as old as 10,000 years old or as recent as the early European occupation. "Science" is published by the American Association for the Advancement of Science, relying on my unreliable memory, and they have a web page with access to a few, but not all, of their articles. Off-topic - I'm rather annoyed that this has received so little coverage in the Canadian media. Sometimes this self-effacing Canadian attitude goes a little too far, (speaking as an ardent Canadian nationalist) especially when it involves such an interesting find. Recently there was a book published on Canadian social attitudes called "Sex in the Snow". A catchy title, and I can't help but wonder if this iceman didn't meet his end.... And my apologies to the original poster, who ever you are! I will never doubt you again. Sheridan Alder --------------E4A2D44238D2CADA06EE8D71 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings everyone:

I'm kinda late for 09-09-99. An introvert, and damn proud of it, I only post
when I feel I can make a contribution or pick people's brains. Besides,
it's hard enough to wrestle my husband off ebay, (wasting our hard-earned
sustenance - it would be cheaper if he drank and ran around with wild
women), long enough for me read the e-mail. Sigh! I wanted him to become
more computer literate, but I created a monster! As well, if I was a regular
participant, members might ask me how the such n' such project was
going, and I would be forced to admit it has joined the ranks of my other 1/4,
1/2, 3/4, and 99.9% finished projects! Although it appears as if I'm not the only
one who doesn't finish a costume until the morning of an event.

Not long ago someone posted a message regarding news of another
"iceman" discovered in British Columbia. I'm ashamed to admit that
I shrugged it off as another internet rumour - after all I'm Canadian,
and I haven't heard anything about it! Time went by, and no one on
the list responded, and there was nothing in the news about it. My
opinion was confirmed.

Much to my surprise, a recent issue of the American journal "Science"
had a brief article on the discovery. Unfortunately, idiot girl galloped out the
door ("It's Friday, blessed Friday, yippee!) without her backpack containing
the article.

From memory - the body was discovered August 14th in a glacier in
northern BC by hikers, and is now in storage in the Yukon until native
groups and researchers reach an agreement on how to research it. The
article suggested it was expected that an amicable agreement could be
reached, unlike the case of Kennewick (Kessewick?) man, a controversial
U.S.find.

The body was reported as wearing a finely woven hat and a cloak of small
pelts similar to squirrel or groundhog. A spear thrower was also found.
The body could be as old as 10,000 years old or as recent as the early
European occupation.

"Science" is published by the American Association for the Advancement of
Science, relying on my unreliable memory, and they have a web page with
access to a few, but not all, of their articles.

Off-topic - I'm rather annoyed that this has received so little coverage in the
Canadian media. Sometimes this self-effacing Canadian attitude goes a little
too far, (speaking as an ardent Canadian nationalist) especially when it involves
such an interesting find.

Recently there was a book published on Canadian social attitudes called
"Sex in the Snow". A catchy title, and I can't help but wonder if this iceman
didn't meet his end....

And my apologies to the original poster, who ever you are! I will never doubt you
again.

Sheridan Alder --------------E4A2D44238D2CADA06EE8D71-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 22:48:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28703 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:48:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01509; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:04:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA11641 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:01:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11630 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:01:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sue.computercrafters.com (pm3frd1-68-103.intrepid.net [206.102.68.103]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA09382 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:01:29 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990911000513.007c8100@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:05:13 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: Re: H-COST: re-pinking In-Reply-To: References: <37D9E4D3.6240@virgin.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sue Shatto Carol, I bought one from the lady that publishes Dressmaker Magazine. There are 2 or 3 styles. I think they were $35. Her husband makes them, so they are advertised in the magazine. maybe someone will have a name and number for you. At 05:49 PM 9/10/99 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > >At 10:12 PM 09/10/1999, dawn.wood1@virgin.net wrote: The slashes were >often 'glued' along the edges by using gum arabic or gum tragacanth. Also >as the pinking tools(they weren't scissors but a die you hit with a hammer) >could be used hot this often sealed the edge of the fabric. I've >experimented with both of these and they work > Wow--a die...anyone know of any craftsmen who might be making >these? Or, alternately, happen to have handy the recipes for gum >arabic/gum tragacanth? Carol > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 22:49:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28707 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:49:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01778; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:05:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA11864 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:03:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11853 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:03:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([208.255.162.248]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990911040306.XDXF24367@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:03:06 +0000 Message-ID: <37D9D225.3634DEAC@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 20:53:09 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re-pinking References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Carol J. Bell Cannon wrote: > -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > At 10:12 PM 09/10/1999, dawn.wood1@virgin.net wrote: The slashes were > often 'glued' along the edges by using gum arabic or gum tragacanth. Also > as the pinking tools(they weren't scissors but a die you hit with a hammer) > could be used hot this often sealed the edge of the fabric. I've > experimented with both of these and they work Singer used to make a pinking attachment for their standard low shank machines. They come up on eBay every now and then. For cloth this might be the ticket for long pinked slashes or seams - you basically run the fabric thru like you're sewing it but it pinks it instead. > Wow--a die...anyone know of any craftsmen who might be making > these? Or, alternately, happen to have handy the recipes for gum > arabic/gum tragacanth? Carol > I'm sure for leather workers they can probably get a die made for pinking. Gum arabic is easily available from art supply stores. It's used for binding pigments in paints, particularly watercolors, gouache, or tempera. Winsor Newton makes a liquid form of it (premixed, ready to go) that Aaron Bros or Michaels would carry in most of their stores. If you want to mix it yourself you can buy it in powdered form from Pen and Ink Books or Sinopia. Gum tragacanth can probably be had from Sinopia or other pigment dealers online (don't have the websites handy but can get them). Carolyn (who also does illumination and just got some powdered gum arabic from Pen and Ink, but also has the liquid around). _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 22:52:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28713 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:52:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01980; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:08:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12284 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:06:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12276 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:06:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.5 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:05:21 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Button holes, Danish and Irish buttons Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:13:23 -0400 Message-ID: <001401befc0c$42a884e0$260bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <00a901befb97$08619940$4b3daccf@e4c2n6> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I got goosebumps reading Ms. Winkler's earlier post this evening about the buttons all the way up the outside of a medieval Danish sleeve. Mairead Dunlevy has a photograph in her wonderful book *Dress in Ireland* of a man's (Irish) coat of similar or only slightly later period with what sounds like the same detail. She emphasized that the buttons were not functional, but decorative. I don't know where Mr. Hitchcock got "100 years" from, but I have read that buttons started as a decorative thing, and only later became functional. My memory is a little fuzzy on this point, but I would hazard that Arnold, Tarrant, and Dunlevy have all written that buttons preceded buttonholes. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Penny Ladnier > Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 10:16 AM > To: h-costume > Subject: H-COST: Button holes > > > > -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > > I was watching Alfred Hitchcock presents the other night. > Mr. Hitchcock > stated that buttons were invented 100 years prior to > buttonholes. Is this > true??? > > Later... Penny > http://www.costumegallery.com > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 22:55:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29089 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:55:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02189; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:10:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12536 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:08:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12316; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:06:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-61-106.s106.tnt1.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.61.106]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA09906; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:06:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002001befc0a$aa933840$6a3daccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Cc: "Vintage" , "Wear digest" , "WearableArt" , "h-needlework" , "Fantasy" Subject: H-COST: An event Monday Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:03:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I just received this late message, so I hope you all can view this: September 15, 1999 at 3:30pm EST The Ohio State University's Historic Costume and Textiles Collection in the College of Human Ecology will broadcast the premiere of "Scaasi: The Joy of Dressing Up," a video presentation of the Collection's exhibition from October 8, 1998 through February 27, 1999. We invite you to participate in this interactive video streaming event and contribute your thoughts, questions, and comments. Gayle Strege, Curator of the Historic Costume and Textiles Collection will be in the site's chat room to answer any questions you might have about the exhibition. For more information, visit our website at http://video.hec.ohio-state.edu/index.html. It is highly recommended that you check out the website prior to the broadcast, as you may need to download software. For technical assistance contact Eva Bradshaw at bradshaw.3@osu.edu. Gayle Strege Curator, Historic Costume & Textiles Collection 175 Campbell Hall 1787 Neil Avenue Columbus, OH 43210-1295 (614) 292-3090 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 22:58:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29093 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:58:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02436; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:14:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12961 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:11:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12955 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:11:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([208.255.162.248]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990911041101.XGRV24367@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:11:01 +0000 Message-ID: <37D9D3FF.B9E9966E@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:01:03 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Italian Ren Pattern References: <19990910225205.66050.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson kris .. wrote: > -I'm making version "B" with version "A"'s sleeves out of a linen/cotton > blend in a color that matches a Color Box stamp pad I've got :] "Colonial > Blue". I don't have quite enough, so I'm thinking of lengthening the hem > with some navy I have in the same fabric. Is this a period thing to do for > It. Ren? My SCA period is 1475-1525 German, so I don't know :] Better would be to make the sleeves or bodice out of a different color than lengthening the hem. Sleeves were often contrasting fabrics - bodices also, but seen less often than different colored sleeves. If you can squeeze a bodice AND skirt out of the fabric you have, go for it. If there's only enough for the skirt, I think I'd use Dress A or C's bodice which has an insert that can be a different color. > Also, I was > wondering if doing the trims & sleeves & my bits of underskirt that show in > a color called "Tea Rose", kind of a peachy pink, and palest yellow would be > ok. I realize that colors were used in excess, and they *do* look good > together.. :D Colonial blue (whatever that is), peachy pink and pale yellow sounds very Victorian to me. Italian used colors "in excess" as you say and they liked them bright. Colonial blue would work real well for Italian Ren with *red* sleeves or *bright* yellow. I've seen several paintings of women wearing red dresses with blue sleeves so no reason you couldn't do it in reverse (I'm sure I've seen that too). > I am also going to fit the bodice first, and change it by making the front > underbust seam straight across, and using gathers instead of the darts.. Is > there a way to avoid darts and gathers altogether? Make a corset to go under it. That'll take care of those darts and gathers. I wear Italian Ren all the time (usually the long waisted kind, not the high waisted like in teh Simplicity pattern) - my pattern is 2 pieces, front and back joined at the seams. And I'm a 38 DD. But I always wear a corset. > oh, and pleating the skirt onto the bodice would be more accurate than the > gathers, right? damn right. Cartridge pleating it would be even better. Carolyn (aka Tetchubah) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 23:02:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29104 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:02:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02880; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:18:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA13455 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:15:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13447 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:15:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([208.255.162.248]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990911041524.XICM24367@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:15:24 +0000 Message-ID: <37D9D506.79213505@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:05:26 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Leather doublet questions References: <37D73BA0.6C6C6B53@bc.sympatico.ca> <199909101510.JAA13174@email.boisestate.edu> <37D940B1.781CC2B5@home.com> <37D9432F.20BFC6C3@serv.net> <37D949D0.E5F853C8@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Kat & Kent wrote: > -Poster: Kat & Kent > > I've got the main body almost done (center front is open still). I need > to put in the lining and put on the sleeves although at this point I'm > probably going to make them tie-ons. It's out of a midnight to navy > blue light to medium weight leather with the suede side out. Because > it's a floor length I had to use three different sides to cut it out. > It's seven panels (the back was cut on the fold) and will lace up the > front to a square neckline. If I'm wearing it anywhere that isn't air > conditioned or cold I plan on wearing a farthingale under it to hold the > skirt away from my body. Maybe it's just me but a *farthingale*under*a*cotehardie*?? Are you mad, woman? I don't mean to sound rude but these 2 garments are at least a hundred years apart. No flame intended but I think you really should stick to wearing it at SF cons, because undoubtedly someone at Ren Faire or SCA would make rude comments. Stick to lining it with something comfortable and wear a chemise under it - or develop a very thick skin (pun intended). Carolyn/Tetchubah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 23:04:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29112 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:04:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03096; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:20:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA13697 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:18:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13685 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:17:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.61 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:16:50 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: RE: Bag Sleeves on Leines Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:25:28 -0400 Message-ID: <001701befc0d$daff6e60$260bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <199909110254.TAA03360@zeus.directcon.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Good point, Margo. I don't really know what the poster meant by a "bagged sleeve." The bag sleeve is a pretty widely used historical term, where the sleeve is cartridge pleated or gathered into the armscye and then hangs long, gathered tight together at the "wrist." The forearm extends out a bound and emboridered slot in the front of the sleeve, while the dangling remainder may be used like a pocket. Pretty widely found in fashionable velvet, wool, linen garments, women's, but especially mens, in Western Europe 1400 (approx) to 1600 (approx). Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Margo Anderson > Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 10:54 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Bag Sleeves on Leines > > > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > > I believe that there is often some confusion as to what is > meant by "bag > sleeves" To some people, it means a very wide sleeve with > the end sewn up > most of the way, forming a bag. But...to some people, especially when > discussing leines, a "bag sleeve" may mean a sleeve that has > gathers along > the top of the arm, so that when worn, it resembles a > drawstring bag. this > is the meaning I was thinking of when on several occasions, I > have stated > that leines did not have bag sleeves. > > Margo > > > "One Tough Costumer" > http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 23:15:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29121 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:15:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04036; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:31:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14820 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:29:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from c2smtp.kentlaw.edu (c2smtp.kentlaw.edu [192.148.222.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14809 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:29:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: X-SMF-Message-ID: A893D93701AA3400 X-SMF-Hop-Count: 1 Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:26:00 -0500 From: KATHARINE WHISLER To: h-costume@indra.com X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00102459 Subject: H-COST: Boring clothes? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: InterChange (Hydra) SMTP v3.51 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: KATHARINE WHISLER Here's a question for you all: A few weeks back when my boyfriend accompanied me to my favorite clothing store, Brooks Brothers, he remarked that he found it strange that someone as interested in the history of fashion as I am would always wear rather boring clothes. Thinking about it, he's right, I do tend to choose very basic clothes that I can wear for years-- but this is because I'd rather buy something of better quality that will last a while than some cheap fashionable thing that is poorly made and will wear out in short order. I suppose the fashionable clothes that would interest me are just plain too expensive (in time or money). I did see a lovely Chanel jacket the other day and it wasn't boring at all. Of course, it was also nearly $2000. So, here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? --Katharine Whisler _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 23:24:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29142 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:24:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05434; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:40:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15819 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:38:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15809 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:38:14 -0600 (MDT) From: HighlndLss@aol.com Received: from HighlndLss@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6WSIa00254 (4233) for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:37:34 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/18C stays and shoulder straps To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: HighlndLss@aol.com I have used basket weaving reed, and I can only hope that you have better luck than I did with the stays. The 18th century stays I made were from small rounds, but after a while the reed got really dried out, and started cracking, especially around the waist line. I had the stays fully boned, they were quite stiff, and worked well for a while, then after a winter sitting in my camp chest, even though I wet them down to keep them pliant, they still began to crack. And with the amount of work that goes into making stays, you don't want to have to redo them every year. Just my experience, hope that yours work better. Susan K. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 23:28:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29159 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:28:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05915; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:44:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA16263 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:41:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16253 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:41:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA02912 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:41:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-68.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.68]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28661 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:41:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008201befc10$eee03560$6dabfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Confederate Uniform Braid Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:48:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Meribeth, If there is a specific arrangement for it to be sewed on, I wouldn't know. I remember a post about the office held and I am not sure if it being applied in a certain way is necessary...but, wouldn't work to hand tack it? Pin it where you want it and hand sew it. I have a friend that does Civil War events. Her husband has THE cannon, or so he thinks! If there is something more to the applying the braid, let me know and I will ask her. Michelle >-Poster: Meribeth McCombs > >Everyone...thanks to a wonderful list member I now know what kind of >braid..but I still have no idea what the best attachment method for it >is. Help! > >MeriBeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 23:29:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29166 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:29:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06059; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:45:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA16390 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:43:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16384 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:43:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03447 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:43:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-68.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.68]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29314 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008b01befc11$1d6d52a0$6dabfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/18C stays and shoulder straps Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:50:03 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >.. a whole >>reel of 1/2" reed costs about 7 bucks & makes dozens of corsets, with 30 to >>40 bones apiece. Just cut them to length, round off the ends, rub them with >>wax, and insert. > >Do you have a mail order source for reed? > >Margo > I am also, very, interested. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 23:31:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29179 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:31:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06265; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:47:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA16589 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:45:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16579 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:45:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (light54.lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.54]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA01743 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:34:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990910214711.007a3100@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:47:11 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Italian Ren Pattern In-Reply-To: <37D9D3FF.B9E9966E@worldnet.att.net> References: <19990910225205.66050.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris At 09:01 PM 10/09/99 -0700, you wrote: >-Poster: Carolyn Richardson >Better would be to make the sleeves or bodice out of a different color than >lengthening the hem. Sleeves were often contrasting fabrics - bodices also, but >seen less often than different colored sleeves. If you can squeeze a bodice AND >skirt out of the fabric you have, go for it. If there's only enough for the >skirt, I think I'd use Dress A or C's bodice which has an insert that can be a >different color. >bright. Colonial blue would work real well for Italian Ren with *red* sleeves >or *bright* yellow. I've seen several paintings of women wearing red dresses >with blue sleeves so no reason you couldn't do it in reverse (I'm sure I've seen >that too). oh! oh! I have LOTS of navy.. AND cranberry.. in the same fabric.. *plotting a new scheme* Maybe I'll do THAT for my It.Ren, and use the light one for.. something else down the road.. >Make a corset to go under it. That'll take care of those darts and gathers. I >wear Italian Ren all the time (usually the long waisted kind, not the high >waisted like in teh Simplicity pattern) - my pattern is 2 pieces, front and back >joined at the seams. And I'm a 38 DD. But I always wear a corset. So basically just make a boned, separate version of the bodice to wear underneath? But a little bit longer to avoid those unsightly bulges? >damn right. Cartridge pleating it would be even better. I know this would be best, but my fabric is kind of thin, and even if I interline it, I'm not sure if it would work. I'll just have to try it and see. oh.. and I would stitch the cartridge pleated skirt onto a separate waistband, right? Just to take pressure off the bodice? I could tie them together with little dangly bits.. Thanks so much! This has given me *fabullous* ideas :] Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 23:34:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29186 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:34:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06432; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:50:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA16956 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:48:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16949 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:48:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA05566 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:48:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-68.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.68]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA02161 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:48:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00a001befc11$de51d0e0$6dabfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Leather doublet questions Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:55:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Linda, I would test the leather first. The stitch length may be so close that it cuts your leather. When I sew leather, I always lengthen the stitch, especially if the leather is as supple as you say. Is your machine able to sew through it? Some can't handle it. Michelle >Linda Yordy wrote: >> Am looking for advice from those of you who know about sewing >> with leather. >> I've never sewn on real leather before. I've heard that I need a >> leather sewing machine needle (this is very supple leather and >> should go through the machine ok). I've also heard to use longer >> stitches than I would with woven fabric. > >I would *definately* get leather needles! But I use the same stitch >length I do on woven fabrics (2 on my machine). > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 23:52:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29195 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:52:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07403; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:02:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA18072 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:00:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18054 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:00:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990911045958.UCWJ16271.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:59:58 -0700 Message-ID: <37D9E1D2.A06A0F01@home.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:00:02 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Leather doublet questions References: <37D73BA0.6C6C6B53@bc.sympatico.ca> <199909101510.JAA13174@email.boisestate.edu> <37D940B1.781CC2B5@home.com> <37D9432F.20BFC6C3@serv.net> <37D949D0.E5F853C8@home.com> <37D9D506.79213505@worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Carolyn Richardson wrote: > > > Maybe it's just me but a *farthingale*under*a*cotehardie*?? Are you > mad, woman? I don't mean to sound rude but these 2 garments are at > least a hundred years apart. No flame intended but I think you really > should stick to wearing it at SF cons, because undoubtedly someone at > Ren Faire or SCA would make rude comments. Stick to lining it with > something comfortable and wear a chemise under it - or develop a very > thick skin (pun intended). Perhaps I was too sick when I wrote the post...I thought I had *already* stated that this garment was *intended* for SF cons and NOT for Faire or SCA. I also stated that I wear a chemise under all my cotehardies. At SCA (which I don't do anymore) I'd be more likely to be found in 12th C garb anyway and our Faire is set at Henry VIII's court so I'm unlikely to be wearing a cotehardie *there*. I'm making it because of the challange...well, and I wanted to see what it would look like and someone gave me the leather to try it and see how it would come out (for nefarious purposes...I think he wants to make ball gowns for women with far more money than I and given his talent with design and leather they should be stunning) and I go to Chattacon every January, which while it's not as bad as some (being in TN) isn't exactly *warm*. Kat hoping to have corrected any misconceptions about addressing a question put by another poster _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 23:55:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29199 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:55:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07843; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:11:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA19119 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:08:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19111 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:08:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA13097 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-68.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.68]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA12851 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:08:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <012401befc14$ae11cc20$6dabfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: re-pinking Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:15:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Tandy Leather. >-Poster: aleed > >Pinking Tools? > >Where? > >Thanks, > >Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 10 23:58:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29203 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:58:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08017; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:14:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA19454 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:11:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19442 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:11:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14193 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-68.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.68]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14454 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:11:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <012f01befc15$1fab8600$6dabfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Dress forms Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:18:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >-Poster: rima@anet.net >OK, so who knows of a terrific dress form that 's out there, that's easily >adjustable between two women's sizes - my friend and I wanna share, but >she's 4 inches taller and thinner! >Rima I think it really depends on how much of a size difference there is between you. I think most of them are made to cover a small range of sizes. Height doesn't matter so much. I was wondering thought, How are you go to do this without a fight? I don't think I could share. ;) I would want it ALL the time! Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 00:07:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29214 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:07:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08413; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:22:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20279 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:19:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20267 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:19:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990911051953.UGTT16271.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:19:53 -0700 Message-ID: <37D9E67C.1B74021@home.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:19:56 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Handsewing question References: <00f201befbf8$aabfa4a0$03000004@van1282> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent The Rogue wrote: > > I have an amazing way with sewing machines - have broken 4 in the last > year. > Even on of the indestructible black Singer straight sew models. Now I > handsew everything, and found that I really like handsewing much more > than working with a machine. This works well with the 20th century > Norse costuming I've been doing, but the thought of doing later period > clothing worries me. Has anyone handsewn a corset, dresses or > doublet? Any advice would be helpful. Especially about handsewing in > an authentic manner (if I'm stuck doing it, why not have a little fun > with it!!) or materials or methods to avoid. Well, since I didn't even *have* a sewing machine for the first 6 years I was sewing I think I can answer at least part of this! I've sewn everything from 70's peasant blouses to prairie bonnets to full length gowns by hand with no problems (except for thread knotting up on me!). I always use quilting or button thread for handsewing. I run out about a yard and a half, thread it through the needle, double it and knot it and if the thread gives me too much trouble I *wax* it (amazing what that can do!). I either fold my seam over and under (so the cut edge is covered and sew down the middle of that or I sew a shirt tail hem all the way around and then sew the appropriate seams together. I tend to take four - five stitches at a time and I use the thinnest needles I can find. I never, ever use a thimble (which shocked the heck out of my grandmothers) but that's because I've yet to find one that feels comfortable at *all* (conventional, ring, leather, quilters etc). I often do garments completely by hand if time allows (although for theatrical sewing I tend to go with the machine for times sake and if I'm pressed on my own garments will sew the interior seams by machine and just do the finishing by hand). If you are sewing through a number of thickness' of fabric (ex a corset) you may find it easier to use a good thimble and bring the needle through and then back one stitch at a time. Of course, the closer and more even the stitches the better. I have used a leather needle on a garment that had one layer of canvas and two of cloth because I got tired of bending needles. The biggest thing is to match your needle and thread to the garment material. If you haven't already, you might look into picking up a set of 'craft needles'. They generally contain two curved needles and a glovers needle, all of which I've found helpful while handsewing. My best advice is, if it doesn't work the first time...try switching needle or thread or both. Enjoy. BTW I'm curious...how exactly are you breaking the machines? Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 00:10:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29220 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:10:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08676; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:26:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20722 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:24:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20709 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:23:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA18599 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-68.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.68]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA20605 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:23:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <015d01befc16$d1c6cf60$6dabfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Handsewing question Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:30:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" ->I have an amazing way with sewing machines - have broken 4 in the last year. OH dear! How did that happen? Has anyone handsewn a corset, dresses or doublet? Any advice >would be helpful. Especially about handsewing in an authentic manner (if >I'm stuck doing it, why not have a little fun with it!!) or materials or >methods to avoid. > >Zelda Back stitching is a must for the corset. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 00:30:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29236 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:29:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09667; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:46:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA22659 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:43:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f85.hotmail.com [207.82.250.191]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA22653 for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:43:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 79479 invoked by uid 0); 11 Sep 1999 05:43:14 -0000 Message-ID: <19990911054314.79478.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.244.98.17 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:43:13 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.244.98.17] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: The iceman cometh? Re: H-COST: Canadian iceman redux Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 22:43:13 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Hullo Sheridan Re your "iceman." The San Francisco Chronicle has a article dated Aug 25. It's in their online archives. You need to access the site at www.sfgate.com and find their Aug 25 edition. Article is titled "Ancient Man Uncovered in Canadian Ice/Hunter preserved with clothing, tools" The author is James Brooke. Would dearly love to be involved in the clothing study/reconstruction research generated by this find. Working on this kind of stuff has been a dream of mine since I was a kid, way too long ago to remember. Wish I knew who to talk to about getting started in a career in this. Ah well. Anyway,enjoy the article. Lonna (Enyd) Oakland, CA >From: Sheridan Alder >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: Canadian iceman redux >Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:57:17 -0500 > >Greetings everyone: > >I'm kinda late for 09-09-99. An introvert, and damn proud of it, I only >post >when I feel I can make a contribution or pick people's brains. Besides, >it's hard enough to wrestle my husband off ebay, (wasting our hard-earned >sustenance - it would be cheaper if he drank and ran around with wild >women), long enough for me read the e-mail. Sigh! I wanted him to become >more computer literate, but I created a monster! As well, if I was a >regular >participant, members might ask me how the such n' such project was >going, and I would be forced to admit it has joined the ranks of my other >1/4, >1/2, 3/4, and 99.9% finished projects! Although it appears as if I'm not >the >only >one who doesn't finish a costume until the morning of an event. > >Not long ago someone posted a message regarding news of another >"iceman" discovered in British Columbia. I'm ashamed to admit that >I shrugged it off as another internet rumour - after all I'm Canadian, >and I haven't heard anything about it! Time went by, and no one on >the list responded, and there was nothing in the news about it. My >opinion was confirmed. > >Much to my surprise, a recent issue of the American journal "Science" >had a brief article on the discovery. Unfortunately, idiot girl galloped >out the > >door ("It's Friday, blessed Friday, yippee!) without her backpack >containing >the article. > >From memory - the body was discovered August 14th in a glacier in >northern BC by hikers, and is now in storage in the Yukon until native >groups and researchers reach an agreement on how to research it. The >article suggested it was expected that an amicable agreement could be >reached, unlike the case of Kennewick (Kessewick?) man, a controversial >U.S.find. > >The body was reported as wearing a finely woven hat and a cloak of small >pelts similar to squirrel or groundhog. A spear thrower was also found. >The body could be as old as 10,000 years old or as recent as the early >European occupation. > >"Science" is published by the American Association for the Advancement of >Science, relying on my unreliable memory, and they have a web page with >access to a few, but not all, of their articles. > >Off-topic - I'm rather annoyed that this has received so little coverage in >the >Canadian media. Sometimes this self-effacing Canadian attitude goes a >little >too far, (speaking as an ardent Canadian nationalist) especially when it >involves >such an interesting find. > >Recently there was a book published on Canadian social attitudes called >"Sex in the Snow". A catchy title, and I can't help but wonder if this >iceman >didn't meet his end.... > >And my apologies to the original poster, who ever you are! I will never >doubt >you >again. > >Sheridan Alder ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 00:54:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29247 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:54:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10813; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:10:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA24995 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:08:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA24989 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:07:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-123.radiks.net [206.29.243.125]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA15442 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:06:36 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990911010516.03c28a08@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:05:16 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: Medieval Misc. In-Reply-To: <199909110445.WAA16605@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger I've used the MM houppelande pattern. Can't speak to its authenticity, I was using it for a fantasy costume. However, it seemed to go together easily - everything fit, etc. I don't remember having to alter extensively (size 18-20) for width, and I'm 5'11" so I didn't have to shorten anything (the most common complaint I've heard locally is that they are too long). I also remember not using the directions, just assembling it the way that seemed logical. The biggest problem was that I was using the floor-length sleeves, and they were lined, and the sheer quantity of fabric became rather daunting by the time it was all together! Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 00:57:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29251 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:57:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA11056; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:13:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA25294 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:10:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f248.hotmail.com [207.82.251.139]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA25289 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:10:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 77293 invoked by uid 0); 11 Sep 1999 06:10:20 -0000 Message-ID: <19990911061020.77291.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.244.98.17 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:10:19 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.244.98.17] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Soft lining for leather "cote"Re: H-COST: Leather doublet questions Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:10:19 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Or you can try lining the "cote" itself in a soft cotton that breathes (preferably natural with no sizing or dye added). Then you can add a cotton chemise under it. Don't know how period that would be, but I think it would take care of some of the sweating/sticking to skin problems. Instead of a farthingale to hold it away from your body, how about a soft petticoat? (Carolyn, my memory fails me here, were petticoat-like underpinnings worn in the 14th century? That's the one thing I've been unable to figure out which is rather frustrating since my persona is from the early/mid 14th century.) Whatever you come up with, Kat, please scan some pictures to the list. I'm quivering with anticipation at just how this is going to look. BTW, what kind of buttons are you using? Lapis beads/buttons would be a lovely accent. Lonna (Enyd) >From: Carolyn Richardson >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Leather doublet questions >Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 21:05:26 -0700 > > >-Poster: Carolyn Richardson > > > >Kat & Kent wrote: > > > -Poster: Kat & Kent > > > > I've got the main body almost done (center front is open still). I need > > to put in the lining and put on the sleeves although at this point I'm > > probably going to make them tie-ons. It's out of a midnight to navy > > blue light to medium weight leather with the suede side out. Because > > it's a floor length I had to use three different sides to cut it out. > > It's seven panels (the back was cut on the fold) and will lace up the > > front to a square neckline. If I'm wearing it anywhere that isn't air > > conditioned or cold I plan on wearing a farthingale under it to hold the > > skirt away from my body. > >Maybe it's just me but a *farthingale*under*a*cotehardie*?? Are you mad, >woman? I don't mean to sound rude but these 2 garments are at least a >hundred years apart. No flame intended but I think you really should stick >to wearing it at SF cons, because undoubtedly someone at Ren Faire or SCA >would make rude comments. Stick to lining it with something comfortable >and >wear a chemise under it - or develop a very thick skin (pun intended). > >Carolyn/Tetchubah > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 01:27:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29696 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:27:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12708; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:43:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA27951 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:40:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alchemyweb.greateralchemy.net ([209.186.228.137]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA27939 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:40:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ELEMENTAL (unverified [209.30.233.39]) by alchemyweb.greateralchemy.net (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:50:03 -0500 Received: by ELEMENTAL with Microsoft Mail id <01BEFBF6.65CCCDC0@ELEMENTAL>; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:38:50 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEFBF6.65CCCDC0@ELEMENTAL> From: Carrie Veenstra To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Boring clothes? Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:54:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BEFBF6.65CCCDC0" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carrie Veenstra ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEFBF6.65CCCDC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable -----Original Message----- From: KATHARINE WHISLER [SMTP:KWHISLER@kentlaw.edu] Sent: Friday, September 10, 1999 11:26 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Boring clothes? So, here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? --Katharine Whisler [Carrie Veenstra]=20 I wear t-shirts and shorts/sweats/jeans (%100 cotton EVERYTHING) until = they are plain worn out, I think because I'm always working on something = and this is the most comfortable/washable option. I don't dress up very = often anyhow, and even in the realm of historical I like making = costumes/clothes for others much more than for myself.=20 For Ren, my clothing style really mirrors everyday -- mix-n-match = peasant wear -- for much the same reasons. For 'Dress Up' < for what most people would consider casual or = business dress up to formal> I grab either hand-me-downs from my mom's = closet, or whatever doesn't hurt the pocketbook too much at Lane = Bryant's . If I had a bit of a smaller dress size I might = get into shopping more, but large-sized fashion at almost every level is = still very cost prohibitive. No, I don't own a neon pink spandex crushed velvet minidress... 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Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:27:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12709; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:43:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA27976 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:40:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alchemyweb.greateralchemy.net ([209.186.228.137]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA27961 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:40:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ELEMENTAL (unverified [209.30.233.39]) by alchemyweb.greateralchemy.net (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:50:09 -0500 Received: by ELEMENTAL with Microsoft Mail id <01BEFBF6.69ECB640@ELEMENTAL>; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:38:57 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEFBF6.69ECB640@ELEMENTAL> From: Carrie Veenstra To: "h-costume-digest@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Dress Forms Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:52:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id AAA27969 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carrie Veenstra I lost track of the original poster, but that dress form on the farthingale's site looked very neat to me. I've been beating on the mental puzzle of trying to dresses to-be-worn-with-a-corset on a standard type dress form and kept coming up puzzled... looks like with that form, I could fit the corset to the person, lace the corset to the form, and bingo-bango: Friend-who-agreed to be costumed doesn't have to stick around for most of the gory details (or watching over my shoulder, as the case may be). Being as that I am a Midnight to 4 am kind of worker, this would be VERY desirable. The price didn't look *too* outrageous for the product, tho I did just buy myself an adjustable dress form (cheapy cheapy) off of ebay to play with ($30 including shipping!!!) I, too, would be interested in general opinion of the "skwishy" form you linked to! to the rest of the list: is there another more obvious way to do this without the costume-ee present? I've considered the 'wrapped-in-plaster-build-your-own' form making process, too, but then I'm stuck storing multiple bulky forms, and that method doesn't solve the problem of a stable base on the unit. (Also, it's even harder to convince people to wrap themselves in plaster cloths & laytex than it is to convince them to wear a corset in the first place...) Carrie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 01:44:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29712 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:44:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13611; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:00:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA29487 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:58:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29482 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990911065801.UZBF16271.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:58:01 -0700 Message-ID: <37D9FD79.E9A4DF99@home.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:58:01 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Soft lining for leather "cote"Re: H-COST: Leather doublet questions References: <19990911061020.77291.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent I've already stated that I wear a chemise with cotehardies (heck, I wear a chemise with many, many things) but they won't keep the leather *off* my skin as far as I want if it's *hot* out...not that this is likely to be an issue...I'm not going to be tromping through any woods in this one! I wish I could afford lapis buttons but I'm more likely to grommet this so that it has more 'ease' or use 'buttonholes'. IOW it will lace not button. If I manage to get a pic of it once it's done and actually get it developed, I'll scan it and put it up somewhere. As for underpinnings...a chemise or underdress as I recall, don't remember coming across anything else but it's not my primary period. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 02:47:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA26145 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:47:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA16564; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:02:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA04766 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:00:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1-1.bctel.ca (mail1-1.bctel.ca [207.194.28.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04760 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:00:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bc.sympatico.ca (clwk01m01-5.bctel.ca [209.52.192.5]) by mail1-1.bctel.ca (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA14430 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:00:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DA0C13.93437093@bc.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:00:19 -0700 From: Marilyn Warren Organization: Crone's Sewing Circle and Terrorist Society X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-SYMPA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Canadian iceman redux References: <009401befbed$5670b340$3daba0d1@j9g8x8> <37C85B3D.E95ED03@vaxxine.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marilyn Warren I heard about this on KTLA (a Los Angeles TV Station). I heard it mentioned on a CBC radio broadcast once in the early morning. There was also a small snippet in the National Post. This all happened on one day, then nothing. Seems wars, slaughter, political machinations and such sell more ads and papers than something of historical importance. Such are our days. Morgan Crawford of Shrewsbury _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 03:23:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26162 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:23:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA18773; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:39:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA07619 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:37:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA07611 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:37:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([208.255.165.251]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990911083706.ZWRU24367@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:37:06 +0000 Message-ID: <37DA1246.E54DEB2D@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 01:26:46 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Italian Ren Pattern References: <19990910225205.66050.qmail@hotmail.com> <3.0.5.32.19990910214711.007a3100@antir.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Kris wrote: > oh! oh! I have LOTS of navy.. AND cranberry.. in the same fabric.. > *plotting a new scheme* Maybe I'll do THAT for my It.Ren, and use the light > one for.. something else down the road.. Either would be good. Green too (everyone break into a round of "Greensleeves" ;-) ) > So basically just make a boned, separate version of the bodice to wear > underneath? > But a little bit longer to avoid those unsightly bulges? Yep. My corset's a slightly different shape than the bodice and it laces in back (I usually use side openings on my Italians - easier to get into). > I know this would be best, but my fabric is kind of thin, and even if I > interline it, I'm not sure if it would work. I'll just have to try it and > see. oh.. and I would stitch the cartridge pleated skirt onto a separate > waistband, right? Just to take pressure off the bodice? I could tie them > together with little dangly bits.. I've cartridge pleated just about every weight of fabric except *really* lightweight stuff. I sewed some twill tape to the top of it to give it more body for cartridge pleating. And I frequently will pleat straight to the bodice rather than a separate waist band. Depends on the weight. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 03:49:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26698 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:49:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20190; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:05:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA09657 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:02:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA09651 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:02:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.138] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Pj3S-0001Wf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:02:43 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:00:52 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Canadian iceman redux In-Reply-To: <37DA0C13.93437093@bc.sympatico.ca> References: <009401befbed$5670b340$3daba0d1@j9g8x8> <37C85B3D.E95ED03@vaxxine.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" There may eventually be more. Remember archaologists pour over each silly millimeter in excruciating detail, and then do it again another several times just to be certain they have not missed, nor misinterpreted anything--and in this case, they also mustneeds consult the tribe whose elder they have deemed this 'iceman' to be in every detail and obtain permissions from the tribe for doing it all. It takes time. I was amazed to note that people are still wearing hats very similar to his now--or at least I know someone who does. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 03:54:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26704 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:54:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20328; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:10:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA10121 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:08:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA10113 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:08:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.138] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Pj8m-0001l2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:08:13 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:06:22 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Italian Ren Pattern In-Reply-To: <37DA1246.E54DEB2D@worldnet.att.net> References: <19990910225205.66050.qmail@hotmail.com> <3.0.5.32.19990910214711.007a3100@antir.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 01:26 AM 09/11/1999, Carolyn Richardson wrote: >Kris wrote: oh! oh! I have LOTS of navy.. AND cranberry.. in the same fabric.. >> *plotting a new scheme* Maybe I'll do THAT for my It.Ren, and use the light >> one for.. something else down the road.. > Either would be good. Green too (everyone break into a round of "Greensleeves" ;-) But--each one takes a different verse, please, there are so many from which to choose. I'm getting excited about doing my first Italian Ren outfit, too, and will attempt more authenticity than I ever have before. I decided on side lacings, too, since, alas, I have no 'tiring maid, nor beloved who might aid me to lace otherwise. -- Gra/inne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 04:03:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26804 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:03:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20561; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:20:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA29816 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:17:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA29731 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:17:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Sat Sep 11 02:17:15 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:17:15 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: Boring clothes? X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.36.157 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" I go as unique as I can get. Now that's not to say wild or crazy. I go for items that you won't see on anyone else...probably ever. I watch alot of style TV so I pick up on new looks and go for those, only problem is I' live in backwards-ass tallahassee FL (more like south georgia I think) they don't get things around here until about a year and 1/2 after it's gone back out of style. I remember about 4 or 5 years ago I went to every store in both malls and several independant stores loking for a plain black jacket with a leopard print collar COULD not find one. Finally I ordered one from a catalog, needless to say I got alot of weird looks at first from the classmates. About a year and 1/2 later everyone had one, they were all the rage by the time I'd tired of mine. It's not that I fancy myself a trend setter, lol it's just they are REALLY slow to catch on to EVERYTHING down here. Anyway back to the answer to your question. I don't dress plain. I find that noone dresses up for anything anymore (my fiance and I went to a show at the FSU opera last christmas and several of the "ladies" were wearing sneakers and jogging pants...can you imagine?) I try to put a little bit of the excitement back into dressing that everyone seems to have lost. When I shop for a suit coat I don't go for the plain and dull, I"ll opt for heavy embroidery. I love heels with lots of fine detail work etc. Alot of times I can't find what I want so I have to buythe basic and take it home and "doll it up" myself. Too much of life has been stripped to the basic, bare necessities I think. Ladies no longer lunch, dinner parties are no longer and EVENT and people stick to that, buy 12 wardrobe pieces that all match each other and that's it. well maybe it's just me, lol. I've always been discribed as "unique" so if my opinion offends anyone I'm sorry. --- Ginnaphure ICQ# 41340093 "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." >So, here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday >life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a >fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? > >--Katharine Whisler > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 04:17:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26825 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:17:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA21148; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:33:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA19885 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:31:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA19699 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:31:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Sat Sep 11 02:30:30 1999 To: "Historic Costume" Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 02:30:30 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: H-COST: Red shoes? (forgot orig. poster) X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.36.157 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" I found the exact address for the shoes I spoke of in my earlier post. They appeared in the picture to be pinkish red... I appologize because the picture's captions says red; so I suppose they are just red. They are how ever made by Peter Fox like I thought and lo and behold they are on sale as well. The exact address is http://www.peterfox.com/796901R.html . Hope this helps a little. Also they don't come in white they come in Ivory...I was all off on the color, but you must forgive me it had been a month or two in actuality since I've been there. Time flys when you're on the net. lol --- Ginnaphure ICQ# 41340093 "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 04:55:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26842 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:55:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA22402; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:11:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA06694 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:09:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from cdale3.midwest.net (cdale3.midwest.net [208.235.1.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06687 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 04:09:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from talk2meg.midwest.net (johnstoncity34.midwest.net [208.235.11.172]) by cdale3.midwest.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id FAA19363 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 05:12:13 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199909111012.FAA19363@cdale3.midwest.net> From: "Mary-Gayle Jany" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: boring clothes Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 05:02:04 -0500 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Mary-Gayle Jany" Katherine: Since I missed de-lurking day all together (long work hours) and since your question IS one I can answer, here I am. One of several non-traditional classes that I teach is English As A Second Language, which means that I teach foreign-born students reading, writing, and speaking of English. One of the advantages of the class is that the students come from nine countries. An international splash of fashion styles, colors, and fabrics show up daily in class. Over the past couple of years, I've found myself adapting to (or adopting) various garments from each of my students' cultural settings, most of which have remained fairly steady over long periods of time. My absolute favorite this year is Mandarian sheaths. (I'm medium tall, thin, and proportionally top heavy, so the style looks good. Unfortunately, I'm not perpetually young.) A side advantage is that my students have taken to the game of "dressing Meg properly" in their native styles. They are more comfortable talking about a subject they're familiar with, even though they struggle to find comparable English words. I'm learning a goodly amount about fabrics and construction (modern) techniques along the way and we sometimes nearly burst laughing at their attempts to "reform" me. (Their attempts to explain politely in English that my clumsiness in trying to sink down gracefully in an obi makes for many cluckings of tongues.) I enjoy the game too and try to play by their rules whenever possible, although so far I've refused to change my reddish-blonde hair to black. My biggest pet peeve is unmatched plaids! Current manufacturers seem to be visually impaired concerning plaids. If the plaid in a garment is unmatched, it's cheap, IMHO, regardless of what the price tag reads! Meg _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 07:23:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27350 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:23:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA27504; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:39:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA22908 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:35:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.his.com (root@mail.his.com [205.177.25.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22900 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 06:35:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.252.121.168] (pm9-168.his.com [205.252.121.168]) by mail.his.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA20172 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: lola@mail.his.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909110445.WAA16605@net.indra.com> References: <199909110445.WAA16605@net.indra.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:29:42 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Lola Lee Subject: H-COST: Re: Boring clothes? Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lola Lee At 10:45 PM -0600 9/10/99, owner-h-costume-digest@indra.com wrote: >So, here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday >life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a >fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? I tend to wear "boring", conservative clothes. Why? Because I can't stand the fashion that is forced on us year after year, such as retro 60s or whatever. I want to have good quality clothes that will last for years, especially as I'm petite and have a hard time finding clothes that fit me (why do they never keep size Small in stock???). If I had my way, there would be plenty of 1900s-1920s style and not the 90's version of these style in stock. Shoes, as well. I'm sorry, but those squarish shoes with huge, boxy heels just don't appeal to me - I have small, high-arched feet and these would just look ridiculous on me. I find the shoes from the 1900s-1920s very stylish. As it is, I go for clothes that you'd find in LL Beans, and maybe a little Laura Ashley. Also, natural fiber as much as possible. Meaning, no pantyhose for me (I have dry skin, and in winter I have to slap on lotion on my legs every other hour or so). Lola - mailto:lola@his.com Gospodi Pomilui | Lord Have Mercy | Get a Mac and a Palm! http://www.his.com/~lola/ljl.html | ICQ: 14914550 I'm in Bowie, MD, USA, halfway between DC and Annapolis. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 08:03:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27774 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:03:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01164; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:20:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA26433 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:16:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26428; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 07:16:07 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EK843E2Z; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:15:49 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:09:14 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Dress Forms Message-ID: <19990911.081040.-435891.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-7 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com For those of you who are doing the 'Duct-tape Double' type of form, when you fill it with foam (the spray in, expandable type) just stick a decent sized dowel/closet pole in the center and then use a Christmas tree stand to hold it when you need to use it. My friend Brenda and I made her a 'Double' which we did this with and it works well. The good thing about the foam filled form is that it's pretty light weight and doesn't pull itself over. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 09:13:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27801 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:13:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07312; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:28:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03416 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:24:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03403 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:24:47 -0600 (MDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6GNMa01987 (4417) for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:24:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8c476962.250bc00b@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:24:11 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Handsewing question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 9/10/99 11:24:44 PM Mountain Daylight Time, mandrake@mypad.com writes: << Back stitching is a must for the corset. >> If you look inside most hand sewn period clothing, you will find either that the entire garment has been made with a small, regular backstitch, or with a running backstitch. (3 or 4 running stitches followed by a backstitch). The seam allowances are also most often overcast to prevent fraying. Hope this helps. Cheryl Odom _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 09:18:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28285 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:18:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07888; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:34:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03954 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:30:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03947 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 08:30:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Andrea (port109.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.109]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id QAA25297 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:30:16 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <37D84C7A.67913CFF@ndh.net> Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 02:10:35 +0200 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Re: 17th century X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------91497BAE78F37E54487CFB70" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------91497BAE78F37E54487CFB70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >To Jill of ECWS: I'm thrilled to hear that there *is* another 17th century > >enthusiast on the list. It's always seemed as though I was the only one! > >Kate Bunting > >King's Lifeguard of Foote/ Captaine Generalls Musick, Sealed Knot > -------- > Jill and Kate, > I do 17th c. (Cavalier Association, Columbus Ohio, US). We do ECW in the US > and American colonial 17th century. This summer, went to the muster at > Salem Village 1630. If I ever get to the UK again (last trip was 1984), > I'd love to attend some ECW and other events! > > Marsha Hamilton > And here are even more ;-) !I belong to an English-/German cooperative group that does French and English baroque in the 17th century. We want to focus on civilian events but there is also a regiment being built up, the "Kirke`s Lambs". We`re just starting out, if you`d like to know more about the group, visit http://www.kipar.org, there are some pics and information about 17th century dress up as well. Many greetings, Diana --------------91497BAE78F37E54487CFB70 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 

>To Jill of ECWS: I'm thrilled to hear that there *is* another 17th century
>enthusiast on the list. It's always seemed as though I was the only one!
>Kate Bunting
>King's Lifeguard of Foote/ Captaine Generalls Musick, Sealed Knot
--------
Jill and Kate,  
I do 17th c. (Cavalier Association, Columbus Ohio, US). We do ECW in the US
and American colonial 17th century.  This summer, went to the muster at
Salem Village 1630. If I ever get to the UK again (last trip was 1984),
I'd love to attend some ECW and other events!

Marsha Hamilton
And here are even more ;-) !I belong to an English-/German cooperative group that does French and English baroque in the 17th century.
We want to focus on civilian events but there is also a regiment being built up, the
"Kirke`s Lambs".
We`re just starting out, if you`d like to know more about the group, visit
http://www.kipar.org, there are some pics and information about 17th century dress up as well.

Many greetings,
Diana
  --------------91497BAE78F37E54487CFB70-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 10:38:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28319 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:38:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13332; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:54:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA12180 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:50:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12172 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:50:31 -0600 (MDT) From: dawn.wood1@virgin.net Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.58.180]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990911154601.TLQA2782.mta3-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:46:01 +0100 Message-ID: <37DA807A.1E7F@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:16:58 -0700 Organization: ages of elegance X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re-pinking References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: dawn.wood1@virgin.net aleed wrote: > > -Poster: aleed > > Pinking Tools? > > Where? I got my otherhalf who's a metal worker to make me one as an experiment as I had never been able to find them. We also tried to silk stamp with a similar tool without the cutting edge which worked perfectly but the tool has to be heated > > I'd love to find some of these. So would I anyone any clues? > > Thanks, > > Drea > > On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 dawn.wood1@virgin.net wrote: > > > > > -Poster: dawn.wood1@virgin.net > > > > The slashes were often 'glued' along the edges by using gum arabic or > > gum tragacanth. Also as the pinking tools(they weren't scissors but a > > die you hit with a hammer) could be used hot this often sealed the edge > > of the fabric. I've experimented with both of these and they work > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 10:38:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28323 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:38:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13333; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:54:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA12192 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:50:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12186 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:50:35 -0600 (MDT) From: dawn.wood1@virgin.net Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.58.180]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990911154605.TLQK2782.mta3-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:46:05 +0100 Message-ID: <37DA81AA.6A2F@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:22:02 -0700 Organization: ages of elegance X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re-pinking References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: dawn.wood1@virgin.net Carol J. Bell Cannon wrote: > > -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > At 10:12 PM 09/10/1999, dawn.wood1@virgin.net wrote: The slashes were > often 'glued' along the edges by using gum arabic or gum tragacanth. Also > as the pinking tools(they weren't scissors but a die you hit with a hammer) > could be used hot this often sealed the edge of the fabric. I've > experimented with both of these and they work > Wow--a die...anyone know of any craftsmen who might be making See earlier reply sent > these? Or, alternately, happen to have handy the recipes for gum > arabic/gum tragacanth? you can buy it at art shops/ herbalists etc they are both resins which you heat to break down. Carol > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 10:53:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28334 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:53:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14421; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:09:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13889 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:05:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13882 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:05:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.192 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:04:38 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: The iceman cometh? Re: H-COST: Canadian iceman redux Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:37:26 -0400 Message-ID: <000501befc70$b7ada5e0$c00bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <19990911054314.79478.qmail@hotmail.com> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Here's the link for the BC ice man article http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/ar chive/1999/08/25/MN77274.DTL. The comparable find the article discusses is the ice man now in the museum at Balzo, Italy, just north of Venice and just south of the Italian Alps. There was a great Public Broadcasting Station documentary on the Balzo ice man. What hit me about it was how many different people in different disciplines worked on the guy. There were your classic archeologists, of course, but now forensic pathologists, which would be an MD degree, a huge array of biolologists--both botony and wildlife types, textiles experts, metallurgists (he was carrying a soft copper knife), insect-ologists (sorry, can't remember the exact word), refrigeration experts, chemists, carbon-dating types and many more. Except for the forensic pathologist, they were all Masters and PhD types in their fields. The experts were able to determine the time of year he died to a single week or two by identifying the life cycle of insects and seeds caught in his clothing, as well as the seasonal availability of his stomach contents. He was perhaps late 40's in age, old for the time, and his state of health was precarious in several ways, including deformed bones. He carried his own medicines in a pouch at his belt for the ailments which troubled him. His area of origin was traced to Balzo by several means, including the presence of a toxic gaseaous byproduct of copper smelting on his clothes or in his body. It was a huge international team which worked on him, not a single individual. Except for the MD, almost all large universities offer degrees in the other fields. If in total doubt, look for a degree program in your nearest city which offers a full archeology program, preferably extending to the Masters and PhD level, which will mean they are active researchers with international contacts. Opportunities for research like this are made through academic community contacts. The work on the BC iceman will take a number of years if it isn't early disproven that the find is very old. While the find is extraordinary, comparable extraordinary finds are being unearthed around the world, given those in the field plenty to do. Without the degree, you can still research and write and explore your interest as an avocation. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of L.L. Johnson > Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 1:43 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: The iceman cometh? Re: H-COST: Canadian iceman redux > > > > -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" > > Hullo Sheridan > > Re your "iceman." > > The San Francisco Chronicle has a article dated Aug 25. It's > in their online > archives. You need to access the site at > > www.sfgate.com > > and find their Aug 25 edition. Article is titled "Ancient Man > Uncovered in > Canadian Ice/Hunter preserved with clothing, tools" The > author is James > Brooke. > > Would dearly love to be involved in the clothing study/reconstruction > research generated by this find. Working on this kind of > stuff has been a > dream of mine since I was a kid, way too long ago to > remember. Wish I knew > who to talk to about getting started in a career in this. Ah well. > Anyway,enjoy the article. > > Lonna (Enyd) > Oakland, CA > > > >From: Sheridan Alder > >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > >To: h-costume@indra.com > >Subject: H-COST: Canadian iceman redux > >Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:57:17 -0500 > > > >Greetings everyone: > > > >I'm kinda late for 09-09-99. An introvert, and damn proud of > it, I only > >post > >when I feel I can make a contribution or pick people's > brains. Besides, > >it's hard enough to wrestle my husband off ebay, (wasting > our hard-earned > >sustenance - it would be cheaper if he drank and ran around with wild > >women), long enough for me read the e-mail. Sigh! I wanted > him to become > >more computer literate, but I created a monster! As well, if I was a > >regular > >participant, members might ask me how the such n' such project was > >going, and I would be forced to admit it has joined the > ranks of my other > >1/4, > >1/2, 3/4, and 99.9% finished projects! Although it appears > as if I'm not > >the > >only > >one who doesn't finish a costume until the morning of an event. > > > >Not long ago someone posted a message regarding news of another > >"iceman" discovered in British Columbia. I'm ashamed to admit that > >I shrugged it off as another internet rumour - after all I'm > Canadian, > >and I haven't heard anything about it! Time went by, and no one on > >the list responded, and there was nothing in the news about it. My > >opinion was confirmed. > > > >Much to my surprise, a recent issue of the American journal "Science" > >had a brief article on the discovery. Unfortunately, idiot > girl galloped > >out the > > > >door ("It's Friday, blessed Friday, yippee!) without her backpack > >containing > >the article. > > > >From memory - the body was discovered August 14th in a glacier in > >northern BC by hikers, and is now in storage in the Yukon > until native > >groups and researchers reach an agreement on how to research it. The > >article suggested it was expected that an amicable agreement could be > >reached, unlike the case of Kennewick (Kessewick?) man, a > controversial > >U.S.find. > > > >The body was reported as wearing a finely woven hat and a > cloak of small > >pelts similar to squirrel or groundhog. A spear thrower was > also found. > >The body could be as old as 10,000 years old or as recent as > the early > >European occupation. > > > >"Science" is published by the American Association for the > Advancement of > >Science, relying on my unreliable memory, and they have a > web page with > >access to a few, but not all, of their articles. > > > >Off-topic - I'm rather annoyed that this has received so > little coverage in > >the > >Canadian media. Sometimes this self-effacing Canadian > attitude goes a > >little > >too far, (speaking as an ardent Canadian nationalist) > especially when it > >involves > >such an interesting find. > > > >Recently there was a book published on Canadian social > attitudes called > >"Sex in the Snow". A catchy title, and I can't help but > wonder if this > >iceman > >didn't meet his end.... > > > >And my apologies to the original poster, who ever you are! I > will never > >doubt > >you > >again. > > > >Sheridan Alder > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 10:53:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28338 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:53:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14461; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:10:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13931 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:06:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13921 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:06:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-87.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.87]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA02918 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:06:05 -0700 Message-ID: <001501befc6f$dfa42ac0$57aba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:08:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" Ginnaphure, THANK YOU!! I can't believe it, I was looking on the net last night at every bridal shoe shop I could find and I saw the Peter Fox one, but for some reason I didn't click on it! (am I stupid or what?) It is EXACTLY what I want AND it's on sale!! Now I just have to justify $195 for a pair of shoes to my husband, who will probably never let me buy them anyway! Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 11:21:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28866 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:21:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17176; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:37:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16947 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:33:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from boomer.brightok.net (boomer.brightok.net [206.30.97.13]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16941 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:33:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.brightok.net (springer1p44.cld.brightok.net [206.30.113.44]) by boomer.brightok.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28189 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:33:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37DA86CC.F3989D72@mail.brightok.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:43:57 -0500 From: The Mulders X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:Boring clothes References: <001501befc6f$dfa42ac0$57aba0d1@j9g8x8> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Mulders Talk about boring .... I have to wear an uniform with badge and smoky bear hat! When I'm on the ranch it is cotton and comfort. Personal business wear is bright and flowing, always dresses, with lots of jewelry. I have very long and curly hair. I've followed all threads on long heavy hair. I do turn of the century programs so the hair is braided and up. Has anyone heard the old "proper" way to wear hair when coming of age? Is it the age of 16 when a girl can wear her hair up or age 14? Ninya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 11:29:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28885 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:29:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17967; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:45:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17753 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:41:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17746 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 10:41:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p14.directcon.net [206.170.184.63]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA21346 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 09:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909111639.JAA21346@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Boring clothes? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I confess! In my everyday life, I wear shorts and T-shirts , denim dresses, sweats, and jeans, depending on the season. I figure I'm doing well if I manage to come up with clothes that aren't bleach spotted or torn. This is largely due to poverty, living in the middle of nowhere and having young, clothing destructive children, but I'm trying to get over it. Now that I'm teaching costume and trying to drum up business, it's embarrassing to be standing at the fabric store representing myself as an authority when I'm dressed in rags. When I actually make an effort to get dressed up a bit, I tend to comfortable pants or skirts and loose tops, often in black or neutral colors, and accesorized with interesting bead jewelry and jewel toned accesories. I call this my "arsty look". My favorite piece of clothing is a vest I made of black cotton, with a patchwork collage on the front made from sample swatches of bright prints from Thai Silks. Having been a teenager in the 70's, I feel that I've already done my time, and I don't wear high heels except for very formal occasions. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 13:08:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29428 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:08:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24929; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:24:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29593 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:21:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f263.hotmail.com [207.82.251.154]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA29587 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:21:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 6224 invoked by uid 0); 11 Sep 1999 18:21:23 -0000 Message-ID: <19990911182123.6223.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.37.215 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:21:23 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.37.215] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Source for gemstone bead buttons/Soft lining for leather "cote" Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:21:23 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Hi Kat -Poster: Kat & Kent I wish I could afford lapis buttons but I'm more likely to >grommet this so that it has more 'ease' or use 'buttonholes'. IOW it >will lace not button. Now that I think a bit more about it, in this case, lacing would work better and it would save wear and tear on the fingertips from sewing on the buttons. But, if you do decide that you'd like to use gem bead buttons on another project, FireMountain Gems is a very good source. These folks used to have a store in LA back in the 70's but now they're up in Cave Junction, OR. You can find them on the Web under FireMountain Gems. This site is mostly a place to order one of their catalogs. Their phone number is (800)292-9304. They are an excellent company and have decent prices. They have a lot of other neat stuff for beadworkers, jewelers, and costumers. I found a 16" strand of Howlite (dyed Lapis) 10mm beads (about 41 beads) for $6.83 per strand (If you buy more than 3, there is a proportional discount). They also have a 12mm (34 beads) for $9.82. Their regular lapis runs from $14.95 (for 4mm) to $29.95 (for 8mm). I got some good deals on peridot, garnet, and amber bits for my 20's silk and velvet dress and coccoon coat (almost have everything I need to start building it). If I manage to get a pic of it once it's done and actually get it developed, I'll scan it and put it up somewhere. Great. Am looking forward to seeing it. Lonna (Enyd) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 13:40:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29483 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:40:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29049; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:56:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03337 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:54:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03327 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.78] (sdts11-123.znet.net [207.167.66.123]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id LAA25699 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:53:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19990910172058.006c3710@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 11:50:39 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Finishing on Slashed Edges Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >> My heart sunk with dread when I realized the long "ribbon" type slashes, >> seen in German, Swiss, landsknecht, and women's mid-17th c. sleeves >> do appear to be lined and finished on the edges. (Too much work!) There are woodcuts of some soldiers with ribbon type slashes that are unlined, but it only works for a decently heavy leather or heavy felted wool. Most of the other fancy or thinner fabrics are lined. If the ribbon slashes done't have enough body they just look wrong, they will twist and crinkle individually. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 13:49:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29514 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:49:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29674; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:05:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA04398 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:02:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04380 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:02:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06474 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:02:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-190.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.190]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00613 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:02:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004001befc89$36e74d80$8bd5fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Boring clothes? Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:09:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday >life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a >fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? > >--Katharine Whisler I wear natural fibers, cottons and some rayons. I wont wear polyester or other synthetics. I only wear leather shoes, usually hicking boots. I can count every pair of shoes I own on one hand. I have 3 children and go to college full time. There is no going out to a nice place...it just doesn't happen. So...I wear jeans, sweats, t-shirts in the winter and long A-line dresses in the summer. The most work I do on laundry day, is hanging something to dry. I wont buy something that is dry clean only. Sometimes I drool at what others are wearing, the latest thing, and then I realize that by the time I would have a chance to wear it, it would be out of style. Classic styles are better. I guess, I would have to be classified under the boring clothes side. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 13:51:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29520 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:51:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29863; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:07:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA04625 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:04:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA04619 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:04:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990911190745.20500.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.250.3.244] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:07:45 PDT Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:07:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: H-COST: Lacing w/o a maid: was:Simplicity Italian Ren Pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney This brings up a good question... I have a great corset that I would *love* to wear more often, but the only one around to help me lace it is my boyfriend who won't do it... any suggestions on how to lace it by yourself? Sarah > I ever have before. I > decided on side lacings, too, since, alas, I have no > 'tiring maid, nor > beloved who might aid me to lace otherwise. -- > Gra/inne > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 13:58:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29532 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:58:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00808; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05681 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:12:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.wireweb.net (mail.wireweb.net [216.3.229.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05662 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:12:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail.wireweb.net from localhost (router,SLMail V3.2); Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:10:38 -0500 Received: by mail.wireweb.net from dragonlair (216.3.231.103::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:10:36 -0500 Message-ID: <37DAAA76.6969@wireweb.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:16:06 -0500 From: "Alexandria Doyle" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing w/o a maid: References: <19990911190745.20500.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SLUIDL: 0C51CEDF-681811D3-BB370040-33537EE5 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Alexandria Doyle" Sarah Toney wrote: > > -Poster: Sarah Toney > > This brings up a good question... I have a great > corset that I would *love* to wear more often, but the > only one around to help me lace it is my boyfriend who > won't do it... any suggestions on how to lace it by > yourself? > Make your lace really, really long. Loosely lace the corset while not wearing it, slide it on over your head and then start pulling on the laces until you have it as tight as you wish. This does leave a lot of extra lace when you have it done up so I tie big loopy bows and tuck inside as needed. Alexandria _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 14:22:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29567 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:22:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03103; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:38:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08375 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:36:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08369 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:36:11 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6GPV0PDCWv (4368) for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:35:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <860d7ce8.250c0916@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:35:50 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 9/10/1999 21:29:38 Pacific Daylight Time, KWHISLER@kentlaw.edu writes: << So, here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? >> That's an interesting question. I think that the more into the history of fashion, and the elaborate intricacies of costume I get, the less anything but simple modern clothing appeals to me (on a day to day basis). Since surgery a few years ago, I've begun to dress down (pants rather than skirts/suits at work) and affect a more casual daily mode of dress. I still go "all out" at any opportunity to dress up, but it is no longer a part of my routine to constantly sport the latest fashion, and I've always been a clothes horse. I think that it is a cost issue, meaning I'd rather have half a dozen really really spectacular period pieces and boring daily clothes. Fellow listers? angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 14:24:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29571 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:24:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03206; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:40:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08563 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:38:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08555 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:38:13 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6BWGa13741 (4368); Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:37:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2b6772a9.250c0982@aol.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:37:38 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: re-pinking To: h-costume@indra.com, grnmanforge@earthlink.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 9/10/1999 17:51:35 Pacific Daylight Time, cjcannon@greymists.com writes: << Wow--a die...anyone know of any craftsmen who might be making these? Or, alternately, happen to have handy the recipes for gum arabic/gum tragacanth? Carol >> Carol, contact Dan at grnmanforge@earthlink.net, he makes marvelous pinking tools, and his wife is a member of this list. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "Be not afraid of greatness; some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them." Twelfth-Night, II, v - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 14:29:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29582 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:29:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03566; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:45:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09155 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:43:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09150 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:43:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.181] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Pt3B-00028D-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:43:05 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:41:16 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Boring clothes? In-Reply-To: References: <199909110445.WAA16605@net.indra.com> <199909110445.WAA16605@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I cannot afford designer clothes, nor anything approaching such. I am not a seamstress, truly. I sew at a basic level. I mostly wear comfortable clothes that are not excessive for work and most other daily happenings. If I find them in my favorite colors, I will buy & wear those--which are: deep true blue, royal purple [blue-toned, not red-toned], deep teal [blue or green], emerald green. I won't wear 'muddy' colors. Most reds, pinks, oranges, and yellows do not suit my very pale complexion/ruddy cheeks/red hair. I don't wear most of those, either, therefore. Bittersweet is fine. I love the feel of silk, cashmere, and other costly fabrics, but cannot indulge the taste often. I like flowy, drapy skirts, dresses and nightgowns. I don't wear tight, constricting anything, by preference. I am still experimenting to find my niche in Medieval attire. I like Empire-waisted dresses in part because of the way they move. There are other periods with which I might experiment had I outlets for them, but I have not been able to justify to myself the cost of robing myself from those periods w/o that. :-) And now, you know more about me than most of the people around me do, in terms of what I like.--Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 14:56:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA30172 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:56:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06126; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:12:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12120 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:10:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12109 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:09:59 -0600 (MDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6NEOa23990 (4354) for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:09:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:09:18 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing w/o a maid: To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 9/11/99 1:13:52 PM Mountain Daylight Time, dragonlair@wireweb.net writes: << any suggestions on how to lace it by > yourself? >> There is also a hooking busk which hooks down the front available at corset supply houses. Cheryl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 14:56:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA30178 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:56:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06233; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:13:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12195 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:10:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12184 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:10:46 -0600 (MDT) From: MissMela@aol.com Received: from MissMela@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6CBYN0Mqq_ (4240) for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:10:12 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MissMela@aol.com In a message dated 9/11/1999 12:37:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, MzScahlett@aol.com writes: << So, here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? > >> As a designer for the entertainment industry and a full time college instructor, I have to be very presentable everyday, stand out enough to be noticed but not too much. Until recently, my entire wardrobe for fall/winter was black with a small amount of white while spring/summer was beige with white. Last year I finally discovered color and now my spring/summer clothes are reds and greens! What a change. I still have to wear heels and hose even though my heart is in flats. I feel like I lived out of the J.Peterman catalog for the last six or seven years, but as it is no longer available, I am looking for a new source of clothing supply. I don't have time to sew for myself! Basically Donna Karan and Anna Sui are the designers I gravitate to at this point in time and being in the Los Angeles area, am able to get their clothes at a decent price. I guess location plays a big part of what types of clothes are available along with what one must wear for ones job. Miss Mela PS Hi Penny! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 15:38:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30327 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:38:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09010; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:54:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16611 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:51:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.pa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.pa.home.com [24.2.5.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16606 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:51:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kjroom ([24.40.39.20]) by mail.rdc1.pa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990911205135.SSRG24110.mail.rdc1.pa.home.com@kjroom> for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:51:35 -0700 From: "Kristen Gee" To: Subject: H-COST: Tied on sleeves for Elizabethan? Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:51:40 -0400 Message-ID: <000901befc97$735fc4f0$0600a8c0@kjroom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Disposition-Notification-To: "Kristen Gee" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kristen Gee" Hi, I've been lurking for a while and am very impressed by how knowlegeable people are... Anyhow, I am making a elizabethan upper-middle-class costume for a ren. faire, and I wanted to know if tied-on sleeves were appropriate for English fashion at that time? I am a little confused about sleeves in general, too. Thank you! Kristen Kristen Gee kristen.gee@linkpa.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 15:51:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30341 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:51:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09914; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:07:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA18108 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:04:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f76.hotmail.com [207.82.250.182]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA18097 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:04:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 7073 invoked by uid 0); 11 Sep 1999 21:03:41 -0000 Message-ID: <19990911210341.7072.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.156.3.64 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:03:41 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.156.3.64] From: "Susannah Eanes" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/18C stays and shoulder straps Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 14:03:41 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susannah Eanes" I buy my reed from Michael's, which is a craft store chain. I do not have a mail order source; sorry! To the lady who was disappointed over reed that cracked... you do have to wax the reed first, before inserting it. This helps to strengthen it, make it more pliable, and preserves it. You can really feel the difference after the reed is waxed; it feels pretty puny actually before the waxing. And I usually have to replace a reed or two a year in my 18th c. fully boned corset. I used the 1/2" flat reed, and it *is* usually the reed on one of the sides that breaks, near the waist. I am smaller than most, and when making a corset for very strong/very mobile or larger women, always use the 5/8" wide reed, and on the seams, either reinforce ALL my corsets with steels, or a combination of steels and the half-round reeds. I store my corsets along with my other re-enacting garb in trunks either in my bedroom or another part of the house that stays pretty constant in temperature and humidity throughout the year. It helps. Susannah "We are only the trustees for those who come after us." --William Morris ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 16:04:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30365 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:04:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11072; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:20:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19680 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:17:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19673 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:17:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.161.142]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA24335 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:17:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37DAC791.7ADB10F@mediaone.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:20:17 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Pattern for 20's-30's tux? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas A friend of mine is looking for a pattern for men's 20's-30's tuxedos. She has friends in a band that plays the music of these periods. Does anyone know of any patterns out there. My husband has a 30's tux that he inherited and fits him, so I know some of the design differences to tell her. Anyone done one of these with a bought pattern? -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 16:54:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30964 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:54:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15317; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:10:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24991 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:08:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24986 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:08:17 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EK93GKTL; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:07:18 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:01:06 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Tied on sleeves for Elizabethan? Message-ID: <19990911.170124.-375991.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 6-7,12-17,19-23,25-26,28-38 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com Yes, detachable sleeves are appropriate for English Elizabethan middle-class. They weren't neccessarily tied in with individual ties as many reproductions are, they were often laced in with a strip of lacing holes under the shoulder of the bodice and along the edge of the sleeve. The early Elizabethan 'mahoitered' style of sleeve doesn't seem to be laced in, they seem to have been sewn in, although the tighter lower sleeves may have laced in seperately. Would it help to think of them as a separate piece of clothing, like a hat or scarf? Changing one's sleeves was a good way to alter the look of a gown without the trouble and expense of making a large and expensive pieces. Are you confused by the different styles? How they were constructed? What materials are appropriate? Oh yeah, and which RenFaire are you going to be doing? Karen On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:51:40 -0400 "Kristen Gee" writes: > > -Poster: "Kristen Gee" > > Hi, I've been lurking for a while and am very impressed by > how knowlegeable people are... Anyhow, I am making a elizabethan upper-middle-class > costume for a ren. faire, and I wanted to know if tied-on sleeves were > appropriate for English fashion at that time? I am a little confused about > sleeves in general, too. > Thank you! > Kristen > > Kristen Gee > kristen.gee@linkpa.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 17:22:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31016 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:22:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18624; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:38:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28664 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:36:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA28656 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:36:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Sat Sep 11 15:36:00 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:36:00 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Boring clothes? X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.36.132 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 12:41:16 Carol J. Bell Cannon wrote: > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > I cannot afford designer clothes, nor anything approaching such. I know, last time I went looking for a dress in an actual department store I nearly passed out. We have a store here called Ross, which sells overstock and buyout (like bankrupcy sales) from other stores. They usually have very nice clothes (some in actual designer names but, I mean it's more the look and feel of the clothes I think that's important than what te tag says) , so I shop there alot. They will tend to have that "item" you see on TV and can't find elsewhere. I like to take the pieces I see and blend them as part of my own style. I'm no high fashion mavin, I lack the body and the time to deal with all the prep work involved in being vogue. LOL. I just like dressing unique and it seems mostly the people here wear jeans and ambercrombie and fitch or old navy and I'm sorry, but I'm not going to spend thirty dollars on a t shirt to advertise a chain store that doesn't need my help in the first place. lol. I find actually some of the pretiest things I own were fairly chea! p and made by little "no name" comppanies. PS. You have red hair? I bet it's beautiful! I always wanted red hair but instead my hair is dark chocolate brown... I envy you. :) Ginn Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 17:30:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31044 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:30:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19229; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:46:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29422 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:44:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA29416 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:44:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Sat Sep 11 15:43:28 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 15:43:28 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: Boring clothes? X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.36.132 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" I am 5 ft 3 so I wear the heels for height mostly, I also tend to go for more of a cube heel or a wedge so it's not hard to walk in them, I"m definately not a stilleto person to say the least! lol --- Ginnaphure ICQ# 41340093 "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." >Having been a teenager in the 70's, I feel that I've already done my time, >and I don't wear high heels except for very formal occasions. > >Margo > Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 17:55:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31090 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:55:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21352; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:11:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02261 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:08:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.pa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.pa.home.com [24.2.5.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02250 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:08:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kjroom ([24.40.39.20]) by mail.rdc1.pa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990911230847.TISP24110.mail.rdc1.pa.home.com@kjroom> for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:08:47 -0700 From: "Kristen Gee" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Tied on sleeves for Elizabethan? Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:08:52 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01befcaa$9e829370$0600a8c0@kjroom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <19990911.170124.-375991.0.seamstrix@juno.com> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kristen Gee" I think that my confusion about sleeves is mostly style-based. I've heard of 'french sleeves' and I've seen lots of different things in paintings of that time period, but there never seems to be one 'standard sleeve'. Is that because there were a lot of different styles? Or were sleeve styles 'trendy' and change frequently? That's my issue of confusion. I am going to the Pennsylvania RenFaire in Mt. Hope, PA. I am making the costume for a high school costume competition (I'm in high school) Kristen ------------------------------ -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com Yes, detachable sleeves are appropriate for English Elizabethan middle-class. They weren't neccessarily tied in with individual ties as many reproductions are, they were often laced in with a strip of lacing holes under the shoulder of the bodice and along the edge of the sleeve. The early Elizabethan 'mahoitered' style of sleeve doesn't seem to be laced in, they seem to have been sewn in, although the tighter lower sleeves may have laced in seperately. Would it help to think of them as a separate piece of clothing, like a hat or scarf? Changing one's sleeves was a good way to alter the look of a gown without the trouble and expense of making a large and expensive pieces. Are you confused by the different styles? How they were constructed? What materials are appropriate? Oh yeah, and which RenFaire are you going to be doing? Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 18:37:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31708 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:37:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27177; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:53:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA07515 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:50:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07508 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:50:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.81.54] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A9AD238F00B6; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:45:49 -0400 Message-ID: <004d01befcb0$56e8e5e0$3651ccd1@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Boring clothes? Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:49:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 12:26 AM > -Poster: KATHARINE WHISLER > > So, here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday > life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a > fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? > What a fun thread! I guess you might say that I employ a sort of historical flair in my everyday dress. My favourite time in fashion history is the Edwardian era, followed closely by the Regency period. I love the empire waistlines common to both, they're so flattering, especially to a mom of 4 with a little "kangaroo pouch" left over from the pregnancies. ;-) You can nearly always find me running about in a dress with a raised waistline and an ankle-length skirt. I'm actually much more comfortable dressed this way than when wearing jeans or any sort of pants. Since I'm 5' 1" my dresses often brush the floor a bit which is just fine with me. (I'm sure my neighbours are beginning to question whether or not I actually have feet! lol.) I do tend to stay basic in my colour choice though, I'm a redhead too so my wardrobe is mostly taupe, cream, hunter and black. I cried when J. Peterman went out of business! I often matched wearable vintage separates with Peterman "retros". I'm getting the definite impression that J. Peterman isn't going to be what it used to be under the direction of Paul Harris. As for footwear, I've a few pairs of 1900's shoes that I wear (they're so beautifully made they'll probably hold up for another hundred years!) some modern-day copies and several pairs of ballet slippers. And when I go formal I love wearing either authentic vintage gowns or recreations. It's a great way to get conversations going at parties as the dresses never fail to attract some admirers. Enjoying all the posts, Kerrie, who was born to the wrong era. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 18:39:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31712 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:39:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27370; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:55:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA07832 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:53:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07826 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:53:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p5.directcon.net [206.170.184.104]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA26145 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909112351.QAA26145@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Tied on sleeves for Elizabethan? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 04:51 PM 09/11/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Kristen Gee" > > Hi, I've been lurking for a while and am very impressed by how knowlegeable >people are... Anyhow, I am making a elizabethan upper-middle-class costume >for a ren. faire, and I wanted to know if tied-on sleeves were appropriate >for English fashion at that time? Yes, absolutely, of course! Tie-on sleeves are very period. You say you're confused about sleeves in general, could you be a bit more specific? Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 18:42:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31719 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:42:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27555; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:57:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08060 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:55:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08052 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:55:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p5.directcon.net [206.170.184.104]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA26300 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909112354.QAA26300@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Tied on sleeves for Elizabethan? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >The early Elizabethan 'mahoitered' style of sleeve I've never heard this term. What is a mahoitered sleeve? margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 19:25:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31753 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:25:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00257; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:40:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA12221 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:38:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12214 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:38:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-61-83.s83.tnt1.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.61.83]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA28678 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008b01befcb6$c408a1a0$3b56accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:34:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" If Mela was taller or if I was shorter, we could be sisters, straight, long, red hair. I dress on the artsy side, never a black jacket for me! I dress differently for every occassion, at home, I am very casual, t-shirts and shorts. I like to keep people guessing as to what kind of work, I really do, by changing my appearance. I can dress like a ballet dancer, hippie, wearable art, vintage, soft/fluffy, or very artsy and colorful, but never boring. I like to name my outfits after "the look" they project. I shop frequently at the thrift stores and put together pieces that people would not normally put together. I never pay retail, except for shoes and undergarments, and then I go to the discount houses. I have a pet peeve about paying the retailers' LARGE markup. As for colors... well, you all know I LOVE color, so I wear every color but green and orange. I can wear either soft or loud colors. For accessories, I have gone through phases in "my looks". For a couple of years I was into jewelry and bangles, now I rarely wear jewelry. When I do, it is usually vintage. For a while, I was into lots of shoes, now I'm into hats with long scarves tied onto them. Heck, I even have a veil from Egyptian that I never wear the same way twice. The veil is really neat with all these bangleily coins and people trying to figure out where the jingling is coming from. For those who got the last CSA newletter or the last national symposium, you know what I dress like. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 19:28:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31769 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:28:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00708; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:44:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA12559 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:41:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12541 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:41:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id KAA16603 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:11:44 +0930 (CST) Received: by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA11651; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:11:44 +0930 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:11:44 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@bragg To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Boring clothes? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, KATHARINE WHISLER wrote: > > So, here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday > life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a > fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? > Hmmmm...let me put it this way...someone once told me I dressed more like an arts student than a science student. I don't buy new clothes often because I tend to look at stuff and think - I could make that for much cheaper. Of course I rarely do, although some of my stash is set aside for making 'mundane' clothes. Most of my new clothes come from the Community Aid Abroad shop. I tend to wear things until they are falling apart (and then my husband throws them out else I'd keep wearing them *grin*) I wear skirts a lot - either very long or very short. As far as shoes go I wear boots with 2" heels or flat sandals or none at all, though I do have a couple of pairs of dress shoes that don't see light of day much. Recently I've been making Edwardian style outfits for special occasions (weddings etc), and as anyone will tell you I'd much rather be wearing garb. You'll know the day I really stop caring what other people think because then I'll just be wearing it all the time. :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 19:32:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31784 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:32:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01029; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:48:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13020 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:46:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13014 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:46:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.187] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11PxmZ-0006WN-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:46:16 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:44:27 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: Historical Dress-making/Tailoring Terms Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" It was Kristin's post re: Elizabethan sleeves and the responses to it that brought on this from Me: Is there a really good on-line source for these? I've been seeing so many mentions of terms I don't understand. It would be fabulous to have such a resource bookmarked! But if not, is there a resource book that you'd recommend for those and other historical costuming terminology that one may require to look up in order to understand what the discussion is about? Thank you for your suggestions--Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 19:40:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31798 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:40:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01756; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:56:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA13677 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:54:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13667 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:54:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.83.163] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A8BA235000DC; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:50:02 -0400 Message-ID: <000901befcb9$4f5b85e0$a353ccd1@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: <008b01befcb6$c408a1a0$3b56accf@e4c2n6> Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:54:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 8:34 PM > -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > > If Mela was taller or if I was shorter, we could be sisters, straight, long, > red hair. > Whee! Fellow "fireys" (my brother's "pet" name for me, from the movie Labyrinth) ! I think several of the folks on this list have mentioned having red hair. I wonder if there's a link between follicle pigmentation and a passion for historical costume. Kerrie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 19:48:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31807 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:48:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02239; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:03:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA14488 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:01:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14475 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:01:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([208.255.165.145]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990912010101.OQLG24367@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:01:01 +0000 Message-ID: <37DAF904.967D449C@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:51:16 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing w/o a maid: References: <19990911190745.20500.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> <37DAAA76.6969@wireweb.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Alexandria Doyle wrote: > Make your lace really, really long. Loosely lace the corset while not > wearing it, slide it on over your head and then start pulling on the > laces until you have it as tight as you wish. This does leave a lot of > extra lace when you have it done up so I tie big loopy bows and tuck > inside as needed. I also do this, although it depends on *which* corset I'm wearing as to how long i make the ties. My Italian Ren corset actually has pretty short laces on it because I can get it over my head even on a short leash. Can't do that with the Victorian, though. You can also tie long laces around your waist if they're long enough. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 19:49:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31820 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:49:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02327; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:05:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA14653 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:03:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14645 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:03:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([208.255.165.145]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990912010249.ORGP24367@worldnet.att.net> for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:02:49 +0000 Message-ID: <37DAF970.7F6F8D90@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 17:53:05 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing w/o a maid: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Cheryldee@aol.com wrote: > -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com > > In a message dated 9/11/99 1:13:52 PM Mountain Daylight Time, > dragonlair@wireweb.net writes: > > << any suggestions on how to lace it by > > yourself? >> > There is also a hooking busk which hooks down the front available at corset > supply houses. Cheryl The problem I have with the hooking busk in the front is that I have to loosen the laces in the back to actually hook it. I can't hook them if it's completely tied in back. So I leave the laces tied but at their maximum length so I can separate the back and get the hooks fastened. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 19:59:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31855 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:59:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02943; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:15:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA15586 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:12:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15234; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:09:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-61-83.s83.tnt1.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.61.83]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA05718; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:09:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00a501befcbb$1ad679e0$3b56accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Cc: "h-needlework" , "Vintage" , "Fantasy" , "WearableArt" , "Costume DC" Subject: H-COST: Call for Papers and Study Tour Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:06:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I am sorry about the mass posting, but I wanted all of you to know... The Costume Society of America's National Symposium, "Fashions Lost and Found, or Survival of the Fittest" will be in Williamsburg and Richmond, Virginia, May 31-June 3, 2000, http://www.costumesocietyamerica.com/natsym.htm . The symposium will include Colonial Williamsburg, behind-the-scenes at the Valentine Museum, and the Maymont House (aka Dooley Mansion). Currently, there is a Call for Papers for this symposium with a deadline of Oct. 15, 1999. These papers can cover any part of our industry, from historic to wearable art fashions. I have added to the website, an agenda webpage on the pre and post symposium study tours. The pre-symposium tour will include Monticello (home of Thomas Jefferson), Sherwood Forest (home of John Tyler). The post syposium tour will include, Yorktown, Jamestown, Kenmore Plantation, Stratford Hall (Robert E. Lee's family home), and Gunston Hall. A symposium schedule of events and registration information will be posted to the website in January or February, 2000. So please bookmark this webpage. Penny Ladnier Webmaster, Costume Society of America http://www.costumesocietyamerica.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 20:01:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31895 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:01:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03229; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:17:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA15956 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:15:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.vci.net (smtp.vci.net [207.162.160.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15949 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:15:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vci.net (pah-c1-243.vci.net [207.162.162.243] (may be forged)) by smtp.vci.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA27314 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:15:36 -0500 Message-ID: <37DAFF5B.99B68F22@vci.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:18:20 -0500 From: "schuck@vci.net" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr-FR,de,ru,es-AR,sv MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: wool question References: <199909110445.WAA16605@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "schuck@vci.net" Forgive me if this has been asked before, I'm fairly new to this list. How is wool fabric fulled? jb <<>> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 20:03:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31903 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:03:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03325; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:19:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA16085 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:16:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16076 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:16:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p15.directcon.net [206.170.184.64]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA03301 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 18:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909120115.SAA03301@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing w/o a maid: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I lace into a Victorian corset by myself this way: First, I use 1/4" satin ribbon for lacing. It slide easily, and is very, very, strong. I use a lace about 3' longer than the laced portion, laced so that there are loops at the waist on each side. I put it on over my head and hook the loops over the handle of my patio door, then slowly walk away, and the lace pulls tight as I walk. Reach behind, unhook the loops, and tie them in a large bow and tuck the hanging bits inside the lacing. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 20:05:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31914 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:05:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03552; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:21:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA16276 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:19:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16264 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-61-83.s83.tnt1.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.61.83]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA08014 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:18:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00b701befcbc$7210afe0$3b56accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <008b01befcb6$c408a1a0$3b56accf@e4c2n6> <000901befcb9$4f5b85e0$a353ccd1@ouppc> Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:16:27 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > Whee! Fellow "fireys" (my brother's "pet" name for me, from the movie > Labyrinth) ! I think several of the folks on this list have mentioned > having red hair. I wonder if there's a link between follicle pigmentation > and a passion for historical costume. My red hair comes from a bottle, but I can claim my gray hairs came from taking too many historic costume classes and five hour exams!!!! LOL. Maybe, Mela's red hair came from teaching historic costume. No... Mela was not my professor, just a wonderful person I met on this list. Really, I have always wanted long red hair since second grade. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 20:12:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32373 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:12:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04518; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:28:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17004 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:26:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.suffolk.lib.ny.us ([199.173.91.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16998 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:26:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bchamber (dial-in168 [199.173.93.168]) by mx.suffolk.lib.ny.us (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA04040 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <052501befcbd$ca5773e0$a85dadc7@bchamber> From: "Beth" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Boring clothes? Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:25:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Beth" > So, here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday > life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a > fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? I worked through de-lurking day so I guess I'll de-lurk now. One (one of a long list) of the reasons I sew is because I usually can't stand about 95% of whatever the current fashions of the day are. A fair portion of my wardrobe is very basic - at first glance. At second glance anyone who cares to see it will realize all of my skirts are to my ankles. My mother swears I'm a flower child except that most of the fabrics and styles are more Victorian. I also tend to incorporate historic details - puffed sleeves, ribbon embroidery, high collars, contrast inserts - to simulate slashing, or anything else I can think up (and find the time to make). I also have a "thing" for mixing old and new. Several years ago I made a georgette dress from a Donna Karan pattern - the dress is unlined I and wear a unitard under it - funky and modern except that the fabric is a pretty kind of Victorian floral print. "Granny" boots became a signature item way back in high school - they were perfect with the Gunny Sack dresses I was knocking off as every day clothes. But then my taste in clothing is not the only part of my personality which appears normal - at first glance... Beth - who needs to get back to stitching many little ribbon flowers onto a vest. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 20:16:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32380 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:16:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04853; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:32:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17426 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:30:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17417 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:30:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA03882 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:27:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <026201befcbe$9b8011c0$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:31:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >My red hair comes from a bottle, but I can claim my gray hairs came from >taking too many historic costume classes and five hour exams!!!! LOL. I've got red-hair-from-a-bottle, too, although my natural hair color is a rich brown which used to get red highlights in the summer. Now it's just a nice deep auburny color, and those pesky grey hairs stay hidden, too! (I've really only been noticing those for about a year--coincidentally, I finished my PhD during that year :-) Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 20:22:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32389 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:22:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05337; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:38:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA18052 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:36:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18045 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:36:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA04320 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:33:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <026701befcbf$717b1f40$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Boring clothes? Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:37:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >> So, here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday >> life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a >> fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? > >I worked through de-lurking day so I guess I'll de-lurk now. One (one of a >long list) of the reasons I sew is because I usually can't stand about 95% >of whatever the current fashions of the day are. That sounds like me. I like jewel tone colors and black during the whole season, not just in the winter, and I tend to like specific styles which aren't always available--things like mandarin colors and oriental-style fastenings, longer skirts, etc. And I love unusual fabrics (well, unusual to find off the rack in stores) like brocades and silks. I have a deep electric purple dupionni silk shirt/jacket I made about four years ago that gets me raves every time I wear it to work (I've got to find that pattern again!). Although most of my wardrobe is fairly conservative office wear, I often wear historic jewelery to accessorize it. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 20:52:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32414 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:52:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08154; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:07:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA20892 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:05:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from boomer.brightok.net (boomer.brightok.net [206.30.97.13]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20878 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:05:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail.brightok.net (springer1p44.cld.brightok.net [206.30.113.44]) by boomer.brightok.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10431 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:05:25 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37DB0CC8.798F424E@mail.brightok.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:15:37 -0500 From: The Mulders X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes References: <008b01befcb6$c408a1a0$3b56accf@e4c2n6> <000901befcb9$4f5b85e0$a353ccd1@ouppc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Mulders Weird, I also have red hair. Could be we are just more proud of it so we include it in a description? Vince Lyons wrote: > -Poster: "Vince Lyons" > > ----- Original Message ----- > Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 8:34 PM > > -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > > > > If Mela was taller or if I was shorter, we could be sisters, straight, > long, > > red hair. > > > Whee! Fellow "fireys" (my brother's "pet" name for me, from the movie > Labyrinth) ! I think several of the folks on this list have mentioned > having red hair. I wonder if there's a link between follicle pigmentation > and a passion for historical costume. > > Kerrie > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 21:20:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32432 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:20:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10259; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:36:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23456 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:34:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23449 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:34:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990912023413.EFJW16271.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:34:13 -0700 Message-ID: <37DB1106.D3EEAF6A@home.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:33:42 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Boring clothes? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent KATHARINE WHISLER wrote: > > So, here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your > everyday life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a > fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? I wear primarily jeans or shorts & shirts...we have a Goodwill warehouse in town where they take all the clothes that don't sell so I go and buy linen, cotton & silk items for $1.27 a pound...amazing how much silk it takes for a pound! I also use this resource for some costuming (bought a bunch of stuff there over the summer for this fall's production of 'Inherit the Wind'). For dressy I tend to wear more modern versions of a cotehardie or short skirts & tights & the silk or linen shirts. When I go to the plays I wear the same shirts with cotton or linen pants (have to be more conservative because it's a high school! ). I have very, very, very bad knees (one reason I'm a stay at home mom) and *always* wear flats...unfortunately my feet have shrunk back after having my son and my last two pair of thigh high suede boots don't fit anymore (not that it bothered my dh who tried them on and discovered with a wee bit of stretching at the little toe they would fit *him*!). So it's time to hit Nolensville Road again once I have some more money (a stretch in Nashville that includes 7 thrift or consignment stores and one of the Hancock Fabrics!) . I didn't pay more than $25 for any of my boots and don't plan to pay more for 'new' ones! I've been known to wear garb out and about as well as around the house. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 21:25:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32436 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:25:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10584; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:41:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23867 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:38:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23860 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:38:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990912023845.EGLQ16271.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 19:38:45 -0700 Message-ID: <37DB1216.DD6A57E9@home.com> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:38:14 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes References: <026201befcbe$9b8011c0$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > > I've got red-hair-from-a-bottle, too, although my natural hair color > is a rich brown which used to get red highlights in the summer. Now > it's just a nice deep auburny color, and those pesky grey hairs stay > hidden, too! (I've really only been noticing those for about a > year--coincidentally, I finished my PhD during that year :-) My gray hair comes from children (I left grad school because my biological clock went atomic). My natural color is a light auburn and I color it to make it more like the red it was when I was young. I had bright red hair and blue eyes until I was three when my eyes turned green and my hair a deeper red...then when we moved to Nashville when I was 9 my eyes turned brown and my hair went auburn. Kat wondering if we can get a large enough population to 'prove' the redhead/costumer theory! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 21:28:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA32444 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:28:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10954; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:44:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24309 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:42:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alchemyweb.greateralchemy.net ([209.186.228.137]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA24295 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 20:42:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ELEMENTAL (unverified [209.30.225.181]) by alchemyweb.greateralchemy.net (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:52:02 -0500 Received: by ELEMENTAL with Microsoft Mail id <01BEFC9E.4CA88F20@ELEMENTAL>; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:40:43 -0500 Message-ID: <01BEFC9E.4CA88F20@ELEMENTAL> From: Carrie Veenstra To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:36:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BEFC9E.4CA88F20" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carrie Veenstra ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEFC9E.4CA88F20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Kerrie -- add me to the list of redheads.. and until now I've never met a redhead = with such a similar name! Maybe it's the fair skin that directs our interest in times when such = was really a fashion asset (as opposed to the more recent era of tanned = skin) Carrie -----Original Message----- From: Vince Lyons [SMTP:vjlyons@snip.net] Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 7:54 PM To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes -Poster: "Vince Lyons" ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Saturday, September 11, 1999 8:34 PM > -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > > If Mela was taller or if I was shorter, we could be sisters, straight, long, > red hair. > Whee! Fellow "fireys" (my brother's "pet" name for me, from the movie Labyrinth) ! I think several of the folks on this list have mentioned having red hair. I wonder if there's a link between follicle = pigmentation and a passion for historical costume. Kerrie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEFC9E.4CA88F20 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IisCAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAoAEAAAEAAAAQAAAAAwAAMAIAAAAL AA8OAAAAAAIB/w8BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGgtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRy YS5jb20AU01UUABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAD MAEAAAAUAAAAaC1jb3N0dW1lQGluZHJhLmNvbQADABUMAQAAAAMA/g8GAAAAHgABMAEAAAAWAAAA J2gtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRyYS5jb20nAAAAAgELMAEAAAAZAAAAU01UUDpILUNPU1RVTUVASU5EUkEu Q09NAAAAAAMAADkAAAAACwBAOgEAAAAeAPZfAQAAABQAAABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAIB 918BAAAARQAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAGgtY29zdHVtZUBpbmRyYS5jb20AU01U UABoLWNvc3R1bWVAaW5kcmEuY29tAAAAAAMA/V8BAAAAAwD/XwAAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAAC 2VQBBIABADMAAABSRTogSC1DT1NUOiBIb3cgQ29zdHVtZXJzIGRyZXNzL3dhcyBCb3JpbmcgY2xv dGhlcwBaEQEFgAMADgAAAM8HCQALABUAJAA7AAYAZAEBIIADAA4AAADPBwkACwAVACEANwAGAF0B AQmAAQAhAAAARjRDNTZFN0Q4RjY4RDMxMThDMUEwMEEwMjQ5MDFBRjQAJgcBA5AGAJgHAAAhAAAA CwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AADc2q/H /L4BHgBwAAEAAAAzAAAAUkU6IEgtQ09TVDogSG93IENvc3R1bWVycyBkcmVzcy93YXMgQm9yaW5n IGNsb3RoZXMAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG+/Mev031uxfVojxHTjBoAoCSQGvQAAB4AHgwBAAAABQAA AFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAAaAAAAY2FycmllQGdyZWF0ZXJhbGNoZW15Lm5ldAAAAAMABhB5aQRr AwAHEHoDAAAeAAgQAQAAAGUAAABLRVJSSUUtLUFERE1FVE9USEVMSVNUT0ZSRURIRUFEU0FORFVO VElMTk9XSVZFTkVWRVJNRVRBUkVESEVBRFdJVEhTVUNIQVNJTUlMQVJOQU1FTUFZQkVJVFNUSEVG QUlSU0tJAAAAAAIBCRABAAAAXAQAAFgEAACaBgAATFpGdSWc7dADAAoAcmNwZzEyNRYyAPgLYG4O EDAzM50B9yACpAPjAgBjaArA4HNldDAgBxMCgwBQoRB2cHJxMhF2fQqA2QjIIDsJbw4wNQKACoEs dWMAUAsDYwBBdWzKbgIgZQumIEsEkAiBOCAtLQqiCoQKgGFkRGQgB4AgdG8ZcGiNGBBsBAAFQG9m IAlxwxnAGRBzLi4gAHAZMB51AjADERbwB+BJJ3a/GBAXEBwgBcAHgAVAYRpm5iAD8BmwIHMWAB3A HPBNAJBtAxAKwW5hB4AhYRhaTWF5YhgQHaAnmwQgGbJmC3AFwHNrC4C1GaFhBUBkIPAFkHQEIP8I YSAwAjAEkAeQBUAhQgdzzncZwAOgHeN3YQQgCXAZB0BseRzhINBzaGkvAiAbEAQQHMEoJFFvcPxw bxEwGTAZhQRgCXAaYf5jCfAFQASQHPAaQRlwAHC3FxAZMCEiKRhaGFRDCsDPCIEpLgswGfAzNgFA FpA7AUASwG8ioCIAEgQxNusYIS1hTwUQZwuAB0AF0OEHkHNhZ2UtYxhWLHQHLEELEyx2aS0xNDTj AUAZ8DE4MAFADNAxA6hiIEYDYToMg2IRYMZWC4AnkCBMeQIgBCAAW1NNVFA6dmqTJMAzoUBzAwBw LhcQ/HRdGFUyMAZgAjAylwYQanQIcGQf8CwGUQUwZZMG0ByBMTE3MDE5OEAAIDc6NTQgUE3JNVdU bzKXaC0FoBoQqnUHgEALgGQn8C4FoGJtNVh1Ymoh8TKXUgBlOiBILUNPU/5UPREb0QhQOnMRICGw IsE0cy8kQkIFsAuAZyD+YwkAGbEQwC8fMCkrxAu2uRhpLVA6YQSQPRAiMynoIiA8NE4+KS9DYC1i fiAtvi1UGFQ14zavN7s4tDozOLg+GCBDh1AJ8HpuJNBMGRADAASQRMFwX00SOyAkgRuAHCAuCGB0 /mwRQDSgBJAG8BrgOzFF9f9QBhvwGlAuQAtgJDMBkCSw/xyBBbEGkBvwJDMlMAkRBJD9SiB3GBAF oBbQGTAgEQCQPUOic0ogGhAn8C3QaHT+LBhUCQAPIFVVTEAJcTog9SDhLlAbVxnAHwAyQFFAWwkA B+AiMNAJcHlEsShabSTQYixxGcByIGEi/U4AdETAHtIgwAWxB4BKIJsDUibVdiqGTWBieT9ReRmw KSBYMFKBGbALgGu/HdAcYi4RGkEgkwbwayIh/yFSBAAZ5BEAHCEHgBtxFwG/CzEYcmAhP2JWl11i dwIg9wSBUlJZwmUgYRzwGfBd0f0gEHRTgCPBXvEZ8D+gGBD+cC3QYHJOkQIgGLUbMRzwfwqwBBAl UlriX5EZgAUQY+cuETpVGwA8Z0X7F8QYWvwgX2rva/9tD23ranU5gP8Z4BqwHCFfgwDAAxA/Yhny v1SxCfAZMXBRGXIAwGoFsHpkA3BvOs4dhCbjSCVVAE5TVUJTQ1JJxEJFPSVVTUUYVBOBAgB2kAMA EBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAADAIAQ/////0AABzBgMmpCx/y+AUAACDBgMmpCx/y+AQsAAIAIIAYAAAAA AMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAOFAAAAAAAAAwAEgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAALcNAAAeAAWA CCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABUhQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjAAAwAGgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYA AAAAAYUAAAAAAAALAA+ACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAOhQAAAAAAAAMAEIAIIAYAAAAAAMAA AAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAAAwARgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAAAAADABSACCAG AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAAAAAAAB4AJIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAA AQAAAAAAAAAeACWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgAmgAggBgAA AAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAAAwANNP03 AAD/2Q== ------ =_NextPart_000_01BEFC9E.4CA88F20-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 22:16:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA32467 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:16:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14946; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:32:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28653 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:29:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28648 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:29:47 -0600 (MDT) From: MissMela@aol.com Received: from MissMela@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6HWGa01827 (4310) for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:29:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:29:13 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MissMela@aol.com In a message dated 9/11/1999 7:39:14 PM Pacific Daylight Time, kdyer@home.com writes: << My natural color is a light auburn and I color it to make it more like the red it was when I was young. I had bright red hair and blue eyes until I was three when my eyes turned green and my hair a deeper red...then when we moved to Nashville when I was 9 my eyes turned brown and my hair went auburn. >> I can't believe it! Another person whose eyes turned from blue to green. Mine turned about my 21st birthday and have been green ever since. My natural color was also a light auburn, but after too many summers of my hair turning "Lucy" red, I went to coloring my hair. My husband says that it has been so many years since I have seen my natural color that who knows what color it is now! Oh, Penny, one week after I saw you last, I spiral permed all that long hair of mine and it's still that way. No more straight hair. My mother says I refuse to grow up! Miss Mela _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 22:42:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00786 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:42:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17196; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:57:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA01536 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:55:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01529 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:55:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.161.142]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA01642 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:55:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37DB24B5.4A843D34@mediaone.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:57:41 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Boring Clothes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas I was born a redhead but but the time I was 19 it was med. to dk. brown with copper highlights. Given enough sun, it was brown at the roots, red in the middle and strawberry on the ends. When I entered cronehood, I decided to cover the gray by going back to red. For theatre reasons, I was Strawberry blonde till now. For Fall I'll be light Auburn. I tend to grow my hair to waist length then chop off a foot or more of it. I can't stand much in the way of prints, either on or around me so tend to depend on solid colors. Half my wardrobe got put away when I went red, so I'm adding deep browns and greens. I'm basically conservative in Nature. I'm one of the few around here who dresses up or wears hat and gloves to events. Goes back to being brought up in the Fifties here in New England. When I ran workshops in winter, I would always wear black wool trousers, a black or white turtleneck and a deep color plaid wool big shirt. Of course, I'd add "buttons" with amusing costumer sayings to lighten things up. In the summer I'm fond of sundresses and shorts. I have too many tee shirts with show logos on them. I can wear short skirts, but find I'll reach for a long one instead. When I go shopping, the only clothes I can wear off the rack tend to be the most expensive ones! I'm tall, sort of thin (for my age), narrow backed with a widened ribcage because of my singing. I've acquired hordes of jewelry over the years, most of which gets loaned out for stage use. I find that I tend to wear only the smaller, better pieces now-a-days. Oh yes, my husband likes to surprise me every so often by going to the Original Filene's Basement and coming home with several gorgeous evening gowns, so I have more than I'll ever use, not to mention the ones I've grown out of. I think I have at least 6 tiaras, but I don't just use them for me. My favorite outfits are the ones I pick up at Renn faires, costume conventions and Costume College. I like the unusual just like the rest of us, and often wear them as hall costumes at several of the conventions I go to each year. Life would be too boring without "Costumes"! -- Janice Dallas Boston, MA area, USA JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 22:47:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00799 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:47:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17820; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:03:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02150 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:00:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02141 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:00:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-33qse0e.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.56.14]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA22492 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:00:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00e901befcd3$64acd560$0e38aec7@oemcomputer> From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" To: Subject: H-COST: Silk question Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:00:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" Is silkessence (blouse weight) anything close to period? It's going on sale near me next weekend for under 2 bucks a yard, and if it's passable I'd like to make my new chemise out of it. Also, any hints on sewing it? Anya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 22:54:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00823 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:54:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18599; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:10:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02906 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:08:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from edtnps04.telusplanet.net (edtnps04.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.104]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02889 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:08:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clgrtnt5-port-189.agt.net ([161.184.52.189]:1030 "HELO Freya") by smtp1.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <68984-12447>; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:07:53 -0600 X-Sender: agottfre@pop.telusplanet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: H-COST: 'Strapt' shirts, c. 1778 X-Mailer: Message-Id: <19990912040801Z68984-12447+18@smtp1.telusplanet.net> Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:07:53 -0600 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Can someone help me untangle this one? On a list of English trading goods sent to the Hudson's Bay Company's Cumberland House post in 1777 (Rich 1:362-363), I found the following items of clothing: "Shirts white strapt/Shirts check strapt" For the same post in 1778, there are "Shirts cotton striped/Shirts white Strapt/Shirts check Plain" In both lists, the "white strapt" shirts are the most common. I haven't a clue what they are, though. I've seen shirts and other items of clothing on many inventory lists for the 1774-1821 period and most of them make sense, but this has me stumped. The editor of another journal of an HBC post c. 1790 interpreted "Shirts SS" as "shoulder strap" shirts, which I'd never heard of. (I figured it probably meant swanskin shirts--which I'd seen elsewhere--until now.) Any suggestions are welcome. Your obliged and obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 22:54:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00827 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:54:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18677; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:10:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02994 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:08:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02986 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:08:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id VAA39690 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:08:42 -0700 Received: from UNKNOWN(208.48.173.139), claiming to be "smadsenprimenet.com" via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdTWmrEa; Sat Sep 11 21:08:34 1999 Message-ID: <02a501befcd4$58986040$3c3084ce@com> From: "Lee" To: Subject: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:07:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Lee" I have so little time to sew for myself that I dress more boringly than I'd like. It's also too hot here in Arizona much of the year to wear the wearable art leather jackets I've made for myself. But I prefer to overdress for any occasion rather than underdressed as does my DH. He's agreed to wear his new leather doublets with jeans for everyday wear and bemoans how boring the men's section of clothing stores is. I bought a pattern for a ruffled man's shirt at the sale, and I've promised to make him a couple of each of the three styles, and this is also for daily wear. I got some patterns for some Goth-type dresses for myself to have fun with. I'm still looking for the Zoot suit and Shakespeare in Love patterns; they aren't out yet here! We'll wear anything and everything that we like. We're also looking forward to moving to Los Angeles later this year, because we'll be able to wear our favorite things more! Kels _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 22:56:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00837 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:56:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18901; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:12:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA03232 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:09:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03219 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:09:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA12925 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004b01befcd4$eedd4f20$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk question Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:11:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings-- >Is silkessence (blouse weight) anything close to period? It's going on sale >near me next weekend for under 2 bucks a yard, and if it's passable I'd like >to make my new chemise out of it. Also, any hints on sewing it? While I've found silkessence doesn't do too bad a job of looking like silk, the real thing I'd worry about when making a chemise out of it would be what kind of weather you'd be wearing it in. It doesn't breathe much, and if it's going to be directly next to your skin, particularly if you're wearing one of the more fitted styles, you may find it similar to wearing a plastic bag. However, if it's for something looser, and you're not going to be wearing it in hot weather, you could certainly do worse... Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 23:00:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00855 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:00:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19263; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:16:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA03740 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:14:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03731 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:14:24 -0600 (MDT) From: MissMela@aol.com Received: from MissMela@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6OXZa20496 (4203) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:13:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:13:46 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MissMela@aol.com In a message dated 9/11/1999 9:09:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time, smadsen@primenet.com writes: << We're also looking forward to moving to Los Angeles later this year, because we'll be able to wear our favorite things more! Kels >> Let us know when and exactly where you move. Then we can point out all the good shopping places! Mela _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 23:13:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00866 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:13:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20053; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:29:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04995 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:26:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04989 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:26:56 -0600 (MDT) From: HighlndLss@aol.com Received: from HighlndLss@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6XQW0r8hE_ (4546) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:26:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8da8f59a.250c856e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:26:22 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/18C stays and shoulder straps To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: HighlndLss@aol.com Thank you for the tip about waxing the reed for the stays, that's something that I didn't think of. The stays that I had with the reed was good for a few years, but then the cracking of the reed got to be too much of a problem trying to continually replace. I have since made my stays completely from the spring steel, which, because of my chest-heavy figure is really the strength that I probably needed in the first place. I also found that I was more comfortable making both a front and back lacing pattern. I have a tendency to shift weight a lot. So having the possibility of adjusting both front and back together is really helpful. I adjust the back so that the front will always come completely together when laced. Then I leave the back lacing in place, and at events always use the front for putting the stays on and off. This is so much easier for dressing in the mornings. Thanks for your suggestions, Susan K. 42nd HRH & 17th Light Dragoons _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 23:20:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00879 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:20:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20782; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:36:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA05601 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:33:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05593 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:33:51 -0600 (MDT) From: HighlndLss@aol.com Received: from HighlndLss@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6PJVjCG8z_ (4546) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:33:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:33:17 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: HighlndLss@aol.com I believe that silkessence is really polyester, and not real silk at all. I don't know how period correct that you like to be. But if you are doing 18th century for example, silk would not be something used for chemises, except for a very wealthy women. And it would never pass inspections for camp life. But since I am not familiar with what you are portraying, and the amount of authenticity that you are portraying, that would be your decision. Hope this is helpful, Susan K. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 23:24:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00889 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:24:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21169; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:40:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA05994 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:37:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05987 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:37:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.190] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Q1OU-0005Ey-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:37:38 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 21:35:52 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 12:13 AM 09/12/1999 -0400, you wrote: >Let us know when and exactly where you move. Then we can point out all the >good shopping places! Mela I'm beginning to feel very left out, between those of you able to shop the LA and NY fabric/clothing dists. {VERY BIG Wistful sigh} Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 11 23:35:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00900 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:35:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22023; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:51:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06949 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:49:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06942 for ; Sat, 11 Sep 1999 22:49:00 -0600 (MDT) From: MissMela@aol.com Received: from MissMela@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6SKR00DUZn (7805) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:48:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <58350079.250c8a9c@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:48:28 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: 1895 Lancers full levee dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MissMela@aol.com I am starting on a 17th or 16th (haven't found the right wool yet) 1895 Lancer's Full Levee Dress uniform for my husband but am having trouble locating the correct hat. I have pictures but do not know who sells them. Any help list? Miss Mela _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 03:08:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA30576 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 03:08:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29988; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:28:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA19312 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:25:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA19306 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 01:25:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.182] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Q40u-00068h-00; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:25:28 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 00:23:40 -0700 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: Stencilling vs. Block Printing Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Does anyone know when each technique became available to/used in the attire of the nobility in Europe and the Middle East? Thank you. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 04:18:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA31307 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 04:18:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05405; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 03:34:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA20167 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 03:32:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20012 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 03:32:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([12.66.2.203]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with SMTP id <19990912093133.TIXH24367@LOCALNAME> for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:31:33 +0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Connie Carroll" Organization: Home For Deranged Bunnies To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 05:29:57 +0000 Subject: Re: H-COST: Handsewing question Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.30) Message-Id: <19990912093133.TIXH24367@LOCALNAME> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Connie Carroll" > << Back stitching is a must for the corset. >> > If you look inside most hand sewn period clothing, you will find > either that the entire garment has been made with a small, regular > backstitch, or with a running backstitch. (3 or 4 running stitches > followed by a backstitch). The seam allowances are also most often > overcast to prevent fraying. Hope this helps. Cheryl Odom That's how I do my hand sewing. I prefer it to machine sewing. I just seem to have a lead foot with the machine. It sounds silly but I don't have the patience for the machine but I do for working with my hands. It's more relaxing for me. Kassandra NickKraken JUST CALL ME MISTRESS BUNNY _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 08:03:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32120 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:03:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13278; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 07:19:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05535 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 07:17:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA05525; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 07:17:16 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 07:17:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909121317.HAA05525@net.indra.com> From: "Margo Glenn-Lewis" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Helpful Pets Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Margo Glenn-Lewis" Around here we call them organic fabric weights. And if I get the right combination of cats, it is actually quite effective (unless I am cutting velvet...) Speaking of velvet, has anyone used the Simplicity Celtic pattern? I am thinking of getting it for Scottish County Dance. Margo Glenn-Lewis (No, I'm a different Margo.) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 08:32:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA32756 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:32:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14928; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 07:48:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA08046 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 07:46:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA08041 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 07:46:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from airmail.net from [207.136.20.172] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.405) with esmtp for sender: id ; Sun, 12 Sep 99 08:46:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37DBADFD.7026233D@airmail.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:43:25 -0500 From: Megan & David Schmidt X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes/RED HAIR References: <026201befcbe$9b8011c0$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> <37DB1216.DD6A57E9@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Megan & David Schmidt Auburn/reddish here. Not as red as it was when I swam every day outside as a kid, but still reddish. (a tiny bit chemically enhanced with some highlights. :-) ) Megan Kat & Kent wrote: > -Poster: Kat & Kent > > Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > > > > I've got red-hair-from-a-bottle, too, although my natural hair color > > is a rich brown which used to get red highlights in the summer. Now > > it's just a nice deep auburny color, and those pesky grey hairs stay > > hidden, too! (I've really only been noticing those for about a > > year--coincidentally, I finished my PhD during that year :-) > > My gray hair comes from children (I left grad school because my > biological clock went atomic). My natural color is a light auburn and I > color it to make it more like the red it was when I was young. I had > bright red hair and blue eyes until I was three when my eyes turned > green and my hair a deeper red...then when we moved to Nashville when I > was 9 my eyes turned brown and my hair went auburn. > > Kat > wondering if we can get a large enough population to 'prove' the > redhead/costumer theory! > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 10:15:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01090 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:15:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22428; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:30:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16941 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:27:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net (svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16933 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:27:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem91.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.91] helo=herimats) by svr-a-01.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 11QBXc-0008SW-00; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:27:45 +0100 Message-ID: <153301befd33$5f3d39c0$5b065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: , Subject: H-COST: Any help ,UK Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:27:19 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_152E_01BEFD3B.AF475CE0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_152E_01BEFD3B.AF475CE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear List , can anyone help . I have finally convinced my friend that = she should take a little bit more trouble with costume for some event = she visits to ehibit her basketmaking. She has thrown thi sback in my = lap. In time for the Robin Hood festival at the end of October I have to come = up with a suitable outfit for this and for other "generally mediaeval " = events; this is not re-enacting. Size 12 maroon (ish) I dont have time or space (or inclination ) to start getting all of the = costumemaking gear together ; So I am looking for somebody who can supply this in time; If pos in easy = travelling distance ; She in Castle Donington Mr in Birmingham.- to = collect etc Any suggestions ? please/ Dave +++++++++++++++++++++++++ L.D.Mundy=20 Editor.Heritage Matters ------=_NextPart_000_152E_01BEFD3B.AF475CE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear List , can anyone help . I have = finally=20 convinced my friend that she should take a little bit more trouble with = costume=20 for some event she visits to ehibit her basketmaking. She has thrown thi = sback=20 in my lap.
In time for the Robin Hood festival at = the end of=20 October I have to come up with a suitable outfit for this and for other=20 "generally mediaeval " events; this is not re-enacting. Size 12 maroon=20 (ish)
I dont have time or space (or = inclination ) to=20 start getting all of the costumemaking gear together ;
So I am looking for somebody who can = supply this in=20 time; If pos in easy travelling distance ; She in Castle Donington Mr in = Birmingham.- to collect etc
Any  suggestions ? = please/
Dave
 
 
 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
L.D.Mundy
Editor.Heritage=20 Matters
------=_NextPart_000_152E_01BEFD3B.AF475CE0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 10:29:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01104 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:29:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23503; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:44:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18337 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:42:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18332 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:42:27 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) id IAA18792 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:42:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909121542.IAA18792@eclipse.pacifier.com> Received: from ip195.van18.pacifier.com(216.65.137.195), claiming to be "grendal2" via SMTP by smtp.pacifier.com, id smtpdBAAteaGJK; Sun Sep 12 08:42:17 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:45:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Finishing on Slashed Edges Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.3.32.19990910172058.006c3710@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> References: <19990909230038.79179.qmail@hotmail.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > I'm working on the theory that the "pinked" type of ornamental slashing, > even when quite extensive, doesn't have a visible means to stop fraying. > Previously on the list, someone mentioned gum arabic or other mixtures > may have been painted on the back of the fabric. (?) Janet Arnold (in a lecture) told us that gum arabic was used on some of the slashings, but it wasn't universal. I could see no evidence of it in the slashed textiles I examined at the V&A. Also, I have several garments of my own on which I have tried ornamental slashing and pinking. I've not found it necessary to use anything on them. In fact, you need to deliberately pick at the fabric to loosen it enough so that the slashings show up enough. In one of the exhibits in the Costume area of the V&A I did see a garment with slashings which looked as if it did have something at the edge. (Of course, I couldn't get close enough to see it from the back side. It was in a large glassed in display with several dressed mannikins.) The slashings on it were longer than others I did get to see closer up. In Janet Arnold's PoF 1560-1620 there is a very similar one which also appears to have something at the very edge. It appears to me that there are both treated and untreated slashing/pinkings, perhaps depending on the length of the slash, fabric used or angle (bias vs straight of grain) of the slash. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 10:45:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01121 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:45:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24903; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:00:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA19988 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:58:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19981 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:58:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.238 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 08:56:48 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Stenciling vs. Block Printing Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:57:54 -0400 Message-ID: <000101befd38$d37af840$ee0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Can't answer the question directly, but the Datini papers show that painting on fabric was common for clothing and wall hangings in latter 14th Century Italy. Gold painted on velvet and many colors on linen, at the very least, are mentioned. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Carol J. Bell Cannon > Sent: Sunday, September 12, 1999 3:24 AM > To: Recipient list suppressed > Subject: H-COST: Stencilling vs. Block Printing > > > > -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > Does anyone know when each technique became available > to/used in the > attire of the nobility in Europe and the Middle East? Thank > you. Carol > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 10:50:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01127 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:50:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25381; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20455 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:02:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20443 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:02:47 -0600 (MDT) From: trekona@erols.com Received: from erols.com (207-172-131-132.s132.tnt4.col.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.131.132]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA06327 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:07:18 -0400 (EDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re-pinking Date: Sun, 12 Sep 99 16:03:22 GMT Message-ID: X-Mailer: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00] Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: trekona@erols.com > -Poster: aleed > > Pinking Tools? > > Where? > > I'd love to find some of these. Mary Denise Smith often sells them - her husband makes them in different sizes and styles. She the editor of _Costume & Drsssmaker Magazine_. -Judy Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 11:02:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01138 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:02:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26352; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:17:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21641 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:14:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21633 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:14:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990912161406.ZCHH22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:14:06 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:17:28 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Strapt' shirts, c. 1778 From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990912161406.ZCHH22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" In the research I did on shirts for *The Shirt Book* I did not run across any references of that type. Unless you find someone with a better answer I would suggest that you look at a very simple answer - *strapt* is after all a form of *strapped* and it might well mean that they were *strapped together in a bundle*. You might go back to your text and see if that does not fit. Should you find another answer, I - for one - would be VERY interested in it. Thanks ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) >To: h-costume-digest@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: 'Strapt' shirts, c. 1778 >Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999, 9:07 PM > > >-Poster: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) > >Can someone help me untangle this one? On a list of English trading goods >sent to the Hudson's Bay Company's Cumberland House post in 1777 (Rich >1:362-363), I found the following items of clothing: >"Shirts white strapt/Shirts check strapt" >For the same post in 1778, there are "Shirts cotton striped/Shirts white >Strapt/Shirts check Plain" >In both lists, the "white strapt" shirts are the most common. I haven't a >clue what they are, though. I've seen shirts and other items of clothing on >many inventory lists for the 1774-1821 period and most of them make sense, >but this has me stumped. The editor of another journal of an HBC post c. >1790 interpreted "Shirts SS" as "shoulder strap" shirts, which I'd never >heard of. (I figured it probably meant swanskin shirts--which I'd seen >elsewhere--until now.) >Any suggestions are welcome. > >Your obliged and obedient servant, >Angela Gottfred > > >agottfre@telusplanet.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 11:07:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01142 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:07:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26812; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:22:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA22463 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:20:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22458 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 10:20:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990912162022.ZDAR22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]>; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:20:22 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 09:23:43 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Strapt' shirts, c. 1778 p.s. From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com CC: fred Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990912162022.ZDAR22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" Another thought is that since these are Canadian in destination I would suggest that you ask Gail Cariou at Parks Canada if she can shed any light on the subject.... this is one of her major areas of expertise. Gail_Cariou@pch.gc.ca ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) >To: h-costume-digest@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: 'Strapt' shirts, c. 1778 >Date: Sat, Sep 11, 1999, 9:07 PM > > >-Poster: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) > >Can someone help me untangle this one? On a list of English trading goods >sent to the Hudson's Bay Company's Cumberland House post in 1777 (Rich >1:362-363), I found the following items of clothing: >"Shirts white strapt/Shirts check strapt" >For the same post in 1778, there are "Shirts cotton striped/Shirts white >Strapt/Shirts check Plain" >In both lists, the "white strapt" shirts are the most common. I haven't a >clue what they are, though. I've seen shirts and other items of clothing on >many inventory lists for the 1774-1821 period and most of them make sense, >but this has me stumped. The editor of another journal of an HBC post c. >1790 interpreted "Shirts SS" as "shoulder strap" shirts, which I'd never >heard of. (I figured it probably meant swanskin shirts--which I'd seen >elsewhere--until now.) >Any suggestions are welcome. > >Your obliged and obedient servant, >Angela Gottfred > > >agottfre@telusplanet.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 12:14:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01668 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:14:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01833; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:30:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29742 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:28:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29733 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:28:00 -0600 (MDT) From: trekona@erols.com Received: from erols.com (207-172-130-176.s176.tnt3.col.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.130.176]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id NAA19139 for < h-costume@indra.com>; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:27:58 -0400 (EDT) To: h-costume@indra.com (h-costume) Subject: H-COST: reed supply Date: Sun, 12 Sep 99 17:28:35 GMT Message-ID: X-Mailer: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00] Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: trekona@erols.com For anyone who is looking for basket reed to try in corsets (or anything else), and lives in an unfortunate area like mine where Michael's doesn't carry reed (neither do Joannes, Craft Plus or Total Crafts), you might want to check out Gratiot Lake Basketry. I've gotten supplies and basket books from them, they are very nice and fairly quick - maybe a couple weeks. It's roughly $7 or less for a 1pound coil Their url is http://www.weavenet.com/gratiot.html and can also be reached at Gratiot Lake Basketry Star Route 1, Box 16 Mohawk, MI 49950 (906)337-5116 as well as glbasketry@worldnet.att.net. They sell round, half-round, and flat and flat-oval reed (as well as lots of other basket stuff!) in all different sizes. -Judy Mitchell no connection, just a happy basket case.. uh, customer. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 12:31:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01709 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:31:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02870; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:47:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01626 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:45:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01613 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:45:30 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6UAHa06249 (3980) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:44:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:44:46 EDT Subject: H-COST: zoot suit pattern To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com "Kels" mentioned looking for the Simplicity zoot suit pattern; I've gone to check it out and don't think much of it. The jacket isn't right, except that it's long, and it might look okay for a stage costume but I don't think it would pass muster for real wear. A man's jacket really has to be tailored, I guess. The pants looked okay but not great -- better than anything else, though. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 12:49:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01730 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:49:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04078; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:06:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA03847 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:03:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03839 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:03:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11QDye-0000Ol-0B for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:03:49 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:47:11 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Boring clothes? In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie I definitely wear boring clothes in modern life. I recently discovered that almost all my skirts for work are either from charity shops or home made. There are a few reasons for this - - I rarely find anything "fashionable" that I like on me, so I tend to stick to "classic", - my body doesn't fit the shape of a lot of shop-bought skirts and trousers, and while I often think I would like to make myself something new, I have too many half-finished period things on my list to start anything modern, - I spend all my money on period stuff and going to events. Everyday clothes just aren't a priority for my budget. And - like you I think - whenever I walk into a shop, the thing that really catches my eye is the most expensive thing there! I have a taste for quality! Jean In message , KATHARINE WHISLER writes > >-Poster: KATHARINE WHISLER > >Here's a question for you all: A few weeks back when my boyfriend >accompanied me to my favorite clothing store, Brooks Brothers, he >remarked that he found it strange that someone as interested in the >history of fashion as I am would always wear rather boring clothes. >Thinking about it, he's right, I do tend to choose very basic clothes that >I can wear for years-- but this is because I'd rather buy something of >better quality that will last a while than some cheap fashionable thing >that is poorly made and will wear out in short order. I suppose the >fashionable clothes that would interest me are just plain too expensive >(in time or money). I did see a lovely Chanel jacket the other day and >it wasn't boring at all. Of course, it was also nearly $2000. > >So, here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday >life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a >fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? > >--Katharine Whisler > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 12:53:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01736 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:53:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04347; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:09:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04224 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:07:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04217 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:07:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gia-g (dialup346.serv.net [207.207.70.239]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA02295 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:07:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <007a01befd49$bd6e1260$ef46cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Handsewing question Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:04:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Hi! I have the same problem. When I sew by machine, I tend to go really really fast and then have to spend time using my seam ripper...I've been doing alot more sewing by hand and actually *love* it! Less time with the seam ripper, since I actually take the time to check and see what I'm sewing. I didn't think I would like this hand sewing, so at first I was very hesitant to try. The best part of hand sewing is getting to sew and be with my family at the same time. And while sewing by hand is obviously going to take longer, it means getting to spend *more* time with them. My family *loves this*, I've actually got to snuggle more with my 4 yr old and had some great discussions with my 15 yr old. Another thing I've discovered, the hand of the material and whether the seam is 'load bearing' should influence your choice of stitch. For example, working with velvet and silks recently, I've learned to always baste the materials and that using a 'stab' backstitch on velvet is effective in controlling the 'shifting' that velvet tends to do. Doing a very small running stitch produces a nice seam on silk (a slippery devil) and since you're not handling the material much, controls the slipage on those kinds of materials. But, if either fabric is on a 'load bearing' (borrowing from a housing construction term) seam, always use a back stitch; 'stabbing' for velvets. Anyway, just my observations on handsewing two kinds of luxery fabrics; I'm sure others will have more to add to this.. Gia >That's how I do my hand sewing. I prefer it to machine sewing. I >just seem to have a lead foot with the machine. It sounds silly but I >don't have the patience for the machine but I do for working with my >hands. It's more relaxing for me. > >Kassandra NickKraken >JUST CALL ME MISTRESS BUNNY _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 13:16:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01760 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:16:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06256; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:32:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06600 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:29:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06594 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:29:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-252-93.s347.tnt1.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.252.93]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA03885 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001c01befd4e$26c3dfc0$5dfc7ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:39:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > In a message dated 9/11/1999 12:37:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > MzScahlett@aol.com writes: > > << So, here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday > life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a > fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? > >> > I'm a hairdresser and tend to look like one. I make all my own clothes and they tend to be all black and mostly suits. My casual wear is mostly black, but in whatever trendy style is current. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 13:39:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01775 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:39:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08443; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:55:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09216 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:52:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com (imo-d08.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09206 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:52:32 -0600 (MDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6MYI0tFarf (4354) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:51:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <43b5f621.250d504d@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:51:57 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: zoot suit pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 9/12/99 11:46:32 AM Mountain Daylight Time, Gaelscot@aol.com writes: << "Kels" mentioned looking for the Simplicity zoot suit pattern; I've gone to check it out and don't think much of it. The jacket isn't right, except that it's long, and it might look okay for a stage costume but I don't think it would pass muster for real wear. A man's jacket really has to be tailored, I guess. The pants looked okay but not great -- better than anything else, though. Gail Finke ______ >> I was the assistant designer of "Zoot Suit" when it premiered at the Mark Taper Forum in Los Angeles. All of the suits were constructed in the shop by professional tailors. I haven't seen the pattern but I can tell you that the waists have to be cut high to the middle of the rib cage at least with front pleats, very full through the legs and then quickly pegged at the bottom, then cuffed. The coat is very broad through the shoulders (big tailoring shoulder pads or even two) and the hem of the coat is fingertip length. The lapels are wide. There has to be pad stitching, canvas, roll tape, the works, and you need to make your own canvas fronts due to the length. I imaging you can alter the Simplicity pattern to do all of these things if you know how to tailor. Cheryl Odom _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 14:11:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01824 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:11:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11001; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:27:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12807 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:25:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12795 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:25:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.113 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:23:53 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Fulling Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:33:16 -0400 Message-ID: <000201befd55$c2cfd340$ee0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" There is a lengthy discussion of fulling here: http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/rialto/felting-msg.html. It was a process applied to wool as it came off the loom to compact the weave by shrinking, make it both more sturdy and more supple. It also resulted in a fabric which raveled less, so it was done long and hard on a garment to be punched, pinked, or dagged. Taken to its extreme, the process can produce felt. Felting is a similar process, usually involving loose unwoven wool. In 1108 there was already a fulling mill on the banks of the River Bisenzio in Italy at Prato, perhaps due to the natural occurrance of a geat quantity of "fullers earth" nearby. Fullers earth is a dark slimy soil used in the process and also used up to the present cenury for cleaning wool. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 14:19:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01838 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:19:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11866; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:35:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13746 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:33:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spdmgaab.compuserve.com (ds-img-2.compuserve.com [149.174.206.135]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13738 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:33:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.5) id PAA02879; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:32:21 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:31:59 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Costume UK To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Cc: "." Message-ID: <199909121532_MC2-8484-B7ED@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA13741 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson >Dear List , can anyone help . I have finally convinced my friend that = she should take a little bit more trouble with costume for some event = she visits to ehibit her basketmaking. She has thrown thi sback in my = lap. In time for the Robin Hood festival at the end of October I have to come = up with a suitable outfit for this and for other "generally mediaeval " = events; this is not re-enacting. Size 12 maroon (ish) I dont have time or space (or inclination ) to start getting all of the = costumemaking gear together ; So I am looking for somebody who can supply this in time; If pos in easy = travelling distance ; She in Castle Donington Mr in Birmingham.- to = collect etc Any suggestions ? please/ Is it Maggie then ??? If so I'll do a simple T tunic for here if she wants to swap reeds , rushes & so on, I'm only a few miles away too Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 14:39:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02480 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:39:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14212; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:56:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16135 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:53:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16130 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:53:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xohgoynt ([62.252.37.209]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990912195413.EER26556.mta1-svc@xohgoynt> for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:54:13 +0100 Message-ID: <056501befd57$19dabbe0$d125fc3e@xohgoynt> From: "emma smith" To: Subject: H-COST: Castle Donington / Birmingham costume request Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:36:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "emma smith" Hi Sorry I deleted the message before saving it - duh! Anyway, if you're still looking for someone to make stuff in time for Robin Hood at end of October, contact me & we'll discuss. I live in Stratford Emma black.smith@virgin.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 14:53:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02500 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:53:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15626; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:09:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17845 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:07:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17838 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:07:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07549 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:07:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-130.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.130]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08269 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <016b01befd5b$71908320$5b01fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing w/o a maid: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:55:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" The images I got when I read this made me giggle. Don't we yell at out kids for hanging on the doorknobs? ;) Michelle >-Poster: Margo Anderson > I put it on over my head and hook the loops over >the handle of my patio door, then slowly walk away, and the lace pulls tight >as I walk. Reach behind, unhook the loops, and tie them in a large bow and >tuck the hanging bits inside the lacing. > >Margo > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 14:54:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02504 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:54:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15621; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:09:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17844 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:07:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17829 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:07:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA07542 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-130.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.130]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA08257 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:07:36 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <016a01befd5b$709de5c0$5b01fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing w/o a maid: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:41:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" It might be easier to put it on with the laces in front, rather than trying to get yourself into it after it is laced. That would be like climbing through a coat hanger. You have to have long laces for this method to. Put it on backwards, lace it up bottom to top and turn it around yourself to the back. Pull the laces from above your head. I think this is an instance where you have to experiment until you find what works for you. Michelle >Make your lace really, really long. Loosely lace the corset while not >wearing it, slide it on over your head and then start pulling on the >laces until you have it as tight as you wish. This does leave a lot of >extra lace when you have it done up so I tie big loopy bows and tuck >inside as needed. > >Alexandria > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 14:59:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02521 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:59:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16219; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:15:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18399 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:12:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18392 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:12:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.126]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA25574 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:12:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <019001befd5a$5ae69f20$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Dress forms Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:08:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" >-Poster: rima@anet.net wrote: >OK, so who knows of a terrific dress form that 's out there, that's easily >adjustable between two women's sizes - my friend and I wanna share, but >she's 4 inches taller and thinner! > >Am I dreaming??? I am thinking of getting the uniquely you dress form as well. But from Greenberg & Hammer, who lists them in their catalog for about $200 instead of $250, except I'm guessing the $250 is canadian, which is probably about the same in US currency..... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:07:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02565 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:07:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17065; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:23:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19336 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:21:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19330 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:21:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p3.directcon.net [206.170.184.52]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA11298 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909122019.NAA11298@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Dress forms Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >I am thinking of getting the uniquely you dress form as well. But from >Greenberg & Hammer, who lists them in their catalog for about $200 instead >of $250, The last time I noticed, Jo Anne's fabrics carried them, by special order. BUT even special orders are included in the 40 or 50 per cent off everything in the store sales they have several times a year. Get on their mailing list the next time you're there, keep watching the sales, and you can get one for around $100. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 15:12:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02571 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:12:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17392; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:28:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19928 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:26:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.wireweb.net (mail.wireweb.net [216.3.229.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19922 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:26:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by mail.wireweb.net from localhost (router,SLMail V3.2); Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:12:49 -0500 Received: by mail.wireweb.net from dragonlair (216.3.231.77::mail daemon; unverified,SLMail V3.2); Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:12:48 -0500 Message-ID: <37DC0A93.1FAE@wireweb.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:18:27 -0500 From: "Alexandria Doyle" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing w/o a maid: References: <016a01befd5b$709de5c0$5b01fea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SLUIDL: 0C51E5C4-681811D3-BB370040-33537EE5 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Alexandria Doyle" Michelle wrote: > > -Poster: "Michelle" > > It might be easier to put it on with the laces in front, rather than > trying to get yourself into it after it is laced. That would be like > climbing through a coat hanger. You have to have long laces for this method > to. Put it on backwards, lace it up bottom to top and turn it around > yourself to the back. Pull the laces from above your head. > I think this is an instance where you have to experiment until you find > what works for you. Actually, doing it that way would be just as difficult for me, you see, I have a chest that gets in my way of seeing my waist line unless physically lifted out of the way. Much easier to slip it on then lace in the back for me! Alexandria _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 16:08:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02647 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:08:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22337; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:24:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26132 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:21:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26123 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:21:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.133] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11QH4C-0005cV-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:21:45 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:19:58 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: zoot suit pattern In-Reply-To: <43b5f621.250d504d@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 02:51 PM 09/12/1999 -0400, you wrote:>-Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com >In a message dated 9/12/99 11:46:32 AM Mountain Daylight Time, Gaelscot@aol.com writes: > "Kels" mentioned looking for the Simplicity zoot suit pattern; ...... > ______ >> >I was the assistant designer of "Zoot Suit" when it premiered at the Mark >Taper Forum in Los Angeles. All of the suits were constructed in the shop by >professional tailors. I haven't seen the pattern...... I imagine you can alter the >Simplicity pattern to do all of these things if you know how to tailor. Cheryl Odom But the problem for me, Cheryl, and I suspect for a lot of others who buy patterns is--we don't yet know how to tailor. So, when the big pattern-makers come out with a pattern that is going to need all of these alterations in order to make it look right, and I sew it, after fitting it as best I know how, and doing everything the instructions say to, and it still doesn't look right--it is very frustrating. When I have time and money, I will take classes, perhaps, but right now, I don't. I wish the pattern companies would take a little more thought for people like me, I guess. Thanks for listening to me rant...I'll go skulk now. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 16:13:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02653 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:13:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23071; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:29:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26873 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:26:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26859 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:26:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (light87.lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.87]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA21050 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:17:23 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990912142828.007a9c50@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:28:28 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity Italian Ren Pattern In-Reply-To: References: <37DA1246.E54DEB2D@worldnet.att.net> <19990910225205.66050.qmail@hotmail.com> <3.0.5.32.19990910214711.007a3100@antir.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris At 02:06 AM 11/09/99 -0700, you wrote: >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" >At 01:26 AM 09/11/1999, Carolyn Richardson wrote: >>Kris wrote: oh! oh! I have LOTS of navy.. AND cranberry.. in the same >fabric.. >>> *plotting a new scheme* Maybe I'll do THAT for my It.Ren, and use the light >>> one for.. something else down the road.. >> Either would be good. Green too (everyone break into a round >of "Greensleeves" ;-) >which to choose. I'm getting excited about doing my first Italian Ren >outfit, too, and will attempt more authenticity than I ever have before. I >decided on side lacings, too, since, alas, I have no 'tiring maid, nor >beloved who might aid me to lace otherwise. -- Gra/inne I thought about doing it more authentic, but then I discovered that I lost/used/gave away a great dea of my navy fabric. 3 metres of 45" isn't enough.. *sigh* So... yesterday I was in a fabric store & discovered gorgeous silk.. at $35/m... Something I want, but cannot afford. Then.. today, I discovered some poly suiting that drapes and feels quite similar to the silk.. in the clearance section. So I bought it all! It's mottled black and burgundy, so I'm going to trim it in black and gold and pretend that there was a great accident in the Laundry, and my rich cousin gave the gown to me.. *grin* It's a plausible story :] I also found some *bright* kelly green linen fabric.. in the clearance section.. I'm pondering what to make out of it. I think there's 3 metres of 60" fabric.. Any ideas? It's not my best color, so it has to be a style with lots of trim near my face :] Kris plotting yet another new scheme :] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 16:18:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02661 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:18:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24183; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:34:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA27591 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:32:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27581 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:32:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (light87.lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.87]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA21066 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990912143403.007ac320@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 14:34:03 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: boring clothes In-Reply-To: <199909111012.FAA19363@cdale3.midwest.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris At 05:02 AM 11/09/99 -0500, you wrote: > My biggest pet peeve is unmatched plaids! Current manufacturers seem >to be visually impaired concerning plaids. If the plaid in a garment is >unmatched, it's cheap, IMHO, regardless of what the price tag reads! >Meg oh! and stripes!! when the front & back pieces of a tshirt don't have the striped pattern matching on the side seams, it looks so awful! :] Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 16:24:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03273 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:24:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24981; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:40:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28223 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:37:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from edtnps04.telusplanet.net (edtnps04.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.104]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28216 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:37:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clgrtnt4-port-156.agt.net ([161.184.49.156]:1031 "HELO Freya") by smtp1.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <70859-19275>; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:37:33 -0600 X-Sender: agottfre@pop.telusplanet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Strapt' shirts, c. 1778 X-Mailer: Message-Id: <19990912213746Z70859-19275+35@smtp1.telusplanet.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:37:33 -0600 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) "R.L. Shep" wrote: >...I would suggest that you look at a very simple answer - *strapt* is after all a form of *strapped* and it might well mean that they were *strapped together in a bundle*. < Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm pretty confident that it's not the meaning, because of my experience with many other inventory lists for the HBC. It would be highly unusual for the method of packing to be given on an inventory list. The inventory for 1776 lists 10 "white strapt" shirts (and no other kind), the 1777 inventory gives 10 "white strapt" shirts and 6 "check strapt" shirts, and the 1778 inventory has 4 "cotton striped" shirts, 6 "white strapt" shirts, and 2 "check Plain" shirts. Thanks, too, for the contact information on Gail Cariou--I'll forward my question to her. Your obliged & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 16:49:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03370 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:49:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28275; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:04:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01499 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:02:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.vci.net (smtp.vci.net [207.162.160.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01491 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:02:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vci.net (pah-c1-250.vci.net [207.162.162.250] (may be forged)) by smtp.vci.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id RAA15005 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:02:35 -0500 Message-ID: <37DC23A9.C80E76A6@vci.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:05:29 -0500 From: "schuck@vci.net" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr-FR,de,ru,es-AR,sv MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: wool question References: <199909122012.OAA18410@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "schuck@vci.net" Thanks for your help! I'll have to try the instructions and see what happens. jb <<>> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 16:50:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03381 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:50:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28402; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:06:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01685 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:03:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01680 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:03:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.161.142]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA18682 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:03:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37DC23D8.194B377A@mediaone.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:06:16 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Info on curator Mimi Vincent wanted Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas -------- Original Message -------- Subject: re: your other list Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 12:45:01 -0400 From: Peter Zavon To: Janice Dallas On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 you said to Savoynet, in part Hi!, A friend is trying to locate someone who was active in historic costume. He hopes we may know of her whereabouts. Janice Dallas JaniceDals@mediaone.net ------------------ >One of the other lists that I'm on, Historic Costume (630 members)... Interesting. By chance, do you know if there is a person on that list named Margaret (Mimi) Vincent? She was active in the BU Savoyards in the early 1970's but when we had our recent reunion, she was among the missing. Her focus was theatrical costuming and, when last I saw her (in the early 80's) she was a curator at the Georgetown Costume Museum in Philadelphia. We are a bit concerned because someone got the impression she had died. Peter Zavon Penfield, NY PZAVON@Compuserve.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 17:32:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03474 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:32:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02324; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:47:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA06763 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:45:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06747 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:45:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.83.139] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id ABF715F80068; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:40:55 -0400 Message-ID: <003201befd70$6f5ec980$8b53ccd1@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: <007a01befd49$bd6e1260$ef46cfcf@gia-g> Subject: Re: H-COST: Handsewing question Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:44:54 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" Had to add my story to the list of those who prefer handsewing. Until very recently I used to sew everything by hand because I was flat out terrified of sewing machines. As a girl during WWII my mother worked in a factory, sewing uniform pants for the troops. When I was growing up she told me the most gory stories about how she would try to sew so fast she'd sew straight through her finger, pause, take her little pair of pliers, pull the needle out of her finger, re-insert it into the machine and go back to work! It's a wonder I ever managed to pick up a needle of any sort! Kerrie, the hopelessly traumatised. ;-D _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 17:47:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03521 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:47:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03624; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:02:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08203 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:00:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08197 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:00:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (light76.lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.76]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA21446 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 15:50:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990912160157.007a6300@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 16:01:57 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: Re: H-COST: Dress forms In-Reply-To: <019001befd5a$5ae69f20$0200a8c0@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris >-Poster: "Megan McHugh" > >I am thinking of getting the uniquely you dress form as well. But from >Greenberg & Hammer, who lists them in their catalog for about $200 instead >of $250, except I'm guessing the $250 is canadian, which is probably about >the same in US currency..... It's less! The exchange rate in canada is $1.54 canadian to $1 US.... Or.. at least, that's what it is at my bank :] You could ask them how much they would charge for it in US$, and make your comparisons that way.. Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 17:51:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03531 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:51:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03998; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:07:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA08807 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:05:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA08794 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:05:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.63.84]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990912230413.JEC7469.mta2-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:04:13 +0100 Message-ID: <37DC9739.42F0@virgin.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:18:33 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1895 Lancers full levee dress References: <58350079.250c8a9c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn MissMela@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: MissMela@aol.com > > I am starting on a 17th or 16th (haven't found the right wool yet) 1895 > Lancer's Full Levee Dress uniform for my husband but am having trouble > locating the correct hat. I have pictures but do not know who sells them. Any > help list? Miss Mela > _______ You could try a company called Military Metalwork in the Uk. They make accoutrements, hats, buttons, badges leatherwork etc for repro uniforms and have currently got an order from the British MOD to make proper Lancer Caps as made in the 19th century . I use them all the time email andrew@militarymetal.free-online.co.ukleave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 18:08:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03573 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:08:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05720; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:24:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10915 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:22:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10903 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:22:14 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6MDKuzQo3_ (3952) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:21:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <485e3d43.250d8f7e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:21:34 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Info on curator Mimi Vincent wanted To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com I had lunch with Margaret Vincent at the Connecticut Historical Society in June. I met her in the late '80s at Museum of Early Southern Decorative Arts (MESDA) in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Please email me offline and I can give you her telephone number if you think this is the person you are looking for. Sally Costume Calendar Series http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 18:17:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03586 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:17:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06485; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:33:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA11987 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:31:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com (imo-d09.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11982 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:31:27 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6GDQay3TL_ (3952) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2420b28e.250d91ab@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:30:51 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com In a message dated 9/12/99 12:35:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time, HighlndLss@aol.com writes: << silk would not be something used for chemises, except for a very wealthy women. >> 18th c. chemises/shifts were generally linen. More wealthy women used a fine, bleached white linen while lower sorts wore osnaburg or a coarser unbleached linen. They saved the more expensive silk for outwear for all to see! Perhaps a fine neck handkerchief would work with your fabric? Sally Costume Calendar Series http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com (who spent "de-lurking day" at Library of Congress reading 1770 PA. Gazette. Thank you Penny for giving me the day off the computer! Want me to post a great merchant ad from John Smith of Philadelphia?) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 19:02:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04270 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:02:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10289; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:16:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17160 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:13:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17154 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:13:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA25300 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:13:18 -0700 (MST) Received: from 208-48-174-159.nas-2.scf.primenet.com(208.48.174.159), claiming to be "smadsenprimenet.com" via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAFUaqzX; Sun Sep 12 17:13:12 1999 Message-ID: <009001befd7c$ad95cbc0$8805dacf@com> From: "Lee" To: Subject: H-COST: Los Angeles Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:12:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Lee" << We're also looking forward to moving to Los Angeles later this year, because we'll be able to wear our favorite things more! Kels >> >Let us know when and exactly where you move. Then we can point out all the >good shopping places! Mela Sounds great! I really am looking forward to it...so much to do before we get there.... Found The Zoot suit pattern and the Shakespeare one today! My DH has wanted a Zoot for years. Kels _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 19:04:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04274 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:04:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10516; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:19:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA17512 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:16:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.compassnet.com.au ([203.26.180.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA17506 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:16:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from glenda-s-pc ([203.26.180.187]) by mail.compassnet.com.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA25420 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:20:24 +1000 Message-ID: <02ef01befd7d$151e5000$bbb41acb@glenda-s-pc> From: "Glenda Robinson" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 17th century Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:15:22 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Glenda Robinson" And another : English Civil War - London Trayned Bandes 1642. Pike and Musket Soc. of NSW (Australia) http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/8500/index.htm (our unofficial motto is that we take our reenactment seriously and ourselves not seriously at all) Glenda Robynsone (Wyf of the Wytchefynder General, who has his retracting pin on order!) -----Original Message----- From: Andrea Clef To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sunday, 12 September 1999 12:36 Subject: H-COST: Re: 17th century >> >To Jill of ECWS: I'm thrilled to hear that there *is* another 17th century >> >enthusiast on the list. It's always seemed as though I was the only one! >> >Kate Bunting >> >King's Lifeguard of Foote/ Captaine Generalls Musick, Sealed Knot >> -------- >> Jill and Kate, >> I do 17th c. (Cavalier Association, Columbus Ohio, US). We do ECW in the US >> and American colonial 17th century. This summer, went to the muster at >> Salem Village 1630. If I ever get to the UK again (last trip was 1984), >> I'd love to attend some ECW and other events! >> >> Marsha Hamilton >> >And here are even more ;-) !I belong to an English-/German cooperative >group that does French and English baroque in the 17th century. >We want to focus on civilian events but there is also a regiment being >built up, the >"Kirke`s Lambs". >We`re just starting out, if you`d like to know more about the group, >visit >http://www.kipar.org, there are some pics and information about 17th >century dress up as well. > >Many greetings, >Diana > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 19:09:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04278 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:09:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA11238; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:24:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18277 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:22:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18270 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:22:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26697 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:22:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from 208-48-174-159.nas-2.scf.primenet.com(208.48.174.159), claiming to be "smadsenprimenet.com" via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAA16aWg0; Sun Sep 12 17:21:57 1999 Message-ID: <009f01befd7d$e6888ac0$8805dacf@com> From: "Lee" To: Subject: H-COST: zoot suit pattern Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:21:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Lee" > >"Kels" mentioned looking for the Simplicity zoot suit pattern; I've gone to >check it out and don't think much of it. The jacket isn't right, except that >it's long, and it might look okay for a stage costume but I don't think it >would pass muster for real wear. A man's jacket really has to be tailored, I >guess. The pants looked okay but not great -- better than anything else, >though. > >Gail Finke I =do= intend to do modifications to it, but it's a lot faster for me than drafting it up from scratch! And if anyone else has seen any other patterns for them, let me know. This is the first one I've found. I frequently use a pattern that's got some lines I can use and go from there, with sketches of what I want it to end up as. Kels _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 19:20:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04292 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:20:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12259; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:34:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19379 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:32:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19372 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:32:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28235 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:32:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from 208-48-174-159.nas-2.scf.primenet.com(208.48.174.159), claiming to be "smadsenprimenet.com" via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAKjayg3; Sun Sep 12 17:32:00 1999 Message-ID: <00ae01befd7f$4dee7660$8805dacf@com> From: "Lee" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: zoot suit pattern Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 17:31:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Lee" >I was the assistant designer of "Zoot Suit" when it premiered at the Mark >Taper Forum in Los Angeles. All of the suits were constructed in the shop by >professional tailors. I haven't seen the pattern but I can tell you that the >waists have to be cut high to the middle of the rib cage at least with front >pleats, very full through the legs and then quickly pegged at the bottom, >then cuffed. The coat is very broad through the shoulders (big tailoring >shoulder pads or even two) and the hem of the coat is fingertip length. The >lapels are wide. There has to be pad stitching, canvas, roll tape, the >works, and you need to make your own canvas fronts due to the length. I >imaging you can alter the Simplicity pattern to do all of these things if you >know how to tailor. Cheryl Odom > _________________________________________________________________ Great, Cheryl! Do you have any pictures of the production? Or places to go for good reference? Those adjustments are all ones I'm planning, and I've been wanting to try my hand at traditional tailoring for awhile, and since this isn't something with a deadline, it should be fun. What sort of fabrics were these done in? I need to dig out some of my photos and set up a website... Kels _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 20:16:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04426 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:16:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17056; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:31:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25963 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:29:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25953 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:29:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA04382 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:29:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-133.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.133]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA19354 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:29:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003001befd88$684b56a0$b747fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: H-COST: traumatized stories Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:36:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" One of my friends accidentally sewed a teddy bear head to her thumb in 7th grade home-ec. She has been terrified of sewing machines ever since and just recently commented that she should get over it. She is about 35 years old now. These things happen. Michelle >-Poster: "Vince Lyons" > >Had to add my story to the list of those who prefer handsewing. >Until very recently I used to sew everything by hand because I was flat out >terrified of sewing machines. >As a girl during WWII my mother worked in a factory, sewing uniform pants >for the troops. When I was growing up she told me the most gory stories >about how she would try to sew so fast she'd sew straight through her >finger, pause, take her little pair of pliers, pull the needle out of her >finger, re-insert it into the machine and go back to work! >It's a wonder I ever managed to pick up a needle of any sort! > >Kerrie, the hopelessly traumatised. ;-D > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 20:16:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04430 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:16:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17063; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:31:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25925 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:29:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.suffolk.lib.ny.us ([199.173.91.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25919 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:29:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bchamber (dial-in191 [199.173.93.191]) by mx.suffolk.lib.ny.us (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA07451 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <010d01befd87$5da59ea0$bf5dadc7@bchamber> From: "Beth" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: Costumers dress/red hair Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:29:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_010A_01BEFD65.D4A59C20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Beth" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_010A_01BEFD65.D4A59C20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The red hair effect must rub off - even through virtual contact only. = Over the past year or two my hair has become more and more red. My once = blond - turned brown ( a very ash brown) hair now has a rather intense = coppery undertone. Dye does absolutely nothing! Red hair simply does not = go with wine, plum, or fuchsia - some of my favorite colors! So while = red hair is in I'm trying desperately to get rid of mine. :)=20 After reading posts from many of you who wear vintage items, vintage = inspired fashions, and colors or styles which are "out" of = fashion/season I have just one question - why do I never meet people = like you in my "real", as opposed to online, life??? All my friends and = coworkers are real off the rack at Macys type people. Not that dressing = like the masses is bad - I just imagine that it would be more fun with = someone egging me on while I egged them on. ------=_NextPart_000_010A_01BEFD65.D4A59C20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The red hair effect must rub off - even through = virtual=20 contact only. Over the past year or two my hair has become more and more = red. My=20 once blond - turned brown ( a very ash brown) hair now has a rather = intense=20 coppery undertone. Dye does absolutely nothing! Red hair simply does not = go with=20 wine, plum, or fuchsia - some of my favorite colors! So while red hair = is in I'm=20 trying desperately to get rid of mine. :)
 
After reading posts from many of you who wear = vintage items,=20 vintage inspired fashions, and colors or styles which are "out" of=20 fashion/season I have just one question - why do I never meet = people like=20 you in my "real", as opposed to online, life??? All my friends and = coworkers are=20 real off the rack at Macys type people. Not that dressing like the = masses is bad=20 - I just imagine that it would be more fun with someone egging me on = while I=20 egged them on.
------=_NextPart_000_010A_01BEFD65.D4A59C20-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 20:18:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04434 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:18:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17296; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:34:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA26285 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:31:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (tor-smtp2.netcom.ca [207.181.101.101]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26277 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:31:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (trt-on17-97.netcom.ca [207.181.84.225]) by tor-smtp2.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA13634 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009001befd87$8b695160$e154b5cf@default> From: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" To: References: <008b01befcb6$c408a1a0$3b56accf@e4c2n6> <000901befcb9$4f5b85e0$a353ccd1@ouppc> <00b701befcbc$7210afe0$3b56accf@e4c2n6> Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:30:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "David Stamper & Eve Harris" > > Whee! Fellow "fireys" (my brother's "pet" name for me, from the movie > > Labyrinth) ! I think several of the folks on this list have mentioned > > having red hair. I wonder if there's a link between follicle pigmentation > > and a passion for historical costume. My mother's hair was blond as a baby, red as a child, and then turned chestnut...I came out a blond who turned dull brown in puberty - straight to the dye bottle as a 15 year old with my mother's blessing. I've contemplated becoming a strawberry blond or adding lavender highlights several times, but always shied away. I'm still somewhat embryonic as a costumer. I'm spending all my time perfecting cut and seam finishing, and haven't yet got around to embellishment. In Real Life, I wear lots and lots of navy blue suits with increasingly esoteric jewellery. My fellow employees are becoming tolerant as they slowly learn that I am That Way. At home I wear long earthtone dresses that hide my avoirdupois, and blond hair down to my waist. I'm beginning to suspect that I am a closet hippie hypocrite. Too bourgeois to forgo making a living, militant towards parochial medicine and infuriated by a !@#$ government that only mandates 55% maternity pay. Eve Harris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 20:24:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04440 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:24:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA18070; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:40:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA26994 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:38:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA26980 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:38:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990913013806.OLUE16271.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:38:06 -0700 Message-ID: <37DC5521.10BB9A61@home.com> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:36:33 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Costumers dress/red hair References: <010d01befd87$5da59ea0$bf5dadc7@bchamber> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent > Beth wrote: > > The red hair effect must rub off - even through virtual contact only. > Over the past year or two my hair has become more and more red. My > once blond - turned brown ( a very ash brown) hair now has a rather > intense coppery undertone. Dye does absolutely nothing! Red hair > simply does not go with wine, plum, or fuchsia - some of my favorite > colors! So while red hair is in I'm trying desperately to get rid of > mine. :) I don't think there is any color I *don't* wear in some form or another! I definitely can wear wine, plum & fuchsia...must be my complexion. The weird thing in my family is that my husband is almost exactly one shade off from me in hair & skin color and our children are the same (all of us very, very fair w/auburn hair) while *both* our mothers have hair so brown it looks black with olive complexions. > After reading posts from many of you who wear vintage items, vintage > inspired fashions, and colors or styles which are "out" of > fashion/season I have just one question - why do I never meet people > like you in my "real", as opposed to online, life??? All my friends > and coworkers are real off the rack at Macys type people. Not that > dressing like the masses is bad - I just imagine that it would be more > fun with someone egging me on while I egged them on. Hmmmm...maybe you aren't hitting the right places after work? Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 20:37:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04460 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:37:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19409; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:53:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA28427 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:50:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28417 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 19:50:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([208.255.166.225]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990913015006.XTP29082@worldnet.att.net> for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:50:06 +0000 Message-ID: <37DC5882.BC9DB2BF@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 18:50:58 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson MissMela@aol.com wrote: >Oh, Penny, one week after I saw you last, I spiral permed all that long > hair of mine and it's still that way. No more straight hair. My mother says I > refuse to grow up! Miss Mela Yes, but it looks lovely that way. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 20:59:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05150 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:59:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21334; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:15:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01659 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:13:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from POP01 (mail.ex-pressnet.com [208.193.112.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01647 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:13:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from alt1 - 24.239.14.77 by ex-pressnet.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:07:07 -0400 From: "Allison Thurman" To: Subject: H-COST: re:what costumers wear/was boring clothes Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:12:50 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Allison Thurman" hmm.. interesting thread. at work i wear fairly conservative black/white/grey, usually pants with sweaters or jackets, sometimes skirts. NEVER heels. at home i usually wear cargo pants/t shirts (yes, not exciting i know but when im puttering around the house/playing with my cats its really best). i only get creative when i leave the house with current sort of ex-raver cyberpunk look - lots of black with silver jewelry, but comfortable and with platform sneakers. purple highlights to the hair will be added soon. allison p.s. to the talahassee person looking for the more fashionable clothes - isnt the web great? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 21:15:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05177 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:15:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22548; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:31:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA03425 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:28:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03411 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:28:45 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6OYVa00255 (4584) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:27:57 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Tied on sleeves for Elizabethan? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 9/11/99 11:09:55 PM !!!First Boot!!!, kristen.gee@linkpa.com writes: << Poster: "Kristen Gee" I think that my confusion about sleeves is mostly style-based. I've heard of 'french sleeves' and I've seen lots of different things in paintings of that time period, but there never seems to be one 'standard sleeve'. Is that because there were a lot of different styles? Or were sleeve styles 'trendy' and change frequently? That's my issue of confusion. I am going to the Pennsylvania RenFaire in Mt. Hope, PA. I am making the costume for a high school costume competition (I'm in high school) Kristen >> Kristen, In answer to your question (I am unlurking to answer this) Yes, tied in sleeves are VERY correct to use in an Elizabethan. As for the confusion on styles...well, I can certainly understand. Sleeves varied so much, not only from country to country, but from dress to dress. Sleeves were trendy indeed....that's one of the reasons they could be tied in. One can change the look of one's outfit by putting different sleeves on. There are some very general characteristics of nationalities adopting certain sleeve styles, like Spain and the numerous styles of hanging over-sleeves they adorned themselves with, but that wasn't something that was strictly "done" in Spain. There are so many portraits that have people mixing and matching componants of their dress, that you can put just about any style of sleeve with any type of dress ( I tought a class on this yesterday) Sleeves were limited only by the imagination and the abilities of the tailors of the time... Go for it!!!!! If you can get your hands on _Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd_, you will have a perfect reference as to the "styles" of sleeves. It is located in the Chapter titled "In Pursuit of Fashion." Here Ms. Arnold gives descriptions of what the different styles of dress looked like. Sleeves are almost always something that is mentioned as one of the defining componants of a type or style. As for a "French sleeve"...the French had a style of sleeve that had a very large padded roll at the shoulder (actually a part of the bodice) under which fitted, (Elizabeth of Valois by Alonso Sanchez Coello) semi-fitted (Armada portrait) sleeves were worn, or the sleeves of the chemise or partlet were shown (Unkown girl aged 21). In this case, the sleeves of the chemise or partlet were usually embroidered. hope this helps, Charles _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 21:31:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05195 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:31:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23938; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:47:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA05049 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:44:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05043 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:44:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6JMHa06600 (4584) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5ff61dd0.250dbeeb@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:43:55 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Boring clothes? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 9/11/99 6:42:06 AM !!!First Boot!!!, carrie@greateralchemy.net writes: << So, here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? --Katharine Whisler >> In everyday life, I tend to be rather trendy...I love to wear Jeans, but all of them (11 pairs) are either Guess or Tommy Hilfiger (latest season). On shirts, I try to buy what ever is mod and in, but I'm less picky on name brands. When I dress up, i usually do the Docker--knit polo type shirt thing, or a trendy sports coat over a casual-type shirt. I detest ties with a passion. (Under no circumstances do I ever sew for my mundane dress needs) Fabric content is not even something I think about, I mean I bought the mosy awesome black rayon (suede look) long sleeve shirt. I can't wash it, and it does not breathe.....but it was so darn cool!!!!!! I think in historical clothing my tastes mirror, if not out do, those of my mundane clothing. I like to dress like I'm in court (read on display) often, though I do have plenty of heat-comfort aware clothing.....(should have seen the Greecian at Pennsic, I was glad I was so far from home). Here, fabric content is definitely something I think about. Interesting topic, Chas _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:03:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05255 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:03:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27163; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:19:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA08759 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:16:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08748 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:16:18 -0600 (MDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ETY5vX34_ (3990) for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:15:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <76408aab.250dc668@aol.com> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:15:52 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: zoot suit pattern To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 9/12/99 3:23:38 PM Mountain Daylight Time, cjcannon@greymists.com writes: << But the problem for me, Cheryl, and I suspect for a lot of others who buy patterns is--we don't yet know how to tailor. >> I'm sorry. I'm new to this list and am not yet aware of all of the various levels of skills. I'm not a professional tailor but have done my share of tailoring for period pieces for the theatre. I would be happy to answer questions and help anyway I can. Cheryl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:28:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05274 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:28:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00560; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:44:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA12015 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:42:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12008 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:42:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.154] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11QN0U-0005wv-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:42:19 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:40:32 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: zoot suit pattern In-Reply-To: <76408aab.250dc668@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 11:15 PM 09/12/1999 -0400, you wrote: -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com >I'm sorry. I'm new to this list and am not yet aware of all of the various >levels of skills. I'm not a professional tailor but have done my share of >tailoring for period pieces for the theatre. I would be happy to answer >questions and help anyway I can. Cheryl Thank you very much. I appreciate and respect all of you who are so generous with your time, experience and skills. I'm learning something almost daily--in theory--and storing up things to apply/try with each new project. I just think occasionally that those who have the expertise in any arena need an occasional reminder that not everyone's at their level yet--and that includes me in my own specialties. :-) I certainly did not mean it to be only directed to you...although it was your post to which I replied. Again...thank you. I hope you'll enjoy the list...I surely do. -- Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 22:33:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05280 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:33:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01101; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:49:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA12611 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:46:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA12604 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:46:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow ([24.5.81.24]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990913034651.PBAP29344.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@shadow> for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 20:46:51 -0700 Message-ID: <37DC9DA6.60F4@home.com> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:45:58 -0700 From: Freya Organization: House Wolfholme X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Fasteners Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Freya A little late for delurking day, but here goes. We used to have an eyeleting machine and I'm looking for a replacement. It looked like an over-grown office stapler. It operated by placing the item to be eyeleted on the base and pulling down the lever. The little eyelet holder would then rotate and another eyelet would drop down into the track waiting for it's turn. I've been doing an increasing amount of grommeting but punching the holes with our rotery hole punch is too hard on my hands. Does anyone have a solution for either the hole punching or a source for an affordable eyeleting/grommeting machine. I hope that made sense. -- Freya Abair ach beag, is abair gu math e. Say but little, and say it well. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 23:02:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06139 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:02:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04404; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:17:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA16041 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:15:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16035 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:15:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-11.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.11]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA01510 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:15:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990910033132.00a0da00@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 03:31:32 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Slashing (was: Thursday, 9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day) In-Reply-To: <19990909230038.79179.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Of course, if you take a look at some of the German paintings, and you >see the slashes from shoulder to waist, I would say that they would have >*had* to line them in some way. Actually there is a portrait of a Spanish lady with *large* slashes in her doublet & sleeves (Spanish round sleeves) They all have an edge of different colour/fabric - it's hard to tell the copy I have is in B&W. So I would say it's an option, just not common. The picture, I believe, is in the "Costume of the Western World Series - The Dominace of Spain". Cheers, Danielle - the semi-lurker _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 23:32:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06206 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:32:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07000; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:48:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA19059 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:44:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19047 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:44:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990913044411.CWNJ22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:44:11 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:36:48 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: traumatized stories From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990913044411.CWNJ22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" When I was a kid during WWII my Dad had a factory making duffle bags and canvas water tanks for the troops in North. Africa. We had BIG sewing machines and they had BIG needles - remember that not only were they industrial but I was very young. I ran one of those for awhile. Scared s-less. Never again.. I have seen people who got in the way of one of those and had a needle go through their finger. I know it is irrationale when you think about present day home sewing machines but there is no way I will touch one. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: "Michelle" >To: >Subject: H-COST: traumatized stories >Date: Sun, Sep 12, 1999, 6:36 PM > > >-Poster: "Michelle" > > > >One of my friends accidentally sewed a teddy bear head to her thumb in 7th >grade home-ec. She has been terrified of sewing machines ever since and >just recently commented that she should get over it. She is about 35 years >old now. These things happen. > Michelle >>-Poster: "Vince Lyons" >> >>Had to add my story to the list of those who prefer handsewing. >>Until very recently I used to sew everything by hand because I was flat out >>terrified of sewing machines. >>As a girl during WWII my mother worked in a factory, sewing uniform pants >>for the troops. When I was growing up she told me the most gory stories >>about how she would try to sew so fast she'd sew straight through her >>finger, pause, take her little pair of pliers, pull the needle out of her >>finger, re-insert it into the machine and go back to work! >>It's a wonder I ever managed to pick up a needle of any sort! >> >>Kerrie, the hopelessly traumatised. ;-D >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 23:40:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06222 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:40:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07553; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:56:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA19881 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:52:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bunyip.flash.net (bunyip.flash.net [209.30.6.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19875 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:52:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p208.amax10.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.66.208]) by bunyip.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20148 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:52:09 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37DC80F7.16B4C5AB@flash.net> Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:43:35 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Subject: H-COST: Elizabethan - military buttons Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette I've once again come across the assertion that Elizabeth issued a royal command that military uniforms have a line of buttons on the sleeves to prevent soldiers from wiping their noses on their sleeves. I've seen this statement several times, but it's never been footnoted to track back to the original. Fact or folklore? If fact, where is it documented? Thanks, --Charlene -- If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 23:45:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06227 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:45:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08029; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:02:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA20488 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:58:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20481 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:58:04 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id ELDDCY2X; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:57:49 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:40:14 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes/RED HAIR Message-ID: <19990912.235154.-435891.1.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-7 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com Well although my parents thought that I would be a red-head, I proved my contrary nature a became a deep ash blonde instead. I 'assist' the brightness of my hair with some lighter blonde color. But I haven't changed the essential color of my hair, I'm just too darn pale to go with any other shade (pale grey-blue eyes and translucent white skin- yes, I'm Northern European, why do you ask?) Karen (SPF 3000 is my friend) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 23:45:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06231 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:45:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08048; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:02:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA20507 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:58:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20500 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:58:11 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id ELDDCYZQ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:57:49 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:26:35 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Tied on sleeves for Elizabethan? Message-ID: <19990912.235154.-435891.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 11-15,17-33 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com I can't remember where I heard the term right now, late after a long weekend, but the style is quite common int he early part of Elizabeth's reign, before the '80's. It is the short sleeve that comes down to mid-upper arm with a tight 'cuff' and a very full top. It then frequently has a corrdinating or contasting tight under sleeve which goes down to the wrist. you can frequently see this on surcoats. hang on a sec and I'll try to dig up some specific examples........"A Visual History of Costume" by Jane Ashelford pg 66 Unknown lady, 1560, pg. 72 Elizabet Roydon, Lady Golding 1563, pg. 80 Four ladies 1a: London Citizen's Wife 1570. If I was more awake I would dig further, but it just isn't gonna happen tonight. If you would like more examples, let me know and I'll dig them up tomorrow. Karen zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 16:54:05 -0700 (PDT) Margo Anderson writes: > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > > >The early Elizabethan 'mahoitered' style of sleeve > > I've never heard this term. What is a mahoitered sleeve? > > margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 23:50:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06237 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:50:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08599; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:06:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA21010 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:02:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from marlo.eagle.ca (marlo.eagle.ca [206.186.242.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21003 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:02:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialin4.eagle.ca (dialin4.eagle.ca [206.186.242.251]) by marlo.eagle.ca (8.9.2/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA00310 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909130501.BAA00310@marlo.eagle.ca> X-Sender: mercury@eagle.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gothic Splendour Subject: H-COST: First Elizabethan Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gothic Splendour Hello all- I'm putting on a fashion show at a local theatre with a "fashions through the last millenium" theme. I have a broad range of periods represented but would like to add an Elizabethan. This is one period I've never really studied much (in terms of costume construction)so I bought the much touted Simplicity pattern & it seems straight forward enough. My question is related to fabric choice & colour co-ordination. I'm thinking of a combination of crimson & dark aubergine or plum with silver accents. I'd like this dress to be fairly authentic, I'm not entering it in any competitions but I don't like doing all of the work to have something that is totally off target. I figure there are several main pieces to think about: overskirt, underskirt, bodice, sleeves. Was there any sort of rule, sleeves match underskirt or bodice matches underskirt...? Would a lady have worn a crimson dress? I'll be showing it with garnet/pearl jewellery so I figured I'd add pearls to the dress somewhere. Would these colours look strange with cream added in somewhere - maybe the sleeves? I read that satin is a good choice for the overskirt, would that be ok with a brocade underskirt? I'm looking forward to any ideas that you can offer. Thanks Elizabeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 12 23:59:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06246 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:59:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09225; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:15:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA21798 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:09:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21793 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:09:29 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6EFB0I6AdA (4584) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:08:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:08:52 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Tied on sleeves for Elizabethan? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 9/13/99 5:02:06 AM !!!First Boot!!!, seamstrix@juno.com writes: << I can't remember where I heard the term right now, late after a long weekend, but the style is quite common int he early part of Elizabeth's reign, before the '80's. It is the short sleeve that comes down to mid-upper arm with a tight 'cuff' and a very full top. It then frequently has a corrdinating or contasting tight under sleeve which goes down to the wrist. you can frequently see this on surcoats. hang on a sec and I'll try to dig up some specific examples >> Sounds very much like what Janet Arnold points out as Flemish. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 00:20:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06262 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:20:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA12079; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:36:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA24305 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:34:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24300 for ; Sun, 12 Sep 1999 23:34:24 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6IZNa16296 (4584) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:33:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:33:38 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: First Elizabethan To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 9/13/99 5:06:08 AM !!!First Boot!!!, mercury@eagle.ca writes: << I'm thinking of a combination of crimson & dark aubergine or plum with silver accents. I'd like this dress to be fairly authentic, I'm not entering it in any competitions but I don't like doing all of the work to have something that is totally off target. I figure there are several main pieces to think about: overskirt, underskirt, bodice, sleeves. Was there any sort of rule, sleeves match underskirt or bodice matches underskirt...?<< If you are doing the Simplicty Patern 8881 Elizabethan, here's what I would suggest. It was very common that the bodice matched the overskirt...but that is nothing near a "rule." Sometimes the sleeves could match the underskirt, so the idea of doing so is feasible. There are portraits of Elizabeth with her sleeves matching her underskirt. (The Armada) Another idea would be to make the sleeves, bodice, and overskirt match. I've seen more examples of this. >>Would a lady have worn a crimson dress? I'll be showing it with garnet/pearl jewellery so I figured I'd add pearls to the dress somewhere. Would these colours look strange with cream added in somewhere - maybe the sleeves? I read that satin is a good choice for the overskirt, would that be ok with a brocade underskirt?<< Crimson, I think, would be a lovely choice of colour. Yes, they did indeed wear that color too....acording to very basic Elizabethan Costuming book Crimson (or blood red as I have always equated it with) was fashionably known as "sangyn." Satin was a period fabric, but "our" satins tend to get hot and wrinkly. My initial gut reaction was to do the opposite: I would put the brocade on the outside and the satin on the inside as the underskirt...decorated with trim and beading of course!!! That however is just my personal opinion....and opinions are like belly buttons, we've all got one. >>I'm looking forward to any ideas that you can offer. Thanks Elizabeth >> I wish you the best of luck on this. Elizabethan costuming is much fun. Charles _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 00:49:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06287 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:49:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13991; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:03:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA26892 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:01:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (alpha.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.21.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA26871 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:00:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from antiquity.pbc.adelphia.net (surf12-151-232.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.151.232]) by alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id CAA06597 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 02:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008201befdad$38ebce60$e8973018@pbc.adelphia.net> From: "Erica Pence" To: References: <19990912.235154.-435891.1.seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Costumer's boring clothes and red hair Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 02:00:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007F_01BEFD8B.B0D6C820" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Erica Pence" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BEFD8B.B0D6C820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All this talk of clothes has made me take a long look at my wardrobe. = Pathetic comes to mind...my clothes, that is. I dress boring. I live = in South Florida, casual capitol of the country, or so I tell myself. = Everything is casual here...work, nightlife, formal occasions. It's = horrible. I used to dress to the nine, always looking polished and = perfect with the latest trends strategically mixed with classics. I = wore rich autumn colors and lovely navies and reds. Sure I was = overdressed compared to most people, but I felt good about it. Now my = wardrobe consists of jeans, shorts, knit tops and an occasional = sundress. =20 Well, this discussion has inspired me to change this. Although I rarely = sew for myself (always too busy with other people's projects), I will = make an attempt to spend some time building a new, more exciting = wardrobe. I am actually starting to get excited about this idea. =20 As for red hair, mine is a natural golden blonde. Perfectly straight = and thick. I died it red a few months ago, but have decided to go back = to being a blonde. I, too, am very pale with slate blue eyes, but feel = I pulled off the red fairly well. I am just bored and would like to be = blonde again. Incidentally, I rarely burn, even with tan magnifier at = the beach. Weird, I know. As for historical flair, I think that I would like to add a touch of it = to my new wardrobe. Not sure how yet, but it certainly is a fresh idea = I've never even thought about. =20 Thanks to the poster who started this discussion. I think I am ready = for a wardrobe change. Erica Pence Robes of Antiquity www.robesofantiquity.com Online store coming soon! ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BEFD8B.B0D6C820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
All this talk of clothes has made me take a long look at my = wardrobe. =20 Pathetic comes to mind...my clothes, that is.  I dress = boring.  I live=20 in South Florida, casual capitol of the country, or so I tell = myself. =20 Everything is casual here...work, nightlife, formal occasions.  = It's=20 horrible.  I used to dress to the nine, always looking polished and = perfect=20 with the latest trends strategically mixed with classics.  I wore = rich=20 autumn colors and lovely navies and reds.  Sure I was overdressed = compared=20 to most people, but I felt good about it.  Now my wardrobe consists = of=20 jeans, shorts, knit tops and an occasional sundress.  
 
Well, this discussion has inspired me to change=20 this.  Although I rarely sew for myself (always too busy with = other=20 people's projects), I will make an attempt to spend some time building a = new,=20 more exciting wardrobe.  I am actually starting to get excited = about this=20 idea. 
 
As for red hair, mine is a natural golden blonde.  Perfectly = straight=20 and thick.  I died it red a few months ago, but have decided to go = back to=20 being a blonde.  I, too, am very pale with slate blue eyes, but = feel I=20 pulled off the red fairly well.  I am just bored and would like to = be=20 blonde again.  Incidentally, I rarely burn, even with tan magnifier = at the=20 beach.  Weird, I know.
 
As for historical flair, I think that I would like to add a touch = of it to=20 my new wardrobe.  Not sure how yet, but it certainly is a fresh = idea I've=20 never even thought about. 
 
Thanks to the poster who started this discussion.  I think I = am ready=20 for a wardrobe change.
 
Erica Pence
Robes of Antiquity
www.robesofantiquity.com
= Online=20 store coming soon!
------=_NextPart_000_007F_01BEFD8B.B0D6C820-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 01:42:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06316 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:42:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16588; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:58:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA01739 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:55:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from munich.ixos.de (HOST.31.95.ixos.de [149.235.31.95]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01727 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:55:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jacomo (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by munich.ixos.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04177 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:54:16 +0100 (WET DST) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990912211712.00b8a400@pop.gmx.de> X-Sender: pompadour@gmx.li@pop.gmx.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:24:53 +0200 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pompadour Subject: Re: H-COST: re-pinking In-Reply-To: References: <37D9E4D3.6240@virgin.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1057700==_.ALT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pompadour --=====================_1057700==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 02:49 AM 9/11/99 , you wrote: >these? Or, alternately, happen to have handy the recipes for gum >arabic/gum tragacanth? Carol i think i can tell you about arabicum. there's not much to it: it's just a white powder any good chemist's has in stock. you mix it with water until it's got the consistency you want; the only watch point is not to let lumps develop. it gives a wonderful, all-natural glue that dries as quickly as you like it, depending on how thick you make it. i've used it to glue drawings on a board for framing, and as contour liner for silk painting - wonderful for both. the drawback or andvantage (depending on what you use it for) is that it dissolves in water very easily. wash once and it's gone. salut, pompadour Yours, etc, Pompadour M.A. (Unseen University) AKA His Excellency, etc, the Minister of Silly Walks (Mrs) http://www.marquise.de webmaster@marquise.de --=====================_1057700==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 02:49 AM 9/11/99 , you wrote:
these?  Or, alternately, happen to have handy the recipes for gum
arabic/gum tragacanth?   Carol

i think i can tell you about arabicum. there's not much to it: it's just a white powder any good chemist's has in stock. you mix it with water until it's got the consistency you want; the only watch point is not to let lumps develop. it gives a wonderful, all-natural glue that dries as quickly as you like it, depending on how thick you make it. i've used it to glue drawings on a board for framing, and as contour liner for silk painting - wonderful for both. the drawback or andvantage (depending on what you use it for) is that it dissolves in water very easily. wash once and it's gone.

salut,
pompadour


Yours, etc, Pompadour M.A. (Unseen University) AKA
His Excellency, etc, the Minister of Silly Walks (Mrs)
http://www.marquise.de            webmaster@marquise.de --=====================_1057700==_.ALT-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 01:42:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06320 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:42:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16585; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:58:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA01740 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:55:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from munich.ixos.de (HOST.31.95.ixos.de [149.235.31.95]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01726 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:55:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jacomo (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by munich.ixos.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04184 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:54:18 +0100 (WET DST) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990912213945.00b627a0@pop.gmx.de> X-Sender: pompadour@gmx.li@pop.gmx.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:48:25 +0200 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pompadour Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing w/o a maid: In-Reply-To: <37DAAA76.6969@wireweb.net> References: <19990911190745.20500.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_1057811==_.ALT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pompadour --=====================_1057811==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 09:16 PM 9/11/99 , you wrote: > > This brings up a good question... I have a great > > corset that I would *love* to wear more often, but the > > only one around to help me lace it is my boyfriend who > > won't do it... any suggestions on how to lace it by > > yourself? my corsets are all 17th/18th century... one i've made to lace in front; for those that lace in back i've bought satin ribbon 15 ft long so that i can easily pull them over my head. however, there's a better method, and i could have thought of it earlier as that is similar how i put on my bras: i put it on backwards, the shoulder straps un-tied, and thread the laces through the holes with a large blunt needle. then i turn the corset round and pull the straps tight reaching behind me... well, i guess that latter part won't work in a couple year's time anymore... being laced in by someone else certainly achieves a closer fit most of the time. at least i know that front-lacing cosets existed in the 18th-20th century. salut, pompadour Yours, etc, Pompadour M.A. (Unseen University) AKA His Excellency, etc, the Minister of Silly Walks (Mrs) http://www.marquise.de webmaster@marquise.de --=====================_1057811==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 09:16 PM 9/11/99 , you wrote:

> This brings up a good question... I have a great
> corset that I would *love* to wear more often, but the
> only one around to help me lace it is my boyfriend who
> won't do it... any suggestions on how to lace it by
> yourself?

my corsets are all 17th/18th century... one i've made to lace in front; for those that lace in back i've bought satin ribbon 15 ft long so that i can easily pull them over my head. however, there's a better method, and i could have thought of it earlier as that is similar how i put on my bras: i put it on backwards, the shoulder straps un-tied, and thread the laces through the holes with a large blunt needle. then i turn the corset round and pull the straps tight reaching behind me... well, i guess that latter part won't work in a couple year's time anymore... being laced in by someone else certainly achieves a closer fit most of the time.
at least i know that front-lacing cosets existed in the 18th-20th century.

salut,
pompadour



Yours, etc, Pompadour M.A. (Unseen University) AKA
His Excellency, etc, the Minister of Silly Walks (Mrs)
http://www.marquise.de            webmaster@marquise.de --=====================_1057811==_.ALT-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 02:05:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10007 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 02:05:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA18860; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:22:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA03687 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:19:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03674 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:19:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.148] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11QQOl-0004ko-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:19:36 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 00:17:50 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: re-pinking In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990912211712.00b8a400@pop.gmx.de> References: <37D9E4D3.6240@virgin.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id BAA03678 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 09:24 PM 09/12/1999 +0200, you wrote: i think i can tell you about arabicum. ... ... the drawback or andvantage (depending on what you use it for) is that it dissolves in water very easily. wash once and it's gone. salut, pompadour Yours, etc, Pompadour M.A. (Unseen University) AKA His Excellency, etc, the Minister of Silly Walks (Mrs.) http://www.marquise.de webmaster@marquise.de Mme. de Pompadour, thank you so much for your clear and concise response. Your whole signature 'package' makes me think you would be well worth getting acquainted with. :-) I have been told that both gums are from tree saps and as such do not have recipes for preparation, beyond what you have written--which, I suppose, makes me a bit off a sap, for wondering, but I truly did not know and am glad I now do, so that I do not regret having asked. Again, my thanks. Carol, aka: Gráinne ingen Domnaill Ildánaig, in the SCA, Inc. [GiDI, not for nothing...] _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 03:40:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA03446 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 03:40:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA23140; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 02:56:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA10665 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 02:54:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA10658 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 02:54:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Mon Sep 13 01:53:42 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:53:42 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Expiredinmiddle: true X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: traumatized stories X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.36.160 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" On Sun, 12 Sep 1999 21:36:48 R.L. Shep wrote: > >-Poster: "R.L. Shep" We had BIG sewing >machines and they had BIG needles - remember that not only were they >industrial but I was very young. I ran one of those for awhile. Scared >s-less. Never again.. My father used to make historic flags for movies when he was in his mid-20's living in LA. So HE had a huge sewing maching...the thing must weigh 100lbs, I can't move it, all though it is "portable" there is a place where a handle goes. Once many years ago (before me) someone broke into his office at the company and came through the ceiling...falling onto the machine got so mad they through it out the window on the 4th floor.., all it did was crack the top of the case. It must be cast iron is all I can think. It has normal needles in it, but it can sew anything, hard leather, plastic tarping, rough matte board. lol We've run everything imaginable through it. It's Tan and the foot release goes **!!BANG!!** when you move it, LOL. I'm not traumatized by this machine but I did see a person (who was barrowing it) run the whole side of their pointer finger through it. Sad state of affairs. I perfer to hand sew myself, but not because I'm afraid. I do it because I seem to not be abl! e to get control of the thing. it's like a wild mustang or something, one spur(push of the peddle) and it goes a million miles a minute, sucking the fabric through with a "chug-chug-chug" noise that's as loud as a vacuume. LOL I hand sew because if I used the machine I would have a mass of fabric sewn together in an incomprehensible pile of straight lines and bunches, with the occassional rip where I tried to wrestle the fabric away fromt he machine. --- Ginnaphure ICQ# 41340093 "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 04:23:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04365 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 04:23:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA24086; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 03:25:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA29222 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 03:23:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA28818 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 03:23:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t2-199.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.192.199]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id TAA21928; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:22:05 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199909130922.TAA21928@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: , Subject: H-COST: Ranting against fashion idiots Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:08:01 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" Okay, okay, that's it, I've had enough... In a recent TV current affairs show on spring fashion, the designer applauded hats as a great way to finish off an outfit and look smart. No &*%$#!! mention of why one wears a hat: protection! They are all very delighted with thier chic choices of basic black or basic white. Boring says me, someone ought to buy 'em a box of crayons - a big box with lotsa colours. And what the hell is this with women's trousers? They are being made with flat-fall fronts, you know, the type of button-up flap used mostly in the 17th & 18th centuries and very convenient when you have male plumbing. Note, MALE plumbing. Sheesh! Okay, got it out of my system. See yas. -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 04:24:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04375 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 04:24:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA24346; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 03:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA20234 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 03:33:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20048 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 03:33:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.235.124]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990913092904.JBCF2782.mta3-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:29:04 +0100 Message-ID: <37DD29E6.627@virgin.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:44:22 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Strapt' shirts, c. 1778 References: <19990912213746Z70859-19275+35@smtp1.telusplanet.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Angela Gottfred wrote: > > -Poster: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) > > "R.L. Shep" wrote: > >...I would suggest that you look > at a very simple answer - *strapt* is after all a form of *strapped* and it > might well mean that they were *strapped together in a bundle*. < > > Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm pretty confident that it's not the > meaning, because of my experience with many other inventory lists for the > HBC. It would be highly unusual for the method of packing to be given on an > inventory list. The inventory for 1776 lists 10 "white strapt" shirts (and > no other kind), the 1777 inventory gives 10 "white strapt" shirts and 6 > "check strapt" shirts, and the 1778 inventory has 4 "cotton striped" shirts, > 6 "white strapt" shirts, and 2 "check Plain" shirts. > Thanks, too, for the contact information on Gail Cariou--I'll forward my > question to her. > > Your obliged & obedient servant, > Angela Gottfred > agottfre@telusplanet.net > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Just a thought but I can't think of an explanation either. Does the strapping refer to the reinforcing shoulder bands that are starting to be used around the late 18thc perhaps they were also called straps? Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 06:04:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04490 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:04:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28536; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 05:20:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA12321 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 05:18:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12311 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 05:18:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pm9-06.wmbg.widomaker.com ([209.96.179.71] helo=widomaker.com) by wilma.widomaker.com with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) id 11QU7a-00014M-00; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:18:07 -0400 Message-ID: <37DCDCED.532D8646@widomaker.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:15:57 -0400 From: Su Carter X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume , RevList Subject: H-COST: re: 'Strapt' shirts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Su Carter Angela Gottfred said: Can someone help me untangle this one? On a list of English trading goods sent to the Hudson's Bay Company's Cumberland House post in 1777 (Rich 1:362-363), I found the following items of clothing: "Shirts white strapt/Shirts check strapt" For the same post in 1778, there are "Shirts cotton striped/Shirts white Strapt/Shirts check Plain" In both lists, the "white strapt" shirts are the most common. I haven't a clue what they are, though. I've seen shirts and other items of clothing on many inventory lists for the 1774-1821 period and most of them make sense, but this has me stumped. The editor of another journal of an HBC post c. 1790 interpreted "Shirts SS" as "shoulder strap" shirts, which I'd never heard of. (I figured it probably meant swanskin shirts--which I'd seen elsewhere--until now.) Any suggestions are welcome. ----------------------------------- Angela, I've been mulling this one over. I'm certainly no expert on shirts but I do know that the extra piece set on the shoulder line shows up somewhere in the 18c. I'd call it a strap but would they? I've checked _Workwoman's Guide_ (1838) and she certainly does. That reminded me of _Instructions for Cutting out Apparel for the Poor_ (1789) and there they are again. I'm under the impression they're being used in the 1770s in the colonies but I'll ask around. My hunch is that you're looking at a transition period between strapt and not, where some people (younger? more up-to-date?) assume them and others (older? more traditional?) don't. If you can check earlier inventories it might be interesting to see how early the 'strapt' shows up. Or, does it disappear later? Or is it a French/English difference? Maybe the French don't use them or always did. Good hunting, Su _ Su Carter scarter@widomaker.com Williamsburg, Virginia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 06:36:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05301 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:36:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29810; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 05:53:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14734 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 05:50:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14728 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 05:50:39 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6PDSa28682 (8036) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <241f9c29.250e3eef@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:50:07 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Ranting against fashion idiots To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/13/1999 5:25:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, stilskin@netspace.net.au writes: << And what the hell is this with women's trousers? They are being made with flat-fall fronts, you know, the type of button-up flap used mostly in the 17th & 18th centuries and very convenient when you have male plumbing. Note, MALE plumbing. >> Now I'm miffed! Back after I finished working on "Interview with the Vamp." I adapted some patterns for sale in a friends custom design shop. Pants & jodhpurs for women with half fall fronts! Not one sold. I gave them to my cousins for Christmas. One lives in London & one in Geneva. They get raves about them all the time, so I'm told, but over here on this side of the pond....couldn't sell 'em! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 07:38:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05391 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:38:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04213; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:54:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA20201 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:50:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20191 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:50:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6UES0zZpCc (4416) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <59421cab.250e4d06@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:50:14 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: uniquely you To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com What Margo said. I got mine a couple of years ago from Joann Fabrics for $99. The sale price might have gone up since then, but it's definitely less than $200. And the customer service is very good -- obviously those things don't fit every body exactly, and they will tell you how to pad yours (they're skinny) to get the right shape , if you call. Gail Finke still working on padding mine _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 07:39:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05395 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:39:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04173; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:54:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA20001 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:48:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA19992 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:48:45 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6WNVa06597 (4416) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:47:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2970bb15.250e4c7e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:47:58 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: zoot suit pants To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Cheryl: Wow, someone who knows how to do this! My husband needs some "zootish" (how's that for a word) pants for mid-October. He has some wide-topped pegged pants from a store, but they are not good enough. I was thinking of using the Simplicity pattern to make him some (the jacket is just beyond me; that's what I was trying to say in my pattern review -- it definitely needs all the things you said). My question is . . . I have never made anything for a man that wasn't medieval, and I've never sewn trousers at all. I have done all kinds of tricky shapes and gussets, drafted myself, for medieval clothes -- but I am sort of cowed by a men's commercial pattern (with a zipper!) that I might have to alter. This will definitely be a costume, but it needs to look pretty "real" to people who are used to seeing real suit pants, and it will be seen close up. Anyway, are men's pants difficult for someone who can follow a pattern? Or are they hard? Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 07:44:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05413 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:44:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04667; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:00:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA20746 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:56:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA20736 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:56:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990913130026.15801.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:00:26 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:00:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Costumer's boring clothes and red hair To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Gee... I thought all costumers had flamboyant wardrobes! I had to go out and buy jeans and t-shirts after a co-worker suggested I "tone down" my wardrobe a bit... lots of poet shirts and princess dresses... all made by me, of course. ;-) > Hmmmmmm... I think I missed the beginning of the "red" conversation... I have had red "hair from a bottle" since I was 13... different shades and intensities... I am naturally blonde and I found that being young in the professional world and female, the blonde didn't help me at all... so, I died my hair... (I'm the manager of an accounts receivable department at the age of 21)... I burn like all heck... 15 minutes and I am in pain for a week! I once got 2nd degree burns from falling asleep on the beach and was ill forever... thus, I wear hats... Sarah > As for red hair, mine is a natural golden blonde. > Perfectly straight and thick. I died it red a few > months ago, but have decided to go back to being a > blonde. I, too, am very pale with slate blue eyes, > but feel I pulled off the red fairly well. I am > just bored and would like to be blonde again. > Incidentally, I rarely burn, even with tan magnifier > at the beach. Weird, I know. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 07:50:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05423 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:50:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05192; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:06:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA21339 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:02:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web803.mail.yahoo.com (web803.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA21333 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:02:05 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990913130616.28491.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web803.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:06:16 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:06:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Costumers dress/red hair To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney > absolutely nothing! Red hair simply does not go with > wine, plum, or fuchsia - some of my favorite colors! > So while red hair is in I'm trying desperately to > get rid of mine. :) > Oh, I must disagree here... I wear more wine and plum colours than any others save black... though my hair is not the "strawberry blonde" that seems so popular... more of a very dark coppery colour. Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 07:52:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05430 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:52:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05408; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:08:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA21616 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:04:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21608 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:04:39 -0600 (MDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6HJYa28698 (4452) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:03:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <9221e1a9.250e5034@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:03:48 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: zoot suit pants To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 9/13/99 6:55:07 AM Mountain Daylight Time, Gaelscot@aol.com writes: << Anyway, are men's pants difficult for someone who can follow a pattern? Or are they hard? >> My suggestion is that you consult the Vogue, Simplicity, Butterick, etc. guides to men's tailoring. Step by step details on how to do men's flys (flies?). Thats definitely the tricky part. Remember that in the 40's you could still find button flies as well as zippers. So you have a choice of closures. I have found that the tailoring books usually answer any questions that I might have. Important to use good strong belting in the waistband, metal trouser zipper in the fly if that's how you're going. Hand baste zipper before machine. Be careful matching your stripes into chevrons at inseam, if you're using pinstripes. Suspender buttons, not clip ons, for authenticity. Good luck! Cheryl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 07:55:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05434 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:55:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05728; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:11:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA21838 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:06:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web803.mail.yahoo.com (web803.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA21833 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:06:31 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990913131042.29031.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web803.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:10:42 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:10:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Handsewing question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I think I can understand this... I use and old industrial sewing machine because I have found I have far less trouble with it than I do with my brand new singer... it just handles the materials I work with better (I use very heavy materials most of the time)... I have sewn my finger several times, though... It's amazing what those machines can do! I will say that every time I have done this it was due to my lack of attention... I tend to carry on conversations while I sew and I like to make eye contact when I talk, so I tend not to be looking at my material... (*bad Sarah.... bad, bad*)... All in all I think if you are careful, you aren't very likely to hurt yourself... and it saves *tons* of time... of course, if you are going for the complete authenticity thing, please by all means, keep hand sewing... I think people who have the patience to hand sew things are wonderful... I for one am not that person! Sarah --- Vince Lyons wrote: > > -Poster: "Vince Lyons" > > Had to add my story to the list of those who prefer > handsewing. > Until very recently I used to sew everything by hand > because I was flat out > terrified of sewing machines. > As a girl during WWII my mother worked in a factory, > sewing uniform pants > for the troops. When I was growing up she told me > the most gory stories > about how she would try to sew so fast she'd sew > straight through her > finger, pause, take her little pair of pliers, pull > the needle out of her > finger, re-insert it into the machine and go back to > work! > It's a wonder I ever managed to pick up a needle of > any sort! > > Kerrie, the hopelessly traumatised. ;-D > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 07:57:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05438 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:57:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05979; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:13:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA22143 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:09:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA22136 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:09:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990913131339.18132.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:13:39 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 06:13:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Lacing w/o a maid: To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Thank you all for your advice! I shall try... my biggest problem has always been that my corsets trim a good 7 or 8 inches off of my bust, which is tough to achieve by one's self... I do like the door handle approach as well as the others. Thanks bunches! Sarah > > > > This brings up a good question... I have a great > > > corset that I would *love* to wear more often, > but the > > > only one around to help me lace it is my > boyfriend who > > > won't do it... any suggestions on how to lace it > by > > > yourself? > > my corsets are all 17th/18th century... one i've > made to lace in front; for > those that lace in back i've bought satin ribbon 15 > ft long so that i can > easily pull them over my head. however, there's a > better method, and i > could have thought of it earlier as that is similar > how i put on my bras: i > put it on backwards, the shoulder straps un-tied, > and thread the laces > through the holes with a large blunt needle. then i > turn the corset round > and pull the straps tight reaching behind me... > well, i guess that latter > part won't work in a couple year's time anymore... > being laced in by > someone else certainly achieves a closer fit most of > the time. > at least i know that front-lacing cosets existed in > the 18th-20th century. > > salut, > pompadour > > > > Yours, etc, Pompadour M.A. (Unseen University) AKA > His Excellency, etc, the Minister of Silly Walks > (Mrs) > http://www.marquise.de > webmaster@marquise.de __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 08:17:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05491 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:17:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07845; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:32:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA24284 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:28:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24274 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:28:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.54.227.65] ([209.207.57.61]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA07079 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:28:17 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909130501.BAA00310@marlo.eagle.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:27:10 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: H-COST: First Elizabethan Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler >-Poster: Gothic Splendour > >I'm putting on a fashion show at a local theatre with a "fashions through >the last millenium" theme. I have a broad range of periods represented but >would like to add an Elizabethan.<...> I'd like this dress to be fairly >authentic, I'm not >entering it in any competitions but I don't like doing all of the work to >have something that is totally off target. Though I think your concerns about color choices have been addressed, I would like to respectfully suggest some other things you might want to do if you'd like this to be fairly authentic. I don't have the pattern (because I make my own), but I looked it up on the Simplicity website because I remembered seeing it and wondering where they got the style. It is something of a mixture, with large flared sleeves from early in the century and a skirt gathered/pleated at the top from later in the century and a neckline from the next century. If you'd like to do a style from, say, the 1540s, you could use the sleeves (though the undersleeves need to be bigger--check out some of the early portraits of Elizabeth as princess). If you'd like to do, say 1575, you could use the skirt (adding a bum roll would help) but would need to make the sleeves in a different style. Recent discussions have touched on several good options. For just about any time in the 16th century, the neckline should be square, not round, and fairly low. If you're doing all this, and you're determined about authenticity, you might as well reshape the bodice (which is probably patterned to be worn over a bra) so that it's flat in front and bone it so you get the proper shape. I hope this doesn't sound like the "authenticity police." This is my favorite period! Feel free to email me if you'd like more specifics. Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 08:31:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05506 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:31:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA09630; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:48:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA26553 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:43:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26503; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:43:27 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id hZWW0AyYwj (3961); Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:42:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:42:50 EDT Subject: H-COST: Estate Buying To: costumedc@onelist.com, h-costume@indra.com, vintage@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Dear All, The Washington Post has an interesting 3 page ad in today's edition. "Buying -- 6 Days Only -- Instant Cash for All" and then a list of desired items: Jewelry, watches, coins & precious metals, gem stones, war relics, historical documents, stocks & bonds, sterling & silver, guns, old toys, lady's items and more". Big sections on clothes and jewelry. Anybody in the Washington DC area that wants to sell historic fashion items might want to check it out. To the list: have you seen this kind of ad in your area? Sally Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 08:39:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05513 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:39:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10432; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:55:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA27720 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:51:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27683 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:51:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.96.178.16] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11QWVe-0006aD-00; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:51:06 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990913134752.0074abb0@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:47:52 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: Helpful Pets Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie I have three ferrets, and I do not recommend them as "helpful" costuming pets. They are far to fond of tunneling around in the fabric. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 08:54:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05531 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:54:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11888; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:10:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00315 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:06:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00306 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:06:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-62-155.s155.tnt2.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.62.155]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA29348 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:06:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008501befdf0$d0c4f660$9b3eaccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <19990912.235154.-435891.1.seamstrix@juno.com> <008201befdad$38ebce60$e8973018@pbc.adelphia.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Costumer's boring clothes and red hair Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:03:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0082_01BEFDCF.4713F360" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01BEFDCF.4713F360 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >Although I rarely sew for myself (always too busy with other people's = projects), I will make an attempt to spend some time >building a new, = more exciting wardrobe. I am actually starting to get excited about = this idea. =20 Erica, You poor dear, if you ever come to Virginia, we'll go shopping at the = thrift and vintage stores. I blend a lot of historic silhouette's with = modern clothes and come up with whole new looks. You can add a drop = waist here or there, a little of Dior's New Look, what ever suits you. = I have two sisters in Bradenton Florida, one is a dresser. Where do you = live? She too, loves to hit the thrift stores and change her "looks". = Last time I saw her she was mixing Victorian with modern clothing. My = other sister is always dressed up and matched to a tee. My son recently = went to visit my sisters and came back with a "new look". They took him = shopping all the time. I guess being able to "make do" with what you = have comes naturally to us. I have four sisters and we swapped clothes = all the time. So it looked like we had a lot of clothes, but we really = didn't. Now, I am a clothes horse, with two bulging closets. I never = get rid of anything. I have one black dress that I can create twenty = different looks with. =20 It is hard when your creativity gets stale. Watch "Style" cable = channel and their old runway shows. I pick up bits and pieces of = fashion ideas from them. I have heard that a lot of people living in = Florida have fashion problems because of the year round warm weather. = Think about this... I love to watch the "Golden Girls" reruns. Not that = the show was that great, but the costume designer did a great job of = creating the four different styles for four women in a Florida = environment. The same is true for the show "Designing Women" set in = Atlanta, another warm city. =20 Personal style changes as you change. How you feel about yourself is = reflected in fashion from the clothes you wear, to your home, and your = car. Compare the style of clothes you wore as a teenager to your = present style. Think about you felt about yourself at each time. We = all float back and forth from being conservative to being bold in = fashion. =20 A pet peeve of mine is to see the big name designers on television. = Their look is so depressing. They create these wonderful designs but = the designers seem to all dress in black jackets. Gee, if you create a = new look for the world have confidence enough to wear some of it.=20 If any of you are interested, there is a new email list on onelist = called RUNWAY. It is run by a reporter who is in NYC this week for = fashion week. He is reporting to the list all day long about what he = is seeing on the runways. All you need to do is go to www.onelist.com = and sign up to the RUNWAY list. I read his first report this morning, = it is pretty good.=20 There is also another wonderful list at onelist called Wearableart. = The lady who runs this keeps up with current fashion and places articles = and fashion links on the list. She also scans newspapers and magazines, = and gives trend reports. There is not a whole lot of talk about = wearable art but this sector of our industry is the cutting edge. So = they keep up with all the latest fashions. =20 Catch you all later... Penny ********************************* Deadline for the Online Costume Ball is Sept. 21, = http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/attend.htm ------=_NextPart_000_0082_01BEFDCF.4713F360 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>Although I rarely sew for myself (always too busy with other = people's=20 projects), I will make an attempt to spend some time >building a = new, more=20 exciting wardrobe.  I am actually starting to get excited about = this=20 idea. 
 
Erica,
 
You poor dear, if you ever come to Virginia, we'll = go=20 shopping at the thrift and vintage stores.  I blend a lot of = historic=20 silhouette's with modern clothes and come up with whole new = looks.  You=20 can add a drop waist here or there, a little of Dior's New Look, what = ever=20 suits you.  I have two sisters in Bradenton = Florida, one is a=20 dresser.  Where do you live? She too, loves to hit the = thrift stores=20 and change her "looks". Last time I saw her she was mixing Victorian = with=20 modern clothing.  My other sister is always dressed up and = matched to a=20 tee.  My son recently went to visit my sisters and came back with = a "new look".  They took him shopping all the time.  I = guess=20 being able to "make do" with what you have comes naturally to = us.  I have=20 four sisters and we swapped clothes all the time.  So it looked = like we=20 had a lot of clothes, but we really didn't.  Now, I am a clothes = horse,=20 with two bulging closets. I never get rid of anything.  I = have one=20 black dress that I can create twenty different looks with.  =
 
It is hard when your creativity gets stale.  = Watch=20 "Style" cable channel and their old runway shows.  I pick up bits = and=20 pieces of fashion ideas from them.  I have heard that a lot of = people=20 living in Florida have fashion problems because of the year round warm = weather.  Think about this... I love to watch the "Golden Girls"=20 reruns.  Not that the show was that great, but the costume = designer did a=20 great job of creating the four different styles for four women in = a=20 Florida environment.  The same is true for the show "Designing = Women" set=20 in Atlanta, another warm city.  
 
Personal style changes as you = change.  How you=20 feel about yourself is reflected in fashion from the clothes you = wear, to=20 your home, and  your car.  Compare the style of clothes = you=20 wore as a teenager to your present style.  Think about you felt = about=20 yourself at each time.  We all float back and forth from being=20 conservative to being bold in fashion. 
 
A pet peeve of mine is to see the big name = designers on=20 television.  Their look is so depressing.  They create these = wonderful designs but the designers seem to all dress in black = jackets. =20 Gee, if you create a new look for the world have confidence enough to = wear=20 some of it. 
 
If any of you are interested, there is a new email = list on=20 onelist called RUNWAY.  It is run by a reporter who is in NYC = this week=20 for fashion week.   He is reporting to the list all day long = about what he is seeing on the runways.  All you need = to do is=20 go to www.onelist.com and sign = up to the=20 RUNWAY list.  I read his first report this morning, it is = pretty=20 good. 
 
There is also another wonderful list at onelist = called=20 Wearableart.  The lady who runs this keeps up with current = fashion and=20 places articles and fashion links on the list.  She also scans = newspapers=20 and magazines, and gives trend reports.  There is not a whole lot = of talk=20 about wearable art but this sector of our industry is the = cutting=20 edge.  So they keep up with all the latest fashions.=20   
 
Catch you all later... Penny
*********************************
Deadline for the Online Costume Ball is Sept. 21, = http://= www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/attend.htm
 
 
 
------=_NextPart_000_0082_01BEFDCF.4713F360-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 08:58:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05535 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:58:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12419; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:15:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA01043 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:10:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01037 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:10:57 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id ELECXSW6; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:09:51 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: ICG-L@lists.best.com, h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:55:08 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Ranting against fashion idiots Message-ID: <19990913.090428.-312811.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 8-9 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com Well, I don't know about fashion idiots, but I did find something for sale at Marshall Field's (big, expensive department store in Chicago, like Harrod's) that I never thought I would see. You know how they say that all fashion will come back at some point? There were a few styles that I thought were long gone into the Middle Ages. Wrong. I found an early medieval hood on sale in the juniors department. It had a hood and attached capelet, no liripipe. I almost burst out laughing. It was for sale right along with all the trendy teeny-bopper clothing. Was this a fluke or has medieval really come back as a fashion influence with teens? Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 09:26:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05577 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:26:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA15858; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:42:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06621 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:38:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA06610 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:38:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990913144230.4174.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:42:30 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 07:42:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: H-COST: Medieval Teens To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Yes, it really has come back... I have been attacked by my three younger sisters who are still in high school begging me to make them "ren" clothes for school... Corsets, bodices, pouffy sleeves, slashed sleeves... they love it! Of course, it still looks a little silly with the "Kool-Aid hair" that seems to be sticking around among the high schoolers... Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 09:50:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05611 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:50:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19231; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:06:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA12203 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:02:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (alpha.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.21.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12196 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:02:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from antiquity.pbc.adelphia.net (surf12-150-207.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.150.207]) by alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id LAA01342 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:07:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005301befdf8$d6094100$cf963018@pbc.adelphia.net> From: "Erica Pence" To: References: <19990913144230.4174.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Medieval Teens Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:01:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004E_01BEFDD7.4AAE85A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Erica Pence" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BEFDD7.4AAE85A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <> I agree. But it's not just "ren" clothes. You should see the prom = orders I get...Titanic, Elizabethan, Restoration and of course, = Renaissance. Not accurate, but having that flair. If you can find an = older simplicity catalog, you can see what they pushed for prom....some = were actually "costumes". I don't know what they wear at school, but = with all these historical movies (Titanic, Ever After, Shakespeare in = Love, etc.), there is definitely a sudden interest in historical attire. = =20 Erica Pence Robes of Antiquity www.robesofantiquity.com Online store coming soon! ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BEFDD7.4AAE85A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<<Yes, it really has come back... I have been=20 attacked
by my three younger sisters who are still in high
school = begging=20 me to make them "ren" clothes for
school...  Corsets, bodices, = pouffy=20 sleeves, slashed
sleeves... they love it!  >>
 
I agree.  But it's not just "ren" clothes.  You should = see the=20 prom orders I get...Titanic, Elizabethan, Restoration and of course,=20 Renaissance.  Not accurate, but having that flair.  If you can = find an=20 older simplicity catalog, you can see what they pushed for prom....some = were=20 actually "costumes".  I don't know what they wear at school, but = with all=20 these historical movies (Titanic, Ever After, Shakespeare in Love, = etc.), there=20 is definitely a sudden interest in historical attire. 
 
Erica Pence
Robes of Antiquity
www.robesofantiquity.com
= Online=20 store coming soon!
------=_NextPart_000_004E_01BEFDD7.4AAE85A0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 10:12:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05624 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:12:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22659; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:28:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17356 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:24:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17347 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:24:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-241.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.241]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA08957 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:24:07 -0700 Message-ID: <000501befdfc$5973cda0$f1aba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: re:what costumers wear/was boring clothes Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:26:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" Okay, I'm going to date myself here terribly, but what exactly is an "Ex-raver cyberpunk"? (I try to keep up with these things, I really do, but this one escapes me) I have become horribly boring clotheswise since getting married and having kids. Plus I hate anything that is "restricting" like tight jeans or shorts, etc. I mostly wear jeans, sweats, etc. in the cold months and in the summer, shorts, tank tops or longer summer dresses. When I was younger I spent considerable amounts on clothes, but now I'm lucky I buy clothes once a year, and then its the cheap stuff at Target or Wal-Mart. None of that mall stuff.....I have other things I would rather spend my money on ;) Since I work at home, I don't have to worry about dressing up in a monkey suit every day to go to the office (thank God) and I absolutely detest pantyhose. I also hate this recent rash of "polyester" that is in all the stores. It makes me cringe to even look at it, let alone touch it. So, basically I go for comfort rather than style. Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 10:22:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05630 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:22:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24417; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:38:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA19945 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:34:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19937 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:34:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA01649; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:34:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DD19EC.81751297@serv.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:36:12 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Wool Question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > I think that wools weren't commonly heavily fulled till the 14th C > -- properly felt was made from unspun wool. I suspect that fulled wool was in period long before the 14th century. I'll try to remember to ask the fulling expert in our Barony. > Kristin--So gabardine is a heavily fulled wool? I don't spin and > don't know nearly enough about textiles. I appreciate every bit of help I > get to learn...thank you in advance. Carol Gabardine is not a fulled wool but a very fine weave. My dictionary says that it is a worsted cotton, wool, or rayon twill cloth. Don't know what they might have called it in the 14th century but twill weaves are certainly appropriate for that time. Very appropriate in fact. > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 10:25:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05644 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:25:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25117; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:42:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20741 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:37:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1-1.bctel.ca (mail1-1.bctel.ca [207.194.28.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20733 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:37:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bc.sympatico.ca (clwk01m01-44.bctel.ca [209.52.192.44]) by mail1-1.bctel.ca (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA00466 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DD1A42.94A1E4D5@bc.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:37:38 -0700 From: Marilyn Warren Organization: Crone's Sewing Circle and Terrorist Society X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-SYMPA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Costumer's boring clothes and red hair References: <19990912.235154.-435891.1.seamstrix@juno.com> <008201befdad$38ebce60$e8973018@pbc.adelphia.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marilyn Warren My hair is naturally red which is now going grey. Have to decide about dying (hair) soon. I have very pale skin and grey/blue eyes. My clothing is not only boring, it is pathetic. Sigh. Morgan Crawford of Shrewsbury, aka Marilyn Warren _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 11:24:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05737 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:24:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04610; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:39:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA06409 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:36:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06402 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:36:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p38.directcon.net [206.170.184.137]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA10130 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909131635.JAA10130@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: First Elizabethan Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >I'm thinking of a combination of crimson & dark aubergine or plum with >silver accents. Wow! True Elizabethan color audacity! Sound beautiful. Was there >any sort of rule, sleeves match underskirt or bodice matches underskirt...? My research has showed that the bodice almost always matches the overskirt. the two were considered to be one garment, even when constructed seperately. The sleeves can mach the bodice, the underskirt, or be a completely unrelated third color/fabric, because they were considered to be a different garment. . >Would a lady have worn a crimson dress? Yes, of course. >Would these colours look strange with cream added in somewhere - maybe the >sleeves? Cream would be gorgeous. I read that satin is a good choice for the overskirt, would that >be ok with a brocade underskirt? Elizabethan satins tended to be heavier, stiffer, and less shiny than the stuff we have today. Silk bridal satin is perfect if you can afford it, but I recently saw some all-polester stuff at Jo-anne's that was very, very, close. > Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 11:26:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05741 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:26:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04977; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:41:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA07030 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:39:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ecom.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07025 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:39:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port122.imag.net [204.244.111.122]) by ecom.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA04231 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:43:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001b01befe06$b08f6900$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: H-COST: Rabid sewing machines Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:40:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Hello! Oh yes, machine running amok - I learned not to lean at all forward when that happens, not even to pull out the curtains that got sucked in . . . try picking out a seam that has your t-shirt in it, while you're wearing it. Not good. Hand sewing is so much more peaceful, and it's great to take along to camping events to keep busy. Sitting with a group who are weaving and spinning and sewing is a great experience. As long as my tunic doesn't get sucked into the spinning wheel, of course. Zelda -----Original Message----- From: Gia Gavino-Gattshall To: h-costume@indra.com Date: September 12, 1999 11:12 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Handsewing question > >-Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" > >Hi! > >I have the same problem. When I sew by machine, I tend to go really really >fast and then have to spend time using my seam ripper...I've been doing alot >more sewing by hand and actually *love* it! Less time with the seam ripper, _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 11:37:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05771 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:37:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07048; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:53:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09936 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:50:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ecom.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09924 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:50:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port122.imag.net [204.244.111.122]) by ecom.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA07509 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:54:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002c01befe08$40d13b00$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: H-COST: A Tale of 4 sewing machines Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:51:37 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Hello! One, my mother's, went wild on me (sucked in the curtains, my t shirt in addition to the material I was working on. Sheesh) and the tension was destroyed after that. She bought a wonderful older machine that I am forbidden to touch. The second was a thrift store find, a portable Brother, that sewed for about two minutes, went THUNK and managed to only sew two stitches before breaking the thread. The sewing machine repairman said a little plastic piece broke. The cost was horrendous, so I bought a reconditioned black Singer straight sew, waited for about 6 months until I could get a decent sewing machine cabinet to put it in (and the warranty expired in that time). I found a wonderful cabinet, with an old singer straight sew in it (bonus). Brought it home, switched the machines (the bonus machine looked like it had never been cleaned since it was bought). The first Singer did exactly the same thing as the Brother. Thunk, sews two stitches, breaks the thread. The bonus machine won't run at all. By the time I got around to trying it, I preferred handsewing so much that I refuse to put out any more money to see what is wrong with it. Zelda -----Original Message----- From: Michelle To: h-costume@indra.com Date: September 10, 1999 10:28 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Handsewing question > >-Poster: "Michelle" > > >->I have an amazing way with sewing machines - have broken 4 in the last >year. > > OH dear! How did that happen? > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 11:39:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05797 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:39:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07439; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:55:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10547 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:52:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10540 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:52:47 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ZPSa01989 (4426) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:52:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8daf9dd0.250e85bb@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:52:11 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 9/11/1999 6:19:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, penny.creative.outlets@erols.com writes: << My red hair comes from a bottle, but I can claim my gray hairs came from taking too many historic costume classes and five hour exams!!!! LOL. Maybe, Mela's red hair came from teaching historic costume. No... Mela was not my professor, just a wonderful person I met on this list. >> Oh man, this is an interesting digression. I too, am a redhead! Shall we take a count? My red hair is from the same source as Penny's, and for the same reason.... But I'm still sensing a trend here. Red hair (Natural or otherwise), passion for costuming, hmmm.... angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "Be not afraid of greatness; some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them." Twelfth-Night, II, v - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 11:40:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05806 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:40:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07602; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:56:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10735 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:53:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10703 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:53:26 -0600 (MDT) From: Klynscumpy@aol.com Received: from Klynscumpy@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6FAW0f45JP (3988) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7817d93c.250e85e3@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:52:51 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #565 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 60 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Klynscumpy@aol.com Okay had to respond...another red head here too! And I wear orange all the time, and all those odd colors of green that no one else can wear. Mine is natural but now enhanced, and oddly I started out with brown eyes but they now look a lot more green in my almost middle years. I was always struck by all the photographs of Edith Head, always wearing her little black (or dark suit) and white blouse, with her hair always pulled away from her face, very business-like and practical. I understand why, now. Sometines working with color and form so much just tuckers a person out, especially when it comes to figuring out something for oneself. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 11:42:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05822 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:42:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08025; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:58:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11439 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:56:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ecom.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11427 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:56:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port122.imag.net [204.244.111.122]) by ecom.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA09103 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:00:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003101befe09$0cb67f00$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Handsewing question Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 09:57:20 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Hello! I have problems with thimbles, too. If I don't take a long break from sewing, usually a callous builds up and I can sew through 4 layers of heavy cotton without a thimble, but until then, OW! Thanks for the advice - I'll be applying some of it very soon. There's a pair of "Norse" pants that need finishing soon. Thank you, Zelda -----Original Message----- From: Kat & Kent To: h-costume@indra.com Date: September 10, 1999 10:24 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Handsewing question > >-Poster: Kat & Kent > >The Rogue wrote: >> > >> I have an amazing way with sewing machines - have broken 4 in the last >> year. >> Even on of the indestructible black Singer straight sew models. Now I >> handsew everything, and found that I really like handsewing much more >> than working with a machine. This works well with the 20th century >> Norse costuming I've been doing, but the thought of doing later period >> clothing worries me. Has anyone handsewn a corset, dresses or >> doublet? Any advice would be helpful. Especially about handsewing in >> an authentic manner (if I'm stuck doing it, why not have a little fun >> with it!!) or materials or methods to avoid. > >Well, since I didn't even *have* a sewing machine for the first 6 years >I was sewing I think I can answer at least part of this! I've >sewn everything from 70's peasant blouses to prairie bonnets to full >length gowns by hand with no problems (except for thread knotting up on >me!). I always use quilting or button thread for handsewing. I run out >about a yard and a half, thread it through the needle, double it and >knot it and if the thread gives me too much trouble I *wax* it (amazing >what that can do!). I either fold my seam over and under (so the cut >edge is covered and sew down the middle of that or I sew a shirt tail >hem all the way around and then sew the appropriate seams together. I >tend to take four - five stitches at a time and I use the thinnest >needles I can find. I never, ever use a thimble (which shocked the heck >out of my grandmothers) but that's because I've yet to find one that >feels comfortable at *all* (conventional, ring, leather, quilters etc). >I often do garments completely by hand if time allows (although for >theatrical sewing I tend to go with the machine for times sake and if >I'm pressed on my own garments will sew the interior seams by machine >and just do the finishing by hand). If you are sewing through a number >of thickness' of fabric (ex a corset) you may find it easier to use a >good thimble and bring the needle through and then back one stitch at a >time. Of course, the closer and more even the stitches the better. I >have used a leather needle on a garment that had one layer of canvas and >two of cloth because I got tired of bending needles. The biggest thing >is to match your needle and thread to the garment material. If you >haven't already, you might look into picking up a set of 'craft >needles'. They generally contain two curved needles and a glovers >needle, all of which I've found helpful while handsewing. My best >advice is, if it doesn't work the first time...try switching needle or >thread or both. Enjoy. BTW I'm curious...how exactly are you breaking >the machines? > >Kat > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 11:52:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05858 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:52:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09840; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:08:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14172 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:06:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ecom.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14161 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port122.imag.net [204.244.111.122]) by ecom.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA12213 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:10:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003b01befe0a$734b5f00$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: "historic costuming" Subject: H-COST: Question about 10th century pants for men Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:07:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Hello; Another post! I guess I'm not a lurker anymore! But still learning, though. I'm working on a pair of pants (first ever pair I've made) and the *fly* area closure has me stumped. I want these to be as authentic as possible. My fiancée re-enacts a Scandinavian Viking/ Virangian of the late 10th century or very early 11th. Would buttons be appropriate, or would another type of closure be more appropriate? Would there be a triangular flap inset somehow? How about a wide (3 to 4 inches) waistband with ties? Would there have been any embellishment on the pants? Thank you, Zelda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 11:55:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05863 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:55:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10506; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:11:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA14855 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:08:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from svr-a-02.core.theplanet.net (svr-a-02.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14838 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:08:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem57.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.57] helo=herimats) by svr-a-02.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 11QZav-0007R7-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:08:45 +0100 Message-ID: <00aa01befe0a$a5ef8b20$39065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <003001befd88$684b56a0$b747fea9@gunsafes> Subject: Re: H-COST: traumatized stories Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:04:11 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Back in the dawn of time when I first started studying; the whole of the first three weeks was devoted to machine practise; We were given pieces of paper like the old fashioned shiny toilet paper which had been printed with several lines of dots in gradually more intricate patterns; At the end of each day we had to hand them in ; They were closely inspected, any trace of blood they all had to be redone. You soon learnt not to put your fingers anywhere near the nasty bit. To make matters worse us the foreigners in the class were expected to learn Italian at the same time , shouting out our verbs and vocabulary over the din of thirty odd machines. I cant remember much of the language now but still shout for no apparent reason. However it was the big unguarded leather skiving machines with their hug cutting discs that always put the wind up me ; always ready to pull anything and everything into their dark innards and shred them. I soon became expert at hand skiving, rather than wake up at nights sweating. Dave +++++++++++++++ L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters > > -Poster: "Michelle" > One of my friends accidentally sewed a teddy bear head to her thumb in 7th > grade home-ec. She has been terrified of sewing machines ever since and > just recently commented that she should get over it. She is about 35 years > old now. These things happen. > Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 12:01:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05885 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:01:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11502; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:18:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16827 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:16:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16819 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-241.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.241]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA16036 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:16:19 -0700 Message-ID: <006f01befe0c$06a08b80$f1aba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:18:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Broneske" Well, I guess I'll have to chime in on this one too.....red hair also, from a bottle, BUT I have a long, illustrious family history of redheads, lots of aunts and uncles with red hair, I just happened to inherit plain old brown with red highlights. Fortunately, I have the coloring for it and most people think it is my normal color. I never liked the color of my hair and have colored it various colors probably since I was about 18. I've tried every color there is (except for blue, pink, green, etc.) and have finally settled on red which I've had for the last 10 years. Joan Broneske unicorn@softcom.net @-->---------------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 12:15:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05898 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:15:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13578; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:32:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20081 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:29:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20067 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:29:48 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6NSA0B3m3Q (4426) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:27:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1b75acde.250e8e19@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:27:53 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Strapt' shirts, c. 1778 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 21 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 9/12/1999 2:38:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, agottfre@telusplanet.net writes: << It would be highly unusual for the method of packing to be given on an inventory list. The inventory for 1776 lists 10 "white strapt" shirts (and no other kind), the 1777 inventory gives 10 "white strapt" shirts and 6 "check strapt" shirts, and the 1778 inventory has 4 "cotton striped" shirts, 6 "white strapt" shirts, and 2 "check Plain" shirts. >> Given the context, I'd venture a guess it's referring to stripes of some sort in the fabric. The other references being "check" and "plain" etc. Let us know when you solve the mystery. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "If to do were as easy as to know what were good to do, chapels had been churches, and poor men's cottages princes' palaces." The Merchant of Venice, I, ii - William Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 12:17:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05906 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:17:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13908; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:34:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20604 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:31:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20594 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:31:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id KAA06534; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:32:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DD3578.B115C8C1@serv.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:33:45 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Boring clothes? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > Here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday > life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a > fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? I do a combination of boring/yuppie/flamboyant. Depends on the day. I either shop at thrift stores or Ross. I used to shop almost exclusively at Nordstrom. Nice store if you can justify the expense. I go to Ross and buy lots of $10 dresses for spring. Stuff I can just throw on and run to work in in the spring. In the winter I wear to work a lot of pants and turtlenecks. I have gotten so bored with my clothes it's awful. And finding clothes that fit the way my historical clothing fits has finally convinced me that I need to sew my modern clothes too. So, I am taking a small break from my activities and going to just make clothes for the next month. Pants that fit, a black velvet circle skirt with bolero, some retro dresses and aprons, etc... I do love clothes that have flair and just got a great winter coat, black wook, with a long peplum (almost to the knees) with a faux fur collar and cuffs. I *love* it, it kind of has a Guard from the Wizard of Oz flair but not as long, sort of russian influenced I guess. I love embroidery so have lots of clothes with embroidery (either by me or not, I'm not particular). I embellish by hand much of my historial clothing and intend to start doing more of that in my modern wear. I've gained a bit of weight over the past couple years so I don't wear what I did when I was younger, but that's also because I've discovered I'm more modest these days. I cover myself up so my skirts are mostly long and I rarely show cleavage. I hate to worry about what I'm going to wear, how I'm going to do my hair, don't like fussing with makeup unless it's a special occassion. I think this year, I need a new makeover though. So some of that might change. I wear a lot of black but discovered color and am working on incorporating more of that. Black hair, pale skin, green eyes, so maybe back a little kohl. I used to dress kind of goth-punk, lots of black with silver jewelry. The colors suit me well so I'm thinking of trying to find a more conservative way to do this, not so rebellious but definitely not too conservative. Anyhoo, it's been fascinating reading all this. I can definitely see the progression in my own life, as soon as I started historical costuming my clothes horse needs went there and I've been paying almost no attention at all to what I look like the other 90% of my life! *LAUGH* Pathetic actually. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 12:24:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05912 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:24:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15247; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:40:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22013 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:37:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from svr-a-02.core.theplanet.net (svr-a-02.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22003 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:37:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem21.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.21] helo=herimats) by svr-a-02.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.10 #2) id 11Qa2g-00080M-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:37:27 +0100 Message-ID: <029101befe0e$a81f66a0$39065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <199909110445.WAA16605@net.indra.com> <37DAFF5B.99B68F22@vci.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: wool question Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:36:58 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Just a matter of interest. Should anuyone get a chance to visit Higher Mill ; Helmshore, Rossendale, Lancashire, still has 18c fulling mill extant as a museum : The large bales of wool are supported on slowly rotating beams while being thumped by huge water driven trip hammers. The whole contraption is built over the river and the bales are constantly wetted ; I think but I am may be completely wrong that it was here that I was told.- Human urine was collected from the ale houses to soak the wool in prior to fulling and that the best came from the houses where strong ale was drunk; I am trying to remmeber if this is correct or it is a story that I picked up somewhere completely different; Any ideas? Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters ----- Original Message ----- > > -Poster: "schuck@vci.net" > > Forgive me if this has been asked before, I'm fairly new to this list. How is wool > fabric fulled? > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 12:25:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05916 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:25:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15699; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:42:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22592 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:39:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22565 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:39:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA10329 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:39:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-98.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.98]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02649 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:39:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00a101befe0f$f2261860$4aedfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: A Tale of 4 sewing machines Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:46:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Sounds like you are in desperate need of a Viking. They never need oiling and they are pretty much unjammable (I once ran over a pin and the pin bent into a 'w' and was stuck in the throat plate). I have had mine for years, passed down from my mother who got an upgrade. Michelle >-Poster: "The Rogue" > >Hello! > >One, my mother's, went wild on me (sucked in the curtains, my t shirt in >addition to the material I was working on. Sheesh) and the tension was >destroyed after that. She bought a wonderful older machine that I am >forbidden to touch. The second was a thrift store find, a portable Brother, >that sewed for about two minutes, went THUNK and managed to only sew two >stitches before breaking the thread. The sewing machine repairman said a >little plastic piece broke. The cost was horrendous, so I bought a >reconditioned black Singer straight sew, waited for about 6 months until I >could get a decent sewing machine cabinet to put it in (and the warranty >expired in that time). I found a wonderful cabinet, with an old singer >straight sew in it (bonus). Brought it home, switched the machines (the >bonus machine looked like it had never been cleaned since it was bought). >The first Singer did exactly the same thing as the Brother. Thunk, sews two >stitches, breaks the thread. > >The bonus machine won't run at all. By the time I got around to trying it, >I preferred handsewing so much that I refuse to put out any more money to >see what is wrong with it. > >Zelda > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 12:29:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05920 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:29:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16681; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:46:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23746 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:43:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23727 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:43:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990913174348.GEDF22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]>; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:43:48 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:47:13 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com CC: fred Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990913174348.GEDF22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" Do I get to play too? I am not really a costumer - although costumes are a mojor part of my life. I WAS a redhead. Now I am a silver and gold head which I augment with *Just for Men* I wear Levi's and often times brightly colored shirts. I don't know what *cleavage* has to do with how one dresses - but I don't show any! Don't have any! ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: "Broneske" >To: >Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes >Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999, 10:18 AM > > >-Poster: "Broneske" > >Well, I guess I'll have to chime in on this one too.....red hair also, from >a bottle, BUT I have a long, illustrious family history of redheads, lots of >aunts and uncles with red hair, I just happened to inherit plain old brown >with red highlights. Fortunately, I have the coloring for it and most >people think it is my normal color. I never liked the color of my hair and >have colored it various colors probably since I was about 18. I've tried >every color there is (except for blue, pink, green, etc.) and have finally >settled on red which I've had for the last 10 years. > >Joan Broneske >unicorn@softcom.net >@-->---------------- > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 12:31:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05926 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:31:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17073; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:48:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24288 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:45:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24281 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:45:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990913174543.GEJS22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:45:43 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 10:49:15 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: wool question From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990913174543.GEJS22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" I have heard about urine being used to help in the dyeing process but not in fulling... which does not mean it was not done. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: "LDMundy" >To: >Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: wool question >Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999, 10:36 AM > > >-Poster: "LDMundy" > >Just a matter of interest. Should anuyone get a chance to visit Higher Mill >; Helmshore, Rossendale, Lancashire, still has 18c fulling mill extant as a >museum : >The large bales of wool are supported on slowly rotating beams while being >thumped by huge water driven trip hammers. The whole contraption is built >over the river and the bales are constantly wetted ; >I think but I am may be completely wrong that it was here that I was told.- >Human urine was collected from the ale houses to soak the wool in prior to >fulling and that the best came from the houses where strong ale >was drunk; >I am trying to remmeber if this is correct or it is a story that I picked up >somewhere completely different; Any ideas? >Dave >L.D.Mundy >Editor.Heritage Matters >----- Original Message ----- > >> >> -Poster: "schuck@vci.net" >> >> Forgive me if this has been asked before, I'm fairly new to this list. How >is wool >> fabric fulled? >> > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 12:53:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05993 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:53:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21260; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:08:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00249 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:06:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00228 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:06:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip220-100.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.100]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA11767 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:05:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990913015116.00a43480@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:51:16 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Boring clothes? In-Reply-To: References: <199909110445.WAA16605@net.indra.com> <199909110445.WAA16605@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >At 10:45 PM -0600 9/10/99, owner-h-costume-digest@indra.com wrote: >>So, here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday >>life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a >>fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? I must say that I dress casual and rather boring most of the time and my suits are all classic. I was brought up with the thinking that "it's better to have a few good quality pieces than lots of cheap ones". However, when it's "dress-up time" I like to dress with a bit more *flare*. I'm 5'10" and can usually carry off stuff that a lot of other people "can't." However, I'm a firm believer in natural fibres. >I want to have good quality clothes that will last for years, especially >as I'm petite and have a hard time finding clothes that fit me (why do >they never keep size Small in stock???). I must say "Where do you live?!" All I ever find here are smalls. It seems most places carry a large stock of sizes 2 to 8 and almost nothing for the *non-petits*. It's the bane of my existence - well that and shoes. I'm a size 11 1/2 (which doesn't *really* exist) and all I ever see are sizes 6 to 10. Grrrr. I wish the manufactures would realize that we come in all shapes and sizes. Woops! How did I get on that soapbox. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 12:54:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05997 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:54:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21325; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:08:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00368 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:06:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00352 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:06:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip220-100.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.100]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA11785 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990913013409.00a43100@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:34:09 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Source for gemstone bead buttons In-Reply-To: <19990911182123.6223.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >I found a 16" strand of Howlite (dyed Lapis) 10mm beads (about 41 beads) >for $6.83 per strand (If you buy more than 3, there is a proportional >discount). They also have a 12mm (34 beads) for $9.82. Their regular >lapis runs from $14.95 (for 4mm) to $29.95 (for 8mm). I think I'll preface this with the statement "however I say this I'm sure it will come out wrong". Hi, my name is Danielle Nunn-Weinberg and I'm a gemmologist. I just wanted to ask you if you realize that Howlite is a completely different mineral from Lapis Lazuli. Howlite is usually dyed a variety of different colours to be used as an inexpensive substitute for the more expensive stone it it impersinating. Most Lapis on the market these days is dyed already. The way to test for dyed lapis is take a cotton swab soaked in rubbing alcohol. Rub it on a non-visible portion of the stone. If there is any blue on the swab - the stone is dyed. Please don't let either of these things detract from your enjoyment of the stone, it is just meant as information. Please forgive me if I've offended. Cheers, Danielle Nunn-Weinberg, FGA, FCGmA _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 12:54:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05991 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:51:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21255; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:08:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00246 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:06:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00206 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:06:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p1.directcon.net [206.170.184.100]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA20666 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909131804.LAA20666@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST:Cartridge pleating question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I was at a costuming workshop for 1850's work dresses this weekend, and a woman demonstrated cartridge pleating in a way that I had never seen before. She held two or three needles at the same time between her thumb and finger, and stitched the multiple rows all at the same time. When another participant said she couldn't get the hang of it, and could she just stitch the rows seperately, the instructor said no, that wouldn't work. I (rather impolitically) said of course it would, I do it all the time, she said "Well, it might work, but it wouldn't be cartridge pleating!" and that this was the only historically accurate way to do it. Now, I've been reading about, and doing, costume construction for most of my life and I've never seen such a thing. Does anybody have any idea where she got this technique? Was it really the standard method for the 1850's? And does anyone have any priomary evidence that it was done the usual way, one row of stitches at a time, in the period? This same person, BTW, doesn't think I should be drafting my own patterns. She wants me to use Past Patterns or some other company's pattern, "because that way it's historically accurate". I find it very hard to let her know that I know what I'm doing without sounding like I'm bragging. She knows I teach classes in costume of the period, and she's seen my work, but all she does is make comments on what's different, such as the fact that I'm wearing full stays, while she's wearing sensible stays. I can't figure out if this is ignorance, jealousy, oblivion, or what, and I really don't know how to deal with the situation. Any ideas? Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 12:54:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06003 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:54:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21357; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:09:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00423 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:06:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00399 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:06:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip220-100.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.100]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA12003 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:06:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990913015626.00a43bf0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:56:26 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Red hair was (Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, I have red hair to. It's mine because I paid for it! Actually my natural hair colour is blond but, I look better in orange this way. ;) It's strange how many people think that the red is my natural colour - I've got that pale (in my case sallow), almost translucent Celtic skin. >I can't believe it! Another person whose eyes turned from blue to green. I think it's neat that there are other people who's eyes changed colours. Mine went from violet/purple when I was little to blue/grey when I hit grade school. Now they just change colour depending on what I'm wearing and my mood. They've been known to anything between emerald green and silver grey, with lots of shades of blue in between. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 13:16:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06035 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:16:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25758; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:32:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06638 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:30:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06621 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:30:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11Qarm-0009gJ-0B for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:30:15 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:29:26 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Question about 10th century pants for men In-Reply-To: <003b01befe0a$734b5f00$03000004@van1282> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id MAA06626 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <003b01befe0a$734b5f00$03000004@van1282>, The Rogue writes > >-Poster: "The Rogue" > >Hello; > >Another post! I guess I'm not a lurker anymore! > >But still learning, though. I'm working on a pair of pants (first ever pair >I've made) and the *fly* area closure has me stumped. I want these to be as >authentic as possible. My fiancée re-enacts a Scandinavian Viking/ >Virangian of the late 10th century or very early 11th. Would buttons be >appropriate, or would another type of closure be more appropriate? Would >there be a triangular flap inset somehow? How about a wide (3 to 4 inches) >waistband with ties? > They don't have any kind of fly - trousers of this period are just like sweatpants, with a drawstring round the waist. A fly opening is very late - I'm not sure when they come in, but certainly after codpieces go out, and the codpiece is still there in the 16th century. >Would there have been any embellishment on the pants? > I don't think so. Between the bottom of the tunic, which could be embroidered or edged with braid, and the top of your boots, there's not a whole lot showing to embellish. If he was wearing hose and braies (like shorts tucked into loose stockings) the top of the hose could be decorated with a narrow border. >Thank you, >Zelda > You're welcome - keep posting those questions! Jean -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 13:16:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06039 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:16:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25762; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:32:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06648 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:30:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06642 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:30:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11Qarm-000Pka-0K for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:30:19 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:19:12 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes/RED HAIR In-Reply-To: <19990912.235154.-435891.1.seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie Looks like I'm going to have to "come out" as a red-head too - not carroty, just very deep chestnut. My skin is much more red-headed than my hair - SPF3000, or possibly the complete Afghani throw-a-sheet-over- your-head look! Jean > >-Poster: seamstrix@juno.com > >Well although my parents thought that I would be a red-head, I proved my >contrary nature a became a deep ash blonde instead. I 'assist' the >brightness of my hair with some lighter blonde color. But I haven't >changed the essential color of my hair, I'm just too darn pale to go with >any other shade (pale grey-blue eyes and translucent white skin- yes, I'm >Northern European, why do you ask?) > >Karen >(SPF 3000 is my friend) > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 13:30:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06056 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:30:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29388; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:46:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10817 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:44:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10803; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:44:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:44:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909131844.MAA10803@net.indra.com> From: melanies@skylightopera.com To: h-costume@net.indra.com Subject: H-COST: First Elizabethan (ps) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: melanies@skylightopera.com Greetings This is a postscript to my earlier message regarding the Simplicity Elizabethan pattern. I had said that if you wished to do 1540, you could use the flared sleeve but forgot to mention that I have not seen any examples of tied-on sleeves this early, so you might wish to sew it in instead. Melanie (from work!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 13:35:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06073 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:35:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00445; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:52:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA12233 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:50:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m10.boston.juno.com (m10.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.195]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12220 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:50:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from annetteallen@juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id ELEURYQD; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:46:18 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:44:59 +0000 Subject: Re: Red hair was (Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress) Message-ID: <19990913.114513.-232099.0.AnnetteAllen@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-9,11-15,17-18,20-27,29-61 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 From: Annette M Allen Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Annette M Allen Mmmmm. Maybe red tones and light colored eyes are genetically related. (I know, way OT, but I couldn't resist...) My hair was white blonde as a child and people assumed my eyes were blue. My mother dressed me in pastels. (Of course, this was the fifties...) As I grew older and my hair grew darker, I insisted on blonde and everyone else kept calling it "strawberry blonde". I began wearing jewel tones and people began asking me what color my eyes are. (I call them Hazel Grey, because they are grey when I am naked in a cream colored bathroom with no makeup on.) They range from grey to bright blue, blue, green, blue-green, and/or yellow. (Apparently, they turn yellow when I am very angry, according to my husband, who would be the most likely to know!) I cannot use ash colors on my hair; it turns green. I cannot use gold colors on my hair, it turns red. Since it is turning silver in some areas, I have found a blonde with silver highlights. It looks very blonde to me but someone said the other day: "Your hair has a lot of red in it, doesn't it? AARGGHHH! (Not that I don't like red hair, I have a grandaughter with beautiful strawberry blonde hair. ) -Annette On Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:56:26 -0400 Danielle Nunn writes: > > -Poster: Danielle Nunn > > Greetings, > > I have red hair to. It's mine because I paid for it! Actually > my > natural hair colour is blond but, I look better in orange this way. > ;) > It's strange how many people think that the red is my natural colour > - I've > got that pale (in my case sallow), almost translucent Celtic skin. > > >I can't believe it! Another person whose eyes turned from blue to > green. > > I think it's neat that there are other people who's eyes changed > colours. > Mine went from violet/purple when I was little to blue/grey when I > hit > grade school. Now they just change colour depending on what I'm > wearing > and my mood. They've been known to anything between emerald green > and > silver grey, with lots of shades of blue in between. > > Cheers, > Danielle > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 13:37:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06091 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:37:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00915; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:54:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA12773 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:52:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12757 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:52:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02377 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:51:25 -0400 Message-ID: <37DD47B8.4EB97482@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:54:27 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoe dyeing question References: <005701befafe$f059b280$22aca0d1@j9g8x8> <00a701befb17$9a02b1c0$36065cc3@herimats> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > If its the stuff I think it is that we have in the UK called Nubuck a very > thin sliver of real leather stuck to a polymer base and the roughes up to > give a nap. The folks at Dexter Shoes (excellent shoes made in Maine) report that there are many types of "nubuck." Some of them are entirely of leather; clearly some, presumably cheaper by other companies, are leather-plus-other-stuff. -- "It would make sense to do it that way" is a dangerous statement when pursuing historical accuracy, almost as error prone as "They could do it that way, therefore they did". -- Margo Anderson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 13:49:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06133 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:49:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02997; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:06:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA15867 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:03:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15852 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:03:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA08356 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:03:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA11846 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:03:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:03:47 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tudor/18C stays and shoulder straps In-Reply-To: <8da8f59a.250c856e@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Another alternative is to use bundles of thin reeds, rather like broomstraw. This is the kind of reed that was found in the Pfaltzgrafin's corset shown in Arnold's Patterns of Fashion. I've heard that it's very comfortable, very supportive, and breathes well. I just got some broomstraw myself, and will let people know how it actually turns out. Drea On Sun, 12 Sep 1999 HighlndLss@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: HighlndLss@aol.com > > Thank you for the tip about waxing the reed for the stays, that's something > that I didn't think of. > > The stays that I had with the reed was good for a few years, but then the > cracking of the reed got to be too much of a problem trying to continually > replace. I have since made my stays completely from the spring steel, which, > because of my chest-heavy figure is really the strength that I probably > needed in the first place. I also found that I was more comfortable making > both a front and back lacing pattern. I have a tendency to shift weight a > lot. So having the possibility of adjusting both front and back together is > really helpful. I adjust the back so that the front will always come > completely together when laced. Then I leave the back lacing in place, and at > events always use the front for putting the stays on and off. This is so much > easier for dressing in the mornings. > > Thanks for your suggestions, > Susan K. > 42nd HRH & 17th Light Dragoons > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 13:50:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06139 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:50:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03215; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:07:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16311 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:05:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16286 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:05:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.81.155] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A9E329D5013C; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:00:51 -0400 Message-ID: <006401befe1a$db12cdc0$9b51ccd1@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: <1b75acde.250e8e19@aol.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: 'Strapt' shirts, c. 1778 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:04:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" > > In a message dated 9/12/1999 2:38:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > agottfre@telusplanet.net writes: > > It would be highly unusual for the method of packing to be given on an > inventory list. The inventory for 1776 lists 10 "white strapt" shirts (and > no other kind), the 1777 inventory gives 10 "white strapt" shirts and 6 > "check strapt" shirts, and the 1778 inventory has 4 "cotton striped" shirts, > 6 "white strapt" shirts, and 2 "check Plain" shirts. > This is COMPLETE speculation, based on working-class shirts from nearly a century and a half later.. but could it possibly refer to a shirt that was meant to be worn with suspenders? This guess is based on my father, who was born in Ireland in 1919, and always referred to his suspenders as "straps". He kept several decade old shirts that had either a single little loop of fabric (think of the hang tab on those yuppie oxford shirts of the 80s, but positioned lower, a bit above mid-back) or an X in the same spot to hold the suspenders halfway up. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 13:50:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06143 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:50:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03219; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:07:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16315 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:05:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16297 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:05:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem1.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.1] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11QbPe-0000CW-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:05:14 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01befe1a$ebb44fa0$01065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <19990913174348.GEDF22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes-cleavage Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:04:36 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" In the Uk ; gentlemen's cleavage is shown at the rear , below the waist, as a result if the trouser being worn on the hips. the display of cleavage by building workers is an important part of modern day British culture; No I am not Joking, however unbelievable Dave ++++++++++++ L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters > > -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > > I wear Levi's and often times brightly colored shirts. I don't know what > *cleavage* has to do with how one dresses - but I don't show any! Don't > have any! > ~!~ R.L.Shep > http://www.rlshep.com > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 13:53:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06147 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:53:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03852; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:11:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA17187 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:08:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17181 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:08:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Natekakar@aol.com Received: from Natekakar@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6GRAa16296 (4334) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:07:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2b739502.250ea58f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:07:59 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST:Cartridge pleating question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) sub 7 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Natekakar@aol.com I've never seen ANYTHING that suggested that one needed to run the needles all at once -- the key is to have the threads come in and out at the same vertical point on the fabric, NOT at the same time!!!! I'll look in my period construction books, but I usually do a foot of stitches on the upper and repeat with the lower. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 13:57:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06159 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:57:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04637; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA17995 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:11:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17983 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:11:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FI000G33IM4XG@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:10:52 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:18:57 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Question about 10th century pants for men In-reply-to: <199909131731.LAA20634@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990913141857.0079fd40@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA17985 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson Zelda wrote: >But still learning, though. I'm working on a pair of pants (first ever pair >I've made) and the *fly* area closure has me stumped. I want these to be as >authentic as possible. My fiancée re-enacts a Scandinavian Viking/ >Virangian of the late 10th century or very early 11th. Would buttons be >appropriate, or would another type of closure be more appropriate? Would >there be a triangular flap inset somehow? How about a wide (3 to 4 inches) >waistband with ties? > >Would there have been any embellishment on the pants? The Skjoldehamn trousers (a little bit of which can be seen at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/cloth/skolde3.html ) are drawstring pants with a bit of trim around the bottom cuff, and about six inches up the outside leg. The Skjodehamn find (consisting of kyrtle, shirt, trousers, shoes (lost?) and knife handle) was discovered in 1936 in a bog on the Island of Andøya, in Veserålen in northern Norway. It may date to sometime between 1000-1210 (based on Carbon dating although the style of his kyrtle would suggest a later date of 13th-14th c). There is some debate about whether he was Norse or Sami and whether or not that would matter to the style of clothing. If you want more information there's an article on this clothing (which SOMEone left off his bibliography) Gjessing, G. "Skjoldehamndrakten, En Senmiddeelaldersk mannsdrakt" in Viking v.2 (1938) pp.27-81. And I'm thinking there's one in a much later volume of Viking as well, but I can't find the citation at the moment. Yes, they are in Norwegian, but you get used to that after a while... Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 14:04:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06182 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:04:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05930; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19815 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:19:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19803 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:19:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p32.directcon.net [206.170.184.81]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA28830 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:17:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909131917.MAA28830@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes-cleavage Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 08:04 PM 09/13/1999 +0100, you wrote: > >-Poster: "LDMundy" > >In the Uk ; gentlemen's cleavage is shown at the rear , below the waist, as >a result if the trouser being worn on the hips. In the US, we call that look "plumber's butt". I wouldn't call it an important part of our culture, though. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 14:06:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06186 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:06:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06328; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:23:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA20328 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:21:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA20318 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:21:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Mon Sep 13 12:20:28 1999 To: "Historic Costume" Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:20:28 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: H-COST: (No Subject) X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.36.156 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" Hi, I have a question that probably sounds really stupid to you gus, but I'm curious. Way back when, was most metallic embroidery done with actual metal? and if so, when you guys make authentic costumes do you use actual metal for this or do you use the "silver" & "gold" thread you can buy now? I've seen several peices in my life which had this wire type embroidery, of course all tarnished and in general in bad shape. Mostly on shoes and purses for some reason. I've read about detail work quite a bit but have never seen anything about metallic embroidery. I was just wondering what they used? was is wire of a smaller gage than beading wire (like they use for jewelry) or what? again I appologize if this is a stupid question. --- Ginnaphure ICQ# 41340093 "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 14:08:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06190 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:08:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06668; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:25:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA20815 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:22:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from na-ims.alcoa.com ([147.154.3.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20801 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:22:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by NA-IMS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:21:58 -0400 Message-ID: <0B3E3AA67456D311A9FC0000E889ED9809F49F@dhcp-183-2.dpw.alcoa.com> From: "Fairchild, Connie E." To: "'h-costume-digest@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Red Satin Boots Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:16:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Fairchild, Connie E." In the section with high button shoes, I saw red satin lace up shoes listed in the Amazon Drygoods catalog. Their question line phone # is 319-322-4138 Connie Fairchild _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 14:15:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06196 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:15:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08750; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:32:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA22781 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:30:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22766 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:30:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.81.155] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AFB882A015A; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:25:44 -0400 Message-ID: <009201befe1e$5527d3a0$9b51ccd1@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: <199909131804.LAA20666@zeus.directcon.net> Subject: Re: H-COST:Cartridge pleating question Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:29:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" ----- Original Message ----- > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > I was at a costuming workshop for 1850's work dresses this weekend, and a > woman demonstrated cartridge pleating in a way that I had never seen before. > She held two or three needles at the same time between her thumb and finger, > and stitched the multiple rows all at the same time. When another > participant said she couldn't get the hang of it, and could she just stitch > the rows seperately, the instructor said no, that wouldn't work. I (rather > impolitically) said of course it would, I do it all the time, she said > "Well, it might work, but it wouldn't be cartridge pleating!" and that this > was the only historically accurate way to do it. > That's rediculous. If you were looking at the finished work, without having seen the process, how in the world would you even be able to tell if the stitches had been made using this woman's method or individually? Even if she does have an authentic historical source for her methods it's doubtful that _everyone_ always did it in *exactly* that manner. >This same person, BTW, doesn't think I should be drafting my own patterns. >She wants me to use Past Patterns or some other company's pattern, >"because >that way it's historically accurate". I find it very hard to let her know >that I know what I'm doing without sounding like I'm bragging. She knows I >teach classes in costume of the period, and she's seen my work, but all she >does is make comments on what's different, such as the fact that I'm wearing >full stays, while she's wearing sensible stays. I can't figure out if this >is ignorance, jealousy, oblivion, or what, and I really don't know how to >deal with the situation. Any ideas? This may be violating my "if you can't say anything nice" policy, but, great font of psychological wisdom that I am ... the poor woman sounds like a "know it all" who feels threatened by anyone with knowledge in "HER field of expertise". The shame is she probably comes off sounding silly to everyone. Dr. Kerrie Brothers (who is spending much too much time at her desk now, as evidenced by this sudden increase in posting. ;-) ) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 14:25:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06208 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:25:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11093; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:42:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24972 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:39:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24960 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:39:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem79.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.207] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11Qbwe-0002Ye-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:39:21 +0100 Message-ID: <001301befe1f$afa88210$01065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <005701befafe$f059b280$22aca0d1@j9g8x8> <00a701befb17$9a02b1c0$36065cc3@herimats> <37DD47B8.4EB97482@thibault.org> Subject: Re: H-COST: UK US leather was Shoe dyeing question long whinge Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:38:58 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Yes; I think the term comes from the process actually used to give the final appearrance, as opposed to the wire brush system used on turned leather to produce " normal" suede. However not being one to lose the oppurtunity to climb on to my favourite band wagon..- Our Us members as a whole , and especially those who work in leather would be appalled at the cost of leather or leather products in this country, as well as some of the amazingly awful products that we are offered. The US has lots of cows and they are being killed and eaten in their millions and leather is a side issue to the production of steaks and burgers consumed in large quantities by US citizens. In the UK many people do not eat beef at all, and to many a steak is a special treat. As a rule our beef is produced for export and is very expensive. With our recent problems over mad cow disease there have been some weeks when no animals have been slaughtered in any given week. This of course has led to problems with the supply of leather. Most of our large shoemakers now have the uppers mass produced in the third world and imported for making up ( if they say Made in Britain.) or imported completely. Leather is also imported but it is not an economic process. To the craftworker or costumer working on a small scale the situation is almost unworkable. It is actually cheaper to go out and buy a brand new leather coat, made in the Far East and sold through huge specialist Discount houses than it would be to buy the leather to make the same thing in this country. If you could find it that is. With the industry moving abroad , the usual surplus going to the craftworker has dried up. What there is available is all chrome tanned with its terrible grey-white colour on the back and cut edges Buying fine english produced (oak tanned; if you really want to go overboard and wait years for delivery) leather for high quality riding boots is no problem when the final cost is near to 1000 pounds. Saddlers and harness makers however have more difficulty and cost are soaring. I know of two who are currently travelling to the continent for supplies. For shoemaking a pair of best leather throughsoles are now well over ten pounds. About six or seven years ago I ordered over 300 pounds worth of green and yellow leather from a very well known supplier (in both UK and US) What I actually received was "skiver" (taken off the back of good leather when thicknessing) to which a heavy almost eighth of an inch layer of a plastic like material had been sprayed on. These day I can only imagine that it is much worse. I know that there is still a lot of leather that has been "sun dried" and badly cured in the "Third world" finding its way into craft shops. Remember that the final use of leather has to be known before the cureing process can commence. When it comes to leather you US citizens are really lucky, next time you buy some think of us poor Brits. Dave +++++++++++++++ L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters > -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > > The folks at Dexter Shoes (excellent shoes made in Maine) report that > there are many types of "nubuck." Some of them are entirely of leather; > clearly some, presumably cheaper by other companies, are leather-plus-other-stuff. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 14:37:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06214 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:37:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12980; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:54:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA27869 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:50:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ecom.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27850 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:50:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port122.imag.net [204.244.111.122]) by ecom.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA28491 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:54:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <011e01befe21$6bc067a0$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Question about 10th century pants for men Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:51:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Hello I looked at the pattern - they're a bit different than the pair I worked from. The pair loaned to me for reference have a separate calf section that is tighter than the upper legs - quite a bit tighter, and harder to fit. Would that type of pants also be appropriate for the waistband/front seam shown in your pattern? Wonderful site! Very helpful and informative! Zelda Who has added learning Norwegian to the *to do* list -----Original Message----- From: Marc Carlson To: h-costume@indra.com Date: September 13, 1999 12:18 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Question about 10th century pants for men > >-Poster: Marc Carlson > >Zelda wrote: >>But still learning, though. I'm working on a pair of pants (first ever pair ? > >The Skjoldehamn trousers (a little bit of which can be seen at >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/cloth/skolde3.html ) are >drawstring >pants with a bit of trim around the bottom cuff, and about six inches up >the outside >leg. > >The Skjodehamn find (consisting of kyrtle, shirt, trousers, shoes (lost?) >and knife handle) >was discovered in 1936 in a bog on the Island of Andøya, in Veserålen in >northern Norway. >It may date to sometime between 1000-1210 (based on Carbon dating although >the style of his >kyrtle would suggest a later date of 13th-14th c). There is some debate >about whether he >was Norse or Sami and whether or not that would matter to the style of >clothing. > >If you want more information there's an article on this clothing (which >SOMEone left off >his bibliography) Gjessing, G. "Skjoldehamndrakten, En Senmiddeelaldersk >mannsdrakt" in >Viking v.2 (1938) pp.27-81. And I'm thinking there's one in a much later >volume of Viking >as well, but I can't find the citation at the moment. Yes, they are in >Norwegian, but you >get used to that after a while... > >Marc > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 14:43:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06228 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:43:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14288; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:01:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA29707 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:58:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ecom.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29689 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:58:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port122.imag.net [204.244.111.122]) by ecom.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA00606 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:02:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <012901befe22$80bf0ca0$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: metallic embroidery Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:59:33 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Hello, I have just started looking into this, too. So far, I have found that the real metals were actually used, but were spun so finely that they were usually wrapped around a linen or cotton thread so they could be worked without constantly breaking. How far back this method goes, I don't know yet. I do have a Matadors jacket from a turn of the century (1900 :) ) costume company that is covered in metallic thread done in this manner. I have seen modern embroidery done on Punjabi tunics with this as well. Personally, I use the plain DMC gold, silver or copper threads at this point, simply due to lack of skill at this time. Zelda -----Original Message----- From: Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank To: Historic Costume Date: September 13, 1999 12:28 PM Subject: H-COST: (No Subject) > >-Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" > >Hi, I have a question that probably sounds really stupid to you gus, but I'm curious. Way back when, was most metallic embroidery done with actual metal? and if so, when you guys make authentic costumes do you use actual metal for this or do you use the "silver" & "gold" thread you can buy now? I've seen several peices in my life which had this wire type embroidery, of course all tarnished and in general in bad shape. Mostly on shoes and purses for some reason. I've read about detail work quite a bit but have never seen anything about metallic embroidery. I was just wondering what they used? was is wire of a smaller gage than beading wire (like they use for jewelry) or what? again I appologize if this is a stupid question. > >--- >Ginnaphure > >ICQ# 41340093 > >"Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." > > > >Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 14:45:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06232 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:45:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14425; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:01:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA29854 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:59:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [209.246.15.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29836 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:59:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA07328 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:59:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id MAA02025; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:59:08 -0700 Message-ID: <37DD495E.AAD770B@us.oracle.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:58:38 -0400 From: Elizabeth Jones Organization: Oracle Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Mahoitered sleeve Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------35A8988E6E975D5CF0D9D255" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Jones This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------35A8988E6E975D5CF0D9D255 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Margo Anderson wrote; ..."the early Elizabethan 'mahoitered' style of sleeve " -I've never heard this term. What is a mahoitered sleeve? "Mahoitre" (That's with a ^ over the "i"): French term denoting large padded shoulders. Basically comes from the extreme look of the mid 1400's - really huge shoulders on the man's doublet, fur trimmed, pleated, think Charles VII. About Margos' cartridge pleating dilemma: I've never heard of such a thing, but commend someone coordinated enough to handle three needles at once. I don't understand the logic, and would ask her to show you some reference material supporting it (in a nice, non challenging way of course!) But as regards to the instruction to use commercial patterns - that seems totally contradictory. First of all, they're not made for an individual's body, and custom fit patters would always be preferred to "off the shelf". Secondly, most commercial patterns seem to be faulty. I suppose that this stems from the sales part of the business, or from the desire not to complicate a mass audience pattern with complicated techniques or instructions. I blatantly disagree with her, and support you in your disagreement! Regards, Liz Jones --------------35A8988E6E975D5CF0D9D255 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ljones.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Elizabeth Jones Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ljones.vcf" begin:vcard n:;Elizabeth Jones x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr;dom;quoted-printable:;;Oracle Corporation =0D=0A100 Summit Lake Drive;Valhalla;NY;10595; org:Global Networks version:2.1 email;internet:ljones@us.oracle.com title:Senior Project Manager tel;fax:203-267-5856 tel;work:914-773-8169 x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Elizabeth Jones end:vcard --------------35A8988E6E975D5CF0D9D255-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 14:49:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06239 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:49:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15601; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:06:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA01358 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:04:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01343 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:04:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem20.barney.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.20] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11QcKs-0006qz-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:04:23 +0100 Message-ID: <003601befe23$2f440550$01065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <199909131804.LAA20666@zeus.directcon.net> Subject: Re: H-COST:Cartridge pleating question Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:04:02 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > . I find it very hard to let her know > that I know what I'm doing without sounding like I'm bragging. She knows I > teach classes in costume of the period, and she's seen my work, but all she > does is make comments on what's different, such as the fact that I'm wearing > full stays, while she's wearing sensible stays. I can't figure out if this > is ignorance, jealousy, oblivion, or what, and I really don't know how to > deal with the situation. Any ideas? > I dont teach anymore, partly as a result of changes to our system as regards parttime lecturing but also for a very personal reason. I always had difficulty because of shyness and when called upon to seem knowledgable had great difficulty because of self doubt.. Well to tell you the truth I turned into somebody else , some kind of monster , a sort of protective shield.. Knowing that there was somebody in the class that might know something was a big frightener that would have me shaking at the knees and on one occasion led me to real nervous sickness. After every class I used to hide in a dark room with a pillow over my head, reliving every moment , everyword I had said, every comment I had made and turn myself into a quivering jelly of embarrassment. Theatre studies wasnt so bad , they were all youngsters, you could tell em anything (ggg). Teaching Hand- shoemaking to a class made up of supervisor/:managers from shoe factories, plus some people that had their own shoemaking business or who worked in orthopaedic shoe departments , was a shortlived nighmare. I finally gave up after a friend studying teaching technique videotaped my class; I thought about changing my name or wearing a bag on my head, but settled on Prozac. So maybe you should just add "------scared" to your list. Well you asked for any ideas ; this might help. Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 14:50:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06245 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:50:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15685; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:07:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA01475 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:05:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA01424 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:04:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:04:28 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:05:03 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep!/Laughing Moon Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Harvey Georgia > >From: AnnoraK@aol.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Revenge of the Quiet: Meep!/Laughing Moon > >Re: Georgia's question about the Laughing Moon corset pattern -- I built my >first corset last month using this pattern. I made the Dore Straight Seam >out of coutil, with an outside layer of moire. I followed their suggestions > >of making a muslin and doing two test fittings. I had to trim back the >underarm areas about 1/2" - 3/4", but other than that, it went together >smoothly and easily, even with feline interference. But, then I was sorta >paranoid about screwing the whole thing up, so did everything by the rules, >tracing out all lines and markings and all the other stuff that I usually >don't do with the rest of my projects. > >One suggestion, though -- trace out the pattern onto butcher paper, if you >weren't planning to already. >-- > >Thanks Jen. > >One other question - has anybody made the pattern *with* the gores? I'm very >busty, and very hourglass, so I'll have to be making that one :-) > >Cheers >Georgia Yes, I'm busty too - and hippy. I made the gored corset at Costume College 97 in the class taught by Ms. Laughing Moon, JoAnn Bowser. It wasn't my first corset, but the easiest one I've ever made. The pattern was clear and directions are complete. JoAnn had made kits for everyone with everything but the bones included ( a very nice touch - we were all working with her specified materials and production went easier for that). She also managed to have every possible size of her pattern available in muslin so we spent a bit of time figuring out - with her help - exactly what size we were and with her suggesting fitting changes ("Maybe you might want to add some extra in the gore for those extra curves"). I highly suggest taking her class if ever you can. I agree with the earlier poster - take the time to do EVERY step EXACTLY the way the instructions are written. It will save you time and money in the long run. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 14:58:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06276 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:57:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17001; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:14:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03184 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:12:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03169 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:12:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id NAA13249; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DD5B09.3844BC2@serv.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:14:01 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes-cleavage References: <199909131917.MAA28830@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > >In the Uk ; gentlemen's cleavage is shown at the rear , below the waist, as > >a result if the trouser being worn on the hips. > In the US, we call that look "plumber's butt". I wouldn't call it an > important part of our culture, though. Maybe it depends on what part of the US you live in because here in my neck of the woods we call it T.V. Repairman Pants. *GGGGG* Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:00:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06282 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:00:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17613; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:16:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03730 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:14:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03719 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:14:26 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6DUHa07454 (4403) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:13:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <14fe2857.250eb4dc@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:13:16 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST:Cartridge pleating question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 9/13/99 6:09:08 PM !!!First Boot!!!, margo@directcon.net writes: << I can't figure out if this is ignorance, jealousy, oblivion, or what, and I really don't know how to deal with the situation. Any ideas? Margo Anderson >> My guess is none of the above....you probably make her feel threatened and unessential. I do not know how "they" cartridge pleated, and actually could rather care less. Personally, I "know" how "I" cartridge pleat, and the authenticity of technique thereof is of no consequence.(or very little) As long as what I have created matches what "they" created...why fuss about using 2,3,27000 needles at a time. I think this lady is a bit on the bonkers side, but I don't know her. Chas _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:08:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06305 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:08:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19222; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:25:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06096 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:23:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06081 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:23:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990913202321.HECZ22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:23:21 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:22:31 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: metallic embroidery From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990913202321.HECZ22396.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" Metallic thread embroidery is quite common in India - even today. I was in a factory in south India where they produced this thread. Gold or silver is turned into a very thin wire which is wrapped around a cotton or silk thread core. This is known as *zari*. There are 3 basic types: Gold, silver, and silver which has been gilded to look like gold. And of course they are valued accordingly. There is also a technique knows as *badla* this is actual gold, silver or gilt wire used for embroidery - i.e. it is not wapped around a core and of course is more expensive. Metallic embroidery is used mostly for wedding sarees these days. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: "The Rogue" >To: >Subject: Re: H-COST: metallic embroidery >Date: Mon, Sep 13, 1999, 12:59 PM > > >-Poster: "The Rogue" > >Hello, > >I have just started looking into this, too. So far, I have found that the >real metals were actually used, but were spun so finely that they were >usually wrapped around a linen or cotton thread so they could be worked >without constantly breaking. How far back this method goes, I don't know >yet. I do have a Matadors jacket from a turn of the century (1900 :) ) >costume company that is covered in metallic thread done in this manner. I >have seen modern embroidery done on Punjabi tunics with this as well. > >Personally, I use the plain DMC gold, silver or copper threads at this >point, simply due to lack of skill at this time. >Zelda > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank >To: Historic Costume >Date: September 13, 1999 12:28 PM >Subject: H-COST: (No Subject) > > >> >>-Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" >> >>Hi, I have a question that probably sounds really stupid to you gus, but >I'm curious. Way back when, was most metallic embroidery done with actual >metal? and if so, when you guys make authentic costumes do you use actual >metal for this or do you use the "silver" & "gold" thread you can buy now? >I've seen several peices in my life which had this wire type embroidery, of >course all tarnished and in general in bad shape. Mostly on shoes and purses >for some reason. I've read about detail work quite a bit but have never seen >anything about metallic embroidery. I was just wondering what they used? was >is wire of a smaller gage than beading wire (like they use for jewelry) or >what? again I appologize if this is a stupid question. >> >>--- >>Ginnaphure >> >>ICQ# 41340093 >> >>"Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the >stake." >> >> >> >>Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:11:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06328 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:11:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19590; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:28:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06671 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:26:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA06660 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:26:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:26:00 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37D92A6F.26A9023B@pacbell.net> References: <37D73BA0.6C6C6B53@bc.sympatico.ca> <199909101510.JAA13174@email.boisestate.edu> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:26:35 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Leather doublet questions Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lynn Downward Linda, Dietmar sent you some very important suggestions on sewing leather. His suggestion for seams is how I was taught to work with leather. HOWEVER, he didn't mention (and neither did my first teacher) that Barge cement is very dangerous to use. Make certain that you're using it outside with the wind blowing the fumes away from you. This is the day to send the kids and animals inside the house for safety. A rubber mallet is usually the way to go when pounding the seams. Lynn >-Poster: Dietmar > >Greetings, > >Linda wrote: > >> I've never sewn on real leather before. I've heard that I need a leather >> sewing machine needle (this is very supple leather and should go through >> the machine ok). I've also heard to use longer stitches than I would with >> woven fabric. > >Leather needles are triangular in cross section which helps cut through the >leather without stretching it. Longer stitches will help make the garment >stronger. If the stitches are too close together, the stitches can rip out, >and you'll end up with a perfect pattern in leather minus the seam allowance. > >> I'm thinking about using some slashing and pinking to add interest and line >> it with a bright, contrasting color to show off the slashes. Any suggestions >> on the slashes? > >I've heard of people using a sharp chisel to make quick consistent slashes. >I've also heard of someone using a drill to make consistent round holes >through many layered pieces at once. (Although, I'm not sure I'd recommend >this) I also understand that it's a good idea to punch a round hole at the end >of long slashes so that the leather is less likely to tear at the ends. > >> Should I keep them smaller (1/2 inch or so big) so that the leather won't >> stretch? Seems to me (the book is at home so I can't reference it now) that >> the pictures I've seen in Janet Arnold show the pinking and slashing to be >> fairly small. > >Consider that the more holes that you make, the more stretch that you will >have. This is true whether you have a handful of large slashes or a myriad or >tiny slashes. In Germany, slashes were often larger than in England, but both >were done. > >> As far as seams go, I was planning to use a modified flat felled seam >> when sewing leather to leather - sew right sides together, trim one >> seam allowance to about 1/4 inch, press both seam allowances in the same >> direction with the longer one on top, then top stitch in place (just like >> regular flat felled only the raw edge isn't turned under to keep bulk down). >> Anyone have experience, suggestions on seaming leather? > >I'd recommend that you sew the seams and hammer the seams open to either side >and glue the seam allowance (1/4" or so) down with barge cement. > >> For sewing leather to fabric lining, I was planning to just stitch as usual >> (with longer stitch length). Will this work? > >Depends on how you are lining it. Is it a bag lining, or are you lining >particular areas only? I'm not sure how you would work a bag lining. Sewing >the lining around each cut out area is the best method, but incredibly >tedious. > >> I assume I don't need to worry about grainline with leather, or do I? >> I know that with synthetic suede (Ultrasuede), you can turn the pattern >> pieces anyway you want. > >There is no grain line per se, but there are differing amounts of stretch in >different parts of the hide. Some hides will have stretch marks that run in a >particular direction. You will also want to work around blemishes in the >surface of the hide. > >> I plan to use three layers: lining, interlining, and leather. Usually >> when I make a doublet or bodice, I treat the lining and interlining as >> one unit. Would it be better to use the interlining (which is the layer >> that will show under the leather) and the leather as one unit instead. >> Or does it matter? > >That seems like an unnecessary number of layers. I see most leather doublets >as unlined. I can't see a satisfactory way of lining with that many layers, >because the leather will stretch in different ways than the fabric lining. >Leather stretches in the heat and shrinks in the cold, but the fabric won't. I >guess that I'd rather line areas of slashing than try to line the whole thing. >Perhaps you can make horizontal rows of slashing and sew the lining down with >a horizontal seam between rows. The slashes don't have to be horizontal, but >arranged in rows horizontally, such as: >---------- >////////// >---------- >Of course, the same thing could be done vertically. > >Any other caveats? > >I don't know of anything off the top of my head, but I'll think about it over >the weekend and see if I come up with anything...and see if anyone else >has input. > >Good luck, > >Dietmar > > >"Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; > over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:17:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06349 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:17:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21047; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:34:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08379 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:31:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08370 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:31:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id NAA14112; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:32:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DD5FA1.78791DA5@serv.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:33:37 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Cartridge pleating question References: <14fe2857.250eb4dc@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > My guess is none of the above....you probably make her feel threatened and > unessential. I venture to say that just because the instructor felt this way doesn't mean that Margo (or any other student) makes them fell that way. Some instructors aren't comfortable with being questioned period. Two possibilities are that they either aren't confident about their own knowledge and couldn't back up their claims and the other is that some folks do have to know it all. Whatever the reason it doesn't make her claim accurate. While some folks might well have cartidge pleated with three needles all at once, I doubt all folks in period did. Preposterous. I always get a warning ding in my head when someone says this is how they did it and this is the only way. I suddenly doubt either their research or their thinking. Any seamstress who claims that purchased patterns are better than personally fitted patterns and that that is how the way it was done in period doesn't know much I wager. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:18:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06353 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:18:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21269; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:35:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08720 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:32:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08697 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:32:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from goochy.excite.com ([199.172.152.233]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19990913203204.KRK25470.fortune@goochy.excite.com> for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:32:04 -0700 From: "Jennifer McNitt" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #567 Message-Id: <937254725.24496.83@excite.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 13:32:05 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 163.231.237.21 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Jennifer McNitt" I recently ordered a Uniquely You dress form from Handcock Fabrics for around $120. I paid the full price since there were no sales at the time I ordered it. The form was $40-$50 more at JoAnns. Jen ------------------- From: Margo Anderson Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 13:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: H-COST: Dress forms - -Poster: Margo Anderson >I am thinking of getting the uniquely you dress form as well. But from >Greenberg & Hammer, who lists them in their catalog for about $200 instead >of $250, ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:21:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06360 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:21:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21815; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:38:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09405 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:35:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09354 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:35:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FI000J3FMHQD9@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:34:38 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:42:44 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Question about 10th century pants for men In-reply-to: <199909131951.NAA28157@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990913154244.0079fb50@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson Zelda Wrote: >I looked at the pattern - they're a bit different than the pair I worked >from. The pair loaned to me for reference have a separate calf section that >is tighter than the upper legs - quite a bit tighter, and harder to fit. >Would that type of pants also be appropriate for the waistband/front seam >shown in your pattern? It depends on what your ultimate goal is (I'm about to utter heresy here...) If your goal is to get something reasonably close to accurate, that you can learn with, and won't embarrass you as your first attempt in this area, then sure, use what you have and see how you might adapt it to make it appear similar-ish to the *only* example of which I have heard of trousers from this period. Since it's the only example, it can't tell us about other styles and fashions anyway. (Conversely, MOST of the people who will give you a hard time about it not being absolutely perfect have probably never heard of these trousers anyway.) On the other hand, if you want to be *absolutely* accurate, then the examples you have in hand might not be the best examples to use (unless they have documentation I've not heard of, in which case I want it ASAP :) ). Moreover, I'll see about digging out my copy to see if I can tell you anything about the fabric (content, thread count, etc). AND you'll want to get the article yourself. Really, I can't tell you what's appropriate for what you make since I don't know exactly where you want to go with it. All I can tell you is what they pulled from the ground (or in this case, swamp). >Wonderful site! Very helpful and informative! Thank you. I keep hoping to make it and the shoe site better, but "helpful" get's me past the hard spots :) >Zelda >Who has added learning Norwegian to the *to do* list Go for Swedish first. It's a much more 'user friendly" kind of language... Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:23:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06365 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:23:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22314; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:41:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA10193 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:38:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10174 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:38:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA14486 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:38:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA20094 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:39:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:39:05 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes-cleavage In-Reply-To: <37DD5B09.3844BC2@serv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Ah, the joys of linguistics...I've always heard it referred to as "Workman's Cleft". Drea On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Merouda the True of Bornover wrote: > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > > > >In the Uk ; gentlemen's cleavage is shown at the rear , below the waist, as > > >a result if the trouser being worn on the hips. > > In the US, we call that look "plumber's butt". I wouldn't call it an > > important part of our culture, though. > > Maybe it depends on what part of the US you live in because here in my neck of > the woods we call it T.V. Repairman Pants. > > *GGGGG* > Cynthia > -- > Cynthia Long > Merouda the True of Bornover > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of An Tir > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:46:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06440 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:46:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26249; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:01:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA15349 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:58:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15342 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:58:43 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6OZFa22756 (3926) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:58:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8f8b07d3.250ebf5f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:58:07 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: metallic embroidery To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com Here's my two cents During the Rennaissance and before, metallic embroidery not only existed, but was very commonly found on items of the wealthy. There were two ways (two ways I know of any how) of creating the gold thread....Since Gold is ductile, it could be drawn into very thin strands....however, if one used more than just a small amount (ie, cloth of gold) It would be very heavy. So Gold was welded to silver to form a lighter weight alloy....it was then pounded into sheets of gold leif. It was then cut into very very thin strips and enveloped around saffron dyed linned threads and wound on a spool. This technique was called "spun gold" The step by step instructions for spun gold can be found in the book On Divers Arts....which is a set of treatises written in the Medieval period on various art forms. Hope this helps Chas (unlurking with a vengance) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:47:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06444 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:47:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26972; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:04:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA16254 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:02:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16241 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:02:15 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6NJSa07454 (3926) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:01:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2e3dea1e.250ec027@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:01:27 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST:Cartridge pleating question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 9/13/99 8:33:24 PM !!!First Boot!!!, keltia@serv.net writes: << I venture to say that just because the instructor felt this way doesn't mean that Margo (or any other student) makes them fell that way. >> Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that Margo intentionally made her feel this way. Some people just feel threatened when they think someone might know as much as they do on a certain subject...I certainly didn't mean to imply that Margo was doing this intentionally..thank you for drawing that to my attention as my wording may have mis communicated what I intended to say. Charles _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:57:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06450 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:57:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28845; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:14:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA18924 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:12:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18917 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:12:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.212] (ell157.acadia.net [205.217.218.212]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA05808 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:20:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:10:57 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: fulling wool Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Urine was used in fulling and feltmaking to change the ph of the solution (since they didn't have detergents), which helps to lift the cuticles on the fibers and thereby making them latch together more firmly. Animal dung is used in some areas of the world for the same reason. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 15:57:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06454 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:57:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28886; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:15:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA18987 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:12:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18973 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:12:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.212] (ell157.acadia.net [205.217.218.212]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA05840 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:20:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:11:08 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: metallic threads Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Yes, both silver and gold (and gold-washed silver) was used for metallic embroidery. The metal was pounded and folded repeatedly, and then pounded very, very thin, and cut into narrow strips (called lamella). The narrow strips were wound evenly around thread (usually dyed silk), so it's not really "spun." This type was used extensively in the 16, 17 & 18c. Contrary to popular belief, it was not done with wire (and lamella was not simply flattened wire). De borah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 16:16:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06499 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:16:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02384; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:33:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23532 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:30:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23519 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:30:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.190] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Qdg2-0001V0-00; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:30:18 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:56:25 -0700 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: A Tale of 4 sewing machines In-Reply-To: <00a101befe0f$f2261860$4aedfea9@gunsafes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I'm reading several lists at once, among them h-costume and SCA Garb. I'd just finished reading a post from a lady who was wanted some explicit help constructing authentic Viking/Verangian Guard-style pants...then I read another: Sounds like you are in desperate need of a Viking. They never need oiling and they are pretty much unjammable ... ... At which point, I was curled up over my keyboard laughing... I'm sorry...I had to share that...and as you see--it was not either post, but my misinterpretation, and all because of the commonality between the two posts of the word Viking... Carol / Gra/inne, who thinks maybe it's time to go do something else for a while... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 16:16:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06500 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:16:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02389; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:33:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23502 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:30:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23491 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:30:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.190] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Qdfy-0001V0-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:30:14 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:31:00 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Wool Question In-Reply-To: <37DD19EC.81751297@serv.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 08:36 AM 09/13/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover >Gabardine is not a fulled wool but a very fine weave. My dictionary says that >it is a worsted cotton, wool, or rayon twill cloth. Don't know what they might >have called it in the 14th century but twill weaves are certainly appropriate >for that time. Very appropriate in fact. Thank you, Merouda. I was wondering, because I think of fulled wool as heavy, felted stuff...and the gabardines I've used haven't been, but that was the term the lady used to me...so I echoed it. I'm used to the worsted twill mostly. Gra/inne / Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 16:25:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06525 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:25:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03165; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:38:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA24949 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:35:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24918 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:35:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn39.pm3-1.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.58]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA21717 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:35:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <003d01befe31$88a63880$3af0a2d0@default> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes-cleavage Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:47:07 -0600 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" "Bad Moon A-rising......" sorry. Liadain > Ah, the joys of linguistics...I've always heard it referred to as > "Workman's Cleft". > > Drea > > On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Merouda the True of Bornover wrote: > > > > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > > > > > >In the Uk ; gentlemen's cleavage is shown at the rear , below the waist, as > > > >a result if the trouser being worn on the hips. > > > In the US, we call that look "plumber's butt". I wouldn't call it an > > > important part of our culture, though. > > > > Maybe it depends on what part of the US you live in because here in my neck of > > the woods we call it T.V. Repairman Pants. > > > > *GGGGG* > > Cynthia > > -- > > Cynthia Long > > Merouda the True of Bornover > > Barony of Madrone > > Kingdom of An Tir > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 16:29:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06532 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:29:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04346; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:46:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26860 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:44:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mb06.swip.net (mb06.swip.net [193.12.122.210]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26846 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:44:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [212.151.169.174] (d212-151-169-174.swipnet.se [212.151.169.174]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA23737 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:44:03 +0200 (MET DST) X-Sender: md21199@dredd.swip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <010201befa59$19076160$de3daccf@e4c2n6> References: <19990908233456.19196.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:44:42 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ninni Pettersson Subject: Re: H-COST:How many list members? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ninni Pettersson At 01.20 +0100 99-09-09, Penny Ladnier wrote:> >Are our lurkers introverts???? > >Alright, introverts, stop pausing, and start talking. Let's make Thursday, >9/9/99, Extrovert's Strike Day. We stop talking for ONE day, and let the >introverts speak! We are listening now, its your forum! So *this* is why I had over 500 mails waiting for me after I had been away for only 5 days :-) Mostly I lurk and learn on this list, though last autumn I were rather active asking a lot of questions, when trying to make a Tudor costume for a doll. Presently I mostly send the occasional post about the non-existing progress on my planned development of the web-page for the doll costume :-) So far, I've finally got the new pictures into the computer. Now it only remains to actually write and design the bloody thing! And since my bad back prevents me from spending too much time in front of the computer, this will probably take another 6 months. And that damn back prevents me from doing much sewing either :-( Well, that's enough grumbling from me on this topic. Back to my mail back-log, still another 149 messages to read . . . /Ninni Pettersson -------------------------------------------------------------- Ninni M Pettersson -- Stockholm, Sweden -- vidumavi@swipnet.se Tudor Doll Costume -- http://home9.swipnet.se/~w-93136/doll1.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 16:35:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06544 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:35:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05470; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:53:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28559 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:50:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from email.boisestate.edu (email.boisestate.edu [132.178.16.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28533 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:50:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cobfac.boisestate.edu (cobfac.boisestate.edu [132.178.51.3]) by email.boisestate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15272 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:52:08 -0600 Message-Id: <199909132152.PAA15272@email.boisestate.edu> Received: from COBFAC/SpoolDir by cobfac.boisestate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 13 Sep 99 15:50:22 -0700 Received: from SpoolDir by COBFAC (Mercury 1.44); 13 Sep 99 15:49:54 -0700 From: "Linda Yordy" Organization: College of Business & Economics To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:49:47 -0700 Subject: H-COST: Re: Leather doublet questions Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <37D92A6F.26A9023B@pacbell.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Linda Yordy" Thanks to all for the advice. I have a Spanish surcote to make before I can start the doublet. In the meantime, I'll do some testing on a scrap of the leather. One suggestion I got came from someone here in town. He said if my machine can't handle the leather, to cut out the pieces and mark them, then take them to someone he knows that will sew them on an industrial machine for a fee. Thanks again, Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 16:43:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06551 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:43:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06999; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:01:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00661 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:58:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.vci.net (smtp.vci.net [207.162.160.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00644 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:58:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vci.net (pah-c1-251.vci.net [207.162.162.251] (may be forged)) by smtp.vci.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA14941 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:58:27 -0500 Message-ID: <37DD7421.6C27DDB0@vci.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:01:05 -0500 From: "schuck@vci.net" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr-FR,de,ru,es-AR,sv MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: metallic embroidery References: <199909132031.OAA08425@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "schuck@vci.net" My $.02 You can embroider with metals, but you may find you need to handle the threads delicately, especially the threads that are made completely of metal. You can also incorporate metal in your designs by "couching" it. You lay the gold wire on the fabric (which should be strong and firm) and secure the wire to the fabric using overcast stitches with thread of a similar color or contrasting, depending on the effect you desire. There are very useful directions for sewing with gold in _The Complete Encyclopedia of Needlework_ by Therese de Dillmont. It was originally published in 1884 and has 700 pgs of info about whitework, linen embroidery, applique, crewel, tapestry, lacemaking, and more. It is one of my favorite handwork books. The methods are not organized by date or place of origin (she just tells you how do the needlework), but I think that you can probably recreate the look of just about any historical embroidery or lace detail using the instructions in this book. jb <<<>>> - --- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 16:45:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06555 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:45:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07351; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:03:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01077 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:00:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01065 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:00:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.net (ip86.an3-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.14.86]) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02162 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:00:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DD7465.B52025C2@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:02:17 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Wool question Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Laurel Wilson > I think that wools weren't commonly heavily fulled till the 14th C > -- properly felt was made from unspun wool. Somebody wrote: I suspect that fulled wool was in period long before the 14th century. I don't know what was happening earlier, but by the eleventh century, when the horizontal loom was being used, fulling was an extremely important part of the textile production process, to the point where mechanical fulling milles were being recorded, even that early, although the process remained basically hand done for the most part. Most wools, broadcloth especially, was extremely heavily fulled, to the point where - you couldn't see any weaving pattern, so it was mostly done in plain weave - fabrics might lose up to 30% in length, 35-40% in width, or up to 60% in surface area. After fulling and various other processes, the nap would be raised and then sheared off. This process might be repeated more than once for fine cloths such as 'scarlet' (the finest and most expensive woolen cloth, not a color). The result was a cloth that was heavy and practically impermeable. Also, really good cloths might be raised and sheared repeatedly during the course of their life as clothing--royal wardrbe accounts often have records of payments made to shearers--which shows you how thick the cloth must have been. To anybody who's interested in the processes: a book called *The Dictionary of the Middle Ages*, edited by Joseph R. Strayer, has two articles in its "Scandinavian Languages to Textiles, Islamic" volume. Both are by John Munro, an economic historian with a special interest in textiles; one is on Textile Technology and the other on Textile Workers. The shrinkage figures I gave above come from the first one. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 16:51:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06564 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:51:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08146; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:08:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA02210 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:05:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.worldaccessnet.com (IDENT:0XsiuRlBcFrhizGFwPOEHWnw2PrcY64n@worldaccessnet.com [206.190.139.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA02187 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:05:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by vortex.worldaccessnet.com id m11QeDn-000dVEC; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:05:11 -0700 (PDT) (Smail3.2.0.91#4) Received: from max6-06.worldaccessnet.com(206.190.132.154), claiming to be "sidne" via SMTP by worldaccessnet.com, id smtpdAAAa005GT; Mon Sep 13 15:05:00 1999 Message-ID: <002201befe33$f0238740$9a84bece@sidne> From: "Sidne Kneeland" To: Subject: H-COST: h-costume, How many members? 384 ! Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:02:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Sidne Kneeland" Greetings, I am a sometimes poster, sometimes lurker. I also read other lists and follow what I can, learn where I can. I hate to burst the bubble of having everyone check-in, so go ahead and keep on. On using the command to the majordomo - the listserve's origin, 'who h-costume' I received a list of 384 people receiving this list via the listserve. No, I wouldn't spam the list and I hope there anti-spam measures set up. There are some commands that listserve lists and other email lists have in common. This one does not really carry its back files/archives, and has no other files to access. For more info on list servers and stuff, I found Patrick Crispin's articles Roadmap 'Guide to the Internet' very useful: http://www.nmusd.k12.ca.us/Resources/Roadmap/welcome.html Sidne "Psychoanalysis is expensive, bubble wrap is cheap. You chose. " _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 16:56:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06568 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:56:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09048; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:13:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03468 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:10:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com (ms3.phoenix.com [134.122.1.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA03456 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:10:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:16:41 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: What to do with a Uniquely You Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:11:00 -0700 Message-ID: <000001befe13$5785c1d0$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" >OK, so who knows of a terrific dress form that 's out there, that's easily adjustable between two women's sizes - my friend and I wanna share, but she's 4 inches taller and thinner! >Am I dreaming??? Do not get anything *except* an Uniquely You. They're fantastic! Expensive, tho'. Here's how to share: buy 2 covers for the dummy. When it's your turn w/ the dummy, take your friends cover off, put your cover on. If you're both in the size range of 1 dummy, you can share. If in doubt, buy the next size larger. She'll squish. Check the under bust size, too. They dont publish this number, but if you have a small ribcage for your size, this can end up too small. Then your close-fitting dresses cant be made on the dummy. Have a Very Experienced fitter do your cover & your friend's. Uniquely You's corset up marvelously. Some people have 2 or more covers; one for each era they costume. I.e. you might make 1 to fit your natural, modern shape & another that's for the "highbreasted" flat-front corsetted eras. Some modifications: I have reshaped mine somewhat to compensate for protruding shoulder blades & forward thrust shoulders. I cut off the shoulder back & slipped the excess foam under the cover into the shoulderblade area. I find that the neck is quite far forward (I have very vertical posture), but havent figured out how I want to adjust this. Collared jackets & highnecked gowns are best made right on the person rather than the dummy. Some people add "birdseed boobs" to mimic the movement upwards that natural ones have when corseted. Take a pair of panty hose, snip off toes, fill toes w/ "sufficient" birdseed, stitch shut. Slit the underbreast of the dummy, insert seedpouch, put "highbreasted" cover on dummy. If this makes you squeamish, just tuck a little quilt batt between the cover & the dummy till you get the correct shape. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 16:58:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06572 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:58:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09455; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:15:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA04029 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:13:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04017 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:13:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([212.250.194.186]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990913221201.ZNY15527.mta2-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:12:01 +0100 Message-ID: <37DDDC13.318B@virgin.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:24:35 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: (No Subject) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank wrote: > > -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" > > Silver and gold have always been and still are used for ecclesiastical and regalia decoration, Whether it be actual sewing threads or fine 'tubes' of netal which is couched down . Unfortunately the percentage of metal used is a lot less these days than it was even at the end of the war (only 9% today). It is the same with military lace. As I specialise in making repro uniforms this is something I deal with on a day to day basis and get my supplies from the MOD suppliers in England direct although alot of this work is now going abroad to India because of cost. The Royal School of Needlework at Hampton court as part of their apprenticeship teach goldwork and are responsible for the conservation of many embroideries of this type. My other half specialises in repro regalia and uniform embroidery in gold and silver work (he's self taught because of the necessity to finish my uniforms off, I don't embroider unless I have to it always was man's work and I don't see why it should be! any different today) making tail ornaments, badges etc he also spins his own bullions for eppaulettes etc and he's in the process of embroidering an 18th century stomacher in metal threads includung real spangles . Now I can get real I don't use fake I'm afraid > > --- > Ginnaphure > > ICQ# 41340093 > > "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." > > Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 17:00:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06578 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:00:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09934; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:18:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA04650 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:15:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04640 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:15:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id PAA18404; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:16:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DD7803.6F2785C8@serv.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:17:39 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Wool question References: <37DD7465.B52025C2@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > > I think that wools weren't commonly heavily fulled till the 14th C > > -- properly felt was made from unspun wool. Something I forgot to add. I don't know about dates, as I said, but I do know that fulled wool and felted wool are not the same thing. The difference is the process and when it takes place in the life of the wool. Felting is done after washing (and maybe after carding) and is not woven but fulling only takes place after the wool is cleaned, carded, spun, and woven. Merouda -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 17:03:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06587 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:03:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10271; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:19:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA04977 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:17:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04967 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:17:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id PAA18414; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:17:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DD7857.4F31403@serv.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 15:19:03 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST:Cartridge pleating question References: <2e3dea1e.250ec027@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > I certainly didn't mean to imply that > Margo was doing this intentionally..thank you for drawing that to my > attention as my wording may have mis communicated what I intended to say. Of course you didn't. :) Email is such a tough medium to use sometimes. :) Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 17:03:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06591 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:03:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10498; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:20:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05267 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:18:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com (ms3.phoenix.com [134.122.1.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA05241 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:18:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:26:17 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: sailor's palm Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:20:39 -0700 Message-ID: <000101befe14$af494c10$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" > Has anyone handsewn a corset, dresses or > doublet? Any advice would be helpful. Try using a sailor's palm for pushing the needle thru a corset. Saves much wear & tear on the fingers. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 17:26:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06658 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:26:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13284; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:44:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA10596 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:41:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10585 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:41:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA20190 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:41:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA00080 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:41:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:41:41 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: Re: H-COST: sailor's palm In-Reply-To: <000101befe14$af494c10$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Cynthia Barnes wrote: > > > > Has anyone handsewn a corset, dresses or > > doublet? Any advice would be helpful. Run your thread over a block of beeswax before sewing, and it will eliminate many of your tangles. Using silk thread does the same. If you aren't familiar with the wide range of available sewing stitches--running stitch, back stitch, hem-stitch, blind-stitch, etc.--check out a book on sewing or such from the library and read up on them. Although you don't need to know lots of fancy stitches to sew by hand, it's nice to know something of what exists if you want to do something special. And don't worry if your seams wander all over the place at first; it takes some practice to get a straight, even seam. Hand-sew a 10-gore greenland dress, and I guarantee that by the time you're done your seams & stitches will be the envy of all your friends. :) Good luck, Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 17:28:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06666 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:28:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13788; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:46:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11054 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:43:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11047 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:43:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA20267 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:43:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA00244 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:44:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:44:01 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Source for real gold-wrapped thread? In-Reply-To: <37DDDC13.318B@virgin.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Do you have the address, phone or email of a company that sells the heavy gold and silver wrapped cording, or the metal "tubes" which are sewn down? Do tell! Thanks, Drea On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Dawn wrote: > > -Poster: Dawn > > Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank wrote: > > > > -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" > > > > Silver and gold have always been and still are used for ecclesiastical and regalia decoration, Whether it be actual sewing threads or fine 'tubes' of netal which is couched down . Unfortunately the percentage of metal used is a lot less these days than it was even at the end of the war (only 9% today). It is the same with military lace. As I specialise in making repro uniforms this is something I deal with on a day to day basis and get my supplies from the MOD suppliers in England direct although alot of this work is now going abroad to India because of cost. The Royal School of Needlework at Hampton court as part of their apprenticeship teach goldwork and are responsible for the conservation of many embroideries of this type. My other half specialises in repro regalia and uniform embroidery in gold and silver work (he's self taught because of the necessity to finish my uniforms off, I don't embroider unless I have to it always was man's work and I don't see why it should be! > any different today) making tail ornaments, badges etc he also spins his own bullions for eppaulettes etc and he's in the process of embroidering an 18th century stomacher in metal threads includung real spangles . Now I can get real I don't use fake I'm afraid > > > > --- > > Ginnaphure > > > > ICQ# 41340093 > > > > "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." > > > > Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 18:00:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06718 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:00:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19198; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:18:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17497 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:13:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17479 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:13:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-71-250.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.71.250]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01434 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DD0620.1110E2F4@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 14:11:57 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: What's a DH? References: <02a501befcd4$58986040$3c3084ce@com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, I won't say who it was, but someone wrote: > But I prefer to overdress for any occasion rather than underdressed > as does my DH. I've seen a number of posts referring to a DH. Maybe it's the baseball player in me, but I can't imagine why everyone has a designated hitter. Okay, I'm just a dumb male, but what is being referred to here? Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 18:01:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06727 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:01:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19201; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:18:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17474 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:13:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17464 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:13:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-71-250.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.71.250]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01545 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:13:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DD226D.990A76D6@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:12:32 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Boring clothes? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Katharine wrote: > So, here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday life, > when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a fashionable/historical > flair, or do you go for simple & basic? Well, I like to think that I'm always dressed nicely (unless I'm doing grubby housework, gardening, etc.), but my choices are severely limited by two factors; I'm male and allergic to synthetics. I spent some critical formative years (age 12-18) living on an island in the Central Pacific and the rest of my life in sunny Southern California. Thus, my preference is for shorts and a polo or t-shirt. There are only two or three weeks out of the year that I find it necessary to wear jeans. Even when I'm dressing casually, I do my best to make sure that I choose colors and patterns that match each other and my coloring. Thankfully, I've never worked in a field that required a necktie. I've never been the type to wear boring plain white or light blue dress shirts. I like to wear tasteful stripes and plaids and the occasional print, usually leaning towards the classic styles rather than anything outlandish. Slacks are usually pleated front cotton twills in various colors. Never corduroy or cuffs. I don't have a suit (though I should), but wear a silk or linen blazer with a tie that's interesting, but neither plain nor gaudy. I like to wear sweaters and jackets, but around here we don't have much call for them. Of course, this hasn't stopped me from collecting more than I'll never need. My biggest dilemma is shoes. I'm very picky about them and won't wear anything that looks like a boat shoe, golf shoe, or bowling shoe. Unfortunately, that's 99% of what is available. I'm sure that's more than anyone wanted to know. :-) Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 18:07:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06731 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:07:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20092; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:24:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA19359 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:22:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19354 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:22:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id QAA21137; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DD8790.5493E2C9@serv.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:24:01 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: What's a DH? References: <02a501befcd4$58986040$3c3084ce@com> <37DD0620.1110E2F4@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > > But I prefer to overdress for any occasion rather than underdressed > > as does my DH. > > I've seen a number of posts referring to a DH. Maybe it's the baseball player > in me, but I can't imagine why everyone has a designated hitter. Okay, I'm > just a dumb male, but what is being referred to here? DH = Dear Husband :) Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 18:14:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06737 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:14:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21061; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:31:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA20738 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:29:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20724 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:29:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p30.directcon.net [206.170.184.79]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA27474 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 16:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909132327.QAA27474@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: What's a DH? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson A >DH = Dear Husband :) Or Damn Husband, depending on how the week is going. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 18:19:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06742 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:19:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21970; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:37:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA21218 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:31:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21202 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:31:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem81.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.81] helo=herimats) by mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11QfZd-0002hx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:31:49 +0100 Message-ID: <002301befe40$29b4f640$51065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <000101befe14$af494c10$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: sailor's palm Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:30:45 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Rather than go looking for a sailors palm.which can often be a bit too bulky for every day stitching - you will always be putting in on and off. ; Why not make a smaller one yourself , with a coin sewn firmly between to pieces of thick material and with a presstud at the back of the hand to keep it tight; It gives you enough for a heavy push and doesnt get in the way when positioning material or threading needles. Dave +++++++++++++++++ L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters > > -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" > > > > Has anyone handsewn a corset, dresses or > > doublet? Any advice would be helpful. > > Try using a sailor's palm for pushing the needle thru a corset. Saves much > wear & tear on the fingers. > > --cin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 18:56:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06837 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:56:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26589; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:14:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA28761 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:11:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28754 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:11:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.54.227.65] ([209.207.57.105]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA07467 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:11:05 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <37D92A6F.26A9023B@pacbell.net> <37D73BA0.6C6C6B53@bc.sympatico.ca> <199909101510.JAA13174@email.boisestate.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:10:00 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: H-COST: Re: Leather doublet questions Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Schuessler >-Poster: Lynn Downward > >Linda, > >Dietmar sent you some very important suggestions on sewing leather. His >suggestion for seams is how I was taught to work with leather. HOWEVER, he >didn't mention (and neither did my first teacher) that Barge cement is very >dangerous to use. I second this warning and would recommend as an alternative a non-toxic adhesive called "Leather Weld." While I am not expert in leather-working, this has worked for me in the past. I believe it can be gotten through Tandy. Does anyone else have any experience with it? Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 19:03:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06864 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:03:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27676; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:21:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00113 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:18:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f251.hotmail.com [207.82.251.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA00108 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:18:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 83700 invoked by uid 0); 14 Sep 1999 00:18:14 -0000 Message-ID: <19990914001814.83699.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.172.154.68 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:18:14 PDT X-Originating-IP: [206.172.154.68] From: "Andrea navin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Ranting against fashion idiots Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:18:14 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea navin" g. Was this a >fluke or has medieval really come back as a fashion influence with teens? > I missed delurking day but I just had to answer the question for my generation. Yes medieval is back. Not for teeny bopper, Britney Spears-lover people. But for the less "mainstream" teenagers, yes. Two of my friends are going medieval for Prom this year: both are getting their dresses at the local medieval shop which has two or three locations and just opened a Victorian shop as well. (Unfortunantly they think I am going medieval with them despite the fact that I have told them thousands of times I'm going 19th century. And they still say " Yeah, like I said, you're going medieval" *sigh*) I am just looking forward to the faces of the people on the subway when we show up in or medieval/19th century attire :) Andrea And yes my hair is red! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 19:03:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06867 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:03:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27659; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:21:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29953 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:18:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo28.mx.aol.com (imo28.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.72]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29932 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:18:27 -0600 (MDT) From: Morghana@aol.com Received: from Morghana@aol.com by imo28.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6JSUa22757 (3975) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:17:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <15551502.250eee31@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:17:53 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: DH To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Morghana@aol.com In a message dated 9/13/99 7:37:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Margo Anderson writes: << Or Damn Husband, depending on how the week is going. >> I almost choked on my tea!!! Thanks EVER so much for that bit of day-brightening!!! :::still chuckling and going back to sewing the un-authentic but gonna-be-fun silk plaid skirt to wear to Faire this coming Saturday for "Scottish Weekend":::: ~Morghana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 19:07:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06877 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:07:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28173; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:24:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00752 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:22:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00745 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:22:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-55-161.s161.tnt8.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.55.161]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA24832 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:21:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004d01befe46$cf13cde0$d73faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <199909131917.MAA28830@zeus.directcon.net> <37DD5B09.3844BC2@serv.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress/was Boring clothes-cleavage Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:19:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I always call it the Refrigerator Repair Man. Have you ever seen the scene on Saturday Night Live where Bill Murray (a.k.a. Tad) and Gilda had the frig repaired. The repairman bent over and his moon shined. The two of the giggled themselves silly. Later... Penny ********************************** Deadline for the Online Costume Ball is Sept. 21 http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/attend.htm > Maybe it depends on what part of the US you live in because here in my neck of > the woods we call it T.V. Repairman Pants. > > *GGGGG* > Cynthia > -- > Cynthia Long > Merouda the True of Bornover > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of An Tir > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 19:08:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06881 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:08:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28407; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:26:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01010 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:23:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01000 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:23:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p44.directcon.net [206.170.184.93]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA04084 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 17:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909140022.RAA04084@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Leather doublet questions Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >I second this warning and would recommend as an alternative a non-toxic >adhesive called "Leather Weld." While I am not expert in leather-working, >this has worked for me in the past. I believe it can be gotten through >Tandy. Does anyone else have any experience with it? > Yes, since the leather business my husband and I used to have was during my two pregnancies and subsequent brestfeeding, there was No Way I was going near barge cement. I used Leather Weld instead. It doesn't have the "instant hold" that Barge and other contact cements have, so you have to clamp, weight, or otherwise hold the pieces together until it dries, but then the bond is very strong For sewing garment weight leather, I usually used a mock welt seam, with both seam allowances folded to one side and then topstitched. To secure the seams before stitching I used Dritz's basting tape, which works wonderfully well. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 19:09:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06885 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:09:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28529; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:26:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01127 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:24:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01113 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:24:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA25716 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:21:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <016a01befe47$c544b4e0$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Wool question Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:26:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! > After fulling and various other processes, the nap would be raised and then >sheared off. This process might be repeated more than once for fine cloths >such as 'scarlet' (the finest and most expensive woolen cloth, not a color). >The result was a cloth that was heavy and practically impermeable. Also, >really good cloths might be raised and sheared repeatedly during the course of >their life as clothing--royal wardrbe accounts often have records of payments >made to shearers--which shows you how thick the cloth must have been. Yep. The household accounts of Eleanor, Countess of Leicester (the first non-royal household accounts extant) document her sending "Hick the Taylor" off to London to have some clothes sheared. As I recall, it wasn't cheap. However, it doesn't necessarily mean the cloth was thick--just dense. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 19:31:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06901 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:31:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01860; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:48:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04983 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:45:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04971 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:45:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id SAA03017 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:53:49 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA20929 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:51:23 -0500 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:51:23 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: Historic Costume List Subject: Re: H-COST: Wool question In-Reply-To: <37DD7465.B52025C2@earthlink.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton As long as we're on the topic... Can worsted be fulled? I had the impression that it could not. Was worsted (as we know it today) used in period? If so, was it valued? I remember a discussion on this list a couple of years ago about this, but the only thing I came away from it with was that the meaning of "worsted" as used in medieval documents may not have been the same as we use now. Which of course makes things only more confusing. One reason I am suddenly concerned about this is that I have acquired about 60 yards of pieces of fine wool suiting -- all of them 100 percent worsted, very lightweight and smooth, in black, dark blue, grey, red, and taupe. I'm dying to use them for things like men's hose and women's fitted underdresses. But only if I'm sure that worsted, rather than just plain wool, would have been valued. I am highly allergic to wool myself, but I don't react to these wonderfully smooth worsteds, so this is the only way I'll have a wool fitted gown of my own. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 19:53:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06912 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:53:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04215; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:10:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA08204 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:08:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web1401.mail.yahoo.com (web1401.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.165]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA08198 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:08:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990914011037.15141.rocketmail@web1401.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [38.226.171.40] by web1401.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:10:37 PDT Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:10:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Carol Mitchell Subject: H-COST: Cavalier Association To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carol Mitchell Marsha, is there an address, either e-mail or snailmail for the group? I'd like to include it in the Midwest resource list. Thanks Carol Carol Mitchell President Chicagoland Costumer's Guild __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 20:27:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06992 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:27:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07667; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:44:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13252 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:41:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vrcgate.suffolk.lib.ny.us ([199.173.91.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13244 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:41:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bchamber (dial-in157.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.93.157]) by vrcgate.suffolk.lib.ny.us (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA17648 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:41:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000301befe52$4cec98e0$9d5dadc7@bchamber> From: "Beth" To: References: <199909131804.LAA20666@zeus.directcon.net> Subject: Re: H-COST:Cartridge pleating question Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:43:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Beth" > This same person, BTW, doesn't think I should be drafting my own patterns. > She wants me to use Past Patterns or some other company's pattern, "because > that way it's historically accurate". Unless I've lost my mind (always possible) there were NO commercial patterns in the 1850's so you are MORE accurate by drafting you own. I'll be the first to admit that the first bodice I drafted for myself was far from accurate but that was due to a lack of understanding of the differences between 19th and 20th century cutting and draping. Now that I understand how the different cuts works with the grain line etc. I think I am more accurate drafting an item for MY body - just as my great, great, etc. grandmothers would have done for themselves. Beth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 20:27:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06999 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:27:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07668; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:44:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13227 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:41:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vrcgate.suffolk.lib.ny.us ([199.173.91.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13220 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:41:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bchamber (dial-in157.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.93.157]) by vrcgate.suffolk.lib.ny.us (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA17642 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:41:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000201befe52$4ab371c0$9d5dadc7@bchamber> From: "Beth" To: References: <19990913.114513.-232099.0.AnnetteAllen@juno.com> Subject: Re: Red hair was (Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:26:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Beth" > > As I grew older and my hair grew darker, I insisted on blonde and > everyone else kept calling it "strawberry blonde". I began wearing > jewel tones and people began asking me what color my eyes are. > (I call them Hazel Grey, because they are grey when I am naked in > a cream colored bathroom with no makeup on.) They range from > grey to bright blue, blue, green, blue-green, and/or yellow. > (Apparently, > they turn yellow when I am very angry, according to my husband, who > would be the most likely to know!) > > I cannot use ash colors on my hair; it turns green. I cannot use gold > colors on my hair, it turns red. Any genetisists on the list?? Are blond/brown hair turning red and chameleon colored eyes genetically linked?? In college I started answering the "what color ARE you eyes?" question with "I don't know! What color do you think they are?" It drove one boyfriend absolutely crazy for a while - but then he deserved all that and way more :) Beth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 20:48:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07103 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:48:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10358; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:06:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA16565 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:04:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (alpha.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.21.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16551 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:04:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from antiquity.pbc.adelphia.net (surf12-151-237.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.151.237]) by alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id WAA18490 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:10:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <014c01befe55$4b42d920$ed973018@pbc.adelphia.net> From: "Erica Pence" To: References: <19990913.114513.-232099.0.AnnetteAllen@juno.com> <000201befe52$4ab371c0$9d5dadc7@bchamber> Subject: Re: Red hair was (Re: H-COST: How Costumers dress) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:03:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0149_01BEFE33.C3357400" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Erica Pence" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0149_01BEFE33.C3357400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <
<<Any genetisists on the list?? Are = blond/brown hair=20 turning red and chameleon
colored eyes genetically linked?? =
 
One of my best friends has a degree in genetics.  I can give = her a=20 call and see if she can enlighten the list as far as redheads and an = interest in=20 costume history.  I'll let you all know if she has anything to say = about=20 it.  I'm a blonde gone red and now going back to blonde.  =
 
Well, need to get off the computer.  I have to finish = preparing for=20 Hurricane Floyd.  I'll probably away from the computerfor a couple = days,=20 for those of you trying to get a hold of me.  Wish me luck.
 
Erica Pence
Robes of Antiquity
www.robesofantiquity.com
= Online=20 store coming soon!
 
------=_NextPart_000_0149_01BEFE33.C3357400-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 20:54:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07165 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:54:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10896; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:12:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA17567 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:09:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17555 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:09:51 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6SVB0Ltrbo (4246) for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6415f683.250f084b@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:09:15 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: (No Subject) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com No your question is NOT really stupid.They did use real gold.People have been embellishing their clothes and embroideries for at least a couple of thousand years. One of my passions happens to be metal thread embroidery.Specifically Elizabethean style.The metal was used in several different forms. There were twisted braids of metal over silk, there were hammered lengths of gold,called plate;there were the 'metal springs', gold bullions, in a variety of textures: smooth, checky,purl..It is still possible to buy this stuff with some of the real gold or silver in. Most of the stuff you will buy in the fabric or needlework store is likely to be thread wrapped lurex , though.I get a lot of my stuff from Hedgehog Handiworks, here in California. I'll take a quick look a little later --when I'm not so rushed and can point you in the direction of some good informative books with descriptions and techniques how-tos if you are interested. Cheers-- albra gotta run, right now _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 21:23:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07219 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:23:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14406; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:41:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA21566 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:38:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA21558 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 20:38:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Mon Sep 13 19:37:47 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 19:37:47 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: metallic embroidery X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.36.111 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fairbank" On Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:09:15 AlbraKat wrote: > >-Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com There were >twisted braids of metal over silk, there were hammered lengths of gold,called >plate;there were the 'metal springs', gold bullions, in a variety of >textures: I've also seen the metal springs (I've seen them used to make petals of flowers) but I wasn't sure if that was the same thing. Thank all for you who replied:) it's appreciated. I see that the "metallic" thread now isn't too terribly different than it was. I pulls some apart and it's the "metallic" part wrapped around a white thread. The metallic part seems to be plastic of some sort, sort of like thin strands of mylar or whatever it is they use to make Christmas tree icicles out of. Sort of like how you all said they wrapped the threads in the fine metals. Very interesting. You all are a wealth of information! --- Ginnaphure ICQ# 41340093 "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 22:59:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07321 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:59:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25494; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:16:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA05001 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:13:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04994 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:13:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29426 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:13:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-177.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.177]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA02372 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006501befe68$85ee6680$b419fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST:Cartridge pleating question Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:20:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" By her insistence on holding multiple needles at one time (and if this method turns out to be actually true), it makes me wonder if there was a tool for this. Something made to hold multiple needles and keep them aligned perfectly. Hmmm... I wonder if they had one of these tools on the "Liar's Club" and didn't really know what it was. ;) Margo, I think I would go back to the person and ask her to show you how she knows this. Also, what do you call what you do, if it is not cartridge pleating. I am very curious, and I think I would politely call her on it if I were in your shoes. If nothing else, for the learning value alone. Though, it is possible that the only thing you learn that she is full of you know what. Once you find out, could you share with us? I am sure lots of us would want to know. Michelle I do not know how "they" cartridge pleated, and actually could >rather care less. Personally, I "know" how "I" cartridge pleat, and the >authenticity of technique thereof is of no consequence.(or very little) As >long as what I have created matches what "they" created...why fuss about >using 2,3,27000 needles at a time >Chas > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 23:16:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07378 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:16:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26613; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:34:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA07291 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:31:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07285 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:31:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990914043140.HNCJ16271.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:31:40 -0700 Message-ID: <37DDCFC2.3B386BFF@home.com> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:32:02 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume-digest@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Period Clothing Coming Back? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Has anyone else seen the corset on the cover of the US September Cosmopolitan magazine? I was so fascinated by it (given our recent thread about teens wanting Ren/Medieval for Prom) that I picked it up. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 23:24:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07411 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:24:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27071; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:42:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA08140 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:39:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08122 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:39:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA11259 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-177.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.177]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA19679 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00c001befe6c$22079d40$b419fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: What's a DH? Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:46:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" 'Divorced Husband' is what popped into my mind! Michelle >-Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > >> > But I prefer to overdress for any occasion rather than underdressed >> > as does my DH. >> >> I've seen a number of posts referring to a DH. Maybe it's the baseball player >> in me, but I can't imagine why everyone has a designated hitter. Okay, I'm >> just a dumb male, but what is being referred to here? > >DH = Dear Husband :) Cynthia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 13 23:51:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07467 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:51:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29019; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:08:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA11207 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:05:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp05.primenet.com (smtp05.primenet.com [206.165.6.135]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11197 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:05:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp05.primenet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) id WAA34980 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:05:36 -0700 Received: from ip-55-022.sna.primenet.com(207.218.55.22), claiming to be "pavilion" via SMTP by smtp05.primenet.com, id smtpdZhWuaa; Mon Sep 13 22:05:25 1999 Message-Id: <4.1.19990913220547.00cd9c80@pop.primenet.com> X-Sender: kittykat@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:06:34 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir Subject: Re: H-COST: What's a DH? In-Reply-To: <00c001befe6c$22079d40$b419fea9@gunsafes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir Another list I was on used DH as Darling (or Dratted, depending on reference) Husband. Svanny At 09:46 PM 09/13/1999 , you wrote: > >-Poster: "Michelle" > > > >'Divorced Husband' is what popped into my mind! > Michelle >>-Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover >> >>> > But I prefer to overdress for any occasion rather than underdressed >>> > as does my DH. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 00:31:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07555 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:31:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02236; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:49:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA15710 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:46:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f298.hotmail.com [207.82.251.190]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA15704 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:46:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 33890 invoked by uid 0); 14 Sep 1999 05:45:39 -0000 Message-ID: <19990914054539.33889.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.42.179 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:45:39 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.42.179] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: No harm done/thanks for the info/Re: Source for gemstone bead buttons Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:45:39 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Hi Danielle No you haven't offended me at all. I know the difference between lapis and howlite. :-) Since Kat mentioned that she couldn't afford the real thing, I was just giving her an alternative that is about the same shade of blue but is much cheaper than the original. No harm done. Thanks very much for your information. I may be asking you for more gem info in the future. If that's okay with you. Thanks again Lonna >From: Danielle Nunn >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Source for gemstone bead buttons >Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 01:34:09 -0400 > > >-Poster: Danielle Nunn > >Greetings, > > >I found a 16" strand of Howlite (dyed Lapis) 10mm beads (about 41 beads) > >for $6.83 per strand (If you buy more than 3, there is a proportional > >discount). They also have a 12mm (34 beads) for $9.82. Their regular > >lapis runs from $14.95 (for 4mm) to $29.95 (for 8mm). > >I think I'll preface this with the statement "however I say this I'm sure >it will come out wrong". Hi, my name is Danielle Nunn-Weinberg and I'm a >gemmologist. I just wanted to ask you if you realize that Howlite is a >completely different mineral from Lapis Lazuli. > >Howlite is usually dyed a variety of different colours to be used as an >inexpensive substitute for the more expensive stone it it impersinating. >Most Lapis on the market these days is dyed already. The way to test for >dyed lapis is take a cotton swab soaked in rubbing alcohol. Rub it on a >non-visible portion of the stone. If there is any blue on the swab - the >stone is dyed. Please don't let either of these things detract from your >enjoyment of the stone, it is just meant as information. > >Please forgive me if I've offended. > >Cheers, >Danielle Nunn-Weinberg, FGA, FCGmA > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 00:48:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07569 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:48:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03247; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:06:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA17646 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:03:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ecom.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA17640 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:03:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port181.imag.net [204.244.111.181]) by ecom.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA16970 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:07:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <019601befe77$05186240$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: A Tale of 4 sewing machines Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:04:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Oh my, that really made me laugh . . . my first day on the SCA garb list, too (grin). Will you post it to the historic list, too? I think they'd get quite a kick out of it. Zelda of York -----Original Message----- From: Carol J. Bell Cannon To: Recipient list suppressed Date: September 13, 1999 2:38 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: A Tale of 4 sewing machines > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > I'm reading several lists at once, among them h-costume and SCA Garb. >I'd just finished reading a post from a lady who was wanted some explicit >help constructing authentic Viking/Verangian Guard-style pants...then I >read another: Sounds like you are in desperate need of a Viking. They >never need oiling and they are pretty much unjammable ... ... > At which point, I was curled up over my keyboard laughing... >I'm sorry...I had to share that...and as you see--it was not either post, >but my misinterpretation, and all because of the commonality between the >two posts of the word Viking... Carol / Gra/inne, who thinks maybe it's >time to go do something else for a while... > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 00:55:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07575 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:55:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03787; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:12:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA18298 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:10:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18291 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:10:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-133.radiks.net [206.29.243.135]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA25706 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:08:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990914005521.00715cf8@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:55:21 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: metal embroidery In-Reply-To: <199909140414.WAA05095@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Just a couple of thoughts: Another technique used with metal(lic) threads was used in some liturgical garments I've seen. It involved couching gold thread/thin cord with colored threads, but the couching was very close together, like satin stitching. The idea was to "paint with thread", using different colors and allowing more or less of the gold to show for shading. Unfortunately, the name of the technique escapes me right now. It was very detailed and obviously time consuming. I saw several religious vestments using this at the Phila. Museum of Art when we were there back in February. In reference to the little metal "springs" that were couched down, I found bags of the stuff in copper (yes, real copper) being sold for Xmas icicles. Don't know if it came in "gold" or "silver", but I got many bags of the copper for less than $1 each. This was in Menards Xmas decorations last season. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 01:03:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07586 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:03:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04302; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:21:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA19149 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:18:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19143 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:18:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-71-9.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.71.9]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01206 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DD8724.3E41292@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:22:13 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: What's a DH? References: <199909132327.QAA27474@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, I had written: > Okay, I'm just a dumb male, but what is being referred to here? Cynthia replied: >> DH = Dear Husband :) Margo added: >>> Or Damn Husband, depending on how the week is going. I hope it never gets bad enough to imply Deceased Husband. Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 01:07:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07590 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:07:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA04547; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:25:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA19595 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:23:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f147.hotmail.com [207.82.251.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA19590 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:23:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 42049 invoked by uid 0); 14 Sep 1999 06:22:37 -0000 Message-ID: <19990914062237.42048.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.42.179 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:22:37 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.42.179] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: sailor's palm Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:22:37 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Hullo Delurking a bit here to ask -- What is a sailor's palm and where can I find one? Sounds like it could be something I can really use. I'm one of those people who can't stand to use a thimble. They make my fingertips itch. Besides, I need to actually feel what I'm stitching even if I end up with pock marks in my fingertips (which go away after a while as my sewing calluses begin to build up). Thanks Lonna >From: "Cynthia Barnes" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" >Subject: H-COST: sailor's palm >Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 11:20:39 -0700 > > >-Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" > > > > Has anyone handsewn a corset, dresses or > > doublet? Any advice would be helpful. > >Try using a sailor's palm for pushing the needle thru a corset. Saves much >wear & tear on the fingers. > >--cin >Cynthia Barnes >408.570.1023 >Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com >Phoenix Technologies >411 E. Plumeria Dr. >San Jose CA 95134 >"I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give >the wrong answers." > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 01:14:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07596 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:14:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05012; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:32:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA20197 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:29:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f61.hotmail.com [207.82.251.195]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA20191 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:29:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 68549 invoked by uid 0); 14 Sep 1999 06:29:25 -0000 Message-ID: <19990914062925.68548.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.42.179 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:29:25 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.42.179] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Ten-gore Greenland dress? Have pattern?/Re: H-COST: sailor's palm Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:29:25 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" >-Poster: aleed 10-gore greenland dress This sounds wonderful. Where might I find more information on this? Patterns maybe? Whatever information you have will be greatly appreciated. Thanks much Lonna ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 01:37:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07608 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:37:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05893; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:55:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA22119 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:52:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ecom.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA22113 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:52:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port97.imag.net [204.244.111.97]) by ecom.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA23738 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01e801befe7d$e9e022e0$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: sailor's palm Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:53:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Hello Sounds interesting. Is it for making sails with? How is it handled/used? Zelda -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Barnes To: H-Costume (E-mail) Date: September 13, 1999 3:24 PM Subject: H-COST: sailor's palm > >-Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" > > >> Has anyone handsewn a corset, dresses or >> doublet? Any advice would be helpful. > >Try using a sailor's palm for pushing the needle thru a corset. Saves much >wear & tear on the fingers. > >--cin >Cynthia Barnes >408.570.1023 >Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com >Phoenix Technologies >411 E. Plumeria Dr. >San Jose CA 95134 >"I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give >the wrong answers." > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 01:37:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07612 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:37:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05831; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:53:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA21914 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:51:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ecom.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA21909 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:51:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port97.imag.net [204.244.111.97]) by ecom.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA23498 for ; Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:55:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <01df01befe7d$b00f1c60$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: A Tale of 4 sewing machines Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:52:16 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Ooops . . . Sorry. Oh well, goofed again. This replying stuff is more hazardous than lurking . . . Zelda -----Original Message----- From: The Rogue To: h-costume@indra.com Date: September 13, 1999 11:09 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: A Tale of 4 sewing machines > >-Poster: "The Rogue" > >Oh my, that really made me laugh . . . my first day on the SCA garb list, >too (grin). > >Will you post it to the historic list, too? I think they'd get quite a kick >out of it. > >Zelda of York >-----Original Message----- >From: Carol J. Bell Cannon >To: Recipient list suppressed >Date: September 13, 1999 2:38 PM >Subject: Re: H-COST: A Tale of 4 sewing machines > > >> >>-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" >> >> I'm reading several lists at once, among them h-costume and SCA Garb. >>I'd just finished reading a post from a lady who was wanted some explicit >>help constructing authentic Viking/Verangian Guard-style pants...then I >>read another: Sounds like you are in desperate need of a Viking. They >>never need oiling and they are pretty much unjammable ... ... >> At which point, I was curled up over my keyboard laughing... >>I'm sorry...I had to share that...and as you see--it was not either post, >>but my misinterpretation, and all because of the commonality between the >>two posts of the word Viking... Carol / Gra/inne, who thinks maybe it's >>time to go do something else for a while... >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 02:40:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04009 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 02:40:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07966; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:57:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA27227 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:55:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA27222 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:55:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-71-9.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.71.9]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA09394 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:54:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DD9DCE.74FC3BD4@pacbell.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:59:01 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: sailor's palm References: <01e801befe7d$e9e022e0$03000004@van1282> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Someone (I'm sorry, but I don't remember who) wrote: >>> Try using a sailor's palm for pushing the needle thru a corset. >>> Saves much wear & tear on the fingers. Lonna wondered: >> What is a sailor's palm and where can I find one? Zelda confirmed: > Sounds interesting. Is it for making sails with? How is it handled/used? I've never really seen or used one, but from what I understand it is a spoon shaped metal depression that fits into the palm of your hand and can be used to push needles through many heavy layers. I believe they may be attached to a sort of glove and that in a pinch you could probably use a soup spoon to hobble together a home made variant. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 03:16:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA04026 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:16:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10596; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 02:34:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA00164 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 02:31:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f160.hotmail.com [207.82.251.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA00159 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 02:31:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 35420 invoked by uid 0); 14 Sep 1999 08:30:59 -0000 Message-ID: <19990914083059.35419.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.33.128 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:30:58 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.33.128] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: sailor's palm Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 01:30:58 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" I think I understand now. I get this picture in my mind of sailors using this to protect their hands while they are building and/or repairing sails or other heavy cloth objects. Now I need to go to my source at Fisherman's Wharf to see if they can help me find someone who still uses one. Thank you, Dietmar, for shedding some light on this. Lonna >From: Dietmar >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: sailor's palm >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 00:59:01 +0000 > > >-Poster: Dietmar > >Greetings, > >Someone (I'm sorry, but I don't remember who) wrote: > > >>> Try using a sailor's palm for pushing the needle thru a corset. > >>> Saves much wear & tear on the fingers. > >Lonna wondered: > > >> What is a sailor's palm and where can I find one? > >Zelda confirmed: > > > Sounds interesting. Is it for making sails with? How is it >handled/used? > >I've never really seen or used one, but from what I understand it is a >spoon >shaped metal depression that fits into the palm of your hand and can be >used >to push needles through many heavy layers. I believe they may be attached >to a >sort of glove and that in a pinch you could probably use a soup spoon to >hobble together a home made variant. > >Regards, > >Dietmar > > >"Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; > over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 04:07:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04179 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:07:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12101; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:24:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA05799 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:21:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4-svc.virgin.net (mta4-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.145]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05609 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:21:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.61.78]) by mta4-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990914092055.DBUG4868.mta4-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:20:55 +0100 Message-ID: <37DE7901.7337@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:34:09 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Source for real gold-wrapped thread? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn aleed wrote: > > -Poster: aleed > > Do you have the address, phone or email of a company that sells the heavy > gold and silver wrapped cording, or the metal "tubes" which are sewn down? > > Do tell! > > Thanks, > > Drea > > On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Dawn wrote: > > > > > -Poster: Dawn > > > > > > > > > > Silver and gold have always been and still are used for > ecclesiastical and regalia decoration, Whether it be actual sewing > threads or fine 'tubes' of netal which is couched down . Unfortunately> > > any different today) making tail ornaments, badges etc he also spins his own bullions for eppaulettes etc and he's in the process of embroidering an 18th century stomacher in metal threads includung real spangles . Now I can get real I don't use fake i'm afraid > > > > > >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Unfortunately the MOD suppliers don't supply direct (I don't think) as due to many amalgamations the shop half has disappeared, and it's not worth their while dealing with small orders. I get my supplies because of Andrew's working with them. You Can I think buy via The Royal School of Needlework at Hampton Court I will try and find their number. Andrew sell the uniform laces but I'm not sure if he'd be interested in being a supplier of threads as well I will ask him. By the way the fake stuff is made from mylar, unfortunately the MOD is starting to prefer this to real particularly in lace as it doesn't tarnish which means we can get fewer designs for authenticity purposes. Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 04:28:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04190 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:28:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12959; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:46:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA27737 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:43:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA27730 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:43:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JFYGQETWUO00BFJ4@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:48:06 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JFYGP377UQ00DDX0@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:17:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:11:24 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:11:15 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:11:09 +1100 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:11:08 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-COST: H-Cost: "Bum-cleavage" In-reply-to: <199909131951.NAA28157@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <41931D742A1@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 > In the Uk ; gentlemen's cleavage is shown at the rear , below the > waist, as a result if the trouser being worn on the hips. the > display of cleavage by building workers is an important part of > modern day British culture; No I am not Joking, however > unbelievable > Dave Dave is correct except that they aren't what I'd call "gentlemen" and it should be pointed-out that men displaying bum cleavage are usually the subject of jokes. Trust me, for the most part it is NOT a pretty sight. It's also not uncommon and seems to be part of the modern way of men wearing trousers. Not around their waists but sagging 'round their hips. The other day, on the way home from work, I had the misfortune of being behind a commuter as he climbed the stairs to the platform at the station. He was clad in shirt, tiue, trousers and "smart" shoes, adn had a jacket folded neatly over his arm. His trousers were so low-slung that they looked in danger of dropping altogether and the crotch was hanging about an inch or two above the knee.... Why do they do it? Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 04:30:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04196 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:30:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA13065; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:47:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA27862 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:45:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA27854 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:45:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem18.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.18] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11Qp9P-0001KJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:45:24 +0100 Message-ID: <007001befe95$e0dacb10$12065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <199909140022.RAA04084@zeus.directcon.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Leather doublet questions Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:27:44 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Although known by different names here, the really bad adhesives have been phased out through European Legislation over the last ten years. New ones have been invented, that dont make you "drunk" or give you brain damage , some like the dreaded Black Bostik just smell awful. . Trouble is that they may be safe but they have a very quick intitial drying time, so you cant move things. Also they are quick to deteriorate if you meave the lid off. Instant treacle. Can you get heat activated leather adhesives in the states retail; I know you can in the trade , but can the ordinary joe? Is leather Weld like these? L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters ----- Original Message ----- > -Poster: Margo Anderson > >I second this warning and would recommend as an alternative a non-toxic > >adhesive called "Leather Weld." While I am not expert in leather-working, > >this has worked for me in the past. I believe it can be gotten through > >Tandy. Does anyone else have any experience with it? > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 04:30:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04200 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:30:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA13071; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:48:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA27868 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:45:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA27861 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 03:45:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem18.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.18] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11Qp9S-0001KJ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:45:26 +0100 Message-ID: <007101befe95$e24e3130$12065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <19990914083059.35419.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: sailor's palm Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:44:42 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" I have a small collection . Its one of those silly things that I collect -have to buy every one I see. Basically they are for working all kinds of canvas; The best ones are ex-navy/army surplus (pre -1950 better still pre 1930) and are really impressive; Thick boiled leather that covers the palm and top of the hand with a hole for the thumb. In the middle one; sometime two, dimpled and concave round metal pieces firmly sewn inside a leather grommet arrangement. There are different styles; some are for tent making. One is so stiff you can stand on it and it doesnt bend. The military ones were issued as part of a tent repair kit that included needles and pieces of canvas and felt and little cards of really tough braided thread, all in a little green felt bag. I have seen a full kit dated I think 1898 go at auction for a couple of hundred pounds; But the same pattern lasted for many many years. I have also seen more recent ones made in plastic , but they are still quite bulky items and a sure fire way of breaking needles Dave +++++++++++++++++. L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 04:55:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04212 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:55:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14059; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:12:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA29841 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:10:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from cdale3.midwest.net (cdale3.midwest.net [208.235.1.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA29835 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 04:10:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (paducah39.midwest.net [208.235.9.49]) by cdale3.midwest.net (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id FAA21588 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:13:16 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <007001befe98$a998cc80$3109ebd0@default> From: "Jennifer Gibson" To: Subject: H-COST: Setting to Digest Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:05:17 -0500 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006D_01BEFE6E.BCFE6980" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Jennifer Gibson" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01BEFE6E.BCFE6980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This may be a silly question, but how can I set the list to receive the = posts in digest form? Thanks,=20 Jennifer ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01BEFE6E.BCFE6980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This may be a silly question, but how = can I set the=20 list to receive the posts in digest form?
 
Thanks,
 
Jennifer
------=_NextPart_000_006D_01BEFE6E.BCFE6980-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 05:48:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA04236 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:48:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA15915; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:05:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA04420 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:03:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA04414 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:03:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([212.250.194.69]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990914105839.WVAA2782.mta3-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:58:39 +0100 Message-ID: <37DE9115.54B5@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:16:53 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Source for real gold-wrapped thread? References: <37DE7901.7337@virgin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn I have just spoken to him and he says he would be happy to supply anyone with metal threads if wanted. He can also supply metal fringing, spangles, lace etc and makes tassels, hand worked metal thread tudor buttons and loads of other stuff, he's far too useful so I can never fall out with him. E-mail andrew@militarymetal.free-online.co.uk or phone UK 0181 580 2688> > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > Unfortunately the MOD suppliers don't supply direct (I don't think) as > due to many amalgamations the shop half has disappeared, and it's not > worth their while dealing with small orders. I get my supplies because > of Andrew's working with them. You Can I think buy via The Royal School > of Needlework at Hampton Court I will try and find their number. Andrew > sell the uniform laces but I'm not sure if he'd be interested in being a > supplier of threads as well I will ask him. > By the way the fake stuff is made from mylar, unfortunately the MOD is > starting to prefer this to real particularly in lace as it doesn't > tarnish which means we can get fewer designs for authenticity purposes. > > Dawn > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 06:18:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04254 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:18:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA16889; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:36:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA06987 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:33:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA06971 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 05:33:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-153.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.250.153]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id VAA11355 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:33:39 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199909141133.VAA11355@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: "Bum-cleavage" Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:14:40 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" A female friend put a photo of herself in a 1700s dress on the pinboard at work. Within an hour, someone had masked out all but the cleavage and added the note, "Whose bum is this?" > > > In the Uk ; gentlemen's cleavage is shown at the rear , below the > > waist, as a result if the trouser being worn on the hips. the > > display of cleavage by building workers is an important part of > > modern day British culture; No I am not Joking, however > > unbelievable > > Dave > > Dave is correct except that they aren't what I'd call "gentlemen" > and it should be pointed-out that men displaying bum cleavage are > usually the subject of jokes. > > Trust me, for the most part it is NOT a pretty sight. It's also not > uncommon and seems to be part of the modern way of men > wearing trousers. Not around their waists but sagging 'round their > hips. > > The other day, on the way home from work, I had the misfortune of > being behind a commuter as he climbed the stairs to the platform > at the station. He was clad in shirt, tiue, trousers and "smart" > shoes, adn had a jacket folded neatly over his arm. > > His trousers were so low-slung that they looked in danger of > dropping altogether and the crotch was hanging about an inch or > two above the knee.... > > > > Why do they do it? > > Teddy > (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of > air and darkness, apparently!) > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 06:51:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04294 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:51:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA18497; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:09:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA09987 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:06:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09978 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:06:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.218.137.55] (benfatto.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.137.55]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA21463 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:06:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: benfatto@pop.ne.mediaone.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909140414.WAA05095@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:11:20 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Elaine Benfatto Subject: H-COST: Re: worsted wool Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elaine Benfatto >Can worsted be fulled? I had the impression that it could not. > >Was worsted (as we know it today) used in period? If so, was it valued? You didn't say which "period" you're asking about, but wool combing (the preparation method that is necessary to produce worsted yarn) is a very, very old craft. I've got a woodcut of Bishop Blaize, the patron saint of woolcombers, who met with his unfortunate martyrdom in the 2nd century by being torn apart by wool combs. And I'm pretty sure (although I'd have to dig into my sources) that combing goes back even further than the 2nd century. So, yes, worsted is a very old spinning method and could have been used to produce yarn to make worsted cloth in medieval times and later. Can worsted be fulled? Technically that depends on the kind of wool that was used to make the cloth. Some breeds of sheep wool full easily, some not at all. The question might better be phrased, "Did they full worsted?" And I don't know the answer to that. Today worsted cloth is prized for its smooth, crisp hand and that quality would be lost if it were fulled and made fluffy. I'm not enough of a scholar to know if weavers and finishers sought this effect in earlier times. Elaine Elaine Benfatto (Cambridge, MA) benfatto@mediaone.net http://people.ne.mediaone.net/benfatto/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 07:25:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04345 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:25:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA20234; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:43:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA13778 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:41:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13769 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:41:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.210.101] (ell245.acadia.net [205.217.210.101]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA15721 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:49:39 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:39:44 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: sailor's palm Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) A sailor's palm is a metal (usually dimpled, to catch the needle) plate set into a heavy leather strap that fits around your hand. As someone pointed out, they are used in place of a thimble to push large, heavy needles through many layers of sailcloth or canvas. They would be worthless used with ordinary sewing needles -- how many of you sew with a needle long enough to be pushed from underneath your thumb? the needle needs to be at least 2 inches long, and also needs to be heavy enough to withstand being pushed from that far without bowing or breaking. Sail needles ar e*very* heavy. Also, palms are quite cumbersome until you get used to working with them -- it is *not* like sewing with a glove on your hand. They are still available, in several different grades. If you do any amount of canvas work, I think it's worth it to spend the extra $$ to buy a good one, which come in sizes, and can be formed to fit your hand. The cheap ones are nasty and actually can be dangerous to work with, because they can slide around so much. Check the yellow pages for a ship's chandlery, marine supply place, etc. There are several sailmakers' supply places that do mailorder. De borah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 07:45:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA04362 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:45:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21404; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:02:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16065 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:00:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16057 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:00:20 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6TXWa07549 (3988) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:59:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3d6e5b98.250fa0b0@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:59:28 EDT Subject: H-COST: local medieval shop To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Andrea: I noticed the medieval trend in some young people, and some pattern companies even have goth wear that is obviously influenced by medieval fashions and Victorian "artistic" clothing. But what, please tell, is sold at a "local medieval shop"? We don't have any around here, and I am dying to know! Gail Finke whose medieval needs are more, well, medieval _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 08:05:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04419 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:05:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22970; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:23:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18990 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:20:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA18979 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:20:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990914132528.1729.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:25:28 PDT Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 06:25:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: local medieval shop To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I have heard many people use this phrase in reference to a Wicca Shop or an Herbal Medicine shop... I'm not sure why... I do know that many Wicca shops sell the "trendy vintage" clothes that are popular. Sarah > Andrea: > > I noticed the medieval trend in some young people, > and some pattern companies > even have goth wear that is obviously influenced by > medieval fashions and > Victorian "artistic" clothing. But what, please > tell, is sold at a "local > medieval shop"? We don't have any around here, and I > am dying to know! > > Gail Finke > whose medieval needs are more, well, medieval > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 08:28:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04472 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:28:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25078; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:45:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA22416 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:43:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22411 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:43:02 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6GPXCgDwN_ (4185) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:42:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:42:26 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: sailor's palm To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com Long ago and far away I lived on a boat , and one of the the chores was mending sails.The sailor's palm I had was a sort of leather strap that was fitted with a metal piece for pushing thru needles.It was rather thick and bulky and the metal par across the plam had little indentation much as a thimble has --but over a larger surface so the needles would'nt slip as you tried to push on them.(So, no, Deitmar , a spoon would'nt be as effective.) Even with a sailor's palm to halp me out, though , my hands got VERY sore.And the needles were huge, and quite nasty , if you goofed and missed the sail.And a boating hardware store, or ship's chadelry would be the best place o look for one.I would'nt waste my time on a plastic one--or it can be downright dangerous. Cheers , albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 08:38:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04487 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:38:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26316; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:56:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA24162 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:54:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spamgaae.compuserve.com (as-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.217.148]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24153 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:54:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.5) id JAA23891 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:54:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:53:10 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: Spinners list To: LIST historic costume Message-ID: <199909140953_MC2-84CE-799D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id HAA24157 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Melanie Wilson Anyone know of a spinners list ? Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 08:43:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04501 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:43:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26851; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:01:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA25046 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:58:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25038 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:58:57 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6HYa023990 (4254) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:58:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <33713159.250fae74@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:58:12 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: metal embroidery To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com You are probably thinking of 'or nue'--which 'painted pictures', using silk over a background of couched golden cords. One can acheive some beautiful detailed effects doing this.There was also a technique called 'broiderie anglaise', which used backgrounds of couched gold threads in ornate diapered patterns.The figures were worked in split stitch, using silk.This technique was quite highly developed in the 12th and 13th centuries --and was seen on a lot of the eclesiastical vestments. albra _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 09:20:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04604 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:20:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01851; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:38:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02908 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:35:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chupacabras.flash.net (chupacabras.flash.net [209.30.6.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02903 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:35:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p87.amax2.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.64.87]) by chupacabras.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04825 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:35:48 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37DE5E89.9C7BCC49@flash.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:41:13 -0500 From: "V. Renee Bedford" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: sailor's palm (was Handsewing question?) References: <199909132332.RAA21243@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "V. Renee Bedford" May I make a suggestion? Press your waxed thread with a barely-warm iron to meld wax with thread, discourages wax from flaking off. Also, be sure to thread the eye of the needle with the just-cut end of the thread. If you don't mind non-historic methods, try Thread Heaven instead of wax. Really does work better, especially in humidity. More portable and doesn't melt (and the glitter topping is so cute). THT, Renee _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 09:20:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04605 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:20:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01854; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:38:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02827 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:35:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02815; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:35:26 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:35:26 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear Message-Id: <199909141435.IAA02815@net.indra.com> To: Subject: Re: H-COST: h-costume, How many members? 384 ! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Lear Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04616 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:22:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02218; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:40:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03261 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:37:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03246; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:37:36 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:37:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear Message-Id: <199909141437.IAA03246@net.indra.com> To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Setting to Digest Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Lear Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04620 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:22:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02294; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:40:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03365 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:38:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03356; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:38:07 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:38:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909141438.IAA03356@net.indra.com> From: jweidman@invest.treas.state.mi.us Subject: H-COST: McClintock reprint available To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: jweidman@invest.treas.state.mi.us Hello, the list, I have just ordered "Old Irish and Highland Dress" by McClintock!. The reprint is now available at www.scotpress.com, 304-379-8803. I was so excited, I forgot to ask the price, so I am not sure what I just spent. No affil, just passing on an item of interest! Jane Weidman _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 09:51:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04725 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:51:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06575; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:09:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10953 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:06:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10940 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:06:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA27000 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:06:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA15452 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:06:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:06:55 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Ten-gore Greenland dress? Have pattern?/Re: H-COST: sailor's palm In-Reply-To: <19990914062925.68548.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed There's a website of it up at http://www.virtualelpaso.com/neverwinter/dress/dress.htm It's neat! Drea On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, L.L. Johnson wrote: > > -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" > > > >-Poster: aleed > > 10-gore greenland dress > > This sounds wonderful. Where might I find more information on this? Patterns > maybe? Whatever information you have will be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks much > > Lonna > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 10:46:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04812 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:46:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16642; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25727 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:01:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from www0q.netaddress.usa.net (www0q.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.24.46]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA25711 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:01:10 -0600 (MDT) From: griffinhold@usa.net Received: (qmail 27133 invoked by uid 60001); 14 Sep 1999 16:01:09 -0000 Message-ID: <19990914160109.27132.qmail@www0q.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.46 by www0q for [207.132.155.20] via web-mailer(M3.3.0.77) on Tue Sep 14 16:01:09 GMT 1999 Date: 14 Sep 99 10:01:09 MDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Gold thread embroidery X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.3.0.77) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id KAA25718 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: griffinhold@usa.net >Another technique used with metal(lic) threads was used in some >liturgical garments I've seen. It involved couching gold thread/thin >cord with colored threads, but the couching was very close together, >like satin stitching. The idea was to "paint with thread", using >different colors and allowing more or less of the gold to show for >shading. Unfortunately, the name of the technique escapes me right >now. It was very detailed and obviously time consuming That would be 'or nue' (I can't get the accent grave over the e). Good description BTW. I haven't run into a use of the technique on anything other than ecclesiastical vestments though. But it would look great on smaller (what I call an 'in my lifetime') size project like a belt pouch. I also saw a vestment using a combination of or nue and 3D embroidery if you really want your imagination to run wild. Lyn Gillespie ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 10:46:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04816 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:46:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05513; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:02:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA08631 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:59:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07623; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 08:55:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-159-176.s176.tnt7.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.159.176]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA10352; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:55:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006501befec0$dd47d1c0$b09faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Cc: "Vintage" , "h-needlework" , "Wear Digest" , "WearableArt" , "Fantasy" Subject: H-COST: Sneak Peek of Ball '99 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:53:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I wanted to let you all have a sneak peek of our Online Costume Ball '99, http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/Guest1.htm Enjoy... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 10:54:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04825 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:54:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13652; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:45:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20993 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:42:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay20.smtp.psi.net (relay20.smtp.psi.net [38.8.20.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20980 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:42:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.119.75.41] (helo=kdp.tiac.net) by relay20.smtp.psi.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11Quj3-0007Ek-00; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:42:33 -0400 From: "John Page" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan - military buttons Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:26:08 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "John Page" > I've once again come across the assertion that Elizabeth issued a royal > command that military uniforms have a line of buttons on the sleeves to > prevent soldiers from wiping their noses on their sleeves. I've seen > this statement several times, but it's never been footnoted to track > back to the original. Fact or folklore? If fact, where is it > documented? I think this one is folklore -- I've also heard the story attributed to Napoleon, Peter the Great & Catherine of Russia, and assorted others. It makes a good story, but I think it's more likely that the lines of buttons are artefacts of a time when the buttons were utilitarian.. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 11:11:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04846 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:11:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19653; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:28:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02084 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:25:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from falcon.canfield.com (falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02049 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:25:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Leslie (u6-46.wa.net [206.191.135.110]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA30619 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:32:26 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990914091312.035c1b80@mail.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslie@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:23:42 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: Seams in leather In-Reply-To: <199909140414.WAA05095@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Leslie Helms Perhaps someone else has posted this and I missed it. One feasible seam in leather, and the flattest one, is to overlap the two pieces and sew the overlap area. With light, supple leather the bulk isn't a problem, but heavier leathers don't fold flat. Obviously the overlap must be carefully figured, either by adding a small seam allowance to both meeting edges or by cutting one edge on the seam line and leaving an allowance on the other. When double-stitched, this seam is quite strong (it can be enhanced by glueing first) and it gives the general look of a felled seam. Leslie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 11:12:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04850 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:12:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19809; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:29:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02460 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:26:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02452 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:26:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p27.directcon.net [206.170.184.76]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA26179 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:25:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909141625.JAA26179@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Leather doublet questions Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >Can you get heat activated leather adhesives in the states retail; I know >you can in the trade , but can the ordinary joe? Is leather Weld like these? I've never heard of heat activated adhesives for leather, but I've been out of the business for a few years. Leather Weld is a white glue, wth some magical substances added. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 11:41:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04899 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:41:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24837; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:58:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA09864 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:55:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f56.hotmail.com [207.82.251.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA09852 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:55:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 67101 invoked by uid 0); 14 Sep 1999 16:55:09 -0000 Message-ID: <19990914165509.67100.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 140.244.146.62 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:55:08 PDT X-Originating-IP: [140.244.146.62] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: sailor's palm Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 09:55:08 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Thank you, Dave. I'm still going to check with my source, but now I can also haunt the local army/navy surplus stores. Lonna P.S. Would you be willing to scan some photos so our group can see what they look like? Thanks again L. >From: "LDMundy" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: >Subject: Re: H-COST: sailor's palm >Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:44:42 +0100 > > >-Poster: "LDMundy" > > I have a small collection . Its one of those silly things that I >collect -have to buy every one I see. Basically they are for working all >kinds of canvas; The best ones are ex-navy/army surplus (pre -1950 better >still pre 1930) and are really impressive; Thick boiled leather that covers >the palm and top of the hand with a hole for the thumb. In the middle one; >sometime two, dimpled and concave round metal pieces firmly sewn inside a >leather grommet arrangement. There are different styles; some are for tent >making. One is so stiff you can stand on it and it doesnt bend. >The military ones were issued as part of a tent repair kit that included >needles and pieces of canvas and felt and little cards of really tough >braided thread, all in a little green felt bag. I have seen a full kit >dated >I think 1898 go at auction for a couple of hundred pounds; But the same >pattern lasted for many many years. I have also seen more recent ones made >in plastic , but they are still quite bulky items and a sure fire way of >breaking needles >Dave > > >+++++++++++++++++. >L.D.Mundy >Editor.Heritage Matters > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 11:47:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04920 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:47:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25721; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:03:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11219 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:01:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f190.hotmail.com [207.82.251.79]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA11197 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:01:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 22801 invoked by uid 0); 14 Sep 1999 17:00:29 -0000 Message-ID: <19990914170029.22800.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 12.21.110.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:00:29 PDT X-Originating-IP: [12.21.110.240] From: "Karie Mitchell" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Not a red-head, and some other questions. Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 10:00:29 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" Alright! I hate to burst anyone's bubble but - I AM NOT A RED-HEAD! I am a brunette with blue-grey eyes. I have dyed my hair red previously. It started when I had mononucleosis and my hair turned grey. My mom thought it would be nice if I went back to school looking "normal", so she let me get some red tints added. I did go back to the bottle occasionally but am "straight" now :) I have some other questions: How many on this list do costuming professionally? How many are doing this as a hobby?' How many hours do you devote to sewing? I only do this as a hobby and don't get to spend much time on it. When I do have time, I occasionally forget and just turn the t.v. on without picking something up. (Augh - what a boob am I!) But I'm trying to improve. Have spent several evenings sewing a shirt by hand, working on an embroidery project, and last night began making an 'arming' vest for my husband, for him to suspend his chainmail legs from. Looking forward to your answers! Karie (AKA Allessandre) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 12:07:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04991 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:07:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25881; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:04:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11463 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:02:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11450 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:02:04 -0600 (MDT) From: Natekakar@aol.com Received: from Natekakar@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ZFa001988 (3977) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:01:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4065e48d.250fd96a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:01:30 EDT Subject: Re: Re: H-COST:Cartridge pleating question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) sub 7 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Natekakar@aol.com re: commercial patterns -- Catherine Beecher's 1840's work on Domestic Economy suggested that women buy one well-fitted dress, pick one half/side of it apart, and make a pattern from it -- then sew the dress back together! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 12:27:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05099 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:27:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02023; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:42:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20850 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:40:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20832 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:40:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem84.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.212] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11QwYo-00018h-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:40:07 +0100 Message-ID: <000201befed8$322a3310$d4065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <41931D742A1@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: "Bum-cleavage" Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:15:48 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Of course its part of the current fashion of "erghh-chic" . Its very difficult to explain; One of the major British dressing sins for many years has been the wearing of the short tails inside the underpants; This is a device used by men whos lack of bottom causes the shirt taills to work out of the trouser bad, and is intend to keep the top of the shirt pulled straight and smart. Ie its putting on a better face for the public while causing hidden problems, elsewhere Sometimes it has been called a sign of insecurity., many cases being unearthedntioned most notably Crippen However the great British Public will not stand for such things; When it was revealed that John Major was of this particular persuasion the British Public voted against him in the biggest landslide for many years. the moral being if a man does that with his shirt how can he be trusted to run a country and lead it into a new Millennium? I believe that this is not possible in the US/ most of my US bought shirts suddenly cease just below the waist; My UK ones have full tails which drape in a curve down to mid thigh.. Perhaps this is something that dropped at the time of independence. But then you are very particular about your politicians. Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters > -Poster: teddy1 > > > Dave is correct except that they aren't what I'd call "gentlemen" > and it should be pointed-out that men displaying bum cleavage are > usually the subject of jokes. > > Trust me, for the most part it is NOT a pretty sight. It's also not > uncommon and seems to be part of the modern way of men > wearing trousers. Not around their waists but sagging 'round their > hips. > > The other day, on the way home from work, I had the misfortune of > being behind a commuter as he climbed the stairs to the platform > at the station. He was clad in shirt, tiue, trousers and "smart" > shoes, adn had a jacket folded neatly over his arm. > > His trousers were so low-slung that they looked in danger of > dropping altogether and the crotch was hanging about an inch or > two above the knee.... > > > > Why do they do it? > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 12:43:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05122 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:43:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04321; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:58:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24541 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:55:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24526 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:55:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07153 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:55:44 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp211-250.worldonline.nl [195.241.211.250]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA21465 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:55:41 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909141755.TAA21465@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Handsewing question Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:59:40 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi all, Zelda wrote: > trying to find information about 1400 to 1500 > Dutch/Netherlands, of all classes. Look for paintings by Jan and Hubert van Eyk, Rogier van der Weyden, Dirc Bouts, Robert Campin, Hugo van der Goes, Hans Memling, Petrus Christus, Quinten Matsijs and all that lot.. They are wonderful for costume details. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 12:52:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05155 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:52:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05717; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:08:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27042 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:05:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27036 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:05:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem108.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.108] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11QwxX-0002sQ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:05:39 +0100 Message-ID: <002d01befedb$c3e4fe90$d4065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <19990914165509.67100.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: sailor's palm Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:52:48 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" > -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" > > > P.S. Would you be willing to scan some photos so our group can see what > they look like? The problem here is that they are in a display in our Lancashire premises; And myself and the scanner are both (overworked) in Birmingham; I can but try but promise naught. Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 12:55:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05167 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:55:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06348; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:11:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27651 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:08:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com (ms3.phoenix.com [134.122.1.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA27645 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:08:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:13:41 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: a Sailor's Palm described Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:07:45 -0700 Message-ID: <000001befedc$0d4b6e20$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" Dietmar posited>I've never really seen or used one, but from what I understand it is a spoon >shaped metal depression that fits into the palm of your hand and can be used >to push needles through many heavy layers. I believe they may be attached to a >sort of glove and that in a pinch you could probably use a soup spoon to >hobble together a home made variant. Well conjectured! It's a leather or canvas strap that partially covers the palm & back of hand; it fits across or around 2 fingers and is anchored at the wrist. (Gymnasts and trapeze people will recognize this style handguard - protection from ripped callouses.) On the Sailor's Palm, at the base of the thumb there is a small cup (maybe 3/4"), in hard rubber or plastic. Thread your needle. Strap the device on your hand. Insert needle into a lapped seam of sailcloth, (or 2 pieces of leather, or a corset), use the Palm to push the needle on thru the stiff, unyielding stuff. Draw the needle. Repeat. I find I often need a pair of pliers to draw the needle. Do not twist. You'll break the needle. There's another heavy-weight hand-sewing device usually stocked nearby. Looks like a heavy duty tambour hook, but runs on a very heavy (sail weight) "thread" that I certainly call cord; it's quite heavy. Looks speedy & handy. I dont know what it's called. Might be handy for medieval tent making & repair in the field. Buy: most hardware stores, leather shops, sailing paraphenalia shops. Camping shops? Outdoor sporting goods shops? --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 13:13:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05187 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:13:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08398; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:29:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA02111 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:27:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02098 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:27:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.161.142]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA23977 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:27:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37DE9407.6FA7E849@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:29:27 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Costuming: prof. or amateur References: <19990914170029.22800.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas For many of us, costuming is a lifestyle, whether you get paid for it or not. I suppose I might come under the catagory of talented volunteer, as I work with non-profit groups that rarely can afford to pay me. I've gotten the odd honorarium or travel expenses and occasionally get paid for a workshop. My husband is the bread-winner in the family. I work for one group (used to be two) as a Costume rental agent, arranging for their stock to be rented to other, similar groups. I also own a legal company for theatrical design and construction. My husband does the lights and set side as his avocation. I design costumes for Gilbert and Sullivan operettas and then supervises the volunteers making them. I get to build the outfits for the "Pavarotti" sized members of the cast, who can be a challenge to fit. Oh yes, I also sing with many of these groups at the same time as I'm dressing them. Makes it a bit complicated. If I made money, I would be considered a professional, but since I don't, I suppose I'm still an amateur. Pity there isn't a catagory between. I am constantly enlarging my costume library, since the public libraies around here suffer from "finger blight" or only have a few "fashion" books. When I need to do research, It's often during the times they're not open! I love finding out what the insides of old outfits look like and the "whys and wherefores" of their construction. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net Boston, MA USA area "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 13:23:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05214 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:23:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10019; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:39:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04345 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:37:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04334 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:37:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.161.142]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA28638 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:37:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37DE966B.F2B33586@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:39:39 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:H-Cost: "Bum-cleavage" References: <41931D742A1@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas Teddy, They wear their pants this way so they can say that their waist is still the same size as when they were in school. Of course, for some reason their inseam has shrunk also. They can't figure out why. I call them the "Belly prop-ers". They don't seem to "get it" that they would look slimmer in the right size pants for their girth, and, Horrors! they would never consider suspenders! I get them all the time in Theatre, and they really think they look better with their stomach held up and out with a belt. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 13:23:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05215 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:23:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09987; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:39:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04281 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:37:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04275 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:37:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-86-151.s151.tnt6.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.86.151]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA20735 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:37:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002f01befedf$c8ad1120$9756accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <19990914170029.22800.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: H-COST: Re: (was red head) 1997 list statistics Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:34:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" In 1997, I made a directory for the list members. At that time, the majority of people were hobbyist. I think the statistics were like 2/3 of the list. The professional costumers were designer/reproduction, product development, educators/students, and authors. The majority of the members were in the U.S. with California carrying the largest amount. Other countries represented were from the U.K., Canada, Australia, Germany, and the Netherlands. The largest time periods studied were 19th century, Elizabethan, and Medeval respectively. As far as associations, most were members of SCA and/or Costume Society of America members. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com > I only do this as a hobby and don't get to spend much time on it. When I do > have time, I occasionally forget and just turn the t.v. on without picking > something up. (Augh - what a boob am I!) But I'm trying to improve. Have > spent several evenings sewing a shirt by hand, working on an embroidery > project, and last night began making an 'arming' vest for my husband, for > him to suspend his chainmail legs from. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 13:34:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05253 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:34:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11555; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:50:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06858 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:48:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from na-ims.alcoa.com ([147.154.3.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06836 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:48:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by NA-IMS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:47:24 -0400 Message-ID: <0B3E3AA67456D311A9FC0000E889ED9809F4AF@dhcp-183-2.dpw.alcoa.com> From: "Fairchild, Connie E." To: "'h-costume-digest@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: RE: h-costume-digest V4 #581 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:42:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Fairchild, Connie E." > Karie Mitchell wrote: > > I have some other questions: 1. How many on this list do costuming professionally? 2. How many are doing this as a hobby?' 3. How many hours do you devote to sewing? Answers: 1. Not me, but would love to have the knowledge and craftswoman's-ship to do it professionally. 2. Yes, hobby only -- one of many -- oh, the trail of unfinished projects I have left behind................ I am a museum volunteer and do mending, repairs, and stablizing as I have time (working for a living prevents many hours otherwise spent in these interests)-- a great enjoyment. 3. Not nearly enough. Only a few hours now and then, but in between sewing projects there are the embroidery and other needlework projects. Dark brunette with red highlights and green eyes. Connie Fairchild _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 13:41:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05294 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:41:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12383; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:57:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA08271 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:54:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.134]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08252 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:54:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.net (ip117.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.117]) by penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13646 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:54:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DE6D9E.DF87A42A@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:45:37 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: wool question References: <199909140414.WAA05095@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Laurel Wilson >The result was a cloth that was heavy and practically impermeable. Also, >really good cloths might be raised and sheared repeatedly during the course of >their life as clothing--royal wardrbe accounts often have records of payments >made to shearers--which shows you how thick the cloth must have been. Yep. The household accounts of Eleanor, Countess of Leicester (the first non-royal household accounts extant) document her sending "Hick the Taylor" off to London to have some clothes sheared. As I recall, it wasn't cheap. However, it doesn't necessarily mean the cloth was thick--just dense. Susan Dear Susan: I stand corrected. 'Dense' is precisely what I meant. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 13:42:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05301 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:42:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12381; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:57:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA08290 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:54:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.134]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08284 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:54:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.net (ip117.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.117]) by penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13799 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:54:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DE6F0B.2C506A42@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 11:51:42 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: metallic embroidery References: <199909140831.CAA00175@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Laurel Wilson Somebody wrote: Another technique used with metal(lic) threads was used in some liturgical garments I've seen. It involved couching gold thread/thin cord with colored threads, but the couching was very close together, like satin stitching. The idea was to "paint with thread", using different colors and allowing more or less of the gold to show for shading. Unfortunately, the name of the technique escapes me right now. It was very detailed and obviously time consuming. This sounds similar to a technique called 'or nué'. All the kinds of metallic threads which have been mentioned were used in the Middle Ages. There's a book called "Embroiderers," by Kay Staniland, which was published by the University of Toronto as part of a really good series called 'Medieval Craftsmen,' which has excellent pictures and descriptions of medieval embroidery work and the materials it was made from. (ISBN: 0-8020-6915-0) Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 13:44:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05314 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:44:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13158; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:01:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09258 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:58:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09237 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:58:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem106.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.234] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11QxmX-00087j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:58:21 +0100 Message-ID: <008601befee3$207bfb20$d4065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <199909141625.JAA26179@zeus.directcon.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Leather doublet questions Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:50:24 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" > -Poster: Margo Anderson > I've never heard of heat activated adhesives for leather, but I've been out > of the business for a few years. Leather Weld is a white glue, with some > magical substances added. > Sound truly magickal Ishall set off in search; Thanks very much. Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 13:44:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05318 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:44:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13161; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:01:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09263 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:58:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09251 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:58:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem106.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.234] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11QxmY-00087j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:58:22 +0100 Message-ID: <008701befee3$21258190$d4065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <37DC80F7.16B4C5AB@flash.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan - military buttons Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:56:47 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" I have heard this one several times but never traced a source;; Its not practical either else they would be all the way up the arm; soldiers use the upper sleeve just like the rest of us. Dave> > > -Poster: Charlene Charette > > I've once again come across the assertion that Elizabeth issued a royal > command that military uniforms have a line of buttons on the sleeves to > prevent soldiers from wiping their noses on their sleeves. I've seen > this statement several times, but it's never been footnoted to track > back to the original. Fact or folklore? If fact, where is it > documented? > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 13:44:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05322 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:44:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13167; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:01:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09262 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:58:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09241 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 12:58:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem106.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.234] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11QxmV-00087j-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:58:20 +0100 Message-ID: <008501befee3$1f6beab0$d4065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <19990914170029.22800.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Some other questions.-answers Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:48:13 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" > > -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" > I have some other questions: > How many on this list do costuming professionally? No way! Wouldn't tolerate the thought for a moment. And I greatly admre anyone that does it for a living. I have a very low customer tolerance level I would end up end up in deep:::; Although I have made all of the costumes I use for guided walks characters as well as for the other shows that I no longer do; I write illustrate and photograph costumes now instead of wearing them professionally. Occasionaly I will draft out a pattern to help a friend as a favour. Maybe I could do the job but I certainly couldnt live on what some of my friends make. How they manage and with the things I dont have; families, mortgages etc is a miracle to me and then they have to cope with fussy people as well ARGGGH.! I am planning to start doing a small number of shoemaking demonstrations next year but just mainly for the free camping in nice company. But no way am I going into ongoing supplier /customer relationship by trying to sell anything. > How many are doing this as a hobby?' My hobby is embroidery in all of its forms, not so much a hobby more therapy and it fills my time that I have to spend away from the computer; It also the only thing I have space for; its very restful. The pieces get made into shoes, eventually. I have been known to carry the work around in my camera bag when on papparazzi type contracts, to while away the hours of waiting time; > How many hours do you devote to sewing? The embroidery counts yes? ......Not enough ; On a good day I aim at 3 or 4 hours, half of which is spent admiring it or looking for mislaid items. After some particularly gruelling jobs I have a frenzy at it for hours and hours until I return to some kind of human being. > Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 13:56:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05366 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:56:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15008; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:12:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA11716 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:09:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from williams.tricreations.com (williams.tricreations.com [207.156.174.93]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11701 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:09:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [38.27.179.19] (ip19.columbus6.oh.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.179.19]) by williams.tricreations.com (8.9.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA05915 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909141903.PAA05915@williams.tricreations.com> Subject: H-COST: Re: Status: hobby or professional? Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:13:07 -0400 x-sender: tr002203-elisee@williams.tricreations.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Elisee du Lyonnais To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elisee du Lyonnais Karie Mitchell wrote: >I have some other questions: >How many on this list do costuming professionally? Nope. I sell patterns and fabric for costuming, but do not produce the garments for resale or for any given group. I can barely keep my 11 year old in clothes! >How many are doing this as a hobby?' I think this would be my level at this point. It is peripheral to my profession, and I have done lots of garments, very few of which I have. But since the making of garments itself is not how I earn my living, I guess this is where I belong. >How many hours do you devote to sewing? Not nearly enough. I'm delving back into my first love, Tudor era, and actually making time to sew a couple of hours a day. Now if I can just get some new things done for _myself_. Lisa Brandt (AKA Lisee) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 14:34:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05414 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:34:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16879; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:24:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14677 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:21:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.vci.net (smtp.vci.net [207.162.160.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14659 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:21:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vci.net (ppp-169-70.vci.net [207.162.169.70]) by smtp.vci.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA16167 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:21:37 -0500 Message-ID: <37DEA0E7.900A44E3@vci.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:24:23 -0500 From: "schuck@vci.net" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr-FR,de,ru,es-AR,sv MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:spinners list References: <199909141740.LAA20890@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "schuck@vci.net" Yes! I'm on a list called Fibernet. It generally covers spinning and weaving topics. It is not quite as active as h-costume, but there are a lot of knowledgeable people on it. I have lost the info on how to join, but if you contact owner-fibernet-digest@Majordomo.net I'm sure they can help you. jb _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 14:34:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05417 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:34:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16867; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:24:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14667 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:21:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14639 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:21:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem59.barney.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.59] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11Qy8z-0001Tp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:21:33 +0100 Message-ID: <022001befee6$5e6d30e0$d4065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <19990914160109.27132.qmail@www0q.netaddress.usa.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Gold thread embroidery Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:09:54 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" More USeless information ; If you ever get the chance ;go see the collection of ecclesiastical vestments at Townley Hall near Burnley; Wow, many use the technique you mention very pictorial; take a torch they keep them in the dark Dave > > -Poster: griffinhold@usa.net > > >Another technique used with metal(lic) threads was used in some >liturgical > garments I've seen. It involved couching gold thread/thin >cord with colored > threads, but the couching was very close together, >like satin stitching. The > idea was to "paint with thread", using >different colors and allowing more or > less of the gold to show for >shading. Unfortunately, the name of the > technique escapes me right >now. It was very detailed and obviously time > consuming _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 14:34:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05420 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:34:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16864; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:24:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14658 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:21:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14650 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:21:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem59.barney.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.59] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11Qy90-0001Tp-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:21:35 +0100 Message-ID: <022101befee6$5f218cc0$d4065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <000001befedc$0d4b6e20$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: a Sailor's Palm described Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:18:37 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" > -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" > There's another heavy-weight hand-sewing device usually stocked nearby. > Looks like a heavy duty tambour hook, but runs on a very heavy (sail weight) > "thread" that I certainly call cord; it's quite heavy. Looks speedy & > handy. I dont know what it's called. Might be handy for medieval tent > making & repair in the field. > Is this what I tend to call ,perhaps wrongly, as a "stitching awl" like a heavy handle spike but with a hole or hook near the point. I have seen them used for stitching bales of things like cotton and wool; It is pushed through and the free end is pulled and looped back and doesnt need knotting; Also I have seen a similar but smaller thing used on those big rope fenders they used to have on boats before old car tyres? I am sorry this list is turning into "old tools" Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 14:35:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05423 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:35:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16451; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:21:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13995 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:18:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13982 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:18:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FI2000ALDLM08@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:17:47 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:25:55 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: a Sailor's Palm described In-reply-to: <199909141909.NAA11740@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990914142555.0079d5e0@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson "Cynthia Barnes" wrote: >...Well conjectured! It's a leather or canvas strap that partially covers the >palm & back of hand; it fits across or around 2 fingers and is anchored at >the wrist. (Gymnasts and trapeze people will recognize this style >handguard - protection from ripped callouses.) On the Sailor's Palm, at the >base of the thumb there is a small cup (maybe 3/4"), in hard rubber or >plastic. A good description, although mine doesn't have such a cup. Mine has what looks like the end of a metal thimble wrapped in rawhide. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 14:35:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05426 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:35:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15866; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:16:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA13020 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:14:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13008 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:14:17 -0600 (MDT) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6WKHa20496 (4446) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:13:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <594a4dc3.250ff857@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:13:27 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Boring clothes? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com I'm often surprised at how "normal" many of the people I know who are into costuming look out of costume, although, given my mostly monochromatic wardrobe, many folks I know would probably say the same about me...what can I say, my mom dressed me in pastels as a kid and I've been rebelling ever since. ;-) 80 percent of my wardrobe is black: velvet dresses of all shapes and styles, 40s rayon dresses, 90s cotton dresses, platform flip flops, a multitude of granny boots, clunky heels, mules, brocade jackets, leather jackets, long straight rayon skirts, "slinky" a-line skirts, Chinese blouses, oxford shirts, pirate shirts, t shirts , etc., all in black. The rest is more of the above styles in olive, red, wine, purple, navy or chocolate brown. And occasionally checkerboard black/white. Most of the skirts I wear for everyday I make myself, mostly bias cut a-line short or long skirts with elastic waists. Made many of the dresses myself too, usually little 40s styled fit & flared numbers. Those I don't make I find in vintage/thirft stores or in boutiques or even at target. I don't wear pants or jeans much, I just don't think they're very flattering or comfortable. In the winter I might wear wool men's styled pants but that's about it. I do sometimes incorporate costume elements into what I'm wearing but mostly for special occasions. A velvet cape or cocoon coat over an evening dresss for example. One outfit got a lot of complements at a lounge show I went to was a scarlet teens era jacket with a matching miniskirt I made and red fez. I've been known to wear my Victorian or regency dresses to special occasions as well. I think it's great that the girls today are wearing something more orginal than the typical boring old prom dress. Who knows, the recent glut of costume movies may inspire a whole new generation of costumers... Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 15:10:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05570 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:10:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25605; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:26:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28785 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:23:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28771 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:23:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id ELHLL643; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:21:35 EDT To: H-Needlework@Ansteorra.ORG Cc: H-Costume@indra.com, nlazarus@home.com Subject: H-COST: Re: [STEPS] Gold thread Message-ID: <19990914.120054.4791.3.cley@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-12,14-15,17-21 From: cynthia j ley Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:21:35 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: cynthia j ley Please send replies to Rose at nlazarus@home.com, and thank you for your help! She is not on this list. yis, Arlys --------- Begin forwarded message ---------- To: Naomi Lazarus On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Naomi Lazarus wrote: Does anyone know where I can get _real_ gold thread, suitable for couching and lace-making? I mean actual gold wire, drawn fine enough for these purposes? I have a project that I have been going to great lengths to make from period materials, and I would really hate to have to finish it with plastic-wrapped cotton-poly crap from the fabric store. I also need a price estimate, if that's possible. (This could easily cost more than everything else combined.) ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 15:15:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05584 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:15:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26482; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:31:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA00330 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:28:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.vcnet.com (mailadm@mail.vcnet.com [209.239.239.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00317 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:28:44 -0600 (MDT) From: KaosWarior@vcnet.com Received: from [209.239.238.137] by mail.vcnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-39954U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA505 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:28:42 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:29:20 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: "Bum-cleavage" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: KaosWarior@vcnet.com >-Poster: "LDMundy" > >I believe that this is not possible in the US/ most of my US bought shirts >suddenly cease just below the waist; My UK ones have full tails which drape >in a curve down to mid thigh.. Perhaps this is something that dropped at the >time of independence. But then you are very particular about your >politicians. >Dave > >L.D.Mundy No, it's just that the CEO types feel its wasteful on something that can't be seen and are so cheap that they don't care about making things well, but cut corners so they won't have to "cut" into the bottom line ;-) just cheap arse bas---ds! just my $.02 Scott _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 15:28:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05624 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:28:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28648; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:44:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03527 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:41:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03510 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:41:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem14.barney.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.14] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11QzOG-0008J8-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:41:24 +0100 Message-ID: <028201befef1$86065d10$d4065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: H-Cost: "Bum-cleavage" Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:40:08 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" > -Poster: KaosWarior@vcnet.com > > > US bought shirts > >suddenly cease just below the waist > > No, it's just that the CEO types feel its wasteful on something that can't be > seen and are so cheap that they don't care about making things well, but cut > corners so they won't have to "cut" into the bottom line ;-) > > just cheap arse bas---ds! > AAHa At last the derivation of the this particular well known saying is made clear to me I thank you. Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 15:59:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05655 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:59:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04074; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:15:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11422 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:13:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11415 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:13:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.164] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Qzst-0002wj-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:13:04 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:10:56 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Costuming: prof. or amateur In-Reply-To: <37DE9407.6FA7E849@mediaone.net> References: <19990914170029.22800.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I don't even consider myself worthy of the title yet. 'Nuff said? I do it because I am interested in the clothing, and in learning to sew/tailor better.-- Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 16:01:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05671 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:01:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04335; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:17:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11832 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:14:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11802 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:14:52 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id ELHPLYB9; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:13:54 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:05:51 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabethan - military buttons Message-ID: <19990914.160809.-435891.1.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-6,8-38 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com Another problem with having Queen Bess issue that order is that there were no military uniforms at that time. Individual comapnies might have worn some form of their officer's livery, but England itself had no standing army, so Bess couldn't have mandated anything concerning them. Karen On Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:56:47 +0100 "LDMundy" writes: > > -Poster: "LDMundy" > > > I have heard this one several times but never traced a source;; > Its not > practical either else they would be all the way up the arm; > soldiers use > the upper sleeve just like the rest of us. > Dave> > > > > > -Poster: Charlene Charette > > > > I've once again come across the assertion that Elizabeth issued a > royal > > command that military uniforms have a line of buttons on the > sleeves to > > prevent soldiers from wiping their noses on their sleeves. I've > seen > > this statement several times, but it's never been footnoted to > track > > back to the original. Fact or folklore? If fact, where is it > > documented? > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 16:03:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05691 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:03:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04712; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:19:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12296 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:16:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12284 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:16:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.164] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Qzwa-0003NZ-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:16:52 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:14:45 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: (was red head) 1997 list statistics In-Reply-To: <002f01befedf$c8ad1120$9756accf@e4c2n6> References: <19990914170029.22800.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 02:34 PM 09/14/1999 -0400, you wrote: -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" In 1997, ... ... the majority of people were hobbyist. ... with California carrying the largest amount. And red-headed, either by nature or by choice, for the most part. Very interesting... what other factors may we find in our explorations of this topic ? Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 16:04:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05698 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:04:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04875; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:20:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12442 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:17:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12435 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:17:34 -0600 (MDT) From: trekona@erols.com Received: from erols.com (207-172-133-239.s239.tnt6.col.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.133.239]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id RAA22847 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:17:22 -0400 (EDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: What to do with a Uniquely You Date: Tue, 14 Sep 99 21:18:17 GMT Message-ID: References: <000001befe13$5785c1d0$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> X-Mailer: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00] Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: trekona@erols.com Ah, maybe you can help me! It sounded like you've done quite a bit of reshaping of your Uniquely You "Cynthia Barnes" wrote: > Some modifications: > I have reshaped mine somewhat [snipped] Here's my problem: I bought the largest size they have, which still needs to be padded up a bit to get to *my* size - I think there's a 6" difference at the hip, among other areas. So my question is, what kind of glue can I use on this foam that will hold but won't dissolve the foam? I'm gonna need to do a bit of reshaping on it, obviously I can't just patch it here and there. I'm not sure that just wrapping foam batting/polyfill would be substantial enough. Any ideas? -Judy Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 16:09:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05713 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:09:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05549; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:25:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA13908 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:23:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13875 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:23:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scv3.apple.com (A17-129-200-139.apple.com [17.129.200.139]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06068 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:22:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [17.202.21.54] (decaga.apple.com [17.202.21.54]) by scv3.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA11903 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:22:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909142122.OAA11903@scv3.apple.com> Subject: H-COST: What to Do with a Uniquely You Date: Tue, 14 Sep 99 14:28:46 -0700 x-sender: gdecamp@shell12.ba.best.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Gail DeCamp To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gail DeCamp Cynthia Barnes (hi Cin!) wrote: >Do not get anything *except* an Uniquely You. They're fantastic! Expensive, >tho'. Here's how to share: buy 2 covers for the dummy. When it's your turn >w/ the dummy, take your friends cover off, put your cover on. I respectfully beg to differ; I think that if you try this, you will find it a big pain in the patootie. (Sue Toorans and I ordered one for me, then made the cover for it and applied the cover to the form in an extended two-person versus-one-dress-dummy wrestling match, complete with grunting, sweating, struggling, and many more obscenities than I usually admit that I know. ) Now I refuse to lose or gain weight, because if I did we'd have to refit the dang cover and get it back on the dummy. My humble opinion: Bite the bullet and buy one for each of you. If you can find a used one, you can probably do this cheaply. Good luck! Gail DeCamp _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 16:20:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05751 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:20:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07251; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:36:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA16608 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:34:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail3.anet.net (mail3.anet.net [216.2.98.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16596 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:34:02 -0600 (MDT) From: rima@anet.net Received: from [216.2.96.40] (216.2.96.224) by mail3.anet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0); Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:39:37 -0800 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909141909.NAA11740@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:29:54 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Pro's and non-pros....and custom shoes! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rima@anet.net >> Karie Mitchell wrote: >> >> I have some other questions: > 1. How many on this list do costuming professionally? > 2. How many are doing this as a hobby?' > 3. How many hours do you devote to sewing? Wow. 1. Not me. Although if one more person asks if they can buy my Ca.1550 men's shirt (w/lace and pearls) off my back, I might reconsider! 2. About two years ago I looked in the mirror and realized I was wearing GAP. I had been assimilated by the Borg. I vowed never to wear jeans and a T again! Now I make my own stuff, and since there are hundreds of years of styles to choose from, I just go for what I like. Horrifying, I know, to most SCA folks, since I'll wear a 1550 shirt with a 1750 coat (yeah, men's, even though I'm a gal), shoes from 1650 and pants that just plain work for me. But hey, at least I KNOW it's wrong. And say so, if someone asks. Love those houpelands too! And those Italian Renaissance gowns....and....and.... 3. Not enough. I run two little companies (yeah, two. *sheesh* what was I thinking????), so basically I set aside a day a month or so and do nothing BUT sew. Wish it were more. But then I spin and weave too, so it's amazing I get anything done! Or that my darling hubby hasn't put me out! Hey, any of you pro's out there know where I can find someone to make me a pair of shoes for me! Something vaguely Rembrandt/Restoration - heel, high vamp, square toe? I've had great luck with folks building shoes for me, but I can't find anyone who has the wherewithall to do this period. Thanks guys! Love reading this list! Rima _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 16:20:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05755 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:20:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07261; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:36:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA16611 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:34:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail3.anet.net (mail3.anet.net [216.2.98.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16600 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:34:03 -0600 (MDT) From: rima@anet.net Received: from [216.2.96.40] (216.2.96.224) by mail3.anet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0); Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:39:37 -0800 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909110640.AAA28000@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:17:28 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Dress forms Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rima@anet.net Michelle answered me: >>OK, so who knows of a terrific dress form that 's out there, that's easily >>adjustable between two women's sizes - my friend and I wanna share, but >>she's 4 inches taller and thinner! >>Rima > Yeah, we'll have to get out the tape measure and learn the ugly truth! Glad to know height won't be a factor, though, since my pal is 4 inches taller than me! > I think it really depends on how much of a size difference there is >between you. I think most of them are made to cover a small range of sizes. >Height doesn't matter so much. > I was wondering thought, How are you go to do this without a fight? I >don't think I could share. ;) I would want it ALL the time! LOL! Well, we're good pals, and have wildly different skeds. Funny thing is, we both have teeny cars, both convertibles, so I have a feeling a lot of people are gonna see us driving down the roads with tops down, and dummy in the passenger seat! Zelda asks: >Has anyone handsewn a corset, dresses or doublet? Any advice >>would be helpful. Especially about handsewing in an authentic manner (if >>I'm stuck doing it, why not have a little fun with it!!) or materials or >>methods to avoid. >> >>Zelda > Back stitching is a must for the corset. I've done this. A long time ago. Outta time for such things these days. *sigh* Actually, I think it's BETTER for really fitted garments, since handstitching is a little stretchier than machine. There's a neat little book on handsewing that I got from Townsend. Sorry, don't have it in front of me, but it's got everything you need to know, and cost about $5. And Carrie says: >No, I don't own a neon pink spandex crushed velvet minidress... There, see! Others have escaped from the Borg too! ;-D Rima _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 16:21:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05759 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:21:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07254; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:36:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA16689 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:34:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail3.anet.net (mail3.anet.net [216.2.98.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16648 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:34:12 -0600 (MDT) From: rima@anet.net Received: from [216.2.96.40] (216.2.96.224) by mail3.anet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0); Tue, 14 Sep 1999 13:39:37 -0800 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909131731.LAA20634@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 14:33:52 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Wool stuff (Kinda long....sorry....) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rima@anet.net Merouda answers: >Gabardine is not a fulled wool but a very fine weave. My dictionary says that >it is a worsted cotton, wool, or rayon twill cloth. Don't know what they >might >have called it in the 14th century but twill weaves are certainly appropriate >for that time. Very appropriate in fact. If I remember correctly from my weaving books, fulling showed up, in England, anyway, around 600. Somewhere around 1100 (maybe earlier, but I know they had it by then) they had figured out how to hook up fullers mallets (for pounding the cloth to "full" but not "felt" it) to waterwheels. See, after you weave wool, you want to "lock" the fibers together to make it strong, but you want to do that without "felting" the fabric so you can no longer see the weave. Wool reacts to both agitation and especially to heat. So, depending on how you agitate, pound, and heat your wool, a fabric woven one way, but fulled in another can look and feel quite different from it's sister from the same loom. Dave said: >The large bales of wool are supported on slowly rotating beams while being thumped by huge water driven trip hammers. The whole contraption is built >over the river and the bales are constantly wetted ; That part's right, but: >I think but I am may be completely wrong that it was here that I was told.- Human urine was collected from the ale houses to soak the wool in prior to >fulling and that the best came from the houses where strong ale >was drunk; I am trying to remmeber if this is correct or it is a story that I picked up >somewhere completely different; Any ideas? Well, urine was collected to make amonia for cleaning in general. I'm not sure I'd want to use something that strong on wool. Maybe MAYBE to wash the wool before spinning if it were really greasy???? But you'd have to be careful. Wool's a pretty delicate fiber. Someone also asked: >Can worsted be fulled? I had the impression that it could not. OK, this one I know: Worsted has to do with how the thread is spun in the first place. You can spin "woolen", in which the ends of the fibers are allowed to stick out of the thread, or "worsted", in which they the ends of the fibers are caught in the twist and few escape to stick out. Think "fuzzy" and "slick". Which is why "worsteds" don't make you itch as much - they don't have all those fuzzy ends sticking out. And finally, someone asked if there was a spinner's list. Probably. But there are tons of fiber folks, spinners, weavers, and felters on the Weaving list. Go to http://www.quilt.net/weaving.html - great bunch o' folks there. Just saved my hinie on something I'm about to weave. Rima Spiderwoman Weaver and Spinner (with the most yummy merino wool on my wheel this week, spun "woolen"!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 16:24:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05763 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:24:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA07796; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:40:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA17676 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:38:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17655 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:37:59 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6AARa22319 (4253) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:37:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:37:21 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Costuming: prof. or amateur To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 9/14/1999 11:27:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time, janicedals@mediaone.net writes: << I suppose I might come under the catagory of talented volunteer, as I work with non-profit groups that rarely can afford to pay me. I've gotten the odd honorarium or travel expenses and occasionally get paid for a workshop. My husband is the bread-winner in the family. >> Like Janice, most of my costuming has been for non-profit groups that pay me only a nominal fee, or reimbursement for out-of-pocket. Recently, however, I've been hired for three jobs running which all paid fairly well and were very rewarding, but no more so for being paid. I'd consider Janice a professional "semi-professional." Certainly the ability to do fewer jobs well is preferable to me, rather than doing lots of jobs, frantically hoping I'm doing them justice, but needing the money. Not that everyone is in this position, but it can happen, given the low pay scale for costumers. At the end of the day, the main difference seems to be that my patient and wonderfully supportive husband feels less stressed out that the (insert tremendously costly but marvelously perfect period item) that I purchased myself because we just had to have it for the show, didn't cost HIM anything! I'd do it paycheck or not, but really must say I love the added bonus of being compensated on some level for my skills, especially when it gives me yet another excuse to support my not insubstantial jewelry/fabric/other costuming goodies "habits" !! angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "So far as my coin would stretch; and where it would not I have used my credit." King Henry the Fourth; I, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 16:58:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05786 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:58:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11988; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:14:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA25641 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:10:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25628 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:10:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.96.178.56] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11R0mq-000072-00; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:10:52 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990914220738.00743460@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:07:38 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: sailor's palm Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 11:22 PM 9/13/99 PDT, you wrote: > >-Poster: "L.L. Johnson" > >Hullo > >Delurking a bit here to ask -- What is a sailor's palm and where can I find >one? Sounds like it could be something I can really use. I'm one of those >people who can't stand to use a thimble. They make my fingertips itch. >Besides, I need to actually feel what I'm stitching even if I end up with >pock marks in my fingertips (which go away after a while as my sewing >calluses begin to build up). > >Thanks > >Lonna > A palm is sort of a palm thimble, and like any thimble it takes some practice to get used to. It has a strap that fits over the hand. Usually that strap is connected by a staple, which is best removed and replaced with stitches. They can be got at good ship chandlers (sailing stuff) and some leatherworking shops, though I understand those are getting harder to find. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 17:25:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05805 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:24:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15787; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:41:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA02526 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:38:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02518 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:38:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (d-ma-superpop-21.ici.net [207.180.40.21]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA13095 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:38:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909142238.SAA13095@bajor.ici.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Some other questions.-answers Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:38:31 -0400 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id QAA02520 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Irene leNoir > How many on this list do costuming professionally? I have occasionally made outfits for sale, but most people just aren't willing to pay what it's worth. I have 'business cards' that I made up for personal use so people don't have to write stuff on a scrap of paper that'll get lost. They have my society name, arms, phone number, email website, etc. They also have a little line that says "seamstress extraordinaire - custom work at outrageous rates". Now whenever anyone asks me "can you make me that?" I hand them my card. If they still want to talk after reading that, then I'm willing to talk. (Am I the only person who keeps getting asked to make stuff for people who say they're willing to pay, but who somehow think they're going to get a houppelande for thirty bucks?) > How many are doing this as a hobby? That's what most of my costuming falls under. Stuff I make for myself and my lord for use in the SCA. An occasional gift for a friend. > How many hours do you devote to sewing? As others have said - not nearly enough. Probably averaging about 8 hours a month? Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 17:25:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05809 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:25:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15861; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:42:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA02718 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:39:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02710 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:39:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p2.directcon.net [206.170.184.51]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA09711 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:39:28 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 15:39:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909142239.PAA09711@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: (was red head) 1997 list statistics Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson ... ... the majority of >people were hobbyist. ... with California carrying the largest >amount. > And red-headed, either by nature or by choice, for the most >part. Very interesting... what other factors may we find in our >explorations of this topic ? I'd bet money that a statistically significant number of us are "plus size". Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 17:55:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05830 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:55:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20151; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:11:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA09864 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:09:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09858 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:09:19 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6DXGa23997 (4253) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:08:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:08:37 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Some other costuming questions.-answers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 9/14/1999 3:39:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, irene@ici.net writes: << (Am I the only person who keeps getting asked to make stuff for people who say they're willing to pay, but who somehow think they're going to get a houppelande for thirty bucks?) >> not hardly. I get people who say "I want to hire you, can you make this?" etc., and then they say "because I can't afford those Ren Faire prices" Then I have to explain that while I balk at those "prices" it's only because I can save the labor if I make it myself. By the time they add my labor back onto the materials, they won't save any money hiring a seamstress. it never hurts to try to educate them, but generally only those with a high value on aesthetics shell out the necessary cash. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "Be not afraid of greatness; some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them." Twelfth-Night, II, v - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 17:57:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05834 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:57:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20407; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:13:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10211 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:11:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10195 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:10:59 -0600 (MDT) From: DRGurley@aol.com Received: from DRGurley@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6FNCa28682 (6397) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:09:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:09:56 EDT Subject: H-COST: redhead hobby seamstress (sounds like a personal ad ) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: DRGurley@aol.com In a message dated 9/14/99 5:41:54 PM Central Daylight Time, margo@directcon.net writes: > I'd bet money that a statistically significant number of us are "plus size". As a mostly lurker, I thought I'd chime in for a moment: I am a hobby-seamstress. I mostly sew costumes for my husband, myself and various friends for renfaires. However, I've received enough requests for garb that I'm considering some simple stuff through the winter to sell to newbies as the season starts again. I spend about 3 hours a week sewing. If it's not garb, I'm stiching whatever is handy to keep my 7 year old in clothes--she has a remarkable way of destroying them! I also like to make my own clothes as long as they are not too involved-my skill is evolving. I also do needlework. I'm learning to crochet and do a very simple level of blackwork. I am not "plus size". In fact, I'm the opposite and fall into the petite category as I am a mere 5'2", 125 lbs. The thing that throws me when trying to purchase clothes (especially underpinnings) is that I am rather "well endowed" at 36DD-29-38. The perfect short hourglass . I am, however, a redhead by choice! I am a natural dishwater blonde with blue/green/grey eyes depending on my mood. I've been an auburn redhead for about 5 years and don't know if I will ever go back. (I've known my DH only 2 years--wonder what he'd think if I came home blonde??) I'm truly enjoying this thread. It's nice to have mental pictures of those of you from whom I gather advice. It's even more rewarding to learn that a majority of this list are professional or semi- or mostly-professional seamstresses. DaniG _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 17:59:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05840 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:59:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20661; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:15:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10566 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:13:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10555 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:13:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA20694 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:17:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:17:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: off topic: a new toy Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> I just aquired (rather unexpectedly) a used New Home "streamliner" sewing machine (a word of advice: don't buy sewing machines from thrift stores if you don't have a car and your destination is several blocks away...) and I find I know nothing really about the thing. Has anybody had good or bad experiences with one? Can anyone offer advice or a source for an instruction manual? It works smoothly and quietly, and seems pretty straight forward, but I'm curious about the thing. Thanks for your time Emma _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 18:08:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05888 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:08:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21886; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:25:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12243 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:22:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12236 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:22:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (d-ma-superpop-21.ici.net [207.180.40.21]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA14966 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:21:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909142321.TAA14966@bajor.ici.net> Subject: H-COST: Dimensions for Hedeby Dress Fragment? Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:22:08 -0400 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id RAA12237 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Irene leNoir I'm hoping someone will be able to help me with an obscure question. I know that a fragment of a garment was found at an archeological dig at Hedeby. I know it is widely believed to be from a Viking-era apron or tube dress, and I've heard different theories on how the dress should be reconstructed from this fragment. The fragment in question looks approximately like so (bad ASCII art follows) ---------- | | | | | | | | | \ | \ | \ | \ | \ | \ | \ ----------------- What I'm wondering is.. .. Does anyone have any references that give the dimensions of this fragment? Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 18:08:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05892 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:08:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21869; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12263 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:22:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f207.hotmail.com [207.82.251.98]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA12256 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:22:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 7617 invoked by uid 0); 14 Sep 1999 23:21:46 -0000 Message-ID: <19990914232146.7616.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 206.172.240.176 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:21:46 PDT X-Originating-IP: [206.172.240.176] From: "Andrea navin" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: local medieval shop Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:21:46 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea navin" You know what? That is a good question! Nothing really "authentic" (zippers anyone?). I think I will have to take a field trip down their this weekend (hopefully if I have time)! Oh what fun it will be to freak out the sales people with my clipboard and pencil:" Do you have any documentation for this outfit?" Even better: I should bring a SCA-er with me! Andrea (Maybe I'' hit the Victorian shop as well!) But what, please tell, is sold at a "local >medieval shop"? We don't have any around here, and I am dying to know! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 18:10:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05916 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:10:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22167; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:26:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12619 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:24:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (sight.vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12611 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:24:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn30.usr-tc1.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.249.90]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA10910 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:24:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <000d01beff09$ddc64660$5af9a2d0@default> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Some other costuming questions.-answers Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:35:39 -0600 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" > In a message dated 9/14/1999 3:39:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, irene@ici.net > writes: > > << (Am I the only > person who keeps getting asked to make stuff for people who say they're > willing to pay, but who somehow think they're going to get a houppelande > for thirty bucks?) >> By no means! I make Elizabethan shirts for my DH - blackworked collars, cuffs, shirtfronts; counted-by-thread pleats; embellished seams, every single stitch by hand, every blackwork design original and never worked again (I usually really really HATE that pattern after finishing one garment with it) an average of 300-400 hours of work. Someone admires it and then adds "what would you charge for one just like that? Fifty bucks?" Um, sorry, but my great-great grandma made a better wage than that doing piecework for southern cotton mills....... Liadain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 18:11:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05920 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:11:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22303; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:27:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12714 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:24:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from exchange.acer.edu.au (exchange.acer.edu.au [203.2.133.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12698 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:24:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by exchange.acer.edu.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:20:11 +1000 Message-ID: From: Harvey Georgia To: "'H-costume'" Subject: Re: H-COST: Boring clothes? Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:20:04 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Harvey Georgia On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, KATHARINE WHISLER wrote: > > So, here's my question: how do you folks tend to dress in your everyday > life, when you think you are dressed nicely? Do you employ a > fashionable/historical flair, or do you go for simple & basic? > Finally catching up on these wonderful posts. I have butt-length black hair (from a bottle) which presently has 4 blue full length hair extensions in it - not the plaited ones, but they are long and straight. My hair is naturly wavy. I tend to also dress in long skirts - the longer the better. I'm always very careful on the stairs at work to hold the hems up, as other people have a habit of stepping on them. I tend to favour more hourglass shapes, as it's what I have. I'd love to be able to wear 20s, but my bust is waaaay to big for that. I wear black and purple (yep, a goth). Lately I've been wearing a lot of 50s stuff - it's still available in bigger sizes (yay). I also wear granny boots 99% of the time, mostly as I have very bad arthritic ankles, and shoes just plain hurt. For dressing up, my favourite is to mix and match modern and older clothes to make a kind of fairy tale Victorian. Work usually finds me in a very long skirt and tshirt, or sometimes a shirt, or long, flowing dresses. Most of my sewing is costuming, but I'm trying to find time to make mundane stuff - the prices in dept. stores are just *too* scary. If I do buy 'off the rack' items, they are most likely from the ethnic-hippy stores - the kind that make a fortune out of long velvet and crinkle rayon dresses. Cheers Georgia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 18:17:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05954 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:17:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22977; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:33:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13825 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:30:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com (ms3.phoenix.com [134.122.1.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA13815 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:30:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:35:02 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: , "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: RE: What to do with a Uniquely You Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:29:05 -0700 Message-ID: <000001beff08$f065d7a0$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" Joan >>> So my question is, what kind of glue can I use on this foam that will hold but won't dissolve the foam? I'm gonna need to do a bit of reshaping on it, obviously I can't just patch it here and there. I just snipped & tucked & wrapped. Didnt glue. Personally, I'd experiment w/ white glue for several reasons: it's water soluble (and therefore undo-able), it's likely to be non-reactive as there are no alcohols, esters or other solvents of plastics in it. White glue wont be very pliable, so this might not be a good solution in some body areas. Experiment! Wrapped w/ cotton quilt batt & medical tape - sticks to lots of stuff and it's a throwaway solution to what are, for me, temporary adjustments. I still havent got the perfect solution for making my Uniquely You emulate the same amount of "dropped waist" that I have. This is a common dancer's fit problem. The CF waist is slightly (~1") lower than the CB waist line. Hanging skirts on grain on a dropped waist can be challenging. It's even harder when your dummy doesnt match the "target" body shape. Grrrrrrrrr, --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." ------------------------------ From: trekona@erols.com Date: Tue, 14 Sep 99 21:18:17 GMT Subject: Re: H-COST: What to do with a Uniquely You - -Poster: trekona@erols.com Ah, maybe you can help me! It sounded like you've done quite a bit of reshaping of your Uniquely You "Cynthia Barnes" wrote: > Some modifications: > I have reshaped mine somewhat [snipped] Here's my problem: I bought the largest size they have, which still needs to be padded up a bit to get to *my* size - I think there's a 6" difference at the hip, among other areas. So my question is, what kind of glue can I use on this foam that will hold but won't dissolve the foam? I'm gonna need to do a bit of reshaping on it, obviously I can't just patch it here and there. I'm not sure that just wrapping foam batting/polyfill would be substantial enough. Any ideas? -Judy Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 18:19:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05961 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:19:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23336; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:36:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14325 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:33:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com (ms3.phoenix.com [134.122.1.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA14319 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:33:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:37:47 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: Cc: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: RE: What to do with a Uniquely You Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 16:31:51 -0700 Message-ID: <000101beff09$533ba940$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" Joan >>> So my question is, what kind of glue can I use on this foam that will hold but won't dissolve the foam? I'm gonna need to do a bit of reshaping on it, obviously I can't just patch it here and there. I just snipped & tucked & wrapped. Didnt glue. Personally, I'd experiment w/ white glue for several reasons: it's water soluble (and therefore undo-able), it's likely to be non-reactive as there are no alcohols, esters or other solvents of plastics in it. White glue wont be very pliable, so this might not be a good solution in some body areas. Experiment! Wrapped w/ cotton quilt batt & medical tape - sticks to lots of stuff and it's a throwaway solution to what are, for me, temporary adjustments. I still havent got the perfect solution for making my Uniquely You emulate the same amount of "dropped waist" that I have. This is a common dancer's fit problem. The CF waist is slightly (~1") lower than the CB waist line. Hanging skirts on grain on a dropped waist can be challenging. It's even harder when your dummy doesnt match the "target" body shape. Grrrrrrrrr, --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." ------------------------------ From: trekona@erols.com Date: Tue, 14 Sep 99 21:18:17 GMT Subject: Re: H-COST: What to do with a Uniquely You - -Poster: trekona@erols.com Ah, maybe you can help me! It sounded like you've done quite a bit of reshaping of your Uniquely You "Cynthia Barnes" wrote: > Some modifications: > I have reshaped mine somewhat [snipped] Here's my problem: I bought the largest size they have, which still needs to be padded up a bit to get to *my* size - I think there's a 6" difference at the hip, among other areas. So my question is, what kind of glue can I use on this foam that will hold but won't dissolve the foam? I'm gonna need to do a bit of reshaping on it, obviously I can't just patch it here and there. I'm not sure that just wrapping foam batting/polyfill would be substantial enough. Any ideas? -Judy Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 18:23:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05975 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:23:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23918; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:39:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15023 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:36:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15004 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:36:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA01111 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:06:49 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA05504; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:14:28 +0930 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:14:21 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: What to do with a Uniquely You In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 14 Sep 1999 trekona@erols.com wrote: > > > Here's my problem: I bought the largest size they have, which still needs > to be padded up a bit to get to *my* size - I think there's a 6" difference at > the hip, among other areas. > So my question is, what kind of glue can I use on this foam that will hold > but won't dissolve the foam? I'm gonna need to do a bit of reshaping on it, > obviously I can't just patch it here and there. I'm not sure that just wrapping > foam batting/polyfill would be substantial enough. You should look for a glue designed specifically for plastic, or a kind called 'polystyrene cement'. If it's not available in the usual sort of places try looking for it in model shops. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 18:28:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05983 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:28:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24576; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:44:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA15881 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:41:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15873 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:41:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA13795 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <011001beff0a$fc46b240$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Status: hobby or professional? Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:43:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >>I have some other questions: >>How many on this list do costuming professionally? >>How many hours do you devote to sewing? I'm what you might call "semi-pro." I do commission work and sell clothing in the SCA, but it's not my main occupation. Dress is, however, one of my scholarly research interests, and if some university decides to hire me, I guess I'll be partially a professional costume historian.... >>How many hours do you devote to sewing? It's sporadic, but several hours a week (especially if you count needlework in there--I've always got a project on the go on the nightstand). Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 18:37:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05997 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:36:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25830; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:53:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17482 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:50:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17472 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:50:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.68.10]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990914234616.EXML2782.mta3-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:46:16 +0100 Message-ID: <37DF4507.3ADA@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:04:39 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Proffessional/hobby Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn I'm a pro, have been for about 17 years. You can tell by the threadbare clothes,white never seen the light of day complexion, callouses on my fingers and the permanently hungry expression. Oh and the fact that this is my only social life as I can't afford another. My advice to anyone thinking of turning pro don't do it unless you have a rich partner your own house no mortage etc and a law degree Yours Cynically Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 18:38:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06001 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:38:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26108; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:55:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17801 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:52:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from exchange.acer.edu.au (exchange.acer.edu.au [203.2.133.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17794 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:52:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by exchange.acer.edu.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:48:13 +1000 Message-ID: From: Harvey Georgia To: "'H-costume'" Cc: "'Benji'" Subject: Re: H-COST: traumatized stories Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:48:09 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Harvey Georgia - -Poster: "R.L. Shep" When I was a kid during WWII my Dad had a factory making duffle bags and canvas water tanks for the troops in North. Africa. We had BIG sewing machines and they had BIG needles - remember that not only were they industrial but I was very young. I ran one of those for awhile. Scared s-less. Never again.. I have seen people who got in the way of one of those and had a needle go through their finger. -- My partner and I have a nice saying about telling the difference between domestic, semi-industrial, and industrial sewing machines. The domestic is the one that stops, and the needle breaks when your finger hits it. The semi-industrial is the one where the needle breaks on/in your finger. The industrial is the machine that sews straight through your finger, and keeps going. :-) Enjoy (or not...) Georgia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 18:40:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06007 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:40:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26416; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:57:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18073 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:54:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18064 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:54:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.232] (ell177.acadia.net [205.217.218.232]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA01691 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:03:05 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:53:09 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: wool Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) << Wool's a pretty delicate fiber.>> Actually, wool is a very sturdy fiber, unless the sheep had problems, and grew a weak or tender fleece one year (in which case it should not be used, and most mills would reject it.) The one thing wool does not handle well is base -- acid has little effect on it. The opposite can reduce it to shreds very quickly. This is one good reason for rinsing anything wool (but especially felt) in water with a dash of vinegar -- the mild acid counteracts any alkalinity from the detergent (or urine, or ammonia, should you happen to use them.) Bleach, by the way, will dissolve the cuticle, so if you want to "unfelt" something, try Clorox. Individual wool fibers can also stand unbelievable amounts of incredible pressure, so one of the ways of cleaning out vegetative matter is to run the fiber (usually after it's been carded in to roving) through rubber rollers of extreme pressure. The vegetative matter is crushed to dust, and falls out. The wool doesn't notice. <> Worsted has more to do with how the fiber is prepared before it's spun. Worsted requires combing, not carding, by which the fibers are aligned, and the shorter fibers are removed. The result is top, which can be spun into fine, smooth, strong yarn. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 19:35:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06070 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:35:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02979; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:51:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA26871 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:48:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26859 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:48:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p6.directcon.net [206.170.184.105]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA24494 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:48:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 17:48:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909150048.RAA24494@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Status: hobby or professional? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I consider myself a costume professional, I just don't seem to make money at it! I teach, lead workshops, and write about costume. Unfortunately for me, with such young children it's very hard to get sewing time and I don't have the ability to stay up all night that I did when I was younger, so not much sewing gets done. I recently took a summer sabbatical and did NOT make Ren Faire costumes for the first time in years. My family and I were able to go camping and swimming, and not only did we not miss the income, but I think we actually saved money because we didn't buy a lot of convenience food and make a half dozen emergency trips to the nearest JoAnne's, 40 miles away. I'm hoping to start a historical pattern business soon, so most of my energy is going into writing a business plan. You'd be amazed what it takes to get those pieces of paper into the envelopes. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 19:39:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06074 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:39:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03537; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:55:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27525 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:53:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27517 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:53:01 -0600 (MDT) From: MissMela@aol.com Received: from MissMela@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6RQT0tMkjX (3699) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:52:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <176da496.251047c9@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:52:25 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Not a red-head, and some other questions. To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MissMela@aol.com In a message dated 9/14/1999 10:01:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, allessandre@hotmail.com writes: << I have some other questions: How many on this list do costuming professionally? How many are doing this as a hobby?' How many hours do you devote to sewing? >> I am a union professional costume designer for the entertainment industry, petite (5'3" and 120 lb.), am the mortgage payer on an obscene California mortgage (house prices here are out of this world and for nothing)! And have been the main breadwinner for the last 18 years. I guess that puts me in the minority of this group, as I do make my living this way. I will admit, for the last 9 years, I have also been a full time faculty member at the local college's Theater Arts Department, but I still free lance. Before becoming full-time, I was part time for 9 years addition to freelancing throughout the United States. In both cases, I have been the main bread winner. If I had my choice, I would make costumes (especially hats) for a living, but designing pays so much better. Guess, I sold out to the almighty dollar (and the mortgage and the kids schooling and Victoria's ballet lessons and Alexander's karate lessons, etc., etc.). I understand the frustration home operated businesses have concerning customers who do not realize your value. Stick to your guns and demand a decent wage for a decent product. It's the only way things will slowly change. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 19:41:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06091 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:41:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03851; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:58:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27871 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:55:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.boston.juno.com (m2.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.199]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27864 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:55:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from kayherb@juno.com) by m2.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id ELH3PYAM; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:45:15 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Redheads and time spent sewing Message-ID: <19990719.071326.5231.9.kayherb@juno.com> References: <199909142239.PAA09711@zeus.directcon.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-5,7-12,21-23,28-30,35-37,47-54 From: "Kathryn L. Herb" Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:45:15 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kathryn L. Herb" >I'd bet money that a statistically significant number of us are "plus >size". Does being a plus-sized light brunette with a red-headed daughter count? And my contribution to the "what and how much" thread: I don't spend as much time sewing as I'd like, as several have said. Depends on what needs to be done to the house -- right now it's replacing half the roof. I do sew for profit (yeah, sure): mostly 18c clothing, currently oddball stuff because it gives me some satisfaction in hearing people say, "You make those? I didn't think anyone makes those!" Nothing spectacular, but things that are of some limited audience and keep me from having to devote an inordinate amount of time to orders. The profit comes in with minor alterations to 20c clothing and the occasional curtains and drapes. I don't really call myself a professional, mostly because what I do is done on my own time and at my own pace. More than a hobbyist in the sense of the authenticity level. In my mind a professional is loosely one who does a job on a nearly full-time basis. Or is there such a thing as a casual professional? How much time on average do I spend sewing? Probably comes out to about eight hours a week or less. Some weeks I forget there's anything more to my house than my sewing room, other weeks I hardly see it. Unless you include research time. Add about half the actual sewing time in that case. Do I make much of an hourly wage for my sewing? No way! I stopped figuring that out long ago -- too depressing. I nearly feel that I sew for the enjoyment and the creativity, and any money I can make on it is a bonus. Of course, I do have a full-time job other than sewing, which though it doesn't pay all my bills does make it a little less crucial that I charge a grand amount. I'd like to have the confidence and business savvy to figure out what would be a decent amount, and then charge it, but I'm very conscious of the folks who gave me a break when I was first getting kitted out for reenactments, and I tend to pass that on to others. So that's my story. I'm looking forward to hearing from more out there! Kay kayherb@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 19:54:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06122 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:54:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA05277; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:11:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA29638 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:08:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29633 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:08:02 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbraKat@aol.com Received: from AlbraKat@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6GAP0xSN9O (4563) for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:07:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:07:19 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: metal embroidery To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 58 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbraKat@aol.com Whoops-!! Sorry for the confusion--!!!Wrong term --the whitework stuff was' broiderie angliase'--the early metalic thread technique I'm thinking of was properly called 'opus anglicanum'--a particularly british form of embroidery which was so highly prized during the periods or 1250 to 1350 for eclesiastical garments.(I I should never trust my memory when I'm half asleep!) sheepishly , albra . _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 20:04:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06144 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:04:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06270; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:20:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA01424 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:18:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01417 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:18:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p6.directcon.net [206.170.184.105]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA28070 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 18:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909150118.SAA28070@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Hair color Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I have very dark brown hair that's going grey but isn't grey enough yet to look anything but drab. So I'm coloring it until I can have a head of gorgeous silver hair like my mom's. It's usually dark brown, but sometimes I go for the auburn highlights, so can I count as a semi-partial wanna be redhead? I've been considering the Clairol Natural Instincts Black Cherry colorant, ever since someone told me it turned her grey hair bright purple. Now THAT sounds like fun! Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 20:19:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06167 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:19:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07779; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:36:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA03603 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:33:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03593 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:33:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.126]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA01448 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <011901beff1a$81cd4aa0$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Some other questions.-answers Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:34:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McHugh" >> How many on this list do costuming professionally? Not me. I would like to start a small business, but there are few items one can make a living at. For example, I just cannot replace my day job selling chemises for $20 or $30. >> How many are doing this as a hobby?' I am currently of the hobby variety. I have made costumes for many years, and some clothing since I was about 10 years old. My fitting skills have not kept up with my changing body, but just today my newest book, "The Costume Technician's Handbook" arrived, strongly suggested by someone who taught a class in "Renaissance Tailoring" at Pennsic this year. I hope it helps my fitting problems. That and getting a proper dressmaker's dummy that fits me. >> How many hours do you devote to sewing? Not nearly enough. That 4 -letter word, work, gets in the way. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 20:25:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06173 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:25:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08374; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:42:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04416 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:39:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.vci.net (smtp.vci.net [207.162.160.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04403 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:39:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vci.net (ppp-169-77.vci.net [207.162.169.77]) by smtp.vci.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA03925 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:39:31 -0500 Message-ID: <37DEF976.B43CC66F@vci.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:42:14 -0500 From: "schuck@vci.net" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr-FR,de,ru,es-AR,sv MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:where to buy uniquely you References: <199909150108.TAA29649@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "schuck@vci.net" Hi Where could I buy a Uniquely you dressform? They sound useful. jb _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 20:27:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06177 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:27:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08578; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:43:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA04758 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:41:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04745 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:41:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id LAA01983 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:11:08 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA05519; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:18:47 +0930 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:18:40 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair color In-Reply-To: <199909150118.SAA28070@zeus.directcon.net> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Margo Anderson wrote: > > I've been considering the Clairol Natural Instincts Black Cherry colorant, > ever since someone told me it turned her grey hair bright purple. Now THAT > sounds like fun! > Well my brother tried that (he has dark blonde/light brown hair) and it did indeed turn his hair a very dark purple that was quite noticeably purple in the right light. I tried a similar colour (I have darker, reddish brown hair (yeah, chalk another one up *grin*)) and the effect was slightly more subtle. If you have fairly dark hair it could be a nice darkish red with bright purple bits where the grey is *grin* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 21:13:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06253 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:13:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13884; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:29:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA11311 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:26:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11301 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 20:26:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990915022604.YKBY16271.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 19:26:04 -0700 Message-ID: <37DF03D3.3F294328@home.com> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:26:27 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Foam (was What to do with a Uniquely You References: <000001befe13$5785c1d0$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent trekona@erols.com wrote: > > Here's my problem: I bought the largest size they have, which > still needs to be padded up a bit to get to *my* size - I think > there's a 6" difference at the hip, among other areas. > So my question is, what kind of glue can I use on this foam that > will hold but won't dissolve the foam? I'm gonna need to do a bit of > reshaping on it, obviously I can't just patch it here and there. I'm > not sure that just wrapping foam batting/polyfill would be substantial > enough. > Any ideas? My dh's first question was "What kind of foam? I use low temp hot glue gun on most of my foam but there's also barge cement or goop (which I like & it seems to work rather well or liquid nails" and when I said "foam batting/polyfill" he said "spray glue". It very much depends on *exactly* what kind of foam you are using. He thinks that if it's being covered with cloth that the spray adhesive will do well as it won't harden as some of the others would do. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 22:27:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06420 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:27:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21909; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:43:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22123 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:41:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22118 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA00256 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:49:00 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA30866 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:46:36 -0500 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:46:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Wool stuff (Kinda long....sorry....) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Tue, 14 Sep 1999 rima@anet.net wrote: > Someone also asked: > > >Can worsted be fulled? I had the impression that it could not. > > Worsted has to do with how the thread is spun in the first place. You > can spin "woolen", in which the ends of the fibers are allowed to stick out > of the thread, or "worsted", in which they the ends of the fibers are > caught in the twist and few escape to stick out. Think "fuzzy" and > "slick". Which is why "worsteds" don't make you itch as much - they don't > have all those fuzzy ends sticking out. That much I knew. But I'm afraid that *still* doesn't clue me in on whether worsted can be fulled. Or -- perhaps a better question -- whether it *was* fulled. Or even if it was made during the Middle Ages. For instance, if worsted could not be fulled very well, and fulled cloth was valued, then worsted might not have been preferred. Anyone have any solid evidence on the existence and/or use of worsted wools in the European Middle Ages? And why do I have a vague memory that certain types of wool fibres (I don't know if that means the type of sheep or something else) were better for producing worsted than others? That is, it wasn't just a question of making a decision when you sat down to spin; it may have been a question of the characteristics of the wool you had to work with. If that's the case, then I would think that certain places might specialize in worsted wool, depending on the availability of the right sheep or whatever factors went into producing wool that was suitable for worsted. Do trade records indicate regional specialties of wollens vs. worsteds? I'm *completely* out of my area here. --Robin, curious _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 22:31:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06430 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:31:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22462; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:48:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA22773 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:45:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22765 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:45:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.96.178.124] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11R60r-0006DM-00; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:45:41 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990915034224.0075d654@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:42:24 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: a Sailor's Palm described Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 08:18 PM 9/14/99 +0100, you wrote: > >-Poster: "LDMundy" > > > > -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" > > There's another heavy-weight hand-sewing device usually stocked nearby. >> Looks like a heavy duty tambour hook, but runs on a very heavy (sail >weight) >> "thread" that I certainly call cord; it's quite heavy. Looks speedy & >> handy. I dont know what it's called. Might be handy for medieval tent >> making & repair in the field. >> > Is this what I tend to call ,perhaps wrongly, as a "stitching awl" like a >heavy handle spike but with a hole or hook near the point. I have seen them >used for stitching bales of things like cotton and wool; It is pushed >through and the free end is pulled and looped back and doesnt need knotting; >Also I have seen a similar but smaller thing used on those big rope fenders >they used to have on boats before old car tyres? >I am sorry this list is turning into "old tools" >Dave > Sounds more like a "bench Hook" which is used to hold the sail cloth taught while it is being sewn. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 22:50:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06441 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:50:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24241; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:06:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA25312 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:03:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25304 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:03:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA29873 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:03:10 -0700 (MST) Received: from ip-55-029.scf.primenet.com(206.132.55.29), claiming to be "smadsenprimenet.com" via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAF8aOs6; Tue Sep 14 21:03:06 1999 Message-ID: <01d201beff2f$17776900$c605dacf@com> From: "Lee" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: Status: hobby or professional? Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:02:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Lee" I do sew professionally, just not costumes. I subcontract to a designer, because it's a surer paycheck right now than doing my own designs. For a couple of the first years was subcontracting, I was earning more than the designer was! It's shocking how much the good artisan clothing trade shows are to do, as well as the travel, lost work, and the fact that most stores expect you to bill them when you ship with no up front money at all. So stores try to send stuff back, cancel after the garments are already made, ect. I'm pretty fast at sewing, so when I'm in the swing I can get a good bit done. The downside if is that I'm not very good about working regular hours, so I always seem to be working. Right now I'm planning on going back to college when my DH gets us settled in California, and I'm looking forward to just sewing for us. I've been told that the subcontracting laws have gotten =very= weird in California, so it's not worth the hassle. Kels _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 23:17:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06485 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:17:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26279; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:33:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28752 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:30:54 -0600 (MDT) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:30:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp03.primenet.com (smtp03.primenet.com [206.165.6.133]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28743 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:30:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp03.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA06136 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:30:25 -0700 (MST) Received: from ip-55-029.scf.primenet.com(206.132.55.29), claiming to be "smadsenprimenet.com" via SMTP by smtp03.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAM7aa.l; Tue Sep 14 21:30:20 1999 Message-ID: <01ed01beff32$e57d62c0$c605dacf@com> From: "Lee" To: Subject: H-COST: Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:29:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.0518.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.0518.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Lee" > Though Hamlet is set in Denmark (14th c.?) >>in SCA period, that version seemed to be set in the late 19th century. It's >>too bad that Brannagh is capable of such great work, but decides to modernize >>the settings. >> > >> >Why is this too bad? Shakespeare's plays were not intended to be >historical reenactments, they are theater. Even when first produced, Hamlet >was probably performed in contemporary, 16th century clothing, not in 14th >century styling. Some very interesting productions of Shakespeare have been >set in other times and settings than those he intended, such as the fairly >recent Richard II in a Facist setting, or the immortal Brothers Karamozov's >All-Juggling Comedy of Errors. > >Im all for meticulous historical recreation, but there's room for much, much >more, and the theater and film is the place for it. Oh, yes! One of the last plays for Arizona Renassaisnce Theater that my DH was in was Love's Labour Lost, set in the 1970's. He played Armado the Braggart in red and black zebra striped pants and vest, purple shirt and platform black buckle shoes. It isn't one of Shakespeare's best, but the funniest bit was the start of the play where the prince and the other fellows were making up all the silly proclamations against consorting with women while high on marijuana, which finally makes sense! And the part where Borune is desperately wondering if the proclamations have been made public yet, in the hopes that they can be changed, and one of the others gives him a disgusted look and tells him "Three days ago, Duh!" ended up getting a big laugh! Kels _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 23:19:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06505 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:19:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26556; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:36:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA29065 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:33:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29047 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:33:29 -0600 (MDT) From: MissMela@aol.com Received: from MissMela@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6XGRa07454 (3987) for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:32:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:32:46 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Status: hobby or professional? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MissMela@aol.com Kels, contact me when you move to California. I hire costume technicians all the time. Miss Mela _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 23:20:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06516 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:20:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26627; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:36:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA29235 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:34:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29228 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:34:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.14.120.113]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990915043335.CYDC1503@worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:33:35 +0000 Message-ID: <37DF21D5.7D730E22@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:34:29 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: off topic: a new toy References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Emma Elizabeth Lehman wrote: > > -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> > > I just aquired (rather unexpectedly) a used New Home "streamliner" sewing > machine (a word of advice: don't buy sewing machines from thrift stores if > you don't have a car and your destination is several blocks away...) and I > find I know nothing really about the thing. Has anybody had good or bad > experiences with one? Can anyone offer advice or a source for an > instruction manual? It works smoothly and quietly, and seems pretty > straight forward, but I'm curious about the thing. Emma, have you tried joining up with the Featherweigh Fanatics or Treadle On lists? Both are dedicated to particular machines (the former Singer Featherweights, the latter people powered machines [treadles and handcranks]) but both also have a wealth of knowledge in thier collectors on line who can probably help you out. I hang out on Treadle On (own 1 treadle and 2 handcranks) and the group there is very friendly. I think both can be accessed thru the Quiltropolis.com website. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 23:21:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06531 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:21:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26819; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:37:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA29346 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:34:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29340 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:34:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.14.120.113]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990915043424.CYND1503@worldnet.att.net> for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:34:24 +0000 Message-ID: <37DF2206.511C9E46@worldnet.att.net> Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:35:18 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Sneak Peek of Ball '99 References: <006501befec0$dd47d1c0$b09faccf@e4c2n6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Penny Ladnier wrote: > > -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > > I wanted to let you all have a sneak peek of our Online Costume Ball '99, > http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/Guest1.htm > > Enjoy... Penny > http://www.costumegallery.com Penny, is it too late to submit pictures for this year's costume ball? Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 14 23:28:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06538 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:28:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27584; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:44:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA00449 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:42:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from falcon.canfield.com (falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00437 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:42:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deathstar (deathstar.canfield.com [206.191.139.22]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA31502 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:49:04 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990914213232.0099a2e0@mail.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslie@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 21:38:26 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: Sewing vs. home surgery In-Reply-To: <199909150108.TAA29649@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Leslie Helms I've sewn through fingers a couple of times with an industrial machine. It does sound awful, and it's right up there alongside hitting your finger with a hammer for discomfort, but it's not really a reason to avoid industrial machines. There is negligible danger of infection, because the needle is so hot from its speed. The needle is usually in and back out before you know what happened. I did have some trouble once when it went through my nail and into the bone and then broke off, and then jammed the blunt end back through my fingernail, but it was an excuse to stop sewing for a while and go to the doc-in-a-box. They just pulled the fragments out and it healed right up. The self-cauterizing makes the difference. Of course it's way better to not sew through your finger in the first place, and after a couple of "learning experiences" one does get a lot better at keeping the fingers out of the busy bit. Leslie whose pain threshold might be a bit off normal, come to think of it. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 00:18:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06596 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:18:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00944; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:35:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA06370 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:32:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06360 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 23:32:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gia-g (dialup310.serv.net [207.207.70.203]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA15005 for ; Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008201beff3b$bd19f1a0$db46cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Not a red-head, and some other questions. Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:30:11 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" >In a message dated 9/14/1999 10:01:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >allessandre@hotmail.com writes: > ><< I have some other questions: I wasn't going to chime in, but some of the replies have actually been fun to read! So, here I am adding my three bits. > How many on this list do costuming professionally? I work 75% time for pay at the University of Washington (Seattle WA) and work 100% time at home for free (LOL!) But I do have a business license, so when people ask me to sew I make it easy on myself and tell everyone I charge $20/per hour not including any supplies, materials or patterns. If they want me to draft a pattern (meaning from measurements to finished pattern to take away), I charge $25/per hour. Keeping it simple makes it harder to argue with ("What part of $20/per hour don't you understand?" *LOL*) So far, keeping it simple has worked...and I do have a price break 'clause': If the client actually takes the time to learn about the details of making the garb 'period' and actually helps with parts of the construction, then they get a small price break, based upon the number of hours they contributed. The price break is very 'situation specific' and not everyone gets one. > How many are doing this as a hobby?' I also do this as a hobby. My family (hubby, 15 yr old, 4 yr old) all get garb and modern clothes made; and my 15 yr old has <*gasp*!> asked me to make her Homecoming Dress! I'm going through sewing machine withdrawals right now ( it's in the shop *wahhhh!*), because I still do all my 'modern' (not costuming) sewing by machine. I do counted cross stitch, spinning, weaving, needlepoint... and I'm sure I'm forgetting something... My extended family puts in their 'order' for birthdays and christmas...*LOL*! They *know* that I may or may not get it done within the same year as the request.. > How many hours do you devote to sewing? It depends on how my fibromyalgia is acting up, if I have meetings to go to, or if I have to play chauffer for my 15 yr old (who is very active in high school!). I can get anywhere from 2 hours to 4 hours of some kind of sewing done every night. More on the weekend, in the neighborhood of maybe 4 - 8 hours, if I am not going to an event or not working with a person with their costuming needs or fufilling other obilgations...like house work *g*. It also helps me relax and makes me feel better since my dear husband works 2nd shift and is often working weekends and I miss him! Gia/Giacinta _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 01:56:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06637 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:56:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA06118; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:13:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA16239 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:10:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw2.pacbell.net (mail-gw2.pacbell.net [206.13.28.53]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16234 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:10:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-207-105-202-151.irvn11.pacbell.net [207.105.202.151]) by mail-gw2.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18656 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:10:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DEE4E7.D6B47809@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:14:33 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: (was red head) 1997 list statistics References: <19990914170029.22800.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Penny had written: >> In 1997,......the majority of people were hobbyist... with >> California carrying the largest amount. Carol added: > And red-headed, either by nature or by choice, for the most part. I don't think that's a safe conclusion. There are over 600 people on the list. The fact that about 20 are redheads does not give a majority. It merely means that a lot of red heads have been posting on a thread about red heads. If we started a thread on blondes, we might get a number of blondes posting. (Please let's not.) ;-) Even on delurking day, we had a number of new voices speak up, but nowhere near a 'majority' of the list'. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 02:32:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA32374 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 02:32:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA07848; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:49:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA19407 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:46:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f329.hotmail.com [207.82.250.108]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA19399 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 01:46:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 60348 invoked by uid 0); 15 Sep 1999 07:46:14 -0000 Message-ID: <19990915074614.60347.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.45.38 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:46:13 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.45.38] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Neat? Indeed!/Re: Ten-gore Greenland dress? Have pattern? Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 00:46:13 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" I love it and it's in my time period, too! You've made my day.:-) Thank you very much. Lonna > >-Poster: aleed > > >There's a website of it up at >http://www.virtualelpaso.com/neverwinter/dress/dress.htm > >It's neat! > >Drea > >On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, L.L. Johnson wrote: > > > > > -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" > > > > > > >-Poster: aleed > > > > 10-gore greenland dress > > > > This sounds wonderful. Where might I find more information on this? >Patterns > > maybe? Whatever information you have will be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks much > > > > Lonna > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 04:10:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA03172 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:10:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12003; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 03:27:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA17461 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 03:24:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f153.hotmail.com [207.82.251.32]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA17309 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 03:24:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 39334 invoked by uid 0); 15 Sep 1999 09:23:55 -0000 Message-ID: <19990915092355.39333.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.45.38 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 02:23:55 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.45.38] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Need information on Northern Spanish (Leon) garb; late 12th, early 13th C. Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 02:23:55 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Hullo all I am writing on behalf of a friend of mine whose persona is from late 12th to early 13th C. Leon (Northern Spain). She has garb that works for now, but she would like to find information on some that is more authentic. It doesn't have to be from the height of fashion as her persona is traveling with a mercenary group as a combination fighter and medic. I hope I'm giving you enough to start on. (Henk, is this time period within your specialty range?) Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks much Lonna ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 04:38:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA03197 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:38:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA12847; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 03:55:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA22123 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 03:52:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA22115 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 03:52:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JFZW7OPMEO00D3NN@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:56:54 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JFZW5LH2XK00DP7T@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:50:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:44:29 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:44:05 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:44:02 +1100 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:44:02 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: Re: H-COST: "Bum cleavage" In-reply-to: <199909141909.NAA11740@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <431BEDA2EF0@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 Hi Janice > - -Poster: Janice Dallas > > Teddy, > They wear their pants this way so they can say that their waist is > still the same size as when they were in school. Of course, for > some reason their inseam has shrunk also. That doesn't seem to be the case over here. You see it on men of all shapes and sizes from slim to huge. A colleagues son summed it up when his mother took him shopping for trousers and jeans and tried to get him to wear them "properly" around his waist. "Don't be so silly, Mum! *Men* don't wear them like that!" It seems to be the prevailing attitude. *Men" wear their trousers around their hips (some take it to extremes) and that it is uncomfortable and effeminate to wear them arounf the waist. I don't find it uncomfortable, but then perhaps the way I wear my trousers is why I've been mistaken for a girl for most of my life... Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 05:09:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03221 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 05:09:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA13306; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:10:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA23318 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:07:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA23310 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:07:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JFZWT0VL2O00EBCK@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:12:01 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JFZVQARMAY00CQGZ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:39:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:32:56 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:32:49 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:32:45 +1100 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:32:44 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: Re: H-COST: Not a redhead In-reply-to: <199909141740.LAA20890@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <4318EC26CF4@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 Ro follow up from.... > -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" > > I am a brunette with blue-grey eyes. I have dyed my hair red > previously. Me too. My hair gets "reddish" tints in summer (the bits that aren't turning grey...) but Karrie and I have the same hair and eye colour and I too have dyed my hair red in the past (all but destroying a hotel bathroom in the process, but *that's* another story) I'd love red hair and have tried most red shades (including a disasterous attempt at "strawberry-blond" that had my father throw me out) but since I stopped washing my hair, about 4 years ago, I haven't wanted to spoil the effect by using chemicals and dye on it, so it's brunette with a slight splattering of grey at one side. Incidentally, as I hate grey (and *won't* wear it) and my eyes are far to grey for my liking, I've had violet, green and blue contact lenses (sometimes mixing them so each eye is a different colour) Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 05:09:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03225 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 05:09:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA14024; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:25:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA24628 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:23:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA24620 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:23:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JFZX9T2WM800DLZT@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:27:44 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JFZX7G7EG800DMPI@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:21:19 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:15:00 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:14:39 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:14:39 +1100 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:14:39 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-COST: Uniquely You cover-struggle In-reply-to: <199909142134.PAA16678@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <432414A0580@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 Oh Gail! Thank you! The mental image that this conjured up was *wonderful!* > (Sue Toorans and I ordered one for me, then made the cover for it > and applied the cover to the form in an extended two-person > versus-one-dress-dummy wrestling match, complete with grunting, > sweating, struggling, and many more obscenities than I usually > admit that I know. ) > > Gail DeCamp Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 05:33:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA03297 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 05:33:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA15132; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:50:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA26748 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:47:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA26737 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 04:47:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JFZY8RD9I800B2E7@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:52:02 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JFZY6GQCV400B9KA@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:48:46 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:42:27 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:42:07 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:42:00 +1100 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:41:59 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: Re: H-COST: Pro/amateur/time spent sewing In-reply-to: <199909150442.WAA00492@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <432B66F71AC@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 Well, I'm not a prfoessional, I sew costumes for myself and friends mostly, with the occasional commission. I'm dreadful at meeting deadlines so gave up on the idea of sewing for money on a regular basis. How much time spent on sewing... Most of what's available. Evenings after work is where the machining gets done (weekends are usually taken up with events where I get to *wear* the stuff...) I do a certain amount of the pinning and cutting out at work during my lunch-break (something for the others in the staff lounge to watch). Since I *hate* handsewing, I do as much as I can possibly get away with by machine (been known to spend an hour figuring out *how* to machine something rather than spend 10 minutes hand-sewing it... but once I have it figured, I can use the method in future and save ever ahving to do it by hand...) and I hate to be hand sewing when I could be zooming away ont he machine, I save my hand sewing for situations where I don't have acces to a machine. As a result, I hand sew/finish on my two 40 minute train journeys (to and from work) each day, as well as during my morning and afternoon teabreaks and my lunch hour. The regular commuters on the train are used to me pulling velvet houpellandes or brocade renaissance gowns out of my bag and settling to sew the linings down or work on the hem, as are my colleagues when we go for tea or lunch (including at the pub across the road). Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 07:36:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03406 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:36:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA21981; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:52:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA08775 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:50:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08767 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:50:00 -0600 (MDT) From: trekona@erols.com Received: from erols.com (207-172-132-213.s213.tnt5.col.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.132.213]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA07483 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:50:08 -0400 (EDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Foam (was What to do with a Uniquely You Date: Wed, 15 Sep 99 12:50:45 GMT Message-ID: References: <000001befe13$5785c1d0$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> <37DF03D3.3F294328@home.com> X-Mailer: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00] Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: trekona@erols.com > -Poster: Kat & Kent > My dh's first question was "What kind of foam? I use low temp hot glue > gun on most of my foam but there's also barge cement or goop (which I > like & it seems to work rather well or liquid nails" and when I said > "foam batting/polyfill" he said "spray glue". It very much depends on > *exactly* what kind of foam you are using. He thinks that if it's being > covered with cloth that the spray adhesive will do well as it won't > harden as some of the others would do. The dress form says that it's polyurethane, and the foam that I'd thought to pad around a bit is a high density cushion type foam from Hancocks. Thanks, folks, for all your ideas! This is great! -Judy Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 07:37:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03410 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:37:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22083; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:54:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA08989 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:51:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08984 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 06:51:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.237] (ell182.acadia.net [205.217.218.237]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA18069 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:00:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:50:18 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: wool again Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) << That is, it wasn't just a question of making a decision when you sat down to spin; it may have been a question of the characteristics of the wool you had to work with. >> This is quite true. The long luster wools are more suitable forcombing and worsted spinning. Down wools are better for lofty yarns for things like blankets and knit goods. The regional differences in England affected where various industries were located -- some were woolbroadcloth production centers, others were stocking centers, etc. << Do trade records indicate regional specialties of wollens vs. worsteds?>> Yes, very much so, going back to medieval times at least. You might try looking for information on the Kendal wool trade for starters. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 07:51:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03442 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:51:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23009; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:08:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10542 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:05:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay20.smtp.psi.net (relay20.smtp.psi.net [38.8.20.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10535 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 07:05:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.119.75.41] (helo=kdp.tiac.net) by relay20.smtp.psi.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11REkM-000473-00; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:05:15 -0400 From: "John Page" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Wool stuff Kristin Page Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:44:35 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "John Page" > > >Can worsted be fulled? Depends on what you mean by "fulled". Worsted is a harder yarn, usually spun tighter than woolen yarn so the fabric seems to contract less. But yes, can be and was fulled. > valued, then worsted might not have been preferred. Anyone have any solid > evidence on the existence and/or use of worsted wools in the European > Middle Ages? Hedeby (Haithabu) in Germany, about 1000, described by Inge Hagg, London, about 14th century, described by Crowfoot, et al. Check archaeological journals. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 09:10:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03585 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:10:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01394; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:26:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA22787 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:23:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22769 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:23:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-79-44.s44.tnt5.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.79.44]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id KAA28362 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:23:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005d01beff85$824d7480$2c4faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <006501befec0$dd47d1c0$b09faccf@e4c2n6> <37DF2206.511C9E46@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Sneak Peek of Ball '99 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:20:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > Penny, is it too late to submit pictures for this year's costume ball? I am accepting entries until Sept. 21, next Tuesday. Time for all procrastinators to make your move! If you need the directions to submit go to http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/attend.htm If you are in the Chesterfield, VA area, Saturday morning, I will be at the Henricus Historical Park (second oldest settlement in VA). They are having their celebration and I will be taking photographs of the historic interpreters. So if you come to the event in costume I can take your picture, too. If you need directions to Henricus Park, email me privately, today or early tomorrow morning. I do not know what our weather will be like tomorrow with Hurricane Floyd coming in. Hang on, Albert Cat, we are in for a bumpy ride with this hurricane. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 09:19:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03589 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:19:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02786; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:36:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA24932 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:33:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24918 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:33:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-79-44.s44.tnt5.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.79.44]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id KAA08146 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:33:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009901beff86$f6e42540$2c4faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <199909150118.SAA28070@zeus.directcon.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair color Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:31:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > I've been considering the Clairol Natural Instincts Black Cherry colorant, > ever since someone told me it turned her grey hair bright purple. Now THAT > sounds like fun! Hey, I used the Clairol Cinnamon color and had my hair take on a red-purplish hair. It was hard to hide three feet of purplish hair for two weeks until I could color again. The college kids loved the color! I have changed to L'oreal dyes and haven't had a problem. Later... Penny _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 09:41:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03626 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:41:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06245; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:57:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA29812 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:54:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28922; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:50:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-79-44.s44.tnt5.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.79.44]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id KAA24633; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:50:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00c301beff89$5b9ef8a0$2c4faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Cc: "Vintage" , "Fantasy" , "Wear Digest" , "WearableArt" , "Sew retro" , "h-needlework" , "Costume DC" Subject: H-COST: Reminder of Cybercast Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:48:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I just wanted to remind you all of the cybercast today at 3:30 EST, http://video.hec.ohio-state.edu/index.html . The Ohio State University's Historic Costume and Textiles Collection in the College of Human Ecology will broadcast the premiere of "Scaasi: The Joy of Dressing Up," a video presentation of the Collection's exhibition from October 8, 1998 through February 27, 1999. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 10:09:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03681 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:09:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12897; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:25:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08132 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:22:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08117 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:22:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FI30016DXD21M@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:22:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:30:28 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: H-COST: Tengores and Spanish clothes In-reply-to: <199909151423.IAA22936@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990915103028.0079fd20@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id JAA08121 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson I'm sorry, I know this is going to sound totally pissy, and I apologize for that, the term "10 Gore Dress" offends me in much the same way that "Bog Dress", "T-tunic" and "Apron Dress" (when misused) affects some others. The Herjolfsnes no.41 does not have 10 gores, it has two. It has eight side pieces, just like the Herjolfsnes no.38, and essentially the no.39 (although the latter blends them into only two side pieces). I realize that's what the author of the article (Linda M. Blowney) called it, and I'm not criticizing that. It made perfect sense for the article she wrote. However, using it as a default jargon term forever after doesn't help trying to teach people that it has a name, and that there were a few more contemporaneous outfits that were excavated along with it. Enough of that. Although I really hate continually mentioning it, there is a small section depicting the spanish garments from the "Museo de Telas Medievales, Monasterio de Santa María la Real de Huelgas" (which are about the right era asked for, at least) at the website "Some Clothing of the Middle Ages" (http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthenon/5923/cloth/bockhome.htm) Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 10:23:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03715 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:23:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15369; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:39:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11693 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:36:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11683 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:36:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.183] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11RH76-0006R1-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:36:53 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 08:34:41 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: (was red head) 1997 list statistics In-Reply-To: <37DEE4E7.D6B47809@pacbell.net> References: <19990914170029.22800.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 12:14 AM 09/15/1999 +0000, you wrote: >I don't think that's a safe conclusion. There are over 600 people on the list. >The fact that about 20 are redheads does not give a majority. It merely means >that a lot of red heads have been posting on a thread about red heads. If we >started a thread on blondes, we might get a number of blondes posting. (Please >let's not.) ;-) > >Even on delurking day, we had a number of new voices speak up, but nowhere >near a 'majority' of the list'. > >Regards, > >Dietmar You're right, of course. -- Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 10:55:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03743 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:55:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20475; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:12:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA20219 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:09:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20212 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:09:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.83.82] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A3B0306F008E; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:05:04 -0400 Message-ID: <003e01beff94$a128c940$5253ccd1@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: <006501befec0$dd47d1c0$b09faccf@e4c2n6> <37DF2206.511C9E46@worldnet.att.net> <005d01beff85$824d7480$2c4faccf@e4c2n6> Subject: Re: H-COST: Sneak Peek of Ball '99 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:09:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" Penny, Would you mind if I send this message along to the Ladies' Tea and Rhetoric Society list? Some of the ladies there have just finished up some beautiful Victorian outfits and I bet they'd love to "attend". =) Hoping the hurricane passes you all by, Kerrie ----- Original Message ----- From: Penny Ladnier To: Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 10:20 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Sneak Peek of Ball '99 > > -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > > > Penny, is it too late to submit pictures for this year's costume ball? > > I am accepting entries until Sept. 21, next Tuesday. Time for all > procrastinators to make your move! If you need the directions to submit go > to http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/attend.htm If you are in > the Chesterfield, VA area, Saturday morning, I will be at the Henricus > Historical Park (second oldest settlement in VA). They are having their > celebration and I will be taking photographs of the historic interpreters. > So if you come to the event in costume I can take your picture, too. If you > need directions to Henricus Park, email me privately, today or early > tomorrow morning. I do not know what our weather will be like tomorrow with > Hurricane Floyd coming in. > > Hang on, Albert Cat, we are in for a bumpy ride with this hurricane. > > Later... Penny > http://www.costumegallery.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 11:09:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03758 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:09:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22772; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:25:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23555 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:22:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23544 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 10:22:18 -0600 (MDT) From: SNSpies@aol.com Received: from SNSpies@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6RSU7N7uL_ (4391) for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:21:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2382c9ae.25112194@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:21:40 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Need information on Northern Spanish (Leon) garb; late 12th, earl... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SNSpies@aol.com << I am writing on behalf of a friend of mine whose persona is from late 12th to early 13th C. Leon (Northern Spain). She has garb that works for now, but she would like to find information on some that is more authentic. >> "Museo de Telas Medievales" by Concha Herrero Carretero (Madrid: Patrimonio Nacional, 1988) shows, in color, some of the garb from the tombs of the 13th-century Castilian nobility. Nancy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 11:20:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03780 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:20:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08076; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:05:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01897 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:02:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:root@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01879 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 09:01:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [216.200.103.235] (th-1-41.patriot.net [216.200.103.235] (may be forged)) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA16291 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:01:46 -0400 Message-Id: <199909151501.LAA16291@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: H-COST: Reminder of Cybercast Date: Wed, 15 Sep 99 11:04:00 -0000 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Hi Penny, I didn't pass along your note to Costume DC because it's not a local thing. Lots of Costume DC members are on other lists, so I'm sure they got the word! -Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 12:00:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03811 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:00:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02255; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:16:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07507 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:13:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07484 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:13:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JG0AT8W3NK00EBMR@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:18:07 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JG08JNTJOQ00CI7I@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:45:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:39:24 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:38:59 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:38:57 +1100 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:38:57 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-COST: Old-post: Eleanore di Toledo's son: question To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <437A9421E2D@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 I can't remember who posted the question about what the child in the portrait of Eleanore di Toledo is wearing.... I just had a chance to look at a clearer copy of this picture than I could get hold of at the time this was asked about. To me, it looks like a white shirt (with an embroidered collar) a reddish coloured garent (or just sleeves, as it is only visible in the gaps where the brown over-garment sleeves are tied on and around the wrists) and a brown dress or skirted doublet with matching pointed in sleeves. I'd guess, from the apparent age of the child, thathe's still young enough to be in skirts so it's a dress he's wearing. Since only a small portion of the skirts can be seen (by his right hand), however, it *could* be a longish doublet-skirt rather than a dress. Anyone else any views on this. Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 12:06:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03824 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:06:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA03307; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:23:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09396 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:20:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09376 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:20:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06694 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:20:02 -0400 Message-ID: <37DFD543.972923C1@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:20:05 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Tengores and Spanish clothes References: <3.0.6.32.19990915103028.0079fd20@pop.utulsa.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue I think, Marc, that you'll have about as much luck with this terminology change as folks who remind the public at large are having, telling them that the Millenium doesn't start for another 14 months -- they may be right, but no one is listening. As for my own opinion, even if the side pieces aren't precisely triangular, they are fairly close, and I have no problem including them in the count of 10 gores on this dress. Is it that you'd rather see it labeled "Herjolfsnes #41" every time it gets mentioned, or that you'd rather see it called "8 side-piece dress?" cv -- It's nearly time for October Fools' Day -- the Southern Hemisphere version of April Fools' Day. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 12:13:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03873 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:13:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04336; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:29:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11181 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:27:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11170 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:27:07 -0600 (MDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6VVWa03812 (3968) for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:26:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <61e599cf.251130bb@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:26:19 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: traumatized stories To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows sub 15 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 9/14/99 6:55:10 PM EST, Harveyg@acer.edu.au writes: << The industrial is the machine that sews straight through your finger, and keeps going. >> But it's a nice clean puncture and heals up rather quickly if you don't make the mistake of jerking your finger away as I did and and losing a chunk of your finger. That happened 20 years ago. I didn't do it again until last spring. 16 hour days and all the stress of that. Anyway this time it went through the thumbnail and out the other side. Healed nicely in a week. No moral here just enjoy telling the uninitiated. Cheryl Odom _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 12:15:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03877 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:15:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA04599; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:31:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11562 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:28:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11547 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:28:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem108.barney.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.108] helo=herimats) by mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11RIr5-0007nn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:28:27 +0100 Message-ID: <003701beff9f$bc27a3f0$6c075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <19990914170029.22800.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: (was red head) 1997 list statistics Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:10:03 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" However I propose that those of us who are follicly challenged are a definite minority. Undeniable Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters > >The fact that about 20 are redheads does not give a majority. It merely means > >that a lot of red heads have been posting on a thread about red heads. If we > >started a thread on blondes, we might get a number of blondes posting. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 13:12:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03956 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:12:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06881; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:45:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15238 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:42:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay20.smtp.psi.net (relay20.smtp.psi.net [38.8.20.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15227 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 11:42:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.119.75.41] (helo=kdp.tiac.net) by relay20.smtp.psi.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11RJ4q-0003ev-00; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:42:41 -0400 From: "John Page" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Tengores and Spanish clothes Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:56:59 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "John Page" > in the count of 10 gores on this dress. Is it that you'd rather see it > labeled "Herjolfsnes #41" I'd rather it be called Herjolfsnes " 41. That would make it easier for non-Americans to talk about it -- especially some of the folk who actually have access to the artifacts. 'Nother point in favor of using the correct designation is that there is more than one "10-gore dress" though the one shown in Kohler is most frequently the one used by costumers, SCA and otherwise. Kristin Page _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 13:57:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04025 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:57:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19223; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:14:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA15016 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:11:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15002 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:11:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11RKSM-00064h-0C for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:11:02 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:41:02 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: H-COST: Onion skins MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie Hello all. I'm not even going to think about telling you how little sewing I actually do - can we make that hours per year, rather than per week? Anyway, my DH has decided he's going to Hastings 2000, and wants to natural-dye some of his kit with onion skins. He's started collecting them in an airtight biscuit tin, but my worry is that they will go mouldy before he has enough to do anything with. Can anyone reassure me, or tell me the tricks to make sure they don't turn into something oozy and disgusting that tries to take over the kitchen? I wouldn't want to discourage him, since it's the first time he's ever started making something more than two weeks before the event :-) Jean -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 14:05:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04039 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:05:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20524; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:22:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18157 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:19:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18147 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:19:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-79-44.s44.tnt5.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.79.44]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id PAA29760 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:19:29 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01ca01beffae$e2771540$2c4faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <006501befec0$dd47d1c0$b09faccf@e4c2n6> <37DF2206.511C9E46@worldnet.att.net> <005d01beff85$824d7480$2c4faccf@e4c2n6> <003e01beff94$a128c940$5253ccd1@ouppc> Subject: Re: H-COST: Sneak Peek of Ball '99 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:16:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > Would you mind if I send this message along to the Ladies' Tea and Rhetoric > Society list? Some of the ladies there have just finished up some beautiful > Victorian outfits and I bet they'd love to "attend". =) Please do! You have have my permission to post my message about the Costume Ball to other lists. If anyone is on the SCA list, please post it there. It would be fun to have some of them too. Sue Shatto send me photos of their Victorian Tea for the Ball. They are beautiful! The purpose of the Ball is to celebrate the costuming industry. We want to show everyone our industry does more than witches and vampires. Back to tieing my lawn furniture down and bringing in the plants. We have had rain (feeder bands) since early this morning. My kids just came in and said school is canceled for tomorrow. I went to COSTCO and bought the batteries. We rarely get the winds from hurricanes, but we are expecting 50+ sustained winds tomorrow morning. I guess all those hanging dead limbs from last winter's ice storm will finally come down. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/attend.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 14:19:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04058 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:19:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22047; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:33:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA22292 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:30:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA22260 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:30:29 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990915193638.4568.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:36:38 PDT Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:36:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Sneak Peek of Ball '99 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I'm waiting with open ears to see what we in New England are going to get... I love the forecast *you may get a few sprinkles or you may get hurricane force winds* gee, thanks, that helps! Good luck to all in the hurricane band... use the time to make something beautiful! ;-) Sarah > Back to tieing my lawn furniture down and bringing > in the plants. We have > had rain (feeder bands) since early this morning. > My kids just came in and > said school is canceled for tomorrow. I went to > COSTCO and bought the > batteries. We rarely get the winds from hurricanes, > but we are expecting > 50+ sustained winds tomorrow morning. I guess all > those hanging dead limbs > from last winter's ice storm will finally come down. > > Later... Penny > http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/attend.htm > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 14:25:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04064 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:25:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23136; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:40:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24856 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:37:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24837 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:37:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem17.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.145] helo=herimats) by mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11RKsA-0000gn-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:37:43 +0100 Message-ID: <00a701beffb1$ca78c800$6c075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:37:47 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" > > -Poster: Jean Waddie > > Hello all. I'm not even going to think about telling you how little > sewing I actually do - can we make that hours per year, rather than per > week? PER Week? I thought it was per day, better rewrite my answer times 7> > Anyway, my DH has decided he's going to Hastings 2000, and wants to > natural-dye some of his kit with onion skins. He's started collecting > them in an airtight biscuit tin, but my worry is that they will go > mouldy before he has enough to do anything with. Can anyone reassure > me, or tell me the tricks to make sure they don't turn into something > oozy and disgusting that tries to take over the kitchen? So that great amount of instructions being issued for Hasting 2000 had omitted something after all , What A Surprise;> You have got off to a bad start I am afraid. You need fairly fresh onions and ideally either Red ones or some of the old english varieties.( as they say in Yorkshire 'slams the gate on the way out) Tesco onions are not great for the job; you will need hundreds. They come from Morrocco Israel and all kinds of places so they have done a lot of maturing on the way over; ie they are edible but not fresh. You cant just collect em as you go along; I know it says you can in some old books but they were eating them at a rate of more than one a week. They will have rotted long before you have enough; also take US recipes with a pinch of salt they have completely different varieties. Why not take up pickling and buy two big bags of shallots , they are usually homegrown. > I wouldn't want to discourage him, since it's the first time he's ever > started making something more than two weeks before the event :-) I would discourage him from doing it indoors anywhere let alone the kichen otherwise you are going to live with some pretty unsavoury smells for an awful long time ; I hope that you are not planning to sell the house in the next couple of years. Dave> > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 14:30:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04077 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:30:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24314; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:46:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA26804 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:43:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from edtnps04.telusplanet.net (edtnps04.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.104]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26777 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:43:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clgrtnt2-port-131.agt.net ([161.184.43.131]:1029 "HELO Freya") by smtp1.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <72172-2955>; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:43:15 -0600 X-Sender: agottfre@pop.telusplanet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: H-COST: Canadian Iceman update X-Mailer: Message-Id: <19990915194323Z72172-2955+152@smtp1.telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:43:15 -0600 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Yesterday's newspaper had an update on the Canadian Iceman found on the Tatsenshini Glacier. Dating is still uncertain. The range is expected to be sometime between 250 and 5000 B.P. (Before Present), with early guesses favoring 2000 BP. The Champagne and Aishik First Nations, in whose traditional hunting territory the remains were found, have given their consent to have the ice man studied; they have dubbed him "Kwaday Dan Sinchi" (kwah-DAY dun sin-CHEE) which means Long Ago Man Found. The remains have now been moved to the Royal British Columbia Museum in Victoria for study; the body includes some soft tissue, but it's unclear from the article just how much. The remains of a moose and antlers that were found nearby have yet to be dated or linked to Kwaday Dan Sinchi. Sorry, no new info on clothing or other artifacts. Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 15:02:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04148 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:02:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29299; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:18:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09282 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:15:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from williams.tricreations.com (williams.tricreations.com [207.156.174.93]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09265 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:15:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [38.27.179.158] (ip158.columbus6.oh.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.179.158]) by williams.tricreations.com (8.9.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA25945 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:09:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909152009.QAA25945@williams.tricreations.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:19:17 -0400 x-sender: tr002203-elisee@williams.tricreations.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Elisee du Lyonnais To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elisee du Lyonnais I suggest if you really want to try keeping them to tuck the tin in the freezer. I used to dye baskets with walnut husks - the green part that turns dark brown as it ages. It's the right time of year to be collecting them, and anyone with a walnut tree in their yard would love to have the husks carted off. It produces a very very dark brown when I used them. Use rubber gloves to pick up the walnuts or you'll stain your hands dark brown as well. I used a metal garbage can with the husks and water, built a fire around it to heat the water and simmered baskets for about 15 minutes to a half hour to get a deep brown. Suppose a very few husks in a lot of water might produce a lighter colour? Lisee Jean Waddie wrote: > >-Poster: Jean Waddie > >Hello all. I'm not even going to think about telling you how little >sewing I actually do - can we make that hours per year, rather than per >week? > >Anyway, my DH has decided he's going to Hastings 2000, and wants to >natural-dye some of his kit with onion skins. He's started collecting >them in an airtight biscuit tin, but my worry is that they will go >mouldy before he has enough to do anything with. Can anyone reassure >me, or tell me the tricks to make sure they don't turn into something >oozy and disgusting that tries to take over the kitchen? > >I wouldn't want to discourage him, since it's the first time he's ever >started making something more than two weeks before the event :-) > >Jean >-- >Jean Waddie > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 15:42:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04215 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:42:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08462; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:57:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA23019 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:54:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22964; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:54:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-79-56.s56.tnt5.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.79.56]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id QAA21318; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:54:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <029801beffbc$23510780$2c4faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Cc: "Vintage" Subject: H-COST: Cybercast Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:51:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Did anyone watch the cybercast from Ohio State? Any thought about how you liked or disliked it? I didn't have audio. But I liked this one dress and asked the curator who wore it. The evening gown's were beautiful. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 15:47:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04232 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:47:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09311; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:01:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24506 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:58:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24438; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:58:37 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:58:37 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909152058.OAA24438@net.indra.com> From: "Bergdahl, Stephen" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" , vintage@net.indra.com Subject: H-COST: Men's Costuming Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Bergdahl, Stephen" Dear Members of the list I have been thinking long and hard about this and I have decided to start a web page dedicated to Men's Costuming. Much of the discussion of costuming is aimed at the women, and I must admit that sometimes I feel like a second class citizen. So, what I am looking for is ideas, articles, links, and anything else you can think of. I don't want this to be a boys only club, but I do want the focus to be on men's costume of any period. Thank you for letting me take up your time, and I look forward to hear from you all. Oh, by the way, I mailed this note from work so if you want to respond off list, please email me at madly@2xtreme.net. That way I will be sure to get it. Yours Stephen Bergdahl "Well, the best laided plans of Mice." "And Men." "Men, what have men got to do with it!" 'Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy' _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 15:48:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04246 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:48:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09828; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:04:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25486 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:01:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25472 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:01:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-71-183.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.71.183]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA11981 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 14:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37DF9583.8B05142D@pacbell.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 12:48:04 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Hand vs. Machine Sewing References: <432B66F71AC@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Teddy wrote: > Since I *hate* handsewing, I do as much as I can possibly get away with by > machine (been known to spend an hour figuring out *how* to machine something > rather than spend 10 minutes hand-sewing it... I'm with you in that respect. I tend to use those moments when I've gone to bed, but before I fall asleep to work out design engineering problems in my head. (I figured out how to sew and turn a bag lined cotehardie without any hand sewing this way.) Don't know why, but it tends to be the best of both world. I usually work out the problem, and my mind gets a chance to relax and I fall asleep faster. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 15:58:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04260 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:58:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11362; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:14:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28724 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:11:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28693 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:11:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.205] (ell150.acadia.net [205.217.218.205]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA09358 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:19:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:09:40 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: onion skin dyeing Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Keep them in a ziplock bag in the freezer. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 16:05:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04286 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:05:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12650; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:22:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA01705 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:19:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from salyko.cube.net (root@news.cube.net [194.97.64.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA01687 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:19:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (970 bytes) by salyko.cube.net via rmail with P:stdio/R:bind_hosts/T:inet_zone_bind_smtp (sender: ) (ident using unix) id for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:18:53 +0200 (MEST) (Smail-3.2.0.106 1999-Mar-31 #1 built 1999-Sep-2) Received: from muninn.cube.net (barbara@muninn.cube.net [193.149.39.57]) by muninn.cube.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA11386; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:29:36 +0200 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:29:36 +0200 (CEST) From: Barbara Maren Winkler X-Sender: barbara@muninn.cube.net To: h-costume-digest@indra.com cc: Barbara Maren Winkler Subject: Re: H-COST: spinners' list In-Reply-To: <199909142134.PAA16678@net.indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Barbara Maren Winkler If you're interested in spindle spinning, there is the Spindlitis mailing list, managed and owned by Teri Pittman, tpittman@xws.com, who can help you with subscription information. Barbara Maren _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 16:39:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04358 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:39:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17023; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:56:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12713 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:53:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA12705 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:53:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 12553 invoked by alias); 15 Sep 1999 21:53:47 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 12547 invoked by uid 0); 15 Sep 1999 21:53:47 -0000 Received: from bdsl41.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.41) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 15 Sep 1999 21:53:47 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990915165159.0095d5f0@rrnet.com> X-Sender: baird@rrnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:53:37 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" Finally, a question I know the answer to. Well, sort of... A woman I know who likes to use natural dyes told me she went to the supermarket and got permission to clean out their onion bins. She got a huge amount of onion skins that way. Kim At 07:41 PM 09/15/1999 +0100, you wrote: >Anyway, my DH has decided he's going to Hastings 2000, and wants to >natural-dye some of his kit with onion skins. He's started collecting >them in an airtight biscuit tin, but my worry is that they will go >mouldy before he has enough to do anything with. Can anyone reassure >me, or tell me the tricks to make sure they don't turn into something >oozy and disgusting that tries to take over the kitchen? > >Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 16:41:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04364 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:41:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17265; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:58:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA13111 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:55:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13103 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:55:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-205-230.s230.tnt4.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.205.230]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id RAA03111 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001a01beffc6$582e7640$e6cd7ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: finished object Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:04:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0017_01BEFFA4.D074FD80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BEFFA4.D074FD80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Finally a pair of trunkhose whose seat does not blow out. My husband is in the center of the picture with the green trunkhose and leather doublet. http://martin.dc.usweb.com/living_history/images/p0000883.png ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BEFFA4.D074FD80 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="p0000883.png.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="p0000883.png.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://martin.dc.usweb.com/living_history/images/p0000883.png [InternetShortcut] URL=http://martin.dc.usweb.com/living_history/images/p0000883.png Modified=C0BEF329C6FFBE011E ------=_NextPart_000_0017_01BEFFA4.D074FD80-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 16:45:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04369 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:45:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18032; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:01:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA14161 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:58:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA14154 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:58:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-205-230.s230.tnt4.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.205.230]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id RAA07145; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002c01beffc6$da9296c0$e6cd7ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" , Subject: H-COST: FO: infant's elizabethan Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:08:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01BEFFA5.52B912E0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BEFFA5.52B912E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is my bundle of joy in a teal cotton gown with matching flat cap over a coif. http://martin.dc.usweb.com/living_history/images/p0000881.png ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BEFFA5.52B912E0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="p0000881.png.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="p0000881.png.url" [DEFAULT] BASEURL=http://martin.dc.usweb.com/living_history/images/p0000881.png [InternetShortcut] URL=http://martin.dc.usweb.com/living_history/images/p0000881.png Modified=C07DCBABC6FFBE0137 ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BEFFA5.52B912E0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 16:54:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04379 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:54:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19583; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:11:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA16986 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:08:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16968 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:08:10 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.156] (ppp156.creative.net [208.225.99.156]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA18108 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:08:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909150118.SAA28070@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:16:59 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair color Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >I've been considering the Clairol Natural Instincts Black Cherry colorant, >ever since someone told me it turned her grey hair bright purple. Now THAT >sounds like fun! Unlikely to turn your hair BRIGHT purple, even over the "grey", but it will give the dark parts strong plummy-purple highlights in bright sun and the "grey" parts a dark plummy-purplish cast. My daughter, who has medium brown hair, has used it several times. I think the color is lovely. For those who work "real jobs", it won't be terribly noticable in an office setting. The color is much more noticable in natural light. I have dyed my hair purple with Manic Panic. It washed out too fast and didn't add that much purple. "Natural Instincts", while not as purple, was longer lasting and just generally much nicer. Have fun! Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 17:17:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04419 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:17:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22091; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:31:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA23757 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:28:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23735 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:28:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.83.82] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id ACA2302600EE; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:24:34 -0400 Message-ID: <010801beffc9$a4b9c520$5253ccd1@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: <029801beffbc$23510780$2c4faccf@e4c2n6> Subject: Re: H-COST: Cybercast Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:28:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 4:51 PM > > -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > > Did anyone watch the cybercast from Ohio State? Any thought about how you > liked or disliked it? I didn't have audio. But I liked this one dress and > asked the curator who wore it. The evening gown's were beautiful. *sigh* No, despite my best attempts, a moody isp and equally moody small children ultimately conspired against me. Will there be stills posted somewhere? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 17:38:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04446 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:38:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25269; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:55:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01872 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:52:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f12.hotmail.com [216.32.181.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA01851 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 16:52:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 39235 invoked by uid 0); 15 Sep 1999 22:51:31 -0000 Message-ID: <19990915225131.39234.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 216.100.57.121 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:51:31 PDT X-Originating-IP: [216.100.57.121] From: "J. Karnelian" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Fwd: H-COST: Santa Cruz Renaissance clothes -Lothlorien Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 15:51:31 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "J. Karnelian" >From: "J. Karnelian" >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: Santa Cruz Renaissance clothes -Lothlorien >Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 19:05:04 PDT > > >-Poster: "J. Karnelian" > > I am looking for contact information for a Renaissance/gothic clothing >store in Santa Cruz which I think is called Lothlorien. Or something >similar. The owner is a woman named Lorian. My girlfriend makes clothes >and >she was told that this store might be interested in her stuff. If anyone >knows the adress for their website, or their e-mail, or their phone number, >or regular postal adress, we would appreciate that information a lot. > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >_________________________________________________________________ >To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 18:40:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04501 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:40:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05190; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:57:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA21473 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:53:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hurontario.net (root@hurontario.net [209.135.104.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21462 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:53:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VSIMPSON.maclaren (remote-128.hurontario.net [209.135.104.128]) by hurontario.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id UAA01320 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:00:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909160000.UAA01320@hurontario.net> From: "Vandy Simpson" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:55:02 -0400 Subject: H-COST: onion skins for dyeing Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199909152252.QAA01924@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vandy Simpson" I'm reading a backlog of digests in reverse order, so if someone said this, sorry for overkill. I've used onion skins a number of times for dyeing, from doing it in my kitchen for pleasure or for samples for competition, to doing it in Norse costume over a campfire in a copper cauldron in a museum setting. What you want to be using is the onion paper, the very fine dry outer skins, and the best way to collect and store them is in a paper bag, where they'll stay dry.The older they get, the stronger the concentration of colour will be. I normally store my onions in a bin, and just shuffle off the outer skin loose into the bin every time I use an onion. Occasionally, when the amount of onion paper makes it difficult to tell if I've any onions left, I scoop it all out into a paper bag and tuck it away somewhere. As dry papery skins, they have virtually no smell at all, and if there's no moisture and they're kept dry, they will last literally for years. (I keep discovering lost caches!) When you go to dye, just soak the skins up in water, even better if you can do it in the sun, like "sun tea", then heat up to simmer. The longer you soak and simmer, the stronger the dye bath. Onions are a nice dye because. being a food stuff there's no risk in using cooking pots and your kitchen, they will dye without a mordant, they're a good strong fast dye, and a historical one. Yes, you will get variations in colour because of type of onion and growing conditions. And you can control the colour to a degree by mordant, though I've always used pots as a mordant (I have dye pots of iron and copper,) rather than getting into the chemical mordants. I used onion dyes on some of the fabrics for the first set of costumes used in the interpretive program at L'Anse aux Meadows, to alter the colours of the fabrics, and make them more like clothing and less like costumes. (I'll confess on subsequent costumes, I've cheated some and used commercial dyes to overdye, since continual use and machine washing takes its toll!) Good luck! Vandy Simpson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 18:41:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04506 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:41:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05281; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:58:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA21885 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:55:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21879; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:55:28 -0600 (MDT) From: Dustins6@aol.com Received: from Dustins6@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6YGWa12328 (4245); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:54:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <584faad5.25118bc9@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:54:49 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Canadian Iceman update To: h-costume@indra.com, h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dustins6@aol.com In a message dated 9/15/99 3:45:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, agottfre@telusplanet.net writes: << Dating is still uncertain. The range is expected to be sometime between 250 and 5000 B.P. (Before Present), with early guesses favoring 2000 BP. >> I'll say it's uncertain . The difficulty of narrowing it down between 250 - 5000 years looks to be one of those ambiguities that science just can't resolve, but a newspaper that uses the term " B.P. (Before Present) " as a reference point doesn't sound very credible or professional. Where did they come up with that? You'd think that type of article would have been approached in a more scientific manner. At any rate, it was an interesting discovery and I thank you for passing it along. Hope _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 18:48:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04513 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:48:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06040; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:05:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA23698 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:02:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from phantom.golden.net (phantom.golden.net [199.166.210.30]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23688 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:02:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.183.130.217] (AS52-15-217.cas-kit.golden.net [209.183.130.217]) by phantom.golden.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26699 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:02:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:02:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: lgsteph@pop.golden.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Gary Stephens Subject: H-COST: gold embroidery Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gary Stephens Hello List, Apologies for coming in on this discussion so late; I have been rather busy with work and unable to attend my lists. Just to throw a few points into the ring: 1. Opus Anglicanum is a body of primarily English ecclesiastical embroideries done from the period 800AD through to 1500. The peerless body of work in this rather large opus is known as the Burgundian Vestments. Anyone seriously interested in or nue and opus anglicanum should study these vestments. 2. Gold thread embroidery has been used from ancient China through to modern day. Even medieval embroideries used not only silver-gilt thread (the spun thread to which many of you refer), but gold wires as well. Close examination of many of the garments heavy with gold embroidery will easily reveal this fact. 3. There are many types of gold threads: silver-gilt, as pointed out numerous times on this list, purl (the coils to which many of you refer), jaceron (a sort of zig-zag coil) and facconee (a sort of a box coil) as well as flat gold wires. Any of these latter three may be couched on as is, or pulled out slightly to allow spaces between the coils to appear, thereby creating more glitter. This latter method of couching was very fashionable during the Elizabethan era. Lots of glitter effect by candlelight. It is for this pulled out sort of gold wire couching that bullion stitch is named. It was even an affectation to pound gold wire embroidery and then to burnish it to achieve a sheet of gold look. 4. Generally (although there are exceptions) gold thread should never pass through cloth, as it can both destroy the cloth and the more fragile silver-gilt thread. If it must be passed through cloth then only the ends, and then stitched into place to hold it securely. As a rule the beginning and end are couched into place with several stitches on the surface. Underside couching was used to ensure the metal thread remained in place on the surface. 5. Or nue is simply an elaborate form of couching, as many of you pointed out, a form of painting with the needle. Having done literally kilometers of the stuff, I can attest to the fact this is the penultimate in embroidery. Even the famed Charles Germain St. Aubin, costumer to Louis XV of France, bowed to the dying skill of embroiderers specializing in or nue. 6. Excellent quality bullion threads are available from Kreinik. 7. I also still have a limited supply of gold purl and facconee thread. Lorina Stephens -------------------------------------- Five Rivers Chapmanry ~ purveyors of quality hand-crafted cooperage, period furniture & fine hand-sewn garments ~ e-mail: lgsteph@golden.net ~ website: http://www.historicmerchants.com/fiverivers _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 19:06:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04546 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:06:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07636; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:23:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA28832 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:20:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop06.iname.net (pop06.iname.net [165.251.8.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28820 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:20:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from natasha (user143.internetwork.net [206.138.100.143]) by pop06.iname.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08777 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <199909151926140190.008AA949@mail.iname.com> In-Reply-To: <584faad5.25118bc9@aol.com> References: <584faad5.25118bc9@aol.com> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.00.00.11 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:26:14 -0500 From: "Tara Stewart" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Canadian Iceman update Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id SAA28823 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Tara Stewart" I'm stepping in on this, because it's something we covered in an archeaology class I took. BP (before present) is becoming more widely used in archaeology journals and articles to get around the BC/AD or BCE/AD splits, and also because it takes a less ethno-centric approach, since the BC/AD concept is mainly Christian and ignore other calendars. 5000 years BP means exactly what it sounds like -- 5000 years ago. It's simpler and less confusing (the words of my archeaology book, folks!) as well as being more standard. So it is both credible and professional, if confusing. ;) Tara *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 9/15/99 at 7:54 PM Dustins6@aol.com wrote: >-Poster: Dustins6@aol.com >I'll say it's uncertain . The difficulty of narrowing it down between 250 >- 5000 years looks to be one of those ambiguities that science just can't >resolve, but a newspaper that uses the term " B.P. (Before Present) " as a >reference point doesn't sound very credible or professional. Where did they >come up with that? You'd think that type of article would have been >approached in a more scientific manner. At any rate, it was an interesting >discovery and I thank you for passing it along. >Hope > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 19:53:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA04673 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:53:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12230; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:10:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA11484 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:05:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11462 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:05:21 -0600 (MDT) From: Dustins6@aol.com Received: from Dustins6@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6QVQa04068 (4245) for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:04:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <506b083a.25119c2f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:04:47 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Canadian Iceman update OT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dustins6@aol.com In a message dated 9/15/99 8:21:59 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sioned@iname.com writes: << 5000 years BP means exactly what it sounds like -- 5000 years ago. It's simpler and less confusing (the words of my archeaology book, folks!) as well as being more standard. So it is both credible and professional, if confusing. ;) >> As you said, it's confusing. I have no argument with you, but I guess I do disagree with the book that you mention. It sounds like a bend over backwards effort on the author's part to be super PC ( politically correct ). I don't have much patience with the games that the PC police play. Mind you, I'm not pointing any fingers at you. I realise that you felt that this was the more acceptable way to present the info, based on the instructions that you received. It may well be that there are several people who also feel that way. And as I said, I do appreciate the fact that the information was posted. It might be helpful to also post an explaination of what BP is supposed to be, along with the date of the article ( so everyone would know when "present" was, should the information be quoted at a later date), each time that this new method is used. The note should also mention which calendar is being used for the dating. In regards to those of us who do not look upon the the term "B.C." as a profession of faith and still cling to the past in our use of it, I hope that we will continue to be tolerated . Hope _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 20:32:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04718 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:32:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15827; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:49:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA22868 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:45:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail3.anet.net (mail3.anet.net [216.2.98.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22849 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:45:54 -0600 (MDT) From: rima@anet.net Received: from [216.2.96.23] (216.2.96.15) by mail3.anet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0); Wed, 15 Sep 1999 17:51:32 -0800 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909150442.WAA00492@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 18:24:23 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #586 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rima@anet.net Robin N says: >That much I knew. But I'm afraid that *still* doesn't clue me in on >whether worsted can be fulled. Sure it can. >Or -- perhaps a better question -- whether >it *was* fulled. Probably. It dramatically increases the strength of the fabric, since it locks all the little wool-fibre-micro-hooks together. >Or even if it was made during the Middle Ages. Don't know for sure, but I would guess so. Even the word "worsted" is old. Any cloth you would weave that has a "harder" finish would be made from "worsted" yarns. >For >instance, if worsted could not be fulled very well, and fulled cloth was >valued, then worsted might not have been preferred. Anyone have any solid >evidence on the existence and/or use of worsted wools in the European >Middle Ages? And me without my library card! ;-D >And why do I have a vague memory that certain types of wool fibres (I >don't know if that means the type of sheep or something else) were better >for producing worsted than others? Sure, different kinds of sheep produce radically different fibers, which definitely affect what kind of yarn you get. I'm not sure you could get a real worsted out of Lincoln, but you definitely can out of Merino or Rambouillet. Then again, you wouldn't want to put Lincoln anywhere near your body - it's more for rugs and horse-blankets! >That is, it wasn't just a question of >making a decision when you sat down to spin; it may have been a question >of the characteristics of the wool you had to work with. If that's the >case, then I would think that certain places might specialize in worsted >wool, depending on the availability of the right sheep or whatever factors >went into producing wool that was suitable for worsted. Do trade records >indicate regional specialties of wollens vs. worsteds? I'm *completely* >out of my area here. Actually, I think this may be one of the reasons that the "finer" fabrics came from Italy. The English sheep breeds tend to have coarser wool, whereas some of the Italian and French sheep breeds have a much finer wool. I have a book somewhere on the history of all the wool breeds. I wonder if I can locate it tonight??? Rima _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 20:51:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04763 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:51:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18122; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:08:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28369 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:05:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28346 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:04:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k497.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.97]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id TAA12274 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:04:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E04F79.75B0@netwiz.net> Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 19:01:29 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Men's Costuming References: <199909152058.OAA24438@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi Bergdahl, Stephen wrote: > > -Poster: "Bergdahl, Stephen" > > Dear Members of the list > > I have been thinking long and hard about this and I have decided to start a > web page dedicated to Men's Costuming. Much of the discussion of costuming > is aimed at the women, and I must admit that sometimes I feel like a second That's because women just need more clothes (in any period)! I haven't heard anyone discouraging the guys from jumping in. Personally I'd like to hear more from guys who wear Japanese or Middle Eastern costume. It's usually the interminable kilt question or doublets. Or civil war uniforms. Yawn! We never seem to hear from anyone who wears full Cavalier costume. Or Moghul! (Unless I missed that one) So can ladies join your list?? Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 21:00:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04782 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:00:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19560; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:17:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00991 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:14:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00972 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:14:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip220-123.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.123]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA11279 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:14:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990915220047.009d9cf0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:00:47 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Tengores In-Reply-To: <37DFD543.972923C1@thibault.org> References: <3.0.6.32.19990915103028.0079fd20@pop.utulsa.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >As for my own opinion, even if the side pieces aren't precisely >triangular, they are fairly close, and I have no problem including them >in the count of 10 gores on this dress. Is it that you'd rather see it >labeled "Herjolfsnes #41" every time it gets mentioned, or that you'd >rather see it called "8 side-piece dress?" Would just plain "Greenland Gown" be acceptable terminology? Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 21:00:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04786 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:00:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19559; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:17:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00990 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:14:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00959 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:14:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip220-123.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.123]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA11266 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:14:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990915211137.009d9cf0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:11:37 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: No harm done/thanks for the info/Re: Source for gemstone bead buttons In-Reply-To: <19990914054539.33889.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >No you haven't offended me at all. I'm glad to hear it - it was *meant* to be a private post. >... Thanks very much for your information. I may be asking you for more >gem info in the future. If that's okay with you. No problem, I don't mind being gemmological advisor to people on the list or asked the occasional questions. ;) Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 22:21:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04884 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:21:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28109; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:37:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20640 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:34:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20632 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:34:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-1.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FI4007Q4V7KWD@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:33:22 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:33:31 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Tengores and Spanish clothes To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <37E0650B.140A5D93@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <19990916030923.28407.qmail@hotmail.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson > >I think, Marc, that you'll have about as much luck with this >terminology change as folks who remind the public at large are having, >telling them that the Millenium doesn't start for another 14 months -- >they may be right, but no one is listening. *Sigh* You are probably right on that, but I figure it's worth the effort. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. >...labeled "Herjolfsnes #41" every time it gets mentioned, or that > you'd rather see it called "8 side-piece dress?" :) It's a risk, granted. <"John Page" > >'Nother point in favor of using the correct designation is that there >is more than one "10-gore dress" though the one shown in Kohler is most > frequently the one used by costumers, SCA and otherwise. I think the drawing in Kohler has pocket slits, doesn't it? That would be the H38, while the photograph there IS of H41. OTOH, since I seem to have followed Norlund in calling them "gores" myself, I might as well go back to being quiet about it. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 22:53:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04920 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:53:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01210; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA28900 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:07:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28889 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:07:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA20288 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-62.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.62]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA24569 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <017101befffa$0c898ac0$e670fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "costume list" Subject: H-COST: Danish Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:15:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_016E_01BEFFBF.5EED50C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_016E_01BEFFBF.5EED50C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please excuse my interuption... A few months back, a man from Danmark (Copenhagen, I think) posted to = the list. I have been watching for posts from him since. Where did you = go? If you are still with us, email me. I would like to talk with you = off list.=20 Michelle Mandrake@mypad.com or Mandrake@Ireland.com=20 ...Now back to H-Costume. ------=_NextPart_000_016E_01BEFFBF.5EED50C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Please excuse my = interuption...
 
A few months back, a man from = Danmark=20 (Copenhagen, I think)  posted to the list.  I have been = watching for=20 posts from him since.  Where did you go?  If you are still = with us,=20 email me.  I would like to talk with you off list.
  = Michelle
  Mandrake@mypad.com or Mandrake@Ireland.com =
 
...Now back to=20 H-Costume.
------=_NextPart_000_016E_01BEFFBF.5EED50C0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 23:04:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04948 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:04:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02428; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:21:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01615 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:16:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01601 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:16:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA24415 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:16:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-62.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.62]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA00461 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:16:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <017601befffb$56e6e800$e670fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Old-post: Eleanore di Toledo's son: question Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:24:15 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" It was me. Thanks for getting back to me on this! Someone asked me why I thought it was a tunic. (I am sorry that I don't remember who.) There doesn't appear to be lacing down the front. The bunching of the garment under the arms leads me to believe that there aren't shoulder seams, as if the garment is cut with a 90 degree angle attached sleeve. For these reasons, I thought it might be a T tunic. After seeing a better copy of the portrait, I noticed that there was possibly skirts, around the hip area. I wondered then, if it was a doublet, back laced. I would like for my kids to have some alternates to the garb they have. I want to have back-ups for those things kids do. I don't want to make something extremely time consuming since they grow so fast. (One time consuming costume is enough in each size.) If we can figure out exactly what this portrait is representing, I think it would be helpful to all of us with kids. Thanks all! Michelle -Poster: teddy1 I can't remember who posted the question about what the child in the portrait of Eleanore di Toledo is wearing.... I just had a chance to look at a clearer copy of this picture than I could get hold of at the time this was asked about. To me, it looks like a white shirt (with an embroidered collar) a reddish coloured garent (or just sleeves, as it is only visible in the gaps where the brown over-garment sleeves are tied on and around the wrists) and a brown dress or skirted doublet with matching pointed in sleeves. I'd guess, from the apparent age of the child, thathe's still young enough to be in skirts so it's a dress he's wearing. Since only a small portion of the skirts can be seen (by his right hand), however, it *could* be a longish doublet-skirt rather than a dress. Anyone else any views on this. Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 23:23:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05051 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:23:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04478; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:39:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06315 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:36:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06301 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:36:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03640 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:36:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-62.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.62]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA13776 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <019e01befffe$122f0500$e670fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:43:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >> >> -Poster: Jean Waddie >> Anyway, my DH has decided he's going to Hastings 2000, and wants to >> natural-dye some of his kit with onion skins. He's started collecting >> them in an airtight biscuit tin, but my worry is that they will go >> mouldy before he has enough to do anything with. Can anyone reassure >> me, or tell me the tricks to make sure they don't turn into something >> oozy and disgusting that tries to take over the kitchen? Jean, I use onion skins to dye my Easter eggs every year. When I go to the grocery store, I grab a bag of skins (from the yellow ones, red doesn't work). I tie the open end of the bag closed and leave them in the produce bag until I need them. It is not air tight and they are fine. I think putting them in an airtight tin is way too much effort. Especially, if this is done every time you use an onion to cook with. It would take you a couple of years to accumulate enough skins to make a good batch of dye. The grocery stores have to pay someone to keep the produce isle clean, so in effect, if you go in and fill a bag or two, you are doing them some favor. I took a class a few years back on cooking for children. As an extra, since it was Easter time, the instructor threw in a unit on natural egg coloring. We used carrots, onion skins and a few other veggies. It was a lot of fun. I have saved all the handouts from the class and could look up the recipes for the specific veggies if anyone is interested. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 23:28:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05086 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:28:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05028; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:45:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA07802 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:42:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from superman.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07781 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port18.imag.net [204.244.111.18]) by superman.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA03931 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <02d701befffd$f98982a0$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Sewing vs. home surgery Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:43:06 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" OW!!!!! Sticking to handsewing for good, methinks! Zelda -----Original Message----- From: Leslie Helms To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: September 14, 1999 9:46 PM Subject: H-COST: Sewing vs. home surgery > >-Poster: Leslie Helms > >I've sewn through fingers a couple of times with an industrial machine. It >does sound awful, and it's right up there alongside hitting your finger >with a hammer for discomfort, but it's not really a reason to avoid >industrial machines. There is negligible danger of infection, because the >needle is so hot from its speed. The needle is usually in and back out >before you know what happened. I did have some trouble once when it went >through my nail and into the bone and then broke off, and then jammed the >blunt end back through my fingernail, but it was an excuse to stop sewing >for a while and go to the doc-in-a-box. They just pulled the fragments out >and it healed right up. The self-cauterizing makes the difference. > >Of course it's way better to not sew through your finger in the first >place, and after a couple of "learning experiences" one does get a lot >better at keeping the fingers out of the busy bit. > >Leslie >whose pain threshold might be a bit off normal, come to think of it. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 23:32:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05101 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:32:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05655; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:49:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA08947 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:46:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from superman.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08930 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:46:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port18.imag.net [204.244.111.18]) by superman.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA04579 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:50:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <02ea01befffe$9a044620$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: H-COST: Gore or panel?? Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:47:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Hello! May I ask something that may sound stupid? (Rookie alert) What is the difference between a gore and a panel? Zelda -----Original Message----- From: Marc Carlson To: h-costume@indra.com Date: September 15, 1999 8:29 AM Subject: H-COST: Tengores and Spanish clothes > >-Poster: Marc Carlson > >I'm sorry, I know this is going to sound totally pissy, and I >apologize for that, the term "10 Gore Dress" offends me in much >the same way that "Bog Dress", "T-tunic" and "Apron Dress" (when >misused) affects some others. The Herjolfsnes no.41 does not >have 10 gores, it has two. It has eight side pieces, just like the >Herjolfsnes no.38, and essentially the no.39 (although the latter >blends them into only two side pieces). > >I realize that's what the author of the article (Linda M. Blowney) >called it, and I'm not criticizing that. It made perfect sense >for the article she wrote. However, using it as a default jargon >term forever after doesn't help trying to teach people that it has >a name, and that there were a few more contemporaneous outfits >that were excavated along with it. > >Enough of that. > >Although I really hate continually mentioning it, there is a small >section depicting the spanish garments from the "Museo de Telas Medievales, >Monasterio de Santa María la Real de Huelgas" (which are about the right >era asked for, at least) at the website "Some Clothing of the Middle >Ages" (http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthenon/5923/cloth/bockhome.htm) > >Marc > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 23:40:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05112 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:40:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06100; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:56:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA10745 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:53:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10716 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:53:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.189] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11RTXw-0000bB-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:53:25 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:51:14 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: "Herjolfsnes #41" vs. Gotlund vs. 10-gore In-Reply-To: <37E0650B.140A5D93@utulsa.edu> References: <19990916030923.28407.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Herjolfsnes #41 is the most specific, and therefore the best identifier, but many people may forget one or the other portion of it--e.g., recall Herjolfsnes, and forget #41, or recall #41 and forget Herjolfsnes. I, having been a for. language/anthropology major [back before time began :-) ] like the whole, but understand why others may prefer the other sobriquets for it. -- Gra/inne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 23:42:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05119 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:42:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06286; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:59:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA11519 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:56:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11493 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:56:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6AQMa19659 (3982) for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 00:56:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5851cccf.2511d274@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 00:56:20 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: "Herjolfsnes #41" vs. Gotlund vs. 10-gore To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 9/16/99 4:54:56 AM !!!First Boot!!!, cjcannon@greymists.com writes: << Herjolfsnes #41 is the most specific, and therefore the best identifier, but many people may forget one or the other portion of it--e.g., recall Herjolfsnes, and forget #41, or recall #41 and forget Herjolfsnes. I, having been a for. language/anthropology major [back before time began :-) ] like the whole, but understand why others may prefer the other sobriquets for it. -- Gra/inne >> Yeah, what she said...(I have no earthly idea what it was, but it sounds good) Chas _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 15 23:53:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05130 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:53:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07148; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA14034 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:06:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14003 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:06:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA18080 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:06:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-62.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.62]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA04921 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005001bf0002$56db2400$e670fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "costume list" Subject: H-COST: civil war Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:14:09 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01BEFFC7.A21AE940" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BEFFC7.A21AE940 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Who was it that needed to know about how to put the trim on her = husband's suit?=20 I am curious if you ever got the placement and alignment sorted = out? I had offered to get in touch with a friend of mine if there was a = specific way to do this and the offer is still there. I am very curious = to know how this turned out. Let us know..please, please, please! Michelle ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BEFFC7.A21AE940 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Who was it that needed to know about = how to put=20 the trim on her husband's suit? 
     I am = curious if you=20 ever got the placement and alignment sorted out?  I had offered to = get in=20 touch with a friend of mine if there was a specific way to do this and = the offer=20 is still there.  I am very curious to know how this turned = out.  Let=20 us know..please, please, please!
  = Michelle
------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BEFFC7.A21AE940-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 00:00:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05150 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 00:00:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA07631; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:17:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA15711 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:14:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15701 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA21592 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:14:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-62.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.62]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA09702 for ; Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:14:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006d01bf0003$5b0f6260$e670fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Gore or panel?? Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 22:21:38 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" First of all, NO question is stupid. No one knows everything! Usually, a gore is triangular in shape and a panel is rectangle. Example for a skirt or dress: A gore would be used to widen the bottom half. A panel would be used to widen the whole thing fairly evenly. Michelle > >-Poster: "The Rogue" > >Hello! > >May I ask something that may sound stupid? (Rookie alert) > >What is the difference between a gore and a panel? > >Zelda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 02:05:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08667 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 02:05:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15225; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:22:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA20934 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:19:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bunyip.flash.net (bunyip.flash.net [209.30.6.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20915 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:19:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p56.amax6.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.66.56]) by bunyip.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA10009 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 02:19:37 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37E08C8E.C13EBC2A@flash.net> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:22:09 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume List Subject: H-COST: Kunsthistorisches bliaut reply Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette In Joan Evans' "Dres in Mediaeval France" she states: A bliaut which survives in the Imperial Treasury of Vienna is dated by an inscription woven into its border, which states in Latin and in Arabic that it was woven in Palermo in 1181." This raised an eyebrow as I was unaware of any exsiting bliauts. So I wrote the Kunsthistorisches Museum. I received a copy from their guide "The Secular and Ecclesiastical Treasuries." Turns out what Evans referred to as a "bliaut" the museum refers to as an alba. I don't know if this is a translation issue (the original Evans was in French), a changing in terminology, or what. Any ideas? --Charlene -- Eagles may soar, but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 02:30:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA28957 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 02:30:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16129; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:47:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA26822 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:44:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (mta1.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.122]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA26811 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:44:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-233.irvn11.pacbell.net) by mta1.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FI5008XD6TSYH@mta1.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 00:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 00:48:16 +0000 From: Dietmar Subject: Re: H-COST: Kunsthistorisches bliaut reply To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <37E03E4E.31B648B7@pacbell.net> Organization: Completely Disorganized MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <37E08C8E.C13EBC2A@flash.net> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Charlene wrote: > In Joan Evans' "Dres in Mediaeval France" she states: A bliaut which > survives in the Imperial Treasury of Vienna is dated by an inscription > woven into its border, which states in Latin and in Arabic that it was > woven in Palermo in 1181." > > This raised an eyebrow as I was unaware of any exsiting bliauts. So I wrote > the Kunsthistorisches Museum. I received a copy from their guide "The > Secular and Ecclesiastical Treasuries." Turns out what Evans referred to > as a "bliaut" the museum refers to as an alba. I don't know if this is a > translation issue (the original Evans was in French), a changing in > terminology, or what. Any ideas? I don't know either, but I've seen it, and it's an alba. Every other reference to it that I've seen calls it an alba as well. Kohler gives a good description of it on p. 146. (fig. 171) Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 02:44:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA01721 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 02:44:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA17536; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 02:01:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA29957 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:58:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from munich.ixos.de (HOST.31.95.ixos.de [149.235.31.95]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA29943 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:58:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jacomo (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by munich.ixos.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23622 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:56:47 +0100 (WET DST) Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990916095345.00a21f00@pop.gmx.de> X-Sender: pompadour@gmx.li@pop.gmx.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:01:10 +0200 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Pompadour Subject: Re: H-COST: Men's Costuming In-Reply-To: <37E04F79.75B0@netwiz.net> References: <199909152058.OAA24438@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_5069108==_.ALT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pompadour --=====================_5069108==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 04:01 16.09.99 , you wrote: > > I have been thinking long and hard about this and I have decided to start a > > web page dedicated to Men's Costuming. Much of the discussion of costuming > > is aimed at the women, and I must admit that sometimes I feel like a second great idea - go for it! i'm asked about menswear often, but always i have to say "no, sorry". clothing myself comes first, so i have neither time nor funds to research men's, too. i'd love to have a webpage i could point them to. >That's because women just need more clothes (in any period)! >I haven't heard anyone discouraging the guys from jumping in. >Personally I'd like to hear more from guys who wear Japanese >or Middle Eastern costume. It's usually the interminable >kilt question or doublets. Or civil war uniforms. Yawn! one reason is, i believe, that so very few guys are interested in costuming. if they are, it's certain periods, as you've pointed out, or military stuff. many have this weak excuse that they can't sew. some additions to the list of disregarded men's costumes: rhingraves, justaucorps, cuts... salut, pompadour Yours, etc, Pompadour M.A. (Unseen University) AKA His Excellency, etc, the Minister of Silly Walks (Mrs) http://www.marquise.de webmaster@marquise.de --=====================_5069108==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 04:01 16.09.99 , you wrote:

> I have been thinking long and hard about this and I have decided to start a
> web page dedicated to Men's Costuming.  Much of the discussion of costuming
> is aimed at the women, and I must admit that sometimes I feel like a second

great idea - go for it! i'm asked about menswear often, but always i have to say "no, sorry". clothing myself comes first, so i have neither time nor funds to research men's, too. i'd love to have a webpage i could point them to.

That's because women just need more clothes (in any period)!
I haven't heard anyone discouraging the guys from jumping in.
Personally I'd like to hear more from guys who wear Japanese
or Middle Eastern costume. It's usually the interminable
kilt question or doublets. Or civil war uniforms. Yawn!

one reason is, i believe, that so very few guys are interested in costuming. if they are, it's certain periods, as you've pointed out, or military stuff. many have this weak excuse that they can't sew.

some additions to the list of disregarded men's costumes: rhingraves, justaucorps, cuts...


salut,
pompadour


Yours, etc, Pompadour M.A. (Unseen University) AKA
His Excellency, etc, the Minister of Silly Walks (Mrs)
http://www.marquise.de            webmaster@marquise.de --=====================_5069108==_.ALT-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 05:31:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01939 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 05:31:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA23555; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:48:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA15024 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:43:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA15002 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:43:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JG19SRZDSW00DT18@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:48:29 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JG18XYF6JC00D7DS@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:08:03 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:01:37 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:01:30 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:01:19 +1100 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:01:19 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: Re: H-COST: Hand vs. Machine Sewing In-reply-to: <199909152252.QAA01924@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <44909FB17F9@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 Hi Dietmar > > (been known to spend an hour figuring out *how* to machine > > something rather than spend 10 minutes hand-sewing it... > > I'm with you in that respect. I tend to use those moments when I've gone > to bed, but before I fall asleep to work out design engineering problems > in my head. Ditto! > (I figured out how to sew and turn a bag lined cotehardie without > any hand sewing this way.) Ok, so share with the rest of us... if it's something you can explain by email. If it isn't I shall just have to be disappointed (an maybe I'll sulk....) Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 05:35:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01943 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 05:35:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA23776; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA16946 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:49:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA16920 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 04:49:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.81.221] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AA3D21FE012C; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:45:17 -0400 Message-ID: <002801bf0031$1e9a7620$dd51ccd1@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: <019e01befffe$122f0500$e670fea9@gunsafes> Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:49:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 12:43 AM >As an extra, > since it was Easter time, the instructor threw in a unit on natural egg > coloring. We used carrots, onion skins and a few other veggies. It was a > lot of fun. I have saved all the handouts from the class and could look up > the recipes for the specific veggies if anyone is interested. > Michelle > Michelle, Thank you for your offer--I'm SUPER-interested! Can you please e-mail the recipes to me? I've been wanting to do the 'natural dye' thing with my kiddos this Easter. =) I do have one "stupid" question though....especially in the case of the onions, do they give off an odour while you're making the dye? Back to bailing out my basement....whee, Floyd! Kerrie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 07:27:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02065 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:27:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29016; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:45:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA22491 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:40:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA22469 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:40:28 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909161240.GAA22469@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 7343 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 06:40:29 -0600 Received: from ts26-39.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.153) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 06:40:29 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: "Herjolfsnes #41" vs. Gotlund vs. 10-gore Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:45:06 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" I would be happy to call these garments by their rightful name, but how exactly do you pronounce Herjolfsnes? (g) Kathlene ---------- > From: Carol J. Bell Cannon > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: "Herjolfsnes #41" vs. Gotlund vs. 10-gore > Date: Wednesday, September 15, 1999 10:51 PM > > > -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > Herjolfsnes #41 is the most specific, and therefore the best > identifier, but many people may forget one or the other portion of > it--e.g., recall Herjolfsnes, and forget #41, or recall #41 and forget > Herjolfsnes. I, having been a for. language/anthropology major [back > before time began :-) ] like the whole, but understand why others may > prefer the other sobriquets for it. -- Gra/inne > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 07:32:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02071 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:32:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29289; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:49:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA24300 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:45:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24269 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:45:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08464 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:44:28 -0400 Message-ID: <37E0E62C.1C2F39B5@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:45:11 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Gore or panel?? References: <006d01bf0003$5b0f6260$e670fea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue And there's also "godet" which seems to be identical to "gore" -- a triangle, and "gusset" which differs from those by being sewn all the way around, such as putting extra fabric at the underarm. Michelle wrote: > Usually, a gore is triangular in shape and a panel is rectangle. > Example for a skirt or dress: A gore would be used to widen the bottom > half. A panel would be used to widen the whole thing fairly evenly. -- It's nearly time for October Fools' Day -- the Southern Hemisphere version of April Fools' Day. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 07:45:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02087 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:45:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00282; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:03:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28357 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:58:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28339 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:58:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990916125819.CHBX13005.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 05:58:19 -0700 Message-ID: <37E0E97E.270BFE36@home.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:58:38 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins References: <019e01befffe$122f0500$e670fea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Michelle wrote: > > I took a class a few years back on cooking for children. As an > extra, since it was Easter time, the instructor threw in a unit on > natural egg coloring. We used carrots, onion skins and a few other > veggies. It was a lot of fun. I have saved all the handouts from the > class and could look up the recipes for the specific veggies if anyone > is interested. I can't speak for everyone but I think there are a number on this list who would be interested in this info...could you post each recipe under it's veggie heading? How many are there? Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 07:46:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02091 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:46:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00364; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:03:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28603 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:59:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay20.smtp.psi.net (relay20.smtp.psi.net [38.8.20.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28590 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:59:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.119.75.41] (helo=kdp.tiac.net) by relay20.smtp.psi.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11Rb7v-0006QS-00; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:59:04 -0400 From: "John Page" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:24:18 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "John Page" Freeze 'em and store in the freezer, or dry 'em and store in a net bag or an old pillow case. Drying seems to produce a better color. Kristin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 07:48:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02095 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:48:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00528; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:04:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28807 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:59:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28801 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:59:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.161.142]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA10396 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37E0EA50.911BEE82@mediaone.net> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:02:08 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Cybercast References: <029801beffbc$23510780$2c4faccf@e4c2n6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Janice Dallas I saw the cybercast and liked it. Only problem was the picture was SO small on my monitor, about 1 and 1/2 inches by 2 inches. It's hard to see much in the way of details at that size. If the more computer-literate members of my family had been around, perhaps they'd have known a way of enlarging it. Really wanted a closer look at one dress. Couldn't figure out if it was a print or embroidery. Nice to know about the provenance of some of the dresses. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 07:53:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02127 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:53:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01189; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:10:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA00819 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:05:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00813 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:05:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FI5006MTLO278@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:04:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:13:07 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Tengores In-reply-to: <199909160416.WAA01672@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990916081307.007a6a70@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson > >Would just plain "Greenland Gown" be acceptable terminology? I wouldn't have a prroblem with it, if it were the only garment found in Greenland. There were something like 14 dresses (in more than 4 different but similar styles) found in the Herjolfsnes cemetery. I have no idea why these this style seems to be the most commonly known, except perhaps that they are the most unusual in construction. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 07:58:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02137 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:58:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01693; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:15:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA02660 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:10:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02645 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:10:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FI50070WLWYAY@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:10:10 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:18:27 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Canadian Iceman update OT In-reply-to: <199909160416.WAA01672@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990916081827.007a8ca0@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson "BP" technically means "Before Present", where "Present" is an assumed date of 1950. This way the term remains meaningful, regardless of when we look at the date. As for being "PC", it's not. It's a means of expressing accuracy to anyone, by anyone, regardless of the dating system that they use - and has been so for many, many years. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 08:01:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02157 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:01:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01934; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:17:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA03375 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:12:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA03351 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:12:41 -0600 (MDT) From: trekona@erols.com Received: from erols.com (207-172-132-98.s98.tnt5.col.md.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.132.98]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA14984 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:12:45 -0400 (EDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Dimensions for Hedeby Dress Fragment? Date: Thu, 16 Sep 99 13:13:20 GMT Message-ID: References: <199909142321.TAA14966@bajor.ici.net> X-Mailer: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00] Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: trekona@erols.com > -Poster: Irene leNoir > > I'm hoping someone will be able to help me with an obscure question. no other vikings on the list want to jump in here? ok, I will, then. > I know that a fragment of a garment was found at an archeological dig at > Hedeby. I know it is widely believed to be from a Viking-era apron or > tube dress, and I've heard different theories on how the dress should be > reconstructed from this fragment. The fragment in question looks > approximately like so (bad ASCII art follows) > > ---------- > | | > | | > | | > | | > | \ > | \ > | \ > | \ > | \ > | \ > | \ > ----------------- > > What I'm wondering is.. .. Does anyone have any references that give the > dimensions of this fragment? Your ascii art is just fine! while I haven't seen the references that give the actual dimensions of the piece (possibly in the Hedeby Textile Finds, but the German is too tough for my ancient memory), I can give you an idea of how I make this apron. Dimensions are determined by each body. First, since descriptions of the clothing usually seems to say "tight fighting at the top and flared out over the hips", then obviously the (nearly) straight part is the torso section, and the flare-out goes over the hips/legs. Second, as I said, I've never seen the actual *fragment*, but to cut the fabric with this large a flair (for those of us.. gifted.. sized!) is a supreme waste of fabric - and I know because I've done it, and no you can't dove-tail the pieces. The most logical construction to me is to make the garment out of a series of straight rectangular panels that are widened by gores from the waist down. It gives *exactly* the same shape, with much less fabric waste. and if you've ever sewn on hand woven fabric, there's much less cutting (which gave me the willies!) since you can weave the panels directly to size and only cut the gores. To make this, you need to measure yourself around which ever is widest - bust or waist - then measure your front bust (apex to apex) and determine how many panels this wide do you need to comfortably go around you and your dress & underdress that you'll be wearing beneath the apron. I usually use 6 panels, it gives a nice flair. Don't worry if it bags under the arms, you can always make long side darts - they did apparently. Sew these panels together for a tube the length from your underarms to your waist (don't forget that top hem!). Now add in gores between each panel - whatever width you need to fill between the panels as they go over your hips. I prefer my aprons to be about as long as my dress which is about ankle length. ---------- | | | | | | | | | :\ | : \ | : \ | : \ you get the idea. Hang the apron by loops over the shoulder: little bitty loop to catch the brooch pin in the front, and long loops from the back that reach to the brooch top in the front (other apron-dress). Carolyn Priest-Dorman addresses this garment in her _Women's Garb in Northern Europe, 450-1000 CE" (The Compleat Anachronist #59. SCA 1984), it may also be on her web-site. Hope this helps. Judy Mitchell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 08:40:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02197 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:40:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08394; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:56:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18612 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:52:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18603 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:52:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.152] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11RbxP-0007S9-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:52:15 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 06:50:06 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: "Herjolfsnes #41" vs. Gotlund vs. 10-gore In-Reply-To: <199909161240.GAA22469@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 06:45 AM 09/16/1999 -0600, you wrote: -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" >I would be happy to call these garments by their rightful name, but how exactly do you pronounce >Herjolfsnes? (g) Kathlene Keep in mind that I'm extrapolating from German : Hair yolfs [like yolks] ness [like the Loch Ness]...and thinking pron. for speakers of American English. :-) If anyone knows of a more proper way to pronounce it, please 'speak up'. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 09:15:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02245 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 09:15:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12807; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:32:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02045 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:28:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1-1.bctel.ca (mail1-1.bctel.ca [207.194.28.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02026 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 08:28:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bc.sympatico.ca (clwk01m01-35.bctel.ca [209.52.192.35]) by mail1-1.bctel.ca (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id HAA03467 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E0FE90.3F25BE1A@bc.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:28:32 -0700 From: Marilyn Warren Organization: Crone's Sewing Circle and Terrorist Society X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en]C-SYMPA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Canadian Iceman update References: <584faad5.25118bc9@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marilyn Warren > << Dating is still uncertain. The range is expected to be > sometime between 250 and 5000 B.P. (Before Present), with early guesses > favoring 2000 BP. >> > In my science books - as us most other books I read - the term used is CE or BCE (Common Era or Before the Common Era). I have never heard the term BP before and hope I never do again. It is so ambiguous as to be meaningless. BP could mean yesterday or a week ago or a year ago or a million years ago. Morgan Crawford of Shrewsbury _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 11:06:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02374 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:06:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28065; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:21:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08463 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:18:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08446 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:18:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA28984 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:18:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:18:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Actually, I'd encourage him to store them in a paper bag or net bag (the kind that onions come in from the store). What I usually do when I need to do some onion skin dyeing is go to the store and clean out all the old onion skins from the bin; the cashier is usually very amused that I've got a bag of old onion skins, and interested in the dyeing project. And, of course, I usually buy something while I'm there. -- Mara On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Jean Waddie wrote: > > -Poster: Jean Waddie > > Hello all. I'm not even going to think about telling you how little > sewing I actually do - can we make that hours per year, rather than per > week? > > Anyway, my DH has decided he's going to Hastings 2000, and wants to > natural-dye some of his kit with onion skins. He's started collecting > them in an airtight biscuit tin, but my worry is that they will go > mouldy before he has enough to do anything with. Can anyone reassure > me, or tell me the tricks to make sure they don't turn into something > oozy and disgusting that tries to take over the kitchen? > > I wouldn't want to discourage him, since it's the first time he's ever > started making something more than two weeks before the event :-) > > Jean > -- > Jean Waddie > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 11:17:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02380 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:17:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29907; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:34:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11471 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:30:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from post.its.mcw.edu (post.its.mcw.edu [141.106.32.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11454 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:30:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mschulte@localhost) by post.its.mcw.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA11121 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:23:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Marie Schulte Message-Id: <199909161623.LAA11121@post.its.mcw.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:23:35 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: from "Kevin & Mara Riley" at Sep 16, 99 12:18:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marie Schulte Ok, I admit, I haven't ever done this, but... As one collected a bag or some measure of "enough" onion skins, could one not boil them in a little bit of water to create the dye, strain it, and then freeze the 'dye'? As one collected another bag of skins, boil them in the previously made dye? Or conversely, just collect small batches of dye in the freezer? Just a different idea. -Marie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 11:24:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02394 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:24:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01423; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:40:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13204 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:37:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13167 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:37:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA02066 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:37:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: h-costume-digest V4 #586 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Actually, 'worsted' means that the fibers are combed, rather than carded, and spun in such a way that the fibers lay parallel to the direction in which they are spun, not perpendicular to the direction of spinning. This means that the yarn is less 'fluffy', there's less air in the yarn, which gives you a 'harder' surface (less hairs sticking out from the surface of the yarn). Wool combs are quite ancient. And yes, worsted cloth can be fulled. I've got a lovely worsted singles skein from a friend's Border Leicester sheep -- a nice natural grey-brown color -- that would be perfect for knitted Shetland lace. Even though it's worsted-spun, it's still very soft to the touch, since the fleece is so nice. If I wove it up, though, rather than knitting the yarn, it would probably make a nice, non-fuzzy fabric. -- Mara On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 rima@anet.net wrote: > > -Poster: rima@anet.net > > Robin N says: > > >That much I knew. But I'm afraid that *still* doesn't clue me in on > >whether worsted can be fulled. > > Sure it can. > > >Or -- perhaps a better question -- whether > >it *was* fulled. > > Probably. It dramatically increases the strength of the fabric, since it > locks all the little wool-fibre-micro-hooks together. > > >Or even if it was made during the Middle Ages. > > Don't know for sure, but I would guess so. Even the word "worsted" is old. > Any cloth you would weave that has a "harder" finish would be made from > "worsted" yarns. > (snip) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 11:26:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02406 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:26:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01689; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:42:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13588 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:38:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13556 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:38:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA02277 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:38:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:38:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Men's Costuming In-Reply-To: <37E04F79.75B0@netwiz.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley After all, many of us women are also responsible for putting our men's kit's together, too :D -- Mara On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Susan Fatemi wrote: > > -Poster: Susan Fatemi > > Bergdahl, Stephen wrote: > > > > -Poster: "Bergdahl, Stephen" > > > > Dear Members of the list > > > > I have been thinking long and hard about this and I have decided to start a > > web page dedicated to Men's Costuming. Much of the discussion of costuming > > is aimed at the women, and I must admit that sometimes I feel like a second > > > That's because women just need more clothes (in any period)! > I haven't heard anyone discouraging the guys from jumping in. > Personally I'd like to hear more from guys who wear Japanese > or Middle Eastern costume. It's usually the interminable > kilt question or doublets. Or civil war uniforms. Yawn! > We never seem to hear from anyone who wears full Cavalier > costume. Or Moghul! (Unless I missed that one) > > So can ladies join your list?? > > Susan F. > > -- > Oh Noh! Kimonos! > susanf@netwiz.net > http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 11:28:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02410 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:28:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02291; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:44:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA14390 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:41:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14349 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:41:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA02677 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:41:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins In-Reply-To: <019e01befffe$122f0500$e670fea9@gunsafes> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Yes, I'm interested in hearing about the other dyes you got from veggies for easter eggs. THanks, Mara On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Michelle wrote: (snip) > since it was Easter time, the instructor threw in a unit on natural egg > coloring. We used carrots, onion skins and a few other veggies. It was a > lot of fun. I have saved all the handouts from the class and could look up > the recipes for the specific veggies if anyone is interested. > Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 11:33:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02420 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:33:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03316; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:49:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA15606 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:46:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15560 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:45:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA03368 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:45:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:45:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: sailor's palm In-Reply-To: <37DD9DCE.74FC3BD4@pacbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Sailor's palms can be ordered from Boat U.S. They have a catalog, but I don't have their phone number handy. I think their headquarters are in Alexandria, VA. On Tue, 14 Sep 1999, Dietmar wrote: > > -Poster: Dietmar > > Greetings, > > Someone (I'm sorry, but I don't remember who) wrote: > > >>> Try using a sailor's palm for pushing the needle thru a corset. > >>> Saves much wear & tear on the fingers. > > Lonna wondered: > > >> What is a sailor's palm and where can I find one? > > Zelda confirmed: > > > Sounds interesting. Is it for making sails with? How is it handled/used? > > I've never really seen or used one, but from what I understand it is a spoon > shaped metal depression that fits into the palm of your hand and can be used > to push needles through many heavy layers. I believe they may be attached to a > sort of glove and that in a pinch you could probably use a soup spoon to > hobble together a home made variant. > > Regards, > > Dietmar > > > "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; > over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 11:49:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02489 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:49:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05681; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:05:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19444 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:02:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19432 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:02:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09446 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:02:07 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp204-148.worldonline.nl [195.241.204.148]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19219 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:02:06 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909161702.TAA19219@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Need information on Northern Spanish (Leon) garb; late 12th, early 13th C. Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 21:04:54 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi all, Lonna wrote: > I am writing on behalf of a friend of mine whose persona is from late 12th > to early 13th C. Leon (Northern Spain). She has garb that works for now, but > she would like to find information on some that is more authentic. It > doesn't have to be from the height of fashion as her persona is traveling > with a mercenary group as a combination fighter and medic. A female fighter??? around 1200??? in Spain??? and a medic??? (maybe a herb-doctor?) I hope I'm giving > you enough to start on. > > (Henk, is this time period within your specialty range?) It's a bit early, but it should be long and loose (gores at the sides!) with tight sleeves at the wrist, lots of layers, semi circular mantle, there could be some embroidery on cuffs, biceps and collars or strips of other coloured stuff in the same places or both of these combined. Headcovering by fine bleached linen or maybe even muslin. Fine (dyed) cordovan belts, purses and shoes. For extra warmth sleeveless cottes/jupels. Bright colours. For reference check the illustrations in the Cantiguas of Alfonso the Wise of the early 13th c. Hope this helps, Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 11:49:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02493 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:49:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05688; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:05:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19442 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:02:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19425 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:02:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09433 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:02:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp204-148.worldonline.nl [195.241.204.148]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19207 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:02:04 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909161702.TAA19207@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: "H-COSTUME" Subject: H-COST: Re H-Cost: costuming and haircolour Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 20:54:21 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi all, I don't consider myself a professional costumer. However: I made all the costumes I own myself and sometimes sew for my sons as well (Pauline does her own too and for the kids as well). I think I'm more a costume historian, who tries out the things he finds out for himself. That's something most costume historians in the past didn't and this fact leaps out of about every page they write. Most of them have never even worn historical costume to find out how it feels and holds itself in different environments. I love doing this and keep experimenting with all kinds of medieval outfits in all kinds of weather and with all kinds of activities. My sister has her own costume studio and sews for our business and for all kinds of re-enactment freaks and societies. She also appears on our medieval markets with her own tailors stall in 13th, 14th and soon also 15th c dress. She used to be blond but until recently died her hair red (!). She stopped doing that and it's now whitish grey; suits her very well. I just finished my first 15th c dress item: an orange sleeveless pourpoint of the 1470's fully lined and interlined. I still have to finish the points. My next one is going to be a sleeved doublet of lovely dark green worsted with a linen lining, but I don't know where to get the time to do this (and the hose, and the jacke and the hood, etc. etc..). Incidentally: I'm not a redhead, neither is Pauline (although she sometimes seems to have red highlights in her hair, which is beautiful and very long). I'm 6'2'', a bit heavyish (but not too much), 51 years old and have dark brown, longish hair (still a kind of hippy, but it also suits my appearances as a medieval person; I have Pauline cut it in late 13th c style) a short beard and droopy mustache, all nicely greying. My eyes are greenish brown; greener in summer, browner in winter and I have fair skin which tends to freckle in summer. My wardrobe seems to consist of blue and black jeans, jean shorts (worn them a lot this summer, which has been wonderful until today; it started to rain this afternoon and the summer turned into autumn instantly) some blue and black linen or half silk 'colberts' (jackets), a loose short summer coat and a warm longer winter coat per season, lots of T-shirts with buttoned neckslits which I wear open as I cannot stand tight collars (I don't own a single tie!), shirts with short and long sleeves (which I always roll up to about 8" above the wrist as I cannot stand long sleeves as well; funny that: do you think this means something?) and in winter open-necked sweathers. These are all cotton and some silks, I don't wear any plastic, ever. I like all kinds of colours, but greens, browns, reds, ochres, blues, greys, creams and black are my favourites. Oh, I forgot, I still have a tuxedo with all the fittings hidden in my closet. I don't own a single suit and I'm lucky not to need one in my line of work. And I own one pair of good, sturdy black shoes... All the rest of my clothes and accessories are medieval and they outnumber my present wardrobe by about 1,5 to 1. So there, now you know...;-) Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 11:52:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02511 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:52:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06143; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:08:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20211 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:05:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20198 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:05:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vega.utulsa.edu by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) id <0FI500G01WS99B@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:04:57 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:04:57 -0500 (CDT) From: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu Subject: Re: H-COST: "Herjolfsnes #41" vs. Gotlund ... In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.19990916115625.007a9e30@pop.utulsa.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <0FI500G03WS99B@vega.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.9 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 129.244.6.37 References: <3.0.6.32.19990916115625.007a9e30@pop.utulsa.edu> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu <"Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > >>I would be happy to call these garments by their rightful name, but how >>exactly do you pronounce >Herjolfsnes? (g) Kathlene >>Keep in mind that I'm extrapolating from German : Hair yolfs [like yolks] ness [like the Loch Ness]...and thinking pron. for speakers of American English. :-) If anyone knows of a more proper way to pronounce it, please 'speak up'. Carol Not speaking Norse (Norsk or even Dansk), my personal guess has leaned more toward "Her yolfs [golf] neze" but "yolfs [like yolks] ness" may well be more correct. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 11:57:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02515 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:57:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06852; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:13:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21586 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:10:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21571 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:10:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p37.directcon.net [206.170.184.86]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA24889 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:10:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:10:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909161710.KAA24889@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Men's Costuming Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson At 12:38 PM 09/16/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley > >After all, many of us women are also responsible for putting our men's >kit's together, too :D Some of my best work has been done for men. they're much easier to work for, IMHO. They usually have a realistic attitude toward their bodies and what clothes can or can't do for them, and they seem to rpay more attention to good craftsmanship. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 11:58:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02519 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:58:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06763; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:13:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21481 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:10:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21471 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:10:12 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6LRWa13820 (4427) for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:09:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <57b69399.25127e53@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:09:39 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair color/OT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 9/14/1999 6:18:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << I've been considering the Clairol Natural Instincts Black Cherry colorant, ever since someone told me it turned her grey hair bright purple. Now THAT sounds like fun! Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm >> ok, margo, now THAT's fun! Over the years, I too, have gone pretty gray, although those nasty gray hairs have never seen more than 1/2 " of the light of day, so to speak! I occasionally use that dark red stuff, and it does indeed, turn one's hair various shades of plum. Do take a pic and post it on your web site, then we'll have Penny give it a name for her color book! angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare http://come.to/costumes http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 11:58:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02523 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:58:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06965; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:14:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21716 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:11:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21707 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:11:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vega.utulsa.edu by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) id <0FI500G01X1FDC@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:10:27 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:10:27 -0500 (CDT) From: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu Subject: Re: H-COST: Dimensions for Hedeby Dress Fragment? In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.19990916115625.007a9e30@pop.utulsa.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <0FI500G03X1FDC@vega.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.9 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 129.244.6.37 References: <3.0.6.32.19990916115625.007a9e30@pop.utulsa.edu> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu Quoting Marc Carlson : From: trekona@erols.com >I'm hoping someone will be able to help me with an obscure question. I've been trying to find my notes on Hedeby, but if memory serves the length isn't a lot more than a foot-a foot and a half long. It's not a big piece of fabric. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 11:59:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02533 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:59:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06921; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:14:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21701 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:11:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21689 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:11:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vega.utulsa.edu by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) id <0FI500G01X1BD6@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:10:23 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:10:23 -0500 (CDT) From: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu Subject: Re: H-COST: Dimensions for Hedeby Dress Fragment? In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.19990916115625.007a9e30@pop.utulsa.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <0FI500G03X1BD6@vega.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.9 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 129.244.6.37 References: <3.0.6.32.19990916115625.007a9e30@pop.utulsa.edu> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu Quoting Marc Carlson : From: trekona@erols.com >I'm hoping someone will be able to help me with an obscure question. I've been trying to find my notes on Hedeby, but if memory serves the length isn't a lot more than a foot-a foot and a half long. It's not a big piece of fabric. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 12:00:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02541 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:00:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06993; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:14:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21757 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:11:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21730 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:11:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vega.utulsa.edu by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) id <0FI500G01X1JDF@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:10:31 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:10:31 -0500 (CDT) From: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu Subject: Re: H-COST: Dimensions for Hedeby Dress Fragment? In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.19990916115625.007a9e30@pop.utulsa.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <0FI500G03X1JDF@vega.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.9 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 129.244.6.37 References: <3.0.6.32.19990916115625.007a9e30@pop.utulsa.edu> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu Quoting Marc Carlson : From: trekona@erols.com >I'm hoping someone will be able to help me with an obscure question. I've been trying to find my notes on Hedeby, but if memory serves the length isn't a lot more than a foot-a foot and a half long. It's not a big piece of fabric. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 12:01:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02550 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:01:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07479; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:17:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22604 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:14:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA22587 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:14:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Thu Sep 16 10:13:40 1999 To: "Historic Costume" Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:13:40 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Expiredinmiddle: true X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: H-COST: TV alert X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.36.136 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Hi, I'm not sure how many of you get The Learning Channel where you live but as I was reading through their schedule today I found a program that I intend to watch that I thought might have been of some interest to the rest of you. It's called "Next to Nothing". It is described as "The history of women is reflected in fashion's hidden layer: lingerie. Explore the evolution behind underclothes, from Victorian corsets through the bra-burnings of the 1970s and the sexy styles of today." It airs on TLC September 24th at 10:00pm & 1:00am (EST). Ever Yours, Ginnaphure ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ICQ# 41340093 AIM: Ginnaphure "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 12:13:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02566 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:13:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08493; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:27:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25432 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:24:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.zebra.net (mail.zebra.net [209.12.13.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25422 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:24:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from zebra.net ([209.12.238.26]) by mail.zebra.net (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-12345L500S10000V35) with ESMTP id net for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:19:33 -0500 Message-ID: <37E12796.1DFED3BF@zebra.net> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:23:34 -0500 From: Meribeth McCombs X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: civil war References: <005001bf0002$56db2400$e670fea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Meribeth McCombs Michelle - That was me with the uniform question. So far so good on making it, but I still have no idea as to how to attach the trim. I missed your offer, so I apologize for not getting to you sooner. Could you check on it, please? MeriBeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 12:27:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02577 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:27:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10841; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:42:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29134 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:39:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29097 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:39:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem102.barney.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.102] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11RfVI-0001PX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:39:29 +0100 Message-ID: <007301bf006a$70f2b1b0$8f075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <199909161623.LAA11121@post.its.mcw.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:36:19 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Seems a bit finicky to me but might work ; I have only ever kept left over amounts , which has precipated , I suppose because of air getting in the bottle; I would certainly keep it well stoppered and in the dark and LABELLED; Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters > -Poster: Marie Schulte > > Ok, I admit, I haven't ever done this, but... > > As one collected a bag or some measure of "enough" onion skins, could one > not boil them in a little bit of water to create the dye, strain it, and > then freeze the 'dye'? As one collected another bag of skins, boil > them in the previously made dye? Or conversely, just collect small > batches of dye in the freezer? > > Just a different idea. > -Marie > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 12:29:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02581 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:29:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11270; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:45:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA29715 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:42:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29697 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:42:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vega.utulsa.edu by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) id <0FI500H01YGW08@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:41:20 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:41:20 -0500 (CDT) From: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu Subject: Re: H-COST: Canadian Iceman update OT (Longish) To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <0FI500H03YGW08@vega.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: IMP/PHP3 Imap webMail Program 2.0.9 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 129.244.6.37 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu >From: Marilyn Warren >Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 07:28:32 -0700 >Subject: Re: H-COST: Canadian Iceman update > >- -Poster: Marilyn Warren > >> << Dating is still uncertain. The range is expected to be >> sometime between 250 and 5000 B.P. (Before Present), with early guesses >> favoring 2000 BP. >> >In my science books - as us most other books I read - the term used is >CE or BCE (Common Era or Before the Common Era). I have never heard >the term BP before and hope I never do again. It is so ambiguous as >to be meaningless. BP could mean yesterday or a week ago or a year >ago or a million years ago. > >Morgan Crawford of Shrewsbury I don't agree. Just like most forms of "jargon", what it really means is obscured by it's brevity, and unless you have been trained in the use of that jargon, you have no reason to understand what someone else is talking about -- after all, how big is a Size 1 dress anyway? :) My area of focus is medieval shoes, and most of the material published on them is in archaeological jargon. Over the past few years, I've been making an attempt to learn the hidden meanings in shoemaking jargon in order to better understand and hopefully to better explain shoemaking. One of the things that was immeadiately obvious was that most of the shoemaking terms were totally obscure and paid close attention to details that were (to me) irrelevant, while the gentleman who was teaching me found the same problem with the jargon I was using. We eventually realized that the problem was that although we were both looking at the same materials (thread, leather, and so forth), we were looking from different perspectives - one the understanding of what the leather artifacts looked like, the other, the process of how to get the leather to become a shoe. For example, a flesh-edge butted seam versus a split sewn closure. For me, the former was self-evident in its meaning. You have two bits of leather, mirroring one another, with the holes entering the sides of the leather, curving and coming out the meeting edges. Basically, it's a description of the hole. The other was meaningless (especially since to me a "split stitch" was a type of embroidery stitch). But I was wrong. "Sewn" meant that the awl (and hence the thread) did not pass through to be seen on both sides of the work (as opposed to "stitching"), splitting more or less means that the leather is split by the awl as it comes out the edge. And the opening between the two pieces of leather is being closed. I could also use terms like "round seam" or "flat" to determine how far from the edge the awl should be going into the leather. In fact, these terms are frequently self evident to people who make shoes (A properly made round seam is a beauty and a joy to behold...) Sometimes jargon terms are selected from ignorance (I strongly doubt that if Norlund had known more about English language garment making terms, he would have chosen the term "gores" for example), but more often when we know what the term is intended to mean, we can see why that term was selected, and have a better understanding. Of course, that doesn't mean we will still like it though :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 13:20:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02629 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:20:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19934; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:36:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA12725 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:32:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12717 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:32:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem15.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.143] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11RgKl-000380-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:32:40 +0100 Message-ID: <008701bf0071$dee09d70$8f075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <0FI500H03YGW08@vega.utulsa.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoe terminology; wasCanadian Iceman update OT Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:32:02 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Marc, Thank you for a very for a wonderful description. I now know who to come to when people ask me what one earth I am talking about., which is quite often. Although there are some slight regional variations, I believe, and I have not made any particular study of it as you have. A typical problem is explaining that (eg)--- "making " does not mean all of the manufacture but only the bringing together of the 'closed' upper with the bottom parts; "Bottoming" is what is done afterwards; -Parts for uppers are "clicked" but parts of bottoms are " cut"---and all this before we get into deeper things ; I can only demonstrate a "turn-welt" I cannot do it in words even with a lot of arm waving. I can live with most of it although I do get a little perplexed with people who insist on calling a multi-armed iron cobbler's "hob" ; a "last" While I have an expert to ask. There is something that I have always wanted to confirm; I have always supposed the the introduction of (wooden) last cutting machinery ( a US invention) was closely associated with the machine used to cut standard stocks for muskets (Springfield?) It seems only a slight modification was needed to allow the machine to cut two "handed" but otherwise identical lasts. I would appreciate your views on this; It is something that has always intrigued me. Anyway it's heart warming to know that there is another shoe person on the list. Dave ----- Original Message ----- > -Poster: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu > snip> For example, a flesh-edge butted seam > versus a split sewn closure. For me, the former was > self-evident in its meaning. You have two bits of > leather, mirroring one another, with the holes entering > the sides of the leather, curving and coming out the > meeting edges. Basically, it's a description of the > hole. The other was meaningless (especially since to me > a "split stitch" was a type of embroidery stitch). But > I was wrong. "Sewn" meant that the awl (and hence the > thread) did not pass through to be seen on both sides of > the work (as opposed to "stitching"), splitting more or > less means that the leather is split by the awl as it > comes out the edge. And the opening between the two > pieces of leather is being closed. I could also use > terms like "round seam" or "flat" to determine how far > from the edge the awl should be going into the leather. > In fact, these terms are frequently self evident to > people who make shoes (A properly made round seam is a > beauty and a joy to behold...) > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 13:20:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02633 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:20:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16180; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:14:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07642 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:11:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07622 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:11:38 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnoraK@aol.com Received: from AnnoraK@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6PYDa04850 (3975) for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:10:54 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:10:52 EDT Subject: H-COST: Les Incroyables et Mervilleuses To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnoraK@aol.com Since it's now heading into cooler weather, I've decided that *this* will be the year that I use the wool I've been hoarding to make myself a new coat. For some reason, not sure which, I'm stuck on the idea of making a stylized/exaggerated overcoat with big cuffs and lapels. This somehow led to Les Incroyables -- an extreme style of dress that appeared in France somewhere around the French Revolution. I'm looking for information on said fad. I've checked Davenport & Boucher (they were still out from the last project) and found nothing. Does anyone know of a source that has more than a single drawing or sentence about them?? Thanks! Jen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 13:28:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02656 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:28:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12931; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:54:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02323 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:51:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02303 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:51:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.78]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:46:04 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Wool stuff (Kinda long....sorry....) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:51:38 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37ef2afb.131440704@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id LAA02309 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Tue, 14 Sep 1999 22:46:36 -0500 (CDT), the following was written in this electric book by Robin Netherton : >That much I knew. But I'm afraid that *still* doesn't clue me in on >whether worsted can be fulled. Or -- perhaps a better question -- whether >it *was* fulled. Or even if it was made during the Middle Ages. For >instance, if worsted could not be fulled very well, and fulled cloth was >valued, then worsted might not have been preferred. Anyone have any solid >evidence on the existence and/or use of worsted wools in the European >Middle Ages? Worsted is spun with the grain of the fibers (they are organised before spinning by combing, so that they all lie in one direction, and you keep then in that direction as you spin) and woollen is not (for woollen, you card teh fibes so that they lie everywhich way and spin up into a fluffy yars, suitable for sweaters, etc). Techically, nearly all wool spun in europe until the 13th-14th century (when wool cards for fluffing rather than straightening fiber appeared) was worsted. And they fulled it. So the answer to your question is 'yes'. Worsted does full less obviously than woollen, because the fibers have less room to move. However, it does felt up a little bit, which does improve the water-resistance and overall texture, and the fibers do lock together, which thickens the cloth, but it isn't as obvious as with woollen. Does this help? Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 13:28:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02660 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:28:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21371; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:44:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA14750 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:41:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA14740 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:41:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 22841 invoked by alias); 16 Sep 1999 18:41:13 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 22835 invoked by uid 0); 16 Sep 1999 18:41:13 -0000 Received: from bdsl41.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.41) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 18:41:13 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990916134005.00973b90@rrnet.com> X-Sender: baird@rrnet.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:41:12 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Subject: H-COST: pronunciation Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" Herjolfsnes hair yolf (rhymes with golf) ness Just like it's spelled! Kim (whose grandparents were mostly Norwegian) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 13:35:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02666 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:35:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22314; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:50:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA16232 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:47:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from zeus.directcon.net (zeus.directcon.net [206.170.184.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16226 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 12:47:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p21.directcon.net [206.170.184.120]) by zeus.directcon.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA11905 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:47:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909161847.LAA11905@zeus.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: 1850's wrapper question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I have some questions about wrappers of the `1850's, and how and when they were worn. In this particular case, the wearers would be recent immigrants to California, the respectable women who came for the Gold Rush. One school of thought contends that wrappers were an "undress" garment, worn only in the privacy of one's home, or for maternity wear, usually over chemise and petticoats, and that they would not have been worn in public at all. Basically, a bathrobe. the other school of thought, is that a wrapper was a very casual style that was still considered decent enough for public wear when worn with decent accesories such as sunbonnet, apron, etc, and probably with some form of stays. It would have been worn on the emigrant trail or while living in rough conditions such as tents in the mining camps, for everyday work wear. They wouldn't have worn it to church or when making calls, but it would have been proper for the normal course of a day, including while running errands or in other public situations. In other words, sweats. I'd be interested in hearing opinions, or documentation for either theory. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 14:08:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02724 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:08:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25951; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:23:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24000 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:20:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23988 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:20:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA05709 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:25:12 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:25:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: "Herjolfsnes #41" vs. Gotlund vs. 10-gore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Okay, I'm all for calling things by their proper names, but how in blazes does one pronounce "Herjolfsnes"? Emma On Wed, 15 Sep 1999, Carol J. Bell Cannon wrote: > > -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > Herjolfsnes #41 is the most specific, and therefore the best > identifier, but many people may forget one or the other portion of > it--e.g., recall Herjolfsnes, and forget #41, or recall #41 and forget > Herjolfsnes. I, having been a for. language/anthropology major [back > before time began :-) ] like the whole, but understand why others may > prefer the other sobriquets for it. -- Gra/inne > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 14:20:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02736 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:20:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27741; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:36:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA26836 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:33:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26823 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:33:06 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6PACa03172 (4544) for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:32:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <48737530.25129fd1@aol.com> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:32:33 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: 1850's wrapper question To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Margo, Check with Inez Brooks-Myers at The Oakland Museum and then let us know her thoughts. My mid-19th century knowledge is minimal and I would like to know more. Sally Costume Calendar Series Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 14:37:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02745 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:37:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29611; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:53:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01044 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:49:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailjay.creighton.edu (mailjay.creighton.edu [147.134.2.126]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01036 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:49:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from brujne.creighton.edu (brujne.creighton.edu [147.134.201.104]) by mailjay.creighton.edu (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.8.6) with SMTP id OAA01989 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:49:51 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <199909161949.OAA01989@mailjay.creighton.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Cindy Abel" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:48:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Les Incroyables et Mervilleuses Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cindy Abel" Jen: Try Aileen Riberio's works. There is one; I forget the title, but it deals with French fashion from the pre-Revolutionary era to the Consulate(just before Napoleon staged his coup that eventually led to declaring himself Emperor) There is a plate or two and some discussion of the Incroyables and Mervilleuses. This style of dress developed shortly after the fall of Robespierre, ending the Terror(the mass arrests and guillotining of anyone suspected of being anti-revolutionary. It started with the trial and execution of Louis XVI in early 1793 and ended with the arrest and guillotining of Robespierre and his party in (I think) July, 1794.). Riberio reproduces many French fashion plates of the era, but all the fashion magazines practically stopped publishing during the height of the Terror--fashion, even patriotic fashion, being wasteful and therefore antirevolutionary. If you caught the "Scarlet Pimpernel" on A&E some months ago(two more episodes are supposed to be coming)you will note the range of fashions during the Terror--and a hint of the Incroyables and Mervilleuses to come. The most extreme Mervilleuse fashions that Riberio discusses are not fall and winter weather suitable, although an outbreak of pneumonia was blamed on the followers of Mervilleuse fashion and not the impossibly high cost of fuel! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 15:12:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02782 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:12:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00171; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:56:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01644 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:52:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01628 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:52:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11RhaK-0007Tq-0K for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:52:49 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:46:09 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie Thank you all for your helpful tips. After Dave's post I thought I would just give up - let him get discouraged slowly. But I will show him all your information, throw out the skins we have and make friendly with the local greengrocer when the DH gets round to actually wanting to do the dyeing. And maybe I can find an event where he can be an interesting bit of living history and do his dyeing _outside_, and near someone else's neighbours. (We live in a flat with a shared drying green - might not be popular making smells there) Thank you all Jean In message , Jean Waddie writes > >-Poster: Jean Waddie > >Hello all. I'm not even going to think about telling you how little >sewing I actually do - can we make that hours per year, rather than per >week? > >Anyway, my DH has decided he's going to Hastings 2000, and wants to >natural-dye some of his kit with onion skins. He's started collecting >them in an airtight biscuit tin, but my worry is that they will go >mouldy before he has enough to do anything with. Can anyone reassure >me, or tell me the tricks to make sure they don't turn into something >oozy and disgusting that tries to take over the kitchen? > >I wouldn't want to discourage him, since it's the first time he's ever >started making something more than two weeks before the event :-) > >Jean -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 15:14:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02786 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:14:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04647; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:29:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09371 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:26:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09357 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:26:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.144] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Ri74-0002Em-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:26:39 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:24:30 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Re H-Cost: costuming and haircolour In-Reply-To: <199909161702.TAA19207@worldonline.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 08:54 PM 09/15/1999, "Henk 't Jong" wrote:I think I'm more a costume >historian, who tries out the things he finds out for himself. That's >something most costume historians in the past didn't and this fact leaps >out of about every page they write. Most of them have never even worn >historical costume to find out how it feels and holds itself in different >environments. I love doing this and keep experimenting with all kinds of >medieval outfits in all kinds of weather and with all kinds of activities. So, Henk--when are you going to write and publish your book? I know those of us on the list who would purchase it are a small initial market, but I'm sure word would spread fast in the reenactment communities, too. -- Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 15:15:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02791 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:15:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00163; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:56:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01648 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:52:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01625 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:52:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11RhaK-000Blz-0C for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:52:49 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:33:38 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins In-Reply-To: <199909152009.QAA25945@williams.tricreations.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie In message <199909152009.QAA25945@williams.tricreations.com>, Elisee du Lyonnais writes > >-Poster: Elisee du Lyonnais > >I suggest if you really want to try keeping them to tuck the tin in the >freezer. > >I used to dye baskets with walnut husks - the green part that turns dark >brown as it ages. It's the right time of year to be collecting them, and >anyone with a walnut tree in their yard would love to have the husks >carted off. It produces a very very dark brown when I used them. Use >rubber gloves to pick up the walnuts or you'll stain your hands dark >brown as well. I used a metal garbage can with the husks and water, >built a fire around it to heat the water and simmered baskets for about >15 minutes to a half hour to get a deep brown. > >Suppose a very few husks in a lot of water might produce a lighter colour? > >Lisee Wow! So the fairy tales about people disguising themselves by dyeing their skin with walnut juice are true? Unfortunately I don't know anyone with a garden, never mind one with a walnut tree (do they grow in Scotland?) This would be a great colour to do naturally. Jean >Jean Waddie wrote: > >> >>-Poster: Jean Waddie >> >>Hello all. I'm not even going to think about telling you how little >>sewing I actually do - can we make that hours per year, rather than per >>week? >> >>Anyway, my DH has decided he's going to Hastings 2000, and wants to >>natural-dye some of his kit with onion skins. He's started collecting >>them in an airtight biscuit tin, but my worry is that they will go >>mouldy before he has enough to do anything with. Can anyone reassure >>me, or tell me the tricks to make sure they don't turn into something >>oozy and disgusting that tries to take over the kitchen? >> >>I wouldn't want to discourage him, since it's the first time he's ever >>started making something more than two weeks before the event :-) >> >>Jean >>-- >>Jean Waddie >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >> > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 15:28:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02826 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:28:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07803; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:43:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07104 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:16:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f32.hotmail.com [207.82.250.43]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA07087 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:16:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 90059 invoked by uid 0); 16 Sep 1999 20:16:07 -0000 Message-ID: <19990916201607.90058.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 12.21.110.240 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:16:07 PDT X-Originating-IP: [12.21.110.240] From: "Karie Mitchell" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:16:07 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Karie Mitchell" >I can't speak for everyone but I think there are a number on this list who >would be interested in this info...could you post each recipe under it's >veggie heading? How many are there? > >Kat Oooh! Oooh! Me, I'm one! Karie/Allessandre "Those who give up a little liberty for safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" - Ben Franklin ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 15:29:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02834 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:29:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08041; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:45:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06666 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:14:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06655 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:14:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.62] (ell78.acadia.net [205.217.218.62]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA08491 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:23:27 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:13:26 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: Canadian Iceman update Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) << BP could mean yesterday or a week ago or a year ago or a million years ago.>> I thin k perhaps you missed the point. BP is *in conjunction* with a number -- as in 500 BP (which means 500 years ago), or 250 BP (250 years ago.) You don't simply say something is "AD" -- you add the year. This works for those working within a Christian calendar, but as someone pointed out, there are many people in this world who don't (and some of those people have some of the best artifacts.) Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 15:30:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02840 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:30:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08236; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:45:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03545 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:01:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03524 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:01:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA28712 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:01:04 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp210-206.worldonline.nl [195.241.210.206]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA04282 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:00:48 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909162000.WAA04282@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Kunsthistorisches bliaut reply Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:33:13 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Charlene wrote: > In Joan Evans' "Dres in Mediaeval France" she states: A bliaut which > survives in the Imperial Treasury of Vienna is dated by an inscription > woven into its border, which states in Latin and in Arabic that it was > woven in Palermo in 1181." > This raised an eyebrow as I was unaware of any exsiting bliauts. So I > wrote the Kunsthistorisches Museum. I received a copy from their guide > "The Secular and Ecclesiastical Treasuries." Turns out what Evans > referred to as a "bliaut" the museum refers to as an alba. I don't know > if this is a translation issue (the original Evans was in French), a > changing in terminology, or what. Any ideas? > The original 'Dress in Medieval France' was published by the O.U.P. in 1952, in English, so the mistake was all Miss Evans'. There is however still a controversy what the word 'bliaut' really means. Is it a garment or is it a kind of cloth where this type of garment was usually made of i.e. a kind of silk. There is also a possibility that the one became the other; the material became the thing, like rubber... Anyway the A, the B and the L are all in both words, mayby it was just a word wrongly remembered or overlooked during correcting. Henk > --Charlene > > -- > Eagles may soar, but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 15:30:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02844 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:30:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08314; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:46:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03466 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:00:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03451 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:00:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA28331 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:00:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp210-206.worldonline.nl [195.241.210.206]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id WAA04266 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:00:45 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909162000.WAA04266@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Wool Question Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:20:36 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi all, This took some time to answer, but I did not have time to do the neccessary research. Now I have... > > >Does anyone know of any uses in medieval/renaissance periods of a > > >lightweight wool such as a gabardine? It's really lovely material and if > > >I was inclined to make myself a dress suit, it would be of this material. Gabardine (from old French 'gauvardine"= a kind of mantle, a rain mantle?) is not so much a type of cloth as a type of weave. It's a kind of four-shed twill or steep chevron weave with a tight warp and a looser weft (that's why the chevron or herring bone is so steep), which makes for a clear ribbled effect at the surface which is the warp appearing to be on top of the weft. Four shed twill, which produces a lozengy pattern, is very ancient. It was mainly woven on upright two-beam looms and produced finely woven and very waterproof mantles. The Frisians used this technique already in the 7th or 8th c and produced the famous Frisian mantles with it. They were exported all over the known world, even to the court of Harun al Rashid, via Charlemagne (who did not much like the shorter Frisian mantles: "not long enough to cover your arse:" he's supposed to have said, because he preferred the longer Frankish mantles). Gabardine then was made from combed wool and so was a type of worsted (!). Later on it was also made from other yarns: combed wool warp and normal wool weft or cotton weft, all cotton or, recently, mixes of cotton and all kinds of plastics. Nowadays it's mainly used for (old fashioned) raincoats and not made of wool anymore. I would check if there is still wool in this gabardine you have. > > >As it turns, I was intending to make some capes and trews from it and > > >wanted a heavier weight. Capes or mantles would still be a good idea, but you'll have to line them, else they are not heavy enough. A mantle should 'hang', not flutter about. > I think that wools weren't commonly heavily fulled till the 14th C -- Fulling was already done in Roman times by treading in large tubs, but was abandoned when the Romans left Northern Europe. By the 10th c there were however already (or still) fulling mills in Italy and by the 11th c Flanders was already exporting broadcloths which were heavily fulled, napped and shorn woollen cloths. The fulling process included soaking in an alkaline fluid which could be stale urine or fuller's earth, whichever was easier to aquire. Generally worsted, which has been woven during the whole medieval period, was not fulled, or otherwise finished (except for calandering in the 15th c which gave it an extra shine) and therefore cheaper than broadcloth. It was used for bedhangings, wallhangings, coverlets and cushion covers, summer clothing, f.i. light doublets, hose (for the elasticity) and also for linings of garments made from broadcloth. It was especially used by the crusaders in Cyprus and the Holy Land during the late 12th and 13th c and by monks for their summer habits. > properly felt was made from unspun wool. A lot of felt was made from bowed or carded wool of the areas with shorter hairs which were hard to comb and from the shorter haired fells of goats and of cotton. Most of these facts are to be found in the MOL book Textiles and Clothing which has pictures of worsted dating back to the 11-12th c. The name was even derived from a Norfolk village called Worstead, where there were famous weavers producing this cloth since the late 13th c. I added parts of my own research and other sources I have in my library. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 15:38:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02867 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:38:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09604; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:55:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16029 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:52:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16021 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.144] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11RiVf-0005DO-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:52:03 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 13:47:43 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: pronunciation In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19990916134005.00973b90@rrnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 01:41 PM 09/16/1999 -0500, you wrote: -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" Herjolfsnes >hair yolf (rhymes with golf) ness Just like it's spelled! Kim (whose grandparents were mostly >Norwegian) If an English-speaking person recalls that in Germanic languages 'j' = 'y', that is. :-) Thank you for the correction, and thank you, too, to Marc. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 15:48:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02892 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:48:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10801; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:03:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA18162 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:00:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18141 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:00:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FI6003DD7NYA8@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:59:58 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:08:16 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoe terminology; wasCanadian Iceman update OT In-reply-to: <199909162000.OAA03485@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990916160816.007b1510@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson <"LDMundy" > >Marc, Thank you for a very for a wonderful description... Thank you. >quite often. Although there are some slight regional variations, I believe, >and I have not made any particular study of it as you have. A typical >problem is explaining that (eg)--- "making " does not mean all of the >manufacture but only the bringing together of the 'closed' upper with the >bottom parts; "Bottoming" is what is done afterwards; -Parts for uppers are >"clicked" but parts of bottoms are " cut"---and all this before we get into >deeper things; I believe that these are correct, yes. And there are definately differences based on region and basic tradition (Traditional cowboy boot makers, for example, have some terms that are unique). >I can only demonstrate a "turn-welt" I cannot do it in words even with a lot of >arm waving. Simple :) It's turned sewn-round work with a welt sewn as a bead in the inseam to which an outsole has been stitched. >I can live with most of it although I do get a little perplexed with people >who insist on calling a multi-armed iron cobbler's "hob" ; a "last" >While I have an expert to ask. There is something that I have always wanted >to confirm... I'm definately NOT an expert on this :) And I'm afraid this is just a little out of my period. I will forward the question to the Crispin Coliquy though (at http://www.bootmaker.com/discus/ ), and ask them. There are some serious experts there. >Anyway it's heart warming to know that there is another shoe person on the >list. I agree. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 15:50:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02901 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:50:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11175; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:06:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19078 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:03:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19072 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:03:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.144] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Rigv-0006aE-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:03:41 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:01:33 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: WAS: Re: H-COST: Onion skins NOW: Walnuts In-Reply-To: References: <199909152009.QAA25945@williams.tricreations.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 08:33 PM 09/16/1999 +0100, you wrote: -Poster: Jean Waddie >Wow! So the fairy tales about people disguising themselves by dyeing >their skin with walnut juice are true? It's very difficult to get even coverage--one's skin absorbs differently in different places. Yes, I tried it where it wouldn't show when I was a 'kid'...with my grandmother's permission [she raised me & having raised 4 knew when to give ltd. permission to avert disaster :-) ]. >Unfortunately I don't know anyone with a garden, never mind one with a >walnut tree (do they grow in Scotland?) This would be a great colour to >do naturally. Jean I used to help pick walnuts with my grandmother. Gloves are a necessity, if one does not wish one's hands to elbows to end up that color for a looooong time. :-) I have not tried dying cloth with walnut hulls, but I would go with Black Walnuts, rather than English Walnuts, I think. Anyone have real experience with both to share? -- Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 15:54:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02905 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:54:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11492; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:09:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19694 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:06:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from onelist.com (www.onelist.com [209.207.164.217]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA19683 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:06:23 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:06:23 -0600 (MDT) From: madly@2xtreme.net Message-Id: <199909162106.PAA19683@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 30717 invoked by uid 99); 16 Sep 1999 21:05:40 -0000 Subject: H-COST: Invitation to join menscostumes@onelist.com Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: madly@2xtreme.net Hello, I would like to invite you to join the menscostumes community. The description of this community is: The list is dedicated to the discussion of men’s costuming. Be it SCA, Civil War, Ren Faire, Science Fiction, any and all are welcome. This is NOT a “Boys Only Club” you do not have to be male to be on his list, BUT the focus of the list is men’s costuming. You can join this community by going to the following web page: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/menscostumes Or you can join by sending email to the following address: mailto:menscostumes-subscribe@onelist.com If you do not wish to join this community, please ignore this message. Thanks, madly@2xtreme.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 16:05:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02928 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:05:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12785; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:20:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA22350 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:17:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22340 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:17:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (d-ma-superpop-21.ici.net [207.180.40.21]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA27484 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:16:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909162116.RAA27484@bajor.ici.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Dimensions for Hedeby Dress Fragment? Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:17:02 -0400 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id PAA22344 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Irene leNoir Judy Mitchell wrote: >I can give you an idea of how I make this apron Well, I appreciate the effort you put into explaining your method. However, I've already done some reading on this topic and I know how I plan to make my dress. Mistress Ellisif has a wonderful article she wrote on a different reconstruction of the dress. In her method, you make the dress with pieces that do have that angled flare seen in the fragment. And yes, she found a layout in which the pieces do dovetail together perfectly with absolutely no waste. (I will try to contact her for permission to share her article.) The reason I want the dimensions of the actual fragment is that I want to do a little number crunching and figure out how many panels made up the original dress. Marc wrote: >I've been trying to find my notes on Hedeby, but if >memory serves the length isn't a lot more than a foot-a >foot and a half long. It's not a big piece of fabric. Well, as I understand it, there is apparently obviously fabric missing in the length of that fragment. So the length is not really the dimension I was most interested in. Going back to my bad ACSII art: T ---------- | | | | S | | | | | \ H | \ | \ | \ | \ | \ | \ ----------------- B If someone has all four dimensions, that would be great. Otherwise, I'm most interested in T, and after that, S. Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 16:08:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02936 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:08:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13127; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:23:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23235 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:20:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23227 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:20:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA15702; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:20:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA23693; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:20:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:20:42 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com cc: SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU Subject: H-COST: Online Smock/T-tunic pattern generator Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed OK, it's finally finished: I've created a web-based Elizabethan Smock pattern generator, and instructions on sewing it together. You input your measurements, and it generates customized instructions and to-scale pictures of the pattern pieces. It also calculates how much fabric you'll need, and shows a diagram of the most economical way to lay the pieces out. It also works for T-Tunics. It's at: http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/smockpat/ It works well for me, but I'm only one set of measurements :) Please, try it out if you're interested--and let me know how it works for you. Enjoy! Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 16:11:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02942 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:11:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13424; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:25:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23752 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:22:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23742 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:22:51 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6DVNCxVfo_ (4362) for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:22:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:22:04 EDT Subject: Re: WAS: Re: H-COST: Onion skins NOW: Walnuts To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Black walnuts are one of the few natural direct dyes for cotton (that is, no mordant required.) Any book on natural dyeing should give you directions. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 16:59:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03000 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:59:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19721; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:14:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05557 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:11:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA05551 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:11:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 6110 invoked by alias); 16 Sep 1999 22:11:07 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 6104 invoked by uid 0); 16 Sep 1999 22:11:07 -0000 Received: from bdsl41.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.41) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 22:11:07 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990916164252.00976250@rrnet.com> X-Sender: baird@rrnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:11:06 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Subject: H-COST: wrapper question Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_13167978==_.ALT" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" --=====================_13167978==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed I found an interesting reference in Calico Chronicle by Betty J. Mills, Texas Tech Press, 1985. quote: At Home Wear--the Wrapper Carrying the distinction of frontier dress almost as marked as the bonnet and apron was the wrapper. It was a garment repeatedly in evidence, with written and pictorial records of its popularity. Mention was made as early as 1830 in a newcomer's letter of "neighbor ladies dressed in neat wrappers" who came to call. end quote The quote is from A New History of Texas, by A. J. H. Pennybacker, privately printed Another reference is one of my favorites. It is from The Checkered Years A Bonanza Farm Diary 1884-1888, Mary Dodge Woodward, Minnesota Historical Society Press, St. Paul, 1989. quote: I have cut out the dress which Nellie sent me so as to finish it before Daniel arrives. Were I further west, I should not dare to make it "Mother Hubbard" as the paper says that in Pendleton, Oregon, that type of costume is prohibited unless worn belted. Bills to that effect have been posted in the town, ladies who violate the ordinance being fined heavily. The alleged reason is that such garments "scare horses, cause accidents and ruin business." end quote The Checkered Years is an actual diary written by Mary, published years later by her granddaughter. So based on these 2 references, wrappers were worn in public at least sometimes. Kim --=====================_13167978==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" I found an interesting reference in Calico Chronicle by Betty J. Mills, Texas Tech Press, 1985.

quote:

At Home Wear--the Wrapper
Carrying the distinction of frontier dress almost as marked as the bonnet and apron was the wrapper. It was a garment repeatedly in evidence, with written and pictorial records of its popularity. Mention was made as early as 1830 in a newcomer's letter of "neighbor ladies dressed in neat wrappers" who came to call.

end quote

The quote is from A New History of Texas, by A. J. H. Pennybacker, privately printed



Another reference is one of my favorites. It is from The Checkered Years A Bonanza Farm Diary 1884-1888, Mary Dodge Woodward, Minnesota Historical Society Press, St. Paul, 1989.
quote:
I have cut out the dress which Nellie sent me so as to finish it before Daniel arrives. Were I further west, I should not dare to make it "Mother Hubbard" as the paper says that in Pendleton, Oregon, that type of costume is prohibited unless worn belted. Bills to that effect have been posted in the town, ladies who violate the ordinance being fined heavily. The alleged reason is that such garments "scare horses, cause accidents and ruin business."
end quote
The Checkered Years is an actual diary written by Mary, published years later by her granddaughter.


So based on these 2 references, wrappers were worn in public at least sometimes.

Kim
--=====================_13167978==_.ALT-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 17:29:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03043 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:29:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24007; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:44:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA12181 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:40:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alpha.vaxxine.com (alpha.vaxxine.com [209.5.212.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12169 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:40:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vaxxine.com (ppp21.analg-t3.st-cath.niagara.net [209.5.212.119]) by alpha.vaxxine.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA19293 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:40:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37C8A001.5BAE0194@vaxxine.com> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 21:50:42 -0500 From: Sheridan Alder X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Thanks for Canadian Iceman update References: <0FI500H03YGW08@vega.utulsa.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sheridan Alder Hello members: Thanks so much for the updates on the Canadian iceman story. If I had chosen to do some searching (and me a librarian, tsk, tsk!) instead of grumbling about the iniquities of the media, I suppose I could have had some information that much quicker, but it wouldn't have been nearly as enjoyable as your courteous and intelligent responses! I'm not just sucking up - it's been one of those weeks at work after which any pleasant human interaction is a breath of fresh air! Sheridan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 17:30:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03050 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:30:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24063; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:44:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA12281 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:41:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA12264 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:41:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-69-161.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.69.161]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10698 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:41:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E10B5C.EE966463@pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 15:23:13 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Hand vs. Machine Sewing References: <44909FB17F9@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, I had mentioned: >> (I figured out how to sew and turn a bag lined cotehardie without >> any hand sewing this way.) Teddy inquired: > Ok, so share with the rest of us... if it's something you can explain by > email. If it isn't I shall just have to be disappointed (an maybe I'll > sulk....) I'll try, but please don't hate me if it doesn't work. :-} The cotehardie had a half length oversleeve with tippet attached. Rather than making two separate garments, I faked in the undersleeve. I attached the undersleeve to the lining and the oversleeve to the outer fabric. Taking the two halves right sides together, I sewed them together around the bottom hem, up one side of the placket, around the collar, and down the other side of the placket, finishing along the bottom hem in one continuous seam. To turn them, I inverted the entire thing out of the short oversleeve. This is the tricky part, and it sometimes looks like a Möbius cotehardie. But, with patience, it can be done. (Note: it worked because it was a men's cotehardie that opened all the way down the front, and the two separate sleeves were not sewn together.) If you are unsure if it will work, try doing a miniature mock up of the garment. I haven't figured out how to do it with a single sleeve once the cuff seam is finished (or a jerkin once the armscye seam is finished), but I'm working on it. ;-) Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 17:38:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03086 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:38:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25246; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA14308 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:49:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gti.net (apollo.gti.net [199.171.27.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14288 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:49:52 -0600 (MDT) From: martyr@gti.net Received: from gti.net ([208.216.122.96]) by gti.net (8.9.3/8.8.8) with ESMTP id SAA09400 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:49:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37E173E4.A0B594C6@gti.net> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:49:09 -0400 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Les Incroyables et Mervilleuses References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: martyr@gti.net Annora- > I would try looking in: 1) the Kyoto Costume Institute's "Revolution in > Fashion-1715-1815" 2) LACMA's "An Elegant Art" & 3) Wilcox's, "Mode in > Costume." Also, there might be something in one of the Arnold "Patterns of > Fashion" books but I can't remember if she did one for mens' 18th c. There was > something about Incroyables/Mervilleusses in my college fashion history > textbook but I can't remember the name-I believe it was something like A Survey > of Historic Fashion or Costume. The word Survey was definitely in the title. Good Luck! ~Deb Rand _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 17:39:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03096 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:39:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25365; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:53:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA14482 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:50:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14472 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:50:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem69.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.69] helo=herimats) by mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11RkMP-0005vR-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:50:38 +0100 Message-ID: <004d01bf0095$e8c03160$45065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:47:17 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" I didnt mean to put him off sorry. If you are just collecting the skins; you wont have lots of peeled onions about so the smell ;I was concerned aboy should not be so bad. Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters ----- Original Message ----- From: Jean Waddie To: Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 8:46 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins > > -Poster: Jean Waddie > > Thank you all for your helpful tips. After Dave's post I thought I > would just give up - let him get discouraged slowly. But I will show > him all your information, throw out the skins we have and make friendly > with the local greengrocer when the DH gets round to actually wanting to > do the dyeing. And maybe I can find an event where he can be an > interesting bit of living history and do his dyeing _outside_, and near > someone else's neighbours. (We live in a flat with a shared drying green > - might not be popular making smells there) > > Thank you all > > Jean > > > > > > In message , Jean Waddie > writes > > > >-Poster: Jean Waddie > > > >Hello all. I'm not even going to think about telling you how little > >sewing I actually do - can we make that hours per year, rather than per > >week? > > > >Anyway, my DH has decided he's going to Hastings 2000, and wants to > >natural-dye some of his kit with onion skins. He's started collecting > >them in an airtight biscuit tin, but my worry is that they will go > >mouldy before he has enough to do anything with. Can anyone reassure > >me, or tell me the tricks to make sure they don't turn into something > >oozy and disgusting that tries to take over the kitchen? > > > >I wouldn't want to discourage him, since it's the first time he's ever > >started making something more than two weeks before the event :-) > > > >Jean > > -- > Jean Waddie > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 17:55:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03138 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:55:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27099; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:10:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17791 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:07:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17781 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:07:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem106.barney.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.106] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11RkcV-0004Cf-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:07:15 +0100 Message-ID: <000201bf0098$3b6ad7b0$6a075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <3.0.6.32.19990916160816.007b1510@pop.utulsa.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: Shoe terminology; wasCanadian Iceman update OT Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:05:26 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Marc, Thanks yet again for the following knowledge , you have led me to yet another spiritual home on the 'net. Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters > -Poster: Marc Carlson > > little out > of my period. I will forward the question to the Crispin Coliquy though > (at http://www.bootmaker.com/discus/ ), and ask them. There are some serious > experts there. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 17:58:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03146 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:58:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27387; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:13:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18354 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:10:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18323 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.62] (ell210.acadia.net [205.217.210.66]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA07651 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:18:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:08:34 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: walnuts Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) << I have not tried dying cloth with walnut hulls, but I would go with Black Walnuts, rather than English Walnuts, I think. Anyone have real experience with both to share>> Mentioned before : check Rita Buchanan's A Weaver's Garden (published about 1988 by Interweave Press). She's done a lot of dyeing with walnuts, and covers it in books (she also discussed it in articles in Spin Off magazine, if you have access to back issues.) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 18:00:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03152 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:00:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27591; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:15:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18658 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:11:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com (ms3.phoenix.com [134.122.1.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA18645 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:11:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:17:11 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Les Incroyables et Mervilleuses Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:10:40 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bf0098$b47a82e0$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" >For some reason, not sure which, I'm stuck on the idea of making a stylized/exaggerated overcoat with big cuffs and lapels. This somehow led to Les Incroyables -- an extreme style of dress that appeared in France somewhere around the French Revolution. I'm looking for information on said fad. I've checked Davenport & Boucher (they were still out from the last project) and found nothing. Does anyone know of a source that has more than a single drawing or sentence about them? Oh, a favorite of mine! (to look at not to wear) There's not much around. It was faddish, after all. I have an 1802 Italian fashion plate labeled (in Italian) "French Fashion on my dining room wall. Imagine the usual "grecian" white gown of the Mme Recamier sort with drawstring to fit the decolletage. In this fashion plate, Madame gazes demurely up and away from the viewer. The viewer is treated to a neckline featuring "cherries out of season". Her fashionably long, long scarf trails the ground. With so exposed a bosom, this is not fall/winter wear. Ah, but you were looking for wide lapeled coats. 2 museum catalogs to search for: Modes et Revolutions (The Louvre? Galerie Layfayette?) and Revolution in Fashion (Kyoto Museum of Fashion). Both of these came out about the time of the French Bicentennial in 1989. Bon chance! --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 18:16:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA03222 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:16:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29179; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:31:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA21635 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:28:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout4.whowhere.com (mc-qout4.whowhere.com [209.185.123.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA21623 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by hotbot.com; Thu Sep 16 16:27:25 1999 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:27:25 -0700 From: " Firefly" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Expiredinmiddle: true X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: H-COST: Re: zoot suit (long) X-Sender-Ip: 205.188.198.189 Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: " Firefly" I'm a bit delayed plowing through my email, but I thought I might add a few personal experiences on my own experience developing a zoot suit pattern. We do a lot of swing dancing, so I went straight to the folks who seemed to have the best outfits and I started asking them to let me look at their outfits. The best ones are made by a firm in Fullerton, California called El Pachuco. There are other companies also making zoots, but most of these are just large suits scaled down to smaller sizes--they lose the great fit of the true tailored thing. You can really tell the difference between the ones that really are properly patterned and tailored and the cheap knock-offs. Incidently, El Pachuco has a website at www.elpachuco.com. It's a good place for research into the "look". Another inspiring site is: http://www.smithsonianmag.si.edu/smithsonian/issues99/mar99/swing.html A few points about the better zoot suits. They tend to be made from very lightweight gab, have lots of interfacing and the elements of finishing seen in better tailoring (yeah--can't get past this). The true defining characteristic seems to be princess seams in the front (always) and often in the back as well. These suits were apparently designed to show off that a guy has a really good chest (recall, the first to wear these were tough gang members who often were also draft resisters during early WWII). This styling detail also makes it a great style for women, since it shows the curviness of a female figure. I finally hit the local fab store in search for an alterable pattern. The closest I could find was Neue Mode V 22178. You may have to search for this pattern company, but I do know you can telephone order it from G Street Fabrics (www.gstreetfabrics.com). It really is the only pattern I could find with the right cut to get the zoot look. Now mind you, the pattern itself looks like a really goofy waiter-looking jacket. But it does have the key styling details required for a zoot suit (and a really funky two-tone lapel option I may try to play with in when I make this up again). To adapt it, you will have to extend the jacket pattern to make it longer, so it reaches mid-thigh. I also widened the lapels as well (don't forget to also extend the facing accordingly as well. Oh! And don't forget the two-tone shoes! Now, one warning if you decide to go down this path as well: it's not a good choice for a first attempt at making a suit! The instructions are in barely intelligible translated german--so caveat sewer! Another thing--I used a vintage pants pattern for the slacks--so I don't have any helpful hints for the slacks except to make them as high cut (on the chest) as you dare and don't forget: wide legs, pleats, button fly and buttons for your braces are must-haves! One final historic note...I've taken a couple of Frankie Manning workshops (Frankie was one of the first swing dancers and is credited for inventing aerial moves so closely associated with the dance) and got the opportunity to ask him last year whether zoots were really popular back in the golden days of swing dancing at the Savoy. He said that there was a short time at the beginning of WWII when they were popular in Harlem, but mostly it was more popular with Latinos. He said Cab Calloway would wear zoots, but not all the time. Frankie said that back then he had one zoot jacket, in black (he said the wild colors of today's suits weren't really seen on the street), but most of the time, he wore a regular suit. Okay--I'm off to sew! Mary --- Visit my homepage: http://pages.hotbot.com/travel/fire.fly HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 19:00:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03400 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:00:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04182; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:14:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA28949 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:10:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28924 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:09:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.140] (sdts11-140.znet.net [207.167.66.140]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id RAA01036 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:09:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909162106.PAA19683@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 16:57:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: H-COST: OT: Getting Pine Pitch Out Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams Help! My son just sat on a pine tree this afternoon that was covered with pitch. He now has it smeared all over the bottom of his polyester shorts. Any ideas on the best way to remove it? Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 19:06:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03415 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:06:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04888; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:20:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29976 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:16:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29970 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:16:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.167] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Rlh5-0006AX-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:16:04 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:13:47 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Getting Pine Pitch Out In-Reply-To: References: <199909162106.PAA19683@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 04:57 PM 09/16/1999 -0800, you wrote: > >-Poster: Julie Adams > > >Help! My son just sat on a pine tree this afternoon that was covered with >pitch. He now has it smeared all over the bottom of his polyester shorts. >Any ideas on the best way to remove it? > >Julie Adams I think I recall my grandma using turpentine--but that was before polyester...I'd hesitate to advise you to use it, not knowing whether the turpentine might dissolve or otherwise affect the poly. Anyone else? Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 19:16:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03437 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:15:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06358; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:30:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01895 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:27:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from superman.imag.net (superman.imag.net [207.200.148.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01879 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:27:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from van1282 (van-port104.imag.net [204.244.111.104]) by superman.imag.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA26913 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <038e01bf00a3$90c0ffe0$03000004@van1282> From: "The Rogue" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Gore or panel?? Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:28:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "The Rogue" Thank you! Suddenly it became much easier to understand what goes on in patterns and descriptions of historic clothing (modern too). I used to think these were all interchangeable terms . . . you can imagine how many times I've re-cut and refitted things. This is a BIG help. Zelda -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Virtue To: h-costume@indra.com Date: September 16, 1999 5:51 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Gore or panel?? > >-Poster: Cynthia Virtue > >And there's also "godet" which seems to be identical to "gore" -- a >triangle, and "gusset" which differs from those by being sewn all the >way around, such as putting extra fabric at the underarm. > >Michelle wrote: > >> Usually, a gore is triangular in shape and a panel is rectangle. >> Example for a skirt or dress: A gore would be used to widen the bottom >> half. A panel would be used to widen the whole thing fairly evenly. >-- >It's nearly time for October Fools' Day -- the Southern Hemisphere >version of April Fools' Day. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 19:40:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03486 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:40:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09417; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:55:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA05589 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:52:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05578 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:52:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k592.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.192]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id RAA21146 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:51:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E18FDC.659E@netwiz.net> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 17:48:28 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Rare relics record history of Silk Road] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi This was posted on the Silk Road list (information about subscribing at the bottom) It's from the China Daily > Rare relics record history of Silk Road > > URUMQI (Xinhua) — A garment made of fabrics with dazzling gold foil sewn on > applique work, dating back to the Western Han Dynasty (206 BC - AD 24), was > recently unearthed from a tomb in Lop Nur, a desolate area in Northwest > China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. > > Chinese archaeologists believe this is the earliest woven material with gold > patterns ever found in China. > > The discovery pushes the history of fabric-making with gold back 1,000 years > earlier than previously believed,” said Li Wenying, an archaeologist > participating in the excavation. > > The gold foils were sewn by two different methods. One was to cut coloured > silk in the shape of flower buds, petals, stamen and fruits, which were then > pinned to the collar, sleeves, lower hem, and back of the garment. Then gold > foils were pasted on the silk designs. The other way was to spread gold > powder onto the design. > > One archaeologist, Zhou Jinling, described the embroidery as distinctive, > dazzling and harmonious in colour.” > > This garment was one of the 200-plus rare cultural relics unearthed from 32 > tombs built in the period between the Han and Jin dynasties (206 BC- AD 420) > at the Yingpan Ruins in Lop Nur. > > The site lies 200 kilometres east of Loulan, one of the busiest commercial > cities on the ancient Silk Road which served as a transportation artery for > the flow of goods from China to the West more than 2,000 years ago. The > flourishing trade route began to decline in the fourth century. > > The recent excavation, which lasted for more than a month, was the > continuation of a protective excavation begun in 1995. During the three-year > period, Chinese archaeologists opened 32 ancient tombs and cleared more than > 100 robbed tombs over a large area. > > One-third of the unearthed objects were burial accessories, including > garments, wooden, bronze, and lacquer wares, gold and silver ornaments, and > pearls. > > The most significant finding was three woolen robes with designs of flying > men, eagles, and snakes woven with a jacquard technique. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Date: 05/17/99 > Author: > Copyright© by China Daily > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > TO POST ON THE SILKROAD-L LIST > Send your message to silkroad-l@list-server.net > ----------------------------------------------- > TO SUBSCRIBE OR UNSUBSCRIBE > Send to: silkroad-l-request@list-server.net > Message: subscribe or unsubscribe > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 19:45:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03493 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:45:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09838; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:59:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA06248 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:56:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from jefferson.patriot.net (IDENT:root@jefferson.patriot.net [209.249.176.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06233 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:56:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [216.200.103.219] (th-1-25.patriot.net [216.200.103.219] (may be forged)) by jefferson.patriot.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA17217 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:56:26 -0400 Message-Id: <199909170056.UAA17217@jefferson.patriot.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Les Incroyables et Mervilleuses Date: Thu, 16 Sep 99 20:58:41 -0000 x-sender: aquazoo@mail.patriot.net x-mailer: Claris Emailer 1.1 From: To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cindy Abel wrote, >It started with the trial and execution of Louis XVI in early 1793 >and ended with the arrest and guillotining of Robespierre and his >party in (I think) July, 1794.). Many of the illustrations I saw were dated 1797. Maybe a case of the documentation of the fashion coming after the fact? _The Cut of Men's Clothes_ has some illustrations, as well as some pattern drafts that are useful. I had a lovely brown & blue wide-stripe silk that finally became an Incroyable coat in (oddly enough) 1997. My husband made the little slouchy boots to go with the outfit. He also got his hair cut appropriately and I curled it with a curling iron. Great fun! Jen, if you'd like to see a jpeg let me know! -Carol Kocian _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 19:48:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03498 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:48:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10250; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:03:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06865 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:00:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06857 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:00:32 -0600 (MDT) From: Dustins6@aol.com Received: from Dustins6@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6WFUa11893 (4220) for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:59:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:59:56 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Getting Pine Pitch Out To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dustins6@aol.com In a message dated 9/16/99 8:13:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, savaskan@sd.znet.com writes: << Help! My son just sat on a pine tree this afternoon that was covered with pitch. He now has it smeared all over the bottom of his polyester shorts. Any ideas on the best way to remove it? >> I don't know about it's effect on polyester, but when my kids get into our pine trees, I've always used good old rubbing alcohol to get it off of their skin and it works like a charm. ( Whoa, talk about a run on sentence ) Hope _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 20:04:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03520 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:04:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11743; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:19:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA09108 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:15:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09102 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:15:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.27 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:14:26 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Les Incroyables et Mervilleuses Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:23:34 -0400 Message-ID: <001101bf00ab$6d75af60$7e0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-reply-to: <000001bf0098$b47a82e0$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Those wide lapelled coats were called redingotes, and worn by men as well as women. They were mainstream weather coats, although the Incroyables certainly would have made theirs with higher collars, wider cuffs, etc. R. L. Shep's annotated version of the Countess of Wilton's 1846 The Book of Costume or Annal of Fashion quotes the memoirs of Madame Junot (1784-1838), the Duchess of d'Abrantes, as followes: The *Muscadens* "portaient des redingotes grises, avec des collets noirs, des cravates vertes; et leurs cheveux, au lieu d'etre a la Titus, comme ceux de la Plupart des jeunes gens, etaient nattes, poudres, et releves, avec un peigne, tandis que de chaque cote de la figure, descendait use longue face appelee, en style du temps, *oreilles de chien.*" R. L. Shep's note defines Muscadens as "literally, musk-comfits; applied perjoratively after 1794 in Parisian slang to a type of perfumed fop, dandy, or exquisite of the upper middle class." Madame Junot was born Laure Permon; she was wife of the French ambassador to Portugual, and she wrote *Souvenirs Historiques sur Napolean, la Revolution, le Directoire, l'Empire et la Restauration.* Her detailed descriptive account of her own wedding trousseau quoted on pages 252-254 in The Book of Costume is well worth reading as an inspirational resource. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Cynthia Barnes > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 7:11 PM > To: H-Costume (E-mail) > Subject: H-COST: Les Incroyables et Mervilleuses > > > > -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" > > > >For some reason, not sure which, I'm stuck on the idea of making a > stylized/exaggerated overcoat with big cuffs and lapels. > This somehow led > to > Les Incroyables -- an extreme style of dress that appeared in France > somewhere around the French Revolution. I'm looking for > information on said > fad. I've checked Davenport & Boucher (they were still out > from the last > project) and found nothing. Does anyone know of a source > that has more than > a single drawing or sentence about them? > > Oh, a favorite of mine! (to look at not to wear) There's not > much around. > It was faddish, after all. I have an 1802 Italian fashion > plate labeled (in > Italian) "French Fashion on my dining room wall. Imagine the usual > "grecian" white gown of the Mme Recamier sort with drawstring > to fit the > decolletage. > > In this fashion plate, Madame gazes demurely up and away from > the viewer. > The viewer is treated to a neckline featuring "cherries out > of season". Her > fashionably long, long scarf trails the ground. > > With so exposed a bosom, this is not fall/winter wear. > > Ah, but you were looking for wide lapeled coats. 2 museum catalogs to > search for: Modes et Revolutions (The Louvre? Galerie Layfayette?) and > Revolution in Fashion (Kyoto Museum of Fashion). Both of > these came out > about the time of the French Bicentennial in 1989. > > Bon chance! > --cin > Cynthia Barnes > 408.570.1023 > Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com > Phoenix Technologies > 411 E. Plumeria Dr. > San Jose CA 95134 > "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all > nervous and give > the wrong answers." > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 20:19:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03532 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 20:19:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13368; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:33:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA10942 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:28:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10930 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 19:28:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.27 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 18:27:19 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Les Incroyables et Mervilleuses Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:37:13 -0400 Message-ID: <001201bf00ad$39448fc0$7e0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-reply-to: <001101bf00ab$6d75af60$7e0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" A good resourse for the period is also by RLShep, Federalist and Recengy Costume: 1790-1819, including a transcription of the oldest tailoring book in the English language, The Tailor's Complete Guide, published in London in 1796, fashion news, descriptions, and plates from the 1796 The Lady's Magazine and more, ISBN# 0-914046-25-x. Available form www.rlshep.com? Not sure. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Hope H. Dunlap > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 9:24 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: RE: H-COST: Les Incroyables et Mervilleuses > > > > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > Those wide lapelled coats were called redingotes, and worn > by men as well as women. They were mainstream weather > coats, although the Incroyables certainly would have made > theirs with higher collars, wider cuffs, etc. > > R. L. Shep's annotated version of the Countess of Wilton's > 1846 The Book of Costume or Annal of Fashion quotes the > memoirs of Madame Junot (1784-1838), the Duchess of > d'Abrantes, as followes: The *Muscadens* "portaient des > redingotes grises, avec des collets noirs, des cravates > vertes; et leurs cheveux, au lieu d'etre a la Titus, comme > ceux de la Plupart des jeunes gens, etaient nattes, poudres, > et releves, avec un peigne, tandis que de chaque cote de la > figure, descendait use longue face appelee, en style du > temps, *oreilles de chien.*" > > R. L. Shep's note defines Muscadens as "literally, > musk-comfits; applied perjoratively after 1794 in Parisian > slang to a type of perfumed fop, dandy, or exquisite of the > upper middle class." Madame Junot was born Laure Permon; > she was wife of the French ambassador to Portugual, and she > wrote *Souvenirs Historiques sur Napolean, la Revolution, le > Directoire, l'Empire et la Restauration.* Her detailed > descriptive account of her own wedding trousseau quoted on > pages 252-254 in The Book of Costume is well worth reading > as an inspirational resource. > > Hope H. Dunlap > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com > [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of Cynthia Barnes > > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 7:11 PM > > To: H-Costume (E-mail) > > Subject: H-COST: Les Incroyables et Mervilleuses > > > > > > > > -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" > > > > > > >For some reason, not sure which, I'm stuck on the idea of > making a > > stylized/exaggerated overcoat with big cuffs and lapels. > > This somehow led > > to > > Les Incroyables -- an extreme style of dress that appeared > in France > > somewhere around the French Revolution. I'm looking for > > information on said > > fad. I've checked Davenport & Boucher (they were still > out > > from the last > > project) and found nothing. Does anyone know of a source > > that has more than > > a single drawing or sentence about them? > > > > Oh, a favorite of mine! (to look at not to wear) There's > not > > much around. > > It was faddish, after all. I have an 1802 Italian fashion > > plate labeled (in > > Italian) "French Fashion on my dining room wall. Imagine > the usual > > "grecian" white gown of the Mme Recamier sort with > drawstring > > to fit the > > decolletage. > > > > In this fashion plate, Madame gazes demurely up and away > from > > the viewer. > > The viewer is treated to a neckline featuring "cherries > out > > of season". Her > > fashionably long, long scarf trails the ground. > > > > With so exposed a bosom, this is not fall/winter wear. > > > > Ah, but you were looking for wide lapeled coats. 2 museum > catalogs to > > search for: Modes et Revolutions (The Louvre? Galerie > Layfayette?) and > > Revolution in Fashion (Kyoto Museum of Fashion). Both of > > these came out > > about the time of the French Bicentennial in 1989. > > > > Bon chance! > > --cin > > Cynthia Barnes > > 408.570.1023 > > Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com > > Phoenix Technologies > > 411 E. Plumeria Dr. > > San Jose CA 95134 > > "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all > > nervous and give > > the wrong answers." > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ > _____ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 22:17:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03667 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:17:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23628; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:31:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26774 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:25:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA26745 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:25:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909170325.VAA26745@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 32088 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 21:25:02 -0600 Received: from ts26-07.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.121) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 21:25:02 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Online Smock/T-tunic pattern generator Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:32:31 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" Drea, Worked great for me. My friend Drea, amazing, isn't she? Kathlene ---------- > From: aleed > To: h-costume@indra.com > Cc: SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU > Subject: H-COST: Online Smock/T-tunic pattern generator > Date: Thursday, September 16, 1999 3:20 PM > > > -Poster: aleed > > > OK, it's finally finished: I've created a web-based Elizabethan Smock > pattern generator, and instructions on sewing it together. You input your > measurements, and it generates customized instructions and to-scale > pictures of the pattern pieces. It also calculates how much fabric > you'll need, and shows a diagram of the most economical way to lay the > pieces out. It also works for T-Tunics. It's at: > > http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/smockpat/ > > It works well for me, but I'm only one set of measurements :) Please, > try it out if you're interested--and let me know how it works for you. > > Enjoy! > > Drea > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 22:30:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03679 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:30:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24791; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:46:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA29129 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:41:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA29119 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:41:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909170341.VAA29119@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 4902 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 21:41:23 -0600 Received: from ts16-31.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.9.87) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 21:41:23 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: H-COST: Oh rats! Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:48:50 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" Ok, I have patiently saved my hair and have managed to fill a knee high stocking with it, all with the intention of making a 'rat'. So, now what do I do? There must be a better container to put it in. The hair sticks out every which way from the stocking. What type of fabric is recommended and what is the best shape to use? Anyone out there with some good ideas? Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 22:33:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03683 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:33:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24987; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:48:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA29463 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:44:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29457 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:44:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-37.radiks.net [206.29.243.39]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA27703 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:42:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990916224026.0075e950@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:40:26 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: pitch removal In-Reply-To: <199909170052.SAA05620@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger >Help! My son just sat on a pine tree this afternoon that was covered with >pitch. He now has it smeared all over the bottom of his polyester shorts. >Any ideas on the best way to remove it? > Goo Gone is your friend! I haven't found any plastic that it damages, and it removes all kinds of sticky things - gum, label adhesive, etc. Obviously, try on inconspicuous area first. You can find it in many grocery, hardware, and discount stores with the other household chemicals. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 22:47:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03693 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:47:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27265; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:03:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA01467 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:58:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA01459 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:58:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909170358.VAA01459@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 10275 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 21:58:26 -0600 Received: from ts25-09.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.11.24) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 21:58:26 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: H-COST: Ever After Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:05:54 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" I am finally able to sit down and get all my questions out tonight!!! Now, I realize that when the movie Ever After came out, there was probably several lively discussions regarding the costuming. But what I am wondering is, remember the scene when 'Cinderella' is swimming? She is wearing what looks like a stiffened under-bodice (?). Is this a period garment? I have made 2 Italian Ren dresses. The first was a very loose fitted bodice, side opening, square necked, dress, taken off a modern jumper. The second one is a little tighter bodice, back opening with a round neck. My problem is, that being a ample women, of an age, the tightness in the bodice just flattens out my bustline downward. And no amount of pulling up and bending over will help. When I saw this under-bodice (?), I thought, now that might work to keep my bust up, and even out the line down over the diaphragm, so to lessen the 'pregnant' appearance. I guess that even if it is not a period underpinning, I will probably try making one just to see if it gives me the right silhouette. But I would appreciate any input. Thank you, Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 22:50:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03699 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:50:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27490; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:04:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01680 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:00:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA01670 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:59:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909170359.VAA01670@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 10742 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 21:59:57 -0600 Received: from ts25-09.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.11.24) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 21:59:57 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: pitch removal Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:07:25 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" I have also seen Goo Gone at Cost Plus and Pier One. Great Stuff!!! Kathlene ---------- > From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger > To: h-costume-digest@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Re: pitch removal > Date: Thursday, September 16, 1999 9:40 PM > > > -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger > > >Help! My son just sat on a pine tree this afternoon that was covered with > >pitch. He now has it smeared all over the bottom of his polyester shorts. > >Any ideas on the best way to remove it? > > > Goo Gone is your friend! I haven't found any plastic that it damages, and > it removes all kinds of sticky things - gum, label adhesive, etc. > Obviously, try on inconspicuous area first. You can find it in many > grocery, hardware, and discount stores with the other household chemicals. > > Sandy > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 23:05:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03714 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:05:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29557; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:21:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA03878 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:16:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03873 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:16:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.net (CBL-ldpalmer.hs.earthlink.net [209.178.23.220]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20486 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E1C039.4AD4705F@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:14:50 -0700 From: Florence Palmer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Men's Costuming References: <199909161710.KAA24889@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Florence Palmer Ok so now what would you do when you ask your hubby what style or period of dress he would like you to make and he says I dont care. What would you do. My hubby is 5'8" his shoulders are aprox. 64 inches and his waist is 54 or so. What could I make him to make him 1. comfortable. and 2. period. Pleas any help would be appreciated. Maykn Crofte :o) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 23:25:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03757 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:25:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01065; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:42:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06409 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:37:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06403 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:37:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.146] (sdts11-146.znet.net [207.167.66.146]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id VAA14034 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:37:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990916224026.0075e950@radiks.net> References: <199909170052.SAA05620@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:32:30 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: pitch removal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams Thanks for all the ideas! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 23:32:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03763 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:32:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01584; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:48:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06988 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:42:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tx.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06977 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:42:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a ([24.4.53.172]) by news.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990917044238.HZNG5655.news.rdc1.tx.home.com@c59303a> for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:42:38 -0700 Message-ID: <010201bf00c8$666de300$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: References: <199909161710.KAA24889@zeus.directcon.net> <37E1C039.4AD4705F@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Men's Costuming Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:44:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" You make sure you make pants that they can go to the restroom easily and can cover ALL the leg. You make a tunic that feels like silk on his skin. Anything else that you make to go over that is up to your imagination and his favorite colors. Believe me so long as he likes the way it feels against his skin and lets him go do his business easily he will wear anything over it. :) Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide ----- Original Message ----- From: Florence Palmer To: Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 11:14 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Men's Costuming : : -Poster: Florence Palmer : : Ok so now what would you do when you ask your hubby what style or period of : dress he would like you to make and he says I dont care. What would you : do. My hubby is 5'8" his shoulders are aprox. 64 inches and his waist is 54 : or so. What could I make him to make him 1. comfortable. and 2. period. : : Pleas any help would be appreciated. : : Maykn Crofte : : :o) : : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 23:33:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03767 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:32:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01579; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:48:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06997 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:42:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tx.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06992 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:42:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a ([24.4.53.172]) by news.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990917044241.HZNQ5655.news.rdc1.tx.home.com@c59303a> for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:42:41 -0700 Message-ID: <010301bf00c8$685c4580$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: References: <199909170358.VAA01459@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Ever After Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:52:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" No answer just more questions. What was that leather tunic/jerkin the prince was wearing? My husband who rarely pipes up for me to make him something really nice really like this whole outfit. So here I am trying to find the period representations of the various pieces and cannot find anything! Help! At this point I am willing to go with original patterns that do not resemble anything strictly period to those lands. Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide ----- Original Message ----- From: K & J Hopkins To: Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 11:05 PM Subject: H-COST: Ever After _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 23:33:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03771 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:33:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01751; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:50:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA07394 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:45:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07389 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:45:27 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6PMI2LHt8_ (3982) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:44:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:44:50 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Men's Costuming To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 9/17/99 4:19:00 AM !!!First Boot!!!, FJPalmer@earthlink.net writes: << Ok so now what would you do when you ask your hubby what style or period of dress he would like you to make and he says I dont care. What would you do. My hubby is 5'8" his shoulders are aprox. 64 inches and his waist is 54 or so. What could I make him to make him 1. comfortable. and 2. period. Pleas any help would be appreciated. Maykn Crofte :o) >> I hope you are refering to SCA "period", because that is what i am going to attempt to suugest a solution for.... My first suggestion would have been Tudor, but I'm not sure how advanced a seamstress you are, and how well your husband would take to multi-layers. Since HVIII was such a large man as he got older...his fashions tend to flatter larger men. My second suggestion, and perhaps the better of the two: Houppelande!!!! It is a wonderfully great garmant and looks really well on larger men...especially if you make it no shorter than a bastard Houppelande. Chas _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 23:42:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03779 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:42:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02283; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:59:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA08547 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:54:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08540 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:54:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.163] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Rq2j-00001W-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:54:42 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 21:52:25 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Men's Costuming In-Reply-To: <37E1C039.4AD4705F@earthlink.net> References: <199909161710.KAA24889@zeus.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" First of all--WHAT period? Medieval? There are a lot of non-SCAdians on h-costume. :-) Well, what I might do, is find some illustrations of stuff I think would look really fine on him, and some that you know he wouldn't wear on a bet. Tell him you've found some and you'd like him to tell you what he thinks...and pray his taste agrees with yours. :-) Gentlemen of the list--is that a reasonable plan of action that might elicit the lady's spouse's choice of attire in a subtle way? Carol At 09:14 PM 09/16/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: Florence Palmer > >Ok so now what would you do when you ask your hubby what style or period of >dress he would like you to make and he says I dont care. What would you >do. My hubby is 5'8" his shoulders are aprox. 64 inches and his waist is 54 >or so. What could I make him to make him 1. comfortable. and 2. period. > >Pleas any help would be appreciated. > >Maykn Crofte > >:o) > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 16 23:53:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03785 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:53:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03076; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:09:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA09871 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:05:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bunyip.flash.net (bunyip.flash.net [209.30.6.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09865 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:05:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p23.amax1.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.64.23]) by bunyip.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA00403 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:04:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37E1CB96.B6CE22F2@flash.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:03:18 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: pronunciation References: <4.2.0.58.19990916134005.00973b90@rrnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette J,K,S&A Baird wrote: > Herjolfsnes > > hair yolf (rhymes with golf) ness > > Just like it's spelled! > > Kim (whose grandparents were mostly Norwegian) Are any of the syllables accented or stressed? --Charlene -- Eagles may soar, but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 00:00:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03791 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:00:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03498; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:17:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA10590 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:12:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chupacabras.flash.net (chupacabras.flash.net [209.30.6.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10583 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:12:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p23.amax1.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.64.23]) by chupacabras.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29910 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:12:32 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37E1CD5C.90C06D3B@flash.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:10:52 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Canadian Iceman update References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette Deborah Pulliam wrote: > << BP could mean yesterday or a week ago or a year ago or a million years ago.>> > > I thin k perhaps you missed the point. BP is *in conjunction* with a number > -- as in 500 BP (which means 500 years ago), or 250 BP (250 years ago.) > > You don't simply say something is "AD" -- you add the year. This works for > those working within a Christian calendar, but as someone pointed out, > there are many people in this world who don't (and some of those people > have some of the best artifacts.) Let's see if I can clarify the problem (or just make it muddier). When using "AD" or "CE" the starting point is "0". When using "BP" you need to how "present" is defined. I believe someone said "present" is calculated from 1950. That's not intuitive and one would to know that to understand the "BP" dating. --Charlene -- Eagles may soar, but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 00:30:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03825 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:30:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05170; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:48:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA13982 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:43:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA13977 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:43:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909170543.XAA13977@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 2758 invoked from network); 16 Sep 1999 23:43:18 -0600 Received: from ts25-18.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.11.33) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 16 Sep 1999 23:43:17 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Ever After Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:50:45 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" My husband's question is "Why does the Prince wear that same stupid (his words) leather jerkin through the whole movie? (he forgets about the costume ball and wedding) He is the Prince after all, doesn't he have more clothes?" Otherwise he likes the movie and it is his often his second choice after 'You've Got Mail' for a video night. Kathlene ---------- > From: Franchesca Havas > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Ever After > Date: Thursday, September 16, 1999 10:52 PM > > > -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" > > No answer just more questions. > > What was that leather tunic/jerkin the prince was wearing? My husband who > rarely pipes up for me to make him something really nice really like this > whole outfit. So here I am trying to find the period representations of the > various pieces and cannot find anything! Help! At this point I am willing to > go with original patterns that do not resemble anything strictly period to > those lands. > > Sincerely, > F. Havas > Dallas, Texas > motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: K & J Hopkins > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 11:05 PM > Subject: H-COST: Ever After > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 00:44:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03832 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:44:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05748; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:59:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA15274 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:54:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15269 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:54:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA26483 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-40.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.40]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA15304 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006c01bf00d2$3c2d5800$2671fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:02:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > >-Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley > >What I usually do when I need to do some onion skin dyeing is go to the >store and clean out all the old onion skins from the bin; the cashier is >usually very amused that I've got a bag of old onion skins, and interested >in the dyeing project. And, of course, I usually buy something while I'm >there. > >-- Mara > The cashiers I get say, "Are you dying eggs?" It is highly amusing and makes me want to pop off with something really outrageous. :) They are used to it. People do it all the time. I actually had one cashier charge me. It weighted at 12 cents. I left angry. I figured the store should have paid me the 12 cents for cleaning up their bin! Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 00:44:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03836 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:44:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06030; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:01:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA15495 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:57:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15490 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:56:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA27270 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:56:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-40.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.40]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA16361 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:56:56 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <007501bf00d2$84773400$2671fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Onion skins Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:04:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" ->Ok, I admit, I haven't ever done this, but... > >As one collected a bag or some measure of "enough" onion skins, could one >not boil them in a little bit of water to create the dye, strain it, and >then freeze the 'dye'? As one collected another bag of skins, boil >them in the previously made dye? Or conversely, just collect small >batches of dye in the freezer? In order for the dye to take, you have to add vinegar. I would be worried that the vinegar wouldn't freeze well. It is cheap enough to make, I wouldn't spend the money paying the electric bill to keep it frozen. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 01:07:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03855 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:07:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07122; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:25:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA18075 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:20:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18069 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:20:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 38.29.122.142 (ip200.phoenix12.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.124.200]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA15103 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:20:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E17B8A.5E51@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:21:46 +0000 From: "S. & J. McDaniel" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0-C-AICK1-2 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Hobby/Prof. & Haircolor References: <199909141909.NAA11740@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "S. & J. McDaniel" Sorry if this thread's run out. I'm just catching up on back e-mail. > > Karie Mitchell wrote: > > > > I have some other questions: > 1. How many on this list do costuming professionally? > 2. How many are doing this as a hobby?' > 3. How many hours do you devote to sewing? 1 & 2: Strictly hobby. I don't really enjoy sewing, and only do it for costumes. I do love historic dress, especially medieval, and adore this list because of the information so freely shared by so many people more learned than I. 3. I spend at least 2-4 hours every day on embroidery, mostly medieval themes and techniques. I do some handsewing, and only use the sewing machine if working on a big project. I'm naturally a gold-blonde, recently assisted by Clairol to cover a white streak growing to the left of my widow's peak. Dyed it red once, saw my mother in the mirror, and quickly bleached it back. Green eyes. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 01:09:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03859 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:09:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07308; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA18254 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:22:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18246 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:22:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA05852 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:22:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-40.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.40]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA28663 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:22:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <011101bf00d6$0d3f0b20$2671fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Getting Pine Pitch Out Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:29:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" After picking pine nuts, my hands have been covered. I realize that skin is very different than polyester but, I can tell you what I used. Butter. I smeared butter all over my hands and rubbed. It was the only thing that seem to work. Peanut butter might work also, because of the oil content. (and that is recommended for fabric, gum I think) Michelle > >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > >At 04:57 PM 09/16/1999 -0800, you wrote: >> >>-Poster: Julie Adams >> >> >>Help! My son just sat on a pine tree this afternoon that was covered with >>pitch. He now has it smeared all over the bottom of his polyester shorts. >>Any ideas on the best way to remove it? >> >>Julie Adams > I think I recall my grandma using turpentine--but that was >before polyester...I'd hesitate to advise you to use it, not knowing >whether the turpentine might dissolve or otherwise affect the poly. Anyone >else? Carol > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 01:12:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03866 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:12:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07441; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:29:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA18633 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:25:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18628 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:25:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA06715 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:25:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-40.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.40]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA00030 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:25:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <011a01bf00d6$7698f400$2671fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Gore or panel?? Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:32:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" One more thing to add. Gores help with shaping and panels add more bulk. Michelle >-Poster: "The Rogue" > >Thank you! > >Suddenly it became much easier to understand what goes on in patterns and >descriptions of historic clothing (modern too). I used to think these were >all interchangeable terms . . . you can imagine how many times I've re-cut >and refitted things. This is a BIG help. > >Zelda >-----Original Message----- >From: Cynthia Virtue >To: h-costume@indra.com >Date: September 16, 1999 5:51 AM >Subject: Re: H-COST: Gore or panel?? > > >> >>-Poster: Cynthia Virtue >> >>And there's also "godet" which seems to be identical to "gore" -- a >>triangle, and "gusset" which differs from those by being sewn all the >>way around, such as putting extra fabric at the underarm. >> >>Michelle wrote: >> >>> Usually, a gore is triangular in shape and a panel is rectangle. >>> Example for a skirt or dress: A gore would be used to widen the >bottom >>> half. A panel would be used to widen the whole thing fairly evenly. >>-- >>It's nearly time for October Fools' Day -- the Southern Hemisphere >>version of April Fools' Day. >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 01:17:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03873 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:17:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA07723; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:35:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA19056 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:30:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA19050 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:30:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA07983 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:30:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-40.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.40]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA02288 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:30:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <014b01bf00d7$2c08b500$2671fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Men's Costuming Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:37:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" What time period is your costume. It would narrow things down if you matched in this respect. Michelle ><< Ok so now what would you do when you ask your hubby what style or period of > dress he would like you to make and he says I dont care. What would you > do. My hubby is 5'8" his shoulders are aprox. 64 inches and his waist is 54 > or so. What could I make him to make him 1. comfortable. and 2. period. > > Pleas any help would be appreciated. > > Maykn Crofte _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 01:33:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03885 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:33:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08314; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:50:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA20456 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:45:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw6.pacbell.net (mail-gw6.pacbell.net [206.13.28.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20449 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:45:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-69-190.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.69.190]) by mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24257 for ; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:45:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E18213.DDF5A043@pacbell.net> Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:49:43 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Men's Costuming References: <199909161710.KAA24889@zeus.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Carol wrote: > Well, what I might do, is find some illustrations of stuff I think would look > really fine on him, and some that you know he wouldn't wear on a bet. Tell him > you've found some and you'd like him to tell you what he thinks...and pray his > taste agrees with yours. :-) Gentlemen of the list--is that a reasonable plan > of action that might elicit the lady's spouse's choice of attire in a subtle > way? That would work. It might help sway him in a positive direction if you show him pictures of warriors and Kings for some of the styles that might be perceived of as less than manly...you know, the poofy pants. :-) Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 01:33:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03889 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:33:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08331; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:50:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA20495 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:46:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA20488 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:46:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.130] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11RrmU-00018q-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 23:46:03 -0700 Message-Id: <4.0.2.19990916222050.00d5d970@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 22:29:35 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: pronunciation In-Reply-To: <37E1CB96.B6CE22F2@flash.net> References: <4.2.0.58.19990916134005.00973b90@rrnet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 12:03 AM 09/17/1999 -0500, you wrote: -Poster: Charlene Charette >J,K,S&A Baird wrote: Herjolfsnes hair yolf (rhymes with golf) ness Just like it's spelled! >> Kim (whose grandparents were mostly Norwegian) > Are any of the syllables accented or stressed?--Charlene It's possible I put the accent on a syllable other than the one in Norwegian, but I find myself emphasizing 'jolf'. Secondary accent on 'Her', tertiary [least] on 'nes'.-- Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 01:57:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03941 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:57:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA09229; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:13:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA22349 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:08:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from falcon.canfield.com (falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA22343 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 01:08:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Leslie (u6-24.wa.net [206.191.135.88]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA07463 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:15:57 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990917000218.035b4970@mail.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslie@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 00:06:55 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: BP still means "blood pressure" to me In-Reply-To: <199909161639.KAA13614@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Leslie Helms Marc wrote: *************** "BP" technically means "Before Present", where "Present" is an assumed date of 1950. This way the term remains meaningful, regardless of when we look at the date. As for being "PC", it's not. It's a means of expressing accuracy to anyone, by anyone, regardless of the dating system that they use - and has been so for many, many years. *************** 1950? Why 1950? How widely is this known? I hadn't heard it before. How long will anyone keep feeling that 1950 is "present"? I'd like to see a dating system that isn't based on someone else's religion, but I don't think this is it. Leslie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 04:41:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA00428 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 04:41:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA16017; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 03:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA27664 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 03:54:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA27659 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 03:54:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-33qsc3p.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.48.121]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA28352 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:54:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00cd01bf00f2$a757d4a0$7930aec7@oemcomputer> From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair color Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 04:54:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" -----Original Message----- From: Margo Anderson To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 20:20 Subject: H-COST: Hair color > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > > >I've been considering the Clairol Natural Instincts Black Cherry colorant, >ever since someone told me it turned her grey hair bright purple. Now THAT >sounds like fun! > I used that exact shade several times, and it gave my brown hair a delightful burgandy cast with purple highlights on my premature grey hairs and the blond hairs that just won't die. Anya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 06:11:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00507 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 06:11:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19110; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:28:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA04619 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:24:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA04607 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:24:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990917112403.USCG13005.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 04:24:03 -0700 Message-ID: <37E2235E.394FDAB0@home.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 06:17:50 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Seams in leather References: <4.1.19990914091312.035c1b80@mail.canfield.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Leslie Helms wrote: > > Perhaps someone else has posted this and I missed it. One feasible > seam in leather, and the flattest one, is to overlap the two pieces > and sew the overlap area. With light, supple leather the bulk isn't a > problem, but heavier leathers don't fold flat. Obviously the overlap > must be carefully figured, either by adding a small seam allowance to > both meeting edges or by cutting one edge on the seam line and leaving > an allowance on the other. > When double-stitched, this seam is quite strong (it can be enhanced > by glueing first) and it gives the general look of a felled seam. Actually, you can do this with heavier leather by shaving down the thickness of the leather at the seam. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 06:12:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00511 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 06:12:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19250; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:29:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA04711 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:25:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA04705 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:25:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990917112504.USKJ13005.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 04:25:04 -0700 Message-ID: <37E224AE.B810E56B@home.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 06:23:26 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Not a red-head, and some other questions. References: <19990914170029.22800.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Karie Mitchell wrote: > > I have some other questions: > How many on this list do costuming professionally? Guess I'd be a semiprofessional. Most of my sewing is for my dad's plays at the high school where he teaches. I also sometimes costume his colleagues musicals (when I do it's three to four productions a year rather than two). I also do some sewing for Ren Faire but prefer to teach someone how to do it rather than do it myself. > How many are doing this as a hobby?' Well, it's been a hobby of mine for 26+ years...I've only been doing the plays for 3 (finally got my dad to believe it was cheaper to build up his own stock rather than rent!!). > How many hours do you devote to sewing? That varies...during a production I may sew 8-14 hours a day. Otherwise it's probably averaging out to about 2-3 hours a week. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 06:18:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00516 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 06:18:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19487; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:35:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA05197 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:31:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA05185 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:31:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02306 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:30:35 -0400 Message-ID: <37E2265C.3B545775@thibault.org> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:31:01 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Canadian Iceman update References: <37E1CD5C.90C06D3B@flash.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > Let's see if I can clarify the problem (or just make it muddier). > When using "AD" or "CE" the starting point is "0". Er, 1, actually. There was no year zero. Ordinal numbering system. Hence the Millenium starting in 2001. I agree that 1950 is hardly intuitive for "before present." Which makes *now* "-49BP" which is rather amusing. cv Main Entry: ordinal number Function: noun Date: 1607 1 : a number designating the place (as first, second, or third) occupied by an item in an ordered sequence -- It's nearly time for October Fools' Day -- the Southern Hemisphere version of April Fools' Day. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 06:29:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00529 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 06:29:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19805; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:46:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA06022 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:41:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA06014 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:41:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem107.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.107] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11RwOc-0008R4-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:41:43 +0100 Message-ID: <004901bf0101$a0f8fad0$6b065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Getting Pine Pitch Out Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:40:34 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Sorry I have not experience of pine pitch, but there are a couple of things that tend to work on large areas, before having to reach for solvents. Make a sandwich of a tea towel and wad of paper kichen rolls; set your iron as hot as you think right and try and iron through the sandwich, to absorb the pitch out/ The other exteme; (, works with chewing gum;) Place the article in the freezer. When its stiff and using rubber gloves, break up the pitch. Lumps should come away easily;smeary parts you can rub out. Might be worth trying. Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters ----- Original Message ----- From: Julie Adams To: Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 1:57 AM Subject: H-COST: OT: Getting Pine Pitch Out > > -Poster: Julie Adams > > > Help! My son just sat on a pine tree this afternoon that was covered with > pitch. He now has it smeared all over the bottom of his polyester shorts. > Any ideas on the best way to remove it? > > Julie Adams > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 06:33:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00535 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 06:33:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA19966; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:50:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA06447 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:45:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA06442 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:45:48 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6MUIa12734 (4413) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:45:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2d08e33f.251383c8@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:45:12 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Les Incroyables et Mervilleuses To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Also look for The Age of Napoleon, Costume from Revolution to Empire, from the Metropolitan Museum of Art. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 07:42:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00688 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:42:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23662; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 06:59:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA13234 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 06:54:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13229 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 06:54:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990917125443.VQTS13005.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 05:54:43 -0700 Message-ID: <37E23A06.5F8430E3@home.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:54:30 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Freezing Vinegar (was Onion skins) References: <007501bf00d2$84773400$2671fea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Michelle wrote: > > In order for the dye to take, you have to add vinegar. I would be > worried that the vinegar wouldn't freeze well. It is cheap enough to > make, I wouldn't spend the money paying the electric bill to keep it > frozen. Well, it's not in my book _Will It Freeze?: An A to Z Guide to Foods that Freeze_ by Joan Hood so my dh has put a half cup into the freezer to see how it does. We shall let you know the results of our experiment. Wine vinegar is mentioned in one of the entries (how to freeze cooked cucumbers). Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 08:27:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00788 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:27:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26977; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:43:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18811 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:37:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18800 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:37:31 -0600 (MDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ESH0JDk24 (8008) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:36:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <10c2bc74.25139df9@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:36:57 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Ever After To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 9/16/99 10:48:04 PM Mountain Daylight Time, ches@io.com writes: << So here I am trying to find the period representations of the various pieces and cannot find anything! Help! >> This is where the worlds of the costume designer and the re-enactment folks differ. My guess is that, although based on research, a lot of the wardrobe in "Ever After" is fantasy. After all, the premise of the film is a fairy tale. I can't imagine, for example, that that costume ball number ever existed in real life, although Inigo Jones manifested some theatrical costumes of that nature. And did you notice how spic and span everything looked? Hard to manage in the days before dry cleaners. "Shakespeare in Love", on the other hand was much less "creative" with the period. But even here, certain liberties have been taken. When this sort of creativity is exercised without damaging the period feel, I enjoy the look. But you might find it hard to find the actual garment in real life. And they're mostly made on industrial sewing machines. Just a different emphasis. When a film does call for authenticity, a good costume designer generally becomes a re-enactment specialist right away. Cheryl Odom, Costume Designer _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 08:28:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00792 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:28:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27132; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:44:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18978 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:38:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18969 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:38:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FI700F5EHVKPX@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:38:08 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:46:29 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: BP (was H-COST: Canadian Iceman update - OT) In-reply-to: <199909170647.AAA20627@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990917084629.007aaab0@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson From: Charlene Charette >Let's see if I can clarify the problem (or just make it muddier). When using "AD" >or "CE" the starting point is "0". When using "BP" you need to how "present" is >defined. I believe someone said "present" is calculated from 1950. That's not >intuitive and one would to know that to understand the "BP" dating. Um, no. In either AD or CE there is no year "0". That's why 2001 is the beginning of the next Millenium. And you are right, the use of 1950 as a starting date is not intuitive to someone who isn't trained to use it. That doesn't make it bad or wrong. It's a system that in its own context (that of archaeology) makes perfect sense. For that matter, 1 BCE as a date that's 2000 years before Right Now, or 1500 BP isn't particularly intuitive either. And certainly not, if the year Right Now happens to be for you: 5760 AM, 1420 AH, Ji-Mau (16th year in the 78th cycle), 2,451,403.5 JD, 51,403 MJD, or for that matter 2752 AUD or 13 Acactl. I suspect that it's unfamiliar to you because under normal circumstances, since carbon-14 dating (which is how it's derived) is usually not used with relatively recent materials, so you generally don't see it used in the media for items under a thousand years old (at which point the (now 49 year) difference between "Present" as assumed, and Right NOW as it currently is for the reader (something that changes every day, and will continue to do so) isn't really important. Therefore the whole thing generally doesn't come up. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 08:36:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00802 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:36:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27623; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:52:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA20072 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:46:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20052 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:46:05 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6VVYa10034 (4011) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:45:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:45:28 EDT Subject: H-COST: Greenland gowns To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com While we're talking about those famed Greenland Gowns . . . Greenland was pretty far from the hub of the European fashion scene. It's fantastic that the gowns exist to copy (Black Swan, www.historicenterprises.com, sells a great men's gown that is a copy of one of them, NOT the 10-gore gown or whatever we're calling it). My question is, how accurate is it to copy these gowns for the rest of Europe? Did Greenlanders wear the same thing as everyone else? Were they maybe a bit behind the times? Were these garments worn throughout Europe -- but by only one class, or as only a small part of the garment choices available? Exactly how do these garments fit in the scheme of things? Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 08:36:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00806 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:36:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27645; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:52:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA20096 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:46:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20077 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 07:46:15 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6RWQa06003 (4011) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:45:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <765bc339.25139ffa@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:45:30 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: men's costuming web site To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Yes! Please start one and then let us know the address! My husband sews (and very well) but is not particularly interested in reading hundreds of posts on a costuming list like this wonderful one. But he would love looking at a web site. For that matter, so would I. I do make him things occasionally, when I have time. Let's see, the last time was about five years ago . . . Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 10:00:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01063 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:00:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07110; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:16:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA06160 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:13:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA06153 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:13:35 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990917152052.17475.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:20:52 PDT Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:20:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: H-COST: Books To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Can anyone tell me anything good or bad in regards to these books? I am going to be making a resource books purchase and would like some advice. Thanks! Sarah Women's Costume in French texts of the Eleventh and Twelfth centuries by Eunice Rathbone Goddard Kings, Queens, Knights and Jesters: Making Medieval Costumes by Lynn Edelman Schnurnberger Handbook of Medieval costume by C. Willett Cunnington Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince by Stella Mary Newton Period Costume for Stage and Screen: Patterns for Women's Dress, Medieval - 1500 by Jean Hunnisett Ecclesiastical Dress in the Medieval Near East by Karel C Innemee (note: This book retails at about $120, so I really need info on this one ;-) Clothes Make the Man: Femal Cross Dressing in Medieval Europe by Valerie R Hotchkiss 20,000 Years of Fashion: The History of Costume and Personal Adornment by Francois Leon Louis Boucher After A Fashion: How to Reproduce, Restore and Wear Vintage Styles by Frances Grimble __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 10:12:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01086 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:12:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08442; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:29:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09360 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:26:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09347 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:26:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p11.directcon.net [206.170.184.60]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA09707 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:26:39 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:26:39 -0700 Message-Id: <199909171526.IAA09707@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: zoot suit (long) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >One final historic note...I've taken a couple of Frankie Manning workshops (Frankie was one of the first swing dancers and is credited for inventing aerial moves so closely associated with the dance) and got the opportunity to ask him last year whether zoots were really popular back in the golden days of swing dancing at the Savoy. He said that there was a short time at the beginning of WWII when they were popular in Harlem, but mostly it was more popular with Latinos. This may be a regional difference. My father, who lived in New York city, thinks of zoot suits as a Black style, and my mother, who lived in Burbank (near Los Angeles) remembers it as a Mexican style. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 10:19:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01094 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:19:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09375; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:35:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11513 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:32:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11506 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:32:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA14589; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:33:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E25F8B.AB646970@serv.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:34:35 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Getting Pine Pitch Out References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover I've used mayonaise and a handy little product called Goo Gone. Both work great. Cynthia Julie Adams wrote: > -Poster: Julie Adams > > Help! My son just sat on a pine tree this afternoon that was covered with > pitch. He now has it smeared all over the bottom of his polyester shorts. > Any ideas on the best way to remove it? > > Julie Adams > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 10:20:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01101 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:20:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09593; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:36:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11831 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:33:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11807 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:33:37 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) id IAA15927 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:33:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909171533.IAA15927@eclipse.pacifier.com> Received: from ip148.van17.pacifier.com(216.65.137.148), claiming to be "grendal2" via SMTP by smtp.pacifier.com, id smtpdAAAuWaGcF; Fri Sep 17 08:33:26 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:36:24 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Books Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19990917152052.17475.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Women's Costume in French texts of the Eleventh and > Twelfth centuries by Eunice Rathbone Goddard It is an interesting book, although it should actually read "Twelfth and Thirteenth Centuries" because that's what it really covers. (I think there was a bit of a problem with forgetting that 1150 is 12th Century, not 11th.) No pictures of useful nature. It's all text. Still, it has a lot of information (especially concerning names for garments in France at that time.) > Kings, Queens, Knights and Jesters: Making Medieval > Costumes by Lynn Edelman Schnurnberger I'm not fond of this one. It always felt to me to be a book for making children's costumes for Halloween and gradeschool plays. > Handbook of Medieval costume by C. Willett Cunnington CW is a good author in general but this one is not as good as some of his more time specific books like the ones he's done on 16th C and 19th C. It's more on a par with his Underwear book (which Dover puts out.) > Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince by Stella Mary > Newton Wonderful book. Lots of good information on the time period including things from written sources of the time period. It's supposedly coming out in November as a re-release. (It was originally scheduled for this month.) > Period Costume for Stage and Screen: Patterns for > Women's Dress, Medieval - 1500 by Jean Hunnisett It's a fun book but more theatrical in the cut of the clothes than in some of her later period books. It's a good place for an intermediate level costumer to start (as it's a bit much for the average beginner but not accurate enough for the advanced historical costumer.) > 20,000 Years of Fashion: The History of Costume and > Personal Adornment by Francois Leon Louis Boucher This is one of the standard "need to be in a library" books along with Davenport. The other books I'm not as familiar with. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 10:24:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01115 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:24:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10015; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:40:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA12613 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:37:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net (wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net [192.48.96.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12588 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:37:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jwilbur1 by wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: og3pool109-80.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.109.80]) id QQhhbq04637 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:38:25 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:39:17 -0400 Subject: Re: H-COST: Books Priority: normal In-reply-to: <19990917152052.17475.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" I don't have most of the books on this list, but Boucher is darn near indispensible, at least for the sheer numbers of pictures either of extant garments or period sources such as illuminations and portraits. I haven't even had time to plow through all the text yet. I have Hunnisett's 1500-1800 book, which has some really good information on techniques and fitting. I plan to use it a good bit when I make a Tudor for myself. =) (I think I've heard that her Medieval-1500 isn't quite as good, but I don't own it and couldn't tell you for sure) I have Newton on order from Amazon.com, impatiently waiting for it to be reprinted. Hope this helps! --Jessica > > -Poster: Sarah Toney > > > Can anyone tell me anything good or bad in regards to > these books? I am going to be making a resource books > purchase and would like some advice. > > Thanks! > > Sarah > > Women's Costume in French texts of the Eleventh and > Twelfth centuries by Eunice Rathbone Goddard > > Kings, Queens, Knights and Jesters: Making Medieval > Costumes by Lynn Edelman Schnurnberger > > Handbook of Medieval costume by C. Willett Cunnington > > Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince by Stella Mary > Newton > > Period Costume for Stage and Screen: Patterns for > Women's Dress, Medieval - 1500 by Jean Hunnisett > > Ecclesiastical Dress in the Medieval Near East by > Karel C Innemee (note: This book retails at about > $120, so I really need info on this one ;-) > > Clothes Make the Man: Femal Cross Dressing in Medieval > Europe by Valerie R Hotchkiss > > 20,000 Years of Fashion: The History of Costume and > Personal Adornment by Francois Leon Louis Boucher > > After A Fashion: How to Reproduce, Restore and Wear > Vintage Styles by Frances Grimble > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 10:37:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01125 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:37:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12059; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:54:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA15792 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:50:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15778 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:50:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA15445; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:51:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E263D3.DE8D1982@serv.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:52:52 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Books References: <19990917152052.17475.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover If I'm not familiar with the book, I deleted it from the list. > Kings, Queens, Knights and Jesters: Making Medieval > Costumes by Lynn Edelman Schnurnberger A book on making costumes for children. There are a couple cool period pictures though. I actually used some of them for documentation at one time. > Handbook of Medieval costume by C. Willett Cunnington Good but not much primary documentation/ > Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince by Stella Mary Newton A must have for 14th century! > Period Costume for Stage and Screen: Patterns for > Women's Dress, Medieval - 1500 by Jean Hunnisett Not bad, not period but a good place to start. She covers everything. > 20,000 Years of Fashion: The History of Costume and > Personal Adornment by Francois Leon Louis Boucher Worth having. Lots and lots of pictures. -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 10:46:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01143 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:46:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13236; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:03:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17852 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:00:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17840 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:00:04 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6YSVa11893 (4567) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:59:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <782d9beb.2513bf5e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:59:26 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Books To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/17/1999 11:19:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, sarah_and_pooh@yahoo.com writes: << Period Costume for Stage and Screen: Patterns for Women's Dress, Medieval - 1500 by Jean Hunnisett >> "Stage & Screen" are the optimum words here; there have been many complaints from accuracy enthusiasts. [Some things are accurate, however]. The best thing about this book is its instructions on how to drape & deal with the large pattern pieces in this draped [as opposed to structured] period. I find her examples she uses to illustrate how things look to be very strange indeed: ballets, fantasy operas costumed in the 1960s.....is this all she came come up with to illustrate one of the most common periods in theatre????? Still, the instructions on draping are well worth having. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 10:54:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01243 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:54:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14470; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:10:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA19831 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:07:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19822 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:07:47 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6GZJ00dIAl (4567) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:07:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <45ea09cb.2513c132@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:07:14 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Books To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/17/1999 11:54:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, keltia@serv.net writes: << > 20,000 Years of Fashion: The History of Costume and > Personal Adornment by Francois Leon Louis Boucher Worth having. Lots and lots of pictures. >> This was my text book when I was in college [1975-79] and the prose is...er...dull...to say the least. My only other complaint is if you open up this tome in the middle, you will find you're only to about 1550! It has aprox. 200 pages before you even get to the 12th century and yet covers the entire 20th century...with it's fast changing fashions...in about 10 pages! What's up wi'that?! Too many pages of stone age clothes! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 11:00:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01375 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:00:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15356; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:17:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21263 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:13:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21249 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:13:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem119.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.247] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11S0dw-0005c6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:13:48 +0100 Message-ID: <002901bf0127$a3cce610$f7065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <19990917152052.17475.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Books Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:12:10 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" > > -Poster: Sarah Toney > > > > Clothes Make the Man: Femal Cross Dressing in Medieval > Europe by Valerie R Hotchkiss > Please please tell me who has got the above in stock; I couldnt find it when searching. Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 11:08:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01524 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:08:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16413; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:24:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA22864 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:21:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA22850 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:21:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990917162850.12030.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:28:50 PDT Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:28:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Books To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Amazon.com has it for $45.00. There may be a wait, but they are selling it. ;-) I found all of these on Amazon, though some are out of print... but Amazon is nice about finding OOP books for you... my boyfriend collects OOP books and has had great luck with Amazon. Sarah > > Clothes Make the Man: Femal Cross Dressing in > Medieval > > Europe by Valerie R Hotchkiss > > > Please please tell me who has got the above in > stock; > I couldnt find it when searching. > Dave > L.D.Mundy > Editor.Heritage Matters __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 11:09:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01531 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:09:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16594; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:25:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23271 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:22:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23260 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:22:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FI700KNFPGWTE@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:22:08 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:30:29 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns In-reply-to: <199909171526.JAA09374@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990917113029.007b3d10@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id KAA23265 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson From: Gaelscot@aol.com >While we're talking about those famed Greenland Gowns . . . Greenland was >pretty far from the hub of the European fashion scene. It's fantastic that >the gowns exist to copy (Black Swan, www.historicenterprises.com, sells a >great men's gown that is a copy of one of them, NOT the 10-gore gown or >whatever we're calling it). My question is, how accurate is it to copy these >gowns for the rest of Europe? Did Greenlanders wear the same thing as >everyone else? Were they maybe a bit behind the times? Were these garments >worn throughout Europe -- but by only one class, or as only a small part of >the garment choices available? Exactly how do these garments fit in the >scheme of things? >Gail Finke I think that's something that's up to debate. Either we assume that they were on the ultimate fringes and so they aren't accurate because they weren't on the cutting edge of fashion, or we can assume that they tried to keep up with the fashions as best as they could (hence the pleated front - v-necked bodice). Even if we stick with things as most conservative, the general lines of the garments (gored skirts, assembly techniques, etc) resemble the few from other Scandinavian areas (re: Bocksten, Moselund, Rønbjerg, Skjoldehamn, and such) that we can assume that they are GENERALLY accurate. Try thinking of them as a homemade copy of a Kmart knockoff of a Paris original. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 11:12:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01537 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:12:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17015; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:28:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA23996 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:25:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23985 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:25:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id JAA16899; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:26:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E26BF7.3EC405D5@serv.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:27:36 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Books References: <45ea09cb.2513c132@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > << > 20,000 Years of Fashion: The History of Costume and > > Personal Adornment by Francois Leon Louis Boucher > > Worth having. Lots and lots of pictures. > > This was my text book when I was in college [1975-79] and the prose > is...er...dull...to say the least. Hence my comment about pictures only. *g* I would suspect that the reason there isn't much on the 20th century is twofold. First, the book was published too early in the century to expect much and second, I figure they didn't think anyone would be interested in the 20th century for costuming. I'm not saying that's accurate or valid. Just a thought. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 11:19:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01676 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:19:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18038; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:36:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25668 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:33:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net (wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net [192.48.96.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25650 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:33:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jwilbur1 by wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: og3pool109-80.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.109.80]) id QQhhbu16862 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:34:17 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:35:09 -0400 Subject: Re: H-COST: Books Priority: normal In-reply-to: <37E26BF7.3EC405D5@serv.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > > > << > 20,000 Years of Fashion: The History of Costume and > > > Personal Adornment by Francois Leon Louis Boucher > > > > Worth having. Lots and lots of pictures. > > > > This was my text book when I was in college [1975-79] and the prose > > is...er...dull...to say the least. > > Hence my comment about pictures only. *g* I would suspect that the reason > there isn't much on the 20th century is twofold. First, the book was published > too early in the century to expect much and second, I figure they didn't think > anyone would be interested in the 20th century for costuming. I'm not saying > that's accurate or valid. Just a thought. > > Cynthia It also occurs to me that anyone studying 20th century fashion has many sources at their disposal. This is not necessarily the case for pre-historic and very early clothing. I think it's kind of cool that Boucher has a lot of material on the clothing of "Stone Age" and early cultures. It isn't my primary area of study and I might not otherwise go out of my way to research it, but I still find it interesting. Just my two cents! --Jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 11:27:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01727 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:27:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19296; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:43:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27369 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:39:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27360 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:39:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990917163946.GSY2543.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:39:46 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:42:25 -0700 Subject: H-COST: men's costume From: "R.L. Shep" To: "h-costume" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3020406145_99897_MIME_Part" Message-Id: <19990917163946.GSY2543.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3020406145_99897_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit This was recently posted to the list in regard to Men's Costuming. *That's because women just need more clothes (in any period)! I haven't heard anyone discouraging the guys from jumping in. Personally I'd like to hear more from guys who wear Japanese or Middle Eastern costume. It's usually the interminable kilt question or doublets. Or civil war uniforms. Yawn! one reason is, i believe, that so very few guys are interested in costuming. if they are, it's certain periods, as you've pointed out, or military stuff. many have this weak excuse that they can't sew. some additions to the list of disregarded men's costumes: rhingraves, justaucorps, cuts..* I think it is very simplistic. There have been some great men's costumers, some great men tailors who have made both men's and women's garments throughout history. Presently many of the male costumers are gone due to AIDS. Evenso I know of a number of men who are costumers, both those who do tailoring and those who don't, and I know from my contacts with them that they are very busy - but most of them have been overly generous with information when asked serious questions. I doubt that many have the time for this list. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com --MS_Mac_OE_3020406145_99897_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable men's costume This was recently posted to the list in regard to Men's = Costuming.
*That's because women just need more clothes (in any period)!
I haven't heard anyone discouraging the guys from jumping in.
Personally I'd like to hear more from guys who wear Japanese
or Middle Eastern costume. It's usually the interminable
kilt question or doublets. Or civil war uniforms. Yawn!
one reason is, i believe, that so very few guys are interested in costuming= . if they are, it's certain periods, as you've pointed out, or military stuf= f. many have this weak excuse that they can't sew.
some additions to the list of disregarded men's costumes: rhingraves, justa= ucorps, cuts..*
I think it is very simplistic.
There have been some great men's costumers, some great men tailors who have= made both men's and women's garments throughout history.
Presently many of the male costumers are gone due to AIDS. Evenso I know o= f a number of men who are costumers, both those who do tailoring and those w= ho don't, and I know from my contacts with them that they are very busy - bu= t most of them have been overly generous with information when asked serious= questions. I doubt that many have the time for this list.
~!~ R.L.Shep
http://www.rlshep.com

~!~ R.L.Shep
http://www.rlshep.com
 --MS_Mac_OE_3020406145_99897_MIME_Part-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 11:27:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01731 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:27:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19284; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:43:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27376 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:39:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27368 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:39:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990917163948.GTE2543.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:39:48 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:43:17 -0700 Subject: H-COST: gored skirts From: "R.L. Shep" To: "h-costume" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="MS_Mac_OE_3020406197_103041_MIME_Part" Message-Id: <19990917163948.GTE2543.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > THIS MESSAGE IS IN MIME FORMAT. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --MS_Mac_OE_3020406197_103041_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit I know it is completely out of the period that was being discussed - and for that reason I did not mention it before - but the discussion seems to have got more general. Gored Skirts were very popular in the early 1910s. You will find patterns for a *7 gore skirt* and another for a *13 gore skirt* in *THE GREAT WAR: Styles and Patterns of the 1910s* these are original source material. The book is available from Fred Struthers at the website below. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com --MS_Mac_OE_3020406197_103041_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable gored skirts I know it is completely out of the period that was being discussed - an= d for
that reason I did not mention it before - but the discussion seems to have<= BR> got more general.

Gored Skirts were very popular in the early 1910s. You will find patterns<= BR> for a
*7 gore skirt* and another for a *13 gore skirt* in
*THE GREAT WAR: Styles and Patterns of the 1910s* these are original sourc= e
material. The book is available from Fred Struthers at the website below.<= BR> ~!~ R.L.Shep
http://www.rlshep.com

 --MS_Mac_OE_3020406197_103041_MIME_Part-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 12:14:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01841 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:14:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25653; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:30:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA08750 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:26:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08733 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:26:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA09512 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:34:41 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA19535 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:32:35 -0500 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:32:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990917113029.007b3d10@pop.utulsa.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton Gail wrote: > >Greenland was pretty far from the hub of the European fashion scene.... > >how accurate is it to copy these gowns for the rest of Europe? Marc replied: > I think that's something that's up to debate. Either we assume that > they were on the ultimate fringes and so they aren't accurate because > they weren't on the cutting edge of fashion, or we can assume that they > tried to keep up with the fashions as best as they could (hence the > pleated front - v-necked bodice). They may have tried to "keep up," but I think we need to recognize the many factors that would influence the results. Distance (in language and culture as well as geography) is key. The colony's contact with the mainland was sporadic, and examples or even verbal descriptions of the European styles would have taken some years to make their way to the colonies. Cutting and fitting methods changed a great deal over the course of the 14th century, and I would hesitate to assume that the details of any new techniques would be accurately represented in the distant colonies concurrently with their use in the central mainland -- if they were accurately conveyed at all. The traders who brought supplies to the colonies were probably not experts in tailoring of high-fashion women's gowns! We need to also remember the class and economic differences. The people in Greenland were colonists -- trying to survive off the land in a tough environment. And remember, ultimately they failed. People in these circumstances would not have been expending their vital resources in making fashions in the style of the leisure class. They certainly would not have had the luxury to engage in conspicuous consumption, which is a key element of upper-class 14th-century European fashion. Yet I have heard many people make the assumption that the construction seen in the 10-"gore" dress or other Greenland finds represents the techniques used in, say, the French or English court. I think this is a BIG mistake. The type and availability of fabrics, the intended use, the intended lifespan of the garments, time available for clothing construction, and many other factors would have varied dramatically from one milieu to the other. On top of that, although the 10-piece dress does display some fitting, this construction does not reliably produce the extreme fitted silhouette of European court dress in the second half of the 14th century (despite assumptions to the contrary by some authors who, I can only surmise, do not sew). (If I remember right -- my books are packed -- the Greenland gown doesn't even have a long center front opening, so it would have to be wide enough in the torso to fit over the shoulders. That precludes tight-to-the-body fitting for most female bodies. Yes, there are a few women who are shaped in such a way as to manage to achieve a tight fit without lacing or buttons, but they are the exception, so the construction method clearly can't be the same one used throughout the European court to achieve the Gothic fitted dress.) We also need to be wary when reconstructing a construction method based on an archaeological find. For instance, I wonder if some of the multiple pieces we find in the 10-whatever dress represent not the original construction, but years of re-making. Could this gown have begun as, say, a four-piece or six-piece dress, and been repaired or remade over the years, possibly for different wearers? Alteration and repair of older clothing is common practice in a culture in which fabric is not to be wasted. If I had heard about fitted fashions and wanted to remake a loose tunic to a more fitted style, I would probably take vertical seams in some of the large pieces, in effect creating smaller pieces. If this is so, then any attempt to reconstruct a cutting pattern from the eccentric pieces we find today would not accurately represent the original cutting method used by the Greenlanders. I need to experiment a little with fabric before I can state that as a theory with confidence, though. I think the Greenland gowns are highly valuable for what they are, and we may be able to extrapolate, with some caution, to mainland Scandinavia, to the working class, and to the early half of the 14th century. But that's quite different from making the grand leap to assuming these finds demonstrate "European fashion" or anything done in Western European court circles. So, that's my $.02. I'm quite interested in other people's opinions, as I'm actually working on a lecture about this right now (hmm, that probably showed, didn't it?). --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 12:24:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01848 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:24:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26881; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:41:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11669 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:38:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11614 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:38:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990917173821.ZOKP13005.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:38:21 -0700 Message-ID: <37E27C71.BB680027@home.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:37:53 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Freezing Vinegar (was Onion skins) References: <007501bf00d2$84773400$2671fea9@gunsafes> <37E23A06.5F8430E3@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Kat & Kent wrote: > > Well, it's not in my book _Will It Freeze?: An A to Z Guide to Foods > that Freeze_ by Joan Hood so my dh has put a half cup into the freezer > to see how it does. We shall let you know the results of our > experiment. Wine vinegar is mentioned in one of the entries (how to > freeze cooked cucumbers). Well, the vinegar is quite frozen solid. Now we will allow it to thaw and see if it's still good (I'm betting on it...sure smells like vinegar!!). Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 12:45:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01880 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:45:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28858; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:58:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15897 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:55:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15888 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:55:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id KAA20528; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:55:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E280F9.AEEF7122@serv.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 10:57:14 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > So, that's my $.02. I'm quite interested in other people's opinions, as > I'm actually working on a lecture about this right now (hmm, that probably > showed, didn't it?). Yes it showed. In a most interesting and informative way. Thanks for your input, quite well thought out. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 12:45:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01888 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:45:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29004; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:59:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16180 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:56:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16158 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:56:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA18527 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:55:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp227-84.worldonline.nl [195.241.227.84]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA08568 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:55:33 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909171755.TAA08568@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re H-Cost: costuming and haircolour Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:42:35 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi y'all, Carol wrote: > So, Henk--when are you going to write and publish your book? I > know those of us on the list who would purchase it are a small initial > market, but I'm sure word would spread fast in the reenactment communities, > too. Y'all probably know we have our own business and a busy one it is, so there's not much time for writing. But... as I can't do without, I've begun a series of articles about my period's clothing in our living history society's magazine Cronike. These are meant to be included in the costume handbook for the 1250-1350 period. I do research on small aspects of costume (linings, cloth breadths and prices, linen cottes, dressing up to the climate, hats, etc) and because they represent current trends within the society or because I get asked questions about certain aspects of clothing. Just last week I talked to Pauline about it and the idea started taking hold of us of reworking and translating this handbook into an english costume book, as there is probably a larger market for it in the anglo speaking world than in the dutch-speaking one. You'll have to be patient though. It's a slow process and I'm learning and researching everyday lately. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 12:59:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01920 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:59:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01002; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:13:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19550 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:10:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA19528 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:10:20 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990917181743.20704.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:17:43 PDT Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:17:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: men's costume To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney > *That's because women just need more clothes (in any > period)! Ooooh.... I beg to differ... my significant other has more costuming that I could dream of having... he just *has* to have a new outfit for this and a new cloak for that and he just *can't* be seen in the same outfit twice in a row when he meets the King! It's amusing, actually... I have become the Queen of accessorizing to change his outfits... ;-) > many have this weak excuse that they can't sew. Actually, there are some people, men or not, who really just can't sew... they either don't see things the way we do to be able to put the pieces together, or they just have no desire to do the work themselves.. I meet just as many women who feel this way as men. > Presently many of the male costumers are gone due to > AIDS. Evenso I know of ??? I'm not sure what one has to do with the other... please enlighten me... 'cuz from where I'm standing, this falls right into the "only effeminet (sp?) men sew" category and I don't think that is what was meant. My 2 cents, Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 13:07:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01947 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:07:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02356; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:24:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21916 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:20:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx20.rmci.net (saturn.rmci.net [205.162.184.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA21563 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:19:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 20094 invoked from network); 17 Sep 1999 18:18:54 -0000 Received: from pag-di40.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.40) by mx20.rmci.net with SMTP; 17 Sep 1999 18:18:54 -0000 Message-ID: <37E28513.58B2982E@rica.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:14:45 -0400 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Fabric on eBay References: <199906120037.RAA19290@smtp.pacifier.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jennie Chancey I've just put up 25 yards of white chiffon and 3.25 yards of forest green chiffon on eBay. The white is less than $3 per yard, and I do not have a reserve on either piece -- opening bid is my "reserve." These are new fabrics that I bought to use for a couple of orders, only to have the customers change their minds, so I'm "liquidating" the fabric. ;-) Thanks! Jennie Chancey Here's my eBay link: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=chanceys&include=0&since=-1&sort=2 -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 13:08:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01951 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:08:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02372; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:24:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21998 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:21:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21987 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:21:09 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17110 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:21:06 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25459 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:21:05 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:21:04 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: movie costume commentatry was: Ever After In-Reply-To: <10c2bc74.25139df9@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com I need ideas not commentary. Although the commentary under a different heading would have been better recieved. I have worked on a set at time or two and one of them was for an amish type movie. We did not use industrial machines, there was a lot of hand sewing and a few old singers in the shop. Maybe it was because the shows I worked on were for TV but we never had any industrial machines in there, only the normal ones. From this experiance I have come to believe that not all movie costumes are not made by industrial machines but by a crew of both machine and hand sewers. I learned how to do lots of creative things very fast and the seams would last a lot longer than the ones by the machines in some cases, like for the kids costumes. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 Cheryldee@aol.com wrote: > Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 09:36:57 EDT > From: Cheryldee@aol.com > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Ever After > > > -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com > > In a message dated 9/16/99 10:48:04 PM Mountain Daylight Time, ches@io.com > writes: > > << So here I am trying to find the period representations of the > various pieces and cannot find anything! Help! >> > > This is where the worlds of the costume designer and the re-enactment folks > differ. My guess is that, although based on research, a lot of the wardrobe > in "Ever After" is fantasy. After all, the premise of the film is a fairy > tale. I can't imagine, for example, that that costume ball number ever > existed in real life, although Inigo Jones manifested some theatrical > costumes of that nature. And did you notice how spic and span everything > looked? Hard to manage in the days before dry cleaners. "Shakespeare in > Love", on the other hand was much less "creative" with the period. But even > here, certain liberties have been taken. When this sort of creativity is > exercised without damaging the period feel, I enjoy the look. But you might > find it hard to find the actual garment in real life. And they're mostly > made on industrial sewing machines. Just a different emphasis. When a film > does call for authenticity, a good costume designer generally becomes a > re-enactment specialist right away. Cheryl Odom, Costume Designer > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 13:13:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01966 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:13:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02825; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:27:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22673 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:24:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22666 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:24:24 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.153] (ppp153.creative.net [208.225.99.153]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08020 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:26:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990917162850.12030.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:33:16 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Books Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Sarah Toney wrote: > ... but Amazon is nice about finding OOP books >for you... my boyfriend collects OOP books and has had >great luck with Amazon. My advice, if you want out of print books, is *don't* use Amazon. Why? Because Amazon just finds them through http://www.abebooks.com then marks them up 150 per cent and charges you to do something you can do yourself. Find them on Advanced Book Exchange yourself and save money. I have ordered from four different booksellers on ABE. I'm in California, and one was a couple miles from my home, so i just picked the book up at the shop. But the other three were in Wisconsin, Rhode Island, and England. I received them all surprisingly quickly, including the one from England - i guess that particular seller sends large amounts of books to an expiditer in the US, so the shipping rate was inexpensive. A satisfied ABE user, Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 13:19:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02013 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:19:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04160; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:35:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24590 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:32:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from h4.mail.home.com (h4.mail.home.com [24.0.0.57]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24574 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:32:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990916175812.BFNL1640.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]>; Thu, 16 Sep 1999 10:58:12 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 1999 11:01:41 -0700 Subject: H-COST: gored skirts From: "R.L. Shep" To: "h-costume" CC: fred Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990916175812.BFNL1640.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" I know it is compltely out of the peiod that was being discussed - and for that reason I did not mention it before - but the discussion seems to have got more general. Gored Skirts were very popular in the early 1910s. You will find patterns for a *7 gore skirt* and another for a *13 gore skirt* in *THE GREAT WAR: Styles and Patterns of the 1910s* these are original source material. The book is available from Fred Struthers at the website below. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 13:19:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02017 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:19:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA03342; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:31:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23570 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:28:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23557 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:28:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990917182812.BFKI2543.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:28:12 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:31:47 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: men's costume From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990917182812.BFKI2543.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" I am sorry but my only reaction to that is that you feel only men who exhibit feminine qualities get AIDS. What??? AIDS is a terrible disease and it can strike anyone. The fact remains that a lot of male costumers got it and it has changed the face of the industry. If you want to make assumptions about them for contracting the disease then that is something you have to live with. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: Sarah Toney >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: men's costume >Date: Fri, Sep 17, 1999, 11:17 AM > > >-Poster: Sarah Toney > >> *That's because women just need more clothes (in any >> period)! > >Ooooh.... I beg to differ... my significant other has >more costuming that I could dream of having... he just >*has* to have a new outfit for this and a new cloak >for that and he just *can't* be seen in the same >outfit twice in a row when he meets the King! It's >amusing, actually... I have become the Queen of >accessorizing to change his outfits... ;-) > > > > >> many have this weak excuse that they can't sew. >Actually, there are some people, men or not, who >really just can't sew... they either don't see things >the way we do to be able to put the pieces together, >or they just have no desire to do the work >themselves.. I meet just as many women who feel this >way as men. > > >> Presently many of the male costumers are gone due to >> AIDS. Evenso I know of >??? I'm not sure what one has to do with the other... >please enlighten me... 'cuz from where I'm standing, >this falls right into the "only effeminet (sp?) men >sew" category and I don't think that is what was >meant. > >My 2 cents, > >Sarah > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 13:55:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02126 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:55:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07407; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:59:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29720 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:56:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29695 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:56:29 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6SNWa12328 (4155) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:55:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5f10cae0.2513e8b7@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:55:51 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: male costumers/OT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 9/17/1999 11:29:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time, rlshep@home.com writes: << I am sorry but my only reaction to that is that you feel only men who exhibit feminine qualities get AIDS. What??? AIDS is a terrible disease and it can strike anyone. The fact remains that a lot of male costumers got it and it has changed the face of the industry. If you want to make assumptions about them for contracting the disease then that is something you have to live with. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com >> The enormous toll on talented men in the performing arts is something we all need to remember. I've lost so many male friends to this scourge. I have one dear friend, a costumer, who is currently on the new protocol and doing well, but I treat every day as a gift. I don't believe that anyone on this list believes that men who costume are necessarily effeminate. I think Sarah meant that she didn't want to have given exactly that impression, and perhaps stated it without enough clarity. Given the fact that clothing was a male dominated industry until this past century - and that most of the big fashion houses are still male run, must say something. Hopefully us women can make up for lost time in the new millenium! Take care, angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "If we shadows have offended, think but this, and all is mended, That you have but slumbered here, while these visions did appear." A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 14:02:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02141 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:02:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08993; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:12:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02541 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:09:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA02527 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:09:24 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990917191650.910.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:16:50 PDT Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:16:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Fabric on eBay To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Oh, I wish I had the money... but, alas, I do not. ;-) good luck on your auction! On another note, I just went on to your web page... hmmmm... I desperately wish the pattern for that beautiful coat was available! I would make my boy buy it for me if it were in my size... but I haven't been a size 8 for years! For any of you who ARE a size 8/10, check out her web site! Great jacket to make you drool! The whole web site it gorgeous, by the way. Sarah --- Jennie Chancey wrote: > > -Poster: Jennie Chancey > > I've just put up 25 yards of white chiffon and 3.25 > yards of forest > green chiffon on eBay. The white is less than $3 > per yard, and I do not > have a reserve on either piece -- opening bid is my > "reserve." These > are new fabrics that I bought to use for a couple of > orders, only to > have the customers change their minds, so I'm > "liquidating" the fabric. > ;-) > > Thanks! > Jennie Chancey > > Here's my eBay link: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=chanceys&include=0&since=-1&sort=2 > > -- > Sense and Sensibility > http://www.sensibility.com > winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 14:09:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02169 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:09:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09971; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:20:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA04358 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:17:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA04348 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:17:32 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990917192452.26437.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:24:52 PDT Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:24:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair color To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I used this once... just a fair warning... I have blonde hair naturally (though it never stays blonde for more than a day... always red)... this dye took to my hair VERY strongly... so be careful. So, to get this to a historical nature... in what periods in history did women dye their hair and in which was this fad not commonly practised? What did they use to dye their hair? I seem to remember something from my past about hearing that Israelite women around 1 A.D. were considered "harlots" if they dyed their hair... is this true? (I know my mom still thinks it is "daring and asking for it" (whatever "it" is)) Sarah > > > >I've been considering the Clairol Natural Instincts > Black Cherry colorant, > >ever since someone told me it turned her grey hair > bright purple. Now THAT > >sounds like fun! > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 14:15:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02185 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:15:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10977; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:27:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05653 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:24:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA05635 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:24:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990917193126.3106.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:31:26 PDT Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 12:31:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: male costumers/OT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Yep, and I know that is how I came across after I re-read it... sorry, I don't put down my feelings and thoughts very well... in fact, my best friend in the whole world, captain of the football team and ex-boyfriend died of aids two years ago... my point was that because I don't know of any particular scourge of men who costume that got AIDS, I found this comment itself confused me because it sounded to ME that what was being said is that "only effeminent men sew and only effeminent men get AIDS", which from what I have read previously from you is not an opinion you would hold... thus I was looking for more info as to what was really happening... sorry it didn't come across that way! *sigh* I hate e-mail... I can lecture a room full of people and they will understand everything I said, but if I have to write it down I mess it all up... Sarah > << I am sorry but my only reaction to that is that > you feel only men who > exhibit feminine qualities get AIDS. What??? > AIDS is a terrible disease > and it can strike anyone. The fact remains that a > lot of male costumers got > it and it has changed the face of the industry. > If you want to make > assumptions about them for contracting the disease > then that is something > you have to live with. > ~!~ R.L.Shep > http://www.rlshep.com >> > > The enormous toll on talented men in the performing > arts is something we all > need to remember. I've lost so many male friends > to this scourge. I have > one dear friend, a costumer, who is currently on the > new protocol and doing > well, but I treat every day as a gift. > > I don't believe that anyone on this list believes > that men who costume are > necessarily effeminate. I think Sarah meant that she > didn't want to have > given exactly that impression, and perhaps stated it > without enough clarity. > > Given the fact that clothing was a male dominated > industry until this past > century - and that most of the big fashion houses > are still male run, must > say something. Hopefully us women can make up for > lost time in the new > millenium! > > Take care, > > angela > +++++ > Angela F. Lazear > Costumes & Custom Clothing > Theatrical Costume Design > "If we shadows have offended, think but this, > and all is mended, > That you have but slumbered here, > while these visions did appear." > A Midsummer Night's Dream; V, ii - W. Shakespeare > QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes > FULL URL: > http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 14:31:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02231 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:31:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14123; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:48:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10439 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:45:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10430 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:45:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-230-164.s164.tnt7.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [216.164.230.164]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA06616 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:45:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003101bf0146$84495480$a4e6a4d8@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:54:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > Yet I have heard many people make the assumption that the construction > seen in the 10-"gore" dress or other Greenland finds represents the > techniques used in, say, the French or English court. I think this is a > BIG mistake. So, is there any documentation for the French or English court version of this dress? I haven't been able to make the 10 gore dress that is in issue #116 of TI look good on my figure and wondered if there are other ways of achieving this dress? Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 14:37:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02246 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:37:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14888; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:55:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12170 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:52:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12150 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:52:26 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6CUSVRb9b_ (4365) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:51:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <128f9a66.2513f5d7@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:51:51 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: help with husband To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Makyn asked what period clothes she should make for a husband who says he doesn't care. My suggestion? Whatever period YOU like and think he would look best in, AND that won't make him too uncomfortable. Then, every time you tell him how great he looks he will be happy and want more clothes. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 14:57:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02262 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:57:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17251; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:14:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA16616 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:11:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from falcon.canfield.com (falcon.canfield.com [206.191.139.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16609 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:11:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Leslie (u6-16.wa.net [206.191.135.80]) by falcon.canfield.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA09153 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:19:02 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990917130030.035b8600@mail.canfield.com> X-Sender: leslie@mail.canfield.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:10:45 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Leslie Helms Subject: H-COST: Gores/godets/goodbye In-Reply-To: <199909171832.MAA24637@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Leslie Helms When I took draping class, the instructor defined "gore" as a panel running the full length of the piece. A "godet" was an inset to increase flare (and PLEASE, it's "flare" not "flair") whether it was inserted into a slit in the fabric or inserted along part of a seam's length. Generally "gores" were considered to be fairly uniform, like skirt gores; the side front piece of a princess dress was a side front piece, not a gore, although someone might describe the resulting dress as having a "six-gore skirt" because it provided an accurate description of the bias structure in that portion of the garment. I'm going to have to take a break from the list for the first time in a LONG time! I'm trying to finish my wedding dress... well, actually, I'm trying to get a proper start on the blasted thing... and the wedding is three weeks off and closing rapidly. You are all such marvellous company and such a tempting distraction that I must shut off the valve for a bit and focus on this project. I'll be back after the holocaust. Best wishes to everyone. Have fun. Leslie (You can have a "flair" for creative expression, but widening your skirts creates "flare." They are entirely different words.) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 15:01:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02277 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:01:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17903; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:18:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17479 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:15:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17466 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:15:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.82.139] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id A04D46600128; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:10:53 -0400 Message-ID: <020501bf0149$4c78f8a0$8b52ccd1@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: <19990917192452.26437.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair color Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:14:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vince Lyons" ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 3:24 PM > -Poster: Sarah Toney . > > So, to get this to a historical nature... in what > periods in history did women dye their hair and in > which was this fad not commonly practised? What did > they use to dye their hair? I seem to remember > something from my past about hearing that Israelite > women around 1 A.D. were considered "harlots" if they > dyed their hair... is this true? (I know my mom still > thinks it is "daring and asking for it" (whatever "it" > is)) > I *think* there's historical support for the use of henna. I know I read this somewhere in this vast expanse of books I own, not that I can find the documentation now of course...... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 15:04:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02282 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:04:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18339; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:21:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18423 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:18:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA18418 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:18:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Fri Sep 17 13:18:17 1999 To: "Historic Costume" Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:18:17 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Expiredinmiddle: true X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: H-COST: historic film costumes X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.36.81 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Hi, Okay I know that in a lot (most) cases costumes in historic set films are not accurate. I would assume in cases like "Ever After" they were shooting more to "awe" the audience than to please the few who would know the difference between an exact replica dress and one they had taken much liberty with. anyway, Here is the question I pose to you all.. In movies made by A&E/BBC, would you in your costuming expertise, say the costumes were more accurate? I have seen most of the period films they produce (Emma, Jane Eyre, Tess of the d'Urbervilles, The Buccaneers, Moll Flanders, ETC.) and most of them seem fairly true to form, at least to my non- professional eye. I read a lot and I "look" a lot; from paintings, vintage photos, exhibits and the like (things depicting period clothing as it was) I have found that the majority of the clothing represented in this company's films to be pretty much exact. Like I said I'm not totally positive, seeing as how I'm at best a gross amateur. I was however interested in the views of the people on this list seeing as how most of you seem to be either professionals or have been doing this for a very long time and know much about it. I ask specifically about the A&E/BBC films because they seem to be the most accurate in costuming that I have noticed (like I could be wrong on this one, lol) but also their sets and props seem to be VERY precise. My father is a collector of antique tableware and has commented at the accuracy of the dishes etc. in some of these films and I am a student of Historic restoration/Architecture history, and they are very exact when recreating interiors of buildings, in many class ranges I've noticed. anyway sorry this post was so long I expected it to be short, but I tend to babble I guess. Ever Yours, Ginnaphure ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ICQ# 41340093 AIM: Ginnaphure "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 15:09:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02287 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:09:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19043; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:27:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19721 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:24:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19708 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:24:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990917202411.BWCY13005.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:24:11 -0700 Message-ID: <37E2A383.A336FE1D@home.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:24:35 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Freezing Vinegar (was Onion skins) References: <007501bf00d2$84773400$2671fea9@gunsafes> <37E23A06.5F8430E3@home.com> <37E27C71.BB680027@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Kat & Kent wrote: > > Well, the vinegar is quite frozen solid. Now we will allow it to thaw > and see if it's still good (I'm betting on it...sure smells like > vinegar!!). Thawed fine...looks like vinegar, smells like vinegar, tastes like vinegar...must be vinegar...if anything it might be a tad stronger. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 15:22:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02296 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:22:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20605; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:39:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22587 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:36:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22579 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:36:46 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6VJD0epyEs (4407) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:36:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:36:17 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: historic film costumes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com I am not familliar with the later period styles you mentioned a la Jane Austin, but I am familliar with other series from BBC. Elizabeth R happens to be one of the best done (costuming wise) Elizabethan movies of all time IMHO. That stands to reason as both Jean Hunniset and Janet Arnold had a hand in the designing of the clothing. The Six WIves of HVIII was also very nicely done, not quite as accurate as Eliz. R but very well researched. Though these two are rather old in the way of the entertainment world, I believe it sets a precidence for the fact that BBC at least will go the extra mile and do the serious research required for the clothing of the time. Chas _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 15:40:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02333 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:40:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22989; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:58:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA26845 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:55:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26826 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:55:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id ELRDPVJP; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:54:39 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Interesting things to do with vinegar (was freezing and onion skins) Message-ID: <19990917.123350.4791.0.cley@juno.com> References: <007501bf00d2$84773400$2671fea9@gunsafes> <37E23A06.5F8430E3@home.com> <37E27C71.BB680027@home.com> <37E2A383.A336FE1D@home.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,7-10 From: cynthia j ley Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:54:39 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: cynthia j ley Slightly off topic: On the subject of vinegar.... My mother of beloved memory used to use white vinegar mixed with warm water to clean ivory. It worked very well too, even on very old pieces. The problem is I can't remember the proportions. Has anyone any ideas on this? Arlys ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 15:51:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02344 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:51:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24467; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:10:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA29585 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:06:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29573 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:06:46 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6YNLa04664 (4365) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:51:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2f2b18c.2513f5c3@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:51:31 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: AIDS and costumers To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Perhaps the confusion is that (I am assuming, here) when we talk about "costumers" on this list, we are not all referring to professional costumers, but anyone with an interest in costume. So some people might be surprised to think of AIDS having anything to do with, say, their neighbor Bob who makes uniforms for his Civil War reenacting regiment. (I know, I know, anyone can be gay or simply irresponsible, but I hope my point comes through.) I am sad to hear that AIDs took many professional costumers. I never thought about it before. But I remember about 10 years ago, when the store design and visual merchandising (professional term for store decorator) industry, which I was professionally affiliated with at the time, lost so many of its great names. I guess many creative businesses had the same loss. Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 16:08:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02364 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:08:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26174; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:26:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA03266 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:23:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw5.pacbell.net (mail-gw5.pacbell.net [206.13.28.23]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA03255 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:23:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-69-188.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.69.188]) by mail-gw5.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05823 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 14:21:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E248C3.4FC02E8D@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 13:57:27 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Canadian Iceman update References: <37E1CD5C.90C06D3B@flash.net> <37E2265C.3B545775@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, >> Let's see if I can clarify the problem (or just make it muddier). >> When using "AD" or "CE" the starting point is "0". Cynthia replied: > Er, 1, actually. There was no year zero. Ordinal numbering system. > Hence the Millenium starting in 2001. > > I agree that 1950 is hardly intuitive for "before present." Which makes > *now* "-49BP" which is rather amusing. No, that would make it 49 PP, "past present", which is even more amusing. :-D Hey, how did all this mud get in the water!?! Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 16:19:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02374 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:19:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27835; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:37:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05815 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:34:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05806 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:34:08 -0600 (MDT) From: Schmitt100@aol.com Received: from Schmitt100@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id uNMNa03915 (3998) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:31:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:31:22 EDT Subject: H-COST: crochet/tatting To: h-costume@indra.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Schmitt100@aol.com Next question (OK, so I missed de-lurkers day cuz of work, I'm making up for it now ;-) When is crocheting and tatting period? These are both arts that I am somewhat conversant in and would like to know when I can start using them in my costumes! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt So many books, so little time Patience is not passive; on the contrary, it is active; it is concentrated strength. - Edward G. Bulwer-Lytton schmitt100@aol.com ********************** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 16:35:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02388 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:35:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29990; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:53:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA09622 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:50:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09606 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:50:48 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ICFa00942 (4365) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:44:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:44:15 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: Henk's book To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Henk, I'm begging you. Please do it! I would buy it! I know dozens of people who would buy it! Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 16:45:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02399 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:45:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01724; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:01:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11039 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:57:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bunyip.flash.net (bunyip.flash.net [209.30.6.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11028 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p93.amax27.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.70.93]) by bunyip.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAB15387 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:57:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37E2B8C0.40036BA9@flash.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:55:13 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: BP (was H-COST: Canadian Iceman update - OT) References: <3.0.6.32.19990917084629.007aaab0@pop.utulsa.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette Marc Carlson wrote: > Um, no. In either AD or CE there is no year "0". That's why 2001 is the > beginning > of the next Millenium. DOH! I knew that. > And you are right, the use of 1950 as a starting date is not intuitive to > someone > who isn't trained to use it. That doesn't make it bad or wrong. It's a > system that > in its own context (that of archaeology) makes perfect sense. For that > matter, > 1 BCE as a date that's 2000 years before Right Now, or 1500 BP isn't > particularly > intuitive either. And certainly not, if the year Right Now happens to be > for you: > 5760 AM, 1420 AH, Ji-Mau (16th year in the 78th cycle), 2,451,403.5 JD, > 51,403 MJD, > or for that matter 2752 AUD or 13 Acactl. Time keeping, the perception of time, and calendar systems are interest areas for my husband so I'm well aware that "today" is vastly different depending on where you are. And, no, I don't believe that one system is right or wrong. It appeared that people were speaking past each other in an attempt at understanding and I was hoping to clarify a few points. Thanks for the explanation. --Charlene -- Eagles may soar, but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 16:46:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02403 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:46:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01983; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:03:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11261 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:58:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bunyip.flash.net (bunyip.flash.net [209.30.6.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11251 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:58:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p93.amax27.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.70.93]) by bunyip.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16809 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:58:14 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37E2B90B.7651B897@flash.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:56:28 -0500 From: Charlene Charette X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Books References: <19990917152052.17475.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Charlene Charette Sarah Toney wrote: > Women's Costume in French texts of the Eleventh and > Twelfth centuries by Eunice Rathbone Goddard Have you actually found a copy of this? I've been looking for one for quite some time with no luck. --Charlene -- Eagles may soar, but weasels aren't sucked into jet engines. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 16:55:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02416 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:55:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04180; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:12:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA14312 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:09:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14304 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:09:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem105.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.105] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11S6CE-0005n2-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 23:09:35 +0100 Message-ID: <006401bf0159$57273e50$69065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <19990917192452.26437.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair color Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:51:41 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Thanks for the book info. I was trying the wrong Amazon; Not just the Israelites; We can now get raw henna and various henna based items , due to strong trade links withe India; When It first came out here (early 70s) it was still seen as a sign of the harlot; but this died out as it became very popular. It is stiill often used by those of a certain age if they can remember seeing Jimi Hendrix, they will know what I mean;) Another favourite supposedly from history is a mixture of Chamomile and Rosemary collected fresh and made into little bags; it is purported to lighten the hair: the degree dependant on the mix. I am not sure which period it derives from; most probably very ancient. Women who worked in the Cornish tin mines during the 18 & 19 centuries used to smother their hair with the red ochre that was washed out of ore bearing lodes as mud. It left the hair a crimson red , with constant use. I am not sure that it was originally intended as a colourant but more of an antidote to small creatures as well as keeping long hair tidy in places where a hat could not be worn, in cramped and hot crawlways. The ochre mud also contained large amounts of arsenical compounds. (The average cornish "bal-maiden" would have been unfit for human consumption.) I dont recall any other instances but I am sure that it is something that is shared by many cultures through the ages Dave > > -Poster: Sarah Toney > So, to get this to a historical nature... in what > periods in history did women dye their hair and in > which was this fad not commonly practised? What did > they use to dye their hair? I seem to remember > something from my past about hearing that Israelite > women around 1 A.D. were considered "harlots" if they > dyed their hair... is this true? (I know my mom still > thinks it is "daring and asking for it" (whatever "it" > is)) > > Sarah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 17:07:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02442 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:07:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05622; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:25:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA17182 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:22:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17171 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:22:05 -0600 (MDT) From: Schmitt100@aol.com Received: from Schmitt100@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id uTENa00940 (3998) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:29:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3a17124e.2513febc@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:29:48 EDT Subject: H-COST: starting a library... To: h-costume@indra.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Schmitt100@aol.com I know this sort of question has been asked before, but... if I were to be starting a costuming library, what books would be "must haves"? My areas of interest at this moment are Elizabethan, early Crusades in Jerusalem, and Edwardian (probably enough for now!) So, what would you suggest? I'm compiling a wish list for the start of Christmas shoppers everywhere! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt So many books, so little time (and adding to them :-) Patience is not passive; on the contrary, it is active; it is concentrated strength. - Edward G. Bulwer-Lytton schmitt100@aol.com ********************** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 17:28:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02450 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:28:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07937; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:46:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21437 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:43:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21429 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:43:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gia-g (dialup306.serv.net [207.207.70.199]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA27890 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:43:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <011001bf015e$24664920$c746cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Books Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:44:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" Well, my two pence... >Women's Costume in French texts of the Eleventh and >Twelfth centuries by Eunice Rathbone Goddard Text only. I found it most interesting as a starting point for research in fiber related information, too. >Handbook of Medieval costume by C. Willett Cunnington Good general information. Few (if any) primary source pictures; I believe the line drawings are renderings of existing pictures/portraits/scuptures/etc. Still useful. > >Period Costume for Stage and Screen: Patterns for >Women's Dress, Medieval - 1500 by Jean Hunnisett > Useful for pattern making, but the methods of construction are usually modern techniques. You might find it useful, if you plan on only using modern sewing techniques. > >20,000 Years of Fashion: The History of Costume and >Personal Adornment by Francois Leon Louis Boucher A must for an overview of fashions. I think the text does touch upon the issues of fashions that are specific for countries as well. > >After A Fashion: How to Reproduce, Restore and Wear >Vintage Styles by Frances Grimble LOL! Since Fran is a list member...Fran...I suppose you could let her know about your book.. *g* Gia/Giacinta _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 17:30:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02456 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:30:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08164; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:48:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA21729 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:45:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21719 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:45:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id PAA14432 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:42:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E2C47B.633ECDFB@best.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:45:15 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: starting a library... References: <3a17124e.2513febc@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press Schmitt100@aol.com wrote: > -Poster: Schmitt100@aol.com > > I know this sort of question has been asked before, but... > if I were to be starting a costuming library, what books would be "must > haves"? My areas of interest at this moment are Elizabethan, early Crusades > in Jerusalem, and Edwardian (probably enough for now!) So, what would you > suggest? I'm compiling a wish list for the start of Christmas shoppers > everywhere! > > * For Edwardian women's patterns, you could try our titles _The Voice of Fashion_ and _The Edwardian Modiste_ (details on http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm). Allan Terry _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 17:31:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02464 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:31:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08359; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:50:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA22112 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:47:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22105 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:47:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA13457 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:47:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA21779 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:47:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:47:24 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: starting a library... In-Reply-To: <3a17124e.2513febc@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed Let's see...I can help out on the Elizabethan. Patterns of Fashion: the Cut and Construction of Men and Women's Clothing 1560-1600 by Janet Arnold is positively essential to serious Elizabethan clothing. other good Elizabethan books include: Visual History of 16th Century Costume, by Jane Ashelford (composed entirely of pictures w/ text of 16th century portraits, brasses & sketches) Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd, by Janet Arnold (Expensive, but considered the bible of Elizabethan Costume) Period Costume for Stage and Screen 1500-1800, by Jean Hunnisett (looks at it from a theatrical costume perspective, but wonderful pattern layouts & construction info for Elizabethan bodices & clothing) Tudor Costume, by Herbert Norris (Not the most accurate of researchers...but has a great number of pictures and a very wide-ranging eye, covering peasants, carriages, shoes, jewelry & headwear as well as traditional 16th c. Costume. Useful in conjunction with more reliable references) Tailor's Pattern Book, by Juan de' Alcega (It's back in print! A wonderful facsimile of a tailor's pattern & layout manual from 1589. Invaluable when it comes to figuring out how things were cut.) Vecellio's Renaissance Costume (small, cheap book, with all of the costume woodcuts of Vecellio, a 16th century guy with an eye for costume. Good for regional dress detail.) Costume in the Drama of Shakespeare & His Contemporaries (out of print & hard to find, but once I read it I couldn't believe I'd managed without it. Info on fabric types & costume terms & colors that I haven't found anywhere else.) There's really no substitute for looking at the original pictures. Books on any of the below artists are good to look at: Hans Holbein (Tudor, English) Hans Eworth (mid 16th Century) Agnolo Bronzino (Earlier 16th c., Italian Antonias Mor (Spanish, later 16th C) Lucas Cranach (German, earlier 16th c) Alonzo Coello (Spanish, later 16th c) Francois Clouet (French, mid 16th c) Master of the Countess of Warwick (English, mid 16th c) the following are very hard to find and expensive, but worth their weight in gold: The Anatomy of Abuses, by Phillip Stubbes (ed. J Furnival, 1873) (This Elizabethan treatise contains period descriptions of costume which are quoted extensively in almost all of the works listed above. ) The Milanese Tailor's Handbook, pub. Querini-Stampalia Library, in Venice (A facsimile of an amazing book containing color pictures of clothing and pattern layouts for them, equestrian trappings / patterns, beds & pavilions & patterns, etc.) Whew! I won't list the articles, or else I'll never get home. ;) Drea On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 Schmitt100@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: Schmitt100@aol.com > > I know this sort of question has been asked before, but... > if I were to be starting a costuming library, what books would be "must > haves"? My areas of interest at this moment are Elizabethan, early Crusades > in Jerusalem, and Edwardian (probably enough for now!) So, what would you > suggest? I'm compiling a wish list for the start of Christmas shoppers > everywhere! > > ********************** > Rebecca Schmitt > So many books, so little time (and adding to them :-) > > Patience is not passive; on the contrary, it is active; it is concentrated > strength. > - Edward G. Bulwer-Lytton > > schmitt100@aol.com > ********************** > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 17:36:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02468 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:36:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08920; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:54:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA22965 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:51:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22953 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:51:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id PAA18297 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:49:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E2C5EB.AC1795FC@best.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:51:23 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Books References: <011001bf015e$24664920$c746cfcf@gia-g> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press > > >After A Fashion: How to Reproduce, Restore and Wear > >Vintage Styles by Frances Grimble > > LOL! Since Fran is a list member...Fran...I suppose you could let her know > about your book.. *g* I can't pretend to an objective view though. Fran > > > Gia/Giacinta > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 17:41:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02478 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:41:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09363; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:59:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA23860 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:56:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23839 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:56:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.45] (ell262.acadia.net [205.217.210.118]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA25562 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:05:36 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:55:23 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: Elizabeth R Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Janet did not design clothing for Elizabeth R, and she was always very careful to point that out to people. She helped make the ruffs, which was pretty much a lost art at the time of the filming. <> Unfortunately, it is a long time ago that ER and Six Wives were made, and times have changed considerably. Not the least in that BBC disbanded its costume department several years ago. De borah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 18:12:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02513 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:12:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12451; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:30:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28893 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:27:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28886 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:27:20 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) id QAA16545 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:27:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909172327.QAA16545@eclipse.pacifier.com> Received: from ip219.van19.pacifier.com(216.65.141.219), claiming to be "grendal2" via SMTP by smtp.pacifier.com, id smtpdBAAnWaGlG; Fri Sep 17 16:27:10 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:29:57 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: crochet/tatting Priority: normal In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > When is crocheting and tatting period? These are both arts that I am somewhat > conversant in and would like to know when I can start using them in my > costumes! So what do you mean by "period." Both are very common in the 19th Century. (Even my grandfather tatted.) As far as further back, there's a lot of controversy. Crochet seems to have come into being during the 18th Century and was in fairly common use by the end of that Century. Tatting may have started a little earlier but again did not come into prominence in the form we recognize until about the same time. Neither were called by those names when they began, which is part of the problem. Part of the controversy is the tools used. Hooks like those for crochet have been around for a lot longer than the methods have. They were used for joinings in weavings and lace. Things that look very much like tatting shuttles were also used for weaving. Some people use the existance of the tools as evidence bringing the styles back to the 16th Century or even earlier. However, I don't believe they were done any earlier than mid17th Century at best. Certainly the laces produced with tatting and crochet don't look like either needle lace or bobbin lace during pre1650 times. There were macrame laces which are also knotted laces, but again, the pieces produced with crochet and tatting don't look like these earlier macrame pieces. Crocheting can be done in a way which makes it look like naalbinding and knitting, which were much earlier styles. A lot of groups will accept tatting and crochet lace styles for things like Arachne's Web, even if they aren't pre1650. They just don't pass muster in costume contests and the like. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 18:12:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02517 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:12:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12455; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:30:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA28884 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:27:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28878 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:27:17 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) id QAA16508 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909172327.QAA16508@eclipse.pacifier.com> Received: from ip219.van19.pacifier.com(216.65.141.219), claiming to be "grendal2" via SMTP by smtp.pacifier.com, id smtpdAAAmWaGlG; Fri Sep 17 16:27:08 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 16:29:57 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Books Priority: normal In-reply-to: <45ea09cb.2513c132@aol.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > This was my text book when I was in college [1975-79] and the prose > is...er...dull...to say the least. My only other complaint is if you open up > this tome in the middle, you will find you're only to about 1550! It has > aprox. 200 pages before you even get to the 12th century and yet covers the > entire 20th century...with it's fast changing fashions...in about 10 pages! > What's up wi'that?! Too many pages of stone age clothes! The newer versions have more 20th Century. However, it's strong point is in the pre20th Century pages. Dull is probably right, but what costumer really reads all the drivel they print in the text part. They are merely interpreting what they see in the pictures (which might not be a valid interpretation.) If you want books with lots on more recent times, books with names like "100 years of fashion" than Boucher's "20,000 years of Fashion" make much more sense! Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 18:17:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02544 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:17:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12948; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:35:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29813 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:32:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29805 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:32:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem8.fred.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.136] helo=herimats) by mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11S7UI-0003mb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 00:32:19 +0100 Message-ID: <003401bf0164$e6369f40$ae075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <199909171755.TAA08568@worldonline.nl> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re H-Cost: costuming and haircolour Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 00:28:54 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Henk, If you want to create a larger advance market in the UK; I would suggest an article for Military Illustrated may be a worthwhile "teaser" Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters > > -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" > > Y'all probably know we have our own business and a busy one it is, so > there's not much time for writing. But... as I can't do without, I've begun > a series of articles about my period's clothing in our living history > society's magazine Cronike. These are meant to be included in the costume > handbook for the 1250-1350 period. I do research on small aspects of > costume (linings, cloth breadths and prices, linen cottes, dressing up to > the climate, hats, etc) and because they represent current trends within > the society or because I get asked questions about certain aspects of > clothing. Just last week I talked to Pauline about it and the idea started > taking hold of us of reworking and translating this handbook into an > english costume book, as there is probably a larger market for it in the > anglo speaking world than in the dutch-speaking one. > > You'll have to be patient though. It's a slow process and I'm learning and > researching everyday lately. > > Henk > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 18:38:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02585 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:38:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15380; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:57:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03223 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:53:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03212 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:53:48 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6CJNa25313 (3858) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:53:14 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: AIDS and costumers To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/17/1999 5:09:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Gaelscot@aol.com writes: << But I remember about 10 years ago, when the store design and visual merchandising (professional term for store decorator) industry, which I was professionally affiliated with at the time, lost so many of its great names. >> All the arts have. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 18:42:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02593 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:42:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15766; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:01:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA03783 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:57:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03778 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:57:57 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6PNU0jESzR (3858) for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8fa1ebe2.25142f5d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:57:17 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Books To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/17/1999 7:29:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kat@grendal.rain.com writes: << Dull is probably right, but what costumer really reads all the drivel they print in the text part. >> I know what you mean. But I suggest everyone read Janet Arnold's texts....not just the descriptions of the patterns she's taken but the front and back of the books as well. Great stuff! So too for Norah Waugh's works. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 19:34:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02649 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:34:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19487; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:53:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA10624 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:47:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10612 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:47:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-86-131.s131.tnt6.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.86.131]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA00835 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:47:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00b001bf016f$129956e0$8356accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <19990917192452.26437.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> <006401bf0159$57273e50$69065cc3@herimats> Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair color Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:45:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" According to my notes from my costume history class... Henna was used to dye the wigs for the Egyptians. Henna can be purchased at local health food stores. I have to admit I tired it once, and I will NEVER do it again. I am allergeric to the ammonia in most permanent dyes. Someone suggested that I try henna. My husband dyes my hair because I have three feet of it. He also washes it for me. :) We made the mixture according to the directions on the box. I really do not suggest anyone try this product... The mixture is like a mud and is VERY heavy (weight wise). We kept it on my hair for the recommended time, which seemed for ever. My husband has washed and dyed my hair for the past ten years. He said if I ever try using this henna again, he will leave me (he was pretty mad). It is difficult to apply and very difficult to remove this mud like substance from your hair. The henna really did a poor job of dying. I was very dissatisified. I have now found a dye that is without ammonia and am very satisifed! Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 19:49:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02672 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:49:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA20534; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:07:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA12331 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:02:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sisscoe.sisnet.ssku.k12.ca.us (sisscoe.sisnet.ssku.k12.ca.us [198.189.71.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12319 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:02:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbrown (fj-d157.sisqtel.net [207.135.211.157]) by sisscoe.sisnet.ssku.k12.ca.us (8.8.8/(Not!)) with SMTP id SAA18746 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:02:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002001bf0171$c6b758a0$9dd387cf@cbrown> From: "Craig B. Brown" To: References: <37E1CD5C.90C06D3B@flash.net> <37E2265C.3B545775@thibault.org> <37E248C3.4FC02E8D@pacbell.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Canadian Iceman update Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:04:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Craig B. Brown" Hello all... The "timely" discussion has been fascinating. Dates (even months within years) can be so important when costuming. Does everyone know that "millennium" is spelled with 2 "n's"? I'm really not being uppity or anything - our advertising flyer for the play our theater group is doing in December ALMOST went out with only one "n" and someone was kind enough to point it out to me... Thanks. Cindy ----- Original Message ----- From: Dietmar To: Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 6:57 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Canadian Iceman update > > -Poster: Dietmar > > Greetings, > > >> Let's see if I can clarify the problem (or just make it muddier). > >> When using "AD" or "CE" the starting point is "0". > > Cynthia replied: > > > Er, 1, actually. There was no year zero. Ordinal numbering system. > > Hence the Millenium starting in 2001. > > > > I agree that 1950 is hardly intuitive for "before present." Which makes > > *now* "-49BP" which is rather amusing. > > No, that would make it 49 PP, "past present", which is even more amusing. :-D > > Hey, how did all this mud get in the water!?! > > Dietmar > > > "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; > over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 20:24:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02714 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:24:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23011; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:41:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA16438 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:36:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16422 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:36:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990918013613.GGZM13005.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:36:13 -0700 Message-ID: <37E2ECA4.70CE8A3F@home.com> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:36:36 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair color References: <19990917192452.26437.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> <006401bf0159$57273e50$69065cc3@herimats> <00b001bf016f$129956e0$8356accf@e4c2n6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Penny Ladnier wrote: > > Henna can be purchased at local health food stores. I have to admit I > tired it once, and I will NEVER do it again. I am allergeric to the > ammonia in most permanent dyes. Someone suggested that I try henna. > My husband dyes my hair because I have three feet of it. He also > washes it for me. :) We made the mixture according to the directions > on the box. I really do not suggest anyone try this product... The > mixture is like a mud and is VERY heavy (weight wise). We kept it on > my hair for the recommended time, which seemed for ever. My husband > has washed and dyed my hair for the past ten years. He said if I ever > try using this henna again, he will leave me (he was pretty mad). It > is difficult to apply and very difficult to remove this mud like > substance from your hair. The henna really did a poor job of > dying. I was very dissatisified. My hair is only 1/3rd down my back so my experience was different. Yes, it *is* like mud...something I appreciated since it meant that I could see what I had or had not covered. I used the Egyptian Henna brand (in a motif container). I have used it a number of times over the years and found that the biggest key to removing the henna is to use a sprayer (if at all possible) and to use lots and lots of hot water (since I take very hot showers this wasn't a hardship for me. First I would get out as much as I could at the sink and then I would wash my hair. I liked the shade I got from it but have found another commercial product which gives me a shade closer to my younger shade of red. You can also make it up as a rinse which should just add red highlights (depending on one's own hair of course!!). Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 20:31:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA02729 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:31:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23899; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:49:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17555 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:45:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17524 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 19:44:59 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.177] (ppp177.creative.net [208.225.99.177]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA24506 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:46:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00b001bf016f$129956e0$8356accf@e4c2n6> References: <19990917192452.26437.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> <006401bf0159$57273e50$69065cc3@herimats> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 18:53:57 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair color Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net >-Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > >Henna can be purchased at local health food stores. Henna can also be purchased at drug stores, as well as beauty supply stores. >I really do not >suggest anyone try this product... The mixture is like a mud and is VERY >heavy (weight wise). We kept it on my hair for the recommended time, which >seemed for ever. My husband has washed and dyed my hair for the past ten >years. He said if I ever try using this henna again, he will leave me (he >was pretty mad). It is difficult to apply and very difficult to remove this >mud like substance from your hair. The henna really did a poor job of >dying. I was very dissatisified. My hair isn't as long, only a bit below the, errr, "crack in my a**", about 2 feet, i'm guessing. I have used henna off and on since 1973. I don't think it's that bad. Of course, we each have our own personal experiences. Henna is powdered leaves (and stems?) which looks medium green powder. You mix it with hot water, and it starts to turn red-brown. Apply while still warm. Yes, it is a lot like a mud pack on your hair. I think it's kind of fun, but it is messy. I put a wrapping of toilet paper around my hairline from behind one ear to the other, across my forehead, to catch some of the drips. Then i put on a plastic "shower cap" over my henna packed hair (lightweight disposables from the beauty supply store made for hair dying). And finally i wrap my head with a towel to hold in the warmth. Because my hair is dark brown, i sometimes sleep with it on - at the least i leave it on for a couple hours so i can get maximum color. I am fond of the smell and it makes my hair a nice warm dark reddish tone. It doesn't bleach hair, so if one's hair is dark, it will not lighten it. I have a few white hairs now and these become a rich red. It also makes my hair fluffier and fuller. It doesn't burn the scalp the way many commercial dyes do, but one has to have patience with it - it's just an herb and not as quick acting as chemicals. It also takes a while to wash out. If one is extremely fastidious, one may find the herbal matter coming out of one's hair a bit disconcerting. I always do this in the shower. Trying to do it in a sink or the bath would be problematic. My daughter and i do each other's hair a couple times a year. We've henna'ed each other several times. We also use Clairol Natural Instincts, as i mentioned in another post. Every once in a while Manic Panic or Punky Colors or other similar products, but we aren't really satisfied with these last, as one pretty much has to bleach one's hair before using to get good color, and since we both have long dark hair, bleaching is not really a good idea (we'd end up with heads of hay :-) So, i'm another satisfied henna user. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 22:02:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02823 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:02:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01820; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:21:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA28358 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:18:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28349 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:18:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA25290 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:18:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-245.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.245]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA22631 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:18:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001c01bf0185$85fa1320$4e2efea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Freezing Vinegar (was Onion skins) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:25:55 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > >Michelle wrote: >> >> In order for the dye to take, you have to add vinegar. I would be >> worried that the vinegar wouldn't freeze well. It is cheap enough to >> make, I wouldn't spend the money paying the electric bill to keep it >> frozen. > >Well, it's not in my book _Will It Freeze?: An A to Z Guide to Foods >that Freeze_ by Joan Hood so my dh has put a half cup into the freezer >to see how it does. We shall let you know the results of our >experiment. Wine vinegar is mentioned in one of the entries (how to >freeze cooked cucumbers). > >Kat Since alcohol and vinegar are closely related, my guess is that it wouldn't freeze. Let us know your results though! Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 22:25:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02831 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:25:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03686; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:41:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA01021 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:38:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01008 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:38:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.164] (sdts11-164.znet.net [207.167.66.164]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id UAA23095 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:38:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37E2B8C0.40036BA9@flash.net> References: <3.0.6.32.19990917084629.007aaab0@pop.utulsa.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:34:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: BP (was H-COST: Canadian Iceman update - OT) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >Marc Carlson wrote: > >> Um, no. In either AD or CE there is no year "0". That's why 2001 is the >> beginning >> of the next Millenium. Um, no its not. Jan1, 2000 is the beginning of the new millenium, but this is way too off topic for this list... Anyone curious needs to review some graphs and mathmatics... Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 22:26:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02835 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:26:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03682; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:41:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA01007 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:38:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00995 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:38:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.164] (sdts11-164.znet.net [207.167.66.164]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id UAA23084 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:38:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <10c2bc74.25139df9@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 20:22:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentatry was: Ever After Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >> << So here I am trying to find the period representations of the >> various pieces and cannot find anything! Help! >> The bulk of the costumes in "Ever After" were based on very early 16th c Italians, and a few of the women's gowns were fairly decent renditions of German styles. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 22:46:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02880 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:46:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05186; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:04:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA03634 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:01:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03627 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:01:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA15185 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-139.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.139]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA17683 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <008401bf018b$8efd2560$4e2efea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:09:08 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Can anyone give me a link for this "Greenland" gown? Excuse me if I missed it earlier. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 22:50:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02895 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:50:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05390; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:08:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04111 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:05:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.134]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04083 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:05:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.net (ip139.an1-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.12.139]) by penguin.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26083 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:05:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E2AD45.33F276FC@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 17:06:15 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: historic costume Subject: H-COST: Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Laurel Wilson Just to add to the person who mentioned ordering it from Amazon, Barnes and Noble on-line is also taking orders, suggesting they will be getting it in around October 1 (don't know how accurate this is). Cost is $35.00 plus shipping. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 22:52:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02902 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:52:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05659; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:11:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04402 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:07:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04389 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:07:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA18131 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-139.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.139]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA21399 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009701bf018c$76413f60$4e2efea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair color Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:15:36 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >----- Original Message ----- >Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 3:24 PM >> -Poster: Sarah Toney . >> >> So, to get this to a historical nature... in what >> periods in history did women dye their hair and in >> which was this fad not commonly practised? What did >> they use to dye their hair>> > Vince wrote: >I *think* there's historical support for the use of henna. I know I read >this somewhere in this vast expanse of books I own, not that I can find the >documentation now of course...... I agree on this. Henna for red and Walnut for brown. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 22:55:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02906 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:55:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05921; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:13:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04819 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:10:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04794 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:10:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA19414 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-139.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.139]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA23019 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:10:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00a401bf018c$dd820c40$4e2efea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Interesting things to do with vinegar (was freezing and onion skins) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:18:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Look in a natural cleaning book for window cleaning recipes. I'll research it here if you don't have any books. I have quite a few. Let me know. Michelle >-Poster: cynthia j ley > >Slightly off topic: > >On the subject of vinegar.... > >My mother of beloved memory used to use white vinegar mixed with warm >water to clean ivory. It worked very well too, even on very old pieces. >The problem is I can't remember the proportions. Has anyone any ideas on >this? > > > Arlys > >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 23:08:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02921 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 23:08:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07025; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:26:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06036 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:21:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06027 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:21:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA23989 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:21:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-139.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.139]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28796 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:21:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00d801bf018e$51f8b1e0$4e2efea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair color Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:28:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > >-Poster: "Penny Ladnier" We >made the mixture according to the directions on the box. I really do not >suggest anyone try this product... The mixture is like a mud and is VERY >heavy (weight wise). We kept it on my hair for the recommended time, which >seemed for ever. The henna really did a poor job of dying. I was very dissatisified. >Later... Penny There is more than one way to use henna. If you want dramatic results, you have to make mud. A much easier way to use it is to put it into your conditioner. Every time you use the conditioner your hair will be treated a little bit more, gradually coloring your hair. Henna only works if your hair is pale enough in color to take the red. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 17 23:42:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02952 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 23:42:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09248; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 23:01:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA09635 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:56:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09624 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:56:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA09178 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:56:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-139.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.139]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA17831 for ; Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00df01bf0193$458f4220$4e2efea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "costume list" Subject: H-COST: veggie dyes Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 22:04:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00DC_01BF0158.985636C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01BF0158.985636C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I haven't forgotten about all of you that asked for the recipes. I got = too tired last night to look for them. I have two different versions. I will give you both combined. Have fun! Onion skins: 1 large 12 by13 produce bag full of dried skins 4 inch squares of nylon stockings, one for each egg string or rubber bands vinegar (one tablespoon to 2 quarts, or 2 teaspoons to each egg. = Experiment.) This makes a golden rich brown. Simmer onion skins with enough water to cover them. 2 quarts water for = 20 minutes is a good starting point. The longer you simmer, the darker = the dye. I simmer until they are transparent, then take them out and put = fresh ones in to get the dye as dark as I can. Add about 1 tablespoon = of vinegar.=20 To put impressions on the eggs, put leaves on the surface (heavy paper = works too) and wrap carefully with the cut piece of nylon stocking. Tie = the stocking closed over the egg with rubber bands or string. The dye = will color around the leaf, leaving the covered part white. Important: = When choosing leaves from your garden, don't pick poison ones. I use = Rose, Strawberry, Fennel, Italian Parsley,etc. Make sure they are = edible. At this point you have options. 1-put raw eggs into the dye and simmer them without removing the = onion skins. This makes a speckled effect. The eggs cook as they dye. 2-strain the mixture (or scoop out the skins). Simmer the eggs, = getting a uniform color and cook them at the same time.=20 3-strain the mixture (or scoop out the skins). dunk the cooked = eggs in the mixture to color them as you would regular easter egg dye. = You can also refrigerate the mixture and leave cooked eggs in it for a = day. (if you refrigerate the mixture, it is only good for a few days. It = will mold.) The recipe also calls for vegetable oil. It says to put a light coat = on the egg after it is colored. I have never done this and it worked = fine. This is to make it shine. To get yellow use carrot tops. This below is how the recipe reads but, = generally follow recipe above. Simmer 4 bunches of carrot tops in 2 quarts of water for 40 minutes. = Strain. Add 1 tablespoon vinegar, lower eggs and simmer for 20 minutes. = Remove eggs and cool but do not unwrap. Cool the dye solution and = return the wrapped eggs to the solution for 4 hours or longer. Dark brown (chocolate), use coffee right out of the pot. Tan, use tea. Pale green, spinach leaves. Pale yellow, dandelion flowers. Pink, cherries or beets. Bluish purple, red cabbage or blueberries. For any of the above colors, loosely follow onion skin recipe.=20 Michelle =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01BF0158.985636C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I haven't forgotten about all of you = that asked=20 for the recipes.  I got too tired last night to look for = them.
I have two different versions. I = will give you=20 both combined. Have fun!
 
Onion skins:
  1 large = 12 by13=20 produce bag full of dried skins
  4 inch squares of nylon stockings, one for = each=20 egg
  string or rubber bands
  vinegar (one tablespoon to 2 quarts, or 2 = teaspoons to=20 each egg. Experiment.)
 
   This makes a golden = rich=20 brown.
Simmer onion skins with enough water = to cover=20 them. 2 quarts  water for 20 minutes is a good starting point. The = longer=20 you simmer, the darker the dye. I simmer until they are transparent, = then take=20 them out and put fresh ones in to get the dye as dark as I can.  = Add about=20 1 tablespoon of vinegar.
  To put = impressions on=20 the eggs, put leaves on the surface (heavy paper works too) and wrap = carefully=20 with the cut piece of nylon stocking. Tie the stocking closed over the = egg with=20 rubber bands or string. The dye will color around the leaf, leaving the = covered=20 part white. Important: When choosing leaves from your garden, don't pick = poison=20 ones. I use Rose, Strawberry, Fennel, Italian Parsley,etc. Make sure = they are=20 edible.
  At this point you have=20 options.
       = 1-put raw=20 eggs into the dye and simmer them without removing the onion skins. This = makes a=20 speckled effect. The eggs cook as they dye.
       2-strain the mixture (or = scoop out=20 the skins). Simmer the eggs, getting a uniform color and cook them at = the same=20 time.
       3-strain the = mixture (or=20 scoop out the skins).  dunk the  cooked eggs in the mixture to = color=20 them as you would regular easter egg dye. You can also refrigerate the = mixture=20 and leave cooked eggs in it for a day. (if you refrigerate the mixture, = it is=20 only good for a few days. It will mold.)
   The recipe also calls for vegetable = oil. It says=20 to put a light coat on the egg after it is colored. I have never done = this and=20 it worked fine. This is to make it shine.
 
To get yellow use carrot tops. This = below is how=20 the recipe reads but, generally follow recipe above.
 
  Simmer = 4 bunches of=20 carrot tops in 2 quarts of water for 40 minutes. Strain. Add 1 = tablespoon=20 vinegar, lower eggs and simmer for 20 minutes. Remove eggs and cool but = do not=20 unwrap.  Cool the dye solution and return the wrapped eggs to the = solution=20 for 4 hours or longer.
 
Dark brown (chocolate), use coffee right out of the=20 pot.
Tan, use tea.
Pale green, spinach = leaves.
Pale yellow, = dandelion=20 flowers.
Pink, cherries or beets.
Bluish purple, red cabbage or = blueberries.
  For any = of the above=20 colors, loosely follow onion skin recipe.
 
Michelle
  
          &nbs= p;            = ;            =         =20
------=_NextPart_000_00DC_01BF0158.985636C0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 01:16:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03158 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 01:16:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA13821; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 00:33:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA18905 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 00:28:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA18888 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 00:28:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-135.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.250.135]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id QAA27142 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:28:33 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199909180628.QAA27142@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: H-COST: Far Horizons Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:06:54 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" Just been watching Far Horizons (set in North America, early 1800s). It is comforting to know that even Edith Head could not get velvet to work for men's tailoring! -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 04:45:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA32128 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:45:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20789; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:02:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA28153 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:59:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f34.hotmail.com [207.82.250.45]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA28148 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:59:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 96330 invoked by uid 0); 18 Sep 1999 09:58:51 -0000 Message-ID: <19990918095851.96329.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.34.83 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 02:58:51 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.34.83] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Henk's book Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 02:58:51 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Hullo Henk I wholeheartedly agree with Gail. Please do. I'd buy several copies; keep one for myself, and send the rest out as gifts (to friends and to various libraries). BTW - Thank you for your Spanish costume info. It really helped. Lonna >From: Gaelscot@aol.com >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume-digest@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: Re: Henk's book >Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 15:44:15 EDT > > >-Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > > > >Henk, I'm begging you. Please do it! I would buy it! I know dozens of >people >who would buy it! > >Gail Finke > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 05:21:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA32146 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 05:21:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21975; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:38:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA05613 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:35:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f227.hotmail.com [207.82.251.118]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA05607 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:35:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 44838 invoked by uid 0); 18 Sep 1999 10:35:08 -0000 Message-ID: <19990918103508.44837.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.34.83 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:35:08 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.34.83] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Thanks for help on Spanish costume question Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 03:35:08 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Hullo all Just remembered that other folks helped with this; not just Henk. Many thanks to you all. Please forgive my lapse. Brain has not been in top form lately due to a bit of insomnia. Am going to try and remedy that right now. Thanks again Lonna ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 05:31:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA32152 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 05:31:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA22314; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:49:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA06633 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:46:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pa.scotland.net (pa1.scotland.net [194.247.64.132]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06618 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 04:46:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [148.176.235.198] (helo=default) by pa.scotland.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11SI0U-0001Nb-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:46:14 +0100 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:46:18 +0100 Message-ID: <01BF01CB.6BD25AC0.Elizabeth@witchwood.prestel.co.uk> From: Elizabeth To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Blackwork Cuffs and collar (fwd) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 13:03:04 +0100 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth I am so behind on my email it is untrue. I have recently been to the V&A to look at their blackwork collection. I have a rough estimate of the thread count, it really was too fine to count accurately through the glass, of approximately 50 threads per inch but this is probably a little too small, it could be as much as 100 threads per inch! Warning do not attempt to count this I nearly went cross eyed attempting to do it! The cloth was definitely linen. Elizabeth http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/witchwood/index.html > I am thinking of doing a set of Blackwork cuffs and a collar for Kingdom A&S. I > have a picture of a Holbein painting that I am going to use as a pattern. > > Does anyone know what type of cloth and the thread count that would have been > used? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 06:10:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA32174 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 06:10:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23616; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 05:28:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA09725 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 05:25:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09711 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 05:25:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.123.167]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990918112541.QAUT24677.mta1-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:25:41 +0100 Message-ID: <37E3D944.5856@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:26:12 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair color References: <19990917192452.26437.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Sarah Toney wrote: > > -Poster: Sarah Toney > > I used this once... just a fair warning... I have > blonde hair naturally (though it never stays blonde > for more than a day... always red)... this dye took to > my hair VERY strongly... so be careful. > > So, to get this to a historical nature... in what > periods in history did women dye their hair and in > which was this fad not commonly practised? What did > they use to dye their hair? I seem to remember > something from my past about hearing that Israelite > women around 1 A.D. were considered "harlots" if they > dyed their hair... is this true? (I know my mom still > thinks it is "daring and asking for it" (whatever "it" > is)) > > Sarah > > > > > > >I've been considering the Clairol Natural Instincts > > Black Cherry colorant, > > >ever since someone told me it turned her grey hair > > bright purple. Now THAT > > >sounds like fun! > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME It was very popular in the Italian Renaissance period for venetian women to dye their hair blonde using urine which is the best source of ammonia. Saffron has also been used for hair dyes and I once read an account although at the moment I can't remember where that privet was used in england during the tudor period for redhair I have tried this and it works Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 06:11:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA32178 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 06:11:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23674; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 05:28:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA09753 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 05:25:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA09745 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 05:25:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.123.167]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990918112548.QAVG24677.mta1-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:25:48 +0100 Message-ID: <37E3DC21.4C5C@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:38:25 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: historic film costumes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dawn Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke wrote: > > -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" > > Hi, > Okay I know that in a lot (most) cases costumes in > historic set films are not accurate. I would assume > in cases like "Ever After" they were shooting more > to "awe" the audience than to please the few who > would know the difference between an exact replica dress and one they had taken much liberty with. > anyway, Here is the question I pose to you all.. > > In movies made by A&E/BBC, would you in your costuming > expertise, say the costumes were more accurate? > > I have seen most of the period films they produce > (Emma, Jane Eyre, Tess of the d'Urbervilles, The > Buccaneers, Moll Flanders, ETC.) and most of them > seem fairly true to form, at least to my non- > professional eye. I read a lot and I "look" a lot; > from paintings, vintage photos, exhibits and the > like (things depicting period clothing as it was) > I have found that the majority of the clothing > represented in this company's films to be pretty > much exact. Like I said I'm not totally positive, > seeing as how I'm at best a gross amateur. I was > however interested in the views of the people on > this list seeing as how most of you seem to be > either professionals or have been doing this for a > very long time and know much about it. I ask specifically about the A&E/BBC films because they > seem to be the most accurate in costuming that I > have noticed (like I could be wrong on this one, > lol) but also their sets and props seem to be VERY > precise. My father is a collector of antique > tableware and has commented at the accuracy of the > dishes etc. in some of these films and I am a > student of Historic restoration/Architecture history, > and they are very exact when recreating interiors > of buildings, in many class ranges I've noticed. > anyway sorry this post was so long I expected it > to be short, but I tend to babble I guess. > > Ever Yours, > Ginnaphure > > ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ > ICQ# 41340093 > AIM: Ginnaphure > > "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." > > Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME The one thing you can guarantee on any film or tv historical drama is that the military uniforms won't be right, including Sharpe,( Crimean War Hussars turn up fighting the Battle of Waterloo), 1815 Lifeguards as Irish 1790's Militia (Aristocrats) etc etc. Even when military advisors are employed such as Colonel Peter Walton on the BBC's last version of Pride and Predudice their suggestions are often ignored. I made the prototype Royal Marine Uniform for Hornblower (piccie on my website) because John Mollo was determined to have an accurate uniform to start off with which could then be copied for cheap in an east end sweatshop. I also made an accurate arming doublet for Dougray Scott for Ever After and believe me the date/ country influence spex were pretty widespread. When I made the padded akhetons etc for Zefferelli's Hamlet the designer took them away to 'trim them up' and make them look butch?!!!! Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 07:04:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA32249 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 07:04:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25304; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 06:21:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA14122 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 06:18:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA14116 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 06:18:44 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909181218.GAA14116@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 10202 invoked from network); 18 Sep 1999 06:18:44 -0600 Received: from ts26-45.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.159) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 06:18:44 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentary was: Ever After Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 06:26:01 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" OK, but has anyone ever seen or heard of the undergarment I spoke of? We seem to have gotten off on a tangent of movie costuming in general, and the historical accuracy of this movie in particular, which I was hoping to avoid. My question, (again) their are (2) scenes where we see Danielle without her dress on. Changing clothes, and swimming. She is wearing an undergarment the same color as the dress, it appears to be a stiffened (not boned) bodice that laces up the side back. Has anyone ever seen or read about such an undergarment? Thank you, Kathlene ---------- > From: Julie Adams > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentatry was: Ever After > Date: Friday, September 17, 1999 10:22 PM > > > -Poster: Julie Adams > > >> << So here I am trying to find the period representations of the > >> various pieces and cannot find anything! Help! >> > > The bulk of the costumes in "Ever After" were based on very early 16th c > Italians, and a few of the women's gowns were fairly decent renditions of > German styles. > > Julie Adams > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 09:20:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32432 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:20:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03282; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:38:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA26090 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:34:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.nj.home.com [24.3.128.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26083 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:34:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cc1010062a ([24.3.134.203]) by mail.rdc1.nj.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990918143443.HUZV9848.mail.rdc1.nj.home.com@cc1010062a>; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 07:34:43 -0700 Message-ID: <03ed01bf01e0$c220e120$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> From: "Kyna Grannd" To: , "Sewing" , "HCostume" , , References: <01ed01bef40e$68c4ccc0$cb860318@avnl1.nj.home.com> Subject: H-COST: OOPs ... Wonder what happened? Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:19:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" As you can see below I wrote and sent this on August 31...I've no idea why it waited till now...when everything in here has been mentioned by someone else already...to appear on the mailing lists. Apologies for the odd glitch. ~K ----- Original Message ----- From: Kyna Grannd To: Sewing ; ; HCostume ; ; Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 1999 8:10 PM Subject: [sewinghistoric] H-COST: New Simplicity Patterns esp. Zoot and Renaissance > From: "Kyna Grannd" > > > -Poster: "Kyna Grannd" > > Apologies for multiple postings...but these topics where brought up on > almost all of these lists in recent months...so here goes... > > Well, seems like the Retro collection is as close as you can get. There is a > new pattern out for a men's suit that with just a little tweaking could be a > good Zoot Suit. It's Pattern # 8879. From what I can see in the sketches, > the pants would need to come up higher on the waist and the waist band > removed. The Jacket needs a wider lapel and a bit more shoulder and > bagginess to the body. > > For those that were looking for the new Renaissance and Celtic patterns, > they are up online now also. > > http://www.simplicity.com > > Regards, > > ~Kyna > > _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 09:33:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32447 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:33:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04389; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:51:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27436 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:48:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from relay20.smtp.psi.net (relay20.smtp.psi.net [38.8.20.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27429 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:48:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.119.75.41] (helo=kdp.tiac.net) by relay20.smtp.psi.net with esmtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11SLmW-0004pW-00; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:48:04 -0400 From: "John Page" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns Date: Fri, 17 Sep 1999 11:41:07 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1157 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "John Page" >My question is, how accurate is it to copy these > gowns for the rest of Europe? Did Greenlanders wear the same thing as > everyone else? Were they maybe a bit behind the times? Were these garments > worn throughout Europe -- but by only one class, or as only a small part of > the garment choices available? Looks pretty accurate for most of northern Europe based on comparisons of the garments with pictures -- Henk would probably know a lot about this one. Kristin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 09:34:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32451 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:34:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04612; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:52:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27563 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:49:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bunyip.flash.net (bunyip.flash.net [209.30.6.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27557 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:49:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from flash.net (p229.amax20.dialup.hou1.flash.net [209.30.68.229]) by bunyip.flash.net (8.9.3/Pro-8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA23427 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:49:10 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <37E3A7C0.7E1D6F2F@flash.net> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:54:56 -0500 From: "V. Renee Bedford" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Boooks References: <199909171639.KAA27410@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "V. Renee Bedford" > Clothes Make the Man: Female Cross Dressing in Medieval > Europe by Valerie R Hotchkiss ISBN: 0815323697 Borders has it for $35.45 including S&H. Find it via www.borders.com or www.bestbookbuys.com HTH, Renee _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 09:42:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32462 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:42:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05324; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:59:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA28543 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:56:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28534 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 08:56:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.215 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 07:55:37 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Interesting things to do with vinegar (was freezing and onion skins) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:49:42 -0400 Message-ID: <000701bf01e7$555b8e80$d70bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-reply-to: <00a401bf018c$dd820c40$4e2efea9@gunsafes> X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I doubt the proportions are too critical. Just rinse well, so that the acid residue doesn't stay on the ivory. For washing windows, I use a plastic Rubbermaid kitchen wastebasket (the size that plastic grocery bags fit perfectly into), add a drop (no more) of liquid dishwashing detergent (optional), add a few glug-glugs of vinegar (any kind, but white is cheapest) fill it 1/2 full with warm water. Works great on windows with no rinsing. Use a squeegee and rags. It works on a lot of stuff you need to clean around the house too, like the grease dust that builds up on the surface of the range hood, cabinet fronts, vinyl car interiors, etc. The detergent is really only useful as a fragrance, if you add too much, you just ranve to start rinsing, which is usually counterproductive. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Michelle > Sent: Saturday, September 18, 1999 12:18 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Interesting things to do with vinegar > (was freezing > and onion skins) > > > > -Poster: "Michelle" > > Look in a natural cleaning book for window cleaning recipes. > I'll research > it here if you don't have any books. I have quite a few. Let me know. > Michelle > > >-Poster: cynthia j ley > > > >Slightly off topic: > > > >On the subject of vinegar.... > > > >My mother of beloved memory used to use white vinegar mixed with warm > >water to clean ivory. It worked very well too, even on very > old pieces. > >The problem is I can't remember the proportions. Has anyone > any ideas on > >this? > > > > > > Arlys > > > >___________________________________________________________ ________ > >Get the Internet just the way you want it. > >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 09:54:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32468 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:54:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06563; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:11:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29834 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:08:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx20.rmci.net (saturn.rmci.net [205.162.184.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA29829 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:08:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 30082 invoked from network); 18 Sep 1999 15:08:32 -0000 Received: from pag-di105.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.105) by mx20.rmci.net with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 15:08:32 -0000 Message-ID: <37E3AA01.DBC8BD84@rica.net> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:04:34 -0400 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Chiffon on eBay - again - and Edwardian coat References: <007501bf00d2$84773400$2671fea9@gunsafes> <37E23A06.5F8430E3@home.com> <37E27C71.BB680027@home.com> <37E2A383.A336FE1D@home.com> <19990917.123350.4791.0.cley@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jennie Chancey Sorry for forgetting to note this before: It is poly chiffon; not silk. Thanks! Jennie P.S. - I am, indeed, going to offer a pattern for the Edwardian walking suit coat that Sarah loved so much. I am working on that right now. It will just be a straight tracing job (no other sizes), and I will be including the design for the cording that decorates it. :-) -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 11:16:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32563 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:15:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15215; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:34:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10513 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:31:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10508 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:31:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990918163101.JBCJ2543.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:31:01 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:34:26 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Interesting things to do with vinegar (was freezing and onion skins) From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990918163101.JBCJ2543.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" I have not been following this too closely but RINSE SILK Silk is a protein and soap is very alkaline. After washing silk it is always a good idea to add a litle vinegar to your rinse water to restore the acid nature of the silk. It strengthens it and makes it last longer. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: "Hope H. Dunlap" >To: >Subject: RE: H-COST: Interesting things to do with vinegar (was freezing and onion skins) >Date: Sat, Sep 18, 1999, 7:49 AM > > >-Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > >I doubt the proportions are too critical. Just rinse well, >so that the acid residue doesn't stay on the ivory. For >washing windows, I use a plastic Rubbermaid kitchen >wastebasket (the size that plastic grocery bags fit >perfectly into), add a drop (no more) of liquid dishwashing >detergent (optional), add a few glug-glugs of vinegar (any >kind, but white is cheapest) fill it 1/2 full with warm >water. Works great on windows with no rinsing. Use a >squeegee and rags. It works on a lot of stuff you need to >clean around the house too, like the grease dust that builds >up on the surface of the range hood, cabinet fronts, vinyl >car interiors, etc. The detergent is really only useful as a >fragrance, if you add too much, you just ranve to start >rinsing, which is usually counterproductive. > >Hope H. Dunlap > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-h-costume@indra.com >[mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On >> Behalf Of Michelle >> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 1999 12:18 AM >> To: h-costume@indra.com >> Subject: Re: H-COST: Interesting things to do with vinegar >> (was freezing >> and onion skins) >> >> >> >> -Poster: "Michelle" >> >> Look in a natural cleaning book for window cleaning >recipes. >> I'll research >> it here if you don't have any books. I have quite a few. >Let me know. >> Michelle >> >> >-Poster: cynthia j ley >> > >> >Slightly off topic: >> > >> >On the subject of vinegar.... >> > >> >My mother of beloved memory used to use white vinegar >mixed with warm >> >water to clean ivory. It worked very well too, even on >very >> old pieces. >> >The problem is I can't remember the proportions. Has >anyone >> any ideas on >> >this? >> > >> > >> > Arlys >> > >> >>___________________________________________________________ >________ >> >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >> >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for >a month! >> >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. >> > >____________________________________________________________ >_____ >> > To leave this mailing list, send mail to >majordomo@indra.com >> > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >> >> >____________________________________________________________ >_____ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to >majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >> > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 11:21:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32573 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:21:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15665; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:40:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11257 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:37:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11251 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:37:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.84 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:35:59 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Dutch Costume, c. 975 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:45:42 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bf01f5$54e87900$540bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" >From time to time, List members ask about early Dutch costume. The Egmond Gospels from the year 975 are purported to show some of the earliest depictions of the Dutch people. One beautiful picture is available on line at http://www.konbib.nl/kb/100hoogte/hh-en/hh001-en.html. Click on it to get a full screen view. **Lots** of other good illustrations from later periods are available at Koninklijke Bibliotheek, the National Library of the Netherlands, here: http://www.konbib.nl/kb/100hoogte/menu-tours-en.html. Enjoy! Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 11:47:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32592 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:47:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17045; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:05:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13935 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:02:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13929 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:02:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA09103 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:02:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-205.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.205]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18140 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001c01bf01f8$b319e880$4e2efea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: BP (was H-COST: Canadian Iceman update - OT) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:10:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >-Poster: Julie Adams > >>Marc Carlson wrote: >> >>> Um, no. In either AD or CE there is no year "0". That's why 2001 is the >>> beginning >>> of the next Millenium. > >Um, no its not. Jan1, 2000 is the beginning of the new millenium, but this >is way too off topic for this list... Anyone curious needs to review some >graphs and mathmatics... > >Julie Adams > So, this would mean that the first decade only had 9 years. They got ripped off. I agree with Marc Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 11:57:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32598 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:57:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17795; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:16:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15054 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:12:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15039 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:12:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.84 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:11:26 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Norman Psalter of 1180 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:21:12 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bf01fa$4cc08380$540bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Check out this 12th century nobleman's hawking outfit: blue cape, ermine (!) gown, and incredible patterned hose at http://www.konbib.nl/100hoogte/hh-im/hh003.html. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 11:58:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32602 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:58:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17910; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:17:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15209 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:14:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15204 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:14:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA13410 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-205.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.205]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA23668 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <006001bf01fa$526a1940$4e2efea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentary was: Ever After Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:22:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" I thought she had removed the skirt and sleeves, leaving her bodice and chemise on. The bodice seemed to be the same blue as her main gown was. I will watch the movie today and get back to you. It might be an interpretation of the petticoat bodice that Drea was talking about earlier on the list. Michelle >-Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > > >My question, (again) their are (2) scenes where we see Danielle without her >dress on. Changing clothes, and swimming. She is wearing an undergarment >the same color as the dress, it appears to be a stiffened (not boned) >bodice that laces up the side back. Has anyone ever seen or read about >such an undergarment? > >Thank you, > >Kathlene > >---------- >> From: Julie Adams >> To: h-costume@indra.com >> Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentatry was: Ever After >> Date: Friday, September 17, 1999 10:22 PM >> >> >> -Poster: Julie Adams >> >> >> << So here I am trying to find the period representations of the >> >> various pieces and cannot find anything! Help! >> >> >> The bulk of the costumes in "Ever After" were based on very early 16th c >> Italians, and a few of the women's gowns were fairly decent renditions of >> German styles. >> >> Julie Adams >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 12:23:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32633 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:23:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19590; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:42:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18001 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:39:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17996 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:39:17 -0600 (MDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6HMSa03915 (4196) for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:38:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6c649b99.25152821@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:38:41 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Interesting things to do with vinegar (was freezing and onion ski... To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com I always keep a spray bottle in the costume shop full of half vinegar and half water to difficult to remove old creases (as in vintage trouser hems, etc.) Cheryl, Odom _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 12:24:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32637 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:24:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19700; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18072 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:39:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18065 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:39:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.net (CBL-ldpalmer.hs.earthlink.net [209.178.23.220]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17301 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E3CD91.A27AF05A@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:36:18 -0700 From: Florence Palmer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Men's Costuming References: <014b01bf00d7$2c08b500$2671fea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Florence Palmer His time period is AS34 Caidian. Mine is 12th. Hell pretty much wear whatever I make for him. My problem if figuring out what to make. Maykn :o) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 12:32:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32653 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:32:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20697; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:51:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19030 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:48:31 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19019 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 11:48:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.net (CBL-ldpalmer.hs.earthlink.net [209.178.23.220]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26750 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:48:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E3CF90.52D80D6E@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 10:44:48 -0700 From: Florence Palmer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Men's Costuming References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Florence Palmer My sewing is pretty good. I have made quite a few shirts and pants and tunics and a few Irishes and a couple Citons. But what is a bastard Houppelande? I have heard of a Houppelande. I could even get a pattern But the other I am not sure. Maykn :o) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 13:18:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA32679 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:18:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24560; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:37:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA23874 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:33:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23865 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:33:47 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6GXZa04066 (4010) for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:33:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:33:12 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: millennium To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com I think Dave Barry explained the spelling best of all with this mnemonic: Two Ns and two Ls You've spelled it quite well. One L and one N You're a big, fat, stupid hen. Cheers! Gail Finke (he's a humor columnist, for those in other countries) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 14:23:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA32760 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:23:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01089; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:42:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01006 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:38:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web803.mail.yahoo.com (web803.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA00997 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:38:57 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990918194709.18254.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.22.77.233] by web803.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:47:09 PDT Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:47:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Chiffon on eBay - again - and Edwardian coat To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney Did I happen to mention how amazingly wonderful you are? Please, please let me know when you have this! Sarah > P.S. - I am, indeed, going to offer a pattern for > the Edwardian walking > suit coat that Sarah loved so much. I am working on > that right now. It > will just be a straight tracing job (no other > sizes), and I will be > including the design for the cording that decorates > it. :-) > > -- > Sense and Sensibility > http://www.sensibility.com > winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 14:33:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00302 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:33:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01777; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:50:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA01942 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:47:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA01931 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:47:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990918195535.26863.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.22.77.233] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:55:35 PDT Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:55:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Books To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney I knew I would hit one book that someone here wrote... please tell... what will I learn in your book, please? I really appreciate all the advice on the books, guys... I think I have become an addict. ;-) Sarah > >After A Fashion: How to Reproduce, Restore and Wear > >Vintage Styles by Frances Grimble > > LOL! Since Fran is a list member...Fran...I suppose > you could let her know > about your book.. *g* > > Gia/Giacinta > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 14:34:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00306 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:34:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02042; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:52:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02273 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:49:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA02265 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:49:02 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990918195732.12947.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [63.22.77.233] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:57:32 PDT Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 12:57:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Books To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney > > Women's Costume in French texts of the Eleventh > and > > Twelfth centuries by Eunice Rathbone Goddard > > Have you actually found a copy of this? I've been > looking for one for > quite some time with no luck. > > --Charlene According to Amazon, it is out of print, though I am considering having them locate one for me. Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 14:34:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00310 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:34:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02102; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:52:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02320 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:49:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02311 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:49:17 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6LWIa04066 (4256) for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:48:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4d40856f.25154697@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:48:39 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Books To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 9/17/1999 16:28:16 Pacific Daylight Time, kat@grendal.rain.com writes: << Dull is probably right, but what costumer really reads all the drivel they print in the text part. They are merely interpreting what they see in the pictures (which might not be a valid interpretation.) >> I did! Call me crazy, but I thought it fascinating. much of it is history, and you get an idea of why people dress a certain way if you know they need to be warm, or are in a war, so much shield themselves from errants rocks, swords, whatever... I think Boucher is well researched, and for the most part, the "drivel' is accurate. I don't think I wasted my time. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "Be not afraid of greatness; some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them." Twelfth-Night, II, v - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 14:52:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00346 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:52:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03626; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:09:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA04371 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:06:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mirage.tcinternet.net (mirage.tcinternet.net [209.98.215.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04365 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:06:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.98.58.220] by mirage.tcinternet.net (NTMail 4.30.0012/NY0754.00.6e1c47a9) with ESMTP id evdkcaaa for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:10:46 -0500 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: cecilia@pop3.tcinternet.net Message-Id: Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:11:46 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jennifer Arnott Subject: H-COST: Modification of pseudo-Italian-Ren Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jennifer Arnott I've got a question. A few weeks ago, I went off cheerfully to the local Ren-Fest. There, I bought a rather lovely dress (lovely in its own right, rather than for any sense of accuracy.) I recognised at the time that while it was related to Italian Renaissance designs I was familiar with, it probably wasn't accurate. (So I'm not going to be disturbed if anyone tells me that...) However, it's a very nice over-dress, and I *do* play in the SCA, and if I can find a way to make this more accurate, I'd like to do so. My sewing capability is *probably* up to most suggestions, but simpler suggestions would be nice. The overdress is one of those "Shoulder straps" and a sort of half-bodice and split skirt. It laces with .. oh, 5 or 6 grommets below the breasts, but there's no fabric in the over dress above the breasts. It's meant to be worn over a chemise and/or underdress. The fabric is a deep rust colored brocade, mid-weight. I have a vague memory, somewhere, of a garment something like this being worn over another, more modest, over dress (rather than just over the chemise). However, for the life of me, I can't remember where, and I might just be hallucinating. Alternatively, does anyone have suggestions for other modifications? Regardless of whether I can figure out some way to make it physically resemble an accurate historical garment, I'm very happy with it, and I'll find other uses for it. So I'm not *overly* worried about this. Thank you! -Jennifer ------------------- cecilia@tcinternet.net------------------ - Look, I may not be an explorer -- or an adventurer -- or a - treasure-seeker -- or a gunfighter, Mr. O'Connell. But I am - *proud* of what I am ... *I*...am a *librarian*! - "The Mummy" ---------- http://www.tcinternet.net/users/cecilia/ ---------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 14:56:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00350 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:56:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03881; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:12:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA04744 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:09:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04730 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:09:02 -0600 (MDT) From: Gerekr@aol.com Received: from Gerekr@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6RUJa00909 (3862) for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:08:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <89c56071.25154b3c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:08:28 EDT Subject: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gerekr@aol.com Hello all, Went to this weekend's Joanne's 99cent pattern sale and came home with the Shakespeare-in-Love, of course... 8-) We also had a short list of others that I don't particularly remember being discussed? at least not in terms beyond the pattern numbers, which I was not at the time connecting to... So please excuse any duplication, but... S 8725 looks great on the pattern envelope (reminds me of the villain-princess/queen, Urraca, in El Cid, that's what), and looked even better when I saw the pattern pieces. So, except for their buttoning it up the back, which is far better than a zipper (!), how far off is this one? I also grabbed the accessory pattern that goes with this, 8725, with the headdresses and mantle. I debated and debated, but, for 99cents, finally got the 7761, two men's upper garments... on the strength of the line drawing on the instructions, of the red one, which reminds me of something French but Richard III period? Argh, searching Boucher, Payne, Davenport, Norris even... can't find it, but it's feeling like Italian influenced Flemish/French at the end of the 15thC? part of the transition from short houpelande to Tudor/Eliz heavy construction. Anybody have any idea what I'm talking about 8-0!! 8-). Anyway, my 7 yr old immediately said he wanted "one like the (other one)", so it's not a wasted 99cents. Any opinion on how bad that shirt is? band collar and gathered wrists... just typical renn-faire fare? or worse? I'm thinkng of going back after 8735, the "better" of the Italian Renaissance... got turned off by the bodice darts yesterday... opinions? Thanks, Chimene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 15:20:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00369 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:20:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05614; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:38:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA07668 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:35:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07654 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:35:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id NAA05736 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:34:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E3F7C8.8B54616E@best.com> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 13:36:24 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Books References: <19990918195535.26863.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press Sarah Toney wrote: > -Poster: Sarah Toney > > I knew I would hit one book that someone here wrote... > please tell... what will I learn in your book, please? > > I really appreciate all the advice on the books, > guys... I think I have become an addict. ;-) > > Sarah The web site can probably explain that, at least for starters . . . http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Fran _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 15:35:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00382 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:35:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA07378; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:52:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09235 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:49:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09225 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 14:49:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04596 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:48:29 -0400 Message-ID: <37E3FA9E.2E7D4AB6@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:49:06 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Norman Psalter of 1180 References: <000001bf01fa$4cc08380$540bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue That's keen. It certainly supports the "cutting hose on the bias" plan, doesn't it? > Check out this 12th century nobleman's hawking outfit: blue > cape, ermine (!) gown, and incredible patterned hose at > http://www.konbib.nl/100hoogte/hh-im/hh003.html. > > Hope H. Dunlap -- It's nearly time for October Fools' Day -- the Southern Hemisphere version of April Fools' Day. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 15:55:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00418 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:55:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA09341; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:12:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA11419 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:09:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11400 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:09:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem52.barney.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.52] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11SRjM-00045R-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:09:12 +0100 Message-ID: <008c01bf021a$12f69b60$29065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <000001bf01fa$4cc08380$540bfdd0@sharp-9070-> <37E3FA9E.2E7D4AB6@thibault.org> Subject: Re: H-COST: Norman Psalter of 1180 Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:08:41 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" He must have been a very brave man to have a hawk anywhere near an "entire" stallion and then to drop his reins.( or very foolish) I can't see how his hose would have lasted very long at all. Just an observation. Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters > -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > > That's keen. It certainly supports the "cutting hose on the bias" plan, > doesn't it? > > > Check out this 12th century nobleman's hawking outfit: blue > > cape, ermine (!) gown, and incredible patterned hose at > > http://www.konbib.nl/100hoogte/hh-im/hh003.html. > > > > Hope H. Dunlap > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 17:07:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00513 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:07:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15937; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:24:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA19090 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:21:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19082 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:21:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05919 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-160.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.160]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA20110 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:21:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000801bf0225$3394d2a0$1c66fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentary was: Ever After Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:28:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Ok, I went and watched Ever After. The garment asked about is shown when she swims and when she dresses up to go to court and buy 'her' servant. It is a side-backlaced underbodice. It was probably used in place of a corset for breast support. The only documentation I can come up with without looking into it extensively is the underbodice of Eleonora of Toledo. In JA's Patterns of Fashion, there is a drawing of (what was left of) a red velvet under bodice (page 40, caption 286 discusses it). Also, since the overdress doesn't meet in the middle, it is decorative. It reminds me of some of the Flemish or German styles, with the large space for lacing. Michelle -----Original Message----- From: Michelle To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Saturday, September 18, 1999 10:15 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentary was: Ever After > >-Poster: "Michelle" > > > >I thought she had removed the skirt and sleeves, leaving her bodice and >chemise on. The bodice seemed to be the same blue as her main gown was. > I will watch the movie today and get back to you. > It might be an interpretation of the petticoat bodice that Drea was >talking about earlier on the list. > Michelle > >>-Poster: "K & J Hopkins" >> >> >>My question, (again) their are (2) scenes where we see Danielle without her >>dress on. Changing clothes, and swimming. She is wearing an undergarment >>the same color as the dress, it appears to be a stiffened (not boned) >>bodice that laces up the side back. Has anyone ever seen or read about >>such an undergarment? >> >>Thank you, >> >>Kathlene >> >>---------- >>> From: Julie Adams >>> To: h-costume@indra.com >>> Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentatry was: Ever After >>> Date: Friday, September 17, 1999 10:22 PM >>> >>> >>> -Poster: Julie Adams >>> >>> >> << So here I am trying to find the period representations of the >>> >> various pieces and cannot find anything! Help! >> >>> >>> The bulk of the costumes in "Ever After" were based on very early 16th c >>> Italians, and a few of the women's gowns were fairly decent renditions of >>> German styles. >>> >>> Julie Adams >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >>> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 17:48:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00544 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:48:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18833; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:05:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA23431 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:02:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA23423 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:01:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Sat Sep 18 16:01:25 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:01:25 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentary was: Ever After X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.36.163 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Danielle also wears a light olive/oatmeal (the color on the office TV is mesed up due to a lightning strike, so I could be wrong, lol) colored one exactly like the blue one discussed, when she and the prince are with the gypsies. The part where she takes off her dress and climbs up the tree to find out which way they should go. Anyway just thought I'd throw that in, you seem to see that one a little longer and better than you do the blue one. Ever Yours, Ginnaphure ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ICQ# 41340093 AIM: Ginnaphure "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 15:28:10 Michelle wrote: > >-Poster: "Michelle" > >Ok, I went and watched Ever After. The garment asked about is shown when she >swims and when she dresses up to go to court and buy 'her' servant. It is a >side-backlaced underbodice. It was probably used in place of a corset for >breast support. The only documentation I can come up with without looking >into it extensively is the underbodice of Eleonora of Toledo. In JA's >Patterns of Fashion, there is a drawing of (what was left of) a red velvet >under bodice (page 40, caption 286 discusses it). > Also, since the overdress doesn't meet in the middle, it is decorative. >It reminds me of some of the Flemish or German styles, with the large space >for lacing. >Michelle >-----Original Message----- >From: Michelle >To: h-costume@indra.com >Date: Saturday, September 18, 1999 10:15 AM >Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentary was: Ever After > > >> >>-Poster: "Michelle" >> >> >> >>I thought she had removed the skirt and sleeves, leaving her bodice and >>chemise on. The bodice seemed to be the same blue as her main gown was. >> I will watch the movie today and get back to you. >> It might be an interpretation of the petticoat bodice that Drea was >>talking about earlier on the list. >> Michelle >> >>>-Poster: "K & J Hopkins" >>> >>> >>>My question, (again) their are (2) scenes where we see Danielle without >her >>>dress on. Changing clothes, and swimming. She is wearing an undergarment >>>the same color as the dress, it appears to be a stiffened (not boned) >>>bodice that laces up the side back. Has anyone ever seen or read about >>>such an undergarment? >>> >>>Thank you, >>> >>>Kathlene >>> >>>---------- >>>> From: Julie Adams >>>> To: h-costume@indra.com >>>> Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentatry was: Ever After >>>> Date: Friday, September 17, 1999 10:22 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> -Poster: Julie Adams >>>> >>>> >> << So here I am trying to find the period representations of the >>>> >> various pieces and cannot find anything! Help! >> >>>> >>>> The bulk of the costumes in "Ever After" were based on very early 16th c >>>> Italians, and a few of the women's gowns were fairly decent renditions >of >>>> German styles. >>>> >>>> Julie Adams >>>> >>>> >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >>>> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >>> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 20:57:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00830 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:57:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01397; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:14:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA13598 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:11:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13593 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:11:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA01468 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:08:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01ec01bf0244$94043a80$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Millenium (OT) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:13:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings-- >So, this would mean that the first decade only had 9 years. They got ripped >off. > I agree with Marc >Michelle As do I. In any case, it's a moot point. It's now generally accepted that Dionysius Exiguus was off by about seven years when he set the date of Christ's birth, and that it actually happened circa 7 BC. So we're into the third millenium of the Christian era already. Pick any point in time and it's " the start of a new millenium." It's just that some millenia have pretty numbers associated with them. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 21:31:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00903 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:31:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04691; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:48:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA17138 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:45:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA17126 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:45:17 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:45:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 17623 invoked from network); 19 Sep 1999 02:46:41 -0000 Received: from 74.64.3-6.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.74) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 19 Sep 1999 02:46:41 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990918194545.4aaf93c8@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: Re: H-COST: crochet/tatting Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 04:31 PM 9/17/99 EDT, Schmitt100@aol.com wrote: > >-Poster: Schmitt100@aol.com > >Next question (OK, so I missed de-lurkers day cuz of work, I'm making up for >it now ;-) > >When is crocheting and tatting period? These are both arts that I am somewhat >conversant in and would like to know when I can start using them in my >costumes! [snip] The earliest I would be comfortable with *any* crocheting would be about 1840. Crocheting seems to be more used after the ACW than before. And it seems that the method of working in the round is usually to work into the back loop only; to paraphrase a comment I found in one pattern, "unlike our usual way of working, put the hook through both loops of each stitch". The "back loop only" method of working in the round allows any color pattern to be exactly vertical, rather than being distorted, since you join the last stitch of the row to the first and then use one or two chain stitches to get in position to put the first stitch of the next row in the first stitch of the just-finished row (much easier to show than to describe ). This method of working also makes breaking off at the end of each row (for a flat piece) and starting at the beginning end more comprehensible; working into the back loop will only give you a truly flat piece if you work from the same side all the time. Many of the 1870's to 1890's patterns I have seen were trims recommended for petticoats (and at least one petticoat in fine yarn), collars, cuffs, and household linens; actual outer garments, shawls, and hats; and purses and bags of various sorts, etc. Tatting (or frivolite [it's a French name, no way to show the accent], as it was known early on) does not start until later than crocheting, but even then is not the ring-and-chain tatting that we know today; it was done with a single shuttle, with any "chain" done after the piece was finished by buttonhole stitching over the space. The ring-and-chain style developed sometime just before the ACW, but was not widely adopted for a while. The really wide use of tatting on clothing and accessories seems to start near the end of the 19th century (I have a number of pattern books put out by Dover that are compilations of early 1900's through 1920's patterns). Tatting would be *great* for Edwardian outfits. Many of the patterns are for yokes of nightgowns (in size 70 or 100 thread!). There are patterns for hair or hat decorations (some with part of the pattern worked over a fine wire to allow shaping) and small purses, both often with beading incorporated; and lots of patterns for applique pieces (again, often with beads). Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 22:08:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00954 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:08:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07713; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:25:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20556 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:22:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA20549 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:22:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909190322.VAA20549@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 11288 invoked from network); 18 Sep 1999 21:22:25 -0600 Received: from ts25-21.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.11.36) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 21:22:25 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentary was: Ever After Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:29:38 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" Thanks Michelle, I am looking at it as I type. Kathlene ---------- > From: Michelle > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentary was: Ever After > Date: Saturday, September 18, 1999 4:28 PM > > > -Poster: "Michelle" > > Ok, I went and watched Ever After. The garment asked about is shown when she > swims and when she dresses up to go to court and buy 'her' servant. It is a > side-backlaced underbodice. It was probably used in place of a corset for > breast support. The only documentation I can come up with without looking > into it extensively is the underbodice of Eleonora of Toledo. In JA's > Patterns of Fashion, there is a drawing of (what was left of) a red velvet > under bodice (page 40, caption 286 discusses it). > Also, since the overdress doesn't meet in the middle, it is decorative. > It reminds me of some of the Flemish or German styles, with the large space > for lacing. > Michelle > -----Original Message----- > From: Michelle > To: h-costume@indra.com > Date: Saturday, September 18, 1999 10:15 AM > Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentary was: Ever After > > > > > >-Poster: "Michelle" > > > > > > > >I thought she had removed the skirt and sleeves, leaving her bodice and > >chemise on. The bodice seemed to be the same blue as her main gown was. > > I will watch the movie today and get back to you. > > It might be an interpretation of the petticoat bodice that Drea was > >talking about earlier on the list. > > Michelle > > > >>-Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > >> > >> > >>My question, (again) their are (2) scenes where we see Danielle without > her > >>dress on. Changing clothes, and swimming. She is wearing an undergarment > >>the same color as the dress, it appears to be a stiffened (not boned) > >>bodice that laces up the side back. Has anyone ever seen or read about > >>such an undergarment? > >> > >>Thank you, > >> > >>Kathlene > >> > >>---------- > >>> From: Julie Adams > >>> To: h-costume@indra.com > >>> Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentatry was: Ever After > >>> Date: Friday, September 17, 1999 10:22 PM > >>> > >>> > >>> -Poster: Julie Adams > >>> > >>> >> << So here I am trying to find the period representations of the > >>> >> various pieces and cannot find anything! Help! >> > >>> > >>> The bulk of the costumes in "Ever After" were based on very early 16th c > >>> Italians, and a few of the women's gowns were fairly decent renditions > of > >>> German styles. > >>> > >>> Julie Adams > >>> > >>> > >>> _________________________________________________________________ > >>> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > >>> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > >> _________________________________________________________________ > >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 22:08:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00958 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:08:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07684; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:25:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20514 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:22:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (root@proxy2.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20499 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:22:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id UAA11918 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:21:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E45762.13DC4C88@best.com> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 20:24:18 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: crochet/tatting References: <2.2.16.19990918194545.4aaf93c8@mail2.quiknet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lavolta Press > Many of the 1870's to 1890's patterns I have seen > were trims recommended for petticoats (and at least one petticoat in fine > yarn), collars, cuffs, and household linens; actual outer garments, shawls, > and hats; and purses and bags of various sorts, etc. I have quite a lot of late 1860s needlework patterns, which include tatted trims (including tatting with a crochet hook instead of a shuttle), and various crocheted and knitted garments, including under petticoats and trims for them. Also--really!--a pattern for a completely knitted corset and another for a completely crocheted corset. Corsets, in common corset shapes, labeled as corsets, not corset covers or warm under vests. With visible clasps and possibly boning; in one case, with directions for fitting a muslin first. These don't seem to be for children (they have busts). They don't have a "maternity" abdomen shape. They may be for sports or invalids or some special use requiring a light or elastic corset; but if so this is not mentioned. Fran Grimble --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 22:13:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00968 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:13:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08333; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:30:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA21038 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:27:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21028 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:27:40 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnoraK@aol.com Received: from AnnoraK@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6HAC04GosD (3975) for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:25:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:25:41 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Les Incroyables et Mervilleuses To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AnnoraK@aol.com Wow! Thank you to everyone who responded. Now I have an excuse to go buy more books! ;-) And Carol, I'd love to see a .jpg of your creation. --Jen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 23:13:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01002 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:13:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12480; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:31:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA27273 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:27:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27266 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:27:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-86-84.s84.tnt6.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.86.84]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA19127 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:27:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00e201bf0256$f3576fe0$5456accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <37E3CF90.52D80D6E@earthlink.net> Subject: H-COST: An event today Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:25:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Well, I am kinda tickled pink today. I went to the Henricus celebration and got lots of pictures of the interrupters for my Online Costume Ball. I got pictures of costumes representing fashions from 1611 to the American Civil War. Last year, we did not have many male guests at the Ball. But this year we will! I have lots of pictures of men in costume. I took four rolls of film and the majority of photos turned out. I also got to photograph a mock wedding of Pocahontas and John Roth. The cleryman's costume was my favorite. He looked like he walked out of the Milanese Tailor's Handbook. I sure would like to have a copy of his robe. I got to talk with Pocahontas historian, Shirley "Little Dove" Custalow McGowan. She is of the Mattaponi tribe in Virginia. I told her about the Ball, and how we are trying to provide a good representation of all areas of costume. She said that she would send me pictures of her people's pow-wow regalia to be on the Ball. Remember, Tuesday is the last day to send me pictures to be in the Ball! Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/attend.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 18 23:17:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01009 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:17:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12879; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:35:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA27609 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:31:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA27594 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:31:55 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909190431.WAA27594@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 25933 invoked from network); 18 Sep 1999 22:31:55 -0600 Received: from ts26-16.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.130) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 18 Sep 1999 22:31:55 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: crochet/tatting Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 22:39:07 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" I could never figure out tatting until I picked up a book on 'needle' tatting. According to the author the needle came before the shuttle. I haven't had any time to look into further, though. I can say, that I have turned two other people onto it, and now they 'get' tatting too. Kathlene ---------- > From: Lavolta Press > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: crochet/tatting > Date: Saturday, September 18, 1999 9:24 PM > > > -Poster: Lavolta Press > > > Many of the 1870's to 1890's patterns I have seen > > were trims recommended for petticoats (and at least one petticoat in fine > > yarn), collars, cuffs, and household linens; actual outer garments, shawls, > > and hats; and purses and bags of various sorts, etc. > > I have quite a lot of late 1860s needlework patterns, which include tatted trims > (including tatting with a crochet hook instead of a shuttle), and various > crocheted and knitted garments, including under petticoats and trims for them. > Also--really!--a pattern for a completely knitted corset and another for a > completely crocheted corset. Corsets, in common corset shapes, labeled as > corsets, not corset covers or warm under vests. With visible clasps and possibly > boning; in one case, with directions for fitting a muslin first. These don't seem > to be for children (they have busts). They don't have a "maternity" abdomen > shape. They may be for sports or invalids or some special use requiring a light > or elastic corset; but if so this is not mentioned. > > Fran Grimble > > --------------------------------------------- > Visit our web pages! > Books on historic costume and vintage clothes > http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm > Historic and vintage dance > http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 00:05:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01091 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 00:05:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15074; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:22:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA02274 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:19:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ultra2.quiknet.com (ultra2.quiknet.com [207.183.249.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA02268 for ; Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:19:44 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:19:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 13395 invoked from network); 19 Sep 1999 05:21:08 -0000 Received: from 74.64.3-6.fo.pmpool.quiknet.com (HELO JOANJURA) (207.231.64.74) by ultra2.quiknet.com with SMTP; 19 Sep 1999 05:21:08 -0000 Message-Id: <2.2.16.19990918222011.3b3f1ebc@mail2.quiknet.com> X-Sender: joanj@mail2.quiknet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (16) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Joan M Jurancich Subject: "needle" tatting, was Re: H-COST: crochet/tatting Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Joan M Jurancich At 10:39 PM 9/18/99 -0600, K & J Hopkins wrote: > >-Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > >I could never figure out tatting until I picked up a book on 'needle' >tatting. According to the author the needle came before the shuttle. I >haven't had any time to look into further, though. I can say, that I have >turned two other people onto it, and now they 'get' tatting too. > >Kathlene And I have never been able to figure out needle tatting. Using the shuttle was easy once I had seen it done. And the tools are prettier, too . What citations does the author of your book give for her assertion that needle tatting preceeded shuttle tatting? I have always assumed (dangerous, I know ) that tatting developed from knotting, a popular craft in the 17th & 18th centuries. Knotting used a larger, open-ended shuttle. The "fly fringe" in the 18th century was apparently a patterned knotting (does anyone have a reference to instructions for doing this?). I have only seen references to tatting shuttles, not to tatting needles. Joan Jurancich Sacramento, CA joanj@quiknet.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 03:27:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA30034 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 03:27:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA24861; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:44:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA18983 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:41:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f210.hotmail.com [207.82.251.101]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA18976 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:41:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 21345 invoked by uid 0); 19 Sep 1999 08:40:57 -0000 Message-ID: <19990919084057.21344.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.244.99.253 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 01:40:56 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.244.99.253] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 01:40:56 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Hullo Chimene I have 8725 and the mantle/headdress pattern. I made the cote for a friend of mine out of cotton bedsheets (don't laugh, they work beautifully for good, cheap field garb). It came out okay for a first time, but I need to tweak the pattern a bit before I make another one. One big problem; it's way too long, unless you're about 5'8' or more, and I don't remember seeing a way to lengthen or shorten the pattern pieces without turning it into a major operation (due to the way the pattern pieces are cut). My friend and I are both in the 5'2" to 5'4" range. In other words, lots of extra fabric to deal with which can lead to severe "train wrecks" (SCA vernacular: The resulting consequence when the wearer, or someone else, steps on the wearer's train). Second problem is that both she and I are a bit large in the rear section and the pattern does not allow for extra room in the lower hip/upper derriere (again, a major pain to alter, due to the pattern cut). As you can probably guess by now, I'm not too fond of the way the pattern pieces are cut. :-) I know that the pattern people say that (direct quote from the pattern notes): "Due to the special nature of this product and a need to accomodate today's fabrics, seams have been added where they would not have been originally." I tend to disagree with this. If I remember correctly, fabrics weren't as wide as they are today (Anybody out there willing to add their input on this?). I also didn't care for the button back. I ended up placing the back pattern piece on the fold (making an extra fabric allowance) so that the wearer can slip it on and off, thus eliminating the need for a helping hand. Anyway, the next time I sew this, I'm planning to do a mockup in muslin. Then I'm going to mark/cut the finished product in pieces that resemble an actual cote pattern (I use some of the ones from Norris v.2. I don't know how accurate they are, but I do know that they work for me). After that, I should be able to make the needed alterations on each panel. On a good note, this dress is comfortable to wear and it flows beautifully. Haven't sewn the sideless yet. Will let you know the results when I do. On another note, I also picked up the Simplicity '20s pattern (8739) and Style 2947 which is a very lovely version of a coccoon coat. Can anyone tell me how authentic these are? Hope the input helps. Good luck with your projects. Lonna >From: Gerekr@aol.com >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 >Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 16:08:28 EDT > > >-Poster: Gerekr@aol.com > >Hello all, > >Went to this weekend's Joanne's 99cent pattern sale and came home with >the Shakespeare-in-Love, of course... 8-) > >We also had a short list of others that I don't particularly remember >being discussed? at least not in terms beyond the pattern numbers, which >I was not at the time connecting to... > >So please excuse any duplication, but... > >S 8725 looks great on the pattern envelope (reminds me of the >villain-princess/queen, Urraca, in El Cid, that's what), and looked even >better when I saw the pattern pieces. So, except for their buttoning it >up the back, which is far better than a zipper (!), how far off is this >one? I also grabbed the accessory pattern that goes with this, 8725, >with the headdresses and mantle. > >I debated and debated, but, for 99cents, finally got the 7761, two men's >upper garments... on the strength of the line drawing on the >instructions, of the red one, which reminds me of something French but >Richard III period? Argh, searching Boucher, Payne, Davenport, Norris >even... can't find it, but it's feeling like Italian influenced >Flemish/French at the end of the 15thC? part of the transition from >short houpelande to Tudor/Eliz heavy construction. Anybody have any idea >what I'm talking about 8-0!! 8-). Anyway, my 7 yr old immediately said >he wanted "one like the (other one)", so it's not a wasted 99cents. Any >opinion on how bad that shirt is? band collar and gathered wrists... >just typical renn-faire fare? or worse? > >I'm thinkng of going back after 8735, the "better" of the Italian >Renaissance... got turned off by the bodice darts yesterday... opinions? > >Thanks, >Chimene > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 06:28:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA30349 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 06:28:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA29656; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 05:45:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23804 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 05:41:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23799 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 05:41:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-238-241.s241.tnt2.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.238.241]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA15971 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:41:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001f01bf0295$38e3d060$f1ee7ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <89c56071.25154b3c@aol.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:50:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > S 8725 looks great on the pattern envelope (reminds me of the > villain-princess/queen, Urraca, in El Cid, that's what), and looked even > better when I saw the pattern pieces. So, except for their buttoning it > up the back, which is far better than a zipper (!), how far off is this > one? I also grabbed the accessory pattern that goes with this, 8725, > with the headdresses and mantle. > I saw this gown made up last weekend on a normal woman. The pattern picture shows it on a tall skinny model. I saw it worn by a short, maybe size 10 woman. It looked awful. Made her look dumpy and the fabric swallowed her up. I've seen this woman in other dresses and she has a great figure. Also, this dress calls for 10 yards of fabric (in my size). I also got the pattern for $.99, but I plan to use it for the sleeves and neckline and to skip the body parts. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 07:04:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA30371 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:04:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00752; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 06:22:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA26725 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 06:19:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26716 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 06:19:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05388 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:18:29 -0400 Message-ID: <37E4D496.AA26FF00@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:19:29 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 References: <19990919084057.21344.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > One big problem; it's way too long, unless you're about 5'8' or more, and I > don't remember seeing a way to lengthen or shorten the pattern pieces > without turning it into a major operation If I recall from the pattern, it's basically two long panels with half-circle insets that make the skirt. If you were to shorten the long panels appropriately, and add the half-circle "gores" so that they start falling from the waist, it should work fine. I have a few dresses from my earlier years based on this principle (in turn based on a not-so-reliable diagram in a victorian costume book) and they look quite good, despite me being 5'2 and well-upholstered. The upper body does need to fit fairly closely, though not skintight, so that I don't appear to be "lost in fabric" as someone described. > from the pattern notes): "Due to the special nature of this product and a > need to accomodate today's fabrics, seams have been added where they would > not have been originally." Heh. I agree with you -- this is a misrepresentation, at the least. If you want to play with the flow of the skirt in a more accurate manner, instead of two half-circles on the sideseam, use two quarter circles on the sideseam, and slit the CF and CB and put half circles there. That will distribute the skirts much more evenly. -- It's nearly time for October Fools' Day -- the Southern Hemisphere version of April Fools' Day. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 07:57:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA30399 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:57:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02852; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:14:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA00895 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:11:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00890 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:11:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem16.barney.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.16] helo=herimats) by mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11Sgk7-0001OK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:11:00 +0100 Message-ID: <008101bf02a0$6fb77460$10075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <01ec01bf0244$94043a80$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Millenium (OT) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:57:54 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Somehow I dont have the impression that people were running around planning parties or wondering if there systems would crash as the year Zero approached. Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 08:44:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA30423 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:44:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05169; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:00:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA04820 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:57:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA04807 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 07:57:18 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909191357.HAA04807@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 8198 invoked from network); 19 Sep 1999 07:57:19 -0600 Received: from ts26-37.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.151) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 19 Sep 1999 07:57:18 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: "needle" tatting, was Re: H-COST: crochet/tatting Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 08:04:27 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" Now that I have had a chance to go back and read the introduction, to Learn Needle Tatting, again, Barbara Foster just says that "needle tatting was not unknown in the 19th and early 20th century". There are no citations. She calls Tatting an "...ancient form of lace making" (???), but does not back that up with anything either. Kathene ---------- > From: Joan M Jurancich > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: "needle" tatting, was Re: H-COST: crochet/tatting > Date: Saturday, September 18, 1999 11:19 PM > > > -Poster: Joan M Jurancich > > At 10:39 PM 9/18/99 -0600, K & J Hopkins wrote: > > > >-Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > > > >I could never figure out tatting until I picked up a book on 'needle' > >tatting. According to the author the needle came before the shuttle. I > >haven't had any time to look into further, though. I can say, that I have > >turned two other people onto it, and now they 'get' tatting too. > > > >Kathlene > > And I have never been able to figure out needle tatting. Using the shuttle > was easy once I had seen it done. And the tools are prettier, too . > > What citations does the author of your book give for her assertion that > needle tatting preceeded shuttle tatting? I have always assumed (dangerous, > I know ) that tatting developed from knotting, a popular craft in the > 17th & 18th centuries. Knotting used a larger, open-ended shuttle. The "fly > fringe" in the 18th century was apparently a patterned knotting (does anyone > have a reference to instructions for doing this?). I have only seen > references to tatting shuttles, not to tatting needles. > > Joan Jurancich > Sacramento, CA > joanj@quiknet.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 10:42:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA30506 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 10:42:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11463; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16346 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:54:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16341 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 09:54:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id ELVY9JU7; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:53:19 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 Message-ID: <19990919.073226.4543.0.cley@juno.com> References: <19990919084057.21344.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-4,7-12 From: cynthia j ley Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:53:19 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: cynthia j ley Lonna wrote: > If I remember correctly, fabrics weren't as wide as they are today (Anybody out >there willing to add their input on this?). They weren't. I don't remember the measurements exactly, but somewhere around 20-30" was normal, as I recall. Basically whatever your loom allowed. Arlys ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 12:28:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA30620 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:28:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19315; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:46:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27517 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:42:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27505 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:42:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19374 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:42:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp234-15.worldonline.nl [195.241.234.15]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA09782 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:42:35 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909191742.TAA09782@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:43:22 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Kiristin wrote: > >My question is, how accurate is it to copy these > > gowns for the rest of Europe? Did Greenlanders wear the same thing as > > everyone else? Were they maybe a bit behind the times? Were these > garments > > worn throughout Europe -- but by only one class, or as only a small part > of > > the garment choices available? > > Looks pretty accurate for most of northern Europe based on comparisons of > the garments with pictures -- Henk would probably know a lot about this > one. Not much more than you, and certainly less than Marc and Robin. I always wondered, though, seeing all these narrow strips of cloth, if there wasn't something else behind this type of pattern. It looks on the one hand if the maker of these (sur)cottes was extremely thrifty with cloth. This makes sence, because cloth must have been very expensive in Greenland. On the other hand there might be something else that has happened. It might have to do with dresses or cottes being left after death to other members of the family, which was not uncommon even till far after the middle ages had ended. Cloth being so rare, garments might have been enlarged, fitting larger people, taken in again for smaller wearers and then enlarged again for others again, by inserting gores again (lots of agains ;-)). Also a garment might have been enlarged for one person as he/she grew older and his/her girth expanded. Apart from the use of buttons, these costumes don't look typically 14th c. The width of them and the use of narrow gores is more 13th c and earlier than 13th c. It may be, though, that in circles of farmers and small craftsmen the 13th c manners of garment making kept going strong, especailly in out of the way places with no access to fashion statements by the nobility or rich merchant class. On the other other hand: people in Greenland might have done things in their peculiarly own way, just because they had been doing it this way for generations and because they had learned to be very careful with using cloth. So what do you think, Marc? Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 13:28:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30689 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:28:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24727; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:44:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA04068 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:39:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA04062 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:39:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jhill.airmail.net from [207.136.8.3] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.405) with esmtp for sender: id ; Sun, 19 Sep 99 13:39:54 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <00f501bf02ce$ae79ce40$033e000a@airmail.net> From: "Linda" To: References: <199909150108.TAA29649@net.indra.com> <37DEF976.B43CC66F@vci.net> Subject: H-COST: Re: Uniquely You Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:42:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Linda" Does anyone know if Greenberg and Hammer has a web site? Also, there was a recent GREAT link posted on prices, sizes of forms and covers available, etc, but it seems to have gone into the Twilight Zone here. Would whoever that wonderful person was be so kind to repost, please? It would be greatly appreciated. Linda P. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 1999 8:42 PM Subject: H-COST: Re:where to buy uniquely you > > -Poster: "schuck@vci.net" > > Hi > Where could I buy a Uniquely you dressform? They sound useful. > > jb > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 13:41:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30697 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:41:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25568; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:56:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05536 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:52:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f305.hotmail.com [207.82.251.218]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA05524 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:52:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 75656 invoked by uid 0); 19 Sep 1999 18:51:58 -0000 Message-ID: <19990919185158.75655.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.44.1 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:51:58 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.44.1] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:51:58 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Thought so. Looks like Simplicity is being a bit creative with the pattern pieces. My next question is; was the Simplicity version of this pattern used in period? I don't seen to recall seeing anything like it. It seems to me to be more of a modern (or fairytale (?)) interpreation of a period style than the actual thing. And, yes it does look good if you are tall and willowy. But, if you're not, it does need some major overhauling. >From: cynthia j ley >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >CC: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:53:19 EDT > >-Poster: cynthia j ley > >Lonna wrote: > > If I remember correctly, fabrics weren't as wide as they are today >(Anybody out > >there willing to add their input on this?). > >They weren't. I don't remember the measurements exactly, but somewhere >around 20-30" was normal, as I recall. Basically whatever your loom >allowed. > > > Arlys > > > >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 13:42:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30702 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:42:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25876; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:59:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05938 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:56:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05925 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:56:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA22393 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:56:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-76.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.76]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA25931 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 11:56:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009301bf02d1$bbb9ce40$8e0efea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Millenium (OT) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:03:59 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Susan, You are right and we took this conversation to private email. I think however that the millenium should be added to the suggestion of what never to say on a first date. Everyone has such firm opinions. "When on a first date, never discuss politics, abortion or the new millenium." Michelle - > >-Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" > >Greetings-- > >>So, this would mean that the first decade only had 9 years. They got ripped >>off. >> I agree with Marc >>Michelle > > >As do I. In any case, it's a moot point. It's now generally accepted that >Dionysius Exiguus was off by about seven years when he set the date of >Christ's birth, and that it actually happened circa 7 BC. So we're into the >third millenium of the Christian era already. > > >Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 13:44:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30706 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:44:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26074; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:01:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06240 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:58:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06232 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:58:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem100.barney.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.100] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11SmAE-0001zs-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:58:18 +0100 Message-ID: <001a01bf02d0$f414a4f0$64075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <199909191742.TAA09782@worldonline.nl> Subject: Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns-offshoot Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:57:13 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Henk spoke about the passing down of dresses to later members of the family and it reminded me of something similar that I had come across. A few years ago a tourist event I saw a group of dancers from the North East UK ( rare in itself as the NW has much stronger dance traditions); They told me that there costume was based on the traditional costume of the regional fishwives. The skirts were very heavy and made from frilled lateral sections with enough length to fit people of around nine feet tall.. There were only ever made in full adult size. When a young girl was old enough to work she started to wear the dress, the extra length being collected up to hang from the waist; As she grew this was lowered to fit ; They were very stiff voluminous and practically waterproof., in fact just the thing for wearing at dawn on a windy and wet fishdock gutting and packing fish. Over the top was a large apron. They said that the originals were often handed down and that there weres ome in a local museum (which I didnt get the chance to see)I have not come across them since. or anything like them. Do any members of the list know any more about this or any other instances of workwear items becoming traditional. I can only think of Cornish smocks and of course the Scottish woollens , all of which are associated with fishing ; Any others. Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 13:47:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30710 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:47:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26467; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:04:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06562 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:01:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06555 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA24307 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-76.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.76]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA28223 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009e01bf02d2$6bb25420$8e0efea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentary was: Ever After Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:08:54 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >-Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" > >Danielle also wears a light olive/oatmeal (the color on the office TV is mesed up due to a lightning strike, so I could be wrong, lol) colored one exactly like the blue one discussed, when she and the prince are with the gypsies. >Ever Yours, >Ginnaphure > Oh! She said blue and I got that stuck in my head. I go back and look again. I do remember her being undress for a long time during that fight... :) The TV color this is really funny! Do you want me to let you know what color it really is, if it turns out to be different? Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 13:59:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA30744 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:59:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27399; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:15:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07689 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:11:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07678 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:11:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA28167 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:11:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-76.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.76]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA02813 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:11:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00c101bf02d3$d8d29e60$8e0efea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:19:07 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" ->> from the pattern notes): "Due to the special nature of this product and a >> need to accomodate today's fabrics, seams have been added where they would >> not have been originally." > I laughed when I saw this...According to JA's: Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe, at that time period, fabric was sometimes made in 18 or 22 inch wide pieces. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 14:13:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA30763 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:13:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28994; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:30:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09431 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:26:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09425 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:26:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem55.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.183] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11Smb8-0006hD-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:26:07 +0100 Message-ID: <003c01bf02d4$d6692300$64075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <19990919185158.75655.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:25:30 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" The width of cloth was limited by the width of the loom , so you could reach either side for the shuttle. It was only with the introduction a spring arrangement at the end of a piece of string that made it possible to weave wider cloth; There are those with better memories on this list who can provide date and more technical descriptions of this important breakthrough.(Flying Shuttle?) And this is a request for them to do so as it driving me crazy trying to remember. Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters > >-Poster: cynthia j ley > > > >Lonna wrote: > > > If I remember correctly, fabrics weren't as wide as they are today > >(Anybody out > > >there willing to add their input on this?). > > > >They weren't. I don't remember the measurements exactly, but somewhere > >around 20-30" was normal, as I recall. Basically whatever your loom > >allowed. > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 14:15:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA30786 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:15:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29259; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:32:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09764 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:29:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09756 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:29:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.200]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:23:35 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Uniquely You Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:29:39 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37e9396e.397324467@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <199909150108.TAA29649@net.indra.com> <37DEF976.B43CC66F@vci.net> <00f501bf02ce$ae79ce40$033e000a@airmail.net> In-Reply-To: <00f501bf02ce$ae79ce40$033e000a@airmail.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA09758 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:42:07 -0500, the following was written in this electric book by "Linda" : >Does anyone know if Greenberg and Hammer has a web site? They hve plans for a website, but do not have one yet. I seem to recall being told that it would happen after the turn of the year. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 14:33:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA30798 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:33:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00667; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:48:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA11402 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:44:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f314.hotmail.com [207.82.251.227]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA11395 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 93864 invoked by uid 0); 19 Sep 1999 19:43:31 -0000 Message-ID: <19990919194331.93863.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.44.1 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:43:31 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.44.1] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 12:43:31 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Hullo Cynthia >-Poster: Cynthia Virtue > > > > One big problem; it's way too long, unless you're about 5'8' or more, >and I > > don't remember seeing a way to lengthen or shorten the pattern pieces > > without turning it into a major operation > >If I recall from the pattern, it's basically two long panels with >half-circle insets that make the skirt. If you were to shorten the long >panels appropriately, and add the half-circle "gores" so that they start >falling from the waist, it should work fine. I think I understand what you're saying. Basically one would add a point to the half circles so that they could be joined at the waist. Although, in my case, since my waist is something I'd rather downplay, I'd join the points at the hip and then adjust the length of everything accordingly. I drafted a pattern that was somewhat like this with a friend's help a few years back. It has a front panel and a back panel with a seamless 1/3 circle joined to the side front and back plus a another inserted into a slit in the CB. It doesn't have as much fabric though and the train is not quite as long. > > from the pattern notes): "Due to the special nature of this product and >a > > need to accomodate today's fabrics, seams have been added where they >would > > not have been originally." > >Heh. I agree with you -- this is a misrepresentation, at the least. If >you want to play with the flow of the skirt in a more accurate manner, >instead of two half-circles on the sideseam, use two quarter circles on >the sideseam, and slit the CF and CB and put half circles there. That >will distribute the skirts much more evenly. > Yeah, what you said. That's about what I did with the pattern I mentioned earlier, minus the CF panel. Thanks for your input. Lonna ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 15:10:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30855 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:10:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03727; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:26:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA15666 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:21:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hurontario.net (root@hurontario.net [209.135.104.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15658 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:21:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from VSIMPSON.maclaren (remote-181.hurontario.net [209.135.104.181]) by hurontario.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA10405 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:28:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909192028.QAA10405@hurontario.net> From: "Vandy Simpson" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:22:12 -0400 Subject: H-COST: flying shuttle Priority: normal In-reply-to: <199909191926.NAA09441@net.indra.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Vandy Simpson" Greetings. Well, since I actually have some reference books still upstairs, (being filled with zeal after doing the Grand Encampment at Louisbourg this summer) I can tell you that one book mentions: "most successful of all attempts to accelerate the speed of hand weaving was the fly shuttle, which was patented in 1733 by John Kay, an English mechanic." However, and I'd have to find my photocopies to check, I believe that in the book on Danish Bronze Age Textiles, it mentions fabrics of 90inches. Of course, that may just be senility. I'll find it and check, and it doesn't really address what happened in between the Bronze Age and 1733. Vandy Simpson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 15:25:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30878 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:25:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05391; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:42:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17508 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:39:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA17501 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:39:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05778 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:38:30 -0400 Message-ID: <37E549C8.D25DC4E4@thibault.org> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:39:49 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 References: <19990919194331.93863.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue We may be in agreement -- but just in case we are not: > I think I understand what you're saying. Basically one would add a point to > the half circles so that they could be joined at the waist. The precise half circles (no additional cutting) which are sewn into the straight/selvedge side seams either 1: are centered on the side seams, with the exact center of the circle at the side seam and the straight edges are sewn to the body straight edges or, in the modified version, 2: the point of a quarter-circle goes at the side seam, and the straight edges again are sewn to the front and back panels, then you cut a slit from the bottom CF and CB for the other two quarters remaining. Mind you, if I were to do this, I'd probably make each gore into two, so that I could balance the bias directions. -- It's nearly time for October Fools' Day -- the Southern Hemisphere version of April Fools' Day. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 15:25:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30879 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:25:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05385; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:42:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA17398 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:38:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA17390 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:38:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Sun Sep 19 13:37:34 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:37:34 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentary was: Ever After X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.36.140 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" --- >-Poster: "Michelle" I do remember her being undress for a long time during that fight... Yeah it's the same stiffened and back-side laced one that they were talking about. Do you want me to let you know what >color it really is, if it turns out to be different? yeah that would be great, lol. We have a TV in the living room that is okay, we didn't have it at the time of the lightning. lol. I just am always in the office and never in the living rom at the time "Ever After" is on HBO. Ever Yours, Ginnaphure ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ICQ# 41340093 AIM: Ginnaphure "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 15:31:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30887 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:31:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06045; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:48:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18133 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:45:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18122 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 14:45:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (d-ma-superpop-1-226.ici.net [207.180.41.226]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id QAA29453 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:45:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909192045.QAA29453@bajor.ici.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:45:14 -0400 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id OAA18124 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Irene leNoir Regarding Simplicity 8725 When this first came out I took a look at the pattern envelope and instructions. I immediately noticed two major flaws with the pattern. First, the cut. While I would not proclaim myself an expert on costuming of this time period, I have done a lot of research. I have never seen anything to suggest that gowns of this time period were ever cut in this manner. Everything I've ever seen suggests a cut more along the lines of the greenland gown or princess-line cutting. Putting aside the historical inaccuracy of the cut, it is just very poorly designed. Putting all the fullness of the skirt onto the sides will make the gown lie very flat across the center front (and center back), producing an unattractive effect. Additionally, by using a right angle for the transition between torso and skirt as they've done is asking to have the garment come apart right at that corner. Then in the torso, there isn't any shaping other than the curved side seams. This might work for someone who is relatively flat chested, but not for a fuller bust. Second, the presentation of the pattern. I have to say I'm very displeased with Simplicity on this one. Even putting aside the fact that they've deliberately photographed the gown on models chosen to disguise the flaws of the gown, and at camera angles also chosen to do so, I can't excuse one other thing they did. If you look very carefully at the photo on the pattern envelope, you will see a bust dart in the gown they've shown. This smacks of blatant false advertising to me. They're trying to con you into thinking that if you follow their pattern you'll wind up with the gown shown. Well, you won't, because that dart isn't included in the pattern. All in all, it's not a bad pattern if what you want is a one-time costume for halloween or a party. But for serious historical costuming... forget it. You'd do better starting off with a cheerleader dress pattern. Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 16:00:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30946 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:00:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA08640; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:16:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA21117 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:11:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from one.net.au (hardblue.one.net.au [203.17.224.221]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA21107 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:10:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 18987 invoked from network); 19 Sep 1999 21:10:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pbncomputer) (203.101.59.219) by hardblue.one.net.au with SMTP; 19 Sep 1999 21:10:22 -0000 From: "Megan McConnell" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Greenland gowns-offshoot Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:12:03 +1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: <001a01bf02d0$f414a4f0$64075cc3@herimats> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Megan McConnell" Off hand, I can think of 1 item that is in the Snowshill Collection in the UK that was probably passed down. (raids bookcase for book to check) In the book "Costume in Detail 1730 -1930" by Nancy Bradford, she describes (and has a colour photo of) a jacket that is rather interesting. It is a yellow woven silk jacket made in about 1730-1750. The silk probably comes from 1715-20, and the author says that it looks like it is remnants from making a dress, as there are a lot of seams and joins (and in the photo you can see these). The jacket looks like it had originally elbow length sleeves, and later on - about 1770-80 - trimming and sleeves below the elbow were added. In my family there is also a story about one of my female ancestors who spent the whole voyage from England to Australia altering her dead mother's crinoline gowns to bustle gowns so tht when she landed, she was wearing the height of fashion! (and apparently this was one of the common shipboard entertainments for ladies emigrating to the Colonies). These were all very thrifty people and - especially if the fabric was very very luxurious - I feel rather sure that they would have handed down garments. After all - fashion changed then over years rather than months as it does now! Regards, Madilayn de Mer (Megan McConnell) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 16:33:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30973 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:33:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13218; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:49:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25912 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:44:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25895 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11SokZ-000ESj-0B for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:44:00 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:41:45 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: H-COST: workwear becomes traditional In-Reply-To: <001a01bf02d0$f414a4f0$64075cc3@herimats> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie It kind of depends what you call workwear. Until quite recently, the _working_ classes had so little leisure time, I doubt they came home from work and changed into other clothes for the evening. In other words, the clothes they wore all the time, except for Sunday best, were their work wear. Most traditional dress seems (when I see it, as a folk dancer myself) to be based on the costume of the lower classes in the 19th century, those who didn't (couldn't) follow the international fashion. In most European countries, what you therefore get is peasant, farming costume and there is a noticeable division between groups that recreate "Sunday best" costumes and those that go for the basic out-all- day-in-the-fields outfits. I think Britain's industrialisation and urbanisation was so far ahead of other countries, perhaps that's why we have no convincing folk costumes, except those associated with specific trades which kept their "tribal" identity. You've suddenly sparked a thought in my head - why is there no traditional costume for miners? Do the morris groups that black their faces come from mining areas? (It's supposedly a throwback to the "moorish" origins of the dance, but we know how these age-old traditions arise spontaneously from Victorian historians ;-) ) I wonder ... Jean >-Poster: "LDMundy" > >Henk spoke about the passing down of dresses to later members of the family >and it reminded me of something similar that I had come across. A few years >ago a tourist event I saw a group of dancers from the North East UK ( rare >in itself as the NW has much stronger dance traditions); They told me that >there costume was based on the traditional costume of the regional >fishwives. The skirts were very heavy and made from frilled lateral sections >with enough length to fit people of around nine feet tall.. There were only >ever made in full adult size. When a young girl was old enough to work she >started to wear the dress, the extra length being collected up to hang from >the waist; As she grew this was lowered to fit ; They were very stiff >voluminous and practically waterproof., in fact just the thing for wearing >at dawn on a windy and wet fishdock gutting and packing fish. Over the top >was a large apron. They said that the originals were often handed down and >that there weres ome in a local museum (which I didnt get the chance to >see)I have not come across them since. or anything like them. >Do any members of the list know any more about this or any other instances >of workwear items becoming traditional. I can only think of Cornish smocks >and of course the Scottish woollens , all of which are associated with >fishing ; Any others. >Dave > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 16:34:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30977 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:34:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13601; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:52:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26413 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:47:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26407 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 15:47:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.200]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:42:11 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:48:15 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37ea5824.405186702@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <199909192045.QAA29453@bajor.ici.net> In-Reply-To: <199909192045.QAA29453@bajor.ici.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id PAA26408 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) There has been a lot of *really*uncharitable* slamming of this pattern in the past few days. I recall that a few months ago a letter written by the woman who designed this and the 'Shakespeare in Love' style pattern was posted to the list with her permission. In it, she explained that she was *unable* to get Simplicity to agree to a more accurate cut and method for either of them than is given in each pattern. She described the tug-of-war that she had to go thru just to get what we got. Remember also that modern pattern manufacturers ALWAYS put in ease, even if it is not intended in the fit of the garmetn as originally designed. In that earlier discussion it was surmised that the photo-stylist likely pinned in the dresses to fit the models as closely as the original design sketch showed the fit to be. You may not think that thses are up to exacting research/repro standards, but think before you slam them. Are they not better than many of the ones that came before? I think they are certainly a BIG improvement over the hollywood-medieval flared-sack with fur trim that most commercial mass market pattern companies gave us before. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 17:15:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31066 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:15:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17403; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:31:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00727 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:25:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00721 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:25:07 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6WSIspnii_ (4012) for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:24:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <141fcc7e.2516bca2@aol.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:24:34 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabeth R To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com Deborah, Thank you so much for pointing out to me my misinformation reguarding Janet Arnold and Eliz R, as I was told that she (Janet Arnold) had some hand in the design of the clothing....I guess ruffs aren't considered part of the clothing. I didn't know that BBC disbanded it's costume department, which makes me sad. Thank you very much, Charles _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 17:20:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31072 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:20:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17935; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:39:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01626 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:33:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01618 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:33:11 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6XEP07D20u (4012) for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:32:35 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Men's Costuming To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 9/18/99 5:49:13 PM !!!First Boot!!!, FJPalmer@earthlink.net writes: << My sewing is pretty good. I have made quite a few shirts and pants and tunics and a few Irishes and a couple Citons. But what is a bastard Houppelande? I have heard of a Houppelande. I could even get a pattern But the other I am not sure. Maykn :o) >> A Bastard houppelande is one that is or about ankle length, or so I have been taught and have read. The great houppelandes were ones that not only drug the ground, but actually made a respectable puddle of fabric at the feet. You can witness these in many Italian portraits. Riding houppelandes had to be shorter than even a bastard houppelande, and therefor were cut at the knees or perhaps a tad higher. If you study portaits from the 12th-15th centuries you can see the evolution of this garment. I don't know why they refered to the slightly shorter houppelande as a "bastard" houppelande, but then again why was a sword that was slightly shorter than a great sword called a "bastard" sword? Im not up on etymology of the English language, but it would be fascinating to know why "bastard" was applied. Chas _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 17:35:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA31106 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:34:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19210; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:52:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03291 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:47:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03284 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:46:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from xohgoynt ([62.252.36.103]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990919224222.KMVU15248.mta3-svc@xohgoynt> for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:42:22 +0100 Message-ID: <052e01bf02ef$65c65800$6724fc3e@xohgoynt> From: "emma smith" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Elizabeth R Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:08:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "emma smith" Uninteresting fact #1 some of the BBC costume types now work for the hire wardrobe of the Royal Shakespeare Company in Stratford, maybe that's why so much of thier kit is soooo fab emma ----- Original Message ----- From: Deborah Pulliam To: Sent: Friday, September 17, 1999 11:55 PM Subject: H-COST: Elizabeth R > > -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) > > < IMHO. That stands to reason as both Jean Hunniset and Janet Arnold had a > hand in the designing of the clothing. >> > > Janet did not design clothing for Elizabeth R, and she was always very > careful to point that out to people. She helped make the ruffs, which was > pretty much a lost art at the time of the filming. > > < mile and do the serious research required for the clothing of the time.>> > > Unfortunately, it is a long time ago that ER and Six Wives were made, and > times have changed considerably. Not the least in that BBC disbanded its > costume department several years ago. > > > De borah > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 18:13:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31170 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:12:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22715; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:30:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA07555 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:24:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07538 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:24:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem83.barney.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.83] helo=herimats) by mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11SqJz-0002zi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:24:40 +0100 Message-ID: <003501bf02f6$298a67d0$53075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <199909192028.QAA10405@hurontario.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: flying shuttle Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:46:38 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Thank you Vandy; Would not the Bronze Age width be possible because it was a simple vertical loom, so the operator stood up and could walk any distance while weaving. A horizontal Loom needs the feet to operate levers so the operator must be seated; which restricts the reach; As far as I remember anyway. Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters > -Poster: "Vandy Simpson" > > Greetings. > Well, since I actually have some reference books still upstairs, > (being filled with zeal after doing the Grand Encampment at > Louisbourg this summer) I can tell you that one book mentions: > "most successful of all attempts to accelerate the speed of hand > weaving was the fly shuttle, which was patented in 1733 by John > Kay, an English mechanic." However, and I'd have to find my > photocopies to check, I believe that in the book on Danish Bronze > Age Textiles, it mentions fabrics of 90inches. Of course, that may > just be senility. I'll find it and check, and it doesn't really address > what happened in between the Bronze Age and 1733. > Vandy Simpson > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 18:13:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31174 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:13:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22718; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:30:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA07556 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:24:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07544 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:24:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem83.barney.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.83] helo=herimats) by mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11SqK1-0002zi-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:24:41 +0100 Message-ID: <003601bf02f6$2a95bd50$53075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: workwear becomes traditional Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:09:36 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" ----- Original Message ----- > > -Poster: Jean Waddie > > You've suddenly sparked a thought in my head - why is there no > traditional costume for miners? Do the morris groups that black their > faces come from mining areas? (It's supposedly a throwback to the > "moorish" origins of the dance, but we know how these age-old traditions > arise spontaneously from Victorian historians ;-) ) I wonder ... > > Jean > Now theres a point. Musing ---The strongest regular Morris tradition come from very rural areas, Oxfordshire Cotswolds etc.so I suppose that' s because they have come down from the Old Horse societies , sort of masonic for people working with horses. The Clog Morris tends to come from the NW and is mainly industrial based. Another variant is seen in the only remaining team;; Brittania Cocunutters who have always blacked there faces and is purported to have its origins in the soldiers returning from the Zulu Wars. as can be seen from the costumes) Some morris teams only started blacking up all of the time within living memory. As most of these traditions are really ameans of organised begging ,to make extra money for holidays or beer, I supppose there was an element of disguise that made it useful; I can think of no area that has any form of troupe dancing tradition as well as mining activities; Mining areas seem to usually support brass bands, I think it was good exercise to clear congested lungs.. Have been a miner for short period many moons ago I can swear that when I got home I had no desire to go out and do any form of dancing; Because of lack of interest Morris and the Traditional Hero Combat Play or Mumming are fast being combined these days , where as I can remember when thety were quite distinct, albeit having a common Dionysian root. The Moor in the mumming play is more likely an influence than moors proper, in a more direct manner. But the whole thing is ever changing and hard to tie down. We now have many combined male/female dancing team whereas I can remember turning out to Fool for a ladies team and causing great anguish. Te sexes were very much separtated for many years. My partner , a singer , has in her repertoire a very sad song ; Its about the women stepping out to do the dancing , because all of the young men lay dead in France; Again its a lack of support that alters things. I think many of the tradition in these areas are a lot later than Victorian and many very recent. Dave > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 19:48:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31413 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:48:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01457; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:03:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18140 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:58:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com (imo-d05.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18135 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:58:26 -0600 (MDT) From: Elysant@aol.com Received: from Elysant@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6RPB0MzGqh (4556) for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:57:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:57:52 EDT Subject: H-COST: 14th century Dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elysant@aol.com -Poster: Irene leNoir wrote: <> Greetings milady and members of the list :-) I would very much like to make a 14th century dress (French or Anglo Norman) for an event I'm attending next month. I have not made anything from so late a period before (I'm usually 11 - 12th century) so I'm out of my depth here as to what would be appropriate (style as well as choice of fabric). I saw this thread and thought perhaps the Simplicity pattern might be a good basis for the project (I haven't seen the pattern yet). >From the discussion here, however, it seems that Simplicity 8725 would not be too accurate whether you use half or quarter circles, or add extra gores to the center front or back. :-( I have a princess line pattern, and if that would be more accurate, how would I adapt that to be as authentic as I could be for what I want? I have a few additional questions if I may. :-) Is what we're aiming for a cotehardie? What is a greenland gown? What fabrics would I use, and finally, what would make a cheerleader dress so suitable (or was that a humorous comment)? :-) Elysant de Holtham _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 19:48:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31417 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:48:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01460; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:03:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18171 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:58:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18155 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:58:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA04117 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-96.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.96]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA23589 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 17:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001c01bf0304$5e32c000$fc6ffea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentary was: Ever After Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 18:06:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" > > Do you want me to let you know what >>color it really is, if it turns out to be different? > >yeah that would be great, lol. We have a TV in the living room that is okay, we didn't have it at the time of the lightning. lol. I just am always in the office and never in the living rom at the time "Ever After" is on HBO. > > >Ever Yours, >Ginnaphure It is oatmeal. It looked like it could possibly be oatmeal or pale olive? Does that mean that all the white peoples faces look green too? :) That could be nauseating... Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 21:06:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31549 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:06:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09231; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:23:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA27731 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:19:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27723 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:18:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.3.23.212]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990920021857.VFHH29344.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@home.com> for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:18:57 -0700 Message-ID: <37E5998F.16B71B8D@home.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:18:55 -0400 From: Liz /cozit Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: tatting References: <199909191141.FAA23839@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Liz /cozit > > What citations does the author of your book give for her assertion that > needle tatting preceeded shuttle tatting? I have always assumed (dangerous, > I know ) that tatting developed from knotting, a popular craft in the > 17th & 18th centuries. Knotting used a larger, open-ended shuttle. The "fly > fringe" in the 18th century was apparently a patterned knotting (does anyone > have a reference to instructions for doing this?). I have only seen > references to tatting shuttles, not to tatting needles. > I can't add specific references, but I took a shuttle tatting class from someone at the first Spirit of Cross Stitch at Valley Forge. She, her daughter and the friend who was helping her teach the class collected antique tatting shuttles and needles, and they had done some research. There were definite references (pictoral and written) that the daughter had included in her book on beginning tatting (I *wish* I could remember the name...I still want to buy the book as I remember it explained things very well) to the fact that needle tatting came first. One of the probable explainations for the popularity and visibility of shuttle tatting taking off is that the shuttle is a considerably larger tool...therefore it can show off the wealth of the user better. Apparently once the upper classes took up tatting, having the latest, or the best decorated shuttle became a status thing (and you can only do so much on the space that a tatting needle/hook takes). One of the reasons there are portraits that were done with ladies displaying their shuttles prominently. Maybe this will sound familiar to someone who can help add to it? (Oh, and the book not only explained how to do the various necessary shuttle moves well, but it gave the descriptions for the given patterns both in a written form and in a clear pictoral graph as well as a photo of a sample.) -Elisabeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 21:17:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31574 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:17:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10309; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:35:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA29198 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:31:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tx.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29183 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:31:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a ([24.4.53.172]) by news.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990920023121.UKKY5655.news.rdc1.tx.home.com@c59303a> for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:31:21 -0700 Message-ID: <00b301bf0310$723b1d20$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:27:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Please remember folks that fabrics were not created in the widths that they are today. The reason for the strange shapes of period clothes is because of the width that a loom could make in that time period or the shape the fabric came to the person sewing the garment. The best example I can give from first hand knowledge is my grandmother. She made quilts for a living and she made them from the fabrics that were given to her. Most of the time they were dresses or sacks of cloth from flour or a very narrow sheet of fabric. So if they had the widths of fabric that we can get today you can bet the layout of the patterns would be vastly different. Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, September 19, 1999 7:57 PM Subject: H-COST: 14th century Dress : : -Poster: Elysant@aol.com : : -Poster: : : Irene leNoir wrote: : : <> : : Greetings milady and members of the list :-) : : I would very much like to make a 14th century dress (French or Anglo Norman) : for an event I'm attending next month. I have not made anything from so late : a period before (I'm usually 11 - 12th century) so I'm out of my depth here : as to what would be appropriate (style as well as choice of fabric). I saw : this thread and thought perhaps the Simplicity pattern might be a good basis : for the project (I haven't seen the pattern yet). : : >From the discussion here, however, it seems that Simplicity 8725 would not be : too accurate whether you use half or quarter circles, or add extra gores to : the center front or back. :-( I have a princess line pattern, and if that : would be more accurate, how would I adapt that to be as authentic as I could : be for what I want? : : I have a few additional questions if I may. :-) : : Is what we're aiming for a cotehardie? What is a greenland gown? What : fabrics would I use, and finally, what would make a cheerleader dress so : suitable (or was that a humorous comment)? :-) : : Elysant de _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 21:37:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31597 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:37:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12241; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:54:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA01315 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:50:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01307 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:50:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p43.directcon.net [206.170.184.92]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA06100 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:51:06 -0700 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:51:06 -0700 Message-Id: <199909200251.TAA06100@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson According to JA's: Queen Elizabeth's Wardrobe, >at that time period, fabric was sometimes made in 18 or 22 inch wide >pieces. > And still is, expecially specialty fabrics such as handwoven silks. Kimono fabrics are still made 14" wide. However, the idea that fabrics were only available in narrow widths is false. Wasn't "Broadcloth" was called that because it was woven on a very wide loom? I believe I've read that 60 inches or more was not uncommon. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 21:46:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31616 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:45:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA13180; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:03:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA02498 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:00:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02486 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:00:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k489.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.89]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id UAA24631 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:00:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E5A26C.333F@netwiz.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 19:56:44 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: loom width References: <00b301bf0310$723b1d20$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Susan Fatemi Franchesca Havas wrote: > > -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" > > Please remember folks that fabrics were not created in the widths that they > are today. The reason for the strange shapes of period clothes is because of > the width that a loom could make in that time period or the shape the Hand-woven Harris Tweeds are still only 28" wide. Many of the Chinese brocades available are only 30" (don't know that they're handwoven, tho') And of course, kimono fabrics, are 14" wide to this very day! Susan -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 22:03:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31632 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:03:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA14472; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:21:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA04611 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:16:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f31.hotmail.com [207.82.250.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA04600 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:16:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 6706 invoked by uid 0); 20 Sep 1999 03:16:42 -0000 Message-ID: <19990920031642.6705.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.47.105 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:16:39 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.47.105] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 20:16:39 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Exactly. Sometimes I have trouble using the right words in order to get my point across. :-) I'm much better with visual communication. Unfortunately this can't really be accomplished online unless one has special equipment. Thank you for helping with the translation. Lonna >From: Cynthia Virtue >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 16:39:49 -0400 > > >-Poster: Cynthia Virtue > >We may be in agreement -- but just in case we are not: > > > I think I understand what you're saying. Basically one would add a point >to > > the half circles so that they could be joined at the waist. > >The precise half circles (no additional cutting) which are sewn into the >straight/selvedge side seams either >1: are centered on the side seams, with the exact center of the circle >at the side seam and the straight edges are sewn to the body straight edges > >or, in the modified version, > >2: the point of a quarter-circle goes at the side seam, and the straight >edges again are sewn to the front and back panels, then you cut a slit >from the bottom CF and CB for the other two quarters remaining. > >Mind you, if I were to do this, I'd probably make each gore into two, so >that I could balance the bias directions. > >-- >It's nearly time for October Fools' Day -- the Southern Hemisphere >version of April Fools' Day. > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 23:18:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31701 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:18:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA20632; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:35:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12936 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:30:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f38.hotmail.com [207.82.250.49]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA12922 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:30:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 17496 invoked by uid 0); 20 Sep 1999 04:29:30 -0000 Message-ID: <19990920042930.17495.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.47.105 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:29:27 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.47.105] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: My apologies/Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:29:27 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Hullo all My apologies if I have offended anyone. I truly did not mean to start a bashing session. I was just mentioning the problems that I had run into when I used the pattern. I like the pattern. It has alot of possibilities, but it does need some adjustment for people who are short and who are more well-endowed. Also, even though I've been sewing for about 40 years, I'm still a novice in pattern drafting. This is why I asked the questions I did on adaptation as well as on layout, cut, and fabric width. And, yes, it is a large step in the right direction for a more authentic look. I had a feeling that Simplicty was the one that was dragging its heels and that the designer, was not at fault; which is why my remarks were directed towards the corporation, not the human being involved. I wish she had had more control over her design. However, I am also very thankful for what she was able to get Simplicity to agree to. At least there's a foundation for newby pattern-drafters like me to build on so that we can adapt the pattern more to our needs without starting from scratch. Unfortunately, since I'm new here, I missed her posting from a few months back. Does anyone still have a copy that they are willing to forward to my private e-mail? I would dearly like to read it. Again, my apologies for any offense that I may have caused. Lonna >From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 >Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:48:15 GMT > > >-Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) > > >There has been a lot of *really*uncharitable* slamming of this pattern >in the past few days. > >I recall that a few months ago a letter written by the woman who >designed this and the 'Shakespeare in Love' style pattern was posted >to the list with her permission. In it, she explained that she was >*unable* to get Simplicity to agree to a more accurate cut and method >for either of them than is given in each pattern. She described the >tug-of-war that she had to go thru just to get what we got. > >Remember also that modern pattern manufacturers ALWAYS put in ease, >even if it is not intended in the fit of the garmetn as originally >designed. In that earlier discussion it was surmised that the >photo-stylist likely pinned in the dresses to fit the models as >closely as the original design sketch showed the fit to be. > >You may not think that thses are up to exacting research/repro >standards, but think before you slam them. Are they not better than >many of the ones that came before? I think they are certainly a BIG >improvement over the hollywood-medieval flared-sack with fur trim that >most commercial mass market pattern companies gave us before. > >Margery >"Do you have any files?" >"We're the government, of course we have files." >Millenium >{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 23:51:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31826 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:51:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA22507; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:09:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA16626 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:04:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16618 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:04:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-31.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FIC00661E2DA4@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:03:52 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:03:52 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <37E5C038.AAACF191@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199909191926.NAA09441@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson <"Henk 't Jong" > > Not much more than you, and certainly less than Marc and Robin. I don't know about that. I try to restrict myself to only discussing those garments we actually have physical examples of. What the pictures show or don't show is pretty much beyond my expertise. >Apart from the use of buttons, these costumes don't look typically >14th c. The width of them and the use of narrow gores is more 13th c >and earlier than 13th c. It may be, though, that in circles of farmers >and small craftsmen the 13th c manners of garment making kept going >strong, especailly in out of the way places with no access to fashion >statements by the nobility or rich merchant class... I'm not sure I agree with that. Certainly the 14th century is a period (like the 20th century) of stylistic changes, but the use of gores/side panels and such seems pretty normal. If we look at the Bocksten cote (c.1350), the Moy gown (my guess is mid to late 1300s based on the Pourpoint of Charles of Blois (Before 1364)), the Uppsala gown (c1403-1439), Moselund cote (mid-late 14th c), Ronbjerg cote (mid-late 14th c), and the reconstruction of St. Birgitta's dress (c1330s), the garments from Herjolfnes are not atypical. The Moy gown, for example, which has shoulders and sleeve construction similar to the Blois garment, appears to have at least one long thin gore/side panel (and perhaps two, since the smaller side "gore" looks like it could have been a continuation of an underarm "dart" that might have been altered) similar to the grouped panels on the H38/41. It also has matched rear (and presumably balancing front) "gores". The Uppsala gown has no gores, but clearly the loom used to make the material was considerably wider than that used in the earlier gowns. It retains the rather full skirt coming off a fairly fitted bodice. The Bocksten cote, if the hypothesis that it was worn by a royal representative who is known to have dissapeared in the 1360s is correct, would be an example of an everyday garment worn by an upperclass individual. Since the last (documented) contact with the Greenland community was in about 1409, that pretty much is a stylistic end date for influence from the continent. The merchant group that visited at that time were regular travelers to and from the Royal court in Norway, so it may be assumed that their clothes were fairly current stylistically. > So what do you think, Marc? I think that, based on other examples of isolated communities (for example, settlers in the American West), the desire to maintain a feeling of continuity of identity with "Civilization" can be quite strong, and one way of doing this is in dress style. So, while they may have had their own way of doing things (e.g. false seams rather than always using separate pieces) as a general thing, they can be used as a marker for what styles were current - at least in Scandinavia. Now, it may be that there were some areas where the Scandinavians were "behind the times" as compared with, say, France or Germany, but that's really beyond my current knowledge to say. marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 19 23:58:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31848 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:58:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23264; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:17:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA17714 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:13:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17708 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:13:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-31.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FIC006E5EHC4S@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:12:50 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:12:52 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <37E5C254.42A105AB@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199909200430.WAA12995@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson >...What is a greenland gown? What fabrics would I use... A "Greenland Dress" usually refers to a dress found in the large dig in a cemetary in Herjolfsnes on the southern tip of Greenland. Most often this is used to refer to the basic design of two (or three) of them, nos. 38 (39) and 41, with two waist high "gores" in front, and two more in back, and 4 gores/side panels on each side that reach to the arm hole. It is the shaped form of these garments which are often likened to the "princess line" style. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 00:17:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA31880 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:17:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24392; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:33:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA19354 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:28:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.inreach.com (mail2.inreach.com [209.142.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19349 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:28:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (209-142-41-54.stk.inreach.net [209.142.41.54]) by smtp.inreach.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25616 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:13:22 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E5C533.1886E04E@inreach.com> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:25:08 -0700 From: Diana H Organization: Well, I wouldn't call it organized...... X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Modification of pseudo-Italian-Ren X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Diana H Jennifer Arnott wrote: > The overdress is one of those "Shoulder straps" and a sort of > half-bodice > and split skirt. It laces with .. oh, 5 or 6 grommets below the > breasts, > but there's no fabric in the over dress above the breasts. It's meant > to be > worn over a chemise and/or underdress. The fabric is a deep rust > colored > brocade, mid-weight. > Okay, I will give this one a shot...... Firstly, The garment sounds more Middle Eastern or Irish in appearance. Early Italian Renn has usually a solid, softly rounded bodice piece that either laces on the side or in the back. The necklines on these are usually up to about 2-3 inches below your collarbone. The bodice *definitely* covers the breast area. I could go on but I will spare you the full details unless you still want them in which case you are welcome to contact me privately. I would be happy to forward some online portrait URL's to show you the styles. I would recommend that you use it as a Middle Eastern style garment and buy/make some harem pants and get a harem shirt to wear with it. Then, of course, all the silver jewelry you can stand ;~> Diana :~> (the non-famous lurker who knows a bit about Italian Renn) -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "There are too many mediocre things in life to deal with.....Love shouldn't be one of them." --Ione Skye in "Dream for an Insomniac" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 00:23:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA31906 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:23:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA24985; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:41:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA20137 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:37:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f221.hotmail.com [207.82.251.112]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA20132 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:37:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 21107 invoked by uid 0); 20 Sep 1999 05:37:23 -0000 Message-ID: <19990920053723.21106.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.47.105 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:37:21 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.47.105] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Questions?/Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 22:37:21 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Hullo Sorry to interrupt your correspondence, but this is something that I am very interested in and I would like to learn more. Are there any pictures of these cotes? Or any exhibits that are open to the public? Can you suggest some books that I might read? I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but this is how I learn. :-) Any information given would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Lonna >From: Marc Carlson >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:03:52 -0500 > > >-Poster: Marc Carlson > ><"Henk 't Jong" > > > Not much more than you, and certainly less than Marc and Robin. > >I don't know about that. I try to restrict myself to only discussing >those garments we actually have physical examples of. What the >pictures show or don't show is pretty much beyond my expertise. > > >Apart from the use of buttons, these costumes don't look typically >14th >c. The width of them and the use of narrow gores is more 13th c > >and earlier than 13th c. It may be, though, that in circles of farmers > >and small craftsmen the 13th c manners of garment making kept going > >strong, especailly in out of the way places with no access to fashion > >statements by the nobility or rich merchant class... > >I'm not sure I agree with that. Certainly the 14th century is a >period (like the 20th century) of stylistic changes, but the use of >gores/side panels and such seems pretty normal. > >If we look at the Bocksten cote (c.1350), the Moy gown (my guess is >mid to late 1300s based on the Pourpoint of Charles of Blois (Before >1364)), the Uppsala gown (c1403-1439), Moselund cote (mid-late 14th >c), Ronbjerg cote (mid-late 14th c), and the reconstruction of St. >Birgitta's dress (c1330s), the garments from Herjolfnes are not >atypical. > >The Moy gown, for example, which has shoulders and sleeve construction >similar to the Blois garment, appears to have at least one long thin >gore/side panel (and perhaps two, since the smaller side "gore" looks >like it could have been a continuation of an underarm "dart" that >might have been altered) similar to the grouped panels on the H38/41. >It also has matched rear (and presumably balancing front) "gores". > >The Uppsala gown has no gores, but clearly the loom used to make the >material was considerably wider than that used in the earlier gowns. >It retains the rather full skirt coming off a fairly fitted bodice. > >The Bocksten cote, if the hypothesis that it was worn by a royal >representative who is known to have dissapeared in the 1360s is >correct, would be an example of an everyday garment worn by an >upperclass individual. > >Since the last (documented) contact with the Greenland community was >in about 1409, that pretty much is a stylistic end date for influence >from the continent. The merchant group that visited at that time were >regular travelers to and from the Royal court in Norway, so it may be >assumed that their clothes were fairly current stylistically. > > > So what do you think, Marc? > >I think that, based on other examples of isolated communities (for >example, settlers in the American West), the desire to maintain a >feeling of continuity of identity with "Civilization" can be quite >strong, and one way of doing this is in dress style. So, while they >may have had their own way of doing things (e.g. false seams rather >than always using separate pieces) as a general thing, they can be >used as a marker for what styles were current - at least in >Scandinavia. > >Now, it may be that there were some areas where the Scandinavians were >"behind the times" as compared with, say, France or Germany, but >that's really beyond my current knowledge to say. > >marc > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 01:28:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA31963 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 01:28:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27562; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:45:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA26644 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:40:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f318.hotmail.com [207.82.250.238]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA26632 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 00:40:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 98851 invoked by uid 0); 20 Sep 1999 06:40:14 -0000 Message-ID: <19990920064014.98850.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 208.150.193.57 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:40:14 PDT X-Originating-IP: [208.150.193.57] From: "Lecelina O'Brian Of Mount Shannon" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Modification of pseudo-Italian-Ren Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 23:40:14 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Lecelina O'Brian Of Mount Shannon" Diana, Is that offer open to anyone? I like the style I have the simplicity patterns trying to do the best I can to make it some what close to period, any help is appreciated. Lady Lecelina ****** I would be happy to forward some online portrait URL's to show you the styles.***** Diana :~> (the non-famous lurker who knows a bit about Italian Renn) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 03:29:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA28457 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 03:29:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03144; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:45:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA06689 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:40:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (mta2.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.123]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA06674 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 02:40:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-69-133.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.69.133]) by mta2.snfc21.pbi.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20376; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 01:40:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E59183.DE7E56A9@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 01:44:42 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU, h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Book Review? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, I was doing some browsing and came across the following book. Would someone who has knowledge of it be willing to give a review? Dress in the Middle Ages Francoise Piponnier Perrine Mane Caroline Beamish (Translator) Format: Hardcover, 167pp. ISBN: 0300069065 Publisher: Yale University Press Pub. Date: December 1997 Thank you, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 07:33:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28756 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:33:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12860; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:40:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA17743 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:36:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA17738 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:36:13 -0600 (MDT) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6GYCa11201 (4415) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:35:37 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Hair color To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com In a message dated 9/17/99 9:47:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lilinah@grin.net writes: << Henna is powdered leaves (and stems?) which looks medium green powder. You mix it with hot water, and it starts to turn red-brown. >> Actually the color it turns depends on the color of henna you use. If you use neutral or golden henna it stays a grey-green. It is a very messy process. It's a little less messy and a little more effective to put a plastic shower cap over your head once its coated with the henna mud. I find the golden henna brightens my hair as well as giving me a lot more strength, body and thickness. The golden henna I use is mixed with marigolds which, like camomile, have been used for a long time for a blond coloring. Cheers, Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 07:34:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28769 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:34:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10210; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:06:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA14350 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:01:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14344 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:01:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.210.93] (ell237.acadia.net [205.217.210.93]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA14045 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:10:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:00:20 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: shuttles Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) << One of the reasons there are portraits that were done with ladies displaying their shuttles prominently.>> Once again, the prominently displayed shuttles in 18c portraits are all *knotting* shuttles, which are not the same as tatting shuttles. Deb orah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 07:34:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28772 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:34:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07455; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:23:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA10993 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:18:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com (smtp6.mindspring.com [207.69.200.74]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10986 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 05:18:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-33qsdt8.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.55.168]) by smtp6.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA21267 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00fc01bf035a$01a39160$a837aec7@oemcomputer> From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" To: Subject: H-COST: Millenium Clarification Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:19:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" -----Original Message----- From: Julie Adams To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, September 17, 1999 22:44 Subject: Re: BP (was H-COST: Canadian Iceman update - OT) > >-Poster: Julie Adams > > >Um, no its not. Jan1, 2000 is the beginning of the new millenium, but this >is way too off topic for this list... Anyone curious needs to review some >graphs and mathmatics... > >Julie Adams the first day of the new millenium is Jan 1, 2001. We're in the 20th Century, but the year is 1999, right? That's because when the current calender was formulated, they started at the 1st century AD, but didn't start at year 101. They started at year 1. Therefore, the centuries are one ahead of the years, and end on the 00's (has to to have a full 100 years in it). It went 1-100. then 101-200 ad nauseam. But the centuries went 1st cent (1-100), 2nd (101-200) and so on. It didn't start on year zero as is the common theory, it's just that to get the centuries lined up, they would have had to add a 100 to the year to match. People tend to start on 1, not zero. (Think about how you count things. If you have 15 apples you don't start with zero apples, one apple.... you start on 1. Same with years.) Sorry if this sounds oversimplified (its not really, just worder simply). This is how I had to explain it to my sister's Honors history class last year. Anya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 08:03:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28948 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:03:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16921; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:19:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA22119 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:14:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA22113 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:14:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990920132404.9861.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:24:04 PDT Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:24:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Books To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sarah Toney Okay, you had the magical words "drafting your own patterns"... I will have to pick this up... thanks Fran! Sarah > > The web site can probably explain that, at least for > starters . . . > > http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm > > Fran > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 08:10:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28960 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:10:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17933; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:27:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA23292 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:23:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ionet.net (root@mail.ionet.net [206.41.128.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23284 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:23:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from buck (ip88.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.88]) by ionet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id IAA06826 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:22:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002e01bf036a$e2abf480$583d1d26@buck> From: "Dean Quackenbush" To: References: <19990920031642.6705.qmail@hotmail.com> Subject: H-COST: How white was white? Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 06:20:17 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" I was told recently that 16th century chemise could not possibly have been white because there was no such thing as bleach. All my sources refer to the material used as being various shades of white or neutral. So what do you all think? How white could a cotton or silk chemise be? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 08:38:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29051 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:38:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20887; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:55:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA27070 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:50:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com (imo-d01.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.33]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27063 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 07:50:07 -0600 (MDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6OYX0AGOCK (4566) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:49:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:49:30 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: How white was white? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 9/20/99 7:27:04 AM Mountain Daylight Time, deanq@paloverde.com writes: << How white could a cotton or silk chemise be? >> I wonder if they used fuller's earth like the Romans did on their togas. But I don't know. Cheryl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 09:00:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29117 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:00:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23068; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:18:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00913 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:12:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00903 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:12:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA27544 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:12:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA23143 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:13:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:13:17 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How white was white? In-Reply-To: <002e01bf036a$e2abf480$583d1d26@buck> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed White linens weren't "optic white", that's true, but they were quite bright. They may not have had bleach as we know it, but several substances which functioned as bleaching products were known in the 16th century. For myself, I choose whites on the "warm" side of the spectrum--leaning towards the creams--rather than those with bluish tinges for my coifs, shifts, etc. Drea On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Dean Quackenbush wrote: > > -Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" > > I was told recently that 16th century chemise could not possibly have been > white because there was no such thing as bleach. All my sources refer to > the material used as being various shades of white or neutral. So what do > you all think? How white could a cotton or silk chemise be? > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 09:11:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29156 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:11:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24268; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:29:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03212 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:25:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03188 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:25:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06751 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:24:26 -0400 Message-ID: <37E6439B.62CB29E0@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:24:29 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How white was white? References: <19990920031642.6705.qmail@hotmail.com> <002e01bf036a$e2abf480$583d1d26@buck> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Silk can naturally get to a creamy color, I believe, and if you sun-bleached it, you might well get white. And although they may not have had chlorine bleach, there may be other bleaching agents available. cv _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 09:18:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29160 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:18:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25318; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:36:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04542 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:32:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de (mail.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE [130.149.4.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA04483 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:31:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from coal.bg.tu-berlin.de ([130.149.43.192]) by mail.zrz.tu-berlin.de with smtp (EXIM-3.03) for id 11T4Tw-0003lV-00; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:31:52 +0200 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990920162926.00b5e440@130.149.12.212> X-Sender: barbara@130.149.12.212 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:29:26 +0200 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Barbara Maren Winkler Subject: Re: H-COST: workwear becomes traditional In-Reply-To: <199909192248.QAA03508@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Barbara Maren Winkler >- -Poster: Jean Waddie > >It kind of depends what you call workwear. Until quite recently, the >_working_ classes had so little leisure time, I doubt they came home >from work and changed into other clothes for the evening. In other >words, the clothes they wore all the time, except for Sunday best, were >their work wear. Most traditional dress seems (when I see it, as a folk >dancer myself) to be based on the costume of the lower classes in the >19th century, those who didn't (couldn't) follow the international >fashion. In most European countries, what you therefore get is peasant, >farming costume and there is a noticeable division between groups that >recreate "Sunday best" costumes and those that go for the basic out-all- >day-in-the-fields outfits. I think Britain's industrialisation and >urbanisation was so far ahead of other countries, perhaps that's why we >have no convincing folk costumes, except those associated with specific >trades which kept their "tribal" identity. According to the short history of Bavarian folk costume (Tracht, in German) I found in a living history museum last week: The basic form of both work and "Sunday best" costume of the lower classes developed as always: The lower classes copying the higher ones... as soon as they were allowed to. That's why Bavarian knee-length Lederhosen (after 1789 French revolution) resemble culottes, the knee-length pants of the French (and other) nobility. Then came the 19th century and industrialization and as a backlash the romantic movement, and urban middle class people went to the country to find an "original" "true" folk style, in search of "nature" and sometimes a local/national identity. That's how the "Sunday best" costumes became much more ornate and elaborate, and during the course of the century, more and more fixed in one state, erroneously assuming that it had "always been so". Folk costume became something to show off and to show your identity with. Early industrialisation and urbanisation both expelled folk costume (as everyday work wear) and created it (in a counter-reaction as a special rural holiday dress with local tradition). Bavaria has a proud tradition of folk costume, the area where I live (Berlin, Germany) has hardly any, except in the remote Sorbic (slavic) areas. This may have to do with (lack of) urbanization. But folk costume in the way we know it now is not very old and does not precede industrialization -- it was created during the late 18th and all through the 19th century, maybe in opposition to urban fashion development. >You've suddenly sparked a thought in my head - why is there no >traditional costume for miners? There isn't? Here, even today, our mining students who are in the mining fraternity take their oral exams wearing "Bergkittel", a special traditional miner's kind of frock. These frocks differ by region. In their fraternity house they have a series of pictures of miners showing the different costumes in different times (and regions). (In Germany.) Barbara Maren -- Barbara Maren Winkler barbara@math.tu-berlin.de _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 09:27:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29208 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:27:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26513; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:45:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06708 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:42:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06697 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FID00AO84SQOR@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:41:14 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:49:45 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: Questions?/Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns In-reply-to: <199909201413.IAA00936@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990920094945.007a68b0@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marc Carlson <"L.L. Johnson" > >Sorry to interrupt your correspondence, but this is something that I am very >interested in and I would like to learn more. Are there any pictures of >these cotes? Or any exhibits that are open to the public? Can you suggest >some books that I might read? I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but this >is how I learn. :-) > >Any information given would be greatly appreciated. Certainly. All the information I currently have, including sources, and so forth are at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/cloth/bockhome.html. This changes as I learn more. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 09:27:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29209 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:27:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA26477; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:45:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA06499 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:41:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA06492 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:41:01 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6MXZmvrMv_ (3879) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:40:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <299b9a70.2517a156@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:40:22 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re:simplicity and 14th-century dress To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com I have the Simplicity pattern because I like the sleeve. (No matter how many times I've tried, I've never been able to draft a sleeve with a center back seam that looks decent or works right. It doesn's seem that that should be a problem, but for me it is.) I have to modify that pattern too, because it is extremely tight -- obviously not meant to be worn over a shift with sleeves, as I wear my gowns. The body is the right shape but not the authentic construction. Anyway, this is how I make a 14th-century fitted dress. I do not use princess seams because I hate sewing and that is way too many seams. I use a four-piece pattern I made myself long ago by (this was in the SCA "Known World Handbook") putting a fitted shirt and a pair of jeans on a piece of paper and tracing them. Cut a little flare into the skirt, don't make it completely straight on the sides. You get the shoulder position and basic waist. Then, you cut a muslin really big. Then you fiddle with it by sewing the shoulders and side seams until it fits and you can still get it over your head. This is good for a shift pattern or camping clothes. THEN, you make a paper pattern of this. Mark where your hip line is. Cut all four panels out of the fabric you plan to use. It will look tiny. CUT IT BIGGER than the pattern. I usually cut 2 inch seam allowances, figuring that will take care of the way most fabrics drape and sew up. Start pinning, and then basting. Don't sew any lower down than your hips. Get the back and the sides right, and pin the front closed. Then open the side seam and work on the front seam. For my figure (hourglass), I've found that sewing the front seam and having a side closure works much better than a front closure. If you have any bust at all, interline or line the front down to your hips. Do all this with a t-shirt on (or the actual shift) so that it isn't skin tight. You have to have a shift for the thing to look right, in my opinion. Unless you have a small bust and don't have to worry about it, pay special attention to the bust. If it sags, you've just lost the look. If you have a really big bust, you'll probably need princess seams after all. I also add a plain old band of fabric to the inside dress front, sewed into the underarms. Sort of a medieval Wonderbra. I heard a SCA person explain it a long time ago but I've never seen how it was done, I just worked it out for myself. It works! When you've got it fit right, make gores to go in all four seams: front, back, and sides. You get to do some geometry here. Simply make the gores as wide as you can. Cut them out this way (sorry, can't do ASCII art): Measure the length of the gore you need from hip to floor. Draw two rectangles on your folded fabric, each that length plus your personal favorite seam allowance. Make a diagonal line through each rectangle. That gives you four triangles. Using a string or straight edge, make a curve from the sides of each rectangle to the diagonal line. Ta da, you have four gores. Two should be on the fold line, and two will need a center seam. There you have it: a fitted gown with a huge skirt. Of course, you still have to do the arms, my personal bane. And if you want another fitted gown on top of that one, a perfectly authentic thing to do, you have to do the same thing with even bigger seam allowances, tried on over the undergown. Good luck! Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 09:48:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29278 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:48:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00136; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:07:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA11787 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:02:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA11781 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:02:17 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6PCLa12367 (4232) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:01:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:01:42 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: How white was white? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com How early are the bleaching fields so prevalent in the 18th century for bleaching linens "white white"? Sally Costume Calendar Series Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 10:20:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29363 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:20:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05812; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:39:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA20646 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:35:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20635 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:35:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA29364; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E654AB.985C3198@serv.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:37:15 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentary was: Ever After References: <001c01bf0304$5e32c000$fc6ffea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > It is oatmeal. It looked like it could possibly be oatmeal or pale olive? > Does that mean that all the white peoples faces look green too? :) That > could be nauseating... Regarding the dress she is wearing during the Prince's Fight. The dress she *was* wearing before she climbed the tree is a pale blue brocade. What she is wearing during the fight is her underwear, chemise. With a stiffened underbodice. And it is an unbleached linen color. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 10:32:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29372 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:32:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09108; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:52:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA24622 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:48:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24610 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:48:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.net (ip221.an5-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.16.221]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17286 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E657BA.BCD9043F@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:50:20 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: historic costume Subject: H-COST: width of cloth Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson - -Poster: "LDMundy" The width of cloth was limited by the width of the loom , so you could reach either side for the shuttle. It was only with the introduction a spring arrangement at the end of a piece of string that made it possible to weave wider cloth; Sorry, but this isn't entirely accurate. The introduction of the two-man horizontal loom in the thirteenth century made possible the weaving of "broadcloth." According to John Munro, even before the introduction of the horizontal loom--probably in the eleventh century in Northern Europe--there were two-person warp-weighted looms, which were producing cloth of roughly 2 yards in width. The broadloom produced cloths of 2 to 3 yards in width. Standard width in medieval Flanders was 3.5 ells, which is roughly 2.75 yards--finished and fulled, a standard late Flemish luxury broadcloth would be about 21 yards long by 1.8 yards wide. This is all from the John Munro article on "Textile Technology in the Middle Ages" which I mentioned in an earlier post (from *The Dictionary of the Middle Ages,* ed. Joseph Strayer, in the "Scandinavian Languages to Textiles" volume. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 10:33:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29379 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:33:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09417; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:53:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA25195 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:49:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25171 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:49:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.210.93] (ell264.acadia.net [205.217.210.120]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA20292 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:58:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:47:43 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: How white was white? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> This doesn't follow. They may not have had chlorine bleach, but chlorine bleach isn't the only way to whiten things. Linen in particular whitens fairly easily just by drying in the sun. There's no doubt they had plenty of white linen and white silk. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 10:37:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29383 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:37:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10253; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:57:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA26606 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:53:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26594 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:53:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA00105; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E658D7.66BA6F86@serv.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 08:55:03 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Bornover X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: My apologies/Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 References: <19990920042930.17495.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > Unfortunately, since I'm new here, I missed her posting from a few months > back. Does anyone still have a copy that they are willing to forward to my > private e-mail? I would dearly like to read it. > Again, my apologies for any offense that I may have caused. Dear lady, simply bringing up a topic or asking a question does not make you responsible for the comments of others. Thank you for your apology but you do not owe one in my estimation. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 11:33:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29469 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:33:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20691; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:50:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12397 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:46:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12390 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:46:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from martha (209-122-223-210.s210.tnt3.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.223.210]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA27440 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004901bf0387$a7de5f60$d2df7ad1@martha> From: "Martha Kelly" To: Subject: H-COST: Shift query Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:46:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0046_01BF0366.1FD0FA40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Martha Kelly" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01BF0366.1FD0FA40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just went to the Ingres exhibit at the Costume Institute of the = Metropolitan. What a pretty show! Two whole cases were devoted to = mid-nineteenth century underwear - super, since I'm in the process of = making a set. I highly recommend this show, called something like = "Ingres in Fashion," to anyone who happens in be in New York. Have you = seen the book by Aileen Riberio? Anyway - I have a question about the mid nineteenth century shift. Most = of the examples I've seen have a reinforcement around the underarm. = It's about 2" wide and made of the same fabric as the shift. What's = this for? Is it to keep the corset from wearing through? The sleeve = and its gusset would take care of the perspiration absorption problem, = right? This reinforcement piece seems too large just to strengthen the = point of the gusset. Can anyone explain this to me? Thanks Martha K ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01BF0366.1FD0FA40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I just went to the Ingres exhibit at = the Costume=20 Institute of the Metropolitan. What a pretty show!  Two whole cases = were=20 devoted to mid-nineteenth century underwear - super, since I'm in the = process=20 of making a set. I highly recommend this show, called something like = "Ingres in=20 Fashion," to anyone who happens in be in New York. Have you seen the = book by=20 Aileen Riberio?
 
Anyway - I have a question about the = mid nineteenth=20 century shift.  Most of the examples I've seen have a reinforcement = around=20 the underarm.  It's about 2" wide and made of the same fabric as = the=20 shift.  What's this for?  Is it to keep the corset from = wearing=20 through?  The sleeve and its gusset would take care of the = perspiration=20 absorption problem, right?  This reinforcement piece seems too = large just=20 to strengthen the point of the gusset. Can anyone explain this to=20 me?
 
Thanks
 
Martha K
------=_NextPart_000_0046_01BF0366.1FD0FA40-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 11:34:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29475 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:33:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21100; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:53:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA13160 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:49:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.vcnet.com (mailadm@mail.vcnet.com [209.239.239.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13153 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:49:25 -0600 (MDT) From: KaosWarior@vcnet.com Received: from [209.239.238.125] by mail.vcnet.com (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-39954U2500L250S0) with SMTP id AAA8651; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:49:23 -0700 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:50:09 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Millenium Clarification (OT) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: KaosWarior@vcnet.com >the first day of the new millenium is Jan 1, 2001. We're in the 20th >Century, but the year is 1999, right? That's because when the current >calender was formulated, they started at the 1st century AD, but didn't >start at year 101. They started at year 1. Therefore, the centuries are one >ahead of the years, and end on the 00's (has to to have a full 100 years in >it). It went 1-100. then 101-200 ad nauseam. But the centuries went 1st cent >(1-100), 2nd (101-200) and so on. It didn't start on year zero as is the >common theory, it's just that to get the centuries lined up, they would have >had to add a 100 to the year to match. People tend to start on 1, not zero. >(Think about how you count things. If you have 15 apples you don't start >with zero apples, one apple.... you start on 1. Same with years.) > >Sorry if this sounds oversimplified (its not really, just worder simply). >This is how I had to explain it to my sister's Honors history class last >year. > >Anya You don't know how relieved I am that there are other people out there who understand reality! I've tried the analogy of money with somewhat shakey convictions. if you compare years to money by accepting the possibility that there are only 100 days in a year. Jan. 1, 2000 would be like having $1999.01, you don't have a full $2000 yet! And besides the dating system is arbitrary any way. No one knew that just because one person had been born and who's life would have such a signifcant impact on the world that there was supposed to be a change in the way in how time was dated. The real significance of our Year 2000 is simply a electronic/mechanical gliche & not much more. On the Jewish calendar its something like year 5763 (give or take a few years) ;-) And they have been measuring time for a long, long, long time! Some 57 hundred plus years now ;-) So in IMHreality the "hype" that is going around is just that, HYPE! lots of people saw an opportunity to make $$$ & the vocal majority latched on like a pitbull to a passing victim! (oh, am I going to get it for that one) what amazes me most is that these are otherwise "intelligent" people who are buying into this crap! Take for example M&Ms they are touting that theirs is the candy of the new millenium, because M is the roman numeral for one thousand. But in truth their MM would really stand for the candy of the old millenium ;-) So if I want to have a big blow out this year it will be with the understanding that this is the "begining of the end" & not the end! I apologise if I offend with this message as OT, but they disagree otherwise... This is just my Opinion like it or not, I'm sticking to it! C-YA!!!!!! Scott ;-) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 11:45:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29498 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:45:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22634; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:03:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA15856 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:59:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15827 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:59:12 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnoraK@aol.com Received: from AnnoraK@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6UASa08846 (3979) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:58:37 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:58:36 EDT Subject: H-COST: Pilot Cloth? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AnnoraK@aol.com I was flipping thru a Burda magazine the other day, and the fabric recommended for one of their projects (a cold weather coat) was "pilot cloth." What is this? Thanks! --Jen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 11:53:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29507 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:53:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23985; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:11:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18074 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:07:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18056 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:07:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [166.70.12.35] (helo=[166.70.12.212]) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11T6uL-0007cu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:07:17 -0600 X-Sender: Francesca.da.Bari@pop.netaddress.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:19:01 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Karalee Larsen Pugmire Subject: Re: H-COST: How white was white? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Karalee Larsen Pugmire >-Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) > ><white because there was no such thing as bleach. >> > >This doesn't follow. They may not have had chlorine bleach, but chlorine >bleach isn't the only way to whiten things. > >Linen in particular whitens fairly easily just by drying in the sun. > >There's no doubt they had plenty of white linen and white silk. > > >Deborah Before chemical bleach, people used to stretch huge amounts of fabric out in the sun and sunbleach cloth white. It got very white but took a long time. Several weeks at least. I think the places were call Fuller's feilds. The innovation of chemical bleach, which was cheaper, and a good deal faster, didn't occur until the Victorian period. When this occured the land that had been used for bleaching was put to the plow and food prices dropped. (I think I saw this on one of the Connections shows.) Francesca da Bari Cote du Ciel (Logan, Utah) Francesca.da.Bari _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 11:53:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29511 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:53:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23924; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:11:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18039 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:07:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.xmission.com (mail.xmission.com [198.60.22.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18023 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:07:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [166.70.12.35] (helo=[166.70.12.212]) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11T6uI-0007cu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:07:14 -0600 X-Sender: Francesca.da.Bari@pop.netaddress.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37E657BA.BCD9043F@earthlink.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:12:58 -0600 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Karalee Larsen Pugmire Subject: Re: H-COST: width of cloth Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Karalee Larsen Pugmire >-Poster: Laurel Wilson > >- -Poster: "LDMundy" > >The width of cloth was limited by the width of the loom , so you could reach >either side for the shuttle. It was only with the introduction a spring >arrangement at the end of a piece of string that made it possible to weave >wider cloth; > > >Sorry, but this isn't entirely accurate. The introduction of the two-man >horizontal loom in the thirteenth century made possible the weaving of >"broadcloth." According to John Munro, even before the introduction of the >horizontal loom--probably in the eleventh century in Northern Europe--there >were two-person warp-weighted looms, which were producing cloth of roughly 2 >yards in width. The broadloom produced cloths of 2 to 3 yards in width. >Standard width in medieval Flanders was 3.5 ells, which is roughly 2.75 >yards--finished and fulled, a standard late Flemish luxury broadcloth would be >about 21 yards long by 1.8 yards wide. > >This is all from the John Munro article on "Textile Technology in the Middle >Ages" which I mentioned in an earlier post (from *The Dictionary of the Middle >Ages,* ed. Joseph Strayer, in the "Scandinavian Languages to Textiles" volume. > > >Lauri I just wish to second this with a second reference: _The Italian Cotton industry in the later Middle Ages 1100-1600_ by Maureen Fennel Mazzaoui. Published by Cambridge UP in 1981. The middle section discusses several of the looms and other devices needed in these years to produce cheap, but good quality fine cotton as well as sail canvas and so on. I remember a specific reference to the double loom and to the fact that one weaver was comissioned to make two lenghths of cloth fit together in the middle so that it could be sold as double loomed cloth. Chapter 4 specifically talks about the Techology used in production of cloth. In this case it is generic with a slant towards cotton cloth production. Francesca da Bari Cote du Ciel (Logan, Utah) Francesca.da.Bari _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 12:44:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29627 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:44:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02951; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:04:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01197 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:59:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01185 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:59:49 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id ELYSVN88; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:59:42 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:54:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Questions?/Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns Message-ID: <19990920.125416.-289647.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com I just checked Marc's site out and I think that it's terrific. My only comment is "More, more!" Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 13:17:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29682 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:17:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08330; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:37:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09319 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:33:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ionet.net (root@mail.ionet.net [206.41.128.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09302 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:33:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from buck (ip142.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.142]) by ionet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id NAA09548 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:32:55 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002101bf0396$430d8340$8e3d1d26@buck> From: "Dean Quackenbush" To: Subject: H-COST: Early 16th cent German Corsetry- Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:30:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" This may be a repeated message -seems that only half my messages 'get in'. Does anyone know any good resource for corsetry worn under the puff and slash type gowns. Was it any different from the other countries corsetry? (I have seen some reference to the Italian style of dress of the period that said corsetry may not have been worn.) I will be working off Period Patterns # 40, the only reference to undergarments it makes is that the silhouette slightly flattened the bust and that it should be worn over a shift. Should I use a bum-roll? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 13:35:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29745 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:35:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10854; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:54:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA13213 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:50:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13188 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:50:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem10.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.10] helo=herimats) by mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11T8Vw-0006Ml-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:50:13 +0100 Message-ID: <007d01bf0398$fd004970$0a065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <37E657BA.BCD9043F@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: width of cloth Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:48:32 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "LDMundy" > -Poster: Laurel Wilson > > - -Poster: "LDMundy" > > The width of cloth was limited by the width of the loom , so you could reach > either side for the shuttle. It was only with the introduction a spring > arrangement at the end of a piece of string that made it possible to weave > wider cloth; > > > Sorry, but this isn't entirely accurate >There are those with better memories on this list who can provide date and >more technical descriptions of this important breakthrough >and this is a request for them to do so as it driving me crazy trying to >remember. But this was and I do thank you. But I still tend agree with the initial poster. The narrowness of the panels in the item in question might be a result of it being cut from narrow material,. If it was cut from wider material; then there must be some element unseen or unmentioned ; otherwise it is just work for work,s sake; I am yet to be convinced otherwise. Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 13:46:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29762 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:46:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25692; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:22:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20830 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:18:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20817 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:18:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.200]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:18:14 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Book Review? Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:18:00 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37e86c09.53415229@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <37E59183.DE7E56A9@pacbell.net> In-Reply-To: <37E59183.DE7E56A9@pacbell.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id LAA20818 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 01:44:42 +0000, the following was written in this electric book by Dietmar : > >-Poster: Dietmar > >Greetings, > >I was doing some browsing and came across the following book. Would someone >who has knowledge of it be willing to give a review? > > Dress in the Middle Ages I own this volume and I am still reading through it. I will post a review when I have formed an opinion. Anyone else? Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 13:48:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29785 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:48:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25676; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:22:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA20394 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:16:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20349 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:16:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA18902 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:16:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-145.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.145]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA02931 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:16:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001501bf038d$0b27e820$b61efea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: How white was white? Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:24:43 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Michelle" I had heard something about bleaching with horse urine. I couldn't bring myself to wear something that was bleached this way but, maybe they could have. Michelle >Linen in particular whitens fairly easily just by drying in the sun. > >There's no doubt they had plenty of white linen and white silk. > > >Deborah > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 13:49:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29792 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:49:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26762; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:31:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA23132 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:27:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23120 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:27:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p34.directcon.net [206.170.184.83]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA07357 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:28:15 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:28:15 -0700 Message-Id: <199909201728.KAA07357@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: How white was white? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >Before chemical bleach, people used to stretch huge amounts of fabric out >in the sun and sunbleach cloth white. It got very white but took a long >time. Several weeks at least. I think the places were call Fuller's feilds. > I've heard this story: Linen was spread out on grass to dry. In order to make this easier, large expanses of grass wouold be kept tidy and cut short. A particular type of fine linen is called "Lawn", which I believe is the name of a town in France where it was produced. Therefore, the large flat area of carefully tended grass near the house is where you spread the linens, and that's why it's called the "Lawn" today. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 13:53:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29812 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:53:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25179; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:19:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19846 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:14:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19834 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:14:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA17948 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:14:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-145.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.145]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA01546 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:14:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000e01bf038c$c311ed60$b61efea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: movie costume commentary was: Ever After Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:22:47 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Michelle" The stiffened underbodice is what we are talking about. Oatmeal and unbleached linen are close in color. Michelle >-Poster: Merouda the True of Bornover > >> It is oatmeal. It looked like it could possibly be oatmeal or pale olive? >> Does that mean that all the white peoples faces look green too? :) That >> could be nauseating... > >Regarding the dress she is wearing during the Prince's Fight. The dress she >*was* wearing before she climbed the tree is a pale blue brocade. What she is >wearing during the fight is her underwear, chemise. With a stiffened >underbodice. And it is an unbleached linen color. > >Cynthia > >-- >Cynthia Long >Merouda the True of Bornover >Barony of Madrone >Kingdom of An Tir > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 13:54:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29816 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:54:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26077; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:25:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21557 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:21:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ionet.net (root@mail.ionet.net [206.41.128.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21535 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 11:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from buck (ip149.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.149]) by ionet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA16079 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 12:20:46 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <001101bf038c$30ece700$953d1d26@buck> From: "Dean Quackenbush" To: References: <004901bf0387$a7de5f60$d2df7ad1@martha> Subject: H-COST: Early 16th Cent German Corsetry? Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 10:18:41 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF0351.830461C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF0351.830461C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone know any good resource for corsetry worn under the puff and = slash type gowns. Was it any different from the other countries = corsetry? (I have seen some reference to the Italian style of dress of = the period that said corsetry may not have been worn.) I will be = working off Period Patternst # 40, the only reference to undergarments = it makes is that the silhouette slightly flattened the bust and that it = should be worn over a shift. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF0351.830461C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anyone know any good resource for corsetry = worn under=20 the puff and slash type gowns.  Was it any different from the other = countries corsetry?  (I have seen some reference to the Italian = style of=20 dress of the period that said corsetry may not have been worn.)  I = will be=20 working off Period Patternst # 40, the only reference to undergarments = it makes=20 is that the silhouette slightly flattened the bust and that it should be = worn=20 over a shift. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01BF0351.830461C0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 14:20:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29877 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:20:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18154; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:39:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24016 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:35:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24002 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:35:32 -0600 (MDT) From: DRGurley@aol.com Received: from DRGurley@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6WOE0pyX7N (4013) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:34:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:34:54 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Millennium Clarification (OT) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: DRGurley@aol.com In a message dated 9/20/99 11:50:36 AM Central Daylight Time, KaosWarior@vcnet.com writes: > This is just my Opinion like it or not, I'm sticking to it! You don't know how thrilled I am to have come onto a group of truly intelligent people! I am SO tired of the new millennium hype... We should gather somewhere for a true new millennium celebration! Dani G _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 14:47:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29941 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:47:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA23107; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:05:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA00428 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:01:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00421 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:01:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA23104 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:01:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA24266 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:01:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:01:54 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Early 16th cent German Corsetry- In-Reply-To: <002101bf0396$430d8340$8e3d1d26@buck> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed The German tudor silhouette was definitely more rounded than the flat-fronted English Tudor court portraits. It was still flattened slightly, and definitely compressed; I use a close-fitting back-lacing sleeveless kirtle, cut as if it were to be worn over a corset, over a simple smock. I'm a D cup, and for me it does a good job of creating the correct "smushed & lifted" look--pretty flat, but still rounder than a corseted figure. I haven't seen anything regarding bumrolls, either...but I've found that when I use a small & loosely stuffed one under a skirt pleated with rolled pleats, it looks smack out of a Cranach painting. I know of no reference to corsets worn under German Tudor dress. If anyone does, pleeeze let me know! Drea On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Dean Quackenbush wrote: > > -Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" > > This may be a repeated message -seems that only half my messages 'get in'. > > Does anyone know any good resource for corsetry worn under the puff and > slash type gowns. Was it any different from the other countries corsetry? > (I have seen some reference to the Italian style of dress of the period that > said corsetry may not have been worn.) I will be working off Period > Patterns # 40, the only reference to undergarments it makes is that the > silhouette slightly flattened the bust and that it should be worn over a > shift. Should I use a bum-roll? > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 15:00:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29979 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:00:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26021; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:19:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA03579 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:13:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03564 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:13:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id PAA10333; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:13:09 -0500 (CDT) Received: from lai-ca3d-35.ix.netcom.com(209.110.243.35) by dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma009994; Mon Sep 20 15:12:08 1999 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990920131233.007c28a0@popd.ix.netcom.com> X-Sender: alikhat@popd.ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:12:37 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Alikhat Subject: Re: H-COST: Millenium Clarification Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Alikhat Actually, for the ultimate explanation of the whole silly 2000 vs. 2001 business, I highly recommend going to http://www.geocities.com:80/Athens/Oracle/9941/endtime.html It's part of an entire website devoted to the phenom of Millennial Madness called, "It's The End Of The World As We Know It...Again" at http://www.geocities.com:80/Athens/Oracle/9941/index.html Very amusing and gets the point across. Alikhat BTW, on yet another anal point, "Millennium" is spelled with 2 n's. At 06:19 AM 9/20/99 -0500, Anya wrote: > >-Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Julie Adams >To: h-costume@indra.com >Date: Friday, September 17, 1999 22:44 >Subject: Re: BP (was H-COST: Canadian Iceman update - OT) > > >> >>-Poster: Julie Adams >> > >> >>Um, no its not. Jan1, 2000 is the beginning of the new millenium, but this >>is way too off topic for this list... Anyone curious needs to review some >>graphs and mathmatics... >> >>Julie Adams > > >the first day of the new millenium is Jan 1, 2001. We're in the 20th >Century, but the year is 1999, right? That's because when the current >calender was formulated, they started at the 1st century AD, but didn't >start at year 101. They started at year 1. Therefore, the centuries are one >ahead of the years, and end on the 00's (has to to have a full 100 years in >it). It went 1-100. then 101-200 ad nauseam. But the centuries went 1st cent >(1-100), 2nd (101-200) and so on. It didn't start on year zero as is the >common theory, it's just that to get the centuries lined up, they would have >had to add a 100 to the year to match. People tend to start on 1, not zero. >(Think about how you count things. If you have 15 apples you don't start >with zero apples, one apple.... you start on 1. Same with years.) > >Sorry if this sounds oversimplified (its not really, just worder simply). >This is how I had to explain it to my sister's Honors history class last >year. > >Anya > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 15:43:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA30069 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:42:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04514; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:02:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA13295 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:51:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout4.whowhere.com (mc-qout4.whowhere.com [209.185.123.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA13271 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:51:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by hotbot.com; Mon Sep 20 13:51:13 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:51:13 -0700 From: " Firefly" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: margo@directcon.net X-Sent-Mail: off X-Expiredinmiddle: true X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: H-COST: Re: Origins of the Zoot X-Sender-Ip: 207.199.142.15 Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: " Firefly" Sorry to respond late, but had to clear out email from the weekend (I have a volume problem). Frankie Manning is from Harlem, so he's recalling from that perspective--though by the time the zoot suits were popular he'd have been dancing the Lindy for a couple of years (this dance, considered the first swing dance, was invented in the very late 1920s, but it really didn't emerge from Harlem until the mid '30s). By that time, Frankie Manning was dancing in a professional group, Whitey's Lindy Hoppers, and they were performing in a number of movies shot at that time (like the Marx Bros Night at the Races, etc.). Consequently, they traveled frequently out to the LA area--as did the major band leaders, like Calloway. So, the NY swing culture did mix with the LA hispanic culture and it is clear the two cultures had an influence on each other. I don't know where the zoot started (the old chicken-egg problem). You can also see this kind of cross-influence in the spanish swing music that came from LA at this time as well (a funny example is Louis Guererra's "Marijuana Boogie"). What I do know was that at the time, a zoot was a kind of defiant gesture. Zoot suits used enormous quantities of fabric at a time of rationing. The people who wore them were frequently either draft evaders or non-citizen immigrants (who weren't drafted). In LA, there were street riots between the "pachucos"--members of a Chicano street gang and Navy sailors who didn't approve of the attitude zoot suiters had. A classic culture clash. Think West Side Story done 40s style (and in LA ;-}). Once the war got underway, the popularity of the zoot suit faded, as times had overtaken the drama of their shock value: people simply had more on their minds than big suits. Incidently, the trend towards big clothes also emerged in the UK in that same period as preppie public school boys started wearing exceedingly baggy slacks. These were unlike zoot suit baggies, since they weren't tappered at the ankles (apparently cuffs on a single leg of pants could be as wide as a woman's skirt). The motivation was also rebellion, but this time from the upper classes. Again, I don't know if you can draw any conclusion about cause/effect--or even influence, in this case--but it certainly was an interesting bit of cultural synchronicity. Say, you folks in academia--this could be a really good research topic--just let us know what you dig up! Mary --- Visit my homepage: http://pages.hotbot.com/travel/fire.fly On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:26:39 Margo Anderson wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > > >>One final historic note...I've taken a couple of Frankie Manning workshops >(Frankie was one of the first swing dancers and is credited for inventing >aerial moves so closely associated with the dance) and got the opportunity >to ask him last year whether zoots were really popular back in the golden >days of swing dancing at the Savoy. He said that there was a short time at >the beginning of WWII when they were popular in Harlem, but mostly it was >more popular with Latinos. > >This may be a regional difference. My father, who lived in New York city, >thinks of zoot suits as a Black style, and my mother, who lived in Burbank >(near Los Angeles) remembers it as a Mexican style. > >Margo > >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 16:28:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30126 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:28:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11997; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:46:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25636 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:42:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25625 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:42:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA03946 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:39:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <008101bf03b1$661f8660$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Book Review? Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:45:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >>I was doing some browsing and came across the following book. Would >>someone who has knowledge of it be willing to give a review? >> >> Dress in the Middle Ages I've referred to this in the past as a "culture book" rather than a costume book. If you're looking for patterns or lots of detail on what was worn in particular periods, you won't find it here. If, on the other hand, you're interested in the place of dress in medieval society, the book is far more useful. As I recall, one problem I found with the book is lack of footnoting--makes it sort of hard to track down tantalizing tidbits. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 16:30:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30132 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:30:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12251; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:48:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26110 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:44:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26105 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:44:28 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6KSEa11893 (4004) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:43:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e449e30.25180488@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:43:36 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: How white was white? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com According to Kax Wilson, linen was first soaked in sour milk and cow's dung, then in waste lye, before being laid out in the fields. Silk, which is naturally a cream color, was bleached white as early as the Middle Ages, but it was very expensive. The silk was spread over a cage in which lamp sulfur was burned. Wool could also be whitened this way, with fuller's earth or gypsum to even out the color. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 16:31:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30140 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:31:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12423; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:49:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26302 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:45:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail3.anet.net (mail3.anet.net [216.2.98.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26265 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:45:18 -0600 (MDT) From: rima@anet.net Received: from [216.2.96.216] by mail3.anet.net with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0); Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:50:49 -0800 X-Sender: rima@mail.anet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909192248.QAA03508@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:28:48 -0700 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Speaking of Houpelandes.... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: rima@anet.net Chas says: >A Bastard houppelande is one that is or about ankle length, or so I have been >taught and have read. The great houppelandes were ones that not only drug >the ground, but actually made a respectable puddle of fabric at the feet. >You can witness these in many Italian portraits. Riding houppelandes had to >be shorter than even a bastard houppelande, and therefor were cut at the >knees or perhaps a tad higher. If you study portaits from the 12th-15th >centuries you can see the evolution of this garment. I've made a couple from the Past Patterns version, and I was wondering if anybody has come up with a clever way of belting these so that you get those wonderful even folds that you see in all the art of the time??? Or do I just need to get my handmaiden to arrange my gown for me ever 20 minutes? Rima Great on those cool winter nights....LOVE feeling my sleeves drag the floor..... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 16:35:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30144 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:35:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29845; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:38:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08702 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:33:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08687 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:33:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FID00JN5L25BD@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:32:29 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:41:04 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: Questions?/Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns In-reply-to: <199909202014.OAA03766@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990920154104.007a13a0@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marc Carlson >I just checked Marc's site out and I think that it's terrific. My only >comment is "More, more!" Thank you, and I will be happy to put more there just as soon as I have more. One of the things I keep trying to tell people is that I don't have to be the person that writes more information for it. I just control the format :) If people want to contribute to it the major restriction(s) are that whatever is described must be an actual garment (although I may be talked into lightening up about some things like brass rubbings, and such). Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 16:38:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30148 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:38:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00362; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:40:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09446 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:36:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-gw.pacbell.net (mail-gw.pacbell.net [206.13.28.25]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09424 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:36:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-68-119.irvn11.pacbell.net [206.170.68.119]) by mail-gw.pacbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01903 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:36:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E63954.212DD779@pacbell.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:40:41 +0000 From: Dietmar Organization: Completely Disorganized X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: OT: Bastard Sword [was Re: Men's Costuming] References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Chas wrote: > I don't know why they refered to the slightly shorter houppelande as a > "bastard" houppelande, but then again why was a sword that was slightly > shorter than a great sword called a "bastard" sword? Im not up on etymology > of the English language, but it would be fascinating to know why "bastard" > was applied. Normal short swords were used with one hand. 'Great swords' were larger and heavier, and thus designed to be used with two hands (usually to break the heads of of pikes and spears). A 'bastard' sword (often called a 'hand and a half') was somewhere between the two; light enough to be swung with one hand, but with a hilt long enough to accommodate two hands if needed. P.S.: Swords were not the heavy behemoths people envision and Hollywood perpetuates. On the average they weighed one lb./ft., so a short sword would weigh about 3 lbs. They were light so that you could swing them without becoming tired. People didn't duel on foot with great swords. Nor did they fence with them. Stabbing was generally not effective with these slashing weapons. Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 16:38:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30152 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:38:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29769; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:37:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA08528 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:33:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08509 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:33:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07556 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:32:31 -0400 Message-ID: <37E699E0.2120D008@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:32:46 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How white was white?/Lawn/2001 References: <199909201728.KAA07357@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue The OED backs up Margo's info on 'lawn', although it notes that the derivation was identified relatively recently (1900) and is not entirely certain. The modern term in French for a nice grass lawn is 'pelouse' which is basically 'fur.' Leastaways, that's what my french teacher taught me. And lastly, anyone interested in the 2000/2001 thing can do a websearch, as I did recently. Sites from the Greenwich Observatory in England, to the military, will fill you in on all the details. Most advocate an odometer party this year, and a Millenium one next. And I wish I'd had a party in '96 for the Jesus's birthday date, but I wasn't thinking about it then. Three millenium parties; what more could you want? cv _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 16:41:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30158 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:41:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13754; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:59:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA28548 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:55:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.isg.siue.edu (mail.isg.siue.edu [146.163.5.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28533 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:55:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from frick.siue.edu (client652.pb.siue.edu [146.163.163.82]) by mail.isg.siue.edu (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA24390 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:53:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990920165834.007b1210@siue.edu> X-Sender: cfrick@siue.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:58:34 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carole Frick Subject: H-COST: white silk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carole Frick In Renaissance Florence, silk was made white by the use of sulphurous fumes, which dictated where this work could be done, preferably down-wind from people's habitations. Carole Collier Frick Department of History Southern Illinois University _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 16:45:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30166 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:45:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA03398; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:58:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA13738 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:53:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout4.whowhere.com (mc-qout4.whowhere.com [209.185.123.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA13732 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 14:53:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by hotbot.com; Mon Sep 20 13:53:18 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 13:53:18 -0700 From: " Firefly" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: margo@directcon.net X-Sent-Mail: off X-Expiredinmiddle: true X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: H-COST: Re: Origins of the Zoot X-Sender-Ip: 207.199.142.177 Organization: HotBot Mail (http://mail.hotbot.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: " Firefly" Sorry to respond late, but had to clear out email from the weekend (I have a volume problem). Frankie Manning is from Harlem, so he's recalling from that perspective--though by the time the zoot suits were popular he'd have been dancing the Lindy for a couple of years (this dance, considered the first swing dance, was invented in the very late 1920s, but it really didn't emerge from Harlem until the mid '30s). By that time, Frankie Manning was dancing in a professional group, Whitey's Lindy Hoppers, and they were performing in a number of movies shot at that time (like the Marx Bros Night at the Races, etc.). Consequently, they traveled frequently out to the LA area--as did the major band leaders, like Calloway. So, the NY swing culture did mix with the LA hispanic culture and it is clear the two cultures had an influence on each other. I don't know where the zoot started (the old chicken-egg problem). You can also see this kind of cross-influence in the spanish swing music that came from LA at this time as well (a funny example is Louis Guererra's "Marijuana Boogie"). What I do know was that at the time, a zoot was a kind of defiant gesture. Zoot suits used enormous quantities of fabric at a time of rationing. The people who wore them were frequently either draft evaders or non-citizen immigrants (who weren't drafted). In LA, there were street riots between the "pachucos"--members of a Chicano street gang and Navy sailors who didn't approve of the attitude zoot suiters had. A classic culture clash. Think West Side Story done 40s style (and in LA ;-}). Once the war got underway, the popularity of the zoot suit faded, as times had overtaken the drama of their shock value: people simply had more on their minds than big suits. Incidently, the trend towards big clothes also emerged in the UK in that same period as preppie public school boys started wearing exceedingly baggy slacks. These were unlike zoot suit baggies, since they weren't tappered at the ankles (apparently cuffs on a single leg of pants could be as wide as a woman's skirt). The motivation was also rebellion, but this time from the upper classes. Again, I don't know if you can draw any conclusion about cause/effect--or even influence, in this case--but it certainly was an interesting bit of cultural synchronicity. Say, you folks in academia--this could be a really good research topic--just let us know what you dig up! Mary --- Visit my homepage: http://pages.hotbot.com/travel/fire.fly On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 08:26:39 Margo Anderson wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > > >>One final historic note...I've taken a couple of Frankie Manning workshops >(Frankie was one of the first swing dancers and is credited for inventing >aerial moves so closely associated with the dance) and got the opportunity >to ask him last year whether zoots were really popular back in the golden >days of swing dancing at the Savoy. He said that there was a short time at >the beginning of WWII when they were popular in Harlem, but mostly it was >more popular with Latinos. > >This may be a regional difference. My father, who lived in New York city, >thinks of zoot suits as a Black style, and my mother, who lived in Burbank >(near Los Angeles) remembers it as a Mexican style. > >Margo > >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 16:48:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30170 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:48:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15203; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:06:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00776 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:02:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00761 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:02:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.72.104]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990920220149.BEF3061.mta1-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:01:49 +0100 Message-ID: <37E71030.2A1E@virgin.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:57:20 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How white was white? References: <001501bf038d$0b27e820$b61efea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dawn Michelle wrote: > > -Poster: "Michelle" > > I had heard something about bleaching with horse urine. I couldn't bring > myself to wear something that was bleached this way but, maybe they could > have. > Michelle > > >Linen in particular whitens fairly easily just by drying in the sun. > > > >There's no doubt they had plenty of white linen and white silk. > > > > > >Deborah > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Bleaching and washing of all types of items from hair to cloth as well as wounds etc was often done with urine, which when it has had all the proteins etc filtered out is one of the the purest liquids known and is even safe to drink. It is the most natural form of ammonia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 16:49:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30174 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:49:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15213; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:06:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00763 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:02:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00752 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:02:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.net (ip50.an7-new-york4.ny.pub-ip.psi.net [38.26.18.50]) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26047 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:02:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E6AF7D.23E0AEC7@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:04:46 -0400 From: Laurel Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03C-NSCP (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: historic costume Subject: H-COST: width of cloth Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Laurel Wilson - -Poster: "LDMundy" > But I still tend agree with the initial poster. The narrowness of the panels in the item in question might be a result of it being cut from narrow material,. If it was cut from wider material; then there must be some element unseen or unmentioned ; otherwise it is just work for work,s sake; I am yet to be convinced otherwise. Dave I don't remember the original post, I'm sorry to say, but you made me realize that I neglected to point out in my post that there continued to be a great deal of wool woven in narrower loom widths. There were so-called one-man cloths in England, and many other kinds of cloths in England, Flanders, and I imagine the rest of Europe, that fell outside of the legally specified dimensions for broadcloth. (fell 'inside', I guess I should say, since they were narrower than broadcloth) With a nod in Robin's direction, I even seem to remember that worsteds were usually narrow widths, but I need to look that one up. Lauri _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 17:04:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30193 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:04:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18222; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:22:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05133 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:17:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05115 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:17:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07747 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:17:05 -0400 Message-ID: <37E6B262.5A1B3185@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:17:24 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Speaking of Houpelandes.... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > I've made a couple from the Past Patterns version, and I was wondering if > anybody has come up with a clever way of belting these so that you get > those wonderful even folds that you see in all the art of the time??? If my belt is snug, I don't need to repleat mine over an afternoon. You could also baste it to an inner tape, in pleats. cv _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 17:04:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30197 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:04:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18361; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:22:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05359 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:18:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05339; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:18:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id HAA14472; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:48:30 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA09672; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:56:04 +0930 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:55:56 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Speaking of Houpelandes.... In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 rima@anet.net wrote: > > I've made a couple from the Past Patterns version, and I was wondering if > anybody has come up with a clever way of belting these so that you get > those wonderful even folds that you see in all the art of the time??? > > Or do I just need to get my handmaiden to arrange my gown for me ever 20 > minutes? I'd say the hand maiden *grin* You could try tacking pleats into it, so they stay where you want them too. Usually I just put on the belt and do a bit of tugging to get it more or less even (making sure the side seams are actually on the sides is usually the main thing). If your fabric is nice and heavy but soft it will fall into more or less regular folds by itself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 17:25:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA30206 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:25:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA21191; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:43:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA10145 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:39:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (mta4.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10131 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:39:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-69-37.irvn11.pacbell.net) by mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FID006T7QGJ4H@mta4.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:29:11 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:27:57 +0000 From: Dietmar Subject: H-COST: End the Millennium Clarification :-) To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <37E65274.1534CCE8@pacbell.net> Organization: Completely Disorganized MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Look folks, it doesn't really matter whether the millennium ends this year or next. Millions of people will celebrate either way. Personally, I'd rather have it this year so that all of the stupid hype will be over 12 months sooner. So, if you believe it's next year, smile at your superior intelligence, but please keep it to yourself!! (I can't survive an twelve extra months of hype!!) :-) Thanks, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 18:03:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30323 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:03:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26401; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:21:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17817 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:13:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17802 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:13:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA14359 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:11:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005201bf03be$27fb1860$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: End the Millennium Clarification :-) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:16:23 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings-- > Personally, I'd rather >have it this year so that all of the stupid hype will be over 12 months >sooner. So, if you believe it's next year, smile at your superior >intelligence, but please keep it to yourself!! (I can't survive an twelve >extra months of hype!!) :-) Now THAT I can agree with.... Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 18:14:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30338 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:14:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27846; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:32:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA20445 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:28:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20136 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:26:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lips.excite.com ([199.172.152.142]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19990920225311.DIQH2683.gigi@lips.excite.com> for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:53:11 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: A Lurker's Questions Message-Id: <937867989.20033.823@excite.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:53:09 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "StitchWitch" Hello! I missed de-lurking day, but have a couple of questions now. (And I'll send in my Procrastinator's Anonymous membership soon, I promise!) Question 1: Is there any place I might search for how to make and embellish a shroud? Specifically, the kind used in the British Isles called a winding sheet. (Hope I've got my terms straight!) IF memory serves, they used to make fine ones with embroidery and such, but I need to find some documentation. Question 2: Where might one find a modern reproduction of an ancient clay oil lamp? I've seen pictures, but do not have a clue who made them. They look a little like what one might expect Aladdin's lamp to look like, they use oil or fat for fuel, and have a wick. I think they were made in Greece, originally. And no, I'm not explaining what I need these for yet. Let me find out if the idea works, first! ;) Kate ---- StitchWitch Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim. - Santayana, Life of Reason, 1905 ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 18:20:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30350 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:20:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28657; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:38:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA21761 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:34:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21751 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:34:48 -0600 (MDT) From: ArcadiaCB@aol.com Received: from ArcadiaCB@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6BNKa09808 (4509) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:34:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <16d52c90.25181e70@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:34:08 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: How white was white To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ArcadiaCB@aol.com By the mid 19th c a "blue bag" was used to give fabric that blue-white cast. I have this in a mid 19th c book (1858 I think, too lazy to go pull it). The author gives step by step instructions on how to do laundry (thank you, thank you) so I used this method when portraying a Civil War camp laundress. You just put a cake of indigo in a *double layered* bag and whish it in the rinse water. Careful not to let it touch the garment or it will leave a blue stain. As it dries in the sun it will take on blue-white cast and get the yellow look out. Liquid bluing is still available (thing "blue-haired ladies" who use bluing to take the dingy yellow cast out of white hair. Don't know when this method was discovered. Charlene B. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 18:33:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA30364 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:33:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00515; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:51:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA24293 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:47:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24288 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:47:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailgate2.apple.com ([17.129.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28344 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scv1.apple.com (scv1.apple.com) by mailgate2.apple.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:47:23 -0700 Received: from [17.202.21.54] (decaga.apple.com [17.202.21.54]) by scv1.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA02669 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 16:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909202347.QAA02669@scv1.apple.com> Subject: H-COST: Rolled pleats? Date: Mon, 20 Sep 99 16:53:12 -0700 x-sender: gdecamp@shell12.ba.best.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Gail DeCamp To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gail DeCamp Drea Leed posted: >I haven't seen anything regarding bumrolls, either...but I've found that >when I use a small & loosely stuffed one under a skirt pleated with rolled >pleats, it looks smack out of a Cranach painting. Drea, what are rolled pleats? thanks Gail DeCamp Dogs come when you call them. Cats have answering machines. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 19:01:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30451 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:01:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04466; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:19:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA29110 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:15:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29099 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:15:24 -0600 (MDT) From: Cheryldee@aol.com Received: from Cheryldee@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6QTVa03915 (4561) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:14:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:14:33 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: How white was white? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com In a message dated 9/20/99 1:10:36 PM Mountain Daylight Time, mandrake@mypad.com writes: << I had heard something about bleaching with horse urine. I couldn't bring myself to wear something that was bleached this way but, maybe they could have. >> Horse urine makes a spetacular mordant so many of the dyes were set this way. You couldn't achieve a true black without it. It's called "urea" today but its the same thing. I think human urine was used, too. Hope this didn't spoil your dinner. Cheryl Odom _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 19:38:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30512 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:38:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08833; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:57:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04775 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:52:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04755 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:52:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k477.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.77]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id RAA11289 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:52:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E6D5F8.248D@netwiz.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 17:48:56 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How white was white? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Cheryldee@aol.com wrote: > > -Poster: Cheryldee@aol.com > > In a message dated 9/20/99 1:10:36 PM Mountain Daylight Time, > mandrake@mypad.com writes: > Horse urine makes a spetacular mordant so many of the dyes were set this way. > You couldn't achieve a true black without it. It's called "urea" today but > its the same thing. I think human urine was used, too. Hope this didn't > spoil your dinner. Cheryl Odom I think this has been mentioned before, but cow urine is still used in India for mordanting with natural dyes. It's no more repulsive (or smellier) than using ammonia in the wash. Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 20:07:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA30541 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:07:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11941; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:24:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA09082 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:20:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ionet.net (root@mail.ionet.net [206.41.128.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09071 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:20:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from buck (ip251.phoenix8.az.pub-ip.psi.net [38.29.61.251]) by ionet.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA12120 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:20:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <001601bf03cf$30ccb960$fb3d1d26@buck> From: "Dean Quackenbush" To: References: <199909202347.QAA02669@scv1.apple.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Rolled pleats? Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:17:14 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" > Drea, what are rolled pleats? Organ-pipe pleats are another name for what I believe she is referring to. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gail DeCamp To: Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 4:53 PM Subject: H-COST: Rolled pleats? > > -Poster: Gail DeCamp > > > Drea Leed posted: > > >I haven't seen anything regarding bumrolls, either...but I've found that > >when I use a small & loosely stuffed one under a skirt pleated with rolled > >pleats, it looks smack out of a Cranach painting. > > Drea, what are rolled pleats? > > thanks > > Gail DeCamp > > > Dogs come when you call them. Cats have answering machines. > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 20:20:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA30571 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:20:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13587; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:38:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA11275 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:34:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11266 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:34:18 -0600 (MDT) From: JPMcTeer@aol.com Received: from JPMcTeer@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6TUBa04663 (3942) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <41c9c0f1.25183a73@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:33:39 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: Victorian "Fancy Dress" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: JPMcTeer@aol.com to Margo King who unlurked to give me some information: Thank you for your suggestion to check the Harpers Bazaar book. I do own the book, but had not gotten around to looking in it yet. It does indeed have fashions based on historical styles that are meant to be regular ball dress, not even "Fancy Dress." They will make excellent illustrations of how to take a dress that was "fashionable" and make it a masquerade outfit. Thanks again. Joan McTeer Minneapolis _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 20:32:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA30625 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:32:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14593; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:50:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA13431 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:46:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13418 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:46:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k477.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.77]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id SAA20341; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E6E292.6A68@netwiz.net> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:42:42 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: menscostumes@onelist.com CC: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Men's costumes: Japanese References: <16d3f0cb.251818ef@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Dear lists (cross-posting) -- I am having to learn to make Japanese male costume for my son. I kind of enjoy this as I'm interested in Japanese art/culture, etc. and also sell kimonos. I can lend him things "from stock", but have to make some new things too. I also occasionally get a request for a kimono for some guy over 6 feet tall, 250 lb. (should've kept track of these) Does anyone out there think there might be a custom market for such garb? Assuming I learn how to do it authentically (except I'm not sewing them by hand) would other guys be interested?? This would not be *cheap*! Are people willing to pay realistic prices for costumes they can only wear once in awhile?? Susan Fatemi -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 20:35:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA30646 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:35:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15110; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:54:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA14013 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:50:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.inreach.com (mail2.inreach.com [209.142.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14008 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:50:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (209-142-41-43.stk.inreach.net [209.142.41.43]) by smtp.inreach.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09684 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:34:50 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E6E37A.EC875C5A@inreach.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:46:36 -0700 From: Diana H Organization: Well, I wouldn't call it organized...... X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Early 16th cent German Corsetry- X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Diana H aleed wrote: > -Poster: aleed > > The German tudor silhouette was definitely more rounded than the > flat-fronted English Tudor court portraits. Okay, I know that there are some people on this list who do German Renn gowns. I am by no means an expert but I have made a number of them and I am going to try to give as much knowledge on this subject that I can. First, however, I have a complaint...... Calling this look the "German Tudor" silhouette is like fingers on a chalkboard to me. In Germany, they didn't have much at all to do with this Henry VIII fellow. It would be like calling early 1800's styles in the United States the "American Napoleonic" style. It's just not right. One common way to refer to this German style is to call it the *Cranach* style after perhaps the most prolific German painter of that period. Thanks for letting me clarify that. My neck will stop tweaking now :~> > It was still flattened > slightly, and definitely compressed; I use a close-fitting > back-lacing sleeveless kirtle, cut as if it were to be worn over a > corset, > over a simple smock. I'm a D cup, and for me it does a good job of > creating the correct "smushed & lifted" look--pretty flat, but still > rounder than a corseted figure. I know that people use corsets for this style but the correct silhouette can be achieved by other methods. The corsets of other countries during the same time period won't give the right look. There is still a debate on whether or not some form of corsetry was in fact used. I personally believe that they were not used or that if they were, it was in a limited capacity (which I will explain below.) Firstly, it is important to use a stiff fabric in the bodice either as a lining or as a supplemental stiffening agent. This will keep the torso kind-of "strapped in" and prevent wrinkles & shifting. If done properly, even a *healthy* woman can achive a smooth look. Secondly, you can put stiffening in the "placket" or front decorative piece which is comprised of the decorative bust covering and the white part which is laced over. If you place boning from waist to under the bust, you can keep the stomach area flat but allow the breasts to remain curvy. They would then be held in place by the top part of the placket. The placket should be permanently attached on one side and held in with hooks & eyes on the other side when worn. Then the lacing over the stomach keeps things neat. Another possibility is that the bodice had an internal corset only in the front which has the boning arrangement I mentioned before and was permanently attached to the bodice-lacing in the center. You lace up the bodice using the corset part to reduce strain on your placket. > I haven't seen anything regarding bumrolls, either...but I've found > that > when I use a small & loosely stuffed one under a skirt pleated with > rolled > pleats, it looks smack out of a Cranach painting. No bumrolls. Use cartridge pleating. Very German, very easy and gives all the poofing you need. The pleats tend to stand out when attached properly and a stiffening agent used in them. There is some debate on whether or not the skirts used gored panels or rectangular panels. Personally, I like rectangular ones cuz they are easier to lay trim on and are easier to cartridge pleat. Hope this helps. And I would be happy to help anyone get more info on this because I think the style is FABULOUS (I have 4 Cranach dresses myself). Diana :~> -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "There are too many mediocre things in life to deal with.....Love shouldn't be one of them." --Ione Skye in "Dream for an Insomniac" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 20:37:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA30657 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:37:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15202; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:55:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA14159 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:51:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.inreach.com (mail2.inreach.com [209.142.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14149 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:51:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (209-142-41-43.stk.inreach.net [209.142.41.43]) by smtp.inreach.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10491 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:36:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E6E3D1.6575F3C2@inreach.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:48:01 -0700 From: Diana H Organization: Well, I wouldn't call it organized...... X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Modification of pseudo-Italian-Ren X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <19990920064014.98850.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Diana H Lecelina O'Brian Of Mount Shannon wrote: > -Poster: "Lecelina O'Brian Of Mount Shannon" > > Diana, > > Is that offer open to anyone? I like the style I have the simplicity > patterns trying to do the best I can to make it some what close to > period, > any help is appreciated. > > Lady Lecelina > > ****** I would be happy to forward some > online portrait URL's to show you the styles.***** Absolutely!! Tell me which pattern you have & I will look it up so I can give you the proper portaits for the style. Diana :~> -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "There are too many mediocre things in life to deal with.....Love shouldn't be one of them." --Ione Skye in "Dream for an Insomniac" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 20:56:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA30747 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:56:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18087; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:14:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA16919 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:09:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d10.mx (imo-d10.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.42]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16909 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:09:36 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6OTK0iZYmj (4414) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:09:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e452770.251842c0@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:09:04 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: How white was white? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Technically speaking, urine was not used as a mordant. Mordants are metallic oxides, such as oxides of aluminum, tin, or chrome. The dye combines with the metallic oxide to form an insoluble colored compound--good for a dye because it won't wash out. Urine was used in dyeing and finishing, though. It was, for example, used as the reducing agent that made indigo water soluble. (It then oxidizes again in the air, forming the blue, insoluble, color.) But this is not the same as a mordant--indigo is a VAT dye. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 21:05:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30779 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:05:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19212; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:23:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA18424 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:18:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18413 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:18:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA21780 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:18:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-73.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.73]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA16608 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:18:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000701bf03d8$c72e9000$6aebfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Early 16th cent German Corsetry- Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:26:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Michelle" > >-Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" > >Does anyone know any good resource for corsetry worn under the puff and >slash type gowns. You can use the corset on page 113 of Janet Arnold's: Patterns of Fashion. > Was it any different from the other countries corsetry? Yes, English wore completely flattening corsets. >Should I use a bum-roll? I don't think so, but it depends on the garment specifically. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 21:09:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30789 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:09:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19724; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:27:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA19090 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:23:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19082 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:23:32 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) id TAA18486 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:23:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909210223.TAA18486@eclipse.pacifier.com> Received: from ip82.van21.pacifier.com(216.65.138.82), claiming to be "grendal2" via SMTP by smtp.pacifier.com, id smtpdDAA.Iaa3J; Mon Sep 20 19:23:18 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:26:50 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: Early 16th cent German Corsetry- Priority: normal In-reply-to: <37E6E37A.EC875C5A@inreach.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com > Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 18:46:36 -0700 > From: Diana H > Organization: Well, I wouldn't call it organized...... > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Early 16th cent German Corsetry- > Reply-to: h-costume@indra.com > > -Poster: Diana H > > aleed wrote: > > > -Poster: aleed > > > > The German tudor silhouette was definitely more rounded than the > > flat-fronted English Tudor court portraits. > > Okay, I know that there are some people on this list who do German Renn > gowns. I am by no means an expert but I have made a number of them and > I am going to try to give as much knowledge on this subject that I can. > First, however, I have a complaint...... > > Calling this look the "German Tudor" silhouette is like fingers on a > chalkboard to me. In Germany, they didn't have much at all to do with > this Henry VIII fellow. They might not have anything to do with each other except that the clothing in Germany and England for men was very similar during this part of the 16th C. Women, on the other hand, were quite different. (Look at the differences between Anne of Cleves and the other queens of HVIII.) Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 21:18:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30812 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:18:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20577; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:36:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA20289 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:32:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA20281 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:32:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.130] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11TFj1-0001AE-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:32:12 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 19:29:47 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: WAS: Re: H-COST: How white was white? NOW: Re: Urea In-Reply-To: <37E6D5F8.248D@netwiz.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" If it's washed out after it's been bleached, why is it any more repulsive than mushrooms which have been raised in 'growing medium' and then washed? Carol, raised on a farm, and thus, I guess, with a different perspective... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 21:41:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30869 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:41:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22659; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:59:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23282 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:55:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23270 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:55:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.200] ([209.207.57.203]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA23985 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:54:57 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37E6E37A.EC875C5A@inreach.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:54:07 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: H-COST: Early 16th cent German reference Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Melanie Schuessler I've been reading the discussion on 16th century German underpinnings with interest--thanks for all the practical information! I have a reference to pass along for bookaholics, I mean those who like to research. It is not a book that I own, but it does have a great number of 16th century German portraits and woodcuts/etchings, etc. The text is in German, and I'm sure it is very informative (wish my German were better!). _Textiler Hausrat Kleidung und Haustextilen in Nurnberg von 1500-1650_ by Jutta Zander-Seidel published in 1990 ISBN 3-422-06067-7 US Amazon does not have it, but Amazon.de, the German version, does. The front page of the site is at: http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/subst/home/home.html/ The book itself is at: http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3422060677/qid%3D937881851/028-7933346-178 0250 It apparently ships within 2 or 3 business days, and it costs about $105 (US dollars) or 198 Deutschmarks. (Insert standard not affiliated with them, just shop there disclaimer) Happy shopping! Melanie Schuessler write to melanie@faucet.net or visit at http://www.faucet.net/costume _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 21:50:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30904 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:50:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23597; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:09:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24753 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:05:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24731 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:04:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA12575 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:04:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-82.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.82]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA17242 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:04:58 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003301bf03df$36ec2820$6aebfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: A Lurker's Questions Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:13:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Michelle" >Question 2: Where might one find a modern reproduction of an ancient clay >oil lamp? I've seen pictures, but do not have a clue who made them. They >look a little like what one might expect Aladdin's lamp to look like, they >use oil or fat for fuel, and have a wick. I think they were made in Greece, >originally. > >Kate I would look into finding more info on Soapstone. You may come across someone who makes them. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 21:55:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30924 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:55:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA23869; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:13:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA25291 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:08:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25285 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:08:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA14310 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:08:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-82.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.82]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA19824 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <005601bf03df$c41712a0$6aebfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: Re: H-COST: How white was white? NOW: Re: Urea Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 20:16:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Michelle" >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > If it's washed out after it's been bleached, why is it any more >repulsive than mushrooms which have been raised in 'growing medium' and >then washed? Carol, raised on a farm, and thus, I guess, with a different >perspective... I don't eat mushrooms either! :) Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 22:02:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30971 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:02:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24908; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:20:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26544 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:16:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26522 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:16:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (d-ma-superpop-180.ici.net [207.180.40.180]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA24947 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:15:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909210315.XAA24947@bajor.ici.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Simplicity 14thC cotehardie and sideless, #8725 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:15:58 -0400 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id VAA26527 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Irene leNoir Margery wrote: >There has been a lot of *really*uncharitable* slamming of this pattern >in the past few days. As I suspect that I am one of the people that Margery is referring to, I feel I should respond. Rereading my post, I will admit I was a bit harsh in tone. I apologize for this. It was not my intention to "slam" the pattern or the designer. For what it was meant to be, it is a fine pattern. The problem, though, lies in what it was meant to be - a pattern meant for the average person without any knowledge of historic costume who wants an easy-to-make dress that has the right "look" and that will only be worn once or twice. What was bothering/frustrating me (and which lead me to my harsh tone) was that some of the less experienced sewers on this this were discussing how they could use this pattern as a starting point, and what alterations they should do to get something more accurate. What I was attempting to communicate was that if what they want is a gown with an accurate cut that they can wear repeatedly for the purposes of historical recreation/reenactment, they would be much better served to start with a different pattern. Starting with this pattern would require a lot of alteration before a pattern results that is accurate and without structural/functional weaknesses. There are plenty of other patterns out there (see paragraph below) that will yield much better results without nearly so much work. Regarding my comment about the cheerleader dress. I realize now that some may have taken this to be a snide remark. That was not my intent. The strange fact is that some of the cheerleading dress patterns out there happen to be very basic 6 to 8 panel princess line dresses, which can be very useful. I have a (C)1988 Butterick 6732 (I'm sure the number has changed if it is even still available) that I used to draft my first cotehardie pattern. With just a few very simple alterations, it produced a very nice gown. One last comment >In that earlier discussion it was surmised that the >photo-stylist likely pinned in the dresses to fit the models as >closely as the original design sketch showed the fit to be. If I am reading this correctly, this was in response to my comment about the bust dart. Even if it was a case of the photo-stylist altering the final product, I still am strongly of the opinion that this is no excuse. The fact remains that they are still portraying a garment in the catalog and on the envelope that is not the garment that you will get if you follow the pattern. Again, my apologies to the designer of this pattern if I offended her. I am not surprised at all to learn that she was hindered by the dictates of Simplicity, as I had suspected this was the case. I am sure that if they had let her do what she wanted the resulting pattern would have been wonderful. Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 22:09:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31010 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:09:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25674; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:27:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA27505 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:23:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27498 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:23:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6LIEa04067 (3985) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:22:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:22:58 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Book Review? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 9/20/99 7:01:11 PM !!!First Boot!!!, rio@austin.rr.com writes: << Greetings, > >I was doing some browsing and came across the following book. Would someone >who has knowledge of it be willing to give a review? > > Dress in the Middle Ages I own this volume and I am still reading through it. I will post a review when I have formed an opinion. Anyone else? >> I too recently purchased this book at the Met., and am working through it. I too have not yet read enough to form a solid opinion, but so-far I like it. Charles _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 22:31:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31227 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:31:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27484; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:43:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA29431 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:38:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29423 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:38:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6EOVa12346 (3985) for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:38:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <14f6537.251857a6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:38:14 EDT Subject: H-COST: Speaking of Houpelandes....to pleat or not to pleat To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 9/20/99 9:46:16 PM !!!First Boot!!!, rima@anet.net writes: << I've made a couple from the Past Patterns version, and I was wondering if anybody has come up with a clever way of belting these so that you get those wonderful even folds that you see in all the art of the time??? Or do I just need to get my handmaiden to arrange my gown for me ever 20 minutes? Rima Great on those cool winter nights....LOVE feeling my sleeves drag the floor..... >> Actually, those artful folds have to do with how the shoulders are cut in the houppelande. Do you think that "they" had their handmaidens rearrange them every twenty minutes? I don't think so, and this is what prompted me to look for some other way to do it. Those fabu folds that occur in period pictures are due to the fact that when one cuts the shoulders, one cuts them like a smile or a half circle. By cutting the shoulders like so, it forces the shoulders to move on the bias so to speak and forces all the fabric in to your waist and makes lovely folds. Once I started doing that, I never had to fuss with pleating everything into my belt and tugging and pulling every 15 minutes to rearrange me. I am totaly indebted to Mistress Caitlin here in Ansteorra for helping me out with this...I promise that it works. Chas PS I have tried to explain this before and just managed to confuse people...if I did, please email me. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 22:49:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31246 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:49:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29772; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:07:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02752 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:02:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02747 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:02:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA08307 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:02:12 -0400 Message-ID: <37E70346.EA33CFB7@thibault.org> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:02:43 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Speaking of Houpelandes....to pleat or not to pleat References: <14f6537.251857a6@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Chas wrote: > are due to the fact that when one cuts the shoulders, one cuts them like a > smile or a half circle. Oooh, someone else that does this! We had a long discussion here about a year and a half ago when I brought the idea up and did my trial houp in this pattern -- is your version like the following? The article has some pattern drawings. http://www.virtue.to/virtue/articles/circle_houp.html Later on, it was remarked that there are some men's garments in one of the 1500s tailor books that are made like this, so I felt validated for my weird idea. And it works, which is even better. cv _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 22:58:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31267 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:58:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00808; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:16:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04115 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:12:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04106 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:12:43 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6OQPa11143 (3985) for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:12:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:12:06 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Speaking of Houpelandes....to pleat or not to pleat To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 9/21/99 4:05:06 AM !!!First Boot!!!, cvirtue@thibault.org writes: << Oooh, someone else that does this! We had a long discussion here about a year and a half ago when I brought the idea up and did my trial houp in this pattern -- is your version like the following? The article has some pattern drawings. http://www.virtue.to/virtue/articles/circle_houp.html Later on, it was remarked that there are some men's garments in one of the 1500s tailor books that are made like this, so I felt validated for my weird idea. And it works, which is even better. cv >> Yes, my patern is very much like that, except I don't use an entire circle. I use about a 3/4 circle...however on the shoulders..EXACTLY!!!! I am glad someone else does this, because I have gotten some very strange looks when I tell people about it...right Gra/inne..even if they are only virtual ones? :-) As you mentioned...vindication. Chas _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 23:01:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31285 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:01:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01047; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:19:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04535 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:15:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu09.email.msn.com [207.46.181.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04528 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:15:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.156 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:14:19 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: How white was white? Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:03:51 -0400 Message-ID: <000901bf03e9$46e46620$9c0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" There's something in seaweed in certain locales in western England anyway that was used as a bleaching agent. It was quite an industry along the coast. Did I get that right, or was it the lime? Can't remember where I saw that! Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Deborah Pulliam > Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 11:48 AM > To: h-costume-digest@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: How white was white? > > > > -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) > > < possibly have been > white because there was no such thing as bleach. >> > > This doesn't follow. They may not have had chlorine bleach, > but chlorine > bleach isn't the only way to whiten things. > > Linen in particular whitens fairly easily just by drying in the sun. > > There's no doubt they had plenty of white linen and white silk. > > > Deborah > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 23:19:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31307 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:19:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA02570; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:37:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06662 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:33:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA06655 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:33:22 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909210433.WAA06655@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 15249 invoked from network); 20 Sep 1999 22:33:23 -0600 Received: from ts26-10.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.124) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 20 Sep 1999 22:33:23 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Speaking of Houpelandes....to pleat or not to pleat Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:40:19 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" In Elizabeth Birbari's 'Dress in Italian Painting' she has a layout for a dress that is cut on the bias and not quite a half circle. She claims that the bias cut creates a smooth line over the bust to just above the waistline, where the pleats just naturally begin. When I looked at the examples in the paintings my first thought was that the garment resembled a Hoopelande. Has anyone tried her method? And with what result? Kathlene ---------- > From: Fopdejour1@aol.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Speaking of Houpelandes....to pleat or not to pleat > Date: Monday, September 20, 1999 10:12 PM > > > -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com > > In a message dated 9/21/99 4:05:06 AM !!!First Boot!!!, cvirtue@thibault.org > writes: > > << Oooh, someone else that does this! We had a long discussion here about > a year and a half ago when I brought the idea up and did my trial houp > in this pattern -- is your version like the following? The article has > some pattern drawings. > > http://www.virtue.to/virtue/articles/circle_houp.html > > Later on, it was remarked that there are some men's garments in one of > the 1500s tailor books that are made like this, so I felt validated for > my weird idea. And it works, which is even better. > > cv >> > > > Yes, my patern is very much like that, except I don't use an entire circle. > I use about a 3/4 circle...however on the shoulders..EXACTLY!!!! I am glad > someone else does this, because I have gotten some very strange looks when I > tell people about it...right Gra/inne..even if they are only virtual ones? > :-) As you mentioned...vindication. > > Chas > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 23:46:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31340 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:46:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04520; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:04:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA09780 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:00:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA09772 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:00:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-6.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.6]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA20099 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:00:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990921001000.009c0a80@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:10:00 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Danielle's (not mine) underthings: Ever After In-Reply-To: <199909181218.GAA14116@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >My question, (again) their are (2) scenes where we see Danielle without >her dress on. Changing clothes, and swimming. She is wearing an >undergarment the same color as the dress, it appears to be a stiffened >(not boned) bodice that laces up the side back. Has anyone ever seen or >read about such an undergarment? Although, Italian isn't my specialty I find it extremely unlikey that this was accurate. Partly because it seems to be shown as an integral part of her smock (camisa) and we know what early 16th century Italian smocks looked like. And partly because I have never seen any evidence of an early 16th century Italian woman wearing a bodice that wasn't attached to a skirt. Do you have anything to add Eve? Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 23:55:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31350 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:54:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05089; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:13:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA10764 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:09:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA10758 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:09:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wanda (st-ppp12.hevanet.com [198.5.254.186]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA01457 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 22:09:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: A Lurker's Questions Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:58:11 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <937867989.20033.823@excite.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wanda Pease" You might try this URL: http://home.inreach.com/ivanyc/index.html Ivan makes several types of ancient lamps, one of which is probably what you are looking for. They run $15.00 plus $3.00 for shipping. Alternatively you might try the Sadigh Gallery, 303 Fifth Avenue, Suite 1603, NY, NY 10016. URL: http://www.ipgroup.com/sadigh/artifact.htm. They sell the real thing along with a certificate of authenticity FOR $39 to $49. These little lamps turn up in the hundreds of thousands in the Near East, and no museum really needs another, but they do need the money they can bring so they can go on with more important conservation or digs. Regina Romsey Question 2: Where might one find a modern reproduction of an ancient clay oil lamp? I've seen pictures, but do not have a clue who made them. They look a little like what one might expect Aladdin's lamp to look like, they use oil or fat for fuel, and have a wick. I think they were made in Greece, originally. And no, I'm not explaining what I need these for yet. Let me find out if the idea works, first! ;) Kate ---- StitchWitch Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim. - Santayana, Life of Reason, 1905 ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 20 23:57:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31354 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:57:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA05374; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:16:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA11032 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:12:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA11027 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:12:01 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id ELZYYKWC; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:05:23 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 23:53:22 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: A Lurker's Questions Message-ID: <19990920.235914.-742475.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-8,10-59 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com I don't know much about shrouds, but my impression was that they were just plain lengths of white linen. I believe that there were banners which the Guilds used to decorate biers and coffins of members, but I don't think that they were called shrouds. The lamps can be found occasionally at museum stores, especially at museums that have good Near East Antiquity departments. Karen On Mon, 20 Sep 1999 15:53:09 PDT "StitchWitch" writes: > > -Poster: "StitchWitch" > > Hello! > > I missed de-lurking day, but have a couple of questions now. (And > I'll send > in my Procrastinator's Anonymous membership soon, I promise!) > > Question 1: Is there any place I might search for how to make and > embellish > a shroud? Specifically, the kind used in the British Isles called a > winding > sheet. (Hope I've got my terms straight!) IF memory serves, they > used to > make fine ones with embroidery and such, but I need to find some > documentation. > > Question 2: Where might one find a modern reproduction of an ancient > clay > oil lamp? I've seen pictures, but do not have a clue who made them. > They > look a little like what one might expect Aladdin's lamp to look > like, they > use oil or fat for fuel, and have a wick. I think they were made in > Greece, > originally. > > And no, I'm not explaining what I need these for yet. Let me find > out if the > idea works, first! ;) > > Kate > ---- > StitchWitch > > Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have > forgotten your > aim. - Santayana, Life of Reason, 1905 > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com > Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 02:08:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA03378 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:08:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA13577; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:27:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA23101 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:23:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f104.hotmail.com [207.82.250.223]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA23094 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:22:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 96385 invoked by uid 0); 21 Sep 1999 07:22:23 -0000 Message-ID: <19990921072223.96384.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.244.96.22 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:22:23 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.244.96.22] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Eureka!/Re: Questions?/Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:22:23 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Hullo Marc I have two words. Thank you (repeated many, many times). You have a wonderful site. This is going to be a big help. :-) Also, you know Kass McGann. I read her article on the Shinrone gown in Tournaments Illuminated (SCA publication) and I have been trying to find her ever since. The historic clothing reconstruction that you, Ms. McGann, and other folks on this list, are doing is something that I have wanted to do since I was a kid. I was wondering what kind of a degree/education is needed to pursue a career in this. I have an AA in cultural anthropology, an AS in library and information sciences, a BA in cultural anthropology (both anthro degrees have an emphasis in archaeology), and, after a twenty-year hiatus from school, one year's worth of study towards an MFA in costume design. I'm currently taking a break in my studies until I can figure out a way to change my emphasis from design to that of historic clothing study and reconstruction. Up until now, I didn't know where to go for information on this. I have corresponded briefly with the University of Newcastle-Upon-Tyne after seeing a section on reconstructed 13th century leather shoes on their web site. They sent me one of their catalogs. However, I don't think they have the degree I need. The closest one they have is kind of an all-encompassing degree on museum exhibit management. Can any of you help me on this? You are most welcome to use my private e-mail to correspond with me. Thanks much Lonna >From: Marc Carlson >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: Re: Questions?/Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns >Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 09:49:45 -0500 > > >-Poster: Marc Carlson > ><"L.L. Johnson" > > >Sorry to interrupt your correspondence, but this is something that I am >very > >interested in and I would like to learn more. Are there any pictures of > >these cotes? Or any exhibits that are open to the public? Can you suggest > >some books that I might read? I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but >this > >is how I learn. :-) > > > >Any information given would be greatly appreciated. > >Certainly. All the information I currently have, including sources, and so >forth are at >http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/cloth/bockhome.html. >This changes as I learn more. > >Marc > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 02:43:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA27941 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:43:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA16061; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:02:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA25866 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:57:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (mta4.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA25859 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:57:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net (ppp-206-170-71-100.irvn11.pacbell.net) by mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FIE006M6GSDEE@mta4.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:57:51 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:02:00 +0000 From: Dietmar Subject: H-COST: Re: How white was white To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <37E6D903.B25EF4F5@pacbell.net> Organization: Completely Disorganized MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <16d52c90.25181e70@aol.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Charlene B. wrote: > Liquid bluing is still available (thing "blue-haired ladies" who use bluing > to take the dingy yellow cast out of white hair. Actually, bluing agents are most commonly found in dry laundry detergent. They are used to fake the eye into thinking that fabric is whiter than it really is (with the added benefit of making them florescent under black light). The reason old ladies have blue hair is that as they age, the color receptors in their brain see the blue hair as white, when in reality it's not. They think they're dying their hair white. Dietmar  "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 03:14:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA27989 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 03:14:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA17618; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:33:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA28236 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:27:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA28224 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:27:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.153] (sdts10-63.znet.net [207.167.66.63]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id BAA09751 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:27:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <37E6E37A.EC875C5A@inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:45:01 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Early 16th cent German reference Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: Melanie Schuessler > >I've been reading the discussion on 16th century German underpinnings with >interest--thanks for all the practical information! I have a reference to >pass along for bookaholics, I mean those who like to research. It is not a >book that I own, but it does have a great number of 16th century German >portraits and woodcuts/etchings, etc. The text is in German, and I'm sure >it is very informative (wish my German were better!). > >_Textiler Hausrat >Kleidung und Haustextilen in Nurnberg von 1500-1650_ >by >Jutta Zander-Seidel >published in 1990 >ISBN 3-422-06067-7 I have the book. Its great. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 03:15:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA27995 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 03:15:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA17621; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:33:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA28241 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:27:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA28233 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:27:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.153] (sdts10-63.znet.net [207.167.66.63]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id BAA09761 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:27:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909210223.TAA18486@eclipse.pacifier.com> References: <37E6E37A.EC875C5A@inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 00:47:31 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Early 16th cent German Corsetry- Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >> Calling this look the "German Tudor" silhouette is like fingers on a >> chalkboard to me. In Germany, they didn't have much at all to do with >> this Henry VIII fellow. > >They might not have anything to do with each other except that the >clothing in Germany and England for men was very similar during this >part of the 16th C. All over Europe they seem pretty similar. Some excellent details that apply to both Spanish and German's men's costuming can also be found in "Hispanic Costuming" by Ruth Matilda Anderson. >Women, on the other hand, were quite different. (Look at the >differences between Anne of Cleves and the other queens of HVIII.) Agreed. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 03:15:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA27993 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 03:15:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA17624; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:33:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA28251 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:27:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA28245 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 02:27:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.153] (sdts10-63.znet.net [207.167.66.63]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id BAA09769 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:27:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001101bf038c$30ece700$953d1d26@buck> References: <004901bf0387$a7de5f60$d2df7ad1@martha> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 01:23:12 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Early 16th Cent German Corsetry? (Really LONG) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams > Does anyone know any good resource for corsetry worn under the puff >and slash type gowns. Was it any different from the other countries >corsetry? (I have seen some reference to the Italian style of dress of >the period that said corsetry may not have been worn.) I will be working >off Period Patternst # 40, the only reference to undergarments it makes >is that the silhouette slightly flattened the bust and that it should be >worn over a shift. Are you talking about that German Renn pattern? I don't know the number. I assume so by your title... There are examples of fitted undergowns in Italian costuming that provide enough support, and there is a lot of overlap in Italian and German costuming. As far as I have found, in the Holy Roman Empire (German 16th c Costume), there is no documentation for a separate corset.... BUT... If you look at the tapestries from only slightly earlier in the northern end of the empire (the Netherlands) and if you look at some of the gown sillouettes, it is clear that *sometimes* German women wore some kind of structured garment to keep a clean line on their garment. This sillouette never looks quite like the conical Tudor, but has a free bustline and rounded waist. People have tried German Renn dresses over Victorian corsets and had it look perfect. Looking at the "Book of Trades" by Jost Amman, you see an interesting example of a dress inside out, it is slightly later square-necked bodice, but it almost looks like some kind of cup support is built in that goes under and around the bust. But the problem with the "placket front" popular Saxon gown that is common in paintings by Lucas Cranach, is that there are many pictures showing them with the placket flapping open and down, unconnected to the bodice on both sides, bare-breasted in the "Lucretia" pose. In these paintings, the placket is soft, flimsy and definitely NOT boned, yet there is no undergarment AT all (no chemise either). The paintings are done my many artists (though most available in books are by Cranach). What does this mean? My guess is that the gown was probably made to fit over some kind of corselette or fitted undergarment, and is being worn by the person for the "sitting" of the painting without her undergarments so she can show her bare breast... And these paintings are all of young hard-bodied youthful ladies of high firm breast and no extra flesh... Those of us who have tried making many variations and test models of this gown find that those with no "extra flesh" can bone the bodice and placket to some degree and get a decent sillouette of it, but I doubt that the real garments were made that way due to the consistancy of the soft placket in the paintings. Those with a bit more of a "sumptuous" figure will need to do some kind of structured underpinnings or the lacings on the placket will not lay correctly and will fall into the "natural" folds one's body makes when bending and moving. On folk gowns in the Nuremburg Bayerisches museum there are gowns of almost identical styles (different fabrics though) from about 150 yrs later that we are talking. These gowns have completely separate plackets that hook into the inside of the bodice. The invisible lacing is hooked through a sideways "S" kind of lacing hook just inside the edge of the bodice. I have not found this kind of hook currently, so I use a strap of eyelets sewn just inside the bodice edge instead. If its the pattern I am thinking, the bustline is cut rather oddly and the waist is set for a VERY long waisted person. Double check that the finished bodice should be exactly at your waist or even up to 1-1.5" above your natural waist. I would smooth out the sharp curve in the bodice around the bust. The skirt is also rather skimpy in fabric and is cut as a rectangle. The gown will look more correct if you cut the skirt as a circle or heavily gored skirt and knife pleat, box pleat or organ-pipe pleat the skirt onto a tape (that should then be handsewn inside the bodice and placket.. While cartridge pleating is not really correct for an early 16th c German, it can give a similar look to the organ pipe pleating if it is done shallowly on a circle cut skirt with tapes sewn inside to hold the skirts in place. Anyway, few people will really notice if its cartridge pleated rectangular section, and most people do it that way (because its WAY easier to do banding on the flat with a machine, but that is not true if you are handsewing....) Cartridge pleating leaves a "shelf" at the waist which is not present with the earlier 16th c gowns and ends up wasting a LOT of fabric compared to a carefully calculated circle. And example of how to do the lovely organ pipe pleating shown in many Cranach gowns can be found in History of Costume by Blanche Payne (but ONLY in the FIRST Edition with the pattern graphs in it). Kohler and the second edition show pictures of the extant "bases" done in organ pipe pleats. There is a garment shown in Jost Amman's Book of Trades, in I believe it is the tailor's shop, where a gown is being hung so the pleats are set. Tapes are tacked to the inside of the skirts to keep the pleats in place. You can see some of my basecoats done using organ pipe pleating and a few decent placket front gowns at my website. Warning, my women's costume guidelines is about 4 yrs old and outdated in some aspects - new research overcame the info.. http://www.znet.com/~savaskan/germans/ Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 04:03:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28114 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 04:03:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20158; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 03:22:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA20287 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 03:17:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20181 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 03:17:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.57.106]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990921091253.HDRD15248.mta3-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:12:53 +0100 Message-ID: <37E7B2B3.5E5@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:30:43 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Eureka!/Re: Questions?/Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns References: <19990921072223.96384.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dawn L.L. Johnson wrote: > > -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" > > > > I was wondering what kind of a degree/education is needed to pursue a career > in this. I have an AA in cultural anthropology, an AS in library and > information sciences, a BA in cultural anthropology (both anthro degrees > have an emphasis in archaeology), and, after a twenty-year hiatus from > school, one year's worth of study towards an MFA in costume design. I'm > currently taking a break in my studies until I can figure out a way to > change my emphasis from design to that of historic clothing study and > reconstruction. Up until now, I didn't know where to go for information on > this. > > I have corresponded briefly with the University of Newcastle-Upon-Tyne after > seeing a section on reconstructed 13th century leather shoes on their web > site. They sent me one of their catalogs. However, I don't think they have > the degree I need. The closest one they have is kind of an all-encompassing > degree on museum exhibit management. > > Can any of you help me on this? You are most welcome to use my private > e-mail to correspond with me. > > Thanks much > > Lonna > >Unfortunately in England there are no practical research degree courses. The Courtaulds have an MA in costume course where most of the published costume historians went but this is academic not practical and is very difficult to get into. The london school of fashion and wimbledon art college have theatre costume courses which are practical but only academic to a certain degree I often take placement students from these colleges and the course are very good particularly Wimbledon's. Wimbledon were talking some years ago of setting up a practical research degree course but I don't think it came off. I followed this with interest for a while as I have also been looking for something like this for many years. All my research comes with the jobs I get in and extra curricular projects I decide to do for myself which means unfortunately I don't have time to do much of any other kind, much as I would love to although after 15 years I have learnt rather a lot, as whilst I am researching and writing articles I can't be making a living sewing so it's a catch 22. Decide which you would rather do sew or research for your actual occupation and then take your course from there the rest will come as you need it. Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 04:10:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28127 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 04:10:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA20370; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 03:29:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA21791 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 03:24:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA21597 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 03:24:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.57.106]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990921092508.HWZ7368.mta1-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:25:08 +0100 Message-ID: <37E7B423.4B06@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:36:51 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Speaking of Houpelandes....to pleat or not to pleat References: <199909210433.WAA06655@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dawn K & J Hopkins wrote: > > -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > > In Elizabeth Birbari's 'Dress in Italian Painting' she has a layout for a > dress that is cut on the bias and not quite a half circle. She claims that > the bias cut creates a smooth line over the bust to just above the > waistline, where the pleats just naturally begin. When I looked at the > examples in the paintings my first thought was that the garment resembled a > Hoopelande. > > Has anyone tried her method? And with what result? Yes I have years ago and it works beautifully. I also cut my houpplenades on a circular system it's the only way to gat the bulk at the bottom without spoiling the chest area and a lovely swing at the bottom. Contrary to popular opinion Madeline Vionnet did not invent the bias cut I have a 13thc hose pattern which shows differently, she just brought it into the 20th century. Dawn > > Kathlene > > ---------- > > From: Fopdejour1@aol.com > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > Subject: Re: H-COST: Speaking of Houpelandes....to pleat or not to pleat > > Date: Monday, September 20, 1999 10:12 PM > > > > > > -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com > > > > In a message dated 9/21/99 4:05:06 AM !!!First Boot!!!, > cvirtue@thibault.org > > writes: > > > > << Oooh, someone else that does this! We had a long discussion here > about > > a year and a half ago when I brought the idea up and did my trial houp > > in this pattern -- is your version like the following? The article has > > some pattern drawings. > > > > http://www.virtue.to/virtue/articles/circle_houp.html > > > > Later on, it was remarked that there are some men's garments in one of > > the 1500s tailor books that are made like this, so I felt validated for > > my weird idea. And it works, which is even better. > > > > cv >> > > > > > > Yes, my patern is very much like that, except I don't use an entire > circle. > > I use about a 3/4 circle...however on the shoulders..EXACTLY!!!! I am > glad > > someone else does this, because I have gotten some very strange looks > when I > > tell people about it...right Gra/inne..even if they are only virtual > ones? > > :-) As you mentioned...vindication. > > > > Chas > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 05:11:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA28160 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 05:11:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA22338; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 04:29:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA00303 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 04:25:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spamgaae.compuserve.com (as-img-5.compuserve.com [149.174.217.148]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA00292 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 04:25:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spamgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.6) id GAA09210 for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 06:24:55 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 06:23:58 -0400 From: Melanie Wilson Subject: H-COST: White To: "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Message-ID: <199909210623_MC2-85A5-AC70@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id EAA00295 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Melanie Wilson >Actually, bluing agents are most commonly found in dry laundry detergent. They are used to fake the eye into thinking that fabric is whiter than it really is (with the added benefit of making them florescent under black light). The things that make white appear very bright are OBAs(optical brightening agents) they are a dye basically, you get all shades I used to colour match them. They are certainly in many UK washing powders and on most whites and yes glow under Ultra Violet light. They take in light and reflect back at a different wavelength to make it seem brighter. >The reason old ladies have blue hair is that as they age, the color receptors in their brain see the blue hair as white, when in reality it's not. They think they're dying their hair white. I wonder why its called a Blue rinse then ? Old eyes see things yellower than younger eyes.... who know which eyes see it correctly ? Mel _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 07:21:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28402 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:21:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28255; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 06:40:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA12468 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 06:36:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA12461 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 06:35:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-62-139.s139.tnt2.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.62.139]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA04830 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:35:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000f01bf042d$7a922220$8b3eaccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: Last Day Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:33:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" A quick reminder... today is the last day to send me pictures for the Online Costume Ball '99. Go to http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/attend.htm for directions. The Ball will begin Sept. 30. Later... Penny (Keeper of the Ball) http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 07:45:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28450 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:45:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA29521; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:04:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA15234 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 06:59:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15228 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 06:59:41 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6UPSa03813 (4318) for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:59:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <842d769c.2518db1c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:59:08 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: How white was white To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com Bluing works by covering or "counteracting" the yellow, thus making whites look whiter. Fluorescent whiteners, on the other hand, absorb invisible ultraviolet radiation and emit it as visible light, making the fabric look brighter. (Betty Smith and Ira Block, Textiles in Perspective.) I realize we are getting way off topic here; fluorescent whiteners are definitely modern, but I wanted to set the record straight. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 07:55:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28464 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:55:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00279; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:14:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA16296 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:09:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA16288 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:09:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.117] (ell133.acadia.net [205.217.218.117]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA26704 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:18:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:07:35 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: Re: Questions Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Keep in mind all of the Courtauld programs are history of art courses, which is quite different from a history course. Not better or worse, just different. Depends on what you're interested in, and what you plan to do. Winchester has an excellent program. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 08:07:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28481 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:07:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01118; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:26:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18418 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:21:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18408 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:21:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-196-91.s91.tnt5.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.196.91]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA06503 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:22:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000d01bf0435$a9f13bc0$5bc47ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <37E6E37A.EC875C5A@inreach.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Early 16th cent German Corsetry- Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:31:50 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > I know that people use corsets for this style but the correct silhouette > can be achieved by other methods. The corsets of other countries during > the same time period won't give the right look. Actually an Italian Ren corset does give the right look. The desired effect is the same, slightly flattened and stuffed uni-boob. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 08:17:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28521 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:17:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02279; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:36:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA20150 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:32:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20140 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:32:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA02601 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:32:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24286 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:32:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:32:46 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Danielle's (not mine) underthings: Ever After In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19990921001000.009c0a80@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed I think the close-fitting supportive undergarment which Danielle is seen wearing would be closest to a "farsinetto", which is basically a supportive, sleeveless undergarment worn under gowns in 15th century Italy. That's about all I know about it. An expert on the subject mentioned it on this list some time ago...Carole Frick? I think it was she. Drea On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Danielle Nunn wrote: > > -Poster: Danielle Nunn > > Greetings, > > >My question, (again) their are (2) scenes where we see Danielle without > >her dress on. Changing clothes, and swimming. She is wearing an > >undergarment the same color as the dress, it appears to be a stiffened > >(not boned) bodice that laces up the side back. Has anyone ever seen or > >read about such an undergarment? > > Although, Italian isn't my specialty I find it extremely unlikey that this > was accurate. Partly because it seems to be shown as an integral part of > her smock (camisa) and we know what early 16th century Italian smocks > looked like. And partly because I have never seen any evidence of an early > 16th century Italian woman wearing a bodice that wasn't attached to a skirt. > > Do you have anything to add Eve? > > Cheers, > Danielle > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 08:23:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28543 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:23:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02813; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:41:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA20995 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:37:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20976 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:37:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA02826 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA24774 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:37:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:37:59 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: German costuming books Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed Thanks for the tip on Textiler Hausrat! I just ordered it. Does anyone on the list know of other German works on the subject of renaissance costume? Or medieval costume, for that matter? I found a listing for the book "Kleidung und Waffen der Frueh und Hochgotik (1150-1320)" (Clothing and Weapons of the Early and Middle Gothic age) by Ulrich Lehnert, and was wondering if anyone had read it or knew how worthwhile a purchase it would be. Thanks, Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 08:51:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28613 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:51:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05544; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:10:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA25856 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:06:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from edison.cps.k12.il.us ([207.63.248.111]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25849 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:06:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from execpc.com (10.11.11.12) by edison.cps.k12.il.us with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.0); Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:13:54 -0500 Message-ID: <37E790CE.DAE77AA3@execpc.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:06:04 -0500 From: Gail Smith Organization: Edison Regional Gifted Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:OT Century/millennium References: <199909201649.KAA13177@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gail Smith According to several dictionaries that I consulted, a century is simply a period of 100 years--ANY 100 years. So if the hype-mongers wish to consider this century as "the 100 years that start with 19xx", it would follow that the century ends in 1999. How you would like to relate it to the millennium is up to you. I, for one, will be celebrating the new year and the change to 2000 just as any New Year's Eve--at home with my family. In conclusion then, there is no one RIGHT way to count centuries. I understand your explanation, but it assumes that a century must be started with the 'established' date for the birth of Christ, and according to the dictionary definitions, that is not the correct meaning of "century." -- -- Gail Smith, Cybr@rian Edison Regional Gifted Center, Chicago gsmith@edison.cps.k12.il.us or gails@flash.net * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Yesterday is History............Tomorrow is a Mystery Today is a Gift................That’s why they call it The Present. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 09:11:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28688 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:11:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08218; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:30:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA29469 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:25:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA29460 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:25:52 -0600 (MDT) From: Marionetta@aol.com Received: from Marionetta@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6JPTa21483 (4418) for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:25:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <5a3296aa.2518ef42@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:25:06 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Early 16th Cent German cartridge pleats vs organ pipe To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com I was a bit confused to hear that these were organ pipe pleated not cartridge pleated, I had hear from some authority somewhere (can't recall who anymore) that organ pipe pleats were just large cartridge pleats. If this isn't true could someone please try to explain what they are? Thanks. Loren Dearborn marionetta@aol.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 09:11:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28695 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:11:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08266; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:30:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA29554 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:26:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA29545 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:26:16 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909211426.IAA29545@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 22538 invoked from network); 21 Sep 1999 08:26:17 -0600 Received: from ts25-19.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.11.34) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 21 Sep 1999 08:26:17 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Danielle's (not mine) underthings: Ever After Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:33:06 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" ---------- > Partly because it seems to be shown as an integral part of > her smock (camisa) and we know what early 16th century Italian smocks > looked like. In the scene where she is changing her clothes, preparing to buy back the servant, you can see the back of the garment. It is unlaced, and obviously separate from the chemise. >And partly because I have never seen any evidence of an early > 16th century Italian woman wearing a bodice that wasn't attached to a skirt. As Michelle pointed out, Janet Arnold mentions, that underneath the Eleanora of Toledo satin bodice is a red velvet bodice or 'bodies' that closed in the front with hooks and eyes. Page 40, illus. #286. (Thanks again Michelle) It would be neat to see the color version of the photo. I also think it would be neat to talk to the costume designers of 'costume' movies. Find out where they got their ideas, pick their brains. I would especially like to talk to the designer of the movie 'Artemisia'. Fabulous Italian!! Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 09:26:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28739 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:26:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10507; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:45:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02957 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:40:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02949 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:40:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-62-139.s139.tnt2.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.62.139]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA01863 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:40:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00be01bf043e$e6f28480$8b3eaccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: Latest issue of People Magazine Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:37:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" The Sept. 20 issue of People magazine is devoted to fashion. In this issue is the Best & Worst Dressed article is featured. But there are other good articles... "Hollywood Heyday" has legendary leading ladies recall the styles that defined their images and their times. But the treasure article is "A Century of Style", a double page photo spread of Sandy Schreier's private vintage collection. She has over 15,000 items in her collection and is the author of Hollywood Dressed and Undressed: A Century of Cinema. The magazine ends with the funniest article, "Many Me". This article is about two or more stars who have been photographed wearing the same outfit (my nightmare). What is really a giggle, is that the outfit may look great on one star, but really bad on another. Gee, this is the first current magazine, I have read from cover to cover in a long time. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 09:29:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28750 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:29:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10913; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:47:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA03519 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:43:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet-smtp2.oracle.com (inet-smtp2.oracle.com [205.227.43.29]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA03510 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:43:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet-smtp2.oracle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA22278 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:41:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id HAA16958; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:43:34 -0700 Message-ID: <37E7995F.3AE1B197@us.oracle.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:42:39 -0400 From: Elizabeth Jones Organization: Oracle Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Oil lamps Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9CAEFA6F77BBCCB322C6367F" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Jones This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9CAEFA6F77BBCCB322C6367F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kate/ Stitchwitch@excite.com wrote: Where might one find a modern reproduction of an ancient clay oil lamp? I have one that I bought in Rome at one of the Catacomb gift shops. I don't have any information how to contact them, but thought it might help! Regards, Liz Jones --------------9CAEFA6F77BBCCB322C6367F Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ljones.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Elizabeth Jones Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ljones.vcf" begin:vcard n:;Elizabeth Jones x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr;dom;quoted-printable:;;Oracle Corporation =0D=0A100 Summit Lake Drive;Valhalla;NY;10595; org:Global Networks version:2.1 email;internet:ljones@us.oracle.com title:Senior Project Manager tel;fax:203-267-5856 tel;work:914-773-8169 x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Elizabeth Jones end:vcard --------------9CAEFA6F77BBCCB322C6367F-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 09:33:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28756 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:33:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11433; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:51:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA04358 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:47:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA04346 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:47:39 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909211447.IAA04346@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 28745 invoked from network); 21 Sep 1999 08:47:38 -0600 Received: from ts26-02.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.116) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 21 Sep 1999 08:47:38 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Early 16th Cent German cartridge pleats vs organ pipe Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:54:28 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" In the book, 'The Art of Manipulating Fabric', 'cartridge' pleating looks just like a the fabric or leather piece that is sewn on a belt, making up a 'cartridge belt'. (I hope that makes sense) On the other hand, 'butted' cartridge pleating is what I associate with costuming. As far as organ pleats, I am also interested in how they work. Kathlene ---------- > From: Marionetta@aol.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Early 16th Cent German cartridge pleats vs organ pipe > Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 8:25 AM > > > -Poster: Marionetta@aol.com > > > I was a bit confused to hear that these were organ pipe pleated not cartridge > pleated, I had hear from some authority somewhere (can't recall who anymore) > that organ pipe pleats were just large cartridge pleats. If this isn't true > could someone please try to explain what they are? Thanks. > > Loren Dearborn > marionetta@aol.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 09:37:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28764 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:37:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12113; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:55:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA05329 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:51:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (firewall-user@fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA05322; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:51:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id PAA14830; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by net.indra.com, id smtpd014819; Tue Sep 21 15:57:35 1999 Received: by cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:55:25 -0700 Message-ID: From: Betsy Perry To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" , "INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" Subject: RE: H-COST: White Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:55:21 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Betsy Perry > > >The reason old ladies have blue hair is that as they age, the color > receptors > in their brain see the blue hair as white, when in reality > it's not. They > think they're dying their hair white. > Actually, old ladies aren't as dim as all that. Many modern shampoos advertise themselves as adding a blue tint, because most people find bluish white hair more attractive than yellowish white hair. It's a fashion choice like any other. Grey-haired but not yet an old lady, Betsy Perry _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 10:21:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28803 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:21:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20844; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:40:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA17607 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:35:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet-smtp1.oracle.com (inet-smtp1.oracle.com [209.246.15.57]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA17598 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:35:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet-smtp1.oracle.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA07299 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:36:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id IAA23212; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:34:34 -0700 Message-ID: <37E7A552.692309A4@us.oracle.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:33:39 -0400 From: Elizabeth Jones Organization: Oracle Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Textiler Hausrat questions Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------8B9AE1C425627A944BA972BA" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Jones This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8B9AE1C425627A944BA972BA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Julie and Melanie and anyone else who has seen the book "Textiler Hausrat": How good is it? I can muddle my way through some German, but not enough to read too much. Therefore, I would be buying it for the pictures only. I am a costume historian/research type of person, but wanted to be sure it was worth the money. What makes this so special? Are there woodcuts and other extant pieces in it that are not seen in other sources? Please advise - it looks tempting! Liz Jones ljones@us.oracle.com --------------8B9AE1C425627A944BA972BA Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ljones.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Elizabeth Jones Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ljones.vcf" begin:vcard n:;Elizabeth Jones x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr;dom;quoted-printable:;;Oracle Corporation =0D=0A100 Summit Lake Drive;Valhalla;NY;10595; org:Global Networks version:2.1 email;internet:ljones@us.oracle.com title:Senior Project Manager tel;fax:203-267-5856 tel;work:914-773-8169 x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Elizabeth Jones end:vcard --------------8B9AE1C425627A944BA972BA-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 10:22:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28807 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:22:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21033; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:40:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18025 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:36:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA18008 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:36:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA09027 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:36:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA05368 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:37:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:37:01 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Rolled pleats? In-Reply-To: <001601bf03cf$30ccb960$fb3d1d26@buck> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed Rolled pleats (also called stacked pleats, I found out) are basically a series of fabric rolls. You pinch a piece of fabric up, roll it two or three times, and flatten it down. Here's a diagram: ______________ | __________ | | |_______ | | |_________| | | _________________| |___________ Drea On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Dean Quackenbush wrote: > > -Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" > > > Drea, what are rolled pleats? > > Organ-pipe pleats are another name for what I believe she is referring to. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gail DeCamp > To: > Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 4:53 PM > Subject: H-COST: Rolled pleats? > > > > > > -Poster: Gail DeCamp > > > > > > Drea Leed posted: > > > > >I haven't seen anything regarding bumrolls, either...but I've found that > > >when I use a small & loosely stuffed one under a skirt pleated with > rolled > > >pleats, it looks smack out of a Cranach painting. > > > > Drea, what are rolled pleats? > > > > thanks > > > > Gail DeCamp > > > > > > Dogs come when you call them. Cats have answering machines. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 10:35:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28841 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:35:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22940; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:53:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA21388 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:48:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21376 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:48:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p31.directcon.net [206.170.184.130]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA27696 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:49:19 -0700 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:49:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199909211549.IAA27696@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: Eureka!/Re: Questions?/Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >Also, you know Kass McGann. I read her article on the Shinrone gown in >Tournaments Illuminated (SCA publication) and I have been trying to find her >ever since. She can be reached at kass@adviceco.com Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 10:47:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28860 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:47:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24540; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:04:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24847 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:00:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24826 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:00:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from 132.198.103.243 (132.198.103.243) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.845F83E0@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:00:29 -0500 Message-ID: <37E7BBA1.65A4@uvm.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:09:04 -0500 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Macintosh; I; PPC) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Rolled pleats? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Hope Greenberg aleed wrote: > Rolled pleats (also called stacked pleats, I found out) are basically a > series of fabric rolls. You pinch a piece of fabric up, roll it two or > three times, and flatten it down. Here's a diagram: I think I want to try this for the gown I'm working on (1530s English--first time I'm making one--needs to be done in time for coronation this Saturday--right!!). Anyway, once you flatten down the pleats to you sew this "right sides together" to the bodice or butt it onto a band (like cartridge pleating?) and sew the band to the bodice or what? The fabric I'm working with is a fine dress-weight wool twill. The pattern is roughly the Jane Seymour or Kateryn Parr (the one formerly known as Jane Grey). Does it work well with rectangular panels? - Hope P.S. And Drea--put me down as another happy "corset-generator" customer--it worked beautifully! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 11:13:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28934 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:13:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA28513; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:30:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02095 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:25:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [209.246.15.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02053 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:25:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA18205 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:25:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id JAA05555; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:25:19 -0700 Message-ID: <37E7B137.50E0C381@us.oracle.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:24:24 -0400 From: Elizabeth Jones Organization: Oracle Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Books Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------75595DEF2F3BCBBD4C507031" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Jones This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------75595DEF2F3BCBBD4C507031 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Rebecca Schmitt wrote: If I were to be starting a costuming library, what books would be "must haves"? My areas of interest at this moment are Elizabethan, early Crusades in Jerusalem, and Edwardian (probably enough for now!)" Here are a few from my library: Must Have - specific to Elizabethan/late 16th century costume Janet Arnold: Queen Elizabeth's Wardobe Unlock'd Janet Arnold: Patterns of Fashion 1580-1620 (dates unsure) Jane Ashelford: Costume in the Age of Elizabeth I Jane Ashelford: Visual History of Costume: The 16th century Nora Waugh: Cut of Men's Clothes 1600-1900 Nora Waugh: Cut of Women's Clothes 1600-1930 (dates unsure) RW Trump: Drafting and Constructing a Simple Doublet and Trunkhose of the Spanish Renaissance (very hands on) Good for Art: Roy Strong: Various textx - I have the English Renaissance Miniature text General "good" costume texts with pertinent information Blanche Payne: History of Costume Milia Davenport: The Book of Costume Francois Boucher: 20,000 Years of Fashion Hope this helps! Liz Jones --------------75595DEF2F3BCBBD4C507031 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ljones.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Elizabeth Jones Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ljones.vcf" begin:vcard n:;Elizabeth Jones x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr;dom;quoted-printable:;;Oracle Corporation =0D=0A100 Summit Lake Drive;Valhalla;NY;10595; org:Global Networks version:2.1 email;internet:ljones@us.oracle.com title:Senior Project Manager tel;fax:203-267-5856 tel;work:914-773-8169 x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Elizabeth Jones end:vcard --------------75595DEF2F3BCBBD4C507031-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 11:15:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28938 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:15:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29176; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:33:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03375 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:29:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03356 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:29:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p31.directcon.net [206.170.184.130]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA31634 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:29:47 -0700 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:29:47 -0700 Message-Id: <199909211629.JAA31634@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Rolled pleats? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:37 AM 09/21/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: aleed > > >Rolled pleats (also called stacked pleats, I found out) are basically a >series of fabric rolls. You pinch a piece of fabric up, roll it two or >three times, and flatten it down. Here's a diagram: > I used a variation of this for my new Flemish gown (pictures on the website in a few days) . What I did was to make a flat pleat, then return to the start point and make another flat pleat in the opposite direction, tucking it in under the first one. Clear as mud, you say? I'll try to include a sketch, too, as ASKI is beyond me. It looks like a more rounded, fuller version of a box pleat, and uses a 5:1 ratio. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 11:22:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28965 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:22:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00391; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:40:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05305 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:35:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05296 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:35:50 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23846; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:35:40 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA00896; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:35:35 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:35:35 -0500 (CDT) To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME cc: SCA-GARB@LIST.UVM.EDU Subject: H-COST: Gloves Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches@io.com I would like to put out a general call for commercial glove patterns. Please look at your personal collections of commercial patterns and see if there are any glove patterns in there. If you are willing to share a photocopy of it I will compensate you but mainly I am trying to compile a listing for my glove web page of all the known patterns and the designers of the patterns. Thanks! Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 11:39:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29019 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:39:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03393; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:58:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10012 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:53:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09992 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:53:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem80.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.208] helo=herimats) by mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11TTAX-0007Rk-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:53:30 +0100 Message-ID: <007001bf0451$d9659b00$5f075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <37E7B137.50E0C381@us.oracle.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Books Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:53:04 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "LDMundy" Amongst many , there is one book that I find very useful for hasty reference; with such a bad memeory its important to me. John Peacocks -Costume 1066-1990; It's just pictures with overwritten short notes ( but it is only UK in most parts) 130?pages at 8 illustrations per page, broken down into the relevant periods It's simplistic but quick. A major jewel in my collection is a very thin ex-school book- Iris Brooke James Laver; English Costume of the 18th Century; again a picture plus a page of notes on each opening; but it breaks the new fashions down into 5 year periods or less; It covers changes in cuff fashions as well as wig styles and neckties. It helps me make sense of a very complicated century; Published initially in 1931;the foreword contains my most favourite of quotes:_--- "Costume is not a triviality; it is the visible raiment of the soul" May be of some interest to our US friends Just a word of warning for people about to invest in the Janet Arnold books; The Patterns of Fashion volume numbers left me a bit confused and led to me getting the wrongs ones ; I wanted them all but was only buying as I could spend. Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 11:51:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA29036 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:51:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05278; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:10:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA13209 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:05:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from h4.mail.home.com (h4.mail.home.com [24.0.0.57]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13180 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:05:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990921163721.PSE4476.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:37:21 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:35:57 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: White From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990921163721.PSE4476.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "R.L. Shep" When I worked for Max Factor in their Foreign Dept - one of my many past lives - we used to get lectures by the make-up artists and they claimed that the reason why Older women often wear so much gaudy make-up is that they get tired of seeing their face in the mirror - day after day, year after year - and the feel they want a *lift* so they put on redder lipstick or blacker liner or lots of rouge. I can remember my mother going through the same thing and she would wear really BRIGHT clothing with lots of beads and jewelry and bright red nails and lipstick. I don't remember her doing that when I was younger. Older women's attitude towards their hair is somewhat the same. They do not see it as *blue* but as *bright*. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: Betsy Perry >To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" ,"INTERNET:h-costume-digest@indra.com" >Subject: RE: H-COST: White >Date: Tue, Sep 21, 1999, 7:55 AM > > >-Poster: Betsy Perry > > >> >> >The reason old ladies have blue hair is that as they age, the color >> receptors >> in their brain see the blue hair as white, when in reality >> it's not. They >> think they're dying their hair white. >> > >Actually, old ladies aren't as dim as all that. Many modern shampoos >advertise themselves as adding a blue tint, because most people find bluish >white hair more attractive than yellowish white hair. It's a fashion choice >like any other. > >Grey-haired but not yet an old lady, > >Betsy Perry > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 12:16:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29082 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:16:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09101; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:33:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19566 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:29:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [209.246.15.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19551 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:29:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA16968 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:29:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id KAA03010; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:29:28 -0700 Message-ID: <37E7C03F.94EAB83@us.oracle.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:28:31 -0400 From: Elizabeth Jones Organization: Oracle Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Test of attachments Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Jones Sorry for the stupid attachments on my earlier posts. This is a test to ensure I get rid of them! Thanks.... _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 12:27:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29092 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:27:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10518; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:43:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22152 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:39:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22131 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:39:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.57.102]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990921173819.CVW10190.mta2-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:38:19 +0100 Message-ID: <37E82833.4BD5@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:52:03 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How white was white? References: <000901bf03e9$46e46620$9c0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dawn Hope H. Dunlap wrote: > > -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" > > There's something in seaweed in certain locales in western > England anyway that was used as a bleaching agent. It was > quite an industry along the coast. Did I get that right, > or was it the lime? Can't remember where I saw that! > > Hope H. Dunlap > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com > [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > > Behalf Of Deborah Pulliam > > Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 11:48 AM > > To: h-costume-digest@indra.com > > Subject: H-COST: How white was white? > > > > > > > > -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) > > > > < > possibly have been > > white because there was no such thing as bleach. >> > > > > This doesn't follow. They may not have had chlorine > bleach, > > but chlorine > > bleach isn't the only way to whiten things. > > > > Linen in particular whitens fairly easily just by drying > in the sun. > > > > There's no doubt they had plenty of white linen and white > silk. > > > > > > Deborah > > > > > >I think it's probably lime you are thinking of. I was once told by Janet Arnold that it was fashionable during the late Elizabethan period to have non white ruffs and indigo or saffron was added to the starch to colour them also something for red but I can't remember off the top of my head what that was, possibly alkanet root which was also used for rouge and lipstain as an alternative to red lead. I have tried it when I made a set for a museum and you need a lot of saffron to get a decent colour so it was obviously also some kind of prestige thing due to cost. Dawn > ____________________________________________________________ > _____ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 12:27:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29096 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:27:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10517; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:43:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22122 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:39:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net (mta2-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.143]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22104 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:39:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.57.102]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990921173813.CVH10190.mta2-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:38:13 +0100 Message-ID: <37E82666.6809@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:44:22 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Gloves References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dawn ches@io.com wrote: > > -Poster: ches@io.com > > I would like to put out a general call for commercial glove patterns. > Please look at your personal collections of commercial patterns and see if > there are any glove patterns in there. If you are willing to share a > photocopy of it I will compensate you but mainly I am trying to compile a > listing for my glove web page of all the known patterns and the > designers of the patterns. Thanks! > My set of glove patterns came from a leather company in Liverpool called AL Maugham I will try and find the address. I bought them about 20 years ago and have used them constantly but I am sure you can still get them from the company. When I make period gloves as opposed to the modern ones I just adapt the pattern accordingly using examples in Diderot's encyclopedia and also measurements etc from photographs I took from the V&A's glove collection and the Spence collection of gloves at Bath. I'd be very interested in seeing your web page as gloves are my pet thing. It's just unfortunate that most people see them as last minute often unecessary additions so aren't prepared to pay realistic prices for them Dawn > Sincerely, > F. Havas > ches@io.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 12:28:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29104 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:28:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10971; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:46:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22881 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:42:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (alpha.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.21.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22832 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:42:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from antiquity.pbc.adelphia.net (surf12-151-235.pbc.adelphia.net [24.48.151.235]) by alpha.pbc.adelphia.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with SMTP id NAA14144 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:46:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001d01bf0459$0fbb5940$eb973018@pbc.adelphia.net> From: "Erica Pence" To: References: <199909201649.KAA13177@net.indra.com> <37E790CE.DAE77AA3@execpc.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:OT Century/millennium Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:45:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF0437.87C65E20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Erica Pence" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF0437.87C65E20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <
<<In conclusion then, there is no one RIGHT = way to count=20 centuries.  I
understand your explanation, but it assumes that a = century=20 must be
started with the 'established' date for the birth of Christ,=20 and
according to the dictionary definitions, that is not the correct=20 meaning
of "century."
Sorry, to keep this off the subject thread going, but...
 
I wanted to point out that you looked up "century" in the = dictionary. =20 You are correct...a century is 100 years.  However, we are not = talking=20 about the definition of the word century in general, but of a specific=20 century.  Try looking up 20th century (or any other specific = century for=20 that matter).  You will find that the 20th century runs from 1901 = through=20 2000.  The 21st century begins on 2001.  A millennium, as you = know is=20 1000 years, but looking up the second millennium, you should find 1001 = through=20 2000.  The new millennium begins on 2001. 
 
See the Greenwich site:
http://millennium.greenwich= 2000.com/
 
IMHO, it is ludicrous to think that that you can count the = centuries or=20 millenniums either way and still be correct.  Can you imagine how = confusing=20 our history books would be, if some people counted a century one way and = others=20 another way?   In this particular case, there is a right way = and a=20 wrong way. 
 
I fully agree that all this 2000 hype is driving everyone crazy, = but if its=20 not one thing its another.  I agree with one poster that the hype = is a big=20 money ploy or an excuse for a big party.  I will be glad when its=20 over.
 
Erica Pence
Robes of Antiquity
www.robesofantiquity.com
= Online=20 store coming soon!
 
------=_NextPart_000_001A_01BF0437.87C65E20-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 12:33:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29119 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:33:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12107; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:51:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24414 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:47:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24396 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:47:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA11160.; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:52:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:46:02 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:45:38 +0100 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Re. Metallic thread Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id LAA24404 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" Having just waded through a week's worth of digests after a few days away, I'm a bit late for the thread on metallic embroidery, but here goes anyway... I remember reading somewhere that a pastime for ladies during the Napoleonic Wars was using a special device for shredding old epaulettes etc. from uniforms, in order to extract the gold for recycling. And we think recycling is a new idea! BTW, can I repeat the plea to those people who like to include the sender's message in their reply, to edit it down to the essential bits? Postings containing whole discussion threads don't half clutter up the digests! Thank you. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 12:40:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29164 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:40:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13168; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:59:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA26224 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:54:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26206 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:54:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.86] (sdts10-86.znet.net [207.167.66.86]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id KAA14334 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:54:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001601bf03cf$30ccb960$fb3d1d26@buck> References: <199909202347.QAA02669@scv1.apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:11:59 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Rolled pleats? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >> Drea, what are rolled pleats? > >Organ-pipe pleats are another name for what I believe she is referring to. I've never heard them called that. They aren't rolled when you make them. There is a pleat seen in some German Renn paintings that is like a cartridge pleat, but the back part is rolled under for each pleat, however. Juliana _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 12:40:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29168 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:40:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13171; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:59:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA26232 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:54:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26216 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:54:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.86] (sdts10-86.znet.net [207.167.66.86]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id KAA14344 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:54:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37E70346.EA33CFB7@thibault.org> References: <14f6537.251857a6@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 10:27:47 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Speaking of Houpelandes....to pleat or not to pleat Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: Cynthia Virtue > >Chas wrote: >> are due to the fact that when one cuts the shoulders, one cuts them like a >> smile or a half circle. > >Oooh, someone else that does this! I've done one like this too. Works well. Too keep the pleats where I want them, I put in some stay tapes inside to hold the pleats in place similar to organpipe pleating (which is used in this era too.) The pleats come out pretty good with little effort. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 12:58:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29197 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:58:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16153; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:16:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00589 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:12:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00579 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:12:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA17360 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:12:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA21006 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:12:38 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:12:38 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: Rolled pleats? In-Reply-To: <37E7BBA1.65A4@uvm.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed I did rolled pleats with a medium almost coat-weight wool, lined with a dense linen. Both were folded over to the inside at the top of the skirt. Needless to say, the finished pleats were pretty bulky. I whipstitched the pleats together, and then placed the right side of the skirt against the right side of a finished bodice and whipstitched them together with silk buttonhole twist thread. If you have thinner pleats, you might try to sandwich them between the bodice outer fabric & lining. I know the Shinrone gown, which had a pleated skirt attached to a bodice, had the bodice finished at the bottom before the skirt was attached. Does anyone know how the skirts were sewn to the bodices in Arnold's book? I looked through, but couldn't find any mention of specific attachment technique. My skirt was rectangular, and it worked very well. The tubular pleats went with the weave of the fabric. I don't know how well it would work with a gored skirt. Someone, on this list I believe, once mentioned coming across a tudor inventory which specified "stuffing for pleats" on a Tudor gown. I'd love to find them again and wangle out the details of this inventory. :) Anyway, a fine layer of batting between the outer fabric and lining of a skirt would certainly bulk up the pleats quite nicely. Glad to know the corset pattern generator worked for you. Let us know how your gown turns out--It sounds beautiful! Drea > I think I want to try this for the gown I'm working on (1530s > English--first time I'm making one--needs to be done in time for > coronation this Saturday--right!!). Anyway, once you flatten down the > pleats to you sew this "right sides together" to the bodice or butt it > onto a band (like cartridge pleating?) and sew the band to the bodice or > what? The fabric I'm working with is a fine dress-weight wool twill. The > pattern is roughly the Jane Seymour or Kateryn Parr (the one formerly > known as Jane Grey). Does it work well with rectangular panels? > > - Hope > > P.S. And Drea--put me down as another happy "corset-generator" > customer--it worked beautifully! > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 13:02:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29212 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:02:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16858; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:21:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01766 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:16:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA01755 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:16:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA17564 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:16:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA21405 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:17:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:17:19 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Rolled pleats? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed OK, I'm showing my ignorance here--what, exactly, are organ pipe pleats? I've been told they were pleats formed by circular gores that were ungathered at the waist edge and kept uniform at the bottom with stay tapes. I've heard that they are rolled pleats, and someone else has likened them to the pleats that Margo referred to in her recent post, that she was using on her Flemish gown. I've also heard that they didn't really exist, and were a modern interpretation of other kinds of pleating. Juliana just referred you yet another kind of pleat in German paintings, which I don't quite get. Explanations, anyone? Thanks, Drea the confused > > > >> Drea, what are rolled pleats? > > > >Organ-pipe pleats are another name for what I believe she is referring to. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 13:25:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29236 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:25:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20746; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:44:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07177 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:40:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07158 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:39:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Andrea (port076.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.76]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id UAA08753 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:39:55 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <37E539D1.8A9830BC@ndh.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:30:27 +0200 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Re: White X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D4560DB26BAA51B17D1BBD4D" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------D4560DB26BAA51B17D1BBD4D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > The things that make white appear very bright are OBAs(optical brightening > agents) they are a dye basically, you get all shades I used to colour match > them. They are certainly in many UK washing powders and on most whites and > yes glow under Ultra Violet light. > The brighteners are part of every modern detergent except for those intended for couloured clothing.The use of blueing got abolished after the invention of the brighteners because of the indigo`s disadvantage that it could dye the clothing blue if not carefully handled. I work in the detergent industry, that`s where my knowledge in this field comes from ;-). > >The reason old ladies have blue hair is that as they age, the color > receptors > in their brain see the blue hair as white, when in reality it's not. They > think they're dying their hair white. > I took this to be a joke ;-)...I know that there is a shampoo on the US market which is violet and can be used to whiten the coat of originally white horses who have been in the dirt for too long... That`s the same thing I believe. Many greetings, Diana --------------D4560DB26BAA51B17D1BBD4D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
The things that make white appear very bright are OBAs(optical brightening
agents) they are a dye basically, you get all shades I used to colour match
them. They are certainly in many UK washing powders and on most whites and
yes glow under Ultra Violet light.
The brighteners are part of every modern detergent except for those intended for couloured clothing.The use of  blueing got abolished after the invention of the brighteners because of the indigo`s disadvantage that it could dye the clothing blue if not carefully handled.
I work in the detergent industry, that`s where my knowledge in this field comes from ;-).
  
>The reason old ladies have blue hair is that as they age, the color
receptors
in their brain see the blue hair as white, when in reality it's not. They
think they're dying their hair white.
I took this to be a joke ;-)...I know that there is a shampoo on the US market which is violet and can be used to whiten the coat of originally white horses who have been in the dirt for too long...
That`s the same thing I believe.

Many greetings,
Diana
 

  --------------D4560DB26BAA51B17D1BBD4D-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 13:25:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29240 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:25:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20747; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:44:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07189 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:40:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07182 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:40:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Andrea (port076.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.76]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id UAA08773 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:40:01 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <37E53B6B.1777A750@ndh.net> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 21:37:16 +0200 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Re: German costuming books X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1896BAC08DC3069E03CC90D2" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------1896BAC08DC3069E03CC90D2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Does anyone on the list know of other German works on the subject of > renaissance costume? Or medieval costume, for that matter? I found a > listing for the book "Kleidung und Waffen der Frueh und Hochgotik > (1150-1320)" (Clothing and Weapons of the Early and Middle Gothic age) by > Ulrich Lehnert, and was wondering if anyone had read it or knew how > worthwhile a purchase it would be. > I can only recommend this book as I have done before on this list.There are some beautiful color plates in it that show the cut of medieval dress and the patterns of the fabric used in detail. So even if one doesn`t read German, the plates are nice to look at and seem to be well researched like the whole book. I`m also always here to help with translation of paragraphs of a German text, not the whole book at once ;-), but if there is text written under a picture or you are interested in the containt of a certain chapter, feel free to ask. I have the book by Lehnart myself and am German, so this should be no problem for me ;-). Many greetings, Diana --------------1896BAC08DC3069E03CC90D2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 

Does anyone on the list know of other German works on the subject of
renaissance costume?  Or medieval costume, for that matter?  I found a
listing for the book "Kleidung und Waffen der Frueh und Hochgotik
(1150-1320)" (Clothing and Weapons of the Early and Middle Gothic age) by
Ulrich Lehnert, and was wondering if anyone had read it or knew how
worthwhile a purchase it would be.
I can only recommend this book as I have done before on this list.There are some beautiful color plates in it that show the cut of medieval dress and the
patterns of the fabric used in detail.
So even if one doesn`t read German, the plates are nice to look at and seem to be well researched like the whole book.

I`m also always here to help with translation of paragraphs of a German text, not the whole book at once ;-), but if there is text written under a picture or you are interested in the containt of a certain chapter, feel free to ask.
I have the book by Lehnart myself and am German, so this should be no problem for me ;-).

Many greetings,
Diana
  --------------1896BAC08DC3069E03CC90D2-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 13:27:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29244 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:27:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21013; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:45:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA07555 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:41:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07542 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:41:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-23.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FIF00H7WAJTTB@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:40:44 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:40:45 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: Eureka!/Re: Questions?/Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <37E7D12D.73CAAC82@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199909210924.DAA22339@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marc Carlson <"L.L. Johnson" > > Hullo Marc > > I have two words. Thank you (repeated many, many times). You have a > wonderful site. This is going to be a big help. :-) You are entirely welcome. >Also, you know Kass McGann. I read her article on the Shinrone gown in >Tournaments Illuminated (SCA publication) and I have been trying to >find her ever since. She's very nice and helpful. >The historic clothing reconstruction that you, Ms. McGann, and other >folks on this list, are doing is something that I have wanted to do >since I was a kid. It's a lot of fun, and easier than you might suspect. >I was wondering what kind of a degree/education is needed to pursue a >career in this. I have an AA in cultural anthropology, an AS in library >and information sciences, a BA in cultural anthropology (both anthro >degrees have an emphasis in archaeology), and, after a twenty-year >hiatus from school, one year's worth of study towards an MFA in >costume design. Don't ask me. I'm what they call an "amateur", since with my Anthro and History degrees, I'm a librarian. How's the song go? "I knew this cat named Darrell, he didn't have a dollar, He was Harvard material, Ivy League scholar Had a Ph.D., had an M.B.A. But now he's waiting tables cause there's rent to pay..." (Everlast - "The Ends") I just do what I can, and keep making connections, and sharing what I can. For example, I'm scheduled to go to London in November to study the shoes found in the Tudor dig this past spring (since my focus is more on shoes than it is on clothes), but that's not making me any money. You might try looking at the major websites, such as www.archaeology.org and www.britarch.ac.uk and seeing if there are any links to universities doing textiles and conservation. I'm afraid, though, that I'm not the best person that ask about a succeessful career in the field :) Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 13:35:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29250 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:35:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22147; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:54:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09325 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:49:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09298 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:49:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23106 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:49:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp228-234.worldonline.nl [195.241.228.234]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA27713 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:49:45 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909211849.UAA27713@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: German costuming books Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:39:49 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi all, Drea wrote: > Does anyone on the list know of other German works on the subject of > renaissance costume? Or medieval costume, for that matter? I found a > listing for the book "Kleidung und Waffen der Frueh und Hochgotik > (1150-1320)" (Clothing and Weapons of the Early and Middle Gothic age) by > Ulrich Lehnert, and was wondering if anyone had read it or knew how > worthwhile a purchase it would be. I have this one. It's pretty good and breaks a lot of new ground, but it's mostly nobility, knights and fighting men again and only a very little bit on the common people. There are some nice patterns, but there are also some I disagree with. Lehnart uses illustrations by Viollet-le-Duc, which should be handled with care, and some others (Chartres, Manesse, Hottenroth), to my eye, are too much interpretations instead of trustable copies of the originals. I think I read somewhere that the publisher, Karfunkel, is planning other periods too. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 13:36:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29254 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:36:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22150; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:54:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA09337 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:49:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09299 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:49:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA23087 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:49:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp228-234.worldonline.nl [195.241.228.234]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA27696 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:49:43 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909211849.UAA27696@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Bastard Sword [was Re: Men's Costuming] Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:23:14 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, > Chas wrote: > > I don't know why they refered to the slightly shorter houppelande as a > > "bastard" houppelande, but then again why was a sword that was slightly > > shorter than a great sword called a "bastard" sword? Im not up on etymology > > of the English language, but it would be fascinating to know why "bastard" > > was applied. > Dietmar wrote: > Normal short swords were used with one hand. 'Great swords' were larger and > heavier, and thus designed to be used with two hands (usually to break the > heads of of pikes and spears). A 'bastard' sword (often called a 'hand and a > half') was somewhere between the two; light enough to be swung with one hand, > but with a hilt long enough to accommodate two hands if needed. I would like to add: during the middle ages there are short swords (like the Roman gladius, but called the Basilard ca 60-70 cm, f.i.), there are arming swords ca 70-80 cm (mostly worn together with the hand and a half swords in the late 14th and 15th c), which are a bit longer than the former, the common swords, ca 85-100 cm, hand and a half swords or bastard swords ca, 110-130 cm, and the twohander, ca 140-160 cm. Great sword is not a correct term for this type of weapon, as the words 'great sword' are more used for swords of state, those with ceremonial or even mystic connections. > > P.S.: Swords were not the heavy behemoths people envision and Hollywood > perpetuates. On the average they weighed one lb./ft., so a short sword would > weigh about 3 lbs. They were light so that you could swing them without > becoming tired. A normal sword is about 1-1,5 kg (ca 2,5-3 lbs) but perfectly balanced and very easy to wield. Oh, a pet peeve of mine: they don't get pulled out of a scabbard with the sound of steel on steel; the insides of scabbards are of oiled leather, glued linen or oiled wood and don't emit any noise when a sword is drawn. Watch for this 'clichee' in any Hollywood movie and you'll not be disappointed. We always cry out: "zzzzing, another one..." and LOL. Metal scabbards came into being during the 18th c for cavalry sabres, but I guess they were lined with something or other (not my period!!!). > People didn't duel on foot with great swords. Nor did they > fence with them. They did. The art of fencing with two handed swords is very elaborate and very risky. They acquire a special technique and some strenght as these things can weigh up to 5 kg or 11 lbs, although most are about 2-3 kg. They are also well balanced. Hans Talhoffer made a lavishly illustrated book on finghting with all kinds of weapons, a.o. two handers, in 1469. But mostly they were used in the armies of the early 16th c by the colourful 'landsknechten', who indeed used them to cut down pikes and men. Two handers with blunted points were used by executioners and have been kept in several European town museums. > Stabbing was generally not effective with these slashing weapons. Swords have always had points. Some types had even especially sharp points and were used for stabbing as well as slashing. There are lots of techniques in sword fighting where you use the point instead of the side of the blade. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 13:39:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29263 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:39:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22592; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:57:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10095 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:53:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10084 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:53:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.117] (ell166.acadia.net [205.217.218.221]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA21029 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:02:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:51:44 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: costume books Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> It's confusing, because she published the earliest period last. The books are as follows: [Patterns of Fashion 1] (cut and construction of women's clothing, 1660-1860) --Wace 1964, Macmillan 1972. Revised metric edition 1977. (black cover) [Patterns of Fashion 2] (cut and construction of women's clothing, 1860-1940) --Wace 1966, Macmillan 1972. (sage green cover) [Patterns of Fashion: the cut and construction of clothes for men and women 1560-1620] -- Macmillan 1985. Revised edition 1986. (burgundy cover) NB: in the latest reprinting of #3, someone at Macmillan decided for no apparent reason to change the cover to black, just to further confuse things. It annoyed Janet no end, since it was always easier to refer to them by color. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 13:43:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29278 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:43:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23415; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:02:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11144 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:57:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11120 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:57:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p14.directcon.net [206.170.184.63]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA14624 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:58:16 -0700 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:58:16 -0700 Message-Id: <199909211858.LAA14624@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: Eureka!/Re: Questions?/Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson . How's the song go? > >"I knew this cat named Darrell, he didn't have a dollar, >He was Harvard material, Ivy League scholar >Had a Ph.D., had an M.B.A. >But now he's waiting tables cause there's rent to pay..." >(Everlast - "The Ends") > What do you call a woman with a master's in Theater Arts? "Oh, Waitress!" Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 13:49:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29290 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:49:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24003; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:07:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12413 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:03:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m3.jersey.juno.com (m3.jersey.juno.com [209.67.33.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12388 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:03:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from henninlady@juno.com) by m3.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EL3GPXMM; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:59:31 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:38:10 -0400 Subject: Re: H-COST: Speaking of Houpelandes.... Message-ID: <19990921.150131.4270.0.henninlady@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-8,10-12 From: Elizabeth Cummins Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Cummins > I've made a couple from the Past Patterns version, and I was wondering if > anybody has come up with a clever way of belting these so that you get > those wonderful even folds that you see in all the art of the time??? > > Or do I just need to get my handmaiden to arrange my gown for me ever 20 > minutes? I bast the folds to twill tape on the inside. A couple of rows of twill tape will hold the folds nicely. Elizabeth Cummins ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 13:52:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA29307 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:52:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24323; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:10:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12714 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:04:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA12678 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:04:41 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990921191511.6697.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:15:11 PDT Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:15:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Bastard Sword [was Re: Men's Costuming] To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sarah Toney > very easy to wield. Oh, a pet peeve of mine: they > don't get pulled out of a > scabbard with the sound of steel on steel; the > insides of scabbards are of > oiled leather, glued linen or oiled wood and don't > emit any noise when a > sword is drawn. Watch for this 'clichee' in any > Hollywood movie and you'll > not be disappointed. We always cry out: "zzzzing, > another one..." and LOL. If you REALLY want to ruin your movie watching experience, try to see a show put on by the "Crossed Swords"... they are a husband and wife team that travel the country coreographing (sp?) film and stage fights and giving very funny lectures on what is wrong with today's Hollywood fights... it is so funny, I was rolling on the floor laughing... they usually can be found at any gaming convention and at some ren faires. Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 14:00:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29325 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:00:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25142; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:18:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14968 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:14:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web801.mail.yahoo.com (web801.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA14951 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:14:26 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990921192444.28929.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web801.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:24:44 PDT Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:24:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: Eureka!/Re: Questions?/Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sarah Toney When I was in school for English, I received no less than 20 pins from my dear friends that said "I majored in liberal arts... would you like fries with that?" Isn't it great that people love us? ;-) Sarah > What do you call a woman with a master's in Theater > Arts? > > "Oh, Waitress!" > > > Margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 14:15:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29338 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:15:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26997; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:33:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18120 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:28:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18102 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:28:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA21458 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:28:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA28263 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:28:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:28:45 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: German costuming books In-Reply-To: <37E53B6B.1777A750@ndh.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed Andrea, I read German, and am always on the lookout for obscure (or foreign) costuming texts. I would be forever in your debt if you could give me a listing of the medieval/renaissance German costuming books or articles you have, particularly anything relating to the 1400s & 1500s. So far all I have is a couple of articles from Waffen- und Kostumkunde, and Ein Buch von Alten Farben by Ploss. Thanks for the tip on Lehnert; I'll have to get that one. (I fear I blew my monthly book budget on Textiler Hausrat :) . Yours, Drea On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Andrea Clef wrote: > > Does anyone on the list know of other German works on the subject of > > renaissance costume? Or medieval costume, for that matter? I found a > > listing for the book "Kleidung und Waffen der Frueh und Hochgotik > > (1150-1320)" (Clothing and Weapons of the Early and Middle Gothic age) by > > Ulrich Lehnert, and was wondering if anyone had read it or knew how > > worthwhile a purchase it would be. > > > I can only recommend this book as I have done before on this list.There > are some beautiful color plates in it that show the cut of medieval > dress and the > patterns of the fabric used in detail. > So even if one doesn`t read German, the plates are nice to look at and > seem to be well researched like the whole book. > > I`m also always here to help with translation of paragraphs of a German > text, not the whole book at once ;-), but if there is text written under > a picture or you are interested in the containt of a certain chapter, > feel free to ask. > I have the book by Lehnart myself and am German, so this should be no > problem for me ;-). > > Many greetings, > Diana > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 14:17:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29345 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:17:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27479; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:36:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18877 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:31:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18863 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:31:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA21620 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA28588 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:32:12 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:32:12 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: OOPS! German costuming books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed Oops--that was meant to be a private post. Sorry, list. Drea > > > Andrea, > > I read German, and am always on the lookout for obscure (or foreign) > costuming texts. > > I would be forever in your debt if you could give me a listing of the > medieval/renaissance German costuming books or articles you have, > particularly anything relating to the 1400s & 1500s. So far all I have is > a couple of articles from Waffen- und Kostumkunde, and Ein Buch von Alten > Farben by Ploss. > > Thanks for the tip on Lehnert; I'll have to get that one. (I fear I blew > my monthly book budget on Textiler Hausrat :) . > > Yours, > > Drea > On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Andrea Clef wrote: > > > > Does anyone on the list know of other German works on the subject of > > > renaissance costume? Or medieval costume, for that matter? I found a > > > listing for the book "Kleidung und Waffen der Frueh und Hochgotik > > > (1150-1320)" (Clothing and Weapons of the Early and Middle Gothic age) by > > > Ulrich Lehnert, and was wondering if anyone had read it or knew how > > > worthwhile a purchase it would be. > > > > > I can only recommend this book as I have done before on this list.There > > are some beautiful color plates in it that show the cut of medieval > > dress and the > > patterns of the fabric used in detail. > > So even if one doesn`t read German, the plates are nice to look at and > > seem to be well researched like the whole book. > > > > I`m also always here to help with translation of paragraphs of a German > > text, not the whole book at once ;-), but if there is text written under > > a picture or you are interested in the containt of a certain chapter, > > feel free to ask. > > I have the book by Lehnart myself and am German, so this should be no > > problem for me ;-). > > > > Many greetings, > > Diana > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 14:35:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29380 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:35:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00178; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:54:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA23300 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:49:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23281 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:49:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA23598 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:49:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:49:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: Eureka!/Re: Questions?/Re: H-COST: Greenland gowns In-Reply-To: <19990921192444.28929.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley I had one when I was in college that said 'Future Bag Lady.' (Double majored in History and Religion -- graduated magna cum laude. Am I doing anything with either major? Nothing that earns any money, of course!) Cheers, Mara On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Sarah Toney wrote: > > -Poster: Sarah Toney > > When I was in school for English, I received no less > than 20 pins from my dear friends that said "I majored > in liberal arts... would you like fries with that?" > Isn't it great that people love us? ;-) > > Sarah > > > > What do you call a woman with a master's in Theater > > Arts? > > > > "Oh, Waitress!" > > > > > > Margo > > > > "One Tough Costumer" > > http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > > majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 14:39:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29392 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:39:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00854; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24289 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:53:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.vci.net (smtp.vci.net [207.162.160.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24279 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:53:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vci.net (ppp-169-74.vci.net [207.162.169.74]) by smtp.vci.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA09162 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:53:46 -0500 Message-ID: <37E7E2F4.5567BF4B@vci.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:56:36 -0500 From: "schuck@vci.net" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr-FR,de,ru,es-AR,sv MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: rolled pleats? References: <199909211742.LAA22894@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "schuck@vci.net" I don't remember where, but I once saw a tool (modern-made) that is used for making pleats like this. It looked something like a large, three-pronged fork. You were supposed to use it by putting the two outside prongs on one side of the fabric and the center prong on the other side. Then you would just twist the fork a few times and voila--- pleats! Has anyone else seen a tool like this? It looked very useful. I wish I could remember where I saw it! jb <<<<>> _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 14:55:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29426 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:55:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02987; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:13:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA27906 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:09:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web804.mail.yahoo.com (web804.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.64]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA27891 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:09:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990921201941.21895.rocketmail@web804.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web804.mail.yahoo.com; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:19:41 PDT Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 13:19:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: rolled pleats? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sarah Toney Why not just go get a large serving fork? That is what this sounds like. ;-) I think for me this would be more work than anything, but if it works for some, more power to you... I tend to cut a piece of cardboard the width of the pleat I want and just wrapping the material around the cardboard. This ensures that they are relatively even... I also often do them freehand, but I have had a lot of practise, so it may be harder than I think... sarah > > I don't remember where, but I once saw a tool > (modern-made) that is used for making pleats like > this. It looked something like a large, > three-pronged fork. You were supposed to use it by > putting the two outside prongs on one side of the > fabric and the center prong on the other side. Then > you would just twist the fork a few times and > voila--- pleats! Has anyone else seen a tool like > this? It looked very useful. I wish I could remember > where I saw it! > > jb > > <<<< found out) are basically a > series of fabric rolls. You pinch a piece of fabric > up, roll it two or > three times, and flatten it down.>>> > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 15:45:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29490 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:45:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10935; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:03:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA11183 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:59:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA11162 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:59:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 23716 invoked by alias); 21 Sep 1999 20:59:19 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 23710 invoked by uid 0); 21 Sep 1999 20:59:18 -0000 Received: from bdsl99.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.99) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 21 Sep 1999 20:59:18 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990921155716.00975a50@rrnet.com> X-Sender: baird@rrnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:59:18 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: rolled pleats? In-Reply-To: <37E7E2F4.5567BF4B@vci.net> References: <199909211742.LAA22894@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" This is in Nancy's Notions catalog. She calls it a Fabric Tucker Set. It will do 1/4" or 1/2" tucks. http://www.nancysnotions.com Kim At 02:56 PM 09/21/1999 -0500, you wrote: >-Poster: "schuck@vci.net" > >I don't remember where, but I once saw a tool (modern-made) that is used >for making pleats like this. It looked something like a large, >three-pronged fork. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 15:51:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29504 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:51:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11785; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:10:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12885 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:05:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12877 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:05:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.117] (ell28.acadia.net [205.217.218.12]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA12879 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:14:45 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:04:13 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: metallic thread Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> It was called drizzling or parfilage, and began towards the end of the 18c, and consisted of unpicking and unravelling *any* metallic threads from old clothing. Beads and gems were also unpicked to be reused again. <> I'll second that (again) -- the same posts are repeated again and again. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 16:21:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29587 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:21:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16254; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:39:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA20865 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:34:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20849 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:34:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem43.fred.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.171] helo=herimats) by mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11TXYq-000028-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:34:53 +0100 Message-ID: <00cb01bf0479$29115960$5f075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: costume books Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:31:19 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "LDMundy" Thanks Deborah Dont think me finicky about picking on details,but as I am trying to collect a copy of each reprint-I cant resist the oppurtunity of grilling you further. Which reprint is in black? My 1995 Patterns of Fashion (3) is a very dark Burgundy compared to the earlier ones; and there is a definite lack of texture to the cover. Is this correct or have I just got faded copies? Dave > NB: in the latest reprinting of #3, someone at Macmillan decided for no > apparent reason to change the cover to black, just to further confuse > things. It annoyed Janet no end, since it was always easier to refer to > them by color. > Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 16:39:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29643 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:39:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18502; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:58:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25490 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:54:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25462 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 15:54:11 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6SDN06H9sz (4333) for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:53:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:53:34 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Med Misc & other things To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 22 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I know the person who originally did the Medieval Miscellanea patterns. She's been an SCA member for more than 26 years and a Laurel (in costuming) for maybe 15. Her own costumes (and those that she did for her husband) were and still are very good. I think she drafted the patterns and some one else wrote the instructions. That being said, I do not like the MM patterns. I never use MM patterns because I draft my own for the most part. I used one (the Tudor lady's gown) for a friend maybe 10 years ago and found it to be pretty useless. The sizing was ... interesting and the instructions were obscure. I could not understand them. At that time, I had been doing historical costuming for some 15 or more years and had a bunch of SCA awards (including a Laurel) for it. The clothing is reasonably well researched. Keep in mind that the patterns were designed specifically for SCA use. That being the case, they are not particularly well designed, but are supposed to provide the proper "look" without being deadly authentic. Hope this helps. Kathleen Norvell aka Alyson of Islay in the SCA _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 17:15:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29767 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:15:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22922; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:33:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA04020 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:27:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03997 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:27:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id HAA05520 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:57:04 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA09843; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:04:37 +0930 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:04:29 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: German costuming books In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, aleed wrote: > Does anyone on the list know of other German works on the subject of > renaissance costume? Or medieval costume, for that matter? I found a > listing for the book "Kleidung und Waffen der Frueh und Hochgotik > (1150-1320)" (Clothing and Weapons of the Early and Middle Gothic age) by > Ulrich Lehnert, and was wondering if anyone had read it or knew how > worthwhile a purchase it would be. > There is a series of books in the library here called 'Die Mode' I think. The first one is on the middle ages and then one for each century afterwards. My German is pretty minimal so I don't read the text but they have lots of pictures, mainly of course German ones, but a reasonable no. from elsewhere which is what I look at it for. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 17:15:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29771 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:15:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22993; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:33:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA04597 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:29:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04578 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:29:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id HAA05517 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:59:38 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA09850; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:07:11 +0930 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:07:04 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: White In-Reply-To: <19990921163721.PSE4476.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, R.L. Shep wrote: > I can remember my mother going through the same thing and she would wear > really BRIGHT clothing with lots of beads and jewelry and bright red nails > and lipstick. I don't remember her doing that when I was younger. > Older women's attitude towards their hair is somewhat the same. They do not > see it as *blue* but as *bright*. So what happens if you wear really bright red lipstick when you're younger? *grin* ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 17:20:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29786 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:20:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23818; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:38:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA05706 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:34:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05676 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:34:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA05547 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:04:06 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA09856; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:11:40 +0930 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:11:33 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Rolled pleats? In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, aleed wrote: > > Someone, on this list I believe, once mentioned coming across a tudor > inventory which specified "stuffing for pleats" on a Tudor gown. I'd love > to find them again and wangle out the details of this inventory. :) > Anyway, a fine layer of batting between the outer fabric and lining of a > skirt would certainly bulk up the pleats quite nicely. > I think that was me. The inventory in question is quoted in Cunnington's "Handbook of 16th Century Costume" or whatever it's called. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 17:53:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29836 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:53:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28405; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:11:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13800 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:06:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13791 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:06:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (d-ma-superpop-1-77.ici.net [207.180.41.77]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA29906 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:06:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909212306.TAA29906@bajor.ici.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:06:22 -0400 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id RAA13794 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Irene leNoir Elysant de Holtham wrote: >I have a princess line pattern, and if that would >be more accurate, how would I adapt that to be as authentic >as I could be for what I want? The earliest documentable occurance of princess line cutting that I know of is from a painting of the Virgin and Child by Jean Fouquet from about 1430-1450. http://cgfa.kelloggcreek.com/fouquet/p-fouquet3.htm Without going out on too much of a limb, you could probably justify using a princess line cut for a dress as early as around 1420 or so. For earlier gowns, while princess line cuts may have been used, there is no evidence. General consensus seems to be that these dresses were usually cut along the lines of the Greenland gown. However, I've recently heard a good argument for a 4-piece cut with inset gores for this style of gown. If you do decide to go with the princess line version, there is probably very little that you will need to do to alter your pattern. Just make sure the skirt is full and long, and that the neckline is rounded. If you decide that you want decorative sleeves, then that could also require alterations, but you can use just plain long fitted sleeves. >Is what we're aiming for a cotehardie? That is the term usually used to refer to this style of tightly fitted gown. >What is a greenland gown? This term refers to any of a collection of garments found in a dig in Herjolfsnes, Greenland. The one that most people use is also often referred to as the 10-gore dress. It has a center front and center back pieces that cover most of the torso, gores inserted into the center of these to about waist height, and then 4 gores under each arm that are very narrow at the top and flare out towards the hem. There has been a lot of discussion of it on the list lately. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to post a web reference? >What fabrics would I use? In period, they would have used linen, wool, silk, or blends in solid colors or brocades. Modernly, it is hard to find brocades (or even prints) that have the right look for this period, so solid colors are probably your best bet. If you go for bold jewel toned colors you will get a nice dramatic effect. >what would make a cheerleader dress so suitable? That was a reference to the fact that some cheerleader dresses are nice simple princess line dresses, easy to alter into a later-period cotehardie pattern. Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 17:56:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29843 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:56:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28997; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:14:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14670 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:10:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14657 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:10:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.200] ([209.207.57.234]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA26085 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:10:13 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:09:28 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: H-COST: German costuming books Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Melanie Schuessler >-Poster: The Purple Elephant >There is a series of books in the library here called 'Die Mode' I think. >The first one is on the middle ages and then one for each century afterwards. >My German is pretty minimal so I don't read the text but they have lots of >pictures, mainly of course German ones, but a reasonable no. from elsewhere >which is what I look at it for. If these are the ones I am thinking of (sorry can't find the reference), I have read a translation of one of them--be very suspicious of the text! It reads like the National Enquirer and seemed very suspect as a source for history (good for centuries-old gossip, though!). Melanie Schuessler _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 18:07:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29867 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:07:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00602; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17048 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:21:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17042 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:21:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id QAA14623; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:22:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E81380.F30B2E74@serv.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:23:45 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress References: <199909212306.TAA29906@bajor.ici.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > The earliest documentable occurance of princess line cutting that I know > of is from a painting of the Virgin and Child by Jean Fouquet from about > 1430-1450. > > For earlier gowns, while princess line cuts may have been used, there is > no evidence. General consensus seems to be that these dresses were > usually cut along the lines of the Greenland gown. > > However, I've recently heard a good argument for a 4-piece cut with inset > gores for this style of gown. I am in agreement with Irene here. I, too, use the 4 piece cut with inset gores. I would love to hear your argument for this Irene! > In period, they would have used linen, wool, silk, or blends in solid > colors or brocades. Modernly, it is hard to find brocades (or even > prints) that have the right look for this period, so solid colors are > probably your best bet. If you go for bold jewel toned colors you will > get a nice dramatic effect. Velvets would work well too. And mix colors like blue and red, or red and green. Stuff we wouldn't normally do. Or different shades of the same color. Assuming you have a surcote as well as a cotehardie, and maybe even a mantle. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 18:14:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29877 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:14:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01341; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:32:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA18323 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:28:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from post1.inre.asu.edu (post1.inre.asu.edu [129.219.13.100]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18316 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:28:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from smtp.asu.edu (smtp.asu.edu [129.219.13.92]) by asu.edu (PMDF V5.2-31 #31135) with ESMTP id <0FIF00HCWNSQLH@asu.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:26:51 -0700 (MST) Received: from asu.edu (azhist-3.lib.asu.edu [129.219.248.72]) by smtp.asu.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16218 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:28:29 -0700 (MST) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:20:38 -0700 From: "The Adjutant's Office" Subject: H-COST: Mid 19th Century Little Boy Clothes To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <37E812C6.108702@asu.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "The Adjutant's Office" Can anyone recommend a pattern for a Civil War era-ish outfit for a little boy? I realize that a three year old boy would probably be still be in skirts, but I don't know that I'll be able to get him to put another dress on, so I'm looking for something along the lines of a sailor suit. My sewing ability is moderate and I can't draft my own patterns, so I am hoping someone out there has done the work for me! Any suggestions, on-or-off list, will be very gratefully received! Thanks so much! Cynthia adjutant@asu.edu _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 18:33:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29929 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:33:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03760; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:51:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA21547 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:46:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA21531 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:46:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:46:43 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37E6D903.B25EF4F5@pacbell.net> References: <16d52c90.25181e70@aol.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 16:47:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: How white was white Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: Dietmar > >Greetings, > >Charlene B. wrote: > >> Liquid bluing is still available (thing "blue-haired ladies" who use bluing >> to take the dingy yellow cast out of white hair. > >Actually, bluing agents are most commonly found in dry laundry detergent. They >are used to fake the eye into thinking that fabric is whiter than it really is >(with the added benefit of making them florescent under black light). > >The reason old ladies have blue hair is that as they age, the color receptors >in their brain see the blue hair as white, when in reality it's not. They >think they're dying their hair white. > >Dietmar > I'm not sure where the info about color receptors came from, and I'm not argueing it. However, I remember that my grandmother used to use a bluing on her hair. She had been on heart medication from her mid-twenties and her hair had a nasty yellow to it. She hated it because it screamed to her 'medication!' So she used a bluish rinse on it and made it the MOST beautiful white - no blue in it at all, just Santa Claus white hair. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 19:09:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30112 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:09:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07414; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:25:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27037 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:20:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27029 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:20:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wanda (ke-ppp11.hevanet.com [198.5.254.161]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA17430 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:20:49 -0700 (PDT) From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: H-COST: Lurker's query reference slipper lamps Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:09:32 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 In-Reply-To: Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wanda Pease" You might try this URL: http://home.inreach.com/ivanyc/index.html Ivan makes several types of ancient lamps, one of which is probably what you are looking for. They run $15.00 plus $3.00 for shipping. Alternatively you might try the Sadigh Gallery, 303 Fifth Avenue, Suite 1603, NY, NY 10016. URL: http://www.ipgroup.com/sadigh/artifact.htm. They sell the real thing along with a certificate of authenticity FOR $39 to $49. These little lamps turn up in the hundreds of thousands in the Near East, and no museum really needs another, but they do need the money they can bring so they can go on with more important conservation or digs. Regina Romsey Question 2: Where might one find a modern reproduction of an ancient clay oil lamp? I've seen pictures, but do not have a clue who made them. They look a little like what one might expect Aladdin's lamp to look like, they use oil or fat for fuel, and have a wick. I think they were made in Greece, originally. And no, I'm not explaining what I need these for yet. Let me find out if the idea works, first! ;) Kate _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 19:28:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA30357 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:28:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09797; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:45:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA00152 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:41:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailnfs0.tiac.net (mailnfs0.tiac.net [199.0.65.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00144 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:41:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kdp.tiac.net (kdp.tiac.net [206.119.75.41]) by mailnfs0.tiac.net (8.8.8/8.8) with SMTP id UAA31597 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:41:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.6.16.19990920211226.3817cc4c@tiac.net> X-Sender: kdp@tiac.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (16) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 1999 21:12:26 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kristin Page Subject: Re: H-COST: flying shuttle In-Reply-To: <199909192028.QAA10405@hurontario.net> References: <199909191926.NAA09441@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kristin Page >what happened in between the Bronze Age and 1733. > Lots. Looms went from being upright like warp-weighted loom and some circular looms -- some of those warps were apparently woven by several people at the same time (evidence of shedding errors -- to horizontal. On a horizontal loom, maximum fabric width width was limited by distance a weaver could throw the shuttle (broadcloth seems to have been made by a three man team, one to throw the shuttle, one to catch it, and the third to change the shed and beat the fabric). From the 11th century until the invention of the fly shuttle and jaquard looms there were no major changes in weaving technology. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 20:38:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA30449 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:38:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19835; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:56:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA09949 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:50:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09944 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:50:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k419.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.19]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id SAA32676 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:50:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E83510.39E2@netwiz.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:46:56 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: White References: <19990921163721.PSE4476.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi R.L. Shep wrote: > > -Poster: "R.L. Shep" > > When I worked for Max Factor in their Foreign Dept - one of my many past > lives - we used to get lectures by the make-up artists and they claimed that > the reason why Older women often wear so much gaudy make-up is that they get > tired of seeing their face in the mirror - day after day, year after year - > and the feel they want a *lift* so they put on redder lipstick or blacker > liner or lots of rouge. Maybe it's 'cause they can't really *see* their faces anymore! I don't wear as much make-up as I used to, because without my glasses, I think I look just fine! :-> Like theatrical makeup which has to be very exaggerated to be visisble at distance, maybe if you can't see your face very clearly, you add more "emphasis"?? I can't figure out how to put on eye make-up anymore. Obviously I can't wear glasses, but if I don't I can't really see what I'm doing. And it's going to be downhill from here! with tongue in cheek, Susan F. -- susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 21:16:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30527 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:16:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22816; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:19:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA13463 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:13:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA13456 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:13:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990922021308.VLNH13005.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:13:08 -0700 Message-ID: <37E83B1D.95306010@home.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:12:45 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress References: <199909212306.TAA29906@bajor.ici.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kat & Kent I know that I was told at one point by Mistress Nerak that the seam on the princess line go into the armhole to turn a princess line into a period cotehardie. If you can find a princess line pattern that has the seam over the bust going into the armhole then you can use it as is. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 21:20:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30571 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:20:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25050; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:35:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA15392 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:27:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15384 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:27:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k419.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.19]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id TAA06340 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E83DC1.3E72@netwiz.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:24:01 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:OT Century/millennium References: <199909201649.KAA13177@net.indra.com> <37E790CE.DAE77AA3@execpc.com> <001d01bf0459$0fbb5940$eb973018@pbc.adelphia.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi You know guys, the Chinese and Jewish calendars have managed to make it thru' several millennia without mishap. Maybe we could drop it now. Susan F. -- susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 21:21:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30575 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:21:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23501; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:24:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14270 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:18:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14260 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:18:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.93] (sdts11-93.znet.net [207.167.66.93]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id TAA08390 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:18:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37E7A552.692309A4@us.oracle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:32:10 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Textiler Hausrat questions Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >Julie and Melanie and anyone else who has seen the book "Textiler >Hausrat": How good is it? I can muddle my way through some German, but >not enough to read too much. Therefore, I would be buying it for the >pictures only. I would say there are better pictures in some art books, but not so many showing the clear evolution of German fashions of that time. I struggle through the text for the most part because like in Elizabeth's Wardrobe Unlock'd, it has inventories and order sheets for tailors and such. It has a really good section on house textiles and one can see the very different weaves of cloth used for various house textiles, such as pillow cases and table cloths. I think that there are some really good costume pictures in that section too, though I have most of them from other books, scattered through cookbooks, art books and costuming books, but its nice to have them in one place. Its also nice to have the German names for particular garments and accessories. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 21:21:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30580 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:21:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23590; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:24:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14265 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:18:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14246 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:18:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.93] (sdts11-93.znet.net [207.167.66.93]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id TAA08385 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:18:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:37:06 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Rolled pleats? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: aleed > > >OK, I'm showing my ignorance here--what, exactly, are organ pipe pleats? >I've been told they were pleats formed by circular gores that were >ungathered at the waist edge and kept uniform at the bottom with stay >tapes. I've heard that they are rolled pleats, and someone else has >likened them to the pleats that Margo referred to in her recent post, that >she was using on her Flemish gown. I've also heard that they didn't >really exist, and were a modern interpretation of other kinds of pleating. >Juliana just referred you yet another kind of pleat in German paintings, >which I don't quite get. > >Explanations, anyone? Rolled or stacked pleats are what you showed in your diagram. I've seen these in German outfits, particularly in some cloak collars in Lucas Cranach paintings, where the curl of the pleat actually stays out to the edge of about an 8" collar. Organ pipe pleats are done on a garment cut as gores or in the round. Each pleat is pinched and sewn on the inside vertically from waist to hem in the most precise garments and at least 6-8" from the waist in the women's gowns. Each pleat is held in place by stay tapes tacked to the inside of the garment. Each organ pipe pleat is a set size. The skirt is sewn to the ribbon or band in similar to cartridge pleating, but each pleat is wider and has a slight curve and there is no depth to it. The skirt is almost flat when attached to the band, except for each pinch between pleats, so it falls without a ledge to the top of the skirt into a more conical form. Cartridge pleats are gathered with one or more threads usually about 3/4" more or less in stitches into a fairly thick edge (depending on the depth of the pleat), and usually the top edge is sewn to the band or ribbon (but the bottom edge can be as well). Usually this creates a shelf coming out from the waist as the skirt edge is perpendicular to the bodice and it is thick. It creates more of a wide topped "bell" sillouette. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 21:39:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30649 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:39:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27279; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:58:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA19062 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:53:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.vci.net (smtp.vci.net [207.162.160.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA19056 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:53:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vci.net (ppp-169-13.vci.net [207.162.169.13] (may be forged)) by smtp.vci.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA02406 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:18:07 -0500 Message-ID: <37E83D0A.D56761D2@vci.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:20:58 -0500 From: "schuck@vci.net" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr-FR,de,ru,es-AR,sv MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re: rolled pleats? References: <199909212227.QAA04058@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "schuck@vci.net" I looked up the tucker gadget. It is something like what I saw (I think, it's hard to see much in their picture), but the tucker I saw seemed capable of making bigger pleats than 1/4 and 1/2 inch. <<>> <<>> Yes! That was rather what it looked like, but it had straight edges, rather than slightly curved ones, and it wasn't sharp. It also seemed to be more flexible. I'll bet I could make something like it if I found the right materials. It was pretty simple. jb _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 21:46:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30669 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:46:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28350; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:05:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20167 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:01:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20148 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:00:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (d-ma-superpop-1-77.ici.net [207.180.41.77]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id XAA09992 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:00:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909220300.XAA09992@bajor.ici.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:00:57 -0400 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id VAA20152 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Irene leNoir Kat wrote: >I know that I was told at one point by Mistress Nerak that the seam on >the princess line go into the armhole to turn a princess line into a >period cotehardie. If you can find a princess line pattern that has the >seam over the bust going into the armhole then you can use it as is. That depends on what you mean by "into the armhole". The seamline in the portrait by Fouquet appears to go into the armhole, but up high, near the shoulder. Most commercial patterns with an into-the-armhole line go into the armpit. Personally, I use an over-the-shoulder cut, because it uses less fabric and I find it more flattering. Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 22:17:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30706 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:17:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01642; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:36:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24689 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:31:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24682 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:31:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990922033131.WQLO13005.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:31:31 -0700 Message-ID: <37E84D79.61EF6CB5@home.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:31:05 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress References: <199909220300.XAA09992@bajor.ici.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kat & Kent Irene leNoir wrote: > > That depends on what you mean by "into the armhole". The seamline in > the portrait by Fouquet appears to go into the armhole, but up high, > near the shoulder. Most commercial patterns with an into-the-armhole > line go into the armpit. Personally, I use an over-the-shoulder cut, > because it uses less fabric and I find it more flattering. Looking at one of my cotehardies made with the pattern that Nerak gave me, the seam goes in about 7" below the shoulder seam, putting it (on me) slightly higher than half-way between the lowest point of the armhole and the shoulder seam. BTW the picture in the URL is one that I saved at one point to put on a nursing t-shirt (with the caption "Jesus was a breast-fed baby" ). Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 22:23:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30716 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:23:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02277; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:42:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA25522 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:37:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25515 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:37:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990922033743.WSRF13005.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:37:43 -0700 Message-ID: <37E84EEC.F0C2F5AD@home.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:37:16 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Mid 19th Century Little Boy Clothes References: <37E812C6.108702@asu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kat & Kent The Adjutant's Office wrote: > > Can anyone recommend a pattern for a Civil War era-ish outfit for a > little boy? I realize that a three year old boy would probably be > still be in skirts, but I don't know that I'll be able to get him to > put another dress on, so I'm looking for something along the lines of > a sailor suit. My sewing ability is moderate and I can't draft my own > patterns, so I am hoping someone out there has done the work for me! > > Any suggestions, on-or-off list, will be very gratefully received! I don't recall seeing any for boys in the 'big 3' but I seem to remember seeing one in the Alter Years catalog... unfortunately my dad has my copy so I can't confirm. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 22:28:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30720 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:28:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02707; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:45:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26144 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:41:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26139 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:41:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990922034134.WUCC13005.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:41:34 -0700 Message-ID: <37E84FD4.6070F59F@home.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:41:08 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Med Misc & other things References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kat & Kent Appin1@aol.com wrote: > > I never use MM patterns because I draft my own for the most part. I > used one (the Tudor lady's gown) for a friend maybe 10 years ago and > found it to be pretty useless. The sizing was ... interesting and the > instructions were obscure. I could not understand them. At that time, > I had been doing historical costuming for some 15 or more years and > had a bunch of SCA awards (including a Laurel) for it. The clothing is > reasonably well researched. Mistress Nerak told me the first time I saw one of these that a) never, ever, ever try to read the instructions... just look at the pictures and b) never, ever, ever cut them... make copies of your pattern pieces on butcher paper... otoh I've heard that some of the patterns have been changed so that you don't have pieces a, b, c & d all occupying one space on the pattern. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 22:29:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30724 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:29:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02955; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:47:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA26375 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:43:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26369 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:43:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990922034318.WUPZ13005.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:43:18 -0700 Message-ID: <37E8503B.F8652B5C@home.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:42:51 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Books References: <37E7B137.50E0C381@us.oracle.com> <007001bf0451$d9659b00$5f075cc3@herimats> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kat & Kent LDMundy wrote: > > Amongst many , there is one book that I find very useful for hasty > reference; with such a bad memeory its important to me. > John Peacocks -Costume 1066-1990; It's just pictures with overwritten > short notes ( but it is only UK in most parts) 130?pages at 8 > illustrations per page, broken down into the relevant periods It's > simplistic but quick. I have this one... I use it to give me design ideas for variations (particularly when I'm costuming a play) or for folx to look at when they're unsure what 'period' they are interested in for a costume. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 22:51:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30777 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:51:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05222; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:10:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA29720 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:05:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29710 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:05:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA01855 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-253.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.253]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA29118 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <013501bf04b0$e252dde0$bb00fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: rolled pleats? Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:13:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Michelle" Sounds like something Clotilde would carry. They carry a lot of odd little gadgets and I remember seeing several pleat makers a little different than what you are describing. Michelle -----Original Message----- From: schuck@vci.net To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 12:55 PM Subject: H-COST: Re: rolled pleats? > >-Poster: "schuck@vci.net" > >I don't remember where, but I once saw a tool (modern-made) that is used for making pleats like this. It looked something like a large, three-pronged fork. You were supposed to use it by putting the two outside prongs on one side of the fabric and the center prong on the other side. Then you would just twist the fork a few times and voila--- pleats! Has anyone else seen a tool like this? It looked very useful. I wish I could remember where I saw it! > >jb > ><<<<series of fabric rolls. You pinch a piece of fabric up, roll it two or >three times, and flatten it down.>>> > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 22:57:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30784 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:57:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05720; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:15:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA00663 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:11:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00649 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:11:38 -0600 (MDT) From: Elysant@aol.com Received: from Elysant@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ABUa03913 (3925) for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:11:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6c7587bb.2519b0d4@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:11:00 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: 14th century Dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elysant@aol.com -Poster: I thank you M'Ladies Irene and Marouda, as well as the other gentles who have provided me with information on the 14th century Dress I am to make. I have a few additional questions if I may. Firstly, how and where is the dress fastened? Secondly, what kind of headgear would be worn with the gown if one is attempting to depict a 14th century French Lady? And lastly, I am assuming that a loose sleeveless surcote of a more ornate or heavier but complimentary fabric, perhaps trimmed with fur or trim would be worn over the dress (below knee length and bell shaped). Am I correct? Thank you again for all your help. Elysant _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 22:57:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30788 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:57:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA05798; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:16:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA00776 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:12:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.inil.com (inil.com [206.31.32.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00766 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:12:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.176.240.105] by mail.inil.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 177-57935U7500L650S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:12:01 -0500 X-Sender: baddorf@pop3.inil.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37E539D1.8A9830BC@ndh.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:13:07 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Deb Baddorf Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: White Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Deb Baddorf > The things that make white appear very bright are OBAs(optical brightening >agents) they are a dye basically, you get all shades I used to colour match >them. They are certainly in many UK washing powders and on most whites and >yes glow under Ultra Violet light. > > The brighteners are part of every modern detergent except for those >intended for couloured clothing.The use of blueing got abolished after >the invention of the brighteners because of the indigo`s disadvantage that >it could dye the clothing blue if not carefully handled. >I work in the detergent industry, that`s where my knowledge in this field >comes from ;-). I've read that parts of (modern) Europe have different tastes in "white" than the USA has --- and that a mild pink tone is desired (and therefore manufactured) in their "whites". So white isn't always white .... Deb Baddorf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 23:05:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30804 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:05:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA06574; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:24:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA02056 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:20:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA02041 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:20:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909220420.WAA02041@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 26125 invoked from network); 21 Sep 1999 22:20:00 -0600 Received: from ts26-20.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.134) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 21 Sep 1999 22:20:00 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Danielle's (not mine) underthings: Ever After Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:26:47 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" Wow, a name! Farsinetto! Picture me dancing around the room! Well, OK, never mind picturing me dancing, it's not a pretty sight. Anyway, thanks Drea. A couple of posts back I mentioned that it would be cool if we (the list) could talk to costume designers and pick their brains. On another list I belong to, they have guest speakers once a month. Everyone meets in a chat room to hear/read the person speak on a subject, then there is a question and answer period. Now, I haven't actually participated in one of these yet, so I am not entirely sure of the particulars, but wouldn't that be neat? Kathlene ---------- > From: aleed > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Danielle's (not mine) underthings: Ever After > Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 7:32 AM > > > -Poster: aleed > > > I think the close-fitting supportive undergarment which Danielle is seen > wearing would be closest to a "farsinetto", which is basically a > supportive, sleeveless undergarment worn under gowns in 15th century > Italy. That's about all I know about it. An expert on the subject > mentioned it on this list some time ago...Carole Frick? I think it was > she. > > Drea > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 23:13:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30834 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:13:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07431; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:32:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA03287 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:28:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (pop1.cyberhighway.net [209.161.0.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA03278 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:28:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909220428.WAA03278@net.indra.com> Received: (qmail 28473 invoked from network); 21 Sep 1999 22:28:25 -0600 Received: from ts26-20.boi.cyberhighway.net (HELO kathy) (209.161.8.134) by pop1.cyberhighway.net with SMTP; 21 Sep 1999 22:28:25 -0600 From: "K & J Hopkins" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Rolled pleats? Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:35:13 -0600 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" Drea, OK, so you have this fabric rolled up. Now what? Do you sew it down to the fabric or sew it to the next pleat? Would you roll the next pleat in the opposite direction or in the same direction? Would you roll in the same direction around the whole skirt or at some point, lets say center back, would you change direction? Kathlene ---------- > From: aleed > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Rolled pleats? > Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 9:37 AM > > > -Poster: aleed > > > Rolled pleats (also called stacked pleats, I found out) are basically a > series of fabric rolls. You pinch a piece of fabric up, roll it two or > three times, and flatten it down. Here's a diagram: > > > ______________ > | __________ | > | |_______ | | > |_________| | | > _________________| |___________ > > Drea > > On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Dean Quackenbush wrote: > > > > > -Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" > > > > > Drea, what are rolled pleats? > > > > Organ-pipe pleats are another name for what I believe she is referring to. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Gail DeCamp > > To: > > Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 4:53 PM > > Subject: H-COST: Rolled pleats? > > > > > > > > > > -Poster: Gail DeCamp > > > > > > > > > Drea Leed posted: > > > > > > >I haven't seen anything regarding bumrolls, either...but I've found that > > > >when I use a small & loosely stuffed one under a skirt pleated with > > rolled > > > >pleats, it looks smack out of a Cranach painting. > > > > > > Drea, what are rolled pleats? > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > Gail DeCamp > > > > > > > > > Dogs come when you call them. Cats have answering machines. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 21 23:22:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA30870 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 23:22:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08032; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:41:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA04629 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:37:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.inreach.com (mail2.inreach.com [209.142.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA04621 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:37:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (209-142-3-98.stk.inreach.net [209.142.3.98]) by smtp.inreach.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27314 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:21:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E85C04.DF12795B@inreach.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:33:08 -0700 From: Diana H Organization: Well, I wouldn't call it organized...... X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Early 16th cent German Corsetry- X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <37E6E37A.EC875C5A@inreach.com> <000d01bf0435$a9f13bc0$5bc47ad1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Diana H Andrea Gideon wrote: > -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > > I know that people use corsets for this style but the correct > silhouette > > can be achieved by other methods. The corsets of other countries > during > > the same time period won't give the right look. > > Actually an Italian Ren corset does give the right look. The desired > effect > is the same, slightly flattened and stuffed uni-boob. > Andrea Andrea, The style of Italian Renn you are referring to is about 30-50 years earlier than the German style we are discussing. If you don't mind backtracking a little then yes, that style of corset would work pretty much. Diana -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "There are too many mediocre things in life to deal with.....Love shouldn't be one of them." --Ione Skye in "Dream for an Insomniac" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 04:22:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA27630 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 04:22:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA24936; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 03:41:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA29763 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 03:36:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA29494 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 03:36:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JG9NTZQTSW002065@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:41:15 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JG9NTYE0BS001YGQ@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:41:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:34:14 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:33:45 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:33:37 +1100 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:33:36 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress - "princess" seams In-reply-to: <199909220220.UAA14520@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <4D998E2457E@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: teddy1 OK, Now I'm confused.... Possibly I'm thinking of "princess" seaming as being something different from what is referred to in these two posts...? > From: Irene leNoir > - -Poster: Irene leNoir > > Elysant de Holtham wrote: > >I have a princess line pattern, and if that would > >be more accurate, how would I adapt that to be as authentic > >as I could be for what I want? > > The earliest documentable occurance of princess line cutting that I know > of is from a painting of the Virgin and Child by Jean Fouquet from about > 1430-1450. > http://cgfa.kelloggcreek.com/fouquet/p-fouquet3.htm > Without going out on too much of a limb, you could probably justify using > a princess line cut for a dress as early as around 1420 or so. > If you do decide to go with the princess line version, there is probably > very little that you will need to do to alter your pattern. Just make > sure the skirt is full and long, and that the neckline is rounded. If you > decide that you want decorative sleeves, then that could also require > alterations, but you can use just plain long fitted sleeves. > From: Kat & Kent > I know that I was told at one point by Mistress Nerak that the seam on the > princess line go into the armhole to turn a princess line into a period > cotehardie. If you can find a princess line pattern that has the seam > over the bust going into the armhole then you can use it as is. > > Kat I was under the impression that "princess" seaming involved seams that curve out from the armhole, across the bust, down to the waist and then flare out into the skirts. Have I got this wrong? A variation on this (that I have seen in some 15th century paintings and *thought* was more period than the seam-into-armhole version) has the seam coming down from the shoulder (sometimes the neckline if it's a very wide neckline) rather than from the armhole. The painting of Virgin and Child has the top end of the seam obscured by the cloak so it could go to either but looks (to me) as if it is headed up to the shoulder (possibly very close to the armhole seam or intersecting with it up near the shoulder). But that is conjecture as it can't actually be seen. Anyone else got any thoughts on this? Teddy (in the middle of making a rusty-orange velvet "cotehardie" using the seam-to-the-shoulder variation for a friend) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 06:55:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01396 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:55:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01248; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:12:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA08232 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:08:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08224 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:08:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (d-ma-superpop-1-77.ici.net [207.180.41.77]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA19023 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:08:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909221208.IAA19023@bajor.ici.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress - "princess" seams Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:08:33 -0400 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id GAA08228 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Irene leNoir Teddy wrote: >OK, Now I'm confused.... Possibly I'm thinking of "princess" >seaming as being something different from what is referred to in >these two posts...? >I was under the impression that "princess" seaming involved seams >that curve out from the armhole, across the bust, down to the waist >and then flare out into the skirts. Close. Princess seaming is any seam arrangement that uses vertical seamlines to achieve a fit over the bust and shoulders and through the body, without any darts or horizontal seams. Most modern patterns that are princess seamed have the main shaping seam travel into (or out from, depending on your point of view) the armhole, usually somewhere near the armpit. But some variations have the seam enter the armhole higher up, towards the shoulder. Even others don't enter the armhole, but go over the shoulder, or even into a wide neckline. So, all the variations you descrived fall into the category of princess seaming. Note also that although rare, you can sometimes find mens garments that use princess seaming. >The painting of Virgin and Child has the top end of the seam >obscured by the cloak so it could go to either but looks (to me) as >if it is headed up to the shoulder (possibly very close to the >armhole seam or intersecting with it up near the shoulder). But >that is conjecture as it can't actually be seen. You are correct. I've known different people to interpret this seam different ways, probably based on which way they want it to be. After much work at attempting to be objective, I've admitted to myself that I think it looks like it does actually intersect the armhole seam, but definitely very close to the shoulder. It definitely does not go aywhere close to the armpit. Hope this helps. Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 07:40:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA01595 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:40:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA03852; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:58:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA13063 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:53:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.pa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.pa.home.com [24.2.5.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13057 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:53:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kjroom ([24.40.39.20]) by mail.rdc1.pa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990922125343.FSET24201.mail.rdc1.pa.home.com@kjroom> for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 05:53:43 -0700 From: "Kristen Gee" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Fasteners Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:53:45 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bf04f9$821d4f70$0600a8c0@kjroom> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 In-Reply-To: <37DC9DA6.60F4@home.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Kristen Gee" Hi, I realize this is a little belated, but here goes. I usually use an ice pick to work holes for grommets in. What also works is some sort of sharpened smooth stick, like a chopstick or a dowel. I just put them in the pencil sharpener and it makes a nice smooth poking stick. This can be done to a lot of fabrics, just making sure that the fibers don't break. I don't know if this would be easier or harder than punching. Kristen --------------------------------------------- -Poster: Freya A little late for delurking day, but here goes. We used to have an eyeleting machine and I'm looking for a replacement. It looked like an over-grown office stapler. It operated by placing the item to be eyeleted on the base and pulling down the lever. The little eyelet holder would then rotate and another eyelet would drop down into the track waiting for it's turn. I've been doing an increasing amount of grommeting but punching the holes with our rotery hole punch is too hard on my hands. Does anyone have a solution for either the hole punching or a source for an affordable eyeleting/grommeting machine. I hope that made sense. -- Freya Abair ach beag, is abair gu math e. Say but little, and say it well. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 08:21:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01712 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:21:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07235; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:38:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA18680 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:33:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18667 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:33:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-204-59.s567.tnt3.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.204.59]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA23454 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:33:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004101bf0500$7639c6a0$3bcc7ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <37E6E37A.EC875C5A@inreach.com> <000d01bf0435$a9f13bc0$5bc47ad1@pavilion> <37E85C04.DF12795B@inreach.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Early 16th cent German Corsetry- Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:43:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > Andrea, > > The style of Italian Renn you are referring to is about 30-50 years > earlier than the German style we are discussing. If you don't mind > backtracking a little then yes, that style of corset would work pretty > much. > > Diana > What do you mean by backtracking? If it gives the proper look, what does it matter when or where it came from? If it gives the proper look, couldn't it be possible that it is similar to what was used? Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 08:22:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01720 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:22:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07414; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:40:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA19094 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:36:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19085 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:36:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA03268 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:36:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA29155 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:36:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:36:43 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Rolled pleats? In-Reply-To: <199909220428.WAA03278@net.indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed You flatten it and sew it down to the fabric. you roll the next pleat in the same direction. Start at the center front with the pleats facing towards the back, and have the pleats meet at the back. Drea On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, K & J Hopkins wrote: > > -Poster: "K & J Hopkins" > > Drea, > > OK, so you have this fabric rolled up. Now what? Do you sew it down to > the fabric or sew it to the next pleat? Would you roll the next pleat in > the opposite direction or in the same direction? Would you roll in the > same direction around the whole skirt or at some point, lets say center > back, would you change direction? > > Kathlene > > ---------- > > From: aleed > > To: h-costume@indra.com > > Subject: Re: H-COST: Rolled pleats? > > Date: Tuesday, September 21, 1999 9:37 AM > > > > > > -Poster: aleed > > > > > > Rolled pleats (also called stacked pleats, I found out) are basically a > > series of fabric rolls. You pinch a piece of fabric up, roll it two or > > three times, and flatten it down. Here's a diagram: > > > > > > ______________ > > | __________ | > > | |_______ | | > > |_________| | | > > _________________| |___________ > > > > Drea > > > > On Mon, 20 Sep 1999, Dean Quackenbush wrote: > > > > > > > > -Poster: "Dean Quackenbush" > > > > > > > Drea, what are rolled pleats? > > > > > > Organ-pipe pleats are another name for what I believe she is referring > to. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Gail DeCamp > > > To: > > > Sent: Monday, September 20, 1999 4:53 PM > > > Subject: H-COST: Rolled pleats? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Poster: Gail DeCamp > > > > > > > > > > > > Drea Leed posted: > > > > > > > > >I haven't seen anything regarding bumrolls, either...but I've found > that > > > > >when I use a small & loosely stuffed one under a skirt pleated with > > > rolled > > > > >pleats, it looks smack out of a Cranach painting. > > > > > > > > Drea, what are rolled pleats? > > > > > > > > thanks > > > > > > > > Gail DeCamp > > > > > > > > > > > > Dogs come when you call them. Cats have answering machines. > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 08:24:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA01724 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:24:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07628; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:42:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA19405 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:37:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA19396 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 07:37:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.148] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Tmak-0003b6-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:37:50 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 06:35:27 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: ATTN: Julie Adams/Other Party with Recommendations Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" I think I'm finally getting the right mental image, but to be sure--could you please give me a few references to pictures that include a gown with organ pleating, book/url, whatever...except for rare/expensive... :-) Thank you very much, in advance! Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 10:23:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01961 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:23:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25331; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:40:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA14776 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:36:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14767 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:36:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08174 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:36:01 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp210-72.worldonline.nl [195.241.210.72]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15090 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:35:59 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909221535.RAA15090@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re. Metallic thread Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:27:11 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Kate wrote: > I remember reading somewhere that a pastime for ladies during the Napoleonic Wars was using a special device for shredding old epaulettes etc. from uniforms, in order to extract the gold for recycling. And we think recycling is a new idea! Recycling is as old as the world. It's only been during the last 25-30 years that our consumersociety has become so bloated that recycling is no longer fashionable (except for a certain kind of more aware persons!). Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 10:23:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01964 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:23:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25334; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:40:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA14788 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:36:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14777 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:36:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA08217 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:36:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp210-72.worldonline.nl [195.241.210.72]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id RAA15108 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:36:01 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909221536.RAA15108@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Books Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:40:30 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Dave wrote: > Amongst many , there is one book that I find very useful for hasty > reference; with such a bad memeory its important to me. > John Peacocks -Costume 1066-1990; It's just pictures with overwritten short > notes ( but it is only UK in most parts) 130?pages at 8 illustrations per > page, broken down into the relevant periods It's simplistic but quick. I'm afraid I must disagree here. I find John Peacock a very poor artist who pictured the costumes in a very unclear and rather clumsy way. You can see this for yourself if you compare his pictures with his models. He mixes periods (especially in the middle ages) and draws several anachronisms. His comments are not very good either. Personally I hate the heavy men's legs he draws. > the foreword contains my most favourite of > quotes:_--- > "Costume is not a triviality; it is the visible raiment of the soul" I'm sorry, but I find this a bit over the top... No offence; it's Lavers quote anyway. It reminds me of a certain kind of bogus art-hysterians (note: I wrote 'bogus', I don't include the real ones!), who don't leave a stone unturned to promote and mysticise their (in my view; boy, will I get flamed over this) rather useless occupation.... Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 10:25:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01985 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:25:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA25826; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:43:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA15502 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:38:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from eclipse.pacifier.com (eclipse.pacifier.com [199.2.117.78]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15496 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:38:48 -0600 (MDT) From: kat@grendal.rain.com Received: (from daemon@localhost) by eclipse.pacifier.com (8.9.3/8.9.3pop) id IAA08533 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:38:43 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909221538.IAA08533@eclipse.pacifier.com> Received: from ip87.van21.pacifier.com(216.65.138.87), claiming to be "grendal2" via SMTP by smtp.pacifier.com, id smtpdBAAVoa4Fq; Wed Sep 22 08:38:34 1999 Comments: Authenticated sender is To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:41:42 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Priority: normal In-reply-to: <37E83B1D.95306010@home.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: kat@grendal.rain.com The other Kat wrote: > I know that I was told at one point by Mistress Nerak that the seam on > the princess line go into the armhole to turn a princess line into a > period cotehardie. If you can find a princess line pattern that has the > seam over the bust going into the armhole then you can use it as is. The princess line can either go into the armhole or up to the shoulder. What you don't want it to do is take turns (even rounded ones) such as those in the "military cut". The line should be relatively straight. If it has a "military cut" (which is a major curve at the bust which takes the curve into the armhole), straighten it out by flat pattern method so that it goes to the shoulder or upper armhole. Kat Kat(June Russell) kat@grendal.rain.com Heu! Tintinnuntius meus Sonat! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 10:29:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01995 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:29:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26536; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:47:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16635 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:43:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA16605 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:43:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA21736; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E8F97B.C0F3F07C@serv.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 08:44:59 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress References: <199909220300.XAA09992@bajor.ici.net> <37E84D79.61EF6CB5@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris The first problem is that none of you are talking about a cotehardie. The 'kirtles' you are referring to came along 40-50 years later. Minimum. Just to clarify that. As far as I can tell cotehardies were a four panel dress, no princess seams what so ever. Just my $.02, Cynthia > > That depends on what you mean by "into the armhole". The seamline in > > the portrait by Fouquet appears to go into the armhole, but up high, > > near the shoulder. Most commercial patterns with an into-the-armhole > > line go into the armpit. Personally, I use an over-the-shoulder cut, > > because it uses less fabric and I find it more flattering. > > Looking at one of my cotehardies made with the pattern that Nerak gave > me, the seam goes in about 7" below the shoulder seam, putting it (on > me) slightly higher than half-way between the lowest point of the > armhole and the shoulder seam. BTW the picture in the URL is one that I > saved at one point to put on a nursing t-shirt (with the caption "Jesus > was a breast-fed baby" ). > > Kat > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 11:00:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02028 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:00:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02242; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:18:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24544 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:13:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24535 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:13:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990922161347.HGUS29141.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:13:47 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:02:38 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Books From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990922161347.HGUS29141.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "R.L. Shep" Peacock's books are just great for a very very overall view of anything. It is a good way to find out what you want to look for and then use some more in depth references for any particular era to really see what those costume elements are. He is writing for Fashion Designers and for them and an overall view of things they work... but not for serious costume study. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: "Henk 't Jong" >To: >Subject: Re: H-COST: Books >Date: Wed, Sep 22, 1999, 8:40 AM > > >-Poster: "Henk 't Jong" > >Henk & Pauline 't Jong >tScapreel >Medieval Advisors >Dordrecht, Netherlands > >Hi, > >Dave wrote: >> Amongst many , there is one book that I find very useful for hasty >> reference; with such a bad memeory its important to me. >> John Peacocks -Costume 1066-1990; It's just pictures with overwritten >short >> notes ( but it is only UK in most parts) 130?pages at 8 illustrations per >> page, broken down into the relevant periods It's simplistic but quick. > >I'm afraid I must disagree here. I find John Peacock a very poor artist who >pictured the costumes in a very unclear and rather clumsy way. You can see >this for yourself if you compare his pictures with his models. He mixes >periods (especially in the middle ages) and draws several anachronisms. His >comments are not very good either. Personally I hate the heavy men's legs >he draws. > >> the foreword contains my most favourite of >> quotes:_--- >> "Costume is not a triviality; it is the visible raiment of the soul" > >I'm sorry, but I find this a bit over the top... No offence; it's Lavers >quote anyway. It reminds me of a certain kind of bogus art-hysterians >(note: I wrote 'bogus', I don't include the real ones!), who don't leave a >stone unturned to promote and mysticise their (in my view; boy, will I get >flamed over this) rather useless occupation.... > >Henk > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 11:06:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02044 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:06:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03157; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:23:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25898 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:19:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25884 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:19:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA06247 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:19:34 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp204-35.worldonline.nl [195.241.204.35]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA26540 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:19:32 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909221619.SAA26540@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Houppelande Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:04:49 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Chas wrote: > A Bastard houppelande is one that is or about ankle length, or so I have been > taught and have read. The great houppelandes were ones that not only drug > the ground, but actually made a respectable puddle of fabric at the feet. > You can witness these in many Italian portraits. Riding houppelandes had to > be shorter than even a bastard houppelande, and therefor were cut at the > knees or perhaps a tad higher. If you study portaits from the 12th-15th > centuries you can see the evolution of this garment. IMO houppelandes came into being in the second half of the 14th c. I suppose they are a follow-up of the gardecorps/supertotus type of overcoat, which can be traced to ca 1250 or a bit earlier. But 12th c; I don't think so. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 11:07:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02049 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:07:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03251; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:24:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25937 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:19:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25923 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:19:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA06322 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:19:40 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp204-35.worldonline.nl [195.241.204.35]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA26577 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:19:38 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909221619.SAA26577@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 14th century Dress Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:24:01 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Elysant wrote: > Firstly, how and where is the dress fastened? > > Secondly, what kind of headgear would be worn with the gown if one is > attempting to depict a 14th century French Lady? > These all depend on the exact period, place and class. > And lastly, I am assuming that a loose sleeveless surcote of a more ornate or > heavier but complimentary fabric, perhaps trimmed with fur or trim would be > worn over the dress (below knee length and bell shaped). Am I correct? > Not entirely. A sleeveless surcotte makes in pre 1350 for fashionable France, these were foot lenght or longer for young nobility, and for winter were lined with furs, not only trimmed, although fur was visible at neck and armopenings. For summer they were lined with silk or linen. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 11:07:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02053 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:07:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03257; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:24:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25927 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:19:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25909 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:19:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA06313 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:19:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp204-35.worldonline.nl [195.241.204.35]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA26568 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:19:37 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909221619.SAA26568@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: German costuming books Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:18:49 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Clair wrote: > There is a series of books in the library here called 'Die Mode' I think. > The first one is on the middle ages and then one for each century afterwards. > My German is pretty minimal so I don't read the text but they have lots of > pictures, mainly of course German ones, but a reasonable no. from elsewhere > which is what I look at it for. This is a series of books by Max von Boehm, which he wrote during the first World War and later and which started appearing soon after 1918. My 'Mittelalter' copy dates back to 1963 (6th impression). It's useless as a costume history; it's more a cultural and art history (and some of you know I can't stand these), but it has some very rare pictures. My favourite periode (1250-1350) is hardly mentioned, except for the Manesse MS (as usual). Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 11:08:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02057 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:08:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03248; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:24:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25906 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:19:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25895 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:19:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA06271 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:19:36 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp204-35.worldonline.nl [195.241.204.35]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA26547 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:19:34 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909221619.SAA26547@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Bastard Sword [was Re: Men's Costuming] Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:08:05 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Sarah wrote: > If you REALLY want to ruin your movie watching > experience, try to see a show put on by the "Crossed > Swords"... they are a husband and wife team that > travel the country coreographing (sp?) film and stage > fights and giving very funny lectures on what is wrong > with today's Hollywood fights... it is so funny, I was > rolling on the floor laughing... they usually can be > found at any gaming convention and at some ren faires. Please, tell me more about these people, if necessary by private mail. Thank you, Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 11:26:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02076 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:26:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06114; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:43:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01135 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:39:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01119 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:39:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id JAA24272; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:39:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E906A2.45574BB3@serv.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:41:07 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: 14th century Dress References: <6c7587bb.2519b0d4@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > I thank you M'Ladies Irene and Marouda, as well as the other gentles who have > provided me with information on the 14th century Dress I am to make. You are most welcome. :) > Firstly, how and where is the dress fastened? Well that would depend on the dress. In the 14th century fashions changed *VERY* rapidly. Each decade has a different set of details that set it aside from the others. Sometimes front lacing or front buttons were used. Sometimes you can't tell. I personally use front lacing because there is such wonderful docuementation for it. Also, because I have no hand maiden and must dress myself it keeps me from lying on my back in the middle of the night in tears like a turtle that can't turn over. *GGG* But buttons would work too. > Secondly, what kind of headgear would be worn with the gown if one is > attempting to depict a 14th century French Lady? Again, this would depend on the decade as the head gear changed more than anything else in the 14th century. I recommend you get the book from the library _A Visual History of the 14th and 15th Centuries_ by Margaret Scott. Lots and lots of good pictures to help you with ideas. > And lastly, I am assuming that a loose sleeveless surcote of a more ornate or > heavier but complimentary fabric, perhaps trimmed with fur or trim would be > worn over the dress (below knee length and bell shaped). Am I correct? Sleeveless or sideless. That later in the century the more sideless it became. And in many many cases no surcote is worn at all, especially mid to late century. You're close but look at as many pictures as you can. And Don't use the McCall's Medieval surcote pattern. BLEAH! If you have to use one, the new Simplicity pattern is much closer. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 11:28:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02080 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:28:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06582; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:46:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01829 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:42:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.32]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01824 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:42:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mai040RS1.lib.ohio-state.edu (mai040rs1.lib.ohio-state.edu [128.146.115.31]) by mail3.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA10708 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:42:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990922124611.006a4ce0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: mhamilto@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:46:11 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling In-Reply-To: <199909221535.RAA15090@worldonline.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" >Recycling is as old as the world. It's only been during the last 25-30 >years that our consumer society has become so bloated that recycling is no >longer fashionable..... How true. My wardrobe from childhood to junior high consisted primarily of my older sister's hand-me-downs. (Until I learned to sew all my own things). She took care of her clothes so it was less obvious. After that, we'd redo things--turn pants into shorts, add borders to lengthen a skirt or give them to the church rummage sale (if the fabric wasn't appropriate for reworking). Items we kept would be used as outside play/work clothes until unusable, then cut up for dust cloths or scrub rags. This was the 50's and 60's. We were middle class, not destitute or anything like that. I assume poorer people used their clothes even longer. It was considered virtuous frugality at the time, not recycling to save the planet. If I were to suggest any of this to my daughter now, she'd have me institutionalized. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 11:37:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02086 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:37:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA07780; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:54:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03959 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:50:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03947 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:50:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id JAA24730; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:50:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E9093D.E1C8FFC6@serv.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:52:13 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling References: <3.0.3.32.19990922124611.006a4ce0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > After that, > we'd redo things--turn pants into shorts, add borders to lengthen a > skirt or give them to the church rummage sale (if the fabric wasn't > appropriate for reworking). Items we kept would be used as > outside play/work clothes until unusable, then cut up for dust cloths or > scrub rags. This was the 50's and 60's. We were middle class, not > destitute or anything like that. I assume poorer people used their clothes > even longer. It was considered virtuous frugality at the time, not > recycling to save the planet. Virtuous frugality indeed. :) I *like* it. I personally felt *Very* virtuous the other day when I did all my mending. It's as if I have new clothes. *G* But this is a great idea. Thrift stores are great these days but has anyone noticed that there just aren't as many places to drop things off at anymore? Shorts into pants etc... It's so sad how wasteful we have become especially in the U.S. It's very heartening to know that folks are trying not to do that as much. It a centuries old tradition and a good one. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 12:08:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02118 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:08:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA14719; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:25:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07521 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:01:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07514 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:01:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-31.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FIH00K8I0LFY4@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:00:54 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:00:53 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress - "princess" seams To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <37E90B45.6711962E@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199909221619.KAA25960@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marc Carlson Just a quickie comment: The painting referred to in the quote: "The earliest documentable occurance of princess line cutting that I know of is from a painting of the Virgin and Child by Jean Fouquet from about 1430-1450. http://cgfa.kelloggcreek.com/fouquet/p-fouquet3.htm Without going out on too much of a limb, you could probably justify using a princess line cut for a dress as early as around 1420 or so" is referring to a 15th century garment, not a 14th century one. This means that the author found NOTHING to support a "princess line" garment earlier than this. Therefore, if you are wanting to do 14th century French, this is probably not a design you need to use. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 12:33:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02169 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:33:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18899; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:47:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18275 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:42:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18267 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:42:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id KAA26947; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:43:25 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E91596.500F20A6@serv.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:44:55 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Historical Costume , SCA Garb Subject: H-COST: russian Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris First off, please pardon the cross posting. :} Well, now I feel silly for not paying more attention to the fairly recent Russian discussions. Our current reign in the SCA does "russian". I have no idea what time period if that matters. So our Yule feast is going to be Russian in theme. And I would like to participate. I would like to make something relatively quickly if that is at all possible, not too picky about accuracy, more interested in silhouette and fabrics looking right. And if it's too much, I'll wear my new black velvet cotehardie with the gold shot silk lined sleeves and ghita and say "oh, well". *GGGG* Any quick web sites with pictures?? And condensed commentary? Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 12:33:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02173 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:33:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19031; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:48:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18468 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:43:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f118.hotmail.com [216.32.181.118]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA18459 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:43:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 97734 invoked by uid 0); 22 Sep 1999 17:43:15 -0000 Message-ID: <19990922174315.97733.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 165.248.247.16 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:43:15 PDT X-Originating-IP: [165.248.247.16] From: "Tara German" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 16th cent German-organ pipe pleats Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:43:15 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Tara German" Okay, considering my name, I think I have to make one of these Cranach gowns. *G* So if I'm making these organ pipe pleats in the skirt, what's the math that goes with it? How do I figure the waist circumference before pleating? For example, if I'm making box pleats the rule of thumb is to have 3x your waist measurement. What would it be for organ pipes? Tara ------------------------------ Read and leave comments on mail order merchants. http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/Plaze/4884/contents.html ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 12:42:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02187 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:42:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA20929; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:59:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21556 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:55:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx2.io.com (IDENT:root@mx2.io.com [199.170.88.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA21547 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:55:08 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by mx2.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA05813 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:55:07 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA08813 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:55:06 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:55:06 -0500 (CDT) To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: Burda Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches@io.com I have lost my url for the Burda link and cannot locate it anywhere. Does anyone have it? Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 12:54:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA02214 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:54:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22921; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:11:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA24383 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:06:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24360 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:06:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA25776 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:15:16 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA27100 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:13:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:13:24 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Books In-Reply-To: <199909221536.RAA15108@worldonline.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Henk 't Jong wrote: > I'm afraid I must disagree here. I find John Peacock a very poor artist who > pictured the costumes in a very unclear and rather clumsy way. You can see > this for yourself if you compare his pictures with his models. He mixes > periods (especially in the middle ages) and draws several anachronisms. His > comments are not very good either. Personally I hate the heavy men's legs > he draws. I must agree with Henk. I don't know how Peacock is for the periods I don't work on myself, but his medieval section is wretched. The book seems to me to be designed for those theater costumers with no interest in period techniques; it shows many modernizations in both silhouette and cut, presumably to translate the medieval image to modern aesthetics and construction methods. If you're looking for a source that shows the medieval look and cut, I would advise against relying on an author who inserts "restraining straps" at the sides of a sideless surcote. Either he misinterpreted the belt visible through the open side in a medieval illustration, or he added the strap so that theater costumers could make the surcote pull closer to the body for a look that is presumably more appealing to the 20th-century eye. --Robin, in a rare fit of pique _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 13:09:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02256 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:09:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27128; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:26:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28397 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:21:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net (finch-post-12.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28378 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:21:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11Tr1F-000HT8-0C for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:21:29 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:20:23 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990922124611.006a4ce0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jean Waddie >How true. My wardrobe from childhood to junior high consisted primarily of >my older sister's hand-me-downs. > Items we kept would be used as >outside play/work clothes until unusable, then cut up for dust cloths or >scrub rags. This was the 50's and 60's. We were middle class, not >destitute or anything like that. I assume poorer people used their clothes >even longer. It was considered virtuous frugality at the time, not >recycling to save the planet. > >If I were to suggest any of this to my daughter now, she'd have me >institutionalized. Reading this, I realized that I am about to dye a pair of trousers that my sister (age 33) bought in a charity shop, grew out of (sideways) and handed on to me (age 30). And instead of throwing out the pyjama jackets my husband never wears, I gave them to him for bike-cleaning rags. Old habits .... -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 13:14:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02262 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:14:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28143; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:31:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00335 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:27:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA00316 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:27:23 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990922183835.11142.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:38:35 PDT Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:38:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Sarah Toney >even longer. It was considered virtuous frugality > at the time, not > >recycling to save the planet. > > > >If I were to suggest any of this to my daughter > now, she'd have me > >institutionalized. > I recently suggested to my sister that a great place to get cheap clothes that can make really cool outfits or be modified without fear of "messing up something expensive" was the Goodwill... I was then promptly told that I am "so uncool" and how long had it been since I was in high school? *sigh* I guess I am no longer with the "in" crowd. But, I have found some absolutely wonderful treasures that can be modified beyond imagination... I once purchased a button down shirt over which I built a "costume" for someone who had to change costumes rapidly in a play... and there are always the old curtains that give great fabric! Enough, though from me... I will continue to find other people's discards as my treasure (I realize as I notice I am wearing an old pair of my mother's jeans and my dad's sweater ;-) Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 13:20:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02268 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:20:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28934; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:37:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01860 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:33:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA01838; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:33:19 -0600 (MDT) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:33:19 -0600 (MDT) From: Elizabeth Lear Message-Id: <199909221833.MAA01838@net.indra.com> To: Historical Costume , SCA Garb Subject: Re: H-COST: russian Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Lear Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02312 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:59:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA04868; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:15:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA10593 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:10:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA10583 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:10:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA06390 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:10:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-150.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.150]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29878 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:10:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <009001bf052f$51d6d9e0$736ffea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:18:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Thrift stores are great these days >but has anyone noticed that there just aren't as many places to drop things off >at anymore? >Cynthia The Valley Children's Hospital here in Fresno used to have a playhouse out in front of it. It was completely closed except for a hole to put things through. It was used asa donation receptrical. All the stuff went to a small thrift store, in another area of town. that was run by a bunch of retired, elderly women who were strictly volunteers. The thrift store is still there but, since the hosiptal has moved to the top end of town, huge and completely modernized, there doesn't seem to be that receptrical any more. So, yeah, I have noticed that it is becoming harder to give your stuff away. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 14:04:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02323 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:04:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05870; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:21:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12051 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:17:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12032 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:17:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-61-173.s173.tnt1.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.61.173]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA18337 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:17:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005101bf052e$adb94d20$ad3daccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <19990922183835.11142.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:14:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Oh, I just got back from Goodwill with my lastest treasure! It is a vest with about 50 antique buttons sewn all over it. Really cool buttons, Victorian, coins, a glass globe, and shield shaped, to name a few. It cost me $5.00. I love thrift store shopping! We do seem to have a lot of them in Richmond. I look for a lot of one-of-a-kinds that people have added details to them. I am one of those people who just die if someone shows up wearing the same thing I am wearing. My goal is to create a whole outfit for $20 or less. Darn, Katie just tried on the vest and won't take it off. The battle for clothes has begun! Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 14:21:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02351 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:21:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08798; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:38:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA15902 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:33:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA15883 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:33:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem123.tweety.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.251] helo=herimats) by mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11Ts9I-0004h5-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:33:53 +0100 Message-ID: <002d01bf0531$6c7dbfa0$fb065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <199909221536.RAA15108@worldonline.nl> Subject: Re: H-COST: Books Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:33:28 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" Well we must differ then; You are the first person that I have come across that does not think that Peacocks style is simplistic. Somebody once put down my own work as being a bit like his so perhaps there is hope for me fter all. Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters > > -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" > > > Hi, > > Dave wrote: > > Amongst many , there is one book that I find very useful for hasty > > reference; with such a bad memeory its important to me. > > John Peacocks -Costume 1066-1990; It's just pictures with overwritten > short > > notes ( but it is only UK in most parts) 130?pages at 8 illustrations per > > page, broken down into the relevant periods It's simplistic but quick. > > I'm afraid I must disagree here. I find John Peacock a very poor artist who > pictured the costumes in a very unclear and rather clumsy way. You can see > this for yourself if you compare his pictures with his models. He mixes > periods (especially in the middle ages) and draws several anachronisms. His > comments are not very good either. Personally I hate the heavy men's legs > he draws. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 14:21:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02365 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:21:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA17232; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:37:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA15994 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:33:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA15981 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 11:33:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA14528 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:33:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: White In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley On Tue, 21 Sep 1999, Deb Baddorf wrote: > I've read that parts of (modern) Europe have different tastes > in "white" than the USA has --- and that a mild pink tone is > desired (and therefore manufactured) in their "whites". > So white isn't always white .... > > Deb Baddorf Funny, I've heard the same thing, but that yellow was the preferred tint, specifically in Italy. -- Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 14:24:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02373 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:24:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09373; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:41:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16679 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:37:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA16668 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:37:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11470 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:37:04 -0400 Message-ID: <37E92FE1.EE39A55A@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:38:51 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling References: <00bc01bf0530$2ff7c7c0$736ffea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > You would think, that with all this 'retro' in style, more kids would think > that thrift strores were the in thing. I expect it depends how you were raised. I had a friend from England visit, and I suggested going to a used bookstore after dinner, and she was *very* dubious until I reassured her that it was quite reputable, etc. She had a blast. If one was taught that only poor people need to buy used clothes, it takes a visit to a good consignment shop or decent thrift store to let reason prevail over training. And, sometimes it never will. There are some things I know are rationally fine, but just can't do myself. cv -- "The most outrageous lies that can be invented will find believers if a person only tells them with all his might." -- Mark Twain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 14:33:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02400 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:33:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11027; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:50:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA18793 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:46:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from email.boisestate.edu (email.boisestate.edu [132.178.16.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18779 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:46:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cobfac.boisestate.edu (cobfac.boisestate.edu [132.178.51.3]) by email.boisestate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21232 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:48:11 -0600 Message-Id: <199909221948.NAA21232@email.boisestate.edu> Received: from COBFAC/SpoolDir by cobfac.boisestate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 22 Sep 99 13:46:19 -0700 Received: from SpoolDir by COBFAC (Mercury 1.44); 22 Sep 99 13:46:05 -0700 From: "Linda Yordy" Organization: College of Business & Economics To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:46:00 -0700 Subject: H-COST: Princess seam/14th century Dress Priority: normal In-reply-to: <37E8F97B.C0F3F07C@serv.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Linda Yordy" I'm confused. We say that princess line seam didn't come around until the 15th century . . . I think someone said maybe as early as 1420? The Herjofsnes colony was abandoned somewhere between 1375 and 1410 give or take a few years (thanks for the great web page, Marc!). The clothes from this find are estimated to be from the 14th and early 15th centuries. Some speculate that the styles were probably behind the continent. So am I correct in assuming that Herjofsnes gowns came before the princess seam? If so, this is where I'm really confused. When I look at the diagram of a Herjofsnes gown, for example, No. 38 on Marc's site at http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/ cloth/herjol38.html (thanks again Marc) I interpret the seam between the center front panel and the side panel as a princess seam that ends at the armhole. So if I take the view that Herjofsnes picked up some of their design ideas from the continent and reflect the style a few years behind the rest of Europe (I know, this is speculation and may not be the case), can I assume that a cotehardie of say 1365 might have been done in panels and used a princess seam? Are my assumptions too wild, my eras off, or maybe my definition of a cotehardie not quite right? I believe the Elizabeth Crowfoot, Clothing and Textiles book shows the Herjofsnes diagram as a plausible construction for a cotehardie; however I don't have my references with me. Thanks! Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 14:45:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02436 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:45:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13306; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:02:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA21518 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:58:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news1.radix.net (news1.radix.net [209.48.224.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA21506 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:58:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by news1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA15625 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:56:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:57:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling In-Reply-To: <00bc01bf0530$2ff7c7c0$736ffea9@gunsafes> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Michelle wrote: > You would think, that with all this 'retro' in style, more kids would think > that thrift strores were the in thing. > Michelle Well, from what I understand, the whole retro look got started by a few pop/rock singers who went shopping at thrift stores when they were just starting out, then suddenly hit the big time and didn't bother to upgrade their wardrobes. So it's ironic that their imitators refuse to shop in thrift shops! -- Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 14:49:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02453 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:49:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA13890; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:06:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22647 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:02:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news1.radix.net (news1.radix.net [209.48.224.41]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22634 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:02:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by news1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA16790 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:00:38 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:02:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling In-Reply-To: <19990922195602.1598.rocketmail@web801.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Sarah Toney wrote: > I think it also depends on how your friends perceive > you (at least in the case of kids)... my sisters and I > were raised (until I moved out) on nothing but > secondhands, but my sisters still think it is awful, > now that they can have new clothes... My sister says > it is more of she couldn't stand having her friends > know she shopped there. > > Sarah I understand the value of a good thrift shop, but still... since most of my clothes, growing up, were from thrift shops (being a Navy brat, we didn't have much money), it's hard for me to get around my old resentment of having to wear secondhand stuff. I'll occasionally shop at the local thrift shop, but it's usually when I'm dropping stuff off. Mom still shops at thrift shops and is continually shoving stuff at me anyway, whether I can use it or not, which isn't a particularly thrifty habit -- if you spent $2 on something that will never be used, you've still wasted $2. -- Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 15:02:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02489 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:02:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15605; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:18:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25504 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:14:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from kutztown.edu (pooh.kutztown.edu [156.12.23.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25468 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:14:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (forte@localhost) by kutztown.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA24203 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:14:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:14:16 -0400 (EDT) From: "Johanna R. Forte" X-Sender: forte@pooh To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Dancing at Lughnasa production In-Reply-To: <37E92FE1.EE39A55A@thibault.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Johanna R. Forte" Help!!! Our theatre is doing a producton of Dancing at Lughnasa. Unfortunately, I've come up a bit short on two points in my research on the clothing for the 1930's and earlier. Can someone tell me where I can find a picture of a short version of the Wellington boot. In my research I repeatedly find the same blurb: "By the late 1920's, rubber wellingtons were being worn in inclement weather by women as well as by men." But no picture or description. Can anyone direct me to a source? Also, I am in search of a picture or a description of a British army officers chaplains uniform from about 1911. I have a picture from the film version of the play, but am reluctant to use that as a primary source. I've looked everywhere that I can think of and I'd greatly appreciate even the smallest of tidbits. Much thanks!! Johanna R. Forte Costume Designer Kutztown University _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 15:27:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02552 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:27:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20294; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:44:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA01794 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:39:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net [194.152.65.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01774 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:39:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem22.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.22] helo=herimats) by mailrelay2.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11TtAf-0002NG-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:39:22 +0100 Message-ID: <008901bf053a$9247bc00$fb065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Dancing at Lughnasa production Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:30:54 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LDMundy" If you are searching make sure you say Rubber Wellington as the real Wellington is technically something different ; Try a search on Paddington Bear- a famous wearer of short red rubber Wellies, or maybe try Dunlop. If no joy let me know and I will go hunt with my camera. Dave L.D.Mundy Editor.Heritage Matters ----- Original Message ----- From: Johanna R. Forte To: Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 9:14 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Dancing at Lughnasa production > > -Poster: "Johanna R. Forte" > > Help!!! Our theatre is doing a producton of Dancing at Lughnasa. > Unfortunately, I've come up a bit short on two points in my research on > the clothing for the 1930's and earlier. Can someone tell me where I can > find a picture of a short version of the Wellington boot. In my research > I repeatedly find the same blurb: "By the late 1920's, rubber wellingtons > were being worn in inclement weather by women as well as by men." But no > picture or description. Can anyone direct me to a source? Also, I am in > search of a picture or a description of a British army officers chaplains > uniform from about 1911. I have a picture from the film version of the > play, but am reluctant to use that as a primary source. I've looked > everywhere that I can think of and I'd greatly appreciate even the > smallest of tidbits. Much thanks!! > > Johanna R. Forte > Costume Designer > Kutztown University > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 15:46:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02622 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:46:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA23669; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:03:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA06745 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:59:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06737 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:59:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id NAA05118; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 13:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E943A3.562FC502@serv.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:01:23 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Princess seam/14th century Dress References: <199909221948.NAA21232@email.boisestate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > The Herjofsnes colony was abandoned somewhere between 1375 > and 1410 give or take a few years (thanks for the great web page, > Marc!). The clothes from this find are estimated to be from the 14th > and early 15th centuries. Some speculate that the styles were > probably behind the continent. So am I correct in assuming that > Herjofsnes gowns came before the princess seam? yes. > http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5923/ > cloth/herjol38.html > > (thanks again Marc) I interpret the seam between the center front > panel and the side panel as a princess seam that ends at the > armhole. Ah, I see. Hmmmm. Well I suppose that could be left to interpretation. But see, that seam is completely under the arm. A princess seam goes over the breast. Alway. It might end at either the armhole or the shoulder but it *always* goes over the breast. None of the seams in the Herjolfenes dress do that. They are all under the arm. > So if I take the view that Herjofsnes picked up some of their design > ideas from the continent and reflect the style a few years behind > the rest of Europe (I know, this is speculation and may not be the > case), can I assume that a cotehardie of say 1365 might have been > done in panels and used a princess seam? Nope. Not princess seams. Not that I can tell anyway. > Are my assumptions too wild, my eras off, or maybe my definition > of a cotehardie not quite right? I believe the Elizabeth Crowfoot, > Clothing and Textiles book shows the Herjofsnes diagram as a > plausible construction for a cotehardie; however I don't have my > references with me. The confusion lies, you were right, with a definition of the princess seam. Once you see that the seams in the gowns you mention are *not* princess seams things become clearer I hope. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 16:14:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02703 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:14:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26982; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:31:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA13090 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:25:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13022 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:24:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (d-ma-superpop-1-77.ici.net [207.180.41.77]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA16701 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:24:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909222124.RAA16701@bajor.ici.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:24:48 -0400 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id PAA13081 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Irene leNoir >> However, I've recently heard a good argument for a 4-piece cut with inset >> gores for this style of gown. > >I am in agreement with Irene here. I, too, use the 4 piece cut with inset >gores. I would love to hear your argument for this Irene! Well, it wasn't my argument, it was Robin Netherton's. Quoted below (with her permission) is the relevant passage from a private conversation. -------------------- I use a plain four-piece construction with gores. I've actually found a picture or two that show those seam lines, too -- front, back, and two sides, nothing else. There's a bit of a trick to cutting the neck and the armholes so you have flexibility in certain directions, and the result is that the dress raises the breasts high up. You also get incredible elastic-like tension on the neckline that holds it right against the body, no gapping or "falling out." It's a logical cut that doesn't require introduction/justification of any new pieces (it's the standard tunic pattern just tarted up with shaping on the seam lines). I've found that simply by increasing the degree of shaping on these seam lines, I can replicate the various stages in the slow development of fitting over the course of the 14th century. In other words, I can start from an unfitted gown of 1320, alter the cut slightly and get the gown of 1350, alter it a little more and get the gown of 1380, etc. Except for the introduction of the set-in sleeve (about 1320) and the center front opening, none of the changes are major, just incremental to what came before. I like finding progressions like that; I think they make a lot more sense than introducing fundamentally new cuts. It's also very exciting to discover the points at which a seemingly small change in an existing cut (as little as a half-inch increase in a curve, sometimes) creates a significant change in the finished look. The initial assumption of the modern observer is typically that there's a whole new construction, but it's far more logical that it would be just a tiny (but key) change on existing methods. Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 16:15:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02708 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:15:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27129; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:32:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA13506 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:26:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bajor.ici.net (bajor.ici.net [207.180.0.58]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13494 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:26:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (d-ma-superpop-1-77.ici.net [207.180.41.77]) by bajor.ici.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id RAA16752 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:26:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909222126.RAA16752@bajor.ici.net> Subject: H-COST: Cotehardie vs. Kirtle (and other costuming terms) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:26:48 -0400 x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Irene leNoir To: "H-Costume" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id PAA13499 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Irene leNoir In the thread about the 14th century gown, Merouda wrote: >The first problem is that none of you are talking about a cotehardie. The >'kirtles' you are referring to came along 40-50 years later. Minimum. Just >to clarify that. As far as I can tell cotehardies were a four panel dress, >no princess seams what so ever. This touches on something that's been bugging me for quite a while now. Ever since I first saw these two words, I've seen them used interchangeably. Every time I've tried to track down an "official" definition, I've been unable to find any source that I considered reliable or authoritative. If I were to ask ten people to define "kirtle" and "cotehardie", I'd likely get twenty different defintions. And this phenomenon isn't just for these two words. I've encountered it for other costuming terms as well. (Although - darn it! - I can't think of an example right now.) So I'm wondering, where do people get their definitions from? Is there a costuming text out there somewhere that lists the terms, defines them, and states its rationale and the roots of the words? Jessica Clark SCA: Irène leNoir irene@ici.net http://home.ici.net/~beowulf/jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 16:32:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02737 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:32:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00644; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:50:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA18395 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:45:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18387 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:45:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-238-187.s187.tnt2.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.238.187]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA29680 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:46:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002601bf0545$3c89a840$bbee7ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <199909222124.RAA16701@bajor.ici.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:55:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > -Poster: Irene leNoir > > >> However, I've recently heard a good argument for a 4-piece cut with inset > >> gores for this style of gown. > > So what does one say to the garb snarks who say that the 10 gore greenland gown is the only authentic cut for a cotehardie. I'm assuming they are using this cut because although the garment it quite tight and very fitted, it does have the same number of seams and gores. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 16:33:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02741 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:33:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00649; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:50:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA18331 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:45:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.greatbasin.net (mail.greatbasin.net [207.228.35.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18316 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:45:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dfenwick (virt228.virtual.state.nv.us [167.154.2.28]) by mail.greatbasin.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA25004 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:45:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00d501bf0543$82856070$fe0110ac@akc.state.nv.us> From: "Dan Fenwick" To: References: <199909222126.RAA16752@bajor.ici.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Cotehardie vs. Kirtle (and other costuming terms) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:43:27 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Dan Fenwick" > So I'm wondering, where do people get their definitions from? Is there a > costuming text out there somewhere that lists the terms, defines them, > and states its rationale and the roots of the words? If you read "Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince" you'll find that there were different names for each type of garment in different countries, and sometimes different names used by different people keeping records in the same country. Also, the same name might apply to different garments at different times. So, I'm afraid you aren't likely to get a good, standard set of terms and definitions, unfortunately. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 16:42:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02774 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:42:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02971; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:00:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA20553 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:55:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-out1.apple.com (mail-out1.apple.com [17.254.0.52]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA20546 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:55:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailgate2.apple.com ([17.129.100.225]) by mail-out1.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14894 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:55:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scv3.apple.com (scv3.apple.com) by mailgate2.apple.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:55:39 -0700 Received: from [17.202.21.54] (decaga.apple.com [17.202.21.54]) by scv3.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA28241 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:55:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909222155.OAA28241@scv3.apple.com> Subject: H-COST: organ pipe pleats: a plea from the confused Date: Wed, 22 Sep 99 14:55:32 -0700 x-sender: gdecamp@shell12.ba.best.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Gail DeCamp To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gail DeCamp Hi Julie! Please help... I'm still confused... do you have a line drawing of this on your website? I'd really really love to see a picture! 1) When you say the pleat is pinched, do you mean you physically pinch it, or is that a tailoring term? This part I can picture, I think: >Organ pipe pleats are done on a garment cut as gores or in the round. Each >pleat is pinched and sewn on the inside vertically from waist to hem in the >most precise garments and at least 6-8" from the waist in the women's >gowns. Each pleat is held in place by stay tapes tacked to the inside of >the garment. Each organ pipe pleat is a set size. but in this part, what do you mean by "there is no depth to it"? Does that mean that the pleat is like a knife pleat that lies flat against the waistband? >The skirt is sewn to the >ribbon or band in similar to cartridge pleating, but each pleat is wider >and has a slight curve and there is no depth to it. The skirt is almost >flat when attached to the band, except for each pinch between pleats, so it >falls without a ledge to the top of the skirt into a more conical form. thanks! Gail _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 16:49:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02788 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:49:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04041; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:06:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA22038 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:02:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22030 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:02:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id PAA07680; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E95258.EDA76282@serv.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:04:09 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress References: <199909222124.RAA16701@bajor.ici.net> <002601bf0545$3c89a840$bbee7ad1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > So what does one say to the garb snarks who say that the 10 gore greenland > gown is the only authentic cut for a cotehardie. Too piss off. *GGG* Ooops sorry, bad language. I would ask them for their definitive documentation because you are desperate need of some. *GGGG* All I know is that no matter which costume book *of good repute* I have read re: kirtles and cotehardies, cotehardies are always the 14th century gown with very obvious details to their 'silhouette' and I have never seen a gown referred to in the 15th century past say 1415 as a cotehardie. Also, just because a book says something, my eyes and experience tell me that they aren't always right. Just because the author is an archaeologist doesn't mean they've actually made a gown and then worn it to see how it all works. > I'm assuming they are > using this cut because although the garment it quite tight and very fitted, > it does have the same number of seams and gores. But that gown doesn't have tight buttoned sleeves and no lacing or buttons to get in and out of it. There is no way that gown could fit as tight as a cotehardie does because the Greenland Gowns all have to come of the head and shoulders. And I have seen no evidence that these extant gowns have the same number of seams and gores. What are you comparing the Greenland Gowns too that has the same number of gores and seams? Now, mind you, I probably have not seen all the evidence. And some day we might be fortunate to have some more. But I have spent two obsessive years in the University of Washington Libraries researching 14th century clothing, particularly cotehardies, and that is what I have come up with so far. No extant cotehardies. If I'm not mistaken Henk agrees with me on that one. *G* And he's halfway around the world! Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 16:50:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02800 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:50:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04243; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:07:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA22346 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:03:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from email.boisestate.edu (email.boisestate.edu [132.178.16.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22324 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:03:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cobfac.boisestate.edu (cobfac.boisestate.edu [132.178.51.3]) by email.boisestate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13376 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:04:56 -0600 Message-Id: <199909222204.QAA13376@email.boisestate.edu> Received: from COBFAC/SpoolDir by cobfac.boisestate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 22 Sep 99 16:03:04 -0700 Received: from SpoolDir by COBFAC (Mercury 1.44); 22 Sep 99 16:02:52 -0700 From: "Linda Yordy" Organization: College of Business & Economics To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:02:46 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Princess seam/14th century Dress Priority: normal In-reply-to: <37E943A3.562FC502@serv.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Linda Yordy" > >I interpret the seam between the center front > > panel and the side panel as a princess seam that ends at the > > armhole. > > But see, that seam is completely under the arm. A > princess seam goes over the breast. Alway. Ok, that makes since. Part of what defines the princess line is placement. So you can have a cotehardie made from 10 panels, but the seams are not the curvy, down the center of the breast type. OK, I'm off to revise my 10-panel pattern . . . or maybe create a new 4-panel pattern ;-) Thanks! Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 16:56:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02804 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:56:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05489; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:13:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA23727 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:09:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com (imo22.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23720 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:09:21 -0600 (MDT) From: Fopdejour1@aol.com Received: from Fopdejour1@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ZWSa25662 (3949) for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:39:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:39:02 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Houppelande To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 9 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Fopdejour1@aol.com In a message dated 9/22/99 4:20:50 PM !!!First Boot!!!, scapreel@tip.nl writes: << If you study portaits from the 12th-15th > centuries you can see the evolution of this garment. IMO houppelandes came into being in the second half of the 14th c. I suppose they are a follow-up of the gardecorps/supertotus type of overcoat, which can be traced to ca 1250 or a bit earlier. But 12th c; I don't think so. Henk >> Where did the guardecorp come from? It evolved from a garment that pre-existed it etc. etc. etc. I spoke of evolution, and the reason I chose the 12th century as a recomended starting point is that I know there is portraiture of Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine in loose fitting garments that somewhat resemble a houppelande. I did not mean to imply that the houppeande started coming into being in the 12th century, but then again in a manner of speaking...I guess it was in the process. I ask that you please excuse my failure to adequately clarify what I meant. Charels _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 16:57:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02808 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:57:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA05862; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:15:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24134 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:11:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24128 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:11:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p16.directcon.net [206.170.184.65]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA18444 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:11:31 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:11:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199909222211.PAA18444@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson >So what does one say to the garb snarks who say that the 10 gore greenland >gown is the only authentic cut for a cotehardie. Well, my favorite thing to say to garb snarks is "Who died and made you Janet Arnold?" However, to be more politic, you might try "Perhaps you are unaware that there are a number of theorys as to what constitutes a cotehardie", and them blast them with bibliographies, page numbers, footnotes, references, obscure articles, contempory references, thread counts, electron microscope examinations....Documentation can be tedious, but it's very satisfying when used against the Costume Police. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 16:59:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02812 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:59:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06165; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:17:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24641 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:12:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24635 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:12:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id PAA08115; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:13:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E954DF.558EB65F@serv.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:14:56 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Princess seam/14th century Dress References: <199909222204.QAA13376@email.boisestate.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Ok, that makes since. Part of what defines the princess line is > placement. So you can have a cotehardie made from 10 panels, > but the seams are not the curvy, down the center of the breast type. > > OK, I'm off to revise my 10-panel pattern . . . or maybe create a > new 4-panel pattern ;- Great! And, personally? I would call it a version of the Greenland Gown. There's no shame in calling it what it is, a replica of the Herjolfnes Gown #41 or #38 (or whichever one you use). In fact, I would consider that a thing to be proud of. But I still wouldn't call it a cotehardie. *shrug* That's just me. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 17:01:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02823 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:01:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA06416; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:18:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24899 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:14:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24889 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:14:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990922221410.JVDL13005.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:14:10 -0700 Message-ID: <37E95451.86E2F2E1@home.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:12:33 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling References: <3.0.3.32.19990922124611.006a4ce0@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> <37E9093D.E1C8FFC6@serv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent I, for one, hit consignment stores & thrift shops (which abound in Nashville!) because it's the only way I can get Gap, Old Navy etc and silk/linin etc in my price range. My favorite is the Goodwill Warehouse where I can buy a loooot of silk because all the clothes are $1.27 a *pound*. We have tons of places to put clothes in for consignment and Goodwill, Salvation Army, ARP and Disabled Vets all collect clothes (and some even come to your door!). I tend to take mine & the kids clothes to the Women's Shelter. Some women leave a bad situation with only the clothes on their backs or have nothing suitable for wearing to job interviews or business jobs. They also like getting any kitchen items and furniture (they help set up women in new apartments). I'll probably get around to my mending some day... probably right after I track down where the heck my Girl Scout Leader notebook has gone!! Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 17:18:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02851 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:18:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08628; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:36:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA28768 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:31:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com (ms3.phoenix.com [134.122.1.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA28760 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:31:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:38:21 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Charles de Blois Pourpoint pattern Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:30:21 -0700 Message-ID: <000101bf054a$0f3abe10$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" >Well, my favorite thing to say to garb snarks is "Who died and made you Janet Arnold?" ROFL! In Naomi Tarrant's book "Development of Costume", she has a rough line drawing of the Charles de Blois Pourpoint pattern. She references a circa 1929? article where someone took a pattern. Has anyone seen this source? Is it of reasonable quality to use for a pattern template? I'm not expecting JArnold or JHunnniset contruction details, but I would like some idea of where the ease is (if any), where and what shaping materials to use and a picture of the back contruction. I'd love to see something drafted from the original garment or contemporary pourpoint. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 17:21:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02857 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:21:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09005; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:39:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA29433 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:34:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bigred.unl.edu (00217146@bigred.unl.edu [129.93.1.7]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29413 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:34:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (00217146@localhost) by bigred.unl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA02126 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:39:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:39:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling In-Reply-To: <00bc01bf0530$2ff7c7c0$736ffea9@gunsafes> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Emma Elizabeth Lehman <00217146@bigred.unl.edu> Not all that long ago, when I was in high school, it was. Cheap was *in*, from thrift stores to K-mart. Granted, the trend that started this wasn't so much "retro" as "grunge", but kids do have at least a little sense. On the other hand, as I do most of my fabric and clothing shopping at thrift stores, I would encourage all those with tastes similar to mine in my area to *shop elsewhere* and leave all the great bargans and stellar finds to me! ;> Emma, the vintage-clothes-wearing, hand-me-down-accepting, cheap packrat (who just recieved a box of clothes from the closet of the mother of a friend of her fathers, because word has gotten around that "Emma likes old clothes") > You would think, that with all this 'retro' in style, more kids would think > that thrift strores were the in thing. > Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 17:30:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02877 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:30:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10083; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:47:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01299 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:42:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01288 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:42:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id IAA12437 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:12:51 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA10067; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:20:23 +0930 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:20:16 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling In-Reply-To: <00bc01bf0530$2ff7c7c0$736ffea9@gunsafes> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Michelle wrote: > > You would think, that with all this 'retro' in style, more kids would think > that thrift strores were the in thing. Grunge is dying out I think. About three years agon when my sister was still at uni' she used to get compliments from her friends about a jumper she had. It had belonged to my dad (and therefore was about five sizes too big for her), had faded to a sort of generic grey, and was unravelling at the sleeves. They thought it was fabulous. Around then there were two or three stores in the city centre alone that sold old seventies clothes etc (and I'm not talking op shops), now there is one and I think that is closing down. There has been, however, an upsurge in 'Recycled Fashion' shops, selling second-hand high fashion clothing (ladies suits etc), which are still too expensive for students to shop at but cheaper than buying designer stuff brand new. When I was an undergrad I used to shop at op shops all the time, basically because I couldn't afford to buy a piece of clothing if it cost more than $5-10 (and of course, I liked the retro stuff). And when I was a kiddie hand-me-downs were the order of the day, although, being the eldest I guess I didn't suffer so much than that. There were five of us you see, so even my brothers got handed down unisex clothes like romper suits, jumpers, wellington boots, shirts, coats. and, of course, being a shrimp (even when I was a kiddie) I could wear stuff longer (I had a jumper marked 2-4 that I was still wearing when I was 10). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 17:39:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02891 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:39:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA11332; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:57:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA03481 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:52:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03466 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:52:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA20213 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:49:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <018b01bf054d$85f7e660$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:55:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings-- >So what does one say to the garb snarks who say that the 10 gore greenland >gown is the only authentic cut for a cotehardie. I'm assuming they are >using this cut because although the garment it quite tight and very fitted, >it does have the same number of seams and gores. I say this: Just because we're lucky to have a surviving garment that shows this cut does not automatically mean the same cut was used all over Europe during the entire "cotehardie period." I'd ask those same folks this: the GG does not have buttons or lacing down the front, yet we have plenty of pictoral evidence of same. What do they make of that? The GG is *an* authentic 14th century piece of clothing. It's not *the* authentic 14th century piece of clothing. And if you look at some of the ways of patterning that went before, the four panel gown with gores is a logical evolution. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 18:14:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02913 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:14:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17240; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:31:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10148 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:26:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10077 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:26:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.101] (ell140.acadia.net [205.217.218.195]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA19428 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:35:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:24:52 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: terminology Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> Why don't you just start with the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), and be done with it ? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 18:18:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02917 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:18:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17792; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:36:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA11139 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:31:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11121 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:31:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem26.fred.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.154] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11TvrP-0001T3-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:31:40 +0100 Message-ID: <002c01bf0552$a457d520$b5065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <199909222124.RAA16701@bajor.ici.net> <002601bf0545$3c89a840$bbee7ad1@pavilion> Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:31:08 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "LDMundy" > -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > > > So what does one say to the garb snarks who say that the 10 gore greenland > gown is the only authentic cut for a cotehardie. I'm assuming they are > using this cut because although the garment it quite tight and very fitted, > it does have the same number of seams and gores. > Andrea Well don't send them to this list ; they are already starting to breed here and finding new ways of virtual snarking. You can always ask them how easy it is to hoik for purposes of nature and then ask them what they use instead of toilet tissue. Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 18:20:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02923 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:20:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18099; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:37:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA11499 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:33:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA11491 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:33:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-214-68.s322.tnt3.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.214.68]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id TAA21033 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:33:21 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001801bf0554$3f677600$44d67ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <199909222124.RAA16701@bajor.ici.net> <002601bf0545$3c89a840$bbee7ad1@pavilion> <37E95258.EDA76282@serv.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:43:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" What are you comparing the Greenland Gowns too that > has the same number of gores and seams? Now, mind you, I probably have not > seen all the evidence. There are a handfull of women in my area that wear what I would call cotehardies, very tightly fitted through the waist or hips with tons of buttons down the front and up each arm. All these women must be using the same pattern, a rectangle for front and back with a gore in the center and the sides all 4 panels. It looks like a very tight version of the greenland gown. Some of these women are laurels. Some of the others I have overheard snarking when they see someone wearing a tight cotehardie-like garment using any other pattern. I just assumed that this was the only authentic cut for this dress and have hesitated making them since the greenland cut doesn't work for my figure. I have thrown out more than a few muslin mock-ups trying it. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 18:24:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02927 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:24:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA18670; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:41:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA12259 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:37:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12249 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:37:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem66.barney.pol.co.uk ([195.92.7.66] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11TvxA-00043T-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:37:36 +0100 Message-ID: <003201bf0553$7915f5d0$b5065cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: terminology Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:37:06 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "LDMundy" > > -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) > > < costuming text out there somewhere that lists the terms, defines them, > and states its rationale and the roots of the words?>> > > Why don't you just start with the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), and be > done with it ? I think we will have to start with something a little simpler, and build up gradually. Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 18:30:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02933 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:30:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19544; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:48:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13397 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:43:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13392 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:43:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id QAA11788; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:44:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E96A2A.EA30EBF7@serv.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:45:46 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress References: <199909222124.RAA16701@bajor.ici.net> <002601bf0545$3c89a840$bbee7ad1@pavilion> <002c01bf0552$a457d520$b5065cc3@herimats> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Well don't send them to this list ; they are already starting to breed here > and finding new ways of virtual snarking. Just curious why you would say that. Most strong opinions on this list are always stated as such. It's extremely rare for folks to be mean here. At least so I thought. Although because it *is* such a difficult medium to communicate in, maybe one persons ceiling is another persons floor. :) > You can always ask them how easy it is to hoik for purposes of nature and > then ask them what they use instead of toilet tissue. That's a good one. *G* -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 18:33:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02937 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:33:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19851; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:50:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA13817 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:46:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13805 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:46:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-63-38.s38.tnt3.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.63.38]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id TAA03917 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:46:06 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001901bf0554$442f3740$263faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <00bc01bf0530$2ff7c7c0$736ffea9@gunsafes> <37E92FE1.EE39A55A@thibault.org> Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:43:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" I don't know about you all Goodwill stores but ours are very clean, the clothes are very organized, have some displays, and the clothes are sorted by color or patterns (floral, plaids, and colors are on separate racks). I ran in the store today with sweat pants and a sweater on and felt I was under dressed for the store. The customers were in suits or nice outfits. When I was leaving, I passed a very well dressed lady who just got out of her BMW. My recylcing stories... I grew up on second hand clothes, other than the ones I made. My kids have been raised on second hand clothes. When my boys reach about 16, they go to the teenage trendy stores, but they have to buy their own clothes. This lasts about two years, then they go back to the thrift stores on their own. My oldest son, 22 y.o. (we call him Mr. Fashion) shops only at thrift stores or the clearance racks. He has the gift of coordinating clothes like you wouldn't believe. He even coordinates his girlfriend's wardrobe. BUT... many people don't know this, but my son does this all the time, you can bargain down the prices at thrift stores. My oldest has bringing down the price to a science. He even bargains down the dept. stores. He truely has a gift for this. I saw him bargaining people down at garage sales when he was nine years old. This son and his girlfriend search the ads for friends and family who want to buy used cars. This is their hobby. Then he goes with them to bargain the car price with the seller. Sometimes, if it is a friend of a friend, he charges a commission or finder's fee. Can you tell he is a business major? Since I was a merchandising major, I have taught all my kids about markup and how far someone is willing to markdown but still make a profit. Last night, my 16 y.o. son, bought a VCR from KMart. I stood beside him and watched what he did. I never said a word. The VCR orginally cost $149. He talked them down to $129 because the box was opened. He told them that Circuit City has a policy about open boxes, and did KMart want to match CC policy. Then he pulled the VCR out of the box and saw a small scratch on it. He bought the VCR for $119. My 7 y.o. daughter, Katie, and her girlfriends swap clothes all the time. They can't wait for one another to out grow their clothes, because they pass them down. It is really funny, because they look at it as an honor to get to wear their older friends clothes. They also swap Barbie clothes. Recently one of her friends had a birthday. I asked Katie why don't we buy her friend some Barbie clothes. She said, "We don't BUY Barbie clothes. We swap them or make them. We buy new Barbies, so they have more friends." I think our attitude toward recycling clothes has a lot to do with the way you are raised. I came from a large family (8 kids), everything was used. As a child, I thought we were rich because I had so many clothes and other kids wore the same five outfits all the time. Believe me, we were not on the rich side. I have a large family (6 kids) and we have the tradition of passing clothes down. Our society has become such a throw away society. Clothing is made to last more than one season. A pair of my daughter's shorts is in an exhibit at the Valentine Museum. The shorts has been worn by four little girls, and the shorts still look new! Each of the previous owners (the little girls) have been to the exhibit and said, "There are our shorts in the window." Yes, we retired those flowered biker shorts to a museum! So now, those shorts have a fifth owner. If you think about it almost all the items in museum collections are hand-me-downs and most of the time, they got them for free! The history behind the clothes is what makes them more valuable. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 18:37:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02941 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:37:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20431; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:55:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA14683 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:51:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14677 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:51:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id QAA12079; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:51:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E96BE5.7489AC67@serv.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:53:09 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress References: <199909222124.RAA16701@bajor.ici.net> <002601bf0545$3c89a840$bbee7ad1@pavilion> <37E95258.EDA76282@serv.net> <001801bf0554$3f677600$44d67ad1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > There are a handfull of women in my area that wear what I would call > cotehardies, very tightly fitted through the waist or hips with tons of > buttons down the front and up each arm. All these women must be using the > same pattern, a rectangle for front and back with a gore in the center and > the sides all 4 panels. It looks like a very tight version of the greenland > gown. And very probably is. :) But I suspect the lacings make it tight. The Greenland Gowns don't have lacing. At least not the ones that have been found so far. Only time will tell. > Some of these women are laurels. Most laurels I know are wonderful informed and well researched in their fields so I would never presume to say one way or the other about their opinions. I would just state mine until they procuced something better. I am always hoping to find something better. Maybe, since you have such a good source, you could ask and pass on the info?? Pretty please? > Some of the others I have overheard > snarking when they see someone wearing a tight cotehardie-like garment using > any other pattern. I just assumed that this was the only authentic cut for > this dress and have hesitated making them since the greenland cut doesn't > work for my figure. I have thrown out more than a few muslin mock-ups > trying it. The Laurel's (for those not familiar with the SCA, a Laurel is considered a Master/Mistress at their particular skill/forum, it don't get any better than that in our Society) in our neck of the woods are usually very forthcoming with information and willing to help. Questions are always welcome for the most part. After all, one of the things they get to do once being made a Laurel, is to teach. Might you consider asking them? Like I said earlier, I have run out of what I can find here at the University of Washington. If there's more out there, I would *love* to know. These men and women are wonderful source and from what I can tell, if you approach them with the aura of willingness to learn and they can help you, they will. If they can't, they'll probably know someone who can. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Bornover Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 18:48:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02958 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:48:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21518; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:05:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA16144 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:59:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scn4.scn.org (scn4.scn.org [209.63.95.149]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA16136 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:59:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from scn.org (bd927@scn [209.63.95.146]) by scn4.scn.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA15005 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:03:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (bd927@localhost) by scn.org (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA09788 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:03:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Susan Courney X-Sender: bd927@scn To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Turn of the century clothing Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Courney Hi, During a recent Y2K discussion, someone said, "why not just let the century go back to 1900? We get to do the century over and maybe we could get it right this time". I disagreed (hey, I like being able to vote) but did come up with the bright idea of being personally non-y2k compliant and reverting to 1900's clothing. For a couple of days at least. Which brings up a couple of questions. A while back -- several months at least -- there was a discussion about a corset maker back east who might still make the early century corsets. The pink/peach one that goes from under the breasts to the hips. Did anyone ever contact them and did you get a response? I have been looking at various 1900s catalogs, fashion magazine and pattern reprints. Were Shirtwaists always black or white? Did they have mix and match combinations like we do now, or were the skirt and jacket always the same fabric? I have some nice navy blue twill that will work well for a suit (jacket and skirt combination). I also have some silk navy blue and white checked fabric (about 4 yds) that matches perfectly. If I can't use it for a waist, could I do a second skirt? And mix and match? Does anyone have a good source for a base for making the large hats? We've discussed Gone with the wind in terms of victorian costumes, but this is later. Is the burgundy and feather gown she wears remotely period? http://www.lib.utexas.edu/hrc/DOS/GWTW/wardrobe/ballgown/ball.html There is a pattern out there for this dress, has anyone made it? How about the green dressing gown? http://www.lib.utexas.edu/hrc/DOS/GWTW/wardrobe/dressinggown/drgown.html pretty, but is it victorian? Thanks for your help Susan Courney _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 19:01:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02987 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:01:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23180; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:18:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18720 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:14:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18705 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:14:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.9] (sdts10-9.znet.net [207.167.66.9]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id RAA15419 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:14:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37E84EEC.F0C2F5AD@home.com> References: <37E812C6.108702@asu.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 10:36:17 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Mid 19th Century Little Boy Clothes Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >The Adjutant's Office wrote: >> >> Can anyone recommend a pattern for a Civil War era-ish outfit for a >> little boy? I realize that a three year old boy would probably be >> still be in skirts, but I don't know that I'll be able to get him to >> put another dress on, so I'm looking for something along the lines of >> a sailor suit. My sewing ability is moderate and I can't draft my own >> patterns, so I am hoping someone out there has done the work for me! >> >> Any suggestions, on-or-off list, will be very gratefully received! I've seen decent boys patterns available from sewing stores that cater to french Heirloom sewers, ribbon embroiderers and smockers. Usually they are demo'd in cottons, but if you change the outfit to a light wool, they would work fine. They even have the little shorts buttoning to the top. Its not too hard to make a wool sailor's hat, but there are patterns shown in Workwomen's Guide. There are also a variety of children's frocks that you could adapt if you have someone who can pattern them out for you. I've graded a few of them up directly on the fabric (so I don't have any patterns, sorry), and they work fine. Your son is probably too small yet, but I've cut one of the Greek fishermen's hats down for my 6 yr old and it looked pretty good. Most of the mid century kids seem to wear striped socks, so I found some women's socks with a horizontal stripe that looked like the pictures and sewed the tube down and the foot smaller (I don't knit). It looked just right. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 19:03:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02997 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:02:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23438; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:20:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19127 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:16:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19112 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:16:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p8.directcon.net [206.170.184.57]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA00667 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:16:36 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:16:36 -0700 Message-Id: <199909230016.RAA00667@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 07:43 PM 09/22/1999 -0400, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > >I don't know about you all Goodwill stores but ours are very clean, the >clothes are very organized, have some displays, and the clothes are sorted >by color or patterns This is one of the reasons I hate shopping at Goodwill!!! I don't know about the rest of you, but I rarely go shopping thinking, "hey, I think I'll buy something RED today, never mind waht it is or what size". Or are the ones near you organized within those color blocks? The ones I've gone to aren't: red blouses, vests, skirts, sweaters, all neatly arranged on a rack with no attention to size at all. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 19:37:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03138 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:37:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26975; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:54:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA23743 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:48:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23734 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 18:48:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id RAA16177 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:44:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37E97882.230A7B9C@best.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 17:46:58 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Turn of the century clothing References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press Susan Courney wrote: > > > I have been looking at various 1900s catalogs, fashion magazine and > pattern reprints. Were Shirtwaists always black or white? Did they have > mix and match combinations like we do now, or were the skirt and jacket > always the same fabric? I have some nice navy blue twill that will work > well for a suit (jacket and skirt combination). I also have some silk > navy blue and white checked fabric (about 4 yds) that matches perfectly. > If I can't use it for a waist, could I do a second skirt? And mix and > match? Most commonly, from about 1900 to 1910 (which I assume are about the years you're thinking of) shirtwaists to be worn as separates were white, ecru (lace), or black. However, other colors and patterns were worn, including checks, stripes, and plaids. For suits the jacket and skirt usually matched, but again not always. Suits were most commonly made in some versatile, conservative color; any fabric pattern (such as a tweed) was usually subdued. There were also dresses of a patterned fabric, such as printed floral cottons, where the bodice and skirt were made separately, but matched and were worn together. Such matching dresses were often also called "suits," but the term is confusing to modern people who think of a suit as a jacket plus skirt or pants. Navy was a popular suit color, and the combination you are suggesting is really pretty conservative, so I think it would be fine. We published two books of women's clothing patterns that together cover the years from 1900 through 1909. Details are on our web site: http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Fran Grimble _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 20:26:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03186 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:26:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01735; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:44:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA01024 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:40:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01015 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:40:11 -0600 (MDT) From: HighlndLss@aol.com Received: from HighlndLss@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6DYV0tLDLv (4509) for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37af1360.251aded6@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:39:34 EDT Subject: H-COST: New Book To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: HighlndLss@aol.com Dear List Members, I was wondering if anyone has seen the new book, called Costume Close-up, by Linda Baumgarten, Florine Carr, and John Watson. I am told that it consists of clothing patterns from the Colonial Williamsburg collections. I am most interested in obtaining this book. I heard of it's pending publication over a year ago, and have still not seen a copy anywhere. Has anyone on this list any information pertaining to this publication? And especially where it can be found. Thanks for your assistance. Susan K. (18th century reenactor) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 20:43:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03205 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:43:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03615; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:00:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA03409 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:56:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA03402 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:56:02 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6YAWa22369 (4425) for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:54:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <473ac534.251ae26a@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:54:50 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: New Book To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com I'm not sure if it is actually available yet, but it is listed in the current catalogue (that I just got today) of the Quite Specific Media Group, which includes Drama Books. The book is Costume Close Up, ISBN 0-89676-226-2, selling for $24.95, with availability in September. You can reach the company at info@quitespecificmedia.com. Website is www.quitespecificmedia.com. As soon as someone actually sees the book, please give us a report! Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 21:00:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03246 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:00:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05335; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:18:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA05970 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:13:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05961 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:13:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.3.23.212]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990923021343.LZGF29344.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@home.com> for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:13:43 -0700 Message-ID: <37E98CD7.B9372010@home.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:13:43 -0400 From: Liz /cozit Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Rolled pleats...?? References: <199909221619.KAA25960@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Liz /cozit Ok...I've been following the pleating threads, and when I first hit the rolled pleats thread, I *thought* I knew what they'd look like when finished. I've come to the conclusion that I definitely don't (at least not if they're wider than about 1/4 inch). I just can't picture the end result and how the material would fall. Does anyone out there have a URL for a picture of a garment that used rolled pleats? Thanks, -Elisabeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 21:07:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03272 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:07:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06017; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:25:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA06877 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:20:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06870 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:20:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.132] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11TyUw-0001MH-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:20:39 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:18:09 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19990922124611.006a4ce0@pop.service.ohio-state.ed u> References: <199909221535.RAA15090@worldonline.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 12:46 PM 09/22/1999 -0400, you wrote: -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" >If I were to suggest any of this to my daughter now, she'd have me >institutionalized. Whereas my almost 21 year old loves shopping Goodwill/&c., or having me revamp things. :-) cjc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 21:12:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03285 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:12:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06448; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:29:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA07528 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:24:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07519 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:24:53 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6XRE0cntPv (4155) for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:24:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:24:00 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 9/22/1999 16:46:58 Pacific Daylight Time, penny.creative.outlets@erols.com writes: << The customers were in suits or nice outfits. When I was leaving, I passed a very well dressed lady who just got out of her BMW. My recylcing stories... >> Ok, Penny, are you spying on me? (JK) Since I'm on the West Coast, I doubt it was me, but hey, eerily familiar scenario. Me and my BMW travel to all the "hot" shopping spots and none of them are Neiman Marcus, or as I like to call it "Needless Markup" I have no trouble living on other's "leftovers" - among my best finds, a coral silk suit with the tags still on it reading $275.00 for $21.00! A maroon velvet evening set (dress and overjacket) from sometime in the late forties, early fifties for $20.00. A darling Carol Little dress & jacket for $13. I just can't bring myself to pay retail... unless it's an incredibly luscious slice of silk charmeuse ---- but ready-made clothes, never! angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none: be able for thine enemy rather in power than use, and keep thy friend under thy own life's key: be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech..." W. Shakespeare http://come.to/costumes http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 21:15:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03293 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:15:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA06848; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:33:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA08121 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:29:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08106 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:29:01 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6VEXIcoIu_ (4155) for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:28:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <43ff5ca.251aea4a@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:28:26 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 9/22/1999 17:16:37 Pacific Daylight Time, margo@directcon.net writes: << This is one of the reasons I hate shopping at Goodwill!!! I don't know about the rest of you, but I rarely go shopping thinking, "hey, I think I'll buy something RED today, never mind waht it is or what size". Or are the ones near you organized within those color blocks? The ones I've gone to aren't: red blouses, vests, skirts, sweaters, all neatly arranged on a rack with no attention to size at all. >> Actually, I think some of the thrift stores around me are organized that way, and one of them is a Goodwill. Salvation Army isn't though. Since I'm usually looking for theatrical stuff, I am often looking for a particular color to stick into a costume that needs repair here and there. I'd never really thought about it before. However, no organization defect would keep me from hunting for that particular item of heavily beaded or exquisitely detailed special something I often find. But if you're not into it, it can be tedious and it's certainly tiresome, because you really need to look at everything and double check for holes, flaws, missing buttons, etc. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "If to do were as easy as to know what were good to do, chapels had been churches, and poor men's cottages princes' palaces." The Merchant of Venice, I, ii - William Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 21:20:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03303 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:20:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07587; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:38:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA08824 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:33:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08817 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:33:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990923023356.NIEP13005.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:33:56 -0700 Message-ID: <37E9911F.335A542A@home.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:31:59 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling References: <199909230016.RAA00667@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kat & Kent Margo Anderson wrote: > > > This is one of the reasons I hate shopping at Goodwill!!! I don't > know about the rest of you, but I rarely go shopping thinking, "hey, I > think I'll buy something RED today, never mind waht it is or what > size". Or are the ones near you organized within those color blocks? > The ones I've gone to aren't: red blouses, vests, skirts, sweaters, > all neatly arranged on a rack with no attention to size at all. Around here (Nashville, TN) they're ordered by size and *then* color (and by type, pants; sweaters; ls shirts; etc) except for the Warehouse which has *some* cohesion... but not much! There you have to look through a bazillion racks (well, not really but it takes me 3-5 hours to go through them all) that are only generally sorted by womens', mens' and childrens'. Most of our thrift stores & consignment shops do it that way too (sort by type, size and *then* color, if they do color at all). Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 21:21:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03310 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:21:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA07688; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:39:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA09002 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:35:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA08989 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:34:59 -0600 (MDT) From: HighlndLss@aol.com Received: from HighlndLss@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6OACa07432 (4509) for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:17:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <2bae52e8.251ae7ad@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:17:17 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: New Book To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: HighlndLss@aol.com Thank you Ann for the info, I went to the web page, and even using the search feature it wasn't able to come up with the title. But I sent an e-mail to them and hopefully I will be hearing back soon. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 22:54:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03407 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:54:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15955; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:11:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21064 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:07:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21059 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:07:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.52]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990923040711.BCCP27904.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:07:11 -0700 Message-ID: <37E9A59D.E8D46822@home.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:59:25 -0700 From: Russell Hedges Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Turn of the century clothing References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Russell Hedges Susan Courney wrote: > > -Poster: Susan Courney > > Hi, > > but did come up with the bright idea of being personally non-y2k > compliant and reverting to 1900's clothing. For a couple of days at > least. I can't answer your questions, but I love this idea! I neeed something other than formal clothes for that periode, and showing up at work "Non Y2K compliant" appeals. Great idea. russell Hedges _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 22:56:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA03411 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:56:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA16139; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:13:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21432 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:09:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21414 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:09:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-34.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FIH00EMYVIBC2@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:08:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:08:34 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <37E9A7C2.EE971F17@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199909222214.QAA24911@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marc Carlson <"Andrea Gideon" > >...gown is the only authentic cut for a cotehardie. I'm assuming they >are using this cut because although the garment it quite tight and very >fitted, it does have the same number of seams and gores. "The garment is quite tight and fitted"... Um, really? H-38's owner was a fairly small woman, based on her bones (About 4'6"-4'8" with a waist size of 37" in circumference). "Fitted" yes, but "tightly" fitted is a matter of opinion. H-41 (possibly a man) has a 39.4" circumference. Now we can argue about whether the Greenlanders at the end of 14th century were starving or not, but I think we can be fairly sure that "tubbiness" was not common (I speak as someone with a 42" waist circumference). I think these outfits are supposed to be a bit on the loose side, if for no other reason than insulation. They just have -really- large skirts. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 23:04:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03422 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:04:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17048; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:22:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA22690 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:18:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22674 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:18:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA06799 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:26:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA31371 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:24:47 -0500 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:24:46 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: Re: H-COST: Charles de Blois Pourpoint pattern In-Reply-To: <000101bf054a$0f3abe10$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Cynthia Barnes wrote: > In Naomi Tarrant's book "Development of Costume", she has a rough line > drawing of the Charles de Blois Pourpoint pattern. She references a circa > 1929? article where someone took a pattern. Has anyone seen this source? > Is it of reasonable quality to use for a pattern template? I'm not > expecting JArnold or JHunnniset contruction details, but I would like some > idea of where the ease is (if any), where and what shaping materials to use > and a picture of the back contruction. Blanche Payne has an excellent graphed pattern of this in the back of the FIRST edition of her History of Costume. I don't think it's in the second edition. You might be able to find a copy of the first edition at a library; it's scarce now. My copy is someone's old college text, all marked up and with some pictures cut out, but the patterns intact, hurrah. Combining the pattern with her photo of the front of the pourpoint and a close up of a bit of the inside, and Stella Mary Newton's photo of a different angle in Black Prince, I was able to come up with a pretty credible pourpoint. My most interesting discovery in making that one -- those deep scooped armholes are actually necessary to fit a man with good upper-body musculature. I derived the same cut by working on a muscular man's body, and placing the seams where I needed to accommodate muscle stretching. They ended up falling almost exactly where Charles de Blois' had, though I hadn't intended to replicate the deep armholes when I started -- I was just going to make a close-fitting pourpoint, and found I had to keep cutting in to give him free arm movement that wouldn't rip the back open. This is easier to show in person, I think! It makes sense, then, that you see that "grande assiette" construction almost exclusively on pictures of young noblemen, knights, fighter-types. Not on old, fat, or skinny guys. As for the sleeves themselves, I took one look at the bizarre combination of trangles and curves in the Payne pattern, said "I can make no sense of this," and closed the book. Instead, I draped the fabric over the man's shoulders and arms, laid the bias where I needed stretch and grain where I wanted structure, pinned the fabric to the open cut edge of the armhole, dropped in a gore to fill the triangular space left at the fabric's edge -- and when I took it off and looked at what I had, it was almost exactly the same shape as the Charles de Blois sleeve. OK, so it did make sense after all. The lower sleeve construction I've used before on fitted dresses. It looks odd, but you have to bear in mind that the deep point of that curved V falls at the inside of the elbow, and the larger wings wrap to the outside, over the elbow. I had derived this part of the construction on a body, before I ever saw the Charles de Blois pattern, by fitting fabric around an arm bent at 45 degrees. Why 45 degrees? Because that's the neutral point. If you fit to a straight arm, you won't be able to bend it. If you fit to a tightly bent arm, it wrinkles too much when you straighten it. But I digress. Another tip on the poupoint: I built the lining on the man's body first, then (while he was wearing it), I laid cotton padding over the lining to smooth out and build up the chest. (The man was a little lopsided in build, and he wanted me to even him out. Usually I hear that from women!) I laid on a level of interlining over the padding, tacked the layers down, then upholstered the outer fabric over all the padding. The finished piece fit perfectly smoothly. If I had quilted the fabric while it was flat and then pieced it together, I would have ended up with a lot of internal wrinkles and lumps, I think. Also: Shape the underarm piece of the sleeve very close against the man's underarm, so he can lift his arm up fairly high without hindrance. I've forgotten the rest. It was three years ago, and I haven't made any since. This particular one is probably still walking around the Milwaukee area, though; I made it for a person to wear in the SCA. --Robin, who should be working and not reading h-cost _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 23:05:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03426 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:05:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17172; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:23:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA22825 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:19:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22819 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:19:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-34.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FIH00E4CVYOYK@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:18:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:18:24 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Charles de Blois Pourpoint pattern To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <37E9AA10.9C1E74C1@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199909222359.RAA16173@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marc Carlson <"Cynthia Barnes" > > In Naomi Tarrant's book "Development of Costume", she has a rough line > drawing of the Charles de Blois Pourpoint pattern. She references a >circa 1929? article where someone took a pattern. Has anyone seen this >source? Is it of reasonable quality to use for a pattern template? >I'm not expecting JArnold or JHunnniset contruction details, but I >would like some idea of where the ease is (if any), where and what >shaping materials to use and a picture of the back contruction. Unfortunately, yes. I've seen the work in question. The line drawings, many of which appear to be assumptions based on statuary, visual examination of existing garments, and so on. This is what it seems that the pattern for the Pourpoint is as well (although I'm not changing my web page on it until I get someone who's better at reading French than I am to verify my intrepretation of the text). > I'd love to see something drafted from the original garment or >contemporary pourpoint. Yeah, me too. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 23:11:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03433 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:11:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17609; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:29:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA23841 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:25:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from loki.intrepid.net (IDENT:root@intrepid.net [204.71.127.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23831 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:25:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sue.computercrafters.com (pm3frd1-68-87.intrepid.net [206.102.68.87]) by loki.intrepid.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA10231 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:25:19 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990923002918.007bf620@intrepid.net> X-Sender: sshatto@intrepid.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:29:18 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Sue Shatto Subject: H-COST: seamstress Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sue Shatto For those of you who were looking for a seamstress, I have a friend - Linda Chatfield - who is a costumer with many interesting applications. She has been curator and director of several historical museums, has a company that does historical impressions (she has about six personas at this time), she is an open hearth cook and a silversmith. Every week I learn more of this extroidinary woman's talents. She is not on line quite yet - she did just get the second phone line in and has the computer plugged in. Right now she is between jobs, so this is the perfect time to snag her. Her phone number is 301-223-7406 Cordially, Sue Shatto Sue@VictorianMillinery.com http://www.VictorianMillinery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 23:35:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03455 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:35:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18896; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:53:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA26716 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:48:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26711 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:48:40 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EL64QGUT; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:47:04 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:40:48 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling Message-ID: <19990922.234058.-742475.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-5 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com I am a big ol' fan of thrift stores (a quick check of my closet shows a good portion of my clothing is from thrift stores) and I like them not just for contemporary clothes, they are also a great source of period-ish jewelry and accessories. I sometimes see jewelry which is perfect for my Elizabethans and wonder who would have worn this stuff for 'real'?! Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 23:39:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03459 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:39:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA19165; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:57:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA27246 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:52:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m3.jersey.juno.com (m3.jersey.juno.com [209.67.33.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27241 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:52:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from henninlady@juno.com) by m3.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EL64YES4; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:51:24 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:52:33 -0400 Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Message-ID: <19990923.005331.12966.1.henninlady@juno.com> References: <199909222124.RAA16701@bajor.ici.net> X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2,4,6-7,9-11,18-22 From: Elizabeth Cummins Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Cummins >I use a plain four-piece construction with gores. I've actually >found a picture or two that show those seam lines, too -- front, back, and >two sides, nothing else. There's a bit of a trick to cutting the neck and >the armholes so you have flexibility in certain directions, and the result >is that the dress raises the breasts high up. You also get incredible >elastic-like tension on the neckline that holds it right against the body, >no gapping or "falling out." I'd be interested in seeing a well made 4-piece cotehardie gown. Does anyone have some pictures on a webpage? I've seen some other folks attempt to do this dress and the bustline either comes out squashed, or the front center seam does this unattractive S curve thing at the bustline. Until I see one done well, I'm inclined to stick with my controversial princess line seams (they give me the look I want without the problems mentioned above). Just call me vain... Elizabeth Cummins ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 23:50:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03467 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:50:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20249; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:07:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA28510 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:03:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28495 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:03:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-101.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.101]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA22452 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:03:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990922233411.00a0d8e0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:34:11 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Early 16th cent German Corsetry- In-Reply-To: <000d01bf0435$a9f13bc0$5bc47ad1@pavilion> References: <37E6E37A.EC875C5A@inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Actually an Italian Ren corset does give the right look. The desired >effect is the same, slightly flattened and stuffed uni-boob. Where did you find evidence of an Italian Ren corset? Please share! Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 23:50:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03471 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:50:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20257; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:07:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA28502 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:03:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28484 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:03:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-101.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.101]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA22472 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:03:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990923001259.00a0e470@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:12:59 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Books In-Reply-To: <007001bf0451$d9659b00$5f075cc3@herimats> References: <37E7B137.50E0C381@us.oracle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Amongst many , there is one book that I find very useful for hasty >reference; with such a bad memeory its important to me. >John Peacocks -Costume 1066-1990; It's just pictures with overwritten >short notes ( but it is only UK in most parts) 130?pages at 8 >illustrations per page, broken down into the relevant periods It's >simplistic but quick. Peacock is an interesting overview but, keep in mind the fact that he gets rather creative in inventing new styles and with seam placement. I would only recommend it as a *very* basic starting point. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 22 23:50:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03475 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:50:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20252; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:07:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA28524 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:03:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28511 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:03:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-101.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.101]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id BAA22457 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:03:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990922234150.00a0d8e0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:41:50 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Danielle's (not mine) underthings: Ever After In-Reply-To: <199909211426.IAA29545@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >>And partly because I have never seen any evidence of an early >> 16th century Italian woman wearing a bodice that wasn't attached to a >skirt. > >As Michelle pointed out, Janet Arnold mentions, that underneath the >Eleanora of Toledo satin bodice is a red velvet bodice or 'bodies' that >closed in the front with hooks and eyes. Page 40, illus. #286. (Thanks >again Michelle) True, the Eleanora bodice has been mentioned a couple of times but that is obviously later than the styles we are refering to in this movie. Would it have helped if I had said late 15th/early 16th century Italian? Danielle's stuff actually reminds me of some of the stuff you will see in the paintings of Girhlandio (sp?) and his contemporaries and he is actually 15th century if memory serves. Again, this isn't my area of expertise. >I would especially like to talk to the designer of the movie >'Artemisia'. You can definitely add my vote to that. Now if only we could talk Disney into mass releasing the video so it's not $120. Cheers, Danielle (who finds it strange to be talking about the underwear of someone else with the name) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 00:03:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03486 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:03:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21292; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:20:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA00287 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:16:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00260 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:16:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.29] (sdts10-29.znet.net [207.167.66.29]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id WAA10889 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:16:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990922174315.97733.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 20:25:58 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: 16th cent German-organ pipe pleats Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: "Tara German" > >Okay, considering my name, I think I have to make one of these Cranach >gowns. *G* So if I'm making these organ pipe pleats in the skirt, what's >the math that goes with it? How do I figure the waist circumference before >pleating? For example, if I'm making box pleats the rule of thumb is to >have 3x your waist measurement. What would it be for organ pipes? > >Tara Its a circle cut on the skirt. First you need to decide how wide the top of each pleat will be 1/2"-1 1/2" is the range (I personally prefer about 3/4") and how many pleats will fit on your bodice. (Or you can use the pattern shown in History of Costume by Blanche Payne 1st Edition). Anyway, it starts with the width of the bodice or doublet you are attaching, then add about 3/4" - 1" per pleat. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 00:03:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03490 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:03:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21283; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:20:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA00294 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:16:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00273 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:16:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.29] (sdts10-29.znet.net [207.167.66.29]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id WAA10897 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:16:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909222155.OAA28241@scv3.apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:21:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: organ pipe pleats: a plea from the confused Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: Gail DeCamp > > >Hi Julie! > >Please help... I'm still confused... do you have a line drawing of this >on your website? I'd really really love to see a picture! No, there is one in the History of Costume book I mentioned. It looks like a 1/2 circle representing 1/2 the skirt. The pleats are divided like narrow pieces of a pie. I put in three concentric circles below the waist on my bases, those mark the lines where the tapes are tacked. >1) When you say the pleat is pinched, do you mean you physically >pinch it, or is that a tailoring term? Yes, for each pleat, the skirt is folded on the pleat line, good sides together. A seam is sewn from the waist to the hem. It pinches the fabric into an arc on the outside. (this must be done after lining, banding, decorations, and finishing is completed). The women's gowns are only sewn like this for about 4-8". Inside the skirt, stay tapes are tacked to keep the pleats in place. > >but in this part, what do you mean by "there is no depth to it"? Does that >mean that the pleat is like a knife pleat that lies flat against the >waistband? No, Its really hard to figure out a good wording. What I was meaning is that in comparison to a cartridge pleat, where the edge of the skirt ends up 1/2" thick as it abutts the body, there is no excess fabric in organ pipe pleating, except for the little dip for each pinch. from a Sideways perspective, looking down on the top of the skirt after pinching it should look kind of like this: ( ( ( ( ( ( But each curve has a little seam where they touch edges. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 00:03:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA03494 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:03:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21286; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:20:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA00299 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:16:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA00293 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:16:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.29] (sdts10-29.znet.net [207.167.66.29]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id WAA10906 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:16:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 21:26:41 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: ATTN: Julie Adams/Other Party with Recommendations Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" > > I think I'm finally getting the right mental image, but to be >sure--could you please >give me a few references to pictures that include a gown with organ >pleating, book/url, whatever...except for rare/expensive... :-) Thank you >very much, in advance! Carol Lucas Cranach by Friedlander. There are some organ pipe pleats shown in Vicellio too. There are probably some on the web somewhere, but I'm not a good art searcher. I have some finished waffenrocks showing organ-pipe pleating worn by my husband at my website (none of the women's are organ-pipe pleated and some were cartridge pleated before I realized that wasn't really right.) Look under costumes or pictures. http://www.znet.com/~savaskan/germans/ Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 01:03:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03551 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:03:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25091; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:21:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA06908 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:17:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA06903 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:17:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA08465 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:25:38 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id BAA32122 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:23:48 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:23:47 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress In-Reply-To: <19990923.005331.12966.1.henninlady@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Elizabeth Cummins wrote: > I'd be interested in seeing a well made 4-piece cotehardie gown. Does > anyone have some pictures on a webpage? I've seen some other folks > attempt to do this dress and the bustline either comes out squashed, or > the front center seam does this unattractive S curve thing at the > bustline. Until I see one done well, I'm inclined to stick with my > controversial princess line seams (they give me the look I want without > the problems mentioned above). Are these really "problems," or is it that the "look" you want is one that is considered attractive in the modern view? How are you defining "one done well"? I can't be exactly sure what you're describing, of course, but fitted dresses from 1350-80 often had a "squashed" bustline. (Look at the Guillaume de Machaut manuscripts; there are a couple reprinted in Avril's book on Manuscript Painting at the Court of France. Also look at the brass of Joan de la Pole and other brasses/effigies of this period -- Margaret Scott's Visual History of Costume has a good collection of these.) Later, as necklines dropped and bustlines rose, an "S" curve along the front center seam was quite typical; you can see these in manuscripts too numerous to count, including the Tres Riches Heures. There are other shapes too -- the breasts do a slow creep skyward over the course of 50 years, and the silhouette goes through several distinct shifts. I've achieved this whole range with a succession of minor fitting changes on a basic 4-piece cut. I figured that I had the c. 1400-1415 construction down pat when I found that it put the wearer automatically into a "Gothic slouch" -- that "pregnant" posture you see in the Limbourg Brothers manuscripts and others of that time. This may seem ugly in theory to modern viewers, but it's actually quite attractive in life, even as you're shaking your head wondering why. I remember dressing one woman this way, and she was very upset when she looked in the mirror -- "I look pregnant!" she cried. Her boyfriend came into the room, took one look at her new curves, and said, "I want to make you pregnant!" >From what I've seen, any woman who owns a waist can look good in this style -- but she might not look good in the way she was expecting to. Many people assume that the attraction of that style must be because of the high, prominent mounds of breast. But I watch where the men's eyes go. They're almost always drawn to the hips, and to the curve at the small of the back -- not exactly the places we think of showing off today. On the other hand, it is possible to have an inappropriately "squashed" bust (if I cut my armholes wrong, I sometimes get a bad horizontal pulling right across the middle of the breasts). And the proper S-curve should have the bosom lifted, not dropping. So you may indeed have been seeing a bad fit. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 01:27:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA03569 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 01:27:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25987; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:45:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA09135 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:40:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA09121 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 00:40:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (muon [129.127.36.27]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id QAA15197 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:10:52 +0930 (CST) Received: by pilot.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.61+IDA+MU/UA-5.23) id AA10126; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:18:24 +0930 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:18:17 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@muon To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Robin Netherton wrote: > > I figured that I had the c. 1400-1415 construction down pat when I found > that it put the wearer automatically into a "Gothic slouch" -- that > "pregnant" posture you see in the Limbourg Brothers manuscripts and others > of that time. This may seem ugly in theory to modern viewers, but it's Houppelandes and the appropriate headdresses do this too, largely on account of the weight I've always thought. > actually quite attractive in life, even as you're shaking your head > wondering why. I remember dressing one woman this way, and she was very > upset when she looked in the mirror -- "I look pregnant!" she cried. Her > boyfriend came into the room, took one look at her new curves, and said, > "I want to make you pregnant!" > Hmmmm.....I don't know that I'd take that as a compliment :-P ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 03:38:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA03823 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 03:38:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA00949; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 02:55:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA20291 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 02:50:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA20284 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 02:50:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA17319.; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:56:17 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:49:14 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:49:08 +0100 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Re. Recycling Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id CAA20285 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" I've missed a number of digests due to a problem with our university's e-mail server, including my own post which started the thread on recycling. Actually my comment "and we think recycling is new" was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but I was referring to the fact that, in the UK at least, bins for recycling glass, paper, plastic etc. have appeared in every supermarket car park in recent years. As for clothes, different charities regularly put plastic bags through my front door with requests to leave anything saleable ouitside for collection on a certain day. And, yes, I do sometimes buy clothes from their shops myself. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 05:20:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA00333 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 05:20:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA04296; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:38:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA21761 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:33:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from monsoon.mail.pipex.net (monsoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA21754 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 04:33:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 22046 invoked from network); 23 Sep 1999 10:33:48 -0000 Received: from usern512.uk.uudial.com (HELO ) (193.149.85.37) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 23 Sep 1999 10:33:48 -0000 Message-ID: <37EA4848.413A@dial.pipex.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:33:28 -0700 From: Viv Watkins X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Recycling Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Viv Watkins Cynthia Virtue wrote "I expect it depends how you were raised. I had a friend from England visit, and I suggested going to a used bookstore after dinner, and she was *very* dubious until I reassured her that it was quite reputable, etc. She had a blast." This doesn't fit with my experience of how things are in England. We have lots of "thrift" shops - we call them Charity shops, because they are run by local and national charities to make money for their causes. The small market town where I live has eight different shops all with well laid out and organised stock. Some also sell their own gift items - one has great cheap hat boxes! I love Charity shops. All my best clothes, cheap (often out of print) books, curtains and lengths of fabric, household bits and pieces, come from them - all for a few pence or pounds. I couldn't afford the qaulity clothes that are recycled through these shops if i bought them new. We also have Dress Agencies which will sell second-hand clothes for a small commission - they usually only take the "best" makes and only classic or current styles. You can get designer clothes for a fifth of new prices. Do you have Jumble or Rummage Sales in the US? These are run by small local groups, Scouts, playgroups, etc, to raise funds. Our Scouts collect from house to house (supervised of course) and on the Saturday all the Volunteers (usually Mums) sort the donations into heaps on the Scout Hut tables, charge 20p entrance and sell most of it to an enthusiastic horde for pence! We usually make a hundred or so pounds - enough for a new tent! Those who help sort things out in the morning get first pick! It is the perk you get for taking on the crowds in the afternoon - some of our regular customers have black belts in Jumbling! This is on topic (honest) because I have collected some wonderful antique and retro clothes from these sources. As for second-hand book shops - friends have been known to refuse to shop with me! It's an addiction and one day I will be cured - but not soon! Best wishes. Viv. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 06:59:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00386 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:59:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA07741; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:16:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA00301 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:11:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00296 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:11:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-244-66.s66.tnt4.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.244.66]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA28424 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:11:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000d01bf05bc$6a00efa0$42f4accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Re. Recycling Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:08:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" in the UK at least, bins for recycling glass, paper, plastic etc. have appeared in every supermarket car park in recent years. Sorry for getting off topic but I am curious... I am trying to find out how other countries recyle? Our government (state or local???) hired a company that comes to our home on garbage day and picks up the recyled glass and paper that is in a separate bin. There is not a charge for this service. Is this type of service available in other countries? Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 07:14:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00404 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:14:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA08703; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:32:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA01936 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:27:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA01928 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:27:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem74.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.74] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11U7yY-0001YK-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:27:51 +0100 Message-ID: <007201bf05bf$12fd0f10$65075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: Subject: H-COST: Perhaps you have not been talking to many people Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:27:21 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006D_01BF05C7.5DBECF40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "LDMundy" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006D_01BF05C7.5DBECF40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 07:34:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00442 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:34:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09760; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:52:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA04318 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:48:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04300 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:48:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-214-211.s465.tnt3.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.214.211]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id IAA12764 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:48:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001401bf05c3$46674d80$d3d67ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <199909222214.QAA24911@net.indra.com> <37E9A7C2.EE971F17@utulsa.edu> Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:58:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > -Poster: Marc Carlson > > <"Andrea Gideon" > > >...gown is the only authentic cut for a cotehardie. I'm assuming they > >are using this cut because although the garment it quite tight and very > >fitted, it does have the same number of seams and gores. > > "The garment is quite tight and fitted"... Um, really? > the garment that I'm talking about, the one that is so common in my area, is very tightly fitted. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 07:39:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00471 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:39:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA10174; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:57:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA04985 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:53:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net (mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net [195.92.192.230]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04978 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:53:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from modem26.hulk.pol.co.uk ([195.92.6.26] helo=herimats) by mailrelay1.core.theplanet.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11U8N2-00047a-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:53:09 +0100 Message-ID: <008401bf05c2$9b8237e0$65075cc3@herimats> From: "LDMundy" To: References: <199909221536.RAA15108@worldonline.nl> Subject: Re: H-COST: Books Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:52:39 +0100 Organization: Heritage Matters at Wysewords MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "LDMundy" I am sorry I was so confused by your attempts to disgree that I used a book, or disagreed with something non existent that you read into my post, or whatever it was,that I missed the following/ > > the foreword contains my most favourite of > > quotes:_--- > > "Costume is not a triviality; it is the visible raiment of the soul" > -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" > > I'm sorry, but I find this a bit over the top... No offence; it's Lavers > quote anyway. It reminds me of a certain kind of bogus art-hysterians > (note: I wrote 'bogus', I don't include the real ones!), who don't leave a > stone unturned to promote and mysticise their (in my view; boy, will I get > flamed over this) rather useless occupation.... > > Henk I cant see how anybody can possibly get involved in history and, or costume without having some kind of commitment of the soul. Without being passionate its really impossible to truly understand other people who are passionate. Not having this insight makes it so easy to trivialise the works and interests of so many others, to denigrate their efforts and minimalise their often long frustrating struggles. To dismiss all of these smacks of attempts , reminding me of so many people that I , all too often, meet;-, to be seen as a solitary upholder of all that is undeniably correct. Deity is the singular intention and a very lonely place. Anyone who sees their occupation useless , or who can even tolerate such thought processes, should really take a hold of themselves and attempt to discover an area where they do have some passion and where their input is both welcome and enjoyable, above all the latter. To remain and trample down the willing efforts of others, who wish to give rather than take, and to maintian the passiona and fun of the whole is , to me , I am afraid ; tantamount to a form of fascism. But perhaps on a more down to earth level we can retake the element of fun in our own activities by looking such manifesatations as just being a waste of space. Dave _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 07:43:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00489 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:43:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10388; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:00:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05360 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:56:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from post.its.mcw.edu (post-v30.its.mcw.edu [141.106.30.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05352 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:56:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mschulte@localhost) by post.its.mcw.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA01771 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:48:48 -0500 (CDT) From: Marie Schulte Message-Id: <199909231248.HAA01771@post.its.mcw.edu> Subject: H-COST: Re: UNshrinking To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:48:48 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marie Schulte Hi All! Is there a way to *un*shrink a 100% cotton knit t-shirt? It was washed in cold, but someone decided to do me a "favour" and dry it in a dryer set on high. The arm holes are smaller, as is the width and length. (sigh) my fault for not checking the washer more thoroughly. thanks Marie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 07:46:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00496 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:46:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10531; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA05746 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:59:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA05740 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 06:59:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.49] (ell65.acadia.net [205.217.218.49]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA09768 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:08:55 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:58:13 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: new book Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> It's still not out. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 08:20:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00532 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:20:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13548; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:36:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA10417 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:31:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA10411 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:31:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-214-211.s465.tnt3.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.214.211]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id JAA23286 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:31:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005c01bf05c9$5fb7a720$d3d67ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <37E6E37A.EC875C5A@inreach.com> <3.0.1.32.19990922233411.00a0d8e0@mail.interlog.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Early 16th cent German Corsetry- Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:41:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > >Actually an Italian Ren corset does give the right look. The desired > >effect is the same, slightly flattened and stuffed uni-boob. > > Where did you find evidence of an Italian Ren corset? Please share! > > Cheers, > Danielle I have no evidence for an Italian corset. I just messed around until I found something that gave me the right look. I took a mundane tanktop pattern, shortened it to 1-2 inches longer than my bodice pattern, made it really tight and used the heaviest canvas I could find and laced it up the back. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 08:23:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00536 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:23:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA13921; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:40:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA11029 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:36:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo25.mx.aol.com (imo25.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.69]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA11021 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:36:18 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo25.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6VKUa20770 (3958) for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:35:44 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <10e265ea.251b86af@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:35:43 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: New Book To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Hi, Susan, Linda's upcoming book is wonderful but the print date is still uncertain. When I asked Linda about it in May, she said that it had to be out by the end of 1999. The Williamsburg Institute (www.history.org) has planned a wonderful program on January 9 - 11, 2000 to coincide with book and new exhibit. Instead of bugging Linda about publication date, call the publisher or check the listing on Amazon.com or Barnes & Noble.com as they pick up the details immediately upon receiving the information from publisher/distributor. As of Tuesday, Amazon still is not listing a price. The book is worth the wait -- I've seen one chapter and a selection of the garments. Her follow on book is a catalog of the collection. The current issue of _Dress_ Journal of The Costume Society of America (www.costumesocietyamerica.com/dress) has her article on recycled clothing. Everyone should have this article in their library. Sally Calendar 2000:Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 08:55:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00552 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:55:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16521; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:03:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA14587 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:59:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mx2.io.com (IDENT:root@mx2.io.com [199.170.88.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA14577 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:59:35 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by mx2.io.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA21225 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:59:34 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id IAA09697 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:59:34 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:59:34 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: New Book In-Reply-To: <10e265ea.251b86af@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches@io.com The correct url is: http://www.costumesocietyamerica.com/dress.htm Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Thu, 23 Sep 1999 SAQUEEN@aol.com wrote: > Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:35:43 EDT > From: SAQUEEN@aol.com > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: New Book > > > -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com > > Hi, Susan, > > Linda's upcoming book is wonderful but the print date is still uncertain. > When I asked Linda about it in May, she said that it had to be out by the end > of 1999. The Williamsburg Institute (www.history.org) has planned a wonderful > program on January 9 - 11, 2000 to coincide with book and new exhibit. > > Instead of bugging Linda about publication date, call the publisher or check > the listing on Amazon.com or Barnes & Noble.com as they pick up the details > immediately upon receiving the information from publisher/distributor. As of > Tuesday, Amazon still is not listing a price. > > The book is worth the wait -- I've seen one chapter and a selection of the > garments. > > Her follow on book is a catalog of the collection. The current issue of > _Dress_ Journal of The Costume Society of America > (www.costumesocietyamerica.com/dress) has her article on recycled clothing. > Everyone should have this article in their library. > > Sally > > Calendar 2000:Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries > http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 09:04:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00563 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:04:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18766; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:21:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA17413 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:15:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17404 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:15:34 -0600 (MDT) From: sustre@pixelations.com Received: from [209.244.224.2] (dialup-209.244.224.2.Boston2.Level3.net [209.244.224.2]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA00047 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:15:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: amanda@pixelations.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:19:45 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Four-panel dress Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: sustre@pixelations.com I'm intrigued by the discussion of the basic four-panel dress, and would like to experiment with it. Is there a basic layout diagram anywhere on the Web? in a book? I'd prefer a Web source since my costuming library is sadly scanty, but maybe this is a good excuse to expand it.... Thanks! -Amanda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 09:25:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00591 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:25:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21834; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:42:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA21798 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:36:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA21782 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:36:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-244-66.s66.tnt4.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.244.66]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA05469 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <007d01bf05d0$98bca6e0$42f4accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: Subject: H-COST: CSA Dress Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:33:22 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" The lastest issue of Costume Society of America's Dress is not scheduled to be added to the website until mid-October. If you would like to obtain a copy of the journal, call 1-800-CSA-9447 or email national.office@costumesocietyamerica.com The following is a list of the articles in this issue: Volume 25, 1998 Michelle Boardman, Shoulder to Shoulder: Women's Patriotic Scarves of World War II Kimberly Chrisman, "The Upholstery of Life": Clothing and Character in the Novels of Edith Wharton. Sandra Stansbery Buckland and Gwendolyn S. O'Neal, "We Publish Fashions Because They are News": The New York Times 1940 through 1945. Linda Baumgarten, Altered Historical Clothing. Elizabeth Ann Coleman, Jessie Franklin Turner: A Flight Path for Early Modern American Fashion. Rob Schorman, What to Wear and How to Make It: The Meaning of Clothes in Late Nineteenth-Century America Penny Ladnier Webmaster, Costume Society of America _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 09:34:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00598 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:34:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23686; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:49:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA23279 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:42:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com (imo-d02.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.34]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23274 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:42:37 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6OVEMhU.O_ (4013) for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:42:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <8bf3786d.251b9639@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:42:01 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: New Book To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Thanks for the correction. Was up too late at The Shakespeare Theatre's production of King Lear. Costumes set in WWI made for great interpretation. Loved the hairnets and clippies. Good job, Carol! Tell us more about the costumes for this production. Sally Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 09:48:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00606 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:48:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26815; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:05:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27091 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:58:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27083 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:58:39 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from eris.io.com (IDENT:ches@eris.io.com [199.170.88.11]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA19415 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:58:39 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by eris.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA14307 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:58:33 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: eris.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:58:33 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: UNshrinking In-Reply-To: <199909231248.HAA01771@post.its.mcw.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches@io.com I am not sure how to unshrink something but I did notice that a dress of mine that had shrunk in the dryer when taken to the dry cleaner came back stretched back out. I did not ask them to do it. It was a 1950's dress that belonged to my mother. I will have to look at the content when I get home but I am pretty sure it is crepe. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Marie Schulte wrote: > Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 07:48:48 -0500 (CDT) > From: Marie Schulte > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Re: UNshrinking > > > -Poster: Marie Schulte > > Hi All! > > Is there a way to *un*shrink a 100% cotton knit t-shirt? It was washed in > cold, but someone decided to do me a "favour" and dry it in a dryer set on > high. The arm holes are smaller, as is the width and length. > (sigh) > my fault for not checking the washer more thoroughly. > > thanks > Marie > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 09:53:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00613 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:53:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27827; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:10:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA28483 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:04:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28467 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:04:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990923150422.YPST13005.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:04:22 -0700 Message-ID: <37EA40C6.A7E77043@home.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:01:26 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: UNshrinking References: <199909231248.HAA01771@post.its.mcw.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kat & Kent Marie Schulte wrote: > > Is there a way to *un*shrink a 100% cotton knit t-shirt? It was > washed in cold, but someone decided to do me a "favour" and dry it in > a dryer set on high. The arm holes are smaller, as is the width and > length. (sigh) my fault for not checking the washer more thoroughly. While I haven't tried it myself, I understand that washing it again in shampoo will relax the fibers and allow you to stretch it back out to the normal size. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 10:08:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00651 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:08:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00304; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:25:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA02600 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:19:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02588 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:19:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FII00MG7QJ6NU@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:18:42 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:27:29 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: Perhaps you have not been talking to many people In-reply-to: <199909231500.JAA27558@net.indra.com> X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990923102729.007c8100@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marc Carlson <"LDMundy" > >> <"Andrea Gideon" > >> >...gown is the only authentic cut for a cotehardie. I'm assuming they >> >are using this cut because although the garment it quite tight and very >> >fitted, it does have the same number of seams and gores. >> >> "The garment is quite tight and fitted"... Um, really? >> >the garment that I'm talking about, the one that is so common in my area, is >very tightly fitted. I've seen modern interpretations of the garment that were made to be fitted. I was, as I assumed you were, based on what you said, talking about the actual item as dug from the ground -- not the modern fantasy misinterpretation. My mistake. So sorry and all that. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 10:33:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00692 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:33:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04539; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:50:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08287 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:43:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [209.246.15.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08279 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:43:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA28857 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:43:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id IAA15167; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:43:54 -0700 Message-ID: <37EA4A7F.97BBBDF8@us.oracle.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:42:55 -0400 From: Elizabeth Jones Organization: Oracle Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Dress Terms Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------A5ECD6BF189D965FC7EC144C" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Jones This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------A5ECD6BF189D965FC7EC144C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jessica Clark wrote: " Where do people get their definitions from? Is there a costuming text out there somewhere that lists the terms, defines them, and states its rationale and the roots of the words?" I think the problem comes from our anachronistic attempt at English translation. I learnt the SCA terms "cotehardie" and then "kirtle" very early on and applied them myself. It works as long as both people in the conversation have the same point of reference. For example, "cotehardie" to me means a dress of roughly 14th century, long sleeved, form fitting around the bust, no waist seam, flared out at the bottom, buttons up the front and sleeves, etc. Very general I know, but that's the image in my head. "Kirtle" conjures up a Mary Magdalene back view or one of the Tres Riches Heures women working in the fields. Dress as an undergown: waist seam, back seam usually short sleeves to which oversleeves were pinned, laced up the front, pleated in the back skirt, flared but not excessive, bodice providing support by being closely fitted, etc. The point being that the kirtles I am picturing were almost certainly not called "kirtles" by their contemporaries. After all, the pictures are depicting French/Burgundian/Whatever Region at that time, and they did not use the English word "kirtle" I am sure! They probably used a generic word like "underdress" (which maybe meant kirtle in English), or perhaps "cote", etc. The word "underdress/cote" in French did not go out of fashion come the end of that garment, but just evolved (with the fashion) into whatever underdress you wore later on. They kept wearing undergarments (and not just chemises, camisa, shirts, whatever) through the period, and why not use a general term? I have not done tons of translation work, but when I look for Italian terms in period documents, I frequently see generic terms from which one derives meaning from the context, not the word itself. Very troublesome for us research people who want one word to apply exactly to one item at a fixed point in time! My sense is that very specific fashion items got a new name that may have stopped evolving as the fashion disappeared. But for basic garments that continued developing, the old words continued to be used. That's a very long-winded commentary I am sure. I would be interested in knowing whether anyone has compiled a decent glossary of terms. There are a couple of good ones in the 1400-1500 History of Dress series (Italian abd Gothic) by Jcqueline Herald and (can't remember her name for Gothic). Both are excellent references! Unfortunately, I do not have a handy copy of teh Gothic series, shich I think defines these terms also. I also have a book by Stephanie Davies called "Costume Language - a Dictionary of Dress Terms". I find it a bit general, but most terms seem to be represented. Here's what it says: Cote, Cotte: O.E. OF. Masc: Outer garment. Fem: Long dress or petticoat, 12th-15th centuries. Cote-hardie: Masc: Tunic of varying length between waist and knee. Fem: Full lenth waisted garment worn over kirtle (ack!). Both close fitting and with sleeves. 1350. Until mid-15th century, flap from elbow was lengthened into a band called a tippet, or Fr. coudicre. SOmetimes with a buttoned front fastening and often 'dagged' for decoration. Kirtle: O.E. cyrtel; O.N. kyrtill; L. curtus-short. 1) Masc: Knee-length tunic, 9-14th cent. 2) Fem: Sleeved long garment, 10-15th century, 3) Fem: For about 100 years from 1545 - a separate skirt, the name giving way to 'petticoat'. 4) Fem: a short jacket, early 18th cnetury. 5) A protective outer skirt for horseback riding, early 19th century. I cannot comment on the later period accuracy, but the medieval/rennaisance definitiions seem okay. I haven't ventured into a cotehardie in a long time, but am I under the wrong impression that they did NOT have a waist seam? Now I confused myself! Regards, Liz Jones --------------A5ECD6BF189D965FC7EC144C Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ljones.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Elizabeth Jones Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ljones.vcf" begin:vcard n:;Elizabeth Jones x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr;dom;quoted-printable:;;Oracle Corporation =0D=0A100 Summit Lake Drive;Valhalla;NY;10595; org:Global Networks version:2.1 email;internet:ljones@us.oracle.com title:Senior Project Manager tel;fax:203-267-5856 tel;work:914-773-8169 x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Elizabeth Jones end:vcard --------------A5ECD6BF189D965FC7EC144C-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 11:09:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00726 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:09:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10013; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:26:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17529 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:20:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from email.boisestate.edu (email.boisestate.edu [132.178.16.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17504 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:20:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cobfac.boisestate.edu (cobfac.boisestate.edu [132.178.51.3]) by email.boisestate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04618 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:22:19 -0600 Message-Id: <199909231622.KAA04618@email.boisestate.edu> Received: from COBFAC/SpoolDir by cobfac.boisestate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 23 Sep 99 10:20:46 -0700 Received: from SpoolDir by COBFAC (Mercury 1.44); 23 Sep 99 10:20:34 -0700 From: "Linda Yordy" Organization: College of Business & Economics To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:20:29 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Priority: normal References: <19990923.005331.12966.1.henninlady@juno.com> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Linda Yordy" > On the other hand, it is possible to have an inappropriately "squashed" > bust (if I cut my armholes wrong, I sometimes get a bad horizontal pulling > right across the middle of the breasts). And the proper S-curve should > have the bosom lifted, not dropping. Robin: Could you give more detail about the "right" and "wrong" ways to cut the armhole? What specifically caused the horizontal pulling? Armhole cut too deep, not deep enough? On the S-curve, does this mean the front seam from the waist up is not straight? Would the center front have a curve at the bust line? Thanks! Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 11:29:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00767 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:29:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13031; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:45:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA22336 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:39:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22327 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 10:39:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id JAA20034; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37EA5849.47429F75@serv.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 09:41:46 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress References: <199909222124.RAA16701@bajor.ici.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > I use a plain four-piece construction with gores. I've actually > found a picture or two that show those seam lines, too -- front, back, and > two sides, nothing else. There's a bit of a trick to cutting the neck and > the armholes so you have flexibility in certain directions, and the result > is that the dress raises the breasts high up. Can you elaborate on this cut? Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 12:07:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00832 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:07:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19703; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:24:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02362 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:18:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02343 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:18:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA17287 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:27:14 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA02793 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:25:25 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:25:25 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress In-Reply-To: <199909231622.KAA04618@email.boisestate.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Linda Yordy wrote: > > On the other hand, it is possible to have an inappropriately "squashed" > > bust (if I cut my armholes wrong, I sometimes get a bad horizontal pulling > > right across the middle of the breasts). And the proper S-curve should > > have the bosom lifted, not dropping. > > Robin: > Could you give more detail about the "right" and "wrong" ways to > cut the armhole? What specifically caused the horizontal pulling? > Armhole cut too deep, not deep enough? Oh, yeesh. This is why I have never been able to write an article about this. It's better explained with fabric and a person in front of you! I've made more than 100 of these dresses and I'm still learning tricks of fit, as different bodies pose different problems. But a few random thoughts: First: A lot of my fitting problems disappeared when (1) I lined everything fully, fitting the lining first and then using it as a guide to cutting the main fabric, and (2) I stopped using cotton and moved strictly to linen, wool, or silk, which are more flexible. It should go without saying that you only use woven cloth of natural fibers, and that you fit over a properly made chemise (NOT a tent with raglan sleeves gathered into a huge lumpy drawstring at the neckline). Other tips: Fit from the waist (which is relatively unchangeable) going both up and down from there. Cut your seam allowances huge at shoulders and armholes, because everything will change in those areas after you start pulling the fabric. Fit in increments, a little tighter each time, and allow the dress to warm up a few minutes each time the person puts it on; the fibers will relax with body heat and moisture. Cut your neckline in a U-shape or a gentle scoop and pull it open into a wider scoop, and pull the excess fabric diagonally across the bust. The exact steepness of the U and the form of the curve you cut varies immensely depending on fullness and location of the bust, and also on the inherent stretch of the fabric; I'm afraid only experience will help you on judging that. (And this is why I CANNOT give anyone a pattern.) The horizontal pulling across the bust sometimes means that there is too much tension focused on a grain line going across the bust to the bottom of the armhole. Getting a bit more of an angle on the upper part of the front pieces can help; sometimes I'd find I'd pull the front pieces sideways under the arms and chop off a vertical wedge of fabric (this would be a triangle, an inch or two wide at the armhole edge and three or four inches in depth along the side seam) and resew the side seam. That would change the angle of the grain slightly and add a little flexibility for the lower swell of the bust. The crease might mean your armhole was cut too deep. It should be right against the body, all the way around the arm, at the point at which your arm bends. Clip your seam allowances so you can see how the fabric will bend right at the natural seamline of the arm. In fact, I prefer to just cut off the seam allowance on the lining and fit with the raw edge, which I later bind with a strip of silk. I do leave seam allowance on the main fabric, though, to attach the sleeve. Or the crease could simply mean there was not enough fitting through the ribcage, which allowed the bust to drop a bit. If so, you need more tension on the bottom of the bust, to push the interior of the breast skyward in a smooth line. You should have the person lie down while lacing up and fitting, so you're not fighting gravity. Then pull your side seams in to fit the ribcage. The breasts have nowhere to drop. I found much less problem with that horizontal crease once I stopped using cotton, though. > On the S-curve, does this mean the front seam from the waist up is > not straight? Would the center front have a curve at the bust line? Rarely. I sometimes work in a slight swell or a funnel shape to accommodate a large-busted woman, particularly in the earlier fitted styles c. 1350-80 (the ones like those in the Machaut manuscripts, with the higher neck and the squashed "monobosom"). But the low-necked, high-bosomed, Gothic slouch has most of the fitting on the side and back seams. For this style, it's crucial to cut the neckline low -- the thing that makes that bust push up so high is that there's a lot of pressure from the bottom and very little on the top. Don't cut the neckline lower than the nipples, of course, and make sure the breasts are completely pushed up when you cut -- if they're already at their maximum height, they can't then "fall out" of your neckline. Again, lying down helps in getting the internal mass of the breasts in the right place. But even though the front seam (or laced-up opening) itself is usually straight or close to straight, by the time you're done fitting, the profile of the breast itself is an S (including the upper part of the bosom, above the neckline). But not a saggy one! If the breasts are sagging -- if you have a definite crease under the bosom where they're dropping over the ribcage -- that means you aren't pushing against the bottom enough, and pulling the bulk up high enough. About the last thing I do when I'm done fitting the body is to give the shoulders a good pull up and out. I usually end up chopping off an inch or two from the shoulder "strap," where the front and back pieces meet. This shoulder area is the part that varies most from one dress/person to another, so I can't give you any guidance on exactly the angle and size it will have -- you can tell that only on the person, and only when the fitting is finished. Oh, dear, I'm afraid this has just gotten more confusing. The only way I've ever been able to teach this dress has been in person. And I'm sure that some people who make the same sort of four-piece dress have different ways of accomplishing it. But it IS possible -- anyone who's seen my models at my lectures, or any of the dresses I've made that are still being worn by various people, will tell you that it does work on different figure types. A few years ago at Kalamazoo, I had three models in this dress -- one thin, one tall and curvy, one short and plump. The dresses were in linen, silk, and wool, respectively. They all worked, and they were all clearly the same construction. Sorry I didn't get photos! --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 12:37:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00875 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:37:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23888; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:54:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA09843 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:49:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09832 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:49:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA17984 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:58:11 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA02972 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:56:22 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:56:22 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress In-Reply-To: <37EA5849.47429F75@serv.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Merouda the True of Beaumaris wrote: > > I use a plain four-piece construction with gores. I've actually > > found a picture or two that show those seam lines, too -- front, back, and > > two sides, nothing else. There's a bit of a trick to cutting the neck and > > the armholes so you have flexibility in certain directions, and the result > > is that the dress raises the breasts high up. > > Can you elaborate on this cut? Roughly, it's four pieces that look something like this: __ | | / | __ / \_ | | | / | / | | | \ | \ | \ | \ | \ | \ | \ | \ | \ | \ | \ | \ | \ | \ | _ - ____________________ - ...plus gores at the side seams (top point goes between waist and hip, where the curve of the hip requires it), plus sometimes gores in the front and/or back seams, depending on the body shape of the wearer. There are many ways to do sleeves; currently I like a two-piece cut with a seam just above the elbow. The exact shape of the pieces varies tremendously according to the person and the fabric. I cut only a rough shape to start, then drape and fit on the body before doing more cutting. I fit the lining first, wrong side out of course, then use it as a guide to cutting the main fabric; I put that all together and then check the fit on the body. When fitting, sew the back seam first to match the curve of the spine so it lies perfectly flat. Rough in your other seams, then start fitting from the waist and work up and down from there. See my other post of today for more musings. Much more than that would take me about eight hours to explain properly, in person. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 12:44:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00896 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:44:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24986; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:01:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11541 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:57:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from email.boisestate.edu (email.boisestate.edu [132.178.16.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11531 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:57:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cobfac.boisestate.edu (cobfac.boisestate.edu [132.178.51.3]) by email.boisestate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13080 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:59:07 -0600 Message-Id: <199909231759.LAA13080@email.boisestate.edu> Received: from COBFAC/SpoolDir by cobfac.boisestate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 23 Sep 99 11:57:41 -0700 Received: from SpoolDir by COBFAC (Mercury 1.44); 23 Sep 99 11:57:26 -0700 From: "Linda Yordy" Organization: College of Business & Economics To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:57:24 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Priority: normal References: <199909231622.KAA04618@email.boisestate.edu> In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Linda Yordy" Thanks Robin! I followed all but one point: > Getting a bit more of an angle on the upper part of the > front pieces can help Do you mean to cut the side seam at more of an angle out and up from the waist? (please excuse the drawing). | | ------/ | / more angle here? / / -----/ Thanks again! Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 12:51:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00942 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:51:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26079; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:08:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA13067 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:04:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13060 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:04:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id LAA23536; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:04:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37EA6C1A.98FD0C50@serv.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 11:06:18 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > > I use a plain four-piece construction with gores. I've actually > > > found a picture or two that show those seam lines, too -- front, back, and > > > two sides, nothing else. There's a bit of a trick to cutting the neck and > > > the armholes so you have flexibility in certain directions, and the result > > > is that the dress raises the breasts high up. > > > > Can you elaborate on this cut? I realize now that I was vague. I was wishing for a commentary on what your tricks are for the neck and armholes. But I received your other post and this was cleared up. :) Otherwise, you do exactly what I do. But that neckline can be a bear. I finally got my armholes perfect for me but that was a challenge in the beginning as well. Thanks! Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 13:09:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00958 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:09:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29174; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:26:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA17397 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:21:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from email.boisestate.edu (email.boisestate.edu [132.178.16.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17341 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:21:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cobfac.boisestate.edu (cobfac.boisestate.edu [132.178.51.3]) by email.boisestate.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24158 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:23:32 -0600 Message-Id: <199909231823.MAA24158@email.boisestate.edu> Received: from COBFAC/SpoolDir by cobfac.boisestate.edu (Mercury 1.44); 23 Sep 99 12:22:09 -0700 Received: from SpoolDir by COBFAC (Mercury 1.44); 23 Sep 99 12:21:53 -0700 From: "Linda Yordy" Organization: College of Business & Economics To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:21:51 -0700 Subject: H-COST: raglan sleeves Priority: normal In-reply-to: <37EA6C1A.98FD0C50@serv.net> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Linda Yordy" I've been staring at a painting called "The Church Militant and Triumphant (detail) by Andrea Da Firenze painted around 1365-68. You can find this by going to: http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/search.html Then do a search for ANDREA DA FIRENZE (he's under A not F). Anyway, the two women in off-while on the right have squareneck cotehardies on. The way the neckline and sleeves lay, the sleeves look as if they could be raglan. I know I've seen a painting of raglan sleeves somewhere (can't find it now that I need it), but I think that was probably a century or so later. Does anyone know when raglans first came into use? I don't suppose I could make this cotehardie with raglans? (I know, don't hold my breath ;-) Thanks, Linda Yordy Phone: 208/426-4034 Boise State University Center for Management Development 1910 University Drive Boise, ID 83725-1660 ******************************************************** Yordy's Law #3: When wearing white, apply your lunch directly to your shirt -- it will end up there anyway. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 13:59:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01000 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:59:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07188; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:16:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28483 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:11:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28474; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:11:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA20347; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:11:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id PAA14284; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:11:57 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:11:57 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Rolled pleats...?? In-Reply-To: <37E98CD7.B9372010@home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed If you look at paintings by Lucas Cranach, the skirts on the womens' gowns look like rolled pleats. I don't know for a fact that they are, but rolled pleats produce an effect like these skirts--long, tubular pleats, which hang straight from the waist to the hem. I usually make my pleats 1 inch wide at the top. I'll be putting a web page up with diagrams of different kinds of pleats soon. Hopefully pictures will help. Drea On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Liz /cozit wrote: > > -Poster: Liz /cozit > > > Ok...I've been following the pleating threads, and when I first hit the > rolled pleats thread, I *thought* I knew what they'd look like when > finished. I've come to the conclusion that I definitely don't (at least > not if they're wider than about 1/4 inch). I just can't picture the end > result and how the material would fall. > > Does anyone out there have a URL for a picture of a garment that used > rolled pleats? > > Thanks, > -Elisabeth > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 14:21:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01039 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:21:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11670; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:38:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03859 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:34:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03846 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:34:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA20388 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:42:38 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA03666 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:40:49 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:40:49 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress In-Reply-To: <199909231759.LAA13080@email.boisestate.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Linda Yordy wrote: > I followed all but one point: > > > Getting a bit more of an angle on the upper part of the > > front pieces can help > > Do you mean to cut the side seam at more of an angle out and up > from the waist? No, I mean that in the course of your fitting, you may need to "tilt" or distort the front pieces as they lie on the body, so that you don't end up with a single grain line slicing directly across the breast to the underarm. The fabric won't stretch much on the grain line, so if the grain falls exactly straight across from center to underarm, you can see a pulling or indentation in the fabric along that line. This crease typically aligns with the top end of the side seam, where it enters the armhole; above that, the armhole provides some "release" from the crosswise tension. The best solution (if anatomy allows) is actually to try to push the bulk of the breast higher than that point, so you can use the pressure to good advantage in pressing the underside of the breast rather than slicing into the front of it. The issue of stretch on the grain is one reason I found the fit improved when I stopped using woven cottons. Cottons usually are less flexible than wool or linen, which have a little "give" even on the grain, and loads more on the bias. Wool can be very bouncy, and is wonderful for this dress. I've found that linen is a dream to fit, but hell to cut and sew -- every time I lay a cut piece of linen out flat, it crawls; it's never the same shape twice. But that same property enables it to mold to the figure. Silk is less flexible than wool or linen, but very strong. The weave makes a difference, too -- I look at stretch and flexibility when I shop. Of course these very attributes can cause problems in certain other periods, when you *don't* want the fabric to stretch, mutate, or mold. (Please, no jokes about moldy fabric -- I've had my share...) --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 14:30:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01063 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:30:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13205; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:47:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05714 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:43:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05708; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:43:12 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:43:12 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909231943.NAA05708@net.indra.com> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: Subject: H-COST: Ashelford.... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Does anyone have the Jane Ashelford "Visual History...16th Cent." on hand? I need the biblio. information for this, and stupidly forgot to write it down.... Thanks! Liadain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 14:31:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01067 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:30:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13337; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:48:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05925 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:44:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05917; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:44:03 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909231944.NAA05917@net.indra.com> From: "Allene Brown" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Books Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Allene Brown" Well, all I know is, when a new person to the SCA comes over to my house to talk about garb, I whip out the Peacock. Mine is marked for our time period and I let the person go though it until they say "There! That is what I had in mind!" Then we move on to the more reputable sources for the patterns and construction techniques. Peacock, for me, is absolutely indispensible for this reason. Kathlene _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 14:39:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01076 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:39:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14722; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:56:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07817 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:52:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07794 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:52:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn36.pm3-6.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.241.177]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA05508 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:52:17 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <000b01bf05fd$985c16e0$b1f1a2d0@default> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: References: <199909231943.NAA05708@net.indra.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: Ashelford.... Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:55:26 -0600 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Wow, sent this last night.... Pardon the bandwidth, this has been asked and answered.... Liadain > > -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" > > Does anyone have the Jane Ashelford "Visual History...16th Cent." > on hand? I need the biblio. information for this, and stupidly forgot > to write it down.... > > Thanks! > Liadain > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 14:39:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01080 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:39:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA14720; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:56:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07842 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:52:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com (imo27.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07833 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:52:37 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6FTSa03529 (4465) for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:52:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <644a2e04.251bdee2@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:52:02 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Books To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 9/23/1999 12:45:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, allene@cyberhighway.net writes: << Mine is marked for our time period and I let the person go though it until they say "There! That is what I had in mind!" Then we move on to the more reputable sources for the patterns and construction techniques. Peacock, for me, is absolutely indispensible for this reason. >> I sort of agree. It's a nice overview, and I can't see any details well enough to construct from it anyway. As a lowly "theatrical" costumer who isn't too overly concerned about authenticity (at least usually not more than correct lines, fabrics and general look) I don't get into anything as explicit as the perfect seam construction. I figure the more pics, the better to convey to a director with no sense at all of (fill in the period) how folks looked back then. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "Be not afraid of greatness; some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them." Twelfth-Night, II, v - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 14:46:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01094 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:46:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15839; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:03:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09285 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:59:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net (finch-post-11.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA09273 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:59:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11UF1E-000NsR-0B for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:59:05 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:58:13 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Ashelford.... In-Reply-To: <199909231943.NAA05708@net.indra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jean Waddie >-Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" > > Does anyone have the Jane Ashelford "Visual History...16th Cent." >on hand? I need the biblio. information for this, and stupidly forgot >to write it down.... > > Thanks! > Liadain > I made my hubby move my costume books in by the computer for just such an eventuality! A Visual History of Costume: The Sixteenth Century By Jane Ashelford Published by B T Batsford Ltd, 1983 ISBN: 0713468289 This is the paperback ISBN - the paperback edition was first published 1993. Jean -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 14:48:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01121 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:48:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16175; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:06:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09943 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:01:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx20.rmci.net (saturn.rmci.net [205.162.184.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA09920 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:01:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 24429 invoked from network); 23 Sep 1999 19:12:24 -0000 Received: from pag-di80.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.80) by mx20.rmci.net with SMTP; 23 Sep 1999 19:12:24 -0000 Message-ID: <37EA8636.C7925B79@rica.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:57:43 -0400 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com CC: vintage@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Regency Dress Ball in Virginia - Come one, come all! References: <19990918194709.18254.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jennie Chancey Last year a bunch of us here in Northern Virginia put on our first Regency dress ball. It was a lot of fun, and we hope this year's will be even better. We'd love to have a good turnout of costumed participants. Here is your opportunity to show off your Regency creations! The ball will be held in Bluemont, Virginia (between Winchester and Leesburg on Route 7), on Saturday, November 6, from 7:30 to 10:30 p.m. We'll have live musicians, and our callers will be the elegant Mr. and Mrs. Joseph Ruckman, who specialize in Revolutionary and Regency dancing. There will be plenty of refreshments and lots of good company. If you can get together a group of 10 or more, the price will be $15/person. Cost at the door is $18. For more information on tickets or for directions, write to Tenby Ihde at dyfed@aol.com Hope to see you there! Cheers, Jennie Chancey -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 14:50:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01131 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:50:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA16581; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:08:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA10459 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:03:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10451 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:03:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn20.pm3-7.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.241.61]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA08072 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:03:38 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <001701bf05ff$2e59ce20$3df1a2d0@default> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Ashelford.... Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:05:45 -0600 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Thanks! Does anyone know if this is still in print? I'd love to not have to ILL it any more..... Liadain > > -Poster: Jean Waddie > > >-Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" > > > > Does anyone have the Jane Ashelford "Visual History...16th Cent." > >on hand? I need the biblio. information for this, and stupidly forgot > >to write it down.... > > > > Thanks! > > Liadain > > > I made my hubby move my costume books in by the computer for just such > an eventuality! > > A Visual History of Costume: The Sixteenth Century > By Jane Ashelford > Published by B T Batsford Ltd, 1983 > ISBN: 0713468289 > > This is the paperback ISBN - the paperback edition was first published > 1993. > > Jean > -- > Jean Waddie > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 14:58:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01150 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:58:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18049; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:15:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA12231 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:11:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA12207 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:10:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA23406 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA19957 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:11:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:11:20 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Ashelford.... In-Reply-To: <001701bf05ff$2e59ce20$3df1a2d0@default> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed I believe Poison Pen Press (http://www.poisonpenpress.com) has it. Drea On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Frank A Thallas Jr wrote: > > -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" > > Thanks! Does anyone know if this is still in print? I'd love to > not have to ILL it any more..... > > Liadain > > > > -Poster: Jean Waddie > > > > >-Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" > > > > > > Does anyone have the Jane Ashelford "Visual History...16th Cent." > > >on hand? I need the biblio. information for this, and stupidly forgot > > >to write it down.... > > > > > > Thanks! > > > Liadain > > > > > I made my hubby move my costume books in by the computer for just such > > an eventuality! > > > > A Visual History of Costume: The Sixteenth Century > > By Jane Ashelford > > Published by B T Batsford Ltd, 1983 > > ISBN: 0713468289 > > > > This is the paperback ISBN - the paperback edition was first published > > 1993. > > > > Jean > > -- > > Jean Waddie > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 15:25:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01198 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:25:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22165; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:42:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18179 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:38:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web805.mail.yahoo.com (web805.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA18168 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:38:09 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990923205008.26196.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web805.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:50:08 PDT Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:50:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: H-COST: Questions.....OT To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sarah Toney I have a couple of question... first is more of a business one for all of you who actually have "Costuming Businesses"... at what point is a business big enough to have to register and all that? You guys are the only ones I know to ask, so sorry for the OT. My baby brother is designing my web site for me right now and I am taking some pictures so I can get this thing going... The other question is... er... I don't rightly remember... *sigh* Long day... Oh well, I'll remember later and bug ya'll again. Please feel free to respond off list to my question at sarah_and_pooh@yahoo.com. Thanks! Sarah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 15:50:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01255 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:50:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25473; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:08:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA23754 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:04:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA23730 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:04:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.405) with smtp for sender: id ; Thu, 23 Sep 99 16:04:00 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <004e01bf0606$b922cfa0$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: H-COST: French womans 1520's clothing Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:00:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" I would like to make an dress to match the same time period as my husbands with the exception that I want to do my persona's country. I have looked some and have come up pretty empty on artwork for women's French clothing in the 1520's. So if someone out there can help me find some artwork that would be appropriate I would appreciate it. Thank you, Carol Ross _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 16:00:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA01269 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:59:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26340; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:15:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA25458 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:11:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25445 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:11:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p29.directcon.net [206.170.184.128]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA32076 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:10:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 14:10:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199909232110.OAA32076@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: H-cost: Looking for McCall's Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson Can anyone give me the phone number for the corporate offices of McCall's Patterns? their website has no contact info, not even an email link, and a Lycos search also came up zilch. What gives? Do they have a parent corporation name or something that I'm unaware of? Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 16:05:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01280 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:05:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27148; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:22:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA26599 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:17:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m3.jersey.juno.com (m3.jersey.juno.com [209.67.33.61]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26592 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:17:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from henninlady@juno.com) by m3.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EL8UZTQE; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:10:50 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:11:45 -0400 Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Message-ID: <19990923.171152.12974.0.henninlady@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-8,10-14,19-20,22,24-27,29-56,60-62,64-65, 67-71,79-81 From: Elizabeth Cummins Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Cummins >Are these really "problems," or is it that the "look" you want is one >that is considered attractive in the modern view? How are you defining >"one done well"? "One done well" makes a person look like they just stepped out of an illumination. This is not what I have seen so far. >I can't be exactly sure what you're describing, of course, but fitted >dresses from 1350-80 often had a "squashed" bustline. (Look at the >Guillaume de Machaut manuscripts; there are a couple reprinted in Avril's >book on Manuscript Painting at the Court of France. Also look at the >brass of Joan de la Pole and other brasses/effigies of this period -- >Margaret Scott's Visual History of Costume has a good collection of I prefer to call that a "firmly contained" bustline . I see your point, and have to tell you that I have not seen anything that looked like a firmly contained bustline on the people that have done it. They were definitely in the "squashed" (ie, small breasts completely flattened, large breasts straining the fabric) category. >these.) Later, as necklines dropped and bustlines rose, an "S" curve along >the front center seam was quite typical; you can see these in manuscripts >too numerous to count, including the Tres Riches Heures. There are other >shapes too -- the breasts do a slow creep skyward over the course of 50 >years, and the silhouette goes through several distinct shifts. I've >achieved this whole range with a succession of minor fitting changes on a >basic 4-piece cut. So when you turn sideways, you see an S curve like this: back of person | \ front of person | \ | \ | \ | | | / | / Right? I have been seeing this: full frontal view of person / \ \ / \ \ / \ \ | | | \ / / \ / / \ | / The front seam is pulling toward one breast. >I figured that I had the c. 1400-1415 construction down pat when I found >that it put the wearer automatically into a "Gothic slouch" -- that This is what I'd like to get from any costume I make. Putting on a costume and automatically assuming the stance of the period is a real thrill. I've managed to pull that off on the last three costumes I've made and I've been tickled pink! >On the other hand, it is possible to have an inappropriately "squashed" >bust (if I cut my armholes wrong, I sometimes get a bad horizontal pulling >right across the middle of the breasts). And the proper S-curve should >have the bosom lifted, not dropping. So you may indeed have been seeing a >bad fit. Unless I am completely wrong, I'm pretty sure that this is the case. I read your random thoughts on fitting this type of dress in subsequent posts, and I'm despairing of ever being able to do one of these dresses myself. I can't experiment on myself with this type of dress - laying face down on a bed and trying to fit a back seam is simply not possible for me, I'm afraid. I'm just not that double jointed . And if you find it nearly impossible to describe it to someone, I have no chance in seven hells of trying to explain to my less experienced fellow sewing buddies what I'd like for them to do. Sigh. Elizabeth Cummins ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 16:40:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01323 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:40:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA02245; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:57:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05349 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:53:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from williams.tricreations.com (williams.tricreations.com [207.156.174.93]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05330 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:53:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [38.27.179.247] (ip247.columbus6.oh.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.179.247]) by williams.tricreations.com (8.9.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA01907 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:47:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909232147.RAA01907@williams.tricreations.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:57:40 -0400 x-sender: tr002203-elisee@williams.tricreations.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Elisee du Lyonnais To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elisee du Lyonnais Robin Netherton wrote: >Oh, dear, I'm afraid this has just gotten more confusing. The only way >I've ever been able to teach this dress has been in person. And I'm sure >that some people who make the same sort of four-piece dress have different >ways of accomplishing it. But it IS possible -- anyone who's seen my >models at my lectures, or any of the dresses I've made that are still >being worn by various people, will tell you that it does work on different >figure types. A few years ago at Kalamazoo, I had three models in this >dress -- one thin, one tall and curvy, one short and plump. The dresses >were in linen, silk, and wool, respectively. They all worked, and they >were all clearly the same construction. Sorry I didn't get photos! > >--Robin I have to say, I still have a gown Robin fitted for me ::mumble:: years ago. I no longer fit IT, of course, but the ones I have made using her same methods, for myself and for others fit beautifully and provide all the necessary support. Since I have seen her work this process firsthand, her explanation made perfect sense to me. I think its clear enough to pick it up from just her description. Now if I were just close enough to pick your brain on a regular basis, Robin.... Thank you for your teaching! Lisee _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 16:45:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01327 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:45:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA02991; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:02:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA06717 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:58:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06706 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:58:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-101-68.s259.tnt3.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.101.68]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA14879 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:58:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000701bf060e$6106af00$4465accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <199909232110.OAA32076@apollo.directcon.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: H-cost: Looking for McCall's Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:55:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Good luck trying to find out information from any of the magazine/pattern companies. Their websites will provide very little information. Your best bet is to go look in the front of their magazine and look at their credits. Usually they have a 1-800 . Then get ready for the zoo, trying to track down the right person to talk too. I have been chasing LHJ and Butterwick/Vogue for two months. But I am determined, I will find the right person to talk with. If you do get a number for McCall's let me know. Later...Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 16:47:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01331 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:47:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA03338; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:05:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA07272 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:00:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.mi.verio.com (mail.mi.verio.com [209.69.6.110]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA07255 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:00:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rust.net (69-133.pop.sh.mi.verio.com [209.69.69.133]) by mail.mi.verio.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA24944 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:44:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37EAA398.D662A8CE@rust.net> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:03:04 -0400 From: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Organization: The Curiosity Shop X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Subject: Re: H-COST: Mid 19th Century Little Boy Clothes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen The Adjutant's Office wrote: > Can anyone recommend a pattern for a Civil War era-ish outfit for a > little boy? I realize that a three year old boy would probably be > still be in skirts, but I don't know that I'll be able to get him to > put another dress on, so I'm looking for something along the lines of > a sailor suit. Sailor suits as such didn't become popular for children until later in the century, but there were a variety of other charming outfits that were popular instead. There is an excellent pattern company that specializes in children's clothing worn during the American Civil War era called "For the Little Ones at Home'. The patterns are all drafted from original garments and they work up beautifully. They are styles I see very often on children in photos taken during that period. The patterns can be purchased through Heritage Reproductions on line at: http://members.tripod.com/~heritage_repro/ Happy sewing! Glenna Jo Christen gwjchris@rust.net Visit our web site, "The Curiosity Shop" http://www.rust.net/~gwjchris/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 17:24:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01388 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:24:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08018; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:41:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA15628 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:37:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15617 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:37:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mailgate1.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18645 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:36:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scv2.apple.com (scv2.apple.com) by mailgate1.apple.com (mailgate1.apple.com- SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:35:40 -0700 Received: from [17.202.21.54] (decaga.apple.com [17.202.21.54]) by scv2.apple.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA23412 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 15:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199909232235.PAA23412@scv2.apple.com> Subject: H-COST: organ pipe pleats-- from the confused Date: Thu, 23 Sep 99 15:35:32 -0700 x-sender: gdecamp@shell12.ba.best.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0, March 15, 1997 From: Gail DeCamp To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gail DeCamp Is that Naomi Tarrant's History of Costume or Kohler's History of Costume? thanks! Gail >>Please help... I'm still confused... do you have a line drawing of this >>on your website? I'd really really love to see a picture! > >No, there is one in the History of Costume book I mentioned. It looks like >a 1/2 circle representing 1/2 the skirt. The pleats are divided like narrow >pieces of a pie. I put in three concentric circles below the waist on my >bases, those mark the lines where the tapes are tacked. Dogs come when you call them. Cats have answering machines. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 17:26:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01396 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:26:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA08390; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:44:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA16330 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:40:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16310 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:40:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA24725 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:48:42 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA04952 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:46:54 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:46:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress In-Reply-To: <19990923.171152.12974.0.henninlady@juno.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Elizabeth Cummins wrote: Yes, I think you are seeing bad fit. I've run into some of those problems myself, and here's what I've done... > I prefer to call that a "firmly contained" bustline . I see your > point, and have to tell you that I have not seen anything that looked > like a firmly contained bustline on the people that have done it. They > were definitely in the "squashed" (ie, small breasts completely > flattened, large breasts straining the fabric) category. Fully lining the garment really helps here. Two substantial layers share the pressure and smooth out the fit. Also, remember that the images from the period typically show someone wearing two dresses -- the inner one takes all the strain, and the outer one just sits on top of that. > full frontal view of person > / \ \ > / \ \ > / \ \ > | | | > \ / / > \ / / > \ | / > > The front seam is pulling toward one breast. OH, yeah. This is common, as most women are at least a little lopsided. I've found it helps to actually tighten the fit a bit more on the *larger* breast. That may seem counterintuitive (most people would think you need more room on the larger side) but it actually helps even things out. To keep the front seam from shifting to one side, it also helps to put your lacing in the front. You're using a full lining, so the front edges are finished with seams that have the seam allowances folded inside, between the outer fabric and the lining. When you fit, allow enough room to overlap the edges, and put the lacing holes no more than 3/4" apart and no more than 3/4" from the edge of the fabric. I offset the lacing holes, too. Then -- this is important -- overlap the edges and lace up with a single cord, tied off at the bottom and going up in a spiral. What you end up with is a cord wrapped around a skinny stack of no less than eight layers of fabric (on each side, that's main fabric, lining, and two seam allowances). It's as strong as a bone, and it doesn't shift. Or gap. > I read your random thoughts on fitting this type of dress in subsequent > posts, and I'm despairing of ever being able to do one of these dresses > myself. I can't experiment on myself with this type of dress - laying > face down on a bed and trying to fit a back seam is simply not possible > for me, I'm afraid. I'm just not that double jointed . And if you > find it nearly impossible to describe it to someone, I have no chance in > seven hells of trying to explain to my less experienced fellow sewing > buddies what I'd like for them to do. Sigh. Oh, yes. I do not myself own one of my fitted dresses, for the same reason. When I was 19 and first working this out, I was able to fit myself -- but I was skinny, small-busted, and flexible. None of that is true today, 20 years later! I have some burgundy silk and some black wool I'm hoping to use to make myself some fitted dresses someday, but only if some of my past students actually make good on their promises to fly out some weekend and help me! --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 17:37:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01428 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:37:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09365; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:53:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA18232 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:49:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA18216 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:49:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA24968 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:57:58 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA05051 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:56:10 -0500 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:56:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: organ pipe pleats-- from the confused In-Reply-To: <199909232235.PAA23412@scv2.apple.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Thu, 23 Sep 1999, Gail DeCamp wrote: > Is that Naomi Tarrant's History of Costume or Kohler's History of > Costume? > >No, there is one in the History of Costume book I mentioned. It looks like > >a 1/2 circle representing 1/2 the skirt. The pleats are divided like narrow > >pieces of a pie. I put in three concentric circles below the waist on my > >bases, those mark the lines where the tapes are tacked. I don't know what the original writer was referring to, but I believe there's a pattern for this in Blanche Payne's History of Costume (first edition; I don't know if the pattern was included in the second edition). My books are packed, so I can't verify. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 18:15:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01505 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:15:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14025; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:32:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA25875 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:27:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA25866 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:27:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:27:33 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001701bf05ff$2e59ce20$3df1a2d0@default> References: Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 16:28:14 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Ashelford.... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" > > Thanks! Does anyone know if this is still in print? I'd love to >not have to ILL it any more..... > > Liadain >> > >> I made my hubby move my costume books in by the computer for just such >> an eventuality! >> >> A Visual History of Costume: The Sixteenth Century >> By Jane Ashelford >> Published by B T Batsford Ltd, 1983 >> ISBN: 0713468289 >> >> This is the paperback ISBN - the paperback edition was first published >> 1993. >> >> Jean >> -- >> Jean Waddie Liadain, This isn't meant to be a gloat, I swear. In July Hedgehog Handworks had about a dozen copies of this book for sale. She said that the publisher had called her out of the blue and asked her if she thought she might like any of the copies they had found in their warehouse. She said that she thought she *might* be able to sell a copy or two. When I called her and ordered the book a week later I ordered her last book. From what she said they were out of print and not liable to reprint anytime soon. It's a glorious book. I'm very happy to own it. I must have lived right recently to have gotten the last book! LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 19:29:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01692 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:29:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19752; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:40:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA07083 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:35:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA07071 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:35:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 1260 invoked by alias); 24 Sep 1999 00:35:31 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 1254 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 1999 00:35:30 -0000 Received: from bdsl99.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.99) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 24 Sep 1999 00:35:30 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990923192107.0098f620@rrnet.com> X-Sender: baird@rrnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:35:20 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Subject: H-COST: going into business Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" If you want to make the occasional garment for pay, you don't really need to do anything official about it. Of course, should the IRS find out you have unreported income, you could be fined. But if you want the advantages of being a business, get a separate checking account for the business. If you want to accept charge cards, you will need a commercial bank account, which costs more. Also, get a sales tax license from your state tax department. If you want to buy supplies at wholesale, they will ask you for your tax number. When you sell taxable items, you have to charge the tax and remit it to the state. Keep records. If this is a business, all your expenses are tax deductible. If you have a room in your house completely devoted to the business, you can deduct a portion of your utilities and property taxes as a business expense. Major items may need to be depreciated over several tax years. I'm not a lawyer or accountant, these are just some suggestions based on my experience. Kim _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 19:42:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA01712 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:42:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA21576; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:57:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA09477 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:52:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09468 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:52:37 -0600 (MDT) From: HighlndLss@aol.com Received: from HighlndLss@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6AQPa12344 (4113) for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1e567154.251c2531@aol.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:52:01 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: New Book To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: HighlndLss@aol.com Hi Sally, And I thank you for your information. I too have heard good things regarding this up coming book, and am anxious to see it completed. I will certainly keep checking the online sources. The Williamsburg program being planned for next January also looks as if it will be very good. I can only hope that I will be able to get some time off from work to attend. That is questionable at the moment. Thank you again. Susan K. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 20:33:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01789 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:33:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27114; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:51:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17169 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:47:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17164 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:46:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.73] (sdts11-159.znet.net [207.167.66.159]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id SAA19975 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:46:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909232235.PAA23412@scv2.apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 17:10:05 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: organ pipe pleats-- from the confused Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: Gail DeCamp > > >Is that Naomi Tarrant's History of Costume or Kohler's History of >Costume? Blanche Payne's History of Costume FIRST Edition only _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 21:06:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01832 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:06:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01124; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:24:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA21827 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:19:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21821 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 20:19:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990924021940.GSLV16386.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 19:19:40 -0700 Message-ID: <37EADEBE.DCCE39B1@home.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:15:26 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Books -Peacock References: <644a2e04.251bdee2@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kat & Kent MzScahlett@aol.com wrote: > > I sort of agree. It's a nice overview, and I can't see any details > well enough to construct from it anyway. As a lowly "theatrical" > costumer who isn't too overly concerned about authenticity (at least > usually not more than correct lines, fabrics and general look) I don't > get into anything as explicit as the perfect seam construction. > > I figure the more pics, the better to convey to a director with no > sense at all of (fill in the period) how folks looked back then. I'm fortunate that the director I primarily work for (my dad!) is also a historian with a great deal of experience in seeing historical pics (he often pulls out the history books when suggesting a particular 'look'!) but I agree... and from what I've seen, those of us who actually use this book use it, not as a historical reference, but as a tool to get a sense of what we (or whomever we're sewing for) want for a particular piece of garb and *then* do the research. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 23:01:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01984 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:01:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11777; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:19:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA06465 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:12:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f75.hotmail.com [216.32.181.75]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA06459 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:12:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 36742 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 1999 04:12:19 -0000 Message-ID: <19990924041219.36741.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.12.28.20 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:12:18 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.12.28.20] From: "Tara German" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: organ pipe pleats-- from the confused Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 04:12:18 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Tara German" So does that mean that in effect, the top edge is done in what are pretty much like tiny little box pleats? And because of the circular cut of the skirt, when you tack the inside folds of the pleats together you end up with ever widening tubes? Tara ------------------------------ Read and leave comments on mail order merchants. http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/Plaze/4884/contents.html ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 23:16:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02021 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:16:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA12895; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:34:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA08492 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:30:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA08484 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:29:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.405) with smtp for sender: id ; Thu, 23 Sep 99 23:29:58 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <008501bf0645$04573f40$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: organ pipe pleats-- from the confused Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:26:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" Ok.....I have to admit that I wasn't following this too well and happened to delete the explanation permanently. So can someone forward the explanation of how to do organ pipe pleats to me at gdc@airmail.net ? Carol Ross _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 23 23:44:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA02042 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:44:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14761; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:02:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA11631 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:57:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11621 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:57:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.161.142]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA28785 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:57:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37EB055B.EAFF9F2E@mediaone.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 01:00:11 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Questions on costume business References: <19990923205008.26196.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Janice Dallas Sarah, We set up a legal business because we were working with non-profits who wouldn't reimburse for salestax, and we got tired of showing every needle and thread used. Now we're tax-defered and can sent invoices for finished product that are respected. We aren't a self-sustaining business, just a small one, really, but we can order wholesale when necessary. It makes an avocation more legit, though there is a bit more paperwork. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 00:15:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02064 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:15:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16272; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:31:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA14954 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:26:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA14946 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:26:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.39] (sdts10-39.znet.net [207.167.66.39]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id WAA21299 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:26:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990924041219.36741.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:23:52 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: organ pipe pleats-- from the confused Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: "Tara German" > >So does that mean that in effect, the top edge is done in what are pretty >much like tiny little box pleats? And because of the circular cut of the >skirt, when you tack the inside folds of the pleats together you end up with >ever widening tubes? > >Tara not really because the skirt is attached like cartridge pleating: doublet | | |---- skirt _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 00:30:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02093 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:30:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17293; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:48:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA17018 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:43:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17012 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:43:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA23949 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-102.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.102]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA26109 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 22:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <012c01bf0650$f2155d60$27b8fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 21:20:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Michelle" > >This is one of the reasons I hate shopping at Goodwill!!! I don't know >about the rest of you, but I rarely go shopping thinking, "hey, I think I'll >buy something RED today, never mind waht it is or what size". Or are the >ones near you organized within those color blocks? The ones I've gone to >aren't: red blouses, vests, skirts, sweaters, all neatly arranged on a rack >with no attention to size at all. > >Margo ALL of our thrift stores in Fresno and Clovis California are arranged this way. I don't think they want to pay their minimum wage employees to sort by size. It is aggravating. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 00:35:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA02101 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 00:35:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17636; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:53:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA17551 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:49:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17540 for ; Thu, 23 Sep 1999 23:49:12 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6QVFa04716 (3858) for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 01:48:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <29b7cb08.251c6ab2@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 01:48:34 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com In a message dated 9/23/1999 22:44:26 Pacific Daylight Time, mandrake@mypad.com writes: << ALL of our thrift stores in Fresno and Clovis California are arranged this way. I don't think they want to pay their minimum wage employees to sort by size. It is aggravating. Michelle >> There would never be a good way to sort by size in a thrift store. Many of the articles are mis-sized and that is why they end up in the thrift stores in the first place. My local stores do have a nice trick of tagging many items with measurements, (like the skirts will say "28-30" to give an idea of the waist, or other useful info they figure will help out). I don't think it's to drive anyone crazy, but there's never any guarantee that they'll have any group of any one size, so they group by a look, like color or "short" dresses v "long" dresses. I've just never seen it as a problem. angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "Be not afraid of greatness; some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them." Twelfth-Night, II, v - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 04:00:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA30994 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 04:00:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26561; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 03:17:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA05965 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 03:13:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05931 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 03:13:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.121.236]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990924091345.FDNN5188.mta1-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:13:45 +0100 Message-ID: <37EBA656.496@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:27:02 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Books -Peacock References: <644a2e04.251bdee2@aol.com> <37EADEBE.DCCE39B1@home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dawn I worked with John about 11 years ago whilst at Morris Angels and he had no pretensions about his book as being anything other than a timeline over view. He was a BBC costume Designer (when they had such things in house) and not a historian but had felt a need to to write something that would help him and therefore others like him in there film/tv work. Jeans Book should also be used in the same way as should the Hill and Bucknell book Evolution of fashion all of which were written for the film/tv costume maker (not the museum maker) and are all excellent books in the category they are are written for Do also remember when he wrote this that many of the established must have s in our libraries had also not been written or were very difficult to get hold of. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 04:04:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA31105 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 04:04:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26739; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 03:22:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA27232 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 03:18:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA27130 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 03:18:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JGCFSR6UQO0037C5@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:23:30 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JGCFSQ8OPG0038IM@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:23:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:16:26 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:16:26 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:16:16 +1100 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:16:16 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <50950C05344@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: teddy1 > Poster: Robin Netherton > > Oh, dear, I'm afraid this has just gotten more confusing. The only > way I've ever been able to teach this dress has been in person. It was clear to me, and I suspect a lot of others. Diagrams would make it a bit clearer (of course, not really possible in this form of communication) but on the whole I'd say you explained it extremely clearly. > And I'm sure that some people who make the same sort of four-piece > dress have different ways of accomplishing it. I've done this on several people but on some (particularly the bysty ones) I end up with the "S" shaped centre front seam. It looks horribly lumpy on the unworn garment but gives the "right" shape when worn. I must try your method of fitting, however. Getting the model to lie down so her bits aren't fightling gravity sounds like a hoot....! Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 04:43:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA31188 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 04:43:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28042; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 04:01:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA02399 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 03:56:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA02393 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 03:56:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JGCH5BI9E8002KIF@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:01:57 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JGCH5A02UC002SPN@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:01:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:54:48 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:54:29 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:54:21 +1100 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:54:20 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-COST: 1870's child clothes question To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <509F32A6B70@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: teddy1 Now for a question on a period I don't do much in.... Can any of you suggest some good sources for details of how a small girl (in the 6 -10 age group) would have been dressed in the early 1870's. Preferably middle/upper-middle class household? Particularly interested in clothes work at home during the day. I'd really like to find out from underwear up. Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 04:56:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA31194 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 04:56:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA28408; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 04:14:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA03445 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 04:10:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA03439 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 04:10:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JGCHLCAYTC001E7B@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:15:11 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JGCHL9A01S002SPN@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:14:36 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:07:41 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:07:14 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:07:06 +1100 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:07:06 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-COST: 1900's House TV programme (UK) To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <50A298B69A5@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: teddy1 "The 1900's House" is a new television programme in the UK. A modern family of 6 has agreed to live as a turn of the century middle-class family for 3 months, and have been put into a house of the period that has been refitted and decorated as it would have been in 1900. Having watched the family kitted out and get their first view of their new home, in last night's episode, it looks to be really good Some concessions had to be made. The 4 children changed into modern clothes for school but had to change back into their period clothes (actual garments of the period or copies of garments in museums, fo the most part) before re-entering the house. The mother and father have to wear their period clothes full-time (the father is an army officer who has transferred to a desk-job for the 3 month period, and *does* look splendid in his turn of the century uniform) They have about 4 pounds a week to payy for *everything and the mother has to balance the books and run the house. She has been provided with a list of what items would have cost at the time but *everything* (including the mortgage and household bills) has to come out of the 4 pounds. The scenes showing them getting dressed in their period clothes for the first time were most interesting, especially the look on the 16 year old daughter's face... And her expression at the idea of washing her hair using a gel made of soap-flakes and water was an absolute *picture*.... Anyone else who saw it have any views on what was shown? Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 06:06:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA31257 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:06:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA00476; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 05:24:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA07883 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 05:06:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from snip.net (mail.snip.net [209.204.64.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA07877 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 05:06:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ouppc [209.204.81.36] by snip.net (SMTPD32-5.05) id AA2B76C011A; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:02:03 -0400 Message-ID: <000701bf067c$d318ea40$2451ccd1@ouppc> From: "Vince Lyons" To: References: <50A298B69A5@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: H-COST: 1900's House TV programme (UK) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:06:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Vince Lyons" ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 7:07 AM > -Poster: teddy1 > > "The 1900's House" is a new television programme in the UK. > > A modern family of 6 has agreed to live as a turn of the century > middle-class family for 3 months, and have been put into a house > of the period that has been refitted and decorated as it would have > been in 1900. > Ooh, this sounds like such fun! My family would have volunteered in a heartbeat! =) Is it airing only in England? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 07:20:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA31306 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:20:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04813; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:38:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA16210 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:34:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16199 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:33:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-63-12.s12.tnt3.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.63.12]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA08619 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:33:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001f01bf0688$ae3fd100$0c3faccf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <509F32A6B70@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: H-COST: 1870's child clothes question Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:31:05 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" Hi Teddy, If you might want to look at the American Dress Pattern Catalogs 1873-1909 edited by Nancy Villa Bryk. This is one of those Dover Reprints. ISBN 0-486-25654-5 I just recently used it to compare swimsuits between decades. The pictures are very small but if you scan and enlarge them you can see a lot of detail. There are children's clothes in the reprint. I have had a lot of difficulty finding magazines from the 1870s. The 1880s seem to be a little easier to find. Later... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 08:12:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA31359 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:12:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08755; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:30:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA22413 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:25:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22404 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:25:57 -0600 (MDT) From: SAQUEEN@aol.com Received: from SAQUEEN@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6LWUa10642 (4505) for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:25:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <30bad238.251cd5c4@aol.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:25:24 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: 1900's House TV programme (UK) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: SAQUEEN@aol.com Fascinating program, Teddy. Any chance we get to see it in US? Sally Calendar 2000: Historic Fashions Turning the Centuries Historic fashions' articles online at http://www.sallyqueenassociates.com/article.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 08:13:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA31363 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:13:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA08847; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:31:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA22562 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:26:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA22552 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:26:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA05646 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 07:35:27 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA09741 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:33:40 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:33:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress In-Reply-To: <50950C05344@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, teddy1 wrote: > It was clear to me, and I suspect a lot of others. Diagrams would > make it a bit clearer (of course, not really possible in this form of > communication) but on the whole I'd say you explained it extremely > clearly. Thanks! There are just SO many factors to describe in this fitting that I really feel reluctant to try to explain it, for fear people will then try it based on my incomplete description and blame me if it doesn't work because I didn't give the ALL the information. But the people on the h-cost list are more experienced than most :-) and I think are more likely to have their own experience and judgment to add to my discussion. > > And I'm sure that some people who make the same sort of four-piece > > dress have different ways of accomplishing it. > > I've done this on several people but on some (particularly the bysty > ones) I end up with the "S" shaped centre front seam. It looks > horribly lumpy on the unworn garment but gives the "right" shape > when worn. I do find I need to curve the front seam on some people -- as you said, the busty, and also more necessary with the earlier versions that have higher necks (and thus more acreage to navigate). > I must try your method of fitting, however. Getting the model to lie > down so her bits aren't fightling gravity sounds like a hoot....! Particularly when I straddle her to lace her up. Always makes for an amusing time when I'm demonstrating for a crowd. Was even funnier when I was eight months pregnant. Might be a more delicate matter for Teddy, though ;-) --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 09:05:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA31413 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:05:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13113; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:22:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA00846 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:18:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA00835 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:18:12 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00036 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:18:10 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA12899 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:18:09 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:18:09 -0500 (CDT) To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Subject: H-COST: Russian persona Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: ches@io.com What would a Muscovite man from Moscow Russia in 1599 be wearing? Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 11:00:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31560 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:00:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29335; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:17:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27761 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:13:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27746; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:13:05 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EMAWCG5V; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:12:37 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:39:41 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1900's House TV programme (UK) Message-ID: <19990924.110657.-742475.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com Am I the only one who thinks that this sounds remarkably like MTV's "Real World" only as done by re-enactors? I suppose it really falls more into the realm of experimental archeaology, but I can't help the comparison. :-) Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 11:18:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31587 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:18:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02086; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:35:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02257 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:30:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02244 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:30:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JGCUWTD4PS003E3Y@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:35:59 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JGCUWROG3O0030WM@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:35:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:28:46 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:28:26 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:28:17 +1100 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:28:17 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-COST: Raglan sleeves In-reply-to: <199909231804.MAA13091@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <51084400438@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: teddy1 I *knew* I'd seen one recently.... But I can't remember who was asking about it. Whoever you are, take a look at this.... http://152.19.254.81/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg Of course, this is the point where someone points out that raglan sleeves aren't what I think they are... Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 11:21:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31593 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:21:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02420; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:39:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA03117 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:34:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03075 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:34:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA22295 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-35.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.35]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA29903 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:34:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001801bf06ab$d9c369e0$375afea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: H-cost: Looking for McCall's Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:42:00 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Michelle" Margo, Did you try asking the fabric store for their number? If it isn't on a pattern envelope or at their website, that is the only other idea I can think of. Michelle > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >Can anyone give me the phone number for the corporate offices of McCall's >Patterns? > >their website has no contact info, not even an email link, and a Lycos >search also came up zilch. What gives? Do they have a parent corporation >name or something that I'm unaware of? > >Margo > >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 11:29:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31597 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:29:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03454; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:46:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05028 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:42:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web803.mail.yahoo.com (web803.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA05017 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:42:25 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990924165506.25419.rocketmail@web803.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web803.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:55:06 PDT Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:55:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: H-COST: re: mccall's To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sarah Toney Try the 1-800 directory... you never know... Sarah -Poster: "Michelle" Margo, Did you try asking the fabric store for their number? If it isn't on a pattern envelope or at their website, that is the only other idea I can think of. Michelle __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 11:30:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31603 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:30:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03686; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:47:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA05291 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:43:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [209.246.15.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA05211 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:43:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA19641 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id JAA21657; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:42:38 -0700 Message-ID: <37EBA9C8.FEE4E780@us.oracle.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:41:44 -0400 From: Elizabeth Jones Organization: Oracle Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume Subject: H-COST: French 1520's dress Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Jones Connie ? wrote: I have looked some and have come up pretty empty on artwork for women's French clothing in the 1520's. So if someone out there can help me find some artwork that would be appropriate I would appreciate it. 1520 corresponds to Tudor England. The main visual difference between French (Valois? I believe) and English Tudor at that time seems to be the fit of the arms, and the lack of point in the waist. I am not sure which court influenced which, and where the conical shape came from first, although dialog from Hollywood movies (always a supremely reliable source!) is making me think the French were more fashion conscious. at any rate, If you take a look at the famous tapestry cycles, like the Unicorn Hunt from the Cluny and Cloisters, you can see many examples of the earlier form of dress, circa 1500. In the tapestries you see the closer fitting "more medieval" shapes, but also these voluminous skirted gowns, of varied closures and constructions. the tapestries are really interesting, but frustrating for this reason: there are so many variations, it makes one wonder if it was imagination, allegory, or if there were really this many types. I personally think the latter, although in some cases the differences seem to be extreme. These gowns are usually square necked, but angled slightly in a trapezoidal shape. They have a V neck at the back. Deeply cut squarish armscye, and sleeves that are NOT tightly fitted in the upper arm. They have a more moderate cut than the Tudor version, and gradually get fuller. The waist lines are straight cut, and seem to be at a normal modern height. The skirts do not seem to be pleated at the front, and so must be cut in a gored or circular pattern, I think. However, the back of the skirt was pleated heavily for extra volume. The most interesting thing about these dresses (to me) is the cut seen on some of the back views. It is pieced - almost a forerunner of the "V" backed bodice that came later. However, the pieces that would be the side/back part of the front bodice (crystal clear, I know) are pieced horizontally; slightly lower than the middle of the back. Let's see: ____ \ \ / / | \ \ \ / / | \\ -\ | /---| \ | / |--- __\|/___| That's not a very good picture, but I hope it helps. I'm looking a a picture from the Cluny Collection, entitled " La Tenture de la Vie Seignuriale"., Scenes Galantes" Sorry I can't give a good translation.. Oh, there were also some neat pieces shown in the front of the bodice, that I have speculated over with friends. (Now looking at one entitled "La Broderie"/"Embroiderie") There appears to be an white underdress (I will hesitate to call it a corset, although it certainly provided form shaping), which has exposed grometts/eyelets with lacing across. Just one set is visible. This could be the shirt, but I've never seen one with eyelets and lacing. Shoulder pieces are visible also, matching the edge of the gown. Underneath this, above the front edge of the gown, is a black band, perhaps velvet. This is seen in many of the dresses, even the weirder close cut ones. I have seen similar borders of black or brown in Raphael portraits around the same time. I think that this is the underdress, as some also show shoulder pieces visible. At any rate, there is way to much variety in these things to describe well. Take a look at them, and then you can also see similar designs in Tudor England. The French versions have always seemed more moderate and comfortable to me. Also, if you can find a copy of Le Costume Civile en France, by Camille Piton (Flammarion, early 1920's?), there are a lot of pictures in that. Hope this helps! Liz Jones _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 11:44:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31618 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:44:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05808; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:02:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08810 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:57:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08795 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:57:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-173.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.173]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA02664 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:57:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990923183006.00976cc0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:30:06 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Ashelford.... In-Reply-To: <001701bf05ff$2e59ce20$3df1a2d0@default> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, > Thanks! Does anyone know if this is still in print? I'd love to >not have to ILL it any more..... I've tried to order it this year but, was told it was out of print. :( Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 11:54:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA31625 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:54:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07143; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:12:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA11354 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:07:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11341 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA10159 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:16:27 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA11238 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:14:41 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:14:41 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume Subject: Re: H-COST: French 1520's dress In-Reply-To: <37EBA9C8.FEE4E780@us.oracle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, Elizabeth Jones wrote: > at any rate, If you take a look at the famous tapestry cycles, like the > Unicorn Hunt from the Cluny and Cloisters, you can see many examples of > the earlier form of dress, circa 1500. In the tapestries you see the > closer fitting "more medieval" shapes, but also these voluminous skirted > gowns, of varied closures and constructions. the tapestries are really > interesting, but frustrating for this reason: there are so many > variations, it makes one wonder if it was imagination, allegory, or if > there were really this many types. I personally think the latter, > although in some cases the differences seem to be extreme. Allegory is certainly an issue, but on a more basic level, tapestries are notorious for mixing styles of different periods, for reasons related to their construction. Tapestries were woven based on drawings called cartoons. These were often re-used; it was not uncommon for a tapestry studio to produce multiple versions of a single scene, often with elements added or changed to meet client's needs (e.g. make it wider, add something, subtract something, etc.). Over time, portions of the cartoon might be updated, while others remained unchanged. Or the shop might mix parts of older cartoons with newer ones in a single tapestry. You get some remarkable incongruities. (Monumental brasses pose some similar problems with dating, as they also were mass-produced in shops, based on specific reusable designs.) Remember also that tapestries could take decades to weave, and parts of the design might be altered during that time. And then, when you add the element of later restorations, things could get truly weird. Remember, restorations are not just 19th and 20th century. Sections of a tapestry might have been repaired or rewoven just a few decades, or even less, after a tapestry was completed -- and the new sections might reflect slightly later fashions. There's plenty of records of tapestries that were cut apart to fit new walls, or that had pieces cut out of them to allow for a doorway or something -- and then later those pieces might be combined with others, or the original tapestry could be moved again and the gap filled in. The restorers were good, and it can be hard to tell today (at least from an image in a book) whether any parts were altered. I presume a tapestry expert, making close examination, could find the traces of additions and repairs, but based on some art-history criticisms I've seen, I suspect this approach has been neglected. Tapestries are great sources, and I love using them. For one thing, you can guarantee the colors reflect what was achievable with real dye (after you allow for fading). But I try to be very careful about dates -- I read as much as I can on the provenance of a particular tapestry (e.g. do we know when it was ordered? delivered? Are there any other known versions of the same scene?), and when I'm examining a particular dress style, I look for as many similar examples I can find in as many media as possible. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 12:12:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31650 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:12:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09808; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:29:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16287 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:24:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16273 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:24:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JGCWSP308G0033XP@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:29:50 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JGCWSNTL7E003CYX@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:29:41 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:22:43 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:22:17 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:22:14 +1100 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:22:14 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1900's House TV programme (UK) In-reply-to: <199909241631.KAA02284@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <5116A0D0C0B@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: teddy1 > Ooh, this sounds like such fun! My family would have volunteered in a > heartbeat! =) Is it airing only in England? > Fascinating program, Teddy. Any chance we get to see it in US? As far as I know it's only in the UK at present.... It's on Channel 4. I heard about it because the office next door helped with it - Museum of Domestic Design and Architecture and Silver Studio collection (contemporary to the William Morris Studio and now run as part of the University where I work) Some of our UK programmes make it out to the US though... Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 12:13:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31654 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:13:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10023; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:30:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16591 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:25:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16573 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:25:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA26554 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:25:54 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp237-135.worldonline.nl [195.241.237.135]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05212 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:25:53 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909241725.TAA05212@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: "H-COSTUME" Subject: H-COST: Maciejowski Bible Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:42:20 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Do any of you know anything about the Maciejowski Bible? It resides in the Pierpont Morgan Library, New York, Ms. 638 and has the most wonderful late 13th c people in it, I know. Where was it made, is it known who made it, which precise time period and why there is arabic written around the pictures. Has it come out in facsimile? Or are there books in which there are more illustrations than the same 4 tantalising pages you see everywhere in costume and armour books. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 12:13:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31658 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:13:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10028; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:30:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16568 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:25:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16538 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:25:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA26518 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:25:52 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp237-135.worldonline.nl [195.241.237.135]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05196 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:25:50 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909241725.TAA05196@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Books -Peacock Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:32:00 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi alle, Dawn wrote: > I worked with John about 11 years ago whilst at Morris Angels and he had > no pretensions about his book as being anything other than a timeline > over view. He was a BBC costume Designer (when they had such things in > house) and not a historian but had felt a need to to write something > that would help him and therefore others like him in there film/tv work. All I know is that there are a lot of things wrong with the drawings form Henry III - 1216-72 to Cloaks and mantles 1327-1377 and I suspect, without being able to point the finger exactly (I should look more closely for that), a lot more before and after that. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 12:13:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31662 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:13:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09976; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:30:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16560 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:25:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16531 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:25:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA26500 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:25:50 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp237-135.worldonline.nl [195.241.237.135]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05182 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:25:48 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909241725.TAA05182@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Houppelande Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:19:53 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Charles wrote: > Where did the guardecorp come from? It evolved from a garment that > pre-existed it etc. etc. etc. I don't know. I've tried to find an ancestor of the gardecorps but cannot. Of course it's basically a wide surcotte, with extra long pleated sleeves and slit near the armopening, and it has a hood. Surcottes with hoods have existed before the 13th c, but extra long, wide and pleated sleeves I haven't found anywhere. Has anybody? I spoke of evolution, and the reason I chose > the 12th century as a recomended starting point is that I know there is > portraiture of Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine in loose fitting garments > that somewhat resemble a houppelande. Could you give me a source for this? I've only seen them in mantles, ever. You don't mean the efiigies on their graves in Fontevrault? Mantles there as well. I did not mean to imply that the > houppeande started coming into being in the 12th century, but then again in a > manner of speaking...I guess it was in the process. I ask that you please > excuse my failure to adequately clarify what I meant. > Don't worry, it happens all the time and to me too. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 12:13:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31666 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:13:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10026; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:30:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16576 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:25:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16554 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:25:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA26534 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:25:53 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp237-135.worldonline.nl [195.241.237.135]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05206 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:25:51 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909241725.TAA05206@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: 1900's House TV programme (UK) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:33:33 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Teddy wrote: > "The 1900's House" is a new television programme in the UK. Is this a BBC programme? If so, when is it on? Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 12:13:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31670 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:13:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10050; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:30:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16663 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:26:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f185.law4.hotmail.com [216.33.149.185]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA16652 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:26:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 7561 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 1999 17:25:33 -0000 Message-ID: <19990924172533.7560.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 209.20.212.4 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:25:33 PDT X-Originating-IP: [209.20.212.4] From: "Tammie L. Dupuis" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: French 1520's dress Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:25:33 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Tammie L. Dupuis" Hi, There's a great text called The Valois Tapestries. Yes, tapestries can be somewhat unreliable but this will give you another source to look at. I've found this book at most large libraries. If you're really desperate, I can scan in pix and put them up on my website. The tapestries have a somewhat Italian flavor to them, which is hardly surprising, given whom they were made for and when. Let me know if you'd like to view some scans... Laurellen ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 12:15:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31674 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:15:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10287; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:31:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA16912 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:26:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16902 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:26:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JGCWV6PZMO003BU2@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:31:55 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JGCWV4UFT0003CYX@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:31:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:24:43 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:24:26 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:24:21 +1100 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:24:20 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: Re: H-COST: 1870's child clothes question In-reply-to: <199909241631.KAA02284@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <5117331188C@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: teddy1 Hi Penny > If you might want to look at the American Dress Pattern Catalogs 1873-1909 > edited by Nancy Villa Bryk. This is one of those Dover Reprints. ISBN > 0-486-25654-5 I just recently used it to compare swimsuits between > decades. The pictures are very small but if you scan and enlarge them you > can see a lot of detail. There are children's clothes in the reprint. I > have had a lot of difficulty finding magazines from the 1870s. The 1880s > seem to be a little easier to find. Thanks, I'll see if we have it in stock here, or request it on ILL. I don't have much luck with scanners but I'll see what I can do... Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 12:24:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31684 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:24:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA12778; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:41:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19438 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:37:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19423 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:37:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JGCX83R76O001ENA@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:42:19 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JGCX80XEHY0039P8@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:42:04 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:35:06 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:34:49 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:34:46 +1100 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:34:46 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress In-reply-to: <199909241631.KAA02284@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <5119F7D2630@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: teddy1 > I do find I need to curve the front seam on some people -- as you said, > the busty, and also more necessary with the earlier versions that have > higher necks (and thus more acreage to navigate). That's the ones (I've never tried one of the *really* low-cut ones for fear of it slipping off the shoulders and then the bodice sliding down under the weight of the breasts...) The higher cut ones, I've found sometimes need the CF seam to be curved back in again at the top to avoid unsightly neckline-gape. > > I must try your method of fitting, however. Getting the model to lie > > down so her bits aren't fightling gravity sounds like a hoot....! > > Particularly when I straddle her to lace her up. Always makes for an > amusing time when I'm demonstrating for a crowd. Was even funnier when I > was eight months pregnant. > > Might be a more delicate matter for Teddy, though ;-) Probably not, actually. I can't imagine mere fittings being a problem as seem to have an exemption which allows me into the Ladies' changing rooms and toilets. Judging by the comments when it happens it's called, "Of course *you're* allowed in!" or "It's only *Teddy*, he doesn't count!" Besides which, who else would they get to unlace and strip off gown, under-gown corset and chemise, put on new chemise, relace corset, new undergown, new overgown and put on headdress for the girls who only have 15 minutes to change for court....? Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 12:31:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31701 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:31:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13878; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:48:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA21122 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:44:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f16.hotmail.com [216.32.181.16]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA21111 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:44:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 22277 invoked by uid 0); 24 Sep 1999 17:43:49 -0000 Message-ID: <19990924174349.22276.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 165.248.247.16 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:43:49 PDT X-Originating-IP: [165.248.247.16] From: "Tara German" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: organ pipe pleats-- from the confused Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:43:49 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Tara German" >not really because the skirt is attached like cartridge pleating: > >doublet >| >| >|---- > skirt Oh dear. Just when I thought I understood, now I'm completely confused again...and I have the Payne book too. >Yes, for each pleat, the skirt is folded on the pleat line, good >sides together. A seam is sewn from the waist to the hem. How far from the fold are you stitching? Is this where the 3/4" comes in? >(this must be done after lining, banding, decorations, and finishing >is completed) So the top edge is not a raw edge, but is finished with the lining, right? >from a Sideways perspective, looking down on the top of the skirt >after pinching it should look kind of like this: >( >( >( >( >( >( >But each curve has a little seam where they touch edges. This means that each tube isn't actually closed all the way around? If not, that's why I'm so confused. >It pinches the fabric into an arc on the outside Are you cartridge pleating it on by taking a few stitches at the top of each arc? Doesn't the weight of the skirt pull it down so it is no longer an arc but a point? Sorry to be so dumb. Is there a book or a webpage somewhere with diagrams that I can look at? I've seen the directions in _The Art of Manipulating Fabric_ and what they describe is something totally different. Tara ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 12:44:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA31731 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:44:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15789; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:02:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24297 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:57:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24291 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:57:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-224-206.s206.tnt6.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [216.164.224.206]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id NAA18528; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:57:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001b01bf06b7$b1d6f620$cee0a4d8@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" , Subject: H-COST: skirt guards Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:07:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" I've just begun to make my first German Ren, but am still in the planning the pattern stage. What I have is 6yrd of lavendar/greyish heavy linen and would like to use black cotton velveteen for the guards. I've done guards at the neckline before, but never on a skirt. I have two questions. A) will the velvet make the linen skirt drap differently and B) should the guards be applied to the skirt pieces, then the skirt sewn together or should the skirt be sewn together and then the guards sewn to the finished skirt? Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 12:48:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32015 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:48:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16294; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:06:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA25301 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:01:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA25291 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:01:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.405) with smtp for sender: id ; Fri, 24 Sep 99 13:01:47 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <00f701bf06b6$662e7b40$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: French 1520's dress Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:58:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" No that is ok, although I appreciate the offer though. I will go to the libraries to see if I can find that book. Thank you, Carol Ross -----Original Message----- From: Tammie L. Dupuis To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 12:31 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: French 1520's dress > >-Poster: "Tammie L. Dupuis" > >Hi, > >There's a great text called The Valois Tapestries. Yes, tapestries can be >somewhat unreliable but this will give you another source to look at. I've >found this book at most large libraries. If you're really desperate, I can >scan in pix and put them up on my website. > >The tapestries have a somewhat Italian flavor to them, which is hardly >surprising, given whom they were made for and when. > >Let me know if you'd like to view some scans... > >Laurellen > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 13:05:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA32178 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:05:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA18575; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:22:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA28964 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:17:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28956 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:17:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA11612 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:26:26 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id NAA11786 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:24:41 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:24:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: H-COSTUME Subject: Re: H-COST: Maciejowski Bible In-Reply-To: <199909241725.TAA05212@worldonline.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, Henk 't Jong wrote: > Do any of you know anything about the Maciejowski Bible? > It resides in the Pierpont Morgan Library, New York, Ms. 638 and has the > most wonderful late 13th c people in it, I know. Where was it made, is it > known who made it, which precise time period and why there is arabic > written around the pictures. > > Has it come out in facsimile? Or are there books in which there are more > illustrations than the same 4 tantalising pages you see everywhere in > costume and armour books. My books are packed, so I can't be absolutely certain this is the same manuscript, but I can't imagine there being another one like this! If it's the one I'm thinking of, there was a wonderful facsimile edition put out in the 1960s by Braziller, under the title "Old Testament Miniatures." The book is coffee-table sized, has more than 200 huge color pictures, and is absolutely gorgeous. You should be able to find more detail on this book if you search the database of a university library. I have used library copies of this book on and off for years, and this year at Kalamazoo I finally sprang for my own copy. It normally goes for about $125 at the used book stalls, but I found one for $65, hurrah. I need to repair the binding a bit, but I buy these things for the pictures, not the bindings. Henk, if you haven't found a copy through the usual used market by May, I will pick one up for you at K'zoo if you like. I've seen copies surface at the used stalls there every year. I can't guarantee you'll get such a good price, though! One of the interesting points about the manuscript for paleographers is that it has three languages -- Latin (I think), Arabic, and Hebrew. Two of them are handwritten glosses in the margins, presumably translations or commentary, apparently added by various owners of the book. I forget the details, and my own copy is buried somewhere in the packing boxes. (I seem to be saying that a lot these days, don't I?) --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 14:10:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA32315 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:10:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26957; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:26:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12370 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:21:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12344 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:21:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn43.pm3-3.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.162]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA01717 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:21:13 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <007701bf06c2$6f2549c0$a2f0a2d0@default> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: References: <51084400438@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Subject: Re: H-COST: Raglan sleeves Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:24:26 -0600 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" Wow - all that AND the infamous Air-Filter Hat.... But it looks like a raglan sleeve to me too.... Liadain > I *knew* I'd seen one recently.... But I can't remember who was > asking about it. > Whoever you are, take a look at this.... > > http://152.19.254.81/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg > > Of course, this is the point where someone points out that raglan > sleeves aren't what I think they are... > > > > Teddy > (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of > air and darkness, apparently!) > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 14:16:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA32319 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:16:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28320; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:34:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA14414 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:30:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com (ms3.phoenix.com [134.122.1.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA14401 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:30:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 8:29:21 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: Plaid T-tunics at St Francis of Assisi exhibit Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:28:01 -0700 Message-ID: <000301bf06a1$640f9f70$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" Yesterday, I saw something I've never seen in any of the medieval illuminations, paintings or frescoes: gentlemen wearing plaid T-tunics. Even more shocking the tunics (2 matching, 1 in a larger scale) were in a color combo that the roaring '20s would call "artichoke & coral". Admittedly, I'm fairly new to anything earlier than about 1802 costuming - mostly I live & dance in the 19th c., but is this plaid stuff wildly atypcial? It's not clear who these guys are supposed to be, where they're supposed to be from. I'm not familiar with any of the hagiography to make a reasonable guess. Photo of fresco on display at the Palace of the Legion of Honor, SFrancisco - as you enter the PLA, turn right, back of the hall on the left. Simon Martini (active 1284-1344) "St. Martin being Knighted by Emperor Julian". This fresco is from the the Chapel of St Martin, lower church in the Basilica of St Francis, Assisi, Italy. Disappointingly, it's not reproduced in the tour catalogs or on the postcards. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 14:41:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA32386 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:41:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02920; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:59:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19996 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:54:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA19965 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:54:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA13505 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:02:50 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA12427 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:01:05 -0500 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:01:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress In-Reply-To: <5119F7D2630@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, teddy1 wrote: > That's the ones (I've never tried one of the *really* low-cut ones for > fear of it slipping off the shoulders and then the bodice sliding down > under the weight of the breasts...) I've never had that problem. I've found the close-to-the-body armhole and the tension on the neckline (which is a curve pulled wider) hug the dress right to the body. It sure *looks* precarious, though! Remember to make sure the breasts are in their maximum highest position while you're fitting, so they can't bounce out in wear -- doing some fitting while lying down is essential. (Hmm, maybe gravity boots ... ;-D ) > The higher cut ones, I've > found sometimes need the CF seam to be curved back in again at > the top to avoid unsightly neckline-gape. Yep. I make lacing holes fairly early on in the process, but I don't do the top two or three sets of holes till I'm sure I don't need to shape that top inch or two of center opening. > Besides which, who else would they get to unlace and strip off > gown, under-gown corset and chemise, put on new chemise, > relace corset, new undergown, new overgown and put on > headdress for the girls who only have 15 minutes to change for > court....? Hey, I'll take you here anytime! My husband can barely lace. I've also given up on teaching him how to braid my hair. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 14:49:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA32459 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:49:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04222; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:06:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA21776 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:01:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA21770 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:01:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.200]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:01:53 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Plaid T-tunics at St Francis of Assisi exhibit Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:58:39 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37ecd632.57953076@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <000301bf06a1$640f9f70$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> In-Reply-To: <000301bf06a1$640f9f70$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id OAA21772 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:28:01 -0700, the following was written in this electric book by "Cynthia Barnes" : > >-Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" > > >Yesterday, I saw something I've never seen in any of the medieval >illuminations, paintings or frescoes: gentlemen wearing plaid T-tunics. >Even more shocking the tunics (2 matching, 1 in a larger scale) were in a >color combo that the roaring '20s would call "artichoke & coral". >Admittedly, I'm fairly new to anything earlier than about 1802 costuming - >mostly I live & dance in the 19th c., but is this plaid stuff wildly >atypcial? It's not clear who these guys are supposed to be, where they're >supposed to be from. I'm not familiar with any of the hagiography to make a >reasonable guess. Checked or plaid and striped fabrics are among the oldest form of patterned fabrics, becasue they could be woven into plain weave fabrics with no special equipment or skills besides changing shuttles. Examples of checked or plaid fabrics and garment fragments have been dug up at archaeological sites throughout the world, from all periods where weaving products have been preserved, except for egypt (that I have been able to find...). I would guess that, as plaids/checks are difficult to draw attractively in small representations (not to mention busy), they were worn, but simply left out of many depictions for efficiency's sake. There is a fragment of a sleeve, dug up in London, that dateds form the 14thc. It is a brownish plaid now, but was apparently blue and white at the time it was new. Correct me if I'm wrong about the colours, I'm packing to move and don't want to dig it out... Hope this was somewhat helpful. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 14:49:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA32468 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:49:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04414; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:07:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22152 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:03:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22139 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:03:31 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.222] (ppp222.creative.net [208.225.99.222]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA06272 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:06:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <000301bf06a1$640f9f70$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:10:41 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Plaid T-tunics at St Francis of Assisi exhibit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: lilinah@grin.net Cynthia Barnes wrote: >Yesterday, I saw something I've never seen in any of the medieval >illuminations, paintings or frescoes: gentlemen wearing plaid T-tunics. Ah, you haven't been looking at the "right" medieval illuminations :-) "Plaid" cloth was woven in the Middle East (likely elsewhere, but my knowledge is limited). It is visible in a number of "Medieval" manuscript paintings from Egypt and Syria, often as an undertunic. Some textile fragments of woven linen survive in museums. Most of those i've seen are white, brown, and indigo, but some have design elements of red and/or yellow. Remember, weaving a "plaid" pattern is much easier than weaving silk brocade or voided velvet. You just alternate the colored thread as you warp the loom and use two or three shuttles as you weave. No complex equipment, no special pick-up patterns. Real simple and straight forward. It is true that one rarely sees such material in Medieval European paintings. But i have come to doubt that one is seeing a true representation of fabric and dye colors in pre-Renaissance Europe manuscript illuminations. Remember the palatte of the painter and the palette of the dyer are not the same, and the art is highly stylized, not naturalistic. The artist is painting from his imagination, almost never from "life". The more i learn about painting and pigment and the more i learn about Medieval dyes and weaving, the more i come to doubt that i can reconstruct fabric patterns and colors from illuminations. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 14:54:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA32502 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:54:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05163; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:12:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA22978 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:07:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web802.mail.yahoo.com (web802.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.23.62]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA22970 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:07:15 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990924202021.13554.rocketmail@web802.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [208.247.217.34] by web802.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:20:21 PDT Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:20:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Sarah Toney Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Sarah Toney > I've never had that problem. I've found the > close-to-the-body armhole and > the tension on the neckline (which is a curve pulled > wider) hug the dress > right to the body. It sure *looks* precarious, > though! Remember to make > sure the breasts are in their maximum highest > position while you're > fitting, so they can't bounce out in wear -- doing > some fitting while > lying down is essential. (Hmm, maybe gravity boots > ... ;-D ) Uh-oh... the Lucy Lawless syndrome... no, seriously, though... I have never, ever had the "falling out" problem with my 40D's... and I run after "bad guys with swords" in my dresses... most of mine are tight to the body, so I think that holds things in. > Hey, I'll take you here anytime! My husband can > barely lace. I've also > given up on teaching him how to braid my hair. You even tried? Dear me... mine can't even knot his tie... I can't imagine what he would do to my hair (he could probably KNOT that!) I actually have a guy friend who does braids and lacing better than any woman I know... when I am at my live action weekends, he tends to come right in to the women's dressing areas... no one minds because it is "just him..." then again, women also using him for the boyfriend sounding post "don't you just hate men?" they say "er, no" he replies... It is really amusing... Sarah Sarah > > --Robin > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 14:59:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA32539 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:59:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05871; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:17:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA24212 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:12:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24189 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:12:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id NAA23507; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:13:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37EBDBAA.AAE3B885@serv.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:14:34 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Plaid T-tunics at St Francis of Assisi exhibit References: <000301bf06a1$640f9f70$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > but is this plaid stuff wildly atypcial? > Photo of fresco on display at the Palace of the Legion of Honor, > SFrancisco - as you enter the PLA, turn right, back of the hall on the left. > Simon Martini (active 1284-1344) What I can tell you is this. In the Museum of London Textiles and Clothing book one of the sets of sleeves found is a red and white check! You have to look really close to see the checks because everything turned brown while in the dirt, but you *can* see the checks. Red and white! Cool! The medieval person *loved* color from what I can tell so why not artichoke and coral? Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 15:16:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32620 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:16:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08469; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:34:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA28053 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:29:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net (wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net [192.48.96.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28038 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:28:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jwilbur1 by wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: og3pool109-80.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.109.80]) id QQhicg11801 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:30:34 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:32:04 -0400 Subject: Re: H-COST: Ashelford.... Priority: normal In-reply-to: <3.0.1.32.19990923183006.00976cc0@mail.interlog.com> References: <001701bf05ff$2e59ce20$3df1a2d0@default> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > > -Poster: Danielle Nunn > > Greetings, > > > Thanks! Does anyone know if this is still in print? I'd love to > >not have to ILL it any more..... > > I've tried to order it this year but, was told it was out of print. :( I did a search on bibliofind.com, and managed to obtain a copy through a bookseller in the UK just a few months ago. I've just done another search on bibliofind, but didn't find one there. However, I did a search on bookfinder.com, and turned up one copy, through Advanced Book Exchange. The dealer is John Ives Bookseller, also presumably in the UK, since the price is 13 pounds, 50 pence (sorry, I can't seem to make the pound symbol with my keyboard!) If you go to http://www.bookfinder.com and type in the author's name and title, you should be able to find the info. You can then send an email to the dealer to see if they still have a copy in stock (book search web pages are sometimes out of date, and by the time you send the email, the book has already been sold. I know this from sad experience.) You could probably also go directly to the ABE web site, but I find Bookfinder much more user- friendly. Good luck! --Jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 15:21:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA32659 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:21:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09049; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:39:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA29330 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:34:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29321 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:34:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mai040RS1.lib.ohio-state.edu (mai040rs1.lib.ohio-state.edu [128.146.115.31]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA04301 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990924163841.006cf88c@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: mhamilto@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:38:41 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Subject: Re: H-COST: Maciejowski Bible In-Reply-To: <199909241725.TAA05212@worldonline.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Hello Henk & Pauline, I did some searching and came up with the following. Cardinal Maciejowski held the manuscript in the 17th century but it is known by several names apparently. There is a website for a reproduction of the full manuscript pieced together from three different extant copies, at: Looks like it would cost a bundle and no indication it is out BUT... the website gives a full history of the manuscript(s) and explains why the added Latin text has Persian and Hebrew translations in the margins. Is the site accurate? Who knows! But its a good place to start. They refer to it as the "Morgan Crusader Bible of Louis IX." 283 illustrations with later additions of Latin, Persian and Hebrew text. Marsha ----------------------------- >Do any of you know anything about the Maciejowski Bible? >It resides in the Pierpont Morgan Library, New York, Ms. 638 and has the >most wonderful late 13th c people in it, I know. Where was it made, is it >known who made it, which precise time period and why there is arabic >written around the pictures. > >Has it come out in facsimile? Or are there books in which there are more >illustrations than the same 4 tantalising pages you see everywhere in >costume and armour books. > >Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 15:52:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00376 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:52:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13467; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:09:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA06066 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:03:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu [128.146.214.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06050 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:03:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mai040RS1.lib.ohio-state.edu (mai040rs1.lib.ohio-state.edu [128.146.115.31]) by mail2.uts.ohio-state.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA11442 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:03:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990924170757.006c6a28@pop.service.ohio-state.edu> X-Sender: mhamilto@pop.service.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:07:57 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Subject: Re: H-COST: Maciejowski Bible-more! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Marsha J. Hamilton" Henk, "Old Testament Miniatures" by Sydney Cockerell is indeed available with (many? all?) of the illustrations of the Maciejowski Bible. Do a web search on: http://www.bookfinder.com Then search under the title Old Testament Miniatures. You'll get screen after screen of copies of the London and New York editions with descriptions, costing anywhere from $65 - $200 (US). I didn't go through the whole list but there might be some booksellers geographically closer to you, since bookfinder is an international database. The terms of sale from each bookseller are clickable too. I use "bookfinder" all the time in my capacity as the Monographs Librarian at the Ohio State University Libraries. Happy hunting. Marsha -------------------------------------- >Do any of you know anything about the Maciejowski Bible? ........ >Has it come out in facsimile? Or are there books in which there are more >illustrations than the same 4 tantalising pages you see everywhere in >costume and armour books. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 17:57:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00579 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:57:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28425; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:08:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01131 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:58:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01125 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:58:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA22406 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:55:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004701bf06e0$acd75f60$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Books -Peacock Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:01:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings-- I can appreciate why Peacock wrote the book, and as an overview guide for theatrical costuming, it probably fills the bill quite nicely. However, I have, on a number of occasions, had people come to me wanting me to make them something shown in Peacock, quite under the impression that it's historically accurate. Someone actually told me, "I bought this from (name of SCA bookseller) and they wouldn't sell anything that wasn't any good." Some have been pretty insistent that it's a "good" (as in accurate) source, based on its scope and the fact that you can find it easily. I have also watched friends make something based on something on Peacock, decide to enter it into a competition, and then spend way too many fruitless hours trying to find the source for "that outfit." That's why the Peacock book frustrates me. If folks would use it the way I think it was intended to be used, we wouldn't have this problem. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 18:16:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00605 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:16:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00932; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:32:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05980 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:27:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta1-svc.virgin.net (mta1-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05973 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:27:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.64.95]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990924232801.MGZR5188.mta1-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:28:01 +0100 Message-ID: <37EC6CB5.37B8@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:33:25 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 1900's House TV programme (UK) References: <50A298B69A5@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dawn teddy1 wrote: > > -Poster: teddy1 > > "The 1900's House" is a new television programme in the UK. > > > > Anyone else who saw it have any views on what was shown? > > Yes I saw it and thought it was very well done particularly as the family are 'real' and not re-enactor types which means they haven't any preconceived notions. It will be very interesting to see how they go on Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 18:17:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00609 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:17:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA01038; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:34:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06279 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:29:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06273 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:29:38 -0600 (MDT) From: sustre@pixelations.com Received: from [209.244.231.47] (dialup-209.244.231.47.Boston2.Level3.net [209.244.231.47]) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA04448 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:29:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: amanda@pixelations.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:33:22 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: sustre@pixelations.com Thanks Robin! The diagram helps a lot. I'm eager to try it! -Amanda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 18:26:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA00615 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:26:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02054; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:43:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA07632 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:38:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07623 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 17:38:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bragg (bragg [129.127.36.34]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA25999 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:08:26 +0930 (CST) Received: by bragg; (5.65/1.1.8.2/05Aug95-0227PM) id AA25265; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:08:26 +0930 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:08:26 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant X-Sender: csmart@bragg To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Houppelande In-Reply-To: <199909241725.TAA05182@worldonline.nl> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, Henk 't Jong wrote: > > Charles wrote: > > Where did the guardecorp come from? It evolved from a garment that > > pre-existed it etc. etc. etc. > > I don't know. I've tried to find an ancestor of the gardecorps but cannot. > Of course it's basically a wide surcotte, with extra long pleated sleeves > and slit near the armopening, and it has a hood. Surcottes with hoods have > existed before the 13th c, but extra long, wide and pleated sleeves I > haven't found anywhere. Has anybody? > Perhaps they just evolved as a kind of status symbol (after all, they do seem to have been worn largely by professional men). Looking at manuscript pictures the sleeves of gardecorps vary wildly in length and width. I wonder what a survey of gardecorps sleeve sizes correlated with manuscript dates would reveal ie are the shorter skinnier ones all in the early part of the 13th century? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 19:00:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00654 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:00:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04969; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:16:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA12064 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:10:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com (ms3.phoenix.com [134.122.1.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA12041 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:30:46 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: Cc: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: RE: Charles de Blois Pourpoint pattern Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:29:21 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bf06ba$ba445f70$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" >It makes sense, then, that you see that "grande assiette" construction almost exclusively on pictures of young noblemen, knights, fighter-types. Not on old, fat, or skinny guys. What's a "grande assiette"? Yeah, I got "big plate", but what does this term mean in a tailoring context? I'm guessing it's the size of the armhole. Is this a modern or contemp term? Oh. I hadnt noticed the typical wearer. I see so many of the dancing Italian men wearing this sort of thing, too. That's what I'd noticed. There's a group of dancing men nearby who'd look just dishy in somthing like this. Perhaps a plot is in order... or some barter... >Another tip on the poupoint: I built the lining on the man's body first, then (while he was wearing it), I laid cotton padding over the lining to smooth out and build up the chest. Quilting. OK, I'm a quilter I can do this. The Charles the Bold jacque (screaming red silk satin) is clearly quilted tho' not much batt based on the sm pic of it lying flat as shown in Boucher. The CdBlois pourpoint is always shown on the stand. How much batt or domette? How much is the stand the padding and the p'point. Are you just smoothing muscle line & body hollows as per interfacing in modern tailoring or are you reshaping the body more extremely? I've envisioned maybe 1 layer of "warm & natural" batt or even lighter, like domette. Possibly 2-3 tapered layers to fill in the hollow of the pecs & shoulder. What I'm really questioning is whether that dancing stance is just a body stance, artistic license or whether it's 1"+ of padding to form that "peacock" chest. Likely, y'all are going to say it's some of each. >found I had to keep cutting in to give him free arm movement that wouldn't rip the back open. This is easier to show in person, I think! ... This particular one is probably still walking around the Milwaukee area, though Rats. I'd love to see it up close. You dont end up in Northern CA much, by any chance, do you? Actually, your descriptions make plenty of sense, perhaps because I tailor and fashion close fitting bodices in the 19th & 20th c modes. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Barnes@PICO@PTLSANJOSE Sent: Friday, September 24, 1999 8:02 AM To: Cynthia Barnes@PICO@PTLSANJOSE Subject: Charles de Blois Pourpoint pattern From: Robin Netherton Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 23:24:46 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: H-COST: Charles de Blois Pourpoint pattern - -Poster: Robin Netherton On Wed, 22 Sep 1999, Cynthia Barnes wrote: > In Naomi Tarrant's book "Development of Costume", she has a rough line > drawing of the Charles de Blois Pourpoint pattern. She references a circa > 1929? article where someone took a pattern. Has anyone seen this source? > Is it of reasonable quality to use for a pattern template? I'm not > expecting JArnold or JHunnniset contruction details, but I would like some > idea of where the ease is (if any), where and what shaping materials to use > and a picture of the back contruction. Blanche Payne has an excellent graphed pattern of this in the back of the FIRST edition of her History of Costume. I don't think it's in the second edition. You might be able to find a copy of the first edition at a library; it's scarce now. My copy is someone's old college text, all marked up and with some pictures cut out, but the patterns intact, hurrah. Combining the pattern with her photo of the front of the pourpoint and a close up of a bit of the inside, and Stella Mary Newton's photo of a different angle in Black Prince, I was able to come up with a pretty credible pourpoint. My most interesting discovery in making that one -- those deep scooped armholes are actually necessary to fit a man with good upper-body musculature. I derived the same cut by working on a muscular man's body, and placing the seams where I needed to accommodate muscle stretching. They ended up falling almost exactly where Charles de Blois' had, though I hadn't intended to replicate the deep armholes when I started -- I was just going to make a close-fitting pourpoint, and found I had to keep cutting in to give him free arm movement that wouldn't rip the back open. This is easier to show in person, I think! It makes sense, then, that you see that "grande assiette" construction almost exclusively on pictures of young noblemen, knights, fighter-types. Not on old, fat, or skinny guys. As for the sleeves themselves, I took one look at the bizarre combination of trangles and curves in the Payne pattern, said "I can make no sense of this," and closed the book. Instead, I draped the fabric over the man's shoulders and arms, laid the bias where I needed stretch and grain where I wanted structure, pinned the fabric to the open cut edge of the armhole, dropped in a gore to fill the triangular space left at the fabric's edge - -- and when I took it off and looked at what I had, it was almost exactly the same shape as the Charles de Blois sleeve. OK, so it did make sense after all. The lower sleeve construction I've used before on fitted dresses. It looks odd, but you have to bear in mind that the deep point of that curved V falls at the inside of the elbow, and the larger wings wrap to the outside, over the elbow. I had derived this part of the construction on a body, before I ever saw the Charles de Blois pattern, by fitting fabric around an arm bent at 45 degrees. Why 45 degrees? Because that's the neutral point. If you fit to a straight arm, you won't be able to bend it. If you fit to a tightly bent arm, it wrinkles too much when you straighten it. But I digress. Another tip on the poupoint: I built the lining on the man's body first, then (while he was wearing it), I laid cotton padding over the lining to smooth out and build up the chest. (The man was a little lopsided in build, and he wanted me to even him out. Usually I hear that from women!) I laid on a level of interlining over the padding, tacked the layers down, then upholstered the outer fabric over all the padding. The finished piece fit perfectly smoothly. If I had quilted the fabric while it was flat and then pieced it together, I would have ended up with a lot of internal wrinkles and lumps, I think. Also: Shape the underarm piece of the sleeve very close against the man's underarm, so he can lift his arm up fairly high without hindrance. I've forgotten the rest. It was three years ago, and I haven't made any since. This particular one is probably still walking around the Milwaukee area, though; I made it for a person to wear in the SCA. - --Robin, who should be working and not reading h-cost --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 19:00:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00660 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:00:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04979; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:16:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA12081 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:11:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com (ms3.phoenix.com [134.122.1.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA12070 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:10:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:00:25 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: re: 1870's child clothes question Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:59:02 -0700 Message-ID: <000001bf06ae$1bf1a280$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" >I have had a lot of difficulty finding magazines from the 1870s. >The 1880s seem to be a little easier to find. Search abebooks.com for 19th c. original magazines. They're a bit rich for my blood. Cut you a deal: I have 30+ original patterns from the "Journal Des Demoiselles", 4-6 per sheet (1864-1913). You buy (rent/borrow) the mags, color xerox the pictures, include text. I'll copy the pattern & translate the french. Then we gotta great trade! To the original poster: Harper's Bazaar has some nice upper middle class outfits pictured. No patts. (Dover reprint.) http://dogbert.abebooks.com/abe/BooksBrowse Listing from the site: 4. Journal Des Demoiselles/ 46ème Année Paris: Au Bureau Du Journal, Rue Drouot, 1878 4to - over 9¾" - 12" tall. 15 Planches sur acier en couleurs. Percaline d'éditeur rouge. Book # 87 FFr 750.00 (approx. 118.04 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 5. Journal Des Demoiselles/ 51ème Année Paris: Au Bureau Du Journal, Rue Drouot, 1883 4to - over 9¾" - 12" tall. 16 Planches sur acier en couleurs. Percaline d'éditeur rouge. Book # 88 FFr 800.00 (approx. 125.90 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 6. Journal Des Demoiselles/ 50ème Année Paris: Au Bureau Du Journal, Rue Drouot, 1882 4to - over 9¾" - 12" tall. 11 Planches sur acier en couleurs. Percaline d'éditeur rouge. Book # 89 FFr 550.00 (approx. 86.56 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 7. Journal Des Demoiselles/ 44ème Année Paris: Au Bureau Du Journal, Rue Drouot, 1876 4to - over 9¾" - 12" tall. 13 Planches sur acier en couleurs. Percaline d'éditeur rouge. Book # 90 FFr 650.00 (approx. 102.30 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 8. Journal Des Demoiselles/ 43ème Année Paris: Au Bureau Du Journal, Rue Drouot, 1875 4to - over 9¾" - 12" tall. 11 Planches sur acier en couleurs. Percaline d'éditeur rouge. Book # 91 FFr 550.00 (approx. 86.56 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 9. Journal Des Demoiselles/ 48ème Année Paris: Au Bureau Du Journal, Rue Drouot, 1880 4to - over 9¾" - 12" tall. 15 Planches sur acier en couleurs. Percaline d'éditeur rouge. Book # 92 FFr 750.00 (approx. 118.04 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 10. Journal Des Demoiselles/ 41ème Année Paris: Au Bureau Du Journal, Rue Drouot, 1873 4to - over 9¾" - 12" tall. 11 Planches sur acier en couleurs. Percaline d'éditeur rouge. Book # 93 FFr 550.00 (approx. 86.56 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 11. Journal Des Demoiselles/ 52ème Année Paris: Au Bureau Du Journal, Rue Drouot, 1884 4to - over 9¾" - 12" tall. 16 Planches sur acier en couleurs. Percaline d'éditeur rouge. Book # 94 FFr 800.00 (approx. 125.90 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 12. Journal Des Demoiselles/ 47ème Année Paris: Au Bureau Du Journal, Rue Drouot, 1879 4to - over 9¾" - 12" tall. 15 Planches sur acier en couleurs. Percaline d'éditeur rouge. Book # 95 FFr 750.00 (approx. 118.04 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 13. La Mode Illustrée Paris: Librairie Firmin-Didot, 1878 48 planches en couleurs sur 52. Book # 12 FFr 4800.00 (approx. 755.42 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 14. La Mode Illustrée Paris: Librairie Firmin-Didot, 1879 35 planches en couleurs sur 52. Book # 13 FFr 3500.00 (approx. 550.83 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 15. La Mode Illustrée Paris: Librairie Firmin-Didot, 1880 30 planches en couleurs sur 52. Book # 14 FFr 3000.00 (approx. 472.14 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 16. La Mode Illustrée Paris: Librairie Firmin-Didot, 1877 48 planches en couleurs sur 52. Book # 15 FFr 4800.00 (approx. 755.42 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 17. La Mode Illustrée Paris: Librairie Firmin-Didot, 1883 48 planches en couleurs sur 52. Book # 16 FFr 4800.00 (approx. 755.42 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 18. La Mode Illustrée Paris: Librairie Firmin-Didot, 1882 44 planches en couleurs sur 52. Book # 17 FFr 4400.00 (approx. 692.47 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 19. La Mode Illustrée Paris: Librairie Firmin-Didot, 1876 49 planches en couleurs sur 52. Book # 18 FFr 4900.00 (approx. 771.16 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 20. La Mode Illustrée Paris: Librairie Firmin-Didot, 1881 45 planches en couleurs sur 52. Book # 19 FFr 4500.00 (approx. 708.21 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 21. La Mode Illustrée Paris: Librairie Firmin-Didot, 1885 51 planches en couleurs sur 52. Book # 20 FFr 5100.00 (approx. 802.64 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 22. La Mode Illustrée Paris: Librairie Firmin-Didot, 1884 47 planches en couleurs sur 52. Book # 21 FFr 4700.00 (approx. 739.69 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 23. La Mode Illustrée Paris: Librairie Firmin-Didot, 1887 52 planches en couleurs. Book # 22 FFr 5200.00 (approx. 818.38 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 24. La Mode Illustrée Paris: Librairie Firmin-Didot, 1886 52 planches en couleurs. Book # 23 FFr 5200.00 (approx. 818.38 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 25. La Mode Illustrée Paris: Librairie Firmin-Didot, 1888 53 planches en couleurs. 2 planches légèrement abimées. Book # 24 FFr 5300.00 (approx. 834.11 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 26. La Mode Illustrée Paris: Librairie Firmin-Didot, 1889 49 planches en couleurs sur 52. Book # 25 FFr 4900.00 (approx. 771.16 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 27. La Mode Illustrée Paris: Librairie Firmin-Didot, 1891 52 planches en couleurs. Book # 26 FFr 5200.00 (approx. 818.38 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. 28. La Mode Illustrée Paris: Librairie Firmin-Didot, 1890 52 planches en couleurs. Book # 27 FFr 5200.00 (approx. 818.38 American Dollars) Please contact Pingel Olivier for more information about purchasing this book. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 19:49:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA00712 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:49:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA09032; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:06:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA18110 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:00:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com (ms3.phoenix.com [134.122.1.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA18105 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:00:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from cbarnes by ptlsjlab1.phoenix.com via 134.122.3.107 with SMTP-TCP; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 9:07:28 -0700 From: "Cynthia Barnes" To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: H-COST: counter argument:on NOT going into business Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:06:05 -0700 Message-ID: <000401bf06a6$b6c53ae0$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Cynthia Barnes" >Keep records. If this is a business, all your expenses are tax deductible. If you have a room in your house completely devoted to the business, you can deduct a portion of your utilities and property taxes as a business expense. Major items may need to be depreciated over several tax years. OTOH, *not* going into biz means you can continue to deduct the cost of relevant costumes, classes, travel food & hotel for overnite events, books(!) and supplies if you itemize. Durable goods (including the expensive sewing machine) are under slightly different rules. I've been deducting 1-3K off the "top" for 8 years now. (I consider this a 28% discount on fabric, books. Add that to the typical musuem volunteer's 10-15% discount and you really have a racket.) Caveat: you *must* be a member of a IRS 501c(3) or similarly setup non-profit. The uniforms (costumes) must be required for you to properly perform your voluntary efforts. Some examples: costumed docent at a Calif State Historical Park, performing member of a historical dance troupe. Should you go into biz, you will lose many of these advantages. You will however exchange one deduction on books (as a volunteer) for a deduction as a cost of doing biz. >If you have a room in your house completely devoted to the business, you can deduct a portion of your utilities and property taxes as a business expense. True, however, you must itemize *and* own the property. >I'm not a lawyer or accountant, these are just some suggestions based on my experience. Ditto what she said... plus all my info is USA/Calif oriented. --cin Cynthia Barnes 408.570.1023 Cynthia_Barnes@phoenix.com Phoenix Technologies 411 E. Plumeria Dr. San Jose CA 95134 "I think animal testing is a terrible idea; they get all nervous and give the wrong answers." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 20:27:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00754 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:27:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12330; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA22646 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:37:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22627 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:37:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k586.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.186]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id SAA02682 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:37:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37EC26E8.57A4@netwiz.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:35:36 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: ancient plaids References: <000301bf06a1$640f9f70$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> <37ecd632.57953076@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi StrangeGirl wrote: > > There is a fragment of a sleeve, dug up in London, that dateds form > the 14thc. It is a brownish plaid now, but was apparently blue and > white at the time it was new. Correct me if I'm wrong about the > colours, I'm packing to move and don't want to dig it out... If this is about how old plaids (American usage) are, the Celts wore (invented?) them, no? Twill-woven plaid wool textiles about 3000 (?) yrs old have been found in the Hallstadt salt mines and with the mummies of Urumchi. Susan F. -- susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 21:00:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00827 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:00:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15368; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:17:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA26454 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:11:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (f177.hotmail.com [207.82.251.63]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA26446 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:11:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 95012 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 1999 02:11:11 -0000 Message-ID: <19990925021111.95011.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 166.90.39.139 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:11:10 PDT X-Originating-IP: [166.90.39.139] From: "L.L. Johnson" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: BBC America?/Re: H-COST: 1900's House TV programme (UK) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:11:10 PDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "L.L. Johnson" Any chance for this to be picked up by BBC America? Lonna >From: teddy1 >Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >To: h-costume-digest@indra.com >Subject: Re: H-COST: 1900's House TV programme (UK) >Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:22:14 +0000 (GMT) > > >-Poster: teddy1 > > > > Ooh, this sounds like such fun! My family would have volunteered in a > > heartbeat! =) Is it airing only in England? > > > Fascinating program, Teddy. Any chance we get to see it in US? > >As far as I know it's only in the UK at present.... It's on Channel 4. >I heard about it because the office next door helped with it - >Museum of Domestic Design and Architecture and Silver Studio >collection (contemporary to the William Morris Studio and now run >as part of the University where I work) > >Some of our UK programmes make it out to the US though... > >Teddy >(Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of >air and darkness, apparently!) > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 21:07:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00891 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:07:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA15745; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:24:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA27493 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:20:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27482 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:20:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.3.23.212]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990925021959.JGSA29344.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@home.com> for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:19:59 -0700 Message-ID: <37EC3153.D23C27EF@home.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:20:03 -0400 From: Liz /cozit Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: re: 1870's child clothes question References: <199909250011.SAA12107@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Liz /cozit >I have had a lot of difficulty finding magazines from the 1870s. >The 1880s seem to be a little easier to find. Sorry, haven't been watching this thread...not a strong interest to me and lask of time...so I don't know who was asking, but... I seem to remember reading a number of magazines from that period on microfilm at the University of Maryland's McKeldin library whn I was there in the mid '80s (well mostly...) Check with a university near you (if there is one) to see if what you're looking for might be there. Good Luck! -Elisabeth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 21:31:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA00959 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:30:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17271; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:45:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA29847 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:40:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29837 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:40:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990925024030.TGNN14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:40:30 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:39:42 -0700 Subject: Re: BBC America?/Re: H-COST: 1900's House TV programme (UK) From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990925024030.TGNN14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "R.L. Shep" I checked their schedule and it doesn't show up on it. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: "L.L. Johnson" >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: BBC America?/Re: H-COST: 1900's House TV programme (UK) >Date: Fri, Sep 24, 1999, 7:11 PM > > >-Poster: "L.L. Johnson" > > >Any chance for this to be picked up by BBC America? > >Lonna > >>From: teddy1 >>Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com >>To: h-costume-digest@indra.com >>Subject: Re: H-COST: 1900's House TV programme (UK) >>Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:22:14 +0000 (GMT) >> >> >>-Poster: teddy1 >> >> >> > Ooh, this sounds like such fun! My family would have volunteered in a >> > heartbeat! =) Is it airing only in England? >> >> > Fascinating program, Teddy. Any chance we get to see it in US? >> >>As far as I know it's only in the UK at present.... It's on Channel 4. >>I heard about it because the office next door helped with it - >>Museum of Domestic Design and Architecture and Silver Studio >>collection (contemporary to the William Morris Studio and now run >>as part of the University where I work) >> >>Some of our UK programmes make it out to the US though... >> >>Teddy >>(Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of >>air and darkness, apparently!) >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >> > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 22:16:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01093 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:16:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21043; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:32:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA05372 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:26:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05362 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:26:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA21405 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:26:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-48.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.48]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA08370 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:26:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002b01bf0707$01a4b440$b923fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: organ pipe pleats-- from the confused Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:35:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Michelle" >Are you cartridge pleating it on by taking a few stitches at the top of each >arc? Doesn't the weight of the skirt pull it down so it is no longer an arc >but a point? > >Sorry to be so dumb. Is there a book or a webpage somewhere with diagrams >that I can look at? I've seen the directions in _The Art of Manipulating >Fabric_ and what they describe is something totally different. > >Tara Tara, Don't feel dumb. I didn't get cartridge pleating until my mom took out scraps of fabric and literally showed me. However, if you don't have someone to show you, there is a great demonstrative drawing on page 67 of JA's Patterns of Fashion. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 22:18:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01101 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:18:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21360; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:36:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA05957 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:31:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05950 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:31:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23325 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:31:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-48.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.48]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA11236 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:31:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004601bf0707$9ed22180$b923fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Raglan sleeves Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:39:48 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Michelle" I was impressed by the clarity of the straight pin used to attach her sleeve. It is a beautiful portrait. Michelle >-Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" > > Wow - all that AND the infamous Air-Filter Hat.... > But it looks like a raglan sleeve to me too.... > > Liadain > >> I *knew* I'd seen one recently.... But I can't remember who was >> asking about it. >> Whoever you are, take a look at this.... >> >> http://152.19.254.81/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg >> >> Of course, this is the point where someone points out that raglan >> sleeves aren't what I think they are... >> >> >> >> Teddy >> (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of >> air and darkness, apparently!) >> _________________________________________________________________ >> To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com >> with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 22:55:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01161 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:55:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24139; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:12:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA09789 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:06:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09776 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:06:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.105] (sdts10-60.znet.net [207.167.66.60]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id VAA01880 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:06:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <37EBA9C8.FEE4E780@us.oracle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:05:44 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: French 1520's dress Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams > I have looked some and have come up pretty empty on >artwork for women's French clothing in the 1520's. So if someone out >there can help me find some artwork that would be appropriate I would >appreciate it. This month's Medieval Women's Calendar has some nice ones... Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 22:55:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01160 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:55:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24136; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:12:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA09821 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:06:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09808 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:06:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.105] (sdts10-60.znet.net [207.167.66.60]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id VAA01906 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:06:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001b01bf06b7$b1d6f620$cee0a4d8@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:25:29 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: skirt guards Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > >I've just begun to make my first German Ren, but am still in the planning >the pattern stage. What I have is 6yrd of lavendar/greyish heavy linen and >would like to use black cotton velveteen for the guards. I've done guards >at the neckline before, but never on a skirt. I have two questions. A) >will the velvet make the linen skirt drap differently Yes. It should look nice, but the curves will flow larger. I like the look of a weighted hem. B) should the >guards be applied to the skirt pieces, then the skirt sewn together or >should the skirt be sewn together and then the guards sewn to the finished >skirt? I think it is easier and looks better if the guards are applied after sewing the skirt pieces. Up to about 6" guards, I usually cut on a bias and iron into the curve on a gored skirt. I cut wider guards on the round or if my guards are for bases (because the arc is too tight for a good iron'ed curve for most fabrics I find...) Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 22:55:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01162 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:55:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24142; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:12:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA09807 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:06:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09797 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:06:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.105] (sdts10-60.znet.net [207.167.66.60]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id VAA01897 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:06:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <19990924174349.22276.qmail@hotmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:21:18 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: organ pipe pleats-- from the confused Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >>Yes, for each pleat, the skirt is folded on the pleat line, good >>sides together. A seam is sewn from the waist to the hem. > >How far from the fold are you stitching? Is this where the 3/4" comes in? 1/4" along each fold, 1/4" x 2 folded = 1/2". The extra 1/4" over allows for some ease and curve in the top of the pleat. >>(this must be done after lining, banding, decorations, and finishing >>is completed) > >So the top edge is not a raw edge, but is finished with the lining, right? Yes. >>from a Sideways perspective, looking down on the top of the skirt >>after pinching it should look kind of like this: > >>( >>( >>( >>( >>( >>( > >>But each curve has a little seam where they touch edges. > >This means that each tube isn't actually closed all the way around? If not, >that's why I'm so confused. No. Each pleat is just an arc. >>It pinches the fabric into an arc on the outside > >Are you cartridge pleating it on by taking a few stitches at the top of each >arc? Doesn't the weight of the skirt pull it down so it is no longer an arc >but a point? I sew it along most of the arc. I use the stab stitch like cartridge pleating, but sew along the entire top of the pleat. >Sorry to be so dumb. Is there a book or a webpage somewhere with diagrams >that I can look at? Not that I know of. I keep meaning to finish a pamphlet on it I started, but need to do a photo session as I make a real garment. Julie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 22:55:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01163 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:55:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24133; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:12:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA09787 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:06:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA09771 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:06:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.105] (sdts10-60.znet.net [207.167.66.60]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id VAA01875 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:06:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <509F32A6B70@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:57:25 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: 1870's child clothes question Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >Can any of you suggest some good sources for details of how a >small girl (in the 6 -10 age group) would have been dressed in the >early 1870's. Preferably middle/upper-middle class household? I think there are examples in Harper's Bizarre. I've seen repro paper dolls that show good detail too. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 23:04:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01186 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:04:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24750; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:22:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA11035 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:17:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f120.hotmail.com [216.32.181.120]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA11028 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:17:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 90158 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 1999 04:17:21 -0000 Message-ID: <19990925041721.90157.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.12.30.83 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:17:20 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.12.30.83] From: "Tara German" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: organ pipe pleats-- from the confused Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 04:17:20 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Tara German" >Don't feel dumb. I didn't get cartridge pleating until my mom took out >scraps of fabric and literally showed me. >However, if you don't have someone to show you, there is a great >demonstrative drawing on page 67 of JA's Patterns of Fashion. Actually, I do very creditable cartridge pleats. It's these organ pipes that I just don't get. *sigh* Tara Read and leave comments on mail order merchants. http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/Plaze/4884/contents.html ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 23:18:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01202 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:18:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26126; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:35:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12444 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:30:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hotmail.com (law2-f190.hotmail.com [216.32.181.190]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA12438 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:30:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 16719 invoked by uid 0); 25 Sep 1999 04:30:06 -0000 Message-ID: <19990925043006.16718.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 207.12.30.83 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:30:05 PDT X-Originating-IP: [207.12.30.83] From: "Tara German" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: organ pipe pleats-- from the confused Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 04:30:05 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Tara German" Julie, Thanks for answering those questions. I think I've got it now! Tara -------------------------- Read and leave comments on mail order merchants. http://www.geocities.com/RodeoDrive/Plaze/4884/contents.html ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 23:24:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01231 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:24:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26439; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:42:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA13238 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:37:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13229 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:37:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.200] ([209.207.57.11]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA03786 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:37:30 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <001b01bf06b7$b1d6f620$cee0a4d8@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:36:53 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: H-COST: skirt guards Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Melanie Schuessler >>I've just begun to make my first German Ren, but am still in the planning >>the pattern stage. What I have is 6yrd of lavendar/greyish heavy linen and >>would like to use black cotton velveteen for the guards.<...> >>will the velvet make the linen skirt drape differently <...> >I think it is easier and looks better if the guards are applied after >sewing the skirt pieces. Up to about 6" guards, I usually cut on a bias and >iron into the curve on a gored skirt. I cut wider guards on the round or if >my guards are for bases (because the arc is too tight for a good iron'ed >curve for most fabrics I find...) I agree that this is easier and prettier, but if the skirt panels are cut on a curve, beware of the linen stretching along the seams, which will be somewhat on the bias. Guards of a heavier fabric (like velveteen) will make it stretch more than it would otherwise. The danger is that you will get a dip in the hemline wherever there is bias. One solution is to pin or baste the hem guard on and then pin the skirt to a hanger so that the entire waistline is pinned to the straight wire at the bottom of the hanger (not sagging in the middle) and then let it hang for several days. Measure from waist to hem and move the guards up in any places where it has sagged. Good luck! Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Sep 24 23:58:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01292 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:58:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28747; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:14:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA16336 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:08:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16326 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:08:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA23493 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:17:20 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA15869 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:15:35 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:15:35 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: "H-Costume (E-mail)" Subject: Re: H-COST: RE: Charles de Blois Pourpoint pattern In-Reply-To: <000001bf06ba$ba445f70$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, Cynthia Barnes wrote: > What's a "grande assiette"? Yeah, I got "big plate", but what does this term > mean in a tailoring context? I'm guessing it's the size of the armhole. Is > this a modern or contemp term? That's what the costume books have tended to call that sleeve construction in which the armholes are scooped deeply into the back and somewhat deeply into the front. I have no idea if it's a modern term or a medieval one! Good question. I wouldn't be surprised to hear the term was invented by some French costume historian a century or two ago. > The CdBlois pourpoint is always shown on the stand. How much batt or > domette? How much is the stand the padding and the p'point. Are you just > smoothing muscle line & body hollows as per interfacing in modern tailoring > or are you reshaping the body more extremely? I've envisioned maybe 1 layer > of "warm & natural" batt or even lighter, like domette. Possibly 2-3 > tapered layers to fill in the hollow of the pecs & shoulder. I haven't examined the pourpoint directly, so I can't speak for it. The pattern drawing in Payne will give you a sense of the extremities of the measurements, though -- how much difference between chest and waist, front and back. As for the padding, I think a lot depends on the look you want and the build of the man. I'm not a quilter so I don't know the different terms you use. I would have liked to have tried using cotton "wool," but I figured puffy cotton batting was close enough, and easy to handle. I used between one and three layers, varying according to the bulges on my model. He didn't want the really poufed-out pouter-pigeon look, so I kept it pretty close to his natural shape. I could easily have done more. Remember, though, I only made the one. I'd have to do a dozen or so before I could give you generalities. > What I'm really questioning is whether that dancing stance is just a body > stance, artistic license or whether it's 1"+ of padding to form that > "peacock" chest. Likely, y'all are going to say it's some of each. I think some of it is stance, some of it is padding, and very little is artistic license. Though artists might tend to exaggerate the fashionable look, they wouldn't make it up entirely. FWIW, the person I made this for was a blacksmith. Small guy, huge arm and back muscles. And more muscles on one side -- which is why I had to pad for balance. > >found I had to keep cutting in to give him free arm movement that wouldn't > rip the back open. This is easier to show in person, I think! ... This > particular one is probably still walking around the Milwaukee area, though > > Rats. I'd love to see it up close. You dont end up in Northern CA much, by > any chance, do you? Actually, your descriptions make plenty of sense, > perhaps because I tailor and fashion close fitting bodices in the 19th & > 20th c modes. I'm glad I'm making sense -- I have never been able to write this up to my satisfaction, and I worry because there is so much I *haven't* explained here. I think I forget a lot of the details till I'm actually in the middle of making the dress. (And I haven't made many of these in the last few years -- I've been busy with other projects.) Sorry, but I am very far from California, and I don't know if any of my dresses have made it that far west ;-) --Robin, who has been posting too much this week _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 00:21:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA01316 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:21:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29950; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:37:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA18357 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:31:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA18349 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:31:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (vandial7.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.7]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA00264 for ; Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:28:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990924223340.007c2410@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:33:40 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling In-Reply-To: <19990922183835.11142.rocketmail@web805.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kris At 11:38 AM 22/09/99 -0700, you wrote: >> >If I were to suggest any of this to my daughter >> now, she'd have me >> >institutionalized. >> > >I recently suggested to my sister that a great place >to get cheap clothes that can make really cool outfits >or be modified without fear of "messing up something >expensive" was the Goodwill... I was then promptly >told that I am "so uncool" and how long had it been >since I was in high school? *sigh* I guess I am no >longer with the "in" crowd. *grin* I'm 20, and my favorite places to shop are the thrift stores. I've got a fabulous, floor-length black bias-cut poly skirt that was $5. It's wonderful as it is, wash & dry :] and I'm using it to make another skirt as soon as I find some (cheap!) fabric that drapes right.. And I also found a huge skirt in charcoal lambs wool... I'm making a partlet for me german ren out of this, and lining it with some linen I have left over from something.. and I'm looking for a great pair of curtains! So not everyone thinks it's un-cool.... when you're a student paying your own way, you do anything to get some real nice clothes for next to nothing :D Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 06:46:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA30525 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 06:46:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA14785; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 06:01:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA14034 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 05:54:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA14028 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 05:54:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-214-120.s374.tnt3.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.214.120]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA29308 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 07:54:09 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001201bf074e$1358e660$78d67ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <001b01bf06b7$b1d6f620$cee0a4d8@pavilion> Subject: Re: H-COST: skirt guards Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:04:08 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > I agree that this is easier and prettier, but if the skirt panels are cut > on a curve, beware of the linen stretching along the seams, which will be > somewhat on the bias. Guards of a heavier fabric (like velveteen) will > make it stretch more than it would otherwise. The danger is that you will > get a dip in the hemline wherever there is bias. If I use a rectangular shaped skirt, would that avoid the stretching? Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 08:16:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA30574 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:16:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18971; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 07:34:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA21776 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 07:29:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21771 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 07:29:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.82 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 06:29:14 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re. Recycling Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:37:06 -0400 Message-ID: <000001bf075b$513f8940$520bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <000d01bf05bc$6a00efa0$42f4accf@e4c2n6> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" In many poorer countries, stuff is recycled at home and among friends, just as it was in America up until the 50's when household consumption started going over the top. It is also collected by entrepreneurs like "rag men" and metal collectors who make their livelihood from recycling. In Mexico, many highways have reflectors along side at roughly 4 foot intervals just like here in the US. Except in Mexico, one way they did this was to dump a little pile of gravel about 30" high every 4 feet and then stick a recycled aluminum soft drink can into the gravel so that the silver bottom of the can acted as a reflector. This pattern went along the roadside for miles. When I was in Turkey last Fall, a delicious snack was "simits" purchased from street vendors. It was sort of a bagel totally encrusted with sesame seeds and oil and baked until the sesame seed were brown and full of flavor. The vendor would take a piece of paper in his hand to protect the food, pick it up, and then hand it to you with the paper around it. The paper was invariably recycled 1) graded kids' homework or 2) individual sheets of computer printout. It was fun to read the kids' essays and review profit and loss for local businesses! Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Penny Ladnier > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 8:09 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Re. Recycling > > > > -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > > in the UK at least, bins for recycling glass, paper, plastic > etc. have > appeared in every supermarket car park in recent years. > > Sorry for getting off topic but I am curious... > I am trying to find out how other countries recyle? Our > government (state > or local???) hired a company that comes to our home on > garbage day and picks > up the recyled glass and paper that is in a separate bin. > There is not a > charge for this service. Is this type of service available in other > countries? > > Later... Penny > http://www.costumegallery.com > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 08:16:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA30578 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:16:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA18941; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 07:33:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA21570 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 07:28:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21564 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 07:28:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990925132803.CQF13734.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 06:28:03 -0700 Message-ID: <37ECCBCB.F97F5937@home.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:19:07 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kat & Kent When I fit someone for one of these close-fitting dresses I have them wear their favorite bra under their chemise or underdress... that way, once the gown is finished, they don't have to wear one but have almost the exact support. I've been as big as an H cup while nursing and am normally DD and have never had a problem with drooping or bouncing in one of these dresses. I've done both front lace and side laced versions. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 09:28:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA30625 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:28:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23146; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:43:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27694 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:37:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from colquitt.sccsi.com (darren.bolding.org [207.90.208.114] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27681 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:37:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.207.57.200] ([209.207.57.45]) by colquitt.sccsi.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA06836 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:37:35 -0500 (CDT) X-Sender: melanie@pop.faucet.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001201bf074e$1358e660$78d67ad1@pavilion> References: <001b01bf06b7$b1d6f620$cee0a4d8@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:36:58 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Melanie Schuessler Subject: Re: H-COST: skirt guards Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Melanie Schuessler >> I agree that this is easier and prettier, but if the skirt panels are cut >> on a curve, beware of the linen stretching along the seams, which will be >> somewhat on the bias. Guards of a heavier fabric (like velveteen) will >> make it stretch more than it would otherwise. The danger is that you will >> get a dip in the hemline wherever there is bias. > >If I use a rectangular shaped skirt, would that avoid the stretching? >Andrea [That is, all the pieces in the skirt are rectangular?] Yes, because then the whole skirt will be on the straight of grain, which is least likely to stretch. I'm not sure you can get the same shape this way--ask our German Ren experts. You'd have a lot more fullness to pleat in at the waist to get the same fullness at the hem, and the flare might not be as graceful. Melanie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 09:47:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA30669 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:47:59 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24692; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:06:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29966 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:01:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu02.email.msn.com [207.46.181.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29960 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:01:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.212 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:00:29 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: 14th century Dress Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:08:35 -0400 Message-ID: <000201bf0768$11e55a60$520bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <37E9A7C2.EE971F17@utulsa.edu> Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Maybe the dress was sewn to accommodate pregnancy, not tubbiness. Hope H. Dunlap (who's presently "size 10" sister was 54 inches around prior to twins) > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Marc Carlson > Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 12:09 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress > > > > -Poster: Marc Carlson > > <"Andrea Gideon" > > >...gown is the only authentic cut for a cotehardie. I'm > assuming they > >are using this cut because although the garment it quite > tight and very > >fitted, it does have the same number of seams and gores. > > "The garment is quite tight and fitted"... Um, really? > > H-38's owner was a fairly small woman, based on her bones (About > 4'6"-4'8" with a waist size of 37" in circumference). "Fitted" yes, > but "tightly" fitted is a matter of opinion. > > H-41 (possibly a man) has a 39.4" circumference. > > Now we can argue about whether the Greenlanders at the end of 14th > century were starving or not, but I think we can be fairly sure that > "tubbiness" was not common (I speak as someone with a 42" waist > circumference). > > I think these outfits are supposed to be a bit on the loose side, if > for no other reason than insulation. They just have -really- large > skirts. > > Marc > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 10:25:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA30744 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:25:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26361; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:43:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA03965 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:37:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.inil.com (inil.com [206.31.32.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03955 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:37:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.176.240.33] by mail.inil.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 177-57935U7500L650S0V35) with ESMTP id com for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:37:53 -0500 X-Sender: baddorf@pop3.inil.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <004601bf0707$9ed22180$b923fea9@gunsafes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:38:58 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Deb Baddorf Subject: Re: H-COST: Raglan sleeves Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Deb Baddorf I'm not completely sure I'd count this as a raglan sleeve. It's a raglan style bodice strap -- but bodice straps frequently are cut separately from the main bodice (at least in my period, 1770's). The sleeve itself is still non-raglan, since it has a set-in-sleeve style of attachment. I wouldn't really call it a true raglan unless I found the raglan seam (which this has) and also the one-piece sleeve which forms part of the neckline and covers the shoulder. With no seam at the point of the shoulder. Just my two cents. But it *is* a wonderful painting! Deb >>> I *knew* I'd seen one recently.... But I can't remember who was >>> asking about it. >>> Whoever you are, take a look at this.... >>> >>> http://152.19.254.81/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg >>> >>> Of course, this is the point where someone points out that raglan >>> sleeves aren't what I think they are... >>> >>> >>> >>> Teddy >>> (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of >>> air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 11:18:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30779 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:18:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01078; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:36:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10230 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:31:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10220 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:31:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA31486 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:39:46 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA18945 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:38:03 -0500 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:38:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress In-Reply-To: <37ECCBCB.F97F5937@home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Kat & Kent wrote: > When I fit someone for one of these close-fitting dresses I have them > wear their favorite bra under their chemise or underdress... that way, > once the gown is finished, they don't have to wear one but have almost > the exact support. I've been as big as an H cup while nursing and am > normally DD and have never had a problem with drooping or bouncing in > one of these dresses. I've done both front lace and side laced > versions. I think I remember you're using a princess construction, right? I can see how that might work with a bra, as the silhouette is compatible. For my own work, though, I don't use either a princess line or a bra. I find that both create a silhouette that is quite different from the one I'm trying to achieve. The dress I make molds the breasts and positions them in a very non-20th-century shape. The dress also serves as a foundation garment, designed to create a specific shape. I wouldn't wear a bra under a corset, or a corset under a fitted dress, and I wouldn't use any combination of these items in fitting; they're all serving the same role of shaping, and the shapes differ distinctly from one period to another. Nice to hear of someone else out there who hit H cup while nursing. One of my pet peeves was that nursing bras available in stores typically were available no larger than DD. I *started* as a DD, and I know I'm not the only one. What did they expect us all to do? I mail-ordered my nursing bras. After two babies, even after losing all the weight, I'm still disproportionate enough I cannot find a bra to fit, and I am ready to start making my own corsetry at this point for daily wear. (Another project for my to-do list...) --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 11:18:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30783 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:18:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01083; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:36:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10324 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:32:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10318 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:32:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.124] (sdts11-124.znet.net [207.167.66.124]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id JAA05336 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:32:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001201bf074e$1358e660$78d67ad1@pavilion> References: <001b01bf06b7$b1d6f620$cee0a4d8@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:18:50 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: skirt guards Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >> I agree that this is easier and prettier, but if the skirt panels are cut >> on a curve, beware of the linen stretching along the seams, which will be >> somewhat on the bias. Guards of a heavier fabric (like velveteen) will >> make it stretch more than it would otherwise. The danger is that you will >> get a dip in the hemline wherever there is bias. This can be true of any fabric. I hang all my circle cut/gored dresses before hemming and finishing. The organ-piped skirts especially need hanging and weighting... Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 11:31:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30791 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:31:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02028; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:49:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11526 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:44:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11519 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:44:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.124] (sdts11-124.znet.net [207.167.66.124]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id JAA06720 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:44:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <004601bf0707$9ed22180$b923fea9@gunsafes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:42:17 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Raglan sleeves Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >>>> http://152.19.254.81/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg >>>> >>>> Of course, this is the point where someone points out that raglan >>>> sleeves aren't what I think they are... It seems like we went through the raglan issue about a year ago. I remember finding a number of examples of 14th c gowns that were raglan when I stopped to look, and there were quite a lot of 15th c examples too. I started looking more in some of my "medieval women" calendars and notebooks that have a lot of manuscript art and there were quite a few. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 11:39:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30802 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:39:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02876; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:58:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12327 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:53:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12321 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.212 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:52:30 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: French c. 1520 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:01:12 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bf0777$b991b560$520bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" It's not a female costume, but this portrait of King Francois I of France by Jean Clouet is certainly a feast of embroidery and fabric manipulation techniques which could be transferred to a women's garments. http://gallery.euroweb.hu/html/c/clouet/jean/ You might try doing a http://www.metacrawler.com search for portraits of his wife: Ctss Marie de ST. POL, b. ca. 1472, m. 8 Sep 1487, d. 1546 and Antoinette de Bourbon-Vendome, wife of Claude I of Lorraine, who were married in 1513. and Louise de BOURBON, d. 1561, wife of Louis I de BOURBON-MONPENSIER, b. 1473, d. 1520, who were married in 1505. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 11:39:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA30806 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 11:39:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02873; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:58:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12305 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:52:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12299 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 10:52:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.212 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 09:52:23 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: Muscovite Man Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 12:42:19 -0400 Message-ID: <000301bf0777$b4b92b40$520bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Here's are some neat portraits of Ivan the Terrible (lived 1530-1584) http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/portraits/ivan4.jpg and his dad, Ivan the Great (lived 1440 - 1505) http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/portraits/ivan3.jpg to get you started. This Russian History chronology for years approximately 800-1650 has some excellent information and links. http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/russian/chrono1.html Julie Zetterberg's webpages have quite a few Russian links. http://members.aol.com/nebula5/tcpinfo3.html#folk-EEurope, not rich in your period, but a few things might be of use. Hope H. Dunlap _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 14:44:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA30980 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:44:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA15591; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 14:00:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02322 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:54:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com (imo13.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02317 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 13:54:57 -0600 (MDT) From: JEWeidman@aol.com Received: from JEWeidman@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6KVFa00236 (4003) for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <7c2cc71.251e826b@aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:54:19 EDT Subject: H-COST: Question of "taste" - new thread To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: JEWeidman@aol.com I have often pondered this thought and have come up with no answers - I present the theory to the most knowledgeable group I can reach and invite discussion: When we study primary and secondary resources, especially examining paintings, sculptures, tapestries, etc.; how do we know these garments were attractive and fashionable and not simply an example of monumentally bad taste on the part of that individual? If I am copying or modeling a garment, I want to copy an elegant example of the period, not one that would have raised eyebrows. Example: I see a painting (assume the pigments represent the true colors) in which a woman is wearing 3 or 4 really horrendously ugly colors together, or a truly unflattering style. How do I know that this combination is an example of the prevailing taste? What if it is just that woman's really bad fashion sense and I am assuming her bad taste is a great example of a whole era! Think of "The Heiress" (remade as "Washington Square") in which the title character, although rich, dresses in expensive clothes with no style or grace. Do we depend on our "feel" of the era in which we specialize, combined with our (one hopes) innate good taste? Is there a Mr. Blackwell for the ages? Jane Weidman _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 16:52:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA31105 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:52:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25300; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:08:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA15413 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:01:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15407 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:01:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990925220155.DKIU13734.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:01:55 -0700 Message-ID: <37ED4671.8C6AA88B@home.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:02:25 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kat & Kent Robin Netherton wrote: > > I think I remember you're using a princess construction, right? I can > see how that might work with a bra, as the silhouette is compatible. > For my own work, though, I don't use either a princess line or a bra. > I find that both create a silhouette that is quite different from the > one I'm trying to achieve. The dress I make molds the breasts and > positions them in a very non-20th-century shape. The dress also serves > as a foundation garment, designed to create a specific shape. I > wouldn't wear a bra under a corset, or a corset under a fitted dress, > and I wouldn't use any combination of these items in fitting; they're > all serving the same role of shaping, and the shapes differ distinctly > from one period to another. I think it depends on the bra as to whether it provides the right silhouette or not. I do use the princess line style... but I fit them over a bra so I can convince whoever is wearing them to wear them *without* one because they are supportive enough for many women to feel comfortable in them. For myself, I try on all my bras before doing a new fitting and then throw a tight t-shirt over each so I can see what line they create... they're all slightly different. > Nice to hear of someone else out there who hit H cup while nursing. > One of my pet peeves was that nursing bras available in stores > typically were available no larger than DD. I *started* as a DD, and I > know I'm not the only one. What did they expect us all to do? I > mail-ordered my nursing bras. After two babies, even after losing all > the weight, I'm still disproportionate enough I cannot find a bra to > fit, and I am ready to start making my own corsetry at this point for > daily wear. (Another project for my to-do list...) I was fortunate... up through G cup they carried a front opening nursing bra at my local Motherhood store (had to order the H but...) which I found tends to work better for larger busted mothers. After 2-1/2 years of nursing it took about 6 months before I was back in my regular bras, still with only a half cup discrepancy between sides. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 18:19:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31151 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:19:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02567; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:34:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA23746 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:26:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23741 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:26:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990925232642.XKKP14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:26:42 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:30:28 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Question of "taste" - new thread From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990925232642.XKKP14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "R.L. Shep" There is no substitute for *research*. To depend on one source only without supporting evidence can only lead to trouble. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: JEWeidman@aol.com >To: h-costume-digest@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: Question of "taste" - new thread >Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999, 12:54 PM > > >-Poster: JEWeidman@aol.com > >I have often pondered this thought and have come up with no answers - I >present the theory to the most knowledgeable group I can reach and invite >discussion: > >When we study primary and secondary resources, especially examining >paintings, sculptures, tapestries, etc.; how do we know these garments were >attractive and fashionable and not simply an example of monumentally bad >taste on the part of that individual? If I am copying or modeling a >garment, I want to copy an elegant example of the period, not one that >would have raised eyebrows. >Example: I see a painting (assume the pigments represent the true colors) in >which a woman is wearing 3 or 4 really horrendously ugly colors together, or >a truly unflattering style. How do I know that this combination is an example >of the prevailing taste? What if it is just that woman's really bad fashion >sense and I am assuming her bad taste is a great example of a whole era! >Think of "The Heiress" (remade as "Washington Square") in which the title >character, although rich, dresses in expensive clothes with no style or grace. >Do we depend on our "feel" of the era in which we specialize, combined with >our (one hopes) innate good taste? >Is there a Mr. Blackwell for the ages? >Jane Weidman > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 18:23:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31157 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:23:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA03264; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:43:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA25124 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:38:24 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25117 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:38:22 -0600 (MDT) From: Elysant@aol.com Received: from Elysant@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6HKKa29898 (4541) for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:37:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:37:45 EDT Subject: H-COST: Snoods To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elysant@aol.com -Poster: I've been really impressed with how much people on this list know about the 14th century dress that I'd asked about last week. Again thanks everyone for the information. :-) I have another question :-) What periods are appropriate for snoods? I've been wearing a veil with my 11th century garb, and really didn't want to go to elaborate hats or the like with the 14th century costume I'm embarking on. Would a black snood (net with gold) be appropriate? Or a chrocheted one? Would I attach it to a hairband? or how would it be anchored on my head if so? Also - outside of the 14th century - what other periods are snoods appropriate head gear for? I've seen people wear them with all sorts of garb from different periods here is the SCA. Elysant _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 18:40:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA31179 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:40:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04523; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:59:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA26778 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:54:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (root@proxy2.ba.best.com [206.184.139.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26770 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 17:54:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id QAA21583 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37ED6126.647FADC3@best.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 16:56:22 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Question of "taste" - new thread References: <7c2cc71.251e826b@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > > > When we study primary and secondary resources, especially examining > paintings, sculptures, tapestries, etc.; how do we know these garments were > attractive and fashionable and not simply an example of monumentally bad > taste on the part of that individual? If I am copying or modeling a > garment, I want to copy an elegant example of the period, not one that > would have raised eyebrows. I think that the only way to determine what people really would have worn in a given period is to look at as many sources and examples as possible. Including actual garments (if available), paintings, sculptures, advice on what to wear, critical comments (in letters, etc.) on what individuals wore, and literary examples. In any period there is a range--some people dressed in what was considered "good taste" at the time, and some did not. Also, in any period some people would have been wearing styles and colors that you personally would find flattering, and some you would not. After you look at enough examples you get a "sense" of the range of what was worn and whether a project you are planning fits into it. While I think it's important to recognise that ideals of beauty differed in other periods and to be broad-minded regarding them, I don't think it's necessary to wear period style clothes you don't like. (Unless you just don't like any clothing of that period, or just don't like anything other than modern clothes, which I'd assume is not the case for members of a historic costuming list.) For example--in the mid 1880s the fashionable silhouette included a very large bustle. I actually find them quite flattering. But some people don't like that silhouette now. And some didn't like it in the 1880s, either. Instead they wore "aesthetic dress" or "rational dress." Wearers of aesthetic dress also preferred muted colors, instead of fashionably bright aniline dyes. They thought mainstream fashion was in bad taste, and fashion writers thought aesthetic dress was in bad taste. So, there's no reason why you should not wear whichever you prefer to represent the period. > > Think of "The Heiress" (remade as "Washington Square") in which the title > character, although rich, dresses in expensive clothes with no style or grace. > Do we depend on our "feel" of the era in which we specialize, combined with > our (one hopes) innate good taste? > I I haven't seen "The Heiress" but I have read "Washington Square." The whole point of the book is the way Catherine (the heroine's) domineering father thwarts her chances for marriage. Her clothes are part of this and it is explicitly mentioned in the book. The custom of the period was that a girl's mother ushered her into fashionable life, choosing the proper clothes and steering her toward an appropriate marriage. If the mother has died (as Catherine's has) a female relative or close family friend assumed the mother's role as much as possible. Catherine has an aunt who is anxious to do this, but her father will not allow it. Custom also dictated that a young unmarried girl dress like one; but Catherine chooses rich satins that, her aunt complains, make her look like "a woman of thirty." In fact, in the book, after her father chases away the one (fortune-hunting) suitor of her youth, her only other (rejected) offers of marriage are when she is about thirty, when her appearance harmonizes with her dress. Anyway, if you dress tastelessly by the standards of the period in question, but people did actually dress that way, you're still historically authentic if that's any comfort. Fran Grimble --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 19:03:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31215 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:03:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05998; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:21:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA28848 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:15:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28843 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:15:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA10204 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:12:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <012301bf07b4$9bbe2220$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Snoods Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:18:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! >What periods are appropriate for snoods? I've been wearing a veil with my >11th century garb, and really didn't want to go to elaborate hats or the like >with the 14th century costume I'm embarking on. What we in the 20th century call "snoods" (the word originally meant a sort of hair ribbon used in Highland dress) have more or less been found in digs from the 13th century on. So, while it probably wouldn't work for the 11th century garb, it certainly would with the fourteenth century stuff.. In the 13th century, there are ample pictures in illumination and the like of folks wearing hairnets, usually with a barbette (strip of fabric going round the head and under the chin) or coif, along with a fillet (sort of like a "crown" made out of linen). In the fourteenth century, the nets may have gotten a little more weighty (possibly made out of metal), and the hairstyles and such underneath became more complicated (for a decent example of this, look at the princess in _Braveheart_ (they didn't do a bad job with the women's headgear). They can be imitated using fake hair. Hairnets seem to be popular again in the 16th century, usually worn with a hat of some sort. > Would a black snood (net with gold) be appropriate? Or a chrocheted one? While crochet was probably not used to make these hairnets (the technique of netting--same kind of knot you'd use to make a string bag or hammock, just smaller, was what the surviving examples use), it's a popular substitute (although netting is dead easy to learn, it's a little harder to find instructions and the tools you need). The finer the thread you use, the closer you'll approximate the real thing. Would I attach it to a >hairband? or how would it be anchored on my head if so? Mine has a braided edge that the net is sewn to. The braid allows enough give for me to get it on, but then contracts enough to keep it there. The ones you buy commercially usually have either elastic or a drawstring. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 19:27:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31224 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:27:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07913; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:44:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01097 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:39:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01091 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:38:58 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6GWHa29021 (4247) for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:38:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <1c90311c.251ec4fe@aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:38:22 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Question of "taste" - new thread To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/25/1999 7:55:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lavolta@best.com writes: << For example--in the mid 1880s the fashionable silhouette included a very large bustle. I actually find them quite flattering. But some people don't like that silhouette now. >> [Great reply BTW!] I had a teacher in design school who did A Christmas Carol for the rep theatre associated with the school. He hated Empire so he just stuck the Fezywig [sp] scene in panniers!!!!!! [That makes Scrooge like 90 something] Anyway....you can tell people like the Marquise de Pompadour had taste [probably influenced by Boucher] just by looking. We're told Marie-Antoinette had taste [better say so...she's Queen!] but I've seen some clunkers on her. So you see, now is just like back then...YOU decide. Besides....who cares whether they thought they were tasteful! They're dead! Many people find a true rendering of a period aesthetic strange if not ugly. How many times I've heard people say "They're wearing curtains! She looks like a couch!". Sometimes these period quirks can be used by a designer. Remember Holly Hunter's hair in The Piano? Or the bright aniline ball gowns in Angels & Insects? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 19:32:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA31230 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:32:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08523; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:51:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA01756 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:46:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01748 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:46:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA17787 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:45:58 -0400 Message-ID: <37ED6CC5.C6957D7D@thibault.org> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:50:28 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Reform/aethestic/rational dress References: <7c2cc71.251e826b@aol.com> <37ED6126.647FADC3@best.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Lavolta Press wrote: > silhouette now. And some didn't like it in the 1880s, either. Instead they wore > "aesthetic dress" or "rational dress." I've often been fascinated by the aestheic sorts, because I really like the pre-Rafaelite stuff, and they were great enthusiasts of "sensible" dress, gothic revival, individual creativity, and so forth. But I've gotten the impression that there weren't that many people who actually dressed in the aesthetic mode -- that it was way out on a self-expressive limb, like early bohemian/hippie dress this century, or the middle-american caucausian teenagers who do the vampire thing. Then again, I've mostly read about it in large costume histories written by "normal" people, so this view may be skewed. wondering, cv -- The most outrageous lies that can be invented will find believers if a person only tells them with all his might. -- Mark Twain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 20:23:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31263 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:23:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12195; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:41:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA06953 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:36:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA06940 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.132] (sdts11-132.znet.net [207.167.66.132]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id SAA07575 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:36:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <7c2cc71.251e826b@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:26:04 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Question of "taste" - new thread Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >how do we know these garments were >attractive and fashionable and not simply an example of monumentally bad >taste on the part of that individual? If I am copying or modeling a >garment, I want to copy an elegant example of the period, not one that >would have raised eyebrows. We look at the body of work available for that time period and if there is a single example differing from others, then you don't copy that piece. If you want an elegant and fashionable example, you pick something that is not unique. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 20:29:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA31267 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:29:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA12892; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:46:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA07531 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:41:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from proxy4.ba.best.com (root@proxy4.ba.best.com [206.184.139.15]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07524 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:41:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from best.com (lavolta.vip.best.com [206.86.95.234]) by proxy4.ba.best.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/best.out) with ESMTP id SAA25016 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:39:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37ED79CE.4DEC8CE6@best.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 18:41:34 -0700 From: Lavolta Press Organization: Lavolta Press X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (WinNT; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Reform/aethestic/rational dress References: <7c2cc71.251e826b@aol.com> <37ED6126.647FADC3@best.com> <37ED6CC5.C6957D7D@thibault.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lavolta Press > > > I've often been fascinated by the aestheic sorts, because I really like > the pre-Rafaelite stuff, and they were great enthusiasts of "sensible" > dress, gothic revival, individual creativity, and so forth. > > But I've gotten the impression that there weren't that many people who > actually dressed in the aesthetic mode -- that it was way out on a > self-expressive limb, like early bohemian/hippie dress this century, or > the middle-american caucausian teenagers who do the vampire thing. There were more and less extreme versions of it . . . there is some evidence aesthetic dress was popular with middle-class women with small dress allowances who were not necessarily very "bohemian" in lifestyle. The materials, jewelry, etc. were often cheaper (simple strings of beads were preferred to diamonds). The styles often required less fabric which made them cheaper. The nonmainstream "historic" quality of aesthetic dress made it easier to get away with outdated fabrics, colors, and jewelry (in fashionable dress "good" jewlery was often reset and remodeled to suit current taste). Aesthetic dress was often more comfortable. Also, the aesthetic movement declared beautiful various physical qualities, such as red hair and square chins, that were considered unattractive in mainstream fashion; a boon to women born with these qualities. In other words aesthetic dress had a number of solid practical advantages to appeal to people whose lifestyles were not all that radical. Also, I've never been an advocate of only dressing in the "most common" styles of a period; aside from the difficulty of deciphering what these were in actual practice, if a large group does this it tends to produce a cookie-cutter look. Fran Grimble --------------------------------------------- Visit our web pages! Books on historic costume and vintage clothes http://www.best.com/~lavolta/index.htm Historic and vintage dance http://www.best.com/~lavolta/dance/index.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 21:03:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31288 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:03:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16316; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:21:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA11269 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:16:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11258 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:16:00 -0600 (MDT) From: sustre@pixelations.com Received: from [209.244.227.219] (dialup-209.244.227.219.Boston2.Level3.net [209.244.227.219]) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA14967 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:15:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: amanda@pixelations.com (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909251652.KAA12320@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 22:20:17 -0400 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: sustre@pixelations.com I was thinking of making an attempt at the 4-panel dress Robin described, and was contemplating wearing a sports bra for fitting- it's the one-piece kind that flatten one's breasts against the chest wall, making "mounds". It's supportive because the breasts are against the chest, not because of any cantilevering. Would using this for fitting be a bad idea? I was hoping it would give me a plausible silhouette. I'm a D cup, if that affects anything. Thanks! -Amanda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 21:32:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31307 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:32:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18978; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:50:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14367 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:46:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com (imo-d07.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14360 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:46:16 -0600 (MDT) From: HighlndLss@aol.com Received: from HighlndLss@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6HEHvCd3e_ (3985) for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 22:45:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <44e35ec.251ee2d3@aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 22:45:39 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Question of "taste" - new thread To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 56 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: HighlndLss@aol.com Hi Jane, You wrote: >Example: I see a painting (assume the pigments represent the true colors) in >which a woman is wearing 3 or 4 really horrendously ugly colors together, I have a very good friend who works at the National Gallery, (in DC here) and she gave me a wonderful tour behind the scenes. One of the major projects that they are now doing is restoring the paintings from the early periods. And when years of varnish, are removed, those horrendous colors are actually beautiful vibrant, strong colors. So my suggestion is that you do not assume that paintings have the true colors associated with them. Rather use your own taste, and remember how dramatically the old varnishes and oils from the paintings discolor an otherwise beautiful garment. Susan K. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 21:32:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA31314 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:32:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18862; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:50:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA14161 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:44:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14154 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:44:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p41.directcon.net [206.170.184.140]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA06269 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:43:19 -0700 Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:43:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199909260243.TAA06269@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: H-COST: Bodice Fitting challenge Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson I have just been presented with a formidable problem: I have a friend who would like a Ren Faire "wench" bodice. She's a largish woman, maybe a size 20, except that she has very large breasts. I believe she said a J cup. They are (each) larger than her head, and not surprisingly hang to her waistline. She would like something that holds them up somewhat, keeping them held in place for comfort, without pushing them up to her chin. I'm not sure where to start patterning something like this. Can anyone offer advice? Margo Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 22:03:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31392 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 22:03:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA21786; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:21:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA17658 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:16:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA17647 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:16:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA21328 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:13:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <027401bf07cd$e86e5c20$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: H-COST: Bosom buddies (sorta OT) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:19:13 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings-- I've heard several mentions here lately of large cup sizes (things like H and J; I think the highest I'd ever heard of before was E). Simple, nosey question: Who makes bras for these sizes? Is it mailorder only, or can you find things in some stores? Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 22:12:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA31399 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 22:12:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA22447; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:31:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA18717 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:26:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18709 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:26:47 -0600 (MDT) From: DzMzLzy@aol.com Received: from DzMzLzy@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6KIHa04066 (4444) for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:26:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <76893a9a.251eec54@aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:26:12 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Bodice Fitting challenge To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: DzMzLzy@aol.com Margo - I've fitted a person with a similar figure. Best way I've found (and I've taught classes on it) is to make a mockup out of a heavy non-stretchy material. I've used corset coutil. Put the mockup on the person while they are wearing a good bra, safety-pin the front closed and then pull the seams and used safety pins to hold the new placements. Keep tightening until you get the effect you want. Be warned though, this isn't easy, but once you get the bodice tight enough you can mark new seam lines where the pins are and rework the pattern into one that will give the right fit. My second suggestion is to use at least 3 1/2 wide stays on each side. My preferred placement is one on either side of where you are grommeting, or putting lacing hole and one more on an approximately 30 degree angle heading for the armhole, but stopping just past the curve of the bust. If you have more questions, let me know and I'd do my best to clarify the instructions. Liz Gerds margo@directcon.net writes: > > I have just been presented with a formidable problem: I have a friend who > would like a Ren Faire "wench" bodice. She's a largish woman, maybe a size > 20, except that she has very large breasts. I believe she said a J cup. > They are (each) larger than her head, and not surprisingly hang to her > waistline. > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 23:20:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31482 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:20:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27169; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 22:38:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA24709 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 22:32:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24704 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 22:32:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-62-13.s13.tnt2.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.62.13]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id AAA13090 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:32:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006001bf07d7$b2cb6360$4165accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: References: <000001bf075b$513f8940$520bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:29:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" This fits right into the recycling category and bringing this back to costume... tonight I went to a wearable arts fashion show. One of the categories was recycled. Costumes were made out of: records (33 RPH), corks, chicken wire, shower curtains, magazine covers (it was rather pretty), xrays, hot dogs and buns, you name it is was used. The winner of the category is going to be displayed at the opening of the Valentine Museum's exhibit on recycled fashions opening in March. So do you want to know what costume won the category ... a dress made out of dum-dum (sucker) wrappers. Yes, I got pictures of all the costumes and they will be on the Ball Thursday. Tomorrow, I will be off to photograph 1893 days at Maymont Park. They used to call this event Victorian days. The day will start at 1:00 with a Victorian carriage parade down Monument Ave. The carriages will be decorated with flowers. For those in the Richmond, VA area... There will also be a Victorian tea at the park, plus other period events going on. Good night... Penny http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sat Sep 25 23:50:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA31503 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:50:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28936; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:09:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA27515 for h-costume-outgoing; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:03:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27509 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:03:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA10953 for ; Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:12:18 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA23467 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:10:36 -0500 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 00:10:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Sat, 25 Sep 1999 sustre@pixelations.com wrote: > I was thinking of making an attempt at the 4-panel dress Robin described, > and was contemplating wearing a sports bra for fitting- it's the one-piece > kind that flatten one's breasts against the chest wall, making "mounds". > It's supportive because the breasts are against the chest, not because of > any cantilevering. > > Would using this for fitting be a bad idea? I was hoping it would give me a > plausible silhouette. I'm a D cup, if that affects anything. I know different people have different methods, so I can speak only for myself. If it were me, I would avoid the bra altogether. I figure I need to make the dress do the work, and part of that task is determining where to introduce pressure. If anything is supporting the bosom, it's changing the effect -- and I'm not getting a clear view of what will happen without the bra. I also need to play with the degree of molding of the breast, particularly how much I let the dress "push" the internal mass up from the underside, and how much I let "drop." If someone's wearing a bra, the breasts aren't as malleable -- the whole point of a bra is to keep the breasts from shifting. This is a very different approach from fitting modern clothing, which assumes you're working with a fixed shape (defined by a foundation garment) and then making the clothing fit that defined shape. With the 14th-century dress, at least as I make it, the clothing works directly *with* the body. It's really more like fitting a corset, or a bra. There's also a question of the thickness of the extra layer. A difference of as little as one-eighth inch on a seam can affect the fit, so fitting over a bra and then removing the bra would certainly introduce a significant amount of space. I could see an argument for wearing a sports bra for the very first steps of the fitting, when you're just getting in the ballpark of where things will be cut, and where you might not want to be fighting with the breasts. But for any of the meaty stuff, I'd get rid of the bra entirely. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 07:14:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28380 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 07:14:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16692; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 06:27:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA22188 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 06:20:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA22179; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 06:20:59 -0600 (MDT) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 06:20:59 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909261220.GAA22179@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Request for help Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger A friend of ours asked us to forward this request to this list, as they have not been able to locate any answers on the other lists they subscribe to (dolls, maybe others). Please respond directly to them. Thanks in advance! >>From: fsparks@hiplains.net (Sparks Frank and Sallie) >> >> I was given the Dress, slip, bonnet, little red shoes and I think >>(red) silk stockings that my Father wore when he was a baby. He was born >>Aug. 1, 1914. I really need to know how to wash these items. The dress >>has >>several holes in it that I need to fix. The pair of shoes have been mashed >>flat but the leather is still pliable, the shoes are 4 inches from toe to >>heel with a strap that has a button fastener. Then there is just one shoe >>that has 3 button on the top off to the side a little, well that doesn't >>make sense, ---- the buttons are off center, it is a little black shoe >>about >>3 inches long. Any help that you could offer would be greatly appreciated. >> Mother gave them to me thought that I might dress one of my dolls in >>the set. Ha!! not likely, it will probable go in a shadowbox of some >>kind >>after I find out how to clean and patch them. He was the baby of the >>family >>so it is possible that some of the other brothers also wore this outfit. >> I know that this information has been discussed before, BUT I had no >>need >>of the information then, since I didn't know that Mother had these bits of >>clothing hoarded away somewhere. >>Thanks >>Sallie Sparks > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 09:21:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28515 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:21:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23481; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:35:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02167 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:30:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02159 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:30:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990926143024.IAJR13734.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 07:30:24 -0700 Message-ID: <37EE2E1D.970EDDFE@home.com> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:30:53 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Bodice Fitting challenge References: <199909260243.TAA06269@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kat & Kent Margo Anderson wrote: > > I have just been presented with a formidable problem: I have a friend > who would like a Ren Faire "wench" bodice. She's a largish woman, > maybe a size 20, except that she has very large breasts. I believe > she said a J cup. They are (each) larger than her head, and not > surprisingly hang to her waistline. > > She would like something that holds them up somewhat, keeping them > held in place for comfort, without pushing them up to her chin. I'm > not sure where to start patterning something like this. Can anyone > offer advice? I would suggest starting with Simplicity 8249 (& JoAnn's is having another 99 cent sale!). Choose the size that is closest to her bust and then bring it in accordingly. I would suggest having her wear a bra for the first fitting. Good luck! Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 09:21:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28519 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:21:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23484; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:35:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02153 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:30:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls05.mediaone.net (ne.mediaone.net [24.128.1.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02147 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:30:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.163.141]) by chmls05.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA08993 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:30:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37EE2E8B.35B50741@mediaone.net> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:32:43 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: New Treadle machines! References: <19990925041721.90157.qmail@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Janice Dallas I was pleasantly surprised to find a new treadle machine offered in a recent Sears-Home Center catalog. It's a "Singer Nostalgic Sewing Machine with Cabinet and Stand". Looks like the old White I first learned on at my mother's knee! Non-electric and imported from somewhere (non-USA made). It goes for US$299.99. Was very tempted to get it, but my husband thinks that's crazy! Still, I remember being frustrated that I couldn't sew during a power outage (I cut out patterns by candlelight instead, that time). It has the beautiful old black with gold decoration head, too. Are these poping up elsewhere? -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 09:21:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28523 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:21:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA23756; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:38:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02467 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:33:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02459 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:33:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990926143335.IATC13734.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 07:33:35 -0700 Message-ID: <37EE2EDD.EC02EF5D@home.com> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:34:05 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Bosom buddies (sorta OT) References: <027401bf07cd$e86e5c20$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kat & Kent Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > > > I've heard several mentions here lately of large cup sizes (things > like H and J; I think the highest I'd ever heard of before was E). > Simple, nosey question: Who makes bras for these sizes? Is it > mailorder only, or can you find things in some stores? It depends on the area... here in Nashville we have a store called "Rebecca Vaughn" that carries larger sizes as a norm. There's also a company called Goddess that makes larger sizes and is carried in some stores but is primarily mail order. It's easier to find them in nursing bras since most women naturally gain at least one cup size (if not more!) while nursing. Generally, I would say the larger the city the more likely one is able to find such items 'in house' so to speak. Otherwise one has to mail order... and I've known one person who had to have all her bras custom made. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 09:25:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28527 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:25:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24133; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:42:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02964 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:37:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02957 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 08:37:31 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EMFVLDT9; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:35:39 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:29:17 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Snoods Message-ID: <19990926.092949.-633591.1.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 9-10,16-17 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com I'm interested to hear what folks have to say about earlier periods, but I can say that for the English Elizabethan, snoods aren't appropriate. They may have had them at an earlier time, but during Elizabeth's reign they were not worn. What many folks interpret as snoods are actually called cauls and are not knotted bags, but netting decorated and used over a solid fabric. They also don't hang down the back of the neck, which is a mistake that I see many people make. They sit very close to the head and are basically large enough to hold a nice bun full of hair and not much more. You could visualize them as little muffin caps/chef's hats worn perched on the back of the head with a tall hat on top. Be that as it may, the cotehardie discussion has wetted my appetite for making/wearing them again. I think that I have a good idea of what dress construction I will use, but I'm a bit stumped on the headwear thing, I have generally gone with hoods up until now, but I'd like to vary the style a bit. Any suggestions for good 14th century hats would be appreciated. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 11:19:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28630 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:19:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02159; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:25:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA08884 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:19:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.85]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08879 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:19:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from earthlink.net (CBL-ldpalmer.hs.earthlink.net [209.178.23.220]) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA06241 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:19:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37EE479E.223B2558@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 09:19:42 -0700 From: Florence Palmer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Bodice Fitting challenge References: <199909260243.TAA06269@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Florence Palmer Have you tried a duct tape pattern? You make her wear a bra and an old Tee shirt. It should be old because youwill be cutting it off. Then wrap her in duct tape. forming the bust right. Then you cut up the side and at the shoulder then cown the middle of each piece. You will have Four pieces. You will only need tow thou because you cut the material on the fold. I have been told you can use a paded roll kind of as a shelf under the breasts for added support but never asked how or if you would attach it to the bodice. Hope this helps. Maykn Crofte _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 11:19:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28634 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:19:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA02703; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:33:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10011 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:32:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA09979 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:31:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA17649 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:13:01 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA26693 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:11:16 -0500 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:11:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Bosom buddies (sorta OT) In-Reply-To: <027401bf07cd$e86e5c20$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Robin Netherton On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > I've heard several mentions here lately of large cup sizes (things like H > and J; I think the highest I'd ever heard of before was E). Simple, nosey > question: Who makes bras for these sizes? Is it mailorder only, or can you > find things in some stores? I have personally experienced everything from A (I was a late bloomer) to I (nursing my second child). Alas, I have a small ribcage. Susan can tell you that I'm not a huge person -- but since cup size is measured as a difference between ribcage and bust measurements, I end up with a high cup size just because I'm disproportionate. That is, if I had a few more inches around my frame, my cup size would only be a D or DD now, not a G/H. I often compromise by wearing a too-large band size so I can get enough cup (e.g. a 46DD instead of a nonexistent 36H). My experience has been that the larger sizes almost always assume that large breasts go with a large frame, so I've had a terrible time fitting. Standard band/cup measurements also don't account for "fullness," just projection. Thus some companies make several ranges for different fullness sizes. Nor do the measurements account for placement of the breasts on the body -- close or separated, high or low. I'm placed high and close, so standard underwires don't match my body. And then there's desired profile -- occasionally I find a bra that technically fits, but it pushes me out so much that I can't button my shirts or close my suit jackets. Buying a shirt or suit that would go over one of those foundations would mean going about three sizes higher than my shoulders/back -- it would fit my breasts, but nothing else. You can find minimizer bras, but these almost always have underwires. I used to wear a sports bra -- Champion Jogbra, which goes to DD, I think. I saw an article recently that pointed out that the sports bra makers generally top out at DD, and there is a HUGE demand from larger women who want to exercise (to get the weight off!) and can't find a bra to exercise in because they simply aren't made. I have done aerobics in three layers of Lycra athletic tops. Penneys and Hanes have a good selection of large sizes in mail order, as do a few no-name places you occasionally see advertising in the newspaper Sunday supplements. Some specialty bra stores and maternity stores will carry bras up to G or H, but typically in a very limited range. For nontraditional bras, I can recommend Bravado. These are nursing bras, with no underwire. The bras are sort of a sports bra design. A few years ago, they cost about $30 each, and for an extra $5 they'll custom-build one, meaning they'll sew any cup size to any band size. So I'd get their XL++ cup size sewn to a medium band, and it worked pretty well. But since the last baby, I'm out of even that size. Bravado is in Toronto. Call 1-800-590-7802 for a brochure. I have also heard good things about Decent Exposures in Seattle -- . I just got their catalog recently and haven't ordered yet, but I see they carry the Unbra, which I tried some years ago from Travis Place (didn't work for me then, but at least they go up to very high sizes). When I place a bra order, I always make sure it's returnable. Then I order every size that might potentially work -- sometimes $300 or $400 at a shot (for Hanes or Penneys, which have so many styles). When the box comes, I try them all on, choose the one I like, and return the rest (often ordering more of the one that works). OBCostume: Maybe this is why I like to wear non-modern clothes... --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 12:43:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28745 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:43:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01165; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:49:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18349 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:43:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo29.mx.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.73]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18338 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:43:02 -0600 (MDT) From: MzScahlett@aol.com Received: from MzScahlett@aol.com by imo29.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6RMFa24736 (3858) for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:42:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:42:24 EDT Subject: H-COST: Websites for Research To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: MzScahlett@aol.com List, I know we often exchange websites, but I was thinking today that we should all put up as many as we can think of that are local to us, that other's might not know of because they are across the country or the world. No pressure to find one, just if you know of one that might be more obscure that has some images up, do share! This is the De Young's site, in San Francisco. It's got some lovely portraiture up and a zoom feature that allows for real investigation of clothing details. http://www.thinker.org/imagebase/index.html angela +++++ Angela F. Lazear Costumes & Custom Clothing Theatrical Costume Design "So far as my coin would stretch; and where it would not I have used my credit." King Henry the Fourth; I, ii - W. Shakespeare QUICK-LINK: http://come.to/costumes FULL URL: http://sj.znet.com/~thespian/angil/index.html _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 12:43:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28746 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:43:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01619; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:55:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19945 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:55:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19937 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:55:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p3.directcon.net [206.170.184.102]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA05605 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:53:52 -0700 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:53:52 -0700 Message-Id: <199909261753.KAA05605@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Bodice Fitting challenge Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >Have you tried a duct tape pattern? Well, a duct tape pattern would give me a pattern for a body with a bra on, which is an entirely different line, as has been discussed in the cotehardie thread. As for the Simplicity bodice pattern, it has totally innacurate "princess" seams that would also give the wrong line for the period. I must not have phrased the question properly. What I'm looking to do is make a pattern that will give her breasts support, while still having the proper flat fronted, somewhat compressed line for the 16th century, not the "tits on a plate" look. Here's what I think I'll try: I'll draft a pattern for a bodice that fits her shoulders, back, and waist, and then slash and spread vertically along the side front to make room for her breasts. I'll do a muslin of strong fabric such as canvas, and correct the fit from there. I'm assuming that I may need to cheat the fit so that more of her breasts are down inside the bodice. I'll bone the entire front section for a smooth line. Does that sound like I'm on the right track? Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 12:43:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28748 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:43:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01162; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:49:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18364 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:43:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from viper.columbus.rr.com (viper.columbus.rr.com [204.210.252.254]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18358 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:43:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dsc.columbus.rr.com (dhcp31161186.columbus.rr.com [24.31.161.186]) by viper.columbus.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA25518 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:40:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000a01bf0846$fbf47c60$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> From: "Susan Carroll-Clark" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Bodice Fitting challenge Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:45:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Susan Carroll-Clark" Greetings! I'd suggest something similar to what someone already has suggested, but with a couple of extra hints thrown in: Make a mock-up in canvas or some other fabric with a decent weight to it, allowing some extra room. Then, fit it on your friend in the following manner: Pin it on her, and then have her reach down in, grab her breasts, and shift them to where she'd like them. Pin again so the mockup is nice and snug, and repeat as often as necessary until she's comfortable (note: this is also how I fit corsets). You'll probably repeat the process a number of times. Don't be surprised if you end up with some pretty funky-looking pattern pieces. Susan _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 12:44:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28756 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:44:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA01370; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:52:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA19692 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:52:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19686 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:52:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA28210 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-80.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.80]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA16158 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 10:52:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003601bf0849$25e28420$318dfea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Bodice Fitting challenge Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 11:01:23 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" Margo, This may be what that padded roll was designed for in the Elizabethan Costuming book, Savory and Winter. Do you think it would help? Michelle >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >I have just been presented with a formidable problem: I have a friend who >would like a Ren Faire "wench" bodice. She's a largish woman, maybe a size >20, except that she has very large breasts. I believe she said a J cup. >They are (each) larger than her head, and not surprisingly hang to her >waistline. > >She would like something that holds them up somewhat, keeping them held in >place for comfort, without pushing them up to her chin. I'm not sure where >to start patterning something like this. Can anyone offer advice? > >Margo >Margo Anderson >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 13:33:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28902 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:33:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05987; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:46:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA25387 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:45:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com (imo24.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.68]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25382 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:45:32 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6DEa004824 (4223) for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:44:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <870e4fdd.251fc3a9@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:44:57 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: New Treadle machines! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com I believe I remember hearing several years ago that treadle machines were still being made for parts of the world where electricity is a problem. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 13:39:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28925 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:39:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06803; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:52:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26093 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:53:03 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26086 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:53:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 11VJPv-000CpM-0A for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:52:59 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:32:21 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Snoods In-Reply-To: <19990926.092949.-633591.1.seamstrix@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jean Waddie > >Be that as it may, the cotehardie discussion has wetted my appetite for >making/wearing them again. I think that I have a good idea of what dress >construction I will use, but I'm a bit stumped on the headwear thing, I >have generally gone with hoods up until now, but I'd like to vary the >style a bit. Any suggestions for good 14th century hats would be >appreciated. > >Karen I'm afraid I can't really think of anything you would call a hat for 14th century - "hat" implying something that has a shape of its own when not on the head. But you can have lots of fun with veils and nets and bands and plaits. Try (though I know it's hard) to get hold of the Visual History 14th & 15th Century, and get a feel for the things you can do. I think the net with fillet and barbette sneaks into the 14th century - you need to structure a loose net to hold your hair in bulges low behind your ears, and then two bands of linen go over it, one like a sweatband around the forehead and one under the chin and over the top. My personal favourite (if you have the hair) is two plaits coming from behind the ears (with a very accurate centre parting all the way over), then bring them forward under your ears, up the sides of your face and cross them over the top. You can wear this with a veil that follows down behind the line of the plaits at the front, or just with a wimple that comes up and fastens at the base of your hair. Have fun! -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 13:54:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28948 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:54:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07689; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:05:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA27586 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:05:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27580 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:05:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.200]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:00:05 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: New Treadle machines! Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:02:40 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37f76d1d.66131486@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <870e4fdd.251fc3a9@aol.com> In-Reply-To: <870e4fdd.251fc3a9@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA27581 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:44:57 EDT, the following was written in this electric book by AnnBWass@aol.com: > >I believe I remember hearing several years ago that treadle machines were >still being made for parts of the world where electricity is a problem. Not to mention that some of the sects that believe in only necessary technology (what is necessary and what is sinful luxury varies depending on which sect it is) still order and use these types of sewing machines, since many of them prefer not to use electricity at all. I could not tell you which ones, though, as I am no expert on Amish, Mennonites, etc. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 13:54:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28952 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:54:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07692; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:05:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA27519 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:05:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx.serv.net (mx.serv.net [205.153.153.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27512 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 13:05:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from gia-g (dialup310.serv.net [207.207.70.203]) by mx.serv.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA00277 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:05:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003c01bf0852$1d8d4040$cb46cfcf@gia-g> From: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Bodice Fitting challenge Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 12:05:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Gia Gavino-Gattshall" >I must not have phrased the question properly. What I'm looking to do is >make a pattern that will give her breasts support, while still having the >proper flat fronted, somewhat compressed line for the 16th century, not the >"tits on a plate" look. I think you phrased the question correctly, (FWIW). > >Here's what I think I'll try: I'll draft a pattern for a bodice that fits >her shoulders, back, and waist, and then slash and spread vertically along >the side front to make room for her breasts. I'll do a muslin of strong >fabric such as canvas, and correct the fit from there. I'm assuming that I >may need to cheat the fit so that more of her breasts are down inside the >bodice. I'll bone the entire front section for a smooth line. > >Does that sound like I'm on the right track? > > And, yes, what you just described sounds like you are on the right track to meet such a fitting...challenge..Although, you might want to be sure and cut strips of the strong canvas, stitch the strips to the vertical slashes on one side of the slash and then 'pin her in' for the bust fitting. I hope I explained that right. My reasoning? First you'll be adjusting the fit using a stronger material than muslin or paper so that the potential of ripping is minimized. Then the other thing is that you'll only having to struggle with one half of a slash than both sides. Good luck! Gia/Giacinta _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 15:49:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29201 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:49:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA05623; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:58:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA09877 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:53:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from duval.se.mediaone.net (duval.se.mediaone.net [24.129.0.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA09871 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:53:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.se.mediaone.net (tamw74-177.pompano.net [24.129.74.177]) by duval.se.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA18327 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:53:24 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andy Oppenheim" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Bodice Fitting challenge Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:51:27 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <199909261753.KAA05605@apollo.directcon.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andy Oppenheim" Does anyone have some good websites for 1000 C.E. and 1530's C.E. clothes and pattern sites on the web? Andy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 15:59:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA29210 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:59:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA06725; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:13:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12154 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:12:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12143 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:12:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA03766 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-18.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.18]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01272 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:12:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001701bf0865$09312cc0$6d79fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "costume list" Subject: H-COST: unmatched bodice and skirts Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:20:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF082A.55FA9F40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Michelle" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF082A.55FA9F40 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0014_01BF082A.55FA9F40" ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01BF082A.55FA9F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I found this today. The bodice and skirt are unmatched and the = sleeves match the skirt.=20 http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/images/High.Italian.R= enaissance/CJ05.jpg Michelle ------=_NextPart_001_0014_01BF082A.55FA9F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

  I found this today.  The = bodice and=20 skirt are unmatched and the sleeves match the skirt.

http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/C= ostumes/images/High.Italian.Renaissance/CJ05.jpg
 
Michelle
------=_NextPart_001_0014_01BF082A.55FA9F40-- ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF082A.55FA9F40 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="CJ05.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="CJ05.url" [InternetShortcut] URL=3Dhttp://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/images/High.Ita= lian.Renaissance/CJ05.jpg Modified=3DC02A99D56408BF0184 ------=_NextPart_000_0013_01BF082A.55FA9F40-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 16:40:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29324 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:40:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10912; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:55:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA16847 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:54:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16834 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:54:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA24450 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:54:17 -0700 (MST) Received: from ip-55-036.sna.primenet.com(207.218.55.36), claiming to be "pavilion" via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd024432; Sun Sep 26 14:54:11 1999 Message-Id: <4.1.19990926145556.0724ecd0@pop.primenet.com> X-Sender: kittykat@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:00:20 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir Subject: H-COST: For the "Bosom buddies" (sorta OT) In-Reply-To: <37EE2EDD.EC02EF5D@home.com> References: <027401bf07cd$e86e5c20$baa11f18@dsc.columbus.rr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir On another list I'm on this URL: http://www.title9sports.com/ has sports bras to at least a size E cup. The "Frog Bra" is the one recommended, as it is supposed to hold even whilst jumping. (I don't have purrsonal experience in this matter being only a size B-C cup. The problem I have is finding the size 40 band with a B or C cup. The manufacturers automatically assume that since you are mountain-sized around, you also have mountain-sized breasts. ) Hope the URL helps some of you :-> Svanny At 07:34 AM 09/26/1999 , you wrote: > >-Poster: Kat & Kent > >Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: >> >> >> I've heard several mentions here lately of large cup sizes (things >> like H and J; I think the highest I'd ever heard of before was E). >> Simple, nosey question: Who makes bras for these sizes? Is it >> mailorder only, or can you find things in some stores? > >It depends on the area... here in Nashville we have a store called >"Rebecca Vaughn" that carries larger sizes as a norm. There's also a >company called Goddess that makes larger sizes and is carried in some >stores but is primarily mail order. It's easier to find them in nursing >bras since most women naturally gain at least one cup size (if not >more!) while nursing. Generally, I would say the larger the city the >more likely one is able to find such items 'in house' so to speak. >Otherwise one has to mail order... and I've known one person who had to >have all her bras custom made. > >Kat Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir )O( Barony of Gyldenholt, Kingdom of Caid kittykat@primenet.com ICQ: 12691776 (NyteRaevyn) AIM: SvanhildrV _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 16:41:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29328 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:41:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10909; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:55:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA16786 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:53:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16781 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:53:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA17124 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:53:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-208.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.208]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA23735 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:53:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002301bf086a$d80f4c20$6d79fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "costume list" Subject: H-COST: more unmatched bodice and skirts Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:02:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF0830.24C054A0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Michelle" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF0830.24C054A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0020_01BF0830.24C054A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0020_01BF0830.24C054A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www.marquise.de/material/1500/1580_2.jpg Michelle ------=_NextPart_001_0020_01BF0830.24C054A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 

http://www.marqu= ise.de/material/1500/1580_2.jpg
 
Michelle
------=_NextPart_001_0020_01BF0830.24C054A0-- ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF0830.24C054A0 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="1580_2.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="1580_2.url" [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.marquise.de/material/1500/1580_2.jpg Modified=80B165BC6A08BF0184 ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01BF0830.24C054A0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 16:42:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29357 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:42:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA11154; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:57:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA17197 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:56:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA17186 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:56:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA18211 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:56:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-139.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.139]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25499 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 14:56:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <002f01bf086b$45678bc0$6d79fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: "costume list" Subject: H-COST: more unmatched bodice and skirts Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:05:29 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF0830.92203560" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Michelle" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF0830.92203560 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_002C_01BF0830.92203560" ------=_NextPart_001_002C_01BF0830.92203560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It occured to me after I posted this link that the woman is probably = wearing an apron and that her skirt does indeed match. Oh well.. http://www.marquise.de/material/1500/1580_2.jpg Michelle ------=_NextPart_001_002C_01BF0830.92203560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
  It occured to me after I = posted this link=20 that the woman is probably wearing an apron and that her skirt does = indeed=20 match.
Oh well..

http://www.marqu= ise.de/material/1500/1580_2.jpg
 
Michelle
------=_NextPart_001_002C_01BF0830.92203560-- ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF0830.92203560 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="1580_2.url" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="1580_2.url" [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.marquise.de/material/1500/1580_2.jpg Modified=601BD2146B08BF0194 ------=_NextPart_000_002B_01BF0830.92203560-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 17:08:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29405 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:08:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13116; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:22:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20442 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:21:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20435 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:21:02 -0600 (MDT) From: Natekakar@aol.com Received: from Natekakar@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6ILDa23994 (3938) for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:20:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:20:27 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: New Treadle machines! To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 14 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Natekakar@aol.com Try Lehmans, http://www.lehmans.com/ They have some items on line as well as an extensive paper catalog, have sewing machines, refrigerators, stoves, washing machines, lighting, and many other non-electric appliances and supplies. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 17:10:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29411 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:10:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA13452; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:25:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA20894 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:25:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo21.mx.aol.com (imo21.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.65]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20878 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:25:22 -0600 (MDT) From: CONNECT@aol.com Received: from CONNECT@aol.com by imo21.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6EOZa04067 (4421) for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:24:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <31c7a252.251ff72f@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:24:47 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Bosom buddies (sorta OT) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL for Macintosh sub 54 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: CONNECT@aol.com In a message dated 9/25/99 11:30:34 PM, nicolaa@columbus.rr.com writes: << Greetings-- I've heard several mentions here lately of large cup sizes (things like H and J; I think the highest I'd ever heard of before was E). Simple, nosey question: Who makes bras for these sizes? Is it mailorder only, or can you find things in some stores? Susan >> I first found one for me at a specialty lingere' store in a town down the road from me. Since then, all the ones I've purchased have been mailorder. Goddess makes a decent large cup bra, but I'm having trouble with the placement of the metal bars for adjusting the straps being right at the top of the cup. I am very narrow shouldered, and so when I reach across my body, the bars dig into my arm and right below the collarbone rather painfully. Plus, the shoulder straps fall off my shoulders all time time. I've yet to get something that's perfectly designed for my body. Lane Bryant used to sell the large cupped Goddess bras, but they've stopped for some reason. Lady Jane Grace has a catalog you can request via their web site. I got my sports bra for doing SCA heavy weapons combat from Junonia. Their slogan is "dedicated to the active lives of women size 14 & up." They can be reached at 800-671-0175. Yours, Pattie Rayl _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 17:20:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29463 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:20:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14165; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:35:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA22020 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:34:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA22011 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:34:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p19.directcon.net [206.170.184.68]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA26428 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:33:19 -0700 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:33:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199909262233.PAA26428@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Bodice Fitting challenge Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 11:01 AM 09/26/1999 -0700, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Michelle" > > > >Margo, > This may be what that padded roll was designed for in the Elizabethan >Costuming book, Savory and Winter. Do you think it would help? >Michelle The padded roll is helpful for keeping the breasts from sliding down inside the bodice. Actually, what works better than a single straight roll a la Sovoy and Winter is what theatrical shops call "bananas", crescent shaped pads tacked into the bodice that make little hammocks for them to sit on. In this case, though, I think we may want quite a lot of her breasts to be inside her bodice! Margo Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 17:34:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29480 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:34:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA15084; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:48:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA23714 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:47:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp01.primenet.com (daemon@smtp01.primenet.com [206.165.6.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23708 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:47:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp01.primenet.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04136 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:47:31 -0700 (MST) Received: from ip-55-036.sna.primenet.com(207.218.55.36), claiming to be "pavilion" via SMTP by smtp01.primenet.com, id smtpd004054; Sun Sep 26 15:47:23 1999 Message-Id: <4.1.19990926155317.00a0d950@pop.primenet.com> X-Sender: kittykat@pop.primenet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 15:53:29 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir Subject: H-COST: Need instructions/suggestions for making... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir "lined" rectangular draw-string bags. Unlined bags would be a snap, but I'm not sure how to go about doing lined ones. Anyone out there with instructions and pictures/drawings? I'll glady send a postage paid envelope if they are not webbased or easily done in email :-> TIA, Svanny (P.S. Sorry if you get this more than once... going to post to a couple of lists!) Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir )O( Barony of Gyldenholt, Kingdom of Caid kittykat@primenet.com ICQ: 12691776 (NyteRaevyn) AIM: SvanhildrV _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 17:51:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29488 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:50:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA15978; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:03:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA25409 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:02:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from cell2000.net (dominion.cell2000.net [216.200.45.5] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA25400 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:02:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from triciaakuhn [206.132.218.94] by cell2000.net (SMTPD32-5.04) id A585E705025E; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:00:21 PDT Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990926160808.0068fd9c@cell2000.net> X-Sender: inana@cell2000.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:08:12 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: TriciaaKuhn Subject: H-COST: corsets questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: TriciaaKuhn hello im new to this stuff the E mail posting and corsetry and i would apreciate any help or advice i could get. also i would like to ask if anyone out there has a corset pattern for larger sizes than 26 i have looked but cant find anything thank you Tricia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 18:03:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29499 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:03:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17180; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:17:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA27167 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:17:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wilma.widomaker.com (smtp@wilma.widomaker.com [204.17.220.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27162 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:17:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.96.178.37] by wilma.widomaker.com with smtp (Exim 1.90 #1) for h-costume@indra.com id 11VNXc-0003gR-00; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:17:13 -0400 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19990926231354.0072d794@widomaker.com> X-Sender: rcarnegie@widomaker.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:13:54 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ron Carnegie Subject: Re: H-COST: New Treadle machines! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ron Carnegie At 02:44 PM 9/26/99 EDT, you wrote: > >-Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com > >I believe I remember hearing several years ago that treadle machines were >still being made for parts of the world where electricity is a problem. >Ann Wass > _________________________________________________________________ > This is true. They are advertised brand new in the Lehman's catalog for non-electric living. They are expensive however. I stick with my old White. Cheers, Ron Carnegie rcarnegie@widomaker.com ************************************************* "The poetry of history lies in the quasi-miraculous fact that once on this earth, on this familiar spot of ground walked other men and women as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions but now all gone, vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall be gone like ghosts at cockcrow." G.M. Trevelyan ************************************************* _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 18:25:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA29520 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:25:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA19312; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:38:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29649 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:36:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29643 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:36:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p19.directcon.net [206.170.184.68]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA31384 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:35:42 -0700 Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 16:35:42 -0700 Message-Id: <199909262335.QAA31384@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: New Treadle machines! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson When I was selling Singer sewing machines about 6 years ago my sales manager told me that Singer was going to be making a new treadle machine. According to him, it was NOT the same as their old models, or as the ones still being manufactured for use in areas where ower is unavailable. this one was going to be a cheap knockoff, intended to appeal to the "country decorating" enthusiasts who they suspected would actually sew on it only occasionally. I would exercise great caution buying a new Singer treadle model. If the one on the market now is what he was talking about, your money would be better spent on a vintage machine. Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 19:07:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29628 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:07:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA24192; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:19:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04485 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:18:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from williams.tricreations.com (williams.tricreations.com [207.156.174.93]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04479 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:18:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [38.27.179.165] (ip165.columbus6.oh.pub-ip.psi.net [38.27.179.165]) by williams.tricreations.com (8.9.0/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA28524 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:12:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199909270012.UAA28524@williams.tricreations.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: New Treadle machines! Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:22:40 -0400 x-sender: tr002203-elisee@williams.tricreations.com x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Elisee du Lyonnais To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elisee du Lyonnais One of the ladies in the small community where I lived and ran my sewing machine repair business ordered one of these and had me assemble it and get it ready to operate. I agree with the assessment that they are cheap knockoffs and will work, but you would be MUCH better off getting an old one. Easier said than done, in some parts of the country. In Iowa, where I used to live they usually went on auction for 5 - 10 dollars, and the buyers usually threw away the head and used the table for "decoration". I got all the used heads I could and fitted them with hand cranks for people wanting a portable for non-electric situations. Now that I'm in Ohio, I haven't seen this happen as much. I do have a stock of new treadle belts, if anyone needs one. Lisa Brandt Margo Anderson wrote: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > >When I was selling Singer sewing machines about 6 years ago my sales manager >told me that Singer was going to be making a new treadle machine. According >to him, it was NOT the same as their old models, or as the ones still being >manufactured for use in areas where ower is unavailable. this one was going >to be a cheap knockoff, intended to appeal to the "country decorating" >enthusiasts who they suspected would actually sew on it only occasionally. > >I would exercise great caution buying a new Singer treadle model. If the >one on the market now is what he was talking about, your money would be >better spent on a vintage machine. > > >Margo Anderson >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 19:27:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29706 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:27:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26096; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:40:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA06855 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:39:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA06850 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:39:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.14.120.227]) by mtiwmhc03.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990927003834.WTBY29473@worldnet.att.net> for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 00:38:34 +0000 Message-ID: <37EEBCC5.43820B8F@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:39:33 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: New Treadle machines! References: <199909262335.QAA31384@apollo.directcon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Margo Anderson wrote: > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > When I was selling Singer sewing machines about 6 years ago my sales manager > told me that Singer was going to be making a new treadle machine. According > to him, it was NOT the same as their old models, or as the ones still being > manufactured for use in areas where ower is unavailable. this one was going > to be a cheap knockoff, intended to appeal to the "country decorating" > enthusiasts who they suspected would actually sew on it only occasionally. > > I would exercise great caution buying a new Singer treadle model. If the > one on the market now is what he was talking about, your money would be > better spent on a vintage machine. What she said. I hang out on another list that is dedicated exclusively to Treadle and hand crank machines and we've discussed these "new" treadles. SEveral people in the list are actually "in the business" and have tried them out - their opinion on Singer's new treadle is that it's a piece of junk if you're looking for something to actually sew on. Really bad stitching, constantly in need of adjustment. As Margo says, save your money and buy something vintage. It would probably be cheaper anyway. I bought a treadle from a friend years ago for $75 and many people on the list find them in that price range. Even really expensive ones are about $200 - 300 in nice parlor cabinets. YOu may need to remove a motor that's been added to the machine as many treadles were converted but as long as the treadle mechanism is still there it's not difficult. Many vintage Singers can be converted to treadle or handcranks - reproduction handcranks are readily available on the internet for adding to your old machine. I've currently got one Singer treadle and 3 handcranks (2 Singers and one JOnes) and they all sew beautifully except for my Singer model 115 which I'm still adjusting. I've also got a White treadle head in the garage I"m probably going to sell for parts as it's really rusty. I haven't paid more than $75 for any of these machines. Things to look for if you're buying an old machine is 1)Does it still have it's bobbin case or bobbin shuttle - they can be hard to replace, 2) are all the parts there? Slide plates go missing frequently and are hard to replace, 3) how hard is it to find bobbins? Lots of old machines were "vibrating shuttle" machines that have a bullet shaped bobbin case and use long spool-like bobbins, or a boat shuttle. These can be found, but for some makers are rarer than others (Singers are pretty easy to find parts for). And don't forget most of these will be straight stitch machines with no reverse. I do know people who've converted Singer models up into the 300's into treadles. Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 19:39:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29734 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:39:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27356; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:53:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA08234 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:52:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08228 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:52:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA00346 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-227.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.227]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA06360 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 17:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004201bf0883$d898e520$c2d6fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Bodice Fitting challenge Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:01:34 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Michelle" > >The padded roll is helpful for keeping the breasts from sliding down inside >the bodice. Actually, what works better than a single straight roll a la >Sovoy and Winter is what theatrical shops call "bananas", crescent shaped >pads tacked into the bodice that make little hammocks for them to sit on. > >In this case, though, I think we may want quite a lot of her breasts to be >inside her bodice! > >Margo I suggested this because not to long ago, I made my sister-in-law an Irish overdress. I had a heck of a time fitting the bodice. She has such large breasts that I didn't know what to do with them. We didn't want the heaving into the neckline look. Now I wished that I had put something in there because there is an obvious line where she starts to get squashed in there. The bones get bent inward between her breasts and her stomach. I thinking putting that roll in may give a smoother line. Extra bones may help too, but I think the combination of bones and a roll might do a better job. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 19:58:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29780 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:58:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29146; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:12:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA10473 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:10:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tx.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10463 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:10:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a ([24.4.53.172]) by news.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990927011045.CTVP16994.news.rdc1.tx.home.com@c59303a>; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 18:10:45 -0700 Message-ID: <005d01bf0885$2751ad40$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: , , "sca-garb" , , Subject: H-COST: Fw: ANST - Marion Zimmer Bradley: Mourning Song Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:09:50 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike C. Baker To: Cc: ; ; ; Sent: Sunday, September 26, 1999 7:17 PM Subject: ANST - Marion Zimmer Bradley: Mourning Song : Apologies in advance to those who may receive more than : one copy of the following. There are sorrowful things to : relate, and reactions to be recorded as well. : : Sir Galen of Bristol had forwarded the following to the : Ansteorran mailing list : : > > I have word, forwarded from the Caid list, that : > > Marion Zimmer Bradley, author of _Mists of Avalon_ : > > and the Darkover series (the lady who named the : > > Society for Creative Anachronism), has suffered a : > > heart attack and is presently in Alta Bates Hospital : > > in Berkeley, CA. : : According to sources close to the situation in California, : Marion Zimmer Bradley passed from this existence to her next : last evening (Saturday, September 25th, A.D.1999). : : Author, editor, mother, teacher, and oh so much more, : "Mama Marion" will be indeed missed. : : The following composition is from the heart, composed upon the : instant, and in no way meant to encompass all that this woman : has meant, and by every measure STILL means, to the Society, : to fans everywhere, and to her closest friends and loving family. : It is only the first of my responses. : : Would someone please forward this poem to the household in California? : * * * * * : Mourning: "Mama Marion" : written by Mike C. Baker, : known also as Rev. Kihe Blackeagle (the Dreamsinger Bard) : and al-Sayyid Amr ibn Maid al-Bakri al-Amra : September, AD1999, being Anno Societatis XXXIV : : Lifetime of learning has gone on her way : Departed the body, left here the cold clay : But legacies of thought and ten lifetimes of lore : Have passed into our keeping ere she left this shore. : : And the packbeasts mewl soft in their stable : And the riderbeasts in their corral : Their mistress strides roads where hooves cannot follow : But our thoughts can, and evermore shall : : Dwellers in mists and the dancers on tides : Merchants on highroad and some poets besides : Healers with thoughtforms and medical arts : Chroniclers of unseen: all now play smaller parts. : : And the huntbirds cry harsh in the closed mews : And the canines howl out at the moons : Their mistress now ranges before them : And her legacy lives on in tunes : : She gave us Society's naming and more : She gave of herself, and knew well the full score: : Laying no debts, she accepted them still, : And so gave our thought-words new will. : : And the writers will pound on their keyboards : And the singers will fumble their strings : What's been long expected no more has rejected : Soft night has spread out her kind wings : : Now, the filkers will sing soft of Heller's cold night : And the huxters sell tales of bold spaceships in flight : The trufen remember, and the fringefen will know, : Avalon's Lady can now watch the whole show. : : Marion, "Mama", we'll miss you : Your kind words, and harsh, and brave smile : Rest now, you have given us lifetimes : We'll see you beyond the last mile. : : * * * * * : : Pax in requiescat, Mater Marion -- : may the Powers grant : that you have taught us all enough. : : Mike C. Baker : SCA: al-Sayyid Amr ibn Majid al-Bakri al-Amra : "Other": Reverend Kihe Blackeagle PULC : (the DreamSinger Bard) : Opinions? I'm FULL of 'em : : ============================================================================ : Go to http://lists.ansteorra.org/lists.html to perform mailing list tasks. : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 21:33:01 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29991 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:33:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09219; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:45:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA21663 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:42:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21655 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:42:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from utulsa.edu (Rppp2-29.net.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FIP007KC2JCMA@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:23:38 -0500 (CDT) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:23:33 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <37EEC715.2BE7B06@utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <199909251652.KAA12320@net.indra.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Marc Carlson <"Hope H. Dunlap" > > Maybe the dress was sewn to accommodate pregnancy, not > tubbiness. You'll note that I said it probably *wasn't* tubbiness, but that they were not "tightly fitted:. It would not surprise me if, rather than making specific clothes for maternity, even as late as the end of the 14th century some people were wearing everyday clothing that could be worn without adjustment whether the wearer was pregnant or not. But that is just supposition. Marc _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 21:37:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30010 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:37:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10114; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:52:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA22642 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:52:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22623 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:52:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip220-11.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.11]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA24796 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:52:03 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990926214244.0096d930@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:42:44 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: skirt guards In-Reply-To: <001201bf074e$1358e660$78d67ad1@pavilion> References: <001b01bf06b7$b1d6f620$cee0a4d8@pavilion> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >If I use a rectangular shaped skirt, would that avoid the stretching? It will fix the stretching problem because there are no bias areas on seams any more. I also second the suggestion of sewing them on after the skirt is assembled. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 21:37:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30008 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:37:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10109; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:52:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA22634 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:52:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22618 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:52:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip220-11.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.11]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA24782 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:52:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990926213654.00987e00@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:36:54 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Ashelford.... In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19990923183006.00976cc0@mail.interlog.com> <001701bf05ff$2e59ce20$3df1a2d0@default> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >However, I did a search on bookfinder.com, and turned up one copy, >through Advanced Book Exchange. The dealer is John Ives Bookseller, also >presumably in the UK, since the price is 13 pounds, 50 pence (sorry, I >can't seem to make the pound symbol with my keyboard!) Thanks! Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 21:37:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30016 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:37:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10115; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:52:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA22650 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:52:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22644 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:52:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip220-11.cc.interlog.com [207.34.220.11]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id WAA24804 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:52:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990926220248.00993420@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:02:48 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: Snoods In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >Would a black snood (net with gold) be appropriate? Or a chrocheted one? In a general way you can see hairnets (a snood is something completely different) in different forms/styles used mainly during the 14th & 16th centuries in SCA period. Most of the one you see people wearing are incorrect. The closer it fits to the head - the better during the 16th century. Also to be perfectly picky, there is no evidence for the use of crochet during the SCA period - it is a *much* later development. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 21:40:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30029 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:39:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10301; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:55:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA22920 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:54:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22906 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:54:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-503.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.251.249]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id MAA24380 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:54:23 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199909270254.MAA24380@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: New Treadle machines! Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:51:00 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" Great, just what we need when all the electricity goes phut on new year's eve. -C. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 21:40:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA30039 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:40:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA10429; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:55:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23071 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:55:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23063 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:55:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.17 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 19:55:09 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Snoods and 14th Century headgear Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:02:54 -0400 Message-ID: <000701bf0895$164170c0$110bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" I got Strutt on ILL (but have to use it in the local library as its the 1840 edition. He mentions nets (cauls) dating back at least until Roman Times. If you do you your research, you will be inundated with choices for 14th Century, French and Italian particularly. There's one plate in Strutt with nothing but women's 14th century headgear on it , perhaps 12 different images. Chaucer is a source for 14th Century descriptions, perhaps about 1380. An on-line text of *The Canterbury Tales* and links to other resources about the age, including pictures are here: http://www.librarius.com/cantales/links.htm Here's some images from Braun & Sneider :http://www.pipcom.com/~tempus/cotehardie/img_bas.html The second to last image is most interesting, but my son's commented that he didn't like them because "They say, I'm the Queen, now deal with it!" Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Jean Waddie > Sent: Sunday, September 26, 1999 1:32 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Snoods > > > > -Poster: Jean Waddie > > > > >Be that as it may, the cotehardie discussion has wetted my > appetite for > >making/wearing them again. I think that I have a good idea > of what dress > >construction I will use, but I'm a bit stumped on the > headwear thing, I > >have generally gone with hoods up until now, but I'd like to vary the > >style a bit. Any suggestions for good 14th century hats would be > >appreciated. > > > >Karen > > I'm afraid I can't really think of anything you would call a hat for > 14th century - "hat" implying something that has a shape of > its own when > not on the head. But you can have lots of fun with veils and nets and > bands and plaits. Try (though I know it's hard) to get hold of the > Visual History 14th & 15th Century, and get a feel for the things you > can do. > > I think the net with fillet and barbette sneaks into the 14th > century - > you need to structure a loose net to hold your hair in bulges > low behind > your ears, and then two bands of linen go over it, one like a > sweatband > around the forehead and one under the chin and over the top. My > personal favourite (if you have the hair) is two plaits coming from > behind the ears (with a very accurate centre parting all the > way over), > then bring them forward under your ears, up the sides of your face and > cross them over the top. You can wear this with a veil that follows > down behind the line of the plaits at the front, or just with a wimple > that comes up and fastens at the base of your hair. > > Have fun! > -- > Jean Waddie > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 22:44:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30129 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:44:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA16540; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:55:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA29507 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:54:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29498 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 21:54:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990927035351.CYGK14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:53:51 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 1999 20:50:16 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Fw: ANST - Marion Zimmer Bradley: Mourning Song From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990927035351.CYGK14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "R.L. Shep" How terrible. I have ALL of the Darkover series.... over 20 volumes. When I am having a crisis in my life I read them When I made my last move to Seattle I started again from the beginning and read them all. It was a comfort and a joy. She will be missed1 ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: "Franchesca Havas" >To: , ,"sca-garb" , , >Subject: H-COST: Fw: ANST - Marion Zimmer Bradley: Mourning Song >Date: Sun, Sep 26, 1999, 6:09 PM > > >-Poster: "Franchesca Havas" > > > >Sincerely, >F. Havas >Dallas, Texas >motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Mike C. Baker >To: >Cc: ; ; >; >Sent: Sunday, September 26, 1999 7:17 PM >Subject: ANST - Marion Zimmer Bradley: Mourning Song > > >: Apologies in advance to those who may receive more than >: one copy of the following. There are sorrowful things to >: relate, and reactions to be recorded as well. >: >: Sir Galen of Bristol had forwarded the following to the >: Ansteorran mailing list >: >: > > I have word, forwarded from the Caid list, that >: > > Marion Zimmer Bradley, author of _Mists of Avalon_ >: > > and the Darkover series (the lady who named the >: > > Society for Creative Anachronism), has suffered a >: > > heart attack and is presently in Alta Bates Hospital >: > > in Berkeley, CA. >: >: According to sources close to the situation in California, >: Marion Zimmer Bradley passed from this existence to her next >: last evening (Saturday, September 25th, A.D.1999). >: _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Sun Sep 26 22:55:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA30139 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:55:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA17615; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:10:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01353 for h-costume-outgoing; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:09:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.mi.verio.com (mail.mi.verio.com [209.69.6.110]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA01348 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 22:09:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from rust.net (69-112.pop.sh.mi.verio.com [209.69.69.112]) by mail.mi.verio.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA21939 for ; Sun, 26 Sep 1999 23:52:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37EEEE8E.B6FFDCAC@rust.net> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 00:11:58 -0400 From: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Organization: The Curiosity Shop X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win98; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-costume Subject: H-COST: [Fwd: fairy wings] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Bill and/or Glenna Jo Christen Can anyone help this person? Since my focus is mid-ninteenth century, I haven't a clue... Please reply directly to the e-mail address below as Scott is not on the list. Thanks Glenna Jo Christen Fashionwk1@aol.com wrote: > I am desperately trying to buy fairy wings for adults. The only site I have > seen has not responed in three weeks. Any other sources? > > thx > > Scott _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 01:35:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA30294 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 01:35:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27110; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 00:49:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA16660 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 00:46:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from exchange.acer.edu.au (exchange.acer.edu.au [203.2.133.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA16655 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 00:46:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by exchange.acer.edu.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:41:18 +1000 Message-ID: From: Harvey Georgia To: "'H-costume'" , "'robin@shell.nightowl.net'" Subject: H-COST: Definately OT - bosum buddies :-) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:41:17 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id AAA16656 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Harvey Georgia - -Poster: Robin Netherton On Sat, 25 Sep 1999, Susan Carroll-Clark wrote: > I've heard several mentions here lately of large cup sizes (things like H > and J; I think the highest I'd ever heard of before was E). Simple, nosey > question: Who makes bras for these sizes? Is it mailorder only, or can you > find things in some stores? I have personally experienced everything from A (I was a late bloomer) to I (nursing my second child). Alas, I have a small ribcage. Susan can tell you that I'm not a huge person -- but since cup size is measured as a difference between ribcage and bust measurements, I end up with a high cup size just because I'm disproportionate. That is, if I had a few more inches around my frame, my cup size would only be a D or DD now, not a G/H. I often compromise by wearing a too-large band size so I can get enough cup (e.g. a 46DD instead of a nonexistent 36H). OBCostume: Maybe this is why I like to wear non-modern clothes... --- Can I suggest Maple Drive? They're a british company, and seem pretty okay at first glance. Also, they only charge £1.99 for shipping WORLDWIDE - where else do you find that???? (I'm in Australia). I'm a 32FF/G. You CANNOT buy a bra in this *country* in that size!! You'd think they'd work it out, but only in the last month have I seen a 32F, but no higher. If I was bigger in the chest, no problem. But, I have a tiny back and frame, and like Robin, it all sticks out in front! Anyway, give them a go: http://www.mapledrive.com/default.asp I recenlty bought a black velvet push up bra, in my size! It took a week to get here, and I'm looking forward to trying it on tonight. I think they stock up to an H cup, in lots of band sizes. Like I said, OT, but good information :-) Georgia _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 06:16:44 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26952 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 06:16:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA10523; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 05:29:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA01050 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 05:27:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA01044 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 05:27:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JGGR4SV8V4003SF3@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:32:12 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JGGR42BGCG0040MX@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:30:15 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:23:10 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:23:02 +1100 Received: from rf_lib_11161 (158.94.198.70) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:20:54 +1100 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:20:53 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress In-reply-to: <199909242007.OAA23017@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <5536FA26750@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: teddy1 > - -Poster: Robin Netherton > I've never had that problem. I've found the close-to-the-body armhole and > the tension on the neckline (which is a curve pulled wider) hug the dress > right to the body. It sure *looks* precarious, though! Remember to make > sure the breasts are in their maximum highest position while you're > fitting, so they can't bounce out in wear -- doing some fitting while > lying down is essential. (Hmm, maybe gravity boots ... ;-D ) I'll certainly try it next time. Not having the physical nececcities for it myself, it'll have to be tried on other prople... Sometimes, however, I find myself holding my breath when people are being... erm... less than decorous while wearing low cut garments I have made them. > Yep. I make lacing holes fairly early on in the process, but I don't do > the top two or three sets of holes till I'm sure I don't need to shape > that top inch or two of center opening. I'll have to try that too. > Hey, I'll take you here anytime! My husband can barely lace. I've also > given up on teaching him how to braid my hair. I do hair too.... Sometimes I wonder if I out to set up shop and *charge* for it. Once one person asks, a queue forms! Not that I *mind* having the opportunity to play with all that hair, but sometimes I'd like the chance to finishe getting into my garb *first*.... Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 07:43:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA27082 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:43:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16243; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 06:56:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA09040 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 06:54:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo11.mx.aol.com (imo11.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA09034 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 06:54:51 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo11.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6RDYa14262 (4574) for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:54:17 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <19bd0499.2520c2f8@aol.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:54:16 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: cauls To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com Karen's posts on the difference between snoods and cauls reminded me of a question I have never seen answered. Maybe I just haven't looked in the right place. Anyway, I want to make a cal but I can't for the life of me figure out how they stay on. Do they have fitted bands around the outside, so they're sort of like caps? Is there a drawstring to fit one to the head? Do they need tons of pins? Gail Finke _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 08:29:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27143 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:29:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA20545; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:44:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA15254 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:44:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.derby.ac.uk (mail1.derby.ac.uk [195.194.177.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA15239 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 07:44:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: from csv6.derby.ac.uk (csv6.derby.ac.uk [193.60.145.14]) by mail1.derby.ac.uk (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA25023.; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:50:00 +0100 (BST) Received: from staff-Message_Server by csv6.derby.ac.uk with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:43:19 +0100 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5.2 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:42:58 +0100 From: "KATE M BUNTING" To: Subject: H-COST: Re: 1900 House TV programme Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id HAA15244 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "KATE M BUNTING" I'm enjoying this series too. There was a preliminary programme last Wednesday about how they prepared the house for the project. For the benefit of our American friends, it is on Channel 4 (our second commercial channel) not BBC. (Thursdays at 9.00). Let's hope it gets sold to US TV. Kate Bunting Library, University of Derby _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 09:13:23 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27356 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:13:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25273; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:25:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA22590 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:25:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22569 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:25:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA19490 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:25:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA25386 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:25:33 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:25:33 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: cauls In-Reply-To: <19bd0499.2520c2f8@aol.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed > > > Karen's posts on the difference between snoods and cauls reminded me of a > question I have never seen answered. Maybe I just haven't looked in the right > place. Anyway, I want to make a cal but I can't for the life of me figure out > how they stay on. Do they have fitted bands around the outside, so they're > sort of like caps? Is there a drawstring to fit one to the head? Do they need > tons of pins? Hi Gail! I've heard some people say that the hair was braided around the back of the head, giving the caul something to sit on. As I myself have hair way to short for this option, I cheat and use a stretchy comb sewn into the band around the caul front. It does help it stay on from dawn to dusk. Drea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 09:34:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27410 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:34:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA28354; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:49:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27318 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:48:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27293; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:48:30 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EMJGPJM4; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:47:54 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:38:54 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: cauls Message-ID: <19990927.094211.-550295.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 12-38 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com As I construct them, cauls are just gathered onto a regular band. The trick is to make them snug to your head (not tight, not loose, just snug) and then use one comb sewn into the center front. When you wear it, the comb will sit in front of the highest part of your skull, which on me is a bit more than halfway back. Remember that the caul is worn on the back of the head so the band will sit behind the ears. I know that there are some ladies who have very slick hair, I don't know what to tell you. But I have waist length, very thick hair and even if I just stuff it up into the caul without making a bun or anything, a well fitted caul with one comb holds everything just fine thru vigorous walking and Italian Ren dancing. And since the surface area ia quite small, they are great for going all out in decoration. I usually make a caul to match each set of sleeves/foreparts. Karen On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:54:16 EDT Gaelscot@aol.com writes: > > -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > > > > Karen's posts on the difference between snoods and cauls reminded me > of a > question I have never seen answered. Maybe I just haven't looked in > the right > place. Anyway, I want to make a cal but I can't for the life of me > figure out > how they stay on. Do they have fitted bands around the outside, so > they're > sort of like caps? Is there a drawstring to fit one to the head? Do > they need > tons of pins? > > Gail Finke > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 09:47:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27435 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:47:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00186; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:02:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA00543 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:01:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00528 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:01:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA19730 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:00:57 -0400 Message-ID: <37EF86AB.430B8DC6@thibault.org> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:01:00 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: cauls References: <19990927.094211.-550295.0.seamstrix@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue My head is not shaped right for keeping on any sort of hair-netlike item, so I pin it to the barbette/band. Works very well. -- The most outrageous lies that can be invented will find believers if a person only tells them with all his might. -- Mark Twain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 09:52:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27444 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:52:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA00918; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:07:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01819 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:06:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [209.246.15.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01808 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:06:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA02164 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id IAA27898; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:06:47 -0700 Message-ID: <37EF87E0.821DAEC6@us.oracle.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:06:08 -0400 From: Elizabeth Jones Organization: Oracle Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume Subject: H-COST: 1520's Raphael-like portrait Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Jones Michelle wrote: It occurred to me after I posted this link that the woman is probably wearing an apron and that her skirt does indeed match. Oh well.. http://www.marquise.de/material/1500/1580_2.jpg I was about to reply saying the same thing, but then thought about it some more. I tend to agree that it is an apron, as I cannot remember seeing dresses of this type with unmatching skirts. However, I can also not remember seeing an apron on someone sitting for a formal portrait. The head towel (Perugina, I believe) makes it seem like she is more casual than probably intended. Liz Jones _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 10:01:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27478 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:01:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA02372; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:16:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA04457 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:16:47 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [209.246.15.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04435 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:16:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA05627 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:16:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id IAA08405; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:16:38 -0700 Message-ID: <37EF8A2F.6F8D92A9@us.oracle.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:15:59 -0400 From: Elizabeth Jones Organization: Oracle Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume Subject: H-COST: What is this picture? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Jones What is this garment? http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/images/High.Italian.Renaissance/CJ38.gif Liz Jones _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 10:40:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27553 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:40:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10368; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:54:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA14797 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:54:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA14789 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:54:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.405) with smtp for sender: id ; Mon, 27 Sep 99 10:54:02 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <00e701bf0900$0bc3e220$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: H-COST: Picture, picture, who knows the picture Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:50:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" Maybe the subject line should have read painting instead but oh well....on to the actual question....Does anyone know who anything about this portrait? This is the first time I have ever seen it and would like to know more about it. http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/images/Elizabethan.Women /CM11.jpg Thank you, Carol Ross _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 11:04:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27634 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:04:01 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16735; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:18:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA22526 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:18:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.tn.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22518 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:18:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990927161503.SOFE13734.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 09:15:03 -0700 Message-ID: <37EF9826.C6A17EAC@home.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:15:34 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Definately OT - bosum buddies :-) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kat & Kent Harvey Georgia wrote: > > I have personally experienced everything from A (I was a late bloomer) > to I (nursing my second child). Alas, I have a small ribcage. Susan > can tell you that I'm not a huge person -- but since cup size is > measured as a difference between ribcage and bust measurements, I end > up with a high cup size just because I'm disproportionate. That is, if > I had a few more inches around my frame, my cup size would only be a D > or DD now, not a G/H. I often compromise by wearing a too-large band > size so I can get enough cup (e.g. a 46DD instead of a nonexistent > 36H). Before I had children I was a 32 D or DD... try finding those!! I have a friend who wears a 32 DD also and she's had as much trouble... here in Nashville it's easier to find a 36H! I'm now at a 36 DD but if things change I'll have to head to Rebecca Vaughns to buy bras... although some of the major chains (Dillards, Castner-Knotts & Sears) have started carrying larger sizes. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 11:23:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27679 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:23:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20039; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:37:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA27869 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:37:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from na-ims.alcoa.com ([147.154.3.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA27834 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:37:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by NA-IMS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:36:53 -0400 Message-ID: <0B3E3AA67456D311A9FC0000E889ED9809F514@na-dpw1.dpw.alcoa.com> From: "Fairchild, Connie E." To: "'h-costume-digest@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: New Treadle Machines Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:30:40 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Fairchild, Connie E." > Janice Dallas wrote: > > I was pleasantly surprised to find a new treadle machine offered in a > recent Sears-Home Center catalog. It's a "Singer Nostalgic Sewing > Machine with Cabinet and Stand". Looks like the old White I first > learned on at my mother's knee! Non-electric and imported from > somewhere (non-USA made). It goes for US$299.99. > There are many treadle (Singer and other brands) sewing machines around in antique shops and at auctions that you can pick up for very little. I've seen them for around $40, and at auction you may be lucky enough to pay much less. Although, I paid considerably more for my elderly neighbor's machine which was her mother's. I would be very reluctant to purchase this machine you mention since Singer has declared bankruptcy. In the opinion of many, their machines haven't been quality for some years and parts for this "hybrid" may be non-existant. You would have a much better quality machine if you were to find a nice "orphan" machine. There is an antique sewing machine newsgroup which is very friendly and would help you find manuals, parts, and accessories for your machine -- no matter what brand you choose. There is also a treadle sewing machine site as well. I would highly recommend an antique machine because with a little loving care and fresh oil they will purr forever for you. Connie Fairchild _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 11:33:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27713 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:33:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22192; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:48:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA01247 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:48:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.inil.com (inil.com [206.31.32.8]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01229 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 10:48:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [206.31.165.96] by mail.inil.com (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 177-57935U7500L650S0V35) with ESMTP id com; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:48:27 -0500 X-Sender: baddorf@pop3.inil.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990926155317.00a0d950@pop.primenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:49:39 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Deb Baddorf Subject: Re: H-COST: Need instructions/suggestions for making... Cc: kittykat@primenet.com Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Deb Baddorf >-Poster: Svanhildr Valdimarsdottir > >"lined" rectangular draw-string bags. Unlined bags would be a snap, but I'm >not sure how to go about doing lined ones. > >Anyone out there with instructions and pictures/drawings? I'll glady send a >postage paid envelope if they are not webbased or easily done in email :-> It's a snap! I made a few from scrap silky-poly material for last Christmas, just to give to my neices with plastic "jewels" inside. They love the bags as much as the jewels! Cut an oval or a rectangle of fabric, twice as long as you want your bag. __________ / \ | | | | | | | | |-----------| | | | | | | | | \ / ----------- Fold in half on the middle line: |-----------| | | | | | | | | \ / ----------- Cut a second one, identically. Fold the same say. Lay on top of the first one. Sew a seam down the left side, the bottom, and the right side (not the folded edges). LEAVE 1/2 to 1" unsewn at the top of both sides. I.E. don't sew all the way to the folded edge. Now, reach into the unsewn part, under only ONE layer of fabric. Three layers will be to one side of your fingers, one layer to the other side. Turn it inside out, through that unsewn hole. VOILA! A lined bag, with the seams all hidden. Add a line of stitching around the top (1/2 - 1" down) for your drawstring casing. Fold inside, or otherwise fix, those unsewn edges of the casing (the unsewn bits where you turned it). I left them unsewn, with a little fray-check on them, but you might care about them. Try it once with some scrap fabric, and decide for yourself what to do about the raw edges. Deb Baddorf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 11:52:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27755 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:52:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25302; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:06:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA06152 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:06:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA06135 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:06:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA27852 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:06:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA09705 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:06:56 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:06:56 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Picture, picture, who knows the picture In-Reply-To: <00e701bf0900$0bc3e220$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: aleed It's by Francois Clouet, probably around 1570. the picture is "Queen Marguerite as a girl", and is a good example of 1570s French fashion. Drea It looks like a Clouet...probably around 1570. If you go up one directory and access the main page, they include info on the pictures. On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Genevieve de Courtanvaux wrote: > > -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" > > Maybe the subject line should have read painting instead but oh well....on > to the actual question....Does anyone know who anything about this portrait? > This is the first time I have ever seen it and would like to know more about > it. > http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/images/Elizabethan.Women > /CM11.jpg > > Thank you, > Carol Ross > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 11:57:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27769 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:57:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26666; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:12:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA08028 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:12:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08020 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:12:14 -0600 (MDT) From: Schmitt100@aol.com Received: from Schmitt100@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6QIRa26655 (3998) for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:11:34 EDT Subject: H-COST: 14th century Dress To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Schmitt100@aol.com In a message dated 09/26/1999 11:59:48 AM Central Daylight Time, owner-h-costume-digest@indra.com writes: > > I was thinking of making an attempt at the 4-panel dress Robin described, > > and was contemplating wearing a sports bra for fitting- it's the one-piece > > kind that flatten one's breasts against the chest wall, making "mounds". > > It's supportive because the breasts are against the chest, not because of > > any cantilevering. Is there a pattern for this sort of dress anywhere? Or is this one of those "do it yourself" type things? As I am trying to do this sort of thing on my own with no real experience, without any helpers (my hubby will do hems, but that's about it!) a pattern really helps! ********************** Rebecca Schmitt So many books, so little time Patience is not passive; on the contrary, it is active; it is concentrated strength. - Edward G. Bulwer-Lytton schmitt100@aol.com ********************** _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 12:06:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27780 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:06:09 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27998; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:20:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA10068 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:20:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10051 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:20:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA13018 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:20:03 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp202-45.worldonline.nl [195.241.202.45]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA24481 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:20:02 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909271720.TAA24481@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Maciejowski Bible Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:02:07 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Thanks Marsha, now I have a title I can find the book. I love this list. Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 12:50:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27845 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:50:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05844; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:05:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21616 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:04:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21605 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:04:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA16020 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:04:28 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:04:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: New Treadle machines! In-Reply-To: <37f76d1d.66131486@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley The Lehman's catalog has them, too: http://www.lehmans.com/ I have an old Singer that's technically functional, though I've never been able to get the tension to work properly. Hand-stitching doesn't bother me that much, especially since I can do it on my daily commute (my DH does the driving, and I don't get car-sick). Regards, Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 12:53:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27860 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:53:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06332; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:07:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA22346 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:07:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.worldaccessnet.com (IDENT:EnHpt2L6vnxNWbSTOAJpbS/pdra7VF7q@worldaccessnet.com [206.190.139.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA22332 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:07:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by vortex.worldaccessnet.com id m11VfBE-000dL2C; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:07:16 -0700 (PDT) (Smail3.2.0.91#4) Received: from UNKNOWN(206.190.132.154), claiming to be "sidne" via SMTP by worldaccessnet.com, id smtpdAAAa000RC; Mon Sep 27 11:06:55 1999 Message-ID: <000a01bf0912$d7de61c0$9a84bece@sidne> From: "Sidne Kneeland" To: "ANSAXNET Discussion Forum" Cc: References: Subject: H-COST: Off-topic contact needed Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 11:05:05 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Sidne Kneeland" Greetings all - short diversion from the regular bandwidth... I need to contact a company (or companies) who publish postcards for the V&A Museum in London. If anybody on these lists has a name they could give me - just email directly to me and not to the list, I'd appreciate it. TIA, Sidne _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 13:22:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27966 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:22:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11382; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:37:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29122 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:37:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29102 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:37:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA21550 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:37:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:37:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: Costume List Subject: H-COST: Duct Tape Double / Men Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Has anyone here made a Duct Tape Double for men? I think it's going to be necessary so that I can get a proper fit for my DH's kit, without driving him nuts with repeated fittings. Other than the obvious (no foundation garments), what is different from doing this for women? -- Mara _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 14:04:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28036 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:04:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA18802; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:18:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA09277 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:18:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web202.mail.yahoo.com (web202.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.102]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA09270 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:18:07 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990927191819.21358.rocketmail@web202.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [194.168.181.156] by web202.mail.yahoo.com; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:18:19 PDT Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 12:18:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Dora Barnes Subject: H-COST: Body shapes To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dora Barnes I have trawled through the h-cost archives at http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion/archives/index.cgi? and I can't find any help with this question so here goes. It is very easy to find photographs and portraits etc of people in 18C, 19C and Edwardian costume which display the appropriate body shape posture due to corsets and other restrictions. Is there anyone on this list who can help me with finding some evidence, preferably photographic, which shows : Here is 1999 person in 1999 shape Here is same person in 18 /19 C shape. It would be interesting to compare this against the "true" shape of 18/19 women. Dora __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 14:30:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA28085 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:30:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23586; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:44:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA16026 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:44:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fargpop1.farg.uswest.net (fargpop1.farg.uswest.net [207.109.224.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA16018 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:44:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 3880 invoked by alias); 27 Sep 1999 19:44:05 -0000 Delivered-To: fixup-h-costume@indra.com@fixme Received: (qmail 3865 invoked by uid 0); 27 Sep 1999 19:44:03 -0000 Received: from bdsl99.farg.uswest.net (HELO john) (209.181.216.99) by fargpop1.farg.uswest.net with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 19:44:03 -0000 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.19990927144227.00abe780@rrnet.com> X-Sender: baird@rrnet.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:43:21 -0500 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "J,K,S&A Baird" Subject: Re: H-COST: Body shapes In-Reply-To: <19990927191819.21358.rocketmail@web202.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "J,K,S&A Baird" I would look for movie actresses, especially the English ones. Get a look at the actress in period costume and in current fashion. Kim At 12:18 PM 09/27/1999 -0700, you wrote: >-Poster: Dora Barnes > >I have trawled through the h-cost archives at >http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion/archives/index.cgi? >and I can't find any help with this question so here >goes. > >It is very easy to find photographs and portraits etc >of people in 18C, 19C and Edwardian costume which >display the appropriate body shape posture due to >corsets and other restrictions. Is there anyone on >this list who can help me with finding some evidence, >preferably photographic, which shows : > >Here is 1999 person in 1999 shape >Here is same person in 18 /19 C shape. > >It would be interesting to compare this against the >"true" shape of 18/19 women. > >Dora > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 15:09:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28229 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:09:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA00660; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:21:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA25363 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:21:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA25344 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:21:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990927202133.HFGS14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:21:33 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:25:22 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Body shapes From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990927202133.HFGS14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "R.L. Shep" You might try contacting Alicia Annas, Dept of Theatre, San Diego State University. This is her area of specialty - body shapes and body movement in period dress. She has written and lecured on the subject. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: Dora Barnes >To: h-costume@indra.com >Subject: H-COST: Body shapes >Date: Mon, Sep 27, 1999, 12:18 PM > > >-Poster: Dora Barnes > >I have trawled through the h-cost archives at >http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~fashion/archives/index.cgi? >and I can't find any help with this question so here >goes. > >It is very easy to find photographs and portraits etc >of people in 18C, 19C and Edwardian costume which >display the appropriate body shape posture due to >corsets and other restrictions. Is there anyone on >this list who can help me with finding some evidence, >preferably photographic, which shows : > >Here is 1999 person in 1999 shape >Here is same person in 18 /19 C shape. > >It would be interesting to compare this against the >"true" shape of 18/19 women. > >Dora > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 15:25:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28251 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:25:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04469; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:40:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA29965 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:40:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29955 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:40:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.163.141]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA12498 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:40:20 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37EFD6CA.4AA9CAE@mediaone.net> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:42:50 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Janice Dallas Period Patterns has one. It's part of Early Tudor Women's Gowns - 1490-1535 A.D. It's the earliest style on that. PMM-51 is Multisized 6 -20, costs $22.95 or so at AlterYears, 626-585-2994. Be warned, however, to look for the break in the black line on the center front edge and rematch it (don't extend it!) before cutting out or your top front will prow out. I've had very good luck with this on a chorus of 30 women, but it's always helpful to do a muslin first. -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 15:30:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA28273 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:30:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA04275; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:39:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA29765 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:39:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (rumpleteazer.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.45]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA29755 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 14:39:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU (IDENT:31907@ese.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.43]) by cats.ucsc.edu (8.9.3/8.8.4.cats-athena) with ESMTP id NAA15084 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:39:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ariyana@localhost) by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.8.8/8.8.8.cats-client) id NAA25101; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:39:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:39:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Ariyana Kylstram X-Sender: ariyana@ese.UCSC.EDU To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: cauls In-Reply-To: <199909271448.IAA27382@net.indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Ariyana Kylstram I have slick, long, fine, straight hair. Here's what I do: 1) make a fitted band with no elastic in it 2) attach a metal haircomb into the center top of it so that it will not show at all (usually this requires handstitching it to the inside of the band, with the teeth pointing so that when it's on your head they will point backwards) 3) braid my hair in two french braids, one on each side, gathering them together into a bun at the back of my head 4) Put the caul on, sliding the comb into the hair between the braids, which should be pointing in two different directions because the hair is parted down the middle b///p\\\b r///a\\\r a///r\\\a i///t\\\i d///|\\\d This holds my caul on through full days in court Elizabethans, including dancing and getting in trouble (what else are Maids of Honor supposed to do? -- just kidding) .ari The Lady Ariyana of House Kylstram ariyana@cats.ucsc.edu http://www.kithrup.com/~ariyana/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 16:17:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28406 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:17:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12924; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:30:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12469 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:30:09 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net (wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net [192.48.96.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12447 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:30:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from jwilbur1 by wodc7mr3.ffx.ops.us.uu.net with SMTP (peer crosschecked as: og3pool109-80.corp.us.uu.net [153.39.109.80]) id QQhinm24655 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:31:51 GMT Message-Id: From: "Jessica Wilbur" To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:33:37 -0400 Subject: Re: H-COST: Snoods Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <19990926.092949.-633591.1.seamstrix@juno.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.00 beta 6) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Jessica Wilbur" > I think the net with fillet and barbette sneaks into the 14th century - > you need to structure a loose net to hold your hair in bulges low behind > your ears, and then two bands of linen go over it, one like a sweatband > around the forehead and one under the chin and over the top. My > personal favourite (if you have the hair) is two plaits coming from > behind the ears (with a very accurate centre parting all the way over), > then bring them forward under your ears, up the sides of your face and > cross them over the top. You can wear this with a veil that follows > down behind the line of the plaits at the front, or just with a wimple > that comes up and fastens at the base of your hair. > My Laurel does a variation of this on my hair when I'm wearing 14th century. She makes two braids very high and forward, right at the top of my head on either side, and then folds them under so that they hang to about shoulder height (my hair is normally butt-length). They hang right next to my face (think basset hound ears), and they are bobby pinned to death! Otherwise they don't stay up. The ends are bobby pinned to the start of the braid right next to my scalp. The hardest part of doing this style is getting the braids to hang evenly. Over the braids goes a short veil, a little longer than the braids, and a metal fillet over all so that it stays in place. We usually pin the veil into the braids so that it really stays put. There is a picture of a statue with a similar hairstyle in Boucher, but I don't recall what page or who the statue is. There is no veil on the statue, however, just the fillet. I think the veil makes it easier to hide the ends and bobby pins, though. I wish I had a picture of me with this hairstyle, but I don't have any at the moment. I'll try to get some and post them on a web page or something. And for the record, I live in a kingdom where metal circlets are allowed, regardless of social rank. I would really prefer to avoid starting a thread about SCA sumptuary laws! =) --Jessica _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 16:43:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28460 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:43:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16718; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:55:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA18290 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:55:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA18131 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:55:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from montgomerie.demon.co.uk ([194.222.199.37]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 11Vija-0002B8-0K for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:54:59 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:50:20 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Jean Waddie Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: cauls In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a <$wEBjsSJlUex9q9c790bp3afMD> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jean Waddie > >-Poster: aleed > >> >> >> Karen's posts on the difference between snoods and cauls reminded me of a >> question I have never seen answered. Maybe I just haven't looked in the right >> place. Anyway, I want to make a cal but I can't for the life of me figure out >> how they stay on. Do they have fitted bands around the outside, so they're >> sort of like caps? Is there a drawstring to fit one to the head? Do they need >> tons of pins? > >Hi Gail! > >I've heard some people say that the hair was braided around the back of >the head, giving the caul something to sit on. This is the solution I use. The band comes forward in front of the braids, and it just stays there through thick and thin. Jean >As I myself have hair way >to short for this option, I cheat and use a stretchy comb sewn into the >band around the caul front. It does help it stay on from dawn to dusk. > >Drea > -- Jean Waddie _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 17:21:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28542 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:21:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23155; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:35:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA27754 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:35:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp5.mindspring.com (smtp5.mindspring.com [207.69.200.82]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27730 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-33qscr2.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.51.98]) by smtp5.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA03889 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00ec01bf0938$a9b20ce0$6233aec7@oemcomputer> From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:35:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" -----Original Message----- From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 11:51 Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling > >Virtuous frugality indeed. :) I *like* it. I personally felt *Very* >virtuous the other day when I did all my mending. It's as if I have new >clothes. *G* But this is a great idea. Thrift stores are great these days >but has anyone noticed that there just aren't as many places to drop things off >at anymore Well, if you have an Orthodox or Catholic church around, see if they have an annual garage sale. They take stuff in all year round, and then sell it in a large sale to raise money for projects around the year. Most Orhtodox and Catholic monastaries and convents do the same. Anya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 17:32:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA28560 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:32:22 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25544; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:46:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00267 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:45:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fortune.excite.com (fortune-rwcmta.excite.com [198.3.99.203]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00255 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:45:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bronty.excite.com ([199.172.153.112]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with ESMTP id <19990927224511.LDKD1457.fortune@bronty.excite.com> for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:45:11 -0700 From: "StitchWitch" To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling Message-Id: <938472318.6591.257@excite.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:45:18 PDT X-Mailer: Excite Mail X-Sender-Ip: 144.163.130.106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "StitchWitch" > Thrift stores are great these > days > >but has anyone noticed that there just aren't as many places to drop things > off > >at anymore If you are near the Bellevue, Washington area, the Children's Hospital thrift store takes donations during business hours on weekdays. They are very nice, and it all goes to a good cause. Now, a question somewhat remotly related to the purpose of this list . . . What is the most interesting vintage/antique item of clothing you've found at such shops? And what did you pay for it? I'd be interested in seeing what folk have found in their various locations, being the thrift store junkie that I am. Kate ---- StitchWitch Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim. - Santayana, Life of Reason, 1905 ________________________________________________________________ Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at http://voicemail.excite.com Talk online at http://voicechat.excite.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 18:05:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA28591 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:05:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA00841; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:19:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA07167 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:19:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.cho.org (mail.cho.org [209.77.137.36]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA07159 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:19:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [172.19.1.35] ([172.19.1.35]) by mail.cho.org; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:19:02 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: ldownward@198.211.240.120 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <938472318.6591.257@excite.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:19:44 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Lynn Downward Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Lynn Downward >-Poster: "StitchWitch" > >> Thrift stores are great these >> days >> >but has anyone noticed that there just aren't as many places to drop >things >> off >> >at anymore > >If you are near the Bellevue, Washington area, the Children's Hospital >thrift store takes donations during business hours on weekdays. They are >very nice, and it all goes to a good cause. > >Now, a question somewhat remotly related to the purpose of this list . . . >What is the most interesting vintage/antique item of clothing you've found >at such shops? And what did you pay for it? I'd be interested in seeing what >folk have found in their various locations, being the thrift store junkie >that I am. > >Kate >---- >StitchWitch > >Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your >aim. - Santayana, Life of Reason, 1905 > About 15 years ago I bought a practically brand new Pendleton woman's jacket - fit perfectly and wasn't even missing a button. I paid $2.50 for it. I wore it to death on weekends for years and finally tired of it. It still looked good when I sent it off to another thrift store. Not my style anymore, but it was pretty good at the time. More recently I bought a wool/silk blend suit jacket for 5.00. Only fit me for a couple of years, but it too was recycled to a thrift store once grew out of it. I've found the beautiful pewter goblets that were once sold at the California renaissance faires for $50 up in thrifts for $5-10. LynnD _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 19:20:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28658 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:20:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA10966; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:32:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA19357 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:31:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19350 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:31:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p15.directcon.net [206.170.184.64]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA07988 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:30:23 -0700 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:30:23 -0700 Message-Id: <199909280030.RAA07988@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson . >What is the most interesting vintage/antique item of clothing you've found >at such shops? Does it have to be clothing? My all time best purchase was a set of four huge drapery panels in a perfectly period brocade, in a rayon/cotton blend that looks like silk. They started out yellowish green, but I dyed them bronze-ish forest green and made Elizabethan court costumes for my husband and I, which can be seen at http://www.directcon.net/wander/216th.htm. Oh, the price? $40. I used to live near a Salvation Army that got rolls and bolts of trim fairly frequently, so I have 220 yards of black crochet-looking edging, 20 yards of red moss fringe, and a bolt of black tassel fringe. I also got a Japanese braiding stool in an elegant wooden carying box for $3. They thought it was a game! Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 19:33:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28723 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:33:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13046; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:46:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA21646 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:46:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx20.rmci.net (saturn.rmci.net [205.162.184.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA21640 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:46:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 32301 invoked from network); 27 Sep 1999 22:38:39 -0000 Received: from pag-di40.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.40) by mx20.rmci.net with SMTP; 27 Sep 1999 22:38:39 -0000 Message-ID: <37F00ED1.DEC96B8B@rica.net> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:41:54 -0400 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: New Treadle machines! References: <870e4fdd.251fc3a9@aol.com> <37f76d1d.66131486@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Jennie Chancey The Lehman's Non-electric Catalogue (http://www.lehmans.com) sells these new Singer machines, but I have only heard bad reviews. They are cheaply made in China, and the cabinet is not solid wood, but pressed fiberboard. A friend who bought one returned it after several of the parts broke (cheap metal). She said your best bet is to find an old one on eBay or at a flea market. Just my two cents, Jennie Chancey -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 19:41:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28732 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:41:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13830; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:55:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA22713 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:54:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tx.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA22700 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:54:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a ([24.4.53.172]) by news.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990928005453.OSJO16994.news.rdc1.tx.home.com@c59303a> for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:54:53 -0700 Message-ID: <00bd01bf094c$40e9eca0$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: Duct Tape Double / Men Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:55:08 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" I have a friend that is in the process of doing one for himself. I will ask him about it and forward him your email if you like. Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: Costume List Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 1:37 PM Subject: H-COST: Duct Tape Double / Men : : -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley : : Has anyone here made a Duct Tape Double for men? I think it's going to be : necessary so that I can get a proper fit for my DH's kit, without driving : him nuts with repeated fittings. Other than the obvious (no foundation : garments), what is different from doing this for women? : : -- Mara : : : _________________________________________________________________ : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 19:44:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28739 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:44:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14084; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:58:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA23181 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:58:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA23172 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:58:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id KAA06127 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:28:09 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65v4.0/1.1.19.2/11Aug99-1220PM) id AA11549; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:28:08 +0930 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:28:08 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling In-Reply-To: <938472318.6591.257@excite.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, StitchWitch wrote: > Now, a question somewhat remotly related to the purpose of this list . . . > What is the most interesting vintage/antique item of clothing you've found > at such shops? And what did you pay for it? I'd be interested in seeing what > folk have found in their various locations, being the thrift store junkie > that I am. > Unfortunately I've had to pass on all the really great stuff I've come across. Once I founbd this lovely pair of green flares, but they didn't fit, and another time, a green silk velvet skirt but that was $40. That didn't fit either (must have been made for an Amazon it nearly came up to my chin), and I don't know what I would have cut it up for as it wasn't very wide. But absolutely the best thing I actually got my hands on second-hand was my mother's old curtains. They were made of upholstery weifght old-gold velvet and there were eioght of them, each 1m x 2m in size. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 20:11:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28833 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:11:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA16725; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:23:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA27219 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:23:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27199 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:23:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (216-164-48-126.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com [216.164.48.126]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA17544 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:23:14 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002801bf0950$76be9b60$0200a8c0@pavilion> From: "Megan McHugh" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:26:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Megan McHugh" Teddy said: Not that I *mind* having the opportunity to play with all that hair, but sometimes I'd like the chance to finishe getting into my garb *first*.... Where oh where were you before I cut off my hair?????? (It's growing back, I like short but miss the braids too) I never met anyone who had a clue how to do my hair! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 20:16:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28852 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:16:41 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17337; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:29:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA28108 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:28:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA28094 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:28:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990928012854.IRKZ14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:28:54 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 18:32:41 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990928012854.IRKZ14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "R.L. Shep" I have a friend here in Seattle who has for years been a Thrift Shop junkie. She has developed the knack. She walks into the store and immediately finds all the good designer clothing. She buys it if it is good. It is not a matter of size. What has resulted is a great collection of designer clothing - much of which has already been donated to a museum at a great tax advantage for her! The other side of it is that she has become anexpert on such clothing which she backs up with a great library on the subject. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" >To: >Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling >Date: Mon, Sep 27, 1999, 3:35 PM > > >-Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris >To: h-costume@indra.com >Date: Wednesday, September 22, 1999 11:51 >Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling > >> >>Virtuous frugality indeed. :) I *like* it. I personally felt *Very* >>virtuous the other day when I did all my mending. It's as if I have new >>clothes. *G* But this is a great idea. Thrift stores are great these >days >>but has anyone noticed that there just aren't as many places to drop things >off >>at anymore > > >Well, if you have an Orthodox or Catholic church around, see if they have an >annual garage sale. They take stuff in all year round, and then sell it in a >large sale to raise money for projects around the year. Most Orhtodox and >Catholic monastaries and convents do the same. > >Anya > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 21:06:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28894 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:06:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23153; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:19:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA05993 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:18:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA05986 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:18:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.0.170.52]) by mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990928021849.DAMT650.mail.rdc1.sdca.home.com@home.com> for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:18:49 -0700 Message-ID: <37F023AF.4A9122DD@home.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:10:55 -0700 From: Russell Hedges Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling References: <938472318.6591.257@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Russell Hedges StitchWitch wrote: > Now, a question somewhat remotly related to the purpose of this list . . . > What is the most interesting vintage/antique item of clothing you've found > at such shops? And what did you pay for it? I'd be interested in seeing what > folk have found in their various locations, being the thrift store junkie > that I am. > That got me into this thread. I have only one tuxedo, and it was purchased at a shop in the Thrift Shop Strip Mall here in Poway (near San diego) three years ago. Tail coat, vest, slacks, suspenders. There is a tag in it that says March 1945. $10.00. Not bad. Russell Hedges _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 21:31:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28905 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:31:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26679; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:44:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA09852 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:43:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.md.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.md.home.com [24.2.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA09846 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:43:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shadow ([24.5.81.24]) by mail.rdc1.md.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990928024347.FYEY29344.mail.rdc1.md.home.com@shadow> for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:43:47 -0700 Message-ID: <37F0555B.223B@home.com> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:42:51 -0700 From: Freya Organization: House Wolfholme X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Bodice Fitting challenge References: <003601bf0849$25e28420$318dfea9@gunsafes> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Freya Michelle wrote: > > -Poster: "Michelle" > > Margo, > This may be what that padded roll was designed for in the Elizabethan > Costuming book, Savory and Winter. Do you think it would help? > Michelle > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > > > >I have just been presented with a formidable problem: I have a friend who > >would like a Ren Faire "wench" bodice. She's a largish woman, maybe a size > >20, except that she has very large breasts. I believe she said a J cup. > >They are (each) larger than her head, and not surprisingly hang to her > >waistline. > > > >She would like something that holds them up somewhat, keeping them held in > >place for comfort, without pushing them up to her chin. I'm not sure where > >to start patterning something like this. Can anyone offer advice? > > > >Margo > >Margo Anderson > >"One Tough Costumer" > >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Padded roll, eh? What padded roll. Tell me more, please. I wear a G or H cup depending on which band size I get. I'm trying to achieve the Tudor or Elizabethan look but I'm running into the folding boning problem also. I either have to lace way too tight and moosh every thing into immobility or gravity wins the battle in a rather uncomfortable and unattractive manner. -- Freya Abair ach beag, is abair gu math e. Say but little, and say it well. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 21:38:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA28912 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:38:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27601; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:51:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA11073 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:51:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11067 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:51:38 -0600 (MDT) From: Kijee@aol.com Received: from Kijee@aol.com by imo19.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6EUPa23994 (3994) for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:50:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:50:54 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Duct Tape Double / Men To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0.1 for Mac sub 84 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kijee@aol.com In a message dated 9/27/99 7:38:42 PM, you wrote: <> I made one for my husband a number of months ago. My #1 tip: the first piece of tape goes over the mouth! Just kidding. I had him wear a old turtle neck instead of a T-shirt so that I could continue the tape fairly high up on the neck. He works out a lot so that fitting a standing collar is always a challenge. I also had a chair handy for him to grab on because he was not used to standing still for an extended period of time. Good luck and have fun! Kij Greenwood _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 22:09:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28982 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:09:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA01503; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:22:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA15842 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:22:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA15827 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:22:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p15.directcon.net [206.170.184.64]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA28485 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:21:03 -0700 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:21:03 -0700 Message-Id: <199909280321.UAA28485@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Duct Tape Double / Men Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson At 07:55 PM 09/27/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >-Poster: "Franchesca Havas" > >I have a friend that is in the process of doing one for himself. I will ask >him about it and forward him your email if you like. Please do! My husband and I are both puzzled an intrigued as to HOW he is doing one for himself! Margo Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 22:24:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29007 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:24:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA03779; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:37:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA18378 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:37:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tx.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tx.home.com [24.4.0.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18370 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:37:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from c59303a ([24.4.53.172]) by news.rdc1.tx.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <19990928033718.QFGN16994.news.rdc1.tx.home.com@c59303a> for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:37:18 -0700 Message-ID: <01da01bf0962$f514f6a0$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> From: "Franchesca Havas" To: Subject: H-COST: Fw: duct tape double/men Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:35:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" Ok, Here is his email and web page. You all can write to him directly. :) Sincerely, F. Havas Dallas, Texas motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide ----- Original Message ----- From: Vincent To: Franchesca Havas Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 11:28 PM Subject: Re: duct tape double/men : I'm working on that this Fri all I have to do is stuff it and mount it on a : stand : after that I'm all done : Ever Yours : My Land : http://home.swbell.net/vincent9/ : : ----- Original Message ----- : From: Franchesca Havas : To: : Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 7:07 PM : Subject: duct tape double/men : : : > Have you done yours yet? : > : > Can you help them? : > : > Love ya! : > Ches : > Dallas, Texas : > motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide : > : > ----- Original Message ----- : > From: Kevin & Mara Riley : > To: Costume List : > Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 1:37 PM : > Subject: H-COST: Duct Tape Double / Men : > : > : > : : > : -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley : > : : > : Has anyone here made a Duct Tape Double for men? I think it's going to : be : > : necessary so that I can get a proper fit for my DH's kit, without : driving : > : him nuts with repeated fittings. Other than the obvious (no foundation : > : garments), what is different from doing this for women? : > : : > : -- Mara : > : : > : : > : _________________________________________________________________ : > : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com : > : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME : > : : > : > : > : _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 22:37:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29033 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:37:45 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA05703; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:51:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA20262 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:51:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA20251 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:51:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA23578 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-58-22.lightspeed.net [209.165.58.22]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA06162 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 20:51:08 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <003301bf0965$f14f0da0$1d7afea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Bodice Fitting challenge Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:00:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Michelle" Elizabethan Costuming for the years 1550-1580, by Janet Winter and Carolyn Savoy ISBN 0-9630220-0-8 Copyright 1987 Other Times Productions >Padded roll, eh? What padded roll. Tell me more, please. I wear a G or H >cup depending on which band size I get. I'm trying to achieve the Tudor >or Elizabethan look but I'm running into the folding boning problem >also. >I either have to lace way too tight and moosh every thing into >immobility or gravity wins the battle in a rather uncomfortable and >unattractive manner. > >-- >Freya It is something in the book above. Look at the section on corsetry. It is a roll that you sew into the inside. It is supposed to give you more support. They call it a 'push up pad' but, I think this would help with the large busted gals who want a smoother line, too. I haven't tried it yet on my sister-in-law but, I am planning on it. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 22:53:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29081 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:53:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA07745; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:07:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA22413 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:07:00 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA22406 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:06:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k589.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.189]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id VAA30853 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:06:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F03E52.63BF@netwiz.net> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:04:34 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: What is this picture? References: <37EF8A2F.6F8D92A9@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi Elizabeth Jones wrote: > > What is this garment? > > http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/images/High.Italian.Renaissance/CJ38.gif > I see it says renaissance, but it looks like an Ottoman (or Persian?) caftan with those long false sleeves. Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 23:02:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29093 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:02:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08721; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:16:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA23874 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:16:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.netwiz.net (Mail.NetWiz.Net [208.136.106.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA23865 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:16:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from agnes (BayArea56k589.NetWiz.Net [208.164.208.189]) by mail.netwiz.net (8.9.2/8.9.1a) with SMTP id VAA32308 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:16:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F04089.7E44@netwiz.net> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:14:01 -0700 From: Susan Fatemi X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Susan Fatemi The Purple Elephant wrote: > > -Poster: The Purple Elephant > > On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, StitchWitch wrote: > > > Now, a question somewhat remotly related to the purpose of this list . . . > > What is the most interesting vintage/antique item of clothing you've found > > at such shops? And what did you pay for it? I'd be interested in seeing what > > folk have found in their various locations, being the thrift store junkie > > that I am. > > A Coach leather bag for $1 at a garage sale. My first Paisly shawl acquisition had been made into an A-line skirt (horrors!) I got for $10. I have a lot more now! Susan -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Mon Sep 27 23:05:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA29097 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:05:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA08937; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:19:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA24133 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:18:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from chmls06.mediaone.net (chmls06.mediaone.net [24.128.1.71]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA24123 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:18:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mediaone.net (janicedals.ne.mediaone.net [24.218.163.141]) by chmls06.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id AAA24274 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:18:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <37F04247.B3111518@mediaone.net> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:21:27 -0400 From: Janice Dallas X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-MOENE (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:recycling favorite References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Janice Dallas I found a pair of gorgeous, expensive men's wing-tip shoes in a thrift shop. The catch? They were a 10 and 1/2 AAA. Guess what, that's my husband's size! He's so hard to find shoes for, and these were $20! -- Janice Dallas JaniceDals@MediaOne.net "Just so, the girl has beauty, virtue, wit..." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 00:21:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29224 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:21:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13686; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:34:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA03460 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:34:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA03454 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:34:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.156] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Vpu1-0007fx-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:34:13 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:31:37 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:recycling favorite In-Reply-To: <37F04247.B3111518@mediaone.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" That Betsy Johnson little gold silk slip dress for $5 in my daughter's size. Her Doc Martin's that lasted for 3 years for $25. The bodice [RenFaire type] that we gave to my best friend's 8 yr. old--for $3. But that's leaving out furnishings of other sorts, books/&c. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 00:27:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29241 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:27:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA13997; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:40:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA04189 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:40:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA04182 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:40:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.142] (sdts11-142.znet.net [207.167.66.142]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id WAA16945 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:40:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <001701bf0865$09312cc0$6d79fea9@gunsafes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:39:45 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: unmatched bodice and skirts Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams > I found this today. The bodice and skirt are unmatched and the >sleeves match the skirt. >http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/images/High.Italian.Renaiss >ance/CJ05.jpg Hard to say, but this could be an apron too. I have seen a number of German Renn. peasant dresses and even an upper class one or two that are unmatched though. Sometimes people do mistake one of the apron styles (one that goes all the way around with a smocked waist) as an overskirt, but there are several that are clearly unmatched that you can even see the apron. Breugel has some in various paintings and there is a series of tapestries of the seasons that show some clearly. Unmatched skirts/bodices tends to be a lower class thing in the earlier period 16th c Germany at least... Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 00:44:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29274 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 00:44:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA15035; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:58:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA06139 for h-costume-outgoing; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:58:42 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA06130 for ; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 23:58:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.156] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Vpob-00075f-00; Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:28:37 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 22:05:46 -0700 To: (Recipient list suppressed) From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: H-COST: Book on textiles and weaving -- More useful if you read French... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" ISBN: 227105592X Dewey Decimal No.: 940 2 1 Lib. of Congress Call No.: NK8808.C37 1999 Cardon, Dominique. La Draperie au Moyen Age : essor d'une grande industrie europeenne / Dominique Cardon. Paris : CNRS Editons, c1999. 661 p. : ill. (some col.), maps ; 24 cm. 504 Includes bibliographical references (p. 613-[640]) and indexes. 1. Textile fabrics, Medieval--Europe. 2. Textile fabrics, Medieval, in art. 3. Textile industry--Europe--History-- To 1500. 4. Weaving--Europe--History--To 1500. 5. Weaving in art. French Cat. info: Jean Touzot Libraire Editeur b TOUZ n JTL00026339 c 350 FRF _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 03:12:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA25779 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 03:12:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22473; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 02:26:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA19482 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 02:25:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from typhoon.mail.pipex.net (typhoon.mail.pipex.net [158.43.128.27]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA19477 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 02:25:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 11614 invoked from network); 28 Sep 1999 08:25:34 -0000 Received: from userar52.uk.uudial.com (HELO ) (62.188.136.211) by smtp.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 28 Sep 1999 08:25:34 -0000 Message-ID: <37F0DBDD.1B67@dial.pipex.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:16:45 -0700 From: Viv Watkins X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win95; I; 16bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Best thrift shop buy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Viv Watkins My most dramatic buy was a 1950's black silk chiffon evening dress. Fitted bodice cut straight across just above the bust with double ribbon straps. The skirt was very full with about six layers of petticoats, ending with two top layers of the chiffon. Across the front, from the bodice down across the skirt, was a spray of appliqued dark red velvet roses. It cost 3 pounds. I fit like a dream but I never went anywhere grand enough to wear it and I ended up donating it to our local Community Theatre Wardrobe. My most wearable find was a wool challis Geiger skirt (new about 130 pounds) for 5 pounds, I wore it to bits and it looked great right to the end! The other thing I look out for is linen bed sheets - great for making medieval shifts - good quality and pre-softened! Best wishes. Viv. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 04:11:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA25905 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 04:11:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA24243; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 03:25:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA23693 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 03:25:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net (mta3-gui.server.ntli.net [194.168.54.144]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23468 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 03:25:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: from LOCALNAME ([194.168.63.159]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail v4.01.01.02 201-229-111-106) with SMTP id <19990928092016.UVLQ1306.mta3-svc@LOCALNAME> for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:20:16 +0100 Message-ID: <37F0ECE4.7681@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:29:24 -0700 From: Dawn Organization: ages of elegance (http://www.ageofelegance.dabsol.co.uk) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-VN712-000 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling References: <938472318.6591.257@excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dawn > > Now, a question somewhat remotly related to the purpose of this list . . . > What is the most interesting vintage/antique item of clothing you've found > at such shops? And what did you pay for it? I'd be interested in seeing what > folk have found in their various locations, being the thrift store junkie > that I am. > >An organza regency shawl I bought for a £15 at brighton station carboot sale and a pair of edwardian shoes for £5 they threw in the silk braid and fringing. Last good buy whilst looking for cowby leather gear for a pro childrens play a versace leather suit from his cowgirl collection for £5 the kids didn't get their hands on it though as exactly 24 hours after I bought it he was shot. Dawn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 07:51:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26160 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:51:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA05373; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:04:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07026 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:04:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07020 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:04:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990928130420.CBZG13734.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 06:04:20 -0700 Message-ID: <37F0BCF1.62729ED4@home.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:04:49 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: corsets questions References: <3.0.32.19990926160808.0068fd9c@cell2000.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kat & Kent TriciaaKuhn wrote: > > hello im new to this stuff the E mail posting and corsetry and i would > apreciate any help or advice i could get. also i would like to ask if > anyone out there has a corset pattern for larger sizes than 26 i have > looked but cant find anything What period corset are you looking for? If Elizabethan, have you tried the corset pattern generator? Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 07:57:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA26188 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:57:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA06140; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:11:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA07929 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:11:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp4.erols.com (smtp4.erols.com [207.172.3.237]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA07921 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 07:11:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-229-100.s608.tnt5.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.229.100]) by smtp4.erols.com (8.8.8/smtp-v1) with SMTP id JAA15228 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:11:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001001bf09b4$663250c0$64e57ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: farthingales Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:21:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF0992.DE467D60" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF0992.DE467D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Is there a formula for determining the width of a Tudor or Elizabethan = farthingale? I'm heavy (size 16-18) but very short (5ft). The one in = Janet Arnold is the right length for me, but when made up it looks very = narrow. Any suggestions? Andrea ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF0992.DE467D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Is there a formula for determining the width of a = Tudor or=20 Elizabethan farthingale?  I'm heavy (size 16-18) but very short=20 (5ft).  The one in Janet Arnold is the right length for me, but = when made=20 up it looks very narrow.  Any suggestions?
Andrea
------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BF0992.DE467D60-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 09:04:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26259 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:04:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA12902; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:16:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA18165 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:16:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18142 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:16:02 -0600 (MDT) From: DRGurley@aol.com Received: from DRGurley@aol.com by imo14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6YHAa18968 (3931); Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:15:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:15:16 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Need instructions/suggestions for making... To: h-costume@indra.com, purinaint@harmonsmith.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 10 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: DRGurley@aol.com Can you help? _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 09:26:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26291 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:26:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA16431; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:39:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA22898 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:39:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au [203.10.110.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA22884 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:38:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from netspace.net.au.netspace.net.au (dialup-t1-244.Melbourne.netspace.net.au [210.15.250.244]) by whirlwind.netspace.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.1/NS) with ESMTP id AAA12859 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 00:38:52 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199909281438.AAA12859@whirlwind.netspace.net.au> From: "Christopher Ballis" To: Subject: H-COST: CC20 Progress report 1 txt version Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 17:27:31 +1000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Christopher Ballis" COSTUME-CON 20 PROGRESS REPORT 1 IS IN THE MAIL! What follows is a text version of the contents of Costume-Con 20 Progress Report #1, September, 1999. If you would like a print copy, contact your local agent or the Australian Costumers' Guild at one of the addresses at the bottom of this file. For more information anout the Australian Costumers' Guild, hit our web site, www.vicnet.net.au/~costume/ COSTUME-CON 20 PROGRESS REPORT, September, 1999 Friday 15-Monday 18 February, 2002 Melbourne Convention Centre, Melbourne, Australia FROM THE CHAIRMAN Dear fellow costumers, We in Australia are excited to have a Costume-Con on our shores and invite you to join us for the twentieth anniversary of Costume-Con and the tenth anniversary of the Australian Costumers' Guild. The event we plan is vibrant, spectacular and, most of all, useful - a real opportunity to share knowledge, ideas and techniques. At Costume-Con 20, you will find everything you expect of a Costume-Con including historical and Fantasy/SF costume parades (masquerades), Future Fashion Folio, and lots more displays, exhibits, information sessions and contests. Oh, and we're gonna have some fun, too. We invite you to join us at Costume-Con 20 for a real Australian twist. Christopher Ballis, chairman TEN GOOD REASONS TO VISIT US 1. Benalla Costume Museum 2. Melbourne has been voted the World's Most Livable City 3. Issey Miyaki's red fibreglass bustier 4. Melbourne International Fashion Week coincides with CC20 5. Outlaw Ned Kelly's armour 6. Sean Connery's Highlander costume 7. Sovereign Hill, a self-contained 1850s mining town 8. The chance to meet with an entire continent of costumers 9. Three zoos 10. People travelling to Melbourne may pick up enough frequent flier miles to pay for plenty of other conventions TRAVELING...? We recommend United Airlines, official carriers for Costume-Con 20 Costume-Con 20 is supported by The Office of the Premier and Minister for the Arts and The Office of the Lord Mayor SPECIAL THANKS We bow to, scrape to, and kiss the toes of Denise Kambouris of the Melbourne Convention & Marketing Bureau . MARDI GRAS Just a couple of weeks after Costume-Con 20, the city of Sydney will stage its annual Mardi Gras, one of the world's largest costumed street parades. Mardi Gras offers a great opportunity to participate in the parade or gain experience in the huge workshop specially created for the event. RUNNING COSTUME-CON 20 (YES, THE V-WORD) If you would like to take part in the running of Costume-Con, let us know. Whether you have particular experience or would like to gain some, we'd love to have you on board. Costume-Con 20's program includes all the special features you expect of a Costume-Con including separate Historical and Fantasy/SF costume parades (masquerades), the Future Fashion Folio design contest, and plenty of other design and display opportunities. Five concurrent streams of programming are planned combining lectures and discussions, hands-on workshops and demonstrations, and a few surprises over the weekend (don't ask now, they're surprises, damnit!). Do you want to take part? Now is the time to let us know. HEAD OF PROGRAMMING Costume-Con 20 programming will encompass workshops, demonstrations, discussion panels and speaker forums. If you have any suggestions for program highlights or would like to take part in programming, contact our director of programming, Wendy Purcell. WHO THE HELL IS RUNNING THIS THING? Chairman, Christopher Ballis Treasurer, David Scanlon Membership listing, Kathrine Ashton Programming, Wendy Purcell USAgent, Cat Devereaux Canadian Agent, Katherine Jepson Nth American Travel Assistant, Kate McClure Government Liaison, Denise Kambouris Michael F. Kyne Gail Adams Lisa Earles BOARD OF DIRECTORS, ACG Kathrine Ashton, membership services Christopher Ballis, president Benjamin Carmichael, communications David Scanlon, treasurer and ambassador at large Charlie Sweeney, assistant to the board CONTACT US Australian Costumers' Guild, PO Box 322, Bentleight, 3204 Australia Tel. (03)9457 4061 +3 9457 4061 stilskin@netspace.net.au www.vicnet.net.au/~costume/ VENUE The Melbourne Convention Centre is in Spencer Street , Melbourne, overlooking the Yarra River just a hop, skip and a stumble from the Arts Precinct, the Crown Casino known for its cheap eats places, and the Melbourne Maritime Museum. The Centra Hotel is attached to the convention centre and there are several other hotels within five minutes walk. The convention centre boasts dozens of program rooms, two theatrettes, and lounge areas. The You-Yangs Room on the second level covers over 3,000 square metres, enabling us to stage the entire convention on a single floor. CRASH SITES Need somewhere to stay before and after the convention? Or do you live in Melbourne and have a piece of spare carpet, a spare bed or space in the shed? Get yourself on our crash site registry now. The Australian Costumers' Guild will keep a list of crash site wanters and havers that will be made available closer to Costume-Con 20. WELCOME! PEOPLE WHO HAVE JOINED RECENTLY Morgana Bailey (Aus) Eileen Capes (Can) Stephanie Carrigg (USA) Ann Catelli (USA) Byron Connell (USA) Tina Connell (USA) Anne Dale (Can) Janice Dallas (USA) Cat Devereaux (USA) Kathryn Draves (USA) Edwin Dyas (Aus) Elna Estcourt (Aus) Dina Flockhert (USA) Suzanne Garcia (USA) Denice Grardeau (USA) Steward Hartman (USA) Janet Hunt (Aus) Julia Hyll (USA) Richard Hyll (USA) Elizabeth Jepson (Can) Kathrine Jepson (Can) Kevin Jepson (Can) Heather Johnson (Aus) Hon. Jeff Kennett, MLA (Aus) Alison Kondo (USA) Jeff Kondo (USA) Michael F. Kyne (Aus) Bridget M. Landry (US) Rebecca Lansbury (Aus) Catherine Leeson (Can) Adrienne Losin (Aus) Elaine Mani (USA) Carl Mami (USA) Kate McClure (USA) Jess Miller (USA) Cheryl Mitting (Aus) Pierre Pettinger (USA) Sandy Pettinger (USA) Pat Ritter (USA) James A Roach, Jr. (USA) Carol Salemi (USA) Barb Schofield (Can) Kerith Siddall (Aus) Fabian Stretton (Aus) Susan LynnToker (USA) Jacqueline M. Ward (Can) Kenneth Warren (USA) Victoria Warren (USA) Annette Wilson (Aus) IF YOU HAVE PAID A DEPOSIT... If you have paid a deposit on your membership or if you bought pre-supporting or supporting membership, now is the time to upgrade. The sooner your membership is paid, the cheaper it is! OTHER COSTUME-CONS Costume-Con 18 - Connecticut, USA Costume-Con 19 - Calgary, Canada OUR THANKS TO... Lincraft, Australia's leading fabric and craft suppliers MEMBERSHIP APPLICATION Please accept my membership for Costume-Con 20 Name: ............................................................................ ........... Address: ............................................................................ ........ ............................................................................ ..................... ............................................................................ Telephone (optional): ................................................ E-mail (optional): ..................................................... I agree that (please tick) [ ] I understand that I will receive a gold metal kangaroo stick-pin [ ] I do not wish to receive a gold metal kangaroo stick pin but understand that I have no choice and one will be sent to me anyway [ ] I am a resident of Canada and enclose $C100 [ ] I am a USA resident and enclose $US60 [ ] I am an Australian resident and enclose $A100 [ ] I enclose a deposit of ............(please keep them to round numbers, no less than $30) Prices valid until December 31, 2000 If your currency is not represented, contact us and we'll see that it is. Do not send cash in the post. Send your form and payment to: Australian Costumers' Guild PO Box 322, Bentleigh, 3204 Australia Katherine Jepson 19 Taraglen Court NE Calgary, Alberta, Canada T3J 2M6 Cat Devereaux 6128 Cahuenga Blvd., #102 North Hollywood, CA 91606 USA Costume-Con is a service mark (sm) controlled by Karen Dick and Kelly Turner. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 09:37:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26333 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:37:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA18180; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:50:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA25505 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:50:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp7.atl.mindspring.net (smtp7.atl.mindspring.net [207.69.128.51]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25491 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:50:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from oemcomputer (user-33qsdj9.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.54.105]) by smtp7.atl.mindspring.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA18810 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:50:32 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <027a01bf09c0$f1fb1cc0$6936aec7@oemcomputer> From: "Chris and Trish Makowski" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Russian persona Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:51:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Chris and Trish Makowski" -----Original Message----- From: ches@io.com To: Multiple recipients of list H-COSTUME Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 09:19 Subject: H-COST: Russian persona > >-Poster: ches@io.com > >What would a Muscovite man from Moscow Russia in 1599 be wearing? > >Sincerely, >F. Havas >ches@io.com Francesca, look me up at Steppes business meeting and I can show you exactly Anya _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 09:51:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26498 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:51:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20492; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:04:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29455 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:04:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29437 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:04:41 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EML3XJ44; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:02:49 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:55:28 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: farthingales Message-ID: <19990928.095654.-569127.1.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 26-27,36-37 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com I suppose that to be really rabid about it you need to decide which style of dress you are making. Different countries/styles had different proportions for their farthingales. For example, the Spanish farthingale was always relatively narrow (in period) and stayed conical well into the 17th century long after most other fashions had gone to the French/wheel farthingale. If you are making an early Elizabethan or a Spanish gown then the proportions of the farthingale will be relatively narrow. I believe that Ms. Arnold used Alcega as her source for the farthingale pattern in her book, and being Spanish the proportions would be on the narrow side. Judging from portraits, the French seem to have preferred a wider farthingale in general and used more fabric in the skirt to give a fuller, softer line than the very severe Spanish cone shape. Of course once you get to the late 80's, they are wearing the very large roll farthingales on their way to the huge wheel farthingales so the proportions of skirt to bodice get very big indeed. The English, who were apparently notorious for borrowing fashions from other places rather than inventing their own, seem to have liked a medium farthingale in Elizabeth's reign, with the bell shape of a slightly larger roll over the farthingale coming into fashion in the 80's just before the wheel farthingale hits big. The Italians don't seem to have gone much for the farthingale, in Vecellio many ladies don't look like they are wearing one, so if they are, it must be quite narrow with lots of skirt on top to soften the look. I'm not as familiar with German styles during Elizabeth's reign, but it seems to my very subjective memory that they also didn't wear large farthingales and used full skirts for a softer line. Perhaps someone on the list with more German expertise can clarify that one. Measurements of period farthingales that I have seen all seem to have bottom circumferences around 100 inches with several of them coming in closer to 90. I am relatively tall and I have made farthingales for myself that are about 115 to 120 around and they seem fine once all the skirts are on them. I made one that is 128 around and it almost seems too big for a really period line. I feel a tad Antebellum in it. Have you made one of the farthingales from Arnold? And have you put the skirts and bumrolls and such over it? You may be surprised at how much more visual size it has with everything in place. Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 09:59:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26521 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:59:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21858; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:12:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01429 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:12:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from edison.cps.k12.il.us ([207.63.248.111]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01417 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:12:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from execpc.com (10.11.11.12) by edison.cps.k12.il.us with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.0); Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:20:25 -0500 Message-ID: <37F0DADF.3946A32B@execpc.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:12:31 -0500 From: Gail Smith Organization: Edison Regional Gifted Center X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Re:cauls References: <199909280123.TAA27249@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Gail Smith I made a French hood with a wide front band (to hide the fact that I had very short, layered hair) To keep it in place, I made a single large pincurl using the longest hair I had which is at the very top of my head. I used a big bobby pin that was sold to hold rollers in peoples' hair. Then I took the curved plastic comb that I hand stitched to the inside of the French hood and slid it under the pincurl. The heavy velvet French hood and satin veil stays in place all day, even in the wind. My hair has since grown out so that I can wear different headgear, but I still use the pincurl and comb arrangement for the French hood. -- Gail Smith gks@execpc.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 10:31:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26556 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:31:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26669; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:44:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA09649 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:44:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09628 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:44:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r9p6.directcon.net [206.170.184.105]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA30194 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:42:45 -0700 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:42:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199909281542.IAA30194@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: corsets questions Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson if >> anyone out there has a corset pattern for larger sizes than 26 i have >> looked but cant find anything > >What period corset are you looking for? If Elizabethan, have you tried >the corset pattern generator? > Yes! I'm a 26-28, or maybe larger, I don't want to think about that possiblility. I made a mockup of Drea's Elizabethan corset yesterday and it was great. The only thing was, I had to take 4" off the area where side seams would normally be. I don't know if this is because the pattern distorts a bit in the larger sizes, or, more likely, because we big people are just "squishier". At any rate, the fit is lovely and flattering. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 10:34:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26560 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 10:34:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA27550; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:48:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA10801 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:48:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10791 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 09:48:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA21507; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:48:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F0E3BE.6E8ED8CC@serv.net> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:50:23 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: cauls References: <19bd0499.2520c2f8@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Anyway, I want to make a cal but I can't for the life of me figure out > how they stay on. Do they have fitted bands around the outside, so they're > sort of like caps? Is there a drawstring to fit one to the head? Do they need > tons of pins? There is evidence in the Museum of London _Textiles and Clothing that many 13th century cauls were attached to a table woven band. How they were attached to the hair, I don't know. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 11:56:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA26646 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:56:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08800; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:08:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA01706 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:07:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.airmail.net (mail.airmail.net [206.66.12.40]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA01690 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:07:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mamabear from [207.13.31.71] by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.405) with smtp for sender: id ; Tue, 28 Sep 99 12:07:22 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <00cc01bf09d3$7c9ee200$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> From: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: corsets questions Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:04:02 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Genevieve de Courtanvaux" More than likely it was due to the fact that those of us that are larger are "squisher". You can take up more than two inches in a larger person. Whereas a smaller person that is really all you can take up because a persons bones, versus the corsets bones, can move only so far. Carol Ross > The only thing was, I had to take 4" off the area where side >seams would normally be. I don't know if this is because the pattern >distorts a bit in the larger sizes, or, more likely, because we big people >are just "squishier". At any rate, the fit is lovely and flattering. > >Margo > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 12:08:49 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26658 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:08:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11122; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:21:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA05186 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:20:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05175 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:20:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA11977 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:20:10 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp208-64.worldonline.nl [195.241.208.64]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA07053 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:20:07 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909281720.TAA07053@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Muscovite Man Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 16:42:39 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Hope wrote: > Here's are some neat portraits of Ivan the Terrible (lived > 1530-1584) > http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/portraits/ivan4.jpg > > and his dad, Ivan the Great (lived 1440 - 1505) > http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/portraits/ivan3.jpg Ivan the T's mother must have had some explaining to do when she got a baby after the father had been dead 25 years. ;-) Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 13:02:41 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26815 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:02:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23086; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:13:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19145 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:12:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19128 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:12:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA21302 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:12:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp227-244.worldonline.nl [195.241.227.244]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA27053 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:12:41 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909281812.UAA27053@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Plaid T-tunics at St Francis of Assisi exhibit Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:53:49 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Cynthia B wrote: > Yesterday, I saw something I've never seen in any of the medieval > illuminations, paintings or frescoes: gentlemen wearing plaid T-tunics. > Even more shocking the tunics (2 matching, 1 in a larger scale) were in a > color combo that the roaring '20s would call "artichoke & coral". > Admittedly, I'm fairly new to anything earlier than about 1802 costuming - > mostly I live & dance in the 19th c., but is this plaid stuff wildly > atypcial? It's not clear who these guys are supposed to be, where they're > supposed to be from. I'm not familiar with any of the hagiography to make a > reasonable guess. > > Photo of fresco on display at the Palace of the Legion of Honor, > SFrancisco - as you enter the PLA, turn right, back of the hall on the left. > Simon Martini (active 1284-1344) "St. Martin being Knighted by Emperor > Julian". This fresco is from the the Chapel of St Martin, lower church in > the Basilica of St Francis, Assisi, Italy. Disappointingly, it's not > reproduced in the tour catalogs or on the postcards. The occurence of plaid or chequered cloth is not so strange in 14th c Northern Italy. Besides for clothing (mainly servants and musicians, some soldiers) it is used for blankets, bed curtains, cushions, wall hangings and window- or doorcurtains. Striped cloth is also used for these items overthere. You can already see these last in Giotto (paintings ca 1300-1310). In other countries striped cloths seem to have been in vogue during some parts of the 13th c: Germany, Spain, Italy (again), Southern England, perhaps the Low Countries, but I have not had a chance to look deeply into this. I will, for the new costume book, though. This type of cloth was fairly cheap. It was woven from wool (or other fibres?) that was already dyed, be it as fleece or as spun thread. Cloth dyed when already woven was much more expensive. That's why you hardly ever see well to do persons wearing multicoloured clothing until the brocade and embroidered garments started. Church princes and higher nobility, however, have always had richly embroidered ceremonial garments, all over the place... Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 13:02:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26819 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:02:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23163; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:13:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19342 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:13:36 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from deimos.worldonline.nl (deimos.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.136]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19308 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:13:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldonline.nl (leda.worldonline.nl [195.241.48.135]) by deimos.worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA22118 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:13:27 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from pc2 (vp227-244.worldonline.nl [195.241.227.244]) by worldonline.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id UAA27103 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:12:43 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199909281812.UAA27103@worldonline.nl> From: "Henk 't Jong" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Maciejowski Bible Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:57:41 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Henk 't Jong" Henk & Pauline 't Jong tScapreel Medieval Advisors Dordrecht, Netherlands Hi, Robin wrote: > Henk, if you haven't found a copy through the usual used market by May, I > will pick one up for you at K'zoo if you like. I've seen copies surface at > the used stalls there every year. I can't guarantee you'll get such a good > price, though! Thanks, Robin, but in the mean time I have found out that our Royal Library has a copy and I am a recent member of this august, but so useful, institution, so it will take me about a day to browse around in it and find out about northern French dress of ca 1250. Yippy! I bought too many books recently, anyway... Henk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 13:35:18 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26922 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:35:17 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28580; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:48:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27529 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:46:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (mta4.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27522 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:46:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net ([206.170.69.133]) by mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FIS007SP9HN70@mta4.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:45:41 +0000 From: Dietmar Subject: H-COST: OT: Sewing Machine Parts To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <37F0AA62.DFDA2471@pacbell.net> Organization: Completely Disorganized MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <0B3E3AA67456D311A9FC0000E889ED9809F514@na-dpw1.dpw.alcoa.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Connie wrote: > There is an antique sewing machine newsgroup which is very friendly and would > help you find manuals, parts, and accessories for your machine -- no matter > what brand you choose. I don't need a machine, but I've got a small problem. I've got a Singer cabinet machine from circa 1960 and it runs well. Unfortunately, one of the hinges on the cabinet lid has broken. Does anyone have suggestions on where to find a replacement hinge? Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 13:41:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26971 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:41:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29792; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:54:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29395 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:54:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from cell2000.net (dominion.cell2000.net [216.200.45.5] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29383 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:54:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from triciaakuhn [206.132.127.75] by cell2000.net (SMTPD32-5.04) id AE67B314023A; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:52:23 PDT Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990928120013.006945e8@cell2000.net> X-Sender: inana@cell2000.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:00:16 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: TriciaaKuhn Subject: Re: H-COST: corsets questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: TriciaaKuhn well im motst inerested in Victorian corsetrie and i have used the duct tabe pattern method for an Elizabethan bodice but what is the corset pattern generator? >What period corset are you looking for? If Elizabethan, have you tried >the corset pattern generator? > >Kat > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 13:45:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26986 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:45:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00542; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:58:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00329 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:58:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00311 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:58:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.200]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:58:16 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: cauls Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:55:19 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37f60ea0.238576158@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <19bd0499.2520c2f8@aol.com> <37F0E3BE.6E8ED8CC@serv.net> In-Reply-To: <37F0E3BE.6E8ED8CC@serv.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id MAA00316 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:50:23 -0700, the following was written in this electric book by Merouda the True of Beaumaris : > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >> Anyway, I want to make a cal but I can't for the life of me figure out >> how they stay on. Do they have fitted bands around the outside, so they're >> sort of like caps? Is there a drawstring to fit one to the head? Do they need >> tons of pins? > >There is evidence in the Museum of London _Textiles and Clothing that many 13th >century cauls were attached to a table woven band. How they were attached to the >hair, I don't know. Probably straight or u-shaped pins, through the dressed, but not yet decorated, hair. (this is a particular subject of study for me) Details are fuzzy. Experimentation to follow when I have time :) Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 13:52:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27007 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:52:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01610; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:05:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02196 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:05:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02175 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:05:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA16408 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:05:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Duct Tape Double / Men In-Reply-To: <00bd01bf094c$40e9eca0$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Yes, I'd appreciate his feedback. Thanks! -- Mara On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Franchesca Havas wrote: > > -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" > > I have a friend that is in the process of doing one for himself. I will ask > him about it and forward him your email if you like. > > Sincerely, > F. Havas > Dallas, Texas > motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kevin & Mara Riley > To: Costume List > Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 1:37 PM > Subject: H-COST: Duct Tape Double / Men > > > : > : -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley > : > : Has anyone here made a Duct Tape Double for men? I think it's going to be > : necessary so that I can get a proper fit for my DH's kit, without driving > : him nuts with repeated fittings. Other than the obvious (no foundation > : garments), what is different from doing this for women? > : > : -- Mara > : > : > : _________________________________________________________________ > : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > : > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 13:55:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27029 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:55:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02187; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:08:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02877 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:08:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02860 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:08:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-253-89.s89.tnt8.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.253.89]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA27498 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:08:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000c01bf09e6$3d19eae0$59fd7ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <19990928.095654.-569127.1.seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: farthingales Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:18:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > I suppose that to be really rabid about it you need to decide which style > of dress you are making. Different countries/styles had different > proportions for their farthingales I'm talking about High Tudor, 1535ish Anne Boylen, Jane Seymour type dress. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 14:34:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27183 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:34:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08863; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:45:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA11978 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:45:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11963 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:45:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-243.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.243]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA26867 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:45:03 -0700 Message-ID: <003e01bf09ea$5aa62b60$f3aba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Need instructions/suggestions for making... Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:47:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Broneske" Help with what!? -----Original Message----- From: DRGurley@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com ; purinaint@harmonsmith.com Date: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 7:17 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Need instructions/suggestions for making... > >-Poster: DRGurley@aol.com > > Can you help? > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 15:47:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27389 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:47:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19443; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:00:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00887 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:00:07 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00869 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:00:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990928210002.IAGO13734.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:00:02 -0700 Message-ID: <37F12C69.EE8F354D@home.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:00:26 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: farthingales References: <19990928.095654.-569127.1.seamstrix@juno.com> <000c01bf09e6$3d19eae0$59fd7ad1@pavilion> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kat & Kent Andrea Gideon wrote: > > I'm talking about High Tudor, 1535ish Anne Boylen, Jane Seymour type > dress. What I did was take the skirt pattern from the MM Early Tudor pattern that I was using and make it out of my fabric and then ran channels on it. This way the farthingale exactly fit the skirt which, given that the skirt is not as gathered as later dresses is a plus. Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 16:12:00 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27443 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:12:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22111; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:25:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA04845 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:15:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from news.rdc1.tn.home.com (ioracle@ha2.rdc1.tn.home.com [24.2.7.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04835 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:15:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from home.com ([24.1.35.138]) by news.rdc1.tn.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990928211513.IFKG13734.news.rdc1.tn.home.com@home.com> for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 14:15:13 -0700 Message-ID: <37F12FF8.1E45A1DD@home.com> Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:15:36 -0500 From: Kat & Kent X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: corsets questions References: <3.0.32.19990928120013.006945e8@cell2000.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kat & Kent TriciaaKuhn wrote: > > well im motst inerested in Victorian corsetrie and i have used the > duct tabe pattern method for an Elizabethan bodice but what is the > corset pattern generator? http://www.dnaco.net/~aleed/corsets/custompat/index.html This is part of a very, very, very nice Elizabethan costume site, so if you're interested in such... hit the 'home' key and have fun exploring!! Kat _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 16:32:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA27454 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:32:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA25410; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:45:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA10989 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:45:40 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10934 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:45:28 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EMMSUAWG; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:42:59 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:35:35 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: farthingales Message-ID: <19990928.163615.-633591.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 7-10,12-28 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com The early farthingales (to those of us who specialize in the clothes of Great Harry's Daughter) were relatively narrow and very conical. They weren't wearing bumrolls at this time as far as I can tell from silhouette. Once again, don't decide that the farthingale is too narrow until you have tried it with a few layers of skirt draped around it. Of course the Tudor farthingales called for a relatively fitted skirt with most of the gathering at the center back leaving the front nice and smooth. Karen On Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:18:24 -0400 "Andrea Gideon" writes: > > -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > > > > I suppose that to be really rabid about it you need to decide > which style > > of dress you are making. Different countries/styles had different > > proportions for their farthingales > > I'm talking about High Tudor, 1535ish Anne Boylen, Jane Seymour type > dress. > Andrea > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 17:52:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27576 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:52:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05337; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:05:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29714 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:05:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail3.sirius.com (mail3.sirius.com [205.134.253.133]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29641 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:05:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by mail3.sirius.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA75346; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by mail3.sirius.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA06566 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:03:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00542; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:58:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00329 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:58:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.austin.rr.com (sm1.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.54]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00311 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:58:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.200]) by mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:58:16 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: cauls Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:55:19 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37f60ea0.238576158@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <19bd0499.2520c2f8@aol.com> <37F0E3BE.6E8ED8CC@serv.net> In-Reply-To: <37F0E3BE.6E8ED8CC@serv.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id MAA00316 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Tue, 28 Sep 1999 08:50:23 -0700, the following was written in this electric book by Merouda the True of Beaumaris : > >-Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > >> Anyway, I want to make a cal but I can't for the life of me figure out >> how they stay on. Do they have fitted bands around the outside, so they're >> sort of like caps? Is there a drawstring to fit one to the head? Do they need >> tons of pins? > >There is evidence in the Museum of London _Textiles and Clothing that many 13th >century cauls were attached to a table woven band. How they were attached to the >hair, I don't know. Probably straight or u-shaped pins, through the dressed, but not yet decorated, hair. (this is a particular subject of study for me) Details are fuzzy. Experimentation to follow when I have time :) Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 18:21:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27614 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:21:40 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09124; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:34:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA05760 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:34:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from exchange.acer.edu.au (exchange.acer.edu.au [203.2.133.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA05741 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:34:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by exchange.acer.edu.au with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:29:14 +1000 Message-ID: From: Harvey Georgia To: "'H-costume'" Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:recycling favorite Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:29:08 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id RAA05748 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Harvey Georgia The pair of cherry red Dr Martens (10 hole) that I found in a UK op shop for 5. Three years on, and they're going strong. A John Cavill (reasonably high-end Australian designer) jacket for A$12. An F cup bra for A$5 (they're hard enough to find new!!) Knee high lace up fully lined leather boots at a market for A$10. My parents are now in the habit of asking me "is anything you're wearing *new* new?". Georgia Boot-hound and second-hand queen! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 18:24:03 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27618 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:24:02 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09480; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06393 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06386 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.158] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11W6oC-0001Ud-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:37:21 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924062555.03dcdba0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:26:34 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: counter argument:on NOT going into business In-Reply-To: <000401bf06a6$b6c53ae0$6b037a86@cbarnes.phoenix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Some examples: costumed docent >at a Calif State Historical Park, performing member of a historical dance >troupe. Or working as a paid employee of Ren. Faire? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 18:24:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27622 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:24:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09493; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06407 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06397 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.158] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11W6oE-0001Ud-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:37:22 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924063244.03dc6d50@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:45:09 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Bodice Fitting challenge In-Reply-To: <199909260243.TAA06269@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >She would like something that holds them up somewhat, keeping them held in >place for comfort, without pushing them up to her chin. I'm not sure where >to start patterning something like this. Can anyone offer advice? Fit the bottom of the bodice to her ribs, so she has a waist, and a difference between it and the top of the bodice. Then use the gnarliest structural-weight bones you have, but don't expect to cantilever all that soft tissue straight out from the ribs. Shoulder straps will help. Generate a nice curve from the ribs to the widest part. And be sure to make the bodice long enough in the front. Don't let her sag all the way down inside the bodice nor spill out the top. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 18:24:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27625 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:24:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09447; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06375 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06359 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.158] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11W6o8-0001Ud-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:37:16 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924060816.00bd2ec0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:20:46 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Rolled pleats...?? In-Reply-To: References: <37E98CD7.B9372010@home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >If you look at paintings by Lucas Cranach, the skirts on the womens' gowns >look like rolled pleats. I don't know for a fact that they are, but >rolled pleats produce an effect like these skirts--long, tubular pleats, >which hang straight from the waist to the hem. I usually make my pleats 1 >inch wide at the top. > >I'll be putting a web page up with diagrams of different kinds of pleats >soon. Hopefully pictures will help. When I look at the Cranach paintings, I see these cool pleats which disappear when the ladies aren't standing still. All trace of the pleat vanishes when the skirt spreads out over anything. How can they both be stitched all the way down and show no trace of such stitching when the skirt is spread out flat? BTW, I have a long skirted vest from someplace in the Balkans (Roumania?) which has the skirt made from trapezoid-shaped pieces, one per pleat. It's unlined, and all the insides show - including the raw edges. (It's very coarse and heavy wool, so the edges only frayed so far, then felted in place.) The pleats hang just like those on the stationary women in the Cranach paintings. From the outside these pleats are a little asymmetric, as they are just flat pleated onto the body of the vest. It's the thickness of the wool (blanket weight) which gives them their nice shape. (It's my 11-year-old's size, but it still weighs a ton.) I used this vest as a model for a German Ren. skirt I did, stiffening the tops of each trapezoid before cartridge pleating, one trapezoid per pleat, and it stayed pleated, moved well, etc. It too weighed a ton. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 18:24:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27630 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:24:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09472; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06387 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06369 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.158] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11W6oA-0001Ud-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:37:19 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924062145.03d071a0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:22:23 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: French womans 1520's clothing In-Reply-To: <004e01bf0606$b922cfa0$0200a8c0@mamabear.stormypetrel.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I would like to make an dress to match the same time period as my husbands >with the exception that I want to do my persona's country. I have looked >some and have come up pretty empty on artwork for women's French clothing in >the 1520's. So if someone out there can help me find some artwork that would >be appropriate I would appreciate it. Thank you, Look at tapestries of the period. They have lots of dresses from right about there/then. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 18:24:54 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27634 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:24:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA09444; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA06356 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA06347 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:37:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.158] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11W6o6-0001Ud-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 16:37:14 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924054935.03d55e70@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 05:54:57 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: German costuming books In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >There is a series of books in the library here called 'Die Mode' I think. >The first one is on the middle ages and then one for each century afterwards. >My German is pretty minimal so I don't read the text but they have lots of >pictures, mainly of course German ones, but a reasonable no. from elsewhere >which is what I look at it for. My German is not even up to translating books from this series, but I absolutely treasure my 4 volumes. Mine cover the late 1700's thru the early 1900's. They have pictures I have never seen elsewhere, including the original for the wrong-looking short sleeved white ruffly Victorian dress Scarlet O'Hara wears in the older 'Gone With the Wind' film. The one in the film looks just like the original, I'm sorry to have to say. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 18:54:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA27670 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:54:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAB14088; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:07:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA12099 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:06:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12084 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:06:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p30.directcon.net [206.170.184.79]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA22018 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:05:35 -0700 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:05:35 -0700 Message-Id: <199909290005.RAA22018@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Rolled pleats...?? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margo Anderson > >BTW, I have a long skirted vest from someplace in the Balkans (Roumania?) >which has the skirt made from trapezoid-shaped pieces, one per pleat. It's >unlined, and all the insides show - including the raw edges. (It's very >coarse and heavy wool, so the edges only frayed so far, then felted in >place.) The pleats hang just like those on the stationary women in the >Cranach paintings. Oooh! Does this remind anyone else of those stitched welts on the Shinrone gown? Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 19:12:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27712 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:12:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16872; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:26:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA15219 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:26:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu03.email.msn.com [207.46.181.19]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA15205 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:26:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.207 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:25:39 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: cauls Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 21:49:11 -0400 Message-ID: <000101bf0a12$87882980$cf0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <19990927.094211.-550295.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Missed Karen's explanation, but I'll barge in. A hair ribbon (called a snood until at least the Regency period) is threaded through the outer edge of the netting, and this is tied snug to the head, sometimes by wrapping it around the head and hair 2 or 3 times. Roman women used to *knot * and curl their hair, according to Strutt, so slickness was probably not a big deal. I get the idea the mesh was used to hold jewels on the hair, not so much as a bag to structurally support the weight of the hair. The knots and the ribbon wound round 2 or 3 times provided the structural support. In any event, the Romans used pins and probably sticks, an either of these, particularly placed across each other, would help hold it on too, as well as hold the knots of hair in place. Instructions for netting hairnets in the 1838 Workwoman's Guide talk about threading a ribbon through the outer edge of the netted hairnet as the finishing step. I think the crocheted snood may be a 20th century thing, maybe even 1970's, but that's just a guess on my part. Hope > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of seamstrix@juno.com > Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 10:39 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: cauls > > > > -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com > > As I construct them, cauls are just gathered onto a regular band. The > trick is to make them snug to your head (not tight, not > loose, just snug) > and then use one comb sewn into the center front. When you > wear it, the > comb will sit in front of the highest part of your skull, > which on me is > a bit more than halfway back. Remember that the caul is worn > on the back > of the head so the band will sit behind the ears. I know that > there are > some ladies who have very slick hair, I don't know what to > tell you. But > I have waist length, very thick hair and even if I just stuff > it up into > the caul without making a bun or anything, a well fitted caul with one > comb holds everything just fine thru vigorous walking and Italian Ren > dancing. And since the surface area ia quite small, they are great for > going all out in decoration. I usually make a caul to match > each set of > sleeves/foreparts. > > Karen > > On Mon, 27 Sep 1999 08:54:16 EDT Gaelscot@aol.com writes: > > > > -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com > > > > > > > > Karen's posts on the difference between snoods and cauls > reminded me > > of a > > question I have never seen answered. Maybe I just haven't looked in > > the right > > place. Anyway, I want to make a cal but I can't for the life of me > > figure out > > how they stay on. Do they have fitted bands around the outside, so > > they're > > sort of like caps? Is there a drawstring to fit one to the head? Do > > they need > > tons of pins? > > > > Gail Finke > > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 19:21:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27738 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:21:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18027; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:35:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA16632 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:34:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from hevanet.com (root@hevanet.com [198.5.254.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16622 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:34:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from wanda (st-ppp16.hevanet.com [198.5.254.190]) by hevanet.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA06958 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:34:46 -0700 (PDT) From: "Wanda Pease" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: New Treadle machines! Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:34:20 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-Reply-To: <37EE2E8B.35B50741@mediaone.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Wanda Pease" While I was stationed in Frankfurt, Germany, I noticed that the Post and Base exchanges carried Pfaff hand crank machines (new). These could be converted to treadle if the person wanted. A friend of my husband's came through and bought 5 of them for his village in Nigeria (he was a real African American, having been born in Africa and emigrated to the States, rather than simply an American of largely African ancestry). They were so well received and sturdy that he bought 5 more when he came through again a year later. At that time they were $99 packed in a nicely curved topped wooden box that I kept eyeing because it would have made such a nice reliquary! Regina Romsey _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 19:32:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27765 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:32:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19103; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:46:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18416 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:45:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.sirius.com (mail1.sirius.com [205.134.253.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18394 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:45:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by mail1.sirius.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA51308; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:45:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA68748 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 02:50:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA28580; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:48:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27529 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:46:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (mta4.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.142]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27522 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:46:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pacbell.net ([206.170.69.133]) by mta4.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with ESMTP id <0FIS007SP9HN70@mta4.snfc21.pbi.net> for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:45:41 +0000 From: Dietmar Subject: H-COST: OT: Sewing Machine Parts To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <37F0AA62.DFDA2471@pacbell.net> Organization: Completely Disorganized MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04C-PBI-NC404 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit References: <0B3E3AA67456D311A9FC0000E889ED9809F514@na-dpw1.dpw.alcoa.com> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Dietmar -Poster: Dietmar Greetings, Connie wrote: > There is an antique sewing machine newsgroup which is very friendly and would > help you find manuals, parts, and accessories for your machine -- no matter > what brand you choose. I don't need a machine, but I've got a small problem. I've got a Singer cabinet machine from circa 1960 and it runs well. Unfortunately, one of the hinges on the cabinet lid has broken. Does anyone have suggestions on where to find a replacement hinge? Regards, Dietmar "Victory or Defeat rests in God's hands; over Honor, we ourselves are Lord and Master." _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 19:32:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27769 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:32:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19096; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:46:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18440 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:45:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.sirius.com (mail1.sirius.com [205.134.253.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18425 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:45:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by mail1.sirius.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA51335; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:45:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA78410 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 03:10:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02187; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:08:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02877 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:08:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp3.erols.com (smtp3.erols.com [207.172.3.236]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02860 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:08:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: from pavilion (209-122-253-89.s89.tnt8.lnh.md.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.253.89]) by smtp3.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA27498 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:08:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000c01bf09e6$3d19eae0$59fd7ad1@pavilion> From: "Andrea Gideon" To: References: <19990928.095654.-569127.1.seamstrix@juno.com> Subject: Re: H-COST: farthingales Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:18:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" -Poster: "Andrea Gideon" > I suppose that to be really rabid about it you need to decide which style > of dress you are making. Different countries/styles had different > proportions for their farthingales I'm talking about High Tudor, 1535ish Anne Boylen, Jane Seymour type dress. Andrea _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 19:32:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27773 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:32:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19285; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:46:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18441 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:45:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.sirius.com (mail1.sirius.com [205.134.253.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18420 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:45:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by mail1.sirius.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA51354; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:45:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA94635 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 03:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08863; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:45:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA11978 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:45:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sm0101.promedia.net (IDENT:root@sm0101.promedia.net [209.160.170.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA11963 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:45:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from j9g8x8 (ppp-209-160-171-243.01.promedia.net [209.160.171.243]) by sm0101.promedia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA26867 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:45:03 -0700 Message-ID: <003e01bf09ea$5aa62b60$f3aba0d1@j9g8x8> From: "Broneske" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: Need instructions/suggestions for making... Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:47:52 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Broneske" -Poster: "Broneske" Help with what!? -----Original Message----- From: DRGurley@aol.com To: h-costume@indra.com ; purinaint@harmonsmith.com Date: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 7:17 AM Subject: Re: H-COST: Need instructions/suggestions for making... > >-Poster: DRGurley@aol.com > > Can you help? > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 19:32:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27777 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:32:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19118; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:46:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18434 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:45:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.sirius.com (mail1.sirius.com [205.134.253.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18397 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:45:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by mail1.sirius.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA51317; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:45:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA72245 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 02:56:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29792; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:54:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA29395 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:54:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from cell2000.net (dominion.cell2000.net [216.200.45.5] (may be forged)) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA29383 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:54:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from triciaakuhn [206.132.127.75] by cell2000.net (SMTPD32-5.04) id AE67B314023A; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 11:52:23 PDT Message-Id: <3.0.32.19990928120013.006945e8@cell2000.net> X-Sender: inana@cell2000.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 12:00:16 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: TriciaaKuhn Subject: Re: H-COST: corsets questions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: TriciaaKuhn -Poster: TriciaaKuhn well im motst inerested in Victorian corsetrie and i have used the duct tabe pattern method for an Elizabethan bodice but what is the corset pattern generator? >What period corset are you looking for? If Elizabethan, have you tried >the corset pattern generator? > >Kat > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 19:33:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA27781 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:33:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA19295; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:46:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA18447 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:46:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mail1.sirius.com (mail1.sirius.com [205.134.253.131]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18432 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:45:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by mail1.sirius.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id RAA51331; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:45:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by mail1.sirius.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id DAA77242 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 03:07:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01610; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:05:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA02196 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:05:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02175 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 13:05:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA16408 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 15:05:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Duct Tape Double / Men In-Reply-To: <00bd01bf094c$40e9eca0$ac350418@mckiny1.tx.home.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Yes, I'd appreciate his feedback. Thanks! -- Mara On Mon, 27 Sep 1999, Franchesca Havas wrote: > > -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" > > I have a friend that is in the process of doing one for himself. I will ask > him about it and forward him your email if you like. > > Sincerely, > F. Havas > Dallas, Texas > motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Kevin & Mara Riley > To: Costume List > Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 1:37 PM > Subject: H-COST: Duct Tape Double / Men > > > : > : -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley > : > : Has anyone here made a Duct Tape Double for men? I think it's going to be > : necessary so that I can get a proper fit for my DH's kit, without driving > : him nuts with repeated fittings. Other than the obvious (no foundation > : garments), what is different from doing this for women? > : > : -- Mara > : > : > : _________________________________________________________________ > : To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > : with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > : > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 20:06:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27796 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:06:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA22912; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:18:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA23554 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:18:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23545 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:18:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.81] (sdts10-81.znet.net [207.167.66.81]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id SAA17502 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:18:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990924060816.00bd2ec0@pop.slip.net> References: <37E98CD7.B9372010@home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 17:46:53 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: Rolled pleats...?? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >When I look at the Cranach paintings, I see these cool pleats which >disappear when the ladies aren't standing still. All trace of the pleat >vanishes when the skirt spreads out over anything. How can they both be >stitched all the way down and show no trace of such stitching when the >skirt is spread out flat? Some do and some don't, but as I've said several times now, organ pipe pleats do not have to be sewn all the way down to the hem. Only a 4-6" seam is needed at the waist to do the job. The tapes only need to go down to about the hip, so they can still spread quite a bit. >I used this vest as a model for a German Ren. skirt I did, stiffening the >tops of each trapezoid before cartridge pleating, one trapezoid per pleat, >and it stayed pleated, moved well, etc. It too weighed a ton. > > >Kayta Technically each organ pipe pleat is a long narrow trapezoid. Are you sure we aren't talking about the same thing? Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 20:22:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27805 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:22:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25144; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:36:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25933 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:36:26 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25919 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 19:36:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.187 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:35:55 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: H-COST: RE: Italian Caftans Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:53:54 -0400 Message-ID: <000401bf0a1c$57a11600$cf0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <37F03E52.63BF@netwiz.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Jacqueline Herald in *Dress in Renaissance Italy 1450-1550* describes the intense craze in Italy during the Renaissance for Ottoman caftans. They Italian kings and nobles adored the exoticism and comfort of the garments. Caftans were a preferred gift from their Turkish trading partners, and there was an intense trade. Parties were held in the courts where the caftans were the only permitted wear for days! Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Susan Fatemi > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 12:05 AM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: What is this picture? > > > > -Poster: Susan Fatemi > > Elizabeth Jones wrote: > > > > What is this garment? > > > > > http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/images/H ig h.Italian.Renaissance/CJ38.gif > I see it says renaissance, but it looks like an Ottoman (or Persian?) caftan with those long false sleeves. Susan F. -- Oh Noh! Kimonos! susanf@netwiz.net http://www.netwiz.net/~susanf ____________________________________________________________ _____ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 22:08:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA27924 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:08:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA07407; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:21:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA10532 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:21:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA10518 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:21:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA07889 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:21:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-179.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.179]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA02828 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:21:02 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <001901bf0a2a$eb3841a0$0f10fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: unmatched bodice and skirts Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 20:30:01 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: "Michelle" -----Original Message----- From: Julie Adams To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Monday, September 27, 1999 10:42 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: unmatched bodice and skirts > >-Poster: Julie Adams > >> I found this today. The bodice and skirt are unmatched and the >>sleeves match the skirt. >>http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/images/High.Italian.Re naiss >>ance/CJ05.jpg > >Hard to say, but this could be an apron too. I have seen a number of German >Renn. peasant dresses and even an upper class one or two that are unmatched >though. Sometimes people do mistake one of the apron styles (one that goes >all the way around with a smocked waist) as an overskirt, but there are >several that are clearly unmatched that you can even see the apron. >Breugel has some in various paintings and there is a series of tapestries >of the seasons that show some clearly. Unmatched skirts/bodices tends to be >a lower class thing in the earlier period 16th c Germany at least... > >Julie Adams > Julie, The skirt section looks cartrige pleated to me, not smocked. I know what you mean about those aprons though. There was another picture that I found and after I sent it to the list, I realized that it was an apron. Fooled me! These unmatched portraits are so rare that I was thrilled to find this one. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Sep 28 22:59:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA28103 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:59:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13955; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:13:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA18426 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:13:10 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.radiks.net (mail.radiks.net [205.138.126.4]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA18415 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:13:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from dialup (56K-lnk-121.radiks.net [206.29.243.123]) by mail.radiks.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA22752 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:11:29 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19990928230930.0068ea88@radiks.net> X-Sender: costumrs@radiks.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:09:30 -0500 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger Subject: H-COST: Re: recycling and duct tape double In-Reply-To: <199909281708.LAA01898@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Pierre & Sandy Pettinger >> What is the most interesting vintage/antique item of clothing you've found >> at such shops? And what did you pay for it? 1. The black wool crepe skirt suit ('30's? '40's?) with velveteen collar that fit my size 3 sister-in-law perfectly - about $5 at the annual Community playhouse garage sale. 2. The orange-yellow-amber starburst rhinestone brooch I finally sold to someone else because I don't usually wear that color - it was an oval about 5" x 3" - bigger than my fist! Re: Duct tape doubles for men: I did one for my husband, but we didn't stop at the torso - we did a full-body mannequin! It took about 5 big rolls of tape. Foundation was a cheap set of long underwear, and old socks. It took about 3 hours. You need to cut from the neck down to the hip line, cut up from the wrists, and slit the legs at the ankle, to get out of it. It worked, though. Don't remember now what we were making. I think it's still in the basement. I don't think he wants to do it again, though. Sandy _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 00:29:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA28162 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 00:29:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA21831; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:42:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA28720 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:42:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA28714 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 23:42:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (vandial33.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.33]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id WAA22842 for ; Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:37:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990928224344.007a97c0@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:43:44 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: Re: H-COST: Bodice Fitting challenge In-Reply-To: <199909260243.TAA06269@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kris >-Poster: Margo Anderson >I have just been presented with a formidable problem: I have a friend who >would like a Ren Faire "wench" bodice. She's a largish woman, maybe a size >20, except that she has very large breasts. I believe she said a J cup. >They are (each) larger than her head, and not surprisingly hang to her >waistline. >She would like something that holds them up somewhat, keeping them held in >place for comfort, without pushing them up to her chin. I'm not sure where >to start patterning something like this. Can anyone offer advice? There's a decent simplicity pattern out.. that wench one :] I don't know if you would want to use the seams that go diagonally across the chest, but it is *very* supportive, and you would be able to adjust it for the formidable cup size. Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 03:46:46 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA24644 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 03:46:46 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA04295; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 03:00:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA16750 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 03:00:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA16745 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 03:00:32 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JGJEMH1X4G004F07@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:05:42 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JGJEMB80QU005JOD@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:04:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:57:27 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:57:23 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:57:18 +1100 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:57:18 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-COST: Cupro...? To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <58103E8205E@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: teddy1 I've seen fabric called "cupro" advertized, can anyone tell me what it is? Thanks Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 05:31:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA24814 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 05:31:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA09755; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:44:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA19010 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:44:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from macquarie.matra.com.au (root@macquarie.exp.net.au [203.56.200.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA19005 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 04:44:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from macquarie.matra.com.au (meliora@macquarie.exp.net.au [203.56.200.11]) by macquarie.matra.com.au (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id UAA05652 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:44:37 +1000 Message-ID: <37F2DC9B.5AA5C030@macquarie.matra.com.au> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:44:28 -0700 From: Meliora & Drake X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Shinrone Gown - help? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Meliora & Drake Greetings all, I'e just resubscribed after a long absence so please bear with me while I ask some truly ignorant questions. I have recently read Kass McGann's article on the Shinrone Gown (both on her website and in TI 130) and am considering having a go at making one. Has this been discussed on the list before? How do I access/search the archives? If the list is sick of this topic (how would I know - I haven't been on) could someone please advise me privately. I would like to read what has been said about this dress before I start asking the same basic questions over again. Thanks for your patience and assistance Mel. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 06:47:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24994 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:47:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA13896; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:01:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA25311 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:01:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from spdmgaaf.compuserve.com (ds-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.206.139]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25306 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:01:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.7) id IAA04870 for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:01:05 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:00:35 -0400 From: Margaret Bolger Subject: H-COST: Patterns etc To: all Message-ID: <199909290800_MC2-86E6-EEE4@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id GAA25307 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Margaret Bolger Apologies if you are already aware of this, but I thought it might be of interest! At my 'Antique Costume & Textiles Fair' last week, Lindy Pickard and Dave Rushworth were selling a whole load of patterns and handbooks - I think they have only recently started their business. Their 45 patterns cover a number of periods : Viking, Medieval, 16thC, English Civil War, 18thC, 19thC - and range from trousers, tunics, doublets, hose, breeches, frock coats etc in a wide range of sizes. Their handbooks include : Medieval Women, medieval men, How to make Medieval Shoes, 17thC Women, 1798 French Revolutionary Uniform, 1812-15 French Infantry Uniform. They also sell natural fibre textiles, buttons etc. Their business is called Petty Chapman and is based in Yorkshire UK. Tele: +44 (0) 1484.512968 If anyone wants more information and their address, please get in touch with me. I also have a full list of the available patterns and handbooks. (I have no connection with them - just passing information along!) Margaret antique costume & textiles http://www.artizania.co.uk _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 07:09:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25035 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:09:57 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA15678; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:24:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA27678 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:23:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA27672 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:23:57 -0600 (MDT) From: AnnBWass@aol.com Received: from AnnBWass@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6CPLa09808 (4228) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:23:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <85f3ee02.25235eb9@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:23:21 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: Cupro...? To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 41 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: AnnBWass@aol.com There are two different processes for making rayon: the viscose process and the cuprammonium process. Different solvents are used to dissolve the cellulose. I believe the cuprammonium process was abandoned in the U.S. because of environmental concerns, but I presume it is being produced in Europe or Asia. It is finer, softer, and stronger than viscose rayon. Ann Wass _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 07:36:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA25054 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:36:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA16920; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:50:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA00360 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:50:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtpgate.uvm.edu (smtpgate.uvm.edu [132.198.101.121]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA00355 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 06:50:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from uvm.edu (208.13.202.31) by smtpgate.uvm.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.39C6D790@smtpgate.uvm.edu>; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 7:49:57 -0500 Message-ID: <37F20A82.7778C45E@uvm.edu> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:48:02 -0400 From: Hope Greenberg X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Tudor details Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Hope Greenberg (I'm not obsessing on these images, really I'm not!) (x-posted to sca-garb) I've been looking at the Tudor images again (http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/tudor) and want to propose two ideas. What do you think? 1) The gown, specifically the neckline and sides of front opening in skirt, was bound with cording, piping or some kind of trim. (see particularly the close-up of the early Catherine of Aragon and the Young Mary 1) 2) The jeweled or ribbon decorative neck trim was often affixed to the undergown/kirtle, not to the overgown, but showed at the neckline because the kirtle neck opening was cut higher than the gown neck opening. What do you think? Crazy or has this always been obvious/accepted and I just missed it? - Alice Nele _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 10:14:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25436 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:14:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10241; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:27:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA01433 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:26:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA01427 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:26:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JGJS4WG1NK004OD3@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:32:06 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JGJS4PNX2Q005B6J@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:31:23 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:24:05 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:23:44 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:23:39 +1100 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:23:39 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-COST: Picture Puzzle...? To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <587748F4BB4@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: teddy1 Can anyone give me any idea why this image http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/images/Elizab ethan.Men/CN08.gif is included in a set labelled Elizabethan *men*...? Or am I seeing three women when it is really a picture of 3 men? Just curious Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 10:25:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25493 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:25:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA12260; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:37:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA04294 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:36:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (firewall-user@fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA04277 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:36:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id QAA22219; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:42:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by net.indra.com, id smtpd022165; Wed Sep 29 16:42:37 1999 Received: by cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:40:25 -0700 Message-ID: From: Betsy Perry To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Picture Puzzle...? Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:40:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Betsy Perry That's a notorious picture of Henri III of France's "mignons". Men who put ribbons in their hair, duelled like demons, and were very close friends of the king. --- Elizabeth Hanes Perry Rogue Wave Software > -----Original Message----- > From: teddy1 [mailto:teddy1@mdx.ac.uk] > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 12:24 PM > To: h-costume-digest@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: Picture Puzzle...? > > > > -Poster: teddy1 > > Can anyone give me any idea why this image > > http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/images/Elizab > ethan.Men/CN08.gif > > is included in a set labelled Elizabethan *men*...? Or am I seeing > three women when it is really a picture of 3 men? > > Just curious > > > > Teddy > (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of > air and darkness, apparently!) > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 10:34:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25504 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:34:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA14433; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:47:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA07228 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:47:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07210 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:47:22 -0600 (MDT) From: Kwhykelly@aol.com Received: from Kwhykelly@aol.com by imo12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6EDYa01787 (4323) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:46:41 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <687abc72.25238e60@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:46:40 EDT Subject: H-COST: grommets or buttonhole?: Was Raglan sleeves To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kwhykelly@aol.com Looking at the picture I could not tell if the dress had grommets, lacing rings or buttonhole. What do you think? Kristi Kelly _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 10:39:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25519 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:39:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA15593; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:52:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08667 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:52:50 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08652 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:52:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA23632 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:51:57 -0400 Message-ID: <37F2359D.572B30BB@thibault.org> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:51:59 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Picture Puzzle...? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Were they just outrageous for kicks, or were they transvestite lovers of the king? Betsy Perry wrote: > That's a notorious picture of Henri III of France's "mignons". Men who put > ribbons in their hair, duelled like demons, and were very close friends of > the king. -- The most outrageous lies that can be invented will find believers if a person only tells them with all his might. -- Mark Twain _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 10:50:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25611 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:50:43 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18195; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:04:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA11503 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:03:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com (imo26.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.70]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11497 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:03:43 -0600 (MDT) From: Kwhykelly@aol.com Received: from Kwhykelly@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6BCMa06118 (4323) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:03:04 EDT Subject: H-COST: How to reproduce the hat?: was Raglan sleeves To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kwhykelly@aol.com Hi again, missed the lurker's day so I'm making up for it today. Looking at the hat in the picture, it looks like a strip of 3-4 inch cloth wrapped into a wheel. Would this be wired to keep it together? Would I tac it in various spots? Also, what sort of fabric would I use for it? Would I be able to cheat and use that fancy wired ribbon in white satin or a brocade? Also, the woman is wearing her hair down under this, is this only a style for young women/maidens, or is this a common style for women of all ages. Thanks Kristi Kelly _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 11:03:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25648 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:03:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20549; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:16:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA15094 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:16:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA15087 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:16:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id JAA18085; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:17:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F23BDC.FD79E476@serv.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:18:37 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How to reproduce the hat?: was Raglan sleeves References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris I'm assuming you mean the Fram Air Filter Hat on Mary Madgalen by Rogier van der Weyden. Simplicity has this exact hat in a pattern right now. I personally wouldn't wear this hat because it's allegorical, not accurate but hey, you can find a complete instruction guide on the pattern. :) A favor? Please include more information in your replies (or a quote from the original post) because it's hard to tell what it is you're asking about. :) Cynthia Kwhykelly@aol.com wrote: > -Poster: Kwhykelly@aol.com > > Hi again, missed the lurker's day so I'm making up for it today. > > Looking at the hat in the picture, it looks like a strip of 3-4 inch cloth > wrapped into a wheel. Would this be wired to keep it together? Would I tac > it in various spots? Also, what sort of fabric would I use for it? Would I be > able to cheat and use that fancy wired ribbon in white satin or a brocade? > > Also, the woman is wearing her hair down under this, is this only a style for > young women/maidens, or is this a common style for women of all ages. > > Thanks > > Kristi Kelly > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 11:13:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25667 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:13:12 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22482; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:26:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17595 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:26:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com (imo-d03.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.35]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17588 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:26:06 -0600 (MDT) From: Kwhykelly@aol.com Received: from Kwhykelly@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6CXXHfQBA_ (4323) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:25:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:25:34 EDT Subject: Re: H-COST: How to reproduce the hat?: was Raglan sleeves To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Kwhykelly@aol.com 'm assuming you mean the Fram Air Filter Hat on Mary Madgalen by Rogier van der Weyden. Simplicity has this exact hat in a pattern right now. I personally wouldn't wear this hat because it's allegorical, not accurate but hey, you can find a complete instruction guide on the pattern. :) A favor? Please include more information in your replies (or a quote from the original post) because it's hard to tell what it is you're asking about. :) Cynthia ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Sorry, not familar with AOL yet, old mail would just tack my responce to old mail. So, the hat is not something that was worn? What sort of head dressing would have been worn with this dress. Most times I have a difficult time telling reality from allegorical or just plain fantasy in the earlier art. Thanks Kristi Kelly _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 11:22:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25673 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:22:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23825; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:34:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA19442 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:33:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [209.246.15.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA19426 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:33:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA21984 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:33:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id JAA18757; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:33:01 -0700 Message-ID: <37F23F22.DBFBC18B@us.oracle.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:32:34 -0400 From: Elizabeth Jones Organization: Oracle Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume Subject: H-COST: Caftan/Simar/Italian Renaissance Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Elizabeth Jones http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/text/Italian.Renaissance/CJ38.html I had asked about this garment as it was listed in the "High Italian Ren" section of the Tulane Costume section. At the time I did not know there was any text available, which is why I asked. Going back and being a little more deliberate, I see it is stated as "Caftan of Beyazit II (1447-1513) Costume Gallery, Topkapi Saray Museum, Istanbul. It also states: "This is the caftan brought to Italy and developed into the simar." I am not sure where that statement comes from (sounds very authoritative, doesn't it?), but perhaps this is how legends or myths get started! I wonder if an evolution of this was the English embroidered jackets late in the 16th century? I cannot remember seeing a relation to this in Italian costuming of the early 16th century, so I don't know how it evolved. Actually, portraits or jackets in general are scarce in Italian fashion. At any rate, I was not familiar with the term "simar" so I looked it up in my Costume Language book. (I must add that recent discussion here have made me use this book, previously collecting dust, and it is performing very well - it seems to have all the terms I need, albeit brief ones) SIMAR: Fem, Short jacket for indoors wear of velvet, plush or brocade. Jacket edges and long sleeves fur trimmed. Worn in the Netherlands and American Colonies. 17th and 18th centuries. (see also SAMARRE) SAMARRE: Fem, (basically same as above, "sometimes furtrimmed", but also:) Worn over full silk skirt. Depicted by Dutch Masters, Vermeer, etc. "Hope wrote: Jacqueline Herald in *Dress in Renaissance Italy 1450-1550* describes the intense craze in Italy during the Renaissance for Ottoman caftans. They Italian kings and nobles adored the exoticism and comfort of the garments. Caftans were a preferred gift from their Turkish trading partners, and there was an intense trade. Parties were held in the courts where the caftans were the only permitted wear for days! Susan Fatemi wrote: I see it says renaissance, but it looks like an Ottoman (or Persian?) caftan with those long false sleeves. Regards, Liz Jones _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 11:38:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25787 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:38:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26242; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:51:45 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24196 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:51:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from fw2.roguewave.com (firewall-user@fw2.roguewave.com [208.151.233.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24187 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:51:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: by fw2.roguewave.com; id RAA14493; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:57:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com(10.68.4.36) via SMTP by net.indra.com, id smtpd014487; Wed Sep 29 17:57:24 1999 Received: by cvo1.cvo.roguewave.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:55:12 -0700 Message-ID: From: Betsy Perry To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Picture Puzzle...? Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:55:10 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Betsy Perry > Betsy Perry wrote: > > That's a notorious picture of Henri III of France's > "mignons". Men who put > > ribbons in their hair, duelled like demons, and were very > close friends of > > the king. > -Poster: Cynthia Virtue > > Were they just outrageous for kicks, or were they > transvestite lovers of > the king? > Um, yes. ;-) They were being outrageous for kicks, they did cross-dress, as did Henri III, and they were believed to be the king's lovers. I don't know what modern historians believe about whether the relationship was physical or not. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 11:41:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25793 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:41:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA26779; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:54:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25029 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:54:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25019 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:54:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id JAA19637; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F244A1.ACA35A50@serv.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 09:56:02 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How to reproduce the hat?: was Raglan sleeves References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Sorry, not familar with AOL yet, old mail would just tack my responce to old > mail. No problem. :) > So, the hat is not something that was worn? What sort of head dressing would > have been worn with this dress. > Most times I have a difficult time telling reality from allegorical or just > plain fantasy in the earlier art. Well, for me, there are two questions I ask. Who is wearing the item? Have I seen it worn anywhere or on anyone else? In this case Mary Magdalen is wearing it, a saint, a dead give away that it isn't typical. And I don't think I've seen another Fram Air Filter hat. (*GGG* Sorry, can't help it, a friend called it that and I was done for *GGG*) In the case of say, turbans, these were used to depict someone as foreign, like the three wise men. So, the wearer, if either a religious person or saint or a person of foreign persuasion (foreign to the painter or country), it might very well be allegorical. Cynthia > > > Thanks > > Kristi Kelly > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 11:48:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25827 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:48:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA28603; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:01:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA27336 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:01:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA27328 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 11:01:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id KAA19937; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F24678.F165B62@serv.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 10:03:53 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Picture Puzzle...? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: O -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > > That's a notorious picture of Henri III of France's > > "mignons". Men who put ribbons in their hair, duelled like demons, > > Um, yes. ;-) They were being outrageous for kicks, they did cross-dress, > as did Henri III, and they were believed to be the king's lovers. I don't > know what modern historians believe about whether the relationship was > physical or not. I guess what we can say for sure is that they aren't Elizabethan. They're French. Right? What would the costume era be termed in late 16th century France? Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 13:39:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25988 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:39:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16214; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:52:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA25495 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:50:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25486 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:50:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.200]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:44:01 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How to reproduce the hat?: was Raglan sleeves Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:47:06 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37f4579d.322809763@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id MAA25491 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:25:34 EDT, the following was written in this electric book by Kwhykelly@aol.com: >What sort of head dressing would >have been worn with this dress. http://152.19.254.81/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg Well, first off, the dress she's seen wearing is her underdress, over which would have gone a fashionable gown (as is indicated by the fancy embroidered/brocaded sleeve). Which type of fashionable gown? Probably some type of high-waisted houppelande, but I couldn't tell you which variation. She's shown in her underwear because it is a painterly device indicating emotional distress or mourning. The center panel of the triptych (which is not part of this online exhibit, but is in one of my many art references) depicts Christ being placed in his tomb by his freinds and family, while she watches, sadly introspective, from this panel. This is, presumably, *why* she's upset. To answer your question about the lacing holes (posed in a nother message), they are likely worked holes, made by working open the fabric with an awl and then stitching round the holes to secure them, one at a time. Grommets were not introduced until much later, and the lacing clearly goes through the holes, which you will see if you get REALLY close to your monitor and look (if your monitor is dim, try setting the brightness higher) - some go over, some go under. Poorer women likely did wear just the kirtle (underdress) with pin-on sleeves, but their sleeves would have been plain for ease of washing or cost-effectiveness. That style of dress probably evolved into the type of dress peasant women wore fairly commonly in the late 16th-17thcenturies. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 13:47:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA25994 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:47:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA17174; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:00:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27409 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:58:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from raven.sat.net (raven.sat.net [207.224.54.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA27401 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:58:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: from murf (htv26.sat.net [209.181.153.122]) by raven.sat.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA05371 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:58:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <002201bf0aad$57da2f80$7a99b5d1@murf> From: "Jose & Linda" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: How to reproduce the hat?: was Raglan sleeves Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:03:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Jose & Linda" Does anyone by any chance know where to find period patterns for 14th century italian ladies?thanks stella -----Original Message----- From: StrangeGirl To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 1:54 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: How to reproduce the hat?: was Raglan sleeves > >-Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) > >On Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:25:34 EDT, the following was written in this >electric book by Kwhykelly@aol.com: > >>What sort of head dressing would >>have been worn with this dress. >http://152.19.254.81/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg > >Well, first off, the dress she's seen wearing is her underdress, over >which would have gone a fashionable gown (as is indicated by the fancy >embroidered/brocaded sleeve). Which type of fashionable gown? Probably >some type of high-waisted houppelande, but I couldn't tell you which >variation. She's shown in her underwear because it is a painterly >device indicating emotional distress or mourning. The center panel of >the triptych (which is not part of this online exhibit, but is in one >of my many art references) depicts Christ being placed in his tomb by >his freinds and family, while she watches, sadly introspective, from >this panel. This is, presumably, *why* she's upset. > >To answer your question about the lacing holes (posed in a nother >message), they are likely worked holes, made by working open the >fabric with an awl and then stitching round the holes to secure them, >one at a time. Grommets were not introduced until much later, and the >lacing clearly goes through the holes, which you will see if you get >REALLY close to your monitor and look (if your monitor is dim, try >setting the brightness higher) - some go over, some go under. > > Poorer women likely did wear just the kirtle (underdress) with pin-on >sleeves, but their sleeves would have been plain for ease of washing >or cost-effectiveness. That style of dress probably evolved into the >type of dress peasant women wore fairly commonly in the late >16th-17thcenturies. > >Margery >"Do you have any files?" >"We're the government, of course we have files." >Millenium >{*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 14:08:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26021 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:08:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA20306; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:22:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA03121 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:22:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mb06.swip.net (mb06.swip.net [193.12.122.210]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA03111 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:22:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [212.151.166.157] (d212-151-166-157.swipnet.se [212.151.166.157]) by mb06.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA21891 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:22:21 +0200 (MET DST) X-Sender: md21199@dredd.swip.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <938472318.6591.257@excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:23:28 +0100 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Ninni Pettersson Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ninni Pettersson At 23.45 +0100 99-09-27, StitchWitch wrote: >Now, a question somewhat remotly related to the purpose of this list . . . >What is the most interesting vintage/antique item of clothing you've found >at such shops? And what did you pay for it? I'd be interested in seeing what >folk have found in their various locations, being the thrift store junkie >that I am. I just made the best find I've done in years. (At a Salvation Army store.) A winter coat from (I think) the mid 60s, which I paid 95 Swedish kronor for (about 7.5 pounds / 11.5 dollars). It's made from dark, greyish brown wool, with a beige-brown mink-collar. It fits me like a dream, and it has apparently never been worn! It's very interestingly cut: the back part of the arm is cut in one with the back, something I've never seen before. /Ninni Pettersson _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 14:22:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26071 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:22:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22562; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:35:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06162 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:35:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06150 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:35:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p44.directcon.net [206.170.184.93]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA02221 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:33:43 -0700 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:33:43 -0700 Message-Id: <199909291933.MAA02221@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Picture Puzzle...? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson >I guess what we can say for sure is that they aren't Elizabethan. They're >French. Right? What would the costume era be termed in late 16th century >France? I'd call it "late 16th Century French". It''s a bit cumbersome, but not as silly as "French Elizabethan". Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 14:27:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26075 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:27:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA23610; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:40:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07499 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:40:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vega.utulsa.edu (vega.utulsa.edu [129.244.1.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07492 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:40:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mcfref55 (ref08.utulsa.edu) by vega.utulsa.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.05.24.18.28.p7) with SMTP id <0FIU000DQ6LQSA@vega.utulsa.edu> for h-costume@indra.com; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:39:26 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:48:38 -0500 From: Marc Carlson Subject: H-COST: Medieval clothing glossary X-Sender: marc-carlson@pop.utulsa.edu To: h-costume@indra.com Message-id: <3.0.6.32.19990929144838.0079e8c0@pop.utulsa.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Marc Carlson Since the question has come up once or twice recently, and I get bored easily, I'm thinking about compiling a gloss of medieval clothing terms. The basic "seed" is at the clothing site http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthenon/5923/cloth/bockhome.html If anyone has any comments, contributions, whatnot, please let me know. Marc Marc-carlson@utulsa.edu _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 14:28:59 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26080 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:28:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24011; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:42:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07866 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:42:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07851 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:42:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p44.directcon.net [206.170.184.93]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA02990 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:40:44 -0700 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 12:40:44 -0700 Message-Id: <199909291940.MAA02990@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson I just came from the tiny thrift store in my tiny town, where I found a 50 yard roll of bone casing and a 100 yard roll of corset lacing. I paid $5.50 for both. I'm probably the only person in town who would even know what it was, let alone buy it. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 14:48:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA26156 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:48:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA27251; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:00:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA12132 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:59:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA12111 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 13:59:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.200]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:53:57 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: marc-carlson@utulsa.edu Subject: Re: H-COST: Medieval clothing glossary Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:57:02 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37f76cfd.328282819@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <3.0.6.32.19990929144838.0079e8c0@pop.utulsa.edu> In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.19990929144838.0079e8c0@pop.utulsa.edu> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA12128 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:48:38 -0500, the following was written in this electric book by Marc Carlson : >Since the question has come up once or twice recently, and I get bored >easily, >I'm thinking about compiling a gloss of medieval clothing terms. The basic >"seed" is at the clothing site >http://www.geocities.com/athens/parthenon/5923/cloth/bockhome.html > >If anyone has any comments, contributions, whatnot, please let me know. This needed to be done by someone who specializes in the period concerned. I'm glad it's you. Your scholarship is outstanding. If it's helpful, one of my particular areas of interest is spinning/weaving and the study of the history of textile production. I would be happy to contribute definitions/drawings and give bibliographic sources for all of the above. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 15:19:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA26256 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:19:27 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA02892; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:32:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA19969 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:32:51 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp1.erols.com (smtp1.erols.com [207.172.3.234]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA19959 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:32:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from martha (209-122-224-191.s445.tnt3.nyw.ny.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.224.191]) by smtp1.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA12879 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:32:48 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002201bf0ab7$2ad29540$bfe07ad1@martha> From: "Martha Kelly" To: References: <199909291940.MAA02990@apollo.directcon.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:13:55 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Martha Kelly" Congratulations on your wonderful finds. How do you plan to tip the corset lacing? Martha K ----- Original Message ----- From: Margo Anderson To: Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 3:40 PM Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling > > -Poster: Margo Anderson > > I just came from the tiny thrift store in my tiny town, where I found a 50 > yard roll of bone casing and a 100 yard roll of corset lacing. I paid $5.50 > for both. > > I'm probably the only person in town who would even know what it was, let > alone buy it. > > Margo > > "One Tough Costumer" > http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 16:08:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26313 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:08:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA10227; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:14:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA00624 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:14:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [209.246.15.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA00612 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:14:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id OAA19687 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:14:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id OAA28730; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:14:14 -0700 Message-ID: <37F2810D.9567B242@us.oracle.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:13:49 -0400 From: Elizabeth Jones Organization: Oracle Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume Subject: H-COST: French late 16th century Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E42128544AF62C997CE88F75" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Jones This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E42128544AF62C997CE88F75 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit What would the costume era be termed in late 16th century France? I think Valois is the correct family at that time, but late 16th century France works for me! Liz Jones --------------E42128544AF62C997CE88F75 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ljones.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Elizabeth Jones Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ljones.vcf" begin:vcard n:;Elizabeth Jones x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr;dom;quoted-printable:;;Oracle Corporation =0D=0A100 Summit Lake Drive;Valhalla;NY;10595; org:Global Networks version:2.1 email;internet:ljones@us.oracle.com title:Senior Project Manager tel;fax:203-267-5856 tel;work:914-773-8169 x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Elizabeth Jones end:vcard --------------E42128544AF62C997CE88F75-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 16:17:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26319 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:17:49 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12600; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:31:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA04241 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:31:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA04233 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:31:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id OAA00897; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:32:09 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F285B5.F37514B7@serv.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 14:33:42 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: French late 16th century References: <37F2810D.9567B242@us.oracle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > What would the costume era be termed in late 16th century France? > > I think Valois is the correct family at that time, but late 16th century > France works for me! Oh yes! I heard that term the other night. Okay. :) Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 16:24:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA26325 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:24:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA13478; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:38:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA05722 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:37:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from na-ims.alcoa.com ([147.154.3.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA05685 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:37:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: by NA-IMS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:10:50 -0400 Message-ID: <0B3E3AA67456D311A9FC0000E889ED9809F52A@na-dpw1.dpw.alcoa.com> From: "Fairchild, Connie E." To: "'h-costume-digest@indra.com'" Subject: H-COST: Children's clothing of 1870's Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:04:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Fairchild, Connie E." Teddy asked about good sources for details for the clothing of a small girl (6 - 10 yrs).... In her book, "Dressed for the Photographer", Joan Severa has details on just this in the 1870's section. She tells about the fabric, colors, and styles from the inside out. If you need specific pages, please let me know and I will forward that information to you. Connie Fairchild _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 17:10:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26383 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:10:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19122; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:23:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA16033 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:23:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA16014 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:23:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id HAA18537 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:53:00 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65v4.0/1.1.19.2/11Aug99-1220PM) id AA14853; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:53:00 +0930 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:52:59 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant To: h-costume Subject: Re: H-COST: Caftan/Simar/Italian Renaissance In-Reply-To: <37F23F22.DBFBC18B@us.oracle.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Wed, 29 Sep 1999, Elizabeth Jones wrote: > At any rate, I was not familiar with the term "simar" so I looked it up > in my Costume Language book. (I must add that recent discussion here > have made me use this book, previously collecting dust, and it is > performing very well - it seems to have all the terms I need, albeit > brief ones) > > SIMAR: Fem, Short jacket for indoors wear of velvet, plush or brocade. > Jacket edges and long sleeves fur trimmed. Worn in the Netherlands and > American Colonies. 17th and 18th centuries. (see also SAMARRE) > > Wasn't 'simar' also a word used for the Henry VII era men's long gown? The one with big furry lapels? I'm sure I've seen it called that somewhere. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 17:22:43 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA26418 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:22:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20541; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:36:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA19040 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:36:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.10]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA19031 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:36:17 -0600 (MDT) From: Appin1@aol.com Received: from Appin1@aol.com by imo20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6KQAa21483 (3879) for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:35:43 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <27a6675a.2523ee3d@aol.com> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:35:41 EDT Subject: H-COST: New FO To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 27 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Appin1@aol.com I have finished a 1699 mantua and fontage. My undying gratitude to Bjarne Drews for his assistance in describing how he put together the fontage and fastened the "bustle" of the dress. While I think this is probably the single most unattractive garment ever designed for women, I must say that everything worked and the darn thing looks like it should. I made it for a ball honoring the 300th anniversary of the founding of Williamsburg. Since there are several houses in the area dating from the late 17th/early 18th century, I will have the opportunity to wear it again at special programs I participate in. The gown is made of a heavy mulberry damask with a large 17th century stylized floral pattern-- several old sets of drapes, actually, that have discolored a bit over time. No one has noticed this because all the events I have worn the mantua to have been candle-lit. The pattern I drafted seems to be typical since it shows up in Hunnisett, Bradfield, and "The Cut of Women's Clothes" -- pretty much identical. The mantua has elbow-length sleeves with a small cuff, revers,and sewn-down pleats (for shaping) in the back. It has a stomacher of matching fabric (with the pattern centered on it) that pins onto the corset with tabs, then is further held on by cross lacing using lacing rings sewn inside the gown. The lacing is maroon ribbon. I basted long lace ruffles onto the inside of the sleeves. The train of the gown is pulled up in the center back and buttoned (with loops) into a "fountain" The chemise also has plainer ruffles (at elbows and neckline) and is of a striped batiste. The petticoat is mauve with tiny fleurs de lys stamped on it. The fontage is made of very stiff organza, which meant that I didn't have to starch it. It is cut according to the pattern in "Evolution of Fashion" (1710?). The cap of the fontage is tacked to a buckram hat form and the pleated front part is wired to it. Maroon ribbons encircle the cap. Miraculously, the fontage does not droop, but sits at the appropriate angle and stays there. If I can, I will scan a photo of me in the dress and offer it for observation and comment. Kathleen Norvell _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 18:26:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26511 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:26:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA27993; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:37:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA02204 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:37:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02187 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:37:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (vandial14.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.14]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA12201 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990929163837.007d9bf0@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 16:38:37 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling In-Reply-To: References: <938472318.6591.257@excite.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris >>-Poster: "StitchWitch" >>Now, a question somewhat remotly related to the purpose of this list . . . >>What is the most interesting vintage/antique item of clothing you've found >>at such shops? And what did you pay for it? I'd be interested in seeing what >>folk have found in their various locations, being the thrift store junkie >>that I am. Just this week, I found this great winter jacket from the early '70's (baby doll, pointed collar, fits over my hips [yay!]). It's grey wool, lined with peach something. Just gorgeous, and it should last me forever.. Cost me $4.. Canadian.. Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 18:34:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26517 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:34:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29155; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:48:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA04018 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:48:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vrcgate.suffolk.lib.ny.us (root@vrcgate.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.91.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA04009 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:48:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: from bchamber (pool198.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.93.198]) by vrcgate.suffolk.lib.ny.us (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA20662 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <003001bf0ad5$11f2cd60$c65dadc7@bchamber> From: "Beth" To: "H-Costume" Subject: H-COST: Pre-Revolution costume Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:48:01 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF0AB3.89B30DA0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Beth" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF0AB3.89B30DA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HELP!!=20 My local historical society is embarking on a project to costume the = instructors who teach in their school programs. For various reasons my = mother and I have some serious concerns about how accurate the clothes = will be. Am I right that the mop caps so popular back in 1976 are not = really accurate? Can someone give me documentation for this? The first = thing they had my mother looking for was our old patterns from 1976. I = haven't done anything close to this period since I was 10 so I'm = slightly lost and have very little time to at least convince them to = stop and research before they act. Can someone point me towards some = basic resources. I would be looking for housewife/farming clothing for = an area that was very well settled and populated by the 18th century. Thanks in advance=20 Beth ------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF0AB3.89B30DA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
HELP!!
My local historical society is embarking on a = project to=20 costume the instructors who teach in their school programs. For various = reasons=20 my mother and I have some serious concerns about how accurate the = clothes will=20 be. Am I right that the mop caps so popular back in 1976 are not really=20 accurate? Can someone give me documentation for this? The first thing = they had=20 my mother looking for was our old patterns from 1976. I haven't done = anything=20 close to this period since I was 10 so I'm slightly lost and have very = little=20 time to at least convince them to stop and research before they act. Can = someone=20 point me towards some basic resources. I would be looking for = housewife/farming=20 clothing for an area that was very well settled and populated by the = 18th=20 century.
 
Thanks in advance
Beth
------=_NextPart_000_002D_01BF0AB3.89B30DA0-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 18:58:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA26537 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:58:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA01548; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:12:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA07834 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:12:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA07828 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:12:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (vandial29.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.29]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA12394 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:07:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990929171351.007aec50@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 17:13:51 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: H-COST: Washing fur... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris I went to a local thrift shop the other day, and found a fab fur coat that was ripped in quite a few places for $4. So I got it :] I thought that it would make great trim or something. I actually want to use it to line a german ren 'partlet', but it needs to be washed before I put it on something to go against my skin. How would I go about doing this? I don't know what kind of fur it is.. It's many small pieced stitched together, and the leather part of it is very thin & delicate. Should I get it drycleaned? Thank you! Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 20:03:28 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26624 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:03:25 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA07905; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:16:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA17842 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:16:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from edtnps04.telusplanet.net (edtnps04.telusplanet.net [198.161.157.104]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA17830 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:16:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from clgrtnt5-port-389.agt.net ([161.184.53.135]:1058 "HELO Freya") by smtp1.telusplanet.net with SMTP id <79405-19737>; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:15:58 -0600 X-Sender: agottfre@pop.telusplanet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Subject: H-COST: Ice man dated X-Mailer: Message-Id: <19990930011604Z79405-19737+32@smtp1.telusplanet.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:15:58 -0600 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: agottfre@telusplanet.net (Angela Gottfred) Radio carbon dating of his clothing has now dated the Canadian iceman, Kwaday Dan Sinchi, as approximately 550 years old, roughly in the 1415-1445 A.D. range. This means he predates European contact on the west coast by about 300 years. Tatshenshini Ice Man died 550 years ago http://www.cbcnews.cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/1999/09/28/bc_ice man990928 Age of B.C. iceman revealed http://www.cbcnews.cbc.ca/cgi-bin/templates/view.cgi?/news/1999/09/28/iceman 990928 Your humble & obedient servant, Angela Gottfred agottfre@telusplanet.net _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 20:07:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26629 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:07:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08302; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:21:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA18491 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:20:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mc-qout2.whowhere.com (nytoday.whowhere.com [209.1.236.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA18485 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:20:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Unknown/Local ([?.?.?.?]) by shared1-mail.whowhere.com; Wed Sep 29 18:19:56 1999 To: h-costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:19:56 -0700 From: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: X-Sent-Mail: off X-Mailer: MailCity Service Subject: Re: H-COST: Washing fur... X-Sender-Ip: 199.44.36.116 Organization: email.women.com (http://www.emailwomen.com:80) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Ginnaphure Jayne Fayrebanke" >it needs to >be washed before I put it on something to go against my skin. How would I >go about doing this? My father's girlfriend has 6 or 7 fur coats and she cleans them with cornstarch...like you would a hamster, you can't get the hamsters wet ( or aren't supposed to) so you rub them in the cornstarch and it takes the oil and dirt etc off them, if it is severly dirty you might try some of that no-water soap, after all if it doesn't work it was only 4 dollars. also maybe try calling one of your local cleaners, someone there might know what you should do with it. Ever Yours, Ginnaphure ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ICQ# 41340093 AIM: Ginnaphure "Last time we mixed politics with religion, people got burned at the stake." Get free e-mail with a women.com membership at http://women.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 20:13:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26641 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:13:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA08973; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:27:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA19387 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:26:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19382; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:26:44 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EMQRZL2S; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:26:08 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: H-Costume@indra.com Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:40:58 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: Pre-Revolution costume Message-ID: <19990929.202017.-633591.3.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-4,6-7,9-12 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com It's been a few years since I was really active in 18th century re-enactment, but here are some of my resources. Rural Pennsylvania Clothing by Ellen J. Gehret ISBN 0-87387-105-7 Distaff Sketch Book by Robert L. Klinger Library of Congress Number 74-29086 (sorry, it's an old copy) Historic Dress in America by Elizabeth McClellan Library of Congress Number 70-81515 Tidings From The 18th Century by Beth Gilgun ISBN 1-880655-04-7 Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 20:30:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26657 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:30:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13332; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:44:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA21882 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:43:45 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21876 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:43:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.220 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:43:05 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Caftan/Simar/Italian Renaissance Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:52:10 -0400 Message-ID: <000d01bf0ae6$84bd0840$dc0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <37F23F22.DBFBC18B@us.oracle.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" The text on this website is highly innacurate, and this is a classic example. This 1447-1513 Turkish garment did emphatically *not* develop into the simar. The English/Dutch women's jacket had been around in one form or another since at least the every early 1400's. This caftan is a full length garment, not a jacket. All the caftans of this period in the Topkapi Museum are about as wide as they were high. The rulers were fat and short, about 4' -4" on average that period, by my guess. (The sleeves and general style are very ancient Persian. There were little slits at the elbow and near the shoulder on those ankle length sleeves for arms to stick through. The sleeves are vestigal on many clothes, ie not even big enough to get an arm through.) The brocade *may* have been manufactured in Asia Minor, where there were thousands of brocade factories in this period, providing the court and the harem new clothes twice per year. It was the major brocade manufacturing region at the time, (which shifted abruptly to Italy with the Conquest, c. 1453). I believe the circular embroidered polychrome patterns twined with flowers on English women's jackets of the 1600's copied their patterns from Chinese/Nepalese embroidered or brocade patterns. I saw a caftan from this region once in precisely the same pattern (but bigger) and coloration as those popular Englishwomen's jackets. I haven't seen a costume historian confirm that though. Italian women enjoyed their jackets, fur lined too in the colder months. There were undress wear for the upper classes, to keep warm around the house, but like today's sportswear, meant to be seen. I think the French started the fashion for being painted in negligee, and the English copied them. Dutch painters captured everyday scenes, and of course, managed record plenty of those jackets. I agree with you, that women in jackets don't show up so much in Italian paintings, compared to those of England and Holland. Hope H. Dunlap > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Elizabeth Jones > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 12:33 PM > To: h-costume > Subject: H-COST: Caftan/Simar/Italian Renaissance > > > > -Poster: Elizabeth Jones > > http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/text/Ita li > an.Renaissance/CJ38.html > > I had asked about this garment as it was listed in the "High Italian > Ren" section of the Tulane Costume section. At the time I did not know > there was any text available, which is why I asked. Going > back and being > a little more deliberate, I see it is stated as "Caftan of Beyazit II > (1447-1513) Costume Gallery, Topkapi Saray Museum, Istanbul. It also > states: "This is the caftan brought to Italy and developed into the > simar." > > I am not sure where that statement comes from (sounds very > authoritative, doesn't it?), but perhaps this is how legends or myths > get started! I wonder if an evolution of this was the English > embroidered jackets late in the 16th century? I cannot > remember seeing a > relation to this in Italian costuming of the early 16th century, so I > don't know how it evolved. Actually, portraits or jackets in > general are > scarce in Italian fashion. > > At any rate, I was not familiar with the term "simar" so I > looked it up > in my Costume Language book. (I must add that recent discussion here > have made me use this book, previously collecting dust, and it is > performing very well - it seems to have all the terms I need, albeit > brief ones) > > SIMAR: Fem, Short jacket for indoors wear of velvet, plush or brocade. > Jacket edges and long sleeves fur trimmed. Worn in the Netherlands and > American Colonies. 17th and 18th centuries. (see also SAMARRE) > > SAMARRE: Fem, (basically same as above, "sometimes furtrimmed", but > also:) Worn over full silk skirt. Depicted by Dutch Masters, Vermeer, > etc. > > "Hope wrote: Jacqueline Herald in *Dress in Renaissance Italy > 1450-1550* > describes the intense craze in Italy during the Renaissance > for Ottoman caftans. They Italian kings and nobles adored > the exoticism and comfort of the garments. Caftans were a > preferred gift from their Turkish trading partners, and > there was an intense trade. Parties were held in the courts > where the caftans were the only permitted wear for days! > > Susan Fatemi wrote: I see it says renaissance, but it looks like an > Ottoman > (or Persian?) caftan with those long false sleeves. > > > Regards, > > Liz Jones > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 20:30:25 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA26661 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:30:24 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA13317; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:44:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA21833 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:43:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu01.email.msn.com [207.46.181.26]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA21827 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:43:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.220 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 18:42:44 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: Pre-Revolution costume Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:23:41 -0400 Message-ID: <000501bf0ae6$74036a80$dc0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003001bf0ad5$11f2cd60$c65dadc7@bchamber> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Is this for the Suffolk , New York area, per your ISP address? Was that area Dutch or English settled before the Revolution? It makes a significant difference in the costume. Please let us know, and I'm sure List members can help. Costume accuracy has increased much since 1976, so you should be able to do better than the patterns available in 1976. Hope H. Dunlap -----Original Message----- From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On Behalf Of Beth Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 7:48 PM To: H-Costume Subject: H-COST: Pre-Revolution costume HELP!! My local historical society is embarking on a project to costume the instructors who teach in their school programs. For various reasons my mother and I have some serious concerns about how accurate the clothes will be. Am I right that the mop caps so popular back in 1976 are not really accurate? Can someone give me documentation for this? The first thing they had my mother looking for was our old patterns from 1976. I haven't done anything close to this period since I was 10 so I'm slightly lost and have very little time to at least convince them to stop and research before they act. Can someone point me towards some basic resources. I would be looking for housewife/farming clothing for an area that was very well settled and populated by the 18th century. Thanks in advance Beth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 21:19:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA26689 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:19:44 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18430; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:33:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA29567 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:32:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.email.msn.com (cpimssmtpu10.smtp.email.msn.com [207.46.181.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29557 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:32:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from sharp-9070- - 208.253.11.109 by email.msn.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 19:31:44 -0700 From: "Hope H. Dunlap" To: Subject: RE: H-COST: How to reproduce the hat?: was Raglan sleeves Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:39:48 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01bf0aed$4fd2b880$dc0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <37F23BDC.FD79E476@serv.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Hope H. Dunlap" Drea identified a second source for this hat in the de Heere water colors of Irish people, late 1500's--1570's as I remember. De Heere was Flemish, and the dress of the Irish was reputed to have many similarites to the Flemish. Given this evidence, its hard to label this hat style as allegorical. The de Heere watercolors are travelogue-style illustrations of "the natives," not religious by any stretch of the imagination. If anyone finds another period artwork with this style pictured, a lot of us would be interested. P. S. Thers' a Van der Weyden sketch of a real woman in this hat, presumably a model for the later religious painting. Hope H. Dunlap > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-h-costume@indra.com [mailto:owner-h-costume@indra.com]On > Behalf Of Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 1999 12:19 PM > To: h-costume@indra.com > Subject: Re: H-COST: How to reproduce the hat?: was Raglan sleeves > > > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > I'm assuming you mean the Fram Air Filter Hat on Mary > Madgalen by Rogier van der > Weyden. Simplicity has this exact hat in a pattern right > now. I personally > wouldn't wear this hat because it's allegorical, not accurate > but hey, you can > find a complete instruction guide on the pattern. :) > > A favor? Please include more information in your replies (or > a quote from the > original post) because it's hard to tell what it is you're > asking about. :) > Cynthia > > Kwhykelly@aol.com wrote: > > > -Poster: Kwhykelly@aol.com > > > > Hi again, missed the lurker's day so I'm making up for it today. > > > > Looking at the hat in the picture, it looks like a strip of > 3-4 inch cloth > > wrapped into a wheel. Would this be wired to keep it > together? Would I tac > > it in various spots? Also, what sort of fabric would I use > for it? Would I be > > able to cheat and use that fancy wired ribbon in white > satin or a brocade? > > > > Also, the woman is wearing her hair down under this, is > this only a style for > > young women/maidens, or is this a common style for women of > all ages. > > > > Thanks > > > > Kristi Kelly > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > -- > Cynthia Long > Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of An Tir > > > ____________________________________________________________ _____ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 22:36:57 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26843 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:36:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27967; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:50:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA11233 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:50:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11221 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:50:17 -0600 (MDT) From: sustre@pixelations.com Received: from [209.244.224.167] (dialup-209.244.224.167.Boston2.Level3.net [209.244.224.167]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12433 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:50:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: amanda@pixelations.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:54:26 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: sustre@pixelations.com I said: > > I was thinking of making an attempt at the 4-panel dress Robin described, > > and was contemplating wearing a sports bra for fitting- it's the one-piece > > kind that flatten one's breasts against the chest wall, making "mounds". > > It's supportive because the breasts are against the chest, not because of > > any cantilevering. >Rebecca said: >Is there a pattern for this sort of dress anywhere? Or is this one of those >"do it yourself" type things? As I am trying to do this sort of thing on my >own with no real experience, without any helpers (my hubby will do hems, but >that's about it!) a pattern really helps! I'm catching up on email, and apologize if soneone's already answered this. I'm not using a pattern; I plan to make it up first in some hideous and cheap fabric, then use that for a pattern. Or maybe as a base for some of the adjustments Robin referred to, to get other silhouettes. I don't have ahelper, which makes things more difficult, but have been sewing for lo these many years, and without a pettern for about 10 now. I use grocery bags to approximate curves, like necklines and armholes, then adjust through a series of fittings and mirror examinations. Or one can borrow the neck or armholes from an existing pattern... -Amanda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 22:37:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26850 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:37:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA27964; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:50:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA11244 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:50:20 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.49]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA11236 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:50:19 -0600 (MDT) From: sustre@pixelations.com Received: from [209.244.224.167] (dialup-209.244.224.167.Boston2.Level3.net [209.244.224.167]) by scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA12570 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 20:50:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: amanda@pixelations.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:54:26 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: sustre@pixelations.com One of my few thrift shop finds was pretty great. I don't shop in them as much as I used to, though my daughter adores them (I sew sl=kirts and wear them with t-shirts or turtlenecks most of the time). Still, last time I found a smocking pleater for $8! They had no idea what it was. It has all its bits, though a couple tiny round things could stand replacing; should be pretty easy. Now I need to figure out what to do with it..! -Amanda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 22:52:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26874 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:52:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29655; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:06:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA13380 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:06:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13375 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:06:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.15.239.145]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990930040531.SGXH7282@worldnet.att.net> for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:05:31 +0000 Message-ID: <37F2E1C6.6087882B@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:06:30 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Ninni Pettersson wrote: > > -Poster: Ninni Pettersson > > At 23.45 +0100 99-09-27, StitchWitch wrote: > >Now, a question somewhat remotly related to the purpose of this list . . . > >What is the most interesting vintage/antique item of clothing you've found > >at such shops? And what did you pay for it? I'd be interested in seeing what > >folk have found in their various locations, being the thrift store junkie > >that I am. I haven't really been reading this thread until now, but I'll chip in my best find - it was 5 yards of absolutely drop dead gorgeous kimono silk for 50 cents, at the Goodwill store in Kaneohe, Hawaii. This was about 20 years ago and I still have 3 yards of the silk left (used the other 2 yards for a Tudor). It was white with gold metallic butterflies woven into it. Very heavy satin weave. Looked a lot like the Worth fabric in "The Opulent Era" but the butterflies were all the same size and evenly distributed. More recently my best find was at the Long Beach Salvation Army - a silk net dress with vintage Chantilly lace forming the skirt in scallops at the bottom and midway up the skirt. The lace is a little worn where it was on the bodice but I"m planning to reback it onto black silk net when I can afford it, and turn it into an Edwardian ballgown (maybe for Costume college next year). Carolyn _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 22:56:14 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26878 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:56:13 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA29913; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:10:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA13852 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:09:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (root@lightspeed.bc.ca [206.12.82.130]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13844 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:09:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Porb (vandial12.lightspeed.bc.ca [204.244.233.12]) by sword.lightspeed.bc.ca (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA13753 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:05:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19990929211135.007bdbf0@antir.com> X-Sender: i.wonder@antir.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:11:35 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Kris Subject: H-COST: What kind of pleats would these be? In-Reply-To: References: <37E7BBA1.65A4@uvm.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kris I found this pic, and it looks like what I am trying to achieve.. at least in the pleating skirt to bodice part.. How would I do this? They look like knife pleats, but I'm not sure. http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/images/High.Italian.Rena issance/CJ09.jpg Thank you! Kris _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Wed Sep 29 22:59:11 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA26882 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:59:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA00433; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:13:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14355 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:12:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14349 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:12:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from worldnet.att.net ([63.15.239.145]) by mtiwmhc02.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <19990930041218.SJSW7282@worldnet.att.net> for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:12:18 +0000 Message-ID: <37F2E35F.37CA09B@worldnet.att.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 21:13:19 -0700 From: Carolyn Richardson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en]C-WNS2.5 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Sewing Machine Parts References: <0B3E3AA67456D311A9FC0000E889ED9809F514@na-dpw1.dpw.alcoa.com> <37F0AA62.DFDA2471@pacbell.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Richardson Dietmar wrote: > > -Poster: Dietmar > > I don't need a machine, but I've got a small problem. I've got a Singer > cabinet machine from circa 1960 and it runs well. Unfortunately, one of the > hinges on the cabinet lid has broken. Does anyone have suggestions on where to > find a replacement hinge? Dietmar, can you give me a description of the hinge? If it's one of the round ones with the peg that the machine slides into, I think I have a spare that might work. Carolyn/Tetchubah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 00:38:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27052 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:38:08 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA08655; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:51:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA25316 for h-costume-outgoing; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:51:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25306 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:51:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA25610 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:59:30 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA25472 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:58:40 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:58:40 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: re: H-COST: 14th century Dress In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Wed, 29 Sep 1999 sustre@pixelations.com wrote: > I said: > > > I was thinking of making an attempt at the 4-panel dress Robin described, > > >Rebecca said: > >Is there a pattern for this sort of dress anywhere? Or is this one of those > >"do it yourself" type things? As I am trying to do this sort of thing on my > >own with no real experience, without any helpers (my hubby will do hems, but > >that's about it!) a pattern really helps! Hi, I missed this the first time around. I have never found a pattern successful for this, if by "pattern" you mean a piece of paper (or specific measurements) that you use to guide your cutting of the shape of the fabric pieces. This construction (at least as I do it) relies heavily on stretch and distortion of the fabric under pressure -- something paper doesn't do. What with all the manipulation, I've found the final shapes of the pieces are too idiosyncratic to predict with a pattern. You can't draft something up just from measurements, as the act of wearing the dress will change the body's angles (and some of the distances) substantially. There's also a lot of variation in the behavior of different fabrics, so even two dresses for the same person can end up having different angles and proportions on the pieces. However, if you mean just a rough guide to the number and shapes of the cut pieces, to be refined and fitted on the person, that's easy enough. I sketched the body piece in ASCII in an earlier post. You'll have four of those, plus gores (sides, plus back or front as your figure and the fabric require) and sleeves. I don't *cut* the body pieces in that shape to begin with, however. I cut them very roughly to start, leaving at least three inches of seam allowance from the hips up, and do the rest on the body. I always start by shaping the back seam to match the spine -- something I can only do on the person. When people ask me for patterns, I like to point out that there's no evidence of pattern use in the 14th century. Working patternless is fundamentally different from working with a pattern. As a friend of mine put it (after I made her a dress), "With patterns, we cut it out, sew it together, then fit it. Before patterns, they fit it, then sewed it together, then cut it out." That's slightly oversimplified, but that's pretty close to the mark. The results of working this way are substantially different. I think I'm getting closer results to what was done then by using a technique that's more likely similar to theirs. > I'm not using a pattern; I plan to make it up first in some hideous and > cheap fabric, then use that for a pattern. Or maybe as a base for some of > the adjustments Robin referred to, to get other silhouettes. Mockups are a good idea, but you should try to find a fabric that matches the weight and stretch (on bias and grain) of your final fabric. A mockup in cotton bedsheet won't give you much to go on for a dress in wool. I don't do mockups anymore; I just fit the lining first and then use that as my guide to cutting the outer layer. In a sense, the lining is my "mockup." I've been known to hack the shoulder or armhole or something off a lining piece and replace it with fresh fabric so I could recut the problem part. It won't show when you're done! Just be sure to make your cut on the grain, and match the grain angle of the replacement piece exactly to the grain of the lining. Instead of a regular seam, overlap the new piece about 1/2 inch and sew the raw edges flat with zigzag. This won't interfere with stretch. All this is just my own approach, and I'm putting it out here for whatever help it can be to others, not to dictate how I think things ought to be done. I'm sure every person on this list who tries this dress will find a slightly different way to accomplish what s/he wants. We're all experimenting. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 00:57:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27105 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:57:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA10052; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:11:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA27067 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:09:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27061 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:09:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.52] (sdts10-52.znet.net [207.167.66.52]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id XAA18498 for ; Wed, 29 Sep 1999 23:09:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990929211135.007bdbf0@antir.com> References: <37E7BBA1.65A4@uvm.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 22:57:22 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: What kind of pleats would these be? Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: Kris > >I found this pic, and it looks like what I am trying to achieve.. at least >in the pleating skirt to bodice part.. How would I do this? They look like >knife pleats, but I'm not sure. I think they could be box pleats. each pleat is like this: _________ _________ \ / \ / ----\ /-------\ /---------- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 02:38:32 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA23525 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 02:38:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA14729; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:52:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA05749 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:50:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from web608.mail.yahoo.com (web608.mail.yahoo.com [128.11.68.172]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA05741 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 01:50:36 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <19990930075038.17028.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [207.225.35.205] by web608.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:50:38 PDT Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 00:50:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Valerie Robertson Subject: H-COST: Re: Fram-Air-Filter Hat To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Valerie Robertson Regardless of whether the van der Weyden painting is allegorical, I recently saw a quote from a contemporary source complaining about the "young virgins" wrapping great quantities of linen bandages around their heads and how stupid the new fashion looked (proving somebody besides Mary Magdalen was doing it). I will look for it tomorrow and post particulars when I find it. Valerie R. --- Merouda the True of Beaumaris wrote: > > -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > > I'm assuming you mean the Fram Air Filter Hat on > Mary Madgalen by Rogier van der > Weyden. Simplicity has this exact hat in a pattern > right now. I personally > wouldn't wear this hat because it's allegorical, not > accurate but hey, you can > find a complete instruction guide on the pattern. > :) > > A favor? Please include more information in your > replies (or a quote from the > original post) because it's hard to tell what it is > you're asking about. :) > Cynthia > > Kwhykelly@aol.com wrote: > > > -Poster: Kwhykelly@aol.com > > > > Hi again, missed the lurker's day so I'm making up > for it today. > > > > Looking at the hat in the picture, it looks like a > strip of 3-4 inch cloth > > wrapped into a wheel. Would this be wired to keep > it together? Would I tac > > it in various spots? Also, what sort of fabric > would I use for it? Would I be > > able to cheat and use that fancy wired ribbon in > white satin or a brocade? > > > > Also, the woman is wearing her hair down under > this, is this only a style for > > young women/maidens, or is this a common style for > women of all ages. > > > > Thanks > > > > Kristi Kelly > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > > -- > Cynthia Long > Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of An Tir > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to > majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 03:19:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23552 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 03:19:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA17098; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 02:33:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA08972 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 02:31:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp2.erols.com (smtp2.erols.com [207.172.3.235]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA08966 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 02:31:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: from e4c2n6 (207-172-55-102.s102.tnt8.rcm.va.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.55.102]) by smtp2.erols.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id EAA14827 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:33:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <02f301bf0b1d$d0172c80$32f4accf@e4c2n6> From: "Penny Ladnier" To: "h-costume" Subject: H-COST: The Ball has Begun Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:28:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Penny Ladnier" It is Sept. 30th and the Online Costume Ball '99 is in progress, http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/attend.htm. Currently, the Ball is as large as last years. This year's Ball will be 2-3 times larger than last year. We will be adding guests throughout the month of October. Near the end of October, we will choose our Court. We are happy to announce that this year we have added some reference links about some of the costumes or historic events at the bottom of the webpages. We hope to encourage our visitors to read more about the events or time periods. Have a Blast at the Ball! Penny (Keeper of the Ball) http://www.costumegallery.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 05:09:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23721 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 05:09:53 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA21156; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:24:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA11308 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:22:16 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from out5.prserv.net (out5.prserv.net [165.87.194.243]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA11164; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 04:20:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from lgreene (slip139-92-73-86.par.fr.ibm.net [139.92.73.86]) by out5.prserv.net (/) with SMTP id KAA68180; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:20:05 GMT From: "LGreene" To: , , , , , , , Subject: H-COST: Gilded Age Tours New Website! Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:33:09 +0200 Message-ID: <003301bf0b2d$e41860e0$91495c8b@lgreene> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "LGreene" Hi all, Gilded Age Tours' Web site at http://www.gildedagetours.com has a whole new look to go with our new focus. We are now doing custom-designed tours of Paris and France specializing in: - vintage clothing, textiles & lace; - swing & vintage dance; - historic reenactment; - personal shopping; and - wine tasting You pick the dates, tell us your interests and budget, and together we'll create the tour of your dreams! Mix and match your interests: vintage shopping and walking tours during the day, swing dancing at night, even excursions outside of Paris to Champagne, the Loire Valley chateaux, Normandy, Versailles - it's all possible, and AT REASONABLE PRICES! NEWS FLASH: spend the Millenium New Year's Eve in Paris, with a 5-day tour that includes the fabulous King's Ball at Versailles - reasonably priced, but space is very limited - contact us TODAY - on the web site at http://www.gildedagetours.com/millenium.htm Please visit our web site at http://www.gildedagetours.com for full information, or contact me at info@gildedagetours.com or 1-877-261-1500 and we'll send you an information packet. Also contact me to be placed on our emailing list for news and site updates. Looking forward to hearing from you soon - à bientot! Best regards, Lauriann Greene President, Gilded Age Tours --------------------------------------------- Gilded Age Tours: http://www.gildedagetours.com Custom-Designed Tours of Paris and France, including Flea Market Tours, Personal Shopping, and Wine Tasting/French Wine Country Tours. Room still available on our Millenium New Year's Eve at Versailles Tour of Paris! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 05:57:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23791 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 05:57:50 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23158; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 05:12:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA15404 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 05:10:28 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA15396 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 05:10:26 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JGKX8RRJGW0067UG@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:15:34 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JGKX831JFI005W1I@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:08:31 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:01:08 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:01:00 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:00:56 +1100 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:00:56 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-Costume Least-favourite styles (WAS: H-COST: New FO) In-reply-to: <199909300120.TAA18511@net.indra.com> To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <59B144F596A@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 > - -Poster: Appin1@aol.com > I have finished a 1699 mantua and fontage. Congratulations > While I think this is probably the single most unattractive garment > ever designed for women, I couldn't agree more. It is my *least* favourite style of female dress. My least favourite style of men's are tied between two. One is the CharlesII period with "petticoat breeches and the waist of the "coats" so high that the shirt puffs out around the middle, the other is "sweep-away" coats of the 17... er... 1790's (??), which *always* make me think of an attempt at a frock-coat but without enough fabric to make the skirts properly full..... After about the 1840's mens clothes become too dull for me to be interested in them. Anyone else have any periods/styles they just *can't stand*? Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 07:34:33 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24102 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:34:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29028; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 06:48:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA24752 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 06:46:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from komarr.local.thibault.org (adsl-151-197-16-76.bellatlantic.net [151.197.16.76]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA24741 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 06:46:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from thibault.org (weatherwax.local.thibault.org [192.168.10.16]) by komarr.local.thibault.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA25441 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:45:57 -0400 Message-ID: <37F35B86.252FE121@thibault.org> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:46:52 -0400 From: Cynthia Virtue Organization: Virtue Ventures http://www.virtue.to X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Fram-Air-Filter Hat References: <19990930075038.17028.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Cynthia Virtue Although it could also apply to the turbanesque linen headwraps as well as the Air Filter style, if it doesn't specify the width of those "linen bandages." I look forward to more info! Valerie Robertson wrote: > > -Poster: Valerie Robertson > > Regardless of whether the van der Weyden painting is > allegorical, I recently saw a quote from a > contemporary source complaining about the "young > virgins" wrapping great quantities of linen bandages > around their heads and how stupid the new fashion > looked (proving somebody besides Mary Magdalen was > doing it). I will look for it tomorrow and post > particulars when I find it. -- There's opinion, and there's fact. You can't have an opinion about a fact, because it *is*. Your opinion doesn't change it. If you deal with an opinion, a fact can validate it or prove it false. -- an unknown seminary lecturer _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 07:43:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA24115 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:43:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA29852; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 06:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA25784 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 06:56:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from april.dnaco.net (april.dnaco.net [207.238.206.9]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA25773; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 06:56:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from kirk.dnaco.net (aleed@kirk.dnaco.net [207.238.206.3]) by april.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA22789; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:56:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (aleed@localhost) by kirk.dnaco.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA20014; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:56:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kirk.dnaco.net: aleed owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:56:33 -0400 (EDT) From: aleed To: h-costume@indra.com cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-Costume Least-favourite styles (WAS: H-COST: New FO) In-Reply-To: <59B144F596A@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: aleed > > Anyone else have any periods/styles they just *can't stand*? Hmm...1820s & 30s, with those astoundingly huge sleeves and over-the-top decoration, is some of the silliest looking dress I've ever seen. I don't like the Cavalier look much either; it's the only style I've seen that can make a woman gain 20 visual pounds just by putting it on. Otherwise, I pretty much like it all. :) Drea > > Teddy > (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of > air and darkness, apparently!) > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 08:08:13 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA24165 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:08:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA02091; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:22:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA28801 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:20:34 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com (imo23.mx.aol.com [198.81.17.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28794 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:20:32 -0600 (MDT) From: AlbertCat@aol.com Received: from AlbertCat@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6MQGa05746 (3999) for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:19:57 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <26e0ce2d.2524bd7c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:19:56 EDT Subject: Re: H-Costume Least-favourite styles (WAS: H-COST: New FO) To: h-costume@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 26 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: AlbertCat@aol.com In a message dated 09/30/1999 8:59:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, aleed@dnaco.net writes: << Hmm...1820s & 30s, with those astoundingly huge sleeves and over-the-top decoration, is some of the silliest looking dress I've ever seen. >> You need to see the 1830s gowns in the catalogue "The Evolution of Fashion". Nothing silly about them. Besides, real things never look as silly as in fashion plates. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 09:11:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24260 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:11:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08186; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:24:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA09523 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:22:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mhub.AXP.MDX.AC.UK (mhub.axp.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.6.11]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09517 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:22:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) id <01JGL408UA5C000055@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:27:32 BST Received: from mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (mdx-ref1.mdx.ac.uk [158.94.57.8]) by mdx.ac.uk (PMDF V5.2-32 #37790) with ESMTP id <01JGL3WAI28400004V@mdx.ac.uk> for h-costume-digest@indra.com; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:20:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from MDX-REF1/SpoolDir by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:12:46 +1100 Received: from SpoolDir by MDX-REF1 (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:28:24 +1100 Received: from bg-lib-01157 (158.94.53.126) by mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:28:14 +1100 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:28:14 +0000 (GMT) From: teddy1 Subject: H-COST: 16thCen bodices not matching skirts... To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Message-id: <59D894E2E1D@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Organization: Middlesex University MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.01d) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: teddy1 I can't remember who was originally asking about this but it seems to have taken off as a subject of interest. There are a couple of mismatched bodices and skirts on the figures in the "Fete at Bermondsey" by Joris Hoefnagel... (I think I've heard it referred to as the "Wedding at Bermondsey too?) I've just seen a big (poster-sized) copy of it in a teaching pack on Tudor Life that is being catalogued here. Near the bottom right-hand corner (near the two fiddle players) is a woman in a blue bodice, red skirt and brown apron. Beside her (side-back view) is a woman with a pink bodice and a red skirt with what looks like the edge of a white apron showing at the front of the skirt, with strings around the waist. Teddy (Trustworthy Evil-Bunny of Destiny, part-time Knave and Creature of air and darkness, apparently!) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 09:13:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24273 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:13:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA08493; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:27:31 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA10083 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:25:44 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA10074 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:25:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p22.directcon.net [206.170.184.71]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA24183 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:24:26 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 07:24:26 -0700 Message-Id: <199909301424.HAA24183@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: Washing fur... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson Does it need to be washed because it has some Foul Substance on it, or is it just dirty and matted? If it's the second, I've had good luck with putting it in a big plastic trash bag with a box of cornmeal, shaking vigorously, and letting it sit for a day. Then take it out and throughly shake out the cornmeal. You may need to vaccuum it gently. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 09:18:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24286 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:18:31 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA09324; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:32:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA11107 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:30:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m2.jersey.juno.com (m2.jersey.juno.com [209.67.34.60]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA11096 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:30:35 -0600 (MDT) From: seamstrix@juno.com Received: (from seamstrix@juno.com) by m2.jersey.juno.com (queuemail) id EMR6S5RB; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:29:02 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume@indra.com Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:22:54 -0500 Subject: Re: H-COST: The Ball has Begun Message-ID: <19990930.092300.-742475.0.seamstrix@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 3.0.13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-5 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: seamstrix@juno.com All I can say is "Wow"! I am really impressed by the quality and detail in this year's entries, and Penny isn't even done yet! I can see that I will be checking back with the Ball frequently. The pictures are so inspirational! I can just feel a Cavalier dress coming on! Karen _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 09:41:42 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24316 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:41:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA14710; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:55:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA17310 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:53:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA17300; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:53:51 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:53:51 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909301453.IAA17300@net.indra.com> From: "Wilson, Brad" To: "'h-costume@indra.com'" Subject: RE: H-COST: Washing fur... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Wilson, Brad" >Does it need to be washed because it has some Foul Substance on it, or is it > just dirty and matted? If it's the second, I've had good luck with putting You can generally use any something like tide to wash it, as long as it was tanned properly. Once the fur is tanned, it is pretty much good to go, just watch out if you wash it to much you may wash the oil out of the leather, and that is what makes it soft and pliable (I am a taxidermist, BTW). You can also purchase fur cleaning materials from a taxidermy shop (you don't need a license or anything) and use that. If it is a white fur that got dirty, try using the old lady hair whitener, just wash it on, then rinse (otherwise it will turn it 'old lady' blue). Taxidermy supply shops also sell a whitener that works well. You can see one online at www.taxidermy.net or www.wasco.net (I believe that is right). I get most of my supplies from them, and they are nice to do business with. Brad _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 10:27:24 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24467 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:27:23 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24193; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:40:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA29958 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:39:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA29948 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:39:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA12254; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:39:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F38493.BDC14694@serv.net> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:41:07 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How to reproduce the hat?: was Raglan sleeves References: <000f01bf0aed$4fd2b880$dc0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Drea identified a second source for this hat in the de Heere > water colors of Irish people, late 1500's--1570's as I > remember. I know deHeere and the painting. But I would hesitate to say that the two hats are the same. DeHeere's painting doesn't have enough detail to say either way. The shape is the same, round disk-ish but I would hesitate to make any further correlation myself. Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 10:37:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24486 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:37:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26040; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:51:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA02558 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:47:56 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: (from eliz@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA02543; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:47:54 -0600 (MDT) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:47:54 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199909301547.JAA02543@net.indra.com> From: Lyssa@mgram.com To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: re: duct tape double / men Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Lyssa@mgram.com I did brown paper tape doubles last year for my boyfriend and another gentleman as well as for 4 women. They are actually easier than fitting for women. The most important thing to consider is the clothing worn on the lower portion of the torso. Blue jeans are just too bulky to get a good fit and next time I'll remember to get him to take out the wallet. The other thing to consider is what the lower garments are doing to the extra flesh in the waist area. Jeans tend to create their own spare tire effect even if the gentleman has only a small amount of extra in that area. If possible, use a really long t-shirt and avoid binding short or pants and you'll get a more accurate form. Daniel's was just a quick experiment, but came out very nicely even with the blue jean and wallet bulges. The second gentleman's came out much better. I think the biggest difference in doing the men was in the amount of time it took in the chest area. The ladies were mostly large breasted and it took some time to get the chest area to look right. The men had less soft tissue to worry about squishing out of shape. Oh, and the gentleman tended to be more self conscious about their form while being wrapped so an audience makes the process much more difficult. I was doing a class and we finished 5 doubles in 5 hours with a few hours later to finish firming up the shapes and to mount them for use. In this rather public scene, the men would refuse to stand still for too long without a bit of posturing and the ladies were mostly okay until they saw the finished forms. I think 3 swore to join Weight Watchers the minute they saw their forms. I'm still using the test form for Daniel for holding the garments while pinning although I need to make a more accurate one for actual fitting. I haven't tried the duct tape version, but using the instructions on the duct tape double web site (sorry I don't have the address to hand but I'm sure its been posted recently) and the instructions in Threads, the brown paper version came out very nice. My pins don't get gummed up and the forms are very light. The only thing I'd definitely do differently is make sure the t-shirts fit more closely to the bodies and do all the additional reinforcing on the inside of the doubles to avoid adding extra bulk to the outside of the forms. Hope that helps! Maggie Griggs p.s. I missed the delurking day, but I'll post today to make up. H->------------------------------ H->From: "Franchesca Havas" H->Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 19:55:08 -0500 H->Subject: Re: H-COST: Duct Tape Double / Men H->- -Poster: "Franchesca Havas" H->I have a friend that is in the process of doing one for himself. I will ask H->him about it and forward him your email if you like. H->Sincerely, H->F. Havas H->Dallas, Texas H->motto: Numquam scribae ridente fide H->- ----- Original Message ----- H->From: Kevin & Mara Riley H->To: Costume List H->Sent: Monday, September 27, 1999 1:37 PM H->Subject: H-COST: Duct Tape Double / Men H->: H->: -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley H->: H->: Has anyone here made a Duct Tape Double for men? I think it's going to be H->: necessary so that I can get a proper fit for my DH's kit, without driving H->: him nuts with repeated fittings. Other than the obvious (no foundation H->: garments), what is different from doing this for women? H->: H->: -- Mara H->------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 10:37:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24488 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:37:55 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA26039; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:51:49 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA03079 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:49:43 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA03047 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:49:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id IAA12702; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F38710.1AF675E7@serv.net> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 08:51:44 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: Re: Fram-Air-Filter Hat References: <19990930075038.17028.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Regardless of whether the van der Weyden painting is > allegorical, I recently saw a quote from a > contemporary source complaining about the "young > virgins" wrapping great quantities of linen bandages > around their heads and how stupid the new fashion > looked As the other Cynthia mentioned, this could mean the turbans that were being worn at the time. I find the written word to be sometimes not sufficient in describing a particular style. I guess I would rather see a picture than assume that linen bandages wrapped around the head was the same as linen rolled into a tight roll and set precariously on top of the head. Just my $.02 worth, Cynthia -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 11:09:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24511 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:09:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01621; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:22:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA12139 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:21:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12129 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p39.directcon.net [206.170.184.88]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA04546 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:19:45 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:19:45 -0700 Message-Id: <199909301619.JAA04546@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-COST: 16thCen bodices not matching skirts... Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson > >There are a couple of mismatched bodices and skirts on the figures >in the "Fete at Bermondsey" by Joris Hoefnagel... (I think I've heard >it referred to as the "Wedding at Bermondsey too?) Okay, I've been hearing about this painting for years, and I've never mananged to locate a copy. It's not on the Web. Can anyone tell me the title of a book in which I can find a decent copy, hopefully one which I can get from ILL? Failing that, Teddy, do you recall a price on that poster version? I assume it's not available in the US, but perhaps we could work something out? Margo Anderson "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 11:22:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24533 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:22:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA03839; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:35:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16008 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:34:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [209.246.15.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16000 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:34:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA19730 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:34:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id JAA18503; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:34:05 -0700 Message-ID: <37F390E6.13D0DCC4@us.oracle.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:33:42 -0400 From: Elizabeth Jones Organization: Oracle Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume Subject: H-COST: Italian Camora/Gamurra Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F7AC71D19584C174C4EE841C" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Jones This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F7AC71D19584C174C4EE841C Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A6D99F18115A3C66A5613470" --------------A6D99F18115A3C66A5613470 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - -Poster: Kris wrote " I found this pic, and it looks like what I am trying to achieve.. at least in the pleating skirt to bodice part.. How would I do this? They look like knife pleats, but I'm not sure. http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/images/High.Italian.Rena issance/CJ09.jpg" I have made several camora/gamurra like this. Skirt attachment (pleating) and sleeve style can vary, although they are all similar. This is one of the plainer styles and great for real work! I wear this garment camping a lot at SCA. You can do knife pleats or cartridge pleating. Looking at similar examples Triumph of Venus and the Sign of Taurus: Allegory of Month of April by Franceso dell Cossa (1470). http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/search.cgi?author=COSSA%2C+Francesco+del&time=any&school=any&form=any&type=any&title=&comment= Woman sitting with back to viewer has wider pleating (2" I guess) and obviously maintained to the hip via taping on the inside (see rolled pleat discussion earlier). I cannot say if these were rolled pleats, but look like very deep knife or box pleats to me. I used deep knife pleats (about 1:3) when I did this myself. I actually like doing cartridge pleating better than flat/knife pleats. It seems to take less time to get things even (although when I first started I kept running out of either pleats or fabric!). With all the discussion of cartridge vs. rolled/organ pleating recently, I am starting to doubt all of my previous cartridge assumptions. However, I cannot find evidence of any seams or trapezoidal shapes in any women's dresses of the 1450-1500 period. With all the detail and seams that are visible in these portraits, I would expect to see evidence if it was done. I normally construct dresses of this period with a rectangular skirt Other pictures of pleating: The interior of a house by Fra Carnevale (can't find image) The Madonna di Senigallia by Pietro della Francesca (1470) http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/search.cgi?author=PIERO+della+FRANCESCA&time=any&school=any&form=any&type=any&title=Madonna&comment= Hope this helps! Liz Jones P.S. Hope, thanks for the advisory on the simar/caftan problem! I can happily go back to trusting my instincts. never having seen an extant item being presented in the Italian Renaissance period before, and then to have it look like THAT, made we wonder what was going on! BTW, does anyone know of any extant pieces from the Italian Renaissance (except for underwear and Eleonora's clothing? I was wondering more about pre 1540... --------------A6D99F18115A3C66A5613470 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - -Poster: Kris <i.wonder@L7.net> wrote

" I found this pic, and it looks like what I am trying to achieve.. at least
in the pleating skirt to bodice part.. How would I do this? They look like
knife pleats, but I'm not sure.

http://ps.theatre.tulane.edu/Period.Styles/Costumes/images/High.Italian.Rena
issance/CJ09.jpg"

I have made several camora/gamurra like this. Skirt attachment (pleating) and sleeve style can vary, although they are all similar. This is one of the plainer styles and great for real work! I wear this garment camping a lot at SCA.

You can do knife pleats or cartridge pleating. Looking at similar examples

Triumph of Venus and the Sign of Taurus: Allegory of Month of April by Franceso dell Cossa (1470).

http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/search.cgi?author=COSSA%2C+Francesco+del&time=any&school=any&form=any&type=any&title=&comment=

Woman sitting with back to viewer has wider pleating (2" I guess) and obviously maintained to the hip via taping on the inside (see rolled pleat discussion earlier). I cannot say if these were rolled pleats, but look like very deep knife or box pleats to me. I used deep knife pleats (about 1:3) when I did this myself.

I actually like doing cartridge pleating better than flat/knife pleats. It seems to take less time to get things even (although when I first started I kept running out of either pleats or fabric!). With all the discussion of cartridge vs. rolled/organ pleating recently, I am starting to doubt all of my previous cartridge assumptions. However, I cannot find evidence of any seams or trapezoidal shapes in any women's dresses of the 1450-1500 period. With all the detail and seams that are visible in these portraits, I would expect to see evidence if it was done. I normally construct dresses of this period with a rectangular skirt

Other pictures of pleating: The interior of a house by Fra Carnevale (can't find image)

The Madonna di Senigallia by Pietro della Francesca (1470)

http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/search.cgi?author=PIERO+della+FRANCESCA&time=any&school=any&form=any&type=any&title=Madonna&comment=
 

Hope this helps!

Liz Jones

P.S. Hope, thanks for the advisory on the simar/caftan problem! I can happily go back to trusting my instincts. never having seen an extant item being presented in the Italian Renaissance period before, and then to have it look like THAT, made we wonder what was going on!

BTW, does anyone know of any extant pieces from the Italian Renaissance (except for underwear and Eleonora's clothing? I was wondering more about pre 1540... --------------A6D99F18115A3C66A5613470-- --------------F7AC71D19584C174C4EE841C Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="ljones.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Elizabeth Jones Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ljones.vcf" begin:vcard n:;Elizabeth Jones x-mozilla-html:FALSE adr;dom;quoted-printable:;;Oracle Corporation =0D=0A100 Summit Lake Drive;Valhalla;NY;10595; org:Global Networks version:2.1 email;internet:ljones@us.oracle.com title:Senior Project Manager tel;fax:203-267-5856 tel;work:914-773-8169 x-mozilla-cpt:;0 fn:Elizabeth Jones end:vcard --------------F7AC71D19584C174C4EE841C-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 11:26:19 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24537 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:26:19 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04884; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:40:21 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA17329 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:38:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from apollo.directcon.net (IDENT:root@apollo.directcon.net [206.170.184.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA17320 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:38:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: from DNYEAQVF (r4p39.directcon.net [206.170.184.88]) by apollo.directcon.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA06423 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:37:19 -0700 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 09:37:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199909301637.JAA06423@apollo.directcon.net> X-Sender: margo@directcon.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume@indra.com From: Margo Anderson Subject: Re: H-Costume Least-favourite styles (WAS: H-COST: New FO) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Margo Anderson My least favorite style is those Spanish Infanta dresses with the enourmous rectangular panniers, that make the wearer look like an ambulatory sofa. Margo "One Tough Costumer" http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 11:32:29 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24543 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:32:28 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06046; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:46:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA18947 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:44:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mx20.rmci.net (saturn.rmci.net [205.162.184.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA18913 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:44:07 -0600 (MDT) Received: (qmail 20585 invoked from network); 30 Sep 1999 13:43:02 -0000 Received: from pag-di102.rica.net (HELO rica.net) (209.211.110.102) by mx20.rmci.net with SMTP; 30 Sep 1999 13:43:02 -0000 Message-ID: <37F39245.2A267F3B@rica.net> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:39:34 -0400 From: Jennie Chancey X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com CC: vintage@indra.com, Wearable Art Subject: H-COST: Latest Issue of Smithsonian has neat stuff References: <000301beb1cb$9c1bd620$1030e7d0@annaoftderturm> <375D44BE.F38870C@tymeportal.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Jennie Chancey If you are able to get hold of a copy of the October 1999 _Smithsonian_, take a look on page 30 for a great article on a couple who are into medieval reenacting, making their own armor, clothing, etc. Then turn over to page 95 for a fantastic black and white shot of a 1931 Paris shop window full of corsets. It also shows off the things worn under corsets. There is even a child's mannequin wearing stays. Have fun! Cheers, Jennie Chancey -- Sense and Sensibility http://www.sensibility.com winsome clothing with an old-fashioned appeal _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 11:42:53 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24549 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:42:52 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA08001; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:56:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA21510 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:54:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.vci.net (smtp.vci.net [207.162.160.12]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21498 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:54:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from vci.net (ppp-169-8.vci.net [207.162.169.8] (may be forged)) by smtp.vci.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id LAA29085 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:54:48 -0500 Message-ID: <37F3967F.BB788CE9@vci.net> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:57:36 -0500 From: "schuck@vci.net" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en,fr-FR,de,ru,es-AR,sv MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: re: duct tape double / men References: <199909301549.JAA03026@net.indra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "schuck@vci.net" Where do you find the brown paper tape at? I haven't seen it anywhere. jb _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 11:46:35 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24553 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:46:34 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA08755; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:00:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA22381 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:58:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from postal.grin.net (root@postal.grin.net [209.104.220.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA22368 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:58:37 -0600 (MDT) From: lilinah@grin.net Received: from [208.225.99.72] (ppp72.creative.net [208.225.99.72]) by postal.grin.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01703 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:01:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: lilinah@mail.grin.net Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199909301637.JAA06423@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:06:00 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-Costume Least-favourite styles (WAS: H-COST: New FO) Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: lilinah@grin.net My least favorite style is the bustle dress of the 1870's and 1880's, especially the ones that have a very narrow skirt decorated with "garlands" of trim. It isn't the "big butt" of the bustle that bothers me. I don't like these dresses from the front. I think panniers are fascinating. In fact, i am intrigued by the idea of bizzare understructures (like the bustle and the pannier) that radically alter the human form, without having to actually go through surgery or extreme eating habits - a sort of wearable architecture. Lilinah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 11:49:34 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24557 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:49:33 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA09262; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:02:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA22997 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:01:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail1.radix.net (mail1.radix.net [207.192.128.31]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA22984 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:01:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from saltmine.radix.net (saltmine.radix.net [207.192.128.40]) by mail1.radix.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA24597 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:00:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:00:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Kevin & Mara Riley To: Costume List Subject: Re: H-COST: re: duct tape double / men In-Reply-To: <199909301547.JAA02543@net.indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Kevin & Mara Riley Thanks, Lyssa! That helps a great deal. -- Mara On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 Lyssa@mgram.com wrote: > > -Poster: Lyssa@mgram.com > > I did brown paper tape doubles last year for my boyfriend and another > gentleman as well as for 4 women. They are actually easier than fitting > for women. (snip) _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 11:53:45 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24563 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:53:42 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA10082; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:07:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA24269 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:05:58 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [209.246.15.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA24250 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:05:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id KAA01919 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id KAA14053; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:05:51 -0700 Message-ID: <37F39859.54DB2168@us.oracle.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:05:29 -0400 From: Elizabeth Jones Organization: Oracle Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume Subject: H-COST: Gamurra pleats Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Jones Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: Kris > >I found this pic, and it looks like what I am trying to achieve.. at least >in the pleating skirt to bodice part.. How would I do this? They look like >knife pleats, but I'm not sure. Julie said: I think they could be box pleats. Each pleat is like this: _________ _________ \ / \ / - ----\ /-------\ /---------- ----- Oh, I wanted to add about these pleats (to my previous long reply): They look like box pleats, as do my own knife pleats. I originally tried box pleats with this dress, but could not get the pleats full enough to provide that kind of volume, and yet not go beyond about 2" across. So I did this peculiar knife pleat: fold twice the width (about 4" across) in one direction, and then double back over itself. This ends up looking like a box pleat on the outside, but a knife pleat on the inside. I did not attach an inside tape at the hip, but looking at the portraits now may go back and do that. My pleats spread a little open at the top, and it would look better if they continued down a bit. (Trying to remember to get rid of the attachments!) Liz Jones _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 12:01:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24578 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:01:18 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11252; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:14:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25742 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:11:40 -0600 (MDT) Received: from deliverator.io.com (root@deliverator.io.com [199.170.88.17]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25729 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:11:38 -0600 (MDT) From: ches@io.com Received: from fnord.io.com (IDENT:ches@fnord.io.com [199.170.88.12]) by deliverator.io.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA32346 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:11:37 -0500 Received: from localhost (ches@localhost) by fnord.io.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA14958 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:11:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: fnord.io.com: ches owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:11:37 -0500 (CDT) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: duct tape double / men In-Reply-To: <37F3967F.BB788CE9@vci.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: ches@io.com Tanton press had it up at one time but theirs was a paper mache one. i saved the article they had online cause I figured it would not be up for long. It was in one of thier Threads issue last year. Sincerely, F. Havas ches@io.com On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, schuck@vci.net wrote: > Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:57:36 -0500 > From: "schuck@vci.net" > Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com > To: h-costume-digest@indra.com > Subject: H-COST: re: duct tape double / men > > > -Poster: "schuck@vci.net" > > Where do you find the brown paper tape at? I haven't seen it anywhere. > jb > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 12:18:51 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24585 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:18:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA13771; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:32:39 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA00554 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:30:52 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from cats.ucsc.edu (rumpleteazer.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.45]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA00545 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:30:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: from ese.UCSC.EDU (IDENT:31907@ese.UCSC.EDU [128.114.129.43]) by cats.ucsc.edu (8.9.3/8.8.4.cats-athena) with ESMTP id KAA17874 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from ariyana@localhost) by ese.UCSC.EDU (8.8.8/8.8.8.cats-client) id KAA19843; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:30:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:30:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Ariyana Kylstram X-Sender: ariyana@ese.UCSC.EDU To: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Cleaning fur In-Reply-To: <199909300120.TAA18511@net.indra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Ariyana Kylstram Local drycleaners should be able to send your fur away for cleaning if they don't have the capabilities to do them there. .ari The Lady Ariyana of House Kylstram ariyana@cats.ucsc.edu http://www.kithrup.com/~ariyana/ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 12:48:15 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24633 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:48:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA17533; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:01:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA07374 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:59:15 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA07363 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:59:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990930175910.ELBD14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 10:59:10 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:03:01 -0700 Subject: Re: H-COST: The Ball has Begun From: "R.L. Shep" To: h-costume@indra.com Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990930175910.ELBD14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" Anyone else having trouble with this URL? It comes up *not found* for me. I copied and pasted it so it was not a matter of mis-typing it. ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com ---------- >From: "Penny Ladnier" >To: "h-costume" >Subject: H-COST: The Ball has Begun >Date: Thu, Sep 30, 1999, 1:28 AM > > >-Poster: "Penny Ladnier" > >It is Sept. 30th and the Online Costume Ball '99 is in progress, >http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/attend.htm. Currently, the >Ball is as large as last years. This year's Ball will be 2-3 times larger >than last year. We will be adding guests throughout the month of October. >Near the end of October, we will choose our Court. > >We are happy to announce that this year we have added some reference links >about some of the costumes or historic events at the bottom of the webpages. >We hope to encourage our visitors to read more about the events or time >periods. > >Have a Blast at the Ball! >Penny >(Keeper of the Ball) >http://www.costumegallery.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 13:03:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24654 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:03:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19474; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:17:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA10804 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:13:27 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from vortex.engr.washington.edu (vortex.engr.washington.edu [128.95.19.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA10794 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:13:25 -0600 (MDT) Received: from serv.net by vortex.engr.washington.edu (8.8.7/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id LAA18980; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F3A8BF.1197B410@serv.net> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:15:28 -0700 From: Merouda the True of Beaumaris X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: The Ball has Begun References: <19990930175910.ELBD14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris Hmmm, I had no trouble. But then I just click on it in my mail/browser. Cynthia > Anyone else having trouble with this URL? > It comes up *not found* for me. I copied and pasted it so it was not a > matter of mis-typing it. > > >It is Sept. 30th and the Online Costume Ball '99 is in progress, > >http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/attend.htm. -- Cynthia Long Merouda the True of Beaumaris Barony of Madrone Kingdom of An Tir _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 13:24:12 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24672 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:24:11 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22655; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:37:57 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA15995 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:36:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from public.ndh.com (public.ndh.net [194.97.97.21]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA15959 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:35:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from Andrea (port055.koeln.ndh.net [195.94.92.55]) by public.ndh.com (8.8.7/8.8.0) with ESMTP id UAA00831 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:35:54 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <37F21F13.BC2AD9EE@ndh.net> Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 15:15:48 +0100 From: Andrea Clef X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [de] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "h-costume@indra.com" Subject: H-COST: Least favourite style X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------A622497E8E3CA47041A05D36" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Andrea Clef --------------A622497E8E3CA47041A05D36 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Hmm...1820s & 30s, with those astoundingly huge sleeves and over-the-top > decoration, is some of the silliest looking dress I've ever seen. > I don`t like that period either, the hairstyles are horrible to me, too.This period is called "Biedermeier" here in Germany, meaning the years 1820-1840. >From the 1840s on, the dresses become nicer again, I think. But I like most other period styles and would like to have at least one costume out of every one of them ;-). I think I should rebuild a whole house into a wardrobe ;-). Many greetings, Diana --------------A622497E8E3CA47041A05D36 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 

Hmm...1820s & 30s, with those astoundingly huge sleeves and over-the-top
decoration, is some of the silliest looking dress I've ever seen.
I don`t like that period either, the hairstyles are horrible to me, too.This period is called "Biedermeier" here in Germany, meaning the years 1820-1840.
From the 1840s on, the dresses become nicer again, I think.

But I like most other period styles and would like to have at least one costume out of every one of them ;-).
I think I should rebuild a whole house into a wardrobe ;-).

Many greetings,
Diana
  --------------A622497E8E3CA47041A05D36-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 13:41:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24706 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:41:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25804; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:54:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA20258 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:52:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20249 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:52:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA11441 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-91.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.91]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16219 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:52:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <000601bf0b76$2dc20640$a822fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: OT: Sewing Machine Parts Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 22:52:35 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >I don't need a machine, but I've got a small problem. I've got a Singer >cabinet machine from circa 1960 and it runs well. Unfortunately, one of the >hinges on the cabinet lid has broken. Does anyone have suggestions on where to >find a replacement hinge? Since you probably have already tried the hardware stores and Singer, I have one other suggestion. Call around to those small antique stores that refinish furniture. There is one around the corner from me and I always see them loading in antiques. It makes me wonder how much 'junk' they have sitting around, just waiting to find a home. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 14:01:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24729 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:01:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28850; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:13:22 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA24866 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:11:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com (imo-d06.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.38]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24845 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:11:18 -0600 (MDT) From: Gaelscot@aol.com Received: from Gaelscot@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v22.4.) id 6THK0so5JU (4316) for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:10:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <4b6871c9.25250fb0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:10:40 EDT Subject: H-COST: Re: costume ball To: h-costume-digest@indra.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Mac sub 189 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Gaelscot@aol.com I don't know if there's a problem with that long address or not, but if you use the simple address (www.costumegallery.com) you can get to the ball from the home page. Try that. Gail Finke PS: It's lots of fun! _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 14:09:27 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24735 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:09:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00524; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:22:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA27240 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:21:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sight.vcn.com (vcn.com [208.162.240.3]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27226 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:21:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (vcn29.pm3-1.gill.wy.vcn.com [208.162.240.48]) by sight.vcn.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA04801 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:21:01 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <00cb01bf0b79$50e20000$30f0a2d0@default> From: "Frank A Thallas Jr" To: References: <19990930175910.ELBD14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> <37F3A8BF.1197B410@serv.net> Subject: Re: H-COST: The Ball has Begun Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:23:36 -0600 Organization: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Frank A Thallas Jr" I had no trouble with the long address - and the Ball is looking absolutely great this year! Liadain > -Poster: Merouda the True of Beaumaris > > Hmmm, I had no trouble. But then I just click on it in my mail/browser. > Cynthia > > > Anyone else having trouble with this URL? > > It comes up *not found* for me. I copied and pasted it so it was not a > > matter of mis-typing it. > > > > >It is Sept. 30th and the Online Costume Ball '99 is in progress, > > >http://www.costumegallery.com/Costume_Ball/99/attend.htm. > > -- > Cynthia Long > Merouda the True of Beaumaris > Barony of Madrone > Kingdom of An Tir > > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME > _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 14:14:07 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24743 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:14:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA01001; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:27:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA28408 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:25:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.246]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA28396 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:25:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: from raiden.lightspeed.net (raiden.lightspeed.net [209.165.6.245]) by lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA24434 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:25:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gunsafes (209-165-57-91.lightspeed.net [209.165.57.91]) by raiden.lightspeed.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09750 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:25:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <004e01bf0b7a$e1362180$a822fea9@gunsafes> From: "Michelle" To: Subject: Re: H-COST: How to reproduce the hat?: was Raglan sleeves Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:34:56 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Michelle" >http://152.19.254.81/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg > >Well, first off, the dress she's seen wearing is her underdress, over >which would have gone a fashionable gown (as is indicated by the fancy >embroidered/brocaded sleeve). That isn't what I think I see. Her sleeve has a pin, which leads me to believe that the sleeves are not part of a dress but, pinned on to make her plain and sleeveless gown more fashionable. Michelle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 14:23:31 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24755 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:23:30 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02204; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:37:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA00847 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:35:19 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.18]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA00840 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:35:18 -0600 (MDT) From: sustre@pixelations.com Received: from [209.244.232.215] (dialup-209.244.232.215.Boston2.Level3.net [209.244.232.215]) by goose.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA08838 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:35:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: amanda@pixelations.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:39:15 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: 14th century Dress Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: sustre@pixelations.com A belated thanks, Robin, for your suggestion about wearing a sports bra for fitting! Wearing it for the initial satges, then not, sounds like just the thing. I may may make one for her daughter or a friend of hers first, just to get the basic idea. And the friend is beginning to learn to sew, with the hope of making costumes! While she's thinking Goth, I'm going to attmpt to indoctrinate her into historical- and maybe my daughter, too, will get infected. Thanks! -Amanda _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 14:42:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24811 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:42:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05166; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:55:08 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05244 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:53:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (imail@ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05210 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:53:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [24.9.58.36] by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <19990930195304.FGUN14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:53:04 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.0c (197) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:56:56 -0700 Subject: H-COST: costume ball From: "R.L. Shep" To: "h-costume" Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <19990930195304.FGUN14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36]> Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "R.L. Shep" Thanks to all of you who sugested that I leave out the *.* at the end. I should have known that but I didn't realize it was there. I got there. I love it. Congradulations Penny! ~!~ R.L.Shep http://www.rlshep.com _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 14:44:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24819 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:44:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05493; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:57:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA05791 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:55:33 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA05773 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:55:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.200]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:49:23 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: How to reproduce the hat?: was Raglan sleeves Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:51:50 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37f4bced.31397604@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <004e01bf0b7a$e1362180$a822fea9@gunsafes> In-Reply-To: <004e01bf0b7a$e1362180$a822fea9@gunsafes> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id NAA05777 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 12:34:56 -0700, the following was written in this electric book by "Michelle" : > >-Poster: "Michelle" > >>http://152.19.254.81/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg > >> >>Well, first off, the dress she's seen wearing is her underdress, over >>which would have gone a fashionable gown (as is indicated by the fancy >>embroidered/brocaded sleeve). > >That isn't what I think I see. Her sleeve has a pin, which leads me to >believe that the sleeves are not part of a dress but, pinned on to make her >plain and sleeveless gown more fashionable. Perhaps I wasn't clear. The pin is OBVIOUS, and had been mentioned before, so I didn't think it bore mentioning again. The seperate, decorative sleeves were pinned onto the underdress, then the more voluminous overdress, probably with some manner of open sleeve to show the decorative undersleeves, (houppelande or later developments thereof, this was painted during the transitional period when the more voluminous houp was turning into the high-waisted v-neck gown) would go over that. A poor woman would not even be allowed to own such costly fabric, let alone wear it, because of sumptuary laws. The 'undress' is an artistic device, used to show her mourning for Jesus, without the distressing facial contortions of ACTUAL mourning. Her face needed to be shown as serene and meditative because of her association with Christ - she is sad that he has died in such an unjust way, but because of her contact with him she is at peace. It really helps if you can see the rest of the altarpiece. It is absoultely necessary to consider such evidence Within Context. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 14:49:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA24823 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:49:14 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA06087; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:01:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA06732 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:59:21 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from p2.acadia.net (root@p2.acadia.net [205.217.210.2]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA06717 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 13:59:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [205.217.218.43] (ell57.acadia.net [205.217.218.41]) by p2.acadia.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA14126 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:09:08 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: pulliam@post.acadia.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: h-costume-digest@indra.com From: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) Subject: H-COST: wedding at Bermondsey Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: pulliam@acadia.net (Deborah Pulliam) <> The painting is in the collection of the Marquess of Salisbury at Hatfield House. There's at least one catalog of the collection in print. I believe the painting was also reproduced in The Elizabethan World, among others. Deborah _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 15:35:08 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24880 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:35:07 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14177; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:44:04 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA18245 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:43:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from Mail.austin.rr.com (sm2.texas.rr.com [24.93.35.55]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA18237 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 14:43:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from PENNY ([24.93.63.200]) by Mail.austin.rr.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1875.185.18); Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:37:27 -0500 From: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: re: duct tape double / men Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:39:55 GMT Organization: The Corner of my Desk Message-ID: <37f6c6ef.33959959@smtp-server.austin.rr.com> References: <199909301549.JAA03026@net.indra.com> <37F3967F.BB788CE9@vci.net> In-Reply-To: <37F3967F.BB788CE9@vci.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by net.indra.com id OAA18240 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: rio@austin.rr.com (StrangeGirl) On Thu, 30 Sep 1999 11:57:36 -0500, the following was written in this electric book by "schuck@vci.net" : > >-Poster: "schuck@vci.net" > >Where do you find the brown paper tape at? I haven't seen it anywhere. >jb Office Depot carries it in the mailing supplies section, about 5.00 US$ per roll. http://www.officedepot.com/ has it listed as follows: Office Supplies, Labels, Mailing Supplies >> Adhesives >>Tape, Dispensers and Refills >> Mail-Away Carton Sealing Gummed Tape it is 5.29 US$ per roll. This is what I use for making tape dummies (and patching boxes, building storage out of cardboard, etc...). YOu will need to come up with some method of securing your sponge in a basin, as it will beocme sticky enough to cling to the tape after awhile. I took a smallish square plastic tub and packed it with enough sponges to fill it (not too snug or they won't hold enough water for your project) and then rubber-banded them in with large postal-size rubber bands. YOu could also use a couple of those very small bungie cords, if your container is large enough. Margery "Do you have any files?" "We're the government, of course we have files." Millenium {*to reply take spambegone from my reply-to address*} _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 18:22:50 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25171 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:22:48 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10777; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:35:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29475 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:34:55 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29459 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:34:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.171] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Wpiq-000435-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:34:49 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924083939.00bcc280@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:47:23 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:recycling favorite In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Embroidered Victorian undersleeve, probably 1840's, teensy stitch eyelet embroidery, $3 at Goodwill (bought in 1960's) Large triangle lace shawl, mid-1800's for over hoops or 1920's mantilla, 10' wide x 5' deep, $5 at Salvation Army (bought in 1970's) Sterling silver sand-cast bracelet, Navaho, early-mid 1900's, 50 cents at Spring Vally Swap Meet (bought in 1970's) Brooch missing pin, gold band around oval opal (cracked) 1" x 1 1/2", $5 from antique dealer who thought stone was an agate (bought in 1970's) Also in that day's haul were three sterling silver Harvey (something - named after the tourist store) bracelets from like the 1930's, also @$5. each. (The antique store had pretensions and this was junk stuff to them, hauled out of the back in a cardboard box when I said I was looking for broken stuff for costume use...) 19-teens corset, awful shape, given me by dealer who decided she didn't want it anymore, Berryessa Flea Market (1980's) Perry Ellis printed linen jacket which fits me! $5 at Berryessa Flea Market (bought in 1980's) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 18:22:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25175 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:22:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10772; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:35:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA29467 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:34:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA29447 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:34:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.171] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11Wpio-000435-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:34:47 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924081015.00bc9880@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:16:09 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Rolled pleats...?? In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990924060816.00bd2ec0@pop.slip.net> <37E98CD7.B9372010@home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >>I used this vest as a model for a German Ren. skirt I did, stiffening the >>tops of each trapezoid before cartridge pleating, one trapezoid per pleat, >>and it stayed pleated, moved well, etc. It too weighed a ton. >> >> >>Kayta > >Technically each organ pipe pleat is a long narrow trapezoid. Are you sure >we aren't talking about the same thing? > >Julie Adams If you think we are, then we probably are. It's just that here in the middle of your discussion I realized I owned something very like what you were talking about. I always do better with an example, especially a 3-D example. On my vest, the pleats are just knocked down 'flat' (=almost half an inch) like knife pleats. Your method pinches the seams and flattens them out inside more like box pleats, yes? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 18:55:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25190 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:55:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA13993; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:09:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA04981 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:08:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.36.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA04969; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:08:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: from mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (mercury [129.127.36.44]) by adelphi.physics.adelaide.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8/UofA-1.5) with SMTP id JAA25257; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:38:50 +0930 (CST) Received: from localhost by mercury.physics.adelaide.edu.au (5.65v4.0/1.1.19.2/11Aug99-1220PM) id AA17901; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:38:50 +0930 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 09:38:49 +0930 (CST) From: The Purple Elephant To: h-costume@indra.com Cc: h-costume-digest@indra.com Subject: Re: H-Costume Least-favourite styles (WAS: H-COST: New FO) In-Reply-To: <59B144F596A@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: The Purple Elephant On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, teddy1 wrote: > > -Poster: teddy1 > > > > - -Poster: Appin1@aol.com > > > I have finished a 1699 mantua and fontage. > > Congratulations Yes, it sounds really lovely. > > > While I think this is probably the single most unattractive garment > > ever designed for women, > > I couldn't agree more. It is my *least* favourite style of female > dress. My least favourite style of men's are tied between two. One I absolutely adore mantuas...I guess there's no accounting for taste :-) > Anyone else have any periods/styles they just *can't stand*? After about 1911 I think clothes are sooo ugly for about 20 years. And between 1805-1835 - I think I'm the only person I know who doesn't like Regency clothes ('cept for the very very early part of that style). And things that I don't exactly hate but just think are silly...second bustle period and late Elizabethan (ie wheel farthingales). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Claire F. Clarke "What is this world if, full of care, Physicist, writer, We have no time to stand and stare?" and non environmentally Robert Louis Stevenson friendly substance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 18:56:17 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA25194 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:56:16 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA14121; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:09:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA05111 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:09:39 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from duval.se.mediaone.net (duval.se.mediaone.net [24.129.0.67]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA05100 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:09:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default.se.mediaone.net (tamw74-177.pompano.net [24.129.74.177]) by duval.se.mediaone.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id UAA07573; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:09:19 -0400 (EDT) From: "Andy Oppenheim" To: "trudi p" , "suzanne" , "Rhonda Bucki" , "nancy wright" , "N. Frances Rodgers" , "mens costumes" , "lora" , "liah" , "Kevin" , "Ines Jimenez" , "H-Costume" , "Faeryrayne" , "dragon" , "doug" , "debi" , "costume list" , "bob wright" Subject: H-COST: great costume custom pattern site. Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:07:03 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01BF0B7F.5D3B9040" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Andy Oppenheim" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BF0B7F.5D3B9040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here it is http://www.panix.com/~aqn/tailoring/ http://www.panix.com/~aqn/tailoring/ ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BF0B7F.5D3B9040 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Here it is http://www.panix.com/~aqn/tailoring/ http://www.panix.com/~aqn/t= ailoring/

------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BF0B7F.5D3B9040-- _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 19:28:05 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25215 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:28:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA16941; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:41:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA09138 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:36:22 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.inreach.com (mail2.inreach.com [209.142.0.6]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA09132 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:36:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: from default (209-142-3-27.stk.inreach.net [209.142.3.27]) by smtp.inreach.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA14858 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:20:39 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <37F40127.D60E909B@inreach.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:32:39 -0700 From: Diana H Organization: Well, I wouldn't call it organized...... X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.01 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: H-Costume Subject: H-COST: FYI--cheap velveteen! X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Diana H Hey Fellow Costumers! I realize that this won't necessarily apply to all of us on the list, but I just stopped by my local Wal-Mart and picked up some decent 100% cotton velveteen for $4.74 a yard. At the store I was in in Rocklin, CA they had black, a medium green, a sky blue, and a medium purple--not the usually gross colors you can get on a bargain table. So.....If you need to stock up on velveteen (or like to capitolize on good fabric bargains like me :~>) , you might want to take a peek in your local Wal-Mart's fabric section and see what you find. Good luck! Diana :~> -- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "There are too many mediocre things in life to deal with.....Love shouldn't be one of them." --Ione Skye in "Dream for an Insomniac" _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 19:44:09 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25223 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:43:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA18782; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:56:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA12029 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:56:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from inet16.us.oracle.com (inet16.us.oracle.com [209.246.15.50]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA12015 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 18:56:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from usmail04 (usmail04.us.oracle.com [144.25.88.96]) by inet16.us.oracle.com (8.9.2/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA21520 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:56:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.oracle.com by usmail04 with ESMTP (SMI-8.6/37.9) id RAA04131; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 17:56:33 -0700 Message-ID: <37F406AC.7B3D5828@us.oracle.com> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:56:12 -0400 From: Elizabeth Jones Organization: Oracle Corporation X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: h-costume Subject: H-COST: Magdalen sleeves Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Elizabeth Jones >http://152.19.254.81/wm/paint/auth/weyden/magdalen.jpg > >Well, first off, the dress she's seen wearing is her underdress, over >which would have gone a fashionable gown (as is indicated by the fancy >embroidered/brocaded sleeve). --That isn't what I think I see. Her sleeve has a pin, which leads me to --believe that the sleeves are not part of a dress but, pinned on to make her --plain and sleeveless gown more fashionable. I believe the first set of comments is more accurate. This is a representation of (dare I say it?) a kirtle or underdress. Sorry, don't know the Flemish/French term as we have already discussed. The sleeves were pinned on to a short sleeved underdress, but would have shown under her overdress - houppelande, etc. I thinks it's a cool headpiece. Excessive, but cool! Liz Jones _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 20:35:48 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25284 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:35:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA25549; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:49:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA19726 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:48:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us (bchamber@bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us [199.173.91.81]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA19697 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 19:48:43 -0600 (MDT) Received: from localhost (bchamber@localhost) by bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us (8.9.3/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA04727 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:48:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:48:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Chamberlain X-Sender: bchamber@bookworm To: H-Costume@indra.com Subject: H-COST: Pre-Rev. clothing-correction/addition Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Chamberlain Yes, I meant mob cap not mop! Dyslexics of the world untie!!! If only spell check could read my mind :) For those of you who know the New York area-- I'm in Huntington which was settled in the early 1650's by the English. There was a fair bit of Dutch influence in the area so I wouldn't rule it out. From what I understand right now, the clothing will be made for a fairly specific (as in low turn around) set of women. If I am correct on that fact dresses could be made for specific people instead of really generic sm-md-lg, and one or two Dutch outfits in a group of English would be neither impossible nor wildly inaccurate. I just found out that it is the school teachers who bring classes to the program who have requested that the instructors be historically clothed. If I run into resistance I hope I can use that as ammunition - the teachers wouldn't want them misrepresenting history. As if I'm not about to frighten the women in this group with my over zealousness -- my mother tried to get me to show up at the Historical Society's prim and proper tea wearing my Bloomers. It would be SO much more fun than going to work but... Beth _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 21:05:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25353 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:05:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28458; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:19:50 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA24539 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:19:35 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA24533 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:19:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA15916 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:27:52 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA04791 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:27:05 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:27:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume Subject: Re: H-COST: Magdalen sleeves In-Reply-To: <37F406AC.7B3D5828@us.oracle.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Elizabeth Jones wrote: > >Well, first off, the dress she's seen wearing is her underdress, over > >which would have gone a fashionable gown (as is indicated by the fancy > >embroidered/brocaded sleeve). -- That isn't what I think I see. Her sleeve has a pin, which leads me to -- believe that the sleeves are not part of a dress but, pinned on to make -- her plain and sleeveless gown more fashionable. > I believe the first set of comments is more accurate. This is a > representation of (dare I say it?) a kirtle or underdress. Sorry, don't > know the Flemish/French term as we have already discussed. The sleeves > were pinned on to a short sleeved underdress, but would have shown under > her overdress - houppelande, etc. That was my assumption for a long time, no doubt because I read that explanation somewhere years ago. But after spending a lot of time studying 15th-century Flemish dress last year, I've been rethinking that idea. There's no doubt that the short-sleeved dress is an underdress, but once I started looking, I didn't see any pictures that jumped out at me as being examples of fancy false sleeves showing out from under the large sleeves of an overdress. In fact, most of the overdresses I saw contemporaneous with these short-sleeved underdresses had narrow sleeves, not wide ones that would show off a fancy undersleeve. That got me wondering whether the short-sleeved underdresses were developed specifically to be worn under the (relatively new) narrow-sleeved overdresses -- maybe to reduce warmth and bulk on the arm. That development would leave the problem, however, of what happens when you wear your underdress alone (which would have been done informally). Arms must be covered, and a chemise alone would be insufficient for modesty. The answer would be a false sleeve, to be worn to complete the outfit when the underdress is worn alone. The false sleeve would thus have been made specifically to dress up the underdress, not to show out from beneath an overdress. Before anyone misinterprets that: I'm not saying that false sleeves were never worn with wide-sleeved overdresses; there are occasional images that suggest a false sleeve. (For instance, the green dress in the month of May in the Tres Riches Heures has big blue fringed undersleeves that might be false, though that's from a slightly earlier period.) And I suppose there's no way of knowing whether these false sleeves would have been attached to a short-sleeved underdress or a long-sleeved one. For all I know false sleeves might even have been worn with narrower-sleeved overdresses, though the logic of doing this escapes me. After all, if you accept the premise that the short-sleeved underdresses existed specifically to be worn under the narrow-sleeved overgowns, then it wouldn't make much sense to turn around and make the short sleeve long again by adding a false extension. What I'd want to look for here, if I were chasing this down, is whether wide-sleeved overgowns were still being worn by the time the short-sleeved dresses appear (and in the same regions), and if so, if it looks like the sleeves visible under these wide-sleeved overgowns are real or false (for instance, do they match any visible underdress hem? are they plain or fancy?). I will not be chasing this down anytime soon, however, as my books are all boxed. (I seem to be writing that a lot these days, sigh.) --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 21:13:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA25382 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:13:37 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29177; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:27:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA25493 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:27:08 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA25486 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:27:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id UAA16101 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:35:26 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id VAA04995 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:34:39 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:34:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: H-Costume Subject: Re: H-COST: FYI--cheap velveteen! In-Reply-To: <37F40127.D60E909B@inreach.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Diana H wrote: > I realize that this won't necessarily apply to all of us on the list, > but I just stopped by my local Wal-Mart and picked up some decent 100% > cotton velveteen for $4.74 a yard. At the store I was in in Rocklin, CA > they had black, a medium green, a sky blue, and a medium purple--not the > usually gross colors you can get on a bargain table. I remember some animated discussions over the last few years on the composition of medieval and renaissance velvets, but I don't remember the consensus. I seem to recall that one common combination was silk/cotton, though I can't remember which was ground and which was pile. Does anyone know offhand whether cotton might have been used for both ground and pile? And can one of the weaving experts remind me of the technical difference between velvet and velveteen? I'm wondering how much of a stretch it would be to substitute one for the other -- not just in accuracy, but in the way the fabric behaves. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 22:02:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25486 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:02:32 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04415; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:13:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA02051 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:13:18 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.greatbasin.net (mail.greatbasin.net [207.228.35.39]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA02044 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:13:14 -0600 (MDT) Received: from danhome (rno-max6-11.gbis.net [207.228.61.139]) by mail.greatbasin.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA00594 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:13:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <00a001bf0bbb$29aa9be0$8b3de4cf@danhome> From: "Dan Fenwick" To: References: Subject: Re: H-COST: FYI--cheap velveteen! Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 20:14:58 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Dan Fenwick" > And can one of the weaving experts remind me of the technical difference > between velvet and velveteen? I'm wondering how much of a stretch it would > be to substitute one for the other -- not just in accuracy, but in the way > the fabric behaves. Most velvet is Rayon. It's very shiny and slippery. Velveteen is usually cotton. It's not shiny and it isn't slippery. I used it to make a doublet (late 16th century). It was easy to work with, cleans well in the washing machine and was relatively easy to work with. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 22:38:47 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA25537 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:38:47 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08692; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:52:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA06810 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:51:48 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from m8.boston.juno.com (m8.boston.juno.com [205.231.101.196]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA06796 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:51:46 -0600 (MDT) Received: (from cley@juno.com) by m8.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EMTLM533; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:50:13 EDT To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-Costume Least-favourite styles (WAS: H-COST: New FO) Message-ID: <19990930.192915.4783.1.cley@juno.com> References: X-Mailer: Juno 1.49 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,4-15 From: cynthia j ley Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:50:13 EDT Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: cynthia j ley Ugly clothes I can't stand--those damnable retro chunky heels that are about 6" too tall. Talk about something that looks totally disportionate and is dangerous too! >:( Arlys ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 23:05:20 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25560 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:05:20 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA11099; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:19:19 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA10589 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:18:46 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from smtp.interlog.com (root@smtp.interlog.com [207.34.202.37]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA10582 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:18:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from test (ip203-175.cc.interlog.com [207.34.203.175]) by smtp.interlog.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA27787 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:18:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19991001001755.009c5ab0@mail.interlog.com> X-Sender: dnunn@mail.interlog.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 1999 00:17:55 -0400 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Danielle Nunn Subject: Re: H-COST: FYI--cheap velveteen! In-Reply-To: References: <37F40127.D60E909B@inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Danielle Nunn Greetings, >I remember some animated discussions over the last few years on the >composition of medieval and renaissance velvets, but I don't remember >the consensus. I seem to recall that one common combination was >silk/cotton, though I can't remember which was ground and which was >pile. Does anyone know offhand whether cotton might have been used for >both ground and pile? I've been trying to document cotton velvet used in the Ottoman empire before 1600 but don't have any "official" dates for it yet. My initial impression from the little research I've done is, that it is certainly a strong possibility. Cheers, Danielle _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 23:37:02 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25585 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:37:00 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA13601; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:46:00 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA14244 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:45:49 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14239 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:45:47 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.144] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11WuZk-00000d-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:45:44 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:43:13 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: FYI--cheap velveteen! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991001001755.009c5ab0@mail.interlog.com> References: <37F40127.D60E909B@inreach.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 12:17 AM 10/01/1999, Danielle Nunn wrote: >I've been trying to document cotton velvet used in the Ottoman empire >before 1600 but don't have any "official" dates for it yet. My initial >impression from the little research I've done is, that it is certainly a >strong possibility. If you find that documentation, please share it! Good fortune attend your search. Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Thu Sep 30 23:44:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA25591 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:44:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA14898; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:58:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA15614 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:57:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mail.nightowl.net (mail.nightowl.net [207.124.43.1]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA15590 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:57:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from shell.nightowl.net (robin@shell.nightowl.net [207.124.43.8]) by mail.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id XAA19231 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:06:14 -0500 Received: from localhost (robin@localhost) by shell.nightowl.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA09151 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:05:27 -0500 Date: Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:05:27 -0500 (CDT) From: Robin Netherton To: h-costume@indra.com Subject: Re: H-COST: FYI--cheap velveteen! In-Reply-To: <00a001bf0bbb$29aa9be0$8b3de4cf@danhome> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Robin Netherton On Thu, 30 Sep 1999, Dan Fenwick wrote: > > And can one of the weaving experts remind me of the technical difference > > between velvet and velveteen? I'm wondering how much of a stretch it would > > be to substitute one for the other -- not just in accuracy, but in the way > > the fabric behaves. > > Most velvet is Rayon. It's very shiny and slippery. > > Velveteen is usually cotton. It's not shiny and it isn't slippery. I used > it to make a doublet (late 16th century). It was easy to work with, cleans > well in the washing machine and was relatively easy to work with. Actually, I was wondering about the fibers used in the middle ages and renaissance. I'm certain that velvet then wasn't rayon ;-) As to differences in weave, my concern is that I don't want to just rely on looks in choosing a modern equivalent of a historic fabric. Replicating the hang and stretch is vital for my work. So, if I found a modern cotten velveteen that looked like a medieval velvet, would it behave differently because of some difference in the woven structure? I got curious enough to go hunt this up in the archives -- I had to plow through a ton of posts (this list sure uses the word "velveteen" a lot!). The list spent a large chunk of 1998 talking about the differences between velvet (which forms the pile from the warp) and velveteen (which forms the pile from the weft). Also, someone pointed out that cotton was generally not strong enough to be a warp thread in the middle ages, so velvets were more likely to have silk or wool pile; a cotton-pile fabric would most likely have been velveteen, because the cotton would have been used for the weft. (I hope I have that right.) I suppose a cotton weft could have formed part of the ground of a silk velvet, though. Conclusion: Velveteen was a medieval weave, too. (I still haven't tracked down when it started being used popularly for clothing rather than just bed hangings and the like.) Finding this much took me about an hour of searching, but it was a very interesting hour, though I really should have been working. If anyone else wants to catch up, the meatiest bits were in July 1998. And I'd like to give public thanks to Eric Praetzel for setting up the searchable archives at . An invaluable resource. --Robin _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 00:00:52 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25599 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:00:51 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16323; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:14:51 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA17615 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:14:41 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from sd.znet.com (sd.znet.com [207.167.64.5]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17606 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:14:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.167.66.85] (sdts10-85.znet.net [207.167.66.85]) by sd.znet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/jjb-sd) with ESMTP id WAA04478 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:14:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Envelope-From: savaskan@sd.znet.com X-Envelope-To: Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <00a001bf0bbb$29aa9be0$8b3de4cf@danhome> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:07:28 -0800 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Julie Adams Subject: Re: H-COST: FYI--cheap velveteen! Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Julie Adams >-Poster: "Dan Fenwick" >Most velvet is Rayon. It's very shiny and slippery. Velvets also come in a cotton/rayon (like Matinee' velvet), 100% cotton and wool. It is a different weave than velveteen as was described awhile ago. >Velveteen is usually cotton. It's not shiny and it isn't slippery. I used >it to make a doublet (late 16th century). It was easy to work with, cleans >well in the washing machine and was relatively easy to work with. Velveteen usually has a different type of pile and it is pressed into a directional nap. Some velvets have no nap. Velvets can be pressed directional too. IMHO, matinee' and 100% velvets are better representations of period velvets, but velveteens aren't bad. All seem better than the thin pile seen on most rayon and modern silk velvets to me. Julie Adams _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 00:12:30 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25630 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:12:29 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA17370; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:26:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA19026 for h-costume-outgoing; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:26:05 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA19018 for ; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:26:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [207.171.230.144] (helo=default) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11WvCi-0003Fu-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:26:00 -0700 X-Sender: cjcannon@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 22:23:25 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" Subject: Re: H-COST: The Ball has Begun In-Reply-To: <19990930175910.ELBD14188.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@[24.9.58.36 ]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-Id: Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: "Carol J. Bell Cannon" At 11:03 AM 09/30/1999, "R.L. Shep" wrote: Anyone else having trouble with this URL? I am. I clicked on the coach and it didn't go anywhere...and Netscape won't page through, either. :-( Carol _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 02:44:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22044 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:44:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23638; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:58:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA04089 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:58:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04081 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:58:03 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.185] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11WxZn-0006Dm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:58:00 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924101620.00bfe180@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:18:37 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: impropper attire In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows my mother tried to get me to show up at the Historical >Society's prim and proper tea wearing my Bloomers. A friend of mine made a carefully researched 1870's bathing costume just so she could 'streak' Living History Days in it. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 02:44:37 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22051 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:44:36 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23621; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:58:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA04031 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:57:54 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04024 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:57:53 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.185] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11WxZe-0006Dm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:57:51 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924093853.00bf18b0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:40:06 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Washing fur... In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >My father's girlfriend has 6 or 7 fur coats and she cleans them with >cornstarch...like you would a hamster, you can't get the hamsters wet ( or >aren't supposed to) so you rub them in the cornstarch and it takes the oil >and dirt etc off them, This is the method used for cleaning feathers and ostrich plumes. Except that you put those in a plastic bag full of the cornstarch - not recommended for hamsters. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 02:44:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22056 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:44:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23610; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:58:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA04077 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:58:02 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04072 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:58:01 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.185] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11WxZm-0006Dm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:57:58 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924095126.00bf3c70@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:52:09 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Washing fur... In-Reply-To: <199909301424.HAA24183@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows I've had good luck with putting >it in a big plastic trash bag with a box of cornmeal, shaking vigorously, >and letting it sit for a day. Do you mean cornmeal, or cornstarch? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 02:44:38 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22058 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:44:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23622; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:58:35 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA04053 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:57:59 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04046 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:57:58 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.185] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11WxZj-0006Dm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:57:55 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924094731.00befe00@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:22:31 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: Re: H-Costume Least-favourite styles In-Reply-To: <59B144F596A@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> References: <199909300120.TAA18511@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Anyone else have any periods/styles they just *can't stand*? The worst has got to be house dresses from about 1914 to 1925 - talk about dowdy... My favourite silly periods are: -The late 1820's - early 1830's, because of the general overdone-ness. I want one almost enough to actually make one, complete with all the compulsive hand-sewn details. -1922 doing Georgian, dropped waist and all. I got a real one of these from a friend's mother who got it from the San Francisco Opera. It's made of silver-threaded pale blue silk sari fabric and has pleated organza sleeve ruffles. If I were skinny I'd make one of these too. (I have a doll from this period who is doing 1922-waist-Elizabethan, and it's pretty funny.) The illustrations in "The Real Mother Goose are similarly silly, but they're a little earlier. -Multi-coloured platform shoes from the 70's, the uglier the better. I used to own a truly egregious example of these, but the got lost. Modern retro-look ones just don't have what it takes here. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 02:44:39 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22061 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:44:38 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23652; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:58:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA04064 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:58:01 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04057 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:57:59 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.185] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11WxZl-0006Dm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:57:57 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924094905.00bf2e60@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:50:27 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: H-COST: Cavalier visual weight gain In-Reply-To: References: <59B144F596A@mdx-ref1.nw.mdx.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I don't like the Cavalier look much either; it's the only style I've seen >that can make a woman gain 20 visual pounds just by putting it on. Funny - on my they take off about 20 pounds. 200 - 20 = not too bad. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 02:44:40 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22067 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:44:39 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23605; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:58:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA04044 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:57:57 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04036 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:57:56 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.185] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11WxZh-0006Dm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:57:54 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924094252.00bf4130@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:43:39 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Recycling In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Still, last time I found a smocking pleater for $8! They had no idea what >it was. It has all its bits, though a couple tiny round things could stand >replacing; should be pretty easy. > >Now I need to figure out what to do with it..! Make Renaissance shirt necks, male or female. (I'm so jealous) Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 02:44:36 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22045 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:44:35 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA23651; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:58:37 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA04026 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:57:53 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA04017 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 01:57:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.185] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11WxZc-0006Dm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:57:49 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924093620.00bef590@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:37:55 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Washing fur... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19990929171351.007aec50@antir.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >I actually want to use it to line a german ren 'partlet', Period Germans called this thing a 'gollar'. It's really great for keeping your uncovered bits warm around the neckline of the early German Ren. dresses. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 02:52:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22077 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:52:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25504; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:06:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA04931 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:06:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04926 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:06:09 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.185] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11WxZq-0006Dm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:58:02 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924102423.00bf6c30@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:25:44 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: FYI--cheap velveteen! In-Reply-To: References: <00a001bf0bbb$29aa9be0$8b3de4cf@danhome> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Velvets also come in a cotton/rayon (like Matinee' velvet), 100% cotton and >wool. Wool velvet is called plush, and is available thru teddy bear making supply houses. It's seriously expensive. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 02:52:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22080 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:52:03 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25509; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:06:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA04939 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:06:12 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04933 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:06:11 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.185] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11WxZs-0006Dm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:58:05 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924103243.00bf0300@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:34:00 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: RE: H-COST: Re: cauls In-Reply-To: <000101bf0a12$87882980$cf0bfdd0@sharp-9070-> References: <19990927.094211.-550295.0.seamstrix@juno.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Instructions for netting hairnets in the 1838 Workwoman's >Guide talk about threading a ribbon through the outer edge >of the netted hairnet as the finishing step. I think the >crocheted snood may be a 20th century thing, maybe even >1970's, but that's just a guess on my part. You can do the same with a doily from a thrift store. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 02:52:04 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22081 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:52:04 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25512; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:06:17 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA04948 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:06:14 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04941 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:06:13 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.185] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11WxZu-0006Dm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:58:06 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924103523.00a156e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:37:07 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Re:recycling favorite In-Reply-To: <4.1.19990924083939.00bcc280@pop.slip.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Also >in that day's haul were three sterling silver Harvey (something - named >after the tourist store) bracelets from like the 1930's, also @$5. each. I think the name given that kind of bracelet is Fred Harvey, but I haven't been to the Grand Canyon lately to check. They're a flat strip of silver with stamped designs in them, allegedly telling a story. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Fri Oct 1 02:52:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22089 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:52:05 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA25544; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:06:20 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA04976 for h-costume-outgoing; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:06:17 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA04969 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 02:06:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.185] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11WxZr-0006Dm-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Fri, 1 Oct 1999 00:58:03 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924102649.00be0ba0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:31:22 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: 16thCen bodices not matching skirts... In-Reply-To: <199909301619.JAA04546@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows There's a partial picture in Davenport's book on page 438. Davenport calls it 'A Horsleydown Wedding'. There's another picture, full colour, in my Anne Boleyn book which, of course, I can't find now. (That one's a two page spread with plenty of detail visible.) Margo Anderson writes, in a message sent 09:19 A 09/30/99 -0700: > >-Poster: Margo Anderson > > >> >>There are a couple of mismatched bodices and skirts on the figures >>in the "Fete at Bermondsey" by Joris Hoefnagel... (I think I've heard >>it referred to as the "Wedding at Bermondsey too?) > >Okay, I've been hearing about this painting for years, and I've never >mananged to locate a copy. It's not on the Web. Can anyone tell me the >title of a book in which I can find a decent copy, hopefully one which I can >get from ILL? > >Failing that, Teddy, do you recall a price on that poster version? I assume >it's not available in the US, but perhaps we could work something out? > > >Margo Anderson > >"One Tough Costumer" >http://www.directcon.net/wander/main.htm > > _________________________________________________________________ > To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com > with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 04:20:22 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20926 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:20:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA04636; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA00790 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:34:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA00640 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:34:27 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.131] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11YQzG-0002fC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 02:34:22 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924114059.00bd7e40@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:42:05 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Cavalier visual weight gain In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > >I don't like the Cavalier look much either; it's the only style I've seen > >that can make a woman gain 20 visual pounds just by putting it on. > > Funny - on my they take off about 20 pounds. 200 - 20 = not too bad. > >> > >LOL...good one. > >Like the 1830-40s comment, I just don't get it. Fay Dunnaway doesn't look fat >in "3 Musketeers"....and the camera is supposed to add 20 lb.! Yes, but Geraldine Chaplin looked absolutely upholstered! Large bones vs. small ones. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 04:20:55 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20930 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:20:54 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA04639; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:36:18 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA00861 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:34:30 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA00789 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:34:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.131] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11YQzJ-0002fC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 02:34:25 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924114300.00bf46e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:06:40 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk - Elizabethan In-Reply-To: <003a01bf0c30$53c5d1e0$7233aec7@oemcomputer> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >It's made >>of silver-threaded pale blue silk sari silk > >Here's an question: > >Could you use sari silk as a part of Elizabethan or Tudor? Sari-weight silk has to be lightweight to hang right. It's really scarfy and floaty, altho there is a 5" wide cotton facing at the hem (modern) to make the pleats behave. Elizabethan or Tudor silks were stiffer than that. IF you got appropriately patterned silk, and IF you lined the bejeebers out of it to make sure it was stiff enough, you'd probably end up with the right look. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 04:37:16 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20936 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:37:15 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA05851; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:53:16 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA26523 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:51:32 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26517 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:51:30 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.131] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11YQzV-0002fC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 02:34:37 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924123449.00bd2bf0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:36:15 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: improper attire In-Reply-To: <000101bf0c35$b6a4d900$6b037a86@phoenix.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >Kayta> A friend of mine made a carefully researched 1870's bathing costume >just so >she could 'streak' Living History Days in it. > >Thanks Kayta, glad you liked it! >--cin >Cynthia Barnes Oops - Two friends of mine made carefully researched etc. They tried to talk me into it, but I'm shy. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 04:40:21 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20946 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:40:21 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA06048; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:56:23 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA26733 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:54:37 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26728 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:54:36 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.131] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11YQzO-0002fC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 02:34:30 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924120721.00bf47e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:11:11 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Silk brocade In-Reply-To: <0b6a01bf0c66$825b9220$8cae30d0@com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >All this talk about silk brocades got me to thinking; how about Chinese silk >brocades? I'm wondering if the patterns can be justified for Elizabethan. >How much trade was coming in? I have some heavy black with silver filigree >and gold crythamums on it...I can scan some, if you need a picture. Not for Elizabethan. The patterns just aren't right, tho the weight is much better than sari silk is. I used some dragon patterned silk for a guy's Regency vest, but I felt even that was pushing it (the guy likes Oriental dragons, and loved the vest...). Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 04:40:56 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20950 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:40:56 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA06117; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:56:52 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA26774 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:55:11 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26766 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:55:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.131] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11YQzP-0002fC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 02:34:32 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924121313.00bd2870@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:15:14 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk - obis In-Reply-To: <37F576F1.9C743531@worldnet.att.net> References: <199910011810.LAA04226@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows >For good heavy silk brocades, though, i think I'd be inclined to look >for Japanese kimono silk or obi. Weight - yes. Pattern - I don't think so. I've never seen a patterned obi that looked like Elizabethan brocade, tho I've seen some drop-dead gorgeous obis. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 04:43:26 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20954 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:43:26 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA06326; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:58:55 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA26960 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:57:13 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA26954 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 03:57:12 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.131] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11YQzM-0002fC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 02:34:28 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924120030.00bd6b90@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:06:12 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: "sari silk" - take world by storm In-Reply-To: <199910012358.TAA09810@hurontario.net> References: <199910012025.OAA16997@net.indra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows "Sari silk" and dupionni silk seem to have taken the >world by storm in the last few years, It's Halloween, so I have been hitting the local thrift stores pretty hard. Slim pickings this year, but I got a thin cotton batik sari, complete with border and palu (=the decorated end to throw over the shoulder) for $2. Seems the Saver's chain of thrifts (SF Bay area) think saris are just 6 yards of cloth, price them accordingly, and throw them in the bins with the rest of the cloth. I also found an all white sari, with detached floats at regular intervals, which ought to do nicely for English Regency, border and all. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 04:46:10 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20958 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:46:10 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06569; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:02:15 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA27364 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:00:29 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA27359 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:00:28 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.131] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11YQzK-0002fC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 02:34:27 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924115204.00bf4c60@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:07:05 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Sari Silk - separate sari trim In-Reply-To: <199910011810.LAA04226@apollo.directcon.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows > Elizabethan brocades seem to have been allover patterns, not borders. the >borders on skirts, etc, were usually separately embroidered guards. > >You could probably make sari fabric look good for Elizabethan if you chose >it well and cut judiciously, but I wouldn't use it as is, say, using the >brocaded border as the hem of a skirt. I think it would just look too much >like a sari. Some sari stores have separate gold-threaded trim, available only in like 9-yard hunks. Sometimes these border trims show up in trim places for more per yard than the sari stores sell it for, but they will cut to length where the sari stores won't. Anyway, a few of these trims have appropriate patterns for Ren. use. Use these and knock 'em dead with real gold (real gold plate over copper wire). Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 04:49:58 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20962 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:49:58 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06708; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:05:48 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA27666 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:04:06 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA27661 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:04:05 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.131] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11YQzR-0002fC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 02:34:34 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924122825.00bf82e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:29:17 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: Catherine of Aragon In-Reply-To: <000b01bf0ebb$9fac36c0$b944fea9@gunsafes> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Michelle writes, in a message sent 03:55 P 10/04/99 -0700: > > Does anyone have any idea what the white trim? is on her shoulders? It > almost looks like her corset shows through her armhole but after closer > inspection the paler fabric appears to be sewn on top. Since it is > undecorated and looks to be a lesser cost weave, I am very confused as to > what it's purpose is. We went thru this on this list a while ago. I thought it was a train hanger, and other people thought it was something else. Check in the archives for this thread. Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME From owner-h-costume@indra.com Tue Oct 5 04:50:06 1999 Return-Path: Received: from server.indra.com (server.indra.com [204.144.142.2]) by sca.uwaterloo.ca (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA20968 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:50:06 -0400 Received: from net.indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1]) by server.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA06762; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:06:06 -0600 (MDT) Received: by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA27697 for h-costume-outgoing; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:04:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: net.indra.com: majordom set sender to owner-h-costume using -f Received: from mongoose.slip.net (mongoose.slip.net [207.171.193.14]) by net.indra.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA27690 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 04:04:24 -0600 (MDT) Received: from [209.152.144.131] (helo=George) by mongoose.slip.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #4) id 11YQzT-0002fC-00 for h-costume@indra.com; Tue, 5 Oct 1999 02:34:36 -0700 Message-Id: <4.1.19990924123037.0092f1e0@pop.slip.net> X-Sender: kayta@pop.slip.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 12:32:25 -0700 To: h-costume@indra.com From: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Subject: Re: H-COST: FYI--cheap velveteen! In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19990924102423.00bf6c30@pop.slip.net> <00a001bf0bbb$29aa9be0$8b3de4cf@danhome> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-h-costume@indra.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: h-costume@indra.com Status: RO -Poster: Carolyn Kayta Barrows Julie Adams writes, in a message sent 09:18 P 10/01/99 -0800: > >-Poster: Julie Adams > >>Wool velvet is called plush, and is available thru teddy bear making supply >>houses. It's seriously expensive. > >Cool! I got mine years ago at an apholstery shop in Santa Ana, CA. It was >made for auto apholstery I think. It is VERY thick and has 30% cashmere and >less than 1% of some synthetic (which is applied as a backing), but doesn't >look very teddybearish, so perhaps its a bit different. It makes GREAT >armor though... The nap is so full that I had to handsew all the banding >because it would just slip one way or the other. I called all over Orange >County CA to find it. It was about $32 at the time (12 yrs ago or so) but I >lucked out and found part of it as a 75% off remnant. I made my husband an >SCA fighting waffenrock and he still wears it. Overall it still looks ok, >but the velveteen banding has worn its nap away in places. The wool that >goes under his breastplate has been patched, but the skirt itself still >looks pretty good. Keep the holes. Nothing makes a garment look more like clothes and less like a costume than wear. BTW, were the period Germans using wool velvet? I know the Italians were weaving velvet by this time - did they do it in wool? Kayta ////.\\\ ////-@@\\\ (((( 7 ((( | -- )))) * ) ((((( /----\ /---\ _________________________________________________________________ To leave this mailing list, send mail to majordomo@indra.com with the message UNSUBSCRIBE H-COSTUME